Latest / The Property Unleashed Podcast / From Lettings to High-ROI Serviced Accommodation and Social Housing Strategy, With Emily McAtamney

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From Lettings to High-ROI Serviced Accommodation and Social Housing Strategy, With Emily McAtamney · The Property Unleashed Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to today's episode.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Mark Jared and today I'm joined by a special guest.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: I've got Emily McTamony joining me here.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Great to have you on.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Emily, how are you today?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good, thank you.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very well, very well.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Emily has decided or has made herself available, I should say, to come and have a little chat with me because I think for everybody watching this and listening to this as well, she's she's an inspiration because she's out there, she's she's active, and she's helping a lot of property investors find great service accommodation deals, stack the numbers, and what she's doing as well with the social sort of housing department at the moment as well is really, really interesting.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we're going to be covering quite a lot throughout of this, and I'm really excited to get stuck into it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, Emily, can you sort of just tell us a bit about yourself, sort of what your background and how you've got into the property world?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where do I start?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my first ever business I had, so I've been I've worked for myself since I was 18.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I actually worked in the health industry.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my first ever business when I was 19.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't have a clue what I was doing, I will say, but it worked out pretty well.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I sold that business in 2023.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I actually went and did some property training.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, didn't know you at the time, otherwise would have done uh education to action.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I did some training, just I think it was very much one of those that I wanted to invest in my knowledge before I started a business because I started a business and then learned the mistakes previously.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: We we were in Birmingham at the time and actually moved to Nottingham, my partner and myself.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: We bought a house up here.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So my first house we turned into a bite of that, which doesn't make a lot of money, I will say.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was kind of the first thing I ever did in property.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had a sort of brief stunt as a letting agent.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I decided that I wanted to kind of, and it was really, it was really different for me because I'd never really been, other than the odd coffee shop, I'd never really been employed as such.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I wanted to go into the industry to figure out what I really wanted to do.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, what better way to do that than essentially, you know, get paid a nine to five, but then also learn the knowledge.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I was doing lettings, which obviously taught me a lot about yeah, rental agreements and landlords.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, what I really gained from that is how to approach landlords if you're wanting to do rent to rent.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was something that I took away from that job.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then I met Graham from Prim Short Stays and he stole me away.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So then I ended up working for Prem, which is a fantastic company, really kind of taught me a lot about rent-to-rent and short stays, and it's been so valuable for me because I have met so many contacts and it's opened up different kinds of pathways and not just short stays.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I also work, so we've got a we've got a partner called Placement Finder who Danny O'Brien, you actually taught, didn't you, Mark?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we've had him on the show as well.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Have you?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So working with Placement Finder now, doing um essentially sourcing the properties for the care provision, long-term properties.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really exciting.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And through PRIM as well, we've made uh I've basically done a lot of outreach into social housing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we've kind of at the moment there's obviously such a need for it, actually using serviced accommodation to fulfil that need is kind of something we've been working on.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we work directly with a couple of councils, which one's quite new, where we essentially do temporary accommodation, and that's been really interesting for me because it was all you know really new as I was kind of getting into it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we also work with the housing associations, but there's a good opportunity there for kind of people doing rent to rent to make a little bit of money as well.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I'm still with Prem at the moment.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've got our vital let and my partner is in construction as well, which is quite handy.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So he does there we go, he does um obviously all like the build work and things like that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, we I mean our long-term plan, we are looking to sell the property, which is my first property that I bought in Birmingham.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I bought that by myself.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I bought in lockdown, and it was a very happy accident because it's worth a lot more than it was when I bought it, but I didn't have a clue what I was doing.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was like 3D.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it goes to show like holding property, it does, it can make you money, just doing nothing, buying property, and then it's it for four, five, six years.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean buy to let's definitely not kind of I think learning about social housing, I think there's better strategies than buy to let.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we're basically going to sell that and then use the the money from it and start our own yeah, flips, VRRA's, social housing, all sorts of compli complicated strategies, and that's our sort of plan.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing, amazing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't thought about turning your buy to let into an essay then?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think again, this is where um it's been so beneficial um working for PRIM and really understanding areas and numbers.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's where my property is, it's it's not central Birmingham, it's south Birmingham, so it's kind of out of the way.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's only a two-bed as well.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not, I mean, it's in Hales Owen in Birmingham, and the contractor market is really strong there, but four, three, and four beds, not two beds.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it is something that I've absolutely looked at.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I just think in my head, I'm like, if I can sell this and buy two more properties, you know, refurb them, refinance them, then potentially look at service accommodation or social housing, that's going to make a lot more money.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's kind of looking at what you've got, isn't it, and how you can turn that into more, I suppose.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I did look at it, but it's just it's not quite the right property for service accommodation, I'd say.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you would know, you would know.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's that's I mean, that's cool.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: I at the end of the day, just buying something, a lot of a lot of the times, you know, the first properties we buy aren't the best properties because we don't, as you say, no, really know what we're doing, but we have bought something.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And fundamentally, if you look after it and sit on it, the value does go up, your capital growth is there and things, and then and then as you start to get yourself educated, you understand that there's or you realize, should I say, that there's a lot more you can do with that money.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the fact that you're looking at free that money up, you know, and then we can go, we can do some flips, you know.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: You your partner's very hands-on in the business, so to speak, got all the skills, so it sounds like it's really, really good.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, if you can start to build up that momentum investing, that's where you can truly start to build up, you know, that future wealth for yourselves as well, which is great, isn't it?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's interesting you said that because kind of everywhere I go, you know, people are like, oh, it's not the right time to buy, or the market's a little bit tricky, but like it it's always the right time to buy, isn't it?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got the funds and you can buy a house and you should absolutely do it, I feel like I'm sort of in a position now where I've spent, I've kind of slowed down and and really taught myself kind of everything to figure out exactly where I want to go.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually buying that house.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was in a really lucky position.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never say, oh, I was self-made.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: My mum and dad paid the deposit, I'll be honest, they helped me out.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was in lucky division, but I bought that house off plan.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was 20, I'm 26 now, um, and that house has gone up by about 85,000 pounds just in the time that I've held it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little two-bed, semi-detached, it's your standard new build.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But having made the decision to have that house at the time I did, it's now put me in a position where I've got funds that I can put into something else.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really, really glad I did that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, I think if you know, a lot of people that was I obviously use my first-time buyers benefits on that as well.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't pay any stamp duty.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a help to buy.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they do the help to buys anymore.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you can find a way to buy, like I think it is, you know, it's really worthwhile doing.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I actually know a lady who lives in London and they don't do this anymore, but it was so what I used to buy mine was a help to buy where the government loaned me 20%, it's interest free for five years.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: She had done this on a property in London and they had basically downvalued.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So when you come to sell it, say you bought it for sort of£100,000, for example, and you loan that 20%.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you come to sell the property, you have to pay them back 20% of the value.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: She had she had basically had it valued, her property, and they had downvalued it so much that she ended up paying less than she had borrowed, held on to it for a couple of years, it had gone up by like 80,000, 90,000 pounds, sold it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's how she started her property journey.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So holding property is just something that people don't think about, I think, a lot, and it's it's so worthwhile doing.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I also do think that you know, sometimes certain properties do have a lifespan, they serve their purpose, cash in on those, and if you can take those funds and put them elsewhere, then it's it's a very good idea to do.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that I I've met people that have held on the properties that all of a sudden when they bought them, and this was quite a few years ago, it was a great area and things, but that area is not so good now, and there have been times where they could have cashed out, but they've left it too long now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: The area's really started to go down, and they've actually found that they're they're you know normal, not negative equity, but they're not making the money that they should have been making, and it's like, well, now I don't know what to do.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you you know, properties living and breathing, you've got to keep an eye on it.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think play the long game, you normally win.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: But equally, I mean, I've sold properties as well, and I've I've never looked back and thought, oh, I regret that now, seeing that it's worth more.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think, well, that I got what I wanted to get from that property at that moment, because on hindsight, you know, we we never know what's going to go on there.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: So just going back then, you you you went into the lettings sector, you work there and everything, and then you've gone into uh the service accommodation sector as well.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, what's the balance on on each of each of those for you?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of like what do you mean?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in in sorry, in in terms of you know, different sectors, they are complete completely different sectors, you know.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Your lettings can be slower, so to speak, because once you put people in, they should be okay and things.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the SA side of things and stuff is is a lot quicker paced, a lot more movement and things.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, where where do you sit with that?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: What what do you enjoy the best?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, service accommodation all day long.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: That didn't, yeah, lettings fall.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't enjoy that job, I'll be honest.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I hope my uh old employer is not watching this, but no, I didn't enjoy it, it's a different world.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think from kind of the perspective of working there, lettings is it's someone's home, that's the difference.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas service accommodation is a hotel business, um, so there's a lot more management that goes into sort of a residential letting from an investment point of view.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you've got a property, there's obviously lots of changes that are coming in.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I've I've really seen some horror stories.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've like seen what's gone on in lettings where you can have someone in your property, and I just think the way kind of the the law is at the moment is more favorable to tenants than it is to landlords.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's very much a culture of landlords or really rich people that can just throw money away, and it's you know, I'm I'm a landlady and I work a nine to five, it's it can be anyone.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, lettings is it's less money for more hassle to kind of put it in a nutshell, I would say.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Service accommodation up until now, the regulations and the things that you have to do are much more lenient, so it's easier to get into.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, if you're kind of starting out as well and you're going down the rent to rent method or the rent to rent route, you can't rent to rent to rent, but you can rent to SA.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there's more options there.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh services accommodation is is essentially a hotel business.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, from an investment point of view, you know, using license agreements, they haven't got tenants' rights.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you had someone who, you know, god forbid, did something to the property, you can kick them out straight away.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go through court and end up six to eight months in rent arrears.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So naturally, from an investment point of view, I prefer service accommodation, but also it's I suppose it's one of those I went from management to um business development and sales.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't do the management of service accommodation, but it it's a lot more, there's a lot more people coming and going rather than just one person.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it's from what I oversee anyway, it's it's definitely easier to manage.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, both obviously come with you know problems.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have both in your portfolio, I imagine at one point you will have issues with people that are staying in service accommodation and tenants.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the yeah, it's my favorite out of the two for all of the above reasons.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's good.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's really good.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: And now you obviously have sessions in our members' community where you come in, you help identify properties that are actually on the market for rent and things for people that are looking for rent to rents as well as buy-in as well.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: But we look for properties on the market and then you run the numbers very quickly.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're an absolute genius when it comes to that, and you always help me with my numbers with those as well.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and and I mean those those sessions are so so powerful, but we're actually seeing members of the community as well at the moment that are doing these sessions and then they're going out there and getting deals, which is which is great because uh you know I see a lot of people that can procrastinate, can be very, very difficult to work out.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think the numbers to work out is the area right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: What who am I gonna be sort of trying to put into the properties and things and of course from your sales perspective and things?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: What I always try and do when it comes to looking for a service accommodation deal is I always try and think about who am I gonna put in there before I actually sort of work out whether the property's gonna work.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm interested to, you know, what do you sort of look for, just for you know, people watching this or the listeners and things, what is the sort of first things that you'll look for when you're looking at properties in an area?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Relevant to service accommodation or just relevant to uh no service accommodation.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm a service, I'm looking for service accommodation deals in an area.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: What what's the sort of things that, if we can give some people a few tidbits of advice that uh they should be looking out for?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, straight away, just based off kind of our portfolio and the conversations I have with our revenue manager at PRI, three and four bed properties are performing better across the board rather than the one and the two bed apartments.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think we've touched on this in our deal clinics before, but and I've said it before, but kind of comparing the increase on the rent if you're doing rent-to-rent for a three or a four-bed versus a shiny one or two bed, and the the correlation between the rent and the increase in the average daily rate, it's it's a numbers game.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think service accommodation, especially if you're new to it, you your mind kind of defaults to leisure stays, flashy properties that look good on Instagram.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's not those ones that do the best, it's the bug standard, whitewashed um contractor properties.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got some in Lincoln, which is it's not the flashiest area.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what you do in Lincoln if you want to stay there, but the contractor market is really strong, therefore the properties do well.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the ones that we're seeing you know, returns in 10,000 plus rather than seven to eight thousand plus.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, from what we kind of know across our portfolio and sort of market trends, three and four bed properties are doing better.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: If I could really narrow it down, if you're looking on the market, look for three to four bed property that's relatively modern.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the kitchen is built within the last six to seven years, it's nice and fresh, you know, just like a normal kind of the feel you get with a new build, as close to that as you can get.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ideally, you want parking and you want it to be essential as possible.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: When you're scanning and just having an initial look, those are the things that I would look for first.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to source the deal yourself and you're going to be approaching agents, I would always look for what's been listed for the longest, and I'd look in that order.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but initially, that's what that's what we want to look at.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably nine out of ten deals aren't going to work, so it's really a case of go through whether you're using WriteMove or OpenMent, go through and favorite the ones that take off those initial boxes, and then if we can just run some numbers quite quickly, you then know which ones you want to get in straight away, pick up the phone, get a viewing book on those because they do go quickly.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is the trouble.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, it is, it is, and of course, our community has you running the numbers a lot of the time and helping them out, which it just gives you that sort of security that you, you know, when somebody's got the experience that you've got as well, being able to have a look at that and say, that's actually a no-brainer, that's a really, really good deal.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that obviously Callum had one as well, didn't he?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Where he was looking at a property.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: We found the property on the open market to buy, and all of a sudden it's stacked up so well as a service accommodation unit that it made buying it an absolute no-brainer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's great, great tips as well, because I I think a lot of people get hung up in that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, there's no deals out there, there are deals out there, but just not everything's gonna be a deal, you know.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to find the right things, and also it's it's looking at the areas and the comparisons as well to see what's there.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like you say, your bulk standards are good, but they've still got to be fresh, they can't be really, really old.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: You are gonna start to struggle with those when it comes to whoever whoever is gonna be staying in there.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think the contractor market is the good market, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: If you can get into that, it's a steady away market, pretty, you know, it gets rid of a lot of the seasonable, seasonal sort of people staying as well, doesn't it?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it it's one of those as well where we the way we do numbers will always be really conservative.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically we're putting that property through, kind of like they would on a bite-letter stress test, if you like.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Will it really cut it sort of on those bottom line numbers?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And one and two bed apartments, they are always going to be predominantly leisure and corporate, which is prone to seasonality.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you get something, but on the flip side though, same with sort of we've got some properties that are like five, six beds, you know, really luxury properties, they are also prone to seasonality.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Those ones tend to work a lot better if you own the property, in my opinion, unless you've got below market rent and you've got a good deal on it, and you're you can afford more, the margins are slightly larger.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: At market rate, you are gonna have some months where you're in negative cash flow nine times out of ten.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think as well, kind of the current economy and obviously cost of living and things like that, what we are seeing is a bit of a downward trend of leisure bookings as a whole.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the night what's happening is the nightly rate is starting to come down and it's all everyone's competing with each other, so it's starting to drop down.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a property, and this is where a three and a four-bed is just a sweet spot because naturally you'll get leisure bookings if it's in a good location.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's also one that straight away we can get sort of relocation bookings.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, these are really amazing bookings when they do come in.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, it's someone's had a flood in their house, the insurance is going to pay out to put them somewhere potentially for 12 months.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: The three in the four-bed houses, those are going to be the main ones because most people are a couple with a child or three children or two children.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the types of houses that are going to appeal to those types of bookings.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Contractors, um, contractors don't just come out, you know, Christmas time and summer when the sun's out, they'll be in there in January when everyone else has got no money, it's just been Christmas and no one's travelling in the UK.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you're essentially appealing to all of the markets.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you say, it's less prone to seasonality, so it's a little bit more predictable across the year.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So those they're definitely if you, you know, if you want something where it's it's going to be more consistent and you're not going to have high highs and low lows, that's the type of property I would be looking for at the moment.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: Nice, nice, good advice.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: As always, as always.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, print short stays is national, isn't it?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: You can basically that you know it's it's a service accommodation company that manages properties for landlords, for investors, and uh you cover pretty much most of the UK, don't you?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We do, yes.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we are the only place that we don't operate at the moment is Scotland because the regulations are a little bit tricky.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, we're set up pretty much everywhere.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say the bulk of our portfolio is kind of Birmingham upwards, and because we started out in the East Midlands, but we've got a few properties.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're starting to get into the London market, which is yeah, really London's a great area for obvious reasons as well.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's good, it's good.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why Graham, who obviously owns Prim Short Stays and everything, and who's who's the gaffer, so to speak, business partner of mine as well.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's why when I put together the service to accommodation training, I got Graham in because you know he's got he's got this big company that he's built up, but he's got other businesses that he's in as a serial entrepreneur, a great guy.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I learned my service to accommodation knowledge through Graham because why not?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the guy's got over eight, probably nine years worth of experience now.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: He's gone through recessions, he's gone through COVID times, he's kept going.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you are interested in learning more about service accommodation, you want to immerse yourself, then then check that out as well.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because we have the ultimate service accommodation business builder, a little plug here, but there are a lot of people that are interested in SA and things, and of course, why not be taught by one of the best in the business?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that's brilliant.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, service accommodation is great.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: We want to be looking for those bigger properties.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of saturation as well in the smaller properties, as you say, there.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a bit more competition that you're going to be going at, whereas the bigger properties are starting to, you know, really reap the rewards of getting higher bookings and things.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I do like the fact of speaking or getting in with contractors, getting in with insurance brokers.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: I even say talk to estate agents as well, because if there's ever a chain that's going through and somebody all of a sudden in that chain has sold their property, needs to move, but wants to be in somewhere for a couple of months while everybody else gets themselves sorted, it's worth getting out there, it's worth talking to people about that as well.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any particular areas at the moment that you would say to maybe avoid?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good question.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Derby.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Derby is not the best area at the moment.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: For a three or a four-bed property, you you're probably looking£115 a night.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's essentially, I think, if we're talking about rent-to-rent, it's very much you want somewhere where the rent isn't really, really high, but the average daily rate is obviously quite nice.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do I explain this?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some parts of London, if you were getting sort of a three-bed property, it might cost you£3,000 plus.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the daily rate might only be£240, or the average nightly rate£240.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas a nice part of Birmingham, like Edgebaston, for example, Harborn, somewhere that's a stone's throw away from the city centre, you might be looking£2,000, 1,800, but you can also achieve probably about£230.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a numbers game.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um Derby, just from kind of what we see, is it's not the strongest area.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Although certain parts are doing well, again, the three and the four bed houses, not the apartments.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um what we are noticing is Nottingham is actually becoming really saturated at the moment.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's not an area to avoid as such.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's an area where you need to be more competitive for the property to perform well.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and again, if you were to find something, I mean, we one of our landlords, one of our clients took on a few months ago in Market Street a block of four one beds, which obviously normally you'd say, oh, one beds are not going to do really well.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are right, you literally walk out in the trams there, there's Debonham's slug and lettuce, it's a perfect central location.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um she actually got a really good deal on the rent.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, the market rent would probably be about a thousand pounds an apartment, she's paying 700 and something per apartment.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of margin, and those are doing really, really well.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just an example of if you have something that's a good deal and you stage it, she spent you know, a good chunk of money making them really, really beautiful, really well staged.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: They will do well in saturated areas.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: If there's just more competition and you need to stand out, and I think a lot of people, if I could give some advice as well, a lot of people starting out will go, Oh, well, I'll just furnish it myself because it will save me a little bit of money.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um it is worthwhile actually using a professional to stage your property.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you actually look at it, it doesn't cost that much more, in all honesty.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously pay a premium, but it's absolutely worth it to have your property stand out and be as competitive as it can, because it does make a difference to your nightly rate and how the property will perform.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you're looking at being an investor, whether you're doing rent to rent or whatever, and you're in London, maybe, or or in more expensive areas, if you're not planning, and I don't always think it's best to do it yourself anyway, if you're not planning on running the properties yourself, then using a company like Prim or at least having a conversation with them, because A, they can run your numbers, check that uh it's going to be a good deal.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, their their fees and everything will be put into the numbers with their fee, without their fee, and things.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: But the other thing is you have the team, don't you?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the boots on the ground, so to speak, to be able to go in there and set these properties up, don't you?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: We so we uh we we do do it ourselves, but we also work with a couple of companies that we've got a couple of partners, and they're great and we do lean on them quite a lot.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: One is slightly more high-end, I'd say, for the luxury properties, one is um they do social housing packs, they do they do high-end as well, but they also do that mid-range stuff for contractor properties.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But one one area we do struggle um as a management company is someone who is self furnishing, or they've used someone that they've found on a Facebook group to go and stage it, uh, and we get there and it's just it's not to the standard it needs to be for service accommodation.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: You end up spending more money because we're missing kitchen.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Impacts and whatnot.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So for actual flow, just relying on professional companies to get it up and running, it is it's really worth the extra little bit of money, I would say.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, it gets you the bookings as well.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: And let's let's touch, let's talk about uh placement finder then as well, because obviously, as I say, you're a very busy lady getting out there and doing everything.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: So just for for people that don't really know what placement finder is or anything, what what uh what is it all about?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So placement finder, um the easiest way I can describe it is they work with the care provision, so helping house children that have got sort of various and health issues, so it could be spinal injuries, they may have sort of mental disorders like autism, etc.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now they started out doing crisis placements, so essentially PRIM do work with them, they you they also use other companies as well, but essentially bridging the gap between the care provision and the landlord, so finding them those those properties.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now I work with placement finder in a sourcing aspect.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so essentially the the care providers that they work with will come and say, right, we need a property in Lincolnshire, it needs to be a three-bed bungalow for this particular um service user, and these are the requirements.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I will then use my network, find a landlord, and connect the dots.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: It can also be sort of C2 registered property as well, so children's homes.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a massive demand for those at the moment, and so going out and finding those that are ready to lease.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I work more on the long-term stuff replacement finder, but it's uh it's a really rewarding role, I would say, because you're helping obviously, you know, uh children that need it the most.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's one of those that I think landlords are either all for it or they're really not for it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: They say no, it's you know, because it does come with damage, it is is one of those things, but also the financial element, it's a very good lease to have as a landlord.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and like you say, it's not for everybody, it's not for the faint-hearted, I'd put it that way, but you can make a real difference, can't you?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's one of the things I've I've always been a massive supporter with Danny and everybody who's doing this because it really is helping the youth of today that are less fortunate than our a lot of us that have these have those issues, and and it's helping a lot of people.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: So you're always are you always sort of on the lookout then for any sort of landlords that might say, Well, I've got a couple of properties, would would that suit the needs in this area and things?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is is landlords reaching out to you a good thing or a bad thing?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a good thing, and all I would say is so their requirements will always change.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they may one week they might want something in Kent, the next week they might want something in Birmingham.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: It does change, and those are the ones that we can kind of structure and get a lease done pretty quickly on.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Although, I think it was it Connor, Connor on Education to Action, he's got a bungalow and he was chatting to me, and I said, Oh, I might pinch this replacement finder if you want to talk about it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we've had a chat on that.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes just reaching out like he did, I actually have a need for that type of property.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And even though it's not straight away, or it may not be straight away, there may be a need for it in the future.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I have essentially landlords on sort of a CRM system, and then agents that I know and have met through my career that know the landlords will be happy with it, and I'll basically reach out and say, right, I've got a policement request, I need a property here.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: What have you got?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I tend to structure it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so absolutely, you know, landlords that might be interested in that type of lease, I would it'd be ideal to have a chat with them because at some point I may have a need for your property.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's that's good, that's good.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: And is there a certain channel that they should go down to to sort of notify you that they've got a property?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, not necessarily no.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, just emailing me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can drop my email.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: My placement finder email is probably the best place just to get in touch and then obviously have a call.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's really helpful doing that kind of work because anytime I kind of speak to a landlord now, I've got the knowledge of service accommodation.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, what we do with placement finder through print.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're now working with housing associations, so I've got an understanding of the different options for each property.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite nice.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've got, I'll give you an example.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a property in Birmingham through PRM for one of our clients, and this was one of those very sticky situations where the head lease says you're not allowed to do Airbnb, and we go, Okay, we didn't see that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's what all management companies do.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's only a case of when you get a letter to say you can't do it and you get told off you actually have to close that listing down.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now that did happen with this property, so he's not able to continue it as Airbnb, but he's bought all the furniture, it's been running for a little while.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, What do I do?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not happy with like all the renters' reform, I don't want to do a long-term residential.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the housing associations that we're working with, um, we recently just worked on a block and we're working on another one at the moment.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they've reached out and they said, Right, we actually need the best part of 40 properties and we need them in two weeks.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: We need two beds, what have you got?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so this property, which was running a service accommodation, I've actually put that to them and we've managed to negotiate something that the landlord's happy with.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we've restructured that.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as we said earlier, I think on sort of buying properties, you you have to always be able to restructure if you need to, because something might work for a while and then it doesn't work, and it's like, what do you do then?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really valuable having all these different pathways and and having this knowledge because you know, like this example that we have in Birmingham, it worked really well.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then we had a bit of a situation and we're able to restructure it because we've got those connections.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's really interesting.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, it is good, it is good.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll get uh your your email and stuff off of you so we can put it in the show notes and things.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: And if there are any landlords listening to this that want to reach out to you, that's great.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it is those different channels because the renters' reform bill and all of that that's going on at the moment is scaring a lot of people, a lot of landlords trying to get out of the market as well.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people just need a bit of help because there are so many opportunities and so many options out there, and I and I know you know in ETA the community there is brilliant because people are always asking the questions, they're always looking for that bit of advice, and that's the whole thing, that's what it's all about there is to support each other moving forward because there's a lot of people that don't know that there's opportunities like this out there, isn't there?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, with everything that's going on and people being like a little bit scared of vital at essentially, there is an opportunity within that chaos, which is a lot of landlords are kind of old school and they're selling off their portfolio because they're like, Oh, had enough, I'm gonna take my money and put it in a interest, high interest savings account and whatnot.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of opportunity, and there's a lot of stuff that's not on the market where you can get yourself, you know, a pretty good deal.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can a lot of the time you've got the option where you can actually buy it after they've moved the tenant out, and and if you can restructure that into um something that might work for a care provision or you know, social housing, get a five-year lease in there so you're not having to do much, and then the property's going up over that time.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's you've just got to get a bit creative with it.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of opportunity, although I think it's very easy when you kind of look on the Facebook groups and things, all you'll see is a lot of negativity and a lot of problems that landlords are facing, but there is opportunity within that, you just need to find it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: And the placement finder thing as well is if you've got a serviced accommodation that you're thinking to yourself, do you know what?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: If placement finder could help uh, you know, a young adult, a young child or whatever, I'd like to be at least you know, letting you know about that, then you still run it as an essay.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't just mean it stops because all of a sudden place but if placement finder finds somebody and they might say, Well, we need your property for at least 30 days uh because of the way that it's structured and everything.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's whether or not they're in there for 30 days a lot of the time, as well, isn't it?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: They normally book it for 30 days, they might be in there for 15, it might just be a quick placement and things.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know things change all the time, but if they if they did that, then you would get it back at the end.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think you get it back the way you gave it to them anyway, don't you?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, and any sort of it's it's very much one of those that you have to be comfortable because nine out of ten times there will be damage.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: It just comes with the nature of the bookings, but that is completely covered by the care provision.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they pay for any sort of work that needs doing, and it's worth noting as well, you can either use your own contractors or if it's kind of managed by Prim, we'll use our contractors.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people I speak to who kind of have done or looking into social housing, they're like, there's this one story that goes round that like, I've heard this horror story, they um fix it to council standards and whatnot.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen with these types of bookings, it's a service accommodation, and so if there is damage, it will be fixed to a service accommodation standard.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean the the bookings are generally on average about four to eight months.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're a little bit shorter, sometimes they're longer.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's just you know, obviously replacement finder, but also through the housing association route, this particular company we're working with, because they are based further afield, the rates that they are paying are quite nice, to be honest.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now they are wanting to, because they obviously get paid a nightly rate, they're wanting to have something pretty flexible where it's essentially a rolling monthly contract.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: The chances are they'll be in there for kind of six months, but there's no guarantee.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're just going to pay every month, they're going to pay the bills.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, where we've got um the need for 40 plus properties in the next few weeks, this is actually a really nice opportunity for service accommodation operators because we are now September coming into October, we're going to start to get into the slow season and actually putting in these bookings, which will most likely be in there for six months.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually going to carry us through that slow season.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So having a service accommodation that you can, you know, give to placement finder for when they need it, but also housing associations might do sort of a flexible contract.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: You've got almost like a hybrid model, which is really interesting.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's something that we can obviously do through Prim.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Prim.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out to Prim, shout out to Bet uh Graham's ears are burning today.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's brilliant.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's great, it's great to explain that and everything, and it's great to have you on as well.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what I like to do with my guests at the end is a quick fire round.
• 41:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Where I've got a few questions I'll just ask you.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I'm always interested in what people's answers are.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: Are you all right for that?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, got a little scared now, but yeah, that's no, no, no, it's all it's a bit of fun, it's a bit of fun.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, what's the best advice you've ever been given?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: The best advice by okay, so this is from a big, big time landlord, like multi-millionaire.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: He told me to basically slow down.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, in business, he said, slow down, get your strategy completely right, sort out all your teaming issues, and then go again.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: So don't walk before you can run.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, slow down, look at what you're doing, get it right, and then replicate it.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that stuck with me since I had that conversation.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I Graham's the same as well, actually.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're both very similar personality types that we like, we can do spin a lot of plates and we get really excited, but actually just taking a moment, slowing down, focusing on what I'm doing.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was some really good advice.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then Graham himself, actually, he has got this saying where he's like, let's get a proof of concept.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hear that in my head pretty much every day.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're looking at kind of you know, tapping into social housing and we're doing new things, rather than being like, right, let's reach out to all of them.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: We'll start with one, we get the proof of concepts and then we repeat.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: So those two people have given me some really good advice, and it's it's basically slowing down, getting it right, and then replicating rather than going through it all at once.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a bit like that.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: I tend to run straight at everything, and then I have to then raise myself back in and then go through the proper steps.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: But no, that's great, great advice, great advice.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: If you could sit down and have dinner with three people, dead or alive, whoever you want, who would you like to sit down and have dinner with and chat to?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I right, this is gonna throw everyone off.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I read, I think it's called the 50th rule, is it the 50th rule by 50 Cent?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't listen to his music, not my cup of tea, but I read that book and it was really interesting.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he's I think if it's someone that you don't listen to or understand on a daily basis, he's been through a lot in his life, and I got a lot of value from that book.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I would like to have I'd like to have dinner with him, sit down and talk to him.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: That is one person now, completely unrelated to property, and there is a lady called Mel Robbins in America.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: She talks a lot about um sort of mindset and mental health.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've listened to her for many, many years.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I really like her approach.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's very down-to-earth, and she's very psychology scientific based rather than woo-woo spirits.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I prefer someone who's like, here's the solid proof that this works and this is how our brains work.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um she's I've listened to her for a long time.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to sit down and have a conversation with her.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then who's the last one?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know, to be honest.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who would be the last person?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Elon Musk, he's made a lot of money in his life.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to pick his brains.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, nice, nice.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you'd be you'd rather sit down with Curtis Jackson rather than 50 Cent, because as he always says, 50 Cents his persona, and it was what everybody thinks.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: But when they actually sit down and talk to him, uh, I've read that book as well.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: He's a different person, isn't he?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think we get we get caught up by just looking at the personas and things.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Brilliant stuff.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, and the last one is have you got sort of a top three books that you've read, maybe books that have changed the way you think or you've enjoyed that um the listeners might like as well.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: We we chatted on this before we started, didn't we?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not so before I started reading, I used it.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's an app called Headway, which is really good.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if you're I'm I would say I'm quite a busy person, kind of.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've got my routine, I wake up, I walk the dogs, I work all day, I don't get a lot of time to sit there and read a book and enjoy.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for a long time I used the Headway app and it's almost like a book summary.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you can put your headphones on while she's walking the dog um and listen to that, and that's really good, and it's something that I need to get back into because I've dropped off a little bit.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the last kind of few books I've read with mainly been around sort of mindset.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really read property books, I prefer podcasts and stuff I can kind of plug in and walk around when it comes to learning as such, but it's a really like common one but Good Vibes, Good Life by Vex King is a really good book.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed that.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's essentially the law of attraction, but with science added in.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think with that one, I read that book and I actually wrote down like an action list and I was like, I will start to do these things and implement them.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I did, and it did improve the quality of my life, which sounds really cheesy, but it was a good book.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Atomic Habits is a good book as well.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not my favourite, I think Good Bad is good life is definitely better.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then those are probably the last two that I've read in in this entire year, I'll be honest.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't get the time in summer.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd used to sit in my we've got an egg term in the garden and I'd sit and read, but now the weather's getting a little bit yeah, colder.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't really find the time for it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: But Headway or similar apps, I'm sure there's loads out there, is a really good one.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's I've forgotten his name now, it's Ali something on YouTube who talks about like habit stacking.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you're really busy, um just being able to put two things together is is a good way to kind of remember.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So having books that I can listen to in summary, so I can fly through them and walk all four of the dogs that we've got here as well is is quite helpful.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's amazing.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've got like good vibes, I've never read it.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite a small little book.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's quite thick, but it's it's not a very big book, is it?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: The actual size of it.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Have a read of it, it's really good.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I will do now.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: I will do now.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's been absolutely amazing to have you on.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always conscious of everybody's time as well, and we've all got busy schedules and things.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Any final thoughts before we wrap this one up?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's been really good.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've really enjoyed it.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, I will send you my placement finder email as well before I forget.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I mean, if I can kind of add any value to anyone, please feel free to reach out and have a chat with me.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always here.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing, amazing.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you very much.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope you've enjoyed this episode.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: I've always enjoyed bringing these episodes to you.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: We'll put links in the show notes for everything that we've spoken about today.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: And mainly for me, is it's just get yourself out there.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Get yourself out there.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of opportunity out there in the property world at the moment.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of different things that you can do.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you are struggling, then reach out to us because I'm sure, in some way, shape, or form, one of us could help you to move yourself forward.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: I look forward to you joining me again very soon.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: Take care and bye for now.