Latest / Only Fee-Only / #165 - Equity Compensation & Flat-Fee Financial Planning with Marcel Miu

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#165 - Equity Compensation & Flat-Fee Financial Planning with Marcel Miu · Only Fee-Only

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: How's it going, everyone?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the OnlyFe Only Podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, thanks for being here.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Today we are joined by Marcel Mew, founder of Simplify Wealth Planning in Austin, Texas.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Marcel specializes in helping professionals navigate the complexities of equity compensation, including stock options and RSUs with a comprehensive financial planning approach.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Before launching his own firm, he spent more than a decade in the investment industry with firms like JP Morgan and Cohen and Steers, where he worked closely with financial advisors and their clients.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Today we'll talk about building a niche planning practice, why he chose a flat fee model, and what he's learned from growing his own firm.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, here's Marcel Mew on the OnlyFee Only Podcast.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going, everyone?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only Podcast.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Peter Travolo.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with my co-host Brock Fuckles, and today we're so excited to have Marcel Mew on from Simplify Wealth Planning.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: He joins us from Austin, Texas.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've had the privilege of being able to work with some of his clients, and now we're really excited to have him on the show and share his expertise.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Marcel.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot, Peter and Brock.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to be here.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Longtime listener.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to be on the show today.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So let's uh give a quick introduction of kind of your firm and who you're serving.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's that look like?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we can start there.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So my firm, Simplify Wealth Planning, uh was launched like right around three years ago.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And is uh the niche that we serve is people and employees that earn company stocks.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh many of these people tend to be folks that are in the tech industry, but we also work with people across a variety of industries, biotech, financial services, consumer goods.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, really anybody that comes to the table with things like stock options or RSUs, all the nuances that come with that, that's our bread and butter.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, naturally with that, you know, oftentimes these people are um married to people that are not in those sorts of fields.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we do get the exposure to um other sorts of financial situations.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we do lend our expertise across the board.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool, man.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And where does the uh interest in financial planning come from?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that you kind of started at JP Morgan, you've been at some other places over the years, and then eventually obviously wanted to go on and found and do your own thing.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but where does kind of the background and the interest uh of fee-only planning and just financial planning in general uh come from for you?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my background largely stems from being in the investments world.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So as you mentioned, started at JP Morgan, actually started in their uh Columbus, Ohio office for a couple of years.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: From there, I went to transfer the JP Morgan office in New York City, was there for a little while, and then um ultimately made my way over to working for another investment firm uh that's well known for like real estate and real asset investing.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Cohen and Steers.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was there for probably upwards of 10 years, and throughout my time, whether it be with JP Morgan or Cohen and Steers, very much so worked um very closely with financial advisors, their end clients, did some stuff on the institutional side of the world as well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but always enjoyed my time working with the advisors and with their end clients.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as someone who's originally from the Midwest, didn't really see myself being in New York City for the long run.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I had, you know, kind of let's call a COVID time era where everyone had a lot of time on their hands.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: You really get um the space needed to think about what you want next.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So what I did was I was, you know, kind of laying the groundwork, if you will, for what it would look like to launch my own advisory practice.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, in a lot of ways, the reason why it took a couple of years for me to do that was trying to convince myself why I should not do it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, ultimately landed on more pros than cons in that equation.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and always liked working with people directly.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I uh, you know, had a desire to do something of my own.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I um was eager to take on the challenge and you know, something that ultimately um put in a lot of hard work into and it it's it's paid off up to this point.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sort of my road from you know starting out in a sort of tangential field um to working my way through the the path of you know working direct with directly with clients today.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when was the first time that you heard the term fee only?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it was probably reading a bunch of kitsis articles.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So as part of that work to lay the groundwork um for launching my own practice, I probably read like a hundred kitsis articles, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, it gives you so much detail, a lot of the content that they produce with respect to like all the little things that you need to understand and learn.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm sure it was from one of those particular articles that I learned about that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even, you know, being in the investment side for so many years, you know, I'd I'd been around those advisors who charge commission based, and I saw the evolution to the AUM model and things like that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of saw it with my own eyes.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, once you kind of put all the pieces together and try to figure out which model you want to proceed with, that's where I you know did a lot of the digging in to understand which was the best path for me.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So what was uh, I mean, was it was it like intimidating the idea of starting your own firm, like in the beginning?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously, you know, you've been at these larger companies, kind of got to see what that was like, but going off, starting something, never knowing exactly how that's going to go can definitely be intimidating in the beginning.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, did you kind of have like a game plan, a go-to-market plan?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what were your thoughts, you know, initially when you were getting ready to start the firm?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, like again, as somebody coming from more of like a tangential field where I worked with advisors closely, but I I wasn't necessarily working at a financial advisory firm.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: You understand a lot of what the job is, but like you can never fully understand what the job is until you sit in the seat.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say one thing that I learned is it's the the game is getting clients and it's a lot harder than you think it's gonna be.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, hope hoping as somebody that's spent a lot of time in the finance world, you you might think it it will be easier for you to get clients and maybe um you know, the the median new financial advisor that starts their own practice, but like I I don't I haven't found that to be true, nor have I seen much evidence that supports that, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about building trust and establishing that relationship with clients.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for me, I mean, I certainly had a game plan going into it with respect to like what is the marketing strategy, right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is it LinkedIn or blogs or a variety of other things, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have all of those items, but you also come to learn as you're going through the motions and sitting in the trenches that like marketing channels kind of wax and wane.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: What one marketing channel that works now might not work so well a year or two down the line, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of have your hand in a few of those different or the line casted in a few different ponds from a marketing standpoint, so you can kind of like um you know double down in the areas when they seem to be um paying off better than than others.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So which ponds have you fished in?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Which uh which are bad and which are good?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, like I would say a couple of years back, LinkedIn was very solid with respect to like even doing like cold outreach, because look, when you're a brand new advisor, you didn't come from another practice, you don't have like at least a small number of clients coming your way.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a couple of you know, friends and family sorts of relationships to kick me off, but like not that many, but with LinkedIn a couple of years back, you were more able to do cold outreach.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you did enough volume, you could probably get some leads.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I did I did close a couple of clients that way, but like fast forward to 2026 or even second half of 2025, like doesn't really work that well doing that anymore.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with all these AI tools, things like that, like the cold outreach on LinkedIn is like very unlikely, in my opinion, to work, even if your message is like super, super optimized and like you're hitting at a very acute pain point that people are going through.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: A la, hey, um, saw you got acquired by X company.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a bunch of um MA for employees at this other company that that same company acquired six months ago.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a webinar or something like that, or a bunch of other resources that might help you across that journey.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, barely got any response.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But when I did that for the first set of clients, like it it went over much better, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, I think to me that leads me to believe it was more of a hey, these people are just getting bombed on by outreach, that they have no other choice but to not respond to anyone.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, they it becomes a part-time job just sifting through all of these messages and figuring and choosing which ones to respond to.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you also have to remember that something like that, eventually, once people give up on that side of things, then if then then what's old becomes new again, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because eventually people that do the hour reach are, well, this this channel doesn't work.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Many people stop, then they're all of a sudden the supply of messages starts to go down, and maybe it starts working again in a few years.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: That might be wrong, but that's why you have to keep a pulse on the different channels and decide what is worthwhile to double down on today.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely weird.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I will say early on, like, yeah, messaging people worked a lot, then it was like content creation, and then different types of content were being rewarded, whether it was like copywriting for a while, then it was videos, now pictures kind of seem to be like the things that get the most traction.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I I would agree, and it it is like the adaptability and the ability to to change and kind of move with the times to be able to stay uh in front of people is is super important.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so you got some clients that way.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is kind of the idea for you as you're growing, as you're continuing to build the business?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where do you want to take this thing one day, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you want to have a bunch of people working for you?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you uh you know want to get to that enterprise level eventually, or is that like you know, crazy to you to even think about getting there?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the goal long term?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I I would say it's hard to definitively say today.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and and seeing what it takes to serve a client base well, especially with someone like me who you know has that holistic approach to the advisory practice.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what a lot of people say that, but what does it mean?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: It means kind of weaving in insurance and estate planning and kind of anything with a dollar sign that requires a lot of work, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that being said, I I would say relative to an advisor whose primary value add is investment management, like that is the most scalable part of the business, probably for most people.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the number of clients per advisor can generally be a lot higher in that particular case.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas in my case, where we're doing a lot of things that are not scalable at all, working through stock option exercise strategy, that's all like very case by case.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, naturally the average number of clients per advisor tends to be a lot lower.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, so in that vein, you know, I think the options are, you know, have a small lifestyle practice, which I don't think that's the way I will ultimately end up going, because I think there is merit and value to the to the end client, in my opinion, to being part of more of like a boutique practice, if you will.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do I ever see myself doing like an enterprise?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not, but I think the boutique practice makes a lot a lot of sense with respect to um you know having some of the backstopping for the client, business continuity, things like that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Anything anything can happen in life, as you guys know, being in the insurance industry, the whole point is well, nothing probably will happen, but if it does happen, it can be very acute fallout from it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think for me, ultimately, the the boutique model is likely the path I'll want to go.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how how does that come to fruition?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it means partnering or building up the team organically, TBD.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that's what I'm thinking as far as things stand right now.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very cool.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean you're fee only, but I know that you're also flat fee.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to touch maybe a little bit on your thoughts around flat fee and why you offer that?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say for me, being flat fee is probably the biggest competitive advantage I have.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what do I mean by that?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I think seeing folks with equity comp, many of whom come from the tech world, they many of them made their wealth in public markets.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of them kind of view the investment landscape as being more of a I want to be a public market investor, and I don't necessarily want to do anything too complicated from an investment standpoint.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, a lot of folks in that arena have many millions of dollars.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they become reluctant in some cases to pay the AUM fee, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's case by case.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some people will totally be happy to pay it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for us as a newer practice, that was like another angle to pursue in order to drum up business.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the sense that, you know, you guys have all heard the case for flat fee in the sense like it doesn't take twice as much work or three times as much work to manage a three million million households.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's probably some truth to that, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does it take no additional work?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Unlikely, but is it triple the work?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm sure there are cases where it is triple the work, so you can't definitively say with certainty.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's up to me to kind of build a service model that allows us to serve people with that sort of fee and still make it like profitable and semi-scalable for us, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh advisory work is never gonna be super scalable because it's like custom solutions work.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that means that it's on me as a flat fee advisor to make sure that we are not taking on clients that are going to you know require like immense levels of work to be done for the fee that we charge.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to try to thread that needle somehow.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So again, every every fee model has its own pros and cons.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for us, we think this one has more pros for us as a business and for our clients.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's on us ultimately to kind of make that um, you know, experience for everyone uh be the right one.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's that's a really good point.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when it comes to the business, I feel like certain people like to do certain things more than others, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like some people really like the aspect of growing the business, some people really like being in the weeds and like doing the planning.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Some people, you know, uh, I don't know if anybody likes the compliance necessarily.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but everybody's got different things that they kind of like more than others.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: So are there like places or areas within the business that you really enjoy spending your time?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe some where you're like, oh, this is just not my favorite thing to do, but I just have to suck it up and do it because it's part of having a business.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, like there are parts of like even the financial planning process that can become repetitive and mundane.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I sure I have an employee that helps me out with some of those aspects.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, um let's get in the insurance details, which are in all these declaration pages and get them entered into our financial planning software, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I could help somebody can help me out with it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: There are certain things in a financial plan that like only I want to touch.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, my clients only want me to touch.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um now, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you know, you you build up the team and the roster and people's capabilities, but at least out of the gate the first couple of years, you know, I I haven't necessarily found any of those domains to be like especially boring per se, because you know, as the advisor, you're like, you're building out the processes and procedures on how to like execute these things.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I'm sure there's scenarios down the line where I'm a little bit more hands-off in the plan creation process, but I will never be fully removed from that process.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because, in my view, that's what the clients are paying me for ultimately to have a good feel for what's going on there.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and not for nothing, when you're on a call with a client, being able to pull up your planning software and like efficiently navigate it, like gives them a lot of comfort, right?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: They they understand, like, okay, this person really knows how to utilize these tools um to kind of help me come up with the conclusions that I need to draw on these things.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean, like, do I like building the business side more?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I would say so.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's to me very interesting.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's gonna come with its own mundane aspects.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you get to hiring, things like that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not always the most exciting, but it's like very critically important.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And hiring the right people, I mean, hiring the right people, that's kind of the a good point, too, is like one of the best things that you can do, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you hire the wrong person, it can be a major setback.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're just like, oh, I just lost nine months of my life or like whatever it is, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you hire the the right person, it can make all the difference in the world.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were going about that, uh just to kind of touch on that for a second, like what was kind of your process of hiring?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: How did you know?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Was it like very formal?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Did you kind of know the person that you're going to hire ahead of time?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: What did that look like for you for those people that are wondering?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time I was it was more so like looking at um kind of like more like admin type uh person, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, to take some of the like the lower dollar value items off my plate.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh everything's important, but some things are more important, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So this what happens is some of those lower importance items, they fall down the list and you never get around to them, right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um but things that are like, hey, these marketing things that we want to pull together, like they're they're important, but they're not as important as serving the client or whatever it may be.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you but you don't want to let that stuff fall to the wayside either.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, kind of just like started um you know exploring some of these uh more like outsource admin um resources, things like that.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Spoke to some folks, and I ended up coming across um somebody through a person that I knew from like I was in this LinkedIn program a little a little while back, but this person he had started a like basically like uh outsourced talent agency.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to probably three or four of the people on his roster, and they were like head and shoulders above everyone else that I had spoken to, like really, really bright, talented.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, it was like you I'm sure you guys know with the people that you brought on with uh BC, it's like you kind of have like an intuition sometimes when you meet somebody and you know that they're gonna be a good fit, right?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you'll meet with somebody else and they were fine, but like I I don't know if they are the person we're seeking.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then eventually you might meet somebody and you're like, wow, they were like very impressive, and I would be foolish not to bring them on.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and and frankly, like a lot of other people on maybe on your podcast, maybe on others, I can't remember, but they say, Hey, like sometimes if you come across somebody that's just really great, like you should maybe just find a way to bring them in, right?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you guys listen to like guys like Alex Hermozy and those guys, like he oftentimes talks about that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like the hard part when you're a small business is trying to convince somebody who's great to actually come work for you, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the hard part because somebody great is a lot of options as a small business owner.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, can you provide them that career pathing and things like that?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to be able to articulate that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when you come across somebody great that's you know, willing and able to be um on your team, like probably should try to find a way to make that work out.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it goes back to the hire people, not positions thing.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I totally agree with that, you know, because with this person, I want them to be happy and engaged with the work they do for me.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to necessarily shove just the miscellaneous bin items that I don't want to do on them, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because the more buttons.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: They are, and the more engaged they are with the work, the better the output will be, and the more likely they will be to want to stick around for the long term, right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of the way I'm looking at it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I can always hire other resources to handle some of the other things that maybe um just didn't fit that well with that person's skill set.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's so critical.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm just thinking about Brock and I's own experience, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: With recruiting and retaining talent and things like that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's so, so, so important.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, so I mean, going forward, like how do you see like scaling the team, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like who would kind of be the next position or where do you see that next step?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I think probably like a pure admin type person would would be wise.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I mean, I I I utilize I'm I'm good about my inbox and things like that, but like look, there can probably be some high touch outreach to clients um that makes it feel more personalized and things like that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's some low-hanging fruit there that can be handled.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think just like a lot of little things, prop more process-oriented items, um, quarterly value ads, things like that, helping to uh kind of pull all the like initial drafts together, things like that, which would probably be pretty well suited to somebody in that seat.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I suspect that'll be the next seat that would be filled on my side of the equation.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but again, as as we've just discussed, like you you never know.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: You never know who you're gonna hear from, come across.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you hear from somebody where partnership opportunity makes a lot of sense.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, you know, partnerships easy to get into, very hard to get out of.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you never want to pursue that pathway fast.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a pathway that needs to be pursued very slowly and very diligently.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, uh that's very unlikely to be the next shooter drop for me, but but I guess you never know.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's sort of where where my mind is going around um like staffing and the team build-out.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so important too because you find that right person that can help with the a lot of the administrative tasks.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like Carmen on our team, I don't even know what we were doing before we had her.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she is uh she's like the glue, right?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like she just keeps everything together.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Carmen, can you remind me of this next week's like first thing in the morning I get the text?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's just the absolute best.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Peter and I often asked ourselves, like, what in the world were we actually doing before we had Carmen on the team?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's been literally life-changing.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's huge, right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even like uh just uh second set of eyes on everything is is huge.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know you don't want things slipping through the cracks, and like I'm sure it's been very much so 10x worth what what uh ultimately was.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like uh again, you know, as a small business owner, you you need to be smart about controlling expenses, but at your point, you know, it's like this is such a no-brainer that like you should just just do it sooner than later.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And at first it seems very daunting, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit you know, it's gonna become a one of your larger line items, right, in your budget.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, do I need it yet?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Should I just do it myself?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do I keep working?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Very tempting to um pinch the pennies.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then you set out a budget, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you find the right person and they want a little more.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's worth overpaying a little bit too, sometimes, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because talent is something.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Brock and I talk about it all the time.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like to hire somebody good in the United States, like 40, 50 grand is not gonna cut it anymore.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely not, definitely not at all.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I agree.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to motivate them, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh the best person in the world, if they're not motivated, might not be that great anymore.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, especially when it's like financial planning or like even insurance, like some of the intricacies, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like for them to really care, or like, hey, are you like reading this, right?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like to really have an employee because it's your responsibility as the business owner at the end of the day, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It will roll back to your EO.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, having somebody represent you is so, so, so important.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anything that you wanted to make sure um that you got out there, I guess for somebody that's just starting uh maybe their planning practice, Marcel, like what would be a piece of advice that you would give them that if you could have been talking to yourself a few years ago, you wish you would have known at the time.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I would say no matter how great season, whatever the case may be, you think you are, you know, when you see the kitsis um charts that say, hey, it's gonna take three years, like just believe it, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there may be those outlier cases where somebody blew up in the first year, but like that that is an outlier.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: People should not assume that'll happen to them.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, assume it'll probably take you three years and really be uh very thoughtful about what your marketing strategy is going to be out of the gate.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your marketing strategy is probably not going to be great on day one, but it'll get better and better each day.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: You should have at least three different channels that you pursue marketing in.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, these easier said than done, especially if you're a new business owner.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard to dump in a lot of time and energy into marketing.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like I would say the first couple of years, I I was spending probably half of my time on marketing type activities, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that be like creating content or um, you know, sending DMs or um doing intro calls, whatever it may be, you know, that's that's gonna eat up a lot of your time early on, as it should.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you're building up the book, what where else are you gonna be spending time?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you're spending time honing processes and procedure, you know, maybe some time on that, but if it's too big of a percentage, you know, you're maybe not necessarily spending your time where where it ought to be spent.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what's the best way if someone wants to reach out that they can get a hold of you or maybe learn more?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd say uh LinkedIn.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So follow me on LinkedIn.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I try to be good about posting a couple of times a week.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've been uh falling off a little bit on that lately, but I plan to ramp it back up here again soon.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think uh the algorithm hasn't been so friendly these days with a lot of a lot of content out there.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So but I still you know like to maintain a presence there, share my thoughts, and uh I think that's gonna be the best place to find me.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, certainly appreciate you taking the time, Marcel, and uh hope to do this again one day.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Brock, Peter.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot, guys.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, man.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, see you bet.