Latest / Becker’s Payer Issues Podcast / Advancing Personalized Care Through AI, Clinical Insights and Early Intervention with Dr. Stanley Crittenden

Transcript

Advancing Personalized Care Through AI, Clinical Insights and Early Intervention with Dr. Stanley Crittenden · Becker’s Payer Issues Podcast

• 0:02
  - Pharmacy has long been viewed as a cost
• 0:03
  - center, but that framing is starting to shift,
• 0:06
  - and chief pharmacy officers are driving the change.
• 0:09
  - Don Wright, pharmacy is one of the most
• 0:11
  - powerful financial and clinical levers the health system
• 0:14
  - has. The question is whether its leaders can
• 0:17
  - prove it, fund it, and scale it before
• 0:19
  - that window closes. Becker's third annual fall chief
• 0:23
  - pharmacy officer summit is where that case gets
• 0:25
  - built with 500 plus attendees,
• 0:28
  - 90 plus speakers, and three days of candid
• 0:30
  - executive level sessions on pharmacy's financial power, three
• 0:34
  - forty b sustainability,
• 0:35
  - specialty growth, automation, and earning real influence at
• 0:39
  - the top. You can earn up to 6.67
• 0:42
  - CE credits all while being in a room
• 0:44
  - full of peers solving the same problems you
• 0:46
  - are. Join us November fourth through the sixth
• 0:49
  - in Chicago.
• 0:50
  - Register on our events page at eckers hospital
• 0:52
  - review dot com by clicking on the events
• 0:54
  - tab in the upper
• 0:56
  - right.
• 0:57
  - Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the
• 0:59
  - Becker's Pay Your Issues podcast.
• 1:02
  - Thrilled today to be joined by a special
• 1:04
  - guest. Doctor Stanley Crittendon serves as the chief
• 1:07
  - medical officer at Cigna Healthcare. Doctor Critendon, thank
• 1:10
  - you very much for taking the time to
• 1:12
  - be with me on the podcast today.
• 1:14
  - Thank you, Jacob. Great to be here with
• 1:16
  - you, and thanks for having me. My name
• 1:18
  - is doctor Stanley Critendon. And as Jacob mentioned,
• 1:20
  - I serve as the chief medical officer of
• 1:22
  - Cigna Healthcare.
• 1:24
  - I'm a physician by training. Specifically, I'm a
• 1:26
  - double board certified
• 1:28
  - internal medicine doctor and nephrologist. I'm a kidney
• 1:31
  - doctor.
• 1:32
  - I've been a practicing doc for more than
• 1:34
  - twenty years,
• 1:35
  - where I've had the pleasure of working on
• 1:37
  - the front lines of both the provider side,
• 1:39
  - as a practicing nephrologist before transitioning
• 1:42
  - over into the payer side for population health
• 1:44
  - level work.
• 1:45
  - Throughout my career, I've been really laser focused
• 1:48
  - on improving clinical outcomes and quality outcomes for
• 1:50
  - patients.
• 1:51
  - As a CMO of Cigna Healthcare,
• 1:54
  - I oversee clinical strategy for for the company.
• 1:58
  - I lead teams that focus,
• 2:00
  - on functions like clinical guidance and care management,
• 2:03
  - All programs designed to help people,
• 2:06
  - connect with right care at the right time.
• 2:09
  - What really excites me lately about the work,
• 2:12
  - I'm doing here, I just joined the organization
• 2:14
  - recently,
• 2:15
  - is the opportunity to really connect people earlier
• 2:18
  - in their journey with the right clinical support
• 2:20
  - and doing it at scale.
• 2:23
  - We all know that health care can be
• 2:24
  - really difficult to navigate, and it's not getting
• 2:27
  - easier,
• 2:28
  - especially for someone who is facing
• 2:30
  - a complex or chronic condition
• 2:32
  - like cancer, like heart disease, like kidney failure.
• 2:35
  - And so a big part of my work
• 2:36
  - here,
• 2:37
  - and our teams is really kinda understanding
• 2:40
  - where the opportunities lie around earlier intervention,
• 2:43
  - and then really helping people coordinate their care
• 2:47
  - all aimed at achieving better clinical outcomes. So,
• 2:50
  - again, Jacob, thanks for letting me be here
• 2:51
  - with you.
• 2:53
  - Yeah. Absolutely, Stanley. And thank you very much
• 2:54
  - for taking the time out of what I
• 2:56
  - know is a busy schedule to talk with
• 2:57
  - our audience.
• 2:59
  - And I'd I'd love to give them a
• 3:00
  - better sense of of who you are and
• 3:02
  - and what led you up to this role
• 3:04
  - because as you mentioned, you're you're a practicing
• 3:06
  - physician who now serves as chief medical officer
• 3:09
  - at one of the country's largest health insurers.
• 3:11
  - And so
• 3:13
  - how has that clinical background shaped the way
• 3:15
  - that you think about leadership
• 3:17
  - in your role?
• 3:19
  - What have you learned about bridging that gap
• 3:21
  - between,
• 3:22
  - the exam room and now
• 3:24
  - the boardroom or or a large organization
• 3:27
  - of where you sit?
• 3:29
  - So, Jacob,
• 3:30
  - I've been a practicing doc for twenty years,
• 3:34
  - and
• 3:36
  - my foundation as a provider at the bedside
• 3:39
  - really has informed,
• 3:41
  - my leadership take and having the opportunity
• 3:44
  - to work,
• 3:45
  - at an organization like Cigna Healthcare where we
• 3:47
  - have the ability to touch
• 3:49
  - many, many
• 3:51
  - millions of of patients,
• 3:52
  - at scale,
• 3:54
  - really motivates me.
• 3:56
  - As a practicing physician,
• 3:58
  - I've had opportunity to sit in the exam
• 4:00
  - room
• 4:01
  - where
• 4:02
  - I am
• 4:04
  - surrounded by some of the sickest of the
• 4:05
  - sick,
• 4:07
  - and then recognizing that
• 4:09
  - sometimes the system is difficult to navigate.
• 4:12
  - And so at Cigna,
• 4:13
  - really excited about the work I get to
• 4:15
  - lead here where I get to bring that
• 4:18
  - true clinical presence to the work we do
• 4:20
  - at scale.
• 4:21
  - And I know we're gonna talk a little
• 4:22
  - bit more today about our care management expansion
• 4:25
  - and our care manager care management,
• 4:28
  - AI programs. But,
• 4:29
  - to your earlier point, it's really exciting to
• 4:31
  - me that I get to work at this
• 4:33
  - intersection now
• 4:34
  - of really seeing
• 4:36
  - the the the work we do help drive
• 4:38
  - impact at scale for such a great amount
• 4:40
  - of people.
• 4:41
  - And, again, it is just
• 4:44
  - incredible
• 4:45
  - the the the amount of work we put
• 4:48
  - in behind the scenes to really start to
• 4:50
  - reach members where they are. And, again, that
• 4:52
  - that's the work that I value from bringing
• 4:53
  - from the bedside to the boardroom here at
• 4:55
  - Cigna Health Care.
• 4:57
  - Yeah. Absolutely. And I know you all have
• 4:59
  - been very public over these last few years
• 5:01
  - of work you've been doing, the the sheer
• 5:02
  - amount of money that's being invested in breaking
• 5:05
  - down barriers to care, making the system,
• 5:08
  - easier for for your members to navigate. And
• 5:11
  - part of that last month, you all announced
• 5:13
  - an expansion of personalized care management capabilities
• 5:16
  - and you put a goal of roughly 200,000,000
• 5:19
  - in savings over the next three years coming
• 5:22
  - from that expansion.
• 5:23
  - So for the audience who might not be
• 5:25
  - familiar with this, can you walk us through
• 5:28
  - what's new here and why in your view
• 5:31
  - is clinical,
• 5:32
  - intervention earlier? Why is that becoming such an
• 5:35
  - urgent priority for insurers right now?
• 5:39
  - Yeah. So the challenge here for us is
• 5:41
  - that we recognize that complexity is rising in
• 5:44
  - health care,
• 5:45
  - costs are rising, and we recognize that sometimes
• 5:48
  - our customers and members don't know where to
• 5:50
  - turn. And so as health care has become
• 5:52
  - increasingly more complex, for patients, and like I
• 5:56
  - said earlier, especially for those who are managing
• 5:58
  - complex and chronic conditions,
• 6:00
  - they need specialty drugs. They need specialty care.
• 6:03
  - They may have behavioral health concerns.
• 6:05
  - And so we know that too many people
• 6:07
  - will often struggle with where to go, what
• 6:11
  - they need to do for help, and then
• 6:12
  - how to just navigate the system effectively.
• 6:15
  - And so as costs continue to rise across
• 6:18
  - the ecosystem,
• 6:20
  - we recognize how important it is
• 6:22
  - for our customers and members to have a
• 6:24
  - much better experience, and we know that experience
• 6:26
  - will lead to better clinical outcomes. So things
• 6:29
  - like helping
• 6:30
  - our customers and our patients get ahead of
• 6:32
  - avoidable and potentially,
• 6:34
  - life threatening complications,
• 6:36
  - unnecessary hospitalizations, unnecessary ER visits, and doing it
• 6:39
  - in a way where we get in front
• 6:41
  - of them earlier is so critical.
• 6:43
  - And the part for this that we recognize
• 6:45
  - that is truly,
• 6:46
  - critical is that clinical support.
• 6:48
  - And like I said, that clinical support
• 6:51
  - being most valuable when it is earlier in
• 6:53
  - the journey because you then will empower your
• 6:55
  - customers and your patients to really, you know,
• 6:58
  - walk in with a greater sense of confidence
• 7:00
  - around their health care and their journey. And
• 7:02
  - so the opportunity for health organizations
• 7:05
  - as a whole is for us to truly
• 7:08
  - make health care simpler,
• 7:09
  - more well connected, and make it so that
• 7:11
  - our members have easier access to care.
• 7:14
  - And I I think this just bears to
• 7:16
  - be repeated. Health care is not getting any
• 7:18
  - less complex,
• 7:19
  - and I believe it is our responsibility to
• 7:22
  - help,
• 7:23
  - navigate our customers and our patients through that
• 7:25
  - complexity.
• 7:26
  - And like I said, connecting them with the
• 7:28
  - support they need sooner before health care challenge
• 7:30
  - truly becomes a crisis. And so that's why
• 7:33
  - earlier intervention matters, and that's why we're making
• 7:34
  - these investments.
• 7:36
  - Yeah. No. Absolutely. Health care is not getting
• 7:38
  - any simpler. And it seems like across the
• 7:40
  - industry, that is really this is really a
• 7:42
  - direction we've seen most insurers going in terms
• 7:45
  - of investing more into predictive analytics to identify
• 7:49
  - at risk members sooner. And so
• 7:52
  - my my question for you said is what
• 7:54
  - signals are you actually acting on flag
• 7:56
  - someone before a serious health event? And I
• 7:59
  - ask that because, you know, we've talked with
• 8:02
  - population health executives
• 8:04
  - at large insurers about their efforts in years
• 8:06
  - past, and and we've heard about challenges around
• 8:09
  - false positives,
• 8:10
  - alert fatigue, tripping up,
• 8:13
  - population health efforts.
• 8:14
  - So so what are your thoughts there?
• 8:17
  - Yes. What I would say here is that
• 8:19
  - timing matters.
• 8:21
  - And
• 8:22
  - as a physician,
• 8:23
  - I know that
• 8:24
  - earlier engagement clearly changes the trajectory of a
• 8:27
  - person's
• 8:28
  - health care journey or outcomes.
• 8:30
  - And as we think about
• 8:32
  - triggers,
• 8:33
  - as a physician especially, I know that most
• 8:35
  - serious health conditions are preceded
• 8:38
  - by early warning signs and symptoms,
• 8:40
  - care gaps, unmet social needs.
• 8:43
  - And those are things that we're we're aiming
• 8:44
  - to identify earlier so that we can get
• 8:46
  - upstream. And we're using,
• 8:49
  - really great,
• 8:50
  - AI enabled predictive analytics tools to help us
• 8:52
  - do that. And so we're not just a
• 8:54
  - lot relying on,
• 8:56
  - some of the more kind of conventional claims
• 8:58
  - based algorithms, but combining that and enhancing that
• 9:00
  - with real time clinical data, clinical feeds. And
• 9:03
  - so think here things like ADTVs,
• 9:06
  - real time clinical data,
• 9:08
  - social and structural terms of health data. And
• 9:11
  - then because we know that early intervention intervention
• 9:15
  - matters,
• 9:15
  - using those data points powered by things like
• 9:18
  - AI,
• 9:19
  - helping us kind of enhance those predictive analytics
• 9:21
  - algorithms,
• 9:22
  - we're able to connect clinicians or connect our
• 9:24
  - patients with Cigna clinicians
• 9:27
  - before conditions become
• 9:29
  - worse.
• 9:30
  - And again, timing matters. We know that getting
• 9:33
  - in front of clinical conditions will often change
• 9:35
  - the outcomes in a good way. And so
• 9:37
  - as an example, I mentioned that I'm a
• 9:39
  - nephrologist. I'm a kidney doc.
• 9:41
  - We have algorithms now that help us identify
• 9:43
  - chronic kidney disease chronic kidney disease much earlier
• 9:46
  - in the disease state. And thereby, we're getting
• 9:49
  - in front of these folks before they have
• 9:52
  - more complicated journeys. And so we
• 9:56
  - can avoid the things,
• 9:57
  - like the need for dialysis, like the need
• 9:59
  - for transplant, potentially altogether,
• 10:01
  - by getting in front of folks earlier.
• 10:04
  - And then also too, we're helping to support
• 10:06
  - their,
• 10:07
  - their kind of experience and journey by helping
• 10:10
  - with things like avoidable ER usage and hospitalization.
• 10:13
  - So again, the goal here really is using
• 10:15
  - those
• 10:16
  - extra real time kinda data and analytics triggers,
• 10:19
  - combining that with,
• 10:21
  - AI to help us really move from a
• 10:23
  - more reactive kinda state to say, thing has
• 10:26
  - happened. Let's try to back up and chase
• 10:27
  - it to now we're being more proactive, getting
• 10:30
  - support in front of folks earlier. So I
• 10:32
  - think the bottom line here is that
• 10:34
  - the earlier we can get to someone
• 10:37
  - with those real time triggers I was talking
• 10:38
  - about with the augmented help of AI at
• 10:41
  - scale, we can bring some support to people
• 10:43
  - who need it much sooner. And I think
• 10:45
  - that's where the opportunity lies to really improve
• 10:48
  - their overall experience,
• 10:49
  - help them achieve better clinical outcomes and overall
• 10:51
  - better health. And then, of course, there's a
• 10:53
  - there's a downstream impact for employers for productivity
• 10:57
  - and and cost savings there. So excited about
• 11:00
  - this work for that reason.
• 11:02
  - Yeah. Absolutely. And I I wanna go off
• 11:04
  - of, something you just said there, Stanley, of
• 11:07
  - using AI as as augmented help. And I
• 11:10
  - think that's,
• 11:12
  - a a philosophy I'd like to ask you
• 11:14
  - about of we we've been hearing from physician
• 11:16
  - leaders like yourself of how to use AI
• 11:18
  - better to enhance and not replace
• 11:20
  - clinicians. And I I'd love to hear your
• 11:22
  - thoughts on that.
• 11:24
  - Where do you draw the line as a
• 11:25
  - as a practicing physician? What stays with you,
• 11:28
  - and and how do you build member and
• 11:30
  - and provider trust
• 11:32
  - as these tools continue to roll out, continue
• 11:34
  - to, expand in scope?
• 11:37
  - So
• 11:38
  - AI helps,
• 11:40
  - our clinicians and it helps support scale. And
• 11:42
  - so what I'll say here is that AI
• 11:44
  - helps our clinicians and us identify
• 11:48
  - patterns and opportunities
• 11:50
  - that we have probably otherwise missed,
• 11:52
  - that are hard to detect, especially across large
• 11:55
  - populations.
• 11:56
  - I mentioned some of those, in the prior
• 11:58
  - response around how we think about using extra
• 12:02
  - layers of feeds and data to actually feed
• 12:03
  - into those engines. And it's those advanced analytics
• 12:07
  - powered by AI that will really help us
• 12:08
  - pinpoint
• 12:09
  - which customers will benefit the most from our
• 12:12
  - early engagement outreach.
• 12:13
  - And so that AI improves efficiency, it improves
• 12:16
  - prioritization.
• 12:18
  - It then allows our clinicians to focus their
• 12:20
  - expertise really on where they can make the
• 12:22
  - greatest impact.
• 12:24
  - And so I'll just say this too.
• 12:26
  - AI technology as a whole serves as the
• 12:29
  - support tool.
• 12:30
  - It's never a replacement for clinician judgment
• 12:33
  - or clinicians.
• 12:35
  - My teams will hear me say this all
• 12:37
  - the time. Health care is a business about
• 12:38
  - people taking care of people.
• 12:40
  - Human empathy, human expertise,
• 12:43
  - the patient relationship still remains an essential part
• 12:46
  - of our care and case management capabilities.
• 12:50
  - And so
• 12:51
  - AI helps us
• 12:52
  - find the opportunities.
• 12:54
  - It helps us do it more laser focused.
• 12:56
  - It'll help us
• 12:57
  - intervene sooner for that reason.
• 12:59
  - But our clinicians,
• 13:02
  - our humans ultimately make those human connections and
• 13:05
  - those final clinical decisions.
• 13:07
  - And so in other words, technology,
• 13:09
  - AI, etcetera, amplifies that human experience,
• 13:13
  - but it never replaces it as a as
• 13:14
  - a core loss here.
• 13:16
  - Yeah. Absolutely. AI amplifies the human experience. So
• 13:19
  - I think it's a really great way to
• 13:21
  - put it.
• 13:22
  - And also I'd love to ask you a
• 13:24
  - little bit about as we're staying on the
• 13:26
  - conversation of the industry
• 13:28
  - further integrating this technology into workflows,
• 13:31
  - I mean, the clinical workflows. I think the
• 13:34
  - payer leaders listening in on this call
• 13:36
  - have heard, you know, that
• 13:38
  - the new program will improve outcomes at a
• 13:41
  - lower cost.
• 13:43
  - Two to three years from now when we're
• 13:45
  - talking about this new,
• 13:47
  - personalized care management initiative or the expansion of
• 13:50
  - it, What specific metrics will tell you that
• 13:53
  - this program works in your mind,
• 13:55
  - for for for patients, for clinicians,
• 13:58
  - for affordability,
• 13:59
  - for other people you serve?
• 14:01
  - Yeah.
• 14:02
  - So
• 14:03
  - personalization
• 14:04
  - is always the goal here, and,
• 14:07
  - health care is always moving
• 14:09
  - health care should always be moving toward a
• 14:11
  - more personalized, proactive, kinda connected model.
• 14:15
  - And, you know, as a physician leader, I
• 14:18
  - think that is such a great thing.
• 14:20
  - Better data, better insights,
• 14:23
  - all of these things will help us tailor
• 14:25
  - our interventions,
• 14:27
  - to specific customer needs. And so I think
• 14:30
  - the future of care management,
• 14:32
  - to your point, will be increasingly focused on,
• 14:35
  - you know, how do we anticipate those needs?
• 14:37
  - How do we
• 14:38
  - connect those dots? How do we then report
• 14:40
  - out what that looks like?
• 14:42
  - And like I said earlier, the goal for
• 14:44
  - us is truly, like, again, get upstream,
• 14:47
  - get there earlier. We know that timing matters.
• 14:51
  - Get the right outcome.
• 14:52
  - And then I think our success will be
• 14:54
  - measured by what are those clinical outcomes. And
• 14:56
  - so think here hard clinical outcome points. And
• 14:59
  - so as a population health expert,
• 15:01
  - I am, you know, now moving away from
• 15:03
  - just an activity of saying I connected with
• 15:05
  - a member, but now saying, did my cohort
• 15:08
  - of members have
• 15:09
  - a decrease in disease burden? And so we'll
• 15:11
  - take diabetes as an example.
• 15:13
  - Does my cohort does my patient panel now
• 15:16
  - have less diabetes or more well controlled diabetes?
• 15:19
  - Are they living longer with diabetes?
• 15:21
  - Do they have a better experience? How are
• 15:23
  - they satisfied with, like, you know, how are
• 15:25
  - they perceiving the health care system? So those
• 15:27
  - are all metrics that we measure here in
• 15:29
  - terms of how we think about experience. And
• 15:31
  - then finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't
• 15:33
  - talk about affordability.
• 15:34
  - All of this truly is to get us
• 15:36
  - to a more affordable
• 15:38
  - state.
• 15:38
  - And, again, timing matters. If you get in
• 15:41
  - front of diseases before they are exacerbated, they
• 15:43
  - cost less to manage, and not just, like,
• 15:46
  - your cost of drugs or medications, hospitalizations,
• 15:49
  - but there's an experiential cost,
• 15:51
  - missed work, productivity
• 15:54
  - in your community, etcetera. So those are all
• 15:56
  - ways that we think about measuring outcomes.
• 15:59
  - And just to put a plug in for
• 16:00
  - some of the work our team here is
• 16:01
  - doing,
• 16:03
  - at Cigna,
• 16:05
  - we we have about 1,200 or so
• 16:08
  - clinicians here. So that includes, like, nurses, case
• 16:10
  - managers, behavioral health specialists. And And those are
• 16:13
  - all the folks that get in front of
• 16:14
  - our customers faster with some of these new
• 16:16
  - deployed,
• 16:17
  - AI capabilities.
• 16:18
  - And in terms of, additional proof points,
• 16:21
  - we've expanded now our kind of patient reach
• 16:24
  - by being able to support 20% more customer
• 16:26
  - identifying and therefore supporting 20% more customers,
• 16:30
  - who have some of these kind of early
• 16:32
  - warning emerging or high complex diseases that now
• 16:34
  - we can get in front of. That is,
• 16:36
  - of course, driving an affordability
• 16:39
  - impact. And so we know from even our
• 16:40
  - programs here at at Cigna, customers who are
• 16:43
  - engaged with us in our care and care
• 16:45
  - and case management programs,
• 16:47
  - are expected to reduce medical costs by average
• 16:50
  - about $2,000
• 16:52
  - per year per member.
• 16:53
  - And so that's a fairly significant savings
• 16:56
  - over time,
• 16:58
  - if you kinda do the num do the
• 17:00
  - math there.
• 17:01
  - And then finally, I mentioned that customer satisfaction
• 17:03
  - is always a way that we should think
• 17:04
  - about measuring how these care and care and
• 17:07
  - case management programs combined with some of the,
• 17:10
  - augmented AI capabilities,
• 17:12
  - how are they performing? And so we have
• 17:14
  - 95%
• 17:15
  - customer satisfaction ratings here. So these are always,
• 17:18
  - I think, about how we measure
• 17:20
  - the impact of the work we're doing. So
• 17:22
  - just a few few proof points from even
• 17:24
  - our experience at Cigna so far earlier in
• 17:26
  - early in this process.
• 17:28
  - Well, I I really appreciate all the detail.
• 17:30
  - Truly, it's it's super helpful for our listeners.
• 17:32
  - And in advance, Stanley, I mean, we we've
• 17:35
  - touched on a lot. There's a lot going
• 17:36
  - on at Cigna,
• 17:38
  - under under your leadership. And so
• 17:40
  - you've got the ears of a lot of
• 17:42
  - other colleagues and
• 17:45
  - insurance and hospital leaders from all over the
• 17:46
  - country listening in. What What else do you
• 17:48
  - wanna share with them? Any other last tips
• 17:51
  - or advice you offer?
• 17:54
  - I would just say here,
• 17:56
  - ultimately, the work
• 17:58
  - that we're doing,
• 17:59
  - is about
• 18:01
  - helping
• 18:01
  - people get to the right care at the
• 18:03
  - right time.
• 18:04
  - And those of us who work at the
• 18:06
  - intersection of,
• 18:07
  - you know, bedside, population health, payer work at
• 18:11
  - scale, we we know that timing matters.
• 18:14
  - We also know that technology,
• 18:16
  - is our friend. It helps us do this
• 18:18
  - work better and at scale. And so think
• 18:20
  - here, how do we deploy AI to help
• 18:22
  - us do that work better at scale?
• 18:24
  - But I think the real story here is
• 18:25
  - that the impact
• 18:27
  - that we're having here is still driven by
• 18:29
  - our people, our clinicians,
• 18:31
  - and that impact is driven because our people
• 18:34
  - have better tools to help us reach people
• 18:35
  - early in our journey. So
• 18:37
  - timing matters. Our people matter.
• 18:40
  - Megan, it's a great place to leave things.
• 18:42
  - Doctor Crittendon, I can't thank you enough for
• 18:44
  - taking the time to chat with us, for
• 18:46
  - sharing your insights with our listeners. We really
• 18:49
  - appreciate you doing so. Thank you. Thank you.
• 18:51
  - Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.
• 18:53
  - Absolutely. And to our listeners, if you'd like
• 18:55
  - to listen to more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare,
• 18:58
  - you can visit beckershospitalreview.com.