Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger, Madison Mogen And The Motive For Murder

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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger, Madison Mogen And The Motive For Murder · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. As
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: the Brian Koberger investigation was unfolding, one of the main
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: questions that we had here on the podcast was how
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger ever met any of these girls. And once
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: we found out about Maddie Mogan and her working at
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the Mad Greek and what People Magazine had said about
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger going to the Mad Greek, I've always thought
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: that that's where Brian Koberger had his first contact with
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Maddie Mogan. And I think from there, that's where things
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: spiraled out of control. Now that Mad Greek restaurant is
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: no longer open up there in Idaho, by the way.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: And when this was all first going down, there was
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, including the owners from that Mad
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Greek restaurant, who denied the reports that Brian Kohlberger had
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: ever been there. But I had people reach out to me,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: people who had worked there, saying that that wasn't the case,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger had been in there multiple times. Well,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: now there's a new book coming out by James Patterson.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And in this book that was released on Monday, they're
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: going down that same road. And according to the author,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: James Patterson, the most likely introduction Brian Koberger had to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: any of these girls or victims was at that restaurant.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to dive into an
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: article from ABC News and talk a little bit more
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: about Brian Koberger, this new book, and the Mad Greek. Headline,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: new book on University of Idaho murders sheds light on
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's potential motive. This article was authored by Kena
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Whitworth and Emily Shapiro. A new book on the University
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: of Idaho murders attempts to lift the veil on the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: secrecy that shrouded the case, revealing what those closest to
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the students believe was the motive behind the admitted killer
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's brutal crimes. And remember, today there is a
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: hearing about the gag order. So we'll know a lot
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: more about if the gag order is going to be
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: lifted anytime soon or not. And at this point, with
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: sentencing being the only thing left, it's time to go.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: That gag order has to be dropped. And I thought
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: that that gag order was way restrictive from the very beginning.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: And I still think so now. Look, I understand why
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: they needed it, why they used it, but I don't
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: like it. And I think they went too far with it.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And them using that gag order in the manner they
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: did created a bunch of fertile ground for a bunch
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: of morons to come up with a bunch of bullshit.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: And as we all know, that's exactly what they did.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Best-selling author James Patterson and investigative reporter Vicki Ward teamed
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: up for a new book release on Monday, The Idaho 4,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: An American Tragedy. The book not only poses a potential motive,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: but also sheds light on Kohlberger's life before the killings
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and follows multiple points of view of the timeline of
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the crime that sent shockwaves through Moscow and skyrocketed to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: national attention. And I remember waking up the day after,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and I looked at my girlfriend and I said, this
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: story is going to be huge. This is going to
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: be a gigantic story, especially considering the circumstances in which
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: this went down. We have this little sleepy college town.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We have four college kids just sleeping in their house.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: They get murdered for no reason. Yeah, that's going to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: be a huge story. Well, I had no idea just
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: how huge it was going to become. For people who
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: have followed this story, we wanted to give them closure,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Patterson told ABC News. What he really means is he
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: wanted to make some money, but that's cool. We'll take
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: some closure. Roommates Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, and Zanna Kernodle,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and Kernodle's boyfriend Ethan Chapin, were all stabbed to death
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: at the girls' off-campus house in the early hours of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: November 13, 2022. Patterson and Ward conducted over 300 interviews
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: with people who have ties to the case, including family
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and friends who believe Mogan was the target. And I've
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: said that now for a while. At first I thought
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it was Kaylee, and that's because we were hearing the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: reports about the damage that was done to Kaylee's body
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: by the killer. But it turns out that it was
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan. At least that's what it looks like. And
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the rage that we saw with Kaylee... was Brian Koberger,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: bitch ass Brian Koberger, taking out his anger that Kaylee
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: ruined his time with Maddie. He didn't expect Kaylee to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: be there. He thought it was going to be Maddie alone.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: He was going to be able to have whatever fucked
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: up disgusting fantasy played out. But that wasn't the case.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Kaylee happened to be there and it threw Brian Koberger's
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: plan into chaos. And that's why you see the overkill
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: when it comes to Kaylee. That also led, by the way,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: to Zanna and Ethan being murdered. Because if it was
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: just Maddie, if she was there by herself, Kohlberger would
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: have did what he did, and he would have crept out.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: There would have been no FBI, no gigantic investigation like
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: we saw, and he probably would have got away with it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: The problem for Kohlberger was that he wasn't expecting Kaylee there,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and when he saw her there, and the fight ensued...
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Things went south, but I think one of the biggest
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: tells when we're talking about the crime scene and the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: state of the body is that there was overkill with Kaylee,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and that leads me to believe that Maddie was the target.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: There was consensus that it was Maddie that Kohlberger was
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: going for, and the victim's families, I think, would all
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: agree with that, Ward said, and I think that's probably
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the consensus with anybody who's followed the case at this point,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: that Maddie Mogan was the target of Brian Kohlberger. But obviously,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: it's still speculation. We don't have confirmation one way or
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the other. But the evidence certainly points us in that direction.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: A Moscow police alleged Kohlberger's cell phone records show his
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: phone appeared to be close to the victim's house on
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: at least 12 occasions between August and the night of
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the murders, almost always late at night. Yeah, because he
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: was casing the joint. If you listen to my episodes
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: from early on, I basically called all of this. This
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: is what I said he was doing. Bro was casing
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the joint, was making sure that he had the right,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: you know, pathway, had the right house, knew their movements,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: knew what time they were going to be awake, what
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: their habits were. That's what he was doing. And it
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: reminded me of the shit that Francis Dollarhide was up
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to in the book Red Dragon. If you've ever read
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the book or saw the movie Red Dragon, you know
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that he would go and, you know, stake out these houses.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: He'd sit out there for hours on end watching the families.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: And that's what Brian Koberger was doing when it comes
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: to King Road. And I think that was relatively obvious
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: from the beginning. And the reason he was always there
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: late at night is because that's when he planned to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: commit his crime late at night. So he's going to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: go and make sure the whole scenario is right. Make
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: sure the situation is acceptable. That way, when the time
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: comes to carry out his disgusting ass bitch made attack,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: he has all his ducks in a row. The book
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: described what it calls a recurring nightmare the victim friend
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Emily Allent had after the murders. Allent said she imagined
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that the now-admitted killer went to the restaurant where Mogan worked,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: expressed romantic interest in her, and was rejected, prompting him
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to retaliate. When the friends are told that the guy
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: who murdered their friend is this guy Brian Koberger, they
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: don't recognize his photo, they can't put it together, Ward said.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: That's when Emily said, The only explanation that she and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend Hunter Johnson could come up with is the
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: story that we tell as the story of her dream
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger targeted Maddie and that he doesn't know
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the exact details, but that's her best guess. And yeah,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I think that that's a great guess. I truly believe
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: that Maddie was the target for all the reasons we discussed.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But with that said, I surely remain open to any
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: kind of evidence or any kind of information that leads
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: us somewhere else. But as of right now, I don't
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: think we've seen anything that would lead us to believe
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: that anybody else was the target besides Maddie. And I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: think one of the tells is, where did he go
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: right away? Right to Maddie's room. And if he was
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: taking the house out, then he most assuredly knew where
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Maddie's room was, what Maddie was up to. And according
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to reports, one of the places where they think Brian
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Koberger was watching the house from, he had a direct
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: line into Maddie's window. So I think that the evidence
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: is overwhelming that Maddie was the target. But we just
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: don't have that confirmation from any authorities yet. So of
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: course it's all still speculation. Prosecutors said Mogan was the
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: first of the four killed. A knife sheath with Koberger's
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: DNA was found under her body, officials said. The book
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: also delves into Koberger's life as a criminology PhD student
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: at nearby Washington State University at the time of the killings. Koberger,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the criminologist, had such training for this and he almost
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: committed the perfect crime, Patterson said. Had he not left
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the knife sheath, he probably wouldn't have got caught. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that's the truth. This dirty rotten son of a bitch
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: thought he was just going to kill Maddie, and he
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: would have got away with it. And we all know
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: he would have went and killed somebody else. But knowing
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: what we know, if he didn't leave that sheath, bro
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: would have got away with it. And that's terrifying to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: think about. In the wake of the shocking crime as
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: police searched for a suspect, one of the key sources
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of information was a surviving roommate, Dylan, who told friends,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: including Alant, what she saw on the night of the murders.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It was really through Emily that we learned of what
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: sort of roommate Dylan had gone through, Ward said. It
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: sounded so surreal to them all because she said he
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: had a black mask and he looked like he was
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: carrying a black vacuum. And they're sitting there thinking, who
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: could this be? And what on earth has happened? And
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: we got a lot of questions answered as far as
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the motivation of the 911 call and when it was
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: made and why somebody said that there were unconscious people there.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: So in that new documentary that's on Amazon. the Idaho documentary,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: it goes into the details of the kids who actually
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: came to the house and made the phone call and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: it gives you more context. So if you get a chance,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I would say watch that documentary. It doesn't really add
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: too much, but you get to hear from people who
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: were actually there and from the kids who made the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: phone call. And that was the context that we were
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: missing for all these years. Kohlberger was arrested nearly seven
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: weeks after the murders. After maintaining his innocence for more
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: than two years, on July 2nd, Kohlberger admitted to the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: quadruple killings in court and pleaded guilty to all counts.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: He'll be sentenced to four consecutive life sentences on the
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: four first-degree murder counts and the maximum penalty of 10
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: years on the burglary count. Now as families prepare for
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: next week's sentencing hearing on July 23rd, Patterson and Ward
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: are hoping to give readers a true sense of the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: four victims. You will meet Ethan and Kaylee and Maddie
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and Zanna, Patterson added. You will meet them and you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: will feel them as human beings. And that's great, that's
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: what it should be on. Once this son of a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: bitch Brian Kohlberger is sentenced, we should forget about his
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: bitch ass and never even think about him again. Unless
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: there's a helicopter ride coming, and if there is... I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: want to do the pushing. I spoke to Stacey Chapin,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Ethan's mom, and she did say, which was wonderful to hear,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that she's so glad that this book exists because it
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: means that they're not forgotten, Ward said. It's a tribute
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to them and their lives. And that's awesome to hear.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Because it should be about the victims. From here on out,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: that's what it should be about. About Maddie. About Zanna.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: About Ethan. About Kaylee. And fuck this piece of shit
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger. I mean, I'm sure everybody wants to take
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: this guy apart piece by piece. So as far as
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I'm concerned, once we get as much information as we
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: can get out of him, then his bitch ass should
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: be locked under the prison and never heard from ever again.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.