Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 Elizabeth Holmes is the ultimate “girl failure”

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🎧 Elizabeth Holmes is the ultimate “girl failure” · Open Tabs

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to our Tuesday edition of OpenTabs,
0:03
SPEAKER_01: our twice-weekly conversations about things that are taking up space in our tabs,
0:09
SPEAKER_01: our feeds, and our brains.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Megan.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: Hi, how's it going?
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, Tuesday.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: So far, so good.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's just the two of us.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Melissa is busy, busy being a business owner today.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's just Megan and I.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: But we have some fun topics today, so we'll jump right into it.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so first,
0:36
SPEAKER_01: this is a bit of social media platform news that broke this week,
0:42
SPEAKER_01: and it's that Instagram is testing features,
0:46
SPEAKER_01: which are horizontal videos up to 90 minutes.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: After years of the head of Instagram,
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Adam Moseri,
0:56
SPEAKER_01: saying that long form would never come to the platform because Instagram is all
1:00
SPEAKER_01: about friend connecting and long form video doesn't vibe with that,
1:07
SPEAKER_01: they are now testing horizontal long form video.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Surprise, surprise.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: And they broke the news, which we thought was interesting.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: He broke the news on Colin and Samir, Colin and Samir podcast.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: And we pull a lot of gems from them.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: They're a good follow if you work in social media at all.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: And they seem to be Adam's go-to podcast or platform whenever he has
1:37
SPEAKER_01: an Instagram update that he wants to talk about, which is pretty interesting.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I also think kudos to Meta and Instagram for having
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I think that's huge in this day and age.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Think about how many people would be like,
1:57
SPEAKER_00: my CEO could never get on a podcast and have a conversation with creators.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And even you were telling me they pushed back on him and were like,
2:04
SPEAKER_00: you specifically said this wasn't going to happen and now it is.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: And so I think Instagram is doing something right in that regard of like they're
2:12
SPEAKER_00: a content company that has a CEO that they can send to interviews to talk about
2:17
SPEAKER_00: the product.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: But I do think this is a continued theme with them of they just kind of copy
2:23
SPEAKER_00: the features of other platforms.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: But it's also worked for them up until this point.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: So I think this just goes to show how important long-form video is right now.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's important to the consumer though or if it's important to the platforms.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'm consuming more long-form I don't know how this is gonna go for them.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with you, Megan.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: When it comes to podcast viewing or my long-form consumption that's outside
3:09
SPEAKER_01: of traditional media,
3:10
SPEAKER_01: like TVs and movies, all of my attention really goes to Spotify.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: They have won me over in that.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: I love their podcast feature.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Spotify is where I do any long-form consumption.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: I just don't see it happening for me, but who knows?
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I probably thought the same thing about stories,
3:36
SPEAKER_01: and I was probably annoyed about Reels when they launched that,
3:39
SPEAKER_01: and I've adapted to all those things.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: So, we'll see.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it is interesting.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: I think we talked about Instagram TV when they started teasing it six months ago,
3:54
SPEAKER_01: but this is all a push to Instagram.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And if you didn't know, you can now scroll through Instagram on your actual TV.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: They have an app.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: But I think this is them just playing
4:09
SPEAKER_01: to that and also coming for YouTube, obviously.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh,
4:16
SPEAKER_01: and not exclusively,
4:19
SPEAKER_01: they're also, I guess, mobile Instagram is also coming to Apple TV.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: So I think this is like all a part of that.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Adam framed it as like a lot of our big creators have podcasts and they're having
4:35
SPEAKER_01: to use other platforms to post that podcast.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: So we're just giving them another avenue to distribute and to connect
4:44
SPEAKER_01: with their audience and all of that.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: So it'll be interesting.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: I think they're like testing.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: So not everyone has access to it.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And it was funny.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: They did a live demonstration.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: You can find it, I guess, on the Explore page on Instagram.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: And the video that was highlighted for features was this really weird,
5:09
SPEAKER_01: I think it was a prank video.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, this is the one that Instagram is featuring for their new features.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: And Adam was like, we don't have a lot of content yet.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Please don't judge.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Yikes.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's not great.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: All of this is just leading me to double down on my prediction that was
5:28
SPEAKER_00: for this year,
5:29
SPEAKER_00: but I think I'm going to stand by coming true eventually,
5:33
SPEAKER_00: is that we're oversaturated with distribution models,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: and so it's going to become about programming,
5:40
SPEAKER_00: and we're going to return to radio shows and channels,
5:43
SPEAKER_00: and that's already kind of happening with live and the rise of live.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: I think part of that is people are looking for what I keep calling
5:50
SPEAKER_00: A shared cultural context and they want to do things in community with others.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think people are a little bit over asynchronous consumption.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I think that there's a time and a place for that,
6:01
SPEAKER_00: but I think people are looking for more synchronous in community consumption
6:05
SPEAKER_00: of things.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think whichever network figures out how to do channels first
6:09
SPEAKER_00: and like do them well is going to kind of win back a lot of this attention that all
6:13
SPEAKER_00: of these platforms are fighting for with their push towards long form video.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: That's funny you mention that because last night I was meeting
6:22
SPEAKER_01: with my book club girls and we were talking about a lot of us are watching from
6:27
SPEAKER_01: on Netflix.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And we were saying how,
6:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you ever used it during COVID,
6:32
SPEAKER_01: but Netflix party where you could simultaneously watch a show with somebody else
6:38
SPEAKER_01: and you had like a little chat going.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I think, I don't know if it's a thing anymore, but we were like, oh, that would be
6:46
SPEAKER_00: so much fun.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: If we could watch this together.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And we were also talking about like some of the girls had watched
6:54
SPEAKER_01: the Victoria's Secret fashion show and it was on YouTube.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: So there was a chat going during the live stream and they were talking
7:02
SPEAKER_01: about what people were saying in the chat.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: So I definitely, at least in like my little friend circle, you're definitely right, Megan.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's also why people love internet drama because it creates
7:14
SPEAKER_00: that shared context of like we're all talking about the same thing at the same time.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not so much the gossip and the drama,
7:20
SPEAKER_00: though that is fun, but I think it's the doing something together.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Like right now I've been enthralled with this Ethan Klein H3 drama
7:27
SPEAKER_00: where it's this like couple that goes live a lot on their podcast and
7:34
SPEAKER_00: the wife posted on Instagram that she'd been betrayed and that he was cheating
7:37
SPEAKER_00: on her.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And so all weekend, everyone was unpacking what could have happened.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Was he having an affair with this person?
7:43
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it sounds bad, but it was really fun to see.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't follow these people, so I don't have a parasocial relationship with them.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: But, like,
7:51
SPEAKER_00: it was fun to see everybody pull up clips and unpack it and talk about,
7:55
SPEAKER_00: like, what was happening.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: So I think this is something people are really, really craving right now.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: H3 is really interesting because I...
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Occasionally watched his videos when he was just a YouTuber, which was like over 10 years ago.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: But their podcast, I never really watched it.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: And then this drama bubbled up.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: So I revisit it.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: And it really is.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about, you know, people having like work from home discord.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: So it feels like they're not working by themselves and they're with other people.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel like their podcast operates like that because it's like four hours long.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: It's just a live stream.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: No editing.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: He has a crew of like, there's like six different hosts or like contributors to it.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And it's just them.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: They go live like three times a week.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's for people who work from home
8:50
SPEAKER_01: or are like in college
8:52
SPEAKER_01: and studying and just want to feel like they have like
8:55
SPEAKER_01: a little friend group
8:56
SPEAKER_00: that's chatting in the background.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Hangout content.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Exactly,
9:02
SPEAKER_01: which is why people feel so parasocial
9:04
SPEAKER_01: because they feel like these people are their friends
9:07
SPEAKER_01: and why their interpersonal drama is taking over all of our feeds.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually a good segue to our next topic,
9:20
SPEAKER_01: which I feel like has also taken over everyone's feeds and everyone's brains for
9:26
SPEAKER_01: the past couple of weeks,
9:28
SPEAKER_01: and that is You can see everything,
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Nathan Fielder's new doc about Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos fame.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: It is on track to be the most successful documentary in history, which is wild.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: It was really hard.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I saw it on Saturday night and I could not sit next to my friend because it was fully booked up.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: There were just like single random seats available unless you wanted to sit in
9:57
SPEAKER_01: the front row, which people did.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Like it was fully sold out and all weekend, every show was sold out.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember the last time I watched a three-hour movie in theaters.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: I was locked in the entire time.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And I can't stop thinking about it.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: So some context.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you really have to have been living under a rock if you're not up
10:32
SPEAKER_01: to date with you can see everything.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth Holmes, fraudster, scammer, started Theranos, raised billions of dollars.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Her tech never worked, and it all crumbled down, and she is now in jail.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: But she goes to a halfway house next year, or this year, maybe.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: So she will be out in public soon.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: But Nathan Fielder of The Rehearsal and Nathan For You lived with her
11:04
SPEAKER_01: and her husband and their two kids in the 30 days leading up to her going to,
11:09
SPEAKER_01: before she went to federal prison to serve her sentence.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was so interesting.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Also, if you watched The Dropout on Netflix,
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Amanda Seyfried I personally don't believe in spoilers,
11:24
SPEAKER_01: especially once a movie's been out for two weeks.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm like...
11:44
SPEAKER_00: So I don't care.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't care either, but like maybe you had trouble getting a ticket, you know?
11:49
SPEAKER_01: It's sold out everywhere, but don't listen.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: True.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Go to another podcast.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: But basically the tension of the film is, is she lying?
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Because she still maintains her innocence.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Is she lying?
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Is she manipulating?
12:11
SPEAKER_01: And then the relationship with her new husband and father
12:16
SPEAKER_01: of her two children, Billy, who really, really loved the cameras.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: It was really interesting.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Who also comes from a very wealthy family of hotel owners.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Hoteliers, whatever that word is.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Hoteliers, yeah.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Hoteliers in San Diego.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So coincidentally, the person she fell in love with after scamming was a rich person.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Another rich person.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Go figure.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: She has a type.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: She does have a type.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Megan, what were you?
12:53
SPEAKER_01: I know you're an A-lister, famously.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So were you like, A Nathan Fielder fan
13:01
SPEAKER_00: before you watched it?
13:04
SPEAKER_00: No, not a fan.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I used to watch Nathan For You back in the day when it was on Comedy Central.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I haven't watched his most recent projects.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm not big onto cringe comedy,
13:15
SPEAKER_00: personally,
13:16
SPEAKER_00: and I feel like he kind of has a schtick,
13:21
SPEAKER_00: and once you get the schtick, it's like, do you enjoy him watching?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you enjoy watching him make people uncomfortable?
13:27
SPEAKER_00: And for me, the answer is usually no.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: But I think in this case,
13:31
SPEAKER_00: the answer was yes,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: because he was using that weapon of making Elizabeth Holmes uncomfortable to kind
13:38
SPEAKER_00: of put her under a microscope, see who she really is as a person.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was very genius in that he doesn't come
13:45
SPEAKER_00: to any like exact conclusion or like this is exactly what happened.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: He very much just like Puts her personality and manipulation style on display and
13:55
SPEAKER_00: then the audience can take away what they want to take away,
13:58
SPEAKER_00: which is part of why I think this has been such a huge cultural hit is
14:02
SPEAKER_00: because you leave and you immediately want to discuss it with someone.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm very bullish on word of mouth being so important.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Like that is still the number one way people are making decisions.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: And like my friends told me I had to go see this, so I had to go see it.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I told people they had to go see it, so they're going to go see it.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: Like I think That is something that is so important.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: And the narrative and the way that the movie is constructed very much sets itself up
14:26
SPEAKER_00: to be something that you want to go discuss with friends.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's part of why it's been so huge in culture and why it's having such success
14:33
SPEAKER_00: at the box office, in my opinion.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're totally right.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: In this Hollywood Reporter article that I will include in the show notes,
14:40
SPEAKER_01: they talk about how there was almost like zero marketing for this movie
14:44
SPEAKER_01: and nobody knew about it.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And then there it Did a surprise premiere at the Telluride Film Festival.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I've like occasionally gotten like some TikTok ads for it and like clips.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: But other than that, it's just word of mouth.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And one of my friends is a massive Nathan Fielder fan.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: I introduced him to Nathan Fielder.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: He's obsessed.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: He goes to Nathan Fielder's Bar in the city all the time that he started from
15:23
SPEAKER_01: the rehearsal, which, what is the name of it?
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Nathan Fielder's Bar.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: NYC.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Is it?
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Alligator Lounge.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: The Alligator Lounge.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: It's in Brooklyn.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And my friend goes there quite frequently.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And he was there once and both Nathan Fielder,
15:47
SPEAKER_01: he will occasionally be behind the bar serving drinks.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: And Emma Stone was there because I guess they did the curse together
15:56
SPEAKER_01: and she just was chilling at the bar.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: So I went with him.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: He thinks Nathan Fielder's a genius.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: It was very interesting to see, like,
16:08
SPEAKER_01: they were having an awkward off,
16:10
SPEAKER_01: like, who can make the other one more uncomfortable.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: And I don't, like, I don't know if either of them are really capable of feeling discomfort.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: It, like, didn't really feel like it.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: But The crux of what I wanted to talk to you about is since this movie
16:32
SPEAKER_01: or doc came out two weeks ago,
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I have been seeing a lot of Elizabeth Holmes' Girl Failure edits on my TikTok.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not familiar, Girl Failure
16:45
SPEAKER_01: is Gen Z's answer to Millennials Girl Boss.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: So...
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Girl failures are women who have crashed and burned,
16:56
SPEAKER_01: usually professionally,
16:59
SPEAKER_01: had very public missteps,
17:02
SPEAKER_01: and it's,
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
17:04
SPEAKER_01: celebrating the humor in another person's downfall,
17:11
SPEAKER_01: and also part of it is like, well, she went for it, and that takes guts.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: It's celebrating the failure or celebrating laughing at the failures of women.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: So Elizabeth is Gen Z's new girl failure.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: And one of my favorite TikTokers,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: TellTheBees,
17:35
SPEAKER_01: recently partnered with The Washington Post to create a video talking
17:39
SPEAKER_01: about why it is that, what it is about Elizabeth that resonates with Gen Z.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: And his POV was that Gen Z is so irony-pilled.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: That's the language that he used.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And they love laughing at the bleakness of modern life.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: And Elizabeth in this doc is the latest example of that.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to see if you had any thoughts after watching the movie.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think that if you've seen the movie,
18:14
SPEAKER_00: it's about Elizabeth Holmes,
18:16
SPEAKER_00: but then it becomes kind of about narrative construction and just kind of like,
18:21
SPEAKER_00: if you believe your own lies, does that make them lies?
18:24
SPEAKER_00: And Who's even to say what really happened and the truth of it all.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: But it's a very immediate idea,
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
18:35
SPEAKER_00: for Gen Z who can relate to like What you say on the record versus off the record
18:42
SPEAKER_00: and social media versus real life and what you said versus what you meant.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: And to the point of being irony pilled,
18:49
SPEAKER_00: I think that that makes a lot of sense because it's kind of similar to how I talk
18:53
SPEAKER_00: about loving low stakes interpersonal drama because it's like a bit of
18:57
SPEAKER_00: a victimless crime where it's like,
18:59
SPEAKER_00: yes, people's feelings are involved, but no one's being physically hurt usually.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: When I say I'm loving this drama, it's usually like relationship collapse or friendship drama.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: It's never like,
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Anybody's losing anything that's going to negatively impact their life forever.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think that Obviously,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: there are people who were impacted by Elizabeth Holmes,
19:23
SPEAKER_00: but the major victims of her crimes were her investors who she defrauded.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I almost see this as akin to the orca discourse when
19:33
SPEAKER_00: the whales were capsizing yachts or the submarine discourse when those people died
19:40
SPEAKER_00: in a submarine.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I think there is kind of a class of villain That we're okay with seeing them fail.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not even a celebration of her.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: It's a celebration of someone getting their comeuppance,
19:53
SPEAKER_00: I think is partially why people love this story.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like the schadenfreude of it all.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the way
20:01
SPEAKER_00: that she is getting her comeuppance is public accountability as much
20:06
SPEAKER_00: as it is like paying the price of having to do time in prison.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: But I think where the irony comes into all of this is that This has set her up
20:16
SPEAKER_00: to have a career post this as a internet personality, not as a business person.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Like I was listening to a podcast and they were discussing the plausibility
20:27
SPEAKER_00: of her being on Dancing with the Stars and whether or not that's like gonna happen
20:31
SPEAKER_00: and when.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And on the one hand,
20:33
SPEAKER_00: I wanna be like,
20:33
SPEAKER_00: obviously that's not gonna happen,
20:35
SPEAKER_00: but it's so within the realm of possibility of something that could happen.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: So I think that even as we're watching We're also intrigued of,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: like, how is she going to work her way out of this one?
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Because we see that,
20:47
SPEAKER_00: and look at the president, like,
20:49
SPEAKER_00: if you can construct a narrative,
20:51
SPEAKER_00: and if you can believe you're bullshit enough, you can do anything.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: And so I think as much as people are, like,
20:56
SPEAKER_00: watching this and celebrating that she's a failure,
20:59
SPEAKER_00: there's also the, what is she going to do next?
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And is she going to win everybody back, you know?
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Dancing with the Stars is no stranger to Scammers.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: They had Anna Delvey on a recent season, and I think she had an ankle monitor.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Bedazzled for the show.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, whatever gets ratings.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And Elizabeth Holmes has proven she can get ratings.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: So, to me, it's just a matter of what TV show she's going to end up on.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: But she's definitely going to end up on some sort of celebrity redemption tour TV show, I think.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: It'll be interesting to see what podcasts she does as well.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Daddy gang, I'm here with Elizabeth Holmes.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Do you go by Elizabeth or Liz?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Should I call you Liz?
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we laugh, but that's probably...
21:59
SPEAKER_01: That's probably what's going to happen.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: And it'll be like, tell us about when he met Billy.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: When she was wearing that, apparently, evidently wearing a crazy disguise.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Lay the ground for her breasts.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: I know.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like interesting because you also,
22:17
SPEAKER_01: her being a woman, also get the like, what is kind of annoying about like,
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Millennial, I think, feminism where it's like, well, she's a woman.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So like and her boyfriend's weird and like he's controlling.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's like they're both weird and controlling.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And she plays into that.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of the documentary is like her playing into the victimhood of it all.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: So I think she's just like so it's such a microcosm of like where millennial girl bossery is.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: That I think that's partially why this is so compelling to people
22:57
SPEAKER_00: because they can also project a lot about how they feel onto this narrative.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
23:03
SPEAKER_01: she was for a minute like up there with Sophia Amoroso and Emily Weiss from Glossier
23:12
SPEAKER_01: as like the ultimate girl boss for a few years.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting seeing she was an idol for so many young millennial women.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And now maybe just like the cognitive dissonance of seeing somebody they had
23:30
SPEAKER_01: so much respect and admiration for have such a heavy fall.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: I want to push back a little bit on that.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if anybody actually admired her.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: You don't think?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Like when she was on Forbes?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I feel like she was lauded by the business sector as someone to watch,
23:51
SPEAKER_00: but I don't know if any women were actually looking up to her.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: I thought she was full of shit at the time.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not the marketing girls.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: They definitely weren't because they had so many cooler,
24:04
SPEAKER_01: chic-er girl bosses they could look to, but I think maybe for the science girls.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Because, also,
24:12
SPEAKER_01: another thing I can't believe we haven't talked about, like,
24:14
SPEAKER_01: her look, too, and her personal branding play such a big role in her memification.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: She famously wore black turtlenecks,
24:23
SPEAKER_01: all of a Steve Jobs,
24:25
SPEAKER_01: and wore this intense, bold, red lip, and crazy, kind of messy blonde hair.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And the eyeliner.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: The eyeliner, her very deep voice, which she's gone up a little bit in the documentary.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: She's still, I feel like, a natural.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: It's still like, I'm like, I feel like that's not your real voice.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: But who's to say?
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Maybe her vocal cords are just trained like that now.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: I would guess she probably has a slightly deeper voice and
24:54
SPEAKER_00: then she was playing it up when she was in her founder era.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
25:00
SPEAKER_00: the presentation of self- During that era,
25:03
SPEAKER_00: it was so deliberate to communicate founder and inventor that it always read
25:10
SPEAKER_00: as false to me.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, this is going to be a hard pivot from Elizabeth Holmes to Drew's Gate.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: But interestingly,
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Drewski is going to be making his SNL debut in about a week and a half on the 7th.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: He's going to be the first content creator to ever host the show, which is very interesting.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so he's making television history.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like we'll probably have more to talk about after the episode comes out.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's interesting that he was...
25:54
SPEAKER_01: The Chosen One that Lorne Michaels decided to take on.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a young person in your life, Drewski is a comedian, YouTuber.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: He does a lot of skits, so the SNL format isn't unfamiliar to him.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: But he, I feel like, he's been a content creator for years.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like when he was part of the Marty Supreme rollout
26:20
SPEAKER_01: and had Timothy Chalamet, come on his channel and do a video with him.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that really helped him pick up steam.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: At least that's like when he came on my radar.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And I started noticing his content a lot.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember when he came on my radar.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: I think just being at YouTube, he was always on lists.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think he's always been a name on a list to me of like Gen Z, like people Gen Z loves.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: I think that what's more interesting to me here is SNL's strategy of how they choose
26:57
SPEAKER_00: who they're going to have on their show.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Because you'll remember they had Shane Gillis a few weeks back and that was very controversial.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like they do such a good job of plucking people from across culture
27:10
SPEAKER_00: to always stay timely and relevant.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: So like even with Drewski, it's going to be The Strokes as the musical guest.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So it's like You've got a very residual band that's going to be attractive to
27:22
SPEAKER_00: the older SNL audience and then you've got this young up and coming comedian
27:25
SPEAKER_00: who maybe they're going to be introduced to.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I think SNL does a really good job of staying relevant by tapping
27:34
SPEAKER_00: into different creators or different celebrities from different spaces.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And I actually am surprised it's taken them this long to get to creators.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And I would love to hear Lauren's take on why Drewski, you know?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: I know.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Because he's such a smart, thoughtful person and he's so smart about culture.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of his blind spots recently,
27:57
SPEAKER_00: like his age has been showing in recent years in that he just has blind spots
28:01
SPEAKER_00: for these spaces.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: But I want to know what made Drewski Is it where he decided to go?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Is it some of the new Gen Z staffers that they've hired from TikTok
28:10
SPEAKER_00: who are introducing him to online comedy?
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm just so curious of why this person got on Lauren's radar because at the end of
28:18
SPEAKER_00: the day, part of what I think makes SNL so great is his singular vision.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious,
28:24
SPEAKER_00: what is it about this creator that you saw mainstream potential in compared
28:29
SPEAKER_00: to everybody else?
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I agree because they have been plucking talent from TikTok and YouTube and
28:36
SPEAKER_01: across social media for a few years now.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it really popped off this year with Grace Ritter.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: I believe that's how you pronounce it because she has such a big social media following.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: And they have been featuring her a lot for a new cast member.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And they post almost anything she's in goes on their Instagram and TikTok.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, they're being very strategic about showing her on those platforms where her fans are.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is curious, like, did she introduce him to Drewski?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Was it a page?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Did an NBC page introduce him?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Because I also feel like a lot of their comedian talent,
29:16
SPEAKER_01: like Shane Gillis, auditioned for the show.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And Shane made it on.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: And then he had a racism scandal.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: So he got cut.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like Drewski is bigger than SNL at this point.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And he wouldn't need, maybe years ago, he would have.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Auditioned, but I don't feel like now he would.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: But I think for him,
29:43
SPEAKER_01: other than having Timothee Chalamet come on for Marty Supreme,
29:48
SPEAKER_01: which was probably a year ago,
29:52
SPEAKER_01: this is like the first legacy, mainstream media acknowledgement I've seen of him.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty exciting.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious about, I didn't know the Strokes were the musical guests.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: So that'll be interesting to see them interact at all.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: That would really be like worlds colliding.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Drewski and Strokes.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what's going to happen.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And so it'll be interesting to see like,
30:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:25
SPEAKER_00: and then looking past that,
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Indie Navarrete is hosting this weekend with Gracie Abrams.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: John Mulaney and Phoebe Bridgers.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: So it feels like a post-Shane Gillis,
30:38
SPEAKER_00: a distinct push into younger, cooler, hipper in a way that I find very interesting.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: I want to see the presentation that was given to Lauren to convince him to go in this direction.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it'll be interesting.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: I haven't watched a live episode of SNL in a really long time, and I probably will to see him.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're going to watch live?
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I might.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: It might be fun.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: My sister is a big fan of him, so she will definitely be watching it live.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: If she wasn't in my apartment, my roommate, I don't know if I would seek it out live.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: But I would definitely have watched it on Hulu or wherever it populates.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Peacock, NBC.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Duh.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I would definitely have watched it on Peacock the next day.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Watch it live.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Be fun.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: I think they gotta get Hannah and Paige.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised they haven't.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: They've been on all the NBC late night shows.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised they haven't so much as like made an appearance in a skit before.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: I feel like they're sleeping on them based on how quickly and how much their tour has sold out.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Like they sold out MSG twice.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: To me, that's insane.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Like they don't, Like, I love them.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: You know that those are my close personal friends.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: But, like, they're not performing.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: They don't have, like, a show, an act.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: They're just, like, show up and we're going to be us and you guys are going to laugh.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: And they've sold out on the premise of that.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's insane.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I know.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: It is kind of crazy.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm surprised they haven't
32:18
SPEAKER_01: at least had Hannah do something given her stand-up background and them being so,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: like, New York City-based.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's an oversight.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: They're such New Yorkers.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: I know.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: That's an oversight.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, who knows?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Maybe, Drewski,
32:37
SPEAKER_01: it'll be like the floodgates are open now and we'll be seeing creators all over now.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: I wonder, Drewski's thing is always like poking fun.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: And I wonder...
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I feel like he'll probably be poking fun at Shane Gillis and the moment he recently had.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Maybe too much time.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: It'll have been a couple weeks at that point.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think they'll get a joke in at least once.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Megan.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Great convo as always.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: And we will be back on Thursday.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: See you then.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Bye.