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Will We Find Evidence of Aliens by Their Engineering Projects? · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, the s Y s K treet Yes, San Francisco, Oakland,
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Speaker 1: petered out, it ends right now. Welcome to stuff you
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Speaker 1: should know. It's from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey,
1:31
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's
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Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, their foot on
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Speaker 1: the button, and that means this is stuff you should
1:41
Speaker 1: know the podcast. The foot on the button, just waiting
1:46
Speaker 1: to cut us off. Yeah, that's what no one knows.
1:49
Speaker 1: But Jerry has a kill switch at her foot for
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Speaker 1: all of our profane tirades. Yeah, it would kill us
1:57
Speaker 1: if she ever pressed it. That's right, that's why they
2:00
Speaker 1: call it that. But she's not very good at it.
2:01
Speaker 1: I've noticed I've noticed some stuff slips by. Yeah. I
2:06
Speaker 1: told her she's like Keith Richards of podcast producers because
2:09
Speaker 1: he can't use guitar pedals. So he's known for that.
2:13
Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Well, I mean, I don't know
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Speaker 1: how known he is, maybe among guitar players, but he uh,
2:19
Speaker 1: he just plugs right into the amp that's pretty great. Oh,
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Speaker 1: I see and his he was on Mark Maron's podcast.
2:26
Speaker 1: It was a great interview in maren he you know it.
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Speaker 1: It's pure Keith Richards and he was just basically like,
2:32
Speaker 1: you know, I have a hard time standing upright, like
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Speaker 1: I can't mess with trying to breast foot pedals. That's
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Speaker 1: Keith Man. Yep. Very pure. Yeah, and by pure, I
2:43
Speaker 1: mean pure heroine, pure China. He's clean now, But is
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Speaker 1: he really? That's astounding Well, I mean no, I mean
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Speaker 1: he doesn't do like hard drugs anymore. I got you.
2:57
Speaker 1: I think he drinks and smokes weed. I got you. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's like Christine. Actually, Maron smoked his first cigarette in
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Speaker 1: a decade in that show with him. Oh that was smart.
3:10
Speaker 1: That's a good decision. He was like, I have to
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Speaker 1: how can I not? Yeah, he easily could not have
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Speaker 1: done that. I'm disappointed. Did he really? Yeah? Keith Richard
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Speaker 1: offered him a smoke and he's like, sure, yeah, I
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Speaker 1: mean I see that. But at the same time I
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Speaker 1: was assos to not smoking. I know, I'm being judge.
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Speaker 1: Wagon your finger, So, Chuck, have you ever used energy? Yes? Well,
3:40
Speaker 1: you know, when you're using energy, most likely you're using
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Speaker 1: something like a fossil fuel, right, yeah, right, like gasoline
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Speaker 1: or natural gas or something like that stuff that comes
3:50
Speaker 1: from decomposing dinosaurs. Okay. The problem with using decomposing dinosaurs
3:57
Speaker 1: is most people know is that it's essentially an on
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Speaker 1: renewable resource. There's no more dinosaurs to decomposed any longer,
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Speaker 1: and even if there were, it would take tens of
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Speaker 1: millions of years for them to decompose into fossil fuels
4:10
Speaker 1: for us, right right, even if we could, even if
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Speaker 1: we had dino d n A and we could make
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Speaker 1: new dinosaurs just to kill them and watch them decompose,
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Speaker 1: which is something we would do if we had the capability,
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Speaker 1: I guarantee you, right, Um, but we don't have that
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Speaker 1: capability as far as I know, Like, no one's working
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Speaker 1: on that track right now. I don't think just uh,
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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg, right, maybe someone at Rutger's. So, um, we
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Speaker 1: we have to come up with energy sources that we
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Speaker 1: won't eventually run out of. And obviously there's like wind
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Speaker 1: and solar and as far as solar power goes, from
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Speaker 1: what I understand, we're actually doing pretty well right now.
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Speaker 1: Like right now, we use something like point zero one
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Speaker 1: percent of the sunlight that reaches Earth to to power
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Speaker 1: our our world, So there's a lot of room for
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Speaker 1: growth potential. The thing is is I also saw that
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Speaker 1: if we keep growing in our energy consumption, keeps growing
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Speaker 1: UH at something like one percent a year, within a
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Speaker 1: thousand years will be using more than the entire amount
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Speaker 1: of sunlight that hits the Earth UM can provide. So
5:22
Speaker 1: we really need to come up with something else. The
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Speaker 1: problem is is even if we harnessed all of the
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Speaker 1: energy here on Earth, we would very quickly outgrow whatever
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Speaker 1: energy it provided. So some people have said, well, why
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Speaker 1: don't we just go straight to the source. If the
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Speaker 1: Sun is such a great source of energy, but it's
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Speaker 1: shooting that energy out in directions other than the Earth, um,
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Speaker 1: the stuff that is starting towards the Earth doesn't make
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Speaker 1: it very frequently. Let's just go to the sun and
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Speaker 1: and basically strangle the life out of it to get
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Speaker 1: energy from it. Right, And one of the first proposals
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Speaker 1: of it, I don't want to say serious proposal, because
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Speaker 1: although it's been taken seriously over the years and almost
6:07
Speaker 1: been interpreted like scripture um, it was a thought experiment
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Speaker 1: to begin with. It's something called the Dyson spear. Yes. Um, well,
6:19
Speaker 1: I guess we should introduce the man, not that we
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Speaker 1: have him here, that'd be awesome. He's he's still around. Yeah,
6:25
Speaker 1: I know he's an old dude. But we're talking about
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Speaker 1: Freeman Dyson, not to the maker of the vacuum cleaner
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Speaker 1: or the bladeless fan or the bladeless hair dryer. Is
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Speaker 1: that really a thing? They have a dyce in hair dryer,
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Speaker 1: you know what that. I was so disappointed when I
6:46
Speaker 1: found out what the bladeless fan was. Why have you
6:50
Speaker 1: seen those? Yeah, you can stick your hand through it.
6:53
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Well I know, and I was like it
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Speaker 1: is it magic? Like how in the world isn't doing this?
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Speaker 1: But it's got a stupid blade. It is just housed
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Speaker 1: in a in a casing. Yeah, so that's a terrible
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Speaker 1: name for it, and then it just channels it up
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Speaker 1: and you know, squirts it out the front that they're
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Speaker 1: The Dyson invention that always got me was the air
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Speaker 1: blade hand dryer. I think we've talked about this before,
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Speaker 1: where you stick your hand down in there. Yeah, but
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Speaker 1: they're so filled with germs that actually I was in
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Speaker 1: a bathroom the other day and they have an air
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Speaker 1: blade now that just blows downward onto your hands and
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Speaker 1: it's actually I'm like, okay, now I'm satisfied with this invention. Well,
7:33
Speaker 1: you know you're not supposed to rub your hand on
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Speaker 1: the air blade itself. No, but it's so close. It's
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Speaker 1: like you're playing operation like I'm trying to remove a
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Speaker 1: funny bone or something like that. It's almost impossible not
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Speaker 1: to hit the sides of the thing. You know, your
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Speaker 1: big meat hooks are just rubbing all over every blade. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it is gross, believe me, because I walk out is
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Speaker 1: crying with my hands held in the air every time
7:52
Speaker 1: I go to the bathroom. Well, you and I have
7:54
Speaker 1: a very big thing about airport bathrooms. Um, and I
7:58
Speaker 1: think I had the worst one of my life at
8:01
Speaker 1: a Boston Logan on our last tour. Oh yeah, what happened.
8:05
Speaker 1: It was just not up to snuff. Like the first
8:09
Speaker 1: of all, the door and this might have been just
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Speaker 1: this one bathroom, but the doors to the stalls none
8:15
Speaker 1: of them secured. They've been ripped clean off. Well they
8:19
Speaker 1: were there, but you couldn't you know, the locks didn't work.
8:21
Speaker 1: It was just basically had to push my hand against it,
8:24
Speaker 1: which grossed me out. Yeah, that's not okay. And then
8:26
Speaker 1: the gap when the door was shut was like two
8:30
Speaker 1: or three inches big, like you could fully just look
8:32
Speaker 1: in and say, how you doing, how's your poop? Yeah,
8:35
Speaker 1: that's the Mr. Peeper's model. It's just not acceptible, you know,
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Speaker 1: in this day and age, to not have complete privacy
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Speaker 1: in there. I mean, I agree with you. I again,
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna reiterate. I think there should be one stall
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Speaker 1: for an entire bathroom so that no one could possibly
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Speaker 1: sit down next to you. But barring that, the all exactly.
8:56
Speaker 1: But barring that, though, like the place like we have
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Speaker 1: in our office is acceptable. It's a good second. There's
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Speaker 1: like a complete wall in between you. There's a complete
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Speaker 1: wall in front of you and a door that's securely shut.
9:10
Speaker 1: It's a water closet. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess
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Speaker 1: I guess it is O man, I knew we were
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Speaker 1: going to get distracted by poop. Yeah. This isn't even
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Speaker 1: the porta pot I know. All right, So sorry. Back
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Speaker 1: to Freeman Dyson, uh not the vacuum maker. He was
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Speaker 1: born in England. He worked most of his career. He's
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Speaker 1: retired now, but worked most of his career as a
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Speaker 1: physics professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton University,
9:40
Speaker 1: not Rutgers. Uh. He was a civilian scientist with the
9:47
Speaker 1: r EF in World War Two. I went to Cambridge,
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Speaker 1: then Cornell for grad school. This guy's got some bona fides. Uh.
9:55
Speaker 1: And then he's been in news recently by being a
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Speaker 1: big I mean, brilliant, brilliant man. But he's been in
10:02
Speaker 1: the news recently by being one of the more prominent
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Speaker 1: scientists that on as a climate change skeptic. Oh is
10:10
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah, and not like a complete skeptic, Like
10:13
Speaker 1: he does believe that it's I believe where what his
10:17
Speaker 1: stance is that he does believe that it's man made,
10:19
Speaker 1: but he doesn't think we have enough detail about all
10:23
Speaker 1: the variables for these computer generated models to be accurate.
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Speaker 1: So he's he's basically saying like, this is not the
10:32
Speaker 1: end of the world, and in fact, he thinks that
10:34
Speaker 1: increasing levels of CEO two can be a good thing
10:36
Speaker 1: for humanity. Ultimately, I don't know, I didn't get that far.
10:41
Speaker 1: He's like, it gets it gives you a pretty good buzz. Maybe,
10:45
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's pretty interesting though he's like I think,
10:48
Speaker 1: starting about you know, six to ten years ago, really
10:51
Speaker 1: started making the news with his somewhat controversial because he's
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Speaker 1: a brilliant man, and all these other scientists are like, wow,
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Speaker 1: he's such a smart guy, but he's so wrong on this.
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Speaker 1: But then other people are like, no, he's totally right.
11:04
Speaker 1: That's pretty interesting anyway. Um, so that's who he is.
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Speaker 1: And he in nineteen thirty seven, well not n seven.
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Speaker 1: He in the nineteen sixties was reading a book from
11:14
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven called Starmaker from uh, science fiction author
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Speaker 1: Olaf Stapledon, and uh, he saw this thing called a
11:22
Speaker 1: light trap from this book. Uh. And this book also
11:26
Speaker 1: had predicted things like virtual reality, and it's kind of
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Speaker 1: a pretty much a landmark sci fi science book. And um,
11:35
Speaker 1: he said, hey, this light trap sounds like a good idea.
11:37
Speaker 1: I'm going to rip it off. Yeah he did. And
11:41
Speaker 1: he actually it was I think a paper that was
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Speaker 1: published in Science and in journal Science in nineteen sixty
11:46
Speaker 1: and it's really short. Did you read it? Yeah? Yeah,
11:49
Speaker 1: it's like I think it took up two pages in Science, Um,
11:53
Speaker 1: out of like a thousand or something like that in
11:55
Speaker 1: that volume. But um, he basically said this would be
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Speaker 1: a great thing, as you say to rip Off, for
12:03
Speaker 1: a thought experiment I'm working on right, Because just very
12:06
Speaker 1: recently something called Project OSMA had been created, and that
12:09
Speaker 1: was they started to search the sky for extraterrestrial intelligence.
12:13
Speaker 1: It was the first city, UM, and they were looking
12:16
Speaker 1: for radio signals still are. But Dyson was saying, well,
12:19
Speaker 1: hold on a second, if you're gonna start looking for
12:21
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial beings like signs of intelligent civilizations, you should maybe
12:26
Speaker 1: start looking for these and and they came to be
12:28
Speaker 1: called Dyson's fears because he was the first one to
12:32
Speaker 1: popularize it, even though he got the idea from old Off. Yeah,
12:35
Speaker 1: he actually said, um, he thought a stapleed in sphere
12:39
Speaker 1: was a better name, but I guess not good enough
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Speaker 1: to actually use it, right, right, Yeah, he said it once,
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Speaker 1: very quietly. Yeah. But so this Dyson he it was
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Speaker 1: originally created as a again, a thought experiment. He wasn't
12:54
Speaker 1: he didn't talk about how to construct it necessarily or
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Speaker 1: anything like that, although were some follow up correspondence UM
13:04
Speaker 1: after the letter first came out, But almost immediately people
13:07
Speaker 1: started thinking about how you would create one of these things.
13:12
Speaker 1: This this dicensphere, and the who the whole point we
13:14
Speaker 1: should say, basically, at its at its basis, a diycen
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Speaker 1: sphere is um an engineering project, a megastructure that initially
13:26
Speaker 1: was thought to be basically a hollow sphere that you
13:29
Speaker 1: built around a star, for example, we would build it
13:32
Speaker 1: around our sun. And the whole point of this thing
13:36
Speaker 1: is on the inside of this sphere are solar arrays,
13:40
Speaker 1: so that all of that sunlight, like we were talking
13:42
Speaker 1: about earlier, that gets wasted as far as we're concerned,
13:47
Speaker 1: is captured and converted into usable energy for us. And
13:52
Speaker 1: and in Freeman Dyson's point was, if you build one
13:56
Speaker 1: of these things, you're going to capture light won't get out,
14:01
Speaker 1: but infrared radiation heat, thermal heat will escape. And so
14:06
Speaker 1: if you're looking around the skies for aliens, look for
14:08
Speaker 1: something that has a tremendous amount of like the infrared
14:11
Speaker 1: radiation of a star, but isn't putting any light out,
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Speaker 1: and maybe you just found an alien civilization. That's how
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Speaker 1: it began. But people started trying to figure out how
14:19
Speaker 1: to make one of these things almost as soon as
14:21
Speaker 1: he published that letter. So the one thing I don't
14:24
Speaker 1: get was he saying that look for this because other
14:27
Speaker 1: civilizations out there are using the Dyson spear. He he
14:31
Speaker 1: said that it would be likely that they that this
14:34
Speaker 1: would be an invention. They came up. Yeah, all right, well,
14:39
Speaker 1: um let's go should we go to uh this U
14:43
Speaker 1: Nikolai Karda Chef question. I think we can't put it
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Speaker 1: off any longer. It's pretty interesting. In the nineteen sixties
14:49
Speaker 1: there was an astrophysicist named Nikolai karda chef and um
14:54
Speaker 1: he was a Bond villain. And actually he wasn't, but
14:58
Speaker 1: he should have been. Um. He had this idea that
15:01
Speaker 1: there were three classifications of civilization. Uh, Type one, which
15:06
Speaker 1: is basically we have learned how to harness all the
15:10
Speaker 1: energy on the home planet, like everything you can possibly
15:15
Speaker 1: harness here on Earth. And you would think, well, that's
15:19
Speaker 1: probably us. We're not quite there yet. Uh. Really smart
15:23
Speaker 1: dude name Michio Kaku. UM not a Bond villain either,
15:26
Speaker 1: he said, Uh, in the next hundred years or so,
15:29
Speaker 1: maybe two hundred years, we might actually be a Type
15:31
Speaker 1: one civilization. Yeah. And like you said, this where every
15:35
Speaker 1: bit of Judeo thermal energy, every drop of sunlight, every
15:40
Speaker 1: um um, every bit of hydro electric power, all that stuff,
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Speaker 1: Every potential bit of energy is being harnessed by us,
15:49
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, we're nowhere near that right now. I
15:52
Speaker 1: think Cocu's assessments a little rosy. Oh well, and I
15:57
Speaker 1: can say that because he was on our TV show
16:00
Speaker 1: sort of well he was he yes, he appeared on,
16:04
Speaker 1: but we didn't interact with us in a real way exactly.
16:07
Speaker 1: He has no idea who we are, no none. Uh
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Speaker 1: So Type two is the next, of course, and they
16:13
Speaker 1: that kind of civilization would understand how to harness all
16:16
Speaker 1: of the energy not only on your own home planet,
16:19
Speaker 1: but the energy of a star in its own solar system. Right,
16:24
Speaker 1: that's where the that's where the Dyson spear comes in.
16:28
Speaker 1: That's what we aspire to do one day, right, maybe
16:32
Speaker 1: a million or so years from now. And then Type
16:35
Speaker 1: three is this kind of like following this logical progression, right,
16:40
Speaker 1: and that's harnessing all the energy of all the galaxies,
16:45
Speaker 1: or of entire galaxies, not necessarily all of them. Yeah.
16:49
Speaker 1: I think that the second the second stage, the type
16:53
Speaker 1: to civilization would be um the either the hardest to
16:58
Speaker 1: get to or take the longest to get to. And
17:02
Speaker 1: that's because when you build that first dicense fear, your
17:06
Speaker 1: technology and your energy efficiency and your productivity is going
17:10
Speaker 1: to just shoot forward exponentially from that point on. So
17:15
Speaker 1: so once you build that first one, you can start
17:18
Speaker 1: building more and more and more much more quickly. So
17:20
Speaker 1: you jumped from a Type two to a Type three
17:23
Speaker 1: civilization pretty pretty fast compared to how long it took
17:27
Speaker 1: you to go from a Type one to a Type
17:30
Speaker 1: to civilization. Yeah. I think it's like any any product,
17:34
Speaker 1: even that that first one is tough, and then you
17:35
Speaker 1: can scale it and uh, but well we'll get to
17:39
Speaker 1: the robots here. So okay, in fact, let's take a break.
17:42
Speaker 1: I'm getting a little psych chuck, and we'll talk a
17:44
Speaker 1: little bit more about the Sun right after this. All right,
18:13
Speaker 1: So I went when I said the word sun, Yeah,
18:18
Speaker 1: I thought that was odd. No, it's not. You know,
18:20
Speaker 1: I honestly had no idea where you're going with this.
18:23
Speaker 1: Well you do, you're being coy. Uh. Most people out there,
18:27
Speaker 1: most long time listeners, know that our Sun podcast was
18:31
Speaker 1: one of our our biggest struggles and would have been
18:35
Speaker 1: our biggest achievements had we uh done it right. It's
18:39
Speaker 1: the biggest pity applause. We get yeah for this sun. No, no,
18:45
Speaker 1: it was it was fine. You tried, Yeah, good for
18:49
Speaker 1: you for trying. But uh, let's talk a little bit
18:52
Speaker 1: about the sun. This stuff I can deal with, at
18:54
Speaker 1: least as far as its immense power and energy. Um,
18:59
Speaker 1: and I love of the Our own article has some
19:01
Speaker 1: of these comparisons. Um, the sun can generate five times
19:08
Speaker 1: one zero to three horsepower. I think that that is
19:11
Speaker 1: a TYPEO. I think that it's supposed to be five
19:14
Speaker 1: times ten to the twenty three power. You think that's
19:17
Speaker 1: the only explanation I have for that doesn't make sense.
19:20
Speaker 1: That's a really small number. Actually, yeah, I agree, it
19:23
Speaker 1: would be like about horse power. Yeah, that's five times tinted.
19:32
Speaker 1: It's gotta be someone just got lazy there. Serious. They're like,
19:35
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do the little twenty three thing, right,
19:38
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how to use superscript. What
19:40
Speaker 1: am I like a great editor? Superscript? That's what it is, right,
19:44
Speaker 1: superscript and subscript. Uh So let's put it this way,
19:48
Speaker 1: and this one is the one that cracks me up. Um,
19:51
Speaker 1: the sun has enough energy to melt an ice bridge
19:55
Speaker 1: two miles wide and a mile thick from Earth to
19:58
Speaker 1: the Sun in a single second. In a single second,
20:01
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. This is the only article I think
20:04
Speaker 1: I've ever seen an ellipse in like like the author
20:07
Speaker 1: was like, wait for it, in a single second. Yeah,
20:11
Speaker 1: I don't even think they did the ellipse right. And
20:13
Speaker 1: the ellips supposed to be right after the letter or
20:14
Speaker 1: is there space? I think there's supposed to be a
20:16
Speaker 1: space on either side technically, Yeah, I've been doing these wrong. Then, well,
20:22
Speaker 1: don't feel bad. This thing says five times one thousand,
20:25
Speaker 1: twenty three horsepowers. It's all good, all right. What else?
20:29
Speaker 1: One trillion one megats on bombs going off every second
20:34
Speaker 1: if your war like, and then finally, one single second
20:39
Speaker 1: of son action whatever that is is enough to power
20:44
Speaker 1: our earth for half a million years. That drives it home.
20:49
Speaker 1: It does, but it also gives you an idea of
20:52
Speaker 1: just how primitive we are energy consumption wise, Like it's
20:58
Speaker 1: it's it's it's crazy because you know, we're really worried
21:01
Speaker 1: about running out of our non renewable resources, but we
21:04
Speaker 1: use such a minute amount of energy that that the
21:09
Speaker 1: Sun could power the energy use we use currently for
21:13
Speaker 1: half a million years in one second, ye. Right, so
21:17
Speaker 1: that also kind of takes your mind though too. Um.
21:20
Speaker 1: And this is I think one of the things, one
21:22
Speaker 1: of the buttons that Freeman Dyson um pushed. It makes
21:28
Speaker 1: you realize, like, holy cow, we could do some really
21:32
Speaker 1: amazing stuff if we could capture a significant amount of
21:35
Speaker 1: that power that the sun puts out, even an insignificant amount. Yeah, yeah,
21:41
Speaker 1: you'd keep Iggy Pop going for like another hundred years.
21:46
Speaker 1: Uh So, like you said that, the idea behind the
21:49
Speaker 1: Diceon sphere is this structure. He originally proposed a hollow
21:54
Speaker 1: sphere and kind of referred to it as a shell. Um,
21:59
Speaker 1: but I think now or I think he went on
22:02
Speaker 1: to to make it a solid sphere. He so he
22:06
Speaker 1: actually said he was really, um, what's the opposite of clear? Take? Yeah,
22:14
Speaker 1: I guess a little convoluted. He he didn't really go
22:17
Speaker 1: to the trouble of spelling out because again, remember this
22:19
Speaker 1: is a thought experiment that had to do with finding aliens,
22:23
Speaker 1: not an engineering schematic. So he used some very it
22:26
Speaker 1: was vague. That was what I was looking for. He
22:28
Speaker 1: was using some vague words were like wait, what what
22:31
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? What is this sphere? Is it?
22:34
Speaker 1: Is it? Cohesive. Is it like a solid body? Is
22:37
Speaker 1: it hollow in the middle? What's going on? And he
22:39
Speaker 1: came back and said in a letter a follow up,
22:42
Speaker 1: he said, no, no, no, like, there's there's no way
22:44
Speaker 1: you could build something that would go around our sun.
22:48
Speaker 1: That would be a solid body that was hollow in
22:51
Speaker 1: the middle. Like, it couldn't be a cohesive hole because
22:54
Speaker 1: the rotational forces, the sheer forces, and the gravitational forces
22:59
Speaker 1: acting on it, which just obliterate it immediately. Like it's
23:03
Speaker 1: it just be mechanically impossible to make it like that.
23:06
Speaker 1: So he said, so maybe you would make something like
23:08
Speaker 1: a bubble or a swarm or something like that. Yeah,
23:13
Speaker 1: And he said in the letter, I've been closed some
23:15
Speaker 1: blotter acid. Put it on your tongue. You're gonna love this.
23:19
Speaker 1: It's dynamite, and call me in an hour. Might make
23:22
Speaker 1: a little more sense. Uh yeah. Our own article points
23:26
Speaker 1: out that one of the first downsides, obviously, if you
23:28
Speaker 1: surround the sun completely, is that sunlight has I mean,
23:34
Speaker 1: I know we'd be harnessing that energy, but sunlight provides
23:37
Speaker 1: a lot more than just energy. Oh yeah, like it
23:42
Speaker 1: makes us happy. Yeah. People write entire songs about how
23:45
Speaker 1: sunshine makes you happy, Like John Denver, did you know
23:49
Speaker 1: that was just on the shoulders. It would be a
23:52
Speaker 1: global bummer if somebody enclosed the Sun. That's like super
23:55
Speaker 1: villain kind of stuff, right, Yeah, Okay, so that's a problem.
23:59
Speaker 1: Another problem, though, is that if you're going to build
24:02
Speaker 1: something like this, and and Dyson even suggested the size
24:05
Speaker 1: of it. He was saying it would need to have
24:07
Speaker 1: a radius, So a radius, not even a diameter half
24:10
Speaker 1: of the diameter, a radius that was two times the
24:14
Speaker 1: distance of the Earth to the Sun. So this thing
24:17
Speaker 1: would be massive, which means that it would also enclose
24:21
Speaker 1: the Earth too, right, Like he wasn't proposing you just
24:25
Speaker 1: go up and create this tight ball around the Sun,
24:29
Speaker 1: Like it would be much further spread out, and it
24:31
Speaker 1: would actually encompass the Earth's orbit within it. Oh, so
24:35
Speaker 1: it would be like this, this is mine. It belongs
24:39
Speaker 1: to the Earth and no one else and can get
24:41
Speaker 1: any sun. Yeah, it would. It would block off the
24:44
Speaker 1: stuff outside of two times the distance of the Earth's orbit.
24:48
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of planets out there that would
24:50
Speaker 1: would get the old screw job. But but but the
24:55
Speaker 1: ones inside twice the distance of Earth's orbit would really
24:59
Speaker 1: benefit from it. That's very selfish. Yeah. But the other
25:02
Speaker 1: problem is too Chuck, is I imagine it would things
25:05
Speaker 1: would get pretty hot, Yeah, pretty quickly inside this thing,
25:09
Speaker 1: So the Earth would be destroyed. Yes, he and to
25:14
Speaker 1: get around this, and a lot of people I don't
25:16
Speaker 1: think got it immediately. He said, Well, you just live
25:21
Speaker 1: inside the Dyson's fear like, like in the outer shell
25:24
Speaker 1: of it. Oh, sure, make it habitable, right, Well that
25:29
Speaker 1: makes sense, but what you were saying about just the
25:32
Speaker 1: sheer size of it there, There literally aren't enough raw
25:34
Speaker 1: materials on our entire planet to make something this big.
25:39
Speaker 1: In fact, in our in our entire solar system, there
25:42
Speaker 1: probably aren't enough raw materials to make a structure like
25:44
Speaker 1: this and not and not still try to inhabit it.
25:49
Speaker 1: There's just no way. Um. Some people say, though in
25:53
Speaker 1: in Freeman himself, I keep on going to call him Freeman,
25:56
Speaker 1: like that's his last name, but I just end up
25:59
Speaker 1: sounding like I know him on a first name base.
26:02
Speaker 1: He he was saying, Um, you might be able to
26:05
Speaker 1: build something like this by disassembling Jupiter. Well that was
26:10
Speaker 1: his suggestion. Yeah, he said, disassembled Jupiter and uh, put
26:15
Speaker 1: it back together, and you could build a dicen sphere
26:21
Speaker 1: um that had the radius twice the distance from the
26:26
Speaker 1: Earth to the Sun and make a solar array of it.
26:29
Speaker 1: Must have been some good acid. Ye, good for him,
26:33
Speaker 1: all right. So I think we're both in agreement, and
26:36
Speaker 1: most people are in agreement that this sphere idea is
26:40
Speaker 1: not at all tangible, not as like a cohesive whole. No,
26:45
Speaker 1: like it just remains in the realm of thought experiment.
26:47
Speaker 1: So why bother. Oh, well, that's the interesting thing to me.
26:53
Speaker 1: It basically is kind of like he meant it as
26:56
Speaker 1: a thought experiment, it's been brought out of the realm
27:00
Speaker 1: of thought experiments. And yeah, we're in no way, shape
27:03
Speaker 1: or form capable of doing this, but a lot of
27:05
Speaker 1: people have tried to figure out how to do it.
27:08
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's one of those things that
27:10
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's theoretically possible, um, but we're just
27:15
Speaker 1: it's not at our We're nowhere near that that level
27:19
Speaker 1: of capability right now. Well, I think his other ideas
27:22
Speaker 1: that he came up with, though, are are decent. Oh,
27:26
Speaker 1: like the swarm and stuff. Well, yeah, I mean, let's
27:28
Speaker 1: let's get to that. He uh he himself even said
27:31
Speaker 1: the sphere is probably not very realistic at all, So
27:34
Speaker 1: why don't we do this, Why don't we think of
27:36
Speaker 1: different machines maybe, uh, that are independent of one another,
27:40
Speaker 1: that actually circle the Sun, collect this energy and then
27:43
Speaker 1: beam it back to Earth. Right, So, so to him,
27:47
Speaker 1: his initial idea was that sphere, and then what it
27:50
Speaker 1: came to be was that the sphere was like this
27:52
Speaker 1: umbrella term for these different slightly more realistic ideas, like
27:58
Speaker 1: the swarm or the bubble. So like like, what's the swarm? Uh, well,
28:03
Speaker 1: the swarm maybe they they are in different orbits and
28:08
Speaker 1: they like the swarm, he likens it to bees, like
28:11
Speaker 1: instead of gathering pollen, they're just around the Sun, moving around,
28:15
Speaker 1: gathering energy and power. And so those might be habitable too, right,
28:20
Speaker 1: And they're like they're they're solar rays that are satellites
28:23
Speaker 1: that are moving around on independent orbits of one another.
28:26
Speaker 1: And if you and the way that they would make
28:28
Speaker 1: a dicen spear is, yeah, there's a lot of space
28:31
Speaker 1: in between them, but if you step back a few
28:34
Speaker 1: orders of magnitude further back into the other parts of
28:37
Speaker 1: the galaxy or the universe, it would appear is basically
28:41
Speaker 1: a whole sphere around the Sun. Yea, so it still
28:45
Speaker 1: falls under that category, right, Yeah, he had to keep
28:47
Speaker 1: that sphere think because of branding. He didn't want to
28:51
Speaker 1: lose that. He's like the genies out of the bottle.
28:53
Speaker 1: They're like, you really don't need it to be a sphere.
28:55
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, it's got to be a sphere. Uh.
28:58
Speaker 1: So those satellites are actually they would be called statites. Well, no,
29:04
Speaker 1: if they were the bubble, they would be statites. This
29:06
Speaker 1: guy's got it wrong. Oh really, I thought the solar
29:11
Speaker 1: sales could be the statites. Now, So the what I
29:16
Speaker 1: saw the difference between the swarm and the bubble was
29:20
Speaker 1: that the swarm has the satellites in orbit around the
29:23
Speaker 1: star and they're they're in their own orbits, not interacting
29:26
Speaker 1: with each other. A bubble is where the satellites are
29:31
Speaker 1: in a fixed position relative to the star. So those
29:34
Speaker 1: are the statites, right, So they're just kind of hovering
29:37
Speaker 1: outside of the star um not in orbit, just kind
29:42
Speaker 1: of hovering instead. And then those are the two, and
29:46
Speaker 1: then the third are the solar sales. Correct, Well, you
29:49
Speaker 1: can make a solar sale, or you can make any
29:51
Speaker 1: of them with solar sales, and I don't know where
29:53
Speaker 1: that guy got that. Yeah, do we do a whole
29:55
Speaker 1: episode on solar sales? Yeah? So, I mean it makes
29:59
Speaker 1: sense if you a bunch of these solar sales orbiting
30:02
Speaker 1: the Sun, Uh, you might think that you could harness
30:06
Speaker 1: the power and send it back to Earth some way,
30:08
Speaker 1: right exactly, And like that's that's like you could use
30:12
Speaker 1: that with with with any of these like whether it's
30:15
Speaker 1: a bubble, whether it's a swarm, whatever you're doing. Um,
30:19
Speaker 1: And if you, like you said a second ago, made
30:22
Speaker 1: them habitable, then all of a sudden you have a
30:25
Speaker 1: recipe for survival for the human race if Earth ever
30:29
Speaker 1: becomes untenable. Right, we can't tear a four mars. We
30:32
Speaker 1: can go live on these things. And and when we
30:34
Speaker 1: think about living out in space, my brain immediately goes
30:37
Speaker 1: to like the cramped, tiny tin can conditions of the
30:41
Speaker 1: I S s. These things don't need to be like that.
30:44
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're creating dicense fears, we're gonna be
30:46
Speaker 1: advanced enough that we could build some really looks um
30:51
Speaker 1: satellites and stats heights as solar race to go hover
30:54
Speaker 1: or orbit around the Sun. Right, so they could be huge,
30:58
Speaker 1: so so big in fact that that Dyson was saying this,
31:03
Speaker 1: this doesn't have to be an engineering project that's carried
31:06
Speaker 1: out by a central global government that's directing the whole thing.
31:11
Speaker 1: That as our energy consumption and energy needs continue, nations
31:16
Speaker 1: could take it upon themselves individually to create these solar
31:20
Speaker 1: sales that are habitable, put them into orbit independently, and
31:24
Speaker 1: just through the desire to preserve one's own life, would
31:28
Speaker 1: make sure that their orbit wasn't gonna intersect with somebody
31:31
Speaker 1: else's orbit. He was already up there, and just organically
31:34
Speaker 1: a dycen's fear in the form of a swarm or
31:37
Speaker 1: a bubble could form on its own, just by self
31:40
Speaker 1: interested nations developing this technology basically independent of one another.
31:47
Speaker 1: I don't know, I was he had some far far
31:51
Speaker 1: thinking thoughts, far thinking, I don't have this. Uh, should
31:57
Speaker 1: we take another break? I think so right, we'll do
32:00
Speaker 1: that and we'll wrap it up a little bit with
32:02
Speaker 1: how to get this energy back to the home planet. Alright,
32:31
Speaker 1: So earlier you talked about dismantling Jupiter with a socket
32:36
Speaker 1: set a couple of screwdrivers. Uh. Mercury is another planet
32:42
Speaker 1: that people have talked about as potentially harvesting. Um. The
32:46
Speaker 1: good thing about mercury couple of things. One is that
32:49
Speaker 1: it is near the sun. Yeah, so who needs it already? Yeah,
32:54
Speaker 1: so it would make it um proximity wise, it makes
32:56
Speaker 1: a little bit of sense. And uh, I think this.
33:00
Speaker 1: Oxford University physicists Stewart Armstrong is who proposed this, And um.
33:05
Speaker 1: One of the other great things about mercury is it
33:07
Speaker 1: has a lot of great raw materials, namely iron, that
33:11
Speaker 1: we could use. And he he actually suggested that we
33:15
Speaker 1: could disassemble mercury fully in basically what amounted to a
33:20
Speaker 1: forty year stretch thirty days. I could do it right exactly.
33:25
Speaker 1: If a contractor tells you can take mercury apart in
33:28
Speaker 1: thirty days, don't trust him, agreed. Um, No, this was
33:32
Speaker 1: this was in basically four ten year stretches combined equals
33:37
Speaker 1: forty years. Obviously, but um, I think his point. Armstrong's
33:41
Speaker 1: point was that you don't have to disassemble mercury as
33:44
Speaker 1: a whole and and wait until it's fully disassembled to
33:47
Speaker 1: put it together into dice and to start creating a dicensphere.
33:51
Speaker 1: You can disassemble and and then start reassembling as you go,
33:55
Speaker 1: and once you start getting one bit of it online,
33:58
Speaker 1: it's gonna help power and create better efficiency to harvest
34:03
Speaker 1: and reassemble mercury the rest of mercury, you know, like
34:07
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. And not only that, but
34:10
Speaker 1: you could use that energy all of a sudden, you could.
34:13
Speaker 1: That would be super computing like you've never seen. Uh,
34:16
Speaker 1: space travel would get faster. Um, like all these technologies
34:20
Speaker 1: that we can't even like think about yet would be
34:23
Speaker 1: growing at exponential rates, right, And I mean that's the point,
34:26
Speaker 1: like when you're like, well, what would we do with
34:28
Speaker 1: with you know, all of this energy every second coming
34:32
Speaker 1: off of the sun. Who knows? We we we just
34:36
Speaker 1: we cannot conceive of the stuff we could do with
34:38
Speaker 1: that amount of energy yet. But I guarantee it's not
34:41
Speaker 1: going to be you know, using a few like charging
34:45
Speaker 1: our smartphones. It should be for some pretty neat stuff,
34:48
Speaker 1: I guess. Uh. So the other cool idea is that, um,
34:54
Speaker 1: holy cow, how many people would have to to take
34:58
Speaker 1: part in this kind of a project, just literally the
35:01
Speaker 1: labor force you would need. And um, I think Armstrong
35:05
Speaker 1: is the one who said, well you could use robots actually, uh,
35:10
Speaker 1: and with the same idea that once you get some
35:12
Speaker 1: of these robots going, uh, if they could self replicate
35:16
Speaker 1: and build themselves, then you can just kind of sit
35:19
Speaker 1: back and watch the paint dry on earth and all
35:22
Speaker 1: these robots are up there just building themselves and working
35:26
Speaker 1: and working, uh and doing everything for you exactly. And
35:30
Speaker 1: that's why that was his I don't know if it
35:33
Speaker 1: was his point. Someone's point along the way is that
35:37
Speaker 1: when you start that, when you build that first license fear,
35:40
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's just going to keep going
35:42
Speaker 1: and going and going faster. It's going to spread at
35:44
Speaker 1: an exponential rate. So you would go from a type
35:47
Speaker 1: two civilization to a type three civilization pretty quickly. And
35:50
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, you would also if if
35:53
Speaker 1: this project was carried up by a centralized government, it
35:55
Speaker 1: would spread so quickly and so far uh in such
35:59
Speaker 1: a relatively short amount of time, something like going from
36:03
Speaker 1: that first dicense fhere to um colonizing an entire galaxy
36:08
Speaker 1: in something like a million years, that even if it
36:11
Speaker 1: was a centralized government involved at the beginning, they would
36:14
Speaker 1: very quickly lose control of the colonies because they'd be
36:16
Speaker 1: so spread out and there'll be so many of them
36:19
Speaker 1: that they would just basically become self sufficient and spread
36:21
Speaker 1: over the galaxy. So the reason this is noteworthy is
36:26
Speaker 1: that if you found one Dicens fear, you would probably
36:31
Speaker 1: find millions or billions or trillions of them in in
36:36
Speaker 1: just an one section of the universe. Right, You're not
36:39
Speaker 1: you You probably are not going to find just one
36:42
Speaker 1: Dicense fear. You're going to find a dison galaxy, a
36:46
Speaker 1: type three civilization. And that's what they're looking for by
36:51
Speaker 1: sifting through UM some of these old sky surveys, and
36:54
Speaker 1: they found a couple of of candidates. Actually in the
36:57
Speaker 1: last year or so, I think there's a there's a
37:01
Speaker 1: couple of surveys that have found stars and they have
37:05
Speaker 1: like typical star names. One is A K I C
37:09
Speaker 1: eight four six to eight five two, which is a
37:13
Speaker 1: sexy name, and then the other is E P I C,
37:17
Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure they call EPIC two oh four
37:20
Speaker 1: to eight nine one six right, And Epic was discovered
37:26
Speaker 1: by the Kepler spacecraft in two fourteen. And the reason
37:29
Speaker 1: these things are noteworthy is because um there is some
37:33
Speaker 1: sort of weird transit uh pattern where the light dims
37:40
Speaker 1: UM I guess randomly or not necessarily on some sort
37:45
Speaker 1: of set schedule um around these stars. And you would say, well,
37:50
Speaker 1: that's probably just a planet or something coming in between it. Well, yes,
37:53
Speaker 1: they thought about that already. Um. And normally a star
37:57
Speaker 1: will dim by about one percent when a planet sized
38:01
Speaker 1: object comes in between you, the observer and that planet.
38:06
Speaker 1: These things are dipping on the in the case of
38:09
Speaker 1: K I C Star and in the case of the
38:14
Speaker 1: epics star sixty five. Right, Okay, they have no idea
38:21
Speaker 1: what could be massive enough to dim those two stars
38:25
Speaker 1: that much. They haven't encountered it before. There's a couple
38:28
Speaker 1: of theories. One of them said, a swarm of comets.
38:31
Speaker 1: Somebody else said, well, you could very easily go from
38:34
Speaker 1: a swarm of comets to a swarm of solar arrays.
38:37
Speaker 1: So maybe these are evidence of Dyson's fears. Yeah, I
38:42
Speaker 1: mean it's possible. Well, you know, it's kind of fun
38:47
Speaker 1: to talk about robots, robots building themselves and them doing
38:51
Speaker 1: all this work up there. Uh. One of the big
38:54
Speaker 1: problems is we're not nearly I mean, we have robot
38:56
Speaker 1: technology now, but nothing close to that at the present. UM.
39:01
Speaker 1: And as this article points out, that you would need
39:06
Speaker 1: like it would have to be so advanced these these
39:08
Speaker 1: robots would have to be operating without fail up there
39:12
Speaker 1: because they would be by themselves or be able to
39:15
Speaker 1: fix themselves and fix problems, like the intelligence would need
39:20
Speaker 1: to be so far advanced, like we can't even imagine
39:23
Speaker 1: what that would be like. No, but I mean, even
39:27
Speaker 1: if Michio Kaku is off by a hundred or two
39:30
Speaker 1: hundred or five hundred years, that's not that far off. Like,
39:33
Speaker 1: if we can harness all the energy on Earth, we
39:36
Speaker 1: should very quickly and improve as far as our technology
39:40
Speaker 1: is concerned. So who knows, Maybe maybe those robots aren't
39:44
Speaker 1: that far off, you know. Um. One other thing that
39:48
Speaker 1: that I saw from this, though, was when H. Freeman
39:51
Speaker 1: Dyson was talking about dissembling Jupiter, Chuck. He said that
39:56
Speaker 1: it should take I don't know, roughly eight hundred years
39:59
Speaker 1: worth of the Sun's energy output to disassemble and reassemble Jupiter. Well,
40:03
Speaker 1: that's not bad, but do you remember how much comes
40:06
Speaker 1: out of the Sun in a second. We're like, whoa,
40:09
Speaker 1: you know, that's so much. We would need eight hundred
40:11
Speaker 1: years worth of that to disassemble and reassemble Jupiter. So
40:16
Speaker 1: we we like, not only do we not have the
40:21
Speaker 1: capability of building as dicens fear. We don't even have
40:24
Speaker 1: the capability of disassembling Jupiter. We just don't have any
40:28
Speaker 1: way to harness that energy, which creates this kind of
40:31
Speaker 1: um chicken or egg dilemma, Like we almost need a
40:34
Speaker 1: dicens fear to create a dicense fhere at this point,
40:38
Speaker 1: somewhere Freeman Dison is laughing on acid somewhere in New Jersey. Um.
40:44
Speaker 1: One of the other big issues is, Okay, let's say
40:46
Speaker 1: that you could even do something like this and harness
40:48
Speaker 1: this energy. UM to get it to Earth is another
40:52
Speaker 1: big problem, UM, if we want to make it actually
40:55
Speaker 1: actually usable. Um. Some people said we could laser it over.
41:00
Speaker 1: But the problems with laser beams is after about a mile,
41:03
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose a lot of uh efficiency with it,
41:07
Speaker 1: So good luck with that. Microwaves have been floated out there.
41:11
Speaker 1: But microwaves, even though they're more effective longer farther out
41:15
Speaker 1: than lasers, UM, you're still limited to about a hundred miles,
41:19
Speaker 1: which will do us no good. Right, So what's the answer.
41:24
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't have one either. I mean,
41:26
Speaker 1: I guess one of the easy ones is well, just
41:28
Speaker 1: inhabit the solar rays go inhabit the dison spear stuff.
41:33
Speaker 1: Being so precious about living on Earth. Um, which makes sense.
41:38
Speaker 1: But I like living on Earth. Yeah, but would an
41:42
Speaker 1: Earth eight hundred years from now be worth living on? Uh?
41:47
Speaker 1: It depends, Chuck. Will it be skipping skipping to school
41:52
Speaker 1: and skinning knees and spelling bees and all that still?
41:55
Speaker 1: Because if so, yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
42:00
Speaker 1: It's another Simpsons reference. He's it's a one where Principal
42:05
Speaker 1: Skinner came back, the real principal Skinner and he's like,
42:08
Speaker 1: he goes, if if you think skinning knees and spelling
42:13
Speaker 1: bees or corny, well, then mr Corny up. That's right.
42:17
Speaker 1: That's why, uh, I would like to introduce their principal Skinner,
42:21
Speaker 1: Principal Skimore Skinner Armontaine's area. Um, there's one other thing.
42:29
Speaker 1: You got anything else? I got nothing else. I got
42:31
Speaker 1: one more thing. So there's that whole idea that Dyson
42:34
Speaker 1: came up with to search the skies for this this
42:39
Speaker 1: imprint where there's a lot of infrared radiation but no
42:41
Speaker 1: visible light. There's a problem with that because this guy
42:45
Speaker 1: came along. His name was Robert Bradberry's a futurist. I
42:48
Speaker 1: think maybe a science fiction writer. No, Robert, his little
42:53
Speaker 1: little brother. Um Robert Bradberry said, well, you know what,
42:57
Speaker 1: if you really wanted to, um, make these license fear
43:00
Speaker 1: is efficient, you'd make them in like the same manner
43:03
Speaker 1: that those Russian nesting dolls are made Troishka, Right, So
43:08
Speaker 1: you'd have the the internal sphere and then outer spheres
43:12
Speaker 1: going around and catching all that lost heat energy and
43:16
Speaker 1: turning it into usable power, which is awesome because you'd
43:20
Speaker 1: have basically a hundred percent efficiency as far as the
43:23
Speaker 1: dicense fear was concerned. But if you're looking at the stars,
43:26
Speaker 1: you would see nothing because not only would there not
43:29
Speaker 1: be visible light, there also wouldn't be any infrared radiation.
43:33
Speaker 1: And Freeman Dyson just hung his head, went into his
43:36
Speaker 1: room and shut the door and laid down on his
43:38
Speaker 1: bed for a while. The end. Yeah. Uh, Well, if
43:44
Speaker 1: you want to know more about dicens fears, you can
43:45
Speaker 1: start with this article on how stuff works dot com
43:49
Speaker 1: by typing dicens fear into the search bar how stuff works.
43:53
Speaker 1: As I said, and since I said how stuff works twice,
43:56
Speaker 1: that means it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna
44:00
Speaker 1: call this uh we helped a lady out. Um. Hey, guys,
44:06
Speaker 1: I hope this email finds you well. Been listening for
44:08
Speaker 1: only a short time, but it becomes so addicted. I've
44:11
Speaker 1: already being about half of your episodes offered on Spotify.
44:16
Speaker 1: I think she meant page we uh were on Spotify,
44:20
Speaker 1: by the way, and you can being us all you
44:22
Speaker 1: want from that platform. Um. Like many others, I absolutely
44:27
Speaker 1: adore your show. I came across the podcast after a
44:30
Speaker 1: very upsetting event in my life save you the SOB
44:33
Speaker 1: story and just say I was going through intense grief.
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Speaker 1: raunchy humor that gave me a thirst for learning and
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Speaker 1: a new purpose in life. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Waitnue,
44:46
Speaker 1: do we have raunchy humor? I didn't realize that we.
44:50
Speaker 1: I think she picks up on the that's like Cheat
44:52
Speaker 1: and Chong the sideways comments. We're like the new Cheat
44:55
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45:58
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