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Girls, STEM & Neurodiversity: How to Foster Innovation Through Inclusion with Shane Woods, CEO of GirlStart · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hey, y'all.
• 0:01
  Speaker B: Welcome back to another episode of Inchton's podcast. And today I have an incredible woman who I was privileged enough to spend a week long at a conference with this summer. And her name is Shane woods and she is the CEO of a Girl Start and you are based in Austin, Texas. And it is all about empowering young girls through STEM education. Shane, your work fascinates me. How you live life empowers and inspires me as a human, as a woman. And I'm so thankful that you have an older daughter so I can copy just raising a typical child too, because they're really tough. They're really tough. Thank you for being here. GirlStart and the movement of STEM education in young girls overlaps with my own work in neurodiversity advocacy and autism parenting.
• 0:56
  Speaker A: I think that science, technology, engineering and math is an amazing tool to connect both worlds. The neurotypical, if you will, the neurospicy, the neurodivergent, because it's one of those things of those ones and zeros. Don't care who's putting them in. They don't care who's holding that tool to make a difference. Those discoveries don't care how your brain works in order to find them. And so I think that is what Girl Start is really about, is just empowering our next generation to know that they can take on and become that dream job holder, that they can get a chance to make a difference in the world. And that's something that I know girls want to do. They want to change the world, they want to make it better, they want to leave a lasting mark. And they can do that using their minds. You don't even have to talk sometimes. You can be in that lab situation with that headphones on, making a discovery, changing the world, curing cancer, if you will, getting us to Mars. So it's one of those things of we need to make sure that we are creating spaces that are inviting, that allow them to excel and allow them to feel like they belong. And so when it comes to what we get a chance to do at GirlStart is that we start in 4th and 5th grade introducing them to women in STEM careers. And they get to do that for 10 to 12 weeks, depending on the semester. And then we have summer experiences and of course, year round community events that allow girls to be surrounded by their family, we call it K to gray, if you will, that their family can have aha moments and talk about, you know, communication and sound waves and why can I truly hear you if it's just a cup, a string, and another cup, you know, and it's having girls see their parents have those learning moments, that learning never ends. But something that I feel like I needed to bring to Girl Start really comes from a story with Girl Scouts. So for three years, I was the senior director for STEM center of Excellence in Dallas. That really was about awakening girls understanding of what STEM can be from kindergarten all the way through 12th grade as girl Scouts. And so it was, I think, like my first summer. And it was in the midst of July, hot as heck in Texas. And luckily, one of my camp counselors happened to also be a special ed teacher who was needing some extra money to start sending her girls off to college. And so it's Monday, and she comes in, and she was like, I think we have a special case. And I was like, okay, what does this mean? And she was like, we have a runner. Not really making a lot of eye contact. She has not said her name out loud. She's not really doing all the things that I think other kids probably at that age should be doing according to milestones. She was like, so I don't wanna diagnose. She's like, I think we got a special case. I said, she gave me her plan. We're gonna keep her in the room. We're going to engage her with different modalities, but she's going to stay with that. We're gonna see if she's comfortable with water. When we go to the pool, we're gonna do all these things. She's like, I have another person with me so we can navigate that crowd. Mm. I said, okay, we can do this. So at the end of the day, we meet the parents at the car, and the parents kind of had that look like, not just a camp counselor. It looks like the head of the camp. So that's me walking over there saying, you know, we're noticing that your camper experiences the world differently than everyone else. And their face was like. Like, I see that they're trying to brace themselves. And we're like, so we just kind of want to know, how do we make sure everything's good for the rest of the week? Because we still have four more days. And you saw their shoulders drop, and you saw them just kind of, like, exhale. And they said, you are the first camp to have kept our daughter. And, like, doesn't that hit you? Like, what do you mean we're the first camp? And I was like, excuse me. Like, everyone else usually calls us midday. You didn't call. So we were kind of concerned. But when we saw you walking up, we just knew this was going to be her last day. I said, no, this is not the experience of. We just. We give you your child back and your money back. You pay for an experience for her. And I want to make sure we give that experience to her. And so for the next 45 minutes, we stood out in the July sun to navigate the fastest IEP in the world of what does it look like? Because out of school time, people do not have the same access to a school record. We do not know any diagnosis if you do not disclose it, like, yes, we ask about allergies. We. We asked about all of these things, but at that time we didn't really ask about what is. Is there any. Are there any other diagnosis we should be aware of with the understanding that we also have youth typically at camps that do not. They may be siblings, but that doesn't mean that they know what to do. Of course, in an overall, you know, kind of atmosphere. And so from that experience at Girl Scouts, I really want to make sure that Girl Start removes those barriers and that we're very aware of any barriers that we are putting up. But also having that conversation, that very frank conversation and honest conversation that's rooted in care of how do we make sure that the environment we're providing to your child allows them to have a sense of belonging, a sense of curiosity and a sense of I can do this, you know. And that's what is about making sure curious and asking questions in whatever form or fashion.
• 6:37
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 6:37
  Speaker A: And it may not be verbal, but.
• 6:39
  Speaker B: Well, that that word, I mean, curiosity is like the word of the month for me. I mean, I hope. I think it's actually the word of my year is like staying curious. It has less to do about the way a child's brain is. The circuitry is. It has less to do about a boy and girl. It has less to do about the family of origin. It's about staying curious to who that child is, full stop. You're allowing camp to stay curious to all the children that get to participate. And I think it's just a beautiful way of directing in any capacity.
• 7:13
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 7:13
  Speaker B: It is. It really is. Tell me more about how you've seen girls start empower from maybe an example that you use like a child who is on the periphery and potentially has a neurodivergency diagnoses. And again, you're not there to. You're not in a situation where you're handed an I.E.P. what do you feel like you. You did see in a. In a. In a child like that?
• 7:42
  Speaker A: It's something that is exciting every time I notice a child who has a unique wiring. If you. Yes. And it's that they typically take on. The girls we have seen have typically taken on an intense focus in completing a task. And they do it either extremely well and fast, or they do it extremely well and it takes a while. And that is all they're going to work on. And so it's kind of those two things of like, if they did it super fast and they're ready and they want to show you and they want you and they're ready for the next one. Or it's that girl who's like, okay, you want me to build this Lego thing that goes to Mars? Got it. And they are ready now. They don't want to be away from the girls, but they'll usually say, I need more time. Or they're just kind of like, I'm not. They're not going to move from that task. They produce such high quality products, you know, in terms of. We always have an investigation, we always have some kind of mockup or model that they're going to do. Then they get to test it out. They get to see if they could improve. And I will also see them go improve other people's models. Now, of course, it's based upon their model.
• 8:57
  Speaker B: Of course it is.
• 8:58
  Speaker A: Of course it is.
• 8:58
  Speaker B: We're all the star of our own Broadway show. I don't care if you're typical or virgin.
• 9:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, I got it right the first time. I don't know what's wrong with y'all, but they. They go and help without being kind of nudged, if you will. You know, I have to ask my child, who is a single child, you know, an only child, to go help somebody open a door. But they will just go help. They're like, well, I out. Why can't you figure it out? I'm just gonna figure it out for you. And I love that because that's something that yet again, as women, how many of us have been in, like, your skirt's kind of tucked into your, you know, let me get that out of your. You know. And it's still in there.
• 9:33
  Speaker B: All of it is still in there.
• 9:35
  Speaker A: My sister immediately is in there.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 9:38
  Speaker A: And so it's also what we want to make sure at Girls Star is that we are reminding the girls to include everyone to ask, do you want to sit with us? And if they don't, it's Fine, but y'all close enough that she's not so far away.
• 9:53
  Speaker B: It's the 10. It's the primal nature of tend and befriend of women. The primal nature is this desire to help. And I think you're speaking exactly to that.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: And it is, it's really helping them be just amazing humans. And something that girl START has also embarked on with the help of. I'm going to get this right. The Smithsonian Science Education center is a zero barrier effort and it's about truly removing the barriers from not only our facility, but also from curriculum. And then hopefully it'll eventually get to the training. And so if I could have my million dollar dream, it would be to truly prepare out of school time people to be able to have some kind of professional learning on what does it look like to all children to remove those zero barriers, to be able to handle that in a way that's quick because we only have em for so many times. Just like summer camp, like how do.
• 10:52
  Speaker B: I do that in a week?
• 10:54
  Speaker A: Of course, led by parents and those who are living in that enjoying world with that wonderful brain wiring that they have. But we also have had a couple of female engineers reach out and say I'm autistic, I have adhd, I have this diagnosis, whatever they are, and they're becoming our speakers for our girls. Because I think that is important for those girls who do live with a certain diagnosis to know that you can be an adult and you can be a complete adult.
• 11:27
  Speaker B: I also think like mentorship, but also basic core level of modeling. You know, I think as, as mothers working with such a wide population of young girls, simply modeling the behavior, you know, to a child who doesn't fit the mold of the typical group. When you model the behavior to others, that is that in and of itself is so powerful to the, the atypical child. Right. Like I think about that all the time as like I can say something to any child, but it's really how I live and model that will stick with the child more. I do believe all behavior is communication and I think about that a lot about, you know, whether my children can speak back to me or not from their voice box. They are always communicating with me. Even in your suggesting of women engineers reaching out to you, they get to model that beyond just speaking to the crowd. They get to model what that looks like to be a successful woman is beyond just the words.
• 12:26
  Speaker A: And it's, it's important. It's, it's that, you know, famous saying of if they see it, they can be it, you know, And I think that's what, what they need. They need to know that they can become an adult. They can become, you know, an adult that does some amazing, brilliant things. And it really. And it allows that woman to feel like she can then, to your point, model and be like, if I had had this, I might have done this faster. And so I think that's what I get to hear a lot when it comes to people who find out about girlstart. They're like, if I had had this when I was a girl, just imagine.
• 13:03
  Speaker B: What I would be when I think about that for Millie, I can see her want to do this over and over and over again because I feel really, really good doing that. And I think that, that, that the spaces that you're providing allow for that to be celebrated too, which is something really big for, I think the autism community. This repetition based desire of our kids needs to be seen as, as an ability. It's actually, it's actually a wonderful superpower. I applaud your observation of that because that is a power of theirs.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, things that, when you think about the amount of repetition needed in science discovery, like, it's, you know, I always think of the wonderful. What is it? WD40 is. That's the only concoction that they made that got them there.
• 13:50
  Speaker B: Right.
• 13:50
  Speaker A: You know, or that is it, Isn't it Jack Black's mom who created Whiteout? You know, it's these things of like, and it was an accident, but she was trying to do something else. So in my mind, that attention to detail, but also just trying something new or being able to look at it in a different way. Whatever was created actually is probably better used this way. And that's why we need their minds. Because I think the neurotypical are thinking, this is the only way that this is gonna work. This is the only way it's supposed to work. These are all failures. Whereas they would come in and be like, but it seems like it's a good lubricant that doesn't, you know, I think it could go this way.
• 14:27
  Speaker B: Right. It's, it's accepting, it's. It's allowing for this space. I think you and I come from a generation where when it comes to the brain was always like, left brain, right brain, right. I feel like I grew up in the 90s where it was like, oh, they're so left brained, so left brain, so right brain. It is so much more complex than that. It's actually their ability to keep trying and wanting to be repetitions over and over again. That feels satisfying to them to then slowly see what is possible. Yeah. You know, I. I find there, I just find the whole idea of the repetition versus the plasticity of challenging and changing and seeing it differently is because of my. Millie's desire to try things over and over and over again.
• 15:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I would love for her to, you know, be able to find that joy and it be something that's. That's career leading, you know. Totally, totally allows her to be independent, you know, in her own way, even if she is dependent on her ways, you know.
• 15:27
  Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
• 15:29
  Speaker A: Like you still see joy.
• 15:31
  Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. I used this term a couple conversations ago. I said, you know, it's a, it's a luxury you can't purchase, cannot purchase joy. You cannot purchase satisfaction. You have to feel it and you have to create the environment with which your children will feel it. And so I think to myself, like I one thing that Millie likes to do over and over again, and it's not in the stem world per se, but she will watch the same college football game over and over again, like the same exact game. And I think to myself, okay, this is, this is satisfying to her. This brings her deep joy. This brings her some sort of pleasure. Like what does that look like if we. I keep exposing and letting her stay exposed to this game or this certain exact championship game. And I wonder to myself, okay, what is she seeing differently? Maybe this is where she becomes. She's recognizing patterns in Alabama's football team and she becomes this back office chick who no one knows her name. Right. And she doesn't want anyone knowing her name because she doesn't want to interact with you anyways. She is done with you before she even met you. And she gets to be the pattern seeker of why and how to make Alabama succeed in playing Clemson.
• 16:43
  Speaker A: I mean, I feel like her job is now going to be defensive coordinator.
• 16:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. That's what I think. I mean, she will not give a flying F who you are, what your title is. She's going to be like, that guy did this 30,000 times this season. He's going to do it again. When they call that play. And I think about that, I think it's so cool. But it was staying curious to that because I know specifically when within the autism parenting community there's a lot of, there's a lot of shame around the repetitive behavior. Millie watching the same thing over and over again to a, to a typical family might seem silly, it might seem dumb. It Might seem like very, very unintelligent. And I think changing the narrative of that comes from staying curious. Your example of having children like, and girls come to you like that is because of staying curious to what they can do and how they can do it. And it's not going to look like your typical other campers.
• 17:43
  Speaker A: And I always, you know, it's one of those things that I sometimes hate the rest of the world for those kind of things. Because in my mind I'm one of those people. I guess I've been on Earth for 48 whole years. I can think of things that probably look ridiculous to them. That we do.
• 18:02
  Speaker B: Gosh, yes.
• 18:03
  Speaker A: And so it's that kind of perspective that I feel like people need to take on. But also, you know, it's free to mind your own business. And I, I wish more people did that.
• 18:13
  Speaker B: I know.
• 18:13
  Speaker A: Because I feel like that is what that community is teaching us, Millie, is just mind our own business.
• 18:19
  Speaker B: You do you. I mean, it's the best. Like I, I always say the lack of social conditioning that my younger two beautifully have, like the lack of it is one of the greatest gifts to not only witness but for them to have to, to them to like actually live. They literally do not care. They're like cool. That works for you, doesn't work for me. I'm so thankful for the work that you do because I think that you're exposing both types of young girls. Whether they come to you with a diagnoses or their parents share or they just come to one a one off event. And you have these volunteers who I also believe too no one's volunteering for this thing without being a curious individual. Right. Like staying curious in this kind of space I think draws in the right people.
• 19:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker B: And I can only imagine the satisfaction that those volunteers are also getting from being able to experience all the different types of girls that come to you guys.
• 19:13
  Speaker A: They love it and they, they love that we're inclusive. They love that we are aware that we need to be inclusive to how humans show up. No one is showing up the same anymore. And I'm glad about that.
• 19:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Speaker A: And I think if I can leave a legacy of having made the world better and it's through empowering women and making sure that women find their kitchen table, if you will, then I know that I have done my job well. And I think that's what's important is that people need to know that it takes all of us, all ages, all, all backgrounds to come together and make a difference. Cause it's One of those things of it's easy to start labeling and compartmentalizing and doing, but that also took work. Why didn't you just. Why don't you just come together, make a plan, do it all? Versus is this person this kind of thing, we adult it and get in the way of what could be true imagination and engineering and ideation. And so I think it's just helping people break down those unnecessary silos and be welcoming for all those perspectives.
• 20:19
  Speaker B: You know, one of the things that's been really cool about speaking and about neurodiversity in the workplace, the younger generations have an emotional capacity and emotional intelligence for this even. I mean, I think that you and I do a good job, but I think the younger generations are light years ahead from a younger age of their introspection and their emotional intelligence to others and their differences. And I guess more from like a circuitry thing and that we all think. That we truly just all think and process things differently.
• 20:51
  Speaker A: You know, I think they see people in a good way as just individuals and they encounter them as such.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 20:58
  Speaker A: Like, okay, this is. This is who you are. Okay. Either we get along. Don't. But. And it's kind of. It like, it's not a. I don't like her because her shirt is blue. Not just as colonel. It's like, no, she says, not my person. Keep it moving. Whereas we want to ruminate. Why don't I like that person? Or we want to recruit people. Do you not like her as well? I don't see that amongst the youth that we have and that we serve at Girl Star. It's more like, oh, my gosh, you like anime, too? She likes. God, yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker B: They like anime. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so. So basically what you're saying is you have a little girl that comes in who loves watching football in the south, and you don't let me know because I'll send Millie down to be your friend. I know you love yourself. SEC Football. Shane.
• 21:41
  Speaker A: First of all, she has my heart in football, so I'm everywhere.
• 21:44
  Speaker B: Okay, sounds good.
• 21:45
  Speaker A: And now that I know that she sees patterns. Oh, I can't wait. I want to see if she's able to. If she starts liking a certain NFL team based off of that kind of what she sees from Alabama. So it'll be.
• 21:59
  Speaker B: Gosh, it's really strange because there's no Alabama influences in my family, especially up here in the Northeast. So I don't know. Again, that's where she's like, I really don't care. I just was wondering do you see that being talked about specifically in STEM education? Or is there just. Or do you find that it. It become comes from discussions like this that we just remind people that girls are being diagnosed too. And it's not that there is. There's more prevalency to girls having autism. It's just that we're finally paying attention to autism, being looking different and exhibiting behaviors that are different than boys at a young age. I'd love to hear, like, your thoughts on that.
• 22:33
  Speaker A: I think what is allowing girls start seeing more girls come in and parents openly share. If there's a diagnosis, it's that parents are taking kids to get a diagnosis. I know that sounds very simple, but I think. I think that's what it is. I think the stigma of kids can't get diagnosed with mental differences early is finally kind of going away. I think parents and school diagnosticians, all who are helping to work to find the best way for this child to be successful. It's no longer taboo to take your child to have an evaluation, which I think allows more girls to now be studied, if you will. Like more information is gathered. This is how that young lady presented. This is also how I saw others present. I think pediatricians are more aware. You know, child psychologists and therapists are more aware. Educational diagnosticians are more aware. So I think it's truly a raised awareness, because in my mind, we all probably could have said, you knew a Millie in elementary school.
• 23:42
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 23:43
  Speaker A: No, that's what it was. Right. We also knew that there was, you know, a different language wrapping around humans that were different than us, showed up differently or thought differently. And so once they removed some of that harsh language and now started re. You know, reintroducing correct language and also realizing that everything that was studied based on a white male presenting did not go over to a white female, let alone all the different races and creeds and colors and all of that. And so I think it's truly a raised awareness and that people are also very receptive. People like me and girls are receptive to hearing that, to understanding, okay, this is how your child's going to show up. Then we have that conversation. How do we make sure a successful environment. And also the honest truth of me saying, I don't think my STEM crew is prepared for this level of support, but please come on the community day when you're with your child.
• 24:44
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 24:45
  Speaker A: It's that level of trust and communication that's necessary that came about of awareness and people understanding. It's not only for this segment of the population.
• 24:55
  Speaker B: That's right. That's right. And the more that we can just own that, the better this is all gonna go for society, for science, for research, for development. I am so thankful that you exist, Shane. I'm so, so thankful that you exist. I am so proud to know you. I'm so proud of the work you do because, I mean, you don't have a child with special needs. And to know that you have the capacity to be the leader of a team and to guide in a way that just honestly, going back to it, that you've stayed curious to young girls like my Millie. I won't ever send you Mac. Mac is a feral disaster of a boy. Boys are a whole different ball game, I always say. I love him so much. I would leave everyone for him, but he's. He's feral. We're holding space for this new wave of girls and you're creating a generation within your community that is. It's going to have fractal success as for them as humans. And I'm so thankful for you. I'm so thankful for the work. I'm gonna send Millie down this summer. Give me the. Give me the registration form. Anyways, thank you so much, Shane, for your time. Thank you for all that you do. And I wish you just the most amazing success in all of this because you are creating a next wave of science engineers, mathematicians, women that are going to change the world. They are. And you're starting with that. All right, until next time on Inch Stones. There's always power in ridding yourself of all the shame in the world, leading in with vulnerability and having conversations like this.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you.