Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #370: Joanna Hayes-UCLA | From First Hurdles to Leading the Bruins

Transcript

#370: Joanna Hayes-UCLA | From First Hurdles to Leading the Bruins · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:02
You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
0:05
with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
0:12
in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
0:16
extraordinary message for Gil Athletics Connections.
0:21
You're back here on the Guild Connections podcast.
0:23
I typically, you know, if you're a repeat listener, you know, I
0:25
go to this like 2 to 3 minute long intro, but I don't have
0:28
that much time and I've got a banger of a guest.
0:32
We have worked hard to get her on the show.
0:34
My schedule, It's all been all my fault.
0:36
Her schedule. We finally met up.
0:38
You've seen the title of this. Help me welcome the head coach
0:41
of the UCLA, the wise and wonderful Miss Joanna Hayes.
0:44
Joanna, welcome to the show. Hello.
0:46
Thank you. Thank you.
0:46
Thanks for having me. You know something I learned and
0:49
I'm dumb. You're going to laugh at me when
0:50
I tell you this. I thought, OK, remember I went
0:55
to school, high school and College in the state of Alabama.
0:57
So you know, right, OK, got it. I always thought of this big
1:03
UCLAUSC battle that USC was the big academic school because it
1:07
was the private school. And I thought UCLA was just the
1:10
normal, nothing bad, but just, you know, it's the normal state
1:12
school. And a few years ago, one of my
1:15
teammates who was a two time Division One national champion
1:18
Jalen Throw like he's a smart guy.
1:19
He was like, Oh yeah, UCLA is like top five in the world.
1:22
And I was like, what you mean USC?
1:23
And he goes no, no UCLA. And so I started looking.
1:25
I was like, holy crap, UCLA is a academic institution?
1:30
I had no clue about that. Yeah, we're, I'm I, I'm always
1:34
joking Like I think we're like you say, like things for Ivy
1:36
League. We might be at this point, but
1:38
it is. It is.
1:39
I mean, it's high academia. It's great.
1:41
I mean, they're they're classes of grades.
1:43
Education is amazing. You can do anything with this
1:45
degree, but it's really hard to get in.
1:48
And I tell people it's harder to get in than it is to get out
1:51
because there's so much help during the process of they want
1:54
people to succeed and graduate from here by getting in.
1:58
It's it's it's very, it's hard for me to be a coach trying to
2:01
get people in. Like, yeah, sure.
2:03
That's the standard is extremely high.
2:05
So yeah, it's, oh, we are up there.
2:06
I would have lost that, but I would have said like, Oh yeah,
2:09
you know, as long as you're a qualifier, you're good with
2:10
UCLA. And it's like, oh, no, it's you
2:13
got to be top, top academic and athletic.
2:15
So yes, I, I, I just knew when I talked to you because, you know,
2:19
we're going to find out you went to school there and you coach
2:21
there. It's like, oh, you're going to
2:22
laugh when I say I thought it was the Midland State school, if
2:25
you will. You're like, yeah, but you wish
2:27
sometimes, I'm sure. Yeah.
2:29
No, no. All right, Joanna, let's get
2:32
into. We can't wait to learn your
2:34
journey now, listener, as you, some of you pressed play because
2:37
you're like, oh man, I can't wait to hear about Joanna's
2:39
Olympic accolades and all that kind of stuff.
2:41
And man, she's done it. She's a cold medalist, guys,
2:43
come on. But there's a lot out there on
2:45
that. So we're actually going to focus
2:47
our normal and during high school, then we're going to like
2:49
just kind of jump forward to where she says it's time to get
2:52
back into it and talk about maybe the end of her career when
2:55
she started transitioning. Like, well, what am I going to
2:57
do now? And hopefully that led to
2:58
coaching. We know it eventually did.
3:00
So no athletics. I do encourage if you want to
3:02
know more about her athletics, maybe her academics are out
3:05
there too. I don't know.
3:06
But if you Google her name, she's one of these coaches.
3:08
You Google the name, man. There's a lot video Wikipedia.
3:11
She has her own Wikipedia page. So with knowing that Miss
3:15
Joanna, we're thinking, I usually, I usually say assuming
3:20
you were an athlete, but we know this part.
3:23
Knowing you were an athlete, where in the world does track
3:26
and field start for you? Track and field started 9.
3:32
I was 9 when my my dad ran when he was in high school.
3:36
My uncles ran. They were like army brats too.
3:39
So they ran over in France in different places with my
3:42
granddaddy. But yeah, now I just went out to
3:45
some track meets and just did some unattached things when it
3:48
was really became a jumper. That's what it all started.
3:51
And when I was 12, I went to like, they don't have Hershey.
3:54
They still have Hershey Nationals in Pennsylvania where
3:56
I'm from. So that was really cool to be
3:57
able to go back home. And then it was like Jesse Owens
4:01
games and I did that. It was actually at UCLA
4:03
nationals and I was, both of them were long, long jump here
4:08
and then Danny Broad jumped at Hershey.
4:09
So yeah, 9:00 and 11:12. And I just kept doing it.
4:12
So yeah, around that age. And yeah, it's kind of, I guess
4:15
it's been a big part of my life. So Track was a part of the Hayes
4:19
family? Like so you knew Track growing
4:22
up? Yeah, right.
4:24
I knew like it wasn't like you're going to run you.
4:25
I didn't really know. My dad ran and I was like little
4:28
right. But when it was like, oh, he's
4:29
like, let's go to a track meeting.
4:30
I'm like, cool, let's go to a track meeting.
4:32
My mom and dad, we just all of us just have a bunch of siblings
4:35
just went to a track meeting and it kind of just took from me and
4:38
then I found out later, oh, your oh, dad ran.
4:40
You know, you did the triple jump and then 800 and all these
4:43
things, right. And so my uncle was like, she
4:44
got it for me. I was like, OK, that's.
4:48
Kind of cool that you didn't know.
4:49
I mean, it's one thing it's very sweet to know that, you know,
4:51
you follow in your father's footsteps and all that kind of
4:52
stuff, but to know that it was more authentic, like, Oh no,
4:54
Joanna liked doing this. By the way, the family, you
4:57
know, loves track and all that kind of stuff.
4:59
That is cool. Yeah, that's how it kind of
5:01
started. You were very athletic,
5:02
obviously. Any other sports like in high
5:04
school? So well, no.
5:06
Well, yes, because I played a little soccer when I was a kid,
5:09
just one season playing with boys.
5:10
It got hit in the stomach with the ball again.
5:12
That really was that really hurt.
5:14
It was not that me. I hated it then I did I did
5:18
start playing basketball in high school.
5:20
So I did that for a few years. So I maybe three years I did
5:22
basketball and then basketball on track and then just track my
5:25
senior year cross country. That doesn't really count as not
5:28
track because my coach, but I was forced.
5:30
My coach made me do that and I'm still mad, but it worked.
5:33
It worked out. You made me do.
5:35
I love it. A lot of people have that.
5:37
Oh man, I you know I was there, not willingly at all.
5:40
The way, yeah, no, I was definitely running into protest.
5:43
What? So you mentioned Coach.
5:44
Tell us about Coach. We almost named this podcast the
5:46
Gill Shout Out podcast. Tell us about Coach and what
5:49
kind of relationship you had with them.
5:51
So Coach Leathers was my high school coach, Coach Charles
5:53
Leathers, and he was amazing. He passed away unfortunately
5:57
2018, but he is he was super influential like I was at 1 high
6:01
school at Arlington High School and then my mom actually met him
6:04
randomly. Well, we were at UCR, University
6:07
of California, Riverside and it was not too far.
6:09
We were training and my mom was taking me out to do some
6:11
training and she met him and they talked and she was like I
6:13
want you to go to North. And then I was like OK,
6:15
whatever. So I ended up moving and
6:17
transferring. So we moved all the way to go
6:19
from one side of town to the other side so I could go to
6:22
North JW North. And so that's where coach over
6:26
and I was a jumper and I. OK, that's confused me because I
6:30
thought I knew of Coach Leathers, but I was like, wait a
6:33
minute, that's California. You mentioned growing up in
6:35
Pennsylvania, so. No.
6:36
So let me start over. I was born in Pennsylvania, from
6:38
Pennsylvania. OK.
6:40
We moved to California when I was like 4.
6:42
Oh, OK, I'm. A Cali girl, but when I went to
6:45
that there was like my family was there.
6:46
They come hang out so I visit there, but yes.
6:48
Got it. OK.
6:49
Born in Pennsylvania, originally my mom from there.
6:51
But no, I'm a Cali girl, so yeah.
6:53
From Riverside. Yeah, you're good.
6:56
Yeah, and JW NI mean, I didn't know you to school there, but I
6:58
know was it Nicole didn't be. Called Danby was after me right
7:03
after me couple years and then Denby came after her.
7:06
So he was, he really, we had a lot going on.
7:09
And so Coach Leathers was actually from Los Angeles.
7:12
He coached at Compton Centennial.
7:15
So and we can, we'll tie it together.
7:16
But Jeanette Bolden, he coached Jeanette Bolden at Compton
7:19
Centennial. She was the head coach at UCLA
7:21
who recruited me. That's how I got to school.
7:23
Because I was a jumper and I went to North in January of my
7:28
junior year, they got new runaways for me and all the
7:30
things. And then we tried hurdles and I
7:32
became a hurdler like that and wait so.
7:37
You didn't even really start Hurdle until junior year of high
7:40
school. January, February of my June,
7:42
probably February my junior year of high school is the first time
7:44
I ever even thought about going over hurdle.
7:47
That's got to give a lot of coaches and we even have, you
7:50
know, decent amount of athletes who listen to the podcast like
7:53
some hope of like, it's not like you may think you're one thing
7:56
and actually you're way better suited over here.
7:59
That's so interesting. Was there any like, hurdles are
8:02
my favorite. I mean, part of my tattoos are
8:04
hurdles for crying out, but I love her.
8:05
My first e-mail address was hurdle love at Hotmail.
8:08
I love it, right? Was there any trepidation when
8:11
coach said, hey, let's try these hurdle?
8:13
I mean, you've been long jumping.
8:14
What? Yeah, I, I feel like it was kind
8:16
of a combination. I, I and I in my, you know,
8:19
tasty. I think he said, he said, let's
8:20
try. I think I said I wanted to try.
8:22
So it was one of those we really both kind of agreed on doing it.
8:25
They were just like, oh, I'm trying.
8:26
They were like sit up on the grass one day and I just like
8:28
went over there and I was like kind of cool, whatever.
8:30
Because in my first school I was like, there was a girl that's a
8:33
hurdle. And I was like, Oh my gosh,
8:34
that's crazy. I would never do that.
8:36
Oh my God, that's so crazy, right.
8:37
And here I am, oh, I like these, let's try them.
8:40
So then by the time I got to state I was doing, I was doing
8:42
hurdles and still triple jump not long anymore.
8:46
I was, yeah, I think I made a triple jump in both hurdles or
8:48
something and then like smashed the 300, the hurdle because of
8:51
the time he didn't work out. So then after that came a
8:54
hurdler, my trainer here. But yeah, he was great.
8:57
I mean, he was hardcore in terms of like we train hard, we work
9:01
hard, but he pick us up on the weekends and make us go to Mount
9:04
Rubido, the hill. That was fun, fun.
9:08
Just remember riding in his truck and it would just come in
9:10
the morning and just be out front and run down at the house
9:13
to get in the car and go. So you know, he was great.
9:15
He was super supportive with with really everything that I
9:18
did or we did, He would I remember not going to school or
9:21
whatever they said. I didn't go to Class A lot.
9:22
And he was like, if you don't go to class, you ain't going to
9:24
CIF. Like he was kind of like don't
9:26
play with me type of deal like LA like hardcore used to coach
9:29
boys. Like it's like if you want to do
9:32
these things, you're going to have to do them.
9:33
So again, super supportive, but really drew a hard line and had
9:38
us really prepared. Now the spoiled alert You become
9:42
a track coach. A really good one by the way,
9:44
But as a 161718 year old kid, we don't necessarily know, but I
9:49
was wondering like what kind of like coaching tendencies young
9:52
Joanna has when you were now coach Leathers was a
9:55
personality. So this will be interesting.
9:57
I think I know the answer, but this will be interesting.
10:00
Were you the kind of athlete like did you not in a
10:04
confrontational way, but were you asking like, hey, so how
10:06
come we did hurdles on Monday and velocity work on Tuesday or,
10:11
or did you, because I have a lot of grace for 17 year old kids.
10:14
Were you the run? Okay, I run C ball, hit ball
10:18
kind of thing. I never asked questions I was
10:21
and I never asked in college or like this is the workout.
10:25
Okay, we might be like this is stupid.
10:26
Why we do it. We would do like 500 some just
10:30
like this is dumb, but we all you know, we did it.
10:32
But I never questioned his methods.
10:36
I never questioned the goals. I I just was never that person
10:41
to I just always felt like if my coach says to do it, I do it.
10:47
You know, I never even thought of like I wonder what, why or I
10:50
wonder how come this just doesn't make sense to me.
10:52
He said I did it. Yeah, I was super coachable
10:55
athlete, Not gonna ever ask, just gonna do what you say.
10:57
Yeah, that makes sense. Like I said, I have a 17 year
10:59
old kid. I get it.
11:01
That makes a lot of sense. I end up becoming a coach and I
11:05
don't think I ever I was like that like 4 hundreds.
11:07
All right, that sucks, but all right, we're doing 4 hundreds, I
11:08
guess today. What about what kind of athlete
11:12
were you? And what I mean by that?
11:13
I care less now we know your PRS were good, but I care less about
11:17
a a coach's PRS. Your PRS do not make you a
11:20
better or not better. There's no no correlation there.
11:22
What I'm curious about you, you know, we were born in the same
11:25
year. I'm a little bit older than you,
11:26
Joanna, but we were born. I'm back.
11:28
The. Very last of the.
11:29
Year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:31
You squeaked in on the 76th. I'm with you, but you know, we
11:34
like to sometimes guys and gals of our age, we like to shake our
11:36
fists of these young kids. They don't know who the the pros
11:39
are. They don't know it.
11:40
You know where when you were a 161718 year old kid, did you
11:43
know who was when? Did you know GAIL Deavers?
11:46
Did you like, were you that kind of kid or did you just like,
11:48
man, I just know who the girl in front of me or who I'm about to
11:51
put behind me? What What about like the world
11:53
of track and field at that age? When I started running, so when
11:56
I was 12, well, almost 12/19/88 Olympics, I saw Flojo and that
12:01
just changed everything for me. I was like, Oh my gosh, she's
12:03
the best thing ever. You know, I'm like, Oh my gosh,
12:05
I'm going to be her when I grow up.
12:06
So that's when I started paying a little more attention, which
12:10
so everything was really Flojo for me.
12:13
And then when I was in high school, I started running.
12:15
Still Flojo, right? But then jumping, it was still
12:18
Flojo hurtle. And I was like, oh, your
12:21
neighbors, wait a minute, what's that?
12:22
Right. So you start paying attention to
12:24
other people as you start doing the events.
12:27
Obviously Flojo was still Flojo, but I started learning about
12:30
more people as I got older in high school, learning about
12:33
Jackie, Jonah, Kersey and all those things.
12:35
And so for me, it became that. But I was still very into soon
12:40
and locked into me and what I had to do to win and compete.
12:43
And I so I was an I was a super athlete.
12:46
I was super engaged and involved.
12:48
But to your point earlier, coach tendencies, I didn't my tenant,
12:51
my coach tendencies didn't come from trying to know why I was
12:54
doing things in high school, but more so like, see, knowing that
12:57
I was really good that like I was going to win or whatever.
13:01
I always would look at other people and be like, oh, like I
13:05
did one time tell a girl about a trail.
13:07
Like I was like, oh, you should be careful with that because you
13:09
might you, you know, you may fall.
13:11
Because I was like, is it? I had to ask myself.
13:13
And I Remember Remember it very vividly, thinking she's in the
13:16
fall. And I was like, yeah, but why
13:18
you worried about it? Whatever.
13:19
Don't talk to. I'm like, no, because if she
13:20
falls, I'm going to feel guilty because I saw this.
13:23
So I just said, hey, be careful. Like your trailer is kind of
13:25
lagging. Got it.
13:26
Pick it up a little bit. And I she was like, oh, thank
13:28
you. And that was kind of it.
13:29
But that was not do that a few more times in my career with
13:31
competitors where that was quite dear because but this little
13:36
girl was like I I could not knowingly walk away to to run
13:40
when I knew this girl was absolutely going to fall
13:42
coaching you. Know coaching his servitude and
13:45
so your servant heart could not like I love how he said that
13:48
he's like I could not I I saw it I could not not.
13:51
Once I saw it, I couldn't see it.
13:52
I got to help her and if and if she doesn't like it, if it
13:54
doesn't work, I still did what I thought was in the moment
13:58
because again, as an athlete, I knew she can't beat me, right?
14:01
So there's not going to be any risk of that.
14:03
But I just did not want to see this little girl fall down, you
14:07
know? So that yeah.
14:08
So that's where I knew the coaching kind of came in because
14:10
I was always concerned about other people was like,
14:12
well-being as opposed to anything, as opposed to asking
14:16
any questions. I just, like I said, you said OK
14:18
coach, and that was it. So yeah.
14:20
So senior year you're doing great, you know, the state meets
14:23
at CIF and all those kind of things.
14:25
You're highly recruited, you're 17 ish years old.
14:28
What were you thinking about school in regards to?
14:30
Like where did you kind of look and go?
14:33
Why did you end up picking UCLA? And really answer the question
14:36
of like, where is, if at all, is coaching as a career as 17 year
14:41
old Joanna? Yeah, so I do high school.
14:45
I went to the North Carolina. The Tar Heels were everything.
14:49
Basketball, right there was like basketball, the baby blue, the
14:52
color. It was everything about North
14:54
Carolina. Tar Heels were very popular when
14:57
I was in school. It was them.
14:58
It was like Georgetown, Hoyas, right?
15:00
Georgetown. I wasn't going to Georgetown,
15:02
but we wore the jacket. So a lot of that was just came
15:04
from the outfits. You know, it was like there was
15:07
all those different things. I really liked North Carolina.
15:11
Like I was like, I'm going to go to North Carolina.
15:13
Well, they did not recruit me and so I was like, OK, whatever.
15:17
So but I you know, it was late bloomer.
15:20
So what happened was it was more of the California West Coast
15:23
schools who knew who I was because in my junior year when
15:27
people start to really recruit and look at the number.
15:29
Well, my number was 1383 when dated 1411 was my open time 1414
15:36
O2 sorry, fourteen O 2 and then 4311 was my 300 hurdles.
15:40
So I was. Good.
15:42
If you did the homework and saw, oh, she didn't hurt till
15:44
February and then my first two races I fell, cut my knee.
15:47
I didn't get any real hurling until like, you know, April.
15:50
So if you'd done the research, you would know, oh, this girl
15:54
might have an upside or call the coach.
15:56
So that's how Bob, I mean, not by Coach Leathers, Coach
16:00
Jeanette Bolden. That time had just become the
16:03
head coach here at UCLA. Bobby was to step down and was
16:06
the volunteer Coach Jeanette calls Coach Leathers.
16:10
Coach Leathers tells her she just got like you, you know, so
16:14
back then it's different now. Once a week a coach could call
16:17
Jeanette calls every Friday, every week, never missed a week.
16:21
I knew she's going to call the house phone of course, and I
16:23
talked to her and I got this really great relationship with
16:26
her. There was also like, you know, I
16:27
was USC, Arizona State, Arizona, where some of the other bigger
16:32
schools, Ohio State, which was the only real East Coast school
16:36
that I was talking to at that point.
16:38
So talk to all the coaches took my trips.
16:42
But it it was Jeanette, Bobby, that that combo.
16:47
And then UCLA being LA and the reputation they had with now
16:51
we're looking at Jack and Jordan Kersey and GAIL Deavers, Bobby,
16:55
like all these people. I'm like, oh, this is this is
16:57
great. This is the place I need to be.
16:59
Took my trip here. Worst trip ever.
17:01
I hated it. Got stung by a bee.
17:02
I was like this. On your.
17:04
Trip on my trip, I'll never been stung by a bee.
17:06
Got stung by a bee. I'm like, this is really bad.
17:09
And you know, the other schools I had fun.
17:10
I committed to every other school that I went to.
17:12
I think when I was there to like the team and but this was like I
17:17
knew this was the place for me. Just it was just a place for me.
17:19
I thought I went to another school where I was at.
17:22
I went to USC and it was so much fun.
17:25
My actually my best friend to this day.
17:26
I met her there as my she's my host.
17:29
You thought I mean, I'm talking about fun.
17:31
It was part I mean it was the best trip I had, which at 18,
17:34
you wouldn't think that I would make the opposite choice of Oh
17:38
no, this is too fun. I was like, Oh, you know what,
17:41
I'm never going to get anything done here.
17:42
I'm not going to make it out. I love, I loved everything about
17:45
the the air, like the fun that I had with obviously things are
17:49
different now. And, you know, this was 30 years
17:51
ago that I went there and everybody's different.
17:54
I was obviously on staff at one point.
17:55
But the point is I was like, it's too fun.
17:59
And I was like, this is your fault, Nicole.
18:01
You should have not made it so fun.
18:02
So she lost, you know, but USA was my second choice again, LA
18:06
and all the things and the good, the good history they had there.
18:09
But it was just something about that relationship that Jeanette
18:13
Bolden and that goes back to coach Leathers and talking.
18:16
And he would have told anyone else the same thing, which I'm
18:18
sure he did on some occasions, But he was going to tell
18:21
everyone that I just started that I had the upside and I had
18:24
the work ethic and that I was going to be great.
18:26
And then my here I exploded and I'm getting, Oh, what about?
18:29
And I'm like, Oh, I'm already going to UCLA like it.
18:31
That's a wrap for me, you know, And so that's really how it it
18:35
went down and that's how I picked UCLA to stay here and go
18:39
to school in LA. This past February, I had the
18:42
honor of I'd met her before, but actually getting to sit down and
18:46
spend some time with her, with Don Harper Nelson.
18:48
Where does, where is there over? There's overlap, I think, right?
18:51
No. So that Don is a few years
18:54
younger. Well, she's.
18:55
After OK, OK. But I knew Don in high school
18:58
because I she's from East Saint Louis.
19:00
She went to East Saint Louis High School and I would go to,
19:06
to, to Missouri a lot to train in the summers, Bobby and
19:09
Jackie. And so I was like more of a
19:11
mentor, you know, I, I worked there and did a lot of things.
19:14
So cuz by the time Cuz Dawn came to school in like 2002 and I was
19:18
already graduating. Here SO.
19:20
I was more of a mentor to her when she was in high school.
19:22
I knew her but definitely knew her already.
19:25
Crossover. We knew each other and but we
19:28
didn't go to school together. Got it.
19:29
OK. I couldn't remember where that
19:31
was. Just remember another UCLA
19:32
great. OK, so you choose UCLA.
19:35
What are you? What do you go in to major?
19:37
What are you thinking as 18 year old doing of like I'm going to
19:40
become a doctor, a lawyer. What were you thinking?
19:43
Communications. And I was going to be a sports
19:45
broadcaster. Yeah.
19:47
How that was going to go. Like when I was younger, I
19:48
wanted to be a teacher. There was.
19:49
I was going to be because my mom was a substitute and then she
19:52
was a teacher. So you couldn't tell me I wasn't
19:54
going to be a teacher. That was my goal.
19:56
But then I was like, I think I'm do something different.
19:58
So I wanted to be a sports broadcaster and I was going to
20:01
do communications. But then I when I looked at the
20:04
communications, I'm like, there's a lot of like
20:06
internships and things you do. They were telling me the
20:08
summertime. We always went to Saint Louis in
20:10
the summertime. I was like, I had to train.
20:13
So I I did I so I ended up majoring in sociology.
20:16
Oh, is that right? OK.
20:17
An athlete. That's what I decided.
20:18
Yeah, exactly. OK, it was great.
20:21
No, it's good. So.
20:22
Like I said, joy, there is a lot of ink and video on your amazing
20:27
athletic career. I don't want people to think
20:29
like I am diminishing what you've done.
20:31
You have. Yeah, I, I've, I'm so blessed
20:34
through my coaching career and, you know, 20 years here at Gill
20:37
to call a lot of Olympians friends.
20:39
And I still, even as many, you know, I, I John Godina, another
20:42
UCLA guy called me yesterday. You know, I'm so blessed and I,
20:46
but I still have to remember you being an Olympian is a
20:50
fraternity, a sorority of, of nobody, no one's an Olympian.
20:53
I I happen to live in a world where.
20:54
Yeah. Yeah.
20:55
What you have done is amazing. And then so just going to
20:58
Olympics, boom, you are Mount Rushmore, you want a gold medal.
21:03
It's unbelievable. I did do, I normally don't do
21:05
any kind of research, but I did want to kind of do a little bit
21:07
of research on your athleticism. You actually kind of went in and
21:10
became like more of a 400 hurdler to start and then kind
21:13
of went down to the this is what Wikipedia told me and then kind
21:15
of went down to the short hurdles.
21:16
And that's where you end up winning the gold medal.
21:18
So I just and I didn't know that you really were a jumper to
21:21
start out with and then went to the hurdle.
21:23
So bravo, love all that. I want to kind of go start and
21:27
you tell me where you pick us up where as you start to you know,
21:31
and I don't know how you guys, you know, say you guys mean I
21:34
was never athletic enough to have to worry about this.
21:36
How do you guys start thinking about, well, it's time to wind
21:39
down whether I don't know if you guys like put like the next
21:43
Olympics, that'll be it or OK, one more year.
21:45
I don't know how you do it, but as you start, you're smart
21:47
person somewhere. It had to start like, OK, this
21:50
is not in perpetuity here. When how did that process come
21:54
about and and what were you thinking of?
21:56
Well, OK, after my personal athleticism, I'm going to go,
22:00
I'm going to become that sports broadcaster.
22:02
I always talk about. Where do you start thinking
22:03
about your post athletic career? Yeah, You know, I was getting a
22:07
lot of injuries just throughout college and it's a pro, just
22:10
lots of injuries. Excuse me.
22:12
So after the Olympics, I next year, thank you.
22:15
Achilles thing in 2006, seven. I just kept getting hurt.
22:19
You know, I'm like, OK, I'm back. 2008 I was back.
22:21
It was going great. Got hurt, hurt my knee right at
22:25
the first round of the trials. I crossed the line.
22:28
I felt this popping my knee. I'm like, oh crap, what is that?
22:32
But there was for whatever reason in 2008, they had four
22:34
rounds. So I had to go through the
22:36
second round and I was OK because I, I don't know what it
22:39
was, adrenaline or whatever. I was OK.
22:41
I woke up that next morning and I was like, oh, I'm shot.
22:43
It's a wrap. So had got it taped up.
22:46
Just did what he had to do. Had two more rounds to go, got
22:50
through the semi final, hurt like heck, but made the final.
22:54
And then once back to the final, it was more of like just run and
22:58
just whatever happens, happens. Adrenaline.
23:00
I had whatever, you know, medicine and and the problem was
23:04
I was so unfocused on anything. I was so tunnel visioned into
23:08
like not dying because my knee and just like just run as fast
23:11
as you can just see what you can do because it hurts like heck.
23:14
I didn't pay attention that there was like this 3.8 win
23:17
behind us and I was just running way too fast.
23:20
I hit hurdle, I was out, but then I didn't.
23:23
I just hit hurdle 4. Then I hit and I just kind of
23:24
walked over. I was like this is terrible.
23:26
So at that point I was like well I'm going to.
23:28
That was my contract year was going to be up.
23:30
I knew I had the option year, but I knew they weren't going to
23:32
take it. I didn't make the team.
23:33
So I just kept running through that year, finishing out, just
23:36
doing what I can. I was running.
23:37
I remember at one point my knee, it was in London, my knee just
23:40
completely locked up. I was on crutches and Bobby was
23:43
like, Bobby fix it, Bobby, that's a whole nother topic.
23:46
But he fixed my knees. Crazy person, but and it hurt.
23:49
Don Harper was there. It was the pain that he put me
23:51
through was to fix it anyway, not to fix it just so I can bend
23:54
it. And he was like, you're crazy if
23:57
you run another race. And I was like, I'm going to
23:59
Monaco in a couple days. So and I went to Monaco and ran,
24:02
I run my season best there. It was just insane.
24:05
It was like, I was like, this is it for me.
24:07
I know I'm not going to have a contract.
24:08
So unless I do something insane. So I'm like, I got to get as
24:11
much money as I can. So then during that time I knew
24:13
I was done. So I was like, I can't, this is
24:16
whatever's happening with too much pain.
24:17
And I knew what it was. I tore my patellar tendon.
24:19
It was bad. It was worse than I thought.
24:21
Later had surgery in, you know, later that year and then I was
24:25
just done. I started coaching at Harvard
24:27
Westlake High School, so I was a high school coach for a while
24:30
just because I needed a job. OK, Did you Yeah, OK.
24:32
Maybe you answered this question right there as you're going
24:35
through and and the injuries are the number one limiting factor
24:39
of an athlete. You're you're it's not age, it's
24:41
not races is not coaching, it is can you stay injury free?
24:46
You will have a longer career right there.
24:48
So you're going through that and and I know there has to be some.
24:52
I mean, you you've depended on your body for all these years
24:56
and now you're air quotes body is letting you down.
24:59
You know, it's like, come on me, I need you as you start going
25:02
through that. And I love hearing that process
25:04
of like, hey, OK, this is probably last year.
25:06
Well, so I need to make as much money as I can You start
25:09
thinking about what it meant to be Joanna Hayes, not the athlete
25:13
after the next year. Like, did you think about
25:14
coaching or did that just kind of fall like I needed something
25:17
to do like you said? I was like, what do I do?
25:22
I need a job, and it came up actually, I believe Johnny Gray
25:25
because Johnny Gray was there at the time as well.
25:27
So Johnny Gray was like, hey, you know, the hiring Harper W
25:29
come with us and that was like star study because Johnny was
25:32
there. Then I wasn't in Quincy Watts
25:34
was there, Felix Sanchez. So it became like, wait, what's
25:37
happening? Right, went there.
25:39
Felix ended up leaving, but it was just like I need a job.
25:43
And so I did reach out and well, they talked.
25:46
We had a conversation and obviously got hired.
25:49
So I was there, but then in I was coaching high school there.
25:53
Then it went. Then in round 2012 I started 11
25:56
to 12. I started coaching the cross
25:58
country middle school as well. Oh wow.
26:00
I remember like getting back moving.
26:01
I was running with the kids and I was like, you know, getting
26:04
back in shape, you know, just kind of running.
26:06
And I remember Allison was like, you should come back.
26:08
And I was like, you're crazy. And she kept saying you should
26:10
come back and train with us. Come back, come back.
26:12
She's driving me crazy. So I finally I was like, OK, I
26:14
think I'm going to do it. So I came back.
26:15
I did come back later in 2011 that year and just ran 2012.
26:19
And it was good to get it done without having it.
26:23
And the way it ended, although I got hurt again, hamstring, I was
26:28
able to finish. I didn't make the final.
26:29
It was raining, we warmed up, we got delayed and after that I was
26:31
like I can't come back out. So I, you know, did my little
26:34
field where farewell, but it was fine.
26:37
I was, it was good to get one more year and I had and by then
26:40
I had a daughter. So I had a baby.
26:41
I had Zoe. So I I was solely breastfeeding,
26:45
no bottles. So I would take her to practice,
26:47
run some reps, nurse her, put her back in the stroller.
26:49
My brother would come help me, Kenny Ferguson, Allison's then
26:53
boyfriend, but husband now would help me and and teammates would
26:57
help. And it was so Crawford like it
26:59
was an amazing environment for me to have a child in because
27:03
they were also supportive and it was really good just to be able
27:06
to like I can actually, if I really want to do this, I can
27:09
come back. I didn't have a sponsor though,
27:10
and I was still working so I could have come back and
27:14
competed. I ran like 1270 like bounced.
27:16
I was coming and then but it just wasn't enough time for me
27:22
to be able to train because I didn't have the contract.
27:24
So had I had a contract, I think that after having my daughter
27:28
coming back, I could have actually been back on a team.
27:32
It's good to know that. And I think it was good Allison,
27:35
because that also Allison would refer back to that.
27:37
She remembered that time when we were training and I was she
27:40
watched me have be pregnant, have a baby, take time off, come
27:44
back, train with her and come back.
27:45
And so part of that was helped her when she knew when she was
27:48
having a baby that you know, do it.
27:50
So it was, it was just a really good environment to have just in
27:55
that one year. But yeah, I was done.
27:56
And so from there I just kept coaching because that's what I
27:58
was doing. But I will say I did do some
28:01
sports broadcasting during the time that I was coaching high
28:06
school. So I did PAC 12 Network.
28:08
I I did like the, the I called PAC 12 twice.
28:13
I think at that point, Arizona was at USC doing it.
28:17
So there was a, you know, I did spend some time being a
28:20
broadcaster. And then once I was going to
28:23
have another baby, I was like, I'm gonna have to get a real job
28:25
because this is fun. But I got to figure, you know,
28:28
I've been. So then I came to UCLA and then
28:30
then I became a real coach after that.
28:34
I'm kind of just curious. I don't know.
28:36
I'm just curious. Do you think I don't know?
28:40
You know, genetics and the body, your body is different from
28:43
you're not representative of every woman, but I am.
28:45
You know, I'm married to a woman who's had two of our children.
28:48
So, you know, pregnancy. Oh my God, You know, that's the
28:52
only way I could describe it. Do you like, I'm amazed when I
28:55
hear of like an example of yours where you're running at a high
28:58
level. You get pregnant, have a baby
29:00
and you still run 1270. Dude, come on.
29:04
Do you think from your experience, does having a child
29:09
like somehow like fortify, strengthen a a woman's body or
29:14
I, I don't know really. Do you get know where I'm going?
29:16
I don't know where I'm going. Yeah.
29:17
Well. I mean, there's, yeah, it does.
29:20
Obviously, scientifically, there's all the different
29:22
reasons. There's this, there's these
29:23
hormones. And every woman is different.
29:25
You know, you, you get the hormone levels of, you know, HCG
29:27
in your, in your system. So it does help you because your
29:29
body's preparing, you're, you're nurturing or growing a person
29:33
inside you, right? So you have to have these extra
29:35
hormones in your body to take care of two people at once and
29:38
keep you both healthy and alive. And so you do have all that
29:42
strength. And I thought there this is
29:44
really bad, but there's stories of years ago and you may or may
29:47
not have ever heard it, but there was Eastern Bloc people
29:50
where they would get pregnant and then abort the babies
29:52
because. They're not heard.
29:54
That and I learned that terribly crazy, right?
29:58
But that shows kind of like You Get Me.
30:01
But they weren't trying to do so that's a horrible thing to do,
30:04
right? So that was just where I learned
30:06
like, oh, people, first of all, you know, but second of all,
30:09
right, like, why would you do, you know, that's that's nothing
30:12
like on purpose, Like this is a plan, right?
30:15
So that you get those. And I think it's somewhere you
30:17
read it, you know how long that was going on.
30:19
But so it does prove that there are those things.
30:23
So, yeah, you can come back and it's a choice.
30:25
And then some people, though genetically, may gain more
30:28
weight than they thought they would.
30:29
Right, right, right. Can't lose it because
30:31
genetically their body is not able or get sick or you know
30:35
whatever happens that but there is scientific.
30:39
Yeah, that's why I wondered. I figured you might know because
30:42
I've seen some women. It's just like, man, you had a
30:45
child and you're back at it. God bless you.
30:47
Why it's so crazy, right, that that people don't want to like
30:50
support you because you're going to probably come back even
30:52
better. That's, you know, so, and now I
30:54
think that's all been changed, which is great that people
30:56
support women having babies and understand that as athletes, we
31:00
can have babies and come back and it, and I think a lot of
31:03
women put off having pregnant, having babies or did not keep
31:06
babies, not as a plan, but because like, Oh no, I need to
31:09
run and I'd be good at this. And they didn't think they could
31:12
still be good at it having a baby or a contractor, whatever
31:15
the deal is. So I think that it, it's still
31:17
and I, you know, I had, I came back along.
31:19
I didn't train while I was pregnant with the intent of
31:22
coming back, but which I think makes it better.
31:24
And I've been like, I'm coming back trained during pregnancy.
31:27
For me, it was just, I was like randomly like, Oh, I'm training
31:30
and then came back about a year after born 10 months or so.
31:33
So I do believe too, if I had had a plan to come back, I would
31:38
have done the training while pregnant because as a pregnant
31:41
woman, you can still train. You can do, you shouldn't.
31:44
So it's funny because I was like, I'm going to start doing
31:46
CrossFit and then I found out that I was pregnant and they're
31:49
like, well, you can't start doing CrossFit at when you're
31:54
pregnant because you're not used to it.
31:55
Had you been doing CrossFit before you were pregnant?
31:58
Then your body can maintain that level of training.
32:01
So if you're already running before you're pregnant, you can
32:04
continue running at that level. You wouldn't have gone over
32:07
hurdles. Well, I will say that what I
32:11
would say that no, no, there have been women who trained
32:13
pregnant. I think there's several, but you
32:15
go over hurdles to a certain point you.
32:17
Stop at that point like you're not going to.
32:19
Be 8 months pregnant. There was a hurdle I was going
32:21
to go over one day and they were all like at practice.
32:23
No, you better now. I don't know it, you know, I was
32:26
joking around. You can probably get a reward
32:29
here. Yeah, I would think 5-6 months
32:31
down depend on how big your stomach is because the main
32:34
issue would be are you able to hurdle effectively with your
32:37
stomach. Then you could you fall and hang
32:39
on the stomach, you're stuck. So a few years.
32:41
There is a cautionary point there, but I do think women
32:44
trained for hurdles. That's amazing and.
32:46
Then just stop when they had to. I know we're better today in 26,
32:50
but we certainly are not good when it comes to women athletes,
32:53
women coaches as well during pregnancy and supporting them
32:56
and supporting them after either.
32:58
And I think about what was our gal, the 800m runner, Montoya
33:03
Montoya. Montano.
33:04
Who, you know, did a lot of like, like, I'm going to show
33:06
you like this. I'm not an alien just because
33:10
I'm pregnant now. I can still do things.
33:12
I love that. I love that exposure and kind
33:14
of, you know, for us dumb guys be like, oh, OK, They're not.
33:20
And I think a lot of men thought that that was helpful.
33:23
And at the same time, as soon as you have the baby, now get back
33:24
to work. OK, you're done.
33:27
Now go on, let's go. Baby's out.
33:28
Right? Your baby's over.
33:30
Good. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
33:32
OK, so you're coaching in Harvard Westlake with like this
33:34
All Star class cast. I love that you know that I need
33:39
to be doing something full time. I got to have a job now.
33:42
And your first job is at UCLA. Is that what you said?
33:45
Yes. I left Harper Westlake and came
33:47
to UCLA as an assistant coach. So are you, would you?
33:50
Because I was going to ask this during Harvard Westlake, another
33:53
great school, by the way, amazing athletes come out of
33:55
there. So somewhere around that time
33:57
and as you're transitioning to UCLA, would you now at this
33:59
point, at that point, would you have said, I am Coach Hayes?
34:03
Like, OK, you know, we get into our identity and you were
34:05
hurdler Olympian Joanna Hayes. Are you now Coach Hayes?
34:09
Like OK, this is the path forward that I'm going to.
34:13
Yes, it was one of those like, OK, yes, I'm Coach Hayes.
34:17
My I, I it's I kind of touched on it when I talk to people
34:20
sometimes like I don't have a first name anymore.
34:22
So my name, my first name is coach and that's how you would
34:25
address me, right, Because that was like new identity, my new
34:28
person sweat and and even when I came to college, it was like
34:31
college coaching like because the kids in high school call me
34:33
coaches very simple, but it was like, do you want to be called
34:36
coach Joe coaches coach Joanna, like you make that decision
34:39
earlier on Bobby and Jeanette with just Bobby and Jeanette,
34:41
they never had us call him coach and but coach Leathers.
34:44
I only called him coach Leathers would never call him Charles.
34:47
Like that's crazy, right, But I go off of I went off of what
34:50
they wanted to be called. So for me, I was like, what
34:53
level? Where do I want this line to be
34:55
drawn, you know? And I was like, I wanted to be
34:57
Coach Hayes because for me, that was just what I felt I needed.
35:00
And especially as a woman, I needed them to call me Coach
35:03
Hayes. And that was just what I
35:04
decided. Everybody has their own choices
35:07
and how they how they want to be addressed.
35:09
But I thought Coach Hayes was fitting for me.
35:11
And so that's just that. Yeah, I just became Coach Hayes.
35:15
And that was like it was a new identity.
35:17
So how did you navigate this transition?
35:21
So what we have learned from different athletes of of
35:24
different levels here on the podcast is that the way we've
35:26
kind of put it is when you're an athlete, that is a very selfish
35:30
pursuit. Now, it's not a negative because
35:32
I said self. I know times we we tend to think
35:34
selfish is bad. But you know, when you're trying
35:35
to hurdle at the best, win gold medal, set records, you, you
35:39
can't, you can't go out with your friends.
35:41
Sometimes when coach tells something to you, you were
35:44
trying to figure out, how does that help me become better?
35:47
Coaching is more on the other spectrum of selflessness.
35:51
When you learn something, when someone teaches you something as
35:54
a coach, you're now thinking, OK, so how do I digest that so
35:57
that it comes out of me to my athletes to help them?
36:00
That's a transition. For someone who had such a high
36:03
caliber athleticism career that you did, how did you handle that
36:06
transition of like, OK, this isn't about me and my times, my
36:10
everything that I've learned from Bobby and Leathers and
36:12
everybody else. I now have to figure out how to
36:14
communicate to these young people to help them with their
36:17
goals. How did you handle that
36:18
transition? I made a lot of mistakes right
36:20
early on because it is a it is a you.
36:24
I feel like coaching is a on the job.
36:26
You're learning on the job, right?
36:28
You can have, you can have knowledge, you can know this.
36:30
I know it works for me, but now is that necessarily going to
36:34
work for someone else? Do I try, How do I make the
36:38
adjustment? Do I The kids are different.
36:40
Everyone I can say these things. I can't say these things.
36:42
So now you're learning this new set of rules.
36:43
High school was different in college, kids were different,
36:47
responsibilities were different. There was more 2.
36:49
I used to show up in Harvard, Wesley two hours, go home, go to
36:51
a track meal on the weekend, go home because I didn't, I didn't
36:53
work for the school per SE. I would work there, but I would
36:56
get a stipend, right? I'm not on staff.
36:58
So here at UCLAI was on staff. I had to learn all these things
37:01
right? So, and it wasn't the best
37:04
environment for learning at that point.
37:06
There was, I would say like, so when I was in school, we have
37:09
our portal, it's called My UCLA. So you log in, get your
37:11
information. My UCLA to this day, if I put it
37:13
in, I'm going to see all my grades, my transcripts now.
37:18
I was like, this is not my UCLA anymore.
37:20
I didn't feel that connection. So what happened was as my first
37:24
three years as a college coach, the learning was limited.
37:28
And some of it, there was something, some things that had
37:30
happened that rushed me into having my own group and I wasn't
37:32
ready. And so yes, I made a lot of
37:34
mistakes. This I'm good, some were bad,
37:37
some I have these great relationships with to today,
37:40
right, which is good, but I learned a lot on my own as well.
37:43
I had to lean on Bobby a lot, but Bobby, Bobby would not make
37:47
it in, in, in AA, right? Bobby's completely crazy and it
37:50
worked for me. They didn't work for these kids
37:52
because there's all these you can't say this or that.
37:55
I can't get it done. I don't care, which was great
37:57
for me. So again, I'm like, OK, I can't
37:59
do what Bobby did because that doesn't work for these kids,
38:03
right? So, but it was like, OK, now
38:05
workouts and I put them together.
38:06
Do I just do workouts? And I did Bobby, you know, so
38:08
I'm how to put a program together.
38:11
I had a lot of help. Like Darrelle Smith was great.
38:13
He's actually a couple. Right now, but.
38:15
Yeah, yeah. Good friend of mine and he
38:16
helped a lot. He was a volunteer then on
38:18
staff. And you know, we went back and
38:20
forth with stuff. But anyway, when the opportunity
38:22
came for me to go to USC under Coach Carroll, who was also a
38:26
Bruin, it was it was. Yeah.
38:29
So we do. It was the right time.
38:31
And I was able to still because she asked what do you want to
38:35
call you, Coach Hayes, right. We were good on there.
38:37
She asked me that. How do you want this to go?
38:39
But I was able to take a step back from being in charge of a
38:44
group to learning from her how to do the things.
38:48
And that's where it really all started to come together because
38:50
I wasn't, it wasn't forced for me to have to do it.
38:53
Now I can still take Bobby's philosophies and keep them
38:56
there. I had them, but then I had to
38:57
learn hers and from hers and his, when it was time for me to
39:01
do my own thing, I could blend it to what I thought need I
39:04
needed, right? So all the great things from
39:07
each one I could blend into me. The ones that I didn't like I
39:10
threw out and then the rest I figured out on my own, right?
39:12
So that I was learning how to put together a program and
39:16
coach. But because I had her on top of
39:19
over me, I was able to see things and learn things.
39:23
I wasn't forced into saying things or learning on my own.
39:26
And that's when I really started to understand.
39:29
It was hard and she knows that we talked about it was ours.
39:31
She was had to be doing a lot of work.
39:33
But all that work that I did is literally today paying off.
39:37
So you mentioned one of my favorite human beings in the
39:40
whole world, Carol Smith Gilbert, who's also been on the
39:43
podcast, if you guys love Joanna and you love this whole UCLA
39:46
thing. Yeah, we've had a few on the
39:48
podcast. John's been on the pod.
39:49
We have. We actually, I guess I got to go
39:51
back. How many UCLA Bruins do we have?
39:52
We have a lot. 1 Probably. Yeah, yeah.
39:55
Well, when you produce a lot of champions, I guess you produce a
39:57
lot of coaches as well. That's right.
40:00
That's right. Who?
40:01
You know, Carol also went to UCLA.
40:04
She was going to go into film. That's what she went to UCLA
40:07
for. She was going to do like like
40:08
editing and things like that. That was her.
40:11
That was her her bend when she went to UCLA out of Colorado
40:15
when you. So I love Carol and and I you
40:16
know, I for many, many reasons. I mean, just honestly, if I had
40:19
to like summed up her leadership and that's what you were
40:21
describing there. I remember walking with her and
40:24
Q around the track at USC and just, I mean, just, you know,
40:28
she thinks differently. And I mean that in all the
40:30
positive ways, you know, and nothing gets by her.
40:34
How how you described a little bit what you know, she can be
40:40
intimidating as well, right, For many different reasons.
40:42
Very successful athlete, very successful coach, you know, did
40:47
it at UCL. Go listen to the podcast.
40:49
You don't know how well she did. She's awesome.
40:50
How was that? You you go there, you got your
40:53
own accolades. Now, you know, you got a gold
40:56
medal around your neck. How was that?
40:59
You you you describe kind of taking a step back from, you
41:01
know, running a group for different reasons to now like,
41:04
oh, OK. I almost get like like some more
41:06
mentorship vibes now. Like this is how you actually
41:09
learned how to become a coach. Yeah, that was, I mean, you
41:12
know, you high school coaching and then at UCLA coaching again,
41:16
I believe you become a better coach and you learn how to coach
41:19
from experience. So all those experiences helped,
41:21
right. So then what the thing that was
41:23
missing was the day-to-day mentorship.
41:25
Obviously I had Bobby, had Jeanette, I had people that
41:27
would help me. But in this situation it was an
41:29
everyday thing with her. And so some of it came from just
41:32
me seeing her do things right hand wrong.
41:35
You know, I'm like, oh, I would never do that.
41:36
This lady is crazy, right? So it was like, and she'll say I
41:40
shouldn't have done that, right. One thing about her, she will
41:42
tell you when she made a mistake conversations because I was so
41:46
back to my accolades and to my knowledge, she was the program.
41:49
She was in charge. I did what she said.
41:50
I set up the hurdles, I set up the cones for the sprints and
41:53
blocks. I did all that assistant coach
41:55
stuff. And then I was able to give them
41:57
advice and talk to the girls about different things.
41:59
But it was it was times where I wanted to like implement some
42:02
stuff. And I remember one time I told
42:04
her a couple things that I wanted to do, and she kind of
42:07
just moved on. And then one day she was talking
42:10
like, oh, yeah, such and such a this and this.
42:11
And I'm just looking at her and she's like, oh, well, you told
42:14
me that too. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.
42:15
You told me first and I didn't listen, so I respected that.
42:19
She was like, oh, you already. I should have listened to you
42:22
because you knew this. But she wasn't ready at that
42:24
point, I guess to listen to me because it was improving.
42:27
She was still teaching me, right.
42:29
So in that moment, I think she realized, okay, you do know, So,
42:31
you know, things worked out then ended up, you know, I was
42:34
coaching there, then I was a volunteer.
42:35
Then she left George, I came back, you know, and I was, I was
42:39
on staff then back to UCLA. So all the things happened.
42:42
But during my time with her, it was like, I was just doing
42:46
housing. I was doing financial aid, I was
42:47
doing, I was doing all the things and the things that other
42:50
coaches may not have been doing, I ended up just doing.
42:52
And we talked about that and she was like, Oh my God, you're
42:54
doing everything right. So part of it she adjusted so I
42:57
don't have to do everything. But she said you are.
43:00
We're women and we when we see something's not happening, we do
43:03
it without a complaint. We just pick it up and do it.
43:06
What happens is if you're doing it all and other people aren't,
43:08
you're not doing yourself or them a service because now
43:11
they're not learning and you're burning out, right?
43:14
And so that's what I've learned as well.
43:16
I'm a do it all and I'm like, I got to let my coaches do this.
43:18
I got to let my coaches go. I got to sit.
43:20
I wouldn't do it so bad. I got to let it hurt Mecca
43:22
because I have an athlete, one of my coaches, I used to coach
43:25
Mecca. I'm like, I just got to let her
43:27
do it. I want to do it, but I got to
43:28
tell her how to let her and walk away from it, right?
43:30
Because if I don't have her do it, when does she learn it?
43:34
When does she become a better coach, right?
43:37
So I've learned a lot of things. Some of the things I learned
43:39
with Coach Carroll were circumstantial and some were she
43:42
specifically said, sit here so I can tell you this, right?
43:45
I'm going to show you this. I'm around a lot of high
43:48
achieving, high profile people in the coaching ranks.
43:51
And also, I think about it literally a conversation I just
43:53
had with one of my teammates that I mentor here.
43:56
That is probably the number one thing I think high achieving
44:00
people and high caring people, by the way, have to learn is,
44:05
you know, that we, we always use the D word delegating, but it's,
44:07
it's, it's a control thing. And, and I also wonder that if
44:11
some, some of these high achieving people like you and
44:14
Carol, that because of that, because of that control, that
44:21
the high control profile that you have is that's how you
44:24
became successful as well. Like if you didn't lean into
44:27
that as a certain age and stage, you wouldn't have gotten to the
44:30
mountaintops that you've gotten to.
44:32
But then it does change, especially when you become a
44:35
head coach, because now you're responsible for a staff as well.
44:38
You made a great example there with one of your current
44:40
assistant coaches of like, oh, it's not about me.
44:43
And by the way, I could still do it all and control it all, But
44:48
that's going to put a cap on where we can do as a program,
44:52
correct? Correct.
44:52
No. So I think that that is what
44:54
I've seen from, I mean, high achieving people.
44:56
That's the number one thing is how do I control, how do I trust
45:00
other people? And by the way, that's step one.
45:03
Step 2 might be as important, if not more important.
45:05
Allow them, allow myself to know that they are going to make
45:09
mistakes and that's OK. We'll fix it.
45:12
I will support you and we'll move on.
45:14
But I got to be OK that they're going to bring something to me.
45:17
It's like, well, why in the world did you do that?
45:19
I wouldn't have done it that way.
45:21
We have to, to go with them. So I, I appreciate that you're
45:23
learning this at that stage of, of the career.
45:27
Now. You grew up in California.
45:28
I grew up in Alabama. So in athletics there's always
45:31
rivalries. Every time I tell people I'm
45:33
from Alabama, they always say, oh, did you grow up Alabama or
45:35
Auburn, all this kind of stuff, right.
45:37
You grew up one of the way, UCLA or USC maybe, or something like
45:40
that. You grew up UNC, that's where
45:41
you grew up. But I do know and I still one of
45:44
my bucket list is to go to the USCUCLA dual meets.
45:49
By the way, Willie Banks I had on the podcast another you guys
45:52
just thought about that because he gave a great story.
45:53
He was on the podcast. We he gave a great story that
45:56
included OJ Simpson at the USCUCLA duo.
45:59
So a very big memory. How was it?
46:02
You're a Bruin. I know I asked Carol the same
46:05
question. I guarantee I did.
46:06
How do you work for USC? How do you work against your
46:10
alma? You not only have to the same
46:12
conference, you actually have a dual meet.
46:14
That means something like you. That's a big deal.
46:17
How do you handle being on the Trojan side?
46:19
Yeah, You know, when I first took the job and I got my alumni
46:23
were killing me. I'm like, OK, well, look, I got
46:25
it. I got to get a job.
46:26
I got to eat. My kids got to eat.
46:27
I got. That only goes so far.
46:30
Put that shirt on. I was like, here we go.
46:32
I'm here anyway. I remember the first day, I
46:34
remember the exact shirt I was wearing.
46:36
I remember the I was walking around, I was seeing the things
46:38
and I was like, OK, this is where I'm at.
46:41
But I had to tell myself that life is bigger than rivalries,
46:44
that my children's needs come before a rivalry, that my
46:47
coaching needs come before a rivalry.
46:49
So it helped that she was a brewing, right?
46:51
That I could say. Yeah, that's.
46:56
Right, blue shirt under my jersey.
46:57
But, you know, it was more of like this is and I prayed on it
47:01
a lot when the job opportunity came.
47:03
And, you know, I'm a very, very loyal person, loyal to a fault.
47:06
And I had to pray because I was like taking that job meant being
47:10
disloyal to UCLA. But as I thought about it and
47:12
prayed about it and the end of the day, I wasn't no one was
47:15
like you, we can give you more money to stay.
47:17
I was like this point, you know, but it was more of like, OK,
47:21
God, like, what do you think? And I think what happened was
47:24
had they offered me more money or even something different like
47:28
you can increase, if they would have even had a conversation
47:30
about maybe do you want to stay? No one's had the conversation
47:32
with me. I think that that was God saying
47:35
if they could, if they would have, I probably would have
47:36
stayed. So I think God was like, if I
47:38
let them have a you're not, you're not staying there because
47:40
you're not supposed to be there. So I didn't have really the
47:43
option. I was like, either I stay or I
47:44
go. That's kind of how it was sent
47:46
to me. Whatever, do what you want.
47:47
And so I was like, I'm going. And that was for me that I knew
47:51
in the moment that I was where I was supposed to be.
47:55
So that's how I was able to do it because this is I felt this
47:59
is where I need to be right now. And you know, I still have my
48:02
friends. They were, they were giving me a
48:03
hard time for trust me forever. I knew they all understood under
48:07
the surface of the robbery. They knew I had to do what was
48:10
best for me and my family. So that's what I did.
48:12
But that's how I did it because I knew I was supposed to be
48:14
there. I knew what could come from it.
48:16
And again, at some point you got to be an adult.
48:20
Right, you got to get out of college.
48:22
I. Was offered this much to go here
48:24
and this and and then they would say you are you.
48:26
What's wrong with you, stupid? Right now I'm like, you're an
48:29
idiot. Why I?
48:30
Thought UCLA was smart people. Right.
48:32
We're going to fire you because you how you going to leave
48:33
people? You make dumb decisions.
48:37
I love that your friends gave you some crap about it because
48:40
that's how you know they're friends.
48:42
Because someone out there, we don't all 100% have friends,
48:45
have 100% of friends. Someone out there was like,
48:47
well, yeah, of course she did, you know so, but didn't say it
48:50
to you. You know what I'm saying?
48:50
So your friends are the ones who are going to call you.
48:52
I'll be like, are you kidding me?
48:53
You're going to go put maroon on.
48:55
Really. Yeah, They gave me yeah all the
48:58
time, But so and then I had to block out.
49:01
I want. I didn't want UCLA to do bad,
49:03
but I wish I wanted us to. Do bad.
49:04
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:05
Oh yeah. Oh, man.
49:06
OK. From USC to UCLA head coach.
49:11
Yes. Yeah.
49:12
OK. How do you know every every new
49:18
head coach here? Let's go back old school.
49:20
I guess this of every head coach, the first time they
49:22
become a head coach, you become a head coach.
49:24
That's different from being an assistant coach.
49:26
I mean, even the most prepared and I don't think as head
49:29
coaches overall, we're doing a very good job of training our
49:33
assistant coaches to one day become head coaches.
49:36
But even the most prepared assistant coach that I've seen
49:39
and talked to and know is not prepared for the head coaching
49:41
job. You get the head coaching job,
49:44
not only of of UCLA. That's your again, there's some
49:47
emotion, there's some, you know, you, you bled on that track lane
49:50
2 right there during practice, you know, those kind of things.
49:53
What did you think? So I love this kind of it's
49:57
going to be this kind of the same question inverse.
49:58
The first part is what did you think was going to be hard?
50:01
Like, OK, you're a smart person. So you knew like, OK, there's
50:04
going to be some things, I don't know this, this part I might be
50:06
challenged with, but actually ended up being pretty easy
50:09
because and I'm going to talk. So you can think that question
50:12
through because when you become a head coach, you have 1000
50:14
hats, scheduling, budgeting, alumni, you might be on
50:19
committees to hire the basketball coach.
50:20
You know, there's, you have so many more athletic department
50:23
responsibilities as well as the responsibilities of the the
50:27
program itself. What did you think going in
50:29
like, Oh, this might be a little challenging for me.
50:31
And after sitting in the desk for a month, six weeks,
50:33
whatever, you're like, what was I worried about?
50:35
This is actually kind of easy. I'm I'm a natural at this.
50:40
Look, you go, anything you do new, you're not ready for it.
50:42
No one's ready to do something they've never done before.
50:44
That's just basic facts. If you say it, you're, you're
50:47
fooling yourself, right? I was ready for a lot of things
50:50
though of it because of all the work I had done before.
50:52
I knew, I knew how financial aid works.
50:54
I know how you know Housing Works.
50:57
I know how it is. I know that dealt with all kind
51:00
of kids on all kind of levels, top to bottom, talent, all that,
51:02
right? So all that for me never was
51:04
really concerned about, but knowing going into this, I knew
51:07
that there was a couple things that I wasn't versed on, which
51:10
was budgets, right? Because I wasn't in the budget
51:13
meetings. I didn't know how this, who,
51:15
what, when, where. That's the one thing I really
51:17
never sat in on and learned. So I was like, and I even said
51:20
that that's going to be one thing that's going to be the
51:23
most challenging for me to learn and understand.
51:25
But what I found out now, just a bunch of money that you're going
51:27
to overspend it anyway and you just got to figure out which,
51:29
right? So.
51:30
Somebody's yelling right now. Oh, you don't get to wait.
51:32
You get to overspend. I don't.
51:33
Get those. Yeah.
51:33
Don't overspend. No, it's not good.
51:35
I trust me. I got.
51:35
I'm sure I got some meetings because what happens is when you
51:39
overspend, you have to go into your own budget, your foundation
51:43
budget. So guess.
51:43
What? The other thing I was going to
51:46
challenge with this fundraising, right?
51:48
So those are the 2 main things. Money because I've never been
51:50
somebody that's good at asking for money, right?
51:54
I'm not like, hey, Mike, can I just, I've never been good at
51:57
that. Like it's never been skill of
52:00
mine. It's never been something that I
52:01
ever wanted to do. It's always been actually
52:03
difficult for me to ask for money for, to ask for even for
52:06
help, right? So knowing that like, Oh my
52:08
gosh, that's for money. So those are the two things that
52:11
we're going to be the most challenging.
52:12
And I will say those are the two things that still are the most
52:14
challenging. There's everything else to me is
52:17
not terrible. Yeah, I love that that was a
52:20
challenge for you because I we almost called another name.
52:24
We almost came over the podcast was Mythbusters.
52:27
And you know, I'm a small school kid, meaning I, you know, I went
52:30
to school at Troy University, coached at Ball State, JUCO,
52:33
etcetera, Also coached at Mississippi State.
52:34
I was in the SEC. So I've seen all avenues and I
52:36
get to talk everybody from UCLA Joanna Hayes to Division Three,
52:42
Illinois Wesleyan. You know, I've seen all gamuts
52:45
of it and a lot of there's a prevailing a number of coaches
52:50
who think a all power 4 never has any problem at all.
52:54
Exactly. Yep, I remember there's two
52:57
stories. I remember being at Oregon at
53:00
practice and Robert Johnson is turning the pits, you know, for
53:03
for practice. And I was like, Robert, no one
53:06
in this country believes that the head coach of Oregon is
53:09
turning his own pits. They would all think that you
53:10
have 100 helpers, and that would do it.
53:14
And he's like, man, I do my own. I was like, exactly.
53:16
And Carol Smith, I remember walking on that track and she's
53:20
telling me these problems that you have at USC.
53:22
Like she goes like, I don't own my track.
53:24
I you know, you've been there. So, you know, she gave me this
53:27
story and I thought we we were in the office the the old
53:29
offices now. And she goes, Mike, she goes,
53:31
you know, the lane gates that, you know, cover lanes one
53:34
through three. I go, yeah, absolutely.
53:35
And she goes, you know, how you can lock them, you know.
53:37
So, you know, I was like, absolutely.
53:38
She goes, somebody came the other day and and, you know,
53:41
broke the deadbolt. And I was like, and I was like,
53:44
she's she's got to be exaggerating.
53:47
So we walk out and she there's the lock is still there.
53:49
She picks it up and it is deadbolt cutter.
53:52
What? And I'm like, this is USC.
53:55
If I if I asked 100 coaches, what problems does USC have,
54:00
none of them would say, oh, they own their track.
54:02
They get to take anybody, push them.
54:03
I was like, man, they don't even have sometimes rights over their
54:06
band at USC for the track. I mean, it was amazing.
54:09
So I love that UCLA because I bet you again, and if I asked
54:12
100 coaches and said, Hey, do you think UCLA has to fundraise
54:15
for money? They're like, no, they have all
54:17
the money, the money. So I love that that was that was
54:20
the. Track.
54:22
That's another challenge. I don't own the track, just like
54:24
she didn't own the track. You know, you have to deal with
54:26
wreck and all the different commerce.
54:28
So people are like, oh, can I come back to track?
54:30
And I'm like, I can't tell you yes or no.
54:31
I'm already in trouble for that right now.
54:33
So it's like everybody just people are like, oh, I'm just
54:35
going to come use the track. I'm like, well.
54:37
I. Can't give you permission to
54:38
just use the track when you want because there's probably
54:41
something going on with rec or something going on here.
54:43
It's not that in a lot of universities will be the same
54:46
state schools, different schools.
54:47
You're like, wait, why can't I just come out like it's not,
54:50
It's just not that simple. They say you can use a track
54:53
whenever you want to. So, and I think by
54:56
misconception, because some schools in the country are
54:58
completely private, their track, you can't.
55:01
Right, they own the 24 hours a day.
55:02
Right. Some schools used to try coach
55:04
shares with soccer, which I do as well.
55:06
We share that. We figure some things out.
55:07
So it is a scheduling thing. And I think, yes, this is great
55:11
because so many schools and so many coaches will tell you, oh,
55:13
that sounds good. I wish.
55:15
Yeah, yeah. When you have something really
55:18
great, you have some, I mean, not as great.
55:19
And that's every school, though. And that's why even with
55:21
recruiting, like, you're going to write your pros and cons,
55:24
some you're going to get. What are you willing to say?
55:27
Yeah, I'm OK with begging for that because not any school in
55:30
this country has exactly everything they want.
55:32
And whatever everyone else thinks they have, they're still
55:35
going to have. Every body has hurdles to get
55:38
over with, pun intended, Whether it's whether it's admissions,
55:41
like, yeah, I wish I could get a 2.5 in here.
55:43
That ain't working here. I wish I could get that kid at
55:46
full ride. I only have 35, Scott, whatever.
55:48
You know, no one is, there is a 0 programs that have that have 0
55:53
problems, concerns, etcetera. So I asked you, what did you
55:58
think you were going to struggle with and and what's the reverse?
56:01
What's something you thought like, oh man, this is going to
56:03
be easy as the head coach. And then it's like, oh, there's
56:05
a little bit more to this than I thought.
56:08
What I think was, and The funny thing is, I guess I didn't think
56:12
anything would be easy because it's, I'm in charge of an entire
56:17
group of not just kids, but coaches and, and technically I
56:21
have 6 sports right across many across country, indoor track and
56:25
field, outdoor track and field. So I have a really big
56:27
responsibility. So every year.
56:29
And there's part of that like, I guess maybe more is more to that
56:32
the plane times and like you have to do these calendars and I
56:35
got a compliance. So all those things are a little
56:37
bit more in depth. And I was like used to always
56:40
doing, I understood them because I've done it before in general.
56:43
But yeah, there's I guess it's a lot of just things and I really
56:47
didn't. And I knew there'd be head
56:49
coaches meetings like my, I had to go to these meetings.
56:50
So I guys, I got to go. I can't tell.
56:52
I got to go here. I got you know, but it's been,
56:54
you know what I would say UCLA is great.
56:56
I mean, I don't know where the schools do because I'm here.
56:58
But Martin, you know, if we have a head coaches meeting and I
57:00
have to finish practice or something, I shoot a message to
57:02
an oversight, like I'll be late or can I jump on Zoom?
57:05
They're like, do what you got to do.
57:06
Like they're they're very understanding about scheduling.
57:10
They know I want to be there. So I'll jump on to zoom or I'm
57:12
traveling. There's there's so many things
57:14
that they make accommodating for me as a head coach, which I
57:17
really appreciate. And I think as an assistant,
57:19
though, you don't see those things because your
57:21
relationships with people, you know, like I knew Jen at USCAD,
57:25
she was amazing. I only got to be with her for,
57:27
you know, a short period of time, but I thought, wow, female
57:30
AD like I thought she was amazing.
57:31
I got to know her a little bit and the longer I stayed, I would
57:34
have known her better. But in general, you're not an
57:36
assistant coach. That's just hanging out with an
57:38
AD, right? You're you're in a different.
57:40
So as a head coach, you know, you're like, you got to talk to
57:42
a lot of upper level people on it daily basis.
57:46
You're responsible for anything that a coach does.
57:49
So knowing that I knew it coming in, but dealing with it is like,
57:53
shoot, I got to go guys, because I whatever or this or an
57:58
athlete's like, I need to talk to you.
58:00
I yesterday I talked to someone had to leave in practice.
58:02
I got to make adjustments because I need to talk to this
58:04
person right now and I'm the head coach.
58:06
And if I don't do this, what happens to this person?
58:09
What do they do? What how do they feel?
58:11
So now. It's like.
58:12
They need the head coach to give them the information to talk to
58:16
them. So in that, did I think it was
58:18
going to be easy? No.
58:19
But did I really? Did I think thoroughly about how
58:22
much more I have to do? So at the assistant coach, they
58:25
all came to me. We talked all the time, myself,
58:27
all the problems, whatever, right?
58:28
It was great, whatever it was like sometimes I say go talk to
58:32
the head like I can't do that. I don't know.
58:34
I don't know. I can't answer that.
58:36
Go see the head coach now I'm the head coach.
58:38
So I got to answer it. I got to make a decision and I'm
58:44
possibly going to make a big mistake.
58:46
So there is that where I was, I knew I was going to have to do
58:49
these things, but in real time I'm like, Oh my gosh.
58:52
And I had to be very decisive. I'm not a super decisive person.
58:55
It'll take me, I'm at if I'm out so much, it's like, all right,
58:57
well, what do you think? Well, how's this?
58:59
What do people like about this? What you #1 And then I'm like,
59:01
well, I'll just try this instead.
59:03
It takes me too long to order, right.
59:05
People get so annoyed this get something.
59:08
So now I'm like, OK, give me some time and I got to think
59:11
about it. So I don't always have time to
59:13
make the decisions or so I have to make choices and they could
59:16
be wrong. So that is probably the most
59:19
difficult thing because my decisions could really be bad.
59:24
I could really affect 9090 athletes, 8 coaches.
59:28
Do you got like like, Oh my gosh.
59:30
But it's too that it made it right.
59:31
It's really wrong. I got to answer to people
59:34
upstairs. I can say, oh, I'll oh, go talk
59:37
to my head coach. No, that's so the buck stops
59:39
with me. And I think that is a very
59:42
precarious situation because I'm like, I love it.
59:45
I love being in charge. I love being the boss.
59:47
I love coming and going as I please.
59:49
I have to tell you if I'm coming, Hey guys, I'm I'm not
59:51
going to be there, whatever, because I'm the boss.
59:54
But too much, too much is given. Much is expected.
59:56
I can't just be like, I'm not going to talk to the kids today.
59:59
Do you you know, we can't do everything.
1:00:04
We can't do anything alone. To be real frank with you.
1:00:08
And maybe you've mentioned some of them.
1:00:10
Do you have like like there, there needs to be like a support
1:00:13
group of head coaches, honestly, and even down to different
1:00:17
niches, right? I'm careful how I ask this.
1:00:22
I think there is different support, maybe maybe not for
1:00:25
everybody, maybe needed for women head coaches versus men,
1:00:31
African American versus white and not because of any
1:00:34
deficiencies, but like how you are treated unfortunately by
1:00:37
society. Do you have like a cadre like,
1:00:41
you know, you're faced with one of these big decisions and it's
1:00:43
like, man, I need to bounce this off somebody.
1:00:45
Do you have like a cadre of trusted like other head coaches
1:00:48
or senior coaches even that you're like, OK, let me call my
1:00:51
my lifeline here and get some help.
1:00:53
Yeah, I mean, for sure, like 1 is you have to be careful
1:00:56
because we're all, we all got a dog in the fight.
1:00:59
So you're like, what can I tell this person?
1:01:00
Not tell, Yeah. Right.
1:01:02
So I do, I do. I just actually called Jeanette
1:01:04
Bolden the other day. She's done coaching with my
1:01:06
coach, head coach at UCLA. That's black woman like, how
1:01:09
about you not? So she's like the one that that
1:01:13
can really give me that advice and she really wants me to
1:01:15
succeed. She recruited she's really
1:01:17
wanting it. Obviously, Bobby.
1:01:20
Those are like my constant forever, but then you know,
1:01:22
definitely coach Carroll like we talk a lot.
1:01:24
Sometimes I just pick up the phone call her vice versa.
1:01:26
She'll check on me. I check on her we talk about
1:01:28
she's like, oh, guess what I found out you can try try this.
1:01:30
This could help you. So she'll give me little
1:01:32
Nuggets. So she is like we are.
1:01:35
We have gotten a lot closer to as since she's not my boss
1:01:39
because she's my boss. Honest lady.
1:01:41
I can understand you know whatever way she's crazy or
1:01:45
we're like, I can't do this. I can't tell her this because
1:01:47
she's my boss. I'm going to get in trouble,
1:01:48
right? But since the years that have
1:01:50
passed and we've been good forever, but now we've gotten
1:01:53
really close to where I can just call her and vice versa.
1:01:56
We and even still she asked me, So what do you think I should
1:01:58
do? This happened.
1:01:59
What would you do? So we do those things in terms
1:02:03
of like personal relationships with kids and whatnot.
1:02:05
So she's definitely a big one. Alan Johnson, who I ran with for
1:02:10
many, many years and he's at North, you know, North Carolina
1:02:13
A&T now we've been friends forever and ever.
1:02:16
So he's been a head coach not much longer than me, but a
1:02:18
little longer. So we talk about stuff like,
1:02:21
hey, this happened, what do you think?
1:02:22
And we, we, he's very helpful. And I will say I don't pick up
1:02:26
the phone a lot and call Mouse, my colleague from Florida, but I
1:02:31
know I can. And he, and he has given me
1:02:34
advice though, over this course, whatever you need.
1:02:37
He's, we've done like Zooms together and he helps me.
1:02:41
So he's been very helpful over the years as well.
1:02:44
So if I know I'm you know, he's killed text me like
1:02:46
congratulations. Like he's been, I phoned him.
1:02:49
I'm like, oh, what's the mouth talking about?
1:02:50
Just want to tell me congratulations something right.
1:02:53
So that is real support for me knowing I know he's there.
1:02:57
And then Brooks Johnson was a mentor of mine, his coach and
1:03:00
mentor of good friends. So I feel like after Brooks is
1:03:03
passing to I know that he he's there if I need, right.
1:03:07
So those are like the main like coaches that like current
1:03:11
coaches that I talked to. Then of course, I have a lot of
1:03:13
friends that are assistant coaches and different people,
1:03:15
but in the leadership roles, those are like the main ones
1:03:19
that would specifically reach out to or and be comfortable
1:03:22
telling things that they'd be used against me later.
1:03:27
Those are great people I've known.
1:03:29
I want to, you know, it was a small highlight, but it was
1:03:32
either 8 or 12 trials. And I'm leaving the hotel to go
1:03:36
to the track and Alan's there and he looks like he's in a
1:03:38
little bit of distress. I'm like, are you trying to get
1:03:40
to the track? And he didn't know who I was,
1:03:42
you know, But you know, I'm a hurdle ski.
1:03:43
I knew who Alan Johnson was. And he's like, yeah, the bus.
1:03:46
And I was like, Hey, I'm, I work for like, like you can trust me.
1:03:49
I work for Gil. You know, I'm not some kind of
1:03:50
weirdo. Do you need a ride?
1:03:52
And I got to retry. I went to the IT was awesome.
1:03:54
I love that. And then Mike Mouse and Brooks
1:03:58
Brooks, rest in peace was an early guest on the podcast and I
1:04:01
learned. So I still tell people, I think
1:04:04
his story. You should listen to that
1:04:07
podcast and hear him share his his journey every year of your
1:04:10
career. It's Brooks went through it
1:04:13
buddy and overcame everything and the conversation he had
1:04:17
about the way he thought about coaching was unique, man.
1:04:20
It was it was so good. And then Mouse, another one just
1:04:24
humbled me. Guess number like 30.
1:04:25
So he's an OG on this thing. What a servant leader.
1:04:27
Of course he texted you and says congratulations.
1:04:29
He has no jealousy in his body. So I love that.
1:04:33
So much right and even and I would say after the doing meet
1:04:35
last year, I got so many messages and calls, but but Flo
1:04:39
was like called me on the phone was like, girl, I'm so proud of
1:04:43
you. You know, so a lot of that, just
1:04:46
those little calls or texts that people give, whether you ask for
1:04:49
advice or not, or see them all the time when they see you in
1:04:52
person. I'm so proud of you.
1:04:53
Those are things that helped me continue to move forward because
1:04:56
I know that they're out there and that they're watching and
1:04:59
that if I need them, that they're there.
1:05:01
If what for whatever, right? I just need to talk to them.
1:05:04
I've known them for so long. None of us are perfect.
1:05:08
None of us would have done learning.
1:05:09
And so just knowing that there are people out there that I can
1:05:12
call if I need to, but I just know that they're supporting me.
1:05:16
And so it's, it's it's really good to have those people.
1:05:20
And there's more, there's obviously more in the country.
1:05:23
Human coaches, you know, that I talked to learn from Rodlyn.
1:05:26
You know how they like, there's just if I just sat down and was
1:05:30
like, you know, I would risk. And I actually funny, I have a
1:05:32
list of female coaches in my phone, but I like there.
1:05:35
I mean, Amy Dean was like my first coach, 1995 junior Pan Am
1:05:40
games on the staff. She was like 20 and she's
1:05:43
barely, I don't know how it was 20 survive and I've noticed
1:05:46
since I was 18, you know, it's amazing.
1:05:48
So again, it's just being in this new club, right?
1:05:51
I knew him when I was, but I'm in the club now, right?
1:05:53
I'm like, I'm up here. It's really good to know that
1:05:57
there are so many women out there, especially women that
1:06:00
support. Then you have the allies that
1:06:03
are out there. And again, Bobby's been an ally
1:06:05
for women coaches since forever, right?
1:06:08
So having Bobby there all the time is.
1:06:12
I love people who realize that success is not π and so you're
1:06:16
trying to get a bigger Pete. Like you realize like, oh,
1:06:18
Joanna's success doesn't like they're still competitive.
1:06:20
Like, yeah, we need to beat UCLA, but her winning dual, that
1:06:23
dual meet and winning go to nationals and getting hives like
1:06:26
that doesn't diminish what I could do.
1:06:27
So I love people that show that like, you know what, we I can be
1:06:31
happy for other people and still be competitive and want to win.
1:06:33
So love that example. All right, last two questions
1:06:36
here, Joanna. I love personality and and I
1:06:40
love social media and you have certainly melded the two.
1:06:44
I won't call you famous for this, but you know you get
1:06:47
around with this both good and bad sides to people's opinions
1:06:51
on this thing You are I am going to call you famous famous for
1:06:54
doing this these fun dances memes like you.
1:06:59
Here's what I really love is that you're my age, Joanna, and
1:07:03
you have embraced social media. People say that's a young
1:07:07
people. Like, bro, I love at my age, I
1:07:09
love social media. So I love that you do this.
1:07:11
Are you doing this purely because I just love to be fun
1:07:15
and show my personality? Is it strategic for recruiting?
1:07:18
What's maybe a little bit of motivation behind it?
1:07:20
And if there is, yeah. It's so it started with
1:07:23
recruiting, right? Because I'm like these kids talk
1:07:26
this language they speak and I would say so Snapchat back in
1:07:29
the day 100 years ago, Sydney McLaughlin, I would we had we I
1:07:34
learned about streaks. So Sydney and I had a streak.
1:07:38
I would snap her, you know, recruiting her, but snapper
1:07:41
every day she snapped me, I snapped her.
1:07:43
I don't know if it might still be in there, but we had a streak
1:07:45
for a while and I was like, OK, this is kind of cool.
1:07:47
I got to like learn how to do these things.
1:07:49
I I learned a lot of stuff right So and honestly, she didn't go
1:07:52
to USC, but I post her later, right.
1:07:54
That's a whole other story, but city that's kind of where I like
1:07:57
learn like, oh, a street. I learned that really from
1:07:59
Sydney. And then it just became this
1:08:02
thing where like, OK, this is how they communicate now, right.
1:08:06
So I'm at when I'm coaching, I'm like, let me send messages.
1:08:09
Let me let me do a video. Are they like this?
1:08:10
Are they like that I got lights on?
1:08:13
Like you start to see that that's and that's the easiest
1:08:15
way to get them send them Adm, but they're already on there all
1:08:17
the time or like their picture. So that was how it all like
1:08:20
started. And then I have daughters.
1:08:22
They like they like to dance. So I'm like, so I can be this
1:08:25
mom that dances with her daughters and then recruits like
1:08:28
it. And oh, guess who else likes it?
1:08:29
Recruits parents. They love seeing it.
1:08:31
So again, even my age, younger or older, also like social
1:08:35
media. So for me it's it's accepted
1:08:37
because people of all ages do it.
1:08:39
And at one point I was like, am I doing too much?
1:08:41
They're going to be judging me. They think that.
1:08:42
And then I said, you know, I could care less what people
1:08:44
think because it's my personality.
1:08:47
I enjoy it. Then I came up with more
1:08:49
recently and I'm like, oh, my head coach, can I still do it?
1:08:52
I can do it more if I want to because I guess what, I'm the
1:08:54
boss, so I can do what I want, right?
1:08:58
So I'm like, and I have athletes like Bella Witt.
1:09:01
When a girl, one of the ladies on my team, she's like, OK, we
1:09:03
can do this. She's like directing all this
1:09:04
stuff. I came up with gentle coaching
1:09:06
in my head because I see all these people do these fun things
1:09:10
on on like it's like point of view of things of like you're,
1:09:12
you're doing, you're this or that, whatever.
1:09:14
So you know what's kind of funny?
1:09:16
The general parenting thing because it never worked for me,
1:09:17
but it's general coaching and that's I came up with these
1:09:20
ideas and every time I do one, they're literally on the spot.
1:09:24
Just do it as if I don't really write down script.
1:09:27
We just, and I, the kids don't get scripts.
1:09:28
I say kind of do this, do that, let's go.
1:09:31
They're very quick takes. And the last one is the 4 by 4
1:09:34
ones doing great because again, it's satire to a point.
1:09:38
Because it's also kind of true, right?
1:09:41
None of my kids would. Well, I don't know, but
1:09:42
hopefully, you know, it's like, where are they at?
1:09:45
They're hiding in the bathroom. Or they're sick.
1:09:46
Or you. Know, but it is just a thing
1:09:48
that for me it just adds the fun and joy to a sport, right.
1:09:54
So some people don't get it and they're like, why would you?
1:09:56
I'm like, that's such a joke, but I can't reply to everyone
1:09:59
and say no, it means this. I've seen people reply to other
1:10:02
people like, are you kidding me? She's joking, right?
1:10:03
So it's fun. You brought up a great point in
1:10:06
when you said the J word judgement, because here's the
1:10:08
thing, no matter what you do, how you do it, someone is going
1:10:13
to judge it. People have been judging you
1:10:16
your entire life, Joanna, whether it's you had a bad race
1:10:19
and it's like, oh, what's wrong with her?
1:10:21
You hit a hurdle. Oh, it's all over.
1:10:23
Oh, that uniform. I mean, there's so many things.
1:10:25
It doesn't matter. Someone's going to be your hair,
1:10:27
everything. Someone's going to judge.
1:10:29
Who? Cares if you enjoyed it and
1:10:32
you're not hurting anybody. That's my only step.
1:10:34
Obviously, right, that's. The thing then have at it and I
1:10:38
tell you what, what I love about it is you, you you do some
1:10:40
things that are relatable to other coaches.
1:10:41
So like when you talk about that 4x4 the and when other coaches
1:10:44
start doing, you know, almost like you get memed out through
1:10:47
it. Like the hurdle 1.
1:10:49
I believe you're the first one. That's the you're the first one
1:10:51
that I saw and everybody else. Had people to do it and.
1:10:54
Then people like, and then they had their own little twist, like
1:10:55
they, you know, they hop out of the way.
1:10:57
They're like. She's crazy.
1:10:58
I would never do that, Carol. I tagged and I was like, do it.
1:11:00
And then she's like, I was like, you have to do it.
1:11:02
She called like she's like, OK, but can I just like say I don't
1:11:06
trust my athletes? And what I said you can do
1:11:08
whatever you want, do it. And I was like and I was like, I
1:11:10
was like that idea, do it. So she does it.
1:11:12
And it was so. And then I said magazine posted
1:11:15
it. That wasn't the intention.
1:11:17
It was just like they saw it. It was funny.
1:11:19
And again, and I want her and all coaches, but specifically
1:11:23
female coaches right to do it. But and she has the Rep of
1:11:26
being, you know, tough, like you said, she's a little
1:11:28
intimidated, but when you can show that she does have that
1:11:31
softer side, she's really fun. She also.
1:11:33
Has a personality. Yeah, she's fun.
1:11:35
She jokes, she laughs. We have fun together.
1:11:37
So again, I want coaches. This is not a Joanna Hayes
1:11:41
thing. I want women.
1:11:42
If they can dress up, they should dress up and track meets.
1:11:44
If they want to do storage skits and stuff, they should do that.
1:11:47
I think that I, it's for me, it brings attention to the sport.
1:11:50
It brings attention to the female coach.
1:11:52
Every track meet I go to now, every single one, whether it's
1:11:55
student athletes, whether it's little kids, grown up parents,
1:11:58
coaches, they all, Oh, you, oh, you do the thing like the girls
1:12:02
like, you know, they, they see it.
1:12:04
So it becomes a thing. And for me that brings people
1:12:07
together. And if, and I tell people you
1:12:09
should do one and if you want to do one with me, reach out,
1:12:11
right? Because that's for me it's
1:12:13
unity. Track and field is a very
1:12:15
inclusive sport. People have all colors, shapes,
1:12:17
sizes, and it's a very inclusive sport.
1:12:20
And so because of that, I feel like because social media is
1:12:23
what it is, that's a really easy way to get people included
1:12:27
because everyone can do it if they want to have to, but if
1:12:30
they want to, they do it. Joanna, there's so many more
1:12:34
things that I could talk to you about.
1:12:35
I remember impactful for me conversation you and I had at I
1:12:39
think it was during pre was at Oregon about Rye Benjamin and
1:12:43
where again, talk about judgement, what people were
1:12:45
thinking about you and coaching him and where he was doing.
1:12:48
And then you know, you and I talked about like they have no
1:12:50
idea about this and this and this and this and then the next
1:12:53
year he does what he does. He went out and did amazing.
1:12:56
You're amazing coach there. So there's a lot of topics, but
1:12:58
you got to go. So last question here, Joanna,
1:13:00
as you look towards the future and you get to figure out what
1:13:04
future means this season, 5 seasons from now, etcetera.
1:13:07
What's got you excited about UCLA track and field?
1:13:11
You know, what's got me, I mean, I have a really good recruiting
1:13:13
class coming in, right? I have some, I have some great
1:13:15
kids coming in that I'm super excited about that I've been
1:13:19
recruiting some recruiting for a while, some new, you know, and
1:13:22
watching them run is great. You know, and I have some kids
1:13:25
that are getting better that are UCLA here already, kids that are
1:13:29
going to be, you know, I just, you know, you're watching them
1:13:31
like a little bit better. Oh, it's going to, it's coming
1:13:33
up, right. So what I'm really excited about
1:13:35
is just continuing on the legacy I'm trying to build that I'm
1:13:38
that I'm working on and, and hoping that UCLA gets back to my
1:13:44
UCLA. That's, that's really what I'm
1:13:46
looking forward to. And I think it's on the way to
1:13:48
be in my UCLA. And these kids have been, you
1:13:52
know, incredible. Nothing comes without
1:13:53
challenges, right? But my team, I just, I love
1:13:56
their effort. I think that they're really
1:13:57
bought in and they really want to be great and they really want
1:14:01
to represent UCLA and all that stands for not just, you know,
1:14:05
athletically, but culturally, academically and and service
1:14:10
wise and community. So I'm just excited that I don't
1:14:14
know what the future holds, right?
1:14:16
And I'm excited that I get to be in real time watching it unfold,
1:14:21
allowing myself and my coaches grace to make mistakes, knowing
1:14:24
that we all have the same mindset.
1:14:26
We're all looking for success for the kids aren't off the
1:14:28
track. And so, yeah, I'm just like
1:14:30
everything for me. And it's all new.
1:14:32
I can do everything. It's all, it's all coming back,
1:14:34
right? Every time I do something just
1:14:36
greater and graders, so I'm looking for greatness.
1:14:38
I think it's coming. I'm an aggressively patient
1:14:41
person, which means I get it. It's not going to happen
1:14:44
overnight when I exactly when I want it, but I'm going to go for
1:14:47
it. I'm going to go all in.
1:14:48
And then if it doesn't happen, I'll just do it again and keep
1:14:51
doing it till it does happen. And that's what I tell my kids.
1:14:53
Don't, don't wait for it, but understand if it doesn't come,
1:14:59
don't quit, right? Don't quit.
1:15:01
LAUCLAUSC, all these kind of things.
1:15:03
The one stereotype that is true is LA traffic, and she's got to
1:15:07
get into it. She used the new term.
1:15:08
I haven't heard aggressively patient.
1:15:10
And I immediately thought about someone in that LA gridlock.
1:15:13
I've been there and I'd never want to do that again.
1:15:16
So Joanna, thank you so much. The most valuable thing in the
1:15:19
world you can give me is your time.
1:15:20
And I'm just so grateful for you and just really excited for you
1:15:24
to see you continue develop as a coach at UCLA, the private
1:15:27
coaching you do, and as a leader inside of our NCAA track and
1:15:31
field. So thank you so much for being
1:15:32
with us today and sharing your story.
1:15:33
Yeah, thank you for having me. It was great.
1:15:36
Love talking to you. See you soon.
1:15:37
And. Guys and gals, thank you so much
1:15:39
for being here. We mentioned, you know, it is
1:15:41
kind of funny, A. Lot of UCLA alum here, but a lot
1:15:43
of the people she mentioned, Brooks Johnson, John Godina,
1:15:47
Carol Smith, Gilbert Mouse, are all podcast alums here.
1:15:51
So if you are excited to learn about their journey, just look
1:15:53
at the same app that you're using here and you'll find their
1:15:55
journeys there. So thanks again for joining us
1:15:57
this week. Join us next week.
1:15:58
We'll do it all over again. See you guys if it.
1:16:04
Goes to appreciate the coach, the ones that pour people most.
1:16:07
Every season leads the voice of reason speaking the growth got
1:16:10
to prep before you carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
1:16:13
For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
1:16:16
zone which you packing for the road.
1:16:18
There's more than one way to go taking those that's paying.
1:16:21
You're told it ain't practice if you purchase St.
1:16:23
Clair. It can't happen until you listen
1:16:25
with both is can't mentor without a mentor here of
1:16:29
experience You can reinvent those years every plan's got to
1:16:32
stand and deliver to and the price sacrifice can you give up
1:16:35
you. It's a choice and a fight, not a
1:16:37
win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
1:16:39
Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to it's all
1:16:42
about why you don't know till you know who you are inside
1:16:46
6,000,000 waste of time, choose none so y'all cross the finish
1:16:49
line. The work ain't done so we learn
1:16:51
from the experts but y'all got to put in the leg work.
1:16:54
Guil athletics use the network. It's all about connections put
1:16:57
together for the profession to where every track coach could be
1:17:00
blessing.