Latest / The Breakfast Club / Best of full interview: Abby Phillip Talks Jesse Jackson, CNN NewsNight, Cam'ron, Trump, Kamala, Cancel Culture + More

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Best of full interview: Abby Phillip Talks Jesse Jackson, CNN NewsNight, Cam'ron, Trump, Kamala, Cancel Culture + More · The Breakfast Club

0:01
Speaker 1: Every day up the Breakfast Club.
0:05
Speaker 2: Y'all dun yep's the World's most Dangerous Morning to show
0:08
Speaker 2: to Breakfast Club Charlamagne to God, Jess Hilarious DJ Envy
0:11
Speaker 2: Envy is out today. But Lauren Loro says, and we
0:14
Speaker 2: have a very special guest man, the host of my
0:16
Speaker 2: favorite cable news UH network show, Abby Phillips, is here morning.
0:24
Speaker 2: I say, Phillips is Philip, Abby Phillip.
0:26
Speaker 3: That's okay. Though everybody to everybody puts an ess on it.
0:30
Speaker 3: It's cool. It does not bother me. My friend says,
0:33
Speaker 3: it's a sign of respect in our community like Salinas.
0:38
Speaker 1: That what people name. Why do we do that?
0:42
Speaker 3: It sounds right, it feels right.
0:44
Speaker 1: How are you?
0:45
Speaker 3: I am good? I'm good. I'm hanging in there.
0:48
Speaker 2: New book out, A Dream Deferred Jesse Jackson in the
0:51
Speaker 2: Fight for Black political power. I'm from South Carolina, so
0:55
Speaker 2: I completely understand Jesse Jackson, and you know why he
0:59
Speaker 2: deserves all all the praise. But why did you decide
1:01
Speaker 2: to write this book?
1:03
Speaker 3: I think that there are a lot of people who
1:06
Speaker 3: have no idea that he ran for president, honestly, and
1:10
Speaker 3: they don't and if they know that he ran for president.
1:12
Speaker 3: They probably don't have any idea that he came second
1:19
Speaker 3: in the Democratic nomination in nineteen eighty eight, so he
1:21
Speaker 3: was the runner up. And before Obama there was Jesse Jackson.
1:27
Speaker 3: And I think this chapter really is more important now
1:31
Speaker 3: than ever. Back in the eighties, I think people didn't
1:34
Speaker 3: have any way to know that what Jesse Jackson did
1:37
Speaker 3: really mattered in the long term. But it clearly mattered
1:41
Speaker 3: because had he not run, Obama wouldn't have been the nominee.
1:45
Speaker 3: Had he not run, I don't know that you would
1:47
Speaker 3: have like a Bernie Sanders or an AOC or even
1:50
Speaker 3: a Zoron Mamdani. I mean, these are people who are
1:53
Speaker 3: running on basically the same platform that Jesse Jackson ran on,
1:58
Speaker 3: and he really transformed democratic politics, not to mention registering
2:03
Speaker 3: millions of voters and putting in place a lot of
2:07
Speaker 3: the people that you know, people like Donna Brazil, Minon Moore,
2:10
Speaker 3: and so many others who are leaders in the Democratic Party,
2:14
Speaker 3: they are all there because of Jesse Jackson.
2:17
Speaker 4: What I was going to say in the back of
2:19
Speaker 4: your book the praises, Yeah, you say, like the first
2:22
Speaker 4: one talks about how he doesn't how Jesse Deson doesn't
2:24
Speaker 4: get credit for how influential on American politics as he was.
2:28
Speaker 4: What credit do you want people to give him after
2:30
Speaker 4: they read your book?
2:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that he he transformed the
2:36
Speaker 3: structure of the Democratic Party that made it easier for
2:39
Speaker 3: outsiders to come in and disrupt the system. I think
2:43
Speaker 3: that's really what his original goal was. When he was
2:46
Speaker 3: running for president, he was basically saying to the Democratic Party,
2:49
Speaker 3: you have to take us seriously as black voters, and
2:53
Speaker 3: not just black voters, but all kinds of other voters.
2:56
Speaker 3: He brought Arab Americans into the voting process. He insisted
3:01
Speaker 3: on women being on the ticket. That's why Democrats had
3:05
Speaker 3: a woman on the ticket in nineteen eighty four. He
3:08
Speaker 3: insisted on Asian Americans being part of the political process.
3:13
Speaker 3: So what he was arguing for was a political system
3:18
Speaker 3: that actually takes everybody seriously. And I do think we're
3:22
Speaker 3: closer to that now than we were in the eighties,
3:25
Speaker 3: and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But
3:27
Speaker 3: I also think, you know, especially younger folks who look
3:31
Speaker 3: I count myself among them. I was born three weeks
3:34
Speaker 3: after the eighty eight campaign was over, right, So but
3:40
Speaker 3: I'm just saying like, this is not about any kind
3:43
Speaker 3: of judgment about what you know or don't know about
3:45
Speaker 3: this particular chapter of history. But it's important to know
3:50
Speaker 3: that Jesse Jackson, like so many other of these leaders
3:55
Speaker 3: in our history, they had a lot of chapters and
3:58
Speaker 3: this was a really significant I mean, he ran for
4:01
Speaker 3: president two times. He almost won the nomination. During one
4:06
Speaker 3: of these campaigns, he went to Syria and Cuba and
4:10
Speaker 3: brought prisoners of war back to the United States. I mean,
4:14
Speaker 3: he was doing a lot of things that if candidates
4:17
Speaker 3: were doing that today, we would be like, what is
4:20
Speaker 3: that real? But he doesn't get a lot of credit
4:23
Speaker 3: for and I think a lot of it is because
4:25
Speaker 3: it was the first time that so many Americans had
4:27
Speaker 3: ever seen a black man try to do what he did.
4:31
Speaker 3: And I think it's important to remember how much of
4:33
Speaker 3: a you know, just a barrier breaker he was at
4:36
Speaker 3: that time.
4:37
Speaker 2: What was the single biggest myth or misconception you discovered
4:41
Speaker 2: in your reporting about either of those campaigns that you
4:43
Speaker 2: wanted to.
4:44
Speaker 3: Correct that he was only running as a black candidate
4:47
Speaker 3: for black voters. I think that's the biggest misconception. He
4:52
Speaker 3: was obviously very interested, motivated by the desire to make
4:58
Speaker 3: sure that black people utilize their power, not just cast
5:03
Speaker 3: a ballot, but had leverage to get changes on the platform,
5:07
Speaker 3: policy things that mattered to their day to day lives.
5:11
Speaker 3: But he was also in Missouri with white farmers. He
5:16
Speaker 3: was also in San Francisco with Asian American activists. That's
5:22
Speaker 3: why he called it the Rainbow Coalition. I think people
5:25
Speaker 3: remember him as being the candidate for black people, but
5:28
Speaker 3: he actually brought, as he said he would, a rainbow
5:33
Speaker 3: of people into the political process, and he does not
5:37
Speaker 3: get very much credit for how much appeal he had
5:40
Speaker 3: among white voters, especially when he ran the second time around.
5:44
Speaker 3: There's this great picture I have in the book of
5:47
Speaker 3: him at a rally with a bunch of white farmers
5:51
Speaker 3: in their overalls and they all have paper bags on
5:54
Speaker 3: their heads with their eyes cut off because they're trying
5:58
Speaker 3: to hide their faces from the Feds who were trying
6:00
Speaker 3: to basically foreclose on their farms. And there's Jesse Jackson
6:04
Speaker 3: in the background with all of these white people rallying
6:08
Speaker 3: alongside them. And that's, for me, an iconic photo that
6:13
Speaker 3: kind of shows that he had the same energy for
6:17
Speaker 3: our community as he did for all of those other people,
6:21
Speaker 3: and he was arguing to them, look, we have the
6:24
Speaker 3: people who are trying to divide us along racial lines,
6:27
Speaker 3: are trying to make you think that you don't have
6:29
Speaker 3: as much in common as a working class black person,
6:32
Speaker 3: and that's a lie. And a lot of people diminish
6:36
Speaker 3: that part of his campaign because it's easier to sort
6:39
Speaker 3: of just put him in a box of he was
6:41
Speaker 3: just a black candidate for black.
6:42
Speaker 2: People when we fell short, because you know, you talk
6:44
Speaker 2: about a lot in the book about the unlikely coalition
6:46
Speaker 2: he put together.
6:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems unlikely back then, but.
6:48
Speaker 2: Now it's like the norm, right, exactly the President Obama
6:51
Speaker 2: did or what BP tried to do.
6:53
Speaker 1: I mean all candidates try to do it. Where did
6:55
Speaker 1: he fall short? Back then?
6:56
Speaker 3: You think there were a lot of things that happened.
6:59
Speaker 3: I think some of them were his own mistakes, and
7:01
Speaker 3: I write about those in the book. I mean, he
7:04
Speaker 3: had a very big controversy with the Jewistler. Yeah, he
7:08
Speaker 3: used a slur against Jews in private and then it
7:12
Speaker 3: became public and he had a hard time figuring out
7:17
Speaker 3: how to deal with it and was slow in addressing it,
7:20
Speaker 3: and that really dogged him, especially for the nineteen eighty
7:23
Speaker 3: four campaign, but it had an impact on eighty eight two.
7:26
Speaker 3: I think the other part of it was that he
7:32
Speaker 3: was a true outsider candidate. He had almost no establishment support.
7:37
Speaker 3: You know, he was like what Bernie Sanders was in
7:40
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, where nobody wanted to touch him among establishment Democrats,
7:46
Speaker 3: and so it was harder for him to build a
7:48
Speaker 3: real campaign that had the infrastructure that he needed to
7:52
Speaker 3: take advantage of the momentum when he did encounter momentum.
7:57
Speaker 3: But I would say the other thing is that he
7:59
Speaker 3: was completely he discounted as a candidate. I mean I
8:03
Speaker 3: went back and I read virtually everything that was written
8:07
Speaker 3: about Jesse Jackson in those two campaigns, and the way
8:10
Speaker 3: they talked about him as if he was a gadfly
8:13
Speaker 3: candidate is you know, they really did not take him
8:17
Speaker 3: seriously in the media, and back in that time, there
8:20
Speaker 3: was no way to bypass the mainstream media. And I
8:23
Speaker 3: do think a lot of times if he were running today,
8:27
Speaker 3: I mean, he was such a master of the press,
8:32
Speaker 3: of narrative, of really breaking through, but there was no Internet,
8:37
Speaker 3: and if he had had that, I think it would
8:38
Speaker 3: have been a different story because so much of his
8:41
Speaker 3: message just never got to people.
8:43
Speaker 1: That's a lot of the critique he gives to too.
8:45
Speaker 2: A lot of people say that he was just an
8:47
Speaker 2: ambulance chasers to seek publicity, Like you know what, there
8:50
Speaker 2: is an infamous story about how he wiped Martin's blood
8:54
Speaker 2: on his shirt.
8:54
Speaker 1: I don't know if that is.
8:55
Speaker 3: Even that's in the book. Look so read. I mean
8:58
Speaker 3: you should. That part of his story is and I'm
9:02
Speaker 3: glad you brought it up. It's important because that is
9:06
Speaker 3: the double edged sword of Jesse Jackson was that he
9:10
Speaker 3: was a chaser of attention of cameras. He loved having
9:16
Speaker 3: a microphone in his face, and it was both a
9:19
Speaker 3: gift and a curse. He used it extremely well for
9:22
Speaker 3: decades and decades, and it made him one of the
9:26
Speaker 3: most famous people in this country for a time. But
9:29
Speaker 3: at the same time, it rubbed a lot of people
9:31
Speaker 3: the wrong way, including black people. That yes, but yeah,
9:35
Speaker 3: in some cases, especially black people were There are a
9:39
Speaker 3: lot of stories in the book about why all of
9:42
Speaker 3: these people that he came up with in the civil
9:45
Speaker 3: rights movement, all these elected political leaders who were you know,
9:49
Speaker 3: they ran in the same circle. Some of them were
9:50
Speaker 3: his friends, did not endorse his campaigns, and it was
9:55
Speaker 3: for a myriad of different reasons. But I do think
9:59
Speaker 3: that a lot of people were rubbed the wrong way
10:02
Speaker 3: by his constant attention seeking or it seemed to be
10:07
Speaker 3: attention seeking. And I think that even while you can
10:11
Speaker 3: recognize how important he was as a figure, it's like
10:14
Speaker 3: all of these people, they're all flawed in some really
10:20
Speaker 3: profound ways, but especially in this particular way. I mean,
10:24
Speaker 3: any person who runs for president has a massive ego,
10:29
Speaker 3: has a massive desire for attention, and he fits into
10:33
Speaker 3: that category like a lot of these other guys.
10:36
Speaker 2: I don't mind it, though, because you know, we say
10:38
Speaker 2: now one of the Democrats' biggest problems is not knowing
10:42
Speaker 2: how to message. Yeah, not knowing how to communicate, not
10:44
Speaker 2: knowing how to connect with people. Jesse did not have
10:46
Speaker 2: that problem. He did not.
10:47
Speaker 3: He was a master connector. I mean, he really was,
10:51
Speaker 3: and I do think he probably got more dogged for
10:53
Speaker 3: it than he deserved because that skill was so rare
10:58
Speaker 3: at the time and it's rare now. I mean, he
11:02
Speaker 3: was a black man in the eighties filling up stadiums
11:06
Speaker 3: of fifteen twenty thousand people. There are many candidates right
11:10
Speaker 3: now to this day that absolutely cannot do that, and
11:15
Speaker 3: he was able to do it because he had charisma,
11:19
Speaker 3: he could deliver a speech, he could connect with people
11:22
Speaker 3: who were otherwise not that interested in him as a candidate.
11:27
Speaker 3: And look, it's a skill, it's a particular gift. And
11:33
Speaker 3: I think that gift was completely you know, it was
11:36
Speaker 3: just kind of ignored at the time. And I think
11:39
Speaker 3: we understand now how rare that is. People like Obama
11:42
Speaker 3: have it, people like Donald Trump have it, people like
11:45
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders have it, but not that many people have it,
11:50
Speaker 3: and he had it, and at that time it was
11:53
Speaker 3: just kind of like, well, he's not a serious candidate.
11:58
Speaker 5: And the opening of your book, you have a quote
12:00
Speaker 5: from Theodore Roosevelt right about criticism and.
12:05
Speaker 3: The man in the arena.
12:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, how do you think social media? Well, young people
12:10
Speaker 5: growing up in the social media area these days, how
12:12
Speaker 5: can he learn from a quote as strong as this one.
12:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:15
Speaker 3: I mean the quote speaks to the fact that the
12:22
Speaker 3: reason I chose it is because I think people often
12:27
Speaker 3: throw stones at people who are in the arena doing
12:30
Speaker 3: the work and getting bloodied up and muddied up by
12:37
Speaker 3: doing the work, because it's really easy to be on
12:39
Speaker 3: the outside and criticize, But by being in the arena,
12:44
Speaker 3: you are actually doing the thing, and it's messy and
12:51
Speaker 3: it doesn't require you to be perfect. And I thought
12:54
Speaker 3: that was a good quote that kind of describes Jesse Jackson.
12:58
Speaker 3: I wrote this book, and it paints the full picture
13:04
Speaker 3: of this man, in all his flaws and all his gifts.
13:08
Speaker 3: But the one thing you have to say about him
13:11
Speaker 3: is that he was in the arena. He was there
13:15
Speaker 3: at all these different junctures. He was involved in nineteen
13:18
Speaker 3: seventy two at the historic Black Political Convention in Gary, Indiana,
13:23
Speaker 3: where black people gathered together and asked themselves, how do
13:27
Speaker 3: we exercise our power? He was there in the eighties,
13:30
Speaker 3: he was there in the nineties, So he was there
13:32
Speaker 3: in all these moments. And I think it can be
13:35
Speaker 3: very easy to criticize those people who seem to be
13:39
Speaker 3: everywhere a little too much. But being in the arena matters.
13:42
Speaker 3: Actually getting up off your couch and going and doing
13:47
Speaker 3: something about what's happening in the world. Is something that
13:52
Speaker 3: very few people do, and when they do it, we
13:55
Speaker 3: should learn from them.
13:56
Speaker 1: Do you feel that way?
13:57
Speaker 2: Being one of the few black women on cable news
14:03
Speaker 2: with their own show, especially you, because you know, you
14:05
Speaker 2: have your own ringbow collision that you bring together every
14:08
Speaker 2: night with all of these different voices. Do you feel
14:13
Speaker 2: like you get a lot of that, a lot of criticism.
14:16
Speaker 3: Look, I want I don't want people to misunderstand this.
14:19
Speaker 3: I am not at all saying that I am at
14:21
Speaker 3: the caliber of people like Jesse or anybody else who's
14:26
Speaker 3: really putting their body on the line to make the
14:29
Speaker 3: world a better place.
14:30
Speaker 1: However, what you do is important.
14:32
Speaker 3: But I play a role, like we all have a role,
14:34
Speaker 3: and this is mine and I and and in a way, yeah,
14:38
Speaker 3: people are very easy to be like, well, she shouldn't
14:43
Speaker 3: give this person a platform, she shouldn't do this, she
14:45
Speaker 3: shouldn't do that. And I do think it's super easy
14:48
Speaker 3: to say that when you're just at home, like watching
14:51
Speaker 3: the clips on your phone. And this I've been covering
14:55
Speaker 3: politics a long time. This is a time in our
14:59
Speaker 3: like political life, where we have to really know what's
15:04
Speaker 3: going on, and we have to know what everybody is
15:08
Speaker 3: saying on all sides of the issue, because I don't
15:11
Speaker 3: think that ignorance has served anybody well. And particularly I
15:17
Speaker 3: get a lot of criticism from the left, from people
15:20
Speaker 3: who are like why does she have maga people on
15:23
Speaker 3: the show? And it's like, well, you should know what
15:27
Speaker 3: they are saying, because just so you know, half the
15:32
Speaker 3: country voted for Trump and for trump Ism, and it's
15:38
Speaker 3: not helpful to be completely unaware of what is happening
15:43
Speaker 3: in those media ecosystems. So I personally think it's super
15:48
Speaker 3: important and I want the debate, like we need to
15:55
Speaker 3: have that debate. I want it to be right there,
15:57
Speaker 3: out in the open. And I also think that it's
16:01
Speaker 3: important for people on both sides to practice being challenged,
16:07
Speaker 3: because what we've found on the show is that a
16:09
Speaker 3: lot of people are not used to being challenged, and
16:13
Speaker 3: when they have somebody literally staring them in the face
16:16
Speaker 3: saying I disagree with you, for some people, they're like
16:20
Speaker 3: really taken aback, Like they don't really know how to
16:23
Speaker 3: deal with that, how to counter it, how to be quick,
16:25
Speaker 3: how to respond. And I think that is a really
16:29
Speaker 3: important skill in our politics, that we can go back
16:33
Speaker 3: and forth on the issues and we can really hash
16:36
Speaker 3: it out. And I, you know, I'll take the criticism
16:40
Speaker 3: from all sides, but I am very proud of what
16:43
Speaker 3: we do because I think that very few people are
16:46
Speaker 3: willing to do it. Very few people are willing to
16:48
Speaker 3: take the chance of even being criticized, and I don't
16:54
Speaker 3: mind it, like that's part of the job.
16:56
Speaker 4: What about because I know with your show there's some
16:59
Speaker 4: moments that are like very hard hitting, right, what about
17:03
Speaker 4: when that becomes like too much for you? Because I've
17:06
Speaker 4: seen people step away from those debate style shows because
17:09
Speaker 4: it personally becomes too much and is triggering for them,
17:11
Speaker 4: especially for black women. How do you kind of cause
17:15
Speaker 4: you get back up and do it again the next day? Like,
17:17
Speaker 4: what is your.
17:18
Speaker 3: That's my responsibility. I unfortunately can't step away, but I
17:24
Speaker 3: understand when people do, and I actually think that is
17:27
Speaker 3: totally good and healthy. I think it's important to know
17:30
Speaker 3: your your limits. And you know what, the good news
17:34
Speaker 3: about me not being able to step away is that
17:37
Speaker 3: it's my show and I can draw the lines when
17:40
Speaker 3: I need to draw the lines. And if you watch,
17:43
Speaker 3: as I know you do, like you've seen the times
17:47
Speaker 3: when I've had to draw some lines at the table,
17:50
Speaker 3: And I don't do it that often because I want
17:54
Speaker 3: it to be not that common because when I do,
17:59
Speaker 3: it's like when you're you know, really tells you it's
18:03
Speaker 3: time to stop. That's kind of how I want it
18:06
Speaker 3: to be, where it's not like that happens all the time.
18:09
Speaker 3: But you know that when I've reached my limit, it's
18:12
Speaker 3: the end, that's the limit. And I think that's that
18:15
Speaker 3: I can because I'm the host. I can draw those
18:18
Speaker 3: lines around the kind of conduct that I will accept
18:23
Speaker 3: at the table. And I have control over who shows
18:26
Speaker 3: up and who doesn't. And so for me, I take
18:32
Speaker 3: that on the weight of having to show up every
18:36
Speaker 3: single day. But I don't discount any person saying I
18:41
Speaker 3: need to take a break. It's need, I need a moment,
18:44
Speaker 3: because I think that's actually healthy for all of us,
18:46
Speaker 3: that we we should take care of ourselves and our
18:50
Speaker 3: own well being even while we try to stay engaged.
18:54
Speaker 3: And I fully, I fully support that and and I
18:58
Speaker 3: and I also will say or that I think there
19:02
Speaker 3: are definitely people who crossed the line, and that's part
19:08
Speaker 3: of the dynamic that is not within our control. And
19:13
Speaker 3: and that's okay.
19:14
Speaker 1: I mean I think, well, look, I mean the.
19:16
Speaker 3: More the most maybe the most famous one was the well,
19:20
Speaker 3: yeah there was Jillian Michaels, but I you know, you know,
19:23
Speaker 3: I'll say, honestly, Jillian Michaels crossed the line in the
19:28
Speaker 3: sense that she said something that was kind of embarrassing
19:31
Speaker 3: and we addressed it, but we never said to her,
19:36
Speaker 3: you're not welcome back.
19:37
Speaker 1: And I don't think she crossed the line.
19:39
Speaker 3: I just think, yeah, that's her. She made a decision
19:45
Speaker 3: not to want to come back. But yeah, she The
19:49
Speaker 3: thing about that was that she actually was talking about
19:52
Speaker 3: something that was important for us for people to be
19:55
Speaker 3: aware of was actually happening. Because right after she said
19:58
Speaker 3: what she said about slavery and how it's overemphasized at
20:03
Speaker 3: museums and the Smithsonian guests who said the same thing
20:07
Speaker 3: the president. So if you had watched our show a
20:11
Speaker 3: couple of days before, you would have known what was coming.
20:14
Speaker 3: And it's not just that she said it, but the
20:16
Speaker 3: President said it, and then it actually became the policy
20:20
Speaker 3: that they're trying to implement at the White House. So
20:23
Speaker 3: I thought it was actually super important that that was
20:26
Speaker 3: put out there, because I think people were not aware
20:29
Speaker 3: of the extent to which slavery was the core thing
20:32
Speaker 3: that they were mad about in terms of how it
20:34
Speaker 3: was being represented in our museums. So she again, I
20:40
Speaker 3: think you're right. I don't think that we I just
20:42
Speaker 3: would describe that as crossing the line, but we addressed
20:45
Speaker 3: it as an important conversation that needed to be factually addressed.
20:50
Speaker 3: But there was another incident with a person who was
20:53
Speaker 3: on the show who said to another guest that a
20:56
Speaker 3: Muslim guest that their pager would go on to medi
21:02
Speaker 3: It was a reference to the Israeli they'd like put
21:07
Speaker 3: bomb materials in pagers of the houthy terrorists and they
21:11
Speaker 3: went off. And that was an actual line that was crossed,
21:16
Speaker 3: because you wishing death on a guest on the show
21:19
Speaker 3: is completely unacceptable. And he was told, and I said
21:23
Speaker 3: publicly on the show. He was not invited back. And
21:27
Speaker 3: so there are lines that are crossed, and I think
21:30
Speaker 3: people understand that I'll draw them when they need to
21:33
Speaker 3: be drawn, but I also think that we want to
21:36
Speaker 3: have real conversations. Sometimes they get a little bit messy,
21:41
Speaker 3: and that's okay, but I also think, you know, disrespecting
21:47
Speaker 3: people in a way that is inhumane, or you know,
21:52
Speaker 3: just there are some lines that we don't want to cross,
21:55
Speaker 3: and we'll draw those lines publicly and I'll let everybody
21:58
Speaker 3: know what's going on. But for the most part, we're
22:01
Speaker 3: not We're trying to encourage speech, not trying to squelch it.
22:05
Speaker 2: The thing that buzzed me out about your show is
22:08
Speaker 2: people will say, you know, they'll talk about Scott Jennings
22:10
Speaker 2: or the Kevin O'Leary's or you know the guy who
22:13
Speaker 2: said made the comments to Meddi Hussan. But you have
22:16
Speaker 2: Anna Kasparian on there, and Nina Turner and Teslin Figuero
22:21
Speaker 2: and Bakari Seller's and Tiffany Cross and Meddi Hassan and
22:24
Speaker 2: Michael Eric Dyson and Childswell, all of these powerful people
22:27
Speaker 2: with powerful voices who push.
22:29
Speaker 1: Back on all of that nonsense.
22:31
Speaker 2: I don't understand why nobody ever highlights that you have
22:33
Speaker 2: voices on TV that don't get on TV. Tesln figure
22:36
Speaker 2: is only they only put her own Fox movies, and
22:38
Speaker 2: it's only on the young Turns neverwork.
22:39
Speaker 1: They don't put these people on telephone.
22:41
Speaker 3: We look for people to bring on who bring a different,
22:49
Speaker 3: unique perspective. That's the whole idea, is that people like
22:54
Speaker 3: Anna and Teslin and others, when we bring them on
22:58
Speaker 3: the table, it's because we don't we don't want just
23:01
Speaker 3: like the typical talking head that you hear on television.
23:06
Speaker 3: Because I also think that what they do is they
23:08
Speaker 3: represent more people. They represent regular people and how they think.
23:13
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I love about the show,
23:16
Speaker 3: because I hear it from people when I go out
23:17
Speaker 3: into the country, is that they watch and when they
23:22
Speaker 3: hear something, regardless of what part of the political perspective
23:26
Speaker 3: they're on, they'll say, yeah, that's what I was thinking.
23:29
Speaker 3: And I want people to think that that their POV
23:33
Speaker 3: is their point of view is represented at the table
23:36
Speaker 3: in some way. And so yeah, we try to find unique, new, interesting, dynamic,
23:44
Speaker 3: energetic voices, people who are smart, people who can get
23:50
Speaker 3: in there in the conversation and are not passive. They're
23:53
Speaker 3: actively listening, they're actively responding, they're thinking on their feet,
23:57
Speaker 3: they're not just regurgitating talking points. We don't get there
24:01
Speaker 3: every single day, but that's the goal that we try
24:04
Speaker 3: to get at. And so yeah, we on both sides
24:08
Speaker 3: of the aisle, by the way, because we also look
24:12
Speaker 3: for fresh voices on the right, because I just think
24:15
Speaker 3: that there's people are tired of the same old, same old,
24:19
Speaker 3: the kind of talking past each other where you know,
24:22
Speaker 3: one person is saying one thing and then the other
24:26
Speaker 3: person is saying another and they're not ever responding to
24:29
Speaker 3: each other and the ideas that are put on the table,
24:33
Speaker 3: and we try to move past that because I think
24:37
Speaker 3: it's not that interesting to be doing that in this
24:41
Speaker 3: day and age. And what I am also really proud
24:43
Speaker 3: of is that we get into the actual issues. We're
24:46
Speaker 3: not just talking about the politics and how it's going
24:50
Speaker 3: to play with the right and how it's going to
24:51
Speaker 3: play with the left. I'm going to ask you who
24:55
Speaker 3: are tariffs really helping and who are they really hurting,
24:58
Speaker 3: And like we're going to talk about the actual issue,
25:01
Speaker 3: not just quote unquote how it plays, because I think
25:05
Speaker 3: that's kind of like a lazy way to approach real
25:07
Speaker 3: issues that have an impact on people's real lives. Nobody
25:11
Speaker 3: cares how it plays. They want to know how it's
25:13
Speaker 3: affecting their actual pocketbook.
25:18
Speaker 5: What you had dedicated this book to your daughter and
25:21
Speaker 5: your two parents. I wanted to ask you a question
25:24
Speaker 5: you said to my daughter, Naomi, who showed me?
25:26
Speaker 1: How?
25:26
Speaker 5: How did your daughter show you how? What you mean?
25:29
Speaker 3: I never knew how much I could do until I
25:33
Speaker 3: had my daughter. And I think I know a lot
25:36
Speaker 3: of mom's parents can relate to that that I was
25:44
Speaker 3: probably limiting myself before I had her because being a parent,
25:48
Speaker 3: you're like doing so much every single day, and there's
25:53
Speaker 3: nothing more motivating than your child. There is nothing that
25:59
Speaker 3: wakes me up up faster in the morning than my
26:02
Speaker 3: daughter and knowing that I have to get up and
26:05
Speaker 3: adam not only to put food on the table and
26:08
Speaker 3: a roof over her head, but to show her what
26:11
Speaker 3: it means to work really hard. And I started working
26:16
Speaker 3: on this book like two months before I found out
26:19
Speaker 3: that I was pregnant with her. It was kind of
26:22
Speaker 3: a surprise, yeah, and I was like, oh my god,
26:26
Speaker 3: what am I going to do? And then the morning
26:30
Speaker 3: sickness hit and then I was launching a show and
26:34
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know if I can do this,
26:37
Speaker 3: but I did. But I did it. And then when
26:40
Speaker 3: she was born and I was trying to raise a
26:45
Speaker 3: newborn as a first time mom and then trying to
26:47
Speaker 3: work on this book, the thing that kept me going
26:50
Speaker 3: was that I cannot quit on this for her. And so, yeah,
26:55
Speaker 3: she showed me how to do the things that I
27:00
Speaker 3: set out to do, and everything that I start, I
27:05
Speaker 3: finish because of her. Because that's what we have to
27:09
Speaker 3: do for our kids, is to like we are showing
27:11
Speaker 3: them the way and she watches me, and you know,
27:15
Speaker 3: she knows, like Mommy's going to a speech, Mommy's going
27:18
Speaker 3: to an event. You know, she like she really she
27:22
Speaker 3: clocks it. She recognizes everything that I'm doing, and it's
27:28
Speaker 3: in that brain somewhere. And I know that when ten
27:30
Speaker 3: years from now she's four, and now ten years from now,
27:33
Speaker 3: fifteen years from now, that's going to be her normal.
27:36
Speaker 3: And that's what I want.
27:39
Speaker 1: Is expensive, so.
27:43
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous out here to raise and educate a child.
27:50
Speaker 3: So yes, that is so powerful.
27:52
Speaker 1: I do love you shed light on that.
27:54
Speaker 3: For me, that's really dope.
27:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wanted to ask you to write when
27:58
Speaker 2: you did get the backlash from the Jillian Michael's thing.
28:01
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people making comments, and social media
28:04
Speaker 2: is one thing, but when the comments come from people
28:06
Speaker 2: you actually know, like whether it's other, whether it's prominent writer,
28:13
Speaker 2: how did that make you feel?
28:15
Speaker 3: I think it was disappointing because I I really hope
28:21
Speaker 3: that we understand how important it is for people to
28:27
Speaker 3: be free to say things that other people disagree with,
28:31
Speaker 3: because when the tables turn, we want that ability. And
28:35
Speaker 3: I also think it does not do us any favors
28:38
Speaker 3: to pretend like a lot of people don't agree with
28:43
Speaker 3: Jillian Michaels, and that it's an opportunity for us to
28:47
Speaker 3: correct the record, educate you, to educate, to inform, to
28:52
Speaker 3: put facts on the table. And I know, can I
28:57
Speaker 3: be real, I know black people who agree with Jillian Michaels.
29:00
Speaker 3: I've heard and not just recently. This is a her
29:03
Speaker 3: talking point about how slavery existed all in the world,
29:06
Speaker 3: and we overemphasize it here in the United States. I
29:09
Speaker 3: have had black people say that to me, you know,
29:13
Speaker 3: ten years ago, fifteen years ago. So it's not like
29:15
Speaker 3: this is a new talking point. She didn't invent this
29:18
Speaker 3: out of nowhere. So it's an opportunity for us to
29:20
Speaker 3: correct it. And I feel like people who if you
29:24
Speaker 3: call yourself a journalist, you should never I don't think
29:29
Speaker 3: we should be in the business of saying it would
29:32
Speaker 3: be better for us to just not hear the thing
29:34
Speaker 3: that we disagree with. It is an opportunity for us
29:38
Speaker 3: to do what we're supposed to do, which is to
29:42
Speaker 3: actually give people something real to counter it with, gives
29:47
Speaker 3: people facts to arm themselves with. That is what our
29:51
Speaker 3: job is as journalists.
29:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Andrew gillim say he never he said this.
29:54
Speaker 2: When we did it was the night of the election.
29:57
Speaker 2: Maybe it was a couple weeksly armament, but he was
29:59
Speaker 2: talking about in reference to your he said, I never
30:00
Speaker 2: want to be blindsided about what the other side is
30:04
Speaker 2: thinking ever.
30:05
Speaker 1: Again.
30:05
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then I think about that, and I also
30:08
Speaker 2: think about and think about somebody.
30:10
Speaker 1: Think about an eight year old child or a.
30:13
Speaker 2: Fifteen year old child that might be just up watching
30:15
Speaker 2: CNN one night or see that clip go viral. If
30:18
Speaker 2: there's nobody there to correct that woman Jillian in that moment,
30:22
Speaker 2: they might believe that too. They might take that information
30:24
Speaker 2: and run with it. So you need people there to educate.
30:27
Speaker 2: I don't know why they're upset because you platform both.
30:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and look, there's a whole As you know,
30:33
Speaker 3: the media is so fragmented right now. Everybody is consuming
30:37
Speaker 3: media in their own silence, and a lot of people
30:41
Speaker 3: on the left, liberals or whatever, they have no idea
30:45
Speaker 3: what's being said in those conservative ecosystems. And one of
30:51
Speaker 3: the things that we do is sort of try to
30:53
Speaker 3: merge those information lanes a little bit more so that
30:58
Speaker 3: we're actually hearing each other and so that you're not blindsided,
31:01
Speaker 3: because there's a whole other world that's happening over here
31:04
Speaker 3: that you don't even know about, and you don't find
31:06
Speaker 3: out about until people vote, and by that point it's
31:10
Speaker 3: too late. So there should be more of this happening
31:15
Speaker 3: where we hear each other. We're able to put fight
31:20
Speaker 3: fight if information with information, put facts facts against facts,
31:25
Speaker 3: and have people pick, based on their own judgment, what
31:29
Speaker 3: makes the most sense. And I trust people enough to
31:35
Speaker 3: do that. I have enough respect for other human beings
31:40
Speaker 3: that they can make decisions on their own. But I
31:42
Speaker 3: do think that it requires that we really understand what
31:45
Speaker 3: we're even talking about, and so I don't you know,
31:48
Speaker 3: I mean, look, it is a disappointing, yes, But I
31:51
Speaker 3: also think that many of the people who criticize what
31:55
Speaker 3: we do spend a lot of time just talking to
31:58
Speaker 3: other people who agree with them. And that's a choice,
32:01
Speaker 3: but it's not a choice that I'm making. And I
32:04
Speaker 3: think actually a lot of people want to know, They
32:08
Speaker 3: actually do want to know.
32:11
Speaker 4: How do you feel when people say that CNN is
32:13
Speaker 4: a network that just does what you just said you
32:16
Speaker 4: don't want to do, Like your show is different because
32:18
Speaker 4: you bring on these different voices but I've even seen
32:20
Speaker 4: people say that they feel like sometimes the other voices
32:22
Speaker 4: that are brought on are kind of brought on just
32:24
Speaker 4: because they have to be there, not because like anybody
32:27
Speaker 4: truly wants them there because CNN is known to be
32:29
Speaker 4: or people think CNN always leans one way.
32:31
Speaker 3: How do you feel about that it does? Well, mean, yeah,
32:33
Speaker 3: and it's your network, so yeah, I mean, well, look,
32:36
Speaker 3: I would say it's fair to say that that CNN
32:41
Speaker 3: we're not Fox News, but we're also not MSNBC. We're true,
32:46
Speaker 3: we're probably center left, and I think that has a
32:49
Speaker 3: lot to do with our audience, but we watch when
32:54
Speaker 3: you actually watch CNN, we have Republicans on every hour
33:00
Speaker 3: of the day, every single one, I'm pretty sure, maybe
33:06
Speaker 3: with very few exceptions, but virtually every hour of the day.
33:09
Speaker 3: So they're not always on in the context that we
33:13
Speaker 3: put them on. But we as a network have a
33:17
Speaker 3: diversity of viewpoints on the air, more so than our competitors.
33:23
Speaker 3: And so, I mean, liberal media is a criticism that
33:29
Speaker 3: I think we hear a lot, but there's also way
33:33
Speaker 3: more liberal media and way more conservative media, and so
33:37
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know, I don't put that much
33:40
Speaker 3: stock in it. I think it's I think it's it's
33:43
Speaker 3: a little bit a reflection of the cable news audience.
33:46
Speaker 3: But I also think that there are extremes on both sides,
33:49
Speaker 3: and we're not in the extreme, I.
33:52
Speaker 1: Think, real quick long.
33:52
Speaker 2: I think another thing is that y'all show conservatives who
33:55
Speaker 2: aren't necessarily maga like the se Cups of the world
33:58
Speaker 2: that Adam Kinsinger there is a range.
34:02
Speaker 3: Week I believed, well, no, no, not Yeah, he's on MSNEMAC.
34:06
Speaker 3: But there's there is a range to your point, and
34:09
Speaker 3: it's not just you know, there are mega conservatives. There
34:12
Speaker 3: are people like se and Melissa Fara who are sort
34:17
Speaker 3: of somewhat anti Trump Republicans. We have libertarian people, we
34:21
Speaker 3: have progressives, we have just establishment Democrats. There is a
34:27
Speaker 3: range of political views and we tried to have them
34:31
Speaker 3: represented in one way, shape or form. We have people
34:36
Speaker 3: who I cannot put them in a box. I don't like,
34:40
Speaker 3: I don't know how to describe their political views. We
34:43
Speaker 3: bring those people on, but we also bring on people
34:46
Speaker 3: who are just not you know. We have Roywood Junior
34:50
Speaker 3: on all the time. We have Wendell Pierce comes on,
34:53
Speaker 3: like we bring on people who are peers Yes, just
34:56
Speaker 3: people who are just insightful and smart, and you know,
35:01
Speaker 3: they're just interesting and they bring depth to the conversation
35:06
Speaker 3: and they put things on the table that regular that
35:09
Speaker 3: like the classic New York and DC types don't put
35:12
Speaker 3: on the table. And so I think that we are
35:16
Speaker 3: so much more multi dimensional than left and right, than
35:19
Speaker 3: Democrat and Republican, and that should be better reflected. And
35:24
Speaker 3: who talks on television?
35:26
Speaker 4: H you brought up a this was like a I
35:28
Speaker 4: think it was like a few weeks ago you were
35:30
Speaker 4: talking about cancel culture, and I saw people reacting to
35:32
Speaker 4: this too. You said that liberals need to take more
35:34
Speaker 4: honest for where cancel culture went wrong, and this was
35:38
Speaker 4: after Kimmel was pulled from air. Yeah, there's been a
35:41
Speaker 4: lot of conversation about if cancel culture is even a
35:44
Speaker 4: real thing at this point. Yeah, but where do you
35:46
Speaker 4: think the liberals went wrong with cancel culture? I think
35:50
Speaker 4: that there were some specific moments, you know, not just
35:57
Speaker 4: around race, by the way, but even around you know,
36:03
Speaker 4: around COVID, around all other things where whatever, Yeah, whatever
36:07
Speaker 4: you want to call it. I I'm not endorsing any
36:12
Speaker 4: viewpoints that are right or wrong, but I think it's
36:16
Speaker 4: asking the question should people be forced out of their
36:21
Speaker 4: jobs or you know, should the should the weight of
36:27
Speaker 4: sort of public opinion force people out of their livelihoods
36:30
Speaker 4: because of things that they say, maybe because of mistakes
36:33
Speaker 4: that they make.
36:33
Speaker 3: I think it is just a fair conversation to have, because,
36:37
Speaker 3: as we saw when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, you had
36:44
Speaker 3: people making comments on Facebook about how they didn't like
36:48
Speaker 3: what he said and then losing their jobs over it.
36:53
Speaker 3: The government pulled people's visas and revoked their citizenship over
37:02
Speaker 3: comments like that, and I just think globally, look, I
37:05
Speaker 3: think one of the criticisms of me making that point
37:08
Speaker 3: was that even long before this, there was cancel culture
37:13
Speaker 3: in the eighties and the nineties, and I think that's
37:16
Speaker 3: one hundred percent true. But shouldn't we evolve to a
37:19
Speaker 3: point where we don't do this kind of thing anymore,
37:22
Speaker 3: where we think really hard about what is the bar
37:26
Speaker 3: for us to say you should be run out of
37:31
Speaker 3: society for something that you said, for an opinion that
37:35
Speaker 3: you have. And I think that's a fair question to ask. Look,
37:40
Speaker 3: I don't think we should be operating based on what
37:44
Speaker 3: was done to us in the past, because I think
37:48
Speaker 3: if we do that. We're just it's like a ball
37:50
Speaker 3: rolling down a hill. We're only going to dig ourselves
37:53
Speaker 3: deeper and deeper into a hole that we cannot get
37:55
Speaker 3: out of. And I think every single one of you
37:57
Speaker 3: would want to be able to say I disagree with X,
38:01
Speaker 3: Y and Z person and not lose your job over it. Absolutely,
38:04
Speaker 3: So that's the only point I was making that the
38:08
Speaker 3: principle here is not that we want to be able
38:11
Speaker 3: to do what they did to us. The principle is
38:13
Speaker 3: that people ought to be allowed to say things that
38:16
Speaker 3: other people disagree with without risking losing their livelihood and
38:21
Speaker 3: their jobs over an opinion or even a mistake. That
38:27
Speaker 3: sometimes people make mistakes, they say things that they regret,
38:33
Speaker 3: and people should be allowed to make mistakes and atone
38:38
Speaker 3: for them without their lives being completely ruined forever. I
38:42
Speaker 3: think we would want that for us, and I think
38:43
Speaker 3: we would want that for people we disagree with.
38:46
Speaker 5: My last question is, going back to your book, is
38:49
Speaker 5: there a politician that you see today right that you
38:53
Speaker 5: would say as a reflection of Jesse Jackson's legacy.
38:58
Speaker 3: You know, what I would say is that there are
39:01
Speaker 3: there are several politicians that are influenced by Jesse Jackson,
39:06
Speaker 3: but none of them have so far proven that they
39:10
Speaker 3: can actually do what he thought out to do and
39:15
Speaker 3: be successful at it. So I would say that, you know,
39:20
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders is a Jacksonian politician in the way that
39:24
Speaker 3: he talks about economic issues. AOC is like the next
39:29
Speaker 3: level of that she brings in the sort of social
39:32
Speaker 3: justice piece that I think is lower on the list
39:36
Speaker 3: of priorities for someone like Bernie Sanders. And I think
39:41
Speaker 3: so I think that there are there's sort of like
39:43
Speaker 3: this new generation of populist politician who are talking about
39:49
Speaker 3: issues in the way that he did, basically arguing to
39:52
Speaker 3: voters that the system isn't set up for you, that
39:56
Speaker 3: it's not you know, it's sort of like this idea
40:00
Speaker 3: that as working people, the system is set up for
40:05
Speaker 3: the rich and the powerful and the corporations. That's the
40:08
Speaker 3: type of message of Jesse Jackson hatt and you hear
40:10
Speaker 3: that in a lot of other politicians. But to me,
40:13
Speaker 3: the thing that's been missing from so many of them
40:16
Speaker 3: is being able to bring together the diverse coalition. Because
40:20
Speaker 3: if you're a Democrat and you're trying to run for
40:23
Speaker 3: a national office and you can't rally black people and
40:27
Speaker 3: Hispanic people and Asian Americans and like the whole coalition
40:30
Speaker 3: you're going to fail. You're going to fail. And that's
40:33
Speaker 3: where Bernie Sanders went wrong, is that he never really
40:36
Speaker 3: was able to get people of color on board. He
40:39
Speaker 3: had the economic piece, but he didn't have the other piece.
40:42
Speaker 3: And so I think the book kind of has a
40:45
Speaker 3: question mark at the end of it because it's a
40:48
Speaker 3: real question are there any politicians who can do both
40:51
Speaker 3: of those things at the same time, Because that's what's
40:53
Speaker 3: required in order to build a true coalition in the
40:57
Speaker 3: Democrat In today's Democratic Party, you can't have one without
41:01
Speaker 3: the other. You can't have the economic piece without the other,
41:04
Speaker 3: and so it's I think it's an open question who's
41:07
Speaker 3: going to be able to do that.
41:08
Speaker 5: Are you doing an audio version?
41:11
Speaker 3: Yes, I did it. I did it, and it'll be
41:13
Speaker 3: available for people like me who don't have time to
41:16
Speaker 3: carry around a book.
41:18
Speaker 5: Just love to hear you speak because your voice has
41:21
Speaker 5: a calmness to it that would be great for me
41:24
Speaker 5: to learn all of this stuff, you know what I'm saying,
41:26
Speaker 5: like a lot of stuff that I don't know, Like, yeah,
41:28
Speaker 5: your voice is really calling.
41:30
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you did get what school did you
41:32
Speaker 1: go to and everything? And did you always want to be,
41:34
Speaker 1: you know, doing what you're doing.
41:36
Speaker 3: I went to Harvard or whatever I went. But look,
41:40
Speaker 3: I I grew up in Booie, Maryland. Okay, I'm a
41:44
Speaker 3: PG girl, and I went to Bowie High School. I
41:50
Speaker 3: just I was a real nerd. I worked really hard
41:54
Speaker 3: and I got into Harvard and that really changed my life.
41:58
Speaker 3: But the reason I ended up as a journalists is because,
42:02
Speaker 3: first of all, I always loved politics, but I didn't
42:04
Speaker 3: know I didn't want to be in politics. I don't
42:06
Speaker 3: like to be honest, I don't like politicians, but I
42:11
Speaker 3: love current events. I love history, I love government. And
42:14
Speaker 3: when I was in college, I went on a civil
42:16
Speaker 3: rights and service tour to We started in Memphis at
42:19
Speaker 3: the Lorraine Motel. We went to Mississippi, and we traveled
42:23
Speaker 3: around to all these different sites and I blogged about it,
42:26
Speaker 3: and it was like a bug like I was so
42:30
Speaker 3: convinced by the power of the people who were journalists
42:37
Speaker 3: at that time and took the things that were happening
42:39
Speaker 3: in these tiny towns and brought it to the entire
42:41
Speaker 3: country and really helped change the trajectory of civil rights
42:45
Speaker 3: in the country, and I really identified with that, and
42:49
Speaker 3: I identified with the power of being there to tell history,
42:54
Speaker 3: and that changed everything for me. And at that point
42:56
Speaker 3: I decided that I wanted to be in journalism, and
43:00
Speaker 3: I decided to pursue it. And I got kind of
43:04
Speaker 3: lucky that my first job was at kind of a
43:09
Speaker 3: startup Politico, which now is not a startup anymore, but
43:14
Speaker 3: at the time it was, and I was their very
43:16
Speaker 3: first class of interns, and they just kind of let
43:19
Speaker 3: me do whatever and gave me an extraordinary amount of opportunity.
43:24
Speaker 3: They hired me after college. I was covering the Obama
43:27
Speaker 3: White House. I have a late birthday, so I was
43:30
Speaker 3: twenty one when I was out there, literally at the
43:34
Speaker 3: White House in the briefing room, and so they gave
43:38
Speaker 3: me an incredible opportunity to dive right into national politics.
43:43
Speaker 3: And I've been doing it ever since. And the medium
43:46
Speaker 3: has changed. I've gone from print to television, but you know,
43:51
Speaker 3: I've covered two presidents, I've covered several presidential campaigns. I've
43:55
Speaker 3: done a lot in politics, and I think it's all
44:00
Speaker 3: culminated to this moment where I have an opportunity to
44:03
Speaker 3: help people, not just tell people what is happening, but
44:06
Speaker 3: help them understand it, because I think that people are
44:09
Speaker 3: over they're oversaturated with just all the stuff that's happening,
44:15
Speaker 3: and they need a lot of help just understanding what
44:20
Speaker 3: really matters, what should break through to them. And that's
44:22
Speaker 3: what I get to do in my job right now.
44:24
Speaker 2: I've heard people say things like, you know, you're the
44:26
Speaker 2: future of CNN, but you know, how do you handle
44:29
Speaker 2: being labeled at when legacy media itself is kind of
44:32
Speaker 2: like fighting to stay relevant.
44:34
Speaker 3: Yes, we are fighting for our lives out there. I mean, look,
44:37
Speaker 3: I think in the media, everybody is fighting for attention.
44:42
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what medium you're in, and so we're
44:46
Speaker 3: in that. We're in that fight alongside everybody else. But
44:51
Speaker 3: television isn't really going anywhere. It's just that we have
44:54
Speaker 3: to evolve with people. We have to meet them where
44:57
Speaker 3: they are and both the method that we talk to people,
45:01
Speaker 3: but also the content. And I'm really grateful that we
45:08
Speaker 3: about a year ago, a little over a year ago
45:10
Speaker 3: is when we started to do my show this way,
45:13
Speaker 3: and I'm really kind of grateful that we did because
45:17
Speaker 3: it really speaks to what people are looking for, which
45:20
Speaker 3: I know you talk about a lot Charlemagne, which is
45:22
Speaker 3: they're looking for more authenticity and media, and I think
45:26
Speaker 3: legacy linear media has been very slow to that because
45:30
Speaker 3: they don't want to sacrifice being authoritative for being relatable.
45:36
Speaker 3: But I think that there's a way to do both,
45:38
Speaker 3: and there's a way to kind of give people information
45:42
Speaker 3: while also speaking to them in a way that they
45:45
Speaker 3: understand and leveling with them and identifying with them, or
45:51
Speaker 3: putting people on TV who they identify with. And so
45:55
Speaker 3: the innovation is happening, and CNN is going to be
46:00
Speaker 3: streaming soon, so people who don't even have cable are
46:03
Speaker 3: going to be able to literally just open up their
46:07
Speaker 3: app and pay a small monthly fee and you can
46:10
Speaker 3: watch it. And that's the future. And we're on Instagram
46:15
Speaker 3: and you know, these our clips go crazy viral because
46:18
Speaker 3: that's how people are consuming information. I mean, I wish
46:22
Speaker 3: they watched the whole show, but I also appreciate that
46:26
Speaker 3: people who don't even watch TV are seeing what happens
46:30
Speaker 3: on the show because cable TV still remains incredibly relevant.
46:35
Speaker 3: That to me tells me what the relevance is. People
46:38
Speaker 3: may not be turning on their TV every night at
46:40
Speaker 3: the same time, but the clips are getting millions of
46:43
Speaker 3: use because they still think it's important when they see
46:47
Speaker 3: something with a CNN logo on it, that there's some
46:51
Speaker 3: authoritativeness there. So we still have that responsibility, but where
46:56
Speaker 3: we have to evolve, just like everybody else does.
46:58
Speaker 4: What media changing, and it's now because media is changing
47:02
Speaker 4: politicians and politics is changing as well to in the
47:04
Speaker 4: way that people speak to people. Kamala Hair said to
47:07
Speaker 4: BBC that she possibly may run again because I know
47:12
Speaker 4: you were also very honest about what she did and
47:14
Speaker 4: do right and what you thought she did do right
47:16
Speaker 4: when she ran. If she was to run again, like,
47:18
Speaker 4: where does she meet in the middle with that? Because
47:20
Speaker 4: I think that's one of the things that fell off
47:21
Speaker 4: with her last campaign, is that that was happening with media,
47:24
Speaker 4: but she didn't meet us where some people were at
47:26
Speaker 4: and speak straight to certain people. So what does she
47:29
Speaker 4: do this summer run and shoes she even run again?
47:31
Speaker 3: You know, I've been talking to a lot of people
47:33
Speaker 3: about that because, as you know, this book was very controversial,
47:38
Speaker 3: and it was even more controversial than you think in private.
47:43
Speaker 3: In private, I think there's a lot of controversy around
47:45
Speaker 3: it because I think that there are a lot of
47:48
Speaker 3: bridges that are burned here, whether she wanted to or not,
47:52
Speaker 3: And I think it will be very difficult for her
47:56
Speaker 3: to mend those fences that she'll need in order to
48:02
Speaker 3: run if she just decided to run again. I think
48:05
Speaker 3: this book read kind of like somebody who was kind
48:08
Speaker 3: of done with it. So I will be interested to
48:12
Speaker 3: see if she decides to do it. But one thing
48:15
Speaker 3: I'll say, I mean, I think that she still has
48:21
Speaker 3: to figure out how to tap into authenticity in how
48:27
Speaker 3: she presents herself to the public, because this world is
48:31
Speaker 3: not getting more kind to politicians who cannot level with
48:37
Speaker 3: voters and cannot show up any and everywhere. And you
48:42
Speaker 3: know my Fred Astead Herndon, who just left The New
48:45
Speaker 3: York Times but he's going to be at Vox. He
48:47
Speaker 3: just wrote a piece about zoron Mum Donnie, and he
48:49
Speaker 3: had this line that I think a lot of people quoted.
48:52
Speaker 3: That was about how politicians have to be able to
48:55
Speaker 3: talk in thirty second bites, in three minute clips, and
48:59
Speaker 3: in three hour interviews, and that's the future. You have
49:04
Speaker 3: to be able to do it all. You have to
49:05
Speaker 3: be able to show up in any medium and people
49:10
Speaker 3: get in a second who you are. And what you're about.
49:13
Speaker 3: And I think that she still has work to do
49:16
Speaker 3: in that respect, and maybe this book is the first
49:19
Speaker 3: kind of foray into that, because I read her last
49:22
Speaker 3: book and the tone was completely different. This is a
49:25
Speaker 3: different kind of book, and it was an opening foray
49:30
Speaker 3: into her showing people more of herself. But she's going
49:34
Speaker 3: to have to catch up to the speed and the
49:39
Speaker 3: kind of realness of media and politics. That will be
49:46
Speaker 3: the bar in twenty twenty eight. Like in twenty twenty eight,
49:49
Speaker 3: the bar is going to be are you a politician
49:53
Speaker 3: that can show up any and everywhere and authentically reach people?
49:58
Speaker 3: And I think she is still straddling the old world
50:02
Speaker 3: and the new world, and she's gonna have to figure
50:03
Speaker 3: out which one she wants to be in.
50:05
Speaker 1: I agree with that.
50:06
Speaker 2: I think it's actually more important just to show up
50:09
Speaker 2: any and everywhere as your true, authentic self. I don't
50:11
Speaker 2: think you should worry about whether or not this is
50:13
Speaker 2: gonna be a thirty second sound bite or a three
50:15
Speaker 2: minute clip or three. I'll just go have the conversation
50:17
Speaker 2: because the media is gonna do that for you. The
50:19
Speaker 2: meeting is gonna chop it up for you.
50:21
Speaker 3: Yes, but yes, but I also think, Look, I mean
50:26
Speaker 3: I am I'm a journalist, so I deal with her
50:31
Speaker 3: campaign and all of that. And I'm telling you the
50:35
Speaker 3: answer is not yes to everything in terms of where
50:38
Speaker 3: she's willing to show up. And some of that is
50:40
Speaker 3: maybe staff and how they try to kind of protect
50:43
Speaker 3: their principle. But in the future, you have to be
50:47
Speaker 3: willing to talk to any and everyone. You have to
50:49
Speaker 3: be willing to take risks. You have to be willing
50:51
Speaker 3: to sit in front of people who might very well
50:54
Speaker 3: be hostile to you and win them over. And I
50:57
Speaker 3: think that and you might, yeah, well, what exactly, And
51:02
Speaker 3: I'm just telling you it's that was not how they
51:04
Speaker 3: ran that last campaign period. It wasn't and they're going
51:08
Speaker 3: to have to She's going to have to be willing
51:10
Speaker 3: to do that, which is gonna it's it's going to
51:13
Speaker 3: require taking a lot of risk. But that is the
51:16
Speaker 3: future of politicians. The ones who will thrive in tomorrow's
51:23
Speaker 3: media environment. They they you got to be willing to
51:26
Speaker 3: go everywhere on a dime, prepared or not briefed or not.
51:32
Speaker 3: That is how it works, and that's not how they
51:36
Speaker 3: ran in twenty twenty four. And if she's going to
51:39
Speaker 3: run again, it's going to have to be a complete overhaul.
51:42
Speaker 3: And she's strategy like.
51:44
Speaker 2: Don't wait, don't and just for all of them, don't
51:47
Speaker 2: wait until it's actual twenty seven, not do it now,
51:52
Speaker 2: Like start going to these places now. And I think
51:55
Speaker 2: that a lot of them should be launching their own platforms.
51:57
Speaker 2: They should have their own podcast.
51:59
Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom, Yeah, I mean, and look, I mean, you
52:03
Speaker 3: say what you want about Gavin Newsom, this is what
52:05
Speaker 3: I'm talking about. He had this podcast and he was
52:09
Speaker 3: bringing on all these conservatives on and he got a
52:14
Speaker 3: lot of criticism for it. But I think what he
52:17
Speaker 3: was trying to show was a willingness to talk to
52:20
Speaker 3: anybody and to debate anybody. And again, I think there's
52:26
Speaker 3: a lot of that that's going to be required in
52:27
Speaker 3: the future. You've got to prove to people that you
52:30
Speaker 3: can win the argument. And if you can't do that,
52:34
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter how polished you are, how experienced or
52:39
Speaker 3: knowledgeable you are. I think that's the baseline bar that
52:43
Speaker 3: you're going to have to cross for a lot of
52:45
Speaker 3: voters in this future media ecosystem.
52:48
Speaker 1: No, I agree.
52:49
Speaker 2: You know. The interesting thing that the VP is doing.
52:51
Speaker 2: I think the book tour. I think this book is
52:53
Speaker 2: going to help her a lot. Yea, because it's the
52:54
Speaker 2: first step to being completely honest and then going on
52:57
Speaker 2: to book tour, but also going into these cities and
52:59
Speaker 2: talking to you know, locals when you're in these cities.
53:02
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna go a long way.
53:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's always important to do that.
53:06
Speaker 2: But none of these candidates are going to really stand
53:08
Speaker 2: a chance in hell if none of them were really
53:10
Speaker 2: willing to challenge capitalism.
53:12
Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, I mean there's some truth there, Okay.
53:17
Speaker 3: The part of that that I would say is true
53:22
Speaker 3: is that when you look at what Trump is doing
53:25
Speaker 3: as president, in a way he's challenging capitalism. He's putting
53:32
Speaker 3: tariffs on countries indiscriminately just because he wants to, making
53:37
Speaker 3: the case that he's doing it for Americans. He is
53:40
Speaker 3: taking government stakes in private companies. That's a Bernie Sanders idea.
53:47
Speaker 3: By the way, he is creating a government website where
53:51
Speaker 3: people can shop around for prescription drugs, another Bernie Sanders idea.
53:58
Speaker 3: So his willingness to just take some of these ideas
54:03
Speaker 3: the Democrats have been talking about and just do them,
54:07
Speaker 3: no matter how controversial they are, has been one of
54:11
Speaker 3: the things that whether you like him or not, what
54:15
Speaker 3: people will say about Trump is that he does what
54:17
Speaker 3: he says. And I think the Democrats one of the
54:20
Speaker 3: big problems that they have is that voters don't think
54:23
Speaker 3: they're going to do what they say. They say all
54:26
Speaker 3: the right things, but they don't think they're going to
54:28
Speaker 3: do what they say. And so whether it's challenging you
54:31
Speaker 3: can call it challenging capitalism or challenging whatever, voters want
54:36
Speaker 3: to know that you're willing to buck the system for them,
54:40
Speaker 3: and I think Trump does that right now in a
54:44
Speaker 3: way that really like shakes people up and makes people
54:50
Speaker 3: really mad. But that is also why a lot of voters,
54:53
Speaker 3: whether they like him or not, they will describe him
54:56
Speaker 3: as effective.
54:57
Speaker 2: I wonder how it all because it's like he's bucking
54:59
Speaker 2: the system, but it has only been fit in the
55:00
Speaker 2: rich right now, and it's not even benefiting his voters.
55:02
Speaker 1: I wont to why.
55:03
Speaker 3: And even you know, look the tariff thing. He he's
55:09
Speaker 3: making the case to Americans that this is a benefit
55:12
Speaker 3: to them, but the economics don't work, No, they don't
55:16
Speaker 3: make sense. Farmers would beg to differ right at this moment.
55:20
Speaker 3: They are struggling mightily under these tariffs. Small businesses are
55:25
Speaker 3: struggling mightily under these terraffs. So there is obviously a
55:30
Speaker 3: really big difference between what Trump is doing and what
55:33
Speaker 3: he's saying and what is actually happening. But I do
55:37
Speaker 3: think that it's breaking through and I and my only
55:42
Speaker 3: point about that was just there's a Democrats have become
55:46
Speaker 3: way more establishment in the last fifteen years because Trump
55:50
Speaker 3: is so anti establishment. They've defined themselves in opposition to Trump,
55:54
Speaker 3: and so they've become sort of an avatar of the system.
55:59
Speaker 3: And I don't think they realize the degree to which
56:02
Speaker 3: voters do not like the system at all. And the
56:06
Speaker 3: next Democratic nominee is going to have to be able
56:09
Speaker 3: to tap into that one way or another, to say
56:12
Speaker 3: to people, I get it, you don't actually like the
56:16
Speaker 3: way things are work working, Stop defending this status quo
56:20
Speaker 3: and figure out what an alternative is that isn't just
56:24
Speaker 3: opposition to Trump. And do I see anybody actually doing
56:30
Speaker 3: that right now? Not really, But look, time will tell,
56:36
Speaker 3: Like we've got a long way ahead, and any if
56:38
Speaker 3: history tells us anything, sometimes the person who ends up
56:41
Speaker 3: rising to the top is not the person that any
56:44
Speaker 3: of us are thinking about or talking about it. It's
56:46
Speaker 3: somebody who's going to come seemingly out of nowhere, but
56:50
Speaker 3: not going to come from the center of the political
56:54
Speaker 3: universe right now.
56:55
Speaker 4: So we'll see if to your point of everything you
56:58
Speaker 4: just said, right, if Jesse accent right was able to
57:01
Speaker 4: actually become president president, get in office just do things
57:05
Speaker 4: for people that he cared about, how would Barack Obama's
57:09
Speaker 4: presidency have been different. Kamala Harris just on this run
57:12
Speaker 4: feeling like she has to dodge certain things and can't
57:14
Speaker 4: speak straight to black people. How would all of that
57:16
Speaker 4: be different if he had been able to get in
57:18
Speaker 4: office and do what he was doing before he was
57:19
Speaker 4: voted president or not voted.
57:21
Speaker 3: But that's really interesting. It's such an interesting question. I mean,
57:24
Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons that Vice President Harris
57:28
Speaker 3: and Barack Obama have had to present a certain way
57:34
Speaker 3: to the American public is the perception that a broad
57:40
Speaker 3: swath of the electorate, especially white voters, won't take a
57:44
Speaker 3: black candidate seriously unless they are very buttoned up, have
57:49
Speaker 3: the resume all lined up, the whole thing. And that's accurate,
57:54
Speaker 3: right that, Like we all understand that you kind of
57:57
Speaker 3: have to clear a higher bar in order to even
58:00
Speaker 3: be let in the door. And I do wonder if
58:03
Speaker 3: the country had successfully elected a black president who was
58:07
Speaker 3: running on a progressive platform thirty years ago, whether they
58:13
Speaker 3: would have that same burden. And I don't know, maybe
58:16
Speaker 3: they would not have. You know, one of the things
58:20
Speaker 3: about Jesse Jackson is that his fluency in a wide
58:26
Speaker 3: range of issues. As somebody who never was elected to
58:31
Speaker 3: political office, who came out of the segregated South, who
58:38
Speaker 3: came out of a civil rights tradition, he was right
58:41
Speaker 3: up there with all the other candidates on the debate
58:45
Speaker 3: stage talking about foreign policy, talking about economic policy, giving speeches.
58:50
Speaker 3: I mean I would talk to people who would say
58:52
Speaker 3: that they would give him, you know, like a thirty
58:54
Speaker 3: minute briefing, and he would go in there and he
58:56
Speaker 3: would weave a whole speech around an issue. He could
59:00
Speaker 3: take information in and very quickly turn it around into
59:04
Speaker 3: something that was compelling to an audience. And so he
59:09
Speaker 3: had a kind of intellect that was not very respected
59:14
Speaker 3: at the time. And I do think that, you know,
59:18
Speaker 3: if the country had elected a black president, I think
59:21
Speaker 3: candidates today who are running who are like Kamala Harris
59:24
Speaker 3: or Barack Obama would not have to would not have
59:29
Speaker 3: to do so much to show white Americans in particular
59:35
Speaker 3: that they're qualified and that they have the basic, you know,
59:40
Speaker 3: qualifications to fit the job. I think that added burden
59:45
Speaker 3: is one of the reasons that it's hard then to
59:49
Speaker 3: turn around and say to those same candidates, well, you've
59:51
Speaker 3: got to be authentic, because that same authenticity is what
59:55
Speaker 3: they get knocked for early on in their career. So
59:59
Speaker 3: it is I'm not say suggesting that it's easy. I
1:00:01
Speaker 3: think it is difficult. You have to be able to
1:00:03
Speaker 3: do both things. And actually I would say Obama actually
1:00:06
Speaker 3: did both things pretty well. He was incredibly credentialed, but
1:00:10
Speaker 3: he was incredibly authentic in the communities where he needed
1:00:14
Speaker 3: to be authentic in And I do think that it
1:00:16
Speaker 3: is possible to do it, but it is absolutely a
1:00:18
Speaker 3: higher bar, and it's a higher bar still to this day,
1:00:21
Speaker 3: because we've only done it once elected a black person
1:00:25
Speaker 3: to the highest office in the land, and so there's
1:00:27
Speaker 3: still a lot that has to be dealt with in
1:00:30
Speaker 3: terms of people's preconceived notions of what people of color
1:00:34
Speaker 3: can do at high levels of political office.
1:00:38
Speaker 1: My last question.
1:00:40
Speaker 2: When Cameron took a sip of pink Horsepower on your show,
1:00:43
Speaker 2: like you just took a sip with that.
1:00:45
Speaker 3: Is there something known in the industry about how did
1:00:48
Speaker 3: he treated his artists? Sorry, I'm going to get some
1:00:56
Speaker 3: cheeks after this horse Powers joint.
1:00:59
Speaker 2: And you were going to And then when Cam said
1:01:01
Speaker 2: he was going to get some cheeks after your interview,
1:01:03
Speaker 2: did you understand what was happening in that moment?
1:01:06
Speaker 3: I knew that we needed to end the interview. Obviously,
1:01:12
Speaker 3: I knew we needed to end the interview. We were
1:01:15
Speaker 3: up against the end of the show, and we didn't.
1:01:18
Speaker 3: We had to get to a certain time, so you know,
1:01:23
Speaker 3: I had to land that plane and I did. And look,
1:01:28
Speaker 3: I mean it was ridiculous, but as we know, that
1:01:33
Speaker 3: was the point.
1:01:34
Speaker 1: So the person who had to transcribe the show afterwards
1:01:36
Speaker 1: ask you what that meant?
1:01:38
Speaker 3: What do you need to get some Well we all
1:01:40
Speaker 3: were just like, what just happened? Yeah, you know, I mean, whatever,
1:01:44
Speaker 3: it's I'm not going to give this much more oxygen
1:01:48
Speaker 3: because I know that's part of the point. I know
1:01:50
Speaker 3: he was here a little while ago talking about it.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, because what was your favorite viral
1:01:55
Speaker 2: news network moment? Was it the sixty minutes joint. Was
1:01:58
Speaker 2: it the bill O'Reilly or the seeingn drinking pink?
1:02:02
Speaker 1: Seeing that.
1:02:05
Speaker 3: By far, I'm sure he did before. It wasn't like
1:02:10
Speaker 3: it wasn't personal anything with you.
1:02:11
Speaker 4: He just felt like the network only hits him up
1:02:13
Speaker 4: for things that aren't about what he does outside of.
1:02:15
Speaker 3: All I will say is that we were told by
1:02:20
Speaker 3: his team that he wanted to talk about this, not
1:02:23
Speaker 3: the other way around. So that's we Obviously, we don't
1:02:26
Speaker 3: book people about things they don't want to talk about,
1:02:30
Speaker 3: So we would never bring someone on the show and
1:02:32
Speaker 3: force them to talk about something that they didn't agree
1:02:35
Speaker 3: to talk about.
1:02:36
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
1:02:37
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody we have free will. We can do
1:02:40
Speaker 3: what we want. But like I said, I knew immediately.
1:02:44
Speaker 3: Actually we we knew pretty early on in the interview
1:02:47
Speaker 3: that we needed to get out as as.
1:02:52
Speaker 2: You know.
1:02:53
Speaker 3: It was, I mean, it was from the from the
1:02:55
Speaker 3: get go. Yeah, I'm not new to this, Like I know,
1:03:01
Speaker 3: from the beginning, when somebody is not interested in being
1:03:06
Speaker 3: and being interviewed, and so we knew we needed to
1:03:08
Speaker 3: get out. But it was just a timing thing, you know,
1:03:11
Speaker 3: when you're at the end of the show. And he
1:03:14
Speaker 3: was actually supposed to be on the show earlier but
1:03:17
Speaker 3: was late, and so we we we're just figuring out
1:03:21
Speaker 3: how quickly we could hand off to Laura Coates at
1:03:24
Speaker 3: eleven o'clock.
1:03:25
Speaker 2: That put you in a good class. So Cam's got
1:03:27
Speaker 2: some really good interviews with news and.
1:03:35
Speaker 1: He got some great moments.
1:03:36
Speaker 3: Will get said on the playlist somewhere. Absolutely absolutely not,
1:03:40
Speaker 3: we are not. That is not a class.
1:03:42
Speaker 1: And I think you said I want to be, he
1:03:44
Speaker 1: said was his favorite.
1:03:45
Speaker 2: I asked him which one was the and is a
1:03:46
Speaker 2: Cooper sixty minutes interview the bill O'Reilly?
1:03:50
Speaker 1: When he was like you mad you met film? He
1:03:53
Speaker 1: said yes, because you horse power.
1:03:56
Speaker 3: I'm happy for I'm happy for him.
1:04:03
Speaker 4: But you know, stuff like that personally when it happens. No,
1:04:08
Speaker 4: absolutely not not personally, but just like why you why
1:04:11
Speaker 4: my show?
1:04:15
Speaker 2: No?
1:04:16
Speaker 3: I you know what, let me just I'll just say
1:04:19
Speaker 3: this because I don't I've never talked I've actually never
1:04:22
Speaker 3: talked about this before. But when that happened, our booker
1:04:27
Speaker 3: who booked that interview was a young woman and she
1:04:31
Speaker 3: was very upset about it. And I said to her afterwards,
1:04:38
Speaker 3: and I said to my entire team, I was like,
1:04:41
Speaker 3: this is not going to be a reason that we
1:04:43
Speaker 3: play it safe. We are not going to take this
1:04:46
Speaker 3: as a moment to say, oh, this happened to us,
1:04:50
Speaker 3: we can't have people like that on our air. Again.
1:04:52
Speaker 3: I don't believe in that. I think that we are.
1:04:56
Speaker 3: We are out here trying to you hear from people
1:05:02
Speaker 3: who are interesting and different, and maybe sometimes it goes left,
1:05:08
Speaker 3: but I'm not gonna this is We're not gonna come
1:05:11
Speaker 3: down on you for booking this interview because we want
1:05:14
Speaker 3: to bring interesting people onto the show and it was
1:05:17
Speaker 3: important to me to convey to them that we're not
1:05:20
Speaker 3: gonna go into a little ball and be like, oh
1:05:23
Speaker 3: my god, this went viral and this was embarrassing. No,
1:05:28
Speaker 3: this too shall pass. Like he had his moment, it
1:05:32
Speaker 3: was fine. I don't really care.
1:05:35
Speaker 1: I do.
1:05:36
Speaker 3: I wish he didn't do that on the air yet.
1:05:40
Speaker 3: But but I'm not using it as an excuse to
1:05:42
Speaker 3: say that we're going to play it safe on television,
1:05:45
Speaker 3: because that's not what we're doing here.
1:05:48
Speaker 2: So book a fantastic job, fantastic booking what's her name, fantastic.
1:05:54
Speaker 3: Book every night she was Unfortunately she moved to a
1:06:00
Speaker 3: different city, so she's no longer with us, but yeah,
1:06:03
Speaker 3: but we listen. We I it wasn't just her. I
1:06:06
Speaker 3: told her boss too, and I was like, we are not.
1:06:10
Speaker 3: We are not going to treat this like some kind
1:06:14
Speaker 3: of major mistake, because it was not. It is television,
1:06:17
Speaker 3: and sometimes in television you have guests and you don't
1:06:20
Speaker 3: know what they're going to say, and the whole point
1:06:22
Speaker 3: of TV is not to be predictable and boring. So
1:06:27
Speaker 3: let's not do that.
1:06:28
Speaker 1: I thoroughly enjoy your bookings. I thoroughly enjoy your show.
1:06:30
Speaker 2: Make sure y'all watch Abby Phillip on CNN News Night
1:06:33
Speaker 2: every night at ten and then this Table for five
1:06:36
Speaker 2: comes on at ten.
1:06:37
Speaker 3: Am on Saturday Saurdays. And don't forget to buy.
1:06:40
Speaker 2: The book Yes I dreamed of is out right now
1:06:42
Speaker 2: Jesse Jackson in the Fight for Black Political Power, Abby Philip,
1:06:47
Speaker 2: keep doing a great service.
1:06:48
Speaker 1: Though.
1:06:48
Speaker 3: Thank you guys having me come on the show sometime.
1:06:50
Speaker 3: All of you really, yeah, I know you have I
1:06:54
Speaker 3: know you have some political viewpoint. You know what I'm
1:06:58
Speaker 3: saying stuff, Even Take for five, I know it's I
1:07:01
Speaker 3: know it's late at night, so Table for five you
1:07:04
Speaker 3: can come on. It's a different time, so it's more
1:07:07
Speaker 3: earlier for your schedule.
1:07:08
Speaker 4: Yes, you'p going there, argue for us, we'll be supporting.
1:07:11
Speaker 1: I enjoy watching. It's Abby, Philip. It's the breakfast Club.
1:07:14
Speaker 3: Hold on every day I wake up the Breakfast Club.
1:07:19
Speaker 1: You'll finish for y'all done,