Latest / Operation Game Night / Draughtnauts by LazArt Studios

Transcript

Draughtnauts by LazArt Studios · Operation Game Night

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Operation Game Night Podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're back and better than ever.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just me today as your host, Travis.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm joined today by John Lazration, who is the creator and the developer for a game called DraftNots.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: John, how are you doing?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me on.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just jump right in.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Draft Knots.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us a brief description of this game?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Draft Knots is a collectible, expandable uh tabletop game set in a sci-fi universe.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's based on checkers.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the gameplay is checker style, so it's really sort of uh very easy entry into a tabletop gaming world.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's customizable.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's based around these champion pieces, which have their own backstories.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can mix and match the champion pieces.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: They have intangible armor pieces to kind of really customize the whole checkers experience because really what is checkers?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been around for 5,000 years, and it's just one one black piece, one red piece, or whatever, and it's just the simple movement.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: The mechanics are really kind of great though, the the strategy is still there.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So what I've done is just sort of added a little bit of character flair to it, um, and just kind of made it because I I'm someone that uh I I love the tabletop gaming world, like like Warhammer and some of the real all those like really complex stuff.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: That stuff is like it's so incredibly uh awesome to me, but it's just like it's the doing it and like getting into it and sort of like uh in order to get into that world, it just feels so daunting.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I wanted to do, especially because uh I've my my family kind of helps with my son, uh, who when I first started this was was much younger, but now is actually helping with aspects of the game.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to kind of bring this into something that was a little easier to understand and kind of do checkers, you know, simple mechanics, but you add your character to it, you add, you know, you can follow it with a with a broader story than what was just simple pieces.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So is the story explicit or is it implicit with you developing your characters kind of on your own?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can customize the little pawns that are out there that are moving around the board like checkers, and you're equipping armor and stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Does that have an impact on the game?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it largely just like I don't know, like something like Beyblades, where like this blade looks cooler than your blade, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how much story is there actually in this game, or is it more like superficial, like uh just kind of making cool characters fight it out?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it sort of starts off at at like that, where it's it's uh an aesthetic.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like uh the the game pieces that I've I do everything myself.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this entire endeavor, or this uh actually the the shop's been open for now uh in a year, so really the whole thing's been about a year, a little longer in uh just getting out there and being public with it all.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so it started off as being more of an aesthetic sort of thing, like, oh, this is a cool helmet or this is a cool sword.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the uh the and maybe I'll have to jump back into uh a little more of the backstory of this whole experience, but uh it really could be something where the one weapon has a different power-up ability, or the shield has a power-up ability, and the whole thing is expandable in that way where um as this grows and as a community of of of uh you know gamers and and makers and followers build upon this, that they might add, oh well, what if the sword does this gameplay mechanic?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what if this does that?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's sort of this you know community aspect of growing the actual game from what is a base checkers level.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be honest, you don't even have to play draft knots.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Use check almost everybody's probably got a checkers board, like checkers, chests, and all sort of the same thing.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Use the draft knots as just replacements for those pieces, and now you've just got something more customizable, but the game expands from there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, right now this there's a draft knots rules that are a little different than checkers, but it goes from there.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe if someone has an idea, or if we come up with ideas for all for anything else with the customizable pieces, that is just means the the game is just has more room to grow.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's uh just more opportunity there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So relying more on like fan inputs and fan builds as this game grows, like you know, uh people talk about root on just about every board gaming podcast.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like one of the perfect asymmetric war games out there.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But so many of these factions that exist, at least on the internet, are fan developed and tested, and they go out there and it's like this homegrown thing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then the team at Leader Games occasionally will adopt some of those changes, adopt some of those rules and make it their own.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that you're looking at doing um as the fans start to input more rules and more customization options into this game?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's as the community grows, it's sort of one of those things where um you know it starts off with uh I always called it like you know, the barons and the nocters, because it's like there's kind of like you know, there's a voting class, and then there's a you know, that you just have general input and and accessibility.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So as this kind of grows, it was like as people enter the community and want to voice their opinions on on like I want to, I always like to think of it as like this creative sandbox, not so much like a Minecraft, where but like where as people as people grow into it, uh or as the game grows and people come into it more, and they say, like, oh well, maybe this is a good idea, and we have like you know, the community group votes on those kind of things.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing started off as me 3D printing these.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this so as as it is currently, these are 3D printed.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I do all the designing in-house, and I do everything from the um the great state of New Jersey, and we're just so it's just just me and my my home little studio here uh with a couple printers, and that's how it all started.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I I work with a print on demand partner for some of the bread and butter stuff that can like kind of really get the game out there.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the best part, the best part is that everything is sort of uh you know in the confines of the country.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I really I don't have to worry about studying sitting on the water or holding an inventory.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So at the moment, everything is just sort of you want a set of draft nuts, you know, either the ones that I'm making sort of exclusively at the you know at a on a per VM basis, or the actual two-player set that you can get that you get you get the customer, you choose the player ones color, you choose player two color, and the game mat, and then you can start from there and build off from that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really it from that 3D printing market, you know, I kind of building maker world.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like, well, there we go.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's another aspect of the growth where now you uh you know, you would I would offer up the SDL files to as a as an option, something I'm pursuing.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, now we have makers that are printing their own styles and adding that into the universe.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's more than just the game because really um the game is just is a beautiful way to bring people as I keep I've been saying this, bring people to the table.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like we're living in such a world now where tabletop gaming is just it's such an awesome thing to have as that, like um, you know, bringing people in to engage more.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, leave the screens and like I as much as I love video games, uh, you know, coming to having a moment to come down for my my family and I to sit at the table and play a fun game is is uh uh more than more than what I would like to see for this.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So like having expand to people bringing their own ideas has been a huge focus from the beginning.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and board gamings are a great conduit for that, right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it brings people together.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's go let's go back for a moment to when you first came up with this idea.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: You said you wanted something simple like checkers, you wanted to like be able to play with your kid at the time.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh talk about like your design efforts, at least getting started.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: How did you play test this?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how did you um work on the art style?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because this game is very art stylized.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of love the like 90s computer graphics type characters that you have going on, and the the playmats themselves look like they are ripped out of Windows 95, and I love it.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh talk to talk to me about like kind of your design philosophy and uh where that all came from.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the um this really started, this goes back to 2015.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I have been, I'm a toy guy.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been into toys into and uh specifically like custom toys.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a moment in where I was like really big into like custom pops, and I was making, I was like, um, you know, making making that world, I was staying in that world.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always been sort of a maker.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have two I have two fine arts degrees.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've been in the arts for like my whole life uh and my and my career.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I've but I've always I've always wanted to make stuff more, like you know, so the uh when I when 3D printing kind of came around, this is 2015, where it's like it's not really around, but I I built a wooden 3D printer of all things, okay, and uh it like it barely worked, it really didn't work at all.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it made the first draft knot, and I was and it made it out of like eight pieces, and it was like I had to put them all together, and I didn't know what I was doing at all.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had no clue, but it was making them then all of a sudden the things start going, and I'm like, whoa, I'm making toys, and all of a sudden one printer became you know, one kit printer became a nicer printer, became six printers, became oh make oh my god, I'm making a lot of these draft knots.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: What am I doing with this?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, well, maybe a game, maybe it becomes the game.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is again, this is like 2018 when I really started getting the game moving, and I was printing, you know, checkers is 12 versus 12.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was making 12 pieces, each made of eight little pieces.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was kind of in my basement for for you know uh for the rest of my life.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I I started play testing that idea, that checkers idea, and it was a very grand idea.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Each each armor had their own mechanic, and it was it was vast and grand.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of like jumped right into it, and I started working with the factory and trying to actually even kind of like make get budgets going, figuring, figuring this out.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the playtesting was solid.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really, really great response from it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is 2019, and the at the very end of 2019, um, just everybody kind of knows what happens in 2020, and then so it was like all of a sudden, it was just one thing after another that was just like, okay, I'm not a business guy, I had my own job, and it was sort of like, well, let's put this on the back burner.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So DraftNAS kind of put that on the back burner, but um lo and behold, 2015, 2025 rolled around last year.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 3D printing is been astonishingly easier to use now.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: The machines are so much easier to access.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so again, one printer turned into two printers, turned into oh my god, I'm making the game again.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And but it's so much more solid now.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like it just it was easier to print, and now the the I don't the ease of the getting it made is so much simpler that I was able to fully focus on just the artwork and then just the actual making sure this is something that is you know makes sense because it's like who to be honest, who really just wants a best version of checkers?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it was like there's gotta be some greater story to it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So over the past year, I've been trying to develop more of a of a mythos of uh of a grand epic sort of that tells the stale, the tale of the draft knots that then you can take that into the game and then be like, oh, this is that base, and this is they have that rivalry with this base, and you know, it kind of like builds that upon, you know, a an original story that has, you know, I'm I'm uh I come from a filmmaking background, so like and and storytelling background.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of a lot of my history and education and academia is in this, so it's like like, oh, I feel like it's a life's work kind of coming together and building building this world and around a game, and then I can make the social media.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like uh as much as that as as it pains at times to be a solopreneur, just sort of doing all of this, it's you know, it it's um it's fun to create.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So and and this game has been has been you know an excellent motivator to that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the you know, simple design.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So like I designed all of this stuff that you were asking.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I designed all of it in SketchUp.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not a I'm not a 3D designer, I'm an editor, I'm a digital digital, you know, I'm a digital, I work in the digital realm, but not necessarily in in uh you know designing 3D modeling.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I use SketchUp to create the models, and uh so um you can see there's a lot of like architecturalness in them.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's like they're very geometric, which is sort of like me playing into my abilities as you know within the uh software.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it turns out that it just like it, you know, it works for checkers, but and then in this environment with 3D printing, it just sort of works.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um the mass themselves, you say Windows 95, this is really funny because I I think I designed them in paint.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm pr I'm pretty sure I designed those in, and this is again the 2015, like 2016 when I was first doing all this stuff, and like I just like I think I just threw I threw together a bunch of like tiles and paints, and I just I think I I think it actually even started off as like an Excel frame.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then that because just to make them all the same size, and then I dumped that into paint.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was just really kind of like whatever.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then as it but then the designs were actually what I was using for the boards back in 2019 when I was when I was really pushing it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, well, I've got the designs, let me put them on neoprene mess now, which is actually my goal forever.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was I really I love the neoprene mat design for a game mat.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like you can use that for a tape, for it's not just it's multi-purpose, you can just put it on your computer and there you go.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But uh when uh back when I was first designing, it was like$35 per to make them, and it was like so ridiculous.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can't do it, but now it's it's it's much much more feasible to get them and they're printed on demand again, so it's like I can run that with the two-player set.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it really offers like uh you know a uh a beautiful customization to this to this thing.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just exploding in my head anyway.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm hoping it spills that a little bit.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so let's talk production for a minute, since you mentioned it a couple times.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have been printing the pieces, you've been getting the neoprene mats, you've been doing all this stuff, you are selling these as kits, but you also sell the files to people if they have a 3D printer, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm I'm still evolving that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is something that is planned, but like the as I look at the the platforms, because right now uh DropDust is only sold on Etsy.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Etsy is my main marketplace, uh, primarily for the ease.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, I'm a solo, I'm by myself, so the the tax burden is like let me just something I've already preset, at least one of these things is preset.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I everything is sold through Etsy, so you can you can find me there, but um, which actually helps work with my print on demand partners because everything is sort of just you put the order in and I'm and there they go.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So but I but I've been printing uh them.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have um I've been printing exclusive sets and and then individual champion pieces that have more backstory.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been printing like uh as as we go, I've printed actually a number of of one-player sets, exclusive, I would call it studio exclusive sets.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So those are like one player sets or expansion sets to expand your own set or mix and match pieces.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so those ones I print in-house, and those ones are more exclusive.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're different color combination filter uh filaments that are like more like crazier filaments that I'll find.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's unlike, and then they're like maybe more multicolor.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the the the two-player sets that you buy, then you customize those colors, those are sort of base colors that kind of get you into the game.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's certainly not to stop anybody from painting them because I love the idea of people customizing their own, you know, um again, from the Warhammer, the custom end.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was custom pops, I was like, oh, I I love the idea of of of your kit dashing and giving these, you know, offering up a gray set.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So like you just you you take this and you paint whatever color you want, which kind of correlates with the the STL files and printing them your own multicolor.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the the the overall idea is to offer it to people for their own creative end.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how would you paint this?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: What would you what would your base be?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: What would you know, how would you what colors would you find if you know for this?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because the the beautiful thing is I don't have to worry about waiting for a prototype or anything to come.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just you know, a day a day later the machine pops it out and it's like, well, that's there we are.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so and it I uh you know I was looking at the style, and you could have easily designed these like super elaborate minis to go with this game, right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: The wizards and the the you know the giant mechs, or but you have such a simple design that I think it's a great onboarding tool for people that have never painted minis before.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give it a shot.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: What what is the harm in just trying this mini?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's big enough, it's kind of like a chibi looking mech robot looking thing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can put some cool design on there, and those that are brand new to painting might get a kick out of it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those that are expert painters might be able to make these look really freaking detailed and cool.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's like a wide span of enjoyment that you can get out of something like that for those that enjoy painting their minis.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's I mean, like that's sort of a world I come from.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I would rather offer someone more of a blank slate, and then and then I find the most creative people find the most creative things in the most basic.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if like uh and the beautiful thing that happened with draft knots organically is just from generally from my own ignorance in modeling, here's something very basic, but then also sort of and I had a I had somebody come up to me at uh I uh at ToyCon uh last year, and he was he was like, there's something kind of universal about this.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's something that like this uh you want to say cute, but for like warrior fighters, it's like I understand what you're saying, but like yeah, there's something there's something about it that like from what people are telling me is like, oh, there's something you know about them that is it's organic, but it's also mechanical, and they're not like they're not driven.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: These aren't like you know, mechs that are like have like you know people inside them moving around.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're sort of like their own, you know, in their own their own thing.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: They are their own things, their own their own their own galaxy of uh of you know things, but they have this sort of universality to them where you you're like oh, you can kind of fit any sort of uh archetype of you know uh storytelling archetype to it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the fact that they you know the base model is rather simple, but the the armor attachments, the weapons, those can go as crazy as you want.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um certainly um, you know, just because having simple shapes, it gives someone, at least you're right, someone who has never done anything like that before, have like faces to deal with instead of having like you know, some some bold shape where you're like, Oh, I could do anything here, and there's like some limits I don't I think is is okay, especially when you're entering into something you've never you've never done before.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think some of the first minis I ever had the courage to try and paint were like the Marvel United, like chibi looking characters, yeah, because they are kind of like puffy and big and like have larger surfaces that you can get enough detail where it looks cool on the table and they're recognizable characters.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I was never gonna start with some elaborate Warhammer mech that like I'm rather yeah, put to shame by these people online that you spend hundreds of hours on these creations.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've not been an artist.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I I just tell you like coming from like the custom pops, and I would like I would see people do things and I'd be like, like, wow, that is so slick and so sharp.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like then I try to do it, it's like it's like what is what like how did I do that?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so like it's it's kind of fun in a way, also learning how to you know how to solve that puzzle because like like how they they do they did pretty good, like so.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's there must be some way to get that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I always appreciate that stuff.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so let's uh go back and revisit some of your design efforts.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Were there any like big swings that you took with the design that like didn't pan out in playtesting?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you try like a 2v2 mode or like a you know 1v1v1 mode, or did you try some mechanic that didn't work?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um can you talk to us about some of the swings that you took or some of the things that did not go according to plan?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I think what making it really complex at the start was probably a a bad thing at the time.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, not coming from any of this, I don't, I didn't ever made a video, I've never never never made a game before, I never like 3D princing before, and I was all of a sudden doing these things.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but so excuse me, I think the um I think that the the big problem was like going really fast, really fast, and and probably made more so that I did actually have a four-player version of this.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so four-player checkers is kind of crazy, where especially with boards that were rectangular, because the the the draft nuts themselves are not square, they're a little more rectangular.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: So fitting them on a rectangular space made more sense.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: But they uh so what I had to do is design a middle board.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you had what was called the mega board, and it was like sort of a an a another board that you had that people their boards went on top of.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you basically like custom you had your starting world, and then you had like the mega world that you went into, and then now four people are playing in that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, like again, it was sort of like trying to uh excuse me, trying to um, I was trying to make Yeah, um, something happened out of nothing, really.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or I was trying to fit too many things and uh too many ideas.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so the main the main main game testing thing was like like wow, this is really like so how many times can I move this way?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: What happens?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh wait, yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot a lot you didn't think about with a with all of a sudden adding all that other things to it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was a really valuable part of the playtesting, uh, learning to bring it down.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Also, the I mean, like, and this was primarily the the logistics of the printing at the time, not having it be eight pieces, obviously.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But because they were eight pieces, the legs were um uh articulate.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they're they were just kind of plugged in to hold them there.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I had no idea how to attach legs to something else I had made.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I plugged them together, which gave them a little like you know, jingle jangle, which is kind of funny because now the whole like fidget movement is like crazy.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: This probably would have been a great thing.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: But back then everyone's like, why do they move?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you would they and they would land nights, and like they it was like something kind of tactile to it, but they were everyone was always like, why don't you just make them stationary?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are their legs moving?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like uh so uh now they're stationary, everything is one solid piece, so it's uh, and which is actually very helpful for um you know tiny hands or any our young younger players.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh of course I I must say uh that it's adult collectible, uh just for um legality purposes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So don't mind choking out choking on tiny pieces.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um it but it's but the having it having all that kind of come together to be a little more solid was you know a whole part of the part of that game testing thing, which was incredibly valuable.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and also um you know the input about the megaboard.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean that it's still intriguing to me to have a multiplayer version of this.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's two players.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, great, the game moves fast and it's very simple to go.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh to uh to open it up to be more of like like a commander style thing, and and bring and bringing you know it more more multiplayer is you know it's always been there, but I think pulled back to get this rolling again is uh but it is a fun idea.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love I love I love bring I would love to bring that back from that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, John, you can just go ahead and cut the check now because just turn it into a circular board with like Chinese checkers style.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You got big enough spaces where they can fit the big chibis, move them around kind of like Chinese checkers.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's your next uh spin-off, huh?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure don't need upgrade master, easy to circular master probably, no problem.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so what is the avenue to grow this in the future?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you're starting production, you've got a couple of sets printed, you you're ready to start rocking and rolling, you survived COVID, and many designers did not, so congrats to you for pushing through.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how do you grow this in the future?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I saw you did like kind of a indie go-go Kickstarter type-esque uh thing.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is the venue to get people to contribute to this game in the future?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not only to buy it, but like how do you get that community together in one spot to have people start making that fan-made characters, those fan-made armors, those fan-made STLs?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like what where does that live?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so right now I'm I'm very kind of contained.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the the shop is on Etsy, so all of the production is is done through then uh through through there.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right now that there are a certain number of exclusive sets, there's four waves of uh of bases that are available and you can in unique prints.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um the two-player set is obviously uh is is per is per um is pretty on demand.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if you wanted to, you can customize player one set, you customize player two, you choose between five boards designs, and there and you get that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the Etsy place is kind of the main hub for that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've built out a uh newsletter as well that's sort of that's sort of rolling with news and updates.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um that is available as well.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: That uh all of this is is done through my link, um, my link tree.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go onto my my Instagram, you can find the link in the bio there goes to everything.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have set up a Ko-Fi account, so that's something that I want to eventually start putting more effort into because I feel like that's really a good place to get more of the community engagement.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I have a few, I mean, again, it's just me, but like if I the more I get on on board, I'm looking on Discord is a huge opportunity uh again for like the community aspect of com of you know, maybe the the voting, the voting class or the people that you know vote on rules or whatnot, or canon, uh game canon.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh then there's the story, which I'm uh been in developing and writing for the last year and is uh is there.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just uh you know finding that platform.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So really the I got at the moment it's the it's following Instagram, um, check out check out the follow on on Etsy, like the page, like the like the listings, pick up a set if you if uh to is the best way there's to to help you because this is again, this is this is a totally independent venture.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have no gatekeepers, I've got nobody else that's you know, I don't have an inventory to maintain, I don't have you know anybody, I don't have investors or anybody.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's really just sort of uh me on my spare time, but I'm I'm I'm you know, this is again year year one, and uh a lot has happened with a thousand followers in one year.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you know it's probably a modest labustro for a little New Jersey uh home studio, but uh the response the response has been absolutely fantastic from everybody.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I've uh no matter who who uh has made fake comments, uh, you know, the we've made a few sales, which has been fantastic, and I've met a couple people in and point on put a sale, which has been fantastic.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping over the next six months to maybe go to a couple more conventions, maybe get some more playtesting around, actually get more into that universe because uh really um it's it's the eyeballs, it's the it's the ears, and um as it as it as it grows, because you know, um the up the abilities are there.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's so crazy.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm realizing just how many things I can do with the printers.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, and even just yesterday I finished a new champion that had multicolor designs that I've never done before.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I'm exploring new options, but like there's definitely new things coming with design and and uh with bass style, but really the story, I'm like deep in the story, I'm loving that right now, the world building.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cool, rich story, so it's it's fun to it's fun to I can't wait to talk about it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: But like and I and I and offer it to and offer it to more people to see it um to get it out of the head.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the uh so yeah, so the news newsletter is also a big uh and yeah, just follow along because I think over the next you know, at least year, the past year have been crazy.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: So next year should I can't imagine what we're about to see.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can only go up from here.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, John, thank you so much for joining us here at Operation Game Night.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I will put a link to all of your pages and socials and everything in the show notes for those that are watching and or listening.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you are joining us for the first time, thanks to John's appearance, go ahead and give us a like and a follow.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Share the show if you enjoyed this interview.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are kind of a grassroots movement, just like John.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the more we can uh get eyeballs on this show, the better for us, the better for John.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh DraftNoths is going to be the biggest game in the world.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So uh go on his Etsy account and uh, you know, buy a set, try it out, see if you like it, give him some love.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, John, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: We always say that we we like supporting smaller designers.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've given just a handful of shout-outs in the past to people that have taken big swings like this, to include simple things like print and play games.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I really I appreciate the small indie designer that's doing it grassroots movement, and that is what you're doing with DraftNots.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, John Lazaration, thank you for coming on the show.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing your design.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I hope to see more DraftNots in the future.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I hope to see, I hope to be in present more.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you guys so much.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was a blast.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one last shout out.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us uh all where you can find your stuff on the internet besides Etsy.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have like a Instagram handle or anything like that that people should look for?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lazar Studios at Lazar Studios on Instagram.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Also lasartstudios.com slash home, just to be safe because I I'm not a webmaster and I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I got the link right, but Lazart Studios.com slash home.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Instagram, my link in bio will give us you to everything else.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I would I would greatly appreciate it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we will share those links in the show notes.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us, John.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us, listeners andor watchers on YouTube.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Operation Game Night.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have been Travis.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: He has been John Lazaration from the Draft Knots production, and we are out.