Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / Occultinarium - EP 33 - 3 of Swords
Transcript
- Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium, and tonight's hosts are Luigi: Luigi Amelie: Amelie Lynn: And Lynn. We are going to go into another tarot session. we are recording on the 10th of October 2026 in the second Decan of Libra. And that's also what we're going to talk about today. So that is the Three of Swords. for those who are familiar. And currently I only have one hand because my cat is occupying the other, so I cannot obviously move that. Amelie: That is true. Lynn: and we are recording on new moon as well. it's we're gonna have a direct sun and moon conjunction in less than an hour, I think. Or about an hour. So woohoo, that's the energies we're gonna go with today. Three of Swords, yes. one of the very I would say this is one of the cards that might scare people the most. Mmm. I mean we are in the swords, right? So the swords has a lot of stuff going on that people are not comfortable with. And the Three of Swords is rather unapologetic in its directness, I would say. if I were just to go a little bit into the decan end. So the decan in is from the second October, I believe, until the thirteenth, twelfth, thirteenth. And so we're right in it. And this is ruled by Saturn, both in the triplicity order and the descending order. So it's double rule Saturn and Libra as we're in right now as well, right? Libra is also where Saturn is exalted in. And that's gonna be the next decan again. Like the exact exaltation degree is gonna be the next deck, and the fourth source, which we're gonna talk about soon. but still Saturn is quite exalted as Saturn gets out his best well, his best side in Libra, like being very occupied with ruling justly, right? Following the rules, following the an ordered system, and doing so in a way that brings forth balance and and and justice to people. and the so the decanic images and the decanic vibe if you do not necessarily focus on the tarot cards and the tarot vibe yet, there's a there's some or a lot of marriage symbolism connected to this decan marriage and bonds that you forge with other people. And and if you think about it with you know I mean also with a tarot card the tarot symbolism in mind, where you often have this I mean a heart pierced by swords, right? And it's called sorrow, Lord or Lady of Sorrow. And the idea of like when you think okay, this this deck is about or can be about marriage, about bonds you create, about detrust. No, then you need to have a deep trust in somebody to then be betrayed in a way or to feel so strongly when something goes wrong. Right? So if you have contracts of any kind with another person on a social level or actual contracts, right? when that bond or that contract breaks or gets betrayed, that is where you feel this three of swords. energy in its darkest vibe if that makes sense, Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: right? So it's yeah so this time talks about who you trust, who you bind yourself to, who you allow to be bound to, and would want to shed light on which of those bonds are good or not. would suppose. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's all about yeah, promises and bonds and of course and with Saturn, right? Saturn is all about making promises and keeping them. Right? So Saturn brings in this energy that you do not just give your word lightly. Like the Saturnian energy is like a word the word means something like it used to in the ancient days. And I'm a bit ancient in the sense so I never make a promise unless I know I can keep it. And when I say I will do so and so, for me personally, that is I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna feel really, really, really shitty if I for some reason won't be able to do it. So if I don't know for sure that I cannot do the thing that I'm saying I will do, then I will hedge the fuck out of it. Sorry. Always like, yeah, I will try or I will do my best or you know, but if I say yes I will do it or yes this and this, then I mean it. that's like it's but I'm also I guess best I guess I'm a bit Saturnian in that sense. Yeah. Amelie: that too but then I guess I've got that Saturn in there as well but yeah I cannot yeah I will Lynn: Yeah, Aquarius. Yeah. Mm. Amelie: never ever say I promise and then not deliver I just I can't do that no I guess this is why people might say that my gosh you're so negative or like you have to believe in yourself it's like it's not that I do believe in myself it's just if I think that you know it might not happen then why jinx it? Lynn: it's integrity Luigi: Hahaha. Lynn: too, right? It just shows integrity. And then some people just, you know, if they can just easily say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I'll do this, so yeah, you mean the world to me and then it's like, next day it's like, who is this person? You know, that is just so it doesn't fit into my worldview. Amelie: No, and how many of us have had that, and then Lynn: Mm. Amelie: things have not been delivered and the disappointment that comes with it is Lynn: Mm. Amelie: just horrible. I Lynn: Mm, mm. Yeah. Amelie: I guess it depends what kind of like life you lived. But in the beginning, you might let things slide. But then it starts this assumption of like, well, you promised but you know. You just know in your head that whoever says, promise, you just know that they probably are not being sincere. And I don't like that. Lynn: If they say the law, you you got this this what is it Gen Z or Gen X, I don't know, but you had there was this time where people were like going like, I swear, la la la la la, I swear, I swear a lot. I mean think that thing's still doing it. But you know it's the most insincere thing ever. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: also if you're just throwing it around like, we're talking about words and we're talking about trust and that's all the three of swords, so that that works. But yeah. Amelie: I mean, words are spells, aren't they? So I'm feeling Lynn: Yes. Amelie: sorry for the karma there. Lynn: Yeah, Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: unless they're just so, you know, I just it's just going to all the cracks, you know, like of karma and it's just being, you know not getting hit until next li until the next life. but yeah, no it really rubs Amelie: YOLO. Lynn: me the wrong way when people use the words too lightly. I mean like when like when we're talking about things that we have different levels of knowledge. off in our podcast that I'm still you know I'm like, you know, I mean I I'm like I I'm just talking about this. I don't really know too much about it. Some things I know more than others, right? So but I'll still like talk with confidence, but it doesn't I'm not gonna say like I swear this is a fact and this is how it is, you know, it's just one opinion. or maybe spec bothers, but Luigi: It goes back to integrity, like you said. Lynn: yeah, yeah, it's my opinion or it's whatever what I think. And maybe ten thousand other people think the same or millions of people or maybe not, you know, you never know. Amelie: I find it interesting that you have to tell that to people as well, because if I say something, it's kind of obvious that this is coming from me. It's my opinion. And Lynn: Mm. Amelie: I think also as a person, never been someone that had to or liked to push my opinions on other people. Obviously, if there's something that you're very, very sure of or something that you're very passionate about. then obviously you go a little bit dramatic, but still, no matter what it is, you should always know that, you know, this is also someone else's opinion. You might share their opinion and you might think it's right, but it's still someone else's opinion. So Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I don't understand why we have to say that, you know? Lynn: I think it's i you get us a little bit poisoned, I think, or affected i in academia. Because if you if you work in academia a lot or you know, and y you have to back up your claims by, you know, this scientist said that and this person said that and it said in paper so and so and so, that this Luigi: referencing. Lynn: is correct what I am saying right now, right? So the more every like like them bes especially people who are scientists or or work with you know, fac fact based stuff, they're more likely to also remember like, yeah, but this is according to so and so and according to so and so. 'Cause you mean you need to defend whatever, like if you write a thesis on something, you need to defend the thesis as well and you have to have it backed up and then you cannot just have your opinion. But with people who are normally talking like you and me, then I also I think it should be obvious that, you know, is my opinion. But then academics I guess they will be like, Who said this? And why is this why do you present this as a fact? And you know Amelie: But then it goes also like, well, this scientist said so and so and they did a study on this and that. You can always contrast it with, well, but there's another scientist that did this and that and he got a completely Lynn: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amelie: different outcome. And this is where you have discussions. Lynn: Yeah, right. Discussions. Okay, let's bring it back to our three of swords. Luigi: I was just pondering on everything that you shared so far on the value of words, on the value of intention. And I suppose very in line with the Libra subjects, isn't it? Like contracts, bonds, like you said, Lin. Yeah, but I think this is probably one of the cards that people no matter where background they come from, but especially the newbies to tarot, they tend to be more, I don't like this, what's going on here? Is this really meant to be for me? Why? Why to me? Why me today? But I personally find it, as many other cards, an exquisite card. And to your point, Lynn, and to your point, Amelie, I think he is probably the highest expression of both Libra and the power of the number three and by extension the power of Binah, because the title as well that you refer to, the Lady of Sorrow, has a strong connection to the spiritual experience of Binah, which is the vision of sorrow. So I think there's a lot to do in the Three of Swords that connects to the spiritual experiences and learning of Binah, the Great Mother. And I think it's probably connected to amongst other things, separation. Because I remember we were talking about last time the two of swords, and I remember we were talking about the descending of Persephone into the underworld and the coming of the dark season. I think there is now, because now we have to remember that we're still obviously in Libra ruled by Venus, the Divine Mother, but also in the Tarot imagery, we have the Empress, we have Demeter, we have the Divine Mother. And maybe an aspect of that sorrow is the separation, like, shall not see you, child of mine, for the next six months, and the land shall be laying barren until you return. And that's maybe an aspect of the sorrow that we're talking about here. But on top of the exultation of Saturn in Libra, like, understanding the most, what's the good word for it? the most complex aspects of our existence. We are raised in safety ideally, children are very... What's the word I'm looking for? They're looked after, they're protected, they're nourished, they're taught values that they're also usually instructed to think in a certain way, which I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but I don't know what's been your experience and you please share your experience and... anybody who's listening, please comment your experience. But I remember me being raised almost under a glass dome and when I came into contact in my personal life with things that did not reflect those teachings, those values, those learnings, the shock and the sorrow that I experienced and felt. And I think an aspect of Libra and Saturn exalted in Libra is to learn, look, I'm going to teach you how to lead the best life possible. I'm going to teach you values. the Venus rulership. I'm going to teach you how to love life, how to live life expressed in the most exuberant and passionate manner, but I'm also going to teach you realities that we need to be mindful and aware of so that you learn to strike the balance, the mantra Lynn: Mm. Luigi: of Libra itself. So yeah, I think there's a lot in there. And also, I think you guys can probably perceive it by image alone. Obviously we know that Pamela Pixi, she takes a huge amount of inspiration from the Sola Busca, specifically in the Three of Swords. And if you look at the image that we have right there, that Amelie is kindly holding up, there is another spiritual riddle going on there with the three swords reflecting exactly to a point the three paps that leave the supernos into the heart of the tree. into Tiphereth and therefore the swords striking or piercing the heart and we know that I forgot now I think it was maybe Paul Forster case if it wasn't Paul Forster case it might have been someone else but they refer to Tarot as a Yetzirah tool you know as a tool of air a tool of formation and we are in the realm of the swords the realm of Yetzitah the realm of air and the realm of formation and those paths those formative paths They're instructing the individual on how to reach the heart center, the center of the universe, the center of life and the center of the self, maybe, perhaps. Amelie: I have the Sola Busca up here. I'm thinking maybe I should look if I can find Luigi: Of course you do. Amelie: it. But yeah, of course I do. But I find it very difficult to Differentiate from one another sometimes. But I'll try. I'll try to find it. That would be interesting. Luigi: No pressure. Lynn: was just doing the little numbers games that we like or that you per personally like to do like so I was looking at the paths that you just described. So we were Luigi: Mm. Lynn: thinking the the paths of number seventeen, thirteen and fifteen, right? So the lover is the high priestess star or well we're having the star here but that can be discussed. But either way like seventeen, thirteen and fifteen and adding them up is forty five. Which then is nine, which is Yesod so right under Tiphareth and the unconscious. I don't I'm just I'm just mentioning Yeah. Luigi: 45 is also, no no no, it's good because 45 is also a very Saturnian number. But also, obviously we have the star, we know that we can also, but Lynn: Yeah, we're talking about these My hand has been freed. Here, here, here. Luigi: we know that we can also place the emperor there. Amelie: think I was very lucky. Luigi: So if you do like six plus two plus four, you get 12 I think, is it? Six plus two plus four is 12, yeah. And if you reduce it, you return to the number three. Lynn: Yes. Yes. huh. also five is the number of Venus. Luigi: in terms of the five petals of the rose. Lynn: And the five stars and also the the two plus three go going together, making the five. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: The male and the feminine and yeah, whatever. We're going we're going off on numbers now. You Luigi: They are intriguing. Lynn: Yeah, they are they are quite intriguing. Yeah. Amelie: very lucky it was kind of on the top Luigi: You found it. Amelie: of the yeah I found it Lynn: wow. Luigi: It's really grimy to look at. I love that there is the wreath, like Lynn: It's so grisly. Yeah. Luigi: very echoing of the world card, I suppose. Amelie: I find this whole deck is quite grotesque in a weird way. I don't know. Lynn: Mm. I'm immediately drawn to it. Amelie: Yeah, I just, when we went for the exhibition and I saw it for the first time in their shop and it was sold out, I was like, why? And I had to get it because I... I was so intrigued. I just really wanted to see all of these cards and these images, because they're pretty grotesque. mean, they're not like they really... the way they make you feel things. And I guess that's the whole point. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: That's it. Amelie: It's very expressive and yeah, it's not child friendly, I guess. Lynn: Ha ha ha. Luigi: It just makes you reflect. Again, to me, perfectly depicts the vision of sorrow, that spiritual experience that we mentioned before. And again, the child, Amelie: Absolutely. Luigi: there is definitely something going on between the separation of mother and child, whether it's Persephone and Demeter, whether it's Binah and Tiphareth, the child of Binah. And I guess it's also an aspect of life in itself, isn't it? Not just for humans, but for animals, isn't it? baby foxes that need to leave the den at some point and the mothers have to almost kick them out, know, like it's time for you to find your own way, your journey to independence, your journey to self-discovery. And it's interesting, I suppose, to have this conversation because again, the Libra discussion or the Libra theme, like Libra being the sign of the other self, the relationship sign. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: So, yeah, like I guess it offers... without giving away too much information about our personal lives. But you know how sometimes we mention like, I'm going insane. I need some alone time. I need my own independence. Lynn: Hm. Luigi: And there's a, in a way, when coming together with another individual, whether it's one or multiple individuals, although multiple individuals is probably more relatable to Aquarius than it is to Libra, but regardless. Again, there might be a, for lack of better words, sorrow in learning how to adapt Yourself, your identity, your views, your ways with the other self or someone else, for lack of better words, identity, routine, views. Not making sense. Lynn: Yeah. I was actually going to pick up on something that you mentioned earlier with with kind of the harsh lessons to to be learned after the separation from a more like protected, you know, childhood or whatever. Some people don't have protected childhoods, right? but like for for my upbringing, for example, like my family was not big on talking about emotions or there has not really been any preparation. And I mean some some families maybe do, but I feel like a lot of people, mm, my generation, where it's like not where you've not really been prepared for the emotional side of of things that would happen once you leave the nest and make your own connections with people. Or it's really hard to prepare for that as well because I guess you have to go through it yourself to know how to deal with it. And and then Saturn being this quite harsh teacher who is harsher the younger you are, okay, right, and gets a bit more lenient the more well experiences or wisdom you collect for yourself throughout your life. But if you have like this young fledgling who's just left home, that is like where life potentially is gonna be the harshest with the harshest experiences happening because you just very you know, blue eye, like the fool, just stepping in there and then actual life happens. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: and and I think the three of swords is I mean it's huh, there's so many things to say about like I one thing I wanted to say is that with the three of swords this intensity of feelings and the sorrow and like the the really well, shitty things that you can feel, like complete heartache and depression and all that. In the Three of Swords it's the most pure in a sense, where in some of the other the later swords it's more of where we in a way not really have chosen it ourselves because people don't like to hear that, but where our predicament is is a bit more dil deluded or or muddullied by the ego, maybe? If that or I'm just throwing out ideas. Like Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: you're it's not such a pure heartache anymore. Like even like in the Nine of Swords, for example, later or whatnot. Like the the the ache and the depression you feel is a very different kind from that of the Three of Swords. And I mean we We have explored the eight and the nine and the ten of swords already, so we can check out those those videos. but Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: also this thing about feeling, you know, if you have heart like s actual swords in your heart, then there's you you cannot do anything about it unless you actually feel those and pay attention to this. and then you can pull them out if you were so inclined, right? But if you ignore what's happening to yourself, to your centre, to you know, to you, what makes you if you don't pay attention to it and if you ignore what's happening, then you cannot change your predicament either. And this idea of like having to really feel something and experience it. In order to then change it. Luigi: Yeah, it's definitely, it connects probably also to a connect, to a relationship with the Dark Knight of the Soul to some extent, possibly. Because if we think again where we come from, the Two of Swords, and where we're moving towards, the Four of Swords, there is Lynn: Mm. Luigi: an aspect of initiation within this triad, isn't it? Like in the Two of Swords, a realm of peace and tranquility and clarity even. opening up the doors to your shadow self and hopefully embracing your shadow self to then come out the other end in truce, in sanctuary, in newly knighted, for Jacob at the words, not that you need to be solely knighted, there's probably other ways and crafts that apply into the new era. Lynn: Yeah. But there's a balance. There's a balance on the s the the second the two of swords. Yeah, you're going into this balance. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: And again, like, guess, again, maybe we're taking it too abstractly, but I'm going to go for it nonetheless. Like, again, there is the crossing of the abyss that's going to happen, not just with the three of swords, with any three moving into any four, but here, because we are in the realm of the mind, it's probably more dire than it was in other elemental kingdoms before or after. So possibly, you know, the dark sea of Binah, I suppose, and the dark sea of the Abyss is definitely reflected in the color black of the Thoth, Three of Swords. So it's probably there, yeah. So it's probably there Lynn: Yeah, this one. Yeah. Luigi: telling us of the experience that you Lynn: I think. Luigi: will endure by crossing the Abyss. Lynn: And it's such a dark art. I mean it's really you have all the greys and the blacks in there and it just looks so hopeless, like how this how these swords are just shattering that perfect rose up there. without any form of lenience and the the sword that middle sword that we're having here that's actually the same sword as in the ace of swords so I think I have it here Luigi: Yeah, it reflects the sword of Philemon. Lynn: yeah yeah so we're having the the same sword here. Luigi: I think there is an indication or an invitation rather to not forsake the light but embrace the darkness and I guess that's another linear message with you know the season that we're approaching, Samhain which we're going to talk about in some episodes soon. do not... Obviously from a mortal human practical perspective, winter comes with its challenges like any other season maybe but... particularly in times where technology was not around or available. This was the season where you were rolling the dice, will we see another spring, will we see another summer. But I think the holistic wisdom or at least a holistic message of the Three of Swords, again, it speaks about embracing the darkness, either the darkness out of you or the darkness within you. Amelie: Quick correction, I actually found the wrong card. Like I told you guys, I was like, where Luigi: Hahaha! Amelie: is the heart? Where is the heart? Like I said, like I find these cards are just so confusing. This is actually the three of wands. Because Luigi: I see. Amelie: I looked through all of them because look, I found a bloody heart. But how was I supposed to know? Lynn: yeah. It's so Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean yeah it's not i it yeah, I mean I saw it wasn't really looking like swords, but I didn't know the deck so I'm like maybe stylized Amelie: well because I thought to myself this is so different because now I'm going to hate myself throughout the episode but this is the correct one Lynn: Yeah yeah. Luigi: You Amelie: doesn't this make a little bit more sense now Lynn: It makes a bit more sense, but I mean the the alignment of the the one slash swords is exactly the same, so I get it. But you still have the wreath. Mm. Mm mm Amelie: Exactly! And I haven't experienced that with any other deck that would have this alignment with the wands. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: But yeah. Lynn: which I find extremely interesting because it is the deck and right across from it, right? So we're having we're having the three of swords opposing the three of wands or Luigi: once. Lynn: like the decans of Libra the second decad of Libra opposing directly the second decan of Aries. so that makes actually perfect sense that there is a that there there's a connection also in the cards. I actually really like that. And the the second decade of Aries is double sun ruled, right in in the right so we having the coldest planet and the hottest or body in the sky, right? The coldest and the hottest opposing each other there. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: yeah, yeah, yeah. And Aries and Yeah, it's hot. Three of Wands is is hot. Amelie: I was looking at them and what kind of threw me off was the swords are red here as well. And well, no, the swords are just like red in general because they're in the, what's it called, sheath? Sheath? Luigi: Mm. Lynn: Hmm, mm-hmm. Amelie: And I find what threw me off that I think that these things up here look like little people stomping on your head. They look Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Amelie: like little people stomping on your head. when we were talking about alone time, yeah, this is like people stomping on your head and you just want to be alone. So that made sense. But I'm like, does not make sense completely because there's no heart Lynn: Tiny little Amelie: there. Lynn: a tiny little anecdote, but I I Luigi: Are you feeling? Lynn: just found yeah, I just found it very funny because you you probably realised this while while Luigi and I were talking and just during the time while we were talking, for your location, the ascendant shifted into Aquarius and our and Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: our Sun Moon shifted into the ninth house. which is like house of learning and then we were just talking about the new moon and stuff. So I was at the conjunction. You know, I was just like this you know, the sun is now like in Libra ninth house for you guys and Ascendant was just aqu is just went into Aquarius. And then Amelie, our Sun Aquarius has no I need to correct this. We taught the wrong thing. I I I love I I love that. Amelie: Yes, can't have that. Luigi: Hahaha! Lynn: That was that was fun that it was a f funny timing. It was like kind of on the dot 'cause I saw it shift of it next to me, so I saw it shift over. So that was that was funny. Luigi: And I was also wondering, because Amelie was saying, I'm gonna be mad at me Amelie: Not a coincidence. Lynn: No Luigi: for the rest of the episode, and I was gonna ask you Amelie, do you feel the sorrow? Amelie: If I can feel the sorrow. Luigi: Just from what you said before, I could sense the frustration and so I was just like, it feels like the 3 of Swords is acting out upon us right now. Amelie: Yeah, yeah, a little bit. maybe this is why, because it doesn't feel like this, like it's piercing through my heart. It mostly feels like it's stomping on my head. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: probably the confusion came from there, because that was Lynn: Mm. Amelie: probably like, this is the face, you know, you make just look, look at this. Yes, Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: basically. Luigi: swollen cheeks. Amelie: I guess it makes sense if it's the Wands as well because the fiery side of frustration and screams. Luigi: Should we look at the colors of the cards or do we already touch upon it? Lynn: Yeah. Yes, yes. Shall we do the Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: thoth? Do you wanna go onto the thoth first? The d darkness. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, why not? So we got like obviously the black, which would be the briati color of Bina. I'm trying to think what other color would be applicable because let's see. So for Libra, what colors do we have? So we have emerald or blue. I think that might be applicable for the Thoth card, deep blue green. Because if Lynn: Mm. Luigi: I look at the Thoth card, there's some deep blue green in those. Lynn: We have I mean the swords. Yeah, the swords Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: are green and then we're having this blue Stilo, blue, greenish. Mm. Luigi: Yeah exactly. And then what other colors are there? we see? Let's see. So deep blue green, there's pale green, there's an indigo color possibly for Saturn. What color is that? Blue black. Lynn: There's like a yet. Yeah. We also have the yellow of the petal, the destroyed Luigi: Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, and yellow can be applicable to the element of air, which we're currently in with Lynn: Mm. Luigi: the Libra season and sorts. Amelie: So you want me to pull up the golden dawn card? Lynn: Yeah, sure I do. Luigi: Yeah, yeah. wow. Very bright. Amelie: It's very yellow. Yeah. Lynn: that's very different. That is very different. It's so vibr I mean it's always vibrant, but I hadn't expected it to be so very yellow. It almost Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: makes it look like a very positive card, which it can be. Luigi: You know the inside, so you got the yellow background and what is the inside background? Does that look like brown to you? Lynn: Yeah, that's very black. Amelie: It's brown, yeah, it's brown. Let me see. Luigi: Yeah, so brown, let's see. Brown, brown, brown, brown, brown, brown, brown, brown, Lynn: Does does it say Mm, I mean I was thinking of the brown and the very earthy is very Saturnian, right? But I was wondering if Luigi: Yeah! Lynn: it's if it says anything about the shape of that brown spot. Because it seems slightly random but also not random. And I'm like I'm like forced to look at that brown shape that is there in the middle and the five petals that are two and three. Luigi: mean, it looks like a country to me. It reminds me Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: the geographical shape of a country, but I don't know which country. Exactly. But the Lynn: But which country which country Luigi: dark brown is the Yezirati color for Binah, so that we'll check out. And we already mentioned the yellow. Blue, it's one of the colors for Saturn, or least dark blue is. And the red, so the red petals that you have there, Amelie, and I'm thinking also of the red heart within the Smith deck. So the Azzeluthian color for Binah is crimson, which is not exactly red, but it's not too far from red. So I wonder whether those petals and possibly the heart in the Smith deck is technically crimson and not exactly red. But again, I'm not. I'm not knowledgeable enough. I can only read what I can read, but I cannot see what I think I'm seeing when it comes to colors. Amelie: So what it says here is the background colour behind the swords is the dark brown, the colour of Binah and Yetzirah. This shade Luigi: Mmm. Amelie: is formed from the mixture of Binah King and Queen Scale colours Crimson, Red and Black. And that's all. Luigi: Yeah, but then the mystery for Lyn's question of what is that shape, we're going to have to meditate on it. Lynn: What what is the shape? Amelie: Interesting. Lynn: And it's the I was gonna say only one, but I mean it's it's kind of striking how in this one the direction of the swords is from bottom to up. While in the Smith deck we am from the top to bottom piercing the heart and well we have, you know, a tri triangle for the thought, right? Where it's coming from all three sides. and in Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: yours they're kind of just they're aligned next to each other, pointing upwards, not even crossing. You know, not even crossing. Held by these blue hands. Mm, it's a very different Amelie: Yeah that's the thing. I don't- Lynn: depiction. Amelie: Something that I liked in what it said in the book for this card, let me see if I can find it It says, here she is, the great dark mother in her destructive aspect, creating hardship, trouble and pain. She's not evil. She is the great destroyer who breaks down form in the natural course of things. I quite like that. Lynn: Are we thinking are we thinking Kali here or also the blue? Yeah. Amelie: Exactly, I was also thinking about... That's exactly what I was thinking about. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Sekmet Lynn: Uh-huh. Amelie: That too. There's a few of those that we could probably... Lynn: I was I I was just thinking of our of our swords court cards. I was thinking of the Queen of Swords, right? And the Queen of Swords with her also being very being able to be very cruel and heartless Amelie: Noooo Lynn: no. she can be Luigi: discerning. Lynn: So Amelie: for your own good. Lynn: so that yes, it's for your own good, for sure. But I mean this also this entire energy, you know, I mean it's even though or maybe because it is can be very painful, excruciating, terrible, terrible experience. you know, the higher powers of play this is good for you because if you get through it you grow and you're like, I don't wanna go through it, I don't want it at all But if you do get through it if we do get through it as is also the if, right? If you can make it through, then yes, there's a big potential for you to grow and become a better person or a more person, you know, something. I am, yeah. Amelie: There is an initiation in this card to become the new you in a sense. Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: You basically have more wisdom about yourself specifically Lynn: yeah. Amelie: and you can then work around it to become a better you. Lynn: I can attest, yeah. For Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: anybody who's Luigi: end it. Lynn: gone through that, yeah, it's Amelie: Absolutely. And I think people who have not gone through this three of hearts situation, three of hearts, three of hearts, three of swords, I'm Lynn: Mm. Amelie: looking at this heart because I'm just mesmerised. Someone that hasn't gone through this is either someone that is very young or had a very good good life in a sense of you get everything for free almost an easy life easy life yeah Lynn: An easy life, not necessarily good I guess, but very easy. Luigi: yeah, but statistically speaking, chances are that every single individual at some point, whether they realize it or not, they will come to meet with a dweller on the threshold. They will come to have to face the reflection and or the shadow. Lynn: Yeah. And it's individual how long of a phase you will have in your life that is that, right? I mean for some people it might just be that they get fired from one job, you know, and then they or, you know, in it's not and for other people the three of swords kind of phase might last for five or ten years. in in like something about their life might just last that long. And for others it's not. But I mean we all do go through these cycles in various Luigi: Saturn's return. Lynn: Various degrees. Amelie: This is definitely Lynn: yes. Amelie: a card that you just cannot get away from. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: You just can't get away from this. But Lynn: Mm. Amelie: I think how long it takes for you to kind of recover from a situation like this also depends on you as well and what you do with the situation. Because many of them are there to kind of... teach you maybe a different way of doing things and different way of thinking, being, And many times it's just very difficult to dig yourself out of your own routine or comfort zone. Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: How does this card show up for you personally? I'd be interested if you're having if it follows the standard of like how one might interpret it or if it shows up for your own personal readings different or in which situation it does. Luigi: I think for myself, again, it opened up the teachings of the Divine Mother, you know, so understanding that in order to create, in order to grow, in order to achieve, that does not come without, I don't necessarily like the word, but that does not come without sacrifice. That does not mean that you have to sacrifice if you don't want to, but it leaves the individual to a choice, like do you want to stay where you are or do you want to proceed by proceeding there's maybe I don't know if I'm going to choose the right words maybe it's mercury retrograde who knows but there will be a reckoning we blame it regardless on mercury no I'm kidding Lynn: No. Hm. Not yet. Not mer not not retrograding yet. Luigi: It's just a perennial state of being for myself. you know, Lynn: Ha ha ha Luigi: so it's just, again, I don't think the card pressures anyone. The Divine Mother doesn't pressure anyone to let go and forsake and shed if nobody wants to. But then it's for the individual to acknowledge where they choose. And I use the word choose very loosely because sometimes we're not always able to choose depending on circumstances. But yeah, it leaves the individual with the agency to choose, shall I stay or shall I go? Shall I retain the comfort that I've created so far? Or shall I progress further into the next stage? Which, I don't know exactly what it will bring me, but chances are statistically and spiritually that it will bring more rewards. Because the more skin a snake sheds, the longer it grows, for lack of better metaphors. So yeah, really just, for me at least, touched wood. I don't have any wood next to me, so this will have to do. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: Yeah, for me at least, it really brought up these levels of initiations within the Divine Feminine Tradition and within the Divine Mother's Tradition. Amelie: I agree. I mean for me It really depends on the context and because I always go with whatever is happening. But it's very similar. It's kind of the things that we talked about. because it has the heart in there. There's a lot of people that kind of think about this card as a breakup card. You know, it's always about love and breakup. And I try not to, think about that, because it's not just that. And I think this is why a lot of people are afraid of this card, because as soon as they see this, they think someone is going to break up with me. and I mean, could be, Lynn: Could be. Amelie: this is why it's just very, the context with every single card, the context is just very important. Luigi: Absolutely. Amelie: But it's just, so if you are someone that are getting your cards read and you see this card, don't instinctively think that, my God, my husband wants to divorce me. because that's not really, it could be the case, but it's not always the case. Luigi: Ha ha ha. Amelie: which is... I guess that's why it's a little bit difficult when it comes to more scary cards of the deck. people just kind of put a little bit too much emphasis on like crap. it's not a pleasant card, but, it's a certain initiation. I guess all the cards are in a way, but Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Amelie: this one is a bit more severe initiation. Luigi: Yeah, or a specific thematic level of initiation. I think as well when I encountered it, it has it had me questioning the things that my mind was perceiving, you know, like like experiences that cause pain. What to what level the pain is quote unquote real. And that's not to diminish anybody's pain, but you know, like a lot of times f we experience pain because of the perception that our mind retains. from the experience itself rather than what is concretely taking place, you know. And that's why I think regardless of the mysteries that the three paths that connect to the Tiphareth are representing, there is also a more a approachable message of equilibrializing or harmonizing the mind, the path of the lovers. the the heart or the emotions with the path of the Aradia the priestess, and or the spirit with the path of either the star or the emperor. so it's again a reminder of okay, something may be happening or has happened or will happen. let me deal with it in a in a manner that allows me to be mindful of my different realms, my mind, my heart, my spirit, and how these three different unique and powerful realms affect my body. Last but not least. Lynn: Was really really valuable insight there. Thank you for that. also it's new moon right now conjunction. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: Wow. Lynn: Happy new moon. Luigi: Happy newly bra. Lynn: Yeah. for for me like of course everything depends, right? It used to be more in in the sense of there's going to be or there's like some uncomfortable experience that I have to face or go through in the heart often but lately it's been more like I mean I don't get it I'm not I it's not one of those cards that I get very very frequently right but when it has shown up for me in the past year or so say. it it was more of like a thing that when I wasn't looking at something properly about myself, when I try to maybe run away from something or, you know, like just blissfully ignore something and be like, No no no no no no no no. This is not, this is not, mm mm, you know? And then I would sometimes get this card and be like there's something you should look at it. It's right here. I'm like, no, look at it. Okay. You know. So both that and the well the purity or that I don't really know what I'm saying when I'm saying this. It just feels right. But the purity of the duality that is in the three of swords and the purity of mind that is in that That kind of energy. Yeah. Luigi: That expansive expansion. Lynn: Or mm expand. Like a heart, maybe. Yeah. That's the heart. Amelie: That's the heart. Luigi: Heartbeat. Lynn: Like a heartbeat, yeah. so yeah, that's that's been it a bit for me, I think, with that card. Do we have any last Luigi: Lots of food for thoughts. Lynn: yeah, do we have any last words? yes, of course. Mm-hmm. We did. Amelie: Shall we just show the hermetic? Because we kind of forgot about it. It doesn't have a heart. Luigi: look at the shape. Amelie: It's like a fountain. Lynn: Mm. Mhm. And here's where the Golden Dawn and Luigi: Come so it's like a carton. Lynn: and the Hermetic are similar in that they come from the bottom up with three hands Luigi: Mm. Lynn: grabbing them. Mm. And Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: also the second sword again is that same or similar sword, like with the moons, right? As the the ace of swords. Mm. The Luigi: And like in Toth, the two additional swords they bend. Mm. Lynn: Yes. Are curved, yeah. More like s scimitars, maybe, rather than swords. But pointy things that cut stuff and stab stuff, that's for sure. Whatever we were gonna call it, swords or scimitars or sabres or Luigi: Yeah, and the statement holds, you know, the one that you were reading the Amelie, the Divine Mother, she she she breaks down form, like the the petals, the broken rose, you know, and even here, I'm assuming that will be a rose, might not be, it might be a lotus who knows? but again the s form is being broken down to manifest it in the next stage. Amelie: The, angels are Harayel and Hocmiah. Luigi: I trust you. Amelie: Let's just leave it at that. Lynn: Yes, yes. Luigi: Ooh, I feel like I just came off a retreat, you know, from the Three of Swords Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: like thought so much, learned so much, felt so much. Lynn: Mm mm. There is a good insights here. Well, thank you very much guys for this lovely session on the Three of Swords. and thanks for you listening and watching. see you again in the next wormhole. Like, subscribe, comment and happy new moon or whenever you're watching. Luigi: Happy New Moon. Lynn: Bye.