Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #192: The National Monuments Controversy from a Sportsmen’s Perspective with Land Tawney

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #192: The National Monuments Controversy from a Sportsmen’s Perspective with Land Tawney · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
0:06
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
0:11
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
0:16
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one, and today
0:20
Speaker 1: in the show, we are joined by the CEO of
0:22
Speaker 1: back Country Hunters and Anglers, Land Tawny, and we're discussing
0:26
Speaker 1: the recent controversy around national monuments from a hunter angler
0:29
Speaker 1: perspective and other public land issues and news. All right, folks,
0:45
Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you
0:48
Speaker 1: by Sitkat Gear. And today we're going to be joined
0:51
Speaker 1: by Land Tawny. And Land is the CEO of back
0:55
Speaker 1: Country Hunters and Anglers, the leading conservation organization fighting on
1:01
Speaker 1: behalf of sportsmen, women for our public lands, wildlife and waters.
1:06
Speaker 1: And we had Land on the show might have been
1:10
Speaker 1: like two years ago now, but I wanted to have
1:11
Speaker 1: him on again to discuss a topic that has been
1:14
Speaker 1: all over the news over the past week or so,
1:16
Speaker 1: and that is this national monument controversy. As you might
1:21
Speaker 1: have heard or seen last week, President Trump announced that
1:24
Speaker 1: his I cannot talk. His administration will be making drastic
1:30
Speaker 1: cuts to protections on a couple of different pieces of
1:34
Speaker 1: our public lands. Notably, he proposed a reduction in size
1:38
Speaker 1: of Bearsier's National Monument by and cutting Grand Staircase Escalante
1:44
Speaker 1: National Monument in half. So there's been a lot of
1:48
Speaker 1: talk about what this means, what kind of precedent this sets,
1:52
Speaker 1: and concerns um for you know, all sorts of different
1:55
Speaker 1: concerns for those of us who value public lands and
1:58
Speaker 1: wild places. So you might have seen something related to
2:01
Speaker 1: this on your Facebook feed or on the nightly news.
2:03
Speaker 1: But you know, there's also a decent bit of confusion
2:05
Speaker 1: and maybe even some misinformation coming from both sides of
2:09
Speaker 1: the issue too. So with all that hub ab out there,
2:12
Speaker 1: I think it's probably pretty easy for a hunter or
2:15
Speaker 1: angler to be a little confused about what all this means,
2:19
Speaker 1: what we should be thinking and doing about all this.
2:21
Speaker 1: So well that all be in the case. Land is
2:24
Speaker 1: going to hop on here soon with us to help
2:25
Speaker 1: us understand, you know, what national monuments are, what this
2:29
Speaker 1: recent announcement means for the future of public lands, how
2:33
Speaker 1: this is going to impact hunters and anglers, sportsmen and women.
2:36
Speaker 1: And then finally, you know, we're also talking a little
2:39
Speaker 1: bit more about other public land changes and challenges and
2:42
Speaker 1: issues that have been kind of rolling out over recent months,
2:46
Speaker 1: and you know what we need to know as hunters
2:48
Speaker 1: and anglers about all that. So so please please please
2:51
Speaker 1: stick around for this one, because honestly, I really do
2:55
Speaker 1: believe that the future of our ability to hunt and
2:58
Speaker 1: fish and hike and camp and kayak and raft and
3:02
Speaker 1: whatever explore these wild public places, that future is dependent
3:06
Speaker 1: on us sportsmen and women understanding these issues and standing
3:10
Speaker 1: up for these places. Because as Theodore Roosevelt once said, uh,
3:15
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna paraphrase here, but he said, the wild
3:18
Speaker 1: creatures cannot speak for themselves, so we must and we will,
3:23
Speaker 1: and I think that is very much still true today.
3:25
Speaker 1: So so that's the main event for the episode here.
3:28
Speaker 1: But before we get to that, as we do every week,
3:31
Speaker 1: we're gonna take maybe ten minutes, fifteen minutes. We'll see
3:34
Speaker 1: how it goes for our weekly pregame show, catching up
3:38
Speaker 1: on the latest and the hunting adventures of myself and
3:41
Speaker 1: the one and only Extraordinary. I don't have a really
3:46
Speaker 1: great intro for you to, Dan, but your story now,
3:48
Speaker 1: I'll give you that, one of a kind. So am
3:53
Speaker 1: I right on all that, Dan, This is important stuff
3:55
Speaker 1: to talk about, but we first need to give our
3:57
Speaker 1: our updates. Yeah, yeah, dude, I tell you what, i
4:01
Speaker 1: I'm I am so consumed at the same time confused
4:07
Speaker 1: on what the actual truth is about a lot of
4:11
Speaker 1: these public land scenarios. You know, it's like you have
4:14
Speaker 1: one side of the one side saying this is, this
4:17
Speaker 1: is horrible for sportsmen. They're taking away all of our
4:20
Speaker 1: public land. They're gonna sell it to the oil you know,
4:23
Speaker 1: the oil gods or whatever. And then you got the
4:25
Speaker 1: other who say, yeah, you know, give it away. We
4:29
Speaker 1: don't want the we don't want it to be run
4:31
Speaker 1: by the Fed anymore, and all this stuff, And like
4:34
Speaker 1: you said, it's just it's it's difficult, especially in today
4:38
Speaker 1: and where people decide to get their news, what the
4:41
Speaker 1: actual truth is in the details about where this information
4:46
Speaker 1: is coming from. So very very true. Um, And I
4:50
Speaker 1: think you know that if you're coming into this, if
4:51
Speaker 1: someone listening to this hasn't heard some of our past
4:54
Speaker 1: episodes related to some of these public land issues, like
4:57
Speaker 1: the public land transfer, which is which is uh kind
5:00
Speaker 1: of a movement that has been going on for a
5:02
Speaker 1: handful of years now. There's a couple episodes that I'll
5:05
Speaker 1: definitely recommend you go back and listen to, like one
5:07
Speaker 1: we had with Randy Newburg Um a couple of septembers ago.
5:12
Speaker 1: There's one we had with Witt Fostburg which would be
5:15
Speaker 1: a good one to listen to. UM. So there's some
5:18
Speaker 1: kind of foundation setting we do, and those where we
5:21
Speaker 1: talk about some of these high level issues related to
5:24
Speaker 1: the future of public lands, why some people want to
5:26
Speaker 1: open them up to development, or give them away to states,
5:29
Speaker 1: or sell them off, etcetera, etcetera. UM, right from the
5:32
Speaker 1: get go, I'll tell you and Dan you obviously know that,
5:34
Speaker 1: and anyone who's been listening knows that I am a
5:37
Speaker 1: strong opponent of those types of ideas. I and both
5:42
Speaker 1: you and idea, and we value our public landscapes so much. UM.
5:47
Speaker 1: So I think this this issue is is near and
5:49
Speaker 1: dear to my heart and to your to your question,
5:52
Speaker 1: your point. Um here in a few minutes when Landing
5:55
Speaker 1: gets on with us, and this this interview I already recorded,
5:58
Speaker 1: so I know what he says, I know what we've
6:00
Speaker 1: talk about, and m he does a great job of
6:02
Speaker 1: helping us understand exactly what's happening, what is rio, what
6:07
Speaker 1: is noise. What really matters, UM. Why these things are
6:11
Speaker 1: are things that we as hunters and english should be
6:13
Speaker 1: paying attention to. Um. Whether you live on the East Coast,
6:16
Speaker 1: the West Coast, the Midwest, the Rocky Mountains, uh, Florida, wherever,
6:21
Speaker 1: you know, these places matter. UM. They're available to each
6:24
Speaker 1: and every one of us, whether we're gonna use them
6:26
Speaker 1: this year or twenty years from now. UM. You know,
6:29
Speaker 1: I think it's important that we stand up because for
6:32
Speaker 1: essentially the the entire history of America's public lands, it
6:37
Speaker 1: has been hunters and anglers that have been the main
6:40
Speaker 1: people standing up fighting for this place. Is helping getting
6:43
Speaker 1: these places created, funded, taken care of them. It's it's
6:46
Speaker 1: been on us since the beginning and it still is
6:49
Speaker 1: on us here today. UM. And you know, I think
6:54
Speaker 1: you and I can both point to some very special
6:56
Speaker 1: moments in our own lives that took place on these
6:58
Speaker 1: types of landscape some locations. And uh, with you having
7:02
Speaker 1: kids and and me having my first on the way,
7:05
Speaker 1: it just becomes even more important and even more just
7:08
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just want to make sure that
7:11
Speaker 1: these opportunities are available for for my little guy. And yeah,
7:16
Speaker 1: it's crazy this is what the way I look at
7:18
Speaker 1: a situation like this is just maybe I don't get
7:23
Speaker 1: to go out and experience these places because Iowa is
7:28
Speaker 1: nine point something percent. It's like less than two uh
7:34
Speaker 1: state slash public ground right or likes a state or
7:37
Speaker 1: federal ground quote unquote public right. You go out west,
7:41
Speaker 1: there's a lot more opportunity for that. But what I
7:45
Speaker 1: what concerns me is like I have hope that I
7:50
Speaker 1: can go out and do that, you know, someday do that,
7:53
Speaker 1: And I want my kids to be able to have
7:55
Speaker 1: the hope to say, you know, if I wanted to,
7:58
Speaker 1: I could go I could go out there and climb
8:00
Speaker 1: this mountain. And without that, it just seems like a
8:05
Speaker 1: sad like a world that is just all you know.
8:08
Speaker 1: And I know, I know what I'm saying is the
8:11
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. Like you go and you drive out
8:14
Speaker 1: into the mountains and you're standing on these roads and
8:16
Speaker 1: you imagine these you know, these picturesque vistas, and then
8:20
Speaker 1: all you see is like oil wells and minds, and
8:25
Speaker 1: you know, the mountains are still there, but they're covered up.
8:28
Speaker 1: The animals aren't there anymore because they've been driven out,
8:32
Speaker 1: and it just it just seems like a sad world.
8:36
Speaker 1: From that point on, I agree with you. And it's
8:40
Speaker 1: just every year these places are getting chipped away at,
8:43
Speaker 1: chipped away at, chipped away at and of course, you know,
8:47
Speaker 1: progress as progress, development and and and businesses and all
8:53
Speaker 1: these things. They've got to happen, right that. That's obviously
8:56
Speaker 1: part of our own existences is having these things. But
8:59
Speaker 1: there's gotta be a responsible way to do these things.
9:01
Speaker 1: There's gotta be a way to still respect and take
9:04
Speaker 1: care of the handful of places that we have left
9:07
Speaker 1: that are still somewhat pristine and wild and public. I mean,
9:10
Speaker 1: it's such a small proportion of what's going on. Why
9:13
Speaker 1: can't we just hold onto these last few places? Because
9:16
Speaker 1: you're right, they do offer that opportunity, that dream, that
9:19
Speaker 1: hope for anyone that there's still somewhere you can get
9:22
Speaker 1: away to. Um and man, you spend a day or
9:25
Speaker 1: two out in some of these wild places, and it
9:28
Speaker 1: is it is medicine for the soul. I think um
9:33
Speaker 1: and a writer Wallace Stegner once talked of these public lands,
9:37
Speaker 1: these places out you know here specifically talking about some
9:40
Speaker 1: of these places, Um, that our wilderness areas being the
9:43
Speaker 1: geography of hope. Um, And I think that's a pretty
9:46
Speaker 1: powerful way to describe these places. So I don't know, man,
9:51
Speaker 1: I I had a very fortunate year to be able
9:54
Speaker 1: to explore that a lot of these places myself over
9:57
Speaker 1: you know, the spring and summer and fall, and it
9:59
Speaker 1: just can teams to drive home all these things. We
10:01
Speaker 1: gotta stand up for him. So so I know you're
10:04
Speaker 1: I know you're working on a quote unquote public land project. Yeah,
10:09
Speaker 1: can you give us any insight on what that's gonna be?
10:12
Speaker 1: What do you I mean? Can you can you give
10:14
Speaker 1: us a sneak peek or am I am I blowing
10:16
Speaker 1: the cover for you? I can't give you too much
10:19
Speaker 1: more information, but I can say that the project will
10:24
Speaker 1: be announced in the relatively near term future. So finally,
10:30
Speaker 1: this thing that I've been kind of referring to loosely
10:33
Speaker 1: and every once in a while over the last year
10:35
Speaker 1: or so, Um, it's it's happening. It's very exciting. Um,
10:40
Speaker 1: I'm pumped about it. Have spent a lot of time
10:42
Speaker 1: on it over the last year, Gonna be spending a
10:44
Speaker 1: whole lot more time on it this coming year. Um.
10:47
Speaker 1: But it's kind of um. Knock on wood It's gonna
10:50
Speaker 1: be the realization of of of a dream I've had
10:52
Speaker 1: for a long time. So excited about that. It is
10:54
Speaker 1: related to public lands, it's related a lot of things
10:57
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, um and I people are gonna
11:00
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Yeah, So that's that's all I can share
11:03
Speaker 1: right now. I'll tell you what this is. What I'm
11:08
Speaker 1: what I'm about to tell you is real. And I
11:10
Speaker 1: really do do this. I sit in my cubicle and
11:14
Speaker 1: I daydream while I'm doing my work about getting out
11:18
Speaker 1: and heading west and and I you know, at night,
11:23
Speaker 1: after the kids go to bed, I'll sit with an
11:25
Speaker 1: iPad on my lap and I'll just look at Google Maps,
11:29
Speaker 1: and as pictures pop up, I'll click on the pictures
11:31
Speaker 1: and I'll go And I'll even have a document somewhere.
11:34
Speaker 1: It's in my messy desks somewhere, but anyway, it's just like, Okay,
11:37
Speaker 1: well that looks cool. I want to go visit that.
11:39
Speaker 1: And it's just a list and you know, maybe someday
11:41
Speaker 1: I'll get to do that, maybe I won't, but it's
11:43
Speaker 1: a dream and it's just something that has been in
11:48
Speaker 1: my blood since my dad took me on an Amtrak
11:51
Speaker 1: train from Iowa to Denver, Colorado, and then we rented
11:56
Speaker 1: a car and we went up into Rocky Mountain National Park, uh,
12:00
Speaker 1: and then we went some other places around the area,
12:03
Speaker 1: and and then I went back to Colorado maybe one
12:07
Speaker 1: or two more times between now and then. But every
12:10
Speaker 1: time I go out there, it makes the West to me,
12:15
Speaker 1: makes you feel so small that I don't know, it
12:22
Speaker 1: makes like where I'm at in my job, and I
12:25
Speaker 1: know some of the guys out in the East Coast,
12:27
Speaker 1: and hell, I live in Iowa and that's not even
12:30
Speaker 1: highly populated, but I live in a in a highly dense,
12:33
Speaker 1: you know, a dense area of Iowa. And I think
12:38
Speaker 1: like when you walk out there and you become like
12:42
Speaker 1: just like through osmosis where you become less like you're you,
12:48
Speaker 1: you feel smaller. And I really don't know how to
12:50
Speaker 1: put it into words, but I feel smaller, and I
12:53
Speaker 1: like that feeling. I like that the surroundings. I don't know,
12:57
Speaker 1: it's like my surroundings are bigger, and it just gives
13:02
Speaker 1: me like a cleansing feeling. I don't know what it is.
13:04
Speaker 1: And I know we're getting way off topic here, but
13:07
Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about there, and feel it
13:10
Speaker 1: myself and agree it's it's important, and you know, it's
13:13
Speaker 1: important to point out even though I'm personally a sucker
13:16
Speaker 1: for the West and really really love it, there are big,
13:20
Speaker 1: still pretty wild public places in the East and in
13:24
Speaker 1: the South, and those things are to be celebrated to
13:27
Speaker 1: for sure. So real quick, I don't want to go
13:30
Speaker 1: too long here because I want to make sure that
13:32
Speaker 1: we uh, we don't scare people away before we get
13:35
Speaker 1: land on. But do you have any public land adventures
13:39
Speaker 1: that you're planning for this coming year? Do you have
13:41
Speaker 1: anything on the dream list or man? Definitely, and a
13:45
Speaker 1: lot of it just depends on time and money, you know,
13:49
Speaker 1: just like everything in life. I'm i'm I want to
13:53
Speaker 1: get out to do an elk hunt in Colorado, and
13:57
Speaker 1: then I want to throw in a a secondary hunt
14:03
Speaker 1: out of state, maybe for white tail. Um. I don't
14:06
Speaker 1: know if that would necessarily be a public land hunt
14:09
Speaker 1: or not. I know the elk hunt will be a
14:11
Speaker 1: public land hunt that's gonna take priority, and that might
14:14
Speaker 1: even take priority over white tales in Iowa this year.
14:16
Speaker 1: Like if I have to sacrifice time during the rut
14:19
Speaker 1: for white tails to go elk hunting, I think I'll
14:21
Speaker 1: probably do it this year. Uh, just because past, you know,
14:27
Speaker 1: since we went on that trip like two years, three
14:30
Speaker 1: years ago. Now it's it's I don't I can't explain
14:34
Speaker 1: it again. I just think about it every day and
14:37
Speaker 1: even though it sucked at times it was, it was
14:40
Speaker 1: still better than sitting in a cubicle, you know what
14:43
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, it's just I need more adventure. I
14:49
Speaker 1: had a guy talking to me about this the other day.
14:51
Speaker 1: He's a dad and he's got a he's got a marriage,
14:56
Speaker 1: and there's times when he's he started talking to me,
15:00
Speaker 1: and I don't know anything about women. I'm married and
15:03
Speaker 1: I have a daughter. I don't know anything about him. Uh.
15:06
Speaker 1: But but like for men, and I think it's something
15:10
Speaker 1: in their DNA that they need, that they need to
15:16
Speaker 1: step away from their family for a little bit. It
15:18
Speaker 1: makes them better when they return. They need to be
15:21
Speaker 1: outside in nature and they need to be like they
15:24
Speaker 1: need to rough it. And I think it just gets
15:27
Speaker 1: What that does is it kind of get you back
15:32
Speaker 1: to your core being because in a way, you still
15:34
Speaker 1: are an animal and and it lets you, you know,
15:40
Speaker 1: expose that side of yourself. And then when you come
15:43
Speaker 1: back to your family, you're just a better husband, you're
15:45
Speaker 1: a better father. And uh, I'll tell you what I
15:48
Speaker 1: feel like. I feel that after even going on like
15:50
Speaker 1: a weak rut hunt here in Iowa. Yeah, yeah, you
15:54
Speaker 1: gotta get back to that. I mean, you know, if
15:56
Speaker 1: you look at them, if you look at the story
15:59
Speaker 1: of like the of human of humanity, you know it's
16:03
Speaker 1: been just a very tiny, tiny little bit of time
16:07
Speaker 1: that we've actually not been living out in the wild, hunting, gathering,
16:12
Speaker 1: living off the wild, doing these types of very um
16:15
Speaker 1: difficult physical things just to survive. I mean, if the
16:18
Speaker 1: if the history of Humanity is a book, it's only
16:20
Speaker 1: like the last paragraph of the last page, that is,
16:24
Speaker 1: you know, working in cubicles and sitting in an office
16:27
Speaker 1: or even in a factory or anything like that. Um,
16:29
Speaker 1: so we the human body and psyche has evolved and
16:32
Speaker 1: still to this day has not changed from the body
16:35
Speaker 1: and psyche that was needed to survive on the planes
16:37
Speaker 1: of Africa. So that is what we are meant to do.
16:40
Speaker 1: But instead we're sitting at computers tapping away while like
16:44
Speaker 1: some inner part of us is rotting away. That's exactly
16:49
Speaker 1: how I feel, dude. I feel like there is an
16:51
Speaker 1: incredible hulk inside of me every day. That is just
16:55
Speaker 1: like just waiting to like climb on top of a
16:59
Speaker 1: mount out and just beat my chest and yell, and
17:02
Speaker 1: I can't do that like anyway. Man. I know it's early,
17:09
Speaker 1: but you got any public land adventures, So so yeah,
17:13
Speaker 1: for sure, Um, it's gonna be a little bit more
17:17
Speaker 1: moderate of a schedule than I've had the past few years,
17:19
Speaker 1: just because you know, we got the little one to
17:21
Speaker 1: do in February, and so we're when we're not sure
17:26
Speaker 1: how that's going to impact, you know, what we're able
17:28
Speaker 1: to do. Um, we're still planning on doing a lot
17:30
Speaker 1: of stuff and taking them along with us, but we're
17:32
Speaker 1: kind of going to play it by ear and just
17:35
Speaker 1: kind of see how we're feeling about things. How you know,
17:39
Speaker 1: we can adjust. But but I do know I'm going
17:41
Speaker 1: to be doing a a backpacking trip um at Pictured
17:47
Speaker 1: Rocks National Lakeshore in the up of Michigan. I'm gonna
17:52
Speaker 1: be doing a backpacking and peak bagging trip in Colorado
17:56
Speaker 1: and Nevada sometime in this summer with a buddy. What's
18:01
Speaker 1: what's a peak Yeah, so like peak packing trip. Yeah.
18:05
Speaker 1: So peak bagging is basically just like a term for
18:07
Speaker 1: climbing to the top of a mountain that doesn't require
18:10
Speaker 1: like technical climbing skills and ropes. Are you going to
18:13
Speaker 1: do a fourteen Yeah? Yeah, some that that kind of
18:15
Speaker 1: son of a gun, because that is literally on my
18:18
Speaker 1: bucket list, Like if if I could step away from
18:22
Speaker 1: my job today and even take my family with me
18:25
Speaker 1: or whatever. This you know, this is a pipe dream.
18:27
Speaker 1: My goal in life is to climb every fourteen or
18:31
Speaker 1: in Colorado. That's like forty three of them or something.
18:35
Speaker 1: All right, there you go. I like that, though, Yeah,
18:38
Speaker 1: you gotta get your wife to move to Colorado. Then
18:41
Speaker 1: maybe I know. I got a crazy story we can
18:43
Speaker 1: share another time about my first attempt at a fourteen
18:47
Speaker 1: er got caught in some weather it was nasty. Well,
18:51
Speaker 1: definitely have to cover that one at some point. But
18:53
Speaker 1: but yeah, man, that would be a pretty awesome thing
18:55
Speaker 1: to do. And so I think we're gonna try to
18:57
Speaker 1: tackle a couple of them while we're out there. Um,
18:59
Speaker 1: I'm thinking like three or four days in Colorado and
19:01
Speaker 1: then drive across the Nevada and do a backpacking trip,
19:04
Speaker 1: probably up in the Ruby Mountains, I think, um, and
19:07
Speaker 1: those will be part of this project. That I keep
19:09
Speaker 1: on referring to as well. Um, and then definitely want
19:12
Speaker 1: to try to do some Western hunts. I just don't
19:15
Speaker 1: know exactly how much time. If it will be a
19:17
Speaker 1: week or if I can get away with two weeks,
19:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, and then we're gonna go with
19:22
Speaker 1: my wife and I and and the boy are gonna
19:24
Speaker 1: get out there for at least two two to four
19:27
Speaker 1: weeks maybe during the summer. And uh maybe this year
19:31
Speaker 1: they might not do the camper. Maybe we'll rent a
19:33
Speaker 1: house or something or a little cabin um probably Montana
19:37
Speaker 1: and do some fishing and hiking and stuff, you know,
19:40
Speaker 1: in the national forests and parks and stuff around there.
19:43
Speaker 1: So tentatively something like that, but who knows what it
19:47
Speaker 1: might look like six seven months from now when I've
19:49
Speaker 1: got a five month old kid. But we just bought
19:53
Speaker 1: him a nice little new uh down winter jacket and
19:58
Speaker 1: getting his outerwear all eddie, so he's gonna be. I
20:01
Speaker 1: got our baby shower was just this past weekend, and
20:05
Speaker 1: my sister bought me like a really really nice like
20:08
Speaker 1: Osprey backpack child carrier on those yep, so we can
20:13
Speaker 1: do our our our hiking and backpacking trips. Still but
20:15
Speaker 1: just tote him along in the back. Uh. So I'm
20:18
Speaker 1: just getting really excited about that. I can't wait to
20:19
Speaker 1: share these places and these types of things with with
20:22
Speaker 1: my son here. And uh, just really really excited about that.
20:25
Speaker 1: So and I think that I think that, you know,
20:28
Speaker 1: like like I mentioned at the beginning, just hammers home
20:30
Speaker 1: how importing our topic is again today. Um, it's not
20:33
Speaker 1: just about you and me. It's about our kids, our
20:36
Speaker 1: kids kids, It's about you know, those future generations. So
20:40
Speaker 1: what do you say? We uh wrapped us up and
20:43
Speaker 1: hop over to our interview with Land. Sounds good? All right,
20:47
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break for a word from our
20:49
Speaker 1: partners at Sitka Gear, and then we will talk national
20:53
Speaker 1: monuments and public lands with Land Tawny. For this week's
20:58
Speaker 1: Sitka story, we're joined by Bryce Lambley, a Sitcle White
21:02
Speaker 1: Tail ambassador, who tells us about an improbable hunt with
21:05
Speaker 1: his longbow at ground level in a Nebraska cornfield. Well
21:10
Speaker 1: October have two thousand and seven, in my first year
21:14
Speaker 1: wearing siit Kod gear, and I was having a hard
21:17
Speaker 1: time flind in the deer and the place and I
21:21
Speaker 1: usually go then is into the corn field, and it's
21:23
Speaker 1: an irrigated cornfield, so truly it's a jungle in there,
21:26
Speaker 1: but there's a lane to the center pivot, and I
21:28
Speaker 1: climbed the center pivot and about sunset, really nice buck
21:32
Speaker 1: walked out along the along the pivot lane, and there's
21:35
Speaker 1: some grassy area in there. I figured I didn't have
21:38
Speaker 1: anything to lose, so I went into the corn and
21:43
Speaker 1: tiptoe down the corn rows to the center pivot track
21:45
Speaker 1: that I thought would bring me out within range of
21:48
Speaker 1: the buck. It was pretty crunchy in there, and I've
21:52
Speaker 1: decided that I had nothing to lose. I was positive
21:55
Speaker 1: by now the deer had heard me, and so I
21:58
Speaker 1: began pulling on you years of corn and making noise
22:02
Speaker 1: on purpose, including a little bit of grunting, hoping that
22:05
Speaker 1: the deer would think it was just another deer. As
22:07
Speaker 1: I reached the second pivot track, I began going back
22:11
Speaker 1: toward the lane where I thought the deer might be
22:14
Speaker 1: out in the in the open, And it turned out
22:16
Speaker 1: the deer was right in the pivot track, almost with me,
22:19
Speaker 1: and I got within five yards and all of a
22:21
Speaker 1: sudden he was there, and I realized that that I
22:25
Speaker 1: was not going to probably get a shot. We had
22:27
Speaker 1: kind of a face off, and the buck bounded back
22:31
Speaker 1: out into the into the open, but he wasn't completely spooked,
22:35
Speaker 1: and I was able to tiptoe a few rows closer
22:39
Speaker 1: to the edge, and sure enough he was standing there,
22:42
Speaker 1: and as it turned out, about twelve yards away, and
22:46
Speaker 1: I was able to get an arrow through the between
22:48
Speaker 1: the corn stocks and with my longbow, and I wacked
22:52
Speaker 1: him pretty good, and he ran across the opening into
22:54
Speaker 1: the corner on the other side, where I could visually
22:56
Speaker 1: track his progress until I heard a big thud and
23:00
Speaker 1: have an improbable hunt and one of my most exciting
23:03
Speaker 1: ones certainly wasn't one of my biggest gear, but absolutely
23:06
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting encounters I've had on bruises
23:10
Speaker 1: on which took place in eastern Nebraska. He was wearing
23:13
Speaker 1: Sitka's original mountain pants. Invest If you'd like to create
23:17
Speaker 1: a Sitka story of your own, or to learn more
23:20
Speaker 1: about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit Sitka gear dot com.
23:26
Speaker 1: All right with me now, is land Tawny. Welcome to
23:29
Speaker 1: show land Mark. Thanks for having me back. I appreciate
23:33
Speaker 1: it and UM had a great time chatting with you.
23:35
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a year and a half or so ago
23:37
Speaker 1: on the podcast, and we we took that opportunity to
23:40
Speaker 1: kind of get to know you and backcountry hunters and anglers.
23:44
Speaker 1: And since that foundation was already set on the podcast,
23:47
Speaker 1: I will send people that aren't familiar with you back
23:50
Speaker 1: to listen to that one, um so that we can
23:52
Speaker 1: get right into some kind of current hot topics, uh
23:57
Speaker 1: that are going on right now, and that's related to
24:00
Speaker 1: national monuments. Um So, Landing, I know that you've got
24:03
Speaker 1: a lot of experience and understanding of of what all
24:07
Speaker 1: this means, what's happening today in current events in the news.
24:10
Speaker 1: I think a lot of hunters and anglers over the
24:12
Speaker 1: last week or so have seen talk of national monuments
24:15
Speaker 1: and what's going on over in Utah with Bears, Ears
24:19
Speaker 1: and Grand Staircase escalante. Um. So I was hoping we
24:23
Speaker 1: could talk about that and at a high level, can
24:28
Speaker 1: you maybe kick things off for us by helping us understand,
24:31
Speaker 1: you know, what, what is a national monument and uh,
24:34
Speaker 1: maybe you talk about the history of that too, how
24:36
Speaker 1: they came to be, what you know, what that has
24:38
Speaker 1: meant in the history of public lands for sure. So
24:43
Speaker 1: you know, I think that like you go back to
24:45
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt. And you know, when Roosevelt was in the presidency,
24:49
Speaker 1: it's kind of when our conservation ethic, I really I
24:52
Speaker 1: think became really part of the fabric of America and
24:55
Speaker 1: anyone is that's carried through today what kind of the
24:58
Speaker 1: envy of the world. And one of the tools in
25:01
Speaker 1: the toolbox, you know that that he signed in the
25:03
Speaker 1: law in nineteen o six was the Antiquities Act. Antiquities
25:07
Speaker 1: Act gives the president the ability is set aside lands
25:11
Speaker 1: for cultural reasons, um as well as scientific and so
25:15
Speaker 1: you know he started and I'll still step back, is
25:18
Speaker 1: that you know, prior to him signing that bill into law,
25:22
Speaker 1: the Boot and Crocket Club which came on in eight seven,
25:25
Speaker 1: you know, they were looking and trying to figure out,
25:28
Speaker 1: you know, different tools in the toolbox for the president
25:31
Speaker 1: to help like conserve some of the best of the best.
25:34
Speaker 1: And so you know they helped write the law. President
25:37
Speaker 1: signs it into law in nineteen o six and then um,
25:40
Speaker 1: you know he starts to designate these monuments and really
25:43
Speaker 1: what these monuments. You know, it doesn't really stop a
25:46
Speaker 1: lot of existing uses and so where that's crazy, hunting, fishing,
25:51
Speaker 1: all that stuff is allowed. What it does pretty clear
25:54
Speaker 1: is UH is extractive kind of industry, so oil and gas,
25:58
Speaker 1: um and let's say cold and and so you know
26:02
Speaker 1: this this act has been used by sixteen presidents, that's
26:06
Speaker 1: eight Democrats and eight Republicans. UH stood the test of time,
26:11
Speaker 1: you know, to where you know, these are very special
26:13
Speaker 1: places and it hasn't been used that much, but it's
26:16
Speaker 1: been done to you know, protect places. I think the
26:19
Speaker 1: other thing that this is not just it's not just
26:22
Speaker 1: a it's not a law that really has been you know.
26:26
Speaker 1: It's it's just like the president one day wakes up
26:28
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, I like that area, and I'm
26:29
Speaker 1: gonna go designate this place at the National Monument. And
26:32
Speaker 1: there's a lot of conversations with people on the ground. Um.
26:35
Speaker 1: One of the ones that Roosevelt did was Mount Olympus
26:37
Speaker 1: in Washington, which he did strictly to protect elk um.
26:41
Speaker 1: And you know that those elk ended up being named
26:43
Speaker 1: Roosevelt elk by the guy who was the tax like
26:47
Speaker 1: they did the taxonomy there. But um, that was after
26:49
Speaker 1: talking to a bunch of local people and at that
26:52
Speaker 1: point they were under threat kind of some timber harvest
26:55
Speaker 1: um like un federed like timber harvest, and that's why
26:58
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a monument. So, um, it's something that
27:00
Speaker 1: you know, again, I mean these aren't there's not you know,
27:04
Speaker 1: the review it was undertaken by the President this year
27:07
Speaker 1: UM encompassed eleven million acres, which that was twenty seven monuments, UM.
27:13
Speaker 1: And when you think about eleven million acres in the
27:16
Speaker 1: actual whole of what we have as our public lands,
27:18
Speaker 1: you know, we have six hundred and forty million acres
27:21
Speaker 1: and so that eleven million acres is a real kind
27:24
Speaker 1: of small chunk of that and really the best of
27:27
Speaker 1: the best, you know, I'll I'll take the the Upper
27:30
Speaker 1: Missouri breaks National Monument that's here in Montana. UM. You
27:33
Speaker 1: know it it was designated by President Clinton and it
27:39
Speaker 1: and it wasn't done you know, in total no no controversy.
27:42
Speaker 1: There was definitely controversy there. Um. But now it's like
27:46
Speaker 1: one of the best places to hunt elk, big orange sheep,
27:48
Speaker 1: and mule deer an entire world. And it's a coveted,
27:51
Speaker 1: coveted place to hunt. And so you know, the Antiquities
27:53
Speaker 1: Act is something again that's still the test of time
27:56
Speaker 1: until recently the recent actions it doesn't happened this last year. Yeah,
28:01
Speaker 1: and it's it's interesting when you look back in history
28:03
Speaker 1: to to the actions of of Teddy Roosevelt. You know,
28:07
Speaker 1: even then when he signed this into law soon after
28:10
Speaker 1: began creating national monuments of his own, it was not
28:13
Speaker 1: without controversy either, right, there were people back then who
28:16
Speaker 1: were happy with him doing these things. UM. But for example,
28:19
Speaker 1: like you mentioned on Olympus UM. Now I think that
28:22
Speaker 1: eventually was evolved into Olympic National Park UM or the
28:27
Speaker 1: Grand Canyon at the time was very controversial when he
28:30
Speaker 1: proclaimed that a national monument. Now, of course, I don't
28:32
Speaker 1: think there's anyone in the world who who thinks it's
28:35
Speaker 1: a bad idea that we protected that area. UM. That said,
28:39
Speaker 1: there still were those um with different incentives or different motivations.
28:44
Speaker 1: Excuse me who who didn't want that to happen. Now
28:47
Speaker 1: moving forward looking down the line, now, UM, from a
28:50
Speaker 1: hunter perspective, UM, you know, how have national monuments fit
28:55
Speaker 1: into you know, hunter access um, hunter opportunity Because a
28:59
Speaker 1: lot of people like to say, oh, national monuments that
29:02
Speaker 1: they put all these new restrictions. You can't hunt, you
29:04
Speaker 1: can't gain access, you can't do all these things. I'm
29:06
Speaker 1: hearing this in the news right now from certain certain
29:09
Speaker 1: people and parties. UM. And as I understand, I'm saying,
29:12
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that's largely false. UM. Can you can you
29:15
Speaker 1: clarify that for me? Yeah, you know, the twenty seven
29:18
Speaker 1: national monuments that were under review, like all the ones
29:22
Speaker 1: that you could hunt on prior to designation, you can
29:26
Speaker 1: you could hunt on after designation. So none of that changed. UM.
29:31
Speaker 1: The I think the again, the big thing that changes
29:34
Speaker 1: is that that you cannot do oil and gas extraction,
29:39
Speaker 1: coal uranium like other kind of large kind of restraction
29:44
Speaker 1: extraction kind of activities. And so the hunting, um, the
29:48
Speaker 1: fishing opportunities that were there before you still have them today. UM.
29:52
Speaker 1: And and so that was not changed at all. Now,
29:54
Speaker 1: I will tell you, um that there's a National monument.
29:57
Speaker 1: It's called Castle Mountains and it's uh, it's in California.
30:02
Speaker 1: It was not one of the monuments that was under
30:04
Speaker 1: review because it didn't fit like the size requirement. UM.
30:09
Speaker 1: But that's the case where a new manager came in
30:12
Speaker 1: and the manager was like, I don't think that that
30:15
Speaker 1: hunting is uh, you know, the necessary use here, and
30:20
Speaker 1: and so they stopped hunting on that national monument. Now,
30:24
Speaker 1: is that something that we were disciplined in, absolutely, and
30:26
Speaker 1: that's something that we're working to rectrify, both with Secretary
30:30
Speaker 1: of Interior Zinki and then also a local congressman in California.
30:34
Speaker 1: So that did happen. I think one of the things
30:37
Speaker 1: that you know, we put together a report um that
30:41
Speaker 1: people can go look at online, and it's it's really
30:44
Speaker 1: about kind of like the history of national monuments and
30:46
Speaker 1: then the way that you know that some of the
30:48
Speaker 1: greatest hunting opportunities in this country that are all national monuments,
30:52
Speaker 1: and then how we like to see them going forward.
30:55
Speaker 1: And one of the ways to exclude what just happened
30:59
Speaker 1: or that happened Castle Mountains is to really have hunting
31:03
Speaker 1: part of that proclamation from the beginning, so that no
31:06
Speaker 1: matter what it's it's designated as a use that wants
31:09
Speaker 1: to be carried forward. So I'm not gonna, you know,
31:12
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell you like that every single national
31:14
Speaker 1: monument everywhere in the United States is like the best
31:16
Speaker 1: things and slight spread. But the ones that were under
31:19
Speaker 1: review you could hunt before um this whole review or
31:23
Speaker 1: before that they were designated. And now we'll be quite Frank,
31:26
Speaker 1: you don't think you can hunt afterwards. Nothing is really
31:29
Speaker 1: changed there. What has changed again is kind of this
31:32
Speaker 1: opportunities for extraction. And I'll take staircase that's Coalante in particular.
31:36
Speaker 1: You know, desert bighorn sheep are not doing great. You know,
31:39
Speaker 1: their populations are on the rise in some parts of
31:42
Speaker 1: the country, but others, you know, they're dwindling. And the
31:46
Speaker 1: staircase that's Galante happens to have some of the best
31:49
Speaker 1: habits have for desert bighorn sheep. Well, with that, with
31:53
Speaker 1: this change in management which is happening with the decision
31:57
Speaker 1: that the President made on Monday, because now you know
32:00
Speaker 1: that cold Reserve, which is smacked in the middle of
32:03
Speaker 1: some of the best bighornes or desert big win sheep
32:06
Speaker 1: habits at is now like there's an opportunity to extract that.
32:09
Speaker 1: And you know, those big horn sheep can't speak for themselves,
32:12
Speaker 1: right um, And I guess is they don't want coal
32:15
Speaker 1: in their bedroom. But you know, like that's that's why
32:18
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we're very disappointed with that,
32:20
Speaker 1: with that designation change desgnation, I guess let's let's speak
32:24
Speaker 1: about that a little bit more because because two things,
32:26
Speaker 1: two myths, I want to kind of make sure that
32:29
Speaker 1: we clarify. And these are kind of coming from both
32:31
Speaker 1: sides a little bit. You hear those in favor of
32:34
Speaker 1: either changing the size of the monuments or trying to
32:38
Speaker 1: send them entirely. That kind of camp there likes to
32:41
Speaker 1: say that national monuments are a land grab by the
32:44
Speaker 1: federal government. Now, I think you can correct me if
32:47
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty inaccurate as anything
32:50
Speaker 1: that can become a national monument, any national monument was
32:53
Speaker 1: federal public land already. They're not taking private land, they're
32:57
Speaker 1: not taking state land. They're simply saying, Okay, this is
33:00
Speaker 1: federal public land already, we're gonna proclaim it a national monument,
33:03
Speaker 1: which gives it some additional protections. Now, on the flip side,
33:08
Speaker 1: after what happened here this week, um where the talk
33:12
Speaker 1: of of of downsize and the monuments, there's some who
33:16
Speaker 1: are are upset about that, but they're saying the president
33:19
Speaker 1: stealing your land. Now, as much as I appreciate the
33:23
Speaker 1: sentiment of wanting to keep our public land public, that
33:26
Speaker 1: is kind of that's uh, You're you're playing loose with
33:29
Speaker 1: the facts. A little bit there because even in this case, right,
33:32
Speaker 1: we are not eliminating public land, We're not selling public land.
33:36
Speaker 1: It's just reducing protections on public land. Is that? Am
33:39
Speaker 1: I right? In that assessment, mark your students, and you're
33:43
Speaker 1: getting through kind of a rhetoric on both sides, right.
33:46
Speaker 1: I think that, UM, it wasn't a you know, like
33:49
Speaker 1: you said before, it wasn't a land grab. This was
33:51
Speaker 1: just another level of protection. UM. And again, you know
33:55
Speaker 1: all the places we could hunt and fish before those
33:57
Speaker 1: destinations on the twenty seven, you know, there were review
34:00
Speaker 1: we can we can out and fish after the monuments
34:02
Speaker 1: were designated, and then we're not mesing, not being sold.
34:06
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think that there are
34:09
Speaker 1: some people that want to take advantage of the kind
34:12
Speaker 1: of the growing awareness and kind of the ire you
34:16
Speaker 1: know that happened around you know, let's say Chafe. It's
34:19
Speaker 1: UM back in and back in March when he tried
34:22
Speaker 1: to sell three million acres like that with the the
34:26
Speaker 1: I guess action was swift and it was unapologetic, and
34:29
Speaker 1: I think that we're trying to like cash in on that. UM.
34:32
Speaker 1: In this instance, this is not about selling public lands.
34:35
Speaker 1: It's more about like a sellout to industry, um and
34:38
Speaker 1: reducing those protections and so you know, is that going
34:41
Speaker 1: to happen again? I think something to be careful there too,
34:43
Speaker 1: is you know, is that cold that I talked about
34:46
Speaker 1: um in uh in Escalante, is that gonna be developed small?
34:50
Speaker 1: It's not gonna drow up small, but it's definitely a
34:52
Speaker 1: threat and it's a threat to that habitat. And that's
34:55
Speaker 1: why it was set aside in the first place. When
34:57
Speaker 1: I think about all the oils and gas that's you know,
34:59
Speaker 1: they're yours ears. Um. You know, if oil stays at
35:02
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a barrel, that's not going to be developed.
35:05
Speaker 1: You know, if oil goes back up, there's definitely gonna
35:08
Speaker 1: be a threat there. So um, this is not about
35:10
Speaker 1: a sell off of public lands at all. And I
35:12
Speaker 1: think I think that hurts credibility before you're honest smart yeah, um,
35:16
Speaker 1: because you know that that wolf is that that wolf
35:20
Speaker 1: is crying and or your people are crying wolf. And
35:23
Speaker 1: I just like it doesn't make sense to me. Um
35:25
Speaker 1: besides the point that they're trying to capitalize on some
35:28
Speaker 1: of the anger that people have already expressed. But I
35:30
Speaker 1: think it's disingenuous. Yeah, I felt the same way, And
35:33
Speaker 1: I felt like you're you're losing credibility when you when
35:35
Speaker 1: you start skewing things in that way, Like there's already
35:38
Speaker 1: enough here to um to say, hey, this is an issue,
35:42
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. I think there's already enough factually
35:45
Speaker 1: that you can point to this being something that's concerning.
35:47
Speaker 1: You don't need to exaggerate it even more and then
35:50
Speaker 1: just lose your ability to to be on the right
35:52
Speaker 1: side of the facts. Um. So that was disappointing to see.
35:55
Speaker 1: But but I guess you know, to your earlier point,
35:58
Speaker 1: it is also disappointing that these protections are being taken
36:02
Speaker 1: away and that the opportunity for these places that are
36:05
Speaker 1: very very special places, not just from a hunting and
36:08
Speaker 1: fishing perspective, not just from a recreation, climbing, hiking, backpacking perspective,
36:13
Speaker 1: but also, um, you know, from a cultural perspective to
36:16
Speaker 1: the to the native tribes there. Um. And I know
36:19
Speaker 1: that's a little bit outside of our wheelhouse of what
36:21
Speaker 1: we usually talk about when it comes to the hunting
36:23
Speaker 1: an angland community, but still something pretty important that should
36:26
Speaker 1: certainly should be respected. Um. Can you can you kind
36:30
Speaker 1: of give us a high level overview, though because we
36:32
Speaker 1: kind of jumped right into it, we didn't really talk
36:34
Speaker 1: in detail about what actually happened. What, why was this
36:37
Speaker 1: review started, what were the final decisions, what was announced
36:41
Speaker 1: this week? What does it mean? Right? So you know,
36:46
Speaker 1: the President ask secretary thinking early last year, and let's
36:51
Speaker 1: a review. Um. You know what like the national monuments
36:55
Speaker 1: that have been designated over the last they went back
36:58
Speaker 1: twenty five years um and just to see you know,
37:02
Speaker 1: how they were designated, to see if you know, if
37:04
Speaker 1: they made sense. Um. And so you know, the Secretary
37:10
Speaker 1: I went to this review process and went out and
37:12
Speaker 1: visited I think you know, half a dozen or about
37:15
Speaker 1: a dozen or so monuments um. And and and then
37:20
Speaker 1: you know, gave kind of I guess. At the same time,
37:24
Speaker 1: there was a public comment period, and this public comment
37:26
Speaker 1: period generated over a million comments. Um. Those comments have
37:30
Speaker 1: been analyzed UM. And about nine percent of time, we're
37:35
Speaker 1: keeping you know, these monuments the way they are with
37:38
Speaker 1: that organized effort, absolutely because people saw the threat of
37:41
Speaker 1: those protections being taken away. UM. But it's overwhelmingly when
37:45
Speaker 1: it's too um. And so then there was an a
37:48
Speaker 1: leaked memo. Now they came out this summer. It was
37:52
Speaker 1: from the Secretary up to the President that gave some
37:56
Speaker 1: indication on which ones that they were looking at. UM,
37:59
Speaker 1: Staircase come on to UH and Bearis areas were kind
38:02
Speaker 1: at the top of those lists. And so then you
38:05
Speaker 1: get to you know, there's a bunch of time has
38:08
Speaker 1: passed since then. You didn't really know if it was
38:10
Speaker 1: the actual final report because it was a leak document
38:13
Speaker 1: um and and you know there was some discrepancies in
38:17
Speaker 1: there um that weren't factual. And then you get to
38:20
Speaker 1: what happened this Monday, and that's really the President went
38:23
Speaker 1: down to Utah, and you know, the reductions of and
38:27
Speaker 1: and proposed major I mean these aren't little teeny like
38:29
Speaker 1: you know, like redrawing of kind of lines. These are major,
38:34
Speaker 1: major reductions, um and and so that's where we are now. Now. Um,
38:41
Speaker 1: there's lawsuits that are being filed, and I think we
38:43
Speaker 1: looked into the legal side of this a lot. We're
38:45
Speaker 1: not going to follow the lawsuit ourselves, but you know
38:48
Speaker 1: that I think we think the president's action was illegal. Again,
38:51
Speaker 1: these aren't little boundary restrict boundary kind of adjustments. These
38:57
Speaker 1: are major, major rollbacks. And so we're gonna be caught
39:00
Speaker 1: up in court, which you know is unfortunate, but it
39:02
Speaker 1: also provides a backstop. At the same time. You know,
39:06
Speaker 1: you've got legislation that's proposed by Congressman Bishop out of
39:10
Speaker 1: Utah to totally change the way the Antiquities Act works, um,
39:14
Speaker 1: and only do it for cultural reasons and take the
39:17
Speaker 1: scientific piece out of that. And so when you think
39:19
Speaker 1: about places like the Upper Missouri breaks here in Montana,
39:23
Speaker 1: like it's got some cultural resources, but the majority of
39:25
Speaker 1: that is, you know, because it's just a special place
39:28
Speaker 1: that really doesn't duplicated anywhere else, and so for scientific
39:31
Speaker 1: reasons keeping it that way, and you know, and protecting
39:34
Speaker 1: the wildlife resources that are there. So I think, you know,
39:37
Speaker 1: there's there's there's some unknowns now and what's gonna happen
39:41
Speaker 1: mark Um. You know, I think that it is kind
39:44
Speaker 1: of a sad day. The largest you know, protection rollback
39:46
Speaker 1: that's ever happened in this country where that's monuments or
39:50
Speaker 1: anything else. Um. And so that's just a bad precedence
39:53
Speaker 1: to be setting. I think, you know, the worry that
39:56
Speaker 1: we have is that you know I talked earlier, is
39:58
Speaker 1: that so far this this law and the monument of
40:02
Speaker 1: nations have really stood the test of touch. And now
40:06
Speaker 1: that you know this has happened, you know, they like,
40:10
Speaker 1: what what happens to the rest of the monuments that
40:12
Speaker 1: are out there and and how safe are they? They
40:15
Speaker 1: become a political football. It gets passing forward between administration
40:18
Speaker 1: to administration administration, which causes a lot of um ambiguity
40:23
Speaker 1: and and causes UM, I think a lot of unknowns
40:27
Speaker 1: that you know, is that what's going to happen, and
40:29
Speaker 1: you know that that quite possibly could happen. And that's
40:32
Speaker 1: why I would through this whole thing. You know, we
40:34
Speaker 1: kind of we used the mantra like you know, attack
40:36
Speaker 1: on one is attack on the mall because you're really
40:39
Speaker 1: going to after the sanctity that has been the Antiquities
40:42
Speaker 1: Act till date. So, UM, there's a lot. I mean,
40:46
Speaker 1: it's not my crystal ball. Even it's kind of hard
40:49
Speaker 1: to say what's gonna happen. I mean, I think this
40:51
Speaker 1: is something will go all the way up to the
40:52
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Um, and how long that fakes? Who knows,
40:56
Speaker 1: and then we'll see, you know, what's happening to the
40:58
Speaker 1: legislative level. UM. I will tell you that I don't
41:01
Speaker 1: think this is something that the President came up with.
41:03
Speaker 1: I definitely don't think it's something that Secretary I think
41:05
Speaker 1: he came up with. I think this is pressure that's
41:07
Speaker 1: coming out of Utah. Um where you know, we like
41:11
Speaker 1: a lot of this kind of anti public land Rederick
41:15
Speaker 1: comes out of and whether that's you know, the sale
41:17
Speaker 1: of public lands or the change in management, and it's
41:20
Speaker 1: really being driven out of Utah and it's unfortunate. But
41:25
Speaker 1: it's also a place that there really isn't you know,
41:28
Speaker 1: a lot of sportsman engagement in Utah. And I think
41:31
Speaker 1: about you know, that's a you know, we're growing a
41:34
Speaker 1: chapter there, but it's it's Uh. I think part of
41:37
Speaker 1: the reason that that these policies are coming out of
41:40
Speaker 1: there and the anst is coming out of there, and
41:41
Speaker 1: just because there isn't really a good organized sportsman space
41:45
Speaker 1: in Utah, is there some is there some political back
41:50
Speaker 1: scratching happening here? Um that could be why some of
41:54
Speaker 1: these things are happening that the Utah delegation wants. But
41:57
Speaker 1: that seemed to be opposed to some of the other
41:59
Speaker 1: things that Secretary Zinki has has said are important to
42:03
Speaker 1: him in this administration, like public land I mean, you
42:05
Speaker 1: were hearing these things, you know, early on in the
42:08
Speaker 1: in the administration, that they're going to be four sportsmen
42:10
Speaker 1: and four public lands, etcetera, etcetera, Teddy Roosevelt Republican, um.
42:15
Speaker 1: But some of these actions more recently seem um, maybe
42:19
Speaker 1: not in line with that. Is this something you know
42:22
Speaker 1: that's getting right into the dirty stuff of politics, Maybe
42:24
Speaker 1: it's causing all this. I think I think that's part
42:28
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, I think you know, back to
42:30
Speaker 1: Roosevelt today, I mean you talked about how you know,
42:34
Speaker 1: he wasn't necessarily applauded by every single American for doing
42:37
Speaker 1: these destinations, right, there were people that were opposed to
42:39
Speaker 1: him and the people that were opposed to them. A
42:41
Speaker 1: really big industry, and I think if you don't have
42:43
Speaker 1: to look too much farther to simplify kind of what's
42:46
Speaker 1: going on here, is that you know, this is big industry.
42:49
Speaker 1: They've developed a lot of this country, and um, they
42:52
Speaker 1: want to develop arm you know, the the least sales
42:55
Speaker 1: that happened for oil and gas, like on the outside
42:57
Speaker 1: of bears, there's just this last year like that's right
43:01
Speaker 1: on the doorstep, and they want to get more and
43:03
Speaker 1: so and I think things that for us to think
43:05
Speaker 1: about as Americans is that, you know, oil and gas
43:08
Speaker 1: development is important, but it's like it's it's when that's
43:11
Speaker 1: done in the right way. And again, right now this
43:14
Speaker 1: market is flooded with with cheap oil and gas, and
43:17
Speaker 1: so it doesn't make sense for us to you have
43:19
Speaker 1: to develop in these places. Um. You know, what makes
43:23
Speaker 1: you America unique is you know, some of our protected
43:25
Speaker 1: places where we can hunt and fish, the protecting cultural
43:29
Speaker 1: resources you know, you name it, clean air, clean water,
43:32
Speaker 1: and I think you know, still go these public planers
43:34
Speaker 1: kind of still goes Americans. I think we really need
43:36
Speaker 1: to look ourselves in the mirror and and do we
43:38
Speaker 1: want these special places to continue? You know? I mean
43:41
Speaker 1: I think we haven't talked about other things yet, but
43:43
Speaker 1: you know, you look at the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
43:46
Speaker 1: up in Alaska, or Bristol Bay up in Alaska, or
43:50
Speaker 1: the Boundary you know, the Boundary water is up in Minnesota.
43:53
Speaker 1: These are all very very special places that not only
43:56
Speaker 1: again provide you know, great opportunity to hunt and fish, um,
44:00
Speaker 1: but are also you know, they provide clean air and
44:02
Speaker 1: clean water. And to me, you know, like that's that's
44:06
Speaker 1: the presence that's being said here is that it's kind
44:08
Speaker 1: of development at all costs, And I just don't I
44:11
Speaker 1: don't think that there's any point in our American history
44:13
Speaker 1: that development at all costs, you know, been in the
44:16
Speaker 1: best interest of the American people. Yeah, so something for
44:21
Speaker 1: us all the same busily. Absolutely, I think I think
44:24
Speaker 1: you're spot on, and of course to your point that
44:26
Speaker 1: there's a place for development. Of course, these different things
44:29
Speaker 1: are are important in moderation and balance in the right
44:33
Speaker 1: ways and the right places. And there are some places
44:35
Speaker 1: that that it's not right to have those types of things.
44:38
Speaker 1: And increasingly, I mean, there are fewer and fewer and
44:41
Speaker 1: fewer places left that haven't been developed, bought up, sold off, um,
44:46
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. So man, we just need to
44:48
Speaker 1: to protect or care for and conserve those last few
44:53
Speaker 1: remaining places and resources we have. And speaking to you know,
44:57
Speaker 1: kind of something you mentioned a little earlier, we talked
44:58
Speaker 1: a little bit about how this um recent proposed reduction
45:04
Speaker 1: these national monuments has gotten some people kind of using
45:07
Speaker 1: the same reddick that was used, and we talked about
45:09
Speaker 1: the public land transfer, the proposed sale that Chavit's had
45:12
Speaker 1: earlier in two thousands seventeen. I guess, um different things
45:16
Speaker 1: on those lines now, that kind of movement, the the idea,
45:20
Speaker 1: at least the public idea, you know, people talking about
45:23
Speaker 1: a lot of trying to transfer sell public lands to
45:25
Speaker 1: your point, got such a severe blowback from the hunting
45:28
Speaker 1: and fishing community and others in the recreation um community
45:31
Speaker 1: that I think that from what I've seen and heard,
45:34
Speaker 1: that's kind of died down a little bit just because
45:35
Speaker 1: they're kind of realizing how politically unpopular that is. But
45:39
Speaker 1: I think from what I'm gathering and seeing, it still
45:43
Speaker 1: seems like that is is a is a push, but
45:46
Speaker 1: still maybe a long term goal, but it's trying to
45:49
Speaker 1: be achieved by death by a thousand cuts. Um. It
45:52
Speaker 1: seems like now they're taking this tact to try to
45:55
Speaker 1: just slowly chip away at protection, slowly chip away at
45:59
Speaker 1: the resources of elible currently two agencies to manage these places,
46:02
Speaker 1: slowly chip away at things so that they can say
46:05
Speaker 1: five years from now, maybe well, you guys aren't doing
46:08
Speaker 1: a good job managing your federal your national force. You're
46:10
Speaker 1: not able to manage your BLM land. Um. The States
46:13
Speaker 1: could do a better job. Um. But of course the
46:17
Speaker 1: reason being is that you slash our budgets by you
46:19
Speaker 1: took away our law enforcement, uh you know, powers, you
46:23
Speaker 1: took all these different things, um am, I right in
46:26
Speaker 1: in this kind of analysis of what's happening. Mark, What
46:30
Speaker 1: I love is you're doing your research, you know. And
46:33
Speaker 1: I think that like your spot on and like ever
46:35
Speaker 1: the student, right, And I think that's important everybody that's
46:38
Speaker 1: listening to this is that you know, don't don't believe
46:42
Speaker 1: the rhetoric, like like look at the facts, right, And
46:45
Speaker 1: I think I think you're exactly right. Is that, you know,
46:48
Speaker 1: I think our community, in particular the sport sportsman's community,
46:52
Speaker 1: is in an awesome job at pushing back um. And
46:55
Speaker 1: so that has kind of gone to the back of
46:58
Speaker 1: the line um where you know what part of the
47:02
Speaker 1: push to kind of sell slash transfer these public lands
47:06
Speaker 1: has really ultimately been about distraction, you know. And so
47:10
Speaker 1: now whether these protections are lifted or as you say,
47:13
Speaker 1: budgets dwindle, um, you know, some of the same things
47:16
Speaker 1: are being accomplished. And so I think it's you know,
47:18
Speaker 1: up to all of us to say vigilant on that
47:20
Speaker 1: beas and and I ultimately, you know, I I'm a
47:25
Speaker 1: glass half all kind of guy, you know. UM, And
47:27
Speaker 1: I think that you know, out of these these times
47:31
Speaker 1: that sometimes you feel like there's a lot of pressure. Um,
47:34
Speaker 1: some great things come from that. You know, we've already
47:36
Speaker 1: talked about kind of you know where the antiquities that
47:38
Speaker 1: came originally kind of a conservation ethic. That's because this
47:41
Speaker 1: country was in a rough spot. I mean, we're basically
47:44
Speaker 1: coming close to wiping a lot of wildlife you know,
47:46
Speaker 1: off the off the American landscape. And in Hunters, you
47:49
Speaker 1: know change that. You know, you look at the dirty
47:51
Speaker 1: thuris when the lid was coming off the prairie when
47:54
Speaker 1: we have the dust bowl, and that's when Hunter stepped
47:57
Speaker 1: up and we you know, we taxed ourselves to Pitman Robertson. Um,
48:01
Speaker 1: we established the Duck stamps you know that would go
48:03
Speaker 1: right back into habitat. There's organizations like Ducks and limited
48:07
Speaker 1: the National Wilde Federation form. Then, Um, you look at
48:09
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties when you know, actual rivers were on
48:13
Speaker 1: fire in this country and that's where we got the
48:16
Speaker 1: Queen Are and clean water racks and and so you know,
48:20
Speaker 1: as we see what's going on now, what I think
48:23
Speaker 1: is that I hope it does. Is that really UM
48:27
Speaker 1: ignites kind of this this sportsman kind of conservation ethic
48:31
Speaker 1: that that you know, quite frankly maybe has been dormant
48:34
Speaker 1: for a little bit um and and people become complacent
48:37
Speaker 1: a little bit. And so with these threats, that hopes
48:40
Speaker 1: that you know, more people UM step up to the
48:42
Speaker 1: plate and that uh and that you know, not only
48:45
Speaker 1: do UM we help stave off some of the things
48:48
Speaker 1: that the threats that are out there, but that you know,
48:50
Speaker 1: that unite and just make this country you've been better. Yeah,
48:53
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great point. And you know, I've
48:55
Speaker 1: been spending a lot of time over the last year
48:57
Speaker 1: kind of studying the history of of our public lands
49:00
Speaker 1: and the challenges we've faced. And to your point, there
49:02
Speaker 1: definitely is this this back and forth that seems to happen,
49:05
Speaker 1: you know, every every ten fifteen years, where we'll have
49:07
Speaker 1: a great success and then you have this blowback. So
49:10
Speaker 1: you know, like you just said, like there's these issues
49:13
Speaker 1: that happened in the thirties and forties, we all of
49:14
Speaker 1: a sudden established some new protections. Hunters, fisher fisherman, others
49:18
Speaker 1: step up. We have some great things like uh, oh, jeez,
49:22
Speaker 1: like you mentioned Pitt, Pitt and Robertson, etcetera. Um. But
49:25
Speaker 1: then again in the fifties and sixties, then you have
49:28
Speaker 1: a kind of rise up of you know, more industry,
49:31
Speaker 1: more extraction, a little bit of unfettered capitalism that kind
49:34
Speaker 1: of goes maybe a little bit too far. And then
49:36
Speaker 1: again to your point, sixties and seventies, then there's the
49:38
Speaker 1: environmental kind of movement, and then it goes back the
49:41
Speaker 1: other way in the eighties with the sage brush rebellion
49:44
Speaker 1: and um. Again it's it's this interesting yo yo effect.
49:48
Speaker 1: So I hope you're right that we're now going to
49:50
Speaker 1: see while there are threats, you know, this is gonna
49:53
Speaker 1: be an opportunity for all those that care about these
49:55
Speaker 1: places and these resources to again stand up and kind
49:59
Speaker 1: of slow things down a little bit. Um. But could
50:03
Speaker 1: you elaborate a little bit on some of these different
50:06
Speaker 1: death by a thousand cuts, um things that are happening.
50:09
Speaker 1: You mentioned what's happening with the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
50:12
Speaker 1: Bristol Bay. Um. I think I would be interested in
50:14
Speaker 1: hearing about your thoughts on what's going on with the
50:16
Speaker 1: sage grouse conservation issue that's being rolled back, the BLM
50:20
Speaker 1: management stuff being rolled back. A lot of things like
50:23
Speaker 1: that all happening, and it's kind of fallen underneath the
50:25
Speaker 1: radar because there's so many things now. But before we
50:28
Speaker 1: have land tackle that one, let's take a quick second
50:31
Speaker 1: to thank our partners at White Tailed Properties. This week
50:35
Speaker 1: with White Tailed Properties, we are joined by Brandon Schwartzlander,
50:39
Speaker 1: a land specialist out of Illinois, and Brandon is going
50:41
Speaker 1: to be telling us about the importance of getting the
50:44
Speaker 1: next generation involved with land management. You know, that's a
50:48
Speaker 1: great question. I think, Uh me personally, I think getting
50:52
Speaker 1: kids involved early, and maybe not just kids, but but
50:56
Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't experienced the outdoors or land. I'm mean,
51:00
Speaker 1: it's it's just such an awesome advance. I honestly gotta
51:03
Speaker 1: have to pinch myself sometimes because I need to do
51:05
Speaker 1: this for a living. But you know when when I
51:08
Speaker 1: have girls and some of them hunt, some of them
51:12
Speaker 1: don't hunt, but just just being out we all shoot,
51:16
Speaker 1: we all shoot bowse um, and we all experience the outdoors,
51:20
Speaker 1: we shed hunt, we do all those things together. I
51:22
Speaker 1: just think that you can take away so much more
51:26
Speaker 1: by spending time with whether it's your family, or friends
51:30
Speaker 1: or whomever in in the woods or or you know,
51:33
Speaker 1: on a piece of land. It's it's it's so much
51:36
Speaker 1: better than than you know, having a phone stuck in
51:39
Speaker 1: your face or a laptop or whatever. I just think
51:41
Speaker 1: it gives us an opportunity to go back to to
51:43
Speaker 1: what we we're raised on and and I think, you know,
51:47
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's missing to some degree and in society today.
51:51
Speaker 1: But I just think when when you introduce things at
51:53
Speaker 1: an early age. I think I was probably five when
51:56
Speaker 1: I started um in the outdoors with my dad. But
51:59
Speaker 1: it makes you want to be better, and it takes
52:02
Speaker 1: you away from, you know, things that that can be
52:05
Speaker 1: a negative influence. I just I feel like it's it's
52:07
Speaker 1: such a positive thing for especially with family. I mean,
52:10
Speaker 1: when you can can do those things with your kids
52:13
Speaker 1: and your wife or whatever. If you'd like to learn
52:16
Speaker 1: more and to see the properties that Brandon currently has
52:18
Speaker 1: listed for sale, visit white tail properties dot com. Backslash
52:23
Speaker 1: swords Lander that's s W A R t Z l
52:27
Speaker 1: A N D E R. And now back to my
52:31
Speaker 1: question for land. Regarding other public land issues and concerns, yeah,
52:37
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I think the stage gross is
52:39
Speaker 1: what's going on stage. Grass is a perfect example. So
52:42
Speaker 1: setback trying to do this high level that I can.
52:44
Speaker 1: I don't want them. If you want to ask more questions,
52:46
Speaker 1: please do. But um so, the you know, like sage
52:51
Speaker 1: grouse numbers are going down, potential for them to be
52:54
Speaker 1: listened as in dangered species is real. With that, you know,
52:58
Speaker 1: if they were designated asn't endangered, the sus that comes
53:00
Speaker 1: with all sorts of regulations and has huge implications for ranchers,
53:06
Speaker 1: has huge applications for oil and gas development. And so
53:09
Speaker 1: about a decade ago people started working together and you
53:12
Speaker 1: know it's oil and gas, ranchers, state agencies, federal agencies,
53:18
Speaker 1: hundred hundred angler kind of organizations, and you know some
53:23
Speaker 1: other kind of conservation organizations to try to how do
53:26
Speaker 1: we how do we continue the traditions of ranching, how
53:30
Speaker 1: do we continue to develop oil and gas, and how
53:33
Speaker 1: do we protect this habitat? And so you know, through
53:35
Speaker 1: that they came up with a conservation collaborative plan that
53:40
Speaker 1: really helps stave off the listen to that bird. And
53:43
Speaker 1: it was a path forward for everybody, which included you know,
53:46
Speaker 1: oil and gas development. And you know, I think that
53:49
Speaker 1: there's some folks that don't ever want to see any
53:51
Speaker 1: more oil and gas ever taken off of our public lands.
53:54
Speaker 1: And I think, um there have a right to their opinion,
53:57
Speaker 1: but that's it's not reality. And so what this did,
54:00
Speaker 1: because it really did a couple of things that you
54:02
Speaker 1: know did made it so oil and gas will be
54:05
Speaker 1: done kind of um a phased kind of approach where
54:09
Speaker 1: instead of having a huge industrial complex like you're, you're
54:12
Speaker 1: doing oil and gas development and then clean it up
54:15
Speaker 1: kind of as you go, so the impacts on the
54:17
Speaker 1: resource are less. Um. And then it really did a
54:19
Speaker 1: good job of standing out of like focal areas um
54:23
Speaker 1: for stage grafs habitat and so you know, they do
54:27
Speaker 1: a thing called leaking in the spring where they get
54:29
Speaker 1: together and they do this little dance for the ladies
54:32
Speaker 1: and that's kind of their breeding regiment. And any kind
54:35
Speaker 1: of disturbance around these areas really, um it makes them
54:39
Speaker 1: so they don't they don't reproduce as well. And so
54:42
Speaker 1: those areas were less alone. They're called stage crafts core
54:44
Speaker 1: areas and and so now, um, this all happened, right,
54:49
Speaker 1: and I think collaboration, you know, there's there's uh when
54:53
Speaker 1: when you collaborate, you don't get everything that you want,
54:56
Speaker 1: you know, and that's just the nature of collaboration at
54:59
Speaker 1: the same time, and that's the way America works, you know, UM,
55:02
Speaker 1: is that that they have to compromise and and so
55:05
Speaker 1: it was a path forward that everybody could live with.
55:08
Speaker 1: And now new administration, UM, they're rolling back those conservation
55:13
Speaker 1: kind of collaborative, collaborative plans and and what that does.
55:17
Speaker 1: I think it does a couple of things. I think
55:19
Speaker 1: it has the immediate impact to sage grouse and the
55:22
Speaker 1: stage you know step ecosystem that they depend on, which
55:26
Speaker 1: also three four other species depend on, like prong worn
55:28
Speaker 1: antelope and mule deery in particular about a host of
55:32
Speaker 1: songbirds and other species that you know, I feel like
55:35
Speaker 1: an important that on the landscape. UM. So it has
55:38
Speaker 1: that initial impact there, but it's also you know, this
55:41
Speaker 1: idea that you're not supporting this collaborative work that happened
55:44
Speaker 1: over at decade and so the collaboration is not easy.
55:47
Speaker 1: There's a lot of trust that is built there, um,
55:50
Speaker 1: and there's compromise and those are tough decisions that are made,
55:53
Speaker 1: but they're made. And and so you know, besides what
55:57
Speaker 1: this means to the habitat. Like I think it really
56:00
Speaker 1: flies in the space that kind of collaboratives kind of effort,
56:02
Speaker 1: and that has implications I think outside of sage grouse,
56:05
Speaker 1: has been implications for other collaborative efforts that are going
56:08
Speaker 1: on over this country. And um it to me, that's
56:12
Speaker 1: like those are the two big hits. And you know, really, um,
56:16
Speaker 1: what the administration is talking about is running back these
56:18
Speaker 1: plans and then managing strictly for population size and not
56:23
Speaker 1: for habitat. And I think, you know, population size is
56:28
Speaker 1: one indication on how things are doing. But you know,
56:31
Speaker 1: they've talked about raising pen stage grouse, which has been
56:36
Speaker 1: tried with other grouse species that are very similar and
56:38
Speaker 1: it's been highly ineffective. Um. And then you know what
56:43
Speaker 1: what happens when you have you know, a good population
56:46
Speaker 1: let's say, of sage grouse in Montana and Wyoming, and
56:49
Speaker 1: we decided that we're just going to sacrifice Idaho and Utah.
56:52
Speaker 1: So um to me. Uh, you know what's interesting is
56:57
Speaker 1: that the pushback has been pretty universal both from uh
57:03
Speaker 1: Western governors from the Republican Party and from the Democratic
57:07
Speaker 1: Party and so UM, but they're not being listened to
57:10
Speaker 1: and I think that's the troubling part about this piece.
57:13
Speaker 1: And so you know, as I think the real threat
57:16
Speaker 1: here is is that you know, yes, you're gonna have
57:19
Speaker 1: like the oil and gas folks are gonna have some
57:21
Speaker 1: initial years you know as this is realized where they
57:23
Speaker 1: get to maybe do things in a more kind of
57:27
Speaker 1: wide open arena. But what happens if this bird does
57:30
Speaker 1: get listed, you know, I mean that that's again where
57:33
Speaker 1: they're going to have that, then they'll make you major
57:35
Speaker 1: regulations on what they can do as well as ranching community.
57:38
Speaker 1: And so that's the unfortunate side of this thing. And
57:40
Speaker 1: UM to me, it's again it's just ignoring kind of
57:44
Speaker 1: what the people want UM and listening to kind of
57:48
Speaker 1: one one entity and that really is the oil and
57:51
Speaker 1: gas UH entity. And that's that's not what that collaborative
57:54
Speaker 1: effort was about. And I don't think that's what America
57:56
Speaker 1: is about. Yeah, speaking speaking of UH, some of the
58:01
Speaker 1: issues with some extraction UM industry desires, I guess you
58:04
Speaker 1: would touched on the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and UM
58:09
Speaker 1: I I this past September got to go on a
58:13
Speaker 1: caribou hunt not quite not quite in the Arctic National
58:16
Speaker 1: Wildlife Refuge just south of their little ways. But but
58:19
Speaker 1: me and Steve Ronella and Yanni and that whole crew
58:23
Speaker 1: was up there and just had an unbelievable experience UM
58:27
Speaker 1: and just getting a taste of that type of place,
58:30
Speaker 1: that kind of scale of a landscape and seeing that wildlife,
58:35
Speaker 1: just the immensity of the amount of life there UM
58:38
Speaker 1: in a seemingly untouched, still pristine place. It was just
58:43
Speaker 1: it was unbelievable. And it is good to know that
58:47
Speaker 1: there are still places like that. In the Arctic National
58:49
Speaker 1: Wildlife Refuge is one such place that is so renowned
58:52
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of those places that even
58:54
Speaker 1: if you never get to go there, and just knowing
58:56
Speaker 1: that that is still there, it's still availed. UM that
59:01
Speaker 1: at least for me, holds a lot of power UM
59:04
Speaker 1: and and and uh and value. Can you talk a
59:07
Speaker 1: little bit about what's happening there? What why there's some
59:10
Speaker 1: potential new threats and it's been an ongoing thing for
59:12
Speaker 1: decades really, but why now most recently maybe there's concern
59:16
Speaker 1: about the future of that are too. That's great, by
59:20
Speaker 1: the way, it's super jealous that you got to go
59:22
Speaker 1: on that hunt. I had an opportunity to go on
59:26
Speaker 1: a hunt in the Arctic National Wildfe Refuge in August.
59:28
Speaker 1: That's one of our board members ended up going on
59:31
Speaker 1: um as well as you know, a film crew to
59:34
Speaker 1: go do a film up there. And it happened to
59:36
Speaker 1: be the same week as my wife's forty yet birthday,
59:38
Speaker 1: And so I made the proper decision and stay at home.
59:42
Speaker 1: But I'm definitely tell us that opportunity you had um.
59:46
Speaker 1: You know, the like I think i'd step back first
59:48
Speaker 1: is that part of when the Arctic National Waldfe Refuge
59:51
Speaker 1: was designated, it was designated as a compromise to develop
59:54
Speaker 1: them on the north slope. And so you know, here's
59:58
Speaker 1: you can oil and gas can developed on the north slope,
1:00:01
Speaker 1: and that's more appropriate there because it's a less sensitive
1:00:04
Speaker 1: kind of wildlife habitat um and landscape and and and
1:00:09
Speaker 1: so there was a compromise made that Okay, we're gonna
1:00:12
Speaker 1: kind of the American people who want oil and gas
1:00:15
Speaker 1: develop it's allot to do that on the north slope,
1:00:17
Speaker 1: and they also want protections of you know, wild that
1:00:19
Speaker 1: habitat and like these large landscapes that as you describe,
1:00:23
Speaker 1: we're not making any more of them. Right, like what
1:00:25
Speaker 1: we have now is what we have. And so that
1:00:27
Speaker 1: was that compromise and it's really, um, you know, it
1:00:31
Speaker 1: was not done without controversy, but it's it's so far
1:00:33
Speaker 1: it's carried forward and it's you know, it's this amazing place.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: And so now, um, you know, there's already kind of
1:00:39
Speaker 1: some testing that's been done on oil and gas potential
1:00:43
Speaker 1: um on the coastal kind of region of that refuge. Um.
1:00:46
Speaker 1: That also happens to be where you know, the largest
1:00:49
Speaker 1: caribou heard up there, you know, the porcupine herd goes
1:00:52
Speaker 1: right through it, um, and so it's a very sensitive
1:00:55
Speaker 1: kind of area and those concerns, and so there's been
1:00:59
Speaker 1: some tests just to kind of you know, check on
1:01:01
Speaker 1: kind of the potential oil and gas deposits there. Um.
1:01:05
Speaker 1: And then just recently with the tax the tax cuts
1:01:10
Speaker 1: and they got passed, Um, there's a provision in there
1:01:13
Speaker 1: and that that basically is is kind of starting the
1:01:17
Speaker 1: process for development up and up on the on the
1:01:20
Speaker 1: national other refuge. So it's not realized yet, but it's
1:01:24
Speaker 1: definitely paving the way for it. And and so it's
1:01:27
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's again it's one of these things,
1:01:31
Speaker 1: and I keep talking about compromising. The reason I kind
1:01:33
Speaker 1: of keep bringing it up is because compromise has been
1:01:36
Speaker 1: it's becomes a dirty word, has come as a dirty word.
1:01:39
Speaker 1: I think out in Congress, out in Washington, do see.
1:01:43
Speaker 1: But it's really kind of been, you know, it's it's
1:01:45
Speaker 1: it's it's gone away from the ethos I think of
1:01:47
Speaker 1: the American people. And so you know, you Understandford and
1:01:51
Speaker 1: everything is so black and white these days, and you know,
1:01:54
Speaker 1: you and I could go to the local tavern and
1:01:57
Speaker 1: and you know, try to figure out what kind of
1:01:59
Speaker 1: pitch we're gonna we're gonna buy. And if we're both
1:02:02
Speaker 1: black and white on that, like we don't drink the
1:02:04
Speaker 1: same beer, we don't really want to hang out. You know.
1:02:06
Speaker 1: That's it's not the way this world works. I don't think.
1:02:08
Speaker 1: I think you know people they compromise all the time. Well,
1:02:11
Speaker 1: that's with your home life and you know, your significant other,
1:02:13
Speaker 1: with your friends, or you know, the way I think
1:02:15
Speaker 1: that Congress should work. And so this is a compromise
1:02:18
Speaker 1: that was, it was put in place, and now you know,
1:02:21
Speaker 1: the tides are turning the other way. And um to me,
1:02:25
Speaker 1: you know, it's again one of these special places that
1:02:28
Speaker 1: once you start to defile that it's never ever going
1:02:31
Speaker 1: to be the same. And well, I didn't go on
1:02:33
Speaker 1: that trip this summer. Um, it's a thing that I
1:02:36
Speaker 1: covered and just seeing like the footage from that and
1:02:39
Speaker 1: then you know, jar our board, remember that went on
1:02:41
Speaker 1: that hunt, ended up harvesting the cariboo, and you know,
1:02:44
Speaker 1: it's to see the landscape that he was in and
1:02:46
Speaker 1: the reverence that he had coming back from that. It
1:02:49
Speaker 1: was a life kind of changing trip and you know,
1:02:51
Speaker 1: maybe I'll never get to go up there, but man,
1:02:53
Speaker 1: it's gonna be something that I dream about for the
1:02:54
Speaker 1: rest of my life. And just knowing that it's there, um,
1:02:58
Speaker 1: you know, I think one gives me a little to
1:03:00
Speaker 1: solace of those kind of places they're there, but it
1:03:01
Speaker 1: also gives something me to aspire to as well. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely,
1:03:06
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of a lot more examples of
1:03:09
Speaker 1: these types of things happening right now. You know, like
1:03:11
Speaker 1: we kind of touched on a handful of them, but
1:03:13
Speaker 1: there's there's more. It's it's hard to keep track of everything, um,
1:03:16
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's hard to know what to do a
1:03:20
Speaker 1: little bit. And I think sometimes the disappointing thing. I
1:03:25
Speaker 1: think one of the distant appointing things coming out of
1:03:27
Speaker 1: all this is that things like conservation and protecting wildlife
1:03:31
Speaker 1: habitat in these places, it's become very very politicized, right,
1:03:34
Speaker 1: It's become a very partisan thing. And then unfortunately, you
1:03:37
Speaker 1: get these dividing lines, you know, drawn down the middle
1:03:41
Speaker 1: of groups of people. Um. Even though in many cases
1:03:44
Speaker 1: we believe and care about the same things. But when
1:03:47
Speaker 1: you draw this arbitrary line down the middle and say, well,
1:03:50
Speaker 1: if you are you know, if you're blue, you have
1:03:53
Speaker 1: to be on this side of the of the issue
1:03:54
Speaker 1: and that side of line. If you're read, you have
1:03:55
Speaker 1: to be on this side of the issue and that
1:03:57
Speaker 1: side of the line. And it makes things tough. Um.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: And and you know, for example, think about this. You
1:04:03
Speaker 1: know I'm a huge much too. I know you won't
1:04:05
Speaker 1: like this, but I'm a huge Michigan State Spartan fan, right,
1:04:09
Speaker 1: So I know you've got those U of m roots, um,
1:04:14
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm a huge Michigan State starting fan and
1:04:16
Speaker 1: I'm part of that team. Um. So when someone on
1:04:20
Speaker 1: the Spartans, when a player or someone makes a mistake
1:04:23
Speaker 1: or something, I tend to give them the benefit the
1:04:25
Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. I will tend to say, I
1:04:28
Speaker 1: know that's fine, or I tend to not want to
1:04:30
Speaker 1: talk badly about them, or I tend not to want
1:04:33
Speaker 1: to say, no, you made a mistake. You gotta do
1:04:35
Speaker 1: things differently, right, because that's my team. I want to
1:04:38
Speaker 1: just you know, I kind of want to you become
1:04:40
Speaker 1: almost an apologist. Um, if your team does something that,
1:04:43
Speaker 1: even if you know what's wrong in the back of
1:04:44
Speaker 1: your mind, you do, you want to kind of sweep
1:04:45
Speaker 1: it under the rugs sometimes. And I worry sometimes that
1:04:49
Speaker 1: that same kind of thing might be happening in the
1:04:51
Speaker 1: case of kind of what's happening with our public lands
1:04:54
Speaker 1: and wild places sometimes, because when you've got one team
1:04:58
Speaker 1: out there that's that's kind kind of cutting away at
1:05:00
Speaker 1: these places a lot. Um, that's something that I think
1:05:03
Speaker 1: a lot of us can agree is not a good idea.
1:05:06
Speaker 1: But you know, that team might be doing some other
1:05:08
Speaker 1: things that we do like a lot. So some folks
1:05:10
Speaker 1: don't want to apologize for that or or ignore that
1:05:13
Speaker 1: and and just focus on the things that are, you know,
1:05:15
Speaker 1: make them feel okay and comfortable with being on that team. Um.
1:05:18
Speaker 1: I think that's a danger, and I think that's a
1:05:21
Speaker 1: missed opportunity because lots of times um that Michigan State
1:05:25
Speaker 1: spartan's making a mistake. He probably won't listen to the
1:05:28
Speaker 1: uf M fan, but they might listen listen to the
1:05:30
Speaker 1: Michigan State fan. The Michigan State fan has that disproportionate
1:05:34
Speaker 1: opportunity to make a change because you can say, hey,
1:05:37
Speaker 1: I'm on your team, I want to support you, but
1:05:39
Speaker 1: you're making some huge mistakes. Listen to your people. Start
1:05:43
Speaker 1: caring about these things. Now, this is a huge, you know,
1:05:46
Speaker 1: analogy kind of about what's happening here with our with
1:05:49
Speaker 1: our public lands and some issues with with some of
1:05:52
Speaker 1: these ideas coming from the Republican side of of the
1:05:56
Speaker 1: of the political um sphere that you know. I think
1:06:00
Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks in the hunting and fishing
1:06:01
Speaker 1: world that that leaned to the right side of the
1:06:03
Speaker 1: of you know, the right of center, that have an
1:06:07
Speaker 1: opportunity to say, hey, folks, we voted for you, but
1:06:11
Speaker 1: this is not what we've voted for this specific type
1:06:13
Speaker 1: of thing. I mean, where do you stand on all
1:06:15
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff? And how do we how do
1:06:17
Speaker 1: we deal with this challenge? How do we make change
1:06:20
Speaker 1: when um politics get all mixed in and messed up
1:06:24
Speaker 1: with it all. I think that's a super awesome analogy
1:06:28
Speaker 1: and I may steal it going forward, so if you
1:06:32
Speaker 1: ever hear me about it, like I told you, I
1:06:34
Speaker 1: was going to do it, but that's okay, I guess
1:06:38
Speaker 1: I could ask permission. But I think it's an awesome analogy.
1:06:40
Speaker 1: And I think you're totally right. I think that, you know,
1:06:43
Speaker 1: this country is run by those who show up. And
1:06:46
Speaker 1: I think that that when people, uh, you know, I
1:06:51
Speaker 1: think hold people accountable. I think when they when they
1:06:53
Speaker 1: applaud you know, folks for doing the right thing. And
1:06:56
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of great stuff that's happening on access
1:06:58
Speaker 1: right now. But you know, I think that um, it's
1:07:01
Speaker 1: very important to applaud folcus on um from both sides
1:07:04
Speaker 1: of the aisle. I think that, uh, you know, when
1:07:07
Speaker 1: when there's things that are being done that that kind
1:07:10
Speaker 1: of benefit of the doubt or you know, they're on
1:07:13
Speaker 1: my I'm on their team and I'm just going to
1:07:14
Speaker 1: kind of look the other way. That's where we enable
1:07:17
Speaker 1: that behavior. And I think, really, I think that when
1:07:21
Speaker 1: you're on the team, like you said, and sometimes you
1:07:24
Speaker 1: have more of an opportunity to influencing. So and I
1:07:26
Speaker 1: think the again going back to Connors and chaf Fits,
1:07:29
Speaker 1: you know, back this last spring as a perfect example
1:07:32
Speaker 1: of you know, people from all walks of life, both
1:07:35
Speaker 1: sides of the eye out both teams, pushing back in
1:07:37
Speaker 1: a politician listening right like he pulled back his support
1:07:40
Speaker 1: of that bill within a week. And so I think
1:07:43
Speaker 1: it's vitally important for people to uh step up, um
1:07:47
Speaker 1: and and raise kind of their opinions the folks when
1:07:49
Speaker 1: they disagree. And if you don't do that, um, then
1:07:53
Speaker 1: you know, part of me is it's it's then you know,
1:07:55
Speaker 1: like you get what you get what you get there
1:07:58
Speaker 1: and and and to me, this country has always been
1:08:03
Speaker 1: run on those people that show up. And I think
1:08:05
Speaker 1: people's voices still do count, and I think that they're
1:08:08
Speaker 1: vitally important. Right now went on an array of issues
1:08:12
Speaker 1: um to to really you don't talk about and you know,
1:08:15
Speaker 1: I think there's you know, there's there's the side of
1:08:18
Speaker 1: the aisle. You know that um that that continually and
1:08:22
Speaker 1: they're mostly on the coast. I think the Democrats and
1:08:26
Speaker 1: the center part of the country have gotten it, but
1:08:29
Speaker 1: there's still those that you know that want heavy heavy
1:08:31
Speaker 1: gun restrictions. That's on an issue that vh A really
1:08:34
Speaker 1: deals with. But you know, I think like democrats can
1:08:38
Speaker 1: be pushing back to Democrats and like and pushing back
1:08:40
Speaker 1: on some of that stuff. I mean, I would say
1:08:42
Speaker 1: that some of the same things about some of the
1:08:44
Speaker 1: anti hunting on that side, restrictions you know, for mountain
1:08:48
Speaker 1: lion hunting in California is a good example. There's more
1:08:51
Speaker 1: Democrats that would step up and say that's not good
1:08:53
Speaker 1: for the resource and that's not good for you know,
1:08:56
Speaker 1: kind of carrying conservation forward. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten
1:08:59
Speaker 1: that band there. Um. And so I think that it's
1:09:02
Speaker 1: important for people to step up and no matter what
1:09:04
Speaker 1: that issue is, um and provide feedback because ultimately that's
1:09:07
Speaker 1: what these you know, elected officials are elected for is
1:09:11
Speaker 1: to represent the people. And if you know, you voiced
1:09:14
Speaker 1: your opinion, I think that gives them more food for
1:09:18
Speaker 1: thought and how they will actually get things done. So um,
1:09:21
Speaker 1: you know, if I had had any advice the people,
1:09:24
Speaker 1: as your voice does still count. You know that background
1:09:27
Speaker 1: your owners and anglers. We try to make that as
1:09:28
Speaker 1: easy as possible. Provide your background and then provide you
1:09:32
Speaker 1: hemio and phone numbers to utilize. And you know, just
1:09:35
Speaker 1: an example of that is on this you know stage
1:09:38
Speaker 1: stage grouse um kind of conservation plans that you know,
1:09:42
Speaker 1: they had a comment period that lasted I think through
1:09:45
Speaker 1: last Friday, and you know, we were making it easy
1:09:48
Speaker 1: for people to engage in that effort and so um,
1:09:51
Speaker 1: well that's us with somebody else. I just encourage people to,
1:09:53
Speaker 1: uh to really do the research. I mean, you're very
1:09:57
Speaker 1: educated today and understand kind of the lay of the land.
1:09:59
Speaker 1: That's because you and taking the time to do it.
1:10:01
Speaker 1: And I think people need to do that and they
1:10:03
Speaker 1: also need to engage alright, real quick before we move on,
1:10:07
Speaker 1: we're gonna take our final break of the day for
1:10:09
Speaker 1: a word from our partners at Matthew's Archery. And as
1:10:13
Speaker 1: we mentioned last week, Matthews recently launched their new TRIACs bow.
1:10:18
Speaker 1: So here with this today to talk a little bit
1:10:19
Speaker 1: more about that bow and the cross centric camp system
1:10:22
Speaker 1: that is on that bow. Is Mark Hayes, a design
1:10:25
Speaker 1: engineer for Matthews Archery. The cross centric was born of
1:10:30
Speaker 1: a concentric camp, which was the no camp. So we'll
1:10:33
Speaker 1: start the story in two thousand and fifteen, we built
1:10:36
Speaker 1: the no Cam HDR, which was the most tunable bow
1:10:40
Speaker 1: and the most accurate bow we've ever created. UM, it
1:10:44
Speaker 1: was truly uh an experience to tune it. They could
1:10:47
Speaker 1: tune any era, whether it was spined correctly or not,
1:10:50
Speaker 1: or whether the user had a weird grip or not.
1:10:52
Speaker 1: It would just tune UM because of those concentric cams. Now,
1:10:59
Speaker 1: the one thing you good knock on a no cam
1:11:01
Speaker 1: was the speed it did lack. And now it wasn't
1:11:03
Speaker 1: slow by any means, but nowadays how everyone's pushing the
1:11:07
Speaker 1: envelope on speed. It was not up to that bar.
1:11:10
Speaker 1: So incomes of a halon in two thousands sixteen, the
1:11:15
Speaker 1: cross centric cam UM. It allowed us to have that
1:11:18
Speaker 1: amazing tuneability, incredible accuracy with the speed. The way we
1:11:24
Speaker 1: did that was the backside of the cam is actually
1:11:27
Speaker 1: concentric still so at full draw, what does that mean?
1:11:30
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, what does concentric actually mean? No problem.
1:11:33
Speaker 1: So the concentric means that the string trek itself is
1:11:37
Speaker 1: a perfect circle with the center being the axle, and
1:11:41
Speaker 1: that means that your string will never change the distance
1:11:45
Speaker 1: from the axle. So you can't imagine if you had
1:11:47
Speaker 1: a big two big cams on each side at full draw,
1:11:51
Speaker 1: they could be different distances from the axle if they
1:11:53
Speaker 1: were slightly out of tune, and that's going to throw
1:11:57
Speaker 1: a vertical knock travel into the path of the the arraw.
1:12:01
Speaker 1: So with our burger buttons being the center in a
1:12:04
Speaker 1: concentric uh string track at full draw, no matter what
1:12:10
Speaker 1: whether your timing is on or off slightly, you're always
1:12:13
Speaker 1: the same distance from the ACTL. I mean, it's gonna
1:12:15
Speaker 1: be easy to tune and incredibly accurate. If you'd like
1:12:18
Speaker 1: to learn more about the Matthews tracks or the cross
1:12:21
Speaker 1: centric camp system, you can visit Matthews Inc. Dot com. Yeah,
1:12:26
Speaker 1: and to your point about what what b h A
1:12:28
Speaker 1: has got going on, really a lot of growth when
1:12:30
Speaker 1: it comes to those local chapters across the country. Now,
1:12:34
Speaker 1: you know, we start a chapter in Michigan a couple
1:12:37
Speaker 1: of years ago that I'm on the board of directors for,
1:12:39
Speaker 1: and now I think Ohio and Texas and a lot
1:12:41
Speaker 1: of places. You know. I know, you guys originally had
1:12:44
Speaker 1: that stronghold in the West and that's now grown across
1:12:46
Speaker 1: the country. So no matter where you're at, um, you know,
1:12:49
Speaker 1: these are things that that can apply to you and
1:12:52
Speaker 1: that do and then I think should matter to Americans
1:12:54
Speaker 1: all across the the nation. And UM, you know, b
1:12:57
Speaker 1: H is a great organization to help you and to
1:13:00
Speaker 1: help facilitate, you know, understanding these issues and taking action
1:13:04
Speaker 1: on so so I would definitely encourage anyone listening. And
1:13:06
Speaker 1: again I've I've talked about this a lot, but it's
1:13:08
Speaker 1: an organization worth taking a look at and getting involved with.
1:13:12
Speaker 1: Um land, I want to really quick, I know you gotta,
1:13:14
Speaker 1: I gotta, you gotta bounce here quickly, but just back
1:13:18
Speaker 1: to the issue we began with the National Monument thing,
1:13:21
Speaker 1: just because I know this is one of those things
1:13:23
Speaker 1: that hunters and anglers are getting questions about or they're
1:13:25
Speaker 1: hearing about and they're just trying to wrap their head
1:13:27
Speaker 1: around it. Can you again just reiterate we we touched
1:13:30
Speaker 1: on this, but can you just reiterate, like the bullet
1:13:33
Speaker 1: point one to three things that from a hunter and
1:13:35
Speaker 1: angler perspective, we need to understand as far as what
1:13:39
Speaker 1: the recent announcements mean and what we as hunters and
1:13:41
Speaker 1: anglers might want to UM push for or advocate for
1:13:45
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks and months and years. Is this
1:13:47
Speaker 1: kind of becomes litigated and um all those tests of things. Yeah.
1:13:52
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the first one is is that
1:13:54
Speaker 1: you know, Access has me and talked about a lot
1:13:57
Speaker 1: and you know this is not this is not a
1:14:00
Speaker 1: real land grab. This was just increased protection and so
1:14:04
Speaker 1: you know we can we can still hunt and fish
1:14:06
Speaker 1: all the monuments that were under review, um, you know
1:14:09
Speaker 1: after they were designated as national monuments and that you know,
1:14:12
Speaker 1: what this really is about is undoing protections. It's not
1:14:15
Speaker 1: about selling this land. And I think you know, we
1:14:19
Speaker 1: talked about that a few times, but I think that's
1:14:20
Speaker 1: just it's important to reiterate because there's a lot of
1:14:22
Speaker 1: that bed rick out there again that this is you know,
1:14:25
Speaker 1: the president is stilling your land. Well he's not. He's
1:14:28
Speaker 1: not stealing your land. He's just taking away protections. Ultimately,
1:14:31
Speaker 1: that would probably be bad for outenam fishing. But um,
1:14:34
Speaker 1: you know we've got we've got opportunities to still hunting
1:14:37
Speaker 1: fish there now if these protections have been lifted. It's
1:14:39
Speaker 1: just like, you know, are we really going to want
1:14:42
Speaker 1: to go there if the habitat isn't there and that
1:14:44
Speaker 1: has something to be determined. You know, the bossuits are
1:14:47
Speaker 1: going to happen. This will probably decided about the Supreme Court.
1:14:50
Speaker 1: I'm confident, at least from the research that we've done
1:14:53
Speaker 1: that this lives in illegal activity and that these places
1:14:55
Speaker 1: will stay the same. Um. But then you have I think, really, um,
1:14:59
Speaker 1: you the legislative proposals that can change the law, which
1:15:02
Speaker 1: will ultimately decide on how these monuments are designated or
1:15:05
Speaker 1: potentially roll them back. UM. I think as you look
1:15:08
Speaker 1: at national monuments, you know, going forward, I would steer
1:15:12
Speaker 1: people again towards this report we did. It's called National
1:15:15
Speaker 1: Monuments and Sports's Perspective. It really talks about the history
1:15:18
Speaker 1: of how national monuments came into play. Uh, talks about um,
1:15:22
Speaker 1: you know, kind of some of the awesome places that
1:15:25
Speaker 1: you can hunt right now that are disneys national monuments,
1:15:27
Speaker 1: and it also talks about national monuments going forward, and
1:15:30
Speaker 1: you know, how we would like to see that happen.
1:15:32
Speaker 1: And I think the big pieces there is that hunters
1:15:35
Speaker 1: and anglers are involved, you know, from the beginning of
1:15:37
Speaker 1: these designations, and so that their input is heard. I
1:15:40
Speaker 1: think that the state agencies maintains the management of those
1:15:44
Speaker 1: fish and wildlife resources that are there, and that the
1:15:47
Speaker 1: federal agencies that currently are engaged um with those monuments
1:15:52
Speaker 1: like before Services and Bureau of Land Management maintain that
1:15:56
Speaker 1: kind of level of management afterwards as well. So um,
1:15:59
Speaker 1: that kind of like the simple and dirty. Um, stay
1:16:02
Speaker 1: tuned on that piece. I think we'll see what happens
1:16:05
Speaker 1: with the lawsuits and then I think the more immediate
1:16:08
Speaker 1: threat probably it's really with the legislative threats, and so
1:16:11
Speaker 1: just stay tuned on that front as well. Yeah, well, Land,
1:16:14
Speaker 1: I appreciate taking the time to walk us through all this.
1:16:16
Speaker 1: Lots of things happening these days when it comes to
1:16:19
Speaker 1: public lands, wildlife and wildlife have attacked, and I appreciate
1:16:22
Speaker 1: what you and and your organization are doing to help
1:16:25
Speaker 1: keep hunters and anglers abreast of the issues, help us
1:16:27
Speaker 1: kind of make sense of it all, and then helping us,
1:16:30
Speaker 1: you know, take action to to protect these wild places
1:16:32
Speaker 1: and wild animals that we as sportsmen women that we
1:16:35
Speaker 1: care so much about. So we appreciate that Land, and
1:16:38
Speaker 1: I certainly will keep going do my best to help
1:16:40
Speaker 1: the cost to Mark. Appreciate your time today. I always
1:16:45
Speaker 1: enjoy getting on with you. Um Again, I think you're
1:16:48
Speaker 1: putting doing your research, which I totally appreciate, and I
1:16:51
Speaker 1: think that you know through all these times with rhetoric,
1:16:54
Speaker 1: it's really important to kind of cut through that with information.
1:16:57
Speaker 1: And I also say that the last thing is the
1:16:59
Speaker 1: huge thank you got absolutely crushed meant in Michigan. I
1:17:01
Speaker 1: think I saw something this week that you guys have
1:17:04
Speaker 1: increased membership, you know, like on this last year, and
1:17:09
Speaker 1: that's just amazing to me. And that's because of the
1:17:11
Speaker 1: hard work that you guys are doing. And so I
1:17:13
Speaker 1: love about this organization is that it's real people doing
1:17:16
Speaker 1: real things, and you know, that's how this world works
1:17:19
Speaker 1: and that's how it's going to be carried forward. So
1:17:21
Speaker 1: very much appreciate what you personally are doing in the
1:17:23
Speaker 1: chapter as well. Well. There's lots to be done and
1:17:27
Speaker 1: uh for a very very important cause. So thank you,
1:17:31
Speaker 1: Land and hopefully next time we were talking it'll be
1:17:33
Speaker 1: about sharing or talking about some successes when it comes
1:17:36
Speaker 1: to some of these things, which which I'm sure if
1:17:37
Speaker 1: we keep on working together we can make happen. Absolutely
1:17:41
Speaker 1: I'm in high five across the phone. And with that
1:17:44
Speaker 1: we will wrap this episode up. If you'd like to
1:17:47
Speaker 1: learn more about this issue of national monuments from a
1:17:51
Speaker 1: hunter or angler perspective, I definitely would point you towards
1:17:54
Speaker 1: that document that land mentioned, and you can find that
1:17:57
Speaker 1: on the back Country Hunters and Anglers website that is
1:18:00
Speaker 1: back Country Hunters dot org. Uh. The TRCP, the Theodore
1:18:05
Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership has also been putting out some information
1:18:08
Speaker 1: on this issue. You can find info at TRCP dot
1:18:11
Speaker 1: org for that as well. Both of these organizations and
1:18:14
Speaker 1: many others, are doing good work to help protect our
1:18:17
Speaker 1: public lands and waters and wildlife. So, as I've done
1:18:20
Speaker 1: many times before, I will just kind of urge you
1:18:23
Speaker 1: and encourage you to to learn more about these things,
1:18:26
Speaker 1: to stay involved, to stand up for these places, for
1:18:29
Speaker 1: our wildlife, for our ability to hunt and fish. Um,
1:18:33
Speaker 1: we need these places, we need these protections, we need
1:18:35
Speaker 1: public lands. So let's do that together. And finally, I
1:18:39
Speaker 1: guess I will just offer a few more simple things. Um.
1:18:43
Speaker 1: Number one, if you've left a rating or review for
1:18:45
Speaker 1: the podcast, just want to give you a big big thanks.
1:18:48
Speaker 1: There are I think over twelve hundred five star reviews.
1:18:51
Speaker 1: Now that's incredible. We appreciate that. Also, want to give
1:18:56
Speaker 1: a big thank you to our partners who helped keep
1:18:59
Speaker 1: this podcast as possible. So big thanks to Matthew's archery
1:19:04
Speaker 1: sit gear May Haven Optics, the white Tail Institute of
1:19:07
Speaker 1: North America, Trophy Ridge, Yettie coolers and hunt ra maps
1:19:12
Speaker 1: and of course, and maybe most importantly, we couldn't do
1:19:16
Speaker 1: any of this without you, guys, the listeners, so thank
1:19:19
Speaker 1: you so much. I hope you're still hitting those tree stands,
1:19:22
Speaker 1: getting in the woods, enjoying some late season hunts, and
1:19:25
Speaker 1: if you are, I wish you luck. Until next time,
1:19:28
Speaker 1: Stay Wired to Hunt,