Latest / Drawn of History / Mike Rowe _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _577(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Mike Rowe _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _577(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I have some tour dates to tell you about. I'll
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: be in Chicago, Illinois on April 24th. Miami, Florida on
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: May 10th. Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: St.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Paul, Minnesota on June 20th. Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd. Winnipeg and Calgary
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in the Canada. All tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. Please
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: go through those links so you get accurate pricing. And
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your support for the return of the rat tour.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is a host. You know him from Dirty Jobs.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: He's also an author and a podcaster. He has a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: new show coming out in May called People You Should Know,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: where he travels the country interviewing regular people who are
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: making a difference in the world around them. It's always
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a good time. chatting with the one and only Mr.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Mike Rose.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, he's bringing him a coffee.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, good. He got me a cup of coffee. That's
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: how they used to do it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Like, you really got to work for it. You want
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to be in the labor force. You got to heat
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it up.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, see? Is there cream in there?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: See, this is the difference between today. Look, this is
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the difference between my parents and... Us today. This is
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: how you got a cup of coffee like my grandparents.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, man.
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  Speaker 1: They would serve it like this.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And you figure it out.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: There you go. Good luck.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Figure it out, man.
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  Speaker 2: You're on your own.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And here we are.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Well, remember, the last time I was at your place,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I had rolled out of the hotel, come to your house.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I wasn't quite sure who you were or where I
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: was or anything. And all I knew was I needed
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: coffee and you ordered some for me. And they brought
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: it in. And it was so freaking hot. I didn't
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: make a big deal about it. but we were like
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: two minutes into our conversation. I thought, damn it, man.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I just, I literally cleaved my tongue to the roof
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: of my mouth there for a second. I wonder if
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I can still be interesting. And then I just powered
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: through and decided, you know what? It's whatever. It's just pain.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks for doing that, man. Oh, that's the worst, bro.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: When you drink something so hot, but you want to
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: be a man. That's what I think. Our grandfathers, no
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: wonder they couldn't express their feelings. They couldn't talk. You
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: know how hot the coffee was then?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: It was magma. Yeah. And how jacked up their teeth were.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: They were in constant pain.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: People died of their teeth back then. All the time.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We lost at least a grandfather to teeth infection
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: or to gum infection. At least. But yeah, people died.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: It was crazy.
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  Speaker 2: It's bananas.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I....
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I bit my lip the other day. And this is
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a funny thing, for me anyway, but the third, like
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the first time you do it, it's annoying and it
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: really takes you out of your meal, takes you out
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: of your conversation. And part of the reason is, because
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: you know it's gonna happen again. And then when you
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: do it again, it's a different kind of rage, right?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Because it's tinged with the inevitability, like it's gonna happen.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And then when you bite it the third time, it's
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: just white hot pain, And like an anger at the universe.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: And it's irrational. Yeah. But it's just one of those things.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And maybe four or five times you're going to bite it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: And it's going to be like that for the next
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: 24 hours until your body finally sends some sort of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: message and the swelling starts to go down. But it's
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a horrible moment in your day when you start that crucible.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: It's an oral Vietnam, man. There's nothing like that. Going
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: down that journey, the D-Day of Every bite you take
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: in one of them is going to step on that
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  Speaker 1: hidden IED of a previously bitten inner lip. An oral Vietnam.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Can we get him some coffee? It's going to happen again.
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  Speaker 1: Some cream. They just bring you more.
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  Speaker 2: Coffee, more hot coffee?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe I should. I used to drink black all the time,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: and then I went two creams and one cream. And
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  Speaker 2: you know what I find? It upsets people when you
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: change your coffee order. Like the people around you in
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: your circle. Like, I always thought you were a black
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  Speaker 2: coffee guy. Oh, yeah. And now what's with the cream?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Or what's with the almond milk? You don't want to
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: do that. That sends a whole different message. Yeah, definitely.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: In some communities, that is not good.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Well, there's no.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's not good.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: There's no nipples. On the almond.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And if you're looking for them, you are a Randy character.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you can't. I mean, curiosity would require some kind
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: of cursory inspection from this milk delivery system with no nipples. Oh,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: look at you, Zach. That's amazing. Thank you very much.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Where did you get those out of? Did you go
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: into the cow? I saw the one we had was expired.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Did you really? Oh, my God. You went to the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: corner to get me some of these little poisonous pods.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: These are good. There's a whole.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Why is everything?
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: They have melatonin in them now. I'm like, should coffee
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: creamer have melatonin in it?
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Isn't that the stuff that makes you tired?
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's like, what's going on?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: That is a mixed message.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Here's some caffeine with a little sedative for you. We'll
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: just let your body sort it out.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's where we are.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Next thing you know, you're biting through your lip. Curse
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: in the universe. Oral Vietnam. Dying to your teeth.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Oh dude.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Did you have any idea how much feedback I got?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know if this happens to you.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Like you see yourself maybe on YouTube and it's clearly you, right?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: This is a thing. You're like, you don't dispute it.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: It's you. You did whatever it is, whatever conversation you're having. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But you don't have any real recollection of the conversation.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: You're just seeing yourself, right? Like this happened to me
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a lot years ago when, uh, people started uploading these, uh,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: these incidents on QVC, like in the middle of the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: night where I'd been fired for various inappropriate interactions with
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  Speaker 2: the product.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, you were on QVC?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. But when I look at those old clips, and
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I can't deny that it's me, but I have absolutely
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: no idea what's going to happen or what I'm going
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: to say next. It's very unusual. It's like biting your lip.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Because nothing you do about it. You just sit there
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: and you watch yourself doing things you don't remember doing.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And you just hope to God you don't blow it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you got involved in this.
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  Speaker 2: Seriously involved.
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  Speaker 1: This is the dark arts. Selling jewelry to people that
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: are high on sleeping pills. Yeah.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're lonely hearts. They're, you know, that look
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  Speaker 2: at my nails, so nicely manicured and all that. That
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  Speaker 2: was 1989. That's you selling those? Or 90.
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  Speaker 3: 90.
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  Speaker 1: Were you going to a Poison concert? What were you
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  Speaker 1: even wearing those for?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, as long as you're going to
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: do it. Find the cat sack. That's when I knew
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: my life had taken a weird turn. This was 1990.
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  Speaker 2: It was my first job in TV.
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  Speaker 1: Was it really?
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  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't even know that.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. Look at you.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Look at that hair.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Right? Where were you from? Transylvania?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So this is a lava lamp, right? And I'm... I
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: have no idea how to behave. I just want to
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: know if it's really hot. Well, guess what, dude? It's hot, man.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Put two creamers in it.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: That lava. I mean, obviously, it's not really lava. It's magma.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Nuh-uh. No. That's not lava?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I open this thing up on the air just because
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: it's 3 in the morning, right? And you're just trying
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to make sense out of whatever they bring you next.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It could be the Amcor negative ion generator. It could
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: be the health team infrared pain reliever. It could be
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a lava lamp.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It could be a child's diaper that sorts coins.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: They brought me a cat sack, K-A-T-S-A-K. It's a cat sack.
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  Speaker 2: I thought it was a joke. It's not. It's like
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: a grocery bag lined with Mylar, right? And your cat
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: crawls in it. It makes a crinkling sound, and cats
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  Speaker 2: love it.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's nice.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So this is the kind of thing, man. I would
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: sit there for three hours– in the middle of the night, uh,
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  Speaker 2: trying to, there's no, there was no training program or anything.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: You know, they, they would just bring you these things
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: that look, look like you'd get them out of that
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: machine on the carnival midway with the claw. You know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: it was, it was really just stuff that had failed
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: to sell in prime time. Uh, and so if you're new, uh,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: There's no training program. They just put you on in
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night and they just bring you
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: this stuff, man. One thing after the next and you
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: talk for eight minutes. I love that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: We should bring that back. What if we brought something
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: like that back?
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean QVC is still on. It's just that
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: back in those days, no one really knew about it.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: They didn't have any big vendors or anything. Today, they
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: do $ 6, $ 7 billion a year. Do they really? It's giant.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It's huge. Home shopping is huge.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I wonder if we should– what if we did a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: fun one on like YouTube and we sold American– products
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that were American-made, Mike?
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I'm in. I'm in. Look, there are no new ideas.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Like I joked the last time I was at your
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: pad in Nashville. It was like I really felt like
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you had tapped into like a Wayne's World meets Charlie Rose, right?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And so all those old ideas will come back. Telethons
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: will come back.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love that.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Home shopping never really went away. Telethons were great, though.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You'd call up and you'd be like, who's crippled? Sometimes
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: my stepdad would get drunk or whatever. Right.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And he'd want to impress my mom, so he'd ring
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: up one of those telethons that were on. He'd be like, hey,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: this is Randy.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Who's crippled over there?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And they'd tell you who's crippled or whatever. And he'd
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: be like, put.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: $ 30 on that one. Well, do you remember Jerry Lewis
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: doing the telethons?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yep. Jerry's kids.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Jerry's kids. He was real. I mean, he raised like
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. He did a lot of good
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: in that world. But you got in 36 hours into
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a telethon, right? You've been up 36 hours.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're on QVC then.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And I did. There were times on QVC where it
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: snowed and like the next ghost couldn't come in. So
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: when you've been up, For that long. And you're on
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: live TV and they bring you like a collectible doll.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And you're hallucinating. And you don't even understand that people
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: collect dolls, but they do, right? They do. And so
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you're just sitting there like this doll would be next
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: to me and her name would be Rachel and she'd
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: be dressed up like a tramp from Little Women or something. Oh, yeah.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And you just give them stories, you know?
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Pride and prejudice.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I loved him as he loved me.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So Emily Bronte. Or was it Charlotte?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think they've dated for a while.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure who it was. They may have. One
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: of them took the other one's name.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Well, this is like what you just did is exactly
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: what I would do every night. It was free associating
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: over whatever they brought. I wasn't a very good salesman,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: but I was good at like starting sentences with no
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: clear end and just keep going.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So the next thing you know, you're given these dolls,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: like very elaborate backstories, you know, like, you know, she's
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a doll that gives you just a hint of possibility.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: She says no, but there's yes, yes in those eyes.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: And then the camera guy pushes in close. Really close.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm sitting here like this looking at a monitor,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: looking at myself, looking at the doll, and a million
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: people are watching.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: She's new in town.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: She's new in town. And she's keen to make some friends.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And there's really no telling how far she'll go or
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: how far you'll let her. Because it's really up to you, caller.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: For three easy payments of $ 29. 95, young Rachel here will
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: be on her way to you. And whatever you do
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: with her and the privacy of your own curio is
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: between you and your lord. I'm just here to tell
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you that she's on sale and she looks like a sport.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: All righty. What's next?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Next up, Mike, we actually have the Princess Diana Beanie
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Babies that are in town.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's fantastic, Theo.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: They're just passing through, actually. Mike, there's not many of them.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, aren't we all just passing through, Theo?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: When you really think about it, this whole notion of
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: permanence as it relates to porcelain dolls, I think that's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: something we can dive into to kill three, four, maybe
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: five minutes.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I believe that. And I'll tell you that. I'll
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: tell you this. that these Beanie Babies are stuffed with,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: what's the, it's not cotton, what is it?
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: It's styrofoam, Theo.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, styrofoam.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: They're stuffed with styrofoam. And I'll tell you, it was
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: a bold move on a manufacturing level.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Or Russian cotton, as they call it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: That's right, because when you get it wet, it swells
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: up a little bit, like those nesting dolls in reverse.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: When you see that little Princess Di Beanie Baby swell
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: up like a tick, your heart's going to beat with anticipation,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and wonder about what could possibly happen next.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Yep, and we also, she comes, if you buy her now,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: she comes with these two CIA dolls. We're not saying anything.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: You say potato, I say massage.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I say cavity search, because with the Beanie Baby, it's
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: really your property. That's the beauty, especially the Princess Di
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Beanie Babies, because with a touch of royalty, well, they're
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: dressed in purple, too, the color of kings, Theo. Oh,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: say it, Mike.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: That's worth knowing. And if you order right now within
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the next 44 seconds, both of these CIA Beanie Babies
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: will be stuffed with pure polyester or gay cotton, as
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: they call it in some circles.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: That's right. And for this week, just to mix things
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: up a little bit, each one of these Beanie Babies,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: every one out of 100 will be stuffed with cocaine. Oh, wow.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So it's really going to shake things up because who
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: knows who's going to get it and who knows what's
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: going to happen next.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, I wouldn't put it in a baby's crib unless
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you want him to walk. This week. That's what I'd say.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I just bit my lip.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put two creamers inside of myself. Mike,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: we have you here. Thank you, dude. I didn't know
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you were in those trenches. Because you know what I've
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: thought about? It would be neat to do something if
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: we did it with products, only products that are American made, right?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I just got this shirt and a jacket from this company,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: American Giant, right?
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Seriously?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Bring in that jacket if you can.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I know those guys.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Bathrop or what's it?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Byard Winthrop. Byard Winthrop, yeah. Is the CEO of American–
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: are you messing with like.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I swear to God, dude.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Bring it in.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: It's a great one out there.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you a true story about this guy, Byard Winthrop.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Sixteen years ago, he sent me a sweatshirt in the
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: mail because he saw me on Dirty Jobs getting– The
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: absolute crap knocked out of me, and he saw my
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: clothes being destroyed right and left. He goes, this is
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: an indestructible sweatshirt. It's 100% made in the USA, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Slate Magazine had just written a story called The World's
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Greatest Hoodie. So it wasn't cheap, but it was made
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: from cotton that was literally picked, like outside of Gaffney
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: maybe or Middlesex, South Carolina, where their factories were. He
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: showed me pictures of the employees who stitched it, the yarn, everything.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And I still have it. Wow. I wore that thing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It was completely in it. There it is, Slate Magazine.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: This is the greatest hoodie ever. This is December 2012.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: So he sent me this sweatshirt, and I wore it,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and I gave him some love on Dirty Jobs because
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: it really is amazing. It's the kind of sweatshirt. Do
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you remember the Champion sweatshirts with the reverse weave? There
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: were like the varsity sweatshirts, the Harvard crew guys. It's
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the kind of sweatshirt your girlfriend steals. It's those. So anyway,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I never knew what happened to the guy, but he
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: reached out a couple years ago, and American Giant is
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: still doing it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're making clothes in America, right? Because this is– yeah,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: how did I come across this? Oh, a friend of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: mine showed this to me. They sent me a clip
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: about a guy was trying to make a product in America. Yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And he couldn't do it. I'll put it on for
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a few minutes. This is my AG right here, daddy.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: That's great, man. Yep, they're doing it. They're actually doing it.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: People don't understand how jacked up this is. Back in 1988,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: 80% of all of the clothing we wore was made
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: in America. And today it's 2%. It's bananas.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: The problem that those guys have is there's a labor
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: challenge because what's happening is they're competing obviously with China
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and with Vietnam and with a lot of other places
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and those places, they don't have the same regulations, they
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: don't have the same requirements, they don't have the same
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: conditions and factories, all that stuff. Right, you don't have
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to be fully awake to work. You don't even have
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to really be human. I'm not sure what the laws are.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I just know that when the dust settles, it's a
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: hell of a lot harder to do it here. So
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: they do it. They're trying to do it. They do
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: it elsewhere. They do it in South Carolina.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: They do it in South Carolina, American Giant.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: American Giant does.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But it's crazy to think that when you think about,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: this is a misconception that I started to realize that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I had, that when I traveled around the country, because
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: we've probably, and I just said this recently, but we've
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Touring comedy, we've probably done the top 200 cities size-wise, right?
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Like some comedians, they go to 50 cities, right? Sure.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: And they go to the– we went as many places
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: as you could go. And we still have more to go.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: But I mean like anywhere from like Lubbock to La Crosse.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean just– to Fargo. I mean we're going
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to medium-sized cities. And you always think like, oh, well,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: there's factories everywhere that make things and stuff like that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: There's not.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: No.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: There's not. And you think, oh, well, I'm sure there's always,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: when you're flying on an airplane, you're like, oh, I'm
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: sure we're passing thousands and hundreds of thousands of factories
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: that are making products and sweatshirts. We're not.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: No, it used to be, I mean, the Rust Belt
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: in particular, like that part of the Mid-Atlantic, those were
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: factory towns.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: The Tetanus Belt too, they called it.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: The Tetanus. Well, I mean, it was, you know, there's
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: so many rivers up there. And so the mills were
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: by the rivers. And so the factories were near the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: mills and the cotton was spun there. But this guy Bayard,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: he's actually become a friend of mine and he's on
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: a mission. And like flannel, like hand dyed yarn in
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: flannel was something like those old thick flannel shirts that
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: we grew up with. You can't get them anymore. So
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: American Giants started making those. They started making these hoodies.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And the more I read about him, the more I
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: liked him. So he's become like he's in my world
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: now because I try it on my podcast. I'm not
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: there yet. But I'm really trying to make sure all
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: the sponsors have an American-made story. Just because, why not? See,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: the thing is, man, if Trump succeeds at the reshoring
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: effort- With the tariffs. Yeah, that's part of it. But
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: if in general, he gets manufacturing reinvigorated in this country,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: then there's going to be a challenge that a lot
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: of people aren't talking about, which is labor. So there's–
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: in January, there were 482,000 open positions in manufacturing in
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: this country, right? 480,000 open positions. If he gets his
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: way and this all gets reinvigorated, you're talking about two
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: or three million new jobs. But there's no workforce sitting
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: there going, this is what I want to do.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Or prepare to do it.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: They're not– so there's a skills gap for sure.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: But there's also a will gap.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Right. Okay, so let's talk about a couple of these things, Mike.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So first let's talk about, I'm gonna take this off
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: because it is pretty warm in here, but I will
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: say this, this feels great. You will sweat your balls
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: off in that thing. They made a t-shirt, oh dude,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you will never, this thing will keep your coffee warm
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: for seven eons, dude.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: It gets, it's, I mean, not to turn it into
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: a commercial, but I swear, it's weird how soft it'll get.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It gets softer and it gets thicker. It'll smell a
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: little funky. Oh God, it's gonna turn into a wife.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Just bit my lip again.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Hey.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: God damn it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: But no, this is really awesome, Mike. And I know
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you have a new show that's coming out on your
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: YouTube on May 2nd where you went and met with
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of just workers on the ground, right?
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: We do a lot of that. But this thing is
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: kind of important.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: The terror stuff?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. So let's start there. So Trump has put in
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of– he started this kind of terror war, right?
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. you hear people say it's good.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: You hear people say that it's bad from my perspective,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: after traveling on the country, I don't know how else
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: you're going to get jobs back here because it just,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of towns that are boarded up. There's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of small cities that are boarded up. I mean,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: a whole city, you walk through the city of Jackson,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Mississippi during the day, it looks like a movie set.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It's very clean. It's beautiful, but there's nothing. And that's
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: one of 40 probably cities that we've seen that are
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like that. Um, So I'm just thinking what's going to
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: come and save these cities if something needs to. And
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: so then you start to see Trump put these tariffs
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: on and then you start to get the idea, well,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it's to bring jobs back. So we have jobs here.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: So it keeps cities busy.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so it's two different conversations, I think.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: And obviously I'm not an economist. In fact, I don't
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: know an economist who thinks tariffs are a good idea.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I really don't.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know an economist.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I know a couple. But the ones I'm most interested
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: in are like slightly right of center where they don't
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: agree either, right? So like everybody is either having a
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: conversation about whether or not it's a good idea economically.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I call that like a tier two conversation. You're having
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: a tier one conversation. You're saying, well, wait a minute.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: What if there's something in the country that's actually more
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: important than the economy long term? Right. What could that be?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: The economy of the human spirit, I think.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: It could be that. And I get all kinds of
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: grief for this, but I think it's a fair analogy.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I think about, well, hell, I think about slavery in 1870, right?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And I think about the conversation that was going on
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: in the country. And a big part of it was, wait,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: if we get rid of this, do you have any
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: idea what it's going to do to the economy? Not
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: just for the South. which would collapse, but for the North.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Who was buying all the products. Who was all dressed
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: in cotton.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And of course, there's the triangle trade, molasses, rum, slaves, right?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: This is an eternal wheel that had been going on
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: for time immemorial.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dark rum, where do you think that came from?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? You put a couple, you know?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I think I know what you're saying.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying you mix a few items and you
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: got some, that's the best rum they got.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: It's good rum. But if you fundamentally were to make
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: the slavery decision based on nothing but whether or not
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: it was good or bad for the economy, well, we'd
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: still have slavery. So we got to a point where
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: people said, wait, wait, wait, this can't keep going.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: This isn't human.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: That's right. And so it was bad. The economy crapped
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the bed. We fought a war. A lot of people died.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And I don't mean to sound glib when I say it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the real– ramifications are going to be.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I don't have a crystal ball, but I do think
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: that the reason people are talking past each other with
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the tariffs is because some people are saying, look, it's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: a tax period. It's not good for global trade, which
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: is true. But if there's this other, if you're trying
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: to transform Jackson, Mississippi, then you at least have to
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: elevate the conversation to these, this other set of consequences
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: that might happen if you shake the whole thing up. Now,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I again, I put a big like asterisk on that, i.e.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: do believe that there are unintended consequences and intended consequences.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And the consequences of messing with the tariffs are probably both.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: But do you feel like, do you think Trump, his
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: intentions are good?
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Here's what I think. When I started my little foundation,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: which by the way, We're still doing it. We've got
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: $ 3 million we're giving away this month in these work
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: ethic scholarships. So we're training people for skilled jobs. We're
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: training people for manufacturing jobs. We've been doing it for years. Oh,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: that's me in a cap and gown sitting there without
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: any pants on as if to indicate optically that even
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: though I have my degree, I'm not actually trained for
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: any of the opportunities that currently exist.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, you look like you just graduated from San Francisco.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I'll say that, dude. Nice legs.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: It was an experimental phase. That's okay.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: My dad used to wear those shoes, dude.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Hey, you can see my shark bite there on my
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: left knee. There you go. Looking at that hurt.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of sharks over there in San Fran,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: those bays, buddy, you know.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: So Trump's intentions, right? I don't know. I don't know
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: the man. I'm rooting for him. But here's what happened
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to me. When I started that foundation.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: You started this.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Because your foundation gives out.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Work ethic scholarships.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Work ethic scholarships. And people can apply on the website.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: If you click on scholarship right there up at the top. Yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: It'll take you to a. Well, that's me and a
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: bunch of people who got the. There you go.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Can we donate to that?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: You can donate to it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Sure. Awesome, man. Yeah.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: In fact, we just auctioned off– these guys up in
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Ohio made me a truck. They made a MicroWorks work truck.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Rogan's head exploded when he saw this. This is a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: 1964 power wagon and they built it from scratch. It
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: was beautiful. And they took it to the Barrett-Jackson auction
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and we got one and a half million bucks for it.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: No way. So that all went to scholarships. I remember
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: last time I was selling it. We're going to donate
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: way less than that. I was auctioning. off all kinds
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: of crap from dirty jobs to raise money. We've given
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: away about $ 12 million in these things.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, man.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: But I'm not saying it because I'm awesome.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: No, you're just saying this is a way that you're
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: trying to be a part of the things that you've
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: gone through and seen. You want to put guys back
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: in the workforce and make them be prepared. Is that right?
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: That is right. And the answer to your question regarding
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Trump actually starts with Obama because the year we started
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: this in 2008, I don't know if you remember it,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: but he had a thing called the Highway Infrastructure Act.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: And it was big news headlines everywhere. He was going
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to create 3 million shovel ready jobs. Right. And I
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: was rooting for him and then dirty jobs at the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: time was at its absolute peak. And what was weird
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: as the country was going into a recession was everybody
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I was talking to on dirty jobs, there are 12
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: million unemployed people, but they all had like help wanted
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: signs out. They were really struggling the higher. And their
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: basic bitch was, we just can't find people who are
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: excited to pick up a shovel. We can't find people
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: who want to do the work that we have. So
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I reached out in an open letter to the president
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in 2009 and just said, look, man, I am rooting
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: for you. I think 3 million shovel-ready jobs sounds great.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: But part of making that succeed has to include a
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: campaign that to help make shovel-ready jobs cool because right
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: now people aren't buying it. There it is.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: Look at that, man.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: You guys are unbelievable. That's an open letter to the president.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: March 11, 2009. I am awed by the task at
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: hand and compelled to tell you about MicroWorks, a public
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: awareness campaign designed to reinvigorate the trades. Yeah, we need–
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: there needs to be– you're saying.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I'm saying it because it's about to happen again.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump is– going down a road, and if he succeeds,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: he's going to create millions of manufacturing jobs in a
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: country that currently has nearly 500,000 manufacturing jobs open because
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the people who run those factories can't find people who
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: want to do the work. So it's not enough to
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: create the jobs. And look, a lot of your listeners
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: are probably thinking, well, make the pay better. Make it
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: more make it more interesting, make it more palatable, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: then we can have that conversation for sure. But the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: bigger issue still is there's no enthusiasm for the work.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: We took shop class out of high school. We robbed
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: kids of the opportunity to even see what that kind
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: of work even looks like. Meanwhile, we told a whole
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: generation of kids they were screwed if they didn't get
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: a four-year degree, right? And so people say, Mike, how
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: did college get so expensive? I know you know this,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: but Nothing has gotten more expensive in the last 40
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: years than a four-year degree. Not real estate, not healthcare,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: not energy, nothing, right? And so we keep telling kids
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: they're screwed if they don't go in this direction. We
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: free up endless money to loan them. So now you
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: got $ 1. 7 trillion in student debt on the books. You've
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: got 7.6 million open jobs right now, most of which
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: don't require a four-year degree. And here's the other screwed
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: up part. You got 6.8 million able-bodied men who are
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: not only not looking for work, I mean, they're out
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of the workforce and not looking. So all of that together,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: we've never seen that before in peacetime anyway. So something
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: beyond the tariffs, something beyond policy is going to have
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: to happen to make 22-year-olds go, yeah, man, I would
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: consider doing that.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: What happens when your health becomes the punchline from seed
• 30:27
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• 30:31
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• 30:36
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• 31:35
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• 31:38
  Speaker 1: that I take it. Armra Colostrum. Well, I've got some
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: thoughts on that. So one is, do you think that
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the college, the, one of the reasons it went up
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: was because most of that money was loans. And then
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: that was almost a scam, not a scam, but a
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: scheme to.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Scams good.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Wow. Look, it's a product, man. You're what, what you're selling.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: But how does that money? So just so I know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: so I'm clear. So that money works because then, um,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: The college loans it to you. They put interest on it,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and then you have to pay it back.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Well, the college doesn't loan it. Sometimes you might get
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: a scholarship from the college. That's not a loan. But
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: financial aid packages can involve like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: which sounds like your awesome aunt and uncle somewhere.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it also sounds like you borrowed some money from
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: a guy in Memphis.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, what it is is some faceless bureaucrat in
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: a tall, soulless building in Kansas City that's just crunching
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: the numbers, right?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: So the more people that they can get to go
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to college, the more like– the more interest that they
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: can get off of these big loans, right?
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So sure, the people loaning the money are getting interest
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: on the loans. But it's the colleges themselves that– like
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: right now, like literally as we speak, there's a screaming headline.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Trump just put a hold on $ 2 billion of federal
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: money that was going to go straight to Harvard. That's right. Now,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: why would he do that? You know, people are screaming,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: oh my God, it's something about free speech. And, you know, $ 2. 2
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: billion in grants to Harvard has been paused due to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: activism on campus. Where in the headline does it tell
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: you that Harvard has a $ 52 billion endowment? Nowhere. But
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: they do. They've got over $ 50 billion in an endowment.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that might not even have an effect.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, it's, Colleges, especially the top-tier colleges,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: have an awful lot of money, and they have a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: steady stream of customers because in our society, we have
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: completely bought into the notion that what you're purchasing in
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: these schools is an education, which you're actually purchasing as
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: a credential.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Whether or not you're educated or not, your experience may vary. Look, dude,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at my iPhone right here. If you've got
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: an internet connection— Well, you have access to 98% of
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: all the known information in the world.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: How you process it and how you utilize it, that's
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: up to you.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: That's you. So it's not fair to say that you
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: can get a liberal arts degree on your iPhone, but
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you can. It's not fair to really compare lying in
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: your bed like I did two weeks ago watching a
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: free lecture at MIT and saying it would be the
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: same experience if I were there in the classroom. But
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: it's close enough to say, well, wait a minute. If
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: the first one cost me $ 0. 00 and the second one
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: is going to keep me in debt for over 20 years,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: what am I doing? So I don't know, man. I
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: feel badly about painting with too broad a brush. My
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: liberal arts degree served me really well. I graduated four
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: years after you were born, I'm guessing. 1984 I graduated.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Beautiful year.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: All right. It was a great year. I went to
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: two years in a community college.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: A lot of hot chicks then, too, huh?
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a prospect. God.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You know those collectible dolls on QVC? Mm-hmm. It was very,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: very similar. Yeah. It was a good time to be alive.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I was also singing in the opera back then.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot that you were an
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: opera guy.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a thing I did.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Cat calling. Dude, if you hear that cat call, you stop.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: If it's just some fucking Chicano whistling at you, dude,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I'm keeping walking. But you hit a guy– if I
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: could hit a half of an Ave Maria on his
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: lunch break near an open manhole, dude, you got to stop.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Well, people pay attention, man. That's what– like in the
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: first season of Dirty Jobs, I sang– I didn't even
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: know the cameras were rolling. I was just blown away
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: by the acoustics in a sewer in San Francisco.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: So I sang– Right? Okay. I'll have the antipasta.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: But it was like the image of a dude wearing.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: A rubber suit, squatting in a sewer. covered with other
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: people's shit, singing Puccini. To your point.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Literal Puccini.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Poopcini, that's good. Yeah, people didn't know what to do
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: with that. You don't know where to, it's like a
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: lot of cognitive dissonance in your brain.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: There's a lot going on at once. And there's a
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: parallel here. It's kind of what's going on right now.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: That's it. People, like if you sing opera, you shouldn't
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: be in a sewer. If you're in a sewer, you
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: should be getting paid crap wages. But what do you
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: do– what do you say about a guy in a
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: sewer who's a multimillionaire, right? Like what do you mean
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: he owns his own septic tank business? What do you
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: mean he worked his way up to become a successful
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: entrepreneur without a college degree? How is such a thing possible?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Every day, Theo, we've got 2,200 people have gone through
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: micro works. I'd say 30% of them are welders. I'd
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: say half of them– are making mid-six figures. Nobody believes it.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I spend most of my time now in this space
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: sitting down with people who are 25 years old and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: looking at a camera and saying, hey, I get it.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Don't take it from the opera singing rich dude covered
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: with other people's crap, okay? I get it. I'm not persuasive.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: But listen to her. Listen to him. And so that's
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: how the needle starts to move, and that's part of
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: what has to happen.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that if the tariffs work, right, part
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: of that is going to have to be that we're
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: going to need people who can do the jobs, do
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the manufacturing jobs here. We're going to need those skilled
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: labor workers, right?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. So– and we don't have all those right now.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: We need them. We don't have them. How do you–
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: so we almost need like a– remember that Uncle Sam poster,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: like I want you. Like we need that PR campaign
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to get people hype because– Because, yeah, you just need
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: that thing that's going to get people hype a little bit.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: It's not just PR. It's ethos, too, you think? What
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: is ethos?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Bring it up.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bring up ethos. And tell us. And all these
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Greek words, you know, the Aristotelian definition of a tragedy,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: anagnoresis and peripatia, a characteristic of spirit, a culture, era,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: or community is manifested in its beliefs and aspirations. That's it.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: A challenge to the ethos of the 1960s.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: So can I have an ethos on myself, kind of
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: like my own spirit?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So if it's an individual, it's a worldview.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I think an even better way to think about it
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: is a code.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Do you have a code? If you do, what is it?
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Like Dexter kind of, but my own thing? Like a code? Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Like, look, man, this will sound really outdated and hokey.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Integrity, you mean?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I do mean integrity. I mean when I was a kid,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: like the first time I had to raise my hand– well,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: the first time I had to take a pledge, it
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: was the Pledge to the Flag. I didn't really know
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: what it meant. I was too young. I just memorized it, right?
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: But later in the Boy Scouts, I had a scoutmaster
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: who was a retired army colonel. He was a hard
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: ass and he took this really seriously. So you like
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: raise your hand and pledge. You take the scout oath. Now,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I'm only like 12 years old at the time. But
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking– This feels like there were candles lit
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: in a darkened room and it was serious. It was
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: as serious as could be. It's easy to look back
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: and laugh and poke fun.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: No, we did the same thing.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: It mattered, man. On my honor, I will do my
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: best to do my duty to God and my country. Like, wait,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: that's just the first sentence. Never mind whether you like
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: it or agree or disagree. Challenging kids to take an
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: oath and to make a pledge. My foundation has a
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: thing called a sweat pledge. You have to sign it
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: if you're applying for the particular pile of money that
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I've accumulated through donations. And I'm super stingy with that money.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Well, AA has a– they have a pledge in the
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: beginning that you do as a group. There's something about
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: doing something as a group that makes you feel a
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: part of a group. That's how a group works. That's
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: how tradition happens, right? You can't just have it without
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: actually participating in it. and vowing to it.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: You must assume individual responsibility, but you must do that
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: in the presence of other like-minded people.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: So my sweat pledge, which I ironically wrote after some bourbon,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: stands for skill and work ethic aren't taboo. I was
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: just looking for a way to make people make a promise.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And you can find it out here. It's now a curriculum, actually,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: in 70 schools, but it's based on the 12-step recovery process.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And- The Boy Scout law, trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and reverent combined with these really old school affirmations around
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: things like gratitude and delayed gratification and personal responsibility and
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: work ethic and aversion to debt. I actually have something
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: on the sweat pledge that says I would rather live
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: in a tent and eat beans. than pay for things
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I can't afford. Now, people call me, they're pissed, their
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: parents call, right? There's a tenant on the pledge that says,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I believe that my safety is my responsibility. I understand
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: that just because I'm in compliance doesn't mean I'm out
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: of danger. Now, I believe this because I nearly got
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: killed half a dozen times on dirty jobs. There it is,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: number six, right? So this thing makes people crazy. They
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: resist it. But this is a code really here. It's
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: my code.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: It's your code.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: And it starts right at the top, man. I believe
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I've won the greatest lottery of all time. I'm alive.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I walk the earth. I live in America. Above all things,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Now, you can disagree with that, and we can still
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: be friends. But when I get calls from parents or
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: teachers or kids saying, who are going through this application
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: process and they say, look, I'm not really comfortable signing this.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Then I say, well, then this particular pile of free
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: money might not be for you. It's okay, man. I mean,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: I work really hard and I raise a lot of
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: money and I give a lot of it away. And
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I make no apology for wanting to help people who
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: at least see the world.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: The same way you do.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Or something adjacent.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I agree. I think that makes perfect sense.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: But you can't run a business that way.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: No.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Like you can't hire people based on their worldview regarding
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: gratitude or personal responsibility, at least not in California.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not in California. You can't, but I think just,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: you know, you got to keep it off the documents,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: but secretly in your head, you can low-key have some ideas.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's something different about the Gen Z
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: workforce or do you think there's just, they haven't had
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: the same examples that previous generations had, you know?
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I think, well, look, again, painting with
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: too broad a brush sucks.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And, you know, we're not pointing at the Gen Z
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: workforce like you're bad or anything like that because, you know,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: it's so funny. It's like we had a guy on recently,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: this guy Alexander Wang, and he's not the fashion guy
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: that got murdered. He's a kind of a semi-Chinese guy,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: but he founded Scale AI. It's an AI company. And
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: he was saying that one way to look at AI
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: is that everyone will kind of level up, right? It's
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: like suddenly kind of robots or computers will do a
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: lot of the more menial tasks and you'll, everyone will
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: kind of be a manager. And it's interesting because if
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: you say that to me or your generation, our generation,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: kind of that people would be like, well, I don't
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: want to just be, I don't want to be the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: manager of five robots. And I sit in a small
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: dark room all the time and, and, you know, and
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: that's my life. And maybe I get four day work
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: week instead of five.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: But if you told my nephews that, That, hey, you
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: get to be the manager of five robots. You just
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: sit in this room and control them all day. They
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: would think that's awesome just because of how they've grown up.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: You know, like everything is so gamified. So it's kind
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: of interesting because you start to get into what the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: whole like perception of work is. of being alive even
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: is to people. Does that make any sense to you?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: It makes, look, it starts. I mean, there's a lot
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: in there. There's a lot, but what you're really saying
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: is like, what is a good job? What is a
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: bad job? What is a clean job? What is a
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: dirty job? And once you start to create some sort
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: of hierarchy, which makes sense, everybody's free to do it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: You ought to do it. But if Bayard were here,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: the American giant guy, he would tell you a story
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: about the individuals who made that sweatshirt, right? He would
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: show you the factory line. He would introduce you to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the farmers who grew the cotton. He would show you
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: step by step how his entire supply chain is insulated
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: from these tariffs. These tariffs hadn't affected him at all
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: because he doesn't rely on any of them. He's totally independent.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: So he's taking kind of a victory lap right now.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: But his big point would be you would have to
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: see the enthusiasm of among his group of workers when
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: they created a sweatshirt that became the greatest hoodie ever made.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: And you can look at that and go, it's a
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: freaking sweatshirt, dude. But it's not a sweatshirt. It's not
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: about the sweatshirt. And this might put it into even
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: better focus, just so your listeners understand how jacked up
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: things are. I got a call six months ago from
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: a company I bet you've never heard of called Blue
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Forge Alliance. Mm-mm. All right. Blue Forge Alliance.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Is it siding or no?
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: In a manner of speaking.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: We went through a siding phase. We'll come right back
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: to this idea. I remember we went through a siding
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: phase in our town once. Somebody came through with like
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: a semi-truck full of siding. It fell over and they
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: said people– had a bunch of people stealing siding. We
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: sold that on QVC. Y'all sold siding?
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: No, the same siding. We had a whole racket. They
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: would bring us the siding that was stolen from the neighborhood.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: And I would sell it in between collectible dolls. People
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in our area hadn't seen siding before. So they were
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: putting it on the sides of everything, dude. You put
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: siding on a house, siding on a floor.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, you'd have siding on the ceilings. Like, it
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: is not supposed to go up there. People had siding. Bro,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: they put siding on a damn baby while it was resting, dude.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Siding on a ceiling. It ain't supposed to go there.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: This is basic.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Crazy phase, dude.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: It was a crazy phase.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: But back to Blue Forge.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: This is crazy. Okay. This is crazier than that. Okay.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Blue Forge Alliance is in charge of the American Maritime Base,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: and there they are. Okay. The American Maritime Base is
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: in charge of delivering three nuclear-powered submarines every year to
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: the U.S. Navy. two Virginia, I think, and one Columbia class.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: These things are longer than the Washington Monument is tall.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: They are the pointy part of our national defense.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll seat about 40, won't they?
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Well, look, if things go sideways with Taiwan or China
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: and get hypersonic, I worry about our aircraft carriers. They're
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: exposed like they haven't been before.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, shit, if things go sideways with Baltimore, we'll
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: send one over there, you know?
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: So it's the subs that matter. Now, Blue Forge represents 15,000
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: individual companies, and these companies have to deliver three a
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: year for 10 years. They called me, right? And they say, look,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: we're hiring tradespeople, and we're kind of in a rush.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, what do you mean a rush? And
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: they said, well, we're desperate. And can you help us
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: find them? And I said, I don't know, man. It's
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: pretty skinny out there right now. There's a lot of competition.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: How many do you need? The guy says 140,000. Wow.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I swear to God. And you can find it on
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: the site there. They're hiring over the next nine years 140,000 welders,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: steam fitters, pipe fitters, electricians, all of the construction trades,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: plus all kind of electronics and technical stuff. Very, very
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: few of those positions require a four-year degree. 140,000 openings.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: And the guy says, Mike, we've looked everywhere and Do
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: you know where they are?
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Can you send me a few phone numbers?
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: I said, actually, honest, I said, yeah, dude, I know
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: where they are. They're in the eighth grade. That's where
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: they are. And if you want to get them, holy crap,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: they put my face on an I want you to
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: work in the trades. Who's doing that back there?
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know, dude, but what we need are robots, R-O-W-E-V-O-T-S.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Would you send me that, whoever you are, doing this
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: amazing non-authorized copywritten stuff? i'm gonna i'm gonna use that
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: i thought.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Robots was a good pun that deserved a little bit
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: more than that but it's.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Not bad you could have mike mike robots little tiny
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: versions of.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Me yeah that's a cute idea it's.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Adorable they would sell on qvc man they would kill.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: This is the smallest work it's this is the the
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: fire ant of the work community.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Let me land the plane. Okay. Here's the point. That
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: crisis that right now is impacting our submarine base. I
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: think you can draw a line between the enthusiasm of
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the workers who build one of these subs. And believe me,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: you should meet these guys. They understand they're moving the needle.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: They understand that They're the pointy part of the spear
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: with regard to national defense. It's a big deal. You
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: can compare not the work, but the feeling to the
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: satisfaction that comes from making the greatest sweatshirt in the world.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: And if you can do that, you can do it
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: for virtually every product in between. That's what I'm talking about.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: There's somehow or another, and I started talking about this
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: early on in Dirty Jobs. It just became clear that
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: in our society, we had identified work as the enemy.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: It's like the proximate cause of all our misery is
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the fact that our fricking boss is up our ass
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: and every day for eight or 10, 12 hours, I
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: got to go make little rocks out of big rocks
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and life isn't fair and damn it, something ought to
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: be done. And this whole thing, this whole thing is
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: modeled around the idea that I have to do Whatever
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: it is I have to do until I get to
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: the point where I can retire, right? So like I'm
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: retirement age now. Like the idea of retiring is so
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: insane to me. There's still work to be done. There's
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: more than ever. So look, to answer your question, I'm
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: super sympathetic to Gen Z. I want them to find
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: meaningful work. But the meaning, it's not– It's not inherent
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: in the work. It's in the dude. Right. It's in you.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: And you get to assign whatever level of meaning you
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: want to that sweatshirt or that nuclear sub or this
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: cup of coffee or this poisonous cream that your people
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: brought me that right now is either making me tired
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: or jacked up. I can't decide yet.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: In 30 seconds, you're going to start telling us all
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: your secrets. You're going to tell us where you keep
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: your favorite wood whittle. My greatest fear. Is a whittle
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: a thing at all?
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: A whittler– could be a person who whittles. A whittle
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: it could be a thing that you whittle, but a
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: whittle flunk is the actual tool in question. And you
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: can Google that. Now you won't find anything to confirm
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: any of it. I just felt like it was my
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: turn to talk again.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's very fair. I'm going to say this. You
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: know what? You're right. And I think that that used
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to be a part of kind of what you were saying,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: even in schools. Like I pledge allegiance to my country.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: This country means something to me. Like my grandfather worked
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: at this factory where they made parts. It was for FMC, right?
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: And then they made like elevator parts for elevator shafts
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But he would go to the
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: factory and it was like this thing. And then when
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: we were in elevators, we would see his little emblem
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: on the thing. He was like, Oh, grandpa made this,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you know? And that kind of stuff was huge. It was,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: it was like, even like native, like in cultures, there
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: are stories that you tell your grandkids. It's like, like,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the meaning of being human, we passed from each other.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: We pass it in like relics and in, um, artifacts
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, you keep things from people that meant,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: meant something to you. So I think to think that
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: that just because that only happens, it doesn't only happen
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: like in your family, like if your grandfather passes away
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and you keep something that meant something to him, but
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: it happens as a community too. It's like you have
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: things that mean something to you and that carry on.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: One of my, uh, Does that make any sense of
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: my rambling? I'm okay.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: No, dude, I'm telling you.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what the fuck are you talking about? Of course
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: it makes sense, dude. Yeah, it makes you feel alive, dude.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: You know? It makes you feel alive. And then, like,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you see something across town. You're like, man, I was
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: a part of that. And you get to drive by
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and tell your son, I built that house. And your
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: son's like, no way. I want to learn how to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: build something, you know?
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Why do you think people lost their shit when Obama said,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: you didn't build that? You didn't do that. We all
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: did that together. It was an insult to.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: What you're saying.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: That part of us.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that we're not all part of a team,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: a country, a concerted effort. But it does mean, like
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: if you rob an individual of that feeling, then you
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: have reduced his work to only the transactional component. It's
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: just a paycheck now. But I'm telling you, my life changed.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: It was early on in Dirty Jobs. And we weren't
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: even really filming yet. Or it was after... We shot
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: and I was working with a mason and I was
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: in his pickup truck and he was dropping me back
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: at the hotel. And as we're driving down, we were
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: in some little Midwest town and we were driving down
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: some easily forgettable street. But the architecture on either side
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: was super cool, right? And as we're driving, he was
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: like pointing up to the facade. He goes, yeah, we
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: did that one. And then around the corner, he's like, yeah,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: we did that one too. and see over here the
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: way this, that one took. And as he was talking,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: like his eyes were filling up. And he was driving
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: past his life's work and it was there on display
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: to be seen. And I was very happy for him
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: to be able to have that, but also very mindful
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: of the fact that you can see the same wonder
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: in the sewer, right? Like the architecture down there and
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: the technology. Now, except you'll never see it. And you'll
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: never see the guys who tend to it because it's
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: all out of sight and it's all out of mind.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: And that's part of the point, too. You don't– that
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: thing you described. I got a call from a– have
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: you heard of Moog, M-O-O-G? You'll let us down to
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: your neck of the woods. It's actually Boaz, Alabama.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, damn.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: OK? Little– it's not so little. Moog makes virtually nothing.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: every ball bearing in your car or your truck. They've
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: been making ball bearings for years, forever and ever. They
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: turned 100 a couple years ago. And the guy called me.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: They're part of Federal Mogul Motor Parts. And they were like,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: can you maybe just come down here and look at
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: our factory? And can we film you looking at it?
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: And can you just talk to some of our people?
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, yeah, probably. Why? And they're like, well,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: we just think it would be great if somebody were
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: paying attention to the fact that we've been doing this
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: for a hundred years and that there is no automotive
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: industry without us.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: So I did, I went and I, and I brought
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: a little crew with me and I wound up giving
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: them a 60 second love letter. You know, I know
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: a place in Boaz, Alabama where people understand, right. They
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: played that at their annual thing. And, um, and I
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: got a video of, of people watching the video I made.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Tears streaming down their face. Purpose. Pride. Code. Integrity. All
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: that stuff, man. Oh, there it is, 30 pounds ago,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: you fat bastard. But there I am, going the extra mile.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: American Pride with Mike Rowe. Some hotties in the back. Well,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Going the extra mile. Right there, American Pride with Mike Rowe.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, some people
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: think that mental therapy and mental help and getting mentally
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: regular are luxuries that only fancy people can do it. Oh,
• 57:17
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• 57:20
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• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well, you're
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: certainly not alone. Watching pornography has become so commonplace today
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: loneliness and boredom, anxiety, and depression. Shame and stigma prevent
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  Speaker 1: and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his
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  Speaker 1: life to empowering men to do the same. Steve is
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  Speaker 1: an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine.
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• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about like the workforce a little bit. Then
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: let's talk about some issues that they face for a
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: few minutes. Then I want to talk about your new show.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Last time we spoke, we talked about minimum wage, right?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Last time we spoke, I said there was no justice
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: if you didn't put spunk minions on a hat. I
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: told you a story of artificial insemination. You coined that term.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: At least I'd never heard it before. The coffee came
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: out of my nose and I said, for God's sakes, man, please.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Hot coffee came out of your nose. It was still hot.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Hot coffee cooled down with some of this, you know, poison.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I remember last time. It was that conversation. I'm not
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: blowing sunshine, dude. I got more people, more of the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: people that my foundation tries to reach, reached out to me. Really? Yep.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: To say, I heard you on Theo Vaughn and I
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: would like to apply for a scholarship. What do I do? Wow.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I mean- That's awesome. No, you need to understand. Well,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you understand, but it was, I do this
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: all the time. Hundreds of people, hundreds of people. Because
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: the problem is, man, I I preach to the choir
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: a lot. You know, I talk to people who already,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I, your, your audience is the future of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: this country. A big chunk of them are anyway. I
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: don't know about the others.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I do believe that one thing I think I
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: have in common with a lot of my audience is
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: that the way that we feel about stuff, right. We
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: might have different views on things, but I think our
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: feelings are a lot the same. And we talk a
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: lot about like purpose on here. Like, um, we had
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: a guy named John Verveke come on and talk about purpose.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: We had, um, Richard Reeves, it's really great. He talks
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: about how men aren't leaders in their communities anymore. You know,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: they're not doing boy scout troops. They're not teaching in
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: classes anymore. So we're losing this male to male connection
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: piece that is part of what keeps our desire to
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: be like, um, performing humans, human males, you know, like, um,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: so we talk about this kind of stuff a lot. Uh,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and maybe there's a way we can figure out something
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: to do where we could You know, where I can–
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: we would love to donate and then just continue to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: help send people your direction too.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Well, look, man, I'll never say no to a couple bucks,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: but I don't need it. What I need is what
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: you're doing, right? I mean what I need is for
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: the people listening to– like if they're serious about what
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: you just framed, the book to read is called Men
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Without Work. It's by a guy called Nick Eberstadt. He
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: is a real economist and I know him. And he
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: wrote this thing years ago but republished it during– the lockdowns.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: And that's where the real truth of this is, man.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: That's the real story, Theo. At the time he republished this,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: there were 7.2 million able-bodied men, not only not working,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: but not looking. Now the question is, well, what the
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: hell are they doing? The research goes deep and wide,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: and it's horrifying. By and large, the majority of them
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: are spending 2,000 hours a year on their screens. They're scrolling,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: they're looking, they're inward, right? And what that means is
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: they're not in the JCs or the Kiwanis Club or
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: the Boy Scouts or the Lions Club or the YMCA, right?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: They're not in their local church. They're not volunteering in
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: their community. They're not doing anything at all except living
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: some version of what, what was it, Thoreau? Lives of
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: quiet desperation. And that's, And I want to tell you
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: one other thing, too, that really blew me away. I
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: knew of you. I didn't know you. And it's cool
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: that you texted me and stayed in touch over the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: last two years since we talked. Oh, thanks, man. No, no.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Most people don't do that.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't. And I had so much fun talking
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: to you that I took a deeper dive. And one night,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: I just was scrolling through. And I watched you. sit
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: here or maybe you're in Nashville, I don't know. But
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: somebody called in and they told you a story. And
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: it was a common story, but it was a sad story.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: And it was a combination of addiction and struggling with
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: that and a kind of hopelessness and this kind of
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: desperation that my friend Nick writes about. And what you did,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: you did two things that were really interesting to me.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: The first thing is you sat and didn't say a word.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: I've never seen, I've never seen anybody do that before.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: You just sat and looked at the camera. Like you're
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: looking at me, like you actually listened. And then you
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: talk for about three minutes and about the most empathetic
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: way I had ever seen. I took that clip and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I sent it to my little network. And I said, look, man, the,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: This war is going to be fought on a lot
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: of fronts. It's a war of public opinion to your point.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: It's persuasion. It's all these things. But what this guy
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: is doing right now in this space in this way
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: is important. So, yeah, man, I don't know how big
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: you're going to get and I don't know how wide
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: your audience is going to be. But the fact that
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: it's as big as it is, yeah, you're funny. you're
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: funny as hell. Uh, I was going to crash one
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: of your shows and, and, uh, I forget what town
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: I was in, but it was like, what is it?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: The rat, the rat was back or something.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Return of the rat.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Return of the rat.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. You can't keep a rat down. You
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: could kill a rat. Bam. Another rat boy. They keep
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: popping up, but that's who we are. You're resilient. We're resilient.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: And that's, you know, I mean, Louisiana doesn't have a
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: lock on that, but I'll tell you what, man, you're,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Dirty jobs. Louisiana was very good to dirty jobs. I mean,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: from Baton Rouge to Lafayette to cut off. I did
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: my time there.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: We should have been cut off and we stayed on, dude.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: That's Louisiana. Louisiana purchased. First of all, thank you very
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: fucking much. You wouldn't even have a third of this
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: country for Louisiana.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson, 1803.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Making that deal. And we kept the receipt. I'll say that.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: It's a good one.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: And also we have nutria rats, rats that live underwater, bro.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: I know. I know.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: That is something else. But thank you, bro. That's very
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: nice of you, dude. Yeah. I think that's the one
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: thing that connects our audience is just, there's this way
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: that we feel and a lot of it is hopeful. Right.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: And so that's the side that I choose to err
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: on when it comes to the tariff stuff. It's like,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I have no clue. Like if it doesn't work, what
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: the fuck, what do we lose? We're at a, we are,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I believe that we are at a severe crossing point
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: right now where if it gets an, if another generation
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: without like a sense of purpose is It's not going
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: to matter. Nothing's going to matter anymore. There won't even
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: be enough of a person inside of our grandchildren for
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: it to matter too. Like even if you bring the gasoline,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: there's not going to be enough of a amp inside
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: of them to even spark it up. It's like, even
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I think the human spirit is a muscle, right? That's
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: how I feel about it. And I feel like it's
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: always there, but it's like the stronger that we work
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: it and the more that we encourage others to work it,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: you know? And it's scary, man. It's, I think people
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: don't realize it's scary, but then I think part of
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: all of us realize that something scary is going on.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Well, the stakes are big. Right. I mean, $ 37 trillion
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: in national, that's the national debt. Yeah. $ 37 trillion. Most people,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: like you really don't have to be an economist. You
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: don't have to, you don't need a pedigree. to understand
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: that that's getting a little wobbly. And it's not sustainable.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: So something radical has to happen. Something really unpopular is
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: going to have to happen. That's what radical is. It's
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be wildly uncomfortable.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: But what's going to be way more uncomfortable is whatever's
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: after that. It doesn't even sound human to me after that.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: I go back to the slavery thing. I mean, the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: idea of getting rid of that in... 1860, right? It
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: was so many otherwise rational people who were walking around,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: influencers of the day with columns and people giving oratories
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: and speeches. Really smart people were saying, we can't do this.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: The country will collapse. And other people were like, well,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: then let the heavens fall because that's a hill I'll
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: die on, right?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: So every now and then, something rises to a place
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: where you just can't talk about it the way you'd
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: been talking about it. And look, man, I really wonder
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: 150 years from now what our great, great, great, great
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: grandkids will be saying about us. What will be the
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: slavery of today? Will it be the fact that we
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: let our country become completely dependent on on other countries
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: who really don't like us much. I mean, it's insane. China,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I interviewed a guy, yesterday who you would love, Jan
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Jekielek he's called. He writes for the Epoch Times. He's
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: a senior editor over there. And he has been on
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: China hard for 20 years. And he believes one of
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: the greatest untold stories right now is the fact that
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: 60 to 100,000 human organs are being harvested from prisoners
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: in China every year as we speak. They're called the Fulongong,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and they were 70 to 100 million of these people
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: have been persecuted forever.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to quit ordering it.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: Dude, you have to. It is bananas. Fulongong. When you
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: look at the number of prisons in China that have
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: hospitals that built right next to them, you have to go, well,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: what's up with that? And when you talk to these people,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: and there are countless examples who are scheduling open heart surgeries,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: they're scheduling kidney replacements, right? You can't schedule those. You
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: go on a list and then you wait for somebody
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: to to become brain dead.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: And a motorcycle accident.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: That's right. Because you can't take a heart from a cadaver.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: You have to take it from a living but doomed person.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: And so cutting that line is about the rudest thing. Right?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a line you don't want to cut.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: My sister got a liver transplant and we had to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: wait and they called us over and we'd get over
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: there and be like, no, the guy's going to stay alive.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: And we're like, well, don't call us then. We just
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: drove over here.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: I can't even imagine- what that is like. But I
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: can tell you this, the organ industry in China is
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: a $ 9 billion industry and people are scheduled. They're making
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: appointments for livers. They're making appointments for hearts.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Based on knowing when the guy's going to die or
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: they're killing them.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: They're killing them, dude.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: It's not based on that. Yes, it is based on
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: knowing when they're going to die. Exactly. Because they kill them. And, and,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: you know, what they tell you is, ah, well, you know, look,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: he's on death row anyway. And so like, you know,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: They tell you a lot of things and you'll go, okay, okay.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: And so it's back to slavery. It's like, well, you
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: know what? I don't really want to look at the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: reality of organ harvesting. If my kid needs a heart,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: please tell me a happy story about how the inmate
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: is a murderer, right? And right before we kill him,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: we're going to anesthetize him and take his heart. Tell
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: me that story. It's not much different than in 1860.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: It's like, look, I need clothes, man. My kids need clothes.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Please don't show me the raping and the whipping of
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: these poor people. Please don't show me the Middle Passage
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: and what happened, the unspeakable conditions on those ships. I
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: don't want to see that. I just want my clothes. Now,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: when I'm talking 150 years from now, maybe I could
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: be talking about 150 days from now. Please don't show
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: me the abortion. I don't want to see that. Please
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: don't show me the diseased lungs in your attempt to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: get me to stop smoking. I don't want to see that.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: Please don't make me shoot the cow in the head.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: I did that on season three of Dirty Jobs. I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: slaughtered a cow and butchered it with a mobile butcher
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: just to show viewers where their food comes from and
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: what it takes to make a porterhouse, what it takes
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: to get a sirloin, the difference between all these different things.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: People's heads exploded because the truth is, man, they don't
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: want to see where their food comes from. They'd prefer
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: to think it's growing on a hamburger tree. And we
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: really don't want to know the truth about a lot
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: of this. I mean, look, we're joking about this, but
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: you really want to know what's in this little creamer?
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: You really want to know why this thing can sit
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: on the shelf for years? The answer is nothing good.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: And a baby won't eat it too. You see that
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: one where they try to give that to a baby
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: and they won't eat it.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they know, they know. So look, we're ostriches
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: and we got our head in the sand on a
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: lot of different things. And a lot of parents, to
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: bring it back to kind of where we started, they
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: don't want to see that that 200 grand they invested
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: in that college degree can't get their kid a job
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: in his chosen field. We don't want to look at
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: $ 37 trillion in debt. We don't want to look at
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: the fact that our country is making only 2% of
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: the clothing that we wear. Dude, we have in this
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: country– A third of the United States is covered with timber.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Covered with timber. Now, our forests are rotting, and they're
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: burning because we're not tending to them. Meanwhile, guess who
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: the leading importer of timber is in the world? China. Us. Oh,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: we're the leading importer of it, but we have a
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: great deal of it. We have more than anybody, and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: we're the leading importer. California has so much timber, and
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: they import 80% of it. of what they need. How
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: much energy are we sitting on? Right. Right. I just
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: look at all of it and I don't need to
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: get political. It's not political. It's about, it's some weird
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: combination of virtue signaling and, and, and head in the sand.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and also I think our media is probably a
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: lot of it has been under control of people who
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: don't want to champion America. Maybe, you know, I don't
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: know if that's true or if it's just the fads
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: and the way that things have gone. but it's just,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: it's always, it seemed like things have gotten like anti-American
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: somehow in the past, even 10 years, like the American
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: flag even became like kind of a right-wing symbol as
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: opposed to the symbol of our country. And whoever's, people
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: think that things just happen. I believe that there's strategy
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: behind a lot of stuff that's out there. I want
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: to switch to a topic of, so we, but we
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: talked before about minimum wage. I don't think people can
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: survive on minimum wages these days. I just don't think
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: that they can do it. And I, and Bernie Sanders
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: talked about how Well, if a company makes more money
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: because they start using AI or for whatever reason, that
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: shouldn't that minimum wage go up within that company for
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: the workers, you know?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I think we have to do something. If somebody makes
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: $ 8 an hour and they work for eight hours, that's $ 64.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: You can buy food for your family for that day
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: these days with that.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean, it's a... There are a lot
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: of thoughts on that.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: And I know there's not one perfect answer.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: There's not. But you can learn, I think. I mean,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: you have to understand that those jobs, minimum wage jobs,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: were never designed to be careers. They're rungs on a ladder.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: But for some people, they are careers, though. But the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: majority of them are not. Have that conversation next. But
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: the first thing to understand is you don't– like the
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: purpose of work is not to merely make money. It's
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: probably the biggest reason. You've got to put food on
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: the table. I get all of that. But you don't
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: go from a kid into a fully actualized, mature, working person.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: You have to go through all kinds of, like a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: crucible of fits and starts and good jobs and jobs
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: that make sense. And, you know, whether it's fast food
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: or whether it's maybe digging a ditch or maybe putting
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: siding on a house one hot summer, right? It's like
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: these jobs... that don't pay very well offer something else
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: that's really, really, really important to a person who is
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: maturing and growing.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I know what it is, I bet.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Say it.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: They offer you the time to think and plan and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: strategize and get excited for something that you want to do.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a soil that you get to be
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: in for a little bit.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: It's like a buffet.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: I remember that now.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: It's a buffet, man. You're not going to eat all
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: of it. It's not all going to taste good to you.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: You have to experience a whole long list of shit.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: And most of it is going to leave a funny
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: taste in your mouth. Most things aren't for most people.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: It's a giant process of figuring it all out and
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: also learning who you are. Now, I get it. That
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't address the fact that somebody busting their ass– with
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: inflation being wherever it is and the cost of goods
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: being wherever that is, can't afford to feed their family
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: on that salary. Now the other side is going to say, yeah,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: why did you have a family? What are you doing?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Why would you have a family before you have the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: means to provide for them? And then we're going to
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: have that whole conversation and it's going to get politicized.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: But if the basic argument is, wait a second, the
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: people at the top of this company are being unfairly
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: enriched at the expense of the work, I totally get that.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I totally get it. And I'll tell you something that
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: gives me hope, all right? Because I get constant- Thank you.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Because we get stuck in the doldrums sometimes. We get
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: stuck in the ditch and we don't look for the light.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the light, at least a
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: couple beams of it. The doldrums and the problem almost
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: always happens because it's door number one or door number two.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Everything is binary. So in this conversation, it's, well, are
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: you union or Or are you management? Are you labor?
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Or are you management? And like people have to choose.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: And now it's easy to forget that these are two
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: sides of the same coin because we always pit them
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: against one another. And then people wind up in interviews
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: like this or any one of a thousand other conversations,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: and they're going to get tagged as one or the other.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: So my hope is in an organization called Opportunity Works.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: And I learned about these guys pretty recently. Two years ago,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: a company called Groundworks, who you'll love, hired me to
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: give a speech in Virginia Beach when their CEO turned 5,500
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: of their frontline workers into owners. So here's what Groundworks does.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Groundworks will fix the foundation on your house. They will
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: encapsulate a crawl space. And they will waterproof your basement.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was hoping you'd say hide your stepmother down there.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: That's that guy?
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that's an upsell. I mean, look, you got to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: know who to talk to. But they, like if you
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: scroll through that, that's Dirty Jobs 101. I spent the first,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: a big chunk of the first season underneath houses doing
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: this kind of work. Now, a lot of these people
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: they've got a high school education. Some went further, but
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of the 5,500 guys I met on that day,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: they spend their life doing backbreaking work. They were made owners.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: It's like an ESOP plan and it goes all the
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: way down, all the way through the company. And it's
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: another one of those moments, Theo, I'm sitting backstage and
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: I'm watching these guys are there with their families and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: This is a financial event. Like it changes their life.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: So I said to the owner, hey, man, I like
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: this because now I don't think there's any, frankly, need
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: for– like how does a union negotiate against a member
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: if they own the company? It's like you just took
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: all the air out of that tire. And he said, well,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: if you like this, you got to meet my friend
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Pete Stavros. Pete works for KKR.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that third letter I wasn't sure it was going
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: to be. I was like, whoa, man.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: Whoa, Mike.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not feeling hopeful.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: We're trying to head forward.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: KKR. These were the original barbarians at the gate, you know,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: the whole Nabisco. Like that world of private equity gets
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: a really bad rap and in some cases I think
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: probably deservedly.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know about them.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a– That's okay. It's a deep dive. But
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: it's like when you think– when people talk about roll-ups,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: what they're talking about– I don't know about that either. Okay.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Let's say you've got a heating and air conditioning company.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Plumbing company, electric company. Let's say you've had it for
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: 25 years and let's say you'd like to retire but
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: you really can't and you got 30 employees and you
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: love them and it's their job and so forth and
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: so on. So the industry– consolidates when private equity comes
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: in and says, wait a second, we'll buy you, okay?
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: We're going to make you more efficient. We're going to
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: put you under somebody, some other name, okay? And you'll
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: be able to retire because you've worked hard and your
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: people will, well, you know, we're going to do, in
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: some cases, it's good for the workers. In other cases,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: it's not so good because in the name of efficiency,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: you can gut a company. So that's the negative wrap
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: on private equity has been that. But now what's starting
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: to happen, at least in these home services businesses, is
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: that this ownership works element, this guy, Pete Stavros, who
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: works for KKR, has done this groundworks deal. There's Pete.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: He's awesome. They've done this with like 70 companies where
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: they'll go in and they will work with management to
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: make everybody in the company an owner. And it's a
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: tough sell for management because they got to let go
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: of some stuff. But the research is incredible. Over time,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: what happens is these companies explode.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: They stay alive and people are excited about it and
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: hopeful about it.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: Dude, I mean, who do you want to come to
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: your house to fix a plumbing problem? An employee... who
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: is the epitome of a stereotypical plumber, butt cracked, hanging out,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: pissed off, overweight, like everything you've seen plumbers portrayed as.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, drugs, coke.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Or would you like the owner of the company to
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: come out and fix your problem? It changes everything. And
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: I've seen, like you guys should take a deep dive
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: if you want, but look at some of these videos
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: where Like I saw one the other day, a company,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: I think they were outside of Chicago, Nucor maybe. They
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: make garage doors. It's another one of these companies you
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: would never think about. It's like Moog and their ball bearings.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: What is that? Well, all of a sudden, like you
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: got truck drivers in these companies who have been there
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: for 12 years. And when this scheme goes into place,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: they leave this gathering with a check for $ 400, 000, $ 500, 000, $ 600, 000.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: Changes the– That's a financial event in their life. And
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: it changes the way you think about that sweatshirt, right?
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about. There is a way forward
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: that doesn't keep us stuck in the binary of labor management.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: And I think we have to– you have to realize–
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: like I start thinking like the only way to compete
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: with big business is you have to start a new business.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: way to do big business that like I wanted to
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: sell like a water, right? I thought like so many
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: people are in recovery and so many more people are
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: headed into recovery for drug addiction, sex and pornography addiction.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Like that's one of the biggest epidemics that's coming right
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: now is pornography addiction, right? And it's not even here yet.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: It's coming.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: I see what you did there. It's coming soon.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Hopefully not super soon.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: It's just you and me in here. Stay on that
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: bull for eight seconds and we'll hope for the best.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. How bad is that creamer over there?
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: I feel sleepy. Can I lie down?
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. Okay, I can keep going on that. But, yeah,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: it's like you have to fight fire with fire, and
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: you have to fight it with more compassionate and empathetic fire.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, what if we sold a water
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: where the proceeds of it went to put people in rehab, right?
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: So then it would be really hard, especially these days
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: where so many people All they have left is how
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: they feel kind of because a lot of other things
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: have been taken away from them. It would be hard
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: to say, okay, I'm not going to buy this. I
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: know this is going to help somebody get better, right?
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: It's like I think you have to start thinking beyond
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: like this circle that we've been in of just like
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: profiteering and of like combining everything. Everything is just like
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: these– what do they call it when they all get
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: together but it's one owner or whatever?
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: Co-op. Co-op.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: Co-op or like, because a lot of the stories that
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: I heard, this is, I just thought about this. A
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: lot of my friends' stories were that their dads got
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: laid off after working at a place for 20 years
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: and 25 years or their grandfather. That was the story
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: that I heard where I bet a generation earlier was,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: you know, my grandfather got a big severance thing and
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: he got this and that. And he was like the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: pride of the company. A lot of the other stories became,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: my dad got laid off after 22 years. They didn't get,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: you know. And I think a lot of that happened because,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: like you're saying, umbrella companies came in. Things got consolidated.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're meeting with Mark Zuckerberg, and they're like
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: up against antitrust stuff right now.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, big time.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Which is pretty crazy and scary.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, dude. I mean, there's so much to think and
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: say about Facebook. Mark's coming in here specifically?
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: We're going to see him in Los Alamos or whatever
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: they live at, Facebook.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're down the peninsula from where I live north
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: of you. Amazing campus. Check out the roof. Really? When
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: you go there. Yeah, I don't know if it's changed.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Is it good?
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: Is it siding?
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: It's sushi and a lot of siding. Yeah. Sushi and siding.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, a roof is just brave siding.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you what Mark did for me, just
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: so you get a sense. I mean, there's just endless
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: things to say about the guy.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to get to spend time with him.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I wouldn't be here without Facebook. I
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: know it's crazy because there's clips of me out there
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: telling Jay Leno I'd rather have hot needles stuck in
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: my eyes than book a face or send a tweet
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: or whatever that was. But once I realized that all
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: the shows I work on could be programmed basically by
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: the people who watch them, that was amazing to me.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: So I got eight, nine million people out there now,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: six on Facebook and a couple- That's great.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: Look, these are my bosses, right? you know, and I'm
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: super late to the YouTube party, but I just got
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: a million over there.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: You did?
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: Well, your show's on there too. It comes out May 2nd.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: And that show wouldn't exist without Zuckerberg. Okay. So let's
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: hear about it. So six years ago, Mark invites me
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: down to Facebook and he talks about this thing called watch,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Facebook watch. And the thought was, who are we going
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: to be 10 years from now and who are we
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: really going to compete with and how is that going
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: to work? And could we be Netflix? Should we be
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: a kind of Netflix? So that company basically committed to
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: spending close to a billion dollars to answer that question.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: So how do you figure it out? You green light
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: a couple of shows and they did something called Ball
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: in the Family, some famous basketball player. They did something
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: with Jada Pinkett Smith and they did something with me.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: What they did with me was a show called Returning
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: the Favor. Returning the Favor, I think you would dig. Basically,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: I would look for and Facebook would tell me about
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: people in these little towns that you probably couldn't find
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: on a map. that were doing something super cool in
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: their neighborhood in a totally selfless way. So it's like
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: bloody do-gooders running amok, right? And so we would go
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: in there and we'd meet these people and we would
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: tell them, like, I'm not there at this point. I
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: would send the crew in and they'd say, hey, we're
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: working on a documentary about your town. We understand you're
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: doing some good work maybe with foster care, maybe with PTSD, right?
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: And we would love to talk to you about that.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: So meanwhile, they're filming that, and I come in later,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: and parades are arranged, and we free up a big
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: chunk of money, sometimes 100 grand, to maybe build something
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: that allows them to do more of what they're already doing. Oh,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: that's beautiful. Some kind of gift. So the show– It
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: was a feel-good show, but it was also the making
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: of a feel-good show. Now, here's where it gets crazy.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: We do 100 episodes, which is a lot. The show's
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: a hit. It's a lot. It's downloaded 450 million times.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: No way. Okay?
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: Dude, congratulations, bro. You're an infection, and it's a good one.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: It gets crazier. I win an Emmy, okay? Like, I
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: never won an Emmy.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: I hope it was Emmy Rossum, huh? Mm-hmm.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: Is she cute or not? Sorry, that was a bad joke. No, no,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: she's something. She is?
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: I don't even know who she is. I was just
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: thinking of the only Emmy I know.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: She's a good one. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, she's talented.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: Rossum damn near killed them all. That's an old Emmy
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Rossum joke.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: So what you got to know is this never happened.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Hits are hard. Emmys are hard. Of all the things
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: that I've worked on to be recognized this way, right?
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: So we got to 100 episodes. I win my Emmy,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: and we're canceled two weeks later. Now, that's impossible. But
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: what happened at Facebook was they decided after four seasons
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: that this whole watch platform wasn't working. They're just not
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: going to compete with Netflix. So no harm, no foul.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: But it was– we had two million people on a
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Facebook page who would watch that show like on the
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: edge of their seat. And it was a giant community
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: of people who really gave a shit and they were
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: super interested because remember– not so long ago. In fact, today,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: the country is so divided and there's so few things
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: everybody can agree on. This show was, I think, one
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: of them. It was just a celebration of the neighbors
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: you wish you had. I don't own Returning the Favor,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: but we're relaunching it next week, May 2nd, under a
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: new title called People You Should Know. And dude, I'm
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: not like overly earnest. I get all my sentimentality is
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: taken care of in my foundation. But this thing, I mean,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: whether it's addiction or you're going to meet a guy
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: on this show called Steve Hotz. He runs something called
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: the Black Horse Forge down in Fredericksburg. The PTSD thing,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: you're up to speed with how bad that is?
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Not how bad. I mean, I know that it's a,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: you hear about it so much and it's used so much.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's hard to know what's really going on
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: Well, last year, 6,407 service people killed themselves. And divided
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: by 365, it's like 17.5 a day. But that doesn't
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: count overdoses. That doesn't count death by misadventure, addiction. You
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: add up all of the deaths, the preventable deaths of despair,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: and the number's way beyond that. So on returning the favor,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: we profiled– like we– the number of things people are
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: doing to combat this, you would love. We hunted pythons
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: in the Everglades.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: I hate them.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: They're annoying. They're big and they're very snaky. Putting motorcycles
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: together in Indiana, you got to get these guys out
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: of their head if you want to help them. This guy, Steve,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: the Black Horse Forge, has had 22,000 vets come through.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: Zero suicides. He's batting 1,000.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: Steve Hotz? Yeah. We got to get him in here.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: Dude, you would. So this guy was like a dress designer,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: an interior designer. All right? He goes sideways with his boss.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: He decides to enlist. 82nd Airborne. Has hundreds of jumps.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: Compresses his back. Damn near breaks it. Loses an eye. Ooh.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: Comes home. Absolute rock bottom. He's just, it's everything he
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: loved is upside down. And he starts making knives in
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: a forge and realizes that when you're forging, the only
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: thing you can think about is really what you're doing
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: and don't burn yourself. And it so completely took him
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: out of his head.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: I could have gone either way. You see a depressed
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: dude making a knife. You're like, how's this going? He's
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: made hundreds. Wow.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: He's got a whole line called the Jackalopes named after
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: cryptozoological creatures, right? Like the Beast of Bladenboro and all
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: these things.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: So he's one of the guys we'll be featuring on
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: this thing. That's him. There he is right there. That's him, man.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: One-eyed Steve. Fucking tough son of a bitch.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: One-eyed Steve. Yeah, he threw me out the door. You
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: ever listen to Widespread Panic? Yeah.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: I like them. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: Am I conflating Panic at the Disco?
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you might be.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: They should combine. You'd have Widespread Panic at the Disco.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: At least for one small tour.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: One massive stadium extravaganza.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: That'd be something, dude.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: I like that. Or Def Leppard and Glorilla, maybe like
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Def Glorilla.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: Def Glorilla, yeah.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: Dude, they should have cool bands that merge. Taco Bell
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: and Pizza did it.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: How about Queen and Kings of the Stone Age?
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: Kings and Queen of the Stone Age. Like have a
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: little family. That'd be amazing.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or just like, yeah. Or Trans of the Stone Age,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was going to say Kansas and Boston. Get
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: all this. Kansas, Boston, and Chicago. That'd be amazing.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 4: God.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: That's a great idea.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what else they went to. This whole
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: QVC thing dragged forward with a guy like you. If
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: you'd have me, I'd do it too. But a celebration
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: of American-made products done at like with this level of production,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: what you really need is a back office to help
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: you with the stuff. Do you know Josh Smith, Montana
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: Knife Company? Get his ass in here.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Dude, didn't we see each other at Dave– Ramsey's thing.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: Were you there? No, I've done Dame for MC's thing.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: Were you there?
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: I think, I don't know if we might've been there
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: at the same time or Tucker Carlson. We get that
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Zen thing he had.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That this guy makes some of the most, he's
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: a master bladesmith. He was on a, what is it?
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: Forged in fire. And I met him about a year ago.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: This guy, I mean, talk about a quest. He makes all,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: everything is in America, just like Bayard over at, uh,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: American giant.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: Only he's up in Montana. These knives are amazing. He
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: comes on my podcast and, um, full disclosure, he, he's
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: not a sponsor, but he said, you know what you're
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: doing with micro works, anything I can do to help.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: And people offer, they say nice things, whatever. So I said, well,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: I tell you what you do. If, if you want
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: to make a micro works blade, you know, my real limited,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I can, I, I promise you my people
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: will buy them like that. because your knives are amazing.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: And when they go to your site, maybe they'll get
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: a sense of who you are and what you've done
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: and how many jobs you've created and so forth and
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: so on. And he makes 300 of these things. They're unbelievable.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: They're not cheap. We sold them for 350.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: Let me keep every.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: We raised like $ 70, 000 immediately, immediately. Now they're doing a
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: knife and my foundation participates and I'm going to talk
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: to Bayard about doing something similar because to your point,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: you got to fight fire with fire, right?
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. You can't just keep yelling at it.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: You can't explain, this is what they're doing. This is
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: what P you have to start to be like, well,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: how do we be engine? How do you ingenuity it
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: or whatever it's called? Engineer, engineer, engineer.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: How do you, but that's how you win. It's like,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: But just pointing the finger at a time that you're
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: not doing anything.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: Here's something.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: You have to win the game up here first.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: You got to– you know what it is? It's asymmetrical warfare.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: You have to think– like in this conversation, typically Walmart
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: is the devil because the rap is, oh, well, they're
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: buying stuff super cheap because people need it super cheap
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: and that's what Walmart is and whatever. The thing people
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: don't know, and I don't work for Walmart, but I'm
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: just telling you, I know them pretty well. And they
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: have spent nearly $ 700 billion on US supply chain. So
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: what happens is, God, I hope I'm not talking out
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: of turn. They made a deal with American Giant too,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: didn't they? Yes. That's what I'm going to tell you.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: And this is what your audience needs to understand. And
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: this is why it's really hard To get, you know,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: good guys and bad guys with black hats and white hats.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: It's not that simple. So you got a company like
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: American Giant who makes a great T-shirt and it says, like,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: you know, American made on the front. It's thick. It's indestructible.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: I got one. Bad news, $ 75. Now, most people can't
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: pay $ 75 for a T-shirt no matter how rad, right?
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: You just can't. It's not in the woods. But what
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: happens if a company like Walmart, the biggest retailer in
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: the world, sets aside a real chunk of money and
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: calls a company like American Giants and says, I tell
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: you what, we love that shirt. If we order a
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: million of them, Or even half a million.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: Now they can do it.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: As opposed to the normal $ 5, 000 or $ 10, 000 IPO you
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: might get. If we blow this thing up, what kind
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: of price could we actually get at that level? And
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: then the price starts to come down. $ 15, $ 20. Under $ 20,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: you can get an American-made t-shirt. That's what you're talking about.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: It's not going to happen with the current way of thinking.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: The problem is if I go out in the world
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: and tell that story, there's a whole long list of
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: union people who are going to say, Mike, you don't understand.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: Walmart's the devil because this, this, this, this, and this.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: And I say, look, I get it. That's your fight.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: And I don't particularly have skin in that game. I'm
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: sympathetic to your cause. But it's back to that tier two,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: tier one conversation. You don't talk about tariffs like it's
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: only an economic thing or you want to talk about
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: it up here. If you're going to talk about it
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: up there, you can't just look at Walmart as the
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: devil because you've been told they're the devil. And you
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: can't look at American Giant as a small, scrappy U.S.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: company that makes things that are too expensive because they're
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: doing the best they can with the way the table's
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: been set. But if you get these two guys together
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you get a different kind
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: of investment in a supply chain in our country in
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: a different way– That's how a T-shirt can be made
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: in this country for a price most people can't afford.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: And that's a story that, look, that can happen with knives.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: That can happen with anything.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: Imagine like a QVC type of thing, right? Where it's like,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: this is American made and it's awesome, right? You would
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: like make sure that the products were good and that
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: they had enough of a supply chain where they could sell,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: or maybe they could only make 50 this month, but
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: that's what they are. And then they're limited. And then
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: you have like something that's a real person made it.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: And then when you're walking around with something on your back,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: This is like, you're not just carrying, you don't just
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: have a shirt on your back that makes you look cool.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: You have somebody's well-being and their purpose on your back,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: you know? And so now you're carrying something together. You know,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: once you're both carrying purpose, it takes a lot of,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: it's pressure if it's just you, but if you put
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: the same weight on two people. That's purpose, man.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: Well, look, man, that's rod busting 101. Look what you
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: just did there. I sound like Dennis Rodman. Full on
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: metaphor there. I did a job a couple years ago
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: with these rod busters. They're iron workers, right? And they
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: carry the rebar, right? So you got a chunk of rebar.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: Say it's like, I don't know, whatever the gauge is.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: It's thick. These things weigh a couple hundred pounds. And
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: you get like eight of them. So you got 800
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: pounds on eight guys' shoulders. And that's the only way
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: you can move them. You have to put the weight
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: on your shoulder. Where it gets crazy is, well, that
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: guy's short and that guy's 6'3. Now, if you're 6'3,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: you're screwed. Yeah, you're doing a lot of, yeah. Right,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: so it's like the whole, it's really a great metaphor
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: because when you're humping the iron up to the top
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: of the skyscraper, you're stepping through a grid of rebar
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: that's already been laid. And if you trip and you
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: go down, you take everybody with you. So it's an
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: incredible metaphor for teamwork consequences, stakes, working together, right? And
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: to your point, there are other ways to get the
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: rebar to where you need to set it. But this
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: is the best way. And it really does take a
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: different way to think. And then ironically, of course, have
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: you ever seen a bridge before they pour the concrete?
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: where the whole thing is just like a skeleton of steel.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: It's- Sounds very nice.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's beautiful, and it's artistic, and it's like what
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: we were talking about before. There it is. That's like
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: a whole panel of rebar there, right? Oh, yeah. And
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: that's just on the floor, but when you see like
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: an overpass being built, it's like some kind of a dinosaur,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: and it's all done with hundreds of tons of, of, of,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: of iron. And like the guys who do this work,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: there you go. That kind of thing. It's just mind boggling.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: And then when they come, like the concrete guys come
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: and they bury it, man, forever. No one ever sees
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: the artistry. No one ever sees the work of the
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: iron worker. You know, for a hundred years, it'll, it'll
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: live in the concrete. Well, that's, Like so much of
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: that is happening to people today. They feel like their
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: good work has been covered in concrete. They feel like
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: it's invisible. They don't feel appreciated. They don't feel like
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: they're moving the needle. They don't feel like they're part
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: of a team.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: You know? And we have to do it. The toughest
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: part then is, I've found in my own life, when
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: it is, if I keep, and it's not like you're
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: playing the victim, but sometimes you're the person that gets
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: affected by something, but you also have to be the
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: person to be a part of fixing it. And that's
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: the toughest thing. Cause there's a part of me that
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: always wants to be like, this isn't fair. And I'm
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: not saying for me, I've been fortunate in my life.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: I can afford to pay my rent and I can
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: afford to buy my groceries. But there's certainly been times
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: where I've in the past where I've been like, you know,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: this is unfortunate. You know, it's there. It's the, it's
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: a side. It's this, this fault, but still it put
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: me in a certain position. I still have to be
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: the one to correct my position.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: It's you. Look, whatever it is, it starts with you.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: That's why the first tenet on my stupid sweat pledge
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: is about that gratitude. I don't think you can feel
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: sorry for yourself if your default position is grateful.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, that's the truth, man.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: I just don't think you can.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: And self-pity can be a drug. I was addicted to
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: self-pity for a long time. I didn't even realize it. Yeah, man.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: I was addicted to self-pity. I was like, oh, that's
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: a– and I would get addicted to it.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: Feels good to feel bad. It does.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: Especially when that's the thing you're most used to feeling.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: It feels impossible to even attempt to feel good. I
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: was afraid to feel good because I would be, I
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: was afraid I would leave my bad feelings behind. And
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: they were the only feelings I'd ever even known.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. You, you, you would betray your negativity. Yes.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: And thereby let yourself down again.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: That's a, that's crazy. And I never even knew that
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: could happen, man. That took a ton of work to
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: get to do that. Uh, Yeah, I would love to
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: think of something. It's so funny because I've been trying
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: to think of that. How do we fight fire with
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: like a fire that has a feeling in it, right?
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, what about unions? We had Sean O'Brien
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: come in about unions. Unions helps a lot of people.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like unions are bad or do you
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: feel like unions are good or it's just.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: Too broad.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: Too broad. Never mind.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. It's a great question. But it's like, okay,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: so the iron workers we were just talking about.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a cheap question to me to just
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: fling at the end.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Well, look, my own problem, first of all, 2,200 people
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: through MicroWorks, I'd say maybe 20, 25% of them are
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: working through a union shop. Most of them are electricians,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: some plumbers. But by and large, the percentage in my
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: cohort of scholarship recipients and workers is– It's actually bigger
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: than the– I think the national right now, 8% of
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: workers are in a union or something like that, maybe
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: a little less. You can check and I'm not sure,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: but it's close to that. So yeah, I don't want
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: to paint with too broad a brush, but the thing–
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: it's like tier two and tier one with tariffs. If
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: you're going to have a conversation about how best to
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: negotiate between labor and management, There you go. 10% in 23, 11.2
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: in 23, 6.7 private sector. That's really what you're asking.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: Look at that. 6.7% in 2024 in the private sector,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: like iron workers or plumbers. 35.7% in the public sector.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: That could be the post office. That could be teachers.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: That could be the SEIU. That could be all sorts
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: of different things.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: If businesses start to become more like groundworks, you wouldn't
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: even need a union.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: So really, again- That's the future.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: Fire with fire.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: How do you, yeah. It's reconceptualizing things.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: I call it door number three, right? You can't just
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: give me one or two, left or right. blue collar
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: or white collar.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Republican or Democrat. No, it's all a shell game. You
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: have to realize this whole thing has been a shell game.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: It's a sucker's bet.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: It's like the color of collars is no longer for sale.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: Don't talk to me about blue or white. That's the
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: point of the groundwork story. You got a guy covered
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: with mud under your house, your greatest investment. Okay. Doing
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: something to save the foundation. Now, are you going to
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: call that guy a blue-collar worker? You're going to call
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: that guy just a grunt? That guy is a fucking
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: surgeon at that moment. That's right.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: For your family to sleep safe at night, that guy
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: is your surgeon.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: That's right. And he's also an owner of the company.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: So now all of that other pride of ownership, all
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: of that other code-driven integrity thing, right? You can start
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: to see how you might be able to build a
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: cohesive unit around something other than a paycheck. And that's
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: not an excuse to say the paychecks couldn't be better.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that if you only look at the
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: economic ramifications of a tariff, that's not much different than
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: own looking at whether or not you like your job
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: based on what your paycheck says. And if you take
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: the bait on that, the next thing you know, you're
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: going to be having an argument about UBI, universal basic income.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: And you're going to get sucked into this whole conversation about, well,
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: what are people going to do if there is no work?
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: And we ought to just pay them not to do anything.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: And then you've got all kinds of moral and ethical questions.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: It never stops.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: If at a certain point– at a certain point, you
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: have to invest in your own country and your own people,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: the spirit of your own people. And I can't understand–
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: how that's not extremely evident right now. And if UBI,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: if universal basic income helps people to get by for
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: a couple of years or five years, while these, while
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: like things adjust from going from, let's try to build
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: stuff here in our own country and make people feel empowered.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: And if they're, as if they're part of the, an
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: assembly line of humanity and of purpose in, of a
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: nation and of a, a group think of, of a
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: moral code, then I don't, I don't, I think that
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: that's totally fine. Let's stop giving money to other places
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: who have enough money right now and help our own
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: people out for a little while, you know? And I
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: know I'm opening up bigger cans of worms, but it's just,
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: I fuck, I am all in. Cause if, if you
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: don't do it now, it is to me, it appears
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: like it's kind of going to be a wrap. And,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: but I still believe that there's that human spirit, that
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: there's that, there's that team spirit. There's that like, That
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: whatever made those people, whatever that thing is to be
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: an American, even if it's not even real, but we
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: believe in it, there's still that inside of us that
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: makes me believe that we could turn it around.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: That guy, Bayard, who you brought up, he's a Wall
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: Street guy. And 16 years ago, he said, no, I've just,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: his family came over on the freaking Mayflower, just so
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: you know. That's who this guy is. And he said, nope, redo.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: I'm going to build a company. called American Giant, and
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna prove that this country can still make quality clothing. Now,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: that's a very personal mission that could only be embarked
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: upon by a genuinely hard-headed dude, okay? But 16 years later,
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: they're still standing, and they're doing it. They're proving it, right? Now,
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: can you do it to scale? This is a whole
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: nother conversation. Right, we'll talk about it another time, we can.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, can you do it to scale? What pieces
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: have to start? But you have to start somewhere. It's
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: like the crazy person The leader was at first the
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: crazy person. The revolutionaries were first viewed as insane always.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: It's not just that. It's every great accepted truth today
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: began as madness. It was dismissed. And then it was
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: grudgingly considered. And then it was slowly accepted as fringe.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: And then it was more widely believed as possible. And
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: then it got a consensus. And then it became the truth.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: And then it became the self-evident truth. That's how it always,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: always happens. It's going to happen with every single thing
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: right now, from tariffs to climate change to meat eating
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: to addiction. All the things we think we know about
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: all of these different things are in a state of evolution.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: I agree. And I don't know– where or how it ends.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell you this, man. We are long in
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: certainty today. And we're very short in understanding. And it's
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: just going to take time. It's just going to take
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: time to be as certain about these other things as
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: we are about slavery. It takes time for people.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know how it ends. But look, again, You're engaged.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: What you're doing, I can see that you love it.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: You love it on stage. You love talking to people
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: and you love helping your audience. My hope for everybody
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: who is listening is that they can find a pursuit
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: that gives them a measure of that. And I've seen
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: it in welders. I've seen it in plumbers. I've seen
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: it in entrepreneurs. I've seen it in writers. My mom
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: just wrote her fourth book. She's 87. This woman wrote
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: every day for 60 years, Theo.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: Cleaning up after my dirty son?
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: Well, that was kind of her second one. But no,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: for 60 years, her dream was to be a bestselling author.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: She never got published until she was 80. And then
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: she went to number four. And now she's had four books.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: I only mention it because I talk about work ethic
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: all the time. I talk about my pop. I talk
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: about dirty jobbers and everything else. My mom, right in
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: front of me. you know, is a four-time New York
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: Times bestselling author. And she's 87. And that's a second act.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: It didn't really happen for her until she was 80.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: So whatever level of hope or hopelessness or despair people
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: are in, man, there's... I.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: Feel like we've just talked about a lot of inspiration.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel inspired. I feel like we can
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: do things. I just, I feel like things are so possible, right?
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I just appreciate that there's an audience that
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: tunes in and I hope they just stay patient. You know,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: and we'll keep thinking together and we'll find ways to
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: do things new. I just– I don't think it's that
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: far off to change things.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: You know? You're a hillbilly from Louisiana who just interviewed
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: the president of the United States. Oh, yeah. Are you
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: kidding me?
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great– Are you kidding me? That is
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: a great point, dude.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: When people tell me– Dude, I remember.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: When I couldn't find my shirt for almost one month.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: By the way– Three and a half weekends, dude.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: You talk about shirts. I– I can't believe you got
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: a wardrobe rack here.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we do.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: And the whole smiley face on the thing. It's exactly
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: what you were talking about. It's like your credo. It's
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: your code. It's such a simple thing. What's it say
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: on the back?
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: It just says be good to yourself on the back.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: Well, here you go.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, we're a lot of late bloomers here, but
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: we're fucking hopeful. And, yeah, I think we can do
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: something cool. Like we just have to make sure we
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: get it right, you know?
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: You got to try, man.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: Right. You have to try. That's the thing about terrorists.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: Like fucking try. I don't give a shit. There's nothing
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: to lose. I've been to every place. Everybody I know
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: is in addiction. What are we, what are we waiting
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: for to happen?
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: Tell me how it's working with 37 trillion in the hole.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: Tell me what's working. Okay. We're, this whole thing is
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: cobbled together with Kleenex and spit. And we've confused the
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: fact that we're still living in, in a, in a
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: workable situation and With a situation that truly works. Yeah.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: It's very wobbly.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: Kleenex and spit, I agree, man. It's time to clear
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: our own throat and make our own fucking glue, too,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: I think, you know?
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to go with phlegm. It
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: was phlegm, but it was— Well, if you're clearing your throat,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: you're cutting up the phlegm, you put the phlegm in
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: the glue, and then the next thing you know, it's
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: all in one of these little Sunny Delight things. And
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling weirdly caffeinated and subdued.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: Micro, your new show is out May 2nd. We'll make
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: sure to share some clips of it on our Instagram
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: page as well and on our Facebook.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: Thanks, pal.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a rehash of– it's not a rehash.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: It is a continuation of– It's a.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: Celebration of the neighbors you wish you had. Returning the favor,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: thanks to Mark Zuckerberg, set the standard. People you should
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: know is what I'm going to do. Look, I don't
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: even– I don't know what else to do except point
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: the camera at people who– who are actually making a difference,
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: whether they're making a sweatshirt or a submarine or saving
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: lives by making knives in a forge, man. These stories, Theo,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: that's where we land the plane, with your permission. If
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: you're looking for hope, it's in the forge. It's in
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: the sewing machines. It's with a welding torch. It's with
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: an attitude. that says, I'm going to cheerfully take hold
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: of that son of a bitch and I'm going to
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: lift it up and I'm going to do my part
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: to get the rebar to where it needs to go.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do my best. I'm going to try.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: And if I fall, I'm going to stand back up
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: because life is a, it's a journey, brother.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: And it's a job.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say a dirty one, just a job.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: Mike Rowe, thanks so much, brother.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: Anytime. Cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: share this peace of mind I found I can feel
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 3: it in my bones