Latest / REALLY JEWISH with Oliver Joseph / REALLY JEWISH SE2:E1 - 'New Year resolutions, nedarim'
Transcript
- Yair Eldan: You are supposed to go through any Commitment if you actually said it and it came out of your mouth and I think those both ends the powerful you know, commitment before God, which is amazing when you think about it, can drive you. I mean, from the outside, and I remember as a kid there is something to it. And the other hand, the anxiety about it, I mean, if God actually heard me, what will happen if I won't, you know... be up to my commitment. Oliver Joseph: if we are talking about annulling those vows, similar to what Yair what you mentioned earlier, we're gonna have a whole community that thinks that language is meaningless because if you're have already annulled the vows for the year ahead and you're gonna at the end of the year annul the vows from the year past, then language has no meaning when you make promises or commitments to people. there's also like a kind of living among the peoples kind of trope that if the anti Semites or the people of the generation who are outside the Jewish community learn of this conde dress where everybody turns around and says, We're not gonna do anything that we say we're gonna do, and we're gonna have once a year we're gonna annull all the vows we've made, then also our relationship with the outside world in terms of the words that we speak also becomes very much at threat. And the Jewish people start to become people who aren't trustworthy. Yair Eldan: I say to myself, religious people have really good mechanisms to cope with, you know, uncertainty, whether it's uncertainty about the future and their aspiration for a better future, whether it's uncertainty about the present and things that going on in their lives. And they have these mechanisms of saying something, of approaching God in a way, and saying, listen, God, universe, whatever, it's, please, in secular words, please give me control on my life. And I will gain control on my life if I have this vow, because I feel that I have. sort sort of influence on the reality and You know, there's kind of an envy in me in this attitude And I myself as I told you I mean usually I sometimes I go back to this mechanism and I use it. Oliver Joseph: we are Really Jewish. Welcome to our conversation about what it is to be Really Jewish. We're starting season two just in the day in the week before Rosh Hashanah. It's wonderful to be here. We are Oliver Joseph, I'm a rabbi, I'm religious and Yair Eldan Jerusalem who's secular. We are two sides of the Jewish coin, one in Israel and one in the UK. And we're talking about big topics of the day and what it is to be Really Jewish in the 21st century and what Judaism is. Welcome to our next leg of Really Jewish. we're talking about a really Crucial and key perhaps topic to start the year with. we're talking about vows, where they appear in the Jewish tradition, making promises, I guess ultimately to God, but also to one another, and whether they're good or bad, I guess, in the context of tapestry of Jewish life. Yeah, welcome back, nice to have you with us. Yair Eldan: Thank you for having me. Oliver Joseph: Yeah, I mean Yair Eldan: Hmm. Oliver Joseph: so exciting to be starting this this new episode. this new season. Tell us a little bit about this question of vows and where we find you today. Yair Eldan: Listen, when I look up on the Bible's attitude toward vows, obviously, as a lot of researchers showed, there's ambivalence. On the one hand, the Bible is quite against vows. mean, that's because the world, the biblical world is a world where the spoken word was taken seriously, in opposed to our world, where words are scattered everywhere. And in that world, the Bible says, listen, be careful. I mean, if you are not careful... you will have to sacrifice your daughter as happened to Yiftach in Judges. mean, he vowed that the first person that will come out of his door, the door of his house after his victory, he will sacrifice. And it was his daughter. And so the Bible is taking it very seriously. So on the one hand, I love it because there is something very serious about commitment. And as I grow older, I find myself more hesitant when I speak. I read slowly, mean it's slower than before, and I take more seriously everything that comes out of my mouth. I think it comes with the age. So the attitude of the Bible here is nice, but still there is another attitude you can see in Psalms, the poet, I think he says something positive about vows because there's something natural about it when you're in stress. When I think that's for me, as a kid, remember, a religious kid, I remember I was asking God a lot of requests and often I would say, listen, if I will get this and that, I would put on feeling every day. I would pray. I would do things that will please you. I think it's a very natural thing and obviously to take yourself too seriously, everything that comes out of your mouth is also not a good way of life. as a secular I try to balance between taking myself seriously but not seriously enough and know... knowing my limits as a human being and sometimes I find myself as a secular saying please, please non-existent God if it will happen I will and when I say I will I stop you know I don't get to the end of it but the whole process of vows is still alive in me what's your take on it? Oliver Joseph: No, it's r I mean we just in those few words of introduction there is seems to be so many different component parts. in the biblical discussion there's two core parts of Torah which deal with deal with vows. So one is the Dvarim in chapter twenty three and earlier that in chapter thirty in Numbers. And it seems to be the first one, Numbers is talking about specifically like refraining from certain acts. or doing yeah ref refraining from certain things like making a vow to refrain from we're gonna eat cheesecake for the rest of the year or and then the flip of that in the Devarim passage which I turned to first it seems to be talking about like making offerings specifically in the temple or yeah specifically in the temple temple offerings or maybe in the ancient Mikdash in the ancient moving temple in the desert. but you're specifically talking about also two different component parts. One is making vows at time of stress. And when I thought about this topic for now for Rosh Hashanah I was thinking about like the number of people and maybe this is like less in the realm of Jewish community, but I think also includes the Jewish community of people who start the new year, Rosh Hashanah with lots of like broad and varied ambition for the year ahead. And you say I'm gonna do this this year, and this is what I'm gonna achieve and realize now. You know, like you say, from now on I'm gonna put the fit on every morning, or from now on I'm gonna give more Tzedakah or from now on I'm gonna do more learning. Like in the kind of in the Jewish world. A and maybe that's okay. Maybe making, you know, a lot of it's to do with like I'm gonna lose a kilo or I'm gonna lose five kilos or I'm gonna stick to my diet, like that's the kind of classic. New years resolution of this generation of eating better or exercising more. but then there's also the stress part which I definitely relate to like when my mum was ill specifically like as an a you know a 17, 18 year old kid, like I'll do this and this and this and I won't do that and that and that just make mum better. And it's there's something of it because I guess the rabbis are vary of the listen, the Torah says don't make vows ultimately. But also inside the language of the Torah as if the people will make vows. So then how do we kind of reconcile that? so in that vein to know, because kind of a very it's somewhat a confusing topic. I wanna Draw attention to the fact maybe this occasion of Rosh Hashanah that maybe it's okay to make vows. Maybe it's okay to have high and good aspirations for the year ahead. But I also wanna draw attention to the fact that there's a danger, especially in the terrain of young people, especially in the peop terrain of people who like immediately experiencing stress and strain and trauma. There's a danger in the aspect of vows and vowing. And maybe we should avoid. Both parts entirely. Yair Eldan: Hmm. No, I think I'm in. When I say there's something natural about it, think, I mean, when I look at the phenomena with secular eyes, I say to myself, religious people have really good mechanisms to cope with, you know, uncertainty, whether it's uncertainty about the future and their aspiration for a better future, whether it's uncertainty about the present and things that going on in their lives. And they have these mechanisms of saying something, of approaching God in a way, and saying, listen, God, universe, whatever, it's, please, in secular words, please give me control on my life. And I will gain control on my life if I have this vow, because I feel that I have. sort sort of influence on the reality and You know, there's kind of an envy in me in this attitude And I myself as I told you I mean usually I sometimes I go back to this mechanism and I use it. I mean I try to think about my secular cope with uncertainty and In a way, is no, there is something, I think anxiety and secularism go together in a way. There is something more acute about reality when you don't have religion mechanisms. Oliver Joseph: but there was also the possibility you know the News Resolution isn't explicitly versus it's not necessarily a vow in the classical sense. A vow in the classical sense Yair Eldan: Sure. Oliver Joseph: is that you you make a promise to God, and that if you don't fulfil that promise, you are then reneging on that vow. I don't think the news resolution has that kind of quality of vowing that we kind of make some kind of divine promise. But I think in a secular context you can use the the resolution, the kind of in English we say, the resolution, which is in some or another just you know, achieving what you were describing, promoting and producing some kind of certainty in terrain where there is uncertainty. So as you enter the new year, you know, whether we feel it or whether we don't feel it, whether it's Rosh Hashanah or whether it's December thirty first now coming up twenty twenty six. There's a certain like anxiety. You're standing on the edge of the precipice of newness, a whole year a whole twelve months ahead of you that you don't necessarily know of or control. I think you're right that when you make that vow, that somehow you are reclaiming some of that control. There's an interesting Machloket which Nechama Leibowitz presents on this parsha, ki tetzei presents on this one par shaky tetse, which describes vows in Dvarim and she presents seemingly a present a Machloket between Mahatma Gandhi and rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch which is really cool 'cause I'm not sure if I would have the bravery on Really Jewish to quote Mahatma Gandhi but if Naham Levitz is doing it one of the classical twentieth twentieth century Darchin and commentators on on the parshat, then I can definitely do that. And Mahatma Gandhi kind of saying similar to what where you're at, which is, you know, when we make a vow, we reclaim our activism. We reclaim our there's a word for it, our agency. And we lay claim to the terrain which is the promise that we have and the possibility that we have of our own agency, of our own decision making to do, to act, to be brave, to pursue, to persist. And I love that. I love that description in Mahatma Gandhi's autobiography. The flip is clearly Samson Raphael Hirsch and Mahatma Gandhi aren't talking to one another or they're not that many years apart. Mahatma Gandhi Samson Raphael Hirsch a nineteenth century new orthodox rabbi says the critique that he has of vows is that you live in the future too much in the future, and you are kind of betraying the present. The present is where the rabbis I think want you to live because if I put on to fill in this morning, thumbs Yair Eldan: Mm-hmm Oliver Joseph: up, OJ. I decided at that moment at 10 to 9. That maybe ten past nine, that I was gonna put on to fill-in. and I said you know, words of Shama. Rather than portray, you know, projecting forward that I'm gonna do that for the whole year, I decided to do it then, and then I did it. And there's no danger kind of in that equation of deciding to do that. And you can take that to a secular act as well. I decided you know not to shout at my children, not to shout at my wife, or I decided not to I decided I was gonna cook dinner, I'd cook dinner rather than like. Projecting that forward into the uncertainty of the year ahead. I did it then and now. And I like that too. I mean I like both stances. I like the Gandhi stance and I like the the Samson Raphael Hirsch Hirst stance. but both speak to different parts of the soul, different parts of our own human agency. Yair Eldan: I think there's something to it. mean, obviously, being in the state of a person who was vowing, you can say that, who vows, that he is not in the present. I think that's... You can say that. But at the same time, mean, the uncertainty of life is accompanying you, whether you are suffering, mean, present suffer, or you're just existential for a second, and you understand that there is something that is... There is mystery in life that you don't understand and maybe you won't understand in your lifetime. I mean, the uncertainty is present. So I see what you mean. You try to say that they're both relevant to our life, both the attitude, the positive attitude towards vowels and the negative one. But I just want to stress that... there is a difference and I don't know Mahatma Gandhi's angle on it. didn't read his words. But when you don't have a God in your life, when the vow is actually a commitment that you actually, it's towards yourself. There's something about it that is different, I think, in the world of vows. The presence of God, the fact that there is an entity that actually heard your commitment, and it's not only you. I think there is something to it. And the one had very powerful, and on the other hand, it's very scary. I think that's why the rabbis actually invented the ability to actually, you know... Unbind yourself from a vow that I mean the biblical the Bible doesn't say anything about it You are supposed to go through any Commitment if you actually said it and it came out of your mouth and I think those both ends the powerful you know, commitment before God, which is amazing when you think about it, can drive you. I mean, from the outside, and I remember as a kid there is something to it. And the other hand, the anxiety about it, I mean, if God actually heard me, what will happen if I won't, you know... be up to my commitment. That could be devastating for a person. And I think a secular person is more... I don't want to give grace, but in my life I feel that there is something more balanced about my commitments. I understand that... I have commitment, but sometimes my commitment could be too onerous. In my business, in the legal arena, you don't accept any promises to be fulfilled. There are promises that even the law understands that you couldn't fulfill because there was something that you couldn't actually handle. There is something about the secular world that on the one hand is not so powerful but I mean there is something more human about it or more adapted to the human nature in a way don't you think Oliver Joseph: that's it's very interesting. So just say that a little bit more about the legal context, because I this is an area that I don't know about. So if I promise to give you a million pounds, or if I promise to give you four houses, the maybe four houses is a better example. I promise to give you four houses and I definitely don't own four houses, you're telling me the Israeli law would not permit me to make that promise. Go on. Yair Eldan: No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I mean, let's go before the legal arena. There's the moral aspect of it. And obviously in morality, you have to fulfill your promises. I mean, that's basic. And Immanuel Kant actually, you know, famous saying that... If you don't fulfill, sorry, your promise, there is something of, there is a contradiction in your will, because on the one hand, you want to live in a world where promises are kept, and then the other one, you actually, you know, destroy it with your own hands. So is there a contradiction in your will? And Kant doesn't like contradictions in the will. It says something very deep about the morality of of the decision. I mean, from a moral point of view, you have to fulfill your promises, but even from a moral point of view, you don't have to fulfill any promise, right? Oliver Joseph: then what what you describing in terms of if I overpromise what's the what's the moral Yair Eldan: No, but if you promise something that you can't from the start fulfill, obviously it's not moral. But if you promise something that you are intending to fulfill, but there is a tsunami, there is an earthquake, you can't do it. I mean, Oliver Joseph: right. Yair Eldan: but in the Bible... There is no exceptions. I'm just saying I mean in front of God if you have vowed something That's what the Bible says you shouldn't secular secularize I mean in a way but I take it to to heal on to I mean, but it's you shouldn't you shouldn't Impure in a way your saying From the Bible's point of view while in the world we do accept that there are commitments that you can't fulfill. And obviously... Oliver Joseph: So just to take us back for a second, Yair Eldan: Yeah. Oliver Joseph: did you want to finish your thought there? Yeah, yeah. Go on. Yair Eldan: I thought about a conversation we had about marriage, and when I think about it, it's the same. I mean, you go into the relationship. You have the wedding and you actually intend to live all your life with the same woman and she intends to live her life with you. But sometimes, know, things change. So I won't blame people to actually say, listen, it was right and it's lovely to have this commitment. But obviously this commitment is not from my secular point of view. It's not like a religious commitment, which binds you in a way and for me it's not a surprise that all religions when they think about marriage they have the concept of God as part of it right I mean he's like a witness to this commitment which makes it much more complicated and onerous in a way Oliver Joseph: So it's interesting just to break down some of the the religious terminology because in the modern parlance often in the religious communities people say blineda which is I say to you, Yair we're gonna play tennis next Thursday. We live in different countries. I don't think Yair plays tennis. Maybe he does. I definitely don't play tennis. So we're definitely not gonna play Yair Eldan: Not anymore. Oliver Joseph: tennis, but I would say after those words, Bli neder Because I've made a commitment to Yair, but I want to make explicit. This is normal language in particular from communities, I want to make explicit that I'm not making a vow to him. So that if for whatever reason we don't play tennis next Thursday, I am not bringing upon myself any kind of sin by not having fulfilled that vow. So in that terrain. the rabbis also want to make clear that a nedere comes in the context of specific language, that you specifically say this is a nedere and I'm doing X. we then have, you know, just to bring some of the popular terminology to the to bear into this topic, we then have a service which is called Kol Nidre, which is also part of the reason why this is this topic is here. At the beginning of the year, which is next week on Yom Kippur, the week after Rosh Hashanah ten days after Rosh Hashanah on the tenth of Tishrei, we have the opening service of Yom Kippur, which is ultimately the day of repentance, and the day where we do vidui and we, you know, try and reach forgiveness for all of our sins. have a service called Kol Nidre Kol Nidre specifically is all about the annulment of vows. So if I made vows in the year past, which I hadn't fulfilled, then I through by way of this service, I try to relinquish them. And all more so the language of Kol Nidre which is actually a probably the shortest service of the year, but in terms of liturgy, but is language is repeated again and again, we also annul the vows for the year ahead, which is interesting because my understanding is that rabbinically the sages of many generations tried to throw this service out. It was too dangerous. First of all, rabbis believe that, like you say, biblically if you make a vow, you should fulfill the vow. Secondly, if we are talking about annulling those vows, similar to what Yair what you mentioned earlier, we're gonna have a whole community that thinks that language is meaningless because if you're have already annulled the vows for the year ahead and you're gonna at the end of the year annul the vows from the year past, then language has no meaning when you make promises or commitments to people. there's also like a kind of living among the peoples kind of trope that if the anti Semites or the people of the generation who are outside the Jewish community learn of this conde dress where everybody turns around and says, We're not gonna do anything that we say we're gonna do, and we're gonna have once a year we're gonna annull all the vows we've made, then also our relationship with the outside world in terms of the words that we speak also becomes very much at threat. And the Jewish people start to become people who aren't trustworthy. So there's all sorts of different layers of this topic. Which have become very, very complex. but ultimately I wanna I want to have a community. Let's talk about the personal. I want to have a community similar to where you started, Yair where what I say counts and matters. And maybe that's outside of the terrain of the technical language of Ned there. Maybe it's appropriate to say, Bli neder I'm not making this as a commitment or a vow. But ultimately, when I say to you, Yair That we're gonna start this project called Really Jewish Together. I want that to be to mean something. And I'm gonna do the best to the best of my ability, I'm gonna fulfill that promise and commitment to you. And I also wanna, if we're talking about marriage for a second, I wanna say that I'm gonna build this relationship with my partner and I'm gonna do my very best for to fulfill That promise and to fulfill that commitment, whether I see it in the context of a relationship with God, or whether I see that in context of my relationship with tradition and the this ancient faith, or that's just my understanding of marriage in a modern context, I want to try to fulfill that, to live up to that. so I guess in that broader context, I'm somewhere in the middle. I think living by your word is. really crucial and also something that we need to take great care over. Yair Eldan: Listen, Nidrei is... I think there is something... Obviously I agree with you. There is something about the commitment to the word and the religious notion that I go into the next year clean of my last year's vows. I can understand that. about Kol Nidrei, Kol Nidrei has... I mean, it's a prayer, it's a saying about our vows, but there is a broader... context. mean it's a prayer where I think if I would you know try and risk myself I would say that it's the most popular spread out prayer in the Jewish world. I mean when I go to Kol Nidrei, I didn't go to the synagogue in the last years, but when I went I remember I felt that no matter what time it takes place. mean, in America it takes place a few hours later. In Australia it already took place. But I feel that the whole Jewish world is actually together with it. And it's interesting that it's all about vows when I think about it. if you ask me, you can see a lot of secular people joining to this prayer. There is something about Jewish identity that is embedded in this time when you enter the day of atonement. And if you ask me, I would say it's the feeling that you start a new year together and the start is fresh. And that's a very deep... I would say a basic human need in a way to start afresh every year to feel that you have a community that actually goes with you as an individual in this process, which is very, very nice, very nice. But I'm just saying, Oliver, something that I actually noted in one of our last episodes. I mean, just there is something about this whole notion of you can untie the vow. That's what the Rabbi says. It's an invention of the rabbis. The rabbi invented it very wisely because they understood that people cannot live in a world where they vowed and they didn't actually... manage to fulfill the vow and now they are waiting for God's wrath to fall on them. So they understood that they have to actually untie it. But when they did it very wisely, There is something negative about it because they gained a lot of power. Because a person who actually has to untie the vow, how do you untie a vow? You come to the Rabbi and the Rabbi says, listen, go back to the moment when you vowed. Now, do you still want to vow? Do you still think that your stress, your anxiety, deserve this commitment? If the person says no, that's it. But then again, the Rabbi is exposed. to the intimate details of the vow, of the situation, and he gains a lot of power over the person. So... I think there is something negative about it. A person is actually putting his privacy, his whole world in the hands of not a psychologist, of a religious person, which I'm not sure is equipped to deal with the situation. Oliver Joseph: It's interesting 'cause when you say that I think of kind of the Catholic version of confession, Yair Eldan: Right. Oliver Joseph: when you go to the priest and you actively confess. And I'm not a Catholic, but my understanding of the Catholic Church is that the in the context of the Catholic Church that the priest has a lot more power than anything close, certainly, to a modern rabbi might have. But the description you're Yair Eldan: Mm-hmm. Oliver Joseph: making in the context of Nidarim Is perhaps one example that I can think of. Listen, there are other examples where rabbinic power exists without doubt, depending on the community you're in, and depending on the generation. But there's one example where the rabbi has profound power. no, it's interesting. Listen, the part of the conidre ceremony, I love the description that you make of the musicality of Condi Dre. For those listening the fly on the wall, the person listening in to the Jewish community conversation by way of Really Jewish, Condidre is has to be one of the most popular Shu services of the year. synagogue service of the year has to be some of the most popular music of the year for many, many different communities. It's a beautifully sung service in many different communities with all the different tropes and Nusach of the different communities from across the Jewish world. but you're right that it's more than that. it often feels that people are coming to Shaw for Conidre to listen to the music, but the meaning of the service is kind of disconnected from people showing up, which is partly true. But the description that you make of the kind of clean slate is true because somehow, by way of that service, we are freed and refreshed in the aspect of Malbin, like the kind of what the whitening or the or the clean slate that we are Yair Eldan: Mm-hmm. Oliver Joseph: That we are offered from Yom Kippur more broadly, but specifically from Kol Nidre in relation to the Neder Kol Nidre the vow, feels important. Yair let's try and for the last couple of minutes just take it to the personal where it leaves us for the year ahead. I can say for myself But I think you know, making commitments to the for the year is really important. it does meet a human need, which is to kind of delve into the uncertainty of the year ahead and try and, you know, to the mast whatever the expression is, to say what I'm gonna do in an active sense in the year ahead. as a religious person, I guess Yair Eldan: something about your head. Oliver Joseph: it has I have to assert that shouldn't be a ned there. There shouldn't be a vow, but there is something really important about like articulating internally and externally to loved ones and family and friends and work colleagues, like what your hopes are. And so I guess for me, I want to do that, but I also also want to do it in a like a tempered way. I think the way that you describe, like I want to do it in a way that's born in reality of my own life and my capacities and what I'm actually likely and liable to do, I don't wanna also like overfill my cup like somehow like do something which is excessive and then make life just start like the year start off in a really stressful and and overbearing way. So there's it seems to be a really fine balance in this topic. It's Rosh Hashanah, it's the new year. How do we engage? I think it's crucial to have some kind of aspiration for the new year ahead. I want to start my year with hopes and dreams. And I want to, in some way or other, step into the abyss, step off the edge and say, make commitments about what the year is going to be. I guess as a rabbi I have responsibility to articulate not to do that in religious language, not to make a nedda, not to have aspiration of making a vow, but also to make possible the possibility of really committing, dreaming about what the year will have, like how I will live well, I guess in a religious context, live in... relationship with Mitzvah of Commandments of Torah and learning and dreaming for my kids and my family and my relationship. And then also, I guess it's also in that context and relation to Yom Kippur, it's also really, you know, I have strong images of Yom Kippur, the meaning and the meaningfulness of wiping the slate clean. that relates both the promises I made in the year past that relates also to the things that I've messed up on in the year gone by and this year like most years it's been messy it's been had some big highs and big lows like so I need to for my I think I'm similar in the way that I view the world psychologically to what you describe like the importance of having a fresh start is key we need that and that's okay to give that to ourselves whether it's you know whatever that looks like need both. need to wipe the slate clean. I also need the possibility of dreaming big for the year ahead. And I love that that Gandhi presentation of like, permitting for my aspiration to be lent in a positive way for the year ahead. Like it's okay to make commitments and dream big. That's part of what Gandhi was saying. Yeah, Yair Where do you take this on the cusp of the new year? Yair Eldan: Listen, you know, we're old enough to know that we don't have a clean s you know page a really clean page and the past is always present. We know that, but I agree there is something there is I mean I love this part of year because of the hope. The hope that something will, you know, be better this year. the cliche. it's so true and we need it so much in Israel now. hope for a better world of you know with no violence, not violence that we we perpetuate and not the violence against us and to be in peace and be in health and I think you know when you spoke I felt that my heart is filling with hope and it's so important and but having said that as a secular I'm just saying for me the resolution for the next year is also to cope with the uncertainty of human life. in a human way, not to be aggressive because I'm uncertain, because a lot of things are, you know, in the doubt, in in doubt. I mean even existential things. Not to be aggressive. Not to be angry. But to accept the uncertainty of human life. maybe not by vows, but by you know being more human and Be and try to be part of a community. For me it's a very it's a big challenge. You know, I also I have this image of Kol Nidre that we spoke about. And even to be with a crowd like this is it is for me a challenge these days. I'm very much into myself because of the things that happened in the last few years, because processes I myself go through. And I think that's another challenge for me to be myself but not to forget I'm part of a community. A very special one. and but in terms of commitment, I think that's a commitment I would say to commit not to commit but to actually accept the uncertainty. Oliver Joseph: No, it's interesting because then we go back to the Samson Raphael Hirsch description of the importance of the presence, present. Yair Eldan: Mm-hmm. Oliver Joseph: And I step into the present and maybe maybe even the mitzvah is acknowledgement of the uncertainty because you can only act in that moment. Yala listen, Shana tova to you and all your family and community. there and shana tova about all of our community and family here. We really grateful for our listeners to everybody who has contributed to Oi Va Voi over the lot of our first six months and we look forward to more and plenty over the next six months over the next year. In our new season. Thank you for listening to really Jewish. We welcome you here and please support us by liking posts on Instagram, Facebook, and tik tok and liking and reviewing wherever you listen to your podcast. We want to say thank you to Sophia Kogan, who's our editor and supporter of this podcast to Oi Va Voi for our outro and intro. I said that we would promote tickets here when over way has a gig coming up. So October 1 in London, you can buy tickets on dice.fm for Oi va Voi Go see them. It's on a Thursday. And continue to support us. If you want to support us financially, please get in contact and by way of Patreon, you can offer support to this podcast. We look forward to having you back. We've got loads of cool guests coming up in the next few weeks. And Yair coming up just after that. And wishing everybody shana Tovah u'metuka a good and Yair Eldan: Shannatova, Shannatova. Oliver Joseph: happy and sweet new year.