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Enochian Magick with Frater RC Hermetic Podcast · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen? What a.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode we got a
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: couple of rejects with us, and we got a brand
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: new guest, somebody we haven't had on before. But before
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: I introduced fred RC, let me introduce the other rejects
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: joining me. And we got my main Headless Giant, what
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: is going on? To how are you doing?
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: You can find me at the Headless Giant on Twitter,
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: on YouTube, on Rumble now, and you can also find
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: my shows. On Monday night, we do Monday Alchemy with
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: aeros Up. She was just thron She's a really solid
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: person to have on there. And Tuesdays we've got seven
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: seven seven with Nick and Thursdays we've got the Magical
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: mail Bag. Arrows is supposed to be making an announcement
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: on the mail Bag this Thursday, so she's got that
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: video coming out, so that's gonna be awesome, So too
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: it for that Tomorrow and Sunday's Trialogus with Ethan, and
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: at some point during the week I do a show
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: with Jules called The Rust of Gods.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: That's been a kill a series. If you a least
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: check it out.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it is.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for joining U said, listen, I
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: really appreciate it, and we got well the man gin
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: What is going on, sir? How are you? What is up?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Cardinal Electric Head ninety three, mister ninety three boss, I'll
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: do all your titles say. Obviously, we just did two
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: hardcore hours on Speculative Cabala, you know, in lieu of
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Georgina and Shadow Madame Rose. I think we did a
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: much better shows me.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a much more in depth conversation.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Just put it out. Yeah, grown up.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: So if people want to check me out, they can
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: check me out at Threshold Saints, I G and ex Twitter,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: as well as at my personal account at wukmrie Born
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: to be uk O and g Reborn. Obviously, we do
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: have a gray Lodge space on this Friday Speculative or
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Friday Night Nastic Mass. I don't know what we're going
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: to discuss today but or that day, but it'll be
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: something cool, I promise. And uh, I just dropped an
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: episode with the Greg Kaminski. Obviously, Ike from the Arcanem podcast,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Like Baker props to you.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Ike.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: He's in the comments and he's coming on pretty soon
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: in the end of the month. And hell, so yeah,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I got lots of shit going on, and like just
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: watch the space because I'm doing things. Thank you, guys,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm really excited and fred or RC, thank you
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: so much for coming. And thank you Nick for inviting me,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: because I'm actually really excited for this one. I don't
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: know that much about Nokay Magic, just full disclosure, but
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I'm interested to learn.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Me too, me too, And we got my man Robbie
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: me know of course. No thank you and Robbie Marx please,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: sir the storyteller himself. Let everybody know what's up with you.
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: Hey, how's everybody doing out there? Good to come hang out.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: I am Our Marx or Robbie Marx. I'm an artist, illustrator, researcher.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: I'm working on a book, working on illustrations for that
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: book now. I also have my meta Mindcast meta mind
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: Cast podcast. If you want to check that out. You
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: can check out all my links at link tree r
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: M A r X and that'll pull up everything for you.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: And yeah, I'm excited for this too. Eenochian Magic is
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: something that i've kind of like, uh, you know, delved
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: in and out of over the years numerous times, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: this is gonna be a fun one.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Great to meet you, fred Or ARC.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so finally the guest himself. We got Frida RC
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: from the Hermetic Podcast. Please, sir, let everybody know what
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: your dealer is and let everybody know what you plug
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: whatever you want, please.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I'm fred Or RC. Have the Hermetic podcast. Go to
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Hermetic podcast dot com for more of that, and I
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: have a little cyber guild in there that you can
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: join for free and do free classes, free workshops, free hangouts,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: also on YouTube, and if you are sick and tired
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of free stuff, then I host conferences, workshops and retreats
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: through the Arcane Research Society for an annual membership so
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: that we can function internationally and in Nokia Con has
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: been quite successful the last two years despite the challenges
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of the world, so next year we'll be even bigger.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Go to Arcane Research Society dot com Forward Slash twenty
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: twenty six and see the insane guests and workshops we
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: will have there, including Scott Michael Stenwick, another Nokian expert,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: who will be doing a special workshop on CaCO diamonds
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and using them for wealth, which is going to be
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: wild and limited to only twenty people, So sign up
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: today as well.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: That's awesome, man, nice?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: How do you like them? Apples?
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I like it. I like it? Please if you don't mind.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I guess, like you know, I normally ask most people
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: when it comes to the occult, what did it? Most
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: guess that anyway, but I guess like, what got you
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: started to? How'd you end up turning into fret? Honestly?
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: How did that happen?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Good question. I've thought about this a lot as
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I navigate middle age, and it's funny how you look
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: back on life and realize in retrospect maybe you didn't
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: have as many choices or as much agency as you thought.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if any of you have ever looked
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: back on your lives and had that experience and been like, oh,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't have that many choices in how I got here?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: That where I'm at is a bad place. It's just
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: you can see the factors that conditioned your life. So
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: seven years old, you know, growing up in a yoga cult.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: My parents practiced yoga to at least two hours a
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: day meditating, and by age seven I got initiated, had
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a beautiful ceremony. Age ten, got another initiative, and then
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: my parents split up in that sent me on a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: self discovery quest because you know, if it didn't work
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: for them, then why would it work for me. It
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: was my thinking at the time, and I discovered with
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Kuika drudrie esotericism in general, the occult and started practicing
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: things until I found something that worked. And what worked
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: was the Golden Dawn system. What worked was an Okean
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: magic and other specific practices. Joined the Golden Dawn when
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I was fifteen, got a dispensation to join after much
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: effort and including my parent being interviewed and signing a waiver,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: you know, in case anyone touched me in a bad place,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: then there was some protection for them. Looking back, I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: can't believe they initiated me so young, but I was
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: definitely worthy, and I guess they made the right call
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: because look at I've stayed in it the rest of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: my life and contributed as much as I can to
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the field of study. And an Okan magic is a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: particular passion of mine, mainly because I think it's so
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: under studied, under researched, and most of the most of
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the efforts to popularize it have led to it being
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: reduced rather than explored in its original fullness. Let's put
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it that way. So there's a synopsis of how I
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: got to where I'm at. Do you think it's I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: certainly try to my life, but you know I did
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: other things like I I you know, after grad school,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I went, I went to seminary, I got a Master's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: of Divinity at UBC, and I and I took a
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: job as a game designer for a card and board
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: game company. But then the recession happened and everyone I
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: knew went bankrupt. I worked for a couple of game companies,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: but then there was no work. So it's like every time,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: based on what I was born, every time I started
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: to get somewhere in a mainstream field of labor, the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: world said no, like unequippedly muting. When you know, things
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: were before COVID, things were starting to look good. I
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: was doing some voluntary work at a church in California
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and applying to college jobs. Then COVID happened. Now, after COVID,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I tried to get another college job. They said, look,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: there's just no room for people who look like you.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Oh the fuck is that discriminatory.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Universities here three strikers. Isn't that a charming title? Three
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: striker like a criminal? Oh right, right, yeah, you know
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about it. If you could tell.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Uh you said before and not enough people, I guess
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I went studying you know, you know something along those lines.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think what do you think that? Do you
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  Speaker 3: think the reason for that is because it might actually
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  Speaker 3: be too intimidating to people?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there's always going to be a tendency to
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: reduce things to its simpler forms, And and we've done
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: that now within ok and magic, right, We've we've given
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: enough as much entry level texts as I think anyone
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: could ever want for it. And I think what it's
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: demanding now is deeper study rather than people just brushing
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: off the nuances and complexities. What it's the things that
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: have remained unexplored are the very complicated aspects of it.
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  Speaker 1: So the practice is as simple as most magical practices
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to get involved in. But there's just a lot of
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: depth that we haven't actually looked at yet. And some
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: people are interested in the you know, using AI to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to look at the nuances of some of the charts
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that just make no sense really, you know, ostensibly they're
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: just complex number and letter charts, and maybe that well,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that's one avenue that some people are exploring. There's the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: other avenue of the parts of the earth, the political
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: magic aspect of it, which again some people say it's
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: nonsense and doesn't work, and some people like Scott Stenwick
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: have have charts and evidence that it works in especially
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: you know, statistically by focusing on smaller numbers, if you
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: if you like, I don't know how to say it
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: in a mathematical way, but you know you don't you
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: don't want to if you're going to use it for
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, lotteries for example, he points out, play this
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: music magic on small lotteries, not on the national one
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: or on the federal one. Use it in a smaller
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: pool and same as affecting elections or anything like that.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And so that's another avenue that could be explored in it.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: That's very exciting if you asked me. Given the political
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: instability in the world and the amount of corrupt people
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: that go into politics, if there's any good use for
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: an Okian political magic, it could maybe be too weed
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: out corruption and encourage less corrupt people to want to
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: be our leaders.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: On that angle.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: There is a definite political angle too. The Anokian channel
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: material that d was getting at the time, like they
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: were very explicit about the end of the world. What
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: role do you think some of these angelic entities may
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: be having in current political events.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I think too many to be calculated. Really. I think
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: it's not so much a matter of skirmishes, but all
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: out you know, chaos when you look at the world
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: in terms of if you look at reality in terms
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of an animistic view of everything being filled with dimonse,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: which is a hermetic view of the world, right, everything is,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: every aspect of everything has dmonse, many many, many, infinite
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: how many We can't say angels, spirits, all of these things,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and the Hermitica just calls them all dimonse. You know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: it might distinguish between some beings like star gods or
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: angels and other things like that, but generally it calls
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: them just spirits. And so if all of reality is
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: suffused with spirit and consciousness and intelligences, then I think
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: it's a massive array. It's overwhelming in experience personally, and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: which is why I think the techniques of magic are
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: so important, And I think that's also why the techniques
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of magic have relatively speaking, remained completely unchanged over time. Yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: You hear a lot of people, especially in this day
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: and age, say, oh, you know, the thing about magic
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: is you get to make up your own version of
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it and it can be whatever you want and it's
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: up to you. But it's like the history of magic
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: adamantly speaks against that reality. The history of magic is
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a series of techniques that we see, especially carried in
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the Western Solomonic traditions. The features are unchanged, and even
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: academics admit this, Otherwise they wouldn't have approved doctor Steven
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Skinner's PhD when he applied you know, that's what he
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: proved in his PhDs. Like, look at how nothing's changed
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: in magic. These key techniques, these key practices, these key
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: rules haven't changed, and when people try to change them,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: they revert back, almost as if these new fangled attempts
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to deviate from what works don't work. And I think
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: that is the case with a lot of when people
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: try to sort of slopsistically just reform everything to their
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: own species of practice. I think that's why you see
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff, yeah, not really working and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: just leading to delusion.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Before I started asking questions like this on the side, actually,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: if you don't mind, they to ask you to try
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: to like maybe give like a basic idea of guess
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: what is an Okean magic for people who don't even
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: know what this is?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Well, technically speaking, in Okian magic is the name that
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the Golden Dawn gave to their version of dan Kelly's
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: angelical magic. So if you want to be pedantic, and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's fun to be pedantic, of course, we'll also
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes very helpful. So this, for example, on screen you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: have here is one of Westcott's Wild and Psychedelic tablets.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Here's another Golden Down tablet. So the Golden Dawn took
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: their version of dan Kelly's magic, changed it a little
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: bit with the guidance of the secret chiefs of their order,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the spirit guides of their order, or their or their
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: own higher consciousness, their own noose, probably a mixture of
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: all of those things, and adapted it to meet the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: needs of to fit into their system, to build the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: system upon. It is what it looks like to me,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: because the initiations completely hinge on an Okian magic. So
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that's what the Golden Down did. They gave the name.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: They came up with the name of Okian magic. So
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: though I don't mind, obviously, the name in Okio magic
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: is used as a catch al term any variety of
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: dan Kelly's magic, right, so in colloquial terms, an Okio
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: magic reverse to all of it. But it's very wrong
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to refer to Golden Dawn magic as a Nokian magic
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: as sorry as neo and Nokian magic, because they're the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: ones who made up that name for their version.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: If you made something up and gave it a name,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: it would be pretty insulting for me to come along
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and say, oh, no, you're just doing neo. What are
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: whatever you called it? It's like, no, that's what you
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: call this, So stop calling Golden don magic neo and
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Nokian that's what that's what you refer to. Technically, anything
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: after that, anything based on Golden Down magic that changes
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: or distorts it or it reinterprets it, would be accurately
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: called neo Andokian magic. But for our parlance, and Nokian
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: magic refers to the magic that dan Kelly scribed from
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the angels who are the four Archangels and showed them
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: lesser aspects of themselves, the spirits that are composing the
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: archangelic bodies, these vast you know, cosmic and intelligences and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: beings and dimons, and showed us nuanced and detailed, lesser
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: spirits that compose them, and how to interact with that
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: matrix of reality through this angelical spirit language. And what
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: other people want to see them as angels or not,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I think is less important, though you can't deny the
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: fact that it comes from the four archangels. You pray
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to the four archangels to acxis this magic you pray
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to Jesus Christ to protect you and give you authority
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: to axis this magic? And what I think a lot
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: of people get confused about is they think it's dangerous.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: But they think it's dangerous after they strip out all
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of that. So they strip out all the stretching, they
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: strip out, you know, putting on tensor bandages for weak angles,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: They take away all the safety and guard rails, They
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: avoid any preparations that are at all described by the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: spirits to do this, and then they just jump in
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to a you know, hoping for the best. And that that,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of course I find hilarious but also sad. So we're
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: trying to re educate people as to fuller understanding of
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the system.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: So each one of these tablets represent one of the
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: four elements, and each one of those elements is subdivided
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: up over and over again into these different squares, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: those different squares represent a type of angelic intelligence of
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: that square which has the elemental effects and the letter
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: of because you know, it's all broken down in a letter.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: But that's another question I had. I was never aware
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: of the completion of the Inachian language. Isn't there a
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: lot more channeling that needs to take place to actually
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: come up with a working language.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a magical language. It's not a working language.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It's not a it's not a human language. It's a
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: spiritual language. As far as yeah, everyone who engages with
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: it will probably channel, scry or perhaps bring through some
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: new information. That's certainly possible. But I don't think I
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: don't think there's a tremendous amount of value in it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Like we've been given tools. You can reinvent those tools
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: if you want, if there's a reason to you. But
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: what would be the reason? Now you mentioned something else.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: The tablets don't represent elements that's only in the Golden
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Down version of the system that the tablets represent elements.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: In the original version, every single quadrant on the Great Table,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: which can be divided into tablets, every quadrant has all
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: four elements on it. Now, of course, you could say, well,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: in the Golden Dawn elemental version of the system all
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: four elements are there in the sub elements as well.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: It's like yes, of course, because everything's actually everywhere, and
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: we break things up differently for the maps that we
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: use to navigate this ultimately unknowable terrain.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: I think it's interesting.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: I think it's interesting when you go back into d
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: and Kelly's works, the descriptions of these forces and how
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: he details each individual one and moving through and they're
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: very reflective of the entities and the angelic and different
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: building block arconic forces within the Enochian texts and kind
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: of carrying that forward into this the system of communication.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know much about arconic forces. In the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Hermetic system. Arcons are positive planetary forces there to aid
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: and guide the soul. But most of the time I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: hear arcons set is in the sense of opposing forces
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: or you know, entity that are there to prevent us
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: from doing something. I don't know. I'm not too I'm
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: not too versed in in those forms of Christian gnosticism myself.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Again, I've been on the hermatic path since I was,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you know, a young teenager, so I've sort of stayed
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: in my lane. You could say I wandered off a
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: bit into the Bartic world, of course, and I'm glad
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I did spent almost twenty years as a full time
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: musiction and yeah, no regrets there, but yeah, you're me
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: on the archons. I don't know how to really, Yeah,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm just kind of, yeah, trying to express the
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: idea that these are different energetic forces within the various
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: like they they have different extensive power and I don't
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: want to say in ascending and descending order, but kind
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: of in their place in the universe.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Okay.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Again, I don't work with arkons in any way personally,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I've Yeah, I don't know what to say
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: about arcons. I've never worked with arkons. I don't have
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: any arcons in my consciousness at any point in time,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: except when I occasionally hear other people talk about their
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: roles and yeah, so are there arcons in the Aokian system.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe I've not come across any as such. There's kings
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and princes of the planets, and I work a lot
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: with those. I guess that some people might say that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: they are similar to arcons, but I tend to not
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: conflate systems too much because it can, you know, get
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: confusing and needlessly so sometimes. But that's fascinating, fascinating stuff.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: There's definitely arcons in the hermetic tradition, except there they
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: play a positive role there too, challenge and guide the soul.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: The Hermetic path on, like Gnostic paths, is incredibly optimistic
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and fundamentally believes that nature and materiality is a blessing
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and of the full manifestation of God rather than something
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: negative or evil or or debased. Right right?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I like that? What was that? When it comes to
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I guess in ok magic, like could you explain? I
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: guess maybe, like what would be the reason people would
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: even start looking into this as a form of magic?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Because I suppose maybe Wicka, you know, got a little
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: boring or simple and you needed a challenge, you know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you got tired of drawing down the moon and we're like,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you know what I need is lots of charts and
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: numbers that basically make no sense. That's what I need.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: If that's where you're coming from, jump into an Okian
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: magic in a way we go. But do you need it?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Now, once you've done an Okian magic, you
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: might notice that the energy is slightly different than other
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: forms of magic, if you're able to sense such things.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: So the sigilum damn it here, it's funny, it's this
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: is one of the sigil of God's truth or of
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the truth of the True God. Sigilum means sigil day
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: means God, and emmet is the Hebrew word for truth
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: spelt in you know, spelt out in Latin or English.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: This is the one symbol that we're told not to
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: ever look on outside of a state of holiness. This
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: is the one symbol that we never share. Obviously, we
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: live in a commercialized twenty first century in which you
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: can buy it on Etsy, So that's fine, that is
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: what it is. I would recommend to an Inchian practitioner
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that once you have your sigillo dam at the five
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of them, the little ones for under the table legs
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and the big one for the altar, I would recommend
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: that you keep them in a you know, carefully wrapped
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: up in a sacred place. And at that point I
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: would recommend maybe keeping that symbol as a sacred symbol.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, as we know, we're in a we're in
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a post sacred age that's perhaps trying to return to
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: secrality but struggling with it.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Right, when you make your own objects, it's so much
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: more meaningful. And I think this was supposed to be
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: carved into wax seals, so carving it into a wax
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: seal wouldn't be too hard. I mean, in terms of
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: preparations for an all time I think that's that's one
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: of the easier ones. You just take it sector by
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: sector and measure it out.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: It's even easier than that. Actually, we just we just
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: did a winter workshop with doctor Terry Burns and my
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: buddy who built most of our table and did our
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: wax tablets. He he did them up pretty quickly by
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: just putting a printed out image of them over top
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of the wax and using a ballpoint pen to trace
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: over the lines and that indense in the wax. And
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: the great thing is, of course the ballpoint pen also
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: traces the lines as you do them so you can
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: see what you've done and what you haven't done. And
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: he did remarkably detailed work that way, and much faster
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: than than looking back and forth to an image, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you know, engraving it within within piece of metal, which
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: is what I've done in the past, great pain and suffering.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, trace it over a piece of paper and
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: done in a jiff.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: What what is the is it bees wax? That it's
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: supposed to be made out of.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Bees wax? Very important that it's made of beeswax.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can you explain any of that?
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the in the in the Enochian system, the spirits
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: gave incredibly detailed instructions about what the tools and table
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and everything should be made of, what color fabrics like
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that go under the table, what goes over the table.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: So when you look at a fully table, all you
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: see is a white cube essentially with maybe a little
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: bit of green silk underneath the legs, but you see
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: white over top, and then you see a crystal. You
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: see nothing else, right, and that is something most people
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: aren't even aware of. But imagine how different that is
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: than the you know, most of the commercialized setups that
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you see what a different mentality that puts you in
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: when you think of a finished Anokian table not being
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: like any of these things, but just being draped over
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: with white cloth. The sigillum's covered. All you see is
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: as a clear crystal sitting on top of a white
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: draped cloth. And now the layers of cloth I think
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: are very symbolically and spiritually important because they represent different
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: layers of reality and energy and all of these sort
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: of things in the in the nature of what this
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: cube is. And doctor Burns has gone to great length
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to explore the geometry and spiritual significance of all of
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: these tools in the context of John D's greatest and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: most important work is Monus Hieroglyphica the Hieroglyphic Monad, which
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you can get from or a Boros Press, edited and
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: translated by doctor Burns and Nancy Turner, and they did
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a great job bringing that text into a state of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: actual clarity for the modern reader. So, yeah, the really
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: traditionalist in Nokian table. And I think I've said this
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: enough so people know, do it how you want, do
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: whatever you want, make notes, keep a diary, and let
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: us know how it goes. That's the official position. I'm
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: speaking for all of us on this. We don't mind whatever.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Do whatever you want, just take notes and let us know.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You know, if you do something daring and wild and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: creative and your life falls apart, just let us know
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: if you success and change the world again, let us know.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: We are pragmatists magicians for the most part. But when
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: you consider the actual tradition. I was trained in Golden
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: on Inokian and I love it. But when I actually
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: was recommended by the spirits last time I was in
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Prague to consider the roots and where it came from
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: and go back to the beginning, I started to see
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: something very different and something that for me as a Christian,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: was really appealing because Inokian magic is one of the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: few forms of magic that developed explicitly as a Christian
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: form of magic. D was trying to create with a
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Nokian what he saw as Jews having with Hebrew, as
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Muslims having with Arabic. Right he wanted he didn't. He
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: thought that Christians deserved to have a language that was
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: sacred just for them, and Latin, I suppose didn't cut
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it for D. So Inokian was his answer. Now, that's
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: why he called it adamic or edenic or celestial or angelical.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And the table's very beautiful. Yeah, so the tables made
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: of sweetwood. The sigilms are made of wax, waxes of
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the important magical tool. Of course, the wax ties into
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the b symbolism of the nascent Rosicrucianism and freemasonry that
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: was only in its very early stages during D's lifetime.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Freemasonry started in fourteen ninety the first something, the first lodge,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Lodge zero opened up in Scotland. So then, you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and if that was in the air already, D was
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: not occurring in a vacuum. D emerged out of a
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: culture of burgeoning secret societies and collaborations of mystics and magicians.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: The School of Night, for example, was active during his
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: time that he was a part of. I don't know
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: much about it. Trying to find out more so I
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: hope more scholars will dig into those things and.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: The School of Night.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Just recently I came across that, Yeah, it was you know,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you watch Olazabethan Magic Club.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Have you have you ever heard of Martinism has that
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: same sort of mystique al throughout the years? Yeah, well
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: they have that same sort of a lot of people
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: don't know that how influential they were, and a lot
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: of new religions in the West, like voodoo and Mormonism.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean it really emerged around the same
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: time as the Golden Dawn because through through the work
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of Papoos, right, and then had it split apart quite quickly,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: is from my understanding, due to again a lot of
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: political differences by the different founders and groups. But it
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: refers back Haales, back to Louis Claude, to sant Martin,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: but it just didn't become an actual organization till till
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. But yeah, I mean, you know, yeah,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of Martin available to people, and it's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: very popular. It's a bit more I think it's a
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: bit more Sacramento than the Golden Dawn and a bit
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: more explicitly religious, though again I don't want to speak
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: for Martinist as I'm not yet one. Well, a lot
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of different traditions.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: The book that was written by Sam Martin was about
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: the integration of the self with God. So it's like,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: what is this book? You're reading it and it seems
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: like it's from like the nineteen twenties sort of positive
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: thought movement. And this is from the seventeen seventies, and
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: so reading this on the integration of beings is really
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: kind of enlightening as to what really spurred on a
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: lot of the rosa Crucian stuff that came from the
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Caribbean up to Pennsylvania, you know, with the Beverly Hall
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: you know and amwork.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Well, Rosicrucianism started in sixteen fourteen right in Germany.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not in the Caribbean, but well Beverly Randolph came,
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: I brought it up to Pennsylvania. He was sort of
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: the influence on the on the other end of the Atlantic.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would consider that very you know, modern Rosicrucianism
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: very you know, completely separate from the Yeah, it's a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: different thing. I think chronologically, the you know, how it
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: was in the seventeenth century versus the nineteenth and twentieth century.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: There's no evidence of any direct connection between groups back
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: then and today, unless you consider Freemasonry to have sort
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: of carried on the traditions a little bit. It's probably
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: most evident Freemasonry being carried forward from the seventeenth century.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: But otherwise I think most of the nineteenth and twentieth
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: century groups that we have are know more or less
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: inspired by these other earlier movements, which I think again
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: was the purpose of these movements. I don't think they
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: necessarily represented the organized structures that today a lot of
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: people like to imagine they represent. I think they were
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: good ideas or inspirational ideas. Like Louis Claude Saint Martin,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: his teachings are very hermetic. You know, this idea of
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: meeting your angel and you know, accessing your news, your
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: our consciousness, which is a holy dimon, which is an angel,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: so that when you die, your soul gets through its
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: initiation carried up with the diamon, and you become like
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: a god, or even better than a god actually, according
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: to the Hermetica, you know, again very optimistic, not just
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: not just like not just any old god, better than
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: those gods. We become twice twice the regular towards sort
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of gods, star gods and dying gods. Yeah, that's a
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. And the whole process of reconsiling yourself
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to that higher consciousness is the great work, that's what
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: we call it, right and purifying the lesser dimonaise of
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: our souls. You know, Scientology took that straight out of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: that idea, straight out of the Hermitica Bigo.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Yep, fucking scientologists, we love you.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I apologize for that.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: There are more home scientologists than there are people that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: actually belong to the Church of Scientology, which I always
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: thought was really interesting because of exactly what Frederi arsity said.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: There are so many Hermetic principles magical. I mean, al
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Ron was clearly a magician of like at least intermediate
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: to high order. So just in his knowledge, I'm not
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: saying he was like a you know, a great worker
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: or anything, but I think he knew a lot of shit.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he put a lot into that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: So that's really interesting that a lot of people, and
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I think this is also true with Mormons, and to
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: like go back to have this comment about Martinism, while
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: there's a direct link between those two things as well.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: So there's so many people who may not even think
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: of themselves as hermesicist or even knowing magic in any capacity,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: but actually have a very magical outlook on reality.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Anyways, I'm sorry, I thought that was interesting.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Hubbard, you know, learned some stuff from Jack Parsons, right,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: He showed up in Jack Parson's life, ran off with
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: his wife, borrowed money, spent it on a boat, and
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: called himself a captain while doing copious and obscene amounts
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: of drugs all along the way, while creating a religion
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: that has prohibited his followers from having from using drugs.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: You know, this this complete. Absolutely. There's a great documentary
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: on YouTube that's up there on l Ron Hubbard and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Drugs and the occult. You can just google that on
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: YouTube and you'll find it. And it keeps getting taking down,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: but people keep putting back up. Chris Bennett, the author,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: put that together and he scot at interviews with Aron
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Hubbard's son in it, talking about all the crazy drugs
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: that he was doing and forcing his son to do
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and stuff. You know, it's it's sort of ironic. You know,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: fast forward to like, you know, modern day and Katie
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Holmes complaining that she wasn't allowed to get an epidural
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: during giving birth and stuff. Right, it's the hypocrisy is
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: shocking but not surprising, right.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Something I wanted to ask you not to drugs for me,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: not for the yeah, oh like how many of them
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: forbid sex? But the like to the screw and everybody there, right,
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, they always do
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: that shit. Whatever they tell you not to do, that's
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: exactly what the leader is doing. One thing I did
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: want to ask you not to put you on the spot,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: but you had mentioned before, like differences in like the
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: you Noochian magic, I guess you know, Golden Dorn and
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: differences from other ones. You said you noticed a difference.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: Could you explain any of that maybe?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Do you mean that just the technical differences of the
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: system the way it's used in Yeah, I mean they
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: you know, they change the colors of the tablets, they
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: changed them to primarily representing elements as opposed to direction.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: But again it's that's not those changes aren't the biggest
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: deal in the world, because you know, they come from
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: this great table, and the Great Table is a way
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: of laying out all of this stuff so that it
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: maps into our mind in a way that we understand.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: One thing I get from reading the diaries is one thing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: One of the things that makes it really me really
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: believe that in the authenticity of the spirits they're talking to,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: is the spirits frequently say things that that just doesn't
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: make sense that you would, you would you would come
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: up with on your own. Well, first of all, the
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: spirits forced D to do a lot of things he
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: didn't want to do. Like he when he first showed up,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: when D you went to go talk to the Holy
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Roman Emperor Rudolph the second after just arriving in town,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: D just wanted to play politics and maybe get it,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you know, support, financial support and all this. But the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: angels will clearly showing the in the in the diaries,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: they're like, no, you have to go in demand all
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: these things of him. Demand he changed his life, Demand
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: he do these things, otherwise it's the end of the world.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And D's like, please, no, I can't do that. I
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: can't do that. And the spirits are like, well, you
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: know it'll happen if you don't do what we say,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you know, so D. Sure enough, D he goes in
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and raves and rants like a madman, and Rudolph's like,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: who is this nut job? Let's get him out of here.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: And that was this, you know, that was a that
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: was a decision that D made because of the spirits,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And that's very interesting to me. Another time D set
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: when he's trying to sort of cut corners on the
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: initiatory process that the angels are laying out to begin
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: practicing in Oki and magic d He's like, well, okay,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: do I really have to write a prayer to each
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: one of these spirits prior to working with it to
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: initiate myself into the watchtowers? And the spirits are like, yes,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a short prayer from your heart, you know, from the good,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: your own good human mind will suffice as God inspires
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: you to do so. And he's like, well, he's such
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a systematizer. He really wants more detail. And he says, well,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: what would that look like? And the spirits are like,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: how would we know. We don't have a human mind.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: We don't even understand how you work, Like, don't ask us.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: We're part of God in a different way than you're
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: part of God. And so if you have to write
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: a prayer to God from your own soul and mind
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and inspiration, we wouldn't know what that looks like, just
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: like we can't you know. So this, this this textual
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: evidence of real alien consciousness that that is not placating
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: most of the time what the humans have as set
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: up as their own sense of expectation, morality, or cultural norms, right.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: The spirits just don't care. And this is part of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of magical trainees training magicians how to handle spirits,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: because it's not that they don't necessarily have your best
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: at heart. It's just they're not human. They don't know
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: what it's like to be human. They can't communicate to
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you in a way that is necessarily always going to
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: be beneficial for your flourishing in your life. They might
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: have other priorities or limited points of view, just like
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: we're limited in our points of view. Uh.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask also that is there if you
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: were to work with the tablet, is there any certain
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: particular rituals that you would do prior.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Using Yeah, well, I recommend starting with I recommend starting
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: with the first aspect of the system that was laid forth,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the Heptarchia Mystica, and I have a little intro course
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: that you guys can check out on that if you
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: go to Inokangrimoire dot com, and that just gets you
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: working with the grim Wark. It's an introduction to grim
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Warrick magic in general through the Hyptarchia Mystica, taking you
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: step by step ten days through your first operation and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the preparations for that, I think are very clearly laid
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: out in these diaries, and the spirits make it very
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: clear what you should do to begin that process. And
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: once you've gotten familiar with it, I think then you
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: can look towards the watchtowers and the Watchtower initiation. Now
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I'm speaking purely for those who are interested in taking
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: a traditional approach to the system, and in that approach,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you know, this is something a journey that would take
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: up many years of your life. You can you can,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you know, do what a lot of people have done
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: in the last several decades and just chop it up
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and do little bits and bobs and hope for the best.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Of course, that's just not what I'm interested in doing anymore.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: So approach it cautiously and also faithfully with the prayers
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and practices, so that you grow in closeness to God
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: through these spirits. You know, these archangels have laid forth
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: these matrices of spirits for us to better know the archangels.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: That's how I look at them. You know, we've been
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: doing the evocation of the archangels in the lesser ritual
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: of the Pentagram for many years. A lot of us
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: but how do we get to know these angels better,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and especially archangels. While in the Inochian system they've laid
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: forth a path that can be easily and clearly walked,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and the initiatory journey, the nineteen day initiation to initiate
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: yourself into the watchtower. It is a self initiation, like
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: most great initiations. It's a self initiation same similar to
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the Abramelan and you write out all these prayers. You
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: do these prayers daily in the morning at sunrise, just
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: like in Anenochian magic. It seems that when you have
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: this altar, set up the table, the holy table of practice,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: and it's all covered in white. My own research has
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: uncovered that it looks like you're meant to do it
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: in the sunshine. So all these people like myself included,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: who have been doing an okay magic by candlelight in dark,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: black walled temples for decades may have been missing out
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: on a major aspect of effectiveness by not doing these
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: rituals in the sunshine. So there's some some new information
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that I found in an unpublished manuscript with and then
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: confirmed its veracity with the help of Joseph Peterson and
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: some other scholars who were like, yep, yeah, you're not crazy.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: That looks like what you found, so you know who knows,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: try it out and find out. Okay, So answer the question.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, less there's anything else you left out. I don't know.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: You did mention that the watchtime, well, the watchtar rituals
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: a Golden Dawn ritual may by regardy. Oh it was
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: only in the Golden Dawn for like less than two years. Really,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: he only was huh, yeah, he didn't really, he wasn't
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: really interested in being trained or at all. He just
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: sort of showed up the bare minimum to get the
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: documents and see the initiation ceremonies, and despite it being
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a very highly functional and temple full of amazing people
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: that he could have learned from and worked with, he
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: didn't seem that interested. But he then did try to
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: become the secretary for the New Zealand Temple that he
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: had heard about, and of course when they heard about
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: his conduct in the England Temple that initiated him, they
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: were not interested at all in what he was having
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: to offer because it did sort of seem like he
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: was just on a manuscript finding mission. And the more
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: evidence that comes out about that. The more the clear
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: that seems to be the case. I mean, I have
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: a letter written by regarding himself that says, the reason
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I lost all my stuff and had this I think
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: it was a burning of his or something. He says
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: in his own hand, right, in his own right words,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: that he believes it happened because he tole the Golden
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Dawn material and published it. I think he basically says
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: that himself. Now, we're lucky he did. Of course, a
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: lot of us wouldn't have gotten into this path if
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for him. So, you know, no shade on
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: regarding He was a young man doing what he thought
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: was right, and in his own words, he paid the
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: price for it. So maybe that's that's all that needs
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to be said. You know, like he's a he came
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: full circle in his own life, and I'm really grateful
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: for what he did because we have this wonderful, magical ecosystem.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: We have the CISOs. I just got this the ciso's
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: new book the other day, very excited. There's already some
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: very big aha moments from some of their observations from
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: their decades of practice. It doesn't matter that every single
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: tradition necessarily comes about in the same way, right, you know,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: there's always going to be especially in the occult iconoclass
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: movement and breakaways that might start out in a complicated manner.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: The order I come out of has plenty of controversies.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: All groups in the spiritual and human worlds that I've
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: experienced have lots of issues. I mean, I went to
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the anglic worked for the Anglican Church for a while
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: and hoping that things would be saner there than in
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the occult world. I was wrong.
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: So I was wanting to bring up you know, when
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: you go back into the histories as far as you know,
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: you hear these tales of Edward Kelly, like hauling trunks
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: out of you know, countries he'd been exiled from, and
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: his nose was shaved off and his ears were shaved off.
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: And in one Tycho Bra book I was reading, they
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: talked in the court of Rudolph. They talked about the
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: fact that Tycho Bra would constantly give Edward Kelly shit
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: about his nose being chopped off, because Tycho Brah had
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: his nose chopped off as well and wore an artificial
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: nose to.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Cover it up.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: But what I was kind of getting at is as
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: these two merge and come together. You get into this
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: this stone, this mirror stone that D had that was
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: what was it an Aztec or Mayan stone that he
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: wore on his foot that Queen Elizabeth ended up sending
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: to the court of Rudolph, and he kind of followed it.
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: But you know you had said earlier, you had said
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: something about scrying. How much do scrying tie into this
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: as far as D with the black mirror and the
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: scrying aspects of the Enochian philosophy.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those are I'm really glad you brought all of
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: that up. So definitely Kelly had his nose, He had
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: his ears. There's no evidence otherwise. If Tayke o'briy lost
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: his nose, that's news to me. Oh yeah, maybe he
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be the only only knows this guy,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: so he started pretending Kelly had as well. There'd be
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: evidence if there'd be actual evidence for that if that
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: were the case. And you know a lot of those
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: when I went on when I just went on the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: the Edward Kelly tour in Prague, the very commercial one.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: They actually know a lot about Kelly and Prague because
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: they have all these records in Latin and check that.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: You know, we just don't have all these, you know,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: centuries of research. Often, you know a lot of the time,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: often it was at tax on Kelly. But you can
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: still find out a lot of a truth for truth
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: from an attack on someone, right, Because if someone's going
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: to attack someone and they have bad info, like damaging
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: info about you, you'd think they would release that info.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't hide it. So if all these people wanted
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: to just credit Kelly and he had no know they
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: probably would have said so. But they don't. Yeah, but
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: that's just one one thing. The other thing you brought up,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: which is even more interesting because Kelly's reputation, both Dan
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Kelly like they had to be attacked, They had to
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: be discredited for years. I mean, Casaubon published D's in
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Okian material to discredit him, to make him look like
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: an Anabaptist who was just believing whatever came into his
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: own head and as a result, kicked off a revolution
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: in an Okean magic. I mean, Rudd, Cotton, all those
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: guys used that published book to then practice just like
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the publication of Scott's discovery of witchcraft was
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: meant to condemn witchcraft. And you know, this is how
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: you know it's bad, and this is how you know
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: it's witchcraft, and this is how it works. Step one,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: step two, step three, step four. Don't do it, but
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: here's how you would. Right, that's where you get the
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: origin of tracing pentagrams in the air is the Scott's
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: discovery of witchcraft. So yeah, that golden non practice goes
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: back a long way. As far as the black scrying
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: mirror goes, yeah, that had nothing to do with d
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: That just got mixed up by the British Library and
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: accidentally put in this display with his stuff. But he
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: never did any scrying with the black mirror. He never
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: owned that mirror. Neither did Kelly. They probably never even
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: saw it. Maybe they did, but my understanding is it
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: was put in that display by accident. Also, the scrining
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: crystal that's in that display at the British Library, I
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: heard the real one got taken by a rich British
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: aristocrat set for you know, into their private collections years
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: ago and just got replaced with a fake. I hear
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: that's the case with a lot of stuff at the
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: British Library. And if it's not true. Well it's hard
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: to prove unfortunately, so we'll never really know. But the
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: reason they practiced scrying and they used scrying as their
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: main method of magic, is because they were highly influenced
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: by Trithemius. And there's this synonymous Trithemian method of drawing
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: spirits into crystals that we have the manuscripts for and
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: that a lot of us still base our scrying practices upon.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: So it's a old technique that has been around for
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: a long time. You know, I use a crystal ball,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: but mainly I work with a copper bowl that I
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: hand hand hammered out back in the mid nineties in
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: workshop class, and put water in that puts, you know,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: oils for sympathy to the forces I'm working with. And
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: then sometimes I'll put a crystal ball in there as well.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: And it's not for staring at. It's not for looking
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: at or focusing on. It's for creating a reservoir of energy.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: What does Bardon call it? The you know, the fluid
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: condenser with the metal and the crystal for the spirit
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: to sort of anchor two so that I can have
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: longer and clearer conversations with it. I even use that
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: when I'm doing divination or taroor readings for people. If
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: I if I'm doing tarror readings for a lot of people,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I might just create that little mini altar so that
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the spirits who are helping me with the interpretations and
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: information have a nice little home to be in while
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: we work. Yeah, maintain the contact longer.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I've gotten great results from Ainochio Magic doing it in
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: simplified forms against Scott Stenwick has a lot of good
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: books on that that I've used a lot, and you
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: can get great results with even just printing out the
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: sigitl from a piece of from a computer printer, standing
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: on it and doing the ritual. You can have full
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: on successful effects doing that. But I've found it's very
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: hard to have prolonged scrying sessions doing things that way.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: But when I'm sitting in a temple space, I have
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: the full table set up, done all the preparations. That's
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: when it's easy for me to have long drawn out
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: communications of tremendously insightful, often prophetic information go on for
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: hours and hours and hours. Thank you, I love you too,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: made just in the media.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Cool dude.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So that's an interesting point so the experience around
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: doing an Okian magic hinges on a sort of a
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: state of noses.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Would you say, well, I mean state of noses. When
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I hear state of noses, I hear a state of knowledge,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: special knowledge. Maybe what do you mean by nosis?
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: Well, the Greeks would sort of refer to kind of
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: like this altered state of perception, being able to channel,
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: having that ability in sort of a different frame of consciousness,
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: and they would call that sort of like a gnostic state.
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: So I figured, you know, has something to do with
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: the process of doing an Achaian magic.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, m hm, Well do you want me to give
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: you a theoretical and historical traditional answer or an answer
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: from personal experience?
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Let me I don't.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Buckle up. So there's a there's a couple. So traditionally
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: there's a scrier, and then there's the conjurer. So d
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: would be the conjuror he would do some scrying himself
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: sometimes but mainly Kelly would be the scrier. So it's
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: assumed Kelly went into some sort of altered state to
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: do this scring.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: You know, whether P. D.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Newman's theory is correct that he was They were burning
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: suffusing the space with d M. Tuh. Let's put that
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: to the side for this discussion, because you know, the
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: evidence is extremely strong but generally dismissed by most people
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: for obvious reasons because they're boring. People are boring, they
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: won't even consider the possibility. It's still it's still frustrat
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: but the evidence sort of speaks for itself. I mean,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: if Melosine and Cagliostro were using DMT and their Masonic
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: ceremonies for a fact and calling it the Philosopher's Stone,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: then there's a good chance that what Kylie called the
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Philosopher's Stone was the same thing. Yeah, but again, there's
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: a there's a book on that that you can read
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: by P. D. Newman, Angels and Vermilion. So let's put
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: aside the possibility that they were suffumigating their room with
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: d MT. And there's lots of good reasons to debate that,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: because they would do their their scrying of these spirits
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: up in the study in their in their ritual room
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: during the day, like, not at night. They were doing
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: this during the day, which lines up with the whole
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Sunshine possible prescription. And you know, because in their diary
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: entries they're getting interrupted by their kids. They're getting interrupted
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: by their wives, by noblemen showing up at Mortlake, you know,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: and calling them down, and they have to interrupt their
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: session and run on down. So hard to go into
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: much of an altered state of consciousness if you're constantly
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: having to go see to things in the household, or
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: you know, that sort of daily obligation aspect of it. Again,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: they did this so much, and over so many years.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: They probably did it in a wide variety of ways.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: They probably did it in more ways than we could
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: we could even realize, and they may have hidden some
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: of their main methods if they were in fact, you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: burning certain substances. And there's suspiciously no mention in any
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: of the Inochian diaries, of these diaries of any suffumigation
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: or any preparations, which is why my discovery of the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: preparations for an Nokia Con twenty twenty four was such
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: a big deal. And it's also why PD Newman's work
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: on what the fumigations might have been. Why would they
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: burning incense or preparing themselves with fasting, unless it was
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: maybe because they were hiding something secret. For a long time,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: we just assumed that they didn't burn in sense, they
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: didn't prepare themselves ritually. But that didn't really make sense
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: given D was so influenced by grimoires like the Heptameron,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: which have six months preparation. You know, you're giving alms
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: every day, you're fasting like you know, Abramellen style preparation work.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So if D was influenced by texts like that, by
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: grimoires like the Heptameron, and even the Arbitel has some
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: pretty you know, some pretty clear preparations working in the
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: morning and that sort of thing. Living a holy life,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: which D definitely considered to be crucially important, was to
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: lose as sacred a life as possible, as pious life
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: as possible. Both D and Kelly were. You got to
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: remember that these were extremely pious met Kelly got deep
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: into Roman Catholicism when they were on the continent. And
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: it's hard for modern modern minds, I think, to understand
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: that kind of faith and piety. So that alone itself,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: he might say, is an altered state of consciousness or
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a state of gnosis personally in modern practice and in
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: my experience, if I'm being a scrier, do I go
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: into an altered state to receive clearer communications, you betcha.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: But I really like some of the advice given by
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: previous occult experts like Adleen Nichols, who has since turned
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: moved on to focusing on other grimoires like the SSM
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: and older medieval stuff. But when he did Inokian stuff,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you know, he was telling me, like I was asking
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: him about the same question, how do you do it?
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, how do you do it? He's like, well,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: he lets the monkey mind run free. He doesn't want
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: to be in an altered state. He loves the rooms
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: on in the place because if he sees phenomena, he
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: wants to see them clearly. If the spirits are actually
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: going to speak to them him, he wants to know
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: it's the spirit speaking to him and not just his
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: own imagination. And I think that's not a horrible method
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: to apply when doing some of this work. I think, yeah,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: it's helpful to put yourself into an altered state to
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: receive these communications more clearly. But if you're especially if
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: you're someone who you know wants to be certain of
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the profundity and the veracity of what you're experiencing, then yeah,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: you can put a bit more onus on the spirit
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: to actually demonstrate and speak louder if you like, and
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: be more clear in its communication if it's going to
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: be received. So there is sort of a spectrum of
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: approaches that you could take. And you know, any magician's
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: going to say, well, don't just pick one or don't
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: just assume one's right and one's wrong. Try it all
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: over many years and let us know.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: I think, exs up, what jen you got any questions with?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I am just sort of absorbing everything that is
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: being said.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Guess my question for Afraid or RC would be, is
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: there a way to sort of detechnologize. I know this
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: is controversial maybe, but like is there a way to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: sort of bring the Enochian system into like a more
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: chaos magic framework or a more like twenty twenty five
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Like we're not going to we don't necessarily need all
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: this magical ritual technology.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: We can like sort of.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Utilize elements pieces here and there, maybe keywords, key pieces,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: key language components and sort of. It doesn't have to
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: be like a reconstitution, but like just a sort of
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: a more pragmatic or more accessible way for people.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's sort of what I was trying
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: to say earlier on was that's what we've been doing
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: for the last thirty years, and it's only with in
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: the very reagon. It's like, you know, well, one of
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: the reasons I started in Okia Khan and the Arcane
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Research Society back in twenty nineteen and with a series
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: of lectures over in Prague at Kelly's Tower, including doing
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: an Okian work up at the Tarret turret, the pair
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: of the tower itself and talking to the spirits there
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: doing an ok magic. The reason I start all this
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: is because what you're describing is, in my opinion, what's
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the only thing that's been going on in an Okean
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: magic is the breaking a part of the system into tiny,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: tiny little pieces that can be then used in chaos
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: magick and all that sort of stuff. I mean, my
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: you know, my friend Jason Louver, honored to be able
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: to say call him that. At this point in my life,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: it's pretty wild. He's he's done a tremendous study in
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: his book.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: O Tripped Out No when it comes.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: Back well, and what I find interesting in regard to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: that that whole idea is that when they got in
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: contact with these entities. The entities told them the methods
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: by which they needed to be able to set up
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: and communicate and the necessary you know, and and this
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: is what one hundred years before we start to see
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: the sigil magic with lesser keys of Solomon.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: So I think I think he's coming back on.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I put it back on, bringing it back on now
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: you didn't have his That's a good point with though, Robbie. Well,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: you just said, like to bring it into the technological
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: because that's obviously what people have been trying to do, right,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It's like to imprint the and okay sort of framework
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: onto like technology, like onto our phones and onto and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: like you know, like to as a device interfaces, because
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: that's all I think.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to speak for an okay magic because
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: so I don't know anything about it. But I think
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: that maybe that's part of a big part of it,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: is like the interface with.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Whatever it is.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not a I don't right, I think all
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: of you.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Know, I don't totally believe in spirits, but I'm not negating.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: Them either, right.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: I think it's easier than ever to actually access making
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: this stuff, you know, the furniture, right, like the maker Revolution,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: you can just three D print a lot of a
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: lot of stuff. You could print this stuff out, put
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: it on the table. Like if you compare that to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: what D. A. Kelly were working with, they were making
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: absolutely everything by hand, and just an incredible amount of
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: labor going into each and every piece of furniture of
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: this of this whole thing as they're doing these different channelings.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: So I imagine it was kind of exhausting.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: Well, he definitely had craftsmen make a lot of the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: things for him, that's definitely the case. And you know
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of Greek craftsmen today, and you can
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: make the table. One of my students just found a
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: perfectly sized table on American Amazon. It was like two
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: hundred bucks, painted it up in one evening, traditionally styled gorgeous,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: absolutely gorgeous, even better than the one me and my
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: friend made. But my friend he made the table from
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: scratch out of Canadian cedar, and that that, of course
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: is a bit more work and takes a workshop to
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: do that. But making the tools trictionly as a magician
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: yourself is important. So doing as much as you can,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: you know, if you can make something yourself. It's good
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: to make it yourself. It will have more power for you.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: And the spirits are aware of what energy you put
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: into things. They're aware of the investment you make. And
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: if you don't believe in spirits, well, let's that's even
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: it's even more compelling because let's put it this way,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: your own mind knows where you're cutting corners, right where
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: you're putting in the effort. I mean, when we don't
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: put in the enough effort, we get kept up at
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: night sometimes by our conscience. We don't even behave in
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: a certain way. What weird creatures are we that based
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: on how we behave in the world, we might not
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: be able to sleep because we feel bad at how
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: we behaved. What's that you don't hear about that from
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: many other species? I think, at least not vocalized, because
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: they can't vocalize, not like we can. So we're weird creatures.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: We're weird beings. I mean, the Hermetica calls us we're
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: double gods. We're gods when we ascend and die and
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: become like the star gods or angels, but we're also
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: dying gods. That's what a beautiful phrase used in the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Hermetica for human beings, we're dying gods who become star gods,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: or even better than star gods, because first we were
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: dying gods, so we're two times gods. And it is
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: a very optionistic view of human nature. But you know,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: if you have to pick an outlook in the world,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: it's not the worst thing to pick an optimistic one,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: so you know, investing time and energy into your tools,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: if you even just take a purely psychological approach to magic,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: which is probably not a horrible way to approach magic
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: until you actually see indisputable evidence of a spirit or
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: what you might call a spirit, right, Like, it's hard
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: to fault someone for not believing in little green men
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: if they haven't seen one, you know what I mean. Like,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: whereas if once you see one, it's like, yeah, okay,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: now I have no choice. I have sort of got
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: to believe in this because I've seen this thing spirit
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: say something I believed in only because I experienced them
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: and saw them at a young age. And once you do,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: you're sort of you're sort of screwed. You got to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: spend the rest of your life finding out what the
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: fuck these things are and otherwise you know or not
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: or not. Sorry for swearing. I don't want to offend
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: any that's an insight.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Beg you.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some backstory to.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: All this, but we can't well that funny though he
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: was there anything.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: So but let me finish jin. I think there's more
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: to your question, if you don't mind me rambling on
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: for another minute, because I really do. I have a
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: lot of I have a lot of sympathy for different
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: points of view and different approaches to magic. Again, as
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: a someone who's been teaching since the nineties, I've seen
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: people make a lot of great changes in their life
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: and you know, fulfill find fulfillment in their life through
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: different approaches to magic. So I'm especially as someone who
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: considers himself a traditionalist as a matter of taste and preference,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: very I'm too experienced to think that there is only
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: one way or that there are best ways. There is
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: not necessarily even best practices other than gets you closer
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: to God, that which gives you greater access to higher consciousness. So,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: you know, a great way for someone to start approaching
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: a Nokia magic in a piecemeal way that's still traditional
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: or still could lead to a traditional approach. Look at
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: the letters, draw them, ode on white cards, start contemplating them,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: understand them, study them, meditate on them. See what they
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: open up, what hyper pathways of consciousness they open up
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: in your head. If you're into entheogens, stare at them
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: and do some anthiogens. Maybe you just want to do
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: a little weed or you know, fill the room up
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: with d MT if you want to get crazy and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: see what that doorway opens up for you. I mean,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that's a way of breaking it apart technologically speaking, and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: applying it to different avenues. But let that application perhaps
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: come from God or that, that is to say, the
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: letter or spirit itself. Abscrying a symbol is generally in
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: magic considered the best place to always start, you know,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Contemplate it, meditate on it. Eventually, try and communicate through it.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: And if all those fiels, you know, you turn it
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: into a doorway and see where it takes you.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: So that works for you. Maybe it's not your path, right,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: you know, don't bang your head against a wall when
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: something's not working for you. You know, I tried to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: be a jogger for years. My ankles just wouldn't take it. So,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: you know, wait, ye, No.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate that.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: I think that was exactly like that was a perfect
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: sort of response to my question and it was exactly
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: what I was asking. I think letter mysticism is so important.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: That is something I'm doing right now with Hebrew kabbala.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: And it's a lot easier than it sounds, because it
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: was very intimidating to me at first, because I obviously
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: I have a little bit of soundscript. I speak Chinese,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: but you know, like like the Hebrew is like totally
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: foreign to me. So I agree that is I mean,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know from a Nochen perspective, but letter magic
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: should work for pretty much everyone. And like meditating on
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: the conceptual even just the logo graphic quality of it,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: I think is very powerful. And I love what you
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: said about it just opening a cognitive gateway because I
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: think that's what the logos at its core is about.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: So thank you.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you're welcome, And you might really like
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Darlene's book Ophanic Revelations. It's an Anochian book with a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: very colorful title, the cover, page cover. You can get
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: a think on Amazon, and doctor Burns was involved in that.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: It's from her community of practitioners and Darlene who is
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: the partner of Vincent Bridges. I hope I'm not getting
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: that wrong. She does an analysis of the letters in that,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: charting them like a font on a graph and shows
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: different understanding them, which is basing them on what's it called?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Dem oh, doctor Bernson, kill me if I forget the word.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: So the letters, instead of being flat, are looked at
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: as cones, like little wormholes, going different directions and turning
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: different ways. So check out Ophanic Revelation for more on that.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: I did a very mediocre job at explaining it just now,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: but if you get where I'm going with that, then
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: you'll see, uh yeah, so there's a yeah looking at
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: the letters as cones or as tunnels. To me, it
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: was shocking to see that in a delightful way because
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: the one of the first experiences I had on working
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: with Athers was well, I always tend to be in
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: when I do scrowing or even traveling in the spirit vision,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: I don't usually go through tunnels. I usually enter into
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: what I would describe as vistas or like large dark
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: spaces in which you know, the thing I call might
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: show up in some form or another. And after testing it.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: I want to interact with it to then expand the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: horizon and in Tatua work in the golden dawn. We
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: do this by entering the tatua first, and then we
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: vibrate the Hebrew names, and then we vibrate Inokian names, right,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: so to create parameters in the landscape that is invoked
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: and evoked. But with Inokian athers, I have tended to
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: go down these tunnels, these tubes like in like you
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: see in graphics in a movie or in the intro
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: to my podcast. I tried to make it look like
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: that because that is the experience of the Innokian ethers.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: So when I saw the letters done is as vortexes
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: and cones, I was very surprised because I was like, yes,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: that is what I experienced, having never thought of this
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: ever before. And the letters themselves are to me, they're
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you know, they're less impressive than I would expect from
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: an angelic language because they're so you know, Phoenician in
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: their in their style, a lot of them look like English.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: But obviously, again, spirits communicate to us in ways that
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: we can understand. Otherwise we don't understand them and we
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: don't know what they're saying, and there's no notes to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: be made in our diary, but they do communicate things
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: in a way that we can grasp onto. And these
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: symbols are clearly ones that were familiar to Dan Kelly
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: in a variety of ways. You got the letter omega,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: You've got like an h that's backwards, You've got all
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: kinds of things. And if you look at some of
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: the other magical languages they were familiar with, they're extremely similar,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: similar to one in particular. So clearly the angels, you know,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: they give us, they engage with our fantasia through the
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: familiar concepts that we already have in our head. And
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: that's that's the map we have for that terrain. But
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: the train is always people like to think, like one
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: guy asked me out. One friend asked me, said, he said,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: so is it? So is magic is the map and
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: the nocchian is system is the terrain. I'm like, no, No.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: The whole idea behind this concept of map in terrain
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: or territory is always that the terrain is unknowable. It's
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: always ultimately unknowable, right, I Mean, it wasn't just Saint
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Paul that said that it's it's our own scientists in
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: modern times who are like, look, we're never gonna get
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: all of reality. As one black black matter or dark
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: matter physicist said to me sitting in the Granny Rainbow's
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: trailer because it's her daughter. She she she just held
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: her hand. She's like, less than five percent. Less than
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: five percent, that's all you'll ever experience of reality at
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: the most. It's like, okay, yeah, so we all know
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: we're in this boat together, and we think this boat
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: is the universe, but it turns out we are maybe
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: all just on the head of a pin. Right, Yeah,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: pretty cool letters though, I still and when yeah, as
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: soon as you think of like think of those wide
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: endings and those narrow points as like entrances and exits,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, oh baby, now now we're now we're talking like.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: We're going to go with this, but we're just perspective.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: All of these things could be seen from multiple perspectives,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: Like you might be looking at an object on its
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: side or on its you know, the foot or something, right,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: So all of these things, yeah, have an added layer
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: of context that's not fully realized.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: So you got to listen to doctor Burns's fifty hour
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: YouTube course on the Monas Hieroglyphica. You just gotta do it.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: It's an initiation on its own, and I promise you
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: you might even go up a standard deviation if you
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: work hard at understanding what she's talking about. Because d
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: was a genius. He was a genius, possibly the greatest
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: mind of his era or of many eras. There's no
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: there's no two ways about that. The guys who built
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Stonehenge were all probably super geniuses. They just didn't have
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: the same tools that we have today, right, So we
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: had these great minds, and he got to the edge
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: of human knowledge and said, well, what's left. I can't
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: find any more books that I don't have. I guess
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I'll start talking to angels and spirits and see if
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: they can point me in a direction that will further
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: my knowledge and bring me closer to God, which is
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a noble task, and he took it
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: very seriously, and in his Monus Hieroglyphica, which is his
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: true masterpiece, and which the Inochian system is much more
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: intimately involved in than I ever thought. Until doctor Burns's
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: fabulous work, everything is thought of in terms of sacred geometry,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: in terms of you know that the the Anochian table
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: is not a cube of white, it's actually a hypercube
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: or a tesser act. Right, And doctor Burns, she takes
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you through all that in a way that I could
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: never do that. Yeah, these symbols, like the whole Golden
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: down grade structure is based on this schema according to
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: her analysis. And the Golden Dawn members certainly knew this
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: text very well. Wescott Mathers were definitely familiar with this text,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: as were the authors of the Rosicrucian uh Manifestos. This
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: symbol was put on the very front cover of the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Chemical Wedding, if I recall correct, right, So D's system
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: is the and Inokian is the is the underlying I mean,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: it's so amazing, like it might have actually gotten forgotten
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: about if if Casaubon hadn't tried to disparage d As
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: reputation and and make him look like a fool by
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: publishing the True and Faithful Relation. So it's it's pretty
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: funny how how the Spirits managed to get their work
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: into the public's attention by any means necessary, including the
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: study of Dan Kelly.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: Once you start reading it, it's very infectious. Like once
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: you start reading their accounts and going through all of
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: these different things, it's like, I gotta know what's gonna
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: happen next, Like all of this stuff is building on itself,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: and you're like, this is really riveting. You know, a
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: lot of that stuff was kind of exciting, you know.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a rollicking good time their whole life
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: story and adventure, especially once you get past the surface
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: information that tries to reduce it all to just you know,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, they swapped wives one night. It's like, no,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: they didn't. What are you talking about. They didn't swap
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: wives one night. They swapped wives lots of nights, right.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Do you know how to look at De's diary and
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: see what little tiny marking he put to indicate the
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: nights he got laid? No, you don't, But once you do,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: the story opens up and expands even more. And when
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: you find out about the wife's swapping as well, as
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: much as maybe De's wife was not pleased with it,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: how faithful they were to these spirits to do what
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: they were told to do. Even Dee didn't want to
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: go chew out Rudolph the Holy Roman Emperor upon first
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: meeting him, but he did, you know, because the spirit
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: said so. The wife maybe didn't want to sleep with Kelly,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: but she did because they said so. And even doctor
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Sledge has brought up like, we don't know the full
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: story there, because there's this thing they were part of,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: possibly called the Family of Love. Now if that sounds
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: like elizabethan hippie polyamory kind of movement, then you'd probably
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: be right. So who knows what they actually lived their lives? Like, right,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't have put all of that in writing because
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you wouldn't want to get judged too partially
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: by the you know, religion was a bit more in
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: charge in those days, so I had to kept your
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: those matters more close to the vest. So again, the
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: more you go past the surface story of these guys'
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: lives and their family's lives and the remarkable work even
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: their kids did. I mean, they both produced some remarkable children.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Arthur d the daughter who is a poet, you know.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: And Kelly, you know, didn't die in prison. He went
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: up back with his family, died a few years later
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: with his family, you know, living in Czech you know,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: in Bavaria.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so I don't think it would be an
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: exaggeration to say that John D's mathematics created the British Empire.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: Like his ideas of how to chart these oceans gave
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: them an advantage over everybody else. I mean that was
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: that was huge.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, they he tried to give them advice,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: they tended to not pay attention to his lessons on
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: how to navigate with the maps. You know, there's these
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: great instances and they're like, yeah, he told us what
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: to do, but we're just gonna go this direction and
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: next thing, you know, they're like fighting Eskimos, barely back alive.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: But in the harmonics Hieroglyphica itself, there's this one poor
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: part that's that I love where D says, and forgive
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: me your highness or your majesty for revealing what might
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: be a great secret in this diagram, But it must
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: be said for the sake of the integrity of this
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: theory and what he's actually revealing. There's hours of lecture
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: doctor Burns does on parabolas and ellipses. I never thought
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: I would spend so many hours in my life studying
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: those since high school, but I did. And what he's
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: actually showing in this diagram at this one part is
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: he's showing the difference between the I think it's the
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: parabola that would be used that people use that acts
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: that doesn't hit another ship with a cannibal and he
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: shows how to correct it so that you can use
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: the correct trajectory to accurately predict how a canniball will
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: hit a ship. Nice.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: One thing, sorry, One thing I wanted to follow up
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: with freder Arci is that what you said about their
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: kind of unconventional lifestyle. Now, my question is not directly
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: about that, Like I don't really care personally, I don't
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't affect me at all, Like however they arrange themselves,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: like whatever, magicians are weird people.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: It is what it is.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: But do you think that sometimes those like elements are
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: included in certain stories about not just them, but about
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: like all magicians in a way to sort of as
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: fetters or blinds or even just like misdirections, as ways
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: to take people sort of like outside of the context
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: in which they were the outside of the actual work
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: that they were doing. Like it's like a distraction almost.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, I think that. I mean, obviously,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to discredit someone, you'll do whatever you'll say,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: whatever true and untrue thing necessary. I mean. And D's
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: an easy target because he is a you know, he
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: was a Catholic priest. And then during his lifetime he
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: went from being the son of a wealthy, successful man
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: in jail with his dad and older brother executed, and
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: him being about to be executed himself. Right, there's this
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: great scene. He's in jail with this other guy who's
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: a Copernican, also on the you know, going to be
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: on the chalking block. He goes in to get tested
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: or questioned by the bloody Baron so called for obvious reasons.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: And next thing, you know, he the Copernican gets called
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: in and the bloody Baron calls D out, now dressed
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: as a priest again to question the Copernican and interrogate him.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: So D must have given quite the speech to this baron,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: to this bishop, sorry, the bloody bishop, to convince him
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: to not only not execute him, but to bring him
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: on as one of his fellow inquisitors. You know. So
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: saved his own neck just barely there. And then of course,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: you know, used his position of power to actually be
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: a bit more helpful. Then than to the other people
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: who were on the up for inquisition, shall we say,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because of that ignomy in D's life, he
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: never was going to receive any official status at court,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: and never received any official position from the Queen. He
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: struggled his whole life, having to beg, borrow and almost
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: steal perhaps to just survive and to fund his endeavors.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: And he did such great work people didn't mind supporting him, Like,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: you know, this is the kind of guy who, by
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: modern standards, could ask his rich noble friends for a
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: couple hundred grand to buy some cool new books so
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: he could teach them how to not crash through their
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: ships or how to fire a cannon ball better. You know.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: So this is a useful guy.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: If I told you I could, like tan x your
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: business in three weeks, just give me two million, you'd
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, well I get a refund if I
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: feel cool. All right, I'll back you up.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: D was that kind of guy, it seems, you know,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: trying to spy for you. Was the spy for the queen.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, it's unfortunately the double oh seven thing
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't true. But but he definitely was a spy and
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: you know, doctor Burns thinks Shakespeare was working with him,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: you know, was was was Garland was known as Garland
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: when he was in Prague. And oh, that whole side
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: of the story is completely fascinating him. It's a whole
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: other element, right, It's just a whole other side. That's
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: the whole spy of the Apocalypsis Historia YouTube channel, it's
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: up and coming channel on YouTube that's really going all
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: in doing four or five hour live streams, diving into
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare and Sydney and all of these other characters from
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: that time period. They'd be some fun guys to have
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: on if you want to go into the Shakespeare stuff.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 4: Oh man, we've got so deep on the Virginia side
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: of the Shakespeare sort of conspiracy. There's a whole other
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: element that's going on over here, having to do with Rockefeller,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: of all people. So Rockefeller.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Damn, we don't live
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: in boring times.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: No, No, not at all at all. No, there was
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: there anything else anybody wanted to ask.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 5: Well, I was going to say, if I remember, right
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 5: at the towards the end, when he finally went back
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: to his estate, hadn't it been looted and a bunch
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: of the books been burned, and kind of the people
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 5: had turned against him.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his own family members like looted his library and
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: sold him off for product like the sky got betrayed
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: by everybody. Everybody. Yeah, yeah, you know, and then the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: queen could have helped him out more and given him
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: some money or a place and just strung him along.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: And you know, he went up to Manchester and all
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: his family died of illness, and then he died. And yeah,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: very but of course life was Life was rougher back then,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: and illness did happen, and poverty was a harsh reality
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: of existence for sure, especially if you're following what you
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: would see as your true will versus your own self interest.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you, true, I had too quick follow It's okay, oh,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: sorry about that problem. Apologies, fire away, fire away, Oh,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: I wanted to ask about the money situation. So this
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: has come up before when we've discussed certain medieval magicians.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: It's like their poverty. And I'm not saying that there
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: was like totally just like desolation poverty. Obviously, this is
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: like various, like big money and big losses both at.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: The same time.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: So I think is there a way to sort of
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: use an Okay, I'm not saying use it for material purposes,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: but is there a pragmatic way maybe to use an
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: oak and magic or wealth drawing or jubyterarian works, et cetera,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: et cetera. So that's a question A and then question
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: B or perhaps is observation. But I like that you
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: described the sort of the spaces that you see during
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: letter misticism as vistas, because this is something that we
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: just talked about, is like the spaces where we arise
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: in consciousness like some people would positive like Kenneth Ground
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: would say, we live in the tunnels of set. So
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: those are like big cavernous empty spaces, right, So it
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: is similar. There are similar kinds of ideas of like
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: where does the word fundamentally arise? Well, fundamentally it arises
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: in your own mind, but there are different ways to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: get there there. So I don't know if that was
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: a question, but you're welcome to respond to either one
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: as you see, will as you will.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you might need to rephrase the second one after
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: I answer the first. So the first when I did
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: an okan ether work with Lawn Miloticquet when he was
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: in town. It was just out of college and and
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: brother Mason Troy put that on. Thank you Troy for
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: all the events you put on over the years. And
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: getting to work with Lawn was a was an a
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: fun experience because because he had no qualms about just
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: giving everyone the tools they needed to do an Okian
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: magic in a room full of strangers with each other
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: and and make it work. And so I thought I
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: would do something I had actually never done before. And
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: I used that opportunity for my own goal to be
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: money magic, because I figured that was something that was
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: extremely verifiable, right. So, and I and I did have
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: a valid need because I was in the I was
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: sleeping on my publisher's sofa at the time and definitely
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: needed to get my own place. And uh, you know, yeah,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: so I needed a little help there, and so I I, uh,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: I did manage for an exact amount of money. The
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: next day, woke up and it was in my account.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: I'm a source that in a million years, I would
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: never have expected it to come from, though I had
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: put out the word in general that yeah, like I
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: had gone through I'd been docksed, I'd had my home invaded,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: had to leave that home slept on my publisher sofa
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: for a few months, and then it got a place
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: and so the very next day that money was there.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: And so that was a an okean money magic just
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: done by scrying the eighth or traveling in the ether
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: of texts. And what I did there, of course, was
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: an operation for money in the Kingdom of the Nomes.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, that was just my own the own
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: my own inner map work and spirit work for making
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: that happen. But that was the context. So that was
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: a simple way that I did it the first time.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: And since that was the first time my life I
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: had ever even done magic for money, since I've always
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: been sort of a you know, working class kid, paper
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: paper route since I was ten years old. You know,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: you don't, you don't. People don't do that anymore. But
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: that's how I made my money is doing a little
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: odd job and stuff as a kid, and that was
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: it never was a magical thing for me. But I'm
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: definitely I've warmed up to the understanding these days that
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: people have that magic should help your material life first
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: so that you can then pursue the spiritual life. I
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: think there's a valid there's validity to that point. Of
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: view that people have. For a long time, I sort
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: of resisted any kind of sympathy towards that perspective. But
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: now I, given this chaos of the world, and given
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: the rampant inequality we're facing, I think, yeah, all bets
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: are off. Fuck it. Do what you gotta do survive
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: And if God in the spirits of nature can't help
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: you survive, then what are we even doing here. So
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: there's a simple version with doing the Enokian heptarchia work,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: which is what I teach in my course, my intro course,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: I would work with the spirit of Mercury, like I
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: would recommend anyone to work with the spirit of Mercury
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: to get money as opposed to just general abundance. You know,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: someone wants to do money magic, you know, set up
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: an alter to mercury, get an orange orange altarcloth, get
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: some blue candles, and pray at it three times a
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: day to mercury spirits three times a day at least,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: and you know that'll help. It's helped everyone I've ever
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: told that to do. Who's done it and send me
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: photos of the beautiful altars they made? Have found major
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: benefits in doing that. Now, if you want to talk
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: about hardcore magic for a hardcore financial success. It always
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: seemed like that would be theoretically possible, but no one
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: really had the cojones to try to see how until now.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: And the great Scott Michael Stenwick, when he was on
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: my podcast recently told me what his workshop would be
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: at our Inokia con this year, because now we're in
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Crazy to think, but it is using
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: the CaCO diamonds, which most of us never work with.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: You're generally not meant to work with them. Most of
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: them are there to like caused illness and disease because
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: they are just simply the spirits that are those things.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: But he's looking at the CaCu diamonds of gems and
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: precious metals and has discovered a way to use them
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: and do magic in the Inokian system to achieve not
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: just financial success but wild degrees of wealth. And he's
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: speaking from experience, shall we say so, I don't know what.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: There's a room for twenty people to do that workshop
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: at our conference in Austin, Texas, November sixth through eighth.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: Go sign up at Arcane Research Society dot com for
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Slash twenty twenty six and you'll find out. Thank you
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: so much so that it's a great answer.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you and shout out Kelby Losac
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: because Kelby came on my show and he was like,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: this is how I do my money magic, and he
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: laid it all out and he basically does exactly what
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: you said now. He uses a p at you idle
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: as his kind of mercurial symbol, which I love because
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: there's a mercury Jupiter connection with lightning, so it kind
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: of works in both spheres if you want to call
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: it that. So I but I love that you describe
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: something so similar that a like a chaos magician who's
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: like my age like does and works for him. So
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: it's like there is something that is understandable and sort
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: of like transitive, you could say, a transitive property between
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: the two systems and like more I don't want to
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: call modern magic, but it's kind of like a you know,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: like what we're doing now.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: And I also think that.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: Everything that you said, like I think that we should
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: utilize the systems like I'm not up to I'm like you.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like, magic shouldn't be totally material and it shouldn't
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: be but it shouldn't be totally spiritual either. There has
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: to be something like pragmatic and like reasonable about it,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: where you're actually improving your material conditions, but maybe that's
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: not your primary goal. Maybe your primary goal is much
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: higher than that, but you still need the foundation to
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: sort of get there. So I really appreciate that you
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: said that.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 4: Also, we keep dancing around this color issue, so, uh,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: there's there's this change in color that is with the
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 4: you know, golden dawn sense. But I think it's really
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: interesting once you get into the flashing idea and how
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: you can achieve a sort of trans like state looking
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: at the different flashing colors, these two contrasting you know,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: colors that create a different tone in between the two.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean in you know, they're in our retina.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: My tie is orange and my shirt is blue. Right,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: these colors reverse in our in our in our eyes.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: And it is quite a psychedelic little aspect of the
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: gd system that plays with colors in this way. But
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: also the GDCS colors not as they see them as
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: the forces themselves. So by wearing a color, you're not
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: wearing something that represents the force. You're wearing that force itself,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: the color the force. Yeah, there was another aspect of
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: what you said that I wanted to respond to. Damn,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: what was that you distract me with those color references?
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: Colors always?
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually gonna ask school grat. I was
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: gonna ask you real quick. Actually, that's funny that he
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: brought up the you brought up the colors. I was
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: going to ask you if you purposely wore those because
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: it's it's Wednesday, right, And I figured that would be
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: like kind of no.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Just total coincidence, total coincidence.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: Because I would be like Marker in the Flash, Jupiter
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 3: would be blue.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: I just needed something to like make streaming and podcasting
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit more ritualistic and fun for myself. So
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: I thought, what if I get a planetary shirt for
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: each day and then wear them on the appropriate days
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: with the tie. The only ones I don't have is
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: a I don't have a green shirt and a red
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: tie because on Fridays I never really do any streaming stuff.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, no, that's not a day for streaming.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Usually it's a day for other things.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: What do I do?
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: I usually read? Oh, here's what I was going to
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: say before about the yeah, life abundant. Basically, you know,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: in the Hermitica, the the main in the Hermitic, in
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: Hermetic spirituality, the primary gesture to the world or to
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: creation is one of thanksgiving, right, But you don't give thanks.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: It's very human. When do we give thanks? We give
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: thanks at the end of the harvest. In Canada, we do.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you crazy Yanks celebrate something about
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: slaughtering First Nations or something like that. I don't know,
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: crazy Americans, but no, I'm joking. We give thanks because
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: of the harvest. And you give thanks because you know,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: the pilgrims were fed by the First Nations and you
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: gave them blankets that to keep them warm. And everything's
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: been grand ever since. Saint Irenaeus, who said some nice
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: things and some not so nice things, says that the
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: glory of God is every creature fully alive. And I
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: think if you look at the Hermetic approach to the
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: mysteries as one of thanksgiving, and you think, keep in
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: mind these Christian saints who were clearly a believers that
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: God wanted the best for us and wanted us to
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: appreciate the fullness of creation that God sacrificed God's self
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: to create and sustain in a constant act of creation.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: And what's funny about this language, of course, is it
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: actually at tracks really well on modern scientific understandings of
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: the universe and the constantly expanding cosmos that fades and
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: consumes itself so that it continues to perpetuate itself. Right
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: it dies, so it can be reborn in a sense.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: So there's this initiation of the soul that happens through
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: wondering and being open to the realities beyond the physical.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, our only fundamental response to
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: creation is to give thanks for it and for being alive.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: In the hermetic texts and spirituality that is. And so
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: I think we've seen this carried forward in the mystery
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: traditions of the West in a really beautiful and clear
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: way that it wasn't brought forward in Western religion. It's
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: encapsulated a bit better, I think, in Judaism than Christianity,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: because obviously Christianity got highly distorted by power structures that
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: you became very abusive and focused more on death than
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: life and rebirth. So there you go, So, yeah, do
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: magic to make your life better and then give thanks
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: for the life that you have and wonder. Initiate yourself
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: through wondering what is beyond. That's how hermetic spirituality were.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: It is initiation through simple contemplation of that which is
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: beyond the physical. That's all you need. Well, and a
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: guide helps. I have a quick follow up for that.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: That was great.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: That was a great bar But Okay, is Austin magic
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: because a lot of people, a lot of institutional magicians
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: have their.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Setup in Austin.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: So I just I need to know.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: I need to know what is the magic of Austin specifically,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: why is the temple set based in Austin? Why are
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: there are so many Victoria? Victoria is very magical too,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: but we don't have to get into that. But no,
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: but Austin, I mean Victoria BC. Yeah, Victoria b C. Well,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: like the oldest goal that you and lodges is there? Right?
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: So you know? Oh yeah, Jamie do you know Jamie paulamb.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, are you in Victoria b C?
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: No? I live in Canada though I was born in Vancouver.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, fellow Vancouver, right? Very nice? The yeah there?
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: The Golden Down Lodge in Victoria is not very old, right,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: It started up after I closed ours. The one in
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: Vancouver started in the early nineties. The one in Victoria
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: started the same year I closed down the one in Vancouver. Yeah,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: that's well, and there is there is another Golden Uh
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: thing in BC, but it's not public and therefore, Yeah, anyway,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: it's been around since the seventies though, But yeah, we
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: can't talk about that one. Austin.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: I've never been there, but my friends like Jeff Contreras
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: and other friends I met down in l a in
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: the in the mid nineties, they have been telling me
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: to come there for ages. Massive Golden presence, Massive Martin
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: is present, so many different magical presences. Jason Louver is
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: based there now. I got cut off earlier talking about
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: him and his pioneering of chaos magic that he's done.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: And well, you know, with the Inochian system in particular,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: you want chaos magic and Aenokian you know, Jason Love's
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: down in Austin. He'll be the featured presenter at our
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: workshop there this spring, and yeah, we'll be getting a
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: lot into the Chaosgic Nokian magic intersection this year in Austin.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a magical place, or if
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: it's on a lay line or whatever. But it's a
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: powerful spot from everything I've seen, and after I go
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: there this spring, I will let you know if I
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: find it personally to be a place of power. But
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: you know, they say it's a weird city, and weird
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: cities tend to be weird for a reason, right, Yeah,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: Jamie Paul Lamb, what's your point about him? Though, I
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: didn't want to interrupt that.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I just he he explained that he goes
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: he gets his grades in Victory, Like that's the lodge
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: that he goes to.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: He said it on air, So it's not like something yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: Well he's friends with my buddy Freder Yeshi there, my
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: old friend there. I met him in two thousand and five,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: just after he started up his temple there. So yeah,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: Jamie Paul Lamb is part of that group of the
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: Hermitic Society of the Golden Dawn is what they're called.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: Their chief Adepts are Freder Yeshi and Darcy Kuntz and
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Christine Zeleski, and there's some other prominent people involved with it,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: though I'm not sure if they're public about that. So
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: I won't say it, but yeah, we go back a
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: long ways, and yeah, they're I'm glad they're doing what
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: they're doing because Victoria deserves to have Golden Dawn initiations
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: available to people. So it's great that Jamie is still
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: involved with with those cool kids over there.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with freder Orchad and his kind of
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: work in Vancouver on the and of the daughter work?
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm not familiar, like I was doing
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: so during college. I was at cap College for a
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: year and I'd have these three hour breaks and I'd
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: go across the street to the graveyard and do my
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: rosary and invoke Thouth and do communion work with spirits
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: there in the graveyards. And I didn't realize that right
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: there was Fraderick Goodd's grave right like feet away from
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: this place where I was doing my work, and I
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: had no idea that he was there. It was just
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: a powerful place for me to do magic during you know,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: during those long university breaks you have sometimes between day
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: classes and night classes. Right, you can end the class
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: at four and no point going home, even though you
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: don't have to be back till eight, So you just
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: stick around and hang out and do hours of ritual
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: work and study your books. And yeah, it was right there,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: right out of Fraderickadd's grave, right there in the old
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: graveyard of North Vancouver where I grew up. And yeah,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't know much about him. Finally was given some
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: of his books, and they were very odd and confusing
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: to me, because I'm not too familiar with what he did,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm not familiar also with the AA and the
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: the thelemic system of Crowley from which he came. So
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: not only do I not understand his unique contributions, I
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: don't have an understanding very much of the baseline which
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: he's coming from, because those systems are so you know,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: similar but still speciated from the gd system, so they
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: don't really make a lot of sense to me. But
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: he's a very interesting guy, and I'm very proud to
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: have grown up in his hood, that city for life,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: north Shore baby. Yeah, shout out, shout out to the
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: you know, North Vancouver Waldorf School, all my anthroposophical homies.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: Nice. Let's saybody else has got another questions probably put
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: out now they are good. Was there anything else maybe
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: about it about that that you would like to add
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: before we wrap it? Up and about what an o
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: gay magic, if there's anything one of them.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: Oh God, maybe we could talk about it for forever.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: There's so much, so much exciting stuff going on in it,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: in it these days, I mean definitely Uh. I recommend everyone,
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: uh check out doctor Terry Burns's copy of D's Monus Hieroglyphica,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: the only good version ever made, and her fifty hour
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: YouTube course. Go to doctor Terry Burns on YouTube and
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: see her course start at the beginning. You don't need
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: the book to go through her course. I got the
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: book after I went through the course, and it's a
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: it's a it's the kind of information that will really
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: uh force your brain to stretch and and think in
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: some new and exciting ways, as well as the whole
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: historical aspect to it and the alchemical and magical side.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: And she even addresses those points when they come up
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: in ways that most academics would be afraid to but
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: she wasn't afraid to do it because she's already a
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: retired professor emeritus and has made it very clear she
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: no longer cares what people think and it is just
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: going to be true to herself. And God bless her
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: for that, because that is what we need from serious
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: scholars in my opinion, not people who are gatekeeping knowledge,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: deleting comments or refusing to engage in debates with others
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: because it might threaten their position. You know, we don't
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: need that shit anymore. There you go. Yeah, she's great,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: you'll love her. She's got a powerful mind, big brain,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: and it was a pleasure to get to start these
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: Inokian conferences with her support and collaboration and contribution. When
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: we do after twenty twenty six, we'll do twenty twenty
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: seven in Prague and we'll do a whole week of it,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: So we'll do a three day retreat going around Prague
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: and doing that work in all the magical places with her,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: and then we'll do a three four day conference there
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: with all the European Inokian personalities invited to present and attend. So, yeah,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be big this year. In Austin. We got
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: a whole building downtown, We've got multiple rooms, lecture hall,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: banquet hall. It's going to be fabulous. And right now
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: early enrollment is open. There's like only limited early enrollment
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: slots left, So if you want to get in at
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: the best price, go check it out right now, and
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: you get an access to not only in Nokia Con,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: but you also get access to the Spring Workshop, which
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: won't be on Inokian Magic particularly, It'll be whatever Jason
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Lee wants to present on, plus whatever the other presenters
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: present on. I'll be there and I will do a
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: little Inokian component as well. But yeah, lots happening this year,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: and we're excited to you know, do it in the
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: States before we take it over to Europe twenty twenty seven.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: Awesome, all right too, nice, Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: would definitely probably like to get you on again, maybe
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: like something a little bit more specific or some other
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: stuff to even do with Golden Dorm Magic or whatever.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, absolutely, I love talking about all this stuff.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this was great. Yeah, yeah for really Yeah, I
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: don't know, like kind of like jin too. I really
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: don't know much about Oki and Magic really so and
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: I haven't been able to cover it, so I thought
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: this was like, this was really amazing, So I really
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: appreciate it.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 4: Well, talk about a Dochei and chess.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Chess, oh, I know, well, you know you could watch
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: my interview with Christine Zeleski about that. I've only played
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: it once. I want to get into it some more.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: But Nicol, I'll send you a free code taxis my course.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: You can do my course and uh and then you can,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: uh we can get deeper into it once you've done that.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, yeah, all right, sure, yeah, that's okat,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 3: give it a try, okay, all right. Yeah, before we
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 3: wrap it up, let me let everybody plug their shows again.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: Head Let's giant, Lisa. Everybody know what they can find
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: all your shows?
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: How you doing?
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 4: You can find me at the Headless Giant on YouTube,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 4: on Twitter and tomorrow we got a another Headless Giant
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 4: uh mail bag coming up, so definitely shoot me those
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 4: emails at the Headless Giant podcast at gmail dot com.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 4: If you've got an esoteric or a cult or strange
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 4: story even dreams, send me those and then you'll get
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 4: some stickers in the mail, So send those to me
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: and uh we'll see you there tomorrow.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you very much, sir and the Ninja, Well,
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: thank you guys so much. It was another awesome roundtable.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: Obviously we packed them in tonight. If you want to,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: if you want to check me out at Threshold Saints
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: on I G and x Twitter those the show accounts,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: and then also at ww dot substack dot or ww
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: dot Threshold Saints substack dot com.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: That's one of the portals.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: And then for the gray Lodges ww dot the True
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: Gray Lodge with a v SO t r v E
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: plus Ultra Baby gray Lodge dot com you can hear
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: all our speculative a onic work hundreds of hours and
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: also check out all the shows with the other brothers,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: the other freighters of the Gray Lodge on my show.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much, Nick, obviously a huge honor.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you for ader RC. Appreciate it greatly. Obviously it's
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: great to hear another West Coaster on the show, especially
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: from our side of the West Coast. And Robbie and Headless,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: thank you guys so much.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: It's great. Well, yeah, no Vancouver in the house. Ah,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: that's right, that's the name. That's a nickname that you
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: wouldn't know. They nickname our city, No Vancouver, Oh heartless bastards,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: those Laurentian elites, ourselves.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's lots of do you can buy d MT
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: and cocaine over the counter, Yeah, and get a receipt
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: for tax write offs. It's not a good thing because
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: we didn't create any treatment centers. You know, we're like,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: we'll do it just like pro tr goal, but without
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: the treatment centers and the rehab that'll work.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Robbie Mauks, please let everybody know where they can
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: find all your stuff.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I am Our Marx or Robbie Marx. I'm an artist, illustrator, researcher, author.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 5: If you want to check out my various works, you
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 5: can connect with me at my link tree which is
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 5: link tree r M A r X and that has
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 5: my podcast, social media everything. And yeah, it was always
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 5: it's always great to come on with head listen Jin
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 5: you know, this is back to the old school and Fratterer.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 5: It's it's great to meet you and Nick. Thanks for
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 5: having me on as always. Get me out of my hole,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 5: you know, my little hermit hole up here in the
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 5: great north Woods.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 3: I'm glad that great stuff, great stuff. Thanks and Fred
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 3: see please let everybody know where they can find all
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: your stuff.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on. My podcast is on all podcasts platforms.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: Go give a nice review of me on Apple Podcasts
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: and Spotify if you don't mind, because not everyone's very
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: nice there. And yeah, that would help me out a lot. Otherwise,
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: go to Hermetic podcast dot com. You can become a
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: free member of my cyber Guild, show up to some
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: seasonal zooms, support me on YouTube, become a member, But
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: mainly you should go to the Arcane Research Society dot com,
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: subscribe for emails, and hopefully come to a live event.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: Because I love the Internet as much as everyone else.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: It's given us tremendou this opportunities, especially for us peasants
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: who didn't even have a seat at the table for
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: the longest couple of millennia and now we do. And
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: that said, though, real life is in person in my opinion,
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: and getting together at events, conferences, retreats, like I'm doing
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: this thing to build this thing and putting most of
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: the resources pretty much all back into it, so keeping
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: costs low and over serving as much as possible, putting
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: on as many events as possible, and providing as many
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: courses as possible. I can't even go into all the
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: things that we've been able to give for our members
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: to this point. There's a whole even academic course that's
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: underway now that is remarkably would have been remarkably hard
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: to access that kind of information outside of a university
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: graduate program. And so yeah, we're gonna the more people
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: join and get on board, the more we can do.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: So please support the Arcandresearch Society dot com and thanks
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: again for having me. I've been looking forward to this,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: uh for a while.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, this was great. Thank you to
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: get you back on in the future for sure.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you guys are doing great work.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 3: Trying trying, try my best, but uh yeah, thanks again
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 3: and thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 3: We had a bunch of people here like all the
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: comments and stuff. Uh that's when we go live and
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: uh yeah, that's the end of another Recult Rejects and
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: until the next one, everybody be well. Lada