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Cubs mailbag: What’s the level of concern with Cade Horton? | North Side Territory · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Saade Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick disaster struck
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: in Cleveland on Friday evening out here a progressive field.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm out in Cleveland.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Had a story ready to go about Cad Horton's elite
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: cut ride fastball, really unique pitch and seventeen pitches into
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: his start. Just a few pitches into the second inning,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: he issues a walk and then second pitch to Bowe Naylor.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: It's like ninety three point eight miles per hour. He'd
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: been sitting ninety six in the first inning, motions to
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the dugout. Cad Horton comes out of the game after
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Craig Counsel and the trainer, Nick fri Angela come out
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to chat with him. It was it wasn't like a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: long discussion. There was no let me throw a couple pitches.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It's let's get out of here, and Kate was clearly upset.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We hear its forearm tightness. A couple innings later, we
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: get that announcement in the press box. After the game,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: we learn tightness started in his wrist, popped up during
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the game, started moving into his forearm, and Kate said, no,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: let's cut this short. I don't want to. I know
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm putting my team in a bind, but this let's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: let's try and nip this in the butt and hope
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: it's just for this, you know, just a shorter stint
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and and not a terrible situation. We don't know what
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: it is right now, but that's that's the general summation
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: of what happened. Uh and and what I saw on
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Friday just a really big blow to the Cubs rotation
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: right now A picture. I think both you and I
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: had really high xps for coming into this season.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Knew he's a.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Huge part of this rotation with a chance to go
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: from breakout rookie campaign, Rookie of the Year runner up
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: to teammates on a World Series contender.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I did the off day story on Kate Horton and
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: this idea of how they're sort of planning to unleash
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: him eventually. And I don't know if that story was
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: timely or foolish in retrospect, but I think some of
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the ideas within that was, like counsel saying the first
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: three weeks of the season are particularly delicate for starting
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: pitchers and that you're probably going to see lower pitch
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: counts at the start of the year, and that they
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: were very effective with how they.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Managed him last year.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: And you know, Kate, I think you me everyone who's
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: talked to him. I feel like he has kind of
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: this old school mentality in terms of he is a
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: great competitor.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: He's very focused. H He's all.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: About beating the opponent in that in that at bat
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: of like winning that pitch, and I think.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: It's very refreshing.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: You know, he's not really kind of pointing to his
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: peripheral metrics, is like did I did I beat that
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: guy or not? And I don't know what was your
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: I don't know leaving the clubhouse last night, what was
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: your sort of gut feel? And also just like I
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: guess what were the next steps that they they outlined?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So it so initial gut feel is okay, trying to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you're you're you're reading body language initially right
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that that's what you're doing until you're in the clubhouse,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And it's not ideal, it's not it's not what any
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: of us really want to do. But we're trying to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: figure out, Like, he didn't look that happy coming off
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the mound. Obviously he's not going to be thrilled that
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: he's he's coming off the mound injured. Uh, you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: he is a he is a passionate guy. He cares
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a lot. We know that that h Like it wasn't
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a situation where he threw the ball and then like
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: his his arm is like you know, he's like shaking
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: it or dangling or whatever. Yeah, nothing like that happens.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, there's not like some acute injury
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: at least that we can see. But still we have
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: no clue. When you say forearm tightness, that can mean
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a thousand different things. So it's like, what's going to
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: be the reaction when we getting there?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Counsel was He said both things.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: He said, Look, any time you're sending a picture to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the doctor, sending him home, you're removing him in the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: second inning of a game.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: There is concern.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, Like when I asked him, how concerned are you?
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: You didn't give me like you know, I'm a ten
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: out of ten or something like that. Council isn't going
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to do stuff like that, but it was very clear
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: that yes there is concern, we're sending him for imaging,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: We're sending him home to go see a doctor. So
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the next steps are He's I found this interesting and
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't get like a clear explanation of why. I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: think it's as simple as there's nothing he's going on
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the IL so that they're not They're not sending him
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: back until Sunday, it sounds like, and then he'll probably
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: get imaging done on Monday.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Why is that.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's because they know, like, Okay, this is
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: not something that needs to be rushed. He can go
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: back on his own time. He is going on the IL,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: he's missing fifteen days at minimum, so may as well,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: so there's no need to like, you know, is he
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: going to be ready for his next start? Isn't on
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: their mind. It's just about, like, you know, take your time,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: get home in a timely manner. They didn't need to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: rush him back, but that's those are the next steps.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Council did say he was feeling optimistic. I don't have
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I should look exactly what his words were. He so
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Wharton said, I'm pretty hopeful. I'm airing on the cautious side.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I felt like I made the right move, though it
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: sucks doing that putting the bullpen in everyone in that situation.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: So he's feeling positive.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Counsel did say, you know, this isn't He didn't make
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: it seem like it was a disaster or that he
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: was too concerned about things. Let me try and find
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: his quote. Yeah, you know what, I can't find it,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be searching.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: While I talk.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's reason to be optimistic that this is something minor.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: It's going to be ani El stint, but it could
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: be minor. We could have him back out pitching relatively soon.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I think those two quotes, if you're the optimistic type
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of fan cling to the I think you and I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: have been doing this long enough that look, I don't
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: want it to be over. Yeah, I don't want to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: be Debbie Downer, but we've done this long enough where
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it's like we just can't take those optimistic quotes at
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: face value.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: They have to. I think it's smart for them to
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: be optimistic.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I think putting out positive energy is a good thing
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: when you're a player or manager. But like I think
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: after Justin Steele's injury, they thought it was going to
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: be a minimum stint initially, we know what happened. I've
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: also covered teams where this happens, and the guy it's
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a fifteen day stint.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: That's it. Like this they say it.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Everyone's panicking, thinking as Tommy John and it's like, now
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I just felt something weird and we're just being cautious here,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and we got the imaging and yeah, there's some inflammation
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: or there's this, and it's gonna be fifteen twenty days
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and you're back on a throwing program and back out
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: there and ready to go.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Right now.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: It's I would definitely just say wait until the imaging
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: comes back before you do any celebrating. As a Cubs fan,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it is like one of those tenuous situations where you're
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: like just waiting to hear back. That's how every Cub's
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: official is going to be feeling. Go get that imaging,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: let's see what this says. Until we hear that, everyone's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: going to be a little stressed out about it.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we have a question here.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good segue of like, how how are
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: the Cubs going to sort of manage this situation?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so this was before the injury so we
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: obviously asked for mailbag questions, so we can we can
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: get to some of those questions. W Kennedy asked, how
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: will they treat Steele's return to the rotation in terms
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: of length of rehab assignment, predictions on who leaves the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: rotation when Steel comes back. Well, I think the way
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I was going to answer this, Patrick is these things
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: have a way of working themselves out like that. So
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Steel is on the sixty day sixty day, I L
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I believe the earliest he can return is May twenty fourth.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: They have not given us a timeline. They're not going
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to give us an exact date. They're like, Council has
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: been clear, like, look, these things go in waves. Essentially rehab.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You can have a great week and feel like, hey,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to go out in a rehab assignment, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: then you the next day you're like, oh man, I'm
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: really sore and it feels like a setback.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: It's not a setback.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: It's just how rehab goes, and you just have to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: be patient and really let it, let it take its course.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I think as we get closer to you know, maybe
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: May mid May, we'll have an idea of when he's
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: going out there. How many starts he needs? My guess
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: is it's like a normal build up. You know, twenty
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: five pitches you know, then and you build up by
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: fifteen pitches each time out something like that in twenty
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: five thirty in the first one, and then go from there,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and you want him at like seventy five to be ready.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That's assuming that everything is going smoothly at the big
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: league level, right, I mean, we don't know if Kate
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Horton will be still pitching at that time, and if not,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: they do have other options other than Justin Steele. We
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: saw Colin Ray come in yesterday pitch really well. We
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: saw him do it last year, pitched really well. He's
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a good depth starter. I think Council said it pretty
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: well essentially. What his point was like, you don't replace
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Kate Horton, but you need other guys to step up.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: You need you know, you're not getting Cad Horton production,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: but you need guys that can kind of steady the ship.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Colin Ray would be number one on my list to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: do that. Ben Brown, I thought he had one outing
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and one good outing in relief. He's so tam antilizing
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and if he can figure it out. He could be
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a big piece here. And then you have Javier Asad
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and then you start talking about like when does Jordan
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Wicks return. Obviously justin Steele like we're talking about, and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: then way down the line, probably June, July, August, you
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: can start talking about Jackson Wiggins. I do not want
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to compare him to Kate Horton. Kate Horton did not
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: have these walk issues that Jackson Wiggins had. Kate Horton
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: actually had a better health history than Jackson Wiggins. Jackson
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Wiggins like barely has thrown, like he just hasn't thrown
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: many innings professional innings. So I don't think you can
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: rush someone like that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think with Steel how you framed it earlier.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: You know, what the Cubs have said is if Stell
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: wakes up one morning and feels sore and needs three
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: three days to kind of bounce back, like that obviously
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: changes the schedule. And I think late May, early June
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: is what they have.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Circled.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: You know, I'd imagine, you know, whenever he does come back,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: you'd want someone like.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Colin Ray or Ben Brown kind of available to.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Maybe absorb some of those leftover innings and look like
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: the Cubs would be thrilled if they actually have a
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: decision to make. Like we're assuming Edward Cabrera is going
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: to be healthy for entire season. I don't think he's
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: ever done that in the majors before. But Tyrone looked
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: pretty good. I mean, the whole whole rotation first time
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: through looked pretty good. But you know, we'll see, you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: boyd WBC injury history, and then you have showeda's leg
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: injury I want to say last year hamstring or whatever.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: I feel like it popped up late May, early June, so.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I think it was early, you know, Wasn't that why
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Horton got called up? I think it's why Horton got
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: called up?
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, Well, I mean you're looking at that time
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: frame layer where things are just going to happen, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're really too concerned about it at all.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: But I think to your point, you know, Steal Horton Cabrera,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: there are some guys that just have like that sort
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: of it factor, and Horton was that guy that I
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: think we we all were like, you know, what he
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: did in the second half didn't have quite the volume,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: but that was a cy Young level performance. If he
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: if he was like unleashed and now, like you said,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: there's no no replacing him. It's just kind of, you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: leaning on on that depth that they've been talking about
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: really since camp started.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Patrick, I want to take it before you go to
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the next question. I want to tell you and the
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: listeners a story. And there's a point that I have.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: It's a good story, I think, but there's also a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: point here. Last night after the game, I came back
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to my hotel. I sat at the bar and grabbed
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: some dinner and a drink. Sitting next to I think
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they were both. They were Guardian fans and Cubs fans
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: at the bar. Some of them started chatting. They started
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: chatting with me. This guy sits down has a bandage
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: on his nose, and the people next to me, they're
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: like talking to each other. They're like, should we ask him?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Should we ask him why he's got this big bandage
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: on his nose. It's like bloody, it's clear that it's fresh,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Like is this guy is? Did this guy just get
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in the fight? Like what happened? So they finally ask him.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: He tells us last night So this is Friday night.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So Thursday night, he's out with his buddies. They're out laid.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: He goes and instead of coming back to his hotel,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: he crashes on his buddy's couch. Wakes up to this
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: guy's dog chewing on his nose, like attacking him. This dude, wow,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: just gets up, leaves, walks twenty minutes back to the hotel,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: sleeps it off, wakes up, realizes, oh, I can't just like,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: this is worse than I thought. He had to go
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to the hospital get stitches. Like he's he's got like
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you can see he's got the IV wrap around his arm,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: he's got the hospital like like you know, ID bracelets,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: he's got everything like and like I'm telling you, this
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: is like fresh there's fresh blood on there. And then
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and then he's like he's like, but you know what,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it's not. It hasn't been that bad of the day
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: of a day chased the latter homeward Guardians one.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's all good. So that's it. It's just the power
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: of positivity people. Obviously that's a Guardians fan. They get
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to celebrate, they're they're opening a home opener. Win.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So Cubs fans just be positive. Just look at the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: bright side. It's all good. You got Colin Ray, you
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: got Ben Brown, It's gonna be okay. So I was
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: blown away by this guy just sitting there, delighted, not
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: not bitter about getting his nose chewed up by a dog,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: just just happy that chased a lotter homeward and he
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: got to see a guardian's w uh this.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: On the road with side And.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm curious what the place actually was that
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: you went, and you said it was a hotel barb
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: so some some sort of questionable establishment on the streets
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: of Cleland.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: We can move on here to the next question.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: What effect will all the new contracts, if any have
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: on the team possibly buying at the deadline. That's Chase
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Riddle new contracts. I mean, it doesn't change of their
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: payroll structure this year. There's a limited change this year.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And in general, it's just very rarely do teams trade
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: for future money at the deadline. Most of the time
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you're just trading for expiring contracts. That's how the deadline
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: most like the East hop Paridis trades are rare. Those
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: are rare. You don't really see that. I don't think
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: it has any impact, and I think the Cubs, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: assuming they're competing and we'll obviously have holes to fill
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that they can go be as aggressive as they want.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: I think you might have asked Rickitts this in Mesa
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: at the beginning of spring training. Any basically, I'll say
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: the same thing I've said basically the last fifteen, sixteen,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: seventeen years, however long they've owned the team, of that
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: the teams in contention, the money will be there.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I think history has shown that to be accurate. And
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: you're right, I guess there was.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, p probably peak out a signing bonus, like
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: maybe there's a little they're already planning to go over
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: the luxury tax threshold. I think that maybe that's what
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Chase was getting at, and they were so close in
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: spring training that they just assumed they were gonna.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Go over.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: And so I don't think this will be a huge
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: factor at all.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I'm just looking at it. It says according to roster resource,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: they're at two forty five point six essentially, so they're
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: already over according to this, and oftentimes we're told that,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, those numbers are generally lower than what they
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: kind of budget for because there's there's money whenever you
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: like send a guy down and call someone up, that's money. Like,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: there's there's factors that like there's all these little things
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that we don't really uh consider or the public data
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't really show. So they're going to go they're obviously
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: over and unless they end up selling for some reason,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: unless these injuries pile up or something and they fall
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: out of it or something like that. Uh you know, there,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: there's there's no reason to think that they're going to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: they're going to be under the luxury tax.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Uh One more question here from Tyler Dershel. Do the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Cubs have certain philosophies implementation when it comes to utilizing
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: abs challenges for the players? Tyler continued, I couldn't fit
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: it all on here, but he was basically saying, it
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: seems like they're being a little timid about it, essentially,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: or indecisive or not being aggressive.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I think there was some fan complaints at I.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Think it was game one, uh yeah, and like there
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: was a big play for Nico. I think there was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a big play, a big call one of the pitchers,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: but I think the Nico one was the one that
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: people really honed in on you were there. I missed
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that pregame, Patrick, But I think Council talked about this.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Council's talked about it a lot, you know in spring.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to like like want to share like
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: there's some huge philosophy here. Yes, there are leverage moments
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and you don't want to waste it on the first
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: pitch of the game.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: But would you tell me what he said?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to share some observations of what I've seen
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: over the past couple games.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was the main thrust of it,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: of understanding leverage, understanding situations, having game awareness, which I
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: think by and large this team is sort of known.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: For, Like that's a big part of their identity. So yes,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: the first pitch of the game, uh, challenge it.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: And I think Jed Hoyer might have even used this example, like,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: but the first inning could have one of those moments.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Where it does make sense.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Job if it's bases loaded and you know, you feel
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: like you have a chance to kind of knock that
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: other team out and you know, flip flip the game
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: to where they're using like their b relievers, like, yeah,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: go for it like that that could certainly be it.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: As you add base runners, as leverage increases, you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: go for it.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I'm with you. Council is not.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Really like an absolutist in like anything. I would say,
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: like he's always very much just sort of like like.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Wait, wait and see.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: And that's how he's framed this as well of in
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you know, three weeks or so, he thinks everyone will
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: have like a better sort of understanding for it. And
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Jed Hoyer made the point too of like spring training
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: was not helpful in this regard because there's no average
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: in any spring training game.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Ever.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, for guys, guys trying to make a team, like
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: they feel that pressure, but there's no sort of like
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: apples to Apple's comparison there of like oh, this game
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: at Sloan Park and then when we get to Wrigley,
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: we'll do it this way.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Like I think it's more of just.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: You know, Council trusting his players and knowing that you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: once you use one, that probably changes some of the
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: calculus as well. But as very Tyler always has good questions.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: This has been popping up and it's kind of an
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: evolving thing that I think towards the end of April
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: we might get a better handle on.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the last couple of games so
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I think. So the Nico situation was one where I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: believe it was a three to zero count. It was
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a three ball count for sure. I think Nico ended
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: up either I think he ended up grounding into a
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: double play or something like that. It would have been
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: bases loaded, one out. It ends up being end of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the inning. That that was Opening Day where they lost
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: ten to four, So it was it was one of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: It was a game that they had a lot of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: They had a lot of.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Runners on base.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: If I'm if my I'm going off memory, I think
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: they went four for nineteen with runners in scoring position,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: so they had a lot of opportunities to score, just
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: missed that one big hit. It's almost like in that
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: situation late in the game, just tap your helmet. But
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: he also thought it was a strike. So it's it's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a complete change in mentality. It's something where it's like
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you have to you have to go in there thinking
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: like if there's anything close in a leverage count, I
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: gotta just I gotta just challenge. And that's that's a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: change of mentality because if you think it's a strike.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: It's like that was I thought that was a strike. Okay,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that's a strike. Like it's hard to be like, okay,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to challenge it because it's just it's a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: completely different it's an added piece of strategy that you
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: just aren't contemplating, and now you have to kind of
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: change that mindset. I have noticed, i'd say the past
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: couple games. Maybe it was just yesterday that we're recording
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning, maybe it was just Friday. I
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: know Hap did it. There was a Dansby Swanson challenge.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I can't remember if that was if that was at
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Wrigley or if that was yesterday as well, but it
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: was almost like they just like Halp was like it
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: was a strike, but he challenged. Anyways, it was later
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: in the game. They're down three runs. He's just trying
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to get on base essentially, and he challenged. He was
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: trying to get into a better count and draw a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: walk there. I think those are the types of things
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you may see more often, like that's it's late in
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the game, you have your two challenges, you're down, you
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: got to take a risk.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: It's like that was close.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Okay, just tap the helmet, just do
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: it and see what happens. And I think maybe that's
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the strategy part of it, or the mental change part
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: of it, that that kind of hasn't fully set in
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: for everyone, and I think we'll see some of that
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: where you're just kind of desperate for.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I think Counsel's outlook too, is what he's stressed is how.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Hard it is, like just the game in general.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: But he's talking about these umps are very good at
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: their jobs. In general, you're talking about like a fraction
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: of an inch, and also how fast this stuff happens
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: in real time. So I think just all of it
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: doesn't make it seem like Counsel is, you know, laser
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: focused on abs here.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I think he just is. He also doesn't want to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: hear the like.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: I think he also seems kind of annoyed at the
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: sort of like narrative aspect of this, like how could.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: You not challenge that?
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: Like I think that yeah, just sort of something that
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: will could potentially annoy as. I think it's good, good
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: theater for us and for fans. But his point of
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: just like like these umpires know what they're doing. He
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: thinks the hitters know the egregious misses, but otherwise I
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: don't even know if it's even like a gray area,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: Like he just feels like it is, you know, just
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: way easier to kind of second guess a couple hours
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: later versus the making that real time decision, and like
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: we said earlier, not wanting to waste it on like
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: sort of who cares pitches right right?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: And I mean he he's really gone out of his
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: way lately to a couple things. And we all, I
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: think we all see this. These pitches are so close,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: like fractions of an inch, either in the zone or
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: out of the zone, like those the fact that they
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: get them right is insane. Like these are fifty to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: fifty coin flips some of these calls, and and like
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it's not like the gregious ones go viral. Steebee Buckner
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is a headline, But I think council really wishes people
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: focused on how good a lot of the umpires are.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: There was someone that missed two calls all game the
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: other day, and councils like, we should be talking about
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that guy, like the like that's how he looks at it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I read the story about that.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, he's right in that sense, but also,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: no one's gonna read that story, but yeah, exactly. But
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: he's got a point that, like we do tend to
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: focus on the negative aspect of this instead of like
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: how good some of the umpires are.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: That's just the world we live in, and especially with
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: social media, and nobody's gonna be like, look at this
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: amazing umpire and all the calls he got right, because
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: in a lot of people's eyes, it's like that's their job.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: They have to get it right. But it's an incredibly
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: tough job. Most of them do it really well. Obviously
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the ones that do it poorly are going to get,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: you know, crapped on and then a lot of viral
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: videos go out online.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Think it's something that we're going to see their strategy
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: strategy develop in some way, and it may just be
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: like late in the game, you just got to tap
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: your helmet sometimes when you're down and figure it out.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: It's not always like well that was close. It's just
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: like I don't know, I'm just going to take a
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: risk here type thing. We'll see how it develops. Obviously,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the biggest news in everything we should be focused should
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: be focused on Kate Horton's health. We'll see if we
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: get news on that before our next episode, but we
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: will be back next week with three more episodes. Thank
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you for listening everyone, This is Northside Territory. Make sure
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: top of all things cubs. Thanks for listening everyone. Take
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: care my dad along the