Latest / The SEANC View / Gov. Stein weighs in on WakeMed/Atrium merger

Transcript

Gov. Stein weighs in on WakeMed/Atrium merger · The SEANC View

0:00
Hello everyone, welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
0:03
I'm John Owens along with Suzanne Beasley, Artis Watkins, and Samantha Klein.
0:09
We got kind of a sad opener for the show, but maybe we'll bring you back up,
0:14
towards the end. Let's get to it.
0:28
So, sad news to report. If you haven't heard already, which don't know how you
0:33
couldn't have, Dolly Parton died yesterday, age 80 years old,
0:38
and she's been a huge influence on our podcast, right?
0:41
Yeah. Art is broken. Most recently with the Imagination Library funding in the
0:47
state budget, we talked about that.
0:49
You said that was kind of an error.
0:52
Yeah, and the legislature came back and fixed that in the technical corrections
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bill. But Imagination Library had asked for money to expand.
1:00
Yeah. And it was not included in the budget, which would have meant that,
1:05
you know, children going forward cannot have enrolled in the program.
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So we can't jump on them. And this would be a very opportune time to do that. Yeah.
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But my daughter told me this morning that in lieu of flowers,
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folks are asking people to donate to the Imagination Library.
1:21
So you can do that at donate.imaginationlibrary.com Wonderful thing I mean,
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she has been a big part of this podcast We've talked about Dolly Parton Parton, Prince,
1:33
and Puffins As a songwriter yourself, Artis What are your thoughts?
1:39
You know, everybody's devastated that she's gone for so many reasons Just from
1:43
a songwriter perspective That is one of the best to ever live,
1:47
period What was the thing where she wrote Jolene and I Will Always Love You
1:52
in the Same Day? Yeah. Is that right?
1:54
Yeah, well, she was in her feelings that day, so that tends to— Probably playing her fingernails.
1:59
And that was because she was leaving Porter Wagger's show or something?
2:05
And he didn't want her to leave. But yeah, actually, Suzanne,
2:08
her fingernails, which are so famous for how in the world could she play guitar
2:13
with those fingernails? But when she would write, she would cut them.
2:18
Ah. Interesting. And because she was playing, you know, if you're playing that
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much. Yeah, you can't have.
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But she actually, I think, I don't know.
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She was just amazing. I don't know where to start. And I feel like we didn't
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think she was ever going to die.
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No. I think everybody just always thought Dolly would be here.
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And from a songwriting perspective, I got to say that the similar fascination
2:40
this podcast has with Prince,
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they shared a lot of similarities being performers and in the music they wrote,
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which may sound strange because she wrote very Appalachian style music and Prince was all over the map.
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He was a musical genius. He was all over the map. However, the honesty of their,
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they themselves and of their music was what made it one of a kind.
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And it's so funny because they both were heavily costumed at all times.
3:10
And so it's strange that folks who protected themselves from the world to a degree with,
3:17
so much costuming, were about the most stripped-down, emotionally raw and honest
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folks you could come across in the way they dealt with other people,
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but also, and especially, in their music.
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Yeah. And another frequent mention on the podcast, Taylor Swift is also a songwriter,
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right? Very prolific. Oh, goodness, yes.
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Yes, she does. And, you know, she stepped up with the Imagination Library when,
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you know, the funding wasn't originally put in and she stepped up along with
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her now husband Travis Kelsey and I think it was two million dollars wasn't it Sammy?
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I think so yeah. Donated to that but yeah I woke up this morning thinking you
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know what step it up Taylor.
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Pretty crazy how many tributes have been online. I mean I guess it's to be expected
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but I think y'all sent you guys one from Eminem where he is.
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And there were just all kinds even like the royal family in the UK wrote something
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and President Trump Ordered the flags to be half-staff for seven days,
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and then the governor also did that, right?
4:22
Yeah. Yes. Well, I mean— A national treasure has— And especially global icon.
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In the Appalachian region.
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I mean, she was kind of the biggest thing going in the Appalachian region.
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So, it leaves a void, especially in Tennessee. I saw a thing where when the
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fires happened in Gatlinburg, she paid, I think it's $1,000 for six straight
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months to 900 families in the area.
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Per month, yeah. Yeah, and after that ended, she also gave them all a $5,000
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check, like on top of that.
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Yeah, remember she didn't believe in billionaires. She didn't believe in being a billionaire, so.
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Just a good heart. Just a good heart. So definitely a void left in pop culture
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and the, I guess you said the world, right? Yeah.
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So do you think there'll be like a big funeral? The family said no.
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Very small family of the funeral with just the family. Just them.
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There's going to be tributes everywhere. There was already one in Asheville last night.
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Well, very sad. And we'll probably base our question of the week this week on
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that. So stay tuned for that.
5:33
For news this week, I did see a story where Governor Stein kind of dipped his
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toe into the WakeMed atrium deal.
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Sort of. Sort of. He said it deserves close scrutiny. And I don't know what
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that means. What does that mean, Artis? We don't.
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I mean, that's what we've been asking for is scrutiny. But scrutiny would require
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public sharing of this contract, which is not happening.
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And I'm glad the governor asked for more information from them, but I'm not sure.
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I mean, the clock's ticking on this.
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You've already got, as we've talked about, billboards.
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Signs in the mall saying Stronger Together, Atrium and Wake Med,
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and apparently lots of commercials. I've not seen one of the commercials yet.
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Yeah, I did see a commercial. I wasn't paying attention to it until the very
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end when I saw Wake Med Atrium. I was like, oh, so I don't really know exactly
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what it said, but I'm sure it was the same theme.
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The governor and the legislature, they really don't have any role in this though,
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right? They don't have any.
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Would they have anything they could do? Potentially.
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I mean, Wake County commissioners bear direct responsibility because,
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as I heard a former commissioner say just last night,
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who was involved in 1997 when this switched over from being purely a county
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hospital to this different entity that would still have control, basically,
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by county-appointed board in terms of majority.
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The county has a responsibility. That land is incredibly valuable,
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and that land and the buildings were gifted to WakeMed to start this thing, and so—.
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They owe a responsibility as county commissioners to the people of Wake County.
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And frankly, you know, I don't know if any of these county commissioners hold
7:25
higher ambition politically, but if they do, they need to think about the people of the whole state.
7:30
Because as we have said, not we have said, but the state health plan has said
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directly, it's about $130 more out of pocket for everybody in North Carolina,
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no matter where you live, if this deal goes through, Just because it went through.
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And if it's that way for the health plan, it's going to be that way for other.
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Health plans as well, private health plans that people have.
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Everything's going to go up according to the experts. So this is something that
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oftentimes county commissioners have higher aspirations. And if they do,
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they need to think about the impacts, not just in their county that they're
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responsible for, but what they're doing to the state.
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And a spokesperson for WakeMed said the system is currently working to address
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the governor's questions about this important combination and its impact on
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the long-term health of WakeMed and our community.
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So it looks like it was a letter from Stein's office. And in the letter,
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this line stuck out to me, North Carolinians rely on high-quality,
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affordable health care.
8:30
We don't rely on it. We don't have. We wish. Yeah. We have the opposite.
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We have the nation's most expensive health care, which, again,
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means we have the world's most expensive, most expensive nation in the world for health care.
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And we're the most expensive state in that most expensive nation.
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So we have the world's most expensive health care.
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With the worst health outcomes. Not the worst, but not the best.
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Like, we're somewhere, like, middle of the pack or maybe a little lower.
8:57
Yeah. Well, it's near the bottom, actually.
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But we're paying the most for that privilege.
9:02
Well, I mean, I don't think any governor's going to say, wow,
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we stink on how much health care costs here.
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But it is what all politicians need to say, confront, and address.
9:15
Because, again, just like nationally, these affordability issues are not going
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away. And they exist right here.
9:21
They are. So you said, Artis, that you had spoken to someone who said they will
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be, their vote will be held in September, correct?
9:29
September 8th, the county commissioners are having, you know,
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one of their board meetings, and that's supposedly when they probably,
9:39
maybe, will vote on this.
9:41
You know, the county commissioners have just not been super direct about any
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of this, but that's my understanding. September 8th is when we can expect them to vote. Okay.
9:49
I actually found an article. I saw it yesterday, but it was talking about a
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previous Atrium merger that happened in 2020 that was a merger between Atrium
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and Wake Forest Baptist.
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And I guess they had brought the former president in June to one of those meetings
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to make a case as to why this is good for the community.
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And while he said that their arrival brought investment, financial stability,
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and improved quality and access,
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to Wake Forest Baptist while allowing the hospital to retain its identity,
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there was a lot more employees who...
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Kind of criticized the merger.
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And it was more hospital leaders, board members, they publicly praised it.
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But people like some of the nurses there
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said that this brought tighter staffing, reduced incentive pay,
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and pressure to cut costs and changes that hurt morale and raised patient safety concerns.
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Which sounds identical to the concerns of the staff at Mission in Asheville,
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which was taken over by HCA, one of the nation's biggest conglomerates of health care,
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that this is what happens. No shock there.
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Ann Kemsky did write a piece on LinkedIn yesterday, and Ann Kemsky,
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by the way, being a national health care expert that people look to to help
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them assess whether things are good health care policy.
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She said, and I quote, after Atrium Health merged with Atrium Health Wake Forest
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Baptist, prices rose by 28 percent.
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From 2020 to 2024, according to economists from Brown University School of Public Health.
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It's bad enough that prices rose 20 percent overall at North Carolina hospitals
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over the same four-year period,
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but nor but winston-salem faced hikes 40 percent higher than that,
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no wonder the state health plan balks at putting atrium health wake forest baptist
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on its preferred provider tier,
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atrium health wants north carolina taxpayers and public servants to pay their
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high prices did state workers get a 28 raise over the 2020 to 2024 period huh.
12:04
Yeah, we could answer that. Absolutely not. Therein lies the problem.
12:08
Yeah, Nathan Foster, who was on the podcast a couple weeks ago talking about
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this issue from the NC Justice Center,
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he sent us an infographic right after that interview about CEO pay for the Wake
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Forest Baptist CEO, who was making $2.5 million in.
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2019 and now is making $7.6 million.
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So that's an increase of 300%, 200%. But the physicians and nurses are,
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reporting being disgruntled because, as is usually the case,
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we do not hear that this kind of big money trickles down to the people providing us care.
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It's the C-suite, you know, big dogs that are administrative.
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And by the way, the administrative layers in hospitals in the last few decades,
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have gotten so much deeper than anything we ever experienced with hospitals.
13:08
Another thing that I've seen recently with WakeMed is that WakeMed has been
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talking about a $919 million,
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expansion, even with the Atrium deal facing Uncertain Future,
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saying that when they filed their applications with NCDHHS, they included that
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their plans are not dependent on the funding tied to Atrium.
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So it kind of makes you question how strapped really are they for money.
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Yeah, to back up, one of the biggest arguments. WakeMed has been making is we'll
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go under if we don't get together with Atrium because we don't have enough money to make it.
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They have a billion dollars in reserve. They said, well, you don't understand.
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It takes at least that to keep, you know, with the technology we have to buy
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and things like that just to keep up.
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Then it comes out, like Sammy just said, that they're talking about building
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or acquiring two new hospitals, one in Rollsville and one in Wendell,
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and then expanding their Raleigh and Cary campuses.
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Yeah, I see that. So, will they be using the money from Atrium to do this?
14:15
Like, is this a carrot for them to say, we need this money so we can do this expansion?
14:21
Well, like I said, on their statement, whenever they filed with NCDHHS,
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they said, this is not dependent on our funding tied to atrium.
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So, yeah. So they put themselves out there on record saying, no, we're good.
14:34
Yeah. So there you have it. Yeah. You're either broke or you're so not broke,
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you're willing to take over other hospitals.
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All of this just. So expected. I hate to say it. All of this just leads me to
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the conclusion that we all picked the wrong field to go into.
14:53
Because there's so much money in health care, right? Well, not necessarily.
14:57
Not if you're a nurse or physician. Well, that's true. Less and less. But, yeah.
15:01
Obviously, we would be in the season. Health care, that corporate. Yeah.
15:06
No. But, yeah, so we'll be watching that, obviously. And September 8th, the vote will happen.
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Do you think the switch will be immediate? Or I guess they'll tell you.
15:17
I have literally no idea. No one has any idea what has been proposed.
15:23
We can't talk on that, but if anybody has the availability, because that,
15:27
instead of a 2 p.m. meeting like last time, that's a 5 p.m. meeting.
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So if anybody has the ability to go down to watch the Wake County commissioners
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talk about it if they're going to talk about it, or just vote with no discussion
15:40
if that's what they end up doing, you should do so. I have an idea.
15:45
September 8th, we will be in Greensboro for the convention. We should have a watch party.
15:51
Oh, goodness. So let's talk about the convention for a second.
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The scenic convention is almost here, around two weeks away.
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We're recording on August 26th, which is a Wednesday.
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The convention will start on September 10th in Greensboro, North Carolina,
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at the Curry Convention Center. Are you guys excited?
16:12
Don't all jump at one. No, it is fun. It's fun to see everyone again and,
16:18
you know, see our association get down to business and work hard those three days.
16:25
And I do think it's different because we get to see lots of people that we don't
16:29
see, you know. Yeah. People outside of just our board.
16:33
We don't generally get to see them until we go to conventions.
16:35
So, yeah, it's a reminder of the rest of the, you know, membership that we do
16:41
represent, you know, those folks that aren't necessarily in the bubble.
16:45
Yeah, it's a reminder that a lot of people care about the organization outside
16:49
of the ones that we not that we don't like the ones we see a lot, but but it's also,
16:55
you know, exciting to see other people get excited about what we're doing.
16:59
Lots of cool things that will be happening.
17:01
It is a lot of work, though. I mean, I think that our delegates spend a lot
17:05
of time watching people speak and making decisions. And it's not just all fun and games, you know.
17:13
Yeah, I end up battered and bruised by the end of the day. Yeah,
17:16
taking the pictures. Yeah.
17:18
Scenic's always been work hard, play hard.
17:21
Convention is always like that.
17:24
Definitely the amount of business that is crammed into each day,
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you know, has to be a lot. It's a big organization with lots to cover,
17:33
but at night we dance with a band.
17:38
You do. Everybody dances, John. You're just the buddy-duddy that doesn't dance.
17:44
I'm usually in my room watching football or something.
17:47
There's always some sort of football game going on while we're there.
17:49
Yeah, that starts on Wednesday this year. The NFL is playing on Wednesday instead
17:52
of Thursday. See, that was like my tradition at convention.
17:56
Thursday night I would watch the football game, you know, to settle down.
18:00
After a taxing day, yeah.
18:04
But now it's starting on Wednesday, so I'll have to cut the president's reception
18:07
a little early to go watch it.
18:10
But we're excited to see everyone in Greensboro. We're doing lots of preparation
18:14
right now. We're almost there, I think. Packing day is on Friday.
18:17
Packing day is pretty cool here at Scenic because the whole staff gathers in our conference room.
18:23
And we pack folders and pack bags. And it's about a three-hour operation.
18:30
It's like an assembly line. Everything that goes. It's a well-oiled machine.
18:35
It is. And it's some camaraderie. Yeah, we play music. That's music. Yeah.
18:39
But it's also a hard work. And it's not a competition, but, you know,
18:42
it's like assembly lines at each table. But it gets a little competition.
18:46
And it always gets into being a competition of which, you know.
18:49
It is funny how, like, yeah, you get a little team spirit with your line.
18:53
You know, like, we're so much better than that line. How slow they're going.
18:58
You know, but to anybody that hosts a convention, we feel your pain. We honor you.
19:04
We know the behind the scenes. Whenever I go to somebody else's event,
19:09
I'm sitting there watching them thinking, I know y'all did so much.
19:12
I know. I feel that same way whenever I go to something. I'm like,
19:16
a newfound respect for people who are standing there. And you want it to all
19:20
go absolutely flawlessly.
19:23
That's not likely, but you do your best.
19:25
I mean, I've been doing this for like, what, 15 years. Yeah.
19:29
Every year has a different challenge. You know, every year is something you can't prepare for.
19:34
But here's the thing. The delegates don't realize. Yeah, and that's the key,
19:37
right? Yeah, we just keep it going.
19:40
Yeah, and if they do realize, then you really mess something up.
19:44
This is not a full election year like all of our officers and everything,
19:48
but those are a hoot because I got to tell you, from the days of the paper ballots to electronic to,
19:57
you know, some years where, it was kind of a hybrid.
20:01
I now understand how difficult it must be to have any kind of election because
20:08
somebody's always going to have an issue with the way the election went.
20:13
And it is a virtual impossibility unless you read each person's name and their vote.
20:19
Let them come to the front and tell you if that's their vote or not.
20:21
There's no other way that people would feel secure, and And even then they might not. Yeah.
20:26
It stresses me out for the same reason sports stress me out.
20:29
Because when I see someone's sad face because they lost, just something happened,
20:34
I'm like, oh, I don't like that. Don't look at me. But it's cool,
20:37
though, that people do run against each other because it shows,
20:41
I mean, I'd be much more worried if nobody cared. Yeah.
20:44
Nobody wanted the positions. Yeah.
20:47
Yeah. Yeah, I think this year we have one race because, well,
20:50
this year we do, we still do our committee nominations and things,
20:54
even though we don't. And we do have...
20:56
The statewide impact chairs election. So that'll be. That's the biggie.
21:00
Yeah. That's the only statewide race, I think. Yeah.
21:04
And then we do have breakout trainings this year.
21:07
And I am teaching one. What are you teaching? I'm teaching one on AI. Oh, man.
21:13
Of course. The state health plan's coming. Yeah. The retirement.
21:18
Yeah. The state health plan. That's right. Yeah. So everybody be looking for information from that.
21:24
And I don't know what the registration counts. is this year but you know this is this is a big deal yeah,
21:30
i think it was around 640 i got about 700 people yeah so,
21:34
and thomas friedman from the health plan's coming yes okay well they'll have
21:38
lots of questions there's always lots of activity with that and we have,
21:41
they all have they have a breakout too so okay there'll be lots of opportunity
21:45
for folks that will be way more popular and treasurer briner's come a lot of
21:50
dignitaries council estate and,
21:52
we've got quite a list of The IPs.
21:55
Yeah. Nice. I got my running shoes ready.
21:57
Yeah, you guys haven't seen Sammy in action at convention, but we've actually
22:03
witnessed this girl with her knee pads on come sliding up front in a shot like
22:07
she's sliding into second base, you know?
22:11
And President Wendell Powell promises that things will be a little different
22:14
this year. And that's really scary when you're creating the script.
22:19
But he's got some things planned. Change is good, John. So I'm excited about that.
22:23
This is a good time to put a plug in. If you're listening to this and you're
22:27
not a delegate, I mean, you can come to the convention. You can,
22:30
well, not this, well. You can't just randomly come.
22:33
You can run for a delegate's position from your district. So get involved.
22:37
And then you can come to the awesome convention once a year.
22:41
And it's a lot of fun. So I encourage everyone to get involved.
22:44
And we also have the scholarships, right? We do. We have a convention scholarship
22:49
where we choose one member from each region who either hasn't been to the convention
22:55
or really wants to get involved and learn more about Scenic.
22:59
And we help them get out there and they get to sit with their district and learn
23:04
all about what we do at our convention. Cool beans.
23:08
So we'll have more on that as it approaches. We got two more weeks before,
23:12
and then we got to figure out how we're going to do a podcast at convention.
23:16
Last year, we pulled it off.
23:17
We got to figure out how we're going to do it this year. So stay tuned for that.
23:21
The other news items I had this week, Governor Stein celebrated state employees
23:26
with more than 45 years of service with the Richard Caswell Service Awards yesterday.
23:32
Day. We got nine people who have at least 45 years of service. Amazing.
23:37
Do you think you'll be working at Scenic at year 45?
23:42
Maybe, maybe. Heck, I hope I'm still alive.
23:46
They are Jane Beeman from Harnett County District Attorney's Office,
23:50
who has 49 years of service. Wow. And then there's eight others with 45.
23:56
So congratulations to those folks. Oh, read them all. Oh, read them all.
24:00
Yeah, go ahead. Collectively, they have more than 400 years of state service. Wow.
24:05
Jane Beeman from Harnett County DA's Office, 49 years. Clendora Hagans from DHHS, 45.
24:13
Janice Johnson from Justice, 45. The rest of them are 45. So Gail Newman from DAC.
24:20
Mae Rogers from Department of Transportation. Morris Reed from DAC.
24:26
Judy Stem from DHHS.
24:29
Rebecca Smith from Justice. And Donna Wilson from the Department of Information in technology.
24:37
Wow, 45 years at the IT department. That's... Congratulations.
24:40
They've been through a lot. Yeah. Yeah, they've seen a lot of change.
24:43
They've seen a lot of change, right? Thank y'all so much for that much of your
24:47
life serving us as taxpayers. Thank you so much. Yeah, I just started thinking
24:51
of how old I'll be in 45 years.
24:54
Oh, yeah. Oh, I'll be 90. I don't know about that. I'd be 70. Zip it, Sammy.
25:01
Susanna and I are like, oh, yeah.
25:04
One other story, and I have gripes about this story because I think it's,
25:09
maybe I'm going out on a limb, maybe I shouldn't say this, but as a former reporter,
25:13
this seems like a story that you would pull out of nowhere
25:16
on a Saturday when you have nothing else to write about because I've done it before.
25:20
The NC highest paid state government employee story that comes out every year.
25:26
So this year, it looks like someone just looked through the directory and said,
25:29
hey, this person makes this much money. Yeah.
25:31
But the highest-paid state employee in North Carolina is Kevin Sigrist,
25:36
the chief investment officer at the NC Investments Authority,
25:41
according to the Newsom server, and several other outlets who picked this story up.
25:45
But who makes a fraction of what a college coach does.
25:51
Yeah, I think the way they get around that is they're paid through endowments
25:55
and sponsorships. And I don't know what the difference is, why they're not listed, you know.
26:02
How much of his money comes from investments that he does?
26:05
Oh, I don't think that's right. It makes billions.
26:08
Yeah. So that's one thing. Right. So he makes there's no context with this story.
26:13
Like it doesn't show that he's probably making five times less than a comparable
26:18
person in the private sector for that position. You know, at least five.
26:23
And he's, well, obviously they've made, what, $17 billion this year?
26:28
Now, wait a minute. I'm looking this up while you're talking.
26:30
Let's take, I don't know, Bill Pelichick, for example.
26:33
Yeah. $10 million salary, two main parts. $1 million is paid directly from the university. Oh.
26:40
And then $9 million is funded through athletic department revenue,
26:44
which technically would have been for the university for some other purpose
26:47
if that wasn't used for this, media duties, promotional engagements,
26:51
and donor-supported funds.
26:53
It looks like that would be addressed in this because obviously everyone's first
26:57
question is, well, what about the coaches?
27:00
Yeah, I don't see anything about that in this story.
27:02
So there you go. At one time, I think it was Mark Godfrey, the basketball coach
27:07
at State. And now, I guess it's probably Belichick.
27:11
And then there's potential bonuses of $3.5 million. For what? Winning a football?
27:18
So far, that's not been a threat. Well, he hasn't.
27:23
I'm pulling that off in a grand fashion for sure. So UNC,
27:27
Chapel Hill provided $21.4 million to support athletics last year between direct
27:32
payments, services, debt payments, and rental fees, according to its annual
27:36
financial report to the NCAA.
27:39
Figure doesn't include student fees that go to athletics, which settled more
27:42
than $8 million last year.
27:44
And Kevin Segrist made $17 billion for the state fee, right?
27:50
That's a deal. So, yeah, I think. Truly, truly. So I kind of take issue with
27:54
that article as well. Yeah.
27:57
It's missing the, uh. But also, I mean, I know it's easy. Even our members would
28:03
see this and be like, wow, he's making way too much money. And,
28:05
you know, whatever. Well, it is a ton of money compared to your average state employee. Yeah.
28:11
But we have to pay. My goodness. Well, you know, the work he does.
28:16
Most dangerous thing you could do is pay next to nothing and get somebody that's
28:19
only in it for the connections that'll pay off later.
28:22
You know, you want somebody who's. So nine of the 10 employees in the top 10
28:27
highest paid lists are from the NC Investment Authority.
28:31
Perfect. Let's make some money. I mean, but yeah, we got to pay for,
28:34
you get what you pay for, right?
28:35
And also, we don't begrudge anyone for the money they make.
28:41
We just wish everyone made more, period, right? So that's the annual these people
28:47
make this much money story.
28:49
Seems like it comes out too often.
28:51
I think that's all I have for news articles that I've seen. Have you seen anyone
28:55
else have anything, anything going on in the legislature? Nope.
28:59
All quiet. Oh, that's good. For the moment.
29:03
So let's wrap up with, do you have a Gen Z moment this week?
29:06
I think the main thing that Gen Zs are also talking about is Dolly Parton.
29:10
Dolly Dye. Which is crazy. Well, you know, I told, I told you artists that one
29:15
of my friends and I were having the conversation last night that,
29:18
that our generation, artists in my generation, got all the best of Dolly.
29:23
We got from when she was a young woman, you know, all the way till yesterday when she passed away.
29:28
John, your generation, you got a good portion of that.
29:32
I was thinking about this exact thing too. I think my, most of my early knowledge
29:38
of Dolly and just impression in general was her duets with Kenny Rogers. Yeah.
29:43
So we got all this stuff before that with Porter Wagner. Yeah.
29:47
You know, back in those days. But, you know, I was thinking about it.
29:50
So even, you know, Sammy's generation, you guys know her music.
29:55
And even like my little grandbabies, they get the books. They're getting a piece
29:58
of Dolly, too. So, you know. A lot of my generation, I will say,
30:02
was introduced to Dolly through Hannah Montana, Miley Cyrus. Yeah.
30:07
Personally, I was introduced a little earlier.
30:10
I lived in Tennessee when I was little. Yeah. And so that was kind of a staple.
30:15
Yeah. And also, my parents, I grew up listening to that music just around the house.
30:21
So, question of the week. John's working.
30:30
Obviously. What is your Dolly Parton song? What is your favorite song, your go-to?
30:36
And maybe we add to that, how were you introduced to Dolly, I guess?
30:42
Artists, we're going to start with you since you're to the left.
30:45
I don't remember how I was introduced.
30:47
Dolly seems to have always been there. My favorite Dolly Parton song is Jolene.
30:52
I think the guitar parts and the percussion together create this unbelievable
30:58
energy and this kind of rockabilly feel that it just builds and builds.
31:04
And her vocals, I mean, Dolly wasn't Adele or Whitney Houston or somebody like
31:10
that. She wasn't trying to be.
31:13
Her vocals, though, were, again, so honest, but so emotional.
31:18
Like, she could convey so many emotions so easily.
31:22
And she didn't have to soar to the highest notes, you know, that you could get
31:26
to, to just be amazing. And Jolene, as she builds in the chorus with,
31:32
you know, saying Jolene's name over and over and over again,
31:36
The desperation of the protagonist is just so clear. So the lyricism is simple,
31:44
but the way she delivers it is so powerful.
31:48
And the instrumentation is really just so cool.
31:52
She was, you know, it's using that, Dolly used that thumb flick pick method
31:58
that Mother Maybel Carter made famous. And that makes some pretty cool guitar riffs.
32:04
But I don't know. She put all of that together in a way that was so unique,
32:10
and I think that was maybe her most covered song ever, because everybody can
32:15
put their own cool spin on it, but everybody hears.
32:19
That rhythm, and they just want to sing that.
32:23
I think there's a lot of emotion that you can convey as a singer.
32:26
I think everybody knows Jolene.
32:29
Yeah. And I have one gripe to pick with Jolene, though. Do you think Jolene
32:33
was really much hotter than Dolly?
32:35
Like, there's no way, right? Like, she was like, Dolly Parton.
32:39
You know, that's the thing. Dolly Parton, again, costumed herself so much and—,
32:44
And Dolly Parton was a quite beautiful woman. Yeah. It's like she could have
32:47
just rolled around just being her and been one of the most beautiful women around.
32:51
But, you know, she liked that persona. And she owned it, too, you know.
32:56
She did. There was a story that I heard in one of her videos about a woman that lived in town.
33:01
You know, Dolly grew up really, really poor. And there was a woman who lived
33:03
in town who wore lots of makeup, had the big hair. And, you know,
33:08
every time they'd go to town, Dolly would think to herself, I want to be like her.
33:12
And her mom would say, oh, she's a tramp. She's trashy. And,
33:15
you know, Dolly was like, yeah, I want to be that.
33:18
She had the best sense of humor. What's that old lyric from,
33:21
I can't remember the band, but she's a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton week. Trashy. Yeah.
33:28
I like my women just a little on the trashy side. But, yeah.
33:32
So Jolene for me, because I think, man, that's just, that's a one of a kind.
33:37
And to have written it the same day she wrote, I Will Always Love You.
33:41
I Will Always Love You is beautiful.
33:43
I loved Dolly's version I really loved Dolly's version Whitney's version Obviously takes it to,
33:49
Newer heights That are just Unbelievable But in a different way Yeah but they
33:52
give you Goosebumps right Either one gives you Goosebumps And so that's amazing
33:57
But just from a Songwriting perspective Jolene's cooler Yeah Yeah.
34:02
Well, just, and kind of in that same train of thought with the story behind
34:06
Jolene, why'd you come in here looking like that?
34:09
Oh, yeah. With your high heel boots and your painted on jeans.
34:12
That one, too. You know, it was kind of in that same, such a fun song,
34:15
but at the same time, Dolly's over there like, what the heck?
34:18
Yeah. You know, Chick, did you have to come in here looking like that?
34:21
You know, you're causing problems for the rest of us.
34:25
And Joshua, you know, which I've obviously been listening to nothing but Dolly
34:29
music for the last 24 hours. But I had forgotten about this song, Joshua, me and Joshua.
34:33
Oh, oh. Yellow Roses. Yep.
34:36
So many. Oh, so many. How do you pick one? Yeah.
34:40
What about you, Samantha? Mine was always Coat of Many Colors.
34:45
Oh, yeah. I thought that was such a sweet song. And I used to listen to it with my mom all the time.
34:51
And I was introduced to her kind of the same way. I just used to come home and
34:55
my mom from like elementary school, my mom would be cleaning and had music playing
34:59
in the background. And it would half the time be Dolly Parton.
35:02
But I never actually saw what she looked like until Hannah Montana.
35:06
So I didn't know what she looked like. I was just like, I know her music. I love it.
35:11
I never put names to faces really until I was watching Hannah Montana.
35:15
I was like, oh, that's her.
35:19
Which was about 2005, 2006, so I was five or six.
35:23
That's funny because I grew up in the 80s, right?
35:26
And it's almost like, or 80s and 90s, I guess, almost like her persona and her.
35:35
Style was even larger than her songs at that point. It was.
35:40
It kind of led, you know, you knew what she was and everything before you knew her songs.
35:46
I think I was just introduced at such a young age that I didn't really have
35:50
internet access at that time. I wasn't, my parents weren't giving me internet
35:54
access at five years old. So they were kind of, so it was finally like I just
35:57
saw on TV and I was like, that's her.
36:00
But Coat of Many Colors is such a beautiful song. Is also, I mean.
36:06
The key change in Code of Many Colors when she gets to the bullying part.
36:10
Yeah. I mean, she could do things that were amazing with her writing.
36:15
But it sounded so simple.
36:17
On its face, you wouldn't think, oh, what an incredible song.
36:20
And that's what makes an incredible song. Yeah. If you can tell the whole story
36:24
in two minutes or less, you've done something.
36:29
I'm not even sure if she wrote the song I'm going to say. But I think I'm going
36:33
to have to go with Islands in the Stream because of the Kenyan.
36:36
I'm a big Kenny Rogers fan.
36:37
That's a great song. There is a key change in that song, too. Oh, of course.
36:42
But Code of Many Colors would probably be one of them. Probably would have been
36:46
number one if Sammy had taken it.
36:48
But my mom used to listen to that all the time and sing it. Oh,
36:52
it's a classic. I remember that growing up. Well, John and I were having a conversation
36:55
before we started with the podcast, too. There's a song that she did in 2023, World on Fire.
37:00
And I think, like you and I were saying, she just kind of hit this point of,
37:04
you know, y'all are tripping.
37:06
Get your act together. Yes, she was always so positive. But by the time she
37:10
recorded World on Fire, I mean, those were shocking lyrics for Dolly. They were.
37:15
Stop the presses. Guess who wrote Islands in the Stream? Who?
37:19
Barry, Robin, and Maurice Gibb. No way. The Bee Gees. Why doesn't that surprise me, though?
37:25
Yeah, it's got that. Can you imagine them singing it? It's got that chill vibe
37:28
like they had. And it was intended for Marvin Gaye.
37:31
What? Oh, wow. And it was given to Kenny Rogers when Marvin Gaye died.
37:35
That's a trip. Or maybe not when he died. Marvin Gaye might have been a little too cool for that song.
37:41
He would have done a great job. He would. Well, he would have done a great job of anything.
37:45
But, you know, it's corny in a wonderful way. So I know you guys are going to
37:49
say, number one, but where does Dolly rank on the pantheon of, like, superstars?
37:57
I don't think you top her. Prince. Michael Jackson.
38:02
Musical superstars. Let's say that. She and Prince are, yeah.
38:06
I mean, gosh. Merle Haggard. You got to put him up.
38:10
I still can't believe there were people who didn't know who she was.
38:13
Prince was such a musical genius.
38:15
Exactly. I can't get past that. Because through the posts that I've seen all
38:19
over social media talking about her passing, there have been comments that are
38:22
saying, like, why is everyone acting like this woman is such a big deal?
38:25
I had no idea who she was until she passed. And I'm like, that's your problem. My children sit down.
38:31
Well, and I got to say this. I think maybe musically the biggest thing she did
38:34
was encourage younger musicians, which is massive. Yeah.
38:40
So she probably had a bigger impact than anybody simply because she was about
38:44
building other musicians up in a really cutthroat industry.
38:49
I will at least always be able to say that one of the first theme parks I ever
38:52
went to in my entire life was Dollywood.
38:55
There you go. Shameless plug for Scenic's Dollywood tickets. There you go.
39:00
And if you would like to honor Dolly.
39:03
I asked yesterday if I should post something like that. I think that would have
39:06
been kind of tacky. But still, go to Dollywood.
39:10
Yeah, still go to Dollywood. But, I mean, if you want to buy tickets, we're here for you.
39:14
So, well, let's listen. And remember to support Imagination Library. Yes.
39:18
So let's go listen to some Dolly Parton and enjoy the rest of your week.