Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Sarah Jakes Roberts Talks 'Power Moves,' Early Motherhood, Removing Wig During Preach, Church + More

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INTERVIEW: Sarah Jakes Roberts Talks 'Power Moves,' Early Motherhood, Removing Wig During Preach, Church + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
0:05
Speaker 2: Everybody's theej Envy, Jess, Hilary Charlamine, the guy. We are
0:09
Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
0:11
Speaker 2: Come on now, we have Sarah Jake Roberts.
0:13
Speaker 1: Welcome. How are you feeling.
0:15
Speaker 3: I feel good. I'm a little tired, but I'm glad
0:17
Speaker 3: to be here.
0:18
Speaker 1: Okay, you always dressed it in nice.
0:21
Speaker 3: You gotta starts, I do, okay.
0:23
Speaker 4: Jason Bowling, Yeah, we've been working together for almost ten years.
0:26
Speaker 5: Okay, I thought you was just praying and putting it
0:27
Speaker 5: together yourself. But the new book, Power Moves ignite your
0:34
Speaker 5: confidence and become a force.
0:36
Speaker 1: Where did the inspiration for the book come from?
0:38
Speaker 3: It really started about five years ago.
0:40
Speaker 4: Whenever I had finished speaking, people would always tell me like,
0:43
Speaker 4: that was so powerful, You're so powerful. But I didn't
0:45
Speaker 4: really feel powerful, like I'd be in the fight of
0:47
Speaker 4: my life up there. And I started just asking God, like,
0:51
Speaker 4: what does it mean to truly be powerful? And I
0:53
Speaker 4: feel like God just revealed to me that it has
0:55
Speaker 4: so much to do with obedience and authenticity, but not
0:58
Speaker 4: only that, that power is a flow and so what
1:01
Speaker 4: makes me powerful when I'm preaching is different than what
1:03
Speaker 4: makes me powerful as a mother. So I started digging
1:06
Speaker 4: into the fluidity of power and this notion that power
1:09
Speaker 4: moves and embracing that from season to season really started
1:13
Speaker 4: resonating with me.
1:14
Speaker 1: I saw you preaching yesterday and you said something to
1:16
Speaker 1: the extent of.
1:18
Speaker 5: Being in control is not power. Control is not power. Yeah,
1:22
Speaker 5: what does that mean?
1:23
Speaker 4: Okay, So whenever we lose our sense of safety, I
1:26
Speaker 4: think our initial response is to try and control as
1:29
Speaker 4: much as we can after that, instead of really surrendering
1:32
Speaker 4: to whatever the moment is trying to teach us and
1:34
Speaker 4: discovering the power, the wisdom, the lessons, and that we
1:38
Speaker 4: control it. And as a result of that, we end
1:40
Speaker 4: up closing ourselves out, not just from whatever God's trying
1:43
Speaker 4: to teach us in the moment, but sometimes dynamic relationships
1:46
Speaker 4: that can be helpful to us. And so balancing this
1:49
Speaker 4: idea of vulnerability and openness so that power can flow
1:53
Speaker 4: through us I think should be the goal of anyone
1:55
Speaker 4: who really wants to affect change in the world.
1:58
Speaker 2: I do have a ques this is going to say stupid,
2:00
Speaker 2: but I just want people to understand, you know where
2:02
Speaker 2: you came from and how you got into faith. I
2:05
Speaker 2: know you were here last time. So for people that
2:07
Speaker 2: said it, so for people that don't know that, they
2:13
Speaker 2: automatically assume that your dad was in it into religion,
2:17
Speaker 2: that's what got you into it. But you had a
2:19
Speaker 2: different start with you. So let's talk about that a
2:21
Speaker 2: little bit first. How did you start and how did
2:23
Speaker 2: you get to where you're at now? And the fact
2:25
Speaker 2: that you had your first child at fourteen and let's
2:28
Speaker 2: let's break that all down.
2:29
Speaker 3: And he's in the studio.
2:36
Speaker 4: Don't give him that much gas.
2:38
Speaker 3: That's a child over there.
2:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, So my dad has been in ministry my whole
2:44
Speaker 4: life and growing up when I was growing up in church,
2:46
Speaker 4: like we were at church every single day of the week,
2:49
Speaker 4: and you either found a spot, you were in the choir,
2:52
Speaker 4: you were dancing, you were doing something, or you were
2:54
Speaker 4: like me and you were sitting in the corner somewhere.
2:56
Speaker 4: And I can remember my siblings telling me, like, you
2:58
Speaker 4: gonna go to hell, like you can shot, you can't clap,
3:01
Speaker 4: like you gonna go to hell. And I was like,
3:04
Speaker 4: you might be right, because what I'm listening to on
3:07
Speaker 4: the radio, like what's resonating with me, it doesn't align
3:10
Speaker 4: with what's being preached, and so I never really felt
3:12
Speaker 4: like I had a sense of belonging within faith. And
3:15
Speaker 4: then when my father's ministry kind of took off, I
3:18
Speaker 4: didn't know where I fit within the dynamic of our
3:21
Speaker 4: family at all. And so I tried to find myself
3:24
Speaker 4: at thirteen year old, trying to find herself is gonna
3:26
Speaker 4: be open to anything, and so I got pregnant at thirteen.
3:30
Speaker 4: I had my son at fourteen, which just further confirmed
3:32
Speaker 4: to me, like, you not wanted the good girls. And
3:35
Speaker 4: so I spent probably ten years of my life just
3:38
Speaker 4: being like, all right, faith isn't for me, you guys,
3:40
Speaker 4: not for me. I'm gonna figure out what's happening outside.
3:43
Speaker 4: And I got to this space after this traumatic experience
3:47
Speaker 4: in my first marriage where I almost got arrested and
3:51
Speaker 4: I was defending the right to keep my kids, and
3:53
Speaker 4: I was like, I have tried literally everything, I might
3:57
Speaker 4: as well just try faith. And I wasn't trying to
3:59
Speaker 4: build platform. I was trying to build myself. And I
4:02
Speaker 4: started blogging about all of my experiences, and it turns
4:05
Speaker 4: out that there were like other women who felt maybe
4:08
Speaker 4: forgotten by church, felt like because they didn't.
4:10
Speaker 2: Did you feel that way, like, especially because your dad
4:12
Speaker 2: was in ministry, did you feel like his church forgot
4:15
Speaker 2: about you, especially that being your dad.
4:17
Speaker 4: And it's hard, like knowing what I know now, it's
4:20
Speaker 4: hard to say because I felt so much shame from
4:23
Speaker 4: having a teen pregnancy that I'm sure that there were
4:26
Speaker 4: people who were like still loving on me, but I
4:28
Speaker 4: couldn't cut through the idea of like during purity culture,
4:31
Speaker 4: the height of purity culture, you didn't got pregnant like this.
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Speaker 4: It just doesn't align. And I don't know, because even
4:36
Speaker 4: my father is surprised that my life has turned in
4:39
Speaker 4: this direction. So I'm not sure if anyone thought that
4:40
Speaker 4: I was going to be the girl talking about Jesus.
4:43
Speaker 4: But I tried it for myself and I started sharing
4:47
Speaker 4: it with like these other misfits, and it turns out
4:49
Speaker 4: there were a lot of us, like back Row churchgoers
4:52
Speaker 4: who were there because we had to be but didn't
4:54
Speaker 4: fit in. And I was able to give them a
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Speaker 4: voice and a language through trying to find my own
5:00
Speaker 4: voice in language, and it's resonated with them.
5:02
Speaker 1: What level of ratchet were you on a scale? It like, well, well.
5:09
Speaker 4: At the end of the day. The day's got to end.
5:14
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't I don't even know how
5:16
Speaker 4: to answer that question. But I mean I was not
5:20
Speaker 4: I was not outside, like I was not trying to
5:23
Speaker 4: be the good girl at all. Like I embraced this
5:26
Speaker 4: idea of like you can just do your own thing
5:28
Speaker 4: and try anything. So I mean I did quite a
5:31
Speaker 4: few things.
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Speaker 5: It's interesting to hear you say the bishop was surprised
5:34
Speaker 5: to see how things turned out, because I'm sure him
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Speaker 5: and you know the first lady was praying over you
5:38
Speaker 5: and asking God to turn you around.
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Speaker 4: Makes sense, yeah, But I mean I have always been
5:46
Speaker 4: very strong willed. I've always been my own person, and
5:48
Speaker 4: so I think that they were praying. But just like
5:50
Speaker 4: we praying, we like, I don't know if youre gonna
5:52
Speaker 4: answer this prayer. We'll see how it happens. I don't
5:54
Speaker 4: think that they were for sure knowing that things were
5:57
Speaker 4: absolutely going to turn around. Even if they did turn around,
5:59
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone anticipates, like, oh, she's going to
6:01
Speaker 4: be in ministry, because that's not necessarily a turn around,
6:04
Speaker 4: like maybe she'll figure out who God is, but this
6:06
Speaker 4: fact that she's also going to be a ministry in
6:08
Speaker 4: helping others.
6:09
Speaker 3: That was a wild card. Nobody's all coming.
6:12
Speaker 2: I do have a question, and this is something that
6:14
Speaker 2: we talk about a lot of pearing. Me and my
6:15
Speaker 2: wife been arguing about this, well now arguing by having
6:17
Speaker 2: a conversation about this. I feel sometimes when, especially when
6:21
Speaker 2: people play with the church right, and I'll tell you
6:23
Speaker 2: why I say play with the church, they come off
6:25
Speaker 2: like a very church holier than that.
6:27
Speaker 1: Right.
6:27
Speaker 2: So when they speak a lot of people actually believe
6:30
Speaker 2: it and listen because they feel like they study, they
6:32
Speaker 2: go through it, they read the Bible, et cetera, et cetera,
6:34
Speaker 2: et cetera. But also you realize that person is not
6:36
Speaker 2: a good person. So where do you cross the lines
6:39
Speaker 2: of somebody I would say, taking on an assignment doing
6:44
Speaker 2: something positive. I think you spoke about it earlier, somebody
6:46
Speaker 2: giving a message opposed to who they are as a person.
6:49
Speaker 2: Like can somebody give a message and be an fed
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Speaker 2: up person?
6:52
Speaker 3: Yeah?
6:52
Speaker 4: I mean a broken clock? It's right twice today, you
6:54
Speaker 4: know what I mean? You don't even have to be
6:55
Speaker 4: a Christian to say something that could be profound and deep.
6:58
Speaker 4: But that doesn't change the fact that you have an
7:01
Speaker 4: opportunity to be more fully integrated in your character. But
7:05
Speaker 4: I think that the message is that resonate the most
7:07
Speaker 4: are from people who are literally walking it out, living
7:10
Speaker 4: it out, and so it does discredit the message sometimes
7:13
Speaker 4: when you're telling me something that you don't live by.
7:15
Speaker 4: But I think about it like this. So I'm a parent,
7:18
Speaker 4: and now that my children are moving into adulthood, I
7:20
Speaker 4: recognize that many of the things that we have told
7:23
Speaker 4: them growing up, they're also realizing that I am figuring
7:26
Speaker 4: it out with them as well. And I don't know
7:28
Speaker 4: that it's a lot different in ministry, like this is
7:30
Speaker 4: where the goal is. I think we all know where
7:32
Speaker 4: the goal is, but I'm still working it out too.
7:35
Speaker 4: I think where people get in trouble is that they're
7:37
Speaker 4: not actually doing the work, Like I'm telling you that
7:39
Speaker 4: this is the goal, and I'm doing the exact opposite
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Speaker 4: of it, which is why I've tried to be really
7:43
Speaker 4: intentional about being authentic. Like I'm going through depression, I'm
7:47
Speaker 4: going through an anxiety. This is what I'm learning in
7:49
Speaker 4: the midst of that. Because it doesn't serve me for
7:51
Speaker 4: me to come off as your God when we all
7:53
Speaker 4: need the same one. So I try to really make
7:55
Speaker 4: sure that I'm not on a pedestal.
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Speaker 3: I try to kick the pedestal down.
8:00
Speaker 2: Like like you see a preacher. A preacher will be preaching, right,
8:02
Speaker 2: and then he's cheating on his wife. Or preacher'll be
8:05
Speaker 2: preaching and then he's hitting his wife, you know what
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Speaker 2: I mean. So it's kind of it's like a blurred line.
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Speaker 4: Like that's not a blurred line though, that's I mean,
8:12
Speaker 4: that's not like that's wrong, that's wickedness, you know what
8:15
Speaker 4: I mean?
8:15
Speaker 2: Like that, how do you how do you you went
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Speaker 2: to the extreme just now, like cheating on his wife
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Speaker 2: or his wife. You see that a lot of time.
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Speaker 2: You see a preacher say I'm sorry, I chieved on
8:23
Speaker 2: my wife. You see that in the church sometimes none
8:25
Speaker 2: of my preachers, but you.
8:26
Speaker 1: Do see that.
8:27
Speaker 2: So when you see that, it's it's kind of difficult
8:29
Speaker 2: to uphold a preacher. And you'll be like, is this
8:32
Speaker 2: whole is bullshit? Or we just playing this game? Or
8:35
Speaker 2: do you really feel that way and really made a mistake.
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Speaker 2: You understand what I'm saying.
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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I can't judge someone's heart and I
8:40
Speaker 4: can't judge their experiences, So I'm a little hesitant to
8:44
Speaker 4: really make a judgment on situations.
8:45
Speaker 2: I'm not saying anybody in particular.
8:47
Speaker 4: If you know people, I don't. I don't know anyone
8:51
Speaker 4: either who's going through this, but I think people infer
8:53
Speaker 4: a lot. But I will say this, like, preachers are human.
8:58
Speaker 4: So if you are who you are, and you can
9:00
Speaker 4: cheat on your wife, and a preacher can cheat on
9:02
Speaker 4: his wife, like he's a man too, she's a woman too.
9:05
Speaker 4: And so you guys are still going to have the
9:07
Speaker 4: same areas of temptation that you need to overcome. I
9:10
Speaker 4: think your response to that, like, what is my response?
9:13
Speaker 4: How do I grow from here? How do I create boundaries?
9:16
Speaker 4: Do I need to sit down? Do I need to heal?
9:18
Speaker 6: Like?
9:18
Speaker 4: I think how you handle your humanity in the face
9:21
Speaker 4: of this divine call is what's most important. I am
9:25
Speaker 4: careful that pastors don't have a license to do whatever
9:28
Speaker 4: they want to because of the power they hold. I
9:31
Speaker 4: think that you can be human, but all of us
9:32
Speaker 4: need to be try and stretching, growing to be more
9:35
Speaker 4: like Jesus or we are up here playing. I'm not
9:38
Speaker 4: asking you to be perfect. I'm asking you to really
9:40
Speaker 4: be on this walk for real.
9:42
Speaker 5: Who's this white past that you talking about and does
9:46
Speaker 5: you listen to the breakfast Club?
9:50
Speaker 6: I want it because you're a mother of six and
9:55
Speaker 6: you're busy, extremely busy with your podcast and then writing
9:58
Speaker 6: a book and then traveling.
9:59
Speaker 2: How do you balance that?
10:00
Speaker 1: Like mother?
10:00
Speaker 6: And I know you said your children are growing into adulthood,
10:03
Speaker 6: but how do you balance that?
10:05
Speaker 3: Well?
10:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I feel for you because you got a
10:08
Speaker 4: lot going on. I think it's the message of this book.
10:11
Speaker 4: I think it's really allowing myself to like flow in
10:14
Speaker 4: a different definition of power based off of each of
10:17
Speaker 4: those roles. Because as much as I want to bring
10:19
Speaker 4: the same intensity to everything I do, if I do that,
10:22
Speaker 4: I may end up damaging my children because I'm talking
10:25
Speaker 4: to them like a business partner, and so really defining
10:28
Speaker 4: for myself what does it mean to be powerful in
10:30
Speaker 4: these specific roles and how much capacity do I have
10:34
Speaker 4: to show up in that space? Asking for help, you know,
10:37
Speaker 4: changing and modifying my life to really fit my priorities
10:41
Speaker 4: has done a lot. And then also just making sure
10:43
Speaker 4: my kids know, like I'm tired. So my daughter is eight.
10:46
Speaker 4: She was devastated when I left yesterday. She was like,
10:49
Speaker 4: please don't leave me. Literally, She's like, can you please
10:52
Speaker 4: come home. And I'm like, I just need this one
10:54
Speaker 4: week to get this book in as many hands as possible,
10:57
Speaker 4: and their mommy will be home. But I'm packing to her, now,
11:00
Speaker 4: you do this, well, I'm doing this, so she understands this.
11:03
Speaker 4: Sometimes absence does not mean that I don't care, and
11:07
Speaker 4: it's a balancing walk, especially I think if you have
11:10
Speaker 4: mom guilt like I do sometimes. But I also want
11:13
Speaker 4: her to see a woman walking in her purpose and
11:15
Speaker 4: being excited about it and changing lives. So I share
11:17
Speaker 4: testimonies with her too. I'm like, let's sit down and
11:19
Speaker 4: read these comments from this weekend. Thank you for being
11:22
Speaker 4: a part of this, so she feels a part of
11:23
Speaker 4: it as well.
11:24
Speaker 6: Okay, because mama's son is twelve now, but I miss
11:27
Speaker 6: like a lot of him, like a lot of him
11:32
Speaker 6: being going from grade to grade, you know, because my mom,
11:34
Speaker 6: Between my mom and his dad, that's who has I
11:37
Speaker 6: was touring a lot before I actually got to do this,
11:40
Speaker 6: and I just feel so guilty a lot sometimes, Like
11:44
Speaker 6: and now I have this new baby and I'm like,
11:45
Speaker 6: I'm bringing him up to Jersey with me, and he
11:48
Speaker 6: wants to grow up in the house with the baby
11:49
Speaker 6: instead of me.
11:50
Speaker 3: Being in Jersey with the new baby with.
11:53
Speaker 6: You know, and then him still being with my mother,
11:55
Speaker 6: like and I don't want to repeat that.
11:58
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that again.
11:59
Speaker 4: So so I had my son at fourteen, and I
12:02
Speaker 4: think one of the things that makes me feel most
12:04
Speaker 4: guilty is that I know that I was growing up
12:07
Speaker 4: while he was growing up, and so the way that
12:09
Speaker 4: I'm able to be present even for my younger kids,
12:12
Speaker 4: I know that he didn't have that.
12:14
Speaker 3: So I think, one, I don't know if you have to.
12:15
Speaker 4: Deal with this, but I had to really forgive myself
12:19
Speaker 4: for what I didn't know when I was raising him.
12:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I just I didn't know.
12:24
Speaker 4: I did the best that I could, and to trust
12:26
Speaker 4: that I still have opportunity. If you think about adult
12:29
Speaker 4: children who were wounded from relationships that didn't go well
12:32
Speaker 4: with their parents, there's still a little kid inside of
12:34
Speaker 4: them that wants their parents to show up, that wants
12:37
Speaker 4: to experience healing in that space. And so it reminds
12:40
Speaker 4: me too that I'm never out of time, So I'm
12:42
Speaker 4: constantly still reparenting him, even at twenty one years old.
12:47
Speaker 5: You know, in the clamp down chapter, you start by
12:50
Speaker 5: saying if you're one of those people who know better
12:52
Speaker 5: and instantly do better. I'm probably going to be the
12:54
Speaker 5: friend who you roll your eyes at constantly.
12:56
Speaker 1: Why are you that friend?
12:58
Speaker 4: Because things need to marinate from me, Like I don't
13:01
Speaker 4: just activate things like you could tell me, like you
13:03
Speaker 4: need to be vegan and I will. I'm gonna let
13:05
Speaker 4: that marinate for a year or two before that actually activates,
13:08
Speaker 4: because I don't do things just because someone says that
13:11
Speaker 4: I should do them. It has to be real. I
13:12
Speaker 4: have to have a conviction about it. But I will
13:15
Speaker 4: marinate it so I can figure out, like how does
13:17
Speaker 4: this revelation actually fit within the context of my life.
13:20
Speaker 4: So in the back of the books, each book has
13:22
Speaker 4: like something to marinate on, something to activate, and something
13:25
Speaker 4: to pray on. Because I know everyone moves into change differently.
13:28
Speaker 5: I love the marinating before activating, but I feel like
13:31
Speaker 5: that's probably how the majority of us moved. Is there
13:34
Speaker 5: ever a time we shouldn't marinate before activating? Like the
13:37
Speaker 5: spirit says, do it?
13:38
Speaker 1: We just go?
13:39
Speaker 4: I mean, to each his own. I think if you
13:42
Speaker 4: feel I'm not into telling folks what they should do,
13:46
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Like, I think if you
13:47
Speaker 4: feel like there's an a now on it. You should
13:49
Speaker 4: do that, you should move in it now, And a
13:52
Speaker 4: lot of times when we move in it now, we
13:53
Speaker 4: learn the marination lessons afterwards, you know.
13:56
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's what.
13:58
Speaker 1: About the spirit though?
13:59
Speaker 5: So just spirit says move like the spirit always tells
14:02
Speaker 5: you to be patient in marinate.
14:05
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm in relationship.
14:10
Speaker 1: On that.
14:10
Speaker 3: I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice.
14:15
Speaker 4: I didn't have a choy that, oh Lord, But yeah, no, no,
14:19
Speaker 4: I had I was in the spirit and that I
14:22
Speaker 4: had a mission to accomplish and I didn't want anything
14:24
Speaker 4: to distract me. And my husband wasn't there and my
14:26
Speaker 4: parents weren't there, so it wasn't like I was gonna
14:28
Speaker 4: be able toss the microphone. I was the you know,
14:30
Speaker 4: senior leadership person that was present in that room, and.
14:34
Speaker 3: So I had to take it off.
14:37
Speaker 4: I didn't love it, I didn't enjoy it, but I
14:39
Speaker 4: stood up to it, and uh, I think it was
14:43
Speaker 4: really interesting because I was going through something at that
14:45
Speaker 4: time where I was wondering could I be in Dallas
14:48
Speaker 4: a part of senior leadership, like with my past, with
14:51
Speaker 4: the way that I preached, with the way that I'm
14:53
Speaker 4: a little different than I guess traditional pastors. And I
14:56
Speaker 4: really did feel like God was trying to tell me, like,
14:58
Speaker 4: just be authentic, just trust yourself in that season of
15:01
Speaker 4: my life. And so that Sunday, when I'm sitting there
15:03
Speaker 4: with a wig cap on and then other women started
15:06
Speaker 4: taking their wigs off on the altar, I was like,
15:09
Speaker 4: you know what, I think this maybe God trying to
15:12
Speaker 4: tell me You're gonna have to show up as your
15:14
Speaker 4: full self in order to get this done. And I
15:16
Speaker 4: know a lot of people made fun of it, but
15:19
Speaker 4: there were so many people who were like, seeing you
15:21
Speaker 4: stand there being courageous stepping into that moment helped me
15:25
Speaker 4: so much to just embrace who I am. And so
15:27
Speaker 4: I really feel like God took something that would have
15:29
Speaker 4: been very embarrassing and at least allowed there to be
15:32
Speaker 4: a buffer from the people who were moved by that moment.
15:36
Speaker 5: For me, I was like, that's why we rock with her.
15:39
Speaker 5: You always wanting to be your true self at all times.
15:41
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, like, y'all know, this isn't my hair,
15:44
Speaker 4: and like, no, it's not ideal, but it's not more
15:46
Speaker 4: important than what I'm here for. So like I'm want
15:48
Speaker 4: to take it off and we're going to move on
15:50
Speaker 4: down the road. When I got back behind the platform
15:52
Speaker 4: that I was like, oh lord, I have desecrated the body.
15:55
Speaker 4: So I'm not there are bundles on the altar. I
15:59
Speaker 4: have just create it this place. But yeah, it just
16:02
Speaker 4: turns out it wasn't that way.
16:04
Speaker 5: I love about chapter sixteen to Know Your Harm. Oh yeah,
16:07
Speaker 5: what is knowing your heart?
16:09
Speaker 3: Well?
16:09
Speaker 4: I talk about the oath that doctors take where they say,
16:13
Speaker 4: you know that they'll do no harm, but they're also
16:15
Speaker 4: recognizing that they're practicing and when we move in power.
16:18
Speaker 4: Part of the reason why so many of us don't
16:20
Speaker 4: move in power is that we're afraid that we won't
16:22
Speaker 4: do it perfectly or that will make mistakes. But if
16:25
Speaker 4: we can embrace the reality that I'm going to be
16:27
Speaker 4: powerful and humble, I'm going to be wrong, I'm going
16:30
Speaker 4: to have to apologize. I'm going to mess up. I
16:32
Speaker 4: may say things too sharply. Then that doesn't make me
16:34
Speaker 4: any less powerful. As a matter of fact, it makes
16:36
Speaker 4: me more powerful because I recognize that my position of
16:39
Speaker 4: power could disrupt my relationships sometimes, but I value these
16:43
Speaker 4: relationships enough to learn how to be powerful in a
16:46
Speaker 4: way that honors the spaces that I'm in Next time.
16:50
Speaker 2: What's your thought on the way that church is now? Right,
16:52
Speaker 2: as a kid, you had to go to church every Sunday.
16:54
Speaker 2: You had to be in the building, you had to
16:56
Speaker 2: sit there, and if there was a baptism, you was
16:58
Speaker 2: gonna be there all day. Now a lot of people
17:01
Speaker 2: turn it on Sunday morning and it's a lot easiest.
17:04
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on people not actually attending the
17:06
Speaker 2: institution of church.
17:09
Speaker 4: First of all, y'all not about to tie tripping me. No,
17:14
Speaker 4: you don't, No, you don't be very clear.
17:18
Speaker 3: Let me see.
17:19
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that the world is changing, and
17:22
Speaker 4: as the world changes, I think people are finding things
17:25
Speaker 4: that are more convenient for them. And I do think
17:28
Speaker 4: that you are able to have intimate encounters with God
17:30
Speaker 4: from this comfort of your own home. And I think
17:32
Speaker 4: it's powerful that that's the way that things are being spread.
17:35
Speaker 4: I think it's like watching a football game at home,
17:38
Speaker 4: Like you can get hype, you can be excited for
17:40
Speaker 4: your team, but there is something about being in the
17:43
Speaker 4: room with other people that makes you just take things
17:47
Speaker 4: over the edge. I was surprised that in a world
17:49
Speaker 4: where people are n'c coming to church that we have
17:50
Speaker 4: forty thousand women at the woman Evolve conference, because I'm like,
17:53
Speaker 4: I don't know that this is a thing that people
17:55
Speaker 4: are going to really be into when they like virtual experiences,
17:58
Speaker 4: but there is something that happens in healthy community and
18:01
Speaker 4: connection that allows your faith to really be strengthened. I've
18:05
Speaker 4: had people come into rooms and like they didn't really
18:08
Speaker 4: want to be there, somebody drug them in there. They
18:09
Speaker 4: were going through a depression. They don't even know why
18:11
Speaker 4: they were there, but just being in the space, sitting
18:13
Speaker 4: next to someone who was able to care for them
18:16
Speaker 4: and just being surrounded by worship lifted their spirits when
18:18
Speaker 4: they couldn't lift their own hands. And I don't think
18:21
Speaker 4: that there's any substitute for that.
18:22
Speaker 1: Would you also keep it tight though one hour's.
18:26
Speaker 3: Let us think something I don't. Yeah, it's it's finished.
18:30
Speaker 3: He said it.
18:31
Speaker 4: Everything everything he said has been said to me, and
18:34
Speaker 4: so now we can go home and have brunch. Yeah.
18:37
Speaker 4: I do think we have to honor people's time because
18:39
Speaker 4: people do have options, and so being really intentional about
18:42
Speaker 4: making sure people feel like I can go get out
18:44
Speaker 4: and have the rest of my day is part of
18:46
Speaker 4: what we should really lean into.
18:49
Speaker 5: Is the church whack? That's a question, was the question.
18:55
Speaker 5: That's what I got smoked for. He said that he
18:57
Speaker 5: thinks the church has become whack.
18:59
Speaker 7: I think it's it's a system now on God. It's
19:02
Speaker 7: a system. Everything is a system, and systems work with
19:05
Speaker 7: or without God. So I think the institution of church
19:08
Speaker 7: is whack. I think how church is ran is whack.
19:12
Speaker 7: I think the religious system and structure is whack. I
19:16
Speaker 7: don't subscribe to it. Even though I grew up in it,
19:19
Speaker 7: I benefited from it, but I learned that God is
19:22
Speaker 7: not the church.
19:23
Speaker 4: I heard in context what he said made a lot
19:25
Speaker 4: more sense, but I heard the sound bite was trash.
19:29
Speaker 4: I think that everyone has a different experience of church,
19:32
Speaker 4: and I think that there are some people who have
19:34
Speaker 4: probably had an experience that has disheartened them in that way.
19:38
Speaker 4: But I love the church. I mean, as much as
19:42
Speaker 4: I went through my own church hurt and trauma, the
19:45
Speaker 4: church was also really beautiful to me in times where
19:48
Speaker 4: I didn't have anywhere to go and I could sit
19:51
Speaker 4: in that presence and experience God. And sometimes to really
19:54
Speaker 4: experience God in church, you have to look past the people.
19:57
Speaker 3: And maybe that's whack.
19:59
Speaker 4: Maybe it's not, because maybe it keeps our focus on
20:02
Speaker 4: what you really matter.
20:03
Speaker 5: I love what you said too about know your harm.
20:06
Speaker 5: You said, Deflecting from the way that you harm someone
20:09
Speaker 5: and highlighting the way that they harm instead is a
20:12
Speaker 5: sign of immaturity that keeps you from truly being helpful.
20:17
Speaker 1: Found on that well.
20:19
Speaker 4: A lot of times we will not embrace what we
20:21
Speaker 4: did to someone because of what they've done to us,
20:24
Speaker 4: and it keeps us from owning our stuff and growing
20:27
Speaker 4: and so being able to say, even though my teacher
20:29
Speaker 4: may not be perfect, like my teacher may have failed
20:32
Speaker 4: in chemistry, but they get an A plus in this
20:34
Speaker 4: history class, that means that I need to at least
20:37
Speaker 4: be able to receive from them this opportunity to grow.
20:40
Speaker 4: And I feel like in relationships that's hard, especially if
20:42
Speaker 4: you're married, because when you're married, your person brings up
20:45
Speaker 4: something and you like, oh, but last.
20:47
Speaker 3: Week you did X, Y and Z, But what did
20:49
Speaker 3: you do today?
20:50
Speaker 7: You know?
20:51
Speaker 3: And how can you own that?
20:52
Speaker 4: And I think when we own our stuff, we give
20:54
Speaker 4: other people permission to do it as well. Sometimes we
20:57
Speaker 4: want to be the person who receives the apology, but
21:00
Speaker 4: not the one who gives it but we have the
21:01
Speaker 4: lead in humility and vulnerability.
21:03
Speaker 1: You said, that's how you into a rate word initially.
21:06
Speaker 3: Right where oh no.
21:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, everything, Yes, his stuff at him all the time.
21:12
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if I was throwing his stuff
21:14
Speaker 4: at him as much as I was maybe reciting it
21:16
Speaker 4: in my own head. But I think I will say
21:18
Speaker 4: that when I was single, after I went through my divorce,
21:21
Speaker 4: I finally got my life together with me and my
21:23
Speaker 4: two kids. You really could not tell me that I
21:26
Speaker 4: was not misindependent out here. So I really went into
21:30
Speaker 4: our relationship with a certain level of pride where I
21:32
Speaker 4: was like, at the end of the day, I got
21:33
Speaker 4: my stuff together. I finally love who I am and
21:36
Speaker 4: embracing it. And so when I was in relationship with him,
21:39
Speaker 4: and he would just ask me the simplest of questions,
21:41
Speaker 4: we weren't even fighting.
21:42
Speaker 3: It would just be like, why'd you do that.
21:44
Speaker 4: I didn't like that because I'm not used to having
21:47
Speaker 4: nobody questioned my decisions, and it was a simple, harmless question.
21:51
Speaker 4: And so I think that I went into a defensive
21:53
Speaker 4: one because I wanted to protect my healing. And when
21:56
Speaker 4: you're in a marriage and you go into it trying
21:58
Speaker 4: to protect yourself and make sure that you don't get
22:01
Speaker 4: done the way that you were done in the past.
22:03
Speaker 4: I don't know that it's fair for creating intimacy, and
22:05
Speaker 4: so I had to do a lot of work of
22:07
Speaker 4: receiving his perspective and finding it valuable so that I
22:11
Speaker 4: could become better, and I have become better as a
22:13
Speaker 4: result of it.
22:16
Speaker 1: What does power look like in a relationship?
22:19
Speaker 3: Those dynamics are always changing.
22:21
Speaker 4: I think, especially now that we see you know, hyper
22:24
Speaker 4: masculinity is beginning to be interrogated. We're seeing women move
22:29
Speaker 4: into positions where sometimes they're the breadwinners and men are
22:32
Speaker 4: at home being more comfortable taking care of the family.
22:35
Speaker 4: I think power in a relationship is recognizing the strengths
22:39
Speaker 4: of what your person carries and how that strength builds
22:43
Speaker 4: you in your area of weakness, without feeling like they
22:46
Speaker 4: have to be strong or stronger in the same area
22:49
Speaker 4: that you're strong. I think it's like this symbiotic relationship,
22:52
Speaker 4: this flow where you're able to build a life together
22:55
Speaker 4: because both of you bring something different to the table,
22:57
Speaker 4: and to honor that, to really honor it is important.
23:02
Speaker 1: You said something else in the book.
23:03
Speaker 5: You said, when you are unable to connect the dots
23:05
Speaker 5: between who you since you could become and who you
23:07
Speaker 5: presently are. It doesn't just cause internal frustration. It renders
23:10
Speaker 5: you powerless. And one of the examples you use is
23:13
Speaker 5: you don't defend yourself when misunderstood. Yeah, and to me,
23:17
Speaker 5: not feeling to need to explain yourself is power.
23:22
Speaker 4: Well, I think not explaining yourself and not defending yourself,
23:25
Speaker 4: and I think it's different because you have a platform
23:28
Speaker 4: and so you can't defend yourself twenty four to seven.
23:31
Speaker 4: But when we're in intimate relationships with someone and they
23:34
Speaker 4: have an expectation of who we are or this idea
23:37
Speaker 4: of who we are, and we don't change that, we
23:40
Speaker 4: allow them to believe it, we do end up powerless
23:42
Speaker 4: because I'm not even bringing the full version of who
23:45
Speaker 4: I am into this friendship, into this parent child dynamic,
23:49
Speaker 4: and you end up robbing yourself of the ability to
23:51
Speaker 4: really show up in your power and allow them to
23:54
Speaker 4: believe something about you that's not true. And so it
23:56
Speaker 4: is powerful to be like, you got me messed up,
23:59
Speaker 4: Like that's not what I'm believe, that's not what I think.
24:01
Speaker 4: And if we're going to walk this thing, I want
24:03
Speaker 4: you to know who I am for real, so that
24:05
Speaker 4: you can know what to expect from me.
24:06
Speaker 1: Okay, you're talking about intimate relationship.
24:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It's hard for me.
24:15
Speaker 2: You know, she has to go. I know she has
24:16
Speaker 2: TV or something, but I know she has to go,
24:18
Speaker 2: so damn.
24:21
Speaker 4: Yeah.
24:22
Speaker 2: He's doing is telling them the book. They're not going
24:24
Speaker 2: to buy.
24:24
Speaker 6: If you ask all the questions about the book, making
24:27
Speaker 6: her basically recite the.
24:28
Speaker 5: Book, you should pray to your bob looks like hers,
24:31
Speaker 5: That's what you should now, Why my.
24:32
Speaker 3: Bob he can get here?
24:39
Speaker 6: Why like when she brought a wig off?
24:41
Speaker 1: Because I.
24:49
Speaker 3: Wouldn't the dressing world.
24:51
Speaker 6: Some questions them, so you forced me to see.
24:58
Speaker 1: Well, what message you hope people get from the Oh?
25:01
Speaker 4: The message that I am hoping people get from the
25:03
Speaker 4: book is that power is a flow, and that power
25:08
Speaker 4: that you have experienced in your past is still present
25:11
Speaker 4: in your future. It just must it just might be
25:13
Speaker 4: taking on a different form. So to be open to
25:16
Speaker 4: how power is being redefined in your present. Prayer, Thank
25:23
Speaker 4: you God for this opportunity, for this platform, Thank you
25:27
Speaker 4: for using these voices at this stage in their life.
25:30
Speaker 4: And I'd usually pray for the listeners, but God, I'm
25:33
Speaker 4: going to pray for them that you would stir up
25:36
Speaker 4: the gift of God that's on the inside of them,
25:38
Speaker 4: that you would highlight the areas of their life where
25:41
Speaker 4: you want them to experience more of your power and
25:45
Speaker 4: to show them the power that you've placed inside of them.
25:48
Speaker 4: I thank you God for giving them wisdom strategy not
25:52
Speaker 4: just for their careers, but for their family, their emotional
25:55
Speaker 4: health and wellness. And God, I pray that you would
25:57
Speaker 4: continue to show them your life that they may lean
26:00
Speaker 4: into it in Jesus' name.
26:02
Speaker 1: That's right.
26:02
Speaker 5: Make sure you go get Sarah Jke Roberts's new book,
26:04
Speaker 5: Power Moves Ignite your Confidence to become a Force, and
26:08
Speaker 5: subscribe to her podcast, The Woman of All Podcasts on
26:11
Speaker 5: the Black Effect.
26:11
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio podcast Network. That's right. We appreciate you for.
26:14
Speaker 5: Coming, Miss Roberts, and you need to come more often
26:16
Speaker 5: for people who think church is whack because you're the
26:18
Speaker 5: person that I feel like is going to bridge the
26:20
Speaker 5: gap between you know, church in this new generation. Yeah,
26:24
Speaker 5: I really feel that way.
26:25
Speaker 3: Oh, so thank you.
26:26
Speaker 4: That's that's a tremendous honor a lot of responsibility. But
26:30
Speaker 4: I'm committed to, you know, holding down my square.
26:32
Speaker 2: That's right, all right, Sarah Jakes Roberts.
26:35
Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club.
26:36
Speaker 2: Good morning, Wake that ass up in the morning.
26:39
Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club