Latest / Honey Badger Radio / How to not help men recover from female-perpetrated abuse | HBR Talk 273

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How to not help men recover from female-perpetrated abuse | HBR Talk 273 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Hello, Ian, Welcome to HBr Talk two seventy three, how to Not
• 0:05
  Help Men Recover from female perpetrated Abuse. I'm your host, Hannah Wallen,
• 0:10
  here with nonsense annihilator Lauren Brooks and the personification of perceptivity Mike Stevenson and that
• 0:17
  adorable specter of death prim Reaper. Tonight we're going to read the next prevailing
• 0:25
  feminist narrative on the most important thing about male abuse victim's recovery process. But
• 0:33
  before we get into that, we gotta do what we gotta do. As
• 0:38
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  feed the Badger dot com in the dropdown menu at the top of the page.
• 1:42
  Before we go over the article, I just want to show you the
• 1:46
  authors about page because there is something now you need to understand about this author.
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  This isn't just some randos extreme but like inconsequential opinion, this is some
• 1:59
  mainstream bullshit. He uh, the guy's name is Aria or Area. I
• 2:06
  think it's Aria. No, it's probably Area because he's a guy, but
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  and Aria is usually a girl's name. But Baker and his degree is unfamiliar
• 2:20
  m phil. So this is probably a master's in master's philosophy education or something
• 2:25
  like that. But when you get down past like the first paragraph where he
• 2:34
  talks about being nationally recognized, Baker's advocacy and public scholarship have been featured in
• 2:42
  New York Times, The Washington Post, Teen Vogue, Huffington Post, Education
• 2:46
  Post, Vice, BuzzFeed. I don't know why anybody would brag about BuzzFeed.
• 2:51
  But the you know, the Tennessee and Essence Magazine, Native Son Now
• 2:58
  and The Mighty. So you have y's like a bunch of mainstream press.
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  And then you say, I think the fact that they're including things like BuzzFeed
• 3:08
  and there just means they're reaching for whatever they can find. Yeah, But
• 3:13
  at the same time, like you're gonna remember, the publication that started the
• 3:23
  Trump Russia conspiracy theory was BuzzFeed, and people took it seriously. So there
• 3:30
  are people that take BuzzFeed seriously. I don't, I guess. So it
• 3:35
  just seems kind of like having on your resume. Yeah, I got a
• 3:37
  Michelin star and I also worked at McDonald I know what, you know,
• 3:44
  started maybe saying you started out at McDonald's and then worked your way up to
• 3:47
  it that geez, you know, Yeah, but the Washington Post and you
• 3:53
  know like that, that is very main mainstream. The New York Times teen
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  Vogue is feminist propaganda for teen girls. I can't believe that's even still in
• 4:04
  publication. Oh, yeah, they all are. Seventeen magazine. I think
• 4:08
  Sassy Magazine is still in publication, like all those you know that that I
• 4:13
  used to walk past to get the puzzle books to the CHRISTA. Grahams and
• 4:18
  the Crosswords. Yes, uh those are cool. They still sell those two
• 4:24
  those little penny press where you you know, you have like fifty different types
• 4:27
  of puzzles in the book. But but yeah, then there's his list of
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  professional work. The National Suicide Prevention Hotline or a lifeline, the Trevor Project,
• 4:39
  another propaganda thing, a Los Angeles LGBT Center, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia's
• 4:46
  Center for Autism Research. That's gonna be gonna be great for autistic people.
• 4:54
  Considering the School District of Philadelphia's Office of Prevention and Intervention. What they're preventing
• 5:01
  and intervening in is not listed here, so it could be anything. The
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  Racial Empowerment Collective yep, the EASEL that is ecological approaches to social emotional learning.
• 5:18
  So I know Brian's gone over the social emotional learning buzzword and how it's
• 5:25
  used today. It used to be social emotional learning. Was this right?
• 5:32
  Uh? Little brother, bites, big sister. This this happened in my
• 5:35
  household. My little brother bit me when I was a kid. He was
• 5:38
  he was very young. We were fighting over some toy and he bit me
• 5:41
  and my mom my mom was like, don't bite Hannah. That hurts,
• 5:44
  and he just looked at her like she was nuts. He's, no,
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  it didn't. You know, well it didn't hurt him. So he was
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  young enough to not understand that I was a separate person from him, and
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  if you know, I could feel something that he didn't feel. So my
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  mom very gently closed her teeth on his arm and pressed a little bit,
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  and he's he just was shocked. How mommy, that hurts and it just
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  She's like, well, it didn't hurt me, you know. And and
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  he immediately started figuring out and wait a minute, if I do things to
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  people, they might feel something I didn't, you know, Like he put
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  two and two together right away. And the social emotional learning was he developed
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  a sense of other people's individuality and an emotional reaction to you know, he
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  immediately understood that he had caused pain, and he felt guilt and he had
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  you know, remorse and never did it again, you know, told me
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  he was sorry, and you know, I then I got a hug and
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  like biting as something every every uh kid goes through at some point and they
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  all have to learn that. Like, that's what social emotional learning. When
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  I was in college and I was I took early childhood development, that's the
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  kind of thing that was described in it, like understanding the people around you,
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  having an emotional connection to your personal agency in regard to your interactions with
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  those people. Now it's it's all about being Your boundaries are not important,
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  but other people's are. Uh, you're the bad guy in every you know,
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  interaction and so on, if you are a boy, if you are
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  white, if you are able bodied. So it's all progressive stack related now
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  and it's no longer an understanding of how children develop and what maturity looks like,
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  and functional maturity in particular. Now it's about controlling people. They've completely
• 7:59
  destroyed the concept. So that's he's part of that that last. So basically,
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  social emotions are something that, as we ordinarily understand, children don't fully
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  appreciate it until they have a theory of mind around around the edge of five
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  five or six. But in modern dare say woke parlance, it's generally considered
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  not something we need to teach to children, but something we need to teach
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  white male, cisgendered children. If you can rain around that series of adjectives,
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  yes, basically and not like it's it's also social emotional. When your
• 8:45
  best friend has been studying really hard for a test and they've been getting seasoned
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  ds for the for the whole quarter, but this test that you helped them
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  study for they got an A and you are ecstatic because of their success their
• 9:00
  happiness, and so you have that sympathetic happiness and it's your success too because
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  that's your best friend and you did what you couldn't help them, and they
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  they abandoned that, like you're not supposed to take joy from anything you do
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  for other people. You owe it to them, Like that's that's so they've
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  really destroyed this concept. Like I've been looking into this more and more and
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  it has been basically turned on its side and forced to fit into communist propaganda.
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  It's it's completely when when you hear people describe social emotional learning, now
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  they're not talking about classic psychological term, they're talking about political propaganda. He's
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  also involved with Mental Health America and co authored the City of Houston's inaugural public
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  survey on mental health. Then he goes on to describe him in terms of
• 10:05
  scholarship, what his philosophies are and everything. And here we have let's see
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  Baker's interest in scholarship is grounded in qualitative research methodologies, which are partnership oriented.
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  Doesn't sound bad at first, humanizing, Okay, critically conscious. That's
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  where we start getting into critical or critical gender theory, right and attentive to
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  the traditionally extractive and paternalistic power dynamics between minoritized, underserved communities and academic research
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  institutions. Wow, so we just like go head first into communism again,
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  and feminist communism in particular. It's a good thing that we're all getting our
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  healthy serving of vegetables in that word salad today. Like at the beginning,
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  it almost makes him, you know, just sound completely innocent. Qualitative research
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  methodologies are supposed to be about making sure that your research isn't jumping to conclusions
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  in an irrational factor, that you're not failing to consider, you know,
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  alternative possibilities to what you're concluding. You're not failing to make sure that you
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  have ironclad testing and survey methods and so on, which in the social sciences.
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  They they talk about a lot but don't perform very well most of the
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  time. But the rest of that, you know, like the only thing
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  that is remotely good sounding, honestly, is the humanizing bit. And I
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  don't believe that with it being connected to the rest of that, that it
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  means the same thing to him as it means when you know, I think
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  about it. No way, So oh, go ahead, No, I
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  was just agreeing with you. There's no way that he that his his idea
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  of humanizing is the same as yours. Absolutely. Then then then he goes
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  on to academia. Baker collaborates with social movements and grass roots organizers, which
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  is just vague, right. K twelve schools. K twelve schools is elementary
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  schools and high schools, junior highs, middle schools, So he's talking about
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  the public school system. They're more likely than not because there's also a K
• 12:39
  K twelve homeschooling program, but I doubt that people using homeschooling have ever heard
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  of this guy. Nonprofit organizations, socially responsible corporations, so the ESG folks,
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  as well as faith communities churches, so he has involvement. His fingers
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  are in every little pie he can dip them into. Right, and then
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  we get into the communist activist language again, community based education, community centered
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  research. Right. When they talk about that, they're not talking about serving
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  the community. They're talking about controlling the community. So we have other organizations.
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  He's been involved with the American Public Health Association, National Partnership for Education
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  Access, the African American Male Initiative, the New York Urban League, Young
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  Professionals, and the First People's Fund, which I'm not sure that that kind
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  of sounds communistic, just because they has people's in it, and that's often
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  used by communists to make it themselves sound well, to humanize themselves. There's
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  something called natal in ata l and uh Pride in the Pews, so an
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  organization intended to center homosexuality in the church. He yeah, that tells me.
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  That tells me a lot about him. Yeah. So he's he's got
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  his fingers in a lot of different pies. And and then at the end,
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  the cherry on top is he's received, i know, the Award for
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  Excellence in Promoting Diversity Inclusion from the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education.
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  So there you go. And also his whole profile uses. They then pronouns,
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  I'm not doing that. So just just so you know what we're looking
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  at here, and we're not. This is not just some rando like I
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  said, this is some mainstream bullshit here. This is this is a soldier
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  in the social justice war telling his cohorts this is our next weapon against men.
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  And and now that we know what he does in his day daily life,
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  I kind of want to know what they then gets up to at night.
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  I don't, I really don't, I don't anybody. They then pronounced,
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  I do not want to know what they do at night, just just
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  that alone, you know, like I'm I'm as much a fan of porn
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  as the next person, but not not. They then pronounced like that that
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  totally kills it for me, right there. Yeah, so yeah, that
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  said. So. The title of the article says it all male survivors of
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  abuse by women can heal without misogyny. I didn't even read the article before
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  I picked it for the show. Oh god, I've read it. Yeah,
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  it's horrible. It's it's I can't even yeah, well we'll just we'll
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  get we'll get into it. It's it's brutal, even just the first,
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  I mean, even the title has got enough, but even just the the
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  taglines are intolerable. It's ridiculous. And I did read it after I picked
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  it, but it's just like, oh, we're doing this, christ I
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  just read the byeline for the first time and I'm already sufficiently done with this,
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  dude. Come oh god. Well see it's it's funny because he talks
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  about how bias can prevent us from comprehending men as victims and women as perpetrators,
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  and then like we're in the key points is like a whole bunch of
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  bias, and like even the titles whole bunch of bias. And it's like,
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  oh my god, learn what biases. This is the article that never
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  stops. So our key points here, lacking the language to unpack and articulate
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  their pain can lead male survivors of abuse to scapegoat women. Oh my god.
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  Okay, I'm sorry. I've got to jump in here because you know,
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  like I, as as most of you know, like I've been working
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  as a registered provisional psychologist with male clients now and many of those include male
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  victims of domestic abuse, and you know, this is so ridiculously out of
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  touch this point, Like it's like, I very much doubt that this guy
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  has ever spoken to a male victim of domestic abuse, because if he had,
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  you know, like they don't have that problem. They do not have
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  that problem whatsoever. You know. They they're just you know, very often
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  not explaining their pain, probably in a way that these guys are at all
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  familiar with, because I have never had a problem with any male victims of
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  domestic abuse that I have spoken to, and there has been no challenge with
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  with getting them to express the pains that they're going through, and it's often
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  very deep and very complex, and so I don't know what kind of one
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  dimensional, fakey cardboard cutout this guy's been talking to, but just get out
• 18:37
  of my face with this, yeah, because like, if you know,
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  furthermore, I have never ever heard any of them scapegoating women as though like
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  all women are the problem. In fact, most of them will bend over
• 18:52
  backwards to like minimize the abuse from their female partners or you know, try
• 18:59
  and excuse it in some way, and they'll talk about how you know,
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  they must have done something wrong to deserve it, like it's it's just out
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  of touch in so many different ways, it's it's difficult to summarize it.
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  It is, I can from my experience with guys that I've known that have
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  been abused, you know, And I'm not I'm not a therapist. So
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  I'm the friend that they talk to when they can't talk to the other guys
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  about something. And so sometimes they will and sometimes they won't, you know,
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  sometimes they'll talk to their buddies and sometimes this is just not something they
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  want their buddies to know happened. And I've been that friend for a lot
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  of guys. Actually, once I got comfortable hearing very difficult things about people
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  suffering, you know, because it is it is hard to it can rip
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  your hard out sometimes and it's hard to not just be heartbroken all the time
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  when you know, terrible things have happened to somebody that you care about a
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  lot, right, that you your buddies with, that you hang out with,
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  play video games with, you know, play Dungeons and Dragons with,
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  and that kind of thing, and they can explain what happened to them.
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  Some guys are very they'll they'll go two different directions with it, in opposite
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  directions with it. Some guys are very careful not to bad mouth their abuser
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  because they've been raised never to say nasty things about women, and the guys
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  that are the opposite that will, you know, be perfectly happy to hold
• 20:45
  her abuser fully accountable. They'll use terms to describe her, like, you
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  know, that bitch did this to me, that horror did this to me,
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  if she cheated on him in the process, if that was part of
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  the abuse, you know, no holds hard. You know, whatever terms
• 21:02
  feminists will call misogynistic, they'll use them, and they'll differentiate between that cruel
• 21:08
  and sadistic person that hurt them and every other woman they know. They still
• 21:15
  talk about other women as friends, family members, loved ones in terms of,
• 21:23
  you know, their character and their friendship and their closeness. But a
• 21:30
  lot of people if you call one woman a bitch and you're a man,
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  a lot of people extrapolate that into you think all women are bitches, you
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  hate all women, you're a misogynist. It's this really weird defensiveness around it.
• 21:48
  It's it's like there's a difference between insulting one person and being a misogynist.
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  There's a world of difference, and it's it's bizarre how many people don't
• 22:00
  seem to understand that distinction. Yeah, I think it's pretty excusable for someone
• 22:07
  to hate a person that poured boiling water on them in their sleep. Yeah,
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  you think. Or in the case of one of my friends, she
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  threw cast iron skillets at him. Oh Jesus, like, she picked up
• 22:25
  light fixtures and threw them like lamps, desk lamps and floor lamps and threw
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  them at him. Big books, knick knacks like those, uh, ceramic
• 22:36
  knick knacks and stuff and just all kinds of stuff. And everybody else sort
• 22:42
  of treated it as a big joke because she her aim was awful, so
• 22:49
  that it was even double than Yeah. And actually that was one of the
• 22:56
  big fights, was that she dreamed he cheated on her, so she was
• 23:00
  holding it. She was sure it was a psychic dream like that the guy
• 23:08
  with two jobs and no free time cheated on her. Yeah, but about
• 23:15
  tracks yea, and and you know when it was it was the way he
• 23:22
  talked about the abuse was funny because he would just talk about it as an
• 23:25
  argument. He would minimize it so much he didn't even say a fight because
• 23:30
  he wasn't fighting back. And since she missed all the time, I mean,
• 23:37
  he had to patch walls and clean ink off the floor and all kinds
• 23:44
  of interesting things, not ink pin inc. She threw the printer at him.
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  Gosh, Lord over an email and yeah, you said like it wasn't
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  a fight, And I find that that's true most of the time, because
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  most of these guys will do anything they can to avoid not fighting back.
• 24:07
  Yeah, and you know, and he would say, it's like she's been
• 24:11
  taken over by a demon. And you know, he was describing it.
• 24:15
  He had the language to describe it. His experience of it was that his
• 24:19
  wife was two people. The one that was, you know, sweet and
• 24:26
  kind and took care of him when he was sick and all that, and
• 24:30
  then when she would have a sudden fit of rage and jealousy, she was
• 24:41
  like she was possessed by a demon. And this is not a small woman,
• 24:45
  right. She was almost six feet tall. She was an athlete in
• 24:48
  high school. And this was when I was in my early twenties. We
• 24:53
  were all in our twenties, so she wasn't old. She was still close
• 24:59
  to her high school athlet days. She wasn't weak. And uh, it's
• 25:03
  a it's a good thing. Nothing, it's a good thing. She was
• 25:06
  a crappy shot when she threw. But but yeah, he could, he's
• 25:11
  perfectly able to describe it, but he wasn't perfectly able to hold her accountable
• 25:17
  for her behavior. And that really there's men don't lack the language to unpack
• 25:22
  and articulate their pain, but a lot of men have been raised to not
• 25:29
  hold women accountable and to be the shield between women and their accountability. And
• 25:37
  and it really does that rex male victims. And then and it didn't help
• 25:44
  that a lot of our friends thought it was funny because she kind of had
• 25:48
  a little Mickey Mouse voice. She was very I don't I don't know if
• 25:52
  you guys have seen Singing in the Rain, the musical the old musical Singing
• 25:56
  in the Rain and the Bitchy Woman, the bad act in Singing in the
• 26:00
  Rain, it was a lot like that voice. But yeah, so it
• 26:07
  was just a situation where somebody like this might say lacking the language. Now
• 26:11
  they don't lack the language, but they have been trained to tolerate things they
• 26:15
  shouldn't. And it goes on. Abuse by women can go unnoticed when it
• 26:21
  primarily involves relational aggression or psychological abuse read not taken seriously, that one actually
• 26:30
  is true, and that happens both ways when their targets are male and when
• 26:36
  their targets are female. Yes, sorry, Lena Lamont is the correct the
• 26:42
  answer skeptic, she had the Lena Lamont voice, But go on, prim,
• 26:48
  I was just gonna say, you know, it's it's amazing how often
• 26:53
  like when I try and talk about like male victims of domestic abuse, people
• 26:57
  will throw up that whole Oh you know, but but women take the majority
• 27:03
  of the violent abuse, so therefore, you know, that's that's more important.
• 27:07
  And it's like, yep, let's let's just go ahead and minimize people
• 27:12
  suffering just because other people have it worse. Yeah, I mean, it's
• 27:18
  just ridiculous. On his face, it turned the tables around. If he
• 27:22
  was doing that to her, there's no way that they would be cool.
• 27:26
  What do you mean that's violent? Well, exactly right. It's like if
• 27:32
  it was finger quotes, just emotional abuse or psychological abuse, like obviously they
• 27:38
  would say, girl, you don't deserve that, get out of that house.
• 27:41
  Oh yeah, you know, like rightfully so, because nobody should be
• 27:47
  emotionally abused, because it's a shitty thing to do, and that includes when
• 27:51
  it happens to men. Yep, yep, And you know that's that's when
• 27:59
  my my husband's wife was very skilled at you know, and I could be
• 28:04
  skilled at that if I wanted to, Like, I'm very good at I
• 28:11
  hate saying good at for this because it's a terrible thing to be good at.
• 28:15
  But if I get to know somebody, I'm fully capable of finding the
• 28:21
  most vulnerable emotional point and just twisting the knife around and around and around.
• 28:29
  And it's one of the reasons why I insisted in high school on getting some
• 28:36
  kind of anger management, because that's something that if you don't have control over
• 28:41
  the capability, then you become the reason that somebody has self esteem issues for
• 28:47
  the rest of their life, or doesn't have relationships with people they should have
• 28:53
  relationships with, or doesn't go for the career that is best for them,
• 29:00
  or kills themselves. And uh never wanted to be that person, but but
• 29:07
  the X did, and she used it on all of us. My husband
• 29:14
  lived with her, they were married for like six years. She didn't quite
• 29:18
  make it to seven year itch territory before she got a seven year itch.
• 29:23
  But but yeah, she uh was horrible to him, just absolutely horrible,
• 29:33
  and I took a long time for me to be able to process, like
• 29:41
  I'm gonna help him recover from this without I'm gonna get revenge on this fucking
• 29:48
  bitch that hurt him, you know, like it had to separate those two
• 29:52
  things and just just that right, he's the same thing. Most of the
• 29:57
  people around them didn't understand what she did to him, and I don't know.
• 30:07
  I don't know if all of his friends ever did fully understand. Like
• 30:12
  everybody understood that he got healthier after they separated. Everybody understood that he seemed
• 30:18
  happier after she left him, and then even happier after we got together.
• 30:27
  But I don't know if people realize just how much of a prison she put
• 30:33
  him in. And she's another one that did the I dreamed you did this,
• 30:37
  and it's your fault that I'm angry. What is it with that?
• 30:42
  There's like an archetype of women that are just willing to go off their dreams
• 30:48
  based on yeah, absolutely nothing and then become super abusive for it. In
• 30:55
  your head that came up with this, Yeah, you ask yourself, why
• 30:57
  did you dream about this? And you know your you might just be led
• 31:03
  back to I'm very insecure in my situation, or you might be led back
• 31:08
  to I don't trust this person, and then you have to consider why you
• 31:12
  don't trust that person. And I went through that process once. I had
• 31:15
  a nightmare though one of my friends. This was back when I was awaken
• 31:21
  and I had a nightmare that one of my friends sacrificed me, like with
• 31:26
  a big knife, and I felt it. I woke up still in pain.
• 31:30
  It was really one of those And the first thing I was just like,
• 31:34
  why the hell did that come into my head? Why why did my
• 31:38
  head write that story about this friend? So I started going back and re
• 31:44
  examining, you know, do I distrust this person? What's going on?
• 31:48
  And in our friend group I was I realized I was being subjected to story
• 31:56
  after story. I didn't have a name for them at the time, but
• 31:59
  threatening and after threat narrative where I was the bad guy and I had to
• 32:05
  make up for it and she was victimized by something I had done. And
• 32:09
  most of them didn't even make sense, but people just accepted them. So
• 32:15
  she basically was sacrificing me over and over again for social cred. But I
• 32:21
  mean, and see it's funny too. Because I mean, you know,
• 32:24
  people will put so much stock in these dreams where you know, something horrible
• 32:30
  happens to them, or their loved one does something to them, you know.
• 32:35
  But then they'll have a dream that they're flying through a cloud of cotton
• 32:39
  candy with right unicorns flying around and stop and somehow those ones you know don't
• 32:45
  don't aren't given a lot of weight. Right, It's like, well,
• 32:49
  that usually means I'm hungry people, Right, I do dream about food when
• 32:53
  I'm hungry. Sh But what what I my process with that was? All
• 32:58
  right, So I'm I'm not going to be mad at this person. This
• 33:00
  is probably her nature and nobody's ever called her out on it, and I'm
• 33:04
  going to start a fight about it. I'm going to start engaging in some
• 33:07
  social self defense. And when the next I started watching for the next threat
• 33:13
  narrative, didn't realize what a borderline. I didn't know anything about borderline personality
• 33:21
  disorder at the time, nothing, So when I started defending against the threat
• 33:25
  narrative, shit hit the fan. But but that that was the approach,
• 33:31
  not yelling and screaming and blaming and shaming. Right, But if you're narcissistic,
• 33:37
  if you're insecure if you have BPD or you have some other disorder that
• 33:43
  causes similar like sometimes bipolar disorder can do this. You have a lot of
• 33:49
  insecurity with with bipolar. Sometimes you a lot of attention seeking and a lot
• 33:55
  of attention monopolizing. And when I happens, you get somebody that like gets
• 34:04
  very upset if they're not getting what they want from you. And that basically
• 34:10
  is what happened. She didn't get what she wanted from the whole group and
• 34:16
  just went ballistic and through a screaming temper tantrum, then through several email temper
• 34:22
  tantrums, then divorced her husband and moved to Texas. Now he's happily married
• 34:30
  to someone else, So there we go. Like, relational aggression abuse can
• 34:37
  be pretty terrible, but people don't talk about it as much because women do
• 34:42
  it more. Men can do it too, and there are there male abusers
• 34:45
  that do this to their female partners, and it flies under the radar just
• 34:51
  as much, I think, until it gets to the point where the woman
• 34:57
  starts showing symptoms of trauma, and then people start getting are out of there.
• 35:00
  When the man start showing symptoms of trauma, people start blaming him.
• 35:05
  Next bullet point, Advocates often forget that internalized patriarchy can manifest in women as
• 35:12
  a need for control over others, because it's not their fault. The patriarchy
• 35:17
  made me violent, Oh my god. Because because women can't just have a
• 35:23
  desire to control their partners, we have to attribute it to some kind of
• 35:29
  horrible male attribute rights. That's how powerful men are. They can control women
• 35:36
  just you know, they don't even have to think about it. It's just
• 35:39
  the men that control their actions. Oh my god, this is just the
• 35:44
  most embarrassing thing I've ever seen. You know, I read this the first
• 35:47
  time and I nearly spat out my drink. It was ridiculous. But guys,
• 35:52
  ambition is only something that men have. But but there should be just
• 35:58
  as many female CEOs as male CEOs. This almost sounds like the right up
• 36:04
  for the Barbie movie. Yeah. So now we get into the meat of
• 36:07
  the article. There are two commonly understood reasons why we fail to comprehend women's
• 36:14
  victimization of men as abuse. The point of this post is to present a
• 36:20
  third compelling reason, then unpacked the implications for professional helpers, attorneys, investigators,
• 36:28
  therapists, victims, advocates and so on who in their work may come
• 36:31
  across mail survivors of abuse by women may it's a guarantee. It is a
• 36:37
  guarantee. Even in my line of work, I have come across mail survivors
• 36:45
  of abuse by women, both among co workers and people that I have taken
• 36:52
  care of. It depends if they feel comfortable enough to disclose it, because
• 37:00
  the research shows that they've tried to disclose to some kind of support network before.
• 37:06
  And have you been treated like some kind of perpetrator. Odds are good
• 37:09
  that they're not going to feel comfortable reaching out again. Well, and a
• 37:13
  lot of a lot of times it's not because the guy tells anything. In
• 37:19
  I am currently working with intellectually disabled adults and I've also been in nurse's aid,
• 37:24
  so it's same level of medical care. Bottom wrong. You can't get
• 37:30
  any less formally educated in medicine and have a job in medicine. Then nurse's
• 37:37
  aid or direct support professional like nurse's aid courses are three weeks long. Direct
• 37:43
  support professional courses are two weeks long. So and then we have continuing education
• 37:47
  in CPR and MEDPASS certification, you know, and whatever. Our company wants
• 37:54
  us to know, right, But when a male patient is under care like
• 38:02
  that, especially if they're under guardianship, like if they don't have the capacity
• 38:07
  to communicate and advocate for themselves and stuff like that, or they're just completely
• 38:12
  physically and somewhat mentally disabled, because you know, with old age you get
• 38:17
  sinility, you get post concussion syndrome, and a lot of men, especially
• 38:22
  if they've had hard jobs, they've survived because they had care as veterans,
• 38:29
  you know, they've had like I've I've taken care. I've took care of
• 38:32
  World War two veterans in one of the both of the nursing homes that I
• 38:37
  worked at. And sometimes it's not that they don't talk about it, it's
• 38:42
  that they don't have the communication capabilities that they used to have anymore, and
• 38:46
  they can't. But the perpetrator is so bold that she gets caught, and
• 38:53
  that's how you find out. And then all of a sudden, a whole
• 38:58
  bunch of things are explained. This is why this guy has been avoiding the
• 39:02
  shower, This is why this guy doesn't like to be alone, you know,
• 39:07
  with with this particular person, you know, or things like that,
• 39:12
  and and it's you. You look back, and the first thing that accursed
• 39:15
  to you is why didn't I figure this out? Well, he couldn't tell
• 39:19
  you. But but yeah, while this underdiscussed problem warrants more visibility for many
• 39:28
  reasons. Chief among them is the reality. This is chief among them,
• 39:32
  you know, not just you know, some side right a little by the
• 39:36
  way this can happen, which would that could be fair? By the way,
• 39:40
  you know, if the abuse is really bad, they can turn them
• 39:44
  against all women. Well, that happens with both sexes. Women who are
• 39:47
  abused sometimes turn against all men too, and it hurts their relationships with people
• 39:52
  that are family or friends, they've had co workers, ruins their chances if
• 39:59
  they're heterosexual at forming functional relationships in the future with partners, you know,
• 40:06
  and stuff. And that can happen with men too, But that that would
• 40:09
  be you would treat that as a side issue. It doesn't happen every time,
• 40:13
  right, No. Chief among them is the reality that we create more
• 40:19
  misogynists. Yeah we don't. We don't actually care about the male victims.
• 40:24
  We don't care about their well being or any other struggles they may have.
• 40:29
  We worry about hurting the women's and and and his reasoning is by neglecting the
• 40:37
  healing of male survivors of abuse, right, so, more misogynists someone with
• 40:42
  a strong hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women, not fear
• 40:45
  of. He hasn't listed fear of, which is funny because feminists say,
• 40:49
  if you have a fear of women, you're a misogynist. By neglecting the
• 40:52
  healing of male survivors of abuse by women lacking the tools and language to unpack
• 40:59
  there he goes again. Lacking the tools and language to unpack and articulate their
• 41:02
  pain can lead male survivors of abuse to scapegoat all women and sometimes by extension,
• 41:08
  gender non conforming folks too. Oh good lord, come on, dude,
• 41:14
  we just had to throw that in there as well. I mean,
• 41:16
  it's ridiculous. It's enough that you're painting these guys as you know, these
• 41:23
  they just google boogle. I don't know how to talk, what what are
• 41:30
  feelings? What? Come on? Are you kidding me? He goes,
• 41:35
  goes into the psychiatrists office. Oh yeah, no kidding, I got paint.
• 41:43
  No, they know how to speak about their pain. Who is listening
• 41:49
  to them? And how are they interpreting that? That discussion you know what
• 41:53
  I mean. How are they determining whether or not this person is necessarily in
• 42:00
  need, like something actually happened. Oh no, it's men just don't.
• 42:06
  We just don't know how to talk about their abuse as fucking bullshit. Okay,
• 42:13
  men are they would love for someone, anyone to listen and hear about
• 42:20
  the ship that they go through. Okay, they just don't feel like they
• 42:25
  can get it from anywhere because women don't care. And then when they do,
• 42:30
  what happens to them, they get thrown this ship in their face.
• 42:36
  Oh you just hate women? No, right, Well, or if women
• 42:42
  care, sometimes they don't care by having compassion for the guy. They care
• 42:47
  by being afraid that the guy isn't going to be as strong for them as
• 42:54
  he was before and as useful to them as he was before. And yeah,
• 43:00
  that's so they don't. Guys don't necessarily, for instance, want to
• 43:05
  tell their partners, their female partners about it. There isn't. The focus
• 43:12
  here isn't on healing these harmed men. The focus is on making sure they
• 43:17
  don't become abusers themselves, that they don't become misogynists. Well, you don't
• 43:25
  place the blame on women, you know, we can't talk about the women.
• 43:30
  It's not it's not women's fault, guys, that you were abused by
• 43:35
  a women, which none of these guys are really saying. Okay, I
• 43:38
  think the internalized patriarchy. Yes, I had a patriarchy this morning. It
• 43:46
  was delicious. Oh wait that was cream of wheat. Oh oh shit,
• 43:54
  I had. That's so hard to tell the difference, you see, technically,
• 44:01
  technically, if you want to get serious, it's your own fault because
• 44:06
  it's the internalized patriarchy today. Yes, yeah, yep. And of course
• 44:14
  we know that patriarchy is evil, right, And I just want to I
• 44:17
  just want to make you think about something here too. When feminists talk about
• 44:22
  patriarchy, like if you look at anything they've written about it, trying to
• 44:27
  describe it, trying to explain it, trying to define it, they won't
• 44:30
  actually come out and say, here is the definition of patriarchy theory. But
• 44:34
  everything they say, if you boil it down to just the nitty gritty,
• 44:38
  take all the water out of it, take all the fanciness out of it,
• 44:42
  they are saying that everything feminists consider bad about civilization is that way because
• 44:51
  men design civilization to oppress women. For men's benefit. That is the that
• 44:59
  is the underlying premise of patriarchy theory, which is really just conjecture because it's
• 45:06
  never been proved. And when you talk to them about it and you ask
• 45:12
  for proof, they will give you examples of female disadvantage or give you examples
• 45:21
  of restrictions or obligations that have been placed on women under historical law and policy
• 45:29
  without considering the experiences of men under that same law and policy, where they
• 45:35
  also had obligations and restrictions. And the reason that the women had their obligations
• 45:42
  and restrictions was to facilitate the male obligation to take care of, to provide
• 45:47
  for, to protect, be responsible for the female. So you can't take
• 45:53
  out alone in his name because he has to pay it. And that's not
• 46:00
  discrimination against you because you're not paying your debt, you know, just things
• 46:07
  like that, right, So they'll do that. And then when you point
• 46:10
  out men faced hardship, men's hardship, and when women's hardship were related,
• 46:16
  and they were, they were connected in this manner. Men were responsible for
• 46:22
  women. Women were obligated to not get in the way of men fulfilling that
• 46:25
  responsibility. And they get they get upset right there, it's not the same.
• 46:32
  It's not the same. Why Well, because it wasn't done to them
• 46:36
  because there were men. Oh really, how do you prove that? How
• 46:39
  do you prove that being men wasn't the reason that they were made responsible for
• 46:44
  women? So patriarchy conjecture, because it isn't a real theory, relies on
• 46:52
  circular reasoning. Women had hardship. Well, yeah, so did men.
• 46:55
  Well it's not the same when men had it. Well be you know what's
• 47:00
  the evidence of that. Well, it wasn't done to them because they were
• 47:01
  men. It was. It was just done to them, it was just
• 47:05
  and men were responsible for it, whereas women were oppressed. All right,
• 47:12
  women, women's hardship was a feature of their oppression and discrimination. Well,
• 47:16
  how do you know because women had hardship? Right, So, patriarchy it
• 47:24
  says that this system that doesn't exist, the feminist patriarchy already deprives boys and
• 47:31
  men of emotional freedom and outlets, which is bullshit. It does not.
• 47:37
  No, I mean, it just sounds stupid right there. Patriarchy, Right,
• 47:44
  this is the thing that's supposed to men are in control of everything.
• 47:49
  How would it deprive men and boys of anything of anything, right, right,
• 47:54
  Exactly, if patriarchy lets them do whatever the hell they wants, why
• 48:00
  wouldn't they have the emotional freedom to you know, say whatever is feeling,
• 48:06
  you know, to talk about what hurts them. Of course they would.
• 48:09
  Of course this is so stupid. Well, it's funny. They have this
• 48:16
  whole image in their mind of like these these men and like the shadows sitting
• 48:23
  around a table at the ya house of a fifty story building or something,
• 48:28
  just like yeah, what they're standing around and they were like controlling all the
• 48:34
  women. And then they're also saying like you're not allowed to show emotions either
• 48:38
  men. But where the patriarchy and we are here for men? And I
• 48:45
  just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. You have to ask patriarchy
• 48:49
  Central on Twitter. He'll explain everything. That's a real account. But yeah,
• 48:57
  and so, so the article says it's that the appropriate range of emotional
• 49:02
  expression boys and men can engage and is limited. Right, doesn't say who
• 49:07
  specifically is responsible, just that it's patriarchy. Right, So you think about
• 49:13
  this. Who shames men and boys for getting angry women? Who responds to
• 49:24
  the complaints of non custodial fathers for instance, by calling them angry white men,
• 49:32
  even though a huge portion of the ones that are activists trying to remedy
• 49:39
  the situation of mothers being able to alienate children from their parents are black fathers
• 49:45
  that have been pushed out of their families. Those angry white black men,
• 49:51
  I mean like a feminist cause, if I ever did hear one, they're
• 49:55
  all they're they're all deadbeats anyway. I mean, who really cares right?
• 50:00
  Right? But who who treats who treats men as a threat for expressing loneliness.
• 50:12
  You're not entitled to our company? Who? I mean? It's it's
• 50:16
  it's It's not like the government is looking into certain cells of people online that
• 50:24
  may or may not have, you know, some some different opinions about women
• 50:30
  and society, and oh my god, they might be dangerous. You might
• 50:35
  need to keep an eye on these guys who never left their mother's basement.
• 50:39
  Yep. Who who is it that created a body of research to try to
• 50:44
  demonize men right for being lonely and sad about being lonely and trying to figure
• 50:51
  out how to cope with being lonely or how to solve the problem of their
• 50:57
  loneliness. It's certainly wasn't the patriarchy. That's feminists have actually now started creating
• 51:06
  a body of research. They're trying to create a mental disorder out of being
• 51:13
  an insult, right, But yeah, it's it's it's totally the patriarchy that
• 51:17
  keeps men from expressing their feelings. And because we socialize boys and men to
• 51:27
  externalize emotions, to perpetuate this emotional void for male survivors of abuse by women
• 51:35
  is to perpetuate their vulnerability at our own expense. So wait what wait wait,
• 51:39
  wait, wait, wait what do we deprive them of emotional freedom and
• 51:45
  outlets or do we socialize them to externalize? And exactly what is that?
• 51:52
  It's your fault, I'm angry? Is that externalizing an emotion? That doesn't
• 51:57
  that that? I mean, there's an inconsistent see in this paragraph, like,
• 52:00
  how do you like somebody didn't proofread this for all of the letters after
• 52:06
  this guy's name. Well, maybe he has to take a Basic English chorus
• 52:09
  or something, because he's got an eightiest, he's got an ABCD PhD,
• 52:15
  and he knows better than you, so you know, he's got a master's
• 52:22
  the same level of education cloud as this jack. It doesn't matter. They
• 52:29
  he's got something, he's got a title, and he's gonna wear that ship
• 52:32
  to the day that he dies. Okay, to be fair, this guy
• 52:36
  did right for BuzzFeed, and I didn't know that. Yeah, that takes
• 52:40
  all of almost everything off the off of the table. But I think I
• 52:45
  think what he meant to say instead of externalize is internalize, right, I
• 52:53
  think that would make more sense with what he's trying to say. And because
• 52:57
  we socialize boys and meant to internalize emotional emotions so perpetually, this emotional void
• 53:05
  for me. I don't know, maybe I'm I don't know, maybe I'm
• 53:07
  off. We tell boys and men to externalize their emotions by punching their girlfriend
• 53:14
  in the face, right, Like, that's why, that's why we have
• 53:17
  such a hard time viewing the fact that they can be victims of domestic abuse.
• 53:23
  Yeah. Sorry, a little bit of gallows humor there, but I
• 53:28
  mean, frankly, it's not it's not far off from my own experiences.
• 53:34
  Well, and you know, we do have this issue of feminists treating men's
• 53:40
  like they talk about women's way of knowing, right, that women have a
• 53:45
  different way of observing the world around them and in tuting information conclusions from information
• 53:52
  that maybe they haven't consciously realized that they've paid attention to, but subconsciously they
• 53:57
  did, and all that kind of you know, some of that utter bullshit.
• 54:01
  Some of it's it's got basis and truth, but they've warped it into
• 54:07
  something that turns it into a lie, right, Like you know, like
• 54:10
  saying, oh, the car is red, the you know, car reflects
• 54:14
  red light and and warping it into to touch the car, it's red hot,
• 54:20
  you'll burn your fingers. You know, that's just because it's red and
• 54:23
  that you were right it about it being read. But no, it's not
• 54:27
  gonna burn your fingers. Men have different ways of expressing their emotions sometimes and
• 54:35
  women do, and a lot of it is rooted around women help seek right
• 54:39
  women, uh seek validation. Women. Women seek bonding over their emotions,
• 54:51
  over describing and analyzing their emotions. Men seek solutions to the problems related to
• 54:59
  the oceans, and they take action based on that. And my brother described
• 55:05
  to me when we were in i want to say, high school maybe college,
• 55:13
  the moment in time when he stopped crying about things that upset him when
• 55:19
  he was a kid, and it was with a conscious decision. But it
• 55:23
  wasn't a conscious decision because he was embarrassed and thought people were looking down on
• 55:28
  him for it. He just found it useless. And so he's something that
• 55:31
  happened and he was upset about it and he was crying, and all of
• 55:36
  a sudden it occurred to him like, well, why am I doing this.
• 55:38
  This isn't helping. I'm not going to get make the situation any better.
• 55:42
  I'm not getting anything out of it. I'm gonna go and you know,
• 55:46
  start changing the situation. And that's what he did thereafter. Like you
• 55:53
  know, there's sometimes you know, he cried when mom died, he cried
• 55:58
  when dad died. That's that's pain that there's nothing you can do to to
• 56:05
  to change that situation, you know. But he also when he moved away
• 56:14
  from the family, restarted a family business like though when he was raised in
• 56:21
  and sort of threw himself into that. So it's a totally different way of
• 56:27
  missing your family and processing your emotions and everything. I will do something functional
• 56:32
  and beneficial. And my brother in law, when he passed away, his
• 56:38
  son finished his last art project so that it wouldn't be unfinished, you know,
• 56:46
  he didn't want his dad to have something left unfinished, you know,
• 56:52
  and like that's the kind of women don't necessarily do that. Some of us
• 56:57
  do, but a lot of women don't. And it's perfickly fine for women
• 57:01
  to you know, sit around and cry, cry until snot runs down their
• 57:05
  faces and men to do something different to deal with pain and suffering. And
• 57:12
  they're they're both valid, but we don't have room for that in our society.
• 57:19
  If what women do is to be considered valid, people treat it like
• 57:24
  it has to be the only thing that's valid. So the first misconception,
• 57:30
  he says, the first commonly understood reason we overlook the victimization of men by
• 57:38
  women is that men disproportionately victimize women. Buy a long shot, which is
• 57:45
  false. Statistics actually show that two thirds of domestic violence is two way,
• 57:55
  and of the domestic violence that is one way, it consistently shows up that
• 58:01
  around seventy percent of it is female perpetrated. So another way of putting that,
• 58:08
  most of the time when there's domestic violence, the target hits back.
• 58:15
  When the target doesn't hit back, around seventy percent of the time that's a
• 58:22
  man. That target is a man. Yeah, men are seventy percent of
• 58:28
  the people the victims of domestic violence who don't defend themselves with violence. Well,
• 58:35
  yeah, and this is just talking about the physical aspect, right,
• 58:38
  Like even this day said above and his key points that abuse by women can
• 58:44
  go unnoticed when it primarily involves relational aggression or emotion or psychological abuse. So
• 58:49
  it's like, well, when we account for all of these factors, things
• 58:52
  narrow a lot more than he is claiming. So the fact that he is
• 58:58
  saying this after having that in one of his key points is extremely disingenuous.
• 59:05
  Yep, and just just oh, it's it's just so brutal. He goes
• 59:10
  on to say, to invite anyone but especially men into this discussion while simultaneously
• 59:15
  minimizing men's disproportionate enactment of violence against women would not only be disingenuous, but
• 59:22
  telling of an anti feminist agenda. I do not endorse because an airhorn on
• 59:31
  it don't have a better response, because you have to protect women at all
• 59:42
  costs. And it's just disgusting. It's just as good women can do no
• 59:49
  wrong. I live in this guy's world. Go and live in this guy's
• 59:53
  world where I can just go and fucking tramp Allaway's right. I'm gonna move
• 59:59
  into his house. I'm gonna eat all of these fucking groceries. I'm gonna
• 1:00:02
  shit in his toilet, clog it up, and you know, I'm just
• 1:00:07
  gonna, you know whatever, Excuse you, He's not He's a faith them,
• 1:00:15
  so no excuse me, vague them. Well, you about to get
• 1:00:19
  a taste of this motherfucking equality. Okay, bitch, do you no?
• 1:00:22
  This is so I gad I said it already. This is so bid.
• 1:00:28
  This is fucking just the insane ramblings of someone who has been so misguided through
• 1:00:37
  life. I mean, it's it feels almost like he has been beaten down
• 1:00:44
  by every woman who ever raised him. Because I doubt that he had a
• 1:00:49
  father in his life, I really do. Yeah, that's it's very possible
• 1:00:55
  that he didn't. I mean, that's that's becoming prevalent in our society,
• 1:01:00
  Eddie. So so there is that, and and of course you know he
• 1:01:05
  went through university in a field that is dominated by feminism, so it's a
• 1:01:10
  guarantee that he was told to sit down and shut up and and listen to
• 1:01:15
  women over and over again until he became a matriarchy loving, patriarchal womenist,
• 1:01:22
  you know, like that's just like you can you can see that the attempts
• 1:01:28
  to distance from the patriarchy, like he talks like it's outside him because you
• 1:01:32
  know, they've have me and whatnot. It's it's it's very transparent and kind
• 1:01:42
  of embarrassing, like, no, actually really embarrassing. This This is basically
• 1:01:45
  article writer for I'm obedient. I'm obedient. I'm a good boy about this
• 1:01:51
  men's issue, but do not be any really, I have paid homage to
• 1:01:54
  women's greater victimhood and men's being worse than women, worse people than it really
• 1:02:00
  is telling of an anti feminist agenda that I do not endorse. Like just
• 1:02:07
  blank in morse code. If you are in trouble, my guy, Like,
• 1:02:13
  seriously, let's come and get you out of this nonsense. Jeers I
• 1:02:19
  for one, welcome our new feminist overlords. Oh jeez, he goes on.
• 1:02:27
  I am keenly aware of how men lacking in structural historical power analysis of
• 1:02:32
  gender and sex. So men who have not had the feminist narrative imposed on
• 1:02:38
  them through academic to speak, basically, that's what that what that means,
• 1:02:42
  right, all right routinely hold feminism to an ideological purity test that no framework
• 1:02:50
  can pass. Yes, Actually, to keep dismissing it, keep deflecting that.
• 1:03:06
  I'm sorry, yes, go ahead, ideological purity Like exactly what you
• 1:03:13
  know is he referring to? There? Is he complaining that when we get
• 1:03:17
  told feminism is about equality and then feminists abandoned the idea of equality anytime accountability
• 1:03:27
  comes into the discussion, we don't. We we view them as hypocrites and
• 1:03:32
  we don't consider their ideology valid if they can't be consistent. Is that that's
• 1:03:38
  what he's talking about, because that's what it sounds like he's talking about.
• 1:03:42
  Mm hmm. So he goes on this this no framework can pass this ideological
• 1:03:50
  purity guest to keep dismissing it, keep deflecting, and keep evading accountability.
• 1:03:55
  What are we meant to be taking accountability? Or you're talking about male victims
• 1:04:01
  of domestic abuse? What are they meant to be taking accountability for? You?
• 1:04:08
  Giant asshole? You are so insensitive. I can't even deal with it.
• 1:04:15
  I just I'm sorry. Like I keep inserting my clients that are going
• 1:04:20
  through this into the room with this guy saying these things, and I can
• 1:04:26
  feel the pain on their face as they hear what this guy is saying,
• 1:04:30
  and I'm just like, I'm just enraged at it. I feel like I
• 1:04:35
  have to jump to the defense of these guys because this is disgusting. Yeah,
• 1:04:42
  what the fuck? Yeah? So his next bit, the intent of
• 1:04:47
  this post is not to invalidate women's survivors of abuse by men, or to
• 1:04:53
  invalidate feminism's immense contribution to survivor discourse. That's his whole So his disclaimer was
• 1:05:04
  half the page. I think this box doesn't talking about films right right.
• 1:05:12
  I was like, when, what do you say? What happened to the
• 1:05:16
  man and you're supposed to be talking about No, he goes right back into
• 1:05:21
  the fucking women. Okay, you know what, you know what, Okay,
• 1:05:26
  I'm just gonna I'm just gonna back up and take a breath for a
• 1:05:29
  sec and I'm going to give him an iota of slack here because I'm just
• 1:05:35
  having flashbacks to when I was trying to publish my own paper on male victims
• 1:05:41
  of domestic abuse and the one peer reviewer that was getting in my way that
• 1:05:45
  was saying, oh, you're minimizing female victims of domestic abuse. And then
• 1:05:50
  in order to get the paper actually published, I kind of had to throw
• 1:05:54
  in a whole little section like a homage to female victims in order to just
• 1:06:00
  say this is not too discriminate against females, Like it's yes, I had
• 1:06:05
  to do that in order to get past this one peer reviewer. So like,
• 1:06:11
  I get it, I get the structures that are in place currently that
• 1:06:15
  are maintaining this kind of mentality, but like, fuly crap, though,
• 1:06:20
  this guy's laying it on thick and those are, by the way, feminist
• 1:06:25
  structures. It is feminists who say you are not allowed to have compassion for
• 1:06:30
  men without first paying homage to women's greater victimhood and pointing out men's greater perpetration.
• 1:06:41
  And it doesn't matter that neither of those things is true. It doesn't
• 1:06:45
  matter that women are not bigger victims, that there are not more female victims
• 1:06:53
  than male victims. It is not true that there are more male perpetrators than
• 1:06:57
  female perpetrators. Yeah, it is none of that's true, but you still
• 1:07:01
  have and it just reeks of insecurity too. It's like you know, you're
• 1:07:08
  you're undermining your own point, really by insisting that the spotlight always be on
• 1:07:14
  you, that we can't possibly talk about anything else otherwise we are taking power
• 1:07:18
  away from your situation. Like, if you really legitimately believed in your heart
• 1:07:24
  of hearts that female victimization was just as important, you wouldn't have to sit
• 1:07:30
  here and defend it against other claims. You would just be able to comfortably
• 1:07:34
  acknowledge that, yes, this is a serious thing that women experience, that
• 1:07:40
  is really bad, and that requires services that are fortunately in like often in
• 1:07:45
  place in many areas. And there can also be male victims of domestic abuse
• 1:07:53
  that unfortunately do not have the same level of services available to them, and
• 1:07:59
  therefore we need to address that. And that's not taking away from women victims,
• 1:08:04
  Like, I don't get it. It's not a competition, you know
• 1:08:09
  it. Honestly, in my opinion, it speaks to the level at which
• 1:08:15
  they believe what they're saying. There is no one more insecure about whether or
• 1:08:25
  not people understand and believe what they're saying than a serial liar. Yeah,
• 1:08:32
  Like, those are the people that are the most insecure about being being trusted.
• 1:08:40
  Is the most untrustworthy people, even the falsely accused who should be insecure
• 1:08:47
  about being believed because people treat them like they're lying when they're not. Even
• 1:08:54
  they do not demonstrate the level of insecurity that a serial liar, that pathological
• 1:09:01
  liars have, and feminist ideologues exhibit that same level of insecurity. They somewhere
• 1:09:12
  within their psychology, whether it's right up in a forefront or buried under a
• 1:09:16
  bunch of psychobabble, they know that what they're saying is not true, that
• 1:09:23
  the talking points that they use are based on data that's that's biased, that's
• 1:09:30
  come from biased sources, that are based on incomplete looks at at the facts,
• 1:09:38
  the information, the data. That they're treating the same conditions and pressures
• 1:09:48
  differently depending on whether they are affecting a man or a woman, and they're
• 1:09:56
  treating the same behaviors differently depending on whether a man or woman exist bits them.
• 1:10:00
  They know that they're aware of that on some level. That's why they're
• 1:10:04
  insecure about being challenged, because they know they can't really defend anything they're saying.
• 1:10:15
  I don't know, you know, if you've ever had I know,
• 1:10:21
  I know at least prim you have had a close relationship with a narcissist.
• 1:10:28
  And they're like that all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean,
• 1:10:31
  like I I mean, I don't necessarily know about narcissism, but I mean
• 1:10:36
  I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure that my mother is a BPD, which
• 1:10:43
  is really really not far off. And so I they happened together a lot.
• 1:10:48
  I've noticed that the two diagnoses happened together a lot. Well, And
• 1:10:54
  I mean, like it really is all about, you know, deflecting that
• 1:11:00
  personal responsibility. Yeah, and and and just like oh, you know,
• 1:11:03
  you're it's everybody else that's doing It's it's everybody else that's doing the bad thing.
• 1:11:09
  I'm not me. I'm I'm perfect, I've I've got it all figured
• 1:11:14
  out, you know, I've got it. So it's it's got to be
• 1:11:19
  it's gotta be you, it's got to be everybody else. Yep. And
• 1:11:24
  you get you get to hear lie upon lie from them to shape their reality
• 1:11:30
  around the thing they're trying to protect and the original narrative they're trying to protect,
• 1:11:33
  and eventually it becomes to the degree of like cartoonish, childish, magical
• 1:11:40
  thinking. And then you get you get into the weeds of well, you're
• 1:11:45
  being abusive by challenging my cartoonish, childish, magical thinking. You're responsible for
• 1:11:54
  the affair because I dreamed about it, and therefore it must be real,
• 1:11:58
  you know, Like, Okay, well then how about you know, maybe
• 1:12:02
  you just leave. But yeah, that's an end of course. You know,
• 1:12:09
  this guy has to pay homage to female victims, like, like,
• 1:12:15
  nobody else has ever cared about female victims. They're so insecure. And the
• 1:12:20
  reason. It's not the victims that are insecure, right, it's the accusers
• 1:12:25
  that aren't victims. It's the grifters that make their money supporting the accusers that
• 1:12:32
  aren't victims. Those are the people that are real, honest to god,
• 1:12:38
  victims do not want their experiences used to take away from somebody else's ability to
• 1:12:47
  recover. So he goes on. Six years ago, I published Unharmed Your
• 1:12:58
  Sons of pleat of Black Fathers, about the culture of toxic masculinity in an
• 1:13:06
  environment where a rather large majority of black fathers get kicked out of their son's
• 1:13:12
  lives by black mothers right or white mothers, depending on who they've had sex
• 1:13:16
  with. Oh my god, I cannot. I'm just reading the rest of
• 1:13:20
  this paragraph before we even get to it, and I'm astounded by the how
• 1:13:26
  much this guy cannot stay on task in which I explain, dominator culture has
• 1:13:32
  always been the basis of the patriarchal socialization of males, and to this day
• 1:13:36
  still is there you go. I'm just like having to scroll up and be
• 1:13:41
  like, Okay, how many paragraphs has it been now since this guy has
• 1:13:44
  actually talked about the topic that he is purporting and talking about. Yeah,
• 1:13:50
  how he all over the place. He just like with all of his accomplishments
• 1:13:57
  that we read in the beginning, he's all over the plate. And I
• 1:14:03
  mean, I just I don't understand this applete Black fathers. Even reading it,
• 1:14:14
  he still doesn't talk about it. What are they supposed to do about
• 1:14:17
  it? If they're not allowed to see their kids? What are they supposed
• 1:14:21
  to be? First spoilers? But like Jesus Christ, like even in the
• 1:14:27
  next three paragraphs, he's not talking about I know, we have to we
• 1:14:32
  have to touch on every single feminist myth here. Guys. Boys have always
• 1:14:36
  been socialized to be rulers or warriors, what not self nurturers or nurturers of
• 1:14:45
  others. So doctors and firemen don't exist, guys, That's never happened in
• 1:14:51
  the world has never produced men who do things like rescuing people in danger,
• 1:14:58
  treating the you know, taking care, helping the poor men. So you
• 1:15:03
  know, like one of my favorite male psychologists that I consider like a an
• 1:15:10
  inspiration for my own work is Carl Rogers. And you know, I just
• 1:15:16
  just just saying, just putting that out there, like, you know,
• 1:15:21
  the father of unconditional positive regard and empathy and all that good shits, Like,
• 1:15:29
  yeah, no, it's not self nurturers, not not no, yep,
• 1:15:35
  no, it's not like the people who traditionally tried to understand human psychology
• 1:15:43
  for centuries were mostly men or anything either, right, exactly, how do
• 1:15:46
  we help keep in it? It's not like that's not been a talking point
• 1:15:50
  of feminists for ages about how much of a boys club initial psychology was,
• 1:15:57
  right, right, Like they can't even keep in consistent. Nope, nose.
• 1:16:04
  It was like all those guys didn't exist there. They were in charge,
• 1:16:08
  they kept women out, they monopolized, caring about people's mental health,
• 1:16:14
  but they didn't care. He goes on to say that in most societies,
• 1:16:19
  manhood has been defined by maintaining power and control over others. I always thought
• 1:16:26
  it was getting shit done, but encroaching and imposing, he says. And
• 1:16:32
  conversely, womanhood has been defined by maintaining control over one's self, self doubting,
• 1:16:39
  and drinking question mark question mark question mark, Oh my God, over
• 1:16:46
  over oneself or over all of the fucking children that she chooses to have.
• 1:16:54
  She's never just she not the concept of venting an historically female behavior right?
• 1:17:03
  An historically female behavior hysteria is it used to be considered a mental health condition
• 1:17:15
  was a term specifically for female behavior. Right. You didn't see men getting
• 1:17:21
  hysterical because they were not allowed, right, They had to maintains Right,
• 1:17:29
  you're you're the weakest league in the chain, and we can't have you.
• 1:17:32
  Because manhood has been defined historically not by maintaining power and control over others,
• 1:17:45
  but by being the shield between others and every threat in the world, maintaining
• 1:17:51
  power and control over what can get to my people. Right, that's that
• 1:17:59
  is where men may intame power and control. Masculinity has been defined by getting
• 1:18:03
  shit done. Right. Masculinity has been defined by self sacrifice for the greater
• 1:18:13
  good of the community. The community needs electricity. We're gonna go deep underground
• 1:18:20
  where there's poisonous gas and big holes, and it's dark, and we don't
• 1:18:26
  know what all animals are in there, and they might be dangerous. Some
• 1:18:30
  of them might be venomous. There's all kinds of things that can happen in
• 1:18:35
  a coal mine collapses. There have been many, many men killed. And
• 1:18:41
  when tunnels collapsed, methane and shit, what's the one that's carbon monoxide that
• 1:18:53
  you can't smell, because you can smell methane. Right. The concept of
• 1:18:58
  the canary in a coal mine is that a bird takes less time to die
• 1:19:05
  from carbon monoxide poisoning than than than a human, right, And they send
• 1:19:11
  the bird in first, and then if the bird survives, then they send
• 1:19:14
  in the humans. It doesn't always guarantee that you're not going to run into
• 1:19:18
  a pocket, right, the men they send in the men, the men,
• 1:19:23
  right. Well, And and here's the other thing, like when women
• 1:19:27
  did work in coal mines, upper class women complaint, Yes, how dare
• 1:19:35
  you? How dare you have these young women working in these conditions? Oh
• 1:19:41
  my god, it's such a travesty. Members of parliament went in and observed,
• 1:19:46
  got upset and eliminated their jobs. Right, So little boys had to
• 1:19:54
  do them instead mhm. We we can't have women meeting these harsh conditions.
• 1:20:00
  We can't have women working in these harsh conditions. Let's put some children in
• 1:20:03
  there instead, but specifically the male ones. Right, So, manhood has
• 1:20:12
  not men defined by maintaining a few A handful of men have power, and
• 1:20:18
  the vast, vast, overwhelming majority do not do not. They have responsibilities
• 1:20:27
  and obligations. Right, So there you go. But this is what we
• 1:20:33
  get consequently, boys will be boys. We had to hear that phrase often
• 1:20:40
  excuses and rationalizes boys bad behavior, to the point that good boys are often
• 1:20:46
  no better than bad girls. Really, what it's like, this is another
• 1:20:55
  feminist myth. Boys will be boys is strictly about guys getting grass stains on
• 1:21:01
  their pants because they were playing sand lot football. It's not excuse breaking a
• 1:21:08
  window or something. It's not used as an excuse for boys to encroach on
• 1:21:14
  other people's boundaries against their will. It's not an excuse for boys to be
• 1:21:17
  abusive, aggressive, mean, and all that. Yes, boys will settle
• 1:21:21
  their differences between each other with tests of physical strength and endurance and pain endurance.
• 1:21:30
  They'll fight, They'll they'll come up with weird things like that. Sissy
• 1:21:33
  test that they made up when I was in an elementary school where you erase
• 1:21:39
  a hole into your skin to see if you're tough enough to handle a pain.
• 1:21:45
  They stopped doing it when I got the girls to start calling it a
• 1:21:48
  dummy test if you're enough to let somebody talk you into doing that to your
• 1:21:54
  arm, because it made me sad to see the boys with injuries, like
• 1:22:01
  those are my buddies. But you know so I just called it the idiot
• 1:22:08
  test. You know, are you the dummy test? You know? Yeah,
• 1:22:10
  you're you let somebody talk you into doing that. You're a dummy.
• 1:22:14
  You failed. But yeah, they they want to make it out that it's
• 1:22:21
  about boys doing bad things to girls, right, But who's who's the one
• 1:22:28
  that has to hear, Oh, she kicked you in the shin, it's
• 1:22:30
  because she likes you, right right? I mean, who's the one that
• 1:22:39
  has to be warned by his dad? Don't get upset when you go on
• 1:22:44
  your first date and she only orders a salad and then she like finagles food
• 1:22:48
  off of your plate instead of ordering food for herself and eating what she wanted.
• 1:22:56
  Like just stupid things, you know, Boys, boundaries get treated as
• 1:23:02
  an attack on girls. But yeah, the power over versus power with expectation
• 1:23:11
  for boys not only increases the likelihood that boys become abusive, but also increases
• 1:23:17
  societal confusion about where to draw the line between patriarchal patriarchal ideas of male strength
• 1:23:24
  and patriarchal abuse. Okay, but like again, why are we talking about
• 1:23:30
  boys becoming abusive and patriarchal abuse? This is supposed to be about male victims
• 1:23:35
  of abuse. How are we still on this? I don't get it?
• 1:23:42
  Yes, so is he ever gonna mention male victims? Right? Like?
• 1:23:46
  What what are you doing? He says? The convergence of all these social
• 1:23:51
  factors make it more likely that the typical person struggles to comprehend male victims as
• 1:23:57
  victims, So it now would He's basically saying, here is because you have
• 1:24:06
  this idea that it's normal and natural and socially normalized for men to be abusive,
• 1:24:17
  you can't view them as vulnerable enough to be victims. That's that's his
• 1:24:21
  thing. So the typical person struggles to comprehend male victims as victims and abusive
• 1:24:28
  men by women as real abuse. What he doesn't realize that he is admitting
• 1:24:33
  is that feminist narratives that generalize and demonize the entire male population as deadbeats and
• 1:24:42
  abusers make it hard for feminists to recognize male victims of abuse. The second
• 1:24:53
  misconception and I don't know if we'll get all the way through this or not.
• 1:25:00
  Second misconception commonly understood or second commonly understood reason we overlook the victimization of
• 1:25:08
  men by women and girls and women are socialized to be aggressive in a relation.
• 1:25:15
  This is a badly written sentence. The second commonly understood reason we overlooked
• 1:25:21
  the victim of girls by women is that girls and women are socialized to be
• 1:25:29
  aggressive in relation, in a relation relational manner. He didn't grow up grow
• 1:25:34
  up with the girls I grew up with. That is emotionally, psychologically,
• 1:25:39
  and physically that can inflict pain without fear of force. Oh and socially,
• 1:25:44
  yes, they can inflict pain without fear of force. I mean I brought
• 1:25:49
  up in the fast socialized to be that because I never I never got that
• 1:25:57
  message growing up. I don't know about you, guys, but when you
• 1:26:00
  grow up, you probably had you probably had a functioning family. I think
• 1:26:05
  this is actually indicative of the children that grew up without their fathers and their
• 1:26:13
  homes because this is how women women, women, boys and girls both.
• 1:26:21
  You know, when the father is not home, they have to over exemplify
• 1:26:27
  this defensiveness and this aggression. Right, this, you're not gonna come into
• 1:26:32
  my space because they don't really have their natural protector in the home and the
• 1:26:39
  mother just doesn't cut it right. So I think boys and girls that grow
• 1:26:44
  up in these situations, they develop this kind of of rigidness. There is
• 1:26:54
  that that wrote, and that's that's just where I think I am. There
• 1:27:00
  is that growing up without a father, a person does become more intolerant of
• 1:27:09
  differences, you know, with other people if they're and they can become more
• 1:27:14
  aggressive as well. And that does cause both sexes to have trouble, criminal
• 1:27:17
  trouble actually, and greater numbers than if they had their father in the home.
• 1:27:23
  But I also noticed that, like you have two distinct classes of people
• 1:27:30
  sort of economically and socially. Even though you know you have rich, middle
• 1:27:34
  class and poor and all that, you also have if you draw line,
• 1:27:39
  like right in the middle of middle class, you have everything under that line
• 1:27:43
  where the women have jobs because they can't afford not to, and so mom's
• 1:27:51
  mom works, kids get put into daycare, they spend a lot of time.
• 1:27:56
  Like when I was a kid, I grew up with latchkey kids.
• 1:28:00
  For the Millennials and the Zoomers, a latchkey kid was a kid who carried
• 1:28:05
  a key, often on a shoe string around their neck, you know,
• 1:28:11
  or around their wrist. That when they would get out of school, they'd
• 1:28:15
  ride the bus home where they would walk home unaccompanied by an adult by the
• 1:28:19
  way, and that they would enter their home and there would be nobody home.
• 1:28:25
  They would go inside, they would lock the door, they would make
• 1:28:28
  themselves a sandwich, and they would watch TV until mom got home. And
• 1:28:32
  they would be alone in the house until mom got home. And they might
• 1:28:35
  be as young as kindergarten age and still be alone in the house for you
• 1:28:40
  know, half hour an hour until mom got home from work. That's that
• 1:28:45
  was normal when I was a kid in school. I started kindergarten in like
• 1:28:50
  nineteen seventy eight, so that that was a long time ago, right,
• 1:28:58
  But U and they didn't you know, for the most part, they didn't
• 1:29:00
  get hurt. Sometimes they did things they weren't allowed to do because you weren't
• 1:29:05
  going to get caught right, But aside from that, it was not that
• 1:29:11
  big of a deal to us. There was a park two doors down from
• 1:29:15
  my house when I was growing up, and we all played at that park
• 1:29:18
  together. We played sand lot football, We played monkey bar tag, which
• 1:29:24
  I scared the ship out of the other kid's parents playing monkey bar tag because
• 1:29:27
  I would jump across the monkey bars and stuff like a monkey, and some
• 1:29:32
  of the boys did that. I was the only girl that did it,
• 1:29:36
  but I was pretty flexible, right, and that the kids would do things
• 1:29:41
  that, you know, you could really get hurt doing, jumping from monkey
• 1:29:45
  bar to tree, doing battle on top of the rocky horse toy, see
• 1:29:53
  who could knock the other person off, climbing on top of the swing set,
• 1:29:58
  you know, just we shit that you don't get away with doing if
• 1:30:01
  your mom's around. And every so often somebody's mom would come across to the
• 1:30:08
  park from one of the houses that faced the park and say, hey,
• 1:30:12
  don't do that, you're gonna get hurt, or stop a fight if it
• 1:30:15
  was getting out of hand, you know, and stuff like that, and
• 1:30:16
  sometimes they did. I got fish hooked in the mouth by another girl once
• 1:30:21
  over a phago bottle, an empty fago bottle that we were using in the
• 1:30:26
  sandbox read kitty otor box outdoors in the park to pour water in the sand
• 1:30:33
  so we could make sand castles and shit. Right, and another girl wanted
• 1:30:38
  it, and she didn't say, hey, let me have that, She
• 1:30:42
  just started a fight. And that was how the kids in my neighborhood were.
• 1:30:46
  You know, we duked it out a lot, We hid each other
• 1:30:49
  a lot, We wrestled a lot. We learned to negotiate as we got
• 1:30:54
  older because we didn't like getting punched. And that was that's what boys do
• 1:31:00
  in pretty much all of civilized society and uncivilized society. They grow up learning
• 1:31:05
  that that you you, you find negotiation a lot less painful than getting into
• 1:31:12
  a fist fight. Right, But on the other side of town, the
• 1:31:15
  girls were taught to be young ladies. You didn't hit, You didn't you
• 1:31:19
  know, you didn't lower yourself to engage in physical violence. That was for
• 1:31:27
  for low lifes like me. Right. You you you simply stopped associating with
• 1:31:32
  the person that made you angry. You know, you got political about it.
• 1:31:36
  Basically, relational aggression is politics, and in neighborhoods where the family can
• 1:31:47
  afford for mom to be a stay at home mom without any kind of a
• 1:31:53
  side hustle, no selling avon, no, none of that shit, just
• 1:31:58
  just flat out stay at home mom has uh you know, can can afford
• 1:32:03
  to be paying more attension to the kids all the time. That's the way
• 1:32:09
  little girls grow up. They learn to politic instead of engaging in physic physical
• 1:32:15
  violence. So my experience with relational aggression was it didn't exist really until I
• 1:32:24
  hit junior high and started attending class with girls from the nice side of town.
• 1:32:30
  And that's where I met the you can't sit with us plastics mean girls
• 1:32:34
  right that the movie Mean Girls portrayed. Now, in my class, my
• 1:32:42
  age group, those girls grew out of that by the end of the seventh
• 1:32:47
  grade. And it's probably because in my class we had some kids who were
• 1:32:57
  who faced difficulties that were so profound that the rest of us couldn't even comprehend
• 1:33:01
  them. We had a boy in our class in particular, and muscular distrophy,
• 1:33:04
  and he passed away halfway through my seventh grade year, and we all
• 1:33:11
  learned a lot from him about how to treat people and how to relate to
• 1:33:16
  each other. And I don't think any of us realized how much until we
• 1:33:23
  became adults and started thinking back about you know, childhood, right, But
• 1:33:28
  the girls had that in them. They had that capability and they do do
• 1:33:34
  that kind of thing. And all my life I've run into women that do
• 1:33:39
  that and girls that do that, even though the girls that I went to
• 1:33:42
  school with matured out of it, I think more quickly than normal because of
• 1:33:48
  getting to know some kids, like you know, he wasn't the only person
• 1:33:55
  but we had if we wanted to have friendship with him and have a community
• 1:34:02
  with him as classmates, we couldn't just say, well, you got to
• 1:34:06
  bend to how we do things. We had to gear how we did things
• 1:34:13
  around making room for him. Because he couldn't change his situation, we could
• 1:34:17
  change ours, right, So that was something that we learned that I don't
• 1:34:20
  know, not everybody learns that at thirteen years old, so that it just
• 1:34:28
  I don't know if that helps to understand, but if you have had experience
• 1:34:32
  with relational aggression and girls mine is that what feminists and Marxists would term privilege
• 1:34:44
  makes room for that to become a girl's primary means of manipulating people around her,
• 1:34:51
  where what they would term a lack of privilege or oppression or whatever,
• 1:34:57
  and it really felt oppressed growing up just because I lived on the other side
• 1:35:00
  of town. That eliminates room for that to be the primary means by which
• 1:35:08
  a girl wants to manipulate the people around her, and she resorts to the
• 1:35:13
  same methods that boys do, and she learns the same lessons that boys do
• 1:35:18
  about negotiation and cooperation being preferable to violence and conflict. So but yeah,
• 1:35:34
  unfortunately it doesn't prevent relational aggression from being viewed as the primary means by which
• 1:35:45
  women abuse. I don't think it is. I think that there are a
• 1:35:48
  lot of women that when they're faced with wanting to control a man, they
• 1:35:56
  know that he can't hit back, right, he's at least he's not supposed
• 1:36:00
  too, and so they'll they'll inflict violence on him, like physical violence,
• 1:36:05
  even if they're usually accustomed when they're dealing with girls to spread rumors and say
• 1:36:15
  you can't sit with us. So he claims girls and women's heightened relationality.
• 1:36:23
  Can it is at least partially a byproduct of patriarchal domination? Oh god,
• 1:36:29
  really, it can be traced back to patriarchal pressure economically, legally, and
• 1:36:35
  religiously for women to prioritize becoming mothers and wives, as well as the need
• 1:36:42
  for interpersonal support when healing from men's unwanted sexual advances. Okay, so he's
• 1:36:49
  made some statements here as as if certain factors are true, and he put
• 1:36:57
  those statements together in a paragraph, but he did nothing to show how they
• 1:37:01
  relate to each other. Like that's that there's a lot of reaching going on
• 1:37:09
  here. That's just like linking things together. And it's like, okay,
• 1:37:13
  but you know, you kind of have to show your work on this one.
• 1:37:16
  What you know, what this makes me actually think of, you know,
• 1:37:23
  movie stripes where I can't remember the other character. John Candy's character is
• 1:37:29
  constantly he wants the top bunk if I remember right, and and the other
• 1:37:33
  character wants the top bunk, and John Candy is always giving these ridiculous explanations
• 1:37:42
  why it's his turn to have the top bunk again, you know, like,
• 1:37:45
  well, we're we're in Italy. If we were in Germany, it'd
• 1:37:48
  be or turn to have the top bunk, but we're in Italy, so
• 1:37:50
  it's my turn. And the other guy's just dumb enough that he accepts it.
• 1:37:55
  This paragraph reads like that, am I missing something? Yeah? I
• 1:38:06
  mean, I mean, I don't. I don't know it's yet again,
• 1:38:13
  it's it's more stuff where I'm just like, okay, I'm I'm really really
• 1:38:17
  waiting for you to get back to the points about male victims, like you
• 1:38:23
  know, insert skeleton dot jpeg waiting for this guy to get to the point.
• 1:38:30
  Right. Yeah, So we'll just we'll skip down on secuitter because I
• 1:38:33
  don't it just that that was like a a bump. I guess. On
• 1:38:41
  one hand, a compulsor this compulsory relationality, when expressed as emotional and social
• 1:38:47
  intelligence, is positive. Mm. Yeah. It can have a pro social
• 1:38:57
  effect that comforts and conciliates. On the other, compulsory relationality can also increase
• 1:39:05
  the propensity for relational aggression, behavior that intends to harm others through deliberate manipulation
• 1:39:12
  of their social standing in relationships, Three features of which include excluding someone,
• 1:39:18
  gossiping, or purpose pur polist purposefully with drawing he could just he could have
• 1:39:26
  just said, purposely withdrawing acknowledgement of another's presence, for example, the silent
• 1:39:30
  treatment he left one out. Gossiping can cover threat narratives, but I think
• 1:39:42
  threatn narratives are pretty specific, but I don't know if psychology has caught up
• 1:39:45
  with that yet. Threaten narratives are very specific. Allison has a whole series
• 1:39:54
  of videos on that on her typhon Blue channel, So if you look up
• 1:40:00
  Life on Blue and threat narratives on YouTube, you can you can view those,
• 1:40:04
  and we went over those in an episode two. But but essentially,
• 1:40:13
  it's when you falsify a a circumstance where you're innocent and vulnerable and your target
• 1:40:25
  is powerful and has intent to do harm, and then you spread it around
• 1:40:33
  your social circle or around the environment you're trying to affect in order to achieve
• 1:40:41
  some sort of harm to your target or gain some sort of power or position,
• 1:40:47
  et cetera. So that's like and it can be gossip, but there
• 1:40:57
  are women who do it without gossiping. There are women who do it like
• 1:41:01
  a threat narrative can even just be pretending to be afraid of somebody all the
• 1:41:04
  time without actually saying any reason why, or going to the clerk of courts
• 1:41:10
  and asking for a restraining order and making a false allegation of abuse in order
• 1:41:15
  to get it. So there you go and that is abuse, by the
• 1:41:19
  way, a study on gender bullying. Oh go ahead, I was just
• 1:41:26
  gonna say, yeah that you know, it's called administrative abuse, and it's
• 1:41:30
  actually a really you know, it's it's a form of abuse that's very much
• 1:41:36
  not it's not talked about as much, but you know, I see it
• 1:41:44
  a lot when I'm talking to people, and you know, I have seen
• 1:41:46
  it with with both men and women. So I mean, it's not like
• 1:41:50
  it's just one thing, but this is something that's commonly used against men,
• 1:41:55
  you know, so like for example, to make claims about the man being
• 1:42:00
  abusive or or things like that in order to get custody of the children and
• 1:42:05
  kind of lock him out of his children's lives. And it's it's actually,
• 1:42:11
  I would say for many people, it's it's one of the more damaging forms
• 1:42:15
  of abuse because you know, it goes back to the whole sticks and stones
• 1:42:19
  may break my bones thing. But it's like this, this kind of abuse
• 1:42:24
  can have very, very far reaching consequences for people. Yeah, you can
• 1:42:30
  cause somebody to uh end up in jail. You can cause somebody to lose
• 1:42:35
  their relationships with people. You can cause somebody to lose their job, you
• 1:42:41
  can cause somebody to kill themselves. You know, there's you can take away
• 1:42:45
  somebody's relationship with their children, which can cause them to kill themselves. So
• 1:42:49
  there there's a whole lot of yeah, and it's unfortunate that it doesn't get
• 1:42:57
  discussed more often. Side of the men's rights movement, it's very rarely addressed,
• 1:43:04
  and the behavior is protected under the Violence Against Women Act. The court
• 1:43:12
  system is discouraged from prosecuting crimes like perjury, lying to police during an investigation,
• 1:43:21
  and filing false complaints restraining order abuse if they are done by somebody who
• 1:43:30
  is alleging while particularly a woman who is alleging intimate partner violence or sexual violence.
• 1:43:36
  Anybody else does it, they they'll, you know, they'll prosecute.
• 1:43:40
  If you were dealing, you're engaging in assurance fraud, they'll prosecute. If
• 1:43:45
  you were doing it as a as a means of protecting yourself from getting convicted
• 1:43:53
  of a crime you committed, they'll prosecute. But if you falsely accused your
• 1:43:59
  female and you fall accused a man of hitting or raping you, and you
• 1:44:02
  engaged in those those process crimes, they ignore them, so that facilitates those
• 1:44:12
  he goes on. A study ungendered bullying states suggested or styles, suggested that
• 1:44:17
  girls are much more likely to engage in relational aggression within same sex groups compared
• 1:44:24
  to boys, who are more likely to be physically aggressive. Similarly, in
• 1:44:28
  the workplace, women colleagues are more likely than male colleagues to be passive aggressive
• 1:44:32
  and socially aggressive with each other. Well, they're more likely than men.
• 1:44:41
  Men are more likely to cooperate with each other. They find reasons to cooperate
• 1:44:45
  with each other even if they hate each other, Like even if they really
• 1:44:48
  detest each other, they need to get ship done, they will work shoulder
• 1:44:54
  to shoulder. But women, I just went through that actually at work checked
• 1:45:00
  it out mad because I was good at my job, not better than she
• 1:45:08
  was at her job, just that she wasn't better than I was at the
• 1:45:12
  job. Like that's it, And it's set off a year of behaviors that
• 1:45:21
  were just toddlerish. Honestly, it's so embarrassing. I know, it was
• 1:45:28
  like, we're really going to do this, but yeah. Notably, relational
• 1:45:34
  aggression is not limited to just interactions between women. It can also show up
• 1:45:39
  in mixed sex friendships and relationships between women and men. Further, relational aggression
• 1:45:45
  can manifest cross generationally, spilling over into parenting is discussed in Jeanette McCurdy's memoir
• 1:45:53
  Of Course he has to site a female victim. Why I'm glad my mother
• 1:45:58
  died. I'm sure that there have probably been books written by abused men who
• 1:46:06
  maybe they didn't title it that way, they weren't quite so blatant about it,
• 1:46:13
  but that talked about their abuse relational aggression and otherwise by their mothers that
• 1:46:21
  he could have cited as as examples of, you know, an author who
• 1:46:27
  wrote about being abused by a mother as a child. But I mean,
• 1:46:31
  I know women are more likely to talk about it. But in any case,
• 1:46:40
  Yeah, that book recently came out. That book names sounds familiar.
• 1:46:46
  Statement that was from Wheah, I just lost it. There we go,
• 1:46:55
  salt, Peter Taffy. Yes, a child called it Ratmas. That's one
• 1:46:59
  right there. That one is horrible. The experience that the child went through
• 1:47:05
  the book is just gut wrenching. And I couldn't finish it. I couldn't.
• 1:47:11
  My kid was young, and all I could think of was like,
• 1:47:14
  it's one of those books that you read a little bit of it, and
• 1:47:15
  you want to just go hug your child and not like go oh like,
• 1:47:23
  I don't understand the behavior and it is sickening. Maybe my response is weird,
• 1:47:33
  but that's like I want to go comfort my kid who hasn't been wounded
• 1:47:36
  or injured by me because I read about some other mother who is a monster.
• 1:47:45
  I think that's called just you know, being a normal, healthy parent,
• 1:47:48
  you know, and I don't. I don't think that most of us
• 1:47:51
  like to hear these kinds of stories about other people being like that. Yeah.
• 1:47:59
  Yeah, so let's see, we were at yet both relational aggression.
• 1:48:02
  Oh wait, no, I missed one. A significant overlap ex just between
• 1:48:05
  feminine relational aggression and classical power, the classical power and control tactics of psychological
• 1:48:12
  abuse, particularly covert narcissistic abuse. Or perhaps perhaps it's not just significant overlap.
• 1:48:25
  Perhaps female relational aggression is covert narcissistic abuse. Has nobody considered that that
• 1:48:38
  perhaps there are high functioning narcissists out there engaging in this kind of behavior,
• 1:48:45
  that that's female relational aggression. I think that honestly, a lot of people
• 1:48:53
  probably just don't give much thoughts to it, you know. I feel like
• 1:48:56
  most people are just you know, following the assumptions that most abusers are men.
• 1:49:02
  And that's the long and short of its, right, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:49:09
  And I just wonder, you know, you raise somebody to think they're
• 1:49:12
  too important to get their hands dirty because of their sex? Does that not
• 1:49:15
  foster a bit of narcissism? Just thinking about it? Yet, both relational
• 1:49:28
  aggression and physical or psychological abuse can be covered up with rationalizations that are illegal
• 1:49:32
  and socially acceptable at face value. This unfortunate reality complicates getting accountability for either,
• 1:49:40
  which can lead to bitterness and particularly for male survivors who are unlikely to
• 1:49:45
  be believed anyway. Misogyny slash misogynoi what the hell? So again, we're
• 1:49:55
  focusing on women, We're centering women in it to discussion about male victims.
• 1:50:01
  Were centering women and analysis of women's behavior and analysis of men's failures toward women
• 1:50:14
  because they were victims. Like that's it. It really is like this this
• 1:50:20
  really bizarre hesitancy to talk proper about the topic at hand. And it's like
• 1:50:28
  and yet they wonder why many men have difficulty talking about their experiences, you
• 1:50:35
  know, It's it's like we can't have an honest discussion about what their real
• 1:50:41
  experiences are. And yet so it's it's men's fault for not being able to
• 1:50:46
  talk about it correctly. Men haven't been socialized to talk about it correctly.
• 1:50:51
  It's like, even you can't talk about it correctly, don't tell me that
• 1:50:56
  men have not been socialized to talk about it, Like, get out of
• 1:51:00
  my face. That well, and I'm looking at this and like, who
• 1:51:03
  socialized him to not talk about it correctly? Because it wasn't the patriarchy.
• 1:51:08
  He's paying homage to feminist narratives about female victimhood and male perpetration. That's not
• 1:51:15
  patriarchy by any any feminist definition. So I'm really quick before we go,
• 1:51:23
  and I'm gonna look that says, so we're at implications for advocates. How
• 1:51:28
  much of this page is advertisement? Okay, so we don't really have that
• 1:51:31
  far to go. We're almost the end of the article, and he has
• 1:51:34
  said very little about actual male victims, and what he has said has been
• 1:51:43
  blamed. So here we go. Patriarchy has no gender. Really, why
• 1:51:51
  do you name it after men? Yeah? Exactly. It's like it's kind
• 1:51:56
  of in the kind of in the title there bell hooks, we are quoting
• 1:52:00
  Bell Hooks, and you know that that that's helpful to male victims. And
• 1:52:05
  the third reason we overlook the victimization of men by women is because we confuse
• 1:52:13
  protecting women from patriarchy with dismantling patriarchy, when in fact women can be patriarchal,
• 1:52:26
  those damn fatherly women. I mean, it really is just like this
• 1:52:31
  ubiquitous boogeyman that we can apply to everything. Now, that's that's just what
• 1:52:36
  this is. Yes, women are infected with patriarchy. He as black,
• 1:52:45
  Yeah, as black women is a scholar. Bell Hooks wrote, patriarchy has
• 1:52:49
  no gender. Again, I'm like, why the hell did you name it
• 1:52:54
  after men? And if it has no gender? Took's point, did she
• 1:53:01
  have a habit of not capitalizing her name because he hasn't capitalized her name?
• 1:53:10
  I wonder if that was a thing. I did that for a while in
• 1:53:15
  junior high because I was lazy, and I tried to make up a reason
• 1:53:21
  why, you know, it was cool, but really I just was lazy
• 1:53:27
  and my teachers really weird one. It's like, oh, it's probably a
• 1:53:31
  typo, But then I looked up and it's like, no, he hasn't
• 1:53:34
  done that. For three times. Now, Wait, what's going on here?
• 1:53:39
  My English teacher called me on it. She's like, you just don't
• 1:53:41
  want to write capital letters and you don't want to type capital letters, and
• 1:53:44
  that's it. I was like, yeah, you're you're right, as she
• 1:53:49
  was. I was just lazy, So he says, to Hook's point,
• 1:53:59
  patrio racle domination is a social system and ideology that is conditioned and socialized into
• 1:54:04
  everyone, including girls and women, in the form of internalized patriarchy. It's
• 1:54:13
  actually really good with some butter and honey. Oh wait, no, that
• 1:54:19
  was cream of wheat again. Damn it, I keep mixing the two up.
• 1:54:26
  Yeah. Operationalizing patriarchy in terms of hegemonic values, like that is the
• 1:54:38
  shortest word solid I've ever read. Yeah, it's like it seems like you
• 1:54:44
  yourself are having trouble with in finger quotes, operationalizing patriarchy because it seems like
• 1:54:49
  a thing that you can just apply to it. Now, Like, Okay,
• 1:54:54
  my bedroom mirror is patriarchy because I can, I don't know, look
• 1:55:00
  at it and I can see myself and it has a male gaze or something.
• 1:55:03
  My fan is patriarchy because it was made by a man. I don't
• 1:55:09
  know. I can. I can come up with anything. We can just
• 1:55:11
  keep going. If we want to patriarchy here, patriarchy there. From me,
• 1:55:16
  everybody is patriarchy, has big red pointed out patriarchy fuck face. I
• 1:55:25
  still want a patriarchy fuck face cartoon. I think that there should be a
• 1:55:32
  cartoon character or comic character named patriarchy fuck face, because I think that would
• 1:55:40
  be hilarious. But we don't have that, and I suck at drawing,
• 1:55:45
  so if somebody creates it, it won't be me. People won't won't be
• 1:55:51
  able to figure out what the hell that picture is supposed to depict. Op
• 1:56:00
  rationalizing, I've never heard that as a word before. Feminists like to do
• 1:56:03
  that. They take words instead of saying what would operationalizing mean? So to
• 1:56:12
  make something operational, you you cause it to function, right, you build
• 1:56:20
  it up or make it reel, you know, make it physical like the
• 1:56:30
  Death Stars for fully operational after its construction has been completed. Right, it's
• 1:56:35
  finished, they finished building. It's fully operational, or at least they've finished
• 1:56:41
  building the functional moving parts. Right. So operationalization would basically just be making
• 1:56:50
  something fully operational, building it or or manifesting it to the point where it
• 1:56:58
  functions. So making paypree functional in terms of its hegemonic values, assumptions,
• 1:57:06
  and aims instead of simply attributing it to biological sex can be enlightened, enlightening
• 1:57:13
  experience for male survivors of abuse by women who exhibit patterns of behavior that reflect
• 1:57:18
  patriarchal socialization. That it doesn't make sense once you start to define the word
• 1:57:30
  in terms of the meaning of its parts. Yeah, well, I mean,
• 1:57:39
  that's that's the problem, because that's what operationalizing something is supposed to be.
• 1:57:45
  It's supposed to make it into something that you can define so that you
• 1:57:48
  can apply the word to other scenarios so that everybody knows what it is you're
• 1:57:53
  talking about, right, Yeah, so that things can be replicated, so
• 1:57:59
  that you can understand what it is that everybody's discussing. And I don't know,
• 1:58:06
  it just seems like a weirdly made up word the was created in order
• 1:58:15
  to avoid using a phrase that would be more clearly understood if it was used
• 1:58:20
  instead. Yeah, but that's just my two cents on that. Yet,
• 1:58:29
  gender essentialism gets in the way. Gender essentialism the notion that women and men
• 1:58:33
  are monolithic demographics and that any observable distinctions are rooted in fundamental differences that are
• 1:58:42
  allegedly innate and intrinsic. Biologizes gender in a way that makes it impossible to
• 1:58:48
  account for male victims and female perpetrators. No, that's that's another bullshit one.
• 1:58:56
  Here. He is basically saying that recognizing there are biological differences on average
• 1:59:01
  between male and female human beings, which is true, makes it impossible to
• 1:59:10
  recognize male victims because we know, I think that men are physically larger and
• 1:59:16
  stronger on average than women. But it doesn't because we can recognize when someone
• 1:59:23
  uses a knife or a gun, or a poison or a pot of boiling
• 1:59:26
  water, attacks someone while they're sleeping drunk in public and in not allowed to
• 1:59:31
  hit back, you know, or otherwise like threatening to harm the children,
• 1:59:39
  threatening to boil the dog, the many different things that women can do to
• 1:59:45
  hurt a man. Well, you know you're not home all the time,
• 1:59:48
  you better watch out for your pets, you know, like those kind of
• 1:59:54
  things. You could recognize that those are abusive behaviors. Regardless of this,
• 1:59:59
  I to the man, I would think, unless you know, you're a
• 2:00:05
  sociopath. Yeah, just again, just my two cents, But I would
• 2:00:15
  think you would have to be a raving nut job to think that it has
• 2:00:21
  no effect whatsoever on a person to face that kind of abuse. Well,
• 2:00:30
  I mean, yeah, you would think it would be obvious. But I
• 2:00:33
  mean, for some reason, there is a real blind spot, one might
• 2:00:38
  say, a bias, yeah wink against male victims where their experiences are somehow
• 2:00:45
  minimized or treated as you know, lesser than women's experiences. Something to try
• 2:00:53
  to rush through the last couple of paragraphs really quick, if you've got like
• 2:00:57
  five minutes. This is this is a rough one. When we operationalize patriarchy
• 2:01:03
  beyond gender essentialism, however, we can see beneath the surface of abuse and
• 2:01:09
  focus on the core characteristic of patriarchal control and dominance rather than the perpetrators sex
• 2:01:15
  assigned at birth. So basically, when women abuse, it's not their fault,
• 2:01:20
  it's patriarchy. Am I reading that right? More or less, it's
• 2:01:26
  never women's faults, That's what I thought. In turn, mail survivors of
• 2:01:31
  abuse by women can feel validated and witnessed because that's what men think about,
• 2:01:41
  decreasing the likelihood that trauma radicalizes them into misogyny out of frustration that their pain
• 2:01:47
  seems invisible and incomprehensible to broader society. Thus, it is critical for victims
• 2:01:55
  advocates to realize that when mail survivors are able to contextualize their victimization and traumatization
• 2:02:01
  by women, particularly by a historical, political, religious, scientific, and
• 2:02:08
  psychological contexts about patriarchal domination, they are arguably less likely to bond with other
• 2:02:15
  men over misogyny and less likely to be emboldened into And this this blew my
• 2:02:20
  mind. Recidivism. Do you know what that word means. Yes, it
• 2:02:28
  is when a criminal, after they have been through the supposed rehabilitation process of
• 2:02:34
  incarceration and whatever therapies have been assigned to them, ends up incarcerated again because
• 2:02:42
  they went right back and committed another crime. Yeah, it's like it really
• 2:02:50
  really is, Like this guy is just trolling and completely forgot what he was
• 2:02:56
  writing about because his focus just has been on that at all. He's blaming
• 2:03:01
  men for male abuse. Men as a population are being blamed for women engaging
• 2:03:10
  individually in abusive individual men. So he says, in almost all cases,
• 2:03:18
  it's healthy for survivors to realize their perpetrators attempted to gain power and control over
• 2:03:24
  them because they lacked a sense of power and control in their own life.
• 2:03:29
  Moreover, in instances of legal abuse or malicious prosecution that hinge on false allegations,
• 2:03:35
  it's healthier for a male survivor to understand his abuser's motive for victim playing,
• 2:03:41
  rather than resign himself to misogynistic distrust. I will say some things about
• 2:03:48
  that, but not yet. Practically speaking, too, Deconstructing patriarchy toward these
• 2:03:55
  ends is ultimately the most productive. Most of all, it's important for victims
• 2:04:00
  advocates to consider how psycho education about patriarchy can prepare mail survivors for the possibility
• 2:04:08
  that accountability and justice may never come. It is an inevitable fact of life
• 2:04:13
  that people get away with mistreating others often, and often avoid guilt by villainizing
• 2:04:20
  their victims. Fortunately, the truth is not coming to light does not have
• 2:04:25
  to feel like the end of the world for male survivors anymore than it has
• 2:04:30
  to be confirmation of misogynistic stereotypes. Right, yeah, And so you know
• 2:04:38
  we should probably just say this thing, the same thing about women victims rights
• 2:04:42
  that you know that they'll just get away with it and that's okay, Or
• 2:04:47
  do we have a problem with it when we say it about women. Maybe
• 2:04:51
  we should stop minimizing their experience is just because they're men and treat it with
• 2:04:59
  the same amount of consideration and seriousness that we treat women victims. Yeah,
• 2:05:04
  but I mean, maybe that's just me being idealistic, because this guy did
• 2:05:09
  just write an entire essay that only talked briefly about male victims in the footnote,
• 2:05:14
  So what do I know. It's it's really amazing he got through that
• 2:05:18
  whole article and pretty much the overwhelming majority of the article centered women, right
• 2:05:28
  to use their language, centered women and concern for women, And you know,
• 2:05:35
  and in an article that was supposed to be about victims of female perpetrators
• 2:05:41
  of abuse and in particular male victims of female perpetrators of abuse, but it
• 2:05:47
  was more important to say what about the women? And I look at this
• 2:05:53
  that one line about recidivism, recidivism into what, Yeah, it's like they
• 2:06:00
  haven't offended in the first place in many cases, So I don't know,
• 2:06:05
  right and through this guy and like, considering what he said in this this
• 2:06:12
  second to the last paragraph about psycho education, about patriarchy preparing male survivors for
• 2:06:16
  the possibility that accountability and justice may never come. That has nothing to do
• 2:06:20
  with patriarchy. That's kind of centrism, right. Accountability and justice don't come
• 2:06:26
  for victims of female perpetrators because our society prioritizes women's interests over those of men.
• 2:06:36
  That's not patriarchal. So, and I just I don't know in any
• 2:06:45
  case, there's there was something else I was going to point out, Oh
• 2:06:54
  about the malicious prosecution, it's healthier for a male survivor to understand his abuser's
• 2:07:00
  motive for victim playing rather than resign himself to misogynistic distrust. Really, really,
• 2:07:10
  that's a false allegation right there. When you look at male victims of
• 2:07:15
  malicious prosecution by female accusers trying to manipulate the family court system or their family
• 2:07:24
  or gain attention or whatever, right, they don't develop a brand new distrust
• 2:07:31
  of women. They develop a distrust of the system to protect them if a
• 2:07:39
  woman happens to be another sociopath willing to do that to them, And they
• 2:07:47
  learn that they haven't been able to judge the character of the women that they
• 2:07:53
  have associated themselves with because they were vulnerable to that one false accuser, and
• 2:08:00
  so they lose trust in their ability to vet women for character to avoid this
• 2:08:05
  situation in the future. And I have seen victims of false allegations blame themselves
• 2:08:13
  over and over again for being falsely accused because of that last bit. So
• 2:08:18
  for this guy to turn around and call them misogynists is such bullshit. But
• 2:08:26
  but that's it. That's like my conclusion on this is that he wanted to
• 2:08:31
  write an article about men or women and get men's advocates to read it and
• 2:08:41
  think that it was you know, helpful and and so on, and maybe
• 2:08:46
  didn't understand that we see through all the bullshit and aren't going to fall for
• 2:08:52
  the idea that we should blame men for women's abuse of men. Yeah.
• 2:09:01
  Alas, Yeah, I'm gonna have to. Yeah, but thank you for
• 2:09:05
  for being on to talk about this, because it's quite a hell of an
• 2:09:11
  article. Oh gosh, this article is a motherfucker. But it's always nice
• 2:09:15
  to get to come on and vent with you guys and trying not to be
• 2:09:18
  so much of a stranger. Yeah, I know, well, and being
• 2:09:22
  a parrot of young kids makes you really busy, So I understanding that too,
• 2:09:28
  But yeah, thanks very much for coming on, and thanks for staying
• 2:09:33
  over a few minutes. No worries, and hope to see you guys again
• 2:09:37
  soon. I hope to see you soon too. And I don't know if
• 2:09:41
  Lauren and Mike or don't know if you guys are awake, but thanks for
• 2:09:43
  coming on as well. Oh good, I think Lauren's asleep. Yeah,
• 2:09:48
  I'm still here wishing I was asleep. You guys, this article might make
• 2:09:56
  a guy feel that way though, Like this article has already put a large
• 2:10:03
  to sleep and she tried to engage with this bullshit, but she's she's out
• 2:10:11
  for the count now and I'm not long behind. Yeah, I mean the
• 2:10:16
  psychobabble is mind to numbing. That alone, it makes it difficult. I
• 2:10:22
  had when I read the article. I tried to read it after work.
• 2:10:26
  That was a mistake because I work at night, and I get up in
• 2:10:31
  the morning, or get get up in the morning. I get home in
• 2:10:33
  the morning and I come in the door and I take melatonin and then I
• 2:10:39
  listen to things that make me sleepy and then I go to sleep. But
• 2:10:43
  instead I read this article and the next thing I knew, I was waking
• 2:10:50
  up with a crick in my neck from my desk chair because I fell asleep,
• 2:10:56
  so I had to read it at work because it's the psychobabble, Just
• 2:11:03
  does it? You have to like? All right? So they have invented
• 2:11:05
  a word to replace this phrase in that phrase. What do they mean?
• 2:11:11
  I have to look this word up Pete's sake. That's not what it sounds
• 2:11:13
  like. It means, you know, and that kind of shit. And
• 2:11:18
  in the end, I think the psychobabble is supposed to make it so hard
• 2:11:22
  for you to get through the article that you don't have the energy left to
• 2:11:26
  get mad about the fact that ultimately what he said is that it's men's fault
• 2:11:31
  that women abuse men. So in any case, you're aware of what you're
• 2:11:41
  falling asleep too. Folks. Yeah, if you're going to pick something,
• 2:11:45
  you ought to be rain noise or you know, just white noise, sorry,
• 2:11:48
  not brown noise. Don't fall asleep to brown noise unless you want to
• 2:11:54
  wake up with a problem that you know what the brown noise is, right,
• 2:12:01
  then there's no There is such a thing as the brown noise, and
• 2:12:09
  it's slightly less comforting than white noise. Ask the sound engineer. I guess
• 2:12:16
  I'm a sound engineer. Don't ask me. I don't know ship genuinely though,
• 2:12:22
  I fall asleep to Creepy Pasta and don't have nightmares from that. So
• 2:12:28
  mister Bond's good to fall asleep too, isn't he. And he's basically he's
• 2:12:33
  basically creepy pasta channel. Yep. Well, there's a there's a bunch of
• 2:12:37
  them. There's a bunch of them on like and and reddit readers right like
• 2:12:43
  different different like the Reddit Aliens subreddit where they ask questions and people answer and
• 2:12:50
  stuff, and you get a bunch of little individual stories and you learn about
• 2:12:54
  things that people have experienced, stuff like that. But it's the tone of
• 2:13:01
  voice and the way the the rhythm of the read and everything. Although probably
• 2:13:09
  the most soothing out of all of those is, in my opinion, there's
• 2:13:13
  a guy that goes by Creepsmickpasta, which is, you know, like he
• 2:13:18
  sounds like he's going to be this upbeat kind of guy, but he actually
• 2:13:24
  reads like a dad reading to his kids, and you know, or an
• 2:13:31
  older brother reading to a little sister, a little brother, you know,
• 2:13:33
  and and it just it's a very bedtime story, is sound to the story
• 2:13:43
  on YouTube. It is men reading bedstime bedtime stories to the kids. It
• 2:13:48
  is I guess it would be, but I assume it's going to be called
• 2:13:54
  misogynist and patriarchal at some point. Oh yeah, everything everything that you do
• 2:13:58
  in life, normally people have videotaped it and put it on YouTube. But
• 2:14:05
  but yeah, that's so. I like, I prefer stuff like that to
• 2:14:09
  static. And you know, if I'm someplace like where where I'm staying at
• 2:14:15
  a hotel or something, then I play box fan noise. There's actually a
• 2:14:18
  video on YouTube of ten hours of a box fan the noise of a box
• 2:14:22
  fan with a black screen so it doesn't light up the room, and you
• 2:14:26
  just plug your phone in and you play that, and it's longer than you're
• 2:14:31
  going to sleep, And you know, fine, You've got to be jealous
• 2:14:35
  of people who could actually sleep in silence, Like how does that work?
• 2:14:39
  Like in sober silence, you can just lie there over in total silence and
• 2:14:46
  just fall asleep. If I'm really do that must be amazing. You see.
• 2:14:52
  I grew up following asleep to the sound of an air conditioner because of
• 2:14:56
  my asthma, and a few times I wasn't falling asleep to the sound of
• 2:15:01
  an air conditioner. I was falling asleep to the sound of one of those
• 2:15:07
  major fire hazard heaters that had a metal ribbon inside the heater that would turn
• 2:15:13
  bright red and the thing would go oh all night, like they'll get used
• 2:15:22
  to it. But honestly, if those I hadn't had those sounds, I
• 2:15:26
  would have grown up falling asleep to the sounds of frogs, the you know,
• 2:15:33
  the trilling of frogs, because they were everywhere where I grew up,
• 2:15:37
  so silence wasn't going to be a thing no matter what. And to this
• 2:15:43
  day, like every time I've gone camping, I've fallen asleep to that.
• 2:15:46
  Right to this day, that sound makes me sleepy being out, you know
• 2:15:50
  at night and you hear frogs, and people think they're they're hearing crickets.
• 2:15:56
  But I've noticed that because I've been in Connecticut for the last two months,
• 2:16:01
  and when I go outside for a month, I keep hearing this constant noise
• 2:16:05
  of yeah, that's that's frogs and frogs and toast it's frogs. There's not
• 2:16:09
  even that much standing water around. Yeah, apparently there's frogs everywhere. Well,
• 2:16:15
  they'll live in your garden. They don't have to have a body of
• 2:16:18
  water. They're amphibious. They can live in the water, but they can
• 2:16:20
  also live on land, so they I mean like, they live wherever they
• 2:16:24
  can find bugs to eat and there's enough moisture that their skin doesn't dry out,
• 2:16:30
  you know. So they like Ohio because Ohio is really humid. But
• 2:16:33
  yeah, so, but I follow this article knocked me out when I first
• 2:16:37
  read it. It was and it is. It's the psychobabble. It's it
• 2:16:41
  feels like it's intended to be desensitizing, because it's a lot easier if you
• 2:16:50
  desensitize somebody to pull some shit without them noticing that you are pulling some shit.
• 2:16:56
  Right, But with that, I probably ought to end it because I'm
• 2:17:03
  gonna get us into the aftershow. So the Patron Only after show, I'm
• 2:17:09
  going to show the title of the article that we're going over in the Patron
• 2:17:13
  Only after show. This this time, this is not a new article.
• 2:17:18
  I was in a discussion on Twitter and somebody referenced a parody book about training
• 2:17:28
  women to serve and please men, and it was an obvious parody, and
• 2:17:35
  there's a male version, How to Train your Man Too, which is also
• 2:17:39
  a parody. Both of those books are jokes. They're not intended to for
• 2:17:43
  people to take them seriously, right, But this, this was intended to
• 2:17:48
  be taken seriously Cosmopolitan magazine, which doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. And
• 2:17:58
  this is this is from two thousand nine. There was a similar article that
• 2:18:01
  I read and I found this one when I was looking for that article.
• 2:18:07
  I want to say early nineties, like maybe ninety three or ninety four,
• 2:18:11
  also in Cosmopolitan magazine. It was almost identical to this Six Ways to Train
• 2:18:16
  your boyfriend. And then they say, we don't believe men are dogs,
• 2:18:22
  but some behavior molding techniques used on canines and other beasts can work on a
• 2:18:28
  guy. You may never have to nag again. So that's that's going to
• 2:18:33
  be what we're gonna go over. And you have to show that article.
• 2:18:41
  Yeah, it's a real article intended to be taken seriously and used. So
• 2:18:48
  there you go. Thanks everybody for listening, and thanks to everybody who worked
• 2:18:52
  in the background to make HBr Talk happen. And again thanks my co hosts
• 2:18:56
  for sticking out this long sausage with me. A good night all,