Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Bradley Pierce: If Abortion Is Murder, What Should Christians Be Doing Differently?

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Bradley Pierce: If Abortion Is Murder, What Should Christians Be Doing Differently? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  VWade has been overturned in 11 states abortion is effectively bad.
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  My name is Megan. Now that I'm pregnant with my first baby, I care more about protecting life than ever.
• 0:16
  I keep seeing pro-life headlines say some states are abortion free, including mine.
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  But are they?
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  I
• 0:27
  want to find out what's really going on.
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  We don't see any abortions being reported to the department of health.
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  Well, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma are saying the biggest
• 0:39
  increases in requests for abortion pills. So since Roe vs. Way has been overturned,
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  is abortion illegal in South Carolina? I think so. Yes, abortion illegal, Oklahoma, yes.
• 0:48
  Is abortion illegal in Texas? Yes. No, it's not illegal.
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  On Mayday.Health, we tell you how. People are still getting pills by mail.
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  So I got both abortion pills that I ordered in the mail.
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  Now the whole culture is the abortion clinic.
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  If what we've been doing isn't working, what should we do?
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  Abolitionism versus being pro-life. Those are two different things.
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  The biggest distinction between the pro-life movement and adolescence movement is we engage biblically.
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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues,
• 1:24
  discerning current events, defending Biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now here's your host, David Firazo.
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  Hey, friends. We're going to jump right into this today. I hope you
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  appreciated that little trailer. We're going to talk about the demonic abortion movement in the
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  lies. We're going to refute some of those lies thanks to the foundation to abolish abortion.
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  One of the questions we're going to answer is today abortion is supposedly banned in I think
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  14 states. But the pill is skyrocketing. They call it self-managed abortions. They're on the rise.
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  So today we're blessed to have Bradley Pierce with us. He's a constitutional attorney. He's been
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  practicing for over 17 years. He has drafted legislation in more than 30 states supporting
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  self-defense rights, parental rights, civil liberties, and the right to life, including
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  drafting dozens of equal protection bills filed to abolish abortion. Bradley has been admitted
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  to practice before the U.S. Supreme Court, where on behalf of 21 organizations and 20 state
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  legislators from across the country, he filed a brief in the Dobbs case, Dobbs versus Jackson
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  Women's Health Organization. Bradley is the president of the foundation to abolish abortion and
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  also abolish abortion Texas. Bradley Pierce, welcome to World View Matters. Thanks for your time
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  today. Thanks for what you're having. It's great to be with you. Great to have you and help us shed
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  some light on some of these kind of the confusing talking points you hear from the left and from
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  those who would be pro-abortion, but unfortunately, we're also going to talk about some resistance.
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  You guys get from even Christians or people in the pro-life battle, the pro-life community.
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  So where do you want to start? You want to talk about the foundation to abolish abortion first,
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  and then we'll talk about abortion free? That sounds great. Great. So go ahead.
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  Yeah, so foundation to abolish abortion. We call ourselves abolitionists. We're all pro-life
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  in the sense that we're for a life, but the term abolitionist is more specific, and it creates a
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  distinction. We can talk about some of that more later, but it's kind of in the name. We want to
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  abolish abortion. We want to see it illegal. We want to see it criminalized. We want to see it
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  treated like everybody protected the same, or as the 14th Amendment says, equal protection of the
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  laws for all persons. That's what we believe God would have us do. That's what's constitutional.
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  That's what's logical. That's the only thing that's practically going to end legalized abortion
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  in this country, and that's what we stand for at the foundation of abolish abortion.
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  Equal protection for all of our pre-born neighbors who are made in the image of God.
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  So we really want to get the church to engage on this issue in ways that we have not been
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  successful, meaning those who are truly for saving pre-born human lives and mothers'
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  wombs. I wanted to mention or ask you about the equipping the saints to abolish abortion,
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  the conference. Did that already take place, or is that coming up?
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  It did take place, but folks can find, if they want to go walk back and watch those great
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  lectures and sermons there, that's on our YouTube channel, Foundation to Boulish Abortion.
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  They can find out from people from all across the country, Jeff Durbin, Tom Askell, Josh
• 4:59
  Bies, with G3 ministries, and lots of others that spoke there to learn really about what does God
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  have to say about this issue and cover a whole lot of ground. Considering the magnitude of this
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  issue, we think it's important for every Christian to be well educated on it.
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  What about abortion free? You are the co-executive producer of abortion free. I see
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  a lot of these videos over on YouTube. Tell us about that because we played a little bit of the
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  trailer to start this podcast, and I'll tell you what, some of those things were very eye-opening.
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  People in conservative or what we consider red states are thinking abortion is abolished,
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  so there's some ignorance out there, so share about abortion free and then whatever else you'd like.
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  Yeah, so we produce that with my friend Brett Baggett. He's a co-executive producer and
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  he's with rescue those, and it's just letting people know, you know, after the DOBS decision,
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  overturn a Roe versus Wade, a lot of people were like, hey, we overturn Roe versus Wade,
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  that's what we've been trying to do, so that means at least in my state, if I live in conservative
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  state, then hey, we have victory. We've done what we've been trying to do. We can go back,
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  we can go focus on other issues because we've protected all the babies here, right?
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  But that's not actually what's going on since DOBS overturn Roe. There's actually more abortions
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  in this country than even before DOBS, and so the docuseries, six-part docuseries each episode,
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  about 25, 30 minutes, very digestible for people to really see what's really going on,
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  what numbers are actually happening of abortions across the country, even in these conservative
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  states? Why is that the case? Why are there still legal there in every state? And then what should
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  Christians do about it? Okay, I want this to sink in to, we have always get new listeners and
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  new viewers. So you said since Roe v Wade was overturned, abortions have increased. And I believe
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  Planned Parenthood, at least under the Biden administration, got a raise. Planned Parenthood was
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  given more tax dollars over 700 million, I believe, every year. Talk to us a little bit about
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  that because a lot of people are scratching their heads and going, wait a minute, didn't Roe v Wade
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  take care of everything? I know it's a states issue now, but how can there be more abortions if a
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  lot of the states have so-called, you know, bans on abortions? Exactly, I mean that's again,
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  that's to be your natural thing. So 14 states passed trigger bills or human life protection acts,
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  right? Some would consider total bans or general bans, other states, a couple other states
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  have passed, heartbeat bills, and yet abortion numbers are higher. So what's going on is,
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  immediately after dogs, what the data looks like is that right after dogs, we saw that abortion
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  numbers declined slightly. You know, we praise God for every baby that may have been saved then.
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  But very quickly, even in those states, those who, with women who, you know, want abortions,
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  figured out that there's really two main ways to get them. One is by abortion travel,
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  right? By going to other states, but one that very quickly exploded in popularity and is now
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  exceeding abortion travel and the numbers that I've seen is abortion pills by male or self-induced
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  or self-managed abortion, where they're actually, it's like the, you know, going online and
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  ordering anything else, right? You just go online, order the pills, they're way cheaper,
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  way easier, delivered to your home, and then you do the abortion right there at home. And that,
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  those numbers are exploding. And so we're seeing that even in those 14 states, even there,
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  overall the number of abortions are higher than before dogs. So this is, and the Bible talks about
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  new ways to do evil. I mean, there's, there's nothing new under the sun. There's always been child
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  sacrifice and, you know, abortion murder, but there, this pill, how has that changed the landscape
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  here, Bradley? By the way, we're speaking of Bradley Pierce, friends, the president of the foundation
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  to abolish abortion. I didn't give the website, FAA.life, FAA.life. So Bradley, the, the pill,
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  now I know there's an abortion reversal pill. So there are things that you can do, but this thing
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  is how did it get FDA approval? I mean, how was it? There's no regulation. If you can take it at
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  home, you can get it in the mail. Can you explain how that's changed even in your work?
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  Yeah. So it's, you like you said, nothing new under the sun. And if you, if you're always going
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  after methods, then people are always going to find a new method to do evil. And that's why we
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  have to criminalize the actual act of murdering your child, right? Of causing the death of your child
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  with criminal intent. As long as we're just over going after the methods, then this, as others have
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  said, it's like, it's like we're just chopping at the branches of a tree. You know, it's like we're
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  just basically pruning the tree and, and we're never actually getting at the root. And the root is
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  people want to kill their children and they do it. And so that's what has to be illegal. And then
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  maybe we can deal with, you know, some of the methods and things like that. But the pill,
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  you know, even before the dobs case, over 60% of abortions were happening via the pill.
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  At that time, really gotten, gotten almost exclusively from clinics. But now since dobs has made it
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  more difficult, you know, in some states to go to clinics and get those. Now that has made the
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  online market for the pills, explode, driven down costs. And so that's what's happening. So even with
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  out the pregnancy, help centers are now have women coming in all the time and talking about how
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  they got the pill and use the pill. And so we're seeing a lot of that happening.
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  So how do you respond to the argument that criminalizing abortion could lead to dangerous
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  consequences for women and attempts at unsafe procedures? So how do you respond to that?
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  Every, every abortion is dangerous, right? And it's dangerous for the child. I mean, that's
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  the purpose of it, right? The purpose of it is to is to inflict dangerous violence on this child
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  and to end their existence. So that's extremely dangerous. And so we've got to, we have to make
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  that illegal. It's not something that we need to just be sanitizing or sterilizing or making
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  safer, right? It's not, it's our goal to make it easier to murder your child, right? The goal is
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  to make it illegal. So that way people won't do it to deter people from doing that. Take that option
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  off the table. So friends, the mission that you talked a little bit about to begin with is to
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  exalt and vindicate the image of God by promoting sound public policy that provides all pre-born
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  human beings the equal protection of the laws. Where we're at in American society today,
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  that's an uphill battle. What can you tell us about the equal protection fight that you guys
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  are engaged in? You know, it's like a lot of great evils that they're always uphill battles,
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  right? And they're, they always seem impossible until they become possible until, you know,
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  there's a, there's a common phrase in politics that nothing moves in politics and lets someone
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  pushes it. And, and so we believe that as Christians, it's, it's our duty loving our pre-born
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  labor as ourselves, made in the image of God, to do what God tells us to do and to call our
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  magistrates, right? Our elected officials to do what God tells them to do. And he says to provide
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  justice for the fatherless without partiality. He says you shall not murder. And that's what we
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  believe our laws should say. And he says that we're all made in his image. The Scripture makes
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  very clear that life begins a conception. And so that's what we should be protecting it right from
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  the beginning, what we call scientifically fertilization. And, you know, if I were just looking at
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  things in my own strength or through my own eyes, walking by sight, you know, a Scripture when I
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  put it, then I would be very discouraged. And I would say there's no hope that this is ever
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  going to get abolished. But that's not what we're called to do. We're called to what by faith
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  and not by sight. And I know God could absolutely abolish it in any second that he so chooses.
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  And there's no political party. There's no planned parenthood. There's no one that could stand
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  in his way. No giants are too big for him. And so, so we walk in that, we walk in that hope.
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  I was just thinking about just this is like a David and a Goliath story. But I mean,
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  that's biblical. There's a lot of things that get done when it starts off as the Christian
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  would work on this situation in culture or these battles, cultural battles. And it is Goliath
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  sometimes. And in this case, the abortion, machine and the planned parenthood, big abortion. By the
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  way, we've had Matt Trewella on to fight tyrants, missionaries of the preborn. We've had him in
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  monies that kind of like a neighbor, he's a hundred miles down just south down the freeway here.
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  But one thing I wanted to quote is on your website, it's a great line over at the about your
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  vision. It says, imagine a society where the same laws protecting people after birth also protect
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  people before birth. It's very, I mean, Bradley, it's very profound, very simple. And you think,
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  yeah, why? Why don't we have a society? But I think what you can read into that, there's this
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  battle about personhood. How do you define that living entity inside a mother's womb? Is that a
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  preborn human being? Is that a person? Isn't that at the heart of the battle here?
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  It really is. And really, it's where that all comes back to and not just defining personhood,
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  but defining what we should do about it. And this is what really also is very important to us as
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  abolitionists is that we have to speak as Christians and we have to use God's word, science and
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  human reason and human rights and all that. Those are helpful and we should be making those arguments.
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  But ultimately, if we're just saying abortion is wrong because it's a human rights violation,
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  then really that's just our own opinion, right? We're just saying you shouldn't do this because I
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  said so, or this person said so, or these people say so. Ultimately, we don't have moral authority
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  when we speak like that. We have to come at this and say, no, no, this is wrong because God says so.
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  He's a creator of life. He's a sustainer of life. He decides when life begins. He decides when
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  life ends. He gives. He takes away. He hasn't delegated to us to take innocent life. But in fact,
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  he has the goodness of duty to provide justice when people do that. And so we have to walk in this
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  that we're doing what we do because that's what he says to do.
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  We're speaking with Bradley Pierce. He is the president of the foundation to abolish abortion a
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  lot more coming up on World View Matters. Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
• 16:27
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• 16:41
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• 16:58
  and share the podcast. It's how it's getting out there. Praise God. So Bradley Pierce,
• 17:05
  what's the difference in the pro-life movement and the anti-abortion movement? And why is sometimes
• 17:13
  even legislation debated within? It's like, yeah, you know, yeah, go ahead. I'll just let you answer.
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  Yeah, that's a big, you know, that's a big question. And with certainly, it's easy to like overgeneralize,
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  but what I'll say is that, you know, the main distinction between the abolitionist movement as a whole
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  and the pro-life movement as a whole, speaking of like the pro-life lobby, right? Those involved in
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  the political and legislative side, threefold. Number one, we believe that we start with scripture
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  and we argue scripture. We say, God says, that's why we should do this. Number two, we believe
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  an equal protection of the laws. The same laws protect me, should protect pre-born children before
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  they're born. God calls that, you know, loving our neighbor as ourselves, right? Justice without
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  partiality or equal justice, equal justice under laws. What's written on the front of the
• 18:04
  Supreme Court building in DC? And finally, the final, the third main distinction is that we believe
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  that God has forbidden us to try to end abortion through means of partiality, writing bills that
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  require us to discriminate because of the age of the child or to say that mothers, you know,
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  this should not apply to the mother simply because she's a woman, writing immunity into the
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  laws when, wait, we don't do that for born people. And then also we don't, we don't believe that we
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  should, you know, the God, God has given us very explicit command about how we're to abolish abortion
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  and that does not include regulating the who, when, where, why, and how abortion and just kind of
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  treating it like healthcare or business. No, we're to treat it as a crime, as murder. And so those
• 18:58
  are the main distinction distinctions. So what would the foundation to abolish abortion's ideal
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  model of enforcement be? Because this would be a radical change. I think it's a needed change,
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  but as we've had this debate already, you know, don't criminalize the mother. Well, what is she
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  doing? We got to get back to what is actually happening to that human life. Go ahead, Bradley.
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  Yeah. Well, there's three main purposes of passing a law of equal protection, just like any other
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  criminal law. First of all, it's to teach. It's to teach society. Here's when life begins,
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  here's how much we value it. And that's what the law does. Secondly, you know, a lot of people
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  agree with that. That will help change culture. But if people don't agree with that, the second
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  purpose of criminal law is to restrain, right? People who don't want to agree with it. They want
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  to violate it. Well, then there's penalties attached to it that then restrain evil. And so that's
• 19:59
  the second purpose of the law, right? To deter people from committing crimes in the first place.
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  And then thirdly, the purpose of the law is to provide justice. In this case, with the shedding
• 20:10
  of innocent blood, we have justice to the victim, justice to their family, justice to God, whose image
• 20:16
  has been slain. And then justice, the Bible puts it to the land, which has been polluted by the
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  shedding of innocent blood and from which, you know, the voice of the innocent cries out to God
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  for justice. And so justice satisfies all that. And then the carrying out of the justice also,
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  then further goes back and teaches and provides a lesson and then deters. And so ultimately,
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  it's not that, you know, we believe in equal protection. We believe in, you know, the laws for
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  homicide, murdering any wish to be illegal for everyone. It's not only, you know, it's not that we
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  like, oh, well, we just want to go punish people. It's like, no, we, it's supposed to deter the
• 20:54
  conduct, right? And that, that's the main enforcement mechanism is the self enforcement, right?
• 20:59
  People say, oh, I don't want to do that because I'm afraid of the consequences. And that's why there's
• 21:04
  so many abolitionists to women. There are many of them that are opposed to bored of themselves
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  that have that on their conscience. And by the grace of God have been saved for that,
• 21:14
  through the blood of Christ, they can save us from all sins. And so they have, they have hope.
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  But then they say, you know, I wish it had been illegal for me. And there could have been criminal
• 21:25
  penalties for me because then I never would have done it. And that's the whole purpose.
• 21:30
  Amen, brother. Oh, my goodness. There is a lot of abortion regret. But as you said,
• 21:36
  no sin is unforgivable for as far as I understand. Abortion can be forgiven. And that's,
• 21:42
  that's by the way, the male father of the preborn child, they're often involved in that decision.
• 21:49
  So it can be forgiven. Has the Trump administration now that President Trump is back
• 21:56
  in the White House? I mean, praise God for some of the things he's doing. Does that change your work
• 22:02
  or how does, how might that change your work, at least federally or by states?
• 22:09
  Well, it's certainly, you know, it's certainly a step up from the Biden administration.
• 22:14
  So we're grateful for that. You know, it's been sad to see how President Trump,
• 22:21
  you know, during the campaign and even the previous administration, you know, he,
• 22:26
  you know, he said he's for rape and incest exceptions. And we think that's a giant compromise.
• 22:33
  And, you know, it's been a number of other things he's done and said and and interfered in some
• 22:37
  of the state stuff that, you know, that has been a big problem. But I, you know, I'm not giving up
• 22:43
  hope on him. And we're going to be putting together a letter to President Trump just, you know,
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  calling on him, you know, just laying out here's explicitly the policy, you know, decisions that
• 22:56
  we think that he should make to provide equal protection for preborn children in the United States.
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  And we hope that he'll take those seriously. And, and we hope that as a country that we really
• 23:07
  repent before God for the way that we have treated our pretty born neighbor. And so we hope that he'll,
• 23:14
  he'll take a lead on that. So definitely be in prayer for him. Yeah. Amen. And we have, how, how we
• 23:20
  have modeled abortion to the world and even funded overseas abortions. Oh my goodness. I'm glad
• 23:27
  President Trump, you know, put a stop to that. But how would you say this is such as biblical world
• 23:33
  view? I'm looking at the behind me world view matters podcast. How, how would you respond to
• 23:39
  Christians? Well, meaning or ignorant? Christians who say, well, gosh, Bradley, this is such a
• 23:46
  political issue. I don't think we should be involved with this because you hear that a lot,
• 23:50
  unfortunately. Well, does God speak to it? You know, I mean, open up your Bible and read, does God
• 23:59
  speak to this issue? Do they speak to the issue of murder and whether murder should be illegal?
• 24:04
  I mean, it's very clear throughout scripture that in fact, we see from the beginning in Genesis,
• 24:10
  Cain murders his brother Abel and God says, I will deal with Cain and he punishes him. He doesn't,
• 24:16
  he doesn't, you know, delegate that to it's a mankind to that kind of civil government. But then
• 24:21
  later, after the 1600 years later, after the earth filled with violence, a God brings the flood
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  and then we have Noah and the God now gives a new command and God says, whoever sheds man's blood
• 24:32
  by man should his blood be shed for in the image of God as he made man. And God then delegates,
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  this is the very first institution of civil government. We see in scripture, God delegates it
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  specifically for the purpose of protecting innocent life, justice for the innocent. And that's repeated
• 24:50
  in the, for people that say, well, I got to see it in the New Testament before I'm going to believe it.
• 24:54
  In the New Testament, we have, you know, God saying that be subject to the governing authorities
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  for they do not exercise the sword and vein. They don't bear the sword and vein, you know, but,
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  but they do it to punish evil doers. Well, murdering, especially murdering the most innocent is
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  most evil act that we can, that we can perform. And so this is absolutely the role of civil
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  government. This is absolutely part of loving your neighbor as yourself is to want the same
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  laws to protect you and keep people from coming in and hurting you to also want those same laws
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  to protect others. Man, you know, Satan is done. I don't want to give him too much credit here,
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  because it's evil. It's demonic. There's these agendas, especially murdering preborn babies
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  or euthanasia or, you know what I mean, but man, they've done a great job by changing the language
• 25:48
  and changing the choice, reproductive freedom, you know, women's rights, all these different
• 25:56
  things and they sound good. But the bottom line is, you said it, is it murder? Are you taking an
• 26:03
  innocent life in the preborn human life? I think, isn't that the bottom line or am I seeing this
• 26:10
  differently? Yeah, it is. It's absolutely that. And in fact, it's something that God even
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  calls something like the worst form of murder. It's what's called child sacrifice. Child sacrifice,
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  which God explicitly says that he hates. And people talk about making abortion unthinkable.
• 26:27
  The Bible even says that God says it's talking about child sacrifice. He says, this is something
• 26:32
  that didn't even enter my mind. Right now, I think obviously God knows the future and right
• 26:36
  ordains the future, but he's, I think he's speaking hyperbolicly there that like this is,
• 26:43
  this is unbelievable. You know, that people would commit this series of sin. But you know,
• 26:49
  when we have sin, the answer isn't to tell people, wow, you're a victim. You know, you're a victim
• 26:56
  of that. The answer is to tell people, no, you've sinned. You have committed murder. But going back
• 27:01
  to what we talked about earlier, but there is redemption in Christ. Yes. But we don't get to the
• 27:06
  message of redemption when we're telling everybody that they're just victims. Yeah. Amen, brother.
• 27:11
  Thank you. So the best place to get to the abortion-free
• 27:15
  um, docu-series, is that on YouTube or that you can get through that through your website too?
• 27:20
  Yeah. A YouTube foundation to abolish abortion YouTube or if you want it even easier,
• 27:24
  you can just go to abortionfree.com. Awesome. Abortionfree.com or the foundation to abolish abortion
• 27:32
  website friends. It's f-a-a dot life. Bradley Pierce, thank you so much. It went by way too fast.
• 27:38
  I knew it would appreciate your time today, brother. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been great
• 27:42
  you're most welcome. All right, guys. Thank you. Share that website and that docu-series. And these
• 27:47
  are things that we need to understand and know how to respond to in our culture of death. But hopefully
• 27:53
  that'll change, right? God bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.