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Indefensible unforgivable · Foster Care Uncovered

0:19
Hi everybody, well here we are on Wednesday the
0:23
26th of November, the new government statistics.
0:28
landed this morning so welcome to foster care
0:31
uncovered this is an emergency podcast i'm joined
0:35
by my co -host louise allen as always looking
0:41
very natty today louise good job they can't see
0:44
us i'm wearing a rock and roll jumper and i look
0:47
like i've been dragged through a hedge backwards
0:49
I feel like I have been dragged through a hedge
0:52
backwards this morning on reading these statistics.
0:56
I'm sort of really hoping, given the level of
1:00
government investment, was I hoping or did I
1:05
know? I don't know. Anyway, I was sort of thinking,
1:07
well, that money did go somewhere. So let's hope.
1:11
But no. It's really, really depressing. We've
1:14
got a fourth consecutive year of decline in mainstream
1:18
fostering households. They do talk about, oh,
1:21
it's a small net losses and, you know, 700 here,
1:25
there, 700. But honestly, it's in the big scheme
1:30
of things, the fact that we haven't got thousands
1:33
more is depressing. First, because of the level
1:35
investment, you know, not just into recruitment,
1:39
but into big... big enormous hugely expensive
1:43
um retention models like mockingbird which actually
1:47
only serve four percent of the foster care foster
1:50
care workforce um you know these huge amounts
1:53
of money going in and it's not that it's just
1:57
a small decrease on last year The frightening
2:01
thing is there's no big increase. Whoever you
2:05
listen to, whichever stat you like, whether you
2:08
like fostering networks and the government, which
2:10
say 6 ,500 care is short, or you go to something
2:14
like the independent research by the Social Market
2:17
Foundation, they actually say it's something
2:20
like three times higher than that, the real need.
2:24
The government are doing this sort of small net
2:27
change, but it's really important that, we recognise
2:31
that in the big scheme of things, it's a complete
2:35
disaster. Yeah, well, I had a look this morning,
2:39
Sarah, and, you know, they are artful at spin,
2:43
aren't they? And the PR is, you know, quite good.
2:47
But to me, it just looks like failure. It is.
2:50
And I can write for you now, if you like. I can
2:54
write the response from Josh McAllister, the
2:58
Children's Minister. That will be, yes, look
3:01
at the terrible figures and that's why I'm going
3:03
to fix it all. But, you know, we saw from our
3:06
podcast, didn't we, with Joe Hanley, that actually
3:09
these major players have been part of it for
3:12
years. And, you know, to suddenly say, I've just
3:18
become minister. This is all new to me. I'm going
3:20
to fix it, fix it. Isn't true. Josh, if you're
3:23
listening, please get in touch with us because
3:26
we can help and we want to help. Well, Sarah,
3:30
didn't you? You wrote to Josh McAllister a while
3:33
ago, didn't you? And got a sort of reasonably
3:34
bland. The first email I got the, you know, the
3:39
thanks, but no thanks. Or we'll fit you in if
3:41
we can. But I saw him fitting in all the other
3:44
fostering support organisations that are run
3:46
by social workers. have really, in my opinion,
3:51
brought us to this point anyway. And then we
3:55
wrote another open letter to Josh, but we've
4:00
not had any response at all to that one. Now,
4:03
the fostering networks, you know, we have to
4:07
talk about them. They've been massive in this
4:10
sector, very influential, get a lot of funding.
4:14
Their response will be... The same as it is every
4:19
single year. Oh, we need to support and value
4:22
our foster carers. Oh, we need more education.
4:27
Oh, we need, you know, we need better support.
4:32
We need more Mockingbird, you know. I mean, what
4:35
do you think? Well, I think I've heard all this
4:39
before and it's very tiresome. It's quite demoralising.
4:43
And as the fostering... workforce you know put
4:48
yourself in our shoes you know we want to be
4:51
celebrated we want to be good at what we do and
4:54
all we hear is that we're diminishing and it
4:57
feels like we're on the titanic you know me and
5:00
you sarah be standing at the end with our arms
5:03
out singing as the orchestra goes down the orchestra
5:07
representing social workers but listen you would
5:11
you get a lifeboat because you're only a foster
5:13
carer Oh, I would just get a life jacket. You
5:19
would be in the other lifeboat. There'd be all
5:22
the important people and the women and children
5:25
and there'd be the band. There'd be this last
5:29
lifeboat that deflates easily. There's called
5:33
Other. And I do some wafty synchronised swimming
5:37
to amuse myself and all the children that will
5:40
be going down with me because that's therapeutic
5:42
and kind. I'm laughing, but I think it's hysteria
5:46
more than anything. You know, this is deeply
5:49
depressing, deeply concerning. And come on, government,
5:52
come on all the great and good. Well, the great
5:54
and good that you keep telling us you're the
5:56
great and good. We can do better and we can help
5:58
you. You've just got to get over yourselves and
6:01
reach out and ask us. Do you think that they
6:04
will get over themselves? And do you think that
6:07
they'll reach out if we tell them to care? Should
6:09
we change that? We're not telling you to get
6:11
over yourselves. Please contact us so that we
6:14
can be helpful. But you get fed up with it in
6:17
the end, don't you? Because it's just a lost
6:19
cause. We try and we try and we try. I mean,
6:22
we've finally got a key stakeholder place at
6:24
the government, but only really for some... peripheral
6:28
kind of meetings we're not on the board there's
6:31
no representation of foster carers on the board
6:33
none which is staggering considering it's a fostering
6:37
board we've been trying for years together with
6:40
others independently we've asked in every single
6:44
way we've we've turned up we've smiled we've
6:47
you know we we behave like it's crumbs under
6:50
the table thank you for your crumbs thank you
6:54
for your stale crumbs that you that on the floor
6:57
but we're very appreciative of those yes give
7:00
us more of your crumbs please do i don't know
7:03
i don't know i mean as a human being just a regular
7:08
human being i can only take this for so long
7:11
and it's not just me it's as we always say the
7:15
people at the end of this are the children every
7:18
year they get it wrong that's another Raft of
7:24
children squeezed out the sector or squeezed
7:27
in prison to, you know, care to prison pipeline.
7:31
Yeah. Care experience. I noticed that's interesting
7:34
this week as well. He's just seemed to abandon
7:36
everybody, including all the promises he made
7:38
to the players that were, you know, players.
7:42
I don't mean that, but the. ex care the care
7:45
experience people who were worked tirelessly
7:49
for getting care to be a protected characteristic
7:52
and he kind of rolled along with that as though
7:55
it was all going to happen and they were terribly
7:57
enthusiastic then he got made children's minister
8:00
and it was i mean you know you wonder they those
8:02
are the sort of people that help get him there
8:05
and now suddenly they've been dumped on that
8:08
one You know, as I'm sitting here, my rock and
8:12
roll jumper, and I am an ex -punk rocker, and
8:14
I am an artist, so I'm a little bit kind of rebellious
8:20
by nature. But one of my key issues about all
8:25
of this is that children should not be in the
8:27
political arena. At all. Children should not
8:31
be political or financial fodder. And that is
8:34
what they have become. Their money is now, you
8:37
know, gets so murky, as we found out a little
8:40
bit from Joe last week. What are the money, honey?
8:44
See what's going on. If they, I mean, I would
8:47
put it out to, you don't have to, Sarah, because
8:49
I know that you're far more. Gracious, and I
8:53
am. But come on, if you want this to improve,
8:56
talk to us because we have the answers, the connections
9:00
within, not the connections up at the clubs and
9:04
the societies. We have connections with all the
9:06
foster carers and potential foster carers. Without
9:09
whom, it doesn't exist. No, they're the connections
9:15
they need. So come on. Come on. Let's look at
9:19
this early churn and the applications because
9:22
it has a big bearing on the whole thing. You
9:26
know, I think that when, you know, when this,
9:32
where do we get to on the early churn? Do you
9:35
see what I mean? We just go off on a tangent,
9:37
don't we? Yeah. So 8 ,290. Are we got? I'll tell
9:43
you where we got stuck on the 138 ,000. We went
9:46
off peace dead. There were 138 ,000 people who
9:49
expressed interest in fostering. Last year. Last
9:52
year. They've not revealed. Yeah, but they, I
9:55
know, but this year they haven't revealed those
9:57
figures because you know why? Out of the 138
10:01
,000, you're telling me out of those people,
10:04
considering all you need to foster these days
10:07
is a spare room and a pulse. Are you telling
10:10
me that? 133 000 130 000 weren't suitable anyway
10:18
so that figure's missing this year so out of
10:22
those you know 61 percent of applicant at um
10:27
of assessment journeys were stopped basically
10:31
they withdrew 70 withdrew themselves wow all
10:37
that we had out of eight thousand two hundred
10:40
and ninety people going into assessment, we were
10:44
left with 2 ,900 new carers. Wow. Wow. Oh, dear.
10:52
And I've done all the sums and added in the ones
10:54
and the percentages of those that haven't finished,
10:57
because that makes you laugh as well, doesn't
10:59
it? Considering these stats ended in March 25,
11:05
apparently... A fair number hadn't even finished
11:09
their assessments by then. That's how long they're
11:13
taking. The reasons with withdrawal, change in
11:18
household circumstances, nothing specified, unknown,
11:22
fostering process not as expected. I mean, I
11:27
get frequently every week. people contacting
11:31
us i think they go on google and they see foster
11:33
wiki they contact us and say we're on this assessment
11:37
process we have to either try and guide them
11:41
through or we have to try and pick up the terrible
11:44
pieces of what's been left but i won't go into
11:48
that now because our next episode is actually
11:51
on the form f and i can't wait for that because
11:55
it's doing um So the outcomes are that only 34
12:00
% of people that went into assessment became
12:04
approved carers. Wow. That's shocking, isn't
12:08
it? And deeply concerning. And you say, so can
12:12
we just, you know, help me out, Sarah. I haven't
12:14
had enough coffee. It's far too early and it's
12:16
an emergency. So if 138 ,000 people expressed
12:23
their interest last year, And the year before.
12:28
So why aren't there any stats on that this year?
12:32
I know. Why would they miss it out this year?
12:34
Because I think because it's frankly quite embarrassing.
12:38
Well, you know, they've got 2 ,900 carers out
12:42
of 138 ,000 inquiries. I'd be a bit embarrassed.
12:47
Yeah, I know. And also that great thing, which
12:50
I use regularly in my books, no data, no problem.
12:53
Yeah. Yeah. Then there's us. And then you look
13:01
at that and you think, well, this, you know,
13:04
I find this alarming, beyond alarming. And I
13:06
know that government is very good at sort of
13:08
shoving things down the back of the sofa and
13:11
under cushions. But this is concerning. We get
13:17
on to in a minute because, you know, I just read
13:19
the other stats about residential homes, but
13:23
we're leading up to that. It's depressing. It's
13:27
seriously depressing. And for my fellow foster
13:30
carers who are active right now, you know, we're
13:32
the ones that recruit, not adverts. Always been
13:36
the recruit. And that's the problem now. 70 odd
13:38
percent of carers won't. recommend to anybody
13:41
you know a few bright -eyed bushy -tailed ones
13:43
who are the sort of favorites and doing well
13:45
and it's all going terribly nicely but like we
13:48
say in fostering it's all right till it isn't
13:50
that early churn as well do you know it's another
13:53
stat that's missing how many newly approved carers
13:59
leave within 12 to 18 months we've always had
14:02
that figure and it's always around 30 i mean
14:04
a third so they go through all of that so 2 ,900
14:08
carers get approved It costs hundreds of thousands
14:12
of pounds to do it. A full meth costs 10 ,000.
14:15
They do, they say. I think that's a conservative
14:19
amount. When you think that a third of those
14:24
carers are then gone in 12 to 18 months, and
14:28
come on, we know a lot of the reasons why. They've
14:31
had allegations because they've done things they
14:33
didn't know. they weren't allowed to do or the
14:35
support has been so dire. They've been left traumatized.
14:40
And, you know, I mean, let's face it. Some of
14:43
them accept a child onto their doorstep and the
14:46
social worker runs for the hills. But you can
14:48
barely more than a first aid certificate. Well,
14:50
I remember being, it was described to me brilliantly
14:54
by a woman who just did that. And her husband,
14:56
they left after their first, the first child
14:59
that was in their house with a very, dodgy referral
15:04
which left out a few key key clues to how a couple
15:08
of the key issues missing there then yeah and
15:11
they described it as as as uh the the recruitment
15:14
process of fostering was being sold the idea
15:18
that you're going to stay in a five or six star
15:21
hotel where people would be wafting around, helping
15:24
you, serving you. Your needs will be met. You'll
15:27
have, you know, Egyptian cutting sheets. You'll
15:31
have a pool. You'll have, you know, cocktails.
15:34
Six, you'll have beautiful food, but the reality
15:37
is they are sold a rip tent by the motorway.
15:41
Yeah, yeah. And sadly, I think what, you know,
15:45
what we all feel, most of us, apart from the
15:47
ones who might have a need to be light and like
15:51
ourselves, is that the reality is shocking. The
15:56
lack of support is shocking. And we'll go into
15:58
that another time about why that happens. That
16:01
is why you get this. churn of so if you think
16:05
2 ,900 say 3 ,000 being generous new carers come
16:10
in across the whole of yeah um of England and
16:13
more go out of course um you think about that
16:17
in a within a year a thousand of those are gone
16:21
Yeah. Because of all these terrible problems.
16:24
And mostly, I'd say, from my experience, and
16:27
it is extensive, most of them are finding it's
16:30
not what they were sold, as it were. And I'm
16:32
not talking about the children. The children
16:35
can't help it. They are traumatised beyond anything
16:39
we can imagine. And the carers are not prepared
16:43
for what happens. They're sold this stuff. You're
16:48
disappointed. You feel a bit of a fool, I think,
16:50
because you buy into the idea of, you know, I've
16:55
done it. I've seen carers do it again and again
16:57
when I work with and I help educate and train
17:00
foster carers. One of the things I say is. Only
17:04
allow your dream to go so far because it's very
17:07
easy to start visualizing these children that
17:11
come into your life. These children that you
17:13
are going to, you know, they're going to represent
17:16
you. They're going to to love you. They're going
17:20
to you're going to be grateful. As my husband
17:25
said, don't even go there. I've got my lovely
17:28
home. You buy in, you invest socially. They're
17:32
just going to love it when they get here because
17:34
it's going to be so much nicer than their own
17:36
homes. And that's not educated any different.
17:41
The ridiculous thing is that when you start,
17:45
you get love -bombed. When you make an inquiry,
17:48
you get literally love -bombed. You're the provider.
17:53
Oh, you're amazing. Oh, look, you've got two
17:55
cars. What they're looking at is like, how can
17:58
I exploit you as much as possible? I can see
18:01
another bedroom. Surely you can turn that cupboard
18:04
into another room and then we can turn this into
18:06
a semi -children's home. But the other thing
18:10
is, we've got to remember the big corporate business
18:12
models. To actually expect any different is...
18:16
That's part of the problem. It's unrealistic
18:18
to think that there are anything other than the
18:21
big corporate business models, both IFA and local
18:24
authority. So you need to come in with that head
18:28
on, not get love bombed into. you know, and this
18:33
cult -like assessment process, your love bombed
18:37
into the cult and then you suddenly realise when
18:39
you get in, it's just control, ownership, you
18:42
know, do as you're told or you're out. If you
18:44
disagree with them or you... If you want something
18:48
else, you're shunned. I'm sure there are people
18:50
shouting at the podcast going, oh, how can you
18:53
even begin to say cult? But, you know, there
18:56
are some similarities. Well, you just look at
18:59
the model of a cult, you know, that goes a long
19:01
way. You know, that pattern, that model will
19:04
go into many different organisations, not necessarily
19:07
religious either. I think the failure is that
19:12
you, I felt, you know, and you know me, I'm quite
19:16
a feminist and I, you know, I like standing up
19:18
for myself. And I could not believe after years
19:24
of independence, financially independent, married,
19:28
we have our own bank accounts. The way I was
19:32
spoken to. by women who are the the the kind
19:37
of mediators for for these organizations about
19:41
my the expectations of me to stay at home to
19:44
give up my work to they turn you into something
19:48
you are not and i think that that when you foster
19:51
carer that yeah and you're just a foster carer
19:55
they diminish you they minimalize you into this
19:57
more sort of a human being and they and you become
20:01
something which you know, the rest of us are
20:04
wriggling away from because that model is dead.
20:06
That model is homogeny. So this whole model of
20:10
it. Yeah, I mean, 85, correct me if I'm wrong,
20:14
but 85 % of foster carers are women. Of course
20:17
they are. And hang on to all those men listening
20:20
out there. We're not, you know, the amazing role
20:24
you play and also the same treatment that you
20:26
get, but just saying that, you know, it is a
20:28
hugely. represented usually the main carers are
20:31
the women yeah i mean that early churn is is
20:36
so concerning and what's even more concerning
20:39
is there's another stat that's been removed they
20:42
will say oh it's because we because it's just
20:45
not a reliable statistic but probably just they'll
20:49
say that about the 138 000 as well. I think it
20:54
is a reliable statistic based on the extensive
20:58
interaction I have with carers, new carers, specifically
21:01
around the country on a daily basis. And, you
21:06
know, we know why that churn is there. It's something
21:09
you need really addressing. Should we get on
21:12
to the money? Oh, yes. I just cobbled it together
21:18
today, making sure it was factual because...
21:21
It has to be. Someone's got to do it. The government
21:26
have invested since 2021, 76 invested and committed
21:34
and pledged 76 million for fostering recruitment
21:38
and retention. Wow. 2023, it was 27 million and
21:44
8 .5 million added late 23. That is two years
21:47
ago now. Yeah. 2024, the budget, 44 million for
21:54
the fund for fostering and kinship. 25, 26, they've
22:00
committed another 15 million and 26, 28, 25 million
22:05
pledged. Now, this so far has all gone to. A
22:13
company that won the contract. Not all of it.
22:16
Some of it's gone to the smaller versions of
22:19
this. Mutual Ventures that won the contract to
22:24
roll out the regional recruitment hubs, which
22:28
I think they're only doing in certain places
22:30
still. Now, for want of a better word, they haven't
22:33
worked, have they? Not looking for this thing.
22:37
Not looking very positive, no. 76 million is
22:42
a bit unfair because some of it hasn't been spent
22:43
yet, although I've got a feeling it's earmarked.
22:46
So what we get is this fostering regional hubs,
22:51
plus a bit's gone in tiny dribs and drabs to
22:54
other local authorities to replicate the hub
22:57
idea. And then, of course, where does the retention
23:00
money go to? To Mockingbird, run by the Fostering
23:04
Network, which has been in this country for 12,
23:07
13 years. been a success in 12, 13 years. I don't
23:13
know why they're throwing more money at it. It
23:15
only serves 4 % of the population of foster carers.
23:19
That is so not inclusive. 96 % of carers with
23:25
no proper support like that. i did a little bit
23:32
of uh because i when i when i discovered that
23:35
mockingbird was coming back out the cupboard
23:36
again and they were shaking it off and they were
23:39
going to use it as as uh they were it was it
23:42
same meat different gravy and i and i kind of
23:45
did a little call out to nationally to my my
23:49
allies foster carers and said right who's doing
23:54
mockingbird and i could see that it was mainly
23:58
in in in in demographics which were critical
24:04
mass, so that's densely populated areas. And
24:08
this is their rhetoric, not mine. It kind of
24:11
works because we can walk to each other's houses.
24:14
Now, if you're living in other areas, which are
24:19
towns, rural or even less urban and less critical.
24:25
to do to make the mockingbird model work you
24:29
would spend most of your time driving you know
24:33
and you don't and what is this artificial friendship
24:37
i mean yeah that's that's a big problem fostering
24:41
um i remember going to those training sessions
24:44
with my husband and you would look at you know
24:46
it's like being a first day at school isn't it
24:48
or first day college you go in you're looking
24:50
for your allies you're looking for your buddies
24:53
Is that human nature? No, of course it is. The
24:57
ones we met those days are still our friends
25:01
because we had a connection. You cannot keep...
25:07
artificially forcing a connection especially
25:09
around children because then we're assuming as
25:12
they do in foster care that all the children
25:14
are going to like each other and get on they
25:16
do not they do not I mean I don't know about
25:22
you but 50 % of children in care are teenagers
25:25
now would any of your teens want to go off to
25:27
barbecues with the Mockingbird Hub? Certainly
25:30
no way A million years. I don't actually want
25:35
to do it myself, but that's... I can see the
25:37
strength in that advice. Look, some people it
25:40
works for, but a tiny, tiny majority. A tiny,
25:43
tiny... About 4%, I'd say. Yeah, 4%. But throwing
25:47
more money at it, because the other thing about
25:50
it is it's cumbersome, it's very expensive, you
25:54
know, and throwing more money at it takes a slow,
25:59
slow set -up. isn't going to suddenly throw more
26:03
money at it isn't the answer that's not going
26:05
to make it better the other thing is a sad thing
26:08
about this is and i have plenty of evidence to
26:11
back this up they hide all the negative and failings
26:15
that have happened yeah so all they do is they
26:19
go to the government go to josh mccallison they
26:21
take along you know a couple of mockingbird hub
26:24
carers that are enjoying it and it's going well
26:27
for them and they think it's great and that's
26:31
the only message the government get to carers
26:35
both cub leaders it's not you know it is i don't
26:41
quite understand it do you no i don't well i'm
26:45
just i was listening to that thinking well i'm
26:47
still looking at these figures in front of me
26:50
Sarah and so I keep seeing in bold 76 million
26:54
wouldn't that be nice if that could some of that
26:57
had gone straight to the children and improve
27:00
their lives you know let me tell you something
27:02
this is absolutely true is that uh my in my own
27:08
home I have heard social workers say to my children
27:14
when they do their monthly hour because that's
27:16
what social work is now they they drop in and
27:19
ask those awkward questions. They all say what
27:22
each other want to hear. And they said, let's
27:25
go to Costa. And there are other coffee shops
27:27
available. They said, let's go to that one. But
27:30
I must say that this time, you know, you mustn't
27:33
have cake. We can no longer afford cake. what
27:37
are you i mean while saying if you're spending
27:39
76 million on on big consultancy firms but the
27:44
other thing is why hasn't it worked that's what
27:47
we need i mean 76 million is fine if it works
27:50
and then yeah great i'll hold my hand up and
27:53
say you did it it's fantastic but this money
27:56
is handed to organizations run mostly by people
27:59
who have never fostered yep Just as the support
28:02
organisations for fostering, the traditional
28:07
ones, have never fostered their social workers.
28:11
Now, social workers are great. I know lots of
28:15
really, really good ones. I'm not saying that.
28:17
But how would they feel if their support organisation
28:20
was run by foster carers? It's the same thing.
28:24
I admit that the big organisation that say Fostering
28:28
Network is about foster care in general, but
28:30
then don't pretend you're supporting foster carers.
28:32
Maybe they're spreading themselves too thin and
28:35
that they should give up that part of it and
28:40
say others support foster carers. We will work
28:44
on, you know, speaking to the government, on
28:47
supporting children, on ticking the box and doing
28:49
all this kind of stuff that they do, fostering
28:51
fortnight. I think the problem is that the majority
28:55
of their funding stream comes from this support
28:59
of foster carers. That's a discussion for another
29:05
day. Let's go straight to it. If you look at
29:10
the recruitment and retention, both need marketing.
29:15
You cannot sit on your laurels and just go, we've
29:18
got a foster carer. So now we treat them badly.
29:20
We don't treat them at all. But the marketing
29:23
is really interesting. And I've watched over
29:26
the last, I think it's three or four years, lots
29:28
of campaigns because I used to work in marketing.
29:31
I have a little marketing agency myself. And
29:34
I see the latest one is. Recruit to teachers.
29:39
You know, there's a kind of now being put on
29:42
deeply pressurised teachers. I know, but until
29:46
we get the assessment right, the advertising
29:49
right, the narrative right, teachers will be
29:51
like, oh, no, that's not for me. Not only that,
29:55
teachers know how children's social care is failing.
29:58
So then already we'll be going, no, thank you.
30:02
Many, many, many, many teachers. Many of my friends
30:05
are teachers. And they've seen this and they've
30:09
all reported back, no way. No way. I'm not, because
30:13
I know you. I support your children. You and
30:17
I, that's what, you know, it's our... vision
30:21
is to change all of that but we need help we
30:24
need help we can do it we can get more professional
30:26
people in but we need help we have to change
30:28
the narrative we have to change the systems we
30:31
have to change the ridiculous assessment form
30:33
f process i mean the other thing about these
30:36
recruitment campaigns is and this is a real one
30:40
And they make, my heart sinks every time I saw
30:42
them. And they talk about wanting teachers in.
30:44
The latest one, well, one of the latest ones
30:47
from this regional recruitment hubs run by Mutual
30:50
Ventures was a lady sprinkling cupcakes. And
30:55
it said, cupcakes and sprinkles. All the children
30:59
need is your every day. What? And I'm like, no.
31:06
They just don't need your just every day. I think
31:09
that might have something to do with the failure.
31:13
Just need some cupcakes and some sprinkles. Saying
31:17
that you might, in the big scheme of things,
31:21
do a bit of baking with them every now and then,
31:22
which I never have. I was on a downward slide
31:26
anyway since we spoke this morning, but that's
31:28
just insulting. It's really insulting, isn't
31:31
it? I mean, how many parents sent me that and
31:33
said, Are you kidding? It's a government advert.
31:36
It's so insulting. So you're not only not recruiting
31:40
because people are going, oh, no, I don't fancy
31:42
that, especially the professional people that
31:45
have transferable skills. Everybody's important,
31:48
but there are demographics we're not reaching.
31:51
So tough cakes and sprinkles. I've seen a few
31:54
others. I've seen a recent one from an IFA promoting
32:00
to professionals. And I really chuckled because
32:03
they targeted. professionals a what do you mean
32:06
by that and you know most people i know who are
32:09
professionals means that they're used to protocols
32:11
processes standards and then they'd meet children's
32:16
social care and then they go What is this place?
32:19
I'm running to the hills. And what they don't
32:21
want and what we have learned is that when you
32:24
do come from a professional background, you're
32:27
more likely to ask difficult questions. They
32:30
don't like you to come from a professional background.
32:35
You either have to dumb yourself down or you
32:39
have to be aware that you're going to get quite
32:42
a bit of pushback. And sometimes that pushback
32:45
gets ugly. If they really want you out because
32:48
you think you know too much. I mean, let's not.
32:51
People will be listening to this, especially
32:53
local authorities, especially directors and people
32:56
like that who have no connection with the front
32:58
line saying. oh you know what an exaggeration
33:01
these two they're just out to destroy foster
33:03
care you know no we're out to improve foster
33:06
care to change that culture to make sure that
33:09
our children have enough families to go to but
33:12
we can't do that without fixing it and as you
33:15
see this morning listen as my voice goes up 10
33:18
decibels and i get faster and faster um you know
33:23
Those campaigns do not reflect the realities
33:26
of foster care. People say, oh, you couldn't
33:28
reflect the realities, nobody would do it then.
33:30
Well, first of all, that's false advertising
33:32
then. If they think the realities are so shocking,
33:35
they need to get people in by saying it's cupcakes
33:38
and sprinkles, then spring it on them. No wonder
33:41
30 % go. But the reality of foster care is actually,
33:46
it's different, but it's just as good. And it's
33:51
just, it's much more meaningful. I know, I know.
33:56
And Sarah, I've seen people targeted for fostering
34:01
in wheelchairs. I've seen, I watched a film in
34:04
my own area of a man in his 80s promoting fostering.
34:09
It's all absolutely crazy. Or they say I'll earn
34:11
£120 ,000 a year or something and try the money
34:16
angle. It's just depressing, isn't it? It's so
34:18
depressing. It's so depressing. But you see,
34:21
the thing is what it all reveals. Sarah, to me
34:24
is a complete lack of imagination, a complete
34:30
lack of collaboration, if I might add that. Well,
34:34
that is imagination, isn't it? You would naturally
34:37
start drawing on people that can make your project
34:41
or your ambition look good. In my world, I don't
34:45
stay in my bubble. in my writing world, my creative
34:50
world and my business world. I don't stay in
34:51
my little bubble where they all go, yes, I totally
34:54
agree with you, Louise. I listen to people who
34:56
go, Louise, I think you're mad. And I go, why?
35:00
Tell me because this is going to help improve.
35:02
Why are they so scared of talking to the people
35:07
who know what to do and how to do it? And I keep
35:11
going back to the money because if you, you know,
35:15
I'm looking at 76 million pounds. I've been watching
35:19
the adverts going round and round. I've been
35:22
listening to people and we're still short. We're
35:26
still finding in numbers. There's no way whatever
35:30
spin you want to put on this, it's failing. So
35:35
please open your heart and talk to the people
35:39
who do it, not just your selected little group,
35:42
but people who will challenge your thinking.
35:45
Yeah, but I think that's the problem. They don't
35:48
want to be challenged. I mean, I've met with
35:49
lots of local authorities and IFAs and staff,
35:52
even the very biggest ones. They don't want to
35:56
hear any of it. They make you out, they gaslight
35:59
you and make out that it's all fantastic where
36:02
they are, even if one is deemed inadequate. But
36:05
the outstanding ones that aren't outstanding
36:08
as far as a foster carer is concerned, these
36:09
are organisations that rely on foster carers
36:12
to even exist. But there's another big money
36:15
thing here. Foster carers are worth around £250
36:21
,000 each. on the value of an independent paper
36:26
yeah and in local authorities there are you know
36:29
like hen's teeth so they they when they get them
36:33
they don't want to lose them so they don't let
36:37
anybody who looks like jeopardising the control
36:41
they have over the fostering workforce. So you
36:45
go in and being a bit feisty or saying, let's
36:47
help you, we'll change things, or let us support
36:50
your carers. They'll be like, oh, no, no, we
36:52
need to do that. No, we just want compliant,
36:55
quiet, vulnerable people. And it's interesting
36:59
because I've experienced this because we've been
37:02
in a few IFAs and we've done local authorities
37:05
and this will come out a lot more in the form.
37:08
Don't worry, those that recognize me, I won't
37:10
name you. Is there an element of perhaps when
37:15
you recruit, if you're an IFA, looking at Rufus
37:18
business model and I want to make tons and tons
37:20
and tons of money because that's what people
37:23
do. I can see that's not true either because
37:26
you do make a lot of money, but that should not
37:28
be your sole intention. And we can quickly see
37:31
the ones whose sole intention is. They reveal
37:34
themselves. If you recruit loads of foster carers,
37:40
or just a few, worth 200k, which is great on
37:43
your paperwork, are you not stockpiling? Well,
37:49
maybe that brings us out into the local authority,
37:53
even if you've not given them any placement.
37:55
It is about stockpiling. I mean, let's have a
37:57
look. I think that's a really, it's a segue.
38:01
It's a segue. The one of the figures in here
38:06
as well is that I think this is in the last five
38:12
years. OK, 42 ,000 foster beds, you know, were
38:17
filled. 12 ,000 were vacant and 14 ,400 were
38:23
not available for unclear reasons. That is massive.
38:31
What's that, the cats taking over the bed or
38:33
something? Yeah, maybe COVID. It was COVID. Oh,
38:37
yeah. Yeah, it was a pandemic and they didn't
38:40
have a spare room. Oh, yes, they did have a spare
38:42
room, but it wasn't vacant. I mean, just the
38:45
excuses. And I think we have this blame culture,
38:48
too, where it's never anybody's fault. It's always
38:51
COVID, the pandemic. It's the socioeconomic landscape.
38:54
It's everything but what's really going on. those
39:00
vacant places now one of those actually you had
39:03
your experience you had it for a year oh yes
39:06
remember when i first met you no i've had it
39:10
several times through an entire year's savings
39:12
because they said give up your job and every
39:14
week they'd say it's definitely someone coming
39:16
and then they sort of make up a place to keep
39:19
you on the hook uh annoying putting it mildly
39:23
but yes you see I am from the care system people
39:26
like me don't get uh inheritances and trust funds
39:29
every penny matters to us and we have to generate
39:32
it ourselves so I and I was we were living off
39:35
my savings while we didn't have a placement and
39:38
I'd keep phoning out going anything through yet
39:40
because we keep hearing loads of children coming
39:43
into care desperately need foster care but I've
39:46
got I at the time I had three beds Beautiful
39:50
rooms. And they used to say things, well, it
39:53
might be your location. You said my location
39:57
was fantastic when we were at Love Bombs Day.
39:59
Might be the age group of children. And you said
40:01
that you had hundreds of children that age. Yeah.
40:04
And then it was like, oh, you've got a dog. But
40:06
I have a Jack Russell Chihuahua. And I had that
40:10
when you assessed me. And they were, it was every
40:14
excuse. Did you let it go on for a year? Went
40:17
on for a year, then we left. And then what? Had
40:20
to do the full myth all over again. I've done
40:22
four full myths with Lloyd, my husband, who,
40:26
if you read my books, is also in there. We've
40:28
done four. My whole family go through it. And
40:31
then you have to keep asking all your friends
40:32
again to write another. Even though you are thoroughly.
40:37
um assessed registered current approval all over
40:43
again and they wonder why these figures are so
40:45
bad but we are going to come to that in the form
40:48
we're going to do the format because my word
40:50
that is a big one to get is a big one and also
40:53
i think that one for people listening think oh
40:55
the form f i did that ages ago it's not actually
40:58
about specifically about the four methods how
41:02
it starts your fostering journey what you're
41:04
perceived as from there in what what um the culture
41:10
it it makes and the power imbalance it sets up
41:15
so that you're aware of that anyway we're going
41:17
to that i want to go back into the to the the
41:20
empty beds yeah They were trying to recruit foster
41:25
carers, but we have foster carers with empty
41:28
beds. I don't want to say we need to do a little
41:32
piece of work on that because I'm sick of pieces
41:34
of work. What I'm talking about is, come on,
41:38
why have you got empty beds? Why are you punishing
41:41
foster carers economically? There's so many reasons.
41:47
Why are you spending money on recruiting new
41:49
foster carers when we have... beds available
41:52
rooms available what is going on is this down
41:56
to individual organizations social workers their
41:59
managers making a kind of summary themselves
42:02
of whether a foster family should have a child
42:05
in their life you know you can have one child
42:08
i mean we've been in a situation where we had
42:10
one child and then another child went and then
42:13
we had an empty bed for a year You see, also
42:19
what's happening is things like... Allegations,
42:23
don't underestimate that. That's 3 ,000 allegations
42:27
a year. That puts carers ridiculously for no
42:30
reason out of, I'm not talking child protection
42:32
here. That's another podcast, isn't it? But you
42:36
get the allegation system with the empty beds.
42:39
You also get situations like somebody's got a
42:44
blacklist because they've been a bit outspoken
42:46
or they won't take a teenager so they're not
42:51
going to get the baby. Or they won't, even though
42:54
they only ever said they would do babies. Or
42:57
things like, also, believe it or not, this is
43:01
one, the terrible miscommunication within local
43:06
authorities and agencies. Sometimes they haven't
43:08
got a clue where the empty beds are. Apparently
43:10
they need a national register to do that. But
43:13
I'm like, what? surely it should be more simple
43:18
but look, shall we move on because we're nearly
43:20
at the end now I think that one thing I wanted
43:24
to mention is that 21 % of fostering households
43:27
are kinship care and that this has remained pretty
43:30
the same despite this huge push for kinship care
43:35
dial hasn't moved at all but what I would like
43:38
to say, especially to all the hard working social
43:40
workers out there who place children I've never
43:44
had a placement or heard of anyone who have a
43:47
placement or a young person come to their family
43:49
that they haven't exhausted every avenue of kinship.
43:53
Always for years. I'm not sure why this is, why
43:57
is this only new? They say they're going to support
43:59
them better. But the weird thing is with that,
44:02
most local authorities pay a kinship allowance
44:05
and yet. Josh McAllister seems to think they
44:08
get nothing. And he set up this new thing over
44:11
three years, over a couple of local authorities
44:13
where they're going to experiment with paying
44:15
them. And I'm like, well. i know in hampshire
44:20
they got fostering fees they probably allowances
44:24
and things they probably should have more but
44:27
i just don't know where they get their information
44:29
from and i know definitely that those hard -working
44:32
social workers out there have made every effort
44:35
we know that when the children's social workers
44:40
say basically they've done uh kinship cert they've
44:43
interviewed they have traveled by air by car
44:47
by boat to talk to members of the family to do
44:50
assessments to see whether they can place them
44:52
with their family i have not known a social not
44:55
do that no me neither i just i'm a bit confused
44:59
it almost seems like in the care review it was
45:02
like a sort of almost like a virtue signaling
45:04
look at us we're going to keep all these children
45:06
at home of course we want to keep more children
45:08
at home that's a that's too long a subject to
45:11
go into the pros and cons of that and and how
45:15
I'm not convinced that those people will be supported
45:18
in the way they need to be. Anyway, shall we
45:20
wrap up now with, I'll just, if you just read,
45:25
you just have a look and think why the system
45:27
is broken and spin versus reality. And I'll look
45:30
at the core fixes. Yeah. Okay. So the system
45:33
is broken. I mean, we've been saying it's not
45:36
just me and you, Sarah, but anyone. connected
45:39
to the police education system the health care
45:42
system that everybody foster carers the children
45:46
themselves have been saying social work is definitely
45:48
saying it's broken till it's become the norm
45:52
um and our expectation is failure we're expecting
45:55
failure and sometimes it feels like uh our failure
46:00
is being managed yeah that's pretty depressing
46:04
um so there's a rise in children's homes now
46:09
i was having a conversation yesterday of a lady
46:11
that lived in the north of england and she said
46:14
she cannot believe the amount of planning permissions
46:16
going in for yeah yeah you build is there something
46:21
going on well that's that's you know in my darker
46:25
you know i am your missus conspiracy theory It
46:30
usually comes true. That's the worrying thing.
46:33
Is it conspiracy thinking or is it the other
46:35
thinking? And I also write, so I'm very good
46:39
at picking thoughts. And one of the things that
46:44
I've noticed is, you know, is it a coincidence?
46:47
I don't know that we reduce levels of foster
46:51
care as an increase. Yeah. and as you know nothing
46:56
going into foster care it's certainly in the
46:59
76 million i can't well it hasn't maybe if you
47:02
take off the bit that's coming say it's 50 million
47:05
we've had nothing for that nothing you can tell
47:09
so how can you how can you look at it other than
47:15
if you wanted more foster carers why aren't you
47:18
investing properly and meaningfully into foster
47:21
care which they're not we can see they're not
47:24
and we see this as an opportunity for a rise
47:27
in property buying and and um you know it's a
47:33
dark it's a whole other podcast and i'd love
47:36
to be in that room with with a couple of academics
47:38
and some property developers and people that
47:40
do it well yeah but it's dark so you know we
47:44
need to we need to i i i couldn't agree with
47:49
you more and if we're sort of going to wrap up
47:51
on that similar kind of note i think we've yes
47:54
the system's broken i mean you've noticed as
47:57
well not once have we said that it's the chip
47:59
We leave because of the children. Nobody leaves
48:04
or doesn't recruit because of the children. It's
48:07
fascinating. Nobody says, oh, I wouldn't look
48:09
after them kids. Nobody. In fact, it's the only
48:14
reason they keep going. But I think, you know,
48:17
we've got early churn, failed recruitment, and
48:20
we've got empty beds, declining numbers, the
48:23
rise in children's home. We've got a little bit
48:27
of spin going on with missing numbers, and I'm
48:32
not sure why. Call fixes. Well, for my bit, I'd
48:37
say listen to the frontline carer -led organisations,
48:42
not just social work -led organisations. Stop
48:45
wasting money on ineffective campaigns that aren't
48:48
written by those who know. simplify and improve
48:52
assessment processes, and we're coming to that
48:54
next week, because they are shocking, shocking.
48:58
And invest in pay, support, recognition, and
49:02
manageable workloads for social workers, as far
49:07
as I'm concerned, and stop dividing and conquering
49:09
us. We need a better relationship with the social
49:12
workers because there are a lot of great relationships
49:15
out there, but at the same time, the system pressure...
49:19
does deteriorate those relationships. So that's
49:22
my ending. You have the last word here. Yes,
49:27
I totally agree. We want to all work together
49:30
to do this. But my request, I guess, is to Josh
49:34
McAllister himself. Now, Sarah, I know that you
49:36
have written him a letter and been fobbed off
49:40
a bit. I think we need to talk to the man himself.
49:45
Let's get around the table. Let's have a chat
49:49
about, a meaningful chat with some actions because
49:53
our reach is huge to foster carers. Yes, it is,
49:57
yeah. If you want to recruit foster carers, come
49:59
to us. Yes, yeah. Come to us. And thank you,
50:03
Sarah. And I need to go and lie down in a dark
50:05
room now because I don't. Yeah, I know, me too.
50:08
I've got a shock emergency podcast. Well, thank
50:11
you for everyone for listening to Foster Care
50:13
Uncovered. We'll be back next week with where
50:16
it all starts, the form F. And I think you're
50:19
going to find that episode fascinating. In the
50:22
future, we've got Dr. Mina Jonkber coming on.
50:25
A lot of you know who she is. And Nana Yabihagan,
50:30
who is really one to follow. Yeah, we've got
50:35
some great guests. So thank you very much for
50:38
listening. Subscribe to the podcast and we look
50:42
forward to speaking to you next week. Bye, everybody.
50:44
Bye bye. Take care.