Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / AUTISTIC BOY SEBASTIAN ROGERS SIGHTED: DAD SAYS "IT'S HIM," COPS SAY NO

Transcript

AUTISTIC BOY SEBASTIAN ROGERS SIGHTED: DAD SAYS "IT'S HIM," COPS SAY NO · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Breaking news tonight after a so called sighting of missing
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: autistic boy Sebastian Rogers at a Blue Ridge Mountain's rest stop.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Sebastian's dad, Seth tells us it's him and with us
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Tonight live Dad Seth Rogers to address that polygraph tonight,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: where is missing autistic boy Sebastian Rogers? Good evening, I'm
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: you for being with us.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: A woman rushing to meet family at the visitors Center
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina takes a
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: photo of the area and the people hanging around. When
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: she takes a closer look at the photo, later, she
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: realizes that a boy in the photo bears a striking
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: resemblance to Sebastian Rodgers and contacts authorities. Investigators have been
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: trying to locate the person in the photo. The Sheriff's
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: office confirms that they have reached out in Our Carolina
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: authorities about the picture, but so far, nothing credible has
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: resulted from their inquiries.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Tonight, a mysterious update in the search for a missing
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: autistic boy as a woman shares a photo of a
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: little boy bearing an uncanny resemblance to missing autistic boy
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Sebastian Rogers joining us an all star panel to make
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: sense of what we are hearing. But first I want
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: to go straight out to Sebastian's father joining us, Seth Rogers.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: You can find him at hashtag Sebastian Strong.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Seth. Thank you for being with us, Seth.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I was stunned when I saw the side by side
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of Sebastian and the boys spotted at the guest center.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: What do you make of it?
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: When I saw the picture, all I turned around and
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: loaded up to Vita Glewin off the North Carolina.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Is with Lauren colin Is joining us, investigative journalist and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: host of the Outlier podcast. Lauren, thank you for being
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: with us. What can you tell me about the siding?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Because the authorities are not saying it's not him. They
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: are saying, quote, nothing credible is pointing to the siding
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of Sebastian. In other words, they haven't been able to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: confirm it yet.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Remember this is like a rest stop, a tourist center.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: People are visiting there that could live in any of
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the surrounding states.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, Nancy and I think what's important to note here
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: is that North Carolina authorities have not identified the boy
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: in the photo, so as of right now, it's still
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: considered a potential lead.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Guys joining us is Seth Rogers, Sebastian's dad, and Lauren Conlin,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: host of Outlier podcast. Seth tell me what went through
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: your mind when you first saw this photo? And when
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: you compare them side by side, it's really uncanny.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: You know, my son's alive. That he I mean, he
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: looks good in the picture. I mean he's got clothes on,
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: he's got shoes on.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Do you recognize the clothes?
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: No, I don't.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: How about the shoes?
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Don't recognize those either? They look brand new?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yes they do. In fact, the clothes look me as well.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: How far away in your estimation, Seth, is this restop
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: tourist attraction area from Sebastian's home.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: It's about six hours give or tape with traffic.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: How did you become aware of the siding, the alleged siding.
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: People started calling me and asking me about the picture,
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: and then people turn around and started sending me the picture.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And again, what went through your mind when you first
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: saw it.
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: I gotta go, I've got to go up there I
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: got to see. I meant the pigs there. I wanted
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: to go see the footage because I figured there'd be
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: some type of surveillance.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: And did you go?
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I did? I drove up to North Carolina.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: You took the sixth hour plus ride to North Carolina
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to investigate this photo?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And what if anything did you learn when you got there?
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: That I wasn't allowed to see the video footage?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: I was told it's an active investigation, so I'm not
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: allowed to see it.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Who told you that, Seth?
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: People at the park.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: It's my understanding.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: The woman who took the picture was also convinced that
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: this looked exactly like Sebastian and handed it over to
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: the TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, and then later
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: it was posted online.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Is that your understanding, Seth?
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, Seth.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: When you saw this picture, how did it make you feel?
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: Gave me hope? Rekindled what hope I.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Was losing, Seth.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the way the boy is standing in
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: this photo.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I know you've looked at it a million times.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: He's got his right arm somewhat over his stomach, and
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering, does this pose look familiar to you.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: By the I mean, by the looks of it. He's
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: stepping down off the rocks and stuff. He's looking at
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: where he's going. Yeah, but he's.
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: Also been missing for two months, so his demeanor and
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: everything could possibly have shifted.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: In what way? Why do you say that I haven't.
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: Heard from my son and two and a half months.
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: You know, if he's not he doesn't have a phone
• 5:43
  Speaker 6: with him. You know he hasn't heard from me. If
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: somebody convinced him to go away and won't give him
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: a phone.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you, Seth. Is it correct that.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Your PI that you had to hire, which is a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: whole other can of worms, spoke to the person that
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: took the photo.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: No, my other PI, Chloe, she's the one that spoke
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: with him.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I couldn't hear you what.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: The other PI on the case. She's the one that
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: spoke with them.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: So a PI on the case did speak with the photographer, Chris?
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: And what did the PI learn.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: When she took the picture.
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: And why she didn't call ninety one one immediately and
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: what she did when she reviewed the picture, and the
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: fact that she asked why she put it on social media,
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: and it was because she stated that it was because
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: TBI didn't get back with her after she had submitted it.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: What else did you learn?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Why did she decide to take the picture, and what
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: else could she tell you through the PI about.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Who this boy it was?
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: With?
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Nothing?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: What was he doing? Was he crying? Did he look hungry?
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Was he with a man or a woman?
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: The individual that took the picture was actually her husband
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: that took the picture and see what was faster with
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: this his phone that she was and they were driving
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: by and he took the picture. And then when they
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: were able to look at it and they submitted it
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: to TBI, they didn't hear back from TBI that they
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: had received the picture or anything else, so they put
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: it out on social media.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Guys the photo were talking about to Lauren Colin joining us.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Lauren, exactly where is this rest stop or tourist attraction?
• 7:43
  Speaker 7: So it's in North Carolina. It is a blue the
• 7:47
  Speaker 7: Blue Ridge Mountains Visitor Center.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: And like Seth said, Sebastian did not appear to be
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: in this photo. And I think all of us are
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: are very hopeful, and I I think it's amazing that
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: Seth went to North Carolina and drove five hours from Tennessee.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Back to Seth. Did the man or the woman see
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: who the boy was with.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: No, they said they didn't even know if they were
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: with the group or not. They didn't know if the
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: lady was.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: With a what lady, the lady in the pink shirt? Yeah,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: did he emerge from a car?
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: They just saw him as they drove through the under
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: where they're at right now was like a the parking
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: lot is behind there. Right in front of there is
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: the entrance into the gift shop. Yeah, so him being there,
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: there was no there's no way to see.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: If he was getting in or out of a car
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: right there.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: So he was on his way into the gift shop.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Seth, that's the direction that he's heading.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Well, that seems to me that there should be gift
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: shop surveillance video or at least other witnesses. So is
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: that the surveillance video you were trying to get, Seth? Yes,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: now we know that a statement has been issued that quote,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: nothing credible is pointing to any sign of Sebastian.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: That's pretty vague.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Nothing credible is pointing to any sign of Sebastian. That's
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: incredibly vague. It doesn't say this picture is a hoax,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: this picture is a fake, this is not Sebastian. They're
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: not saying any of that. What do you make of
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: that response, Seth.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: That they don't know what to say?
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Joining me guys.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Also is IRV Brandt, renowned investigator, former US Marshall Service
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: International Investigation is Branch and author a flying solo Top
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: of the World on Amazon or thank you so much
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: for being with us.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Now, this is a conundrum.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: If this boy is Sebastian the way his father thinks
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: that it is, I mean.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Look at it, for Pete's sake.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Look at the side by side, the.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Chin, the jawline, the nose, the hair. It's oh, it's uncanny.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: It's at a tourist gift shop in the middle of
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Mountains. It's Aniela in a haystack or Brant.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: What do we do, Nancy?
• 10:20
  Speaker 8: The video the picture the way I see it, And
• 10:26
  Speaker 8: if the father says that's his son, that's good enough
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: for me, of course. But the investigation is going to
• 10:34
  Speaker 8: center around trying to get anyone that was there at
• 10:38
  Speaker 8: that time, maybe looking at video of the parking lot,
• 10:44
  Speaker 8: running down tag numbers, trying to find other witnesses, other
• 10:49
  Speaker 8: people that may have been shooting video and inadvertently captured
• 10:54
  Speaker 8: his image on their video. I can imagine that the
• 10:58
  Speaker 8: police are, you know, the investigators in this case for
• 11:02
  Speaker 8: multiple agencies, are just searching all different kinds of avenues
• 11:08
  Speaker 8: looking for clues. And when they make a comment like
• 11:12
  Speaker 8: no credible evidence so far, it's basically like saying no
• 11:17
  Speaker 8: comment on the investigation. They don't want to say either way.
• 11:22
  Speaker 8: But I would imagine that this is a crucial piece
• 11:28
  Speaker 8: of information to their investigation.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Well to me, and of course I'm just a trial lawyer.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: The first thing I would do is pull that Survella's
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: video the way Seth Rogers described, and I would go
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: in and look for every single receipt at the time
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that picture was taken, and the photographer gives us the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: time and the date that it was taken, every single receipt.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Then I would find out if there's any Survelli's video
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: in the parking lot, to find out if he went
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to a car, which obviously he did. What car it's
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: got to be on surveillance's video. Agreed, disagree or rant?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're the former US Marshall going all the
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: way around the world finding people.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: What do you do next, Nancy, I agree.
• 12:14
  Speaker 8: I mean the car is the most critical thing. If
• 12:17
  Speaker 8: you can identify the car that he got out of,
• 12:21
  Speaker 8: even if you don't have a tag number, the making
• 12:24
  Speaker 8: the model of the car would be just crucial to
• 12:29
  Speaker 8: send out a bolo to the surrounding states. Then potentially
• 12:34
  Speaker 8: finding witnesses at that time, like you said, checking receipts
• 12:40
  Speaker 8: in the gift shop and interviewing people that were there
• 12:43
  Speaker 8: at the time. You know, something that they may have
• 12:48
  Speaker 8: seen an autistic boy may stick out in their memory,
• 12:54
  Speaker 8: you know, seeing him.
• 12:56
  Speaker 9: And they may have, you know, looked at that person,
• 13:00
  Speaker 9: at that boy, at the people that he was with,
• 13:04
  Speaker 9: and a skilled investigator asked the right questions to these
• 13:08
  Speaker 9: people that can lead to crucial, crucial leads.
• 13:12
  Speaker 8: In this case, I.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Still say it's a nail in a haystack, but a
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: needle can be found in a haystack. Seth Rogers with
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: us Sebastian's dad. Seth, when you look at these chief
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: photos side by side, I was looking at the nose,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the chin, the jawline, the demeanor, the hair, what looks similar.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: To you all the above? No, I mean the way
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: his hair that comes over.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you mean by that?
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Everything on there?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Just what do you mean.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: By that his hair? Because his hair goes in the
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: same direction. My son has a cow lick and a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: certain spot on his head, and no matter what happens,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: his hair tries to part in the middle. Since he
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was born, he was born with no hair. But you
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: could see kind of like a little part in the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: foot and it's been that way forever. And I'm looking
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: at the way this boy's hair is going over toward.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same as Sebastian's.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: It just it looks like my son.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Easy.
• 14:14
  Speaker 10: Jackie Howard here, the local sheriff, says, the boy in
• 14:17
  Speaker 10: the photo is not Sebastian.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Seth one more time, do you believe this photo captured
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of the Bluedish mountains is Sebastian? I do straight out
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to Tony Mathis, who is helping Seth Rogers in this
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: very very difficult time of need. Tony question, you've heard
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the response of l E. Law enforcement quote, nothing credible
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: is pointing to a sign, any sign of Sebastian.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 14:52
  Speaker 11: Well, I'll tell you what it means to me. It
• 14:54
  Speaker 11: means that it's a plausible deniability statement. It gives them
• 14:59
  Speaker 11: an out do indeed find it to be him. It's
• 15:03
  Speaker 11: just a very vague statement. You know, there's a lot
• 15:06
  Speaker 11: of ways to deliver that information that would get people
• 15:10
  Speaker 11: to believe that yes it's him or no it's not him.
• 15:12
  Speaker 11: And I don't think that that delivery did anything to
• 15:15
  Speaker 11: assure people one way or the other.
• 15:17
  Speaker 12: One Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Seth, did you say
• 15:31
  Speaker 12: you have or have not?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Would would not take a polygraph? I would wonderful if
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I set.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: One up for you. Will you take the polygraph?
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: M We all remember that moment when I.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Put Sebastian's father, Seth on the hot seat on national
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: TV and asked him would he be willing to take
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: a polygraph? He said yes, he did take a straight
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: back out to Seth Rogers.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Joining us is Sebastian's.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Father, and now joining us is a renowned polligrapher, Kendall Shule,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: former head of the entire FBI polygraph program in DC.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Former special agent with the FBI in DC. He is
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: at Kendall Investigations. Also joining US, Tony Mathis who is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: helping Seth Rogers as he walks this very very rocky path.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: First of all, let me just get this out of
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the way. This is a yes.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: No Kendall Shule.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Did Seth Rogers pass his polygraph?
• 16:46
  Speaker 13: Yes he did.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Seth Rogers, tell.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Me about going and taking the polygraph. We want to
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: hear every single word because I've got a stack of
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: a nasty online posts about you failing, about you not going,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah, a lot of trolls chiming in. Let's
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: get to the truth of that polygraph, Seth.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: What happened?
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: I showed up early for the polygraph. Mister Kendall contacted
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: me and told me that he'd be there well before
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: the time that we had stated. So I showed up
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: and I sat in the chair and let him attack
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: those things to me and took the polygraph.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had a polygraph before?
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: No, ma'am.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And what kind of questions did the politicper Kendall Shule
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: ask you?
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: If I had ever wanted to harm anybody, if I
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: ever wanted to hurt my son, if I had ever
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: hurt my son, if I had ever had anything to
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: do with his disappearance.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Question you said, they hooked you up what do you
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: mean by that?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Seth Rogers put.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Things on my hands, They wrapped chords around me.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: They had a blood crept pleasure cup on me to
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: measure my blood pressure and measure my heart raid, my
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: breathing raid, things like that.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: How long did it take?
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: It took a minute.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: It took sixty seconds. Could you be precise or more precise?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: How long do you think it took?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: We were there for three hours, four hours.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: That's about right.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: It's not easy, okay, sent tight Seth, and again thank
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: you for being with us out to Kendall Shule, as
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I told you, former head of the entire FBI polygraph
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: program in DC, Kendall, thank you. When we put out
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the word that Seth Rogers would take a polygraph, we
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: contacted you because of your reputation.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: You quickly agreed, and I thank you for that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Again, this was not free. He was paid to do
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the polygraph. He owes nothing to anybody, and therefore was
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: not swayed one way or the other. He had never
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: met Seth Rogers before in his life. Mister Schule, I've
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: looked very carefully at your polygraph report right here.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Number one.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: You start off by saying it was conducted using a
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: comparison question format that meets US government standards. What is
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: a comparison question format?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 19:33
  Speaker 13: It's a format that's well accepted by the polygraph community,
• 19:38
  Speaker 13: particularly the American Polygraph Association. There are certain formats that
• 19:44
  Speaker 13: we can use that are more acceptable, that we know
• 19:46
  Speaker 13: are more reliable, and this was one of those. Certainly
• 19:51
  Speaker 13: a test format that I would want to use to
• 19:54
  Speaker 13: make sure we're doing everything right to get the correct results.
• 19:57
  Speaker 13: So this is, again a a format of polygraph that
• 20:02
  Speaker 13: is widely accepted as a standard in the FBI world,
• 20:06
  Speaker 13: in the polygraph world in general.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Now you also state that you used state of the
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: art Lafayette LX six, the computerized polygraph system. And I'm wondering,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: is that, for instance, when you get on an elevator
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and you see the last time it was inspected and
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you see the type of elevator it is, or you
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: take a mammogram and you see the last time it
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: was inspected and the type of equipment machine that's being used.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: So you say, the polygraph charts will evaluate. Excuse me,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the data was collected using state of the art Lafayette
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: LX six computerized polygraph system. What is that? And please
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: dummy down for me. I'm just a trial lawyer.
• 20:54
  Speaker 13: There are several companies that make polygraph equipment. The one
• 20:58
  Speaker 13: that the FP I use is the one that I've
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: always used, The one that I believe is the best
• 21:05
  Speaker 13: is a Lafiette system. There are different versions of that
• 21:10
  Speaker 13: polygraph equartment. Obviously is always has additions and corrections and
• 21:18
  Speaker 13: made to it. And I started out with an LEX
• 21:22
  Speaker 13: four I believe it was, went to A five, and
• 21:25
  Speaker 13: then the latest state of the art equipment that lafiat
• 21:28
  Speaker 13: currently makes is the LX six.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: And of course we keep up with.
• 21:32
  Speaker 13: The proper software that's required as well. But that is
• 21:36
  Speaker 13: the state of art. That's the best polygraph instrument I
• 21:40
  Speaker 13: believe that is out there in a polygraph world.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Well, you had me at the FBI uses it is that?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: What you said, This is what the FBI uses.
• 21:47
  Speaker 13: I did.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, mate, Okay, if it's good enough for them, it's
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: good enough for me.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Also, what I'm getting to the end of my technical questions,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I like to lay a foundation before I get into
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the meat of the issue. The polygraph charts were evaluated
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: in numerically and globally.
• 22:03
  Speaker 13: What does that mean, it means when we look at
• 22:04
  Speaker 13: it globally to see if we see any issues with
• 22:07
  Speaker 13: the collection of the of the charts, the physiology that's collected,
• 22:13
  Speaker 13: we kind of get an idea. But then numerically means
• 22:16
  Speaker 13: that we actually give a number to each relevant question
• 22:20
  Speaker 13: that's asked, and we give it a plus or a minus.
• 22:23
  Speaker 13: And there are certain scores that we believe have to
• 22:26
  Speaker 13: be obtained in order to either pass or fail somebody
• 22:30
  Speaker 13: or call them you know, no opinion. But in addition
• 22:33
  Speaker 13: to that numerical score that I gave, there are also
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: two scoring algorithms that we use that the computer has
• 22:42
  Speaker 13: that scores the charts. You know that way.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Kendall Schuele.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: When you start talking about algorithms, you've lost me. I said,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: dummy down. You also said this opinion is applicable only
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: of these questions, not to be construed as an assessment
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of Seth Rogers truthfulness in other areas.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: You also state there are three outcomes, one deception indicated,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: two no opinion, and the other is no deception indicated.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Correct three choices, right, that's correct.
• 23:25
  Speaker 13: That's correct.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, Now could you tell me what was Seth Rogers's
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: demeanor when he entered your office.
• 23:34
  Speaker 13: We had a great conversation. Like you said, it took
• 23:37
  Speaker 13: a long time. We sat and talked for a long time.
• 23:40
  Speaker 13: I collected some background information from him to make sure
• 23:43
  Speaker 13: that he's suitable for testing.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: In my opinion, he was.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, wait a minute, boss, suitable for testing.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: You mean he's not drunk or high?
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Right? Is that what that means exactly?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: You know, did you do the smell test. I've always
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: wondered if polygraphers, like whenever my twins have to go
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: somewhere on a bus or a school event, or even
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: a plane, I always go up and speak to the
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: driver the pilot to just get.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: A with if they've been drinking.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So you assess the participant as to whether they may
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: be drunk or high or on meds.
• 24:18
  Speaker 13: We do. We observe that obviously, and you know, we're
• 24:22
  Speaker 13: in close proximity and talk to each other. If he
• 24:25
  Speaker 13: had any alcohol breath, I believe I would have known it,
• 24:28
  Speaker 13: particularly when I'm attached to the components to him for
• 24:30
  Speaker 13: the polygraph test. I'm right in his face, So yes,
• 24:34
  Speaker 13: I would have observed if he had any alcoholic breath.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: His demeanor you say seems relaxed. Did it remain relaxed
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: throughout the polygraph?
• 24:44
  Speaker 12: It?
• 24:44
  Speaker 13: Did see really relaxed?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Mister Schule, you conducted the polygraph?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And what were the critical questions that you asked Seth
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Rogers Sebastian's father.
• 24:56
  Speaker 13: The relevant questions as we call them, that I asked
• 25:00
  Speaker 13: Seth on the polograph test the determined if he was
• 25:03
  Speaker 13: involved in any way in this child's disappearance.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Were number one.
• 25:08
  Speaker 13: Regarding doing anything to cause the disappearance of Sebastian Rogers.
• 25:13
  Speaker 13: Do you plan to answer those questions truthfully? He responded, yes,
• 25:19
  Speaker 13: I didn't ask him. Did you do anything that could
• 25:23
  Speaker 13: have caused that boy's disappearance who we discussed today? The
• 25:28
  Speaker 13: answer was no. And the third question was were you
• 25:31
  Speaker 13: involved in any way in the disappearance of that boy
• 25:35
  Speaker 13: who we discussed today? He responded no.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing the former head of the FBI
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: polygraph program, Kendall Schule, who polygraphed Sebastian Rodgers' biological father.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Seth.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Now, before you ask these three questions, do you plan
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: to answer truthfully? Did you do anything that caused Sebastian's disappearance.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Were you involved in any way in the disappearance of Sebastian?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Before you ask those I assume you ask several lead
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: up questions to get a barometer of how the polygraph
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: would respond to Seth Rogers.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 26:14
  Speaker 13: No, we're what we call control questions. You know there
• 26:16
  Speaker 13: might be are we in the state of Tennessee? Is
• 26:19
  Speaker 13: today Wednesday? Those sort of things, and those are the
• 26:23
  Speaker 13: control questions that we get from where we know he's
• 26:26
  Speaker 13: telling the truth.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: With us is Seth Rogers, Sebastian's biological father. Also with
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: us is the polygrapher who took the polygraph, Kendall Schule,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: and Tony mathis who is helping Seth weave his way
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: through this very difficult time in his life. And mister Schul,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: let me ask you one more question. Isn't it true
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: that you attempted a polygraph on Seth Rogers before this polygraph?
• 26:58
  Speaker 13: I believe we try to step one up and it didn't.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: It didn't. It didn't go through for some reason.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Kendall Schule, again, did you find Seth Rogers to be cooperative?
• 27:12
  Speaker 13: I found Seth to be extremely cooperative. He did everything
• 27:16
  Speaker 13: I asked him to do. There are absolutely no problems
• 27:19
  Speaker 13: with the interview that we had, as well as attaching
• 27:23
  Speaker 13: the components and getting good physiology to show that he
• 27:28
  Speaker 13: showed no signs of deception on this polygraph. I did
• 27:31
  Speaker 13: a numerical scoring, as we talked about before the show
• 27:35
  Speaker 13: that he passed. I also ran two algorithms through the
• 27:39
  Speaker 13: computer that showed that he passed. I even want to
• 27:42
  Speaker 13: step further when I got home and have another retired
• 27:45
  Speaker 13: FBI agent that I knew, come in and do what
• 27:48
  Speaker 13: we call a blind scoring of these charts, not knowing
• 27:52
  Speaker 13: whether who it was, what it was about, whether he passed,
• 27:56
  Speaker 13: whether he failed, and he also agreed with my opinion
• 27:59
  Speaker 13: of no exception indicated.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Back to Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's dad. Isn't it true,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Seth that you try to take the polygraph a time
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: before this one and it didn't work.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: What happened?
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: I was on prescribed medication for nerve.
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: I've got I've got a pinch nerve in my C
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: five and sea sticks that cause me pain down my
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: right arm. So they put me on prescribe medication for
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: dealing with the pain and trying to.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: Get it to relax.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: What mad was that it.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Was cycled benzaprene, which is a muscle relaxer, and GABA pinion,
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Gaba penton, which is a nerve blocker.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Seth, you have been the subject of so much hate online.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I've got a stack.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Of printouts of what people have put on instant Twitter
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: and Facebook and blah blah. For instance, this one says,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: we had a meeting this evening. One of the moms,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: her daughter is an intern and works with Nancy Grace.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: She said, a rumor is that Seth failed the polygraph
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: total fail, and now Nancy's team is doing damage control.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Nancy was cussing because she was in a quote pissy
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: mad mood. She told them polygraphs are not reliable and
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: so we have to be fair and say it's inconclusive.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Nancy's team was mad.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: They don't like him because he was rude not long ago,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and they refused to cover for him. That this doesn't
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a we don't have an intern, but this doesn't even
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: make any sense. We knew all along from the beginning
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: that Kendall tried the polly that you were on the
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: muscle relaxers and you volunteer to do it again.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: All of this is true.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: This is just one of hundreds of people attacking you.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Why seth Why why.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Do people get death threats for looking for their kid?
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 30:13
  Speaker 10: Over two months into the search for Sebastian Rogers, a
• 30:16
  Speaker 10: hope before a lead comes out of the town of Goodletsville, Tennessee.
• 30:20
  Speaker 10: Could a pair of pants found about twelve miles north
• 30:23
  Speaker 10: of Nashville be related to Sebastian Rogers. It hasn't been
• 30:27
  Speaker 10: disclosed where the pants were found.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: In the last hour's mysterious update in the search for
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a missing autistic boy, Sebastian Rogers, after a woman shares
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: a photo of a boy that is cannily similar to
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Sebastian all the way up in.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: The Smoky Mountains.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: This as a pair of pants much like a pair
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: of glasses. Our taking center stage straight out to Lauren
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Collin joining us an investigative journalists host at the outlier. Lauren,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: thank you for gift for being with us. Lauren, tell
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: me about the pants.
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: Yes, so may Sewi.
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: These pants were found by a volunteer that was searching,
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: and they were sweatsuit style black Allegedly what Sebastian was
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: last seen in and authorities confirmed that they are unrelated,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: but they still said they've received as of April over
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: three hundred tips and they are investigating.
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: All of them.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, I want to get back to the pants. Did
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: you say they were black sweatpants.
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: Black and sweatsuit style.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Sweatsuit style color black?
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: Yes?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Okay? Where were they found, Lauren Conlin.
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: So it has not been disclosed exactly where, but Goodletsville.
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: It's twelve miles from Nashville.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: It's part of Sumner County and Davidson County, Tennessee, depending
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: which side you're on, so it's kind of nearby Sebastian's home.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Back to Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's father. You can
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: find him online at hashtag Sebastian Strong. There is a
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: gofummy to support him in his efforts.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: He's had to hire a.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Private investigator and he go hours and hours and hours
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: day after day after day searching for his son. He
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: most recently returned from that rest stop we showed you
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: where there was an alleged sighting of Sebastian. That's GoFundMe
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: finding Sebastian Rogers family support. Seth what if anything have
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: you been told about that pair of black sweatpants that
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: they are.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: Not related to the to my son?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Do you know where they were found?
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: I know that they were found out a particular.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Park, a park a park. Do you know if they
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: were the right size?
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: No?
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Who told you the information about the pants?
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: I received a text message from them, the law enforcement?
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Question do you know what condition they were in or
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: if any DNA analysis was done for touch, DNA, hair
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: fiber or anything that relates back to Sebastian?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: How did they suddenly decide, Oh, yeah, these aren't his?
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: He said that the size was wrong.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Ah, the size was wrong.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: What wasn't he last saying wearing black sweatpants as we
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: were told by the Proudfoots.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Correct, Seth. When you learned.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: That sweatpants had been found but were ruled out according
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: to law enforcement? How did that make you feel? What
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: did that do to your will to keep searching?
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: And they said they didn't that those didn't belong to him.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: They just reinforced that North Carolina and when.
• 33:36
  Speaker 14: Sun was there, Sebastian Rogers goes missing. Mother Katy Proudfoot
• 33:40
  Speaker 14: leaves the family home to be with her husband and
• 33:42
  Speaker 14: their travel trailer while he goes back to work around
• 33:45
  Speaker 14: the Memphis area, while Sebastian's father, Seth Rogers, and an
• 33:49
  Speaker 14: army of volunteers continue to look for Sebastian. Katy Proudfoot
• 33:52
  Speaker 14: says she is concerned about leaving, but defends the decision
• 33:55
  Speaker 14: to leave by saying her son could be anywhere and
• 33:58
  Speaker 14: they are looking everywhere. Katie Proudfoot doesn't know when she
• 34:01
  Speaker 14: will return to her home.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Katie Proudfoot has reportedly not gone back to work. We
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: reached down to the Proudfoots asking if they would share
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: their current location. The Proudfoot's saying for safety reasons, they
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: are keeping their location private.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Joining us an All Star panel. Tony Mathis is joining
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: us along with Sebastian's father, Seth Rogers. Tony Mathis, what
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: do you make of the Proudfoots leaving the area and
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: not taking part in any searches.
• 34:35
  Speaker 11: Nancy, We really don't want to get into commenting about
• 34:38
  Speaker 11: the Proudfoots at this time, but I will tell you
• 34:41
  Speaker 11: that I spoke to Chris and Katie early on, and
• 34:46
  Speaker 11: I do know that Katie was getting a lot of threats,
• 34:49
  Speaker 11: so it was deemed to be better for her safety
• 34:53
  Speaker 11: to go with Chris and go back to where he
• 34:56
  Speaker 11: was working.
• 34:57
  Speaker 15: So outside of that, really want to get into comment
• 35:01
  Speaker 15: about why they did what they did to.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Seth Roger, Sebastian's dad. What do you make of the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Proudfits leaving the area and not taking part of any
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: searches that we know of for Sebastian.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: People have to live with their decisions that they make.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: It's my understanding that you are refusing to comment on
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: the Proudfits.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Not speaking about them.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Understood, and why I.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: Don't have anything to say about their actions. I can
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: speak for myself, Tony.
• 35:32
  Speaker 11: We have given Chris and Katie our word, we meaning
• 35:35
  Speaker 11: Seth and I that we're going to keep the interviews
• 35:38
  Speaker 11: focused on Sebastian.
• 35:40
  Speaker 15: We're doing everything we can do to clean up a
• 35:42
  Speaker 15: lot of the mess that's been created the last two
• 35:44
  Speaker 15: months to try to refocus on simply finding Sebastian. So
• 35:49
  Speaker 15: we're simply trying to do our part there.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Nancy, and mister Proudfoot, you have volunteered to take a polly, Yes, ma'am.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: If I were to set up a polly for you,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: would you take it?
• 36:05
  Speaker 16: Name the place?
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: In time?
• 36:06
  Speaker 16: Ma'm I'll be there.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And you're headed back to Memphis right now? Are you
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: in your RV? Right now?
• 36:12
  Speaker 16: I am in my RV. We are not disclosing our
• 36:15
  Speaker 16: current location just because of safety reasons due to the YouTubers,
• 36:20
  Speaker 16: the facebookers out there that have sent some very heinous,
• 36:23
  Speaker 16: threatening information and things of that nature, threatened to be
• 36:26
  Speaker 16: outside of our house, all kinds of nasty things.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: So Lauren Conlin question, to your knowledge, have the problemits
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: taken a polly and are they searching for Sebastian.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: Well, Katie Proudfoot announced pretty early on that she did
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: take a polygraph and she passed. As far as Chris goes,
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: I cannot to that. There's a lot of misinformation whether
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: he took one or not, and if he did take one,
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: if you passed or not. And as far as them
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: searching for Sebastian, they claim that they are working with
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: law enforcement. So whatever that means, that's that's on them.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Two Seth Rogers joining us.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Sebastian's dad, Seth, how do you keep going with all
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: of the hate, which I don't understand where that's coming from.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: How do you even put one foot in front of
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: the other looking for your son?
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: He's much son.
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: You're not going to stop me from looking for the
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: world's full of hate on Tuesday, ignored and look for
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: the good.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: In finding my son is the good.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: If you have information or think you have information regarding
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: the whereabouts off Sebastian Rogers, please call one eight hundred
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: TB I find one eight hundred eight.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Two four three four sixty three.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: We stop and remember American hero Charlotte Meckelbird police officer
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Joshua Ayer just thirty one. He was gunned down with
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: three others trying to serve a warrant in Chrlotte, North Carolina.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: A military vet, he leaves behind his loving wife, Ashley,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: and three year old son Andrew. American hero Officer Joshua Ayer.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests, thank you to MSM, but
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: especially thank you to you for being with us tonight
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and every night as our prayers continue for the safe
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: return of teen boy Sebastian Rogers. Nancy Gray signing off,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: see you tomorrow night six and nine o'clock sharp Eastern
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: and until then, good night, friend.