Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / The Noura Jackson case: 'Stranger to the Truth'

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The Noura Jackson case: 'Stranger to the Truth' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
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  Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Now my mom and my mom
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and breathing, breathing, breathing, not breathing, not breathing. You have
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  Speaker 1: help on the world. We're going to help your mother.
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  Speaker 1: Only right now. Imagine coming home in the evening and
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  Speaker 1: you call out, hey, where is everybody? Anybody home? And
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  Speaker 1: you walk through the home. You walk through your house,
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  Speaker 1: you know it by heart. You don't have to turn
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  Speaker 1: on all the lights, and you look and you look
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  Speaker 1: from room to room. Nobody's there until you get to
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  Speaker 1: your mom's room and you find your mom and you
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  Speaker 1: find out why she's not answering and why she didn't
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  Speaker 1: come to the door. She's dead, covered in blood, naked,
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  Speaker 1: lying on her bed. Clearly a horrible, horrible struggle has occurred,
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  Speaker 1: and the killer has rammed a waste basket over her
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  Speaker 1: head and you can't even process it. This is a
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  Speaker 1: story of Norah Jackson, a girl who finds her mother dead.
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  Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: being with us. What happened to Jennifer? What happened to
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  Speaker 1: Norah's mom? The mystery goes on. I want to expose
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  Speaker 1: the facts as we know them and joining me a
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  Speaker 1: very special guest. I want you to meet her. Lisa
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  Speaker 1: Hickman has written the book, literally written the book on
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  Speaker 1: this murder mystery, Stranger to Truth, and it is awesome.
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  Speaker 1: First I heard about it, then I got it on
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  Speaker 1: Amazon dot Com and I read it immediately and couldn't
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  Speaker 1: put it down. I mean, even the cover is captivating
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  Speaker 1: to me, even the cover. Lisa, thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us. I mean, that's an awesome book, the way
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  Speaker 1: you compilated all the facts. But what's interesting to me
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  Speaker 1: is I described just then the way Nora came in.
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  Speaker 1: Nora Jackson came in and found her mother. But actually
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: that night there's a little more to the story of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: her coming in. Also with me the Duke Alan Duke
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: joining me out of l A Alan. She comes home.
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  Speaker 1: She's been out with her friends that night, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: talking about the daughter Nora, and as spelled n O.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: You are that that's Nora correct, because sometimes I've heard
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: her pronounced Nora. Lisa, is it Nora or Nora? Nora
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: pronunciation is the same as it's a slightly different spell.
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  Speaker 1: I guess, gotcha. So she had been out with her
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  Speaker 1: friends that night, Alan, and they had been to some
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  Speaker 1: Italian festival. They live in the Memphis area, and they
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: have been out partying and drinking and having a good time.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: So she gets home and immediately perceives that there has
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  Speaker 1: been a burglary, that something's not right with the entry way.
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  Speaker 1: Did you get that part? Alan? She didn't just walk in.
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  Speaker 1: She knew immediately that the home had been burglarized. Did
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  Speaker 1: you did you see that point? Yes, something that didn't
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  Speaker 1: seem right according to what she said. What was it? Lisa?
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  Speaker 1: So when she comes home, she doesn't just walk in,
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  Speaker 1: and nobody answers it's not exactly how it happened when
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: she drove in. How did she know someone had been
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: in the home? I think, um, the glass. There was
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  Speaker 1: glass all over the kitchen floor, and I believe that's
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  Speaker 1: what the first thing that let her know something was
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  Speaker 1: a myth she came in. That's right, there was glass.
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  Speaker 1: There was one of those um doors between the garage
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  Speaker 1: and the kitchen that you could I think, break through
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  Speaker 1: and reach in and unlock it right there. That indicates
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  Speaker 1: very strongly it's someone that knows the family. It could
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  Speaker 1: be a neighbor, it could be a delivery person because
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  Speaker 1: that door was not visible from outside. You had to
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  Speaker 1: know to get into the garage, and there was something
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  Speaker 1: hinky about the lock. You had to know how to
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  Speaker 1: do it. Am I right on that? Am I remembering correctly? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: They described it as a secret butterfly lock that you
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  Speaker 1: would have had you have reached your arm through the
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  Speaker 1: hole that was in the glass and unlock it. And
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  Speaker 1: you would had to have known it was there to
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  Speaker 1: even have any idea that's what you would do. So
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  Speaker 1: it was a very peculiar place question. Yeah, the glass,
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  Speaker 1: the glass, The glass was on the in the um
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  Speaker 1: on the kitchen floor, and it was a pretty pretty
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  Speaker 1: um defined round hole UM in the center pane of
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  Speaker 1: that dark where somebody punched through. Okay, all right, so
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  Speaker 1: she comes in and she immediately sees that has happened.
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  Speaker 1: Then where does she go to? Lisa? And I believe
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  Speaker 1: she went down the hallway to toward her mother's bedroom
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  Speaker 1: and um that was up of course when she discovered
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  Speaker 1: her mother's body, and it was twilight, so it was
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: um that was such early morning hours. It was sort
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  Speaker 1: of semi dark in the house. Now didn't she run?
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  Speaker 1: Didn't she run to a neighbor and said, I think
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  Speaker 1: someone's broken in our house, and the neighbor comes with us.
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  Speaker 1: After she actually been in her mother's bedroom, she ran
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: across the street and asked them to screaming at their
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  Speaker 1: front door and asked them to help her that there
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: had been an intruder in their house. And that's when
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the neighbor grabbed his gun and um, you know, walked
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: ahead of her for a while across the street, and
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: then she actually ran in in front of him. That
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  Speaker 1: was a real problem for the why minute she got
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  Speaker 1: in front of the neighbor who had the gun because
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: she ran in front of him. So they go in
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  Speaker 1: and they find the mom. Allan, the description of the
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  Speaker 1: crime scene is gruesome. Please describe the photos that I
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  Speaker 1: saw blood, the mother laying with no clothing on the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: bed and just an awful lot of blood. Is that
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  Speaker 1: the best way to say at Lisa? Yes, And she
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  Speaker 1: actually was on the floor when she was found, Um
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  Speaker 1: at the footboo at the foot bed or the you know,
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  Speaker 1: towards the bottom of the bed, but on the floor.
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  Speaker 1: Her head was close to the door. What was it immediate?
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  Speaker 1: Should it immediately have been apparent that she had been
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  Speaker 1: stabbed or could it have been you would assume that
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  Speaker 1: she had just been shot or was that obvious? Well,
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  Speaker 1: I think anybody who just glanced in that room would
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  Speaker 1: have just seen all the blood and they would not
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  Speaker 1: have had any ideas it was she'd been stabbed or
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  Speaker 1: murder shot. There's just blood everywhere, so I wouldn't say
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  Speaker 1: it would be immediately apparent. Now, as a matter of fact,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: it turns out the mom has been stabbed nearly thirty times.
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  Speaker 1: That's a lot all around the torso neck, face. Jennifer
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  Speaker 1: just complete, eatly, completely destroyed. Everything about her is covered
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  Speaker 1: in stabs, including defensive stabs. Now, what has always intrigued
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: me is the fact that a wicker basket had been
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  Speaker 1: shoved down over her head, over her face. Lisa and
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  Speaker 1: a lot of um. I mean, I just made it
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  Speaker 1: such a personal crime, uh that you know whoever it
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  Speaker 1: committed this, I did not want to see her and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: her eyes were open. She was just thirty nine years old,
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  Speaker 1: just absolutely beautiful, is stunning, vivacious. A successful bond trader
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  Speaker 1: can't be an idiot to do that, and a triathlete.
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  Speaker 1: This is the mother, the thirty nine year old mother
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  Speaker 1: found stab dead and I mentioned thirty times, it was
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: more like fifty times. Fifty stab wounds over fifty stab wounds.
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  Speaker 1: There were so many stab wounds they could not count
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  Speaker 1: them after a certain point because many of them overlapped
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  Speaker 1: each other and the body was such a mess. They
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  Speaker 1: know that it was over fifty stab wounds. At that point,
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  Speaker 1: what happens to Nora because her her dad's already dead.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Her dad was shot. Let's see about a year before that,
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  Speaker 1: Nasmi was his name now. The dad and Jennifer had
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: been living apart for a period of time, several years.
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  Speaker 1: They were estranged. He was a successful business owner. He
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  Speaker 1: owned several businesses in the Memphis area, and he was
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: at one of them one night and there was a
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  Speaker 1: security surveillance camera and he's then he's in there and
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  Speaker 1: you can see him, and an unknown assailant comes in,
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  Speaker 1: manages to avoid the security camera, shoot him down execution style.
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  Speaker 1: You can't tell who the person was, and leaves. There
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  Speaker 1: is no attack, there is no theft, no burglary, nothing.
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  Speaker 1: They come in, shoot him dead and leave. Then about
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  Speaker 1: a year later, Jennifer is murdered. So this girl is
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  Speaker 1: left without either a parent, Alan and a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of an inheritance too. Why do you say things like that,
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  Speaker 1: A little bit of an inheritance. It's only it's over
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  Speaker 1: a million dollars. That's not an awful lot of money.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you told me that your
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  Speaker 1: dad for the railroad, as did mind. So I don't
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  Speaker 1: know what planet you're living on, but a million dollars
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  Speaker 1: is a lot of money. Alan, Earth to Alan before
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  Speaker 1: we talk about the inheritance. That night, Lisa, what happened
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  Speaker 1: to Nora? Where did she go? Well, by the time
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  Speaker 1: the her neighbors had been over and um they called
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  Speaker 1: the first responder, it was close to early morning, and
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  Speaker 1: she UM, she sat on the front curb and talked
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  Speaker 1: with the neighbors and UM and then eventually some friends
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  Speaker 1: showed up and picked her up and she left with
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  Speaker 1: him and UM drove around and UH just was and
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  Speaker 1: she was on and off at the crime scene because
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  Speaker 1: there were times when you know, she was confronted by
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  Speaker 1: a lot of people showing up, relatives and friends of
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  Speaker 1: her mother, and they would have, you know, various conversations.
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  Speaker 1: Isn't it true that she admitted that she was drinking
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  Speaker 1: and smoking pot that night? She did admit that. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: but she had been out and you know, so she
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  Speaker 1: probably needed a couple of hours to cyber up. Yes. Um,
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  Speaker 1: she did eventually, of course, ride downtown with um Detective Connie.
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  Speaker 1: Just this and uh, she actually fell asleep. Um on
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  Speaker 1: the ride down downtown. She was exhausted. Well well, well
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  Speaker 1: wait a minute, she fell asleep in the car. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm projecting, Lisa. I know I'm projecting, and that's not
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  Speaker 1: good when you're analyzing a crime or a crime scene.
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  Speaker 1: But I remember two distinctly. After my fiancee was murdered.
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  Speaker 1: There was no falling asleep, the shock and the just
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: trying to grasp and understand what was happening. There was
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: no sleeping. I remember even into the night, like one
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  Speaker 1: or two o'clock in the morning. Um. Our family doctor
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  Speaker 1: finally brought over some kind of sedative so I could
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  Speaker 1: go to sleep. It didn't work. I was just so
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: strung out. So she fell asleep in the police car
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  Speaker 1: after finding her mother's dead body. She did. Okay, that's
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  Speaker 1: just weird. When did they notice the big cut on
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  Speaker 1: her hand? That that they noticed that early? And um
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  Speaker 1: they took photographs of it. Um when she was downtown
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  Speaker 1: was detected Justice and um, like you know, she had
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: a she had for that A variety of different stories
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  Speaker 1: as to how they cut occurred. What we were talking about,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Lisa Hickman, author of Stranger to the Truth about the
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Jackson murder, is the daughter had a huge cut
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  Speaker 1: on her hand that cops had to notice. How did
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: she explain that away? Well, it was um actually covered
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: with some adhesive tape when by the time they were
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: at the police station, and um, they was never examined
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: underneath the tape. And she said that people were breaking
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: beer bottles at the Italian festival and that she um
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: tripped and cut it on one of the broken beer bottles,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And that's what she told Detective Justice. Did any of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: her friends recall her tripping and cutting her hand, any
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of the friends she was with that night, No, they
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: did not. Well, they really didn't have time to focus
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: on her tripping on and getting cut with a beer
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: bottle because of her of the mom, Jennifer's boyfriend, This
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: on again, off again boyfriend she had had called the
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: mom that very night. They had a very volatile relationship.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: What was their relationship about the one the mother Jennifer
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: had been dating this guy. What do we know about him? Well,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: he's a Methodist minister and um, at this point in
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: their relationship, just before the murder occurred, he was quite
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: insistent that they get married. He was he wanted um
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to take it to the next level, and she was
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: hesitant to do that. Isn't that pushing the nuclear button?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I mean getting married? Well, what was the rush for him?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Apparently it was, you know, extremely important. And Jennifer, having
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: been married and divorced was twice by then, was you know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: reluctant to get married. And uh, it seems fairly content
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: to keep things as they were. So that led to
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a number of breaking you know, breaking up and getting
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: back together. And that was a scenario at the time.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: She had called even wanted to drive to he was
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: in Jackson, Tennessee, drive and uh see him for his birthday.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: And um he was luke lukewarm to know about that idea.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And that very night he called her. Yeah, he was
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: having none of it. It was either get married or
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I guess face his anger. He had tried and tried
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to get her to get married. She wouldn't do it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: That night he called her. What was his excuse for
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: calling her. What did he say, Well, they never spoke. Um,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: she didn't get the call, didn't take the call, and um,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: we'll really never know what he was calling about. That
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: was about midnight. But he gave a story about why
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: he called. Didn't he say it was an accident like
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: a pocket dial? Um? He said he decided that it
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was too late to be calling any hung up. He
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: was afraid she might be right? So what at? What time?
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Did they place the time of death as best as
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: they could, Lisa, I believe they it was quite broad.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I want to say between one and three am there
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: was I wouldn't quite a window of time. And what
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: time was his phone call? Wasn't his phone call around twelve?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Around twelve? So just before the attack he's calling her
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and he lived out of town, right, Yes, he was
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: in Jackson, Tennessee. Interesting, I mean, some would argue, some
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: would hypothesize that he was calling to make sure she
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: was at home before he came over. That could be
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: a very compelling argument. So police, of course, alan look
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: at the boyfriend, the X, the current spouse. That's where
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: they start every investigation because the statistics typically it's your
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: partner that kills you, sad but true, So they start
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: looking at this guy methodist minister. Right, Yeah, I'm wondering
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: why they weren't looking at the dead former husband Nasmi
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: who killed him? Because if just months earlier, or you're earlier,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: one spouse is murdered and then another one is, don't
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you just think they might be connected? Did they, Lisa?
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Did they ever try to connect those two killings? I
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: do believe they looked into that, and um, they just
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: know there was just no evidence that um, you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: connected the murders. Well, they couldn't find any evidence because
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: they never knew Alan who killed Nasmi. That still remains
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: a mystery. They have the killer on video, they have
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: well they have it in Missy Beavers too, but that
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean they've got him in jail. For Pete's sake,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: they don't know, they don't know who did it. Well,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: that's true, but the maybe there was some connection, I'm
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: just saying, and maybe they don't have a way of
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: knowing that. Well. I agree with you on that, Alan,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I agree. I mean it's just too coincidental that the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: dad is murdered, there's no doubt whether it was an accident,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and the mother is murdered shortly thereafter. And it's no
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: accident that clearly we're both victor was of homicide. That's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: just what one in a million. The reason we don't
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: know who murdered Nasmy Lisa Hickman. Can you see the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: purps You can't. You can never see the perps face
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: in the in the ship, in the shooting death. Correct.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Are they disguised or they just keep their face away
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: from the camera. Right, just had UM acknowledge of where
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the cameras were placed and UM able to avoid them. Okay,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: right there, knew how to avoid the surveillance cameras. Okay,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: So we've got the killer of Nasmy as a potential suspect.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: We have the boyfriend who called her that night. Some
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: would argue to make sure she was home before he
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: showed up. There is a break in. Now, was there
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: any evidence of a sex attack on Jennifer? No, there
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: was not. Umm, although she was naked, that's true. Yes,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and there was a used find him in the room,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: but um, nothing that that linked that to Jennifer. Okay,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, So she's in her
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: bedroom naked and there's a used condom and they don't
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: think there was a sex attack. The medical examiner, you know,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: it ruled that there was not. The examiner placed the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: time of death between twelve thirty am and five ten am.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Was um. That was So what Lisa Hickman is saying
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: in a very delicate manner, is that, regardless of her
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: being in her bedroom completely naked and there's a used
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: condom in there, if the medical examiner did a rape
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: kit and there's no evidence on the body, then either
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: all of that was left from another incident or it
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: was staged. There's the only two choices, because I'm telling you,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: even I looking under a microscope can tell the difference
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: as to whether there's any indication sperm is there. It's
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: it's very clear under a microscope. So if the emmy
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: says no sex activity, the emmy is right. So forget
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: about that now. That leads me to another question. Was
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: anything stolen from the home, Lisa UM. I believe there
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: were a few items missing that some some eventually turned
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: up in a bin in the sun room. I think
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: her driver's license, but as far as any valuables, no,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and her driver's license in a ben. I didn't know
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer's driver's like when you say, Ben, are you
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: talking about a trash can? No, No, just like a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: storage you know container. Um, some stuff was just kind
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: of strewn around. Okay, I find that very odd. There's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: no sex attack, nothing is stolen, no jewelry, no money,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the DVD, DVD play, nothing like that. And her driver's
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: license is displaced. Okay. Let's I want to get back
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to where Nora was that night. She's saying she's at
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the Italian festival. That's confirmed. I still don't did anybody
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: confirm her falling on the beer ball? No, no one
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: did that, that was not confirmed. All right, What can
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you tell me about her being at a walgrains buying
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: bandages that night? Lisa? Right, that was um, that was
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: all caught on surveillance. Um. And she uh just walked
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: in of course, and um, you know, as the the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: fellow checking you know, checking out, um, first of all
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: offers of paper towels, and he gave her some and
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: she used those on her hand and then bought a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: number of medical supply What time was that, Lisa? I
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: believe that was around to a m um and she uh,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you know, had been on her phone pretty often on
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: all night basically except for a period of time when
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: it was quiet, and um, yes, went into Walgreens for
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: you Well, you're putting it. You're certainly putting perfume on
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the big She lived on the cell phone. She was
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: on it constantly, but then there was a period of
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: time between let's say, like one and three, she went
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: totally quiet, not one single phone call. There was an
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: odd period of time she was not on the phone,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and then she picked right back up again. And during
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: this time, I think it's when she spotted on surveillance
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: video at the pharmacy buying bandages. So that was around
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: one o'clock. You're saying, um, right right in there, between
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: one and two. Okay, So you know what was interesting
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Alan about when she went to the pharmacy to get bandages.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: What the pharmacy employee said, did you see that? I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: saw that. I saw the surveillance video that said she
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: was sure she was obviously bleeding and had a bandage
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: on her hand. Okay, there's a little bit more to it,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: he said. The employees said it was openly bleeding, And
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: what I mean by that is it had just happened
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: unless she reinjured it and it started bleeding again. Lisa.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: What did she say at the pharmacy as to what
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: happened to her hand? No, I don't remember exactly to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: tell you the truth. Um if she gave any kind
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of an explanation for her or not the hand. Um.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: She told her her off on and off boyfriend Perry,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: that she cut it in her house chasing her kitten.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: She told her Aunt Grace she cut it. Um she
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: burned it making macaroni and cheese. There are just a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: number of different stories about the cut on her hand.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And um, okay, hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa? What
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: happened to falling on the beer bottle? That was one
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of the stories too. There's several different accounts for how
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the cut occurs. Alan are you hearing this? Mr? Innocent
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: until proven guilty? Well, at least O. J. Simpson stuck
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to the story about how he cut his hand. At
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: least we have that but with that similarity. But you
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: think they're broken glass in the middle of consumption of alcohol,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: right right? Exactly? What? So? He? I guess I do
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: have to give that decemps. And he did stick with
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: his story. Nora Jackson has multiple stories. Now. That is
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: when I got concerned about Nora Jackson. First of all,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: knowing about that hinky lock and how to get in.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: That's why I was asking you about the glass. Was
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: it on the kitchen floor or the garage floor? That
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: would tell me which way the intruder from which angle
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: they were punching the glass. Then the fact that the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: waste basket was put over the mom's face. A random
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: killer doesn't take time to do that. They hit it
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and quit it. They're gone. They don't care about the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: victim looking at them. No sexist, sex attack, nothing stolen.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And now this cut on her hand. This is not
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: typically if you look at statistics a female crime, this
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: is statistically not committed by a woman. Also, matricide or
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: killing your mother less than one percent of all homicides,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: less than one percent is the murder of your own mother.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: So trying to pen this on Nora Jackson is statistically improbable.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: But then enter the various stories she gives. I mean
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to me, it was unlikely that you happened to fall
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: on a broken beer bottle number one, But number two,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, you'd hit your knees first. Just
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to me, that's an unlikely scenario. But I I could
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: go with it, but changing the story, that is a problem.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I want to go through her changing stories again. Who
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: did she tell what Lisa? She told Perry her Um,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: as I said, her on and off again boyfriend. She
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: was chasing her kitty. She she picked up a little
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: kitten that day from a neighbor who was giving them away,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and Um cut it on the glass in the kitchen floor.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And then she told her aunt Grace that she burned
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it making macaroni and cheese. And then of course the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: police officers, she told you know that there was broken
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: glass at the Italian festival and as she fell and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: cut it on that. I used to go through this
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: with defense attorneys in court all the time. The fact
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: that they would argue, well, your witnesses, your witnesses change
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: their story, and I would argue back, no, Alan, they
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: haven't changed their story. They have embellished their story. They've
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: added to this story because they're finally being asked the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: right questions. They will never ask these questions before. There's
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a big difference, Alan, in changing your story and adding
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to your story. Once you start changing your story, you're
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: in hot water. But did she only tell one story
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: to police, to the police. Yes, yes, I believe to
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the police it was so and that's what's relevant. What
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: do you mean that's what's relevant? I mean well, I
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: mean she to investigators, she did not tell multiple stories.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And this boyfriend, I mean, are there reasons we wouldn't
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: trust necessarily his memory? Well, I don't know. He was
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: partying too, but um, I couldn't. I don't know about
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: his memory. Okay, the wait a minute, you're saying because um,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: he had been drinking that night, he didn't remember what
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: she said about the wound to her hand. Well, are
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: you trying to suggest he did it? He had been
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: using drugs, right, He had been using drugs right, Yes
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: he did. Um, he was using ecstasy that night. There
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: you go. Okay, So who did she tell about the kitten?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Who is that? Okay, that's um, that's tell His name
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: is Perry and he was on again, off again boyfriend. Andrew. Um,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the individual we were talking about earlier. Uh, he um
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: was also someone he was a friend, but at times
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: like they had more of a relationship than a friendship.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: As he described, I've got three stories so far. What
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Lisa he described on the witness stand. Uh, friends with
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: benefits with how he described his relationship to Nora Andrew Hamrick.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: During her police investigate interrogation, Nora Jackson says she was
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: out at the Italian Festival that night. She went to
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: two parties after that at friends homes. At six a m.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: She tells police she went to a gas station to
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: buy cigarettes, then went to another friends home at three
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: thirty a m. There's a big gap right there. Coincidentally,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: at the time her mother is murdered. A m. She's
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: buying cigarettes. Three thirty a m. She's at a friend's house.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: That's a two and a half hour, two hour and
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: forty five minute gap. Then at four twenty a m.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: She buys gas and heads home. Cops point out no
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: activity on her cell phone between one and three a m.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: She forgot to tell police. She went to a Walgreens
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: at four a m. The surveillance video shows she asked
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: a cashier for a paper towel, not just to buy
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: band aids. She has to get a paper towel to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: stop the bleeding from her hand. Then she buys bandages
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in a bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Okay. Cops believe Jennifer
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: was murdered between one and four a m Several prosecution
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: witnesses state that Nora gave them different excuses from broken glass.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: She told one person a barbed wire, another person cooking
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: mac and cheese, and then the other person says she
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: said a cat scratched her, a kitten scratched her while
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: she was trying to get it out of the garage.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: M hmm, okay, it's starting to look bad for her.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Take a listen, judge for yourself. Here is Nora Jackson's
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: nine one one call from What's Good that doesn't one
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: knew even avenue. What's the phone coming back? My mom?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Because my mom is breathing. She's breathing, breathings, not breathing,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: not breathing. Blease them with anyone's shot like every clease,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I need a puttying. I didn't a mother burying nine
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: years old? Oh my god, oh my god, clean, please
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: help me, please in come Okay looking to me, ma'am,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I ne can't calm down. Okay, so we can help
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: your mother. Okay, breezy, okay, listen to me. Did you
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: see what happened? No, my good, fe long if someone
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: broken through your home, he had one still get my
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: kicking out of the kicking in his gloss everywhere in
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: your three Okay, we have help on the way. We're
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: going to help your mother. Only right now, man, money
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: canna come now, we can help her. Okay. Prosecutors say
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that Nora Jackson murdered her mother to get access to money.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about a lot of money. In fact, Nora's uncle,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Eric Sherwood, Jennifer's brother, states he heard Nora and her
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: mother discussing the mom's assets and life insurance policies just
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: one week before his sister is found stabbed dead. Alan,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you have questions, as do I about some evidence found
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: at the scene. What's your concern? Well, why didn't they
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: test the blonde hair found in the grasp of the mom?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Nora didn't have blonde hair? Whose hair was that? I mean?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Did they not want to know? This reminds me so
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: much of the O. J. Simpson crime scene and that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: there should be a lot of evidence around footprints, DNA
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: from the perpetrator, that kind of thing. But that's completely
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: absent from this crime scene. Is she's so brilliant in
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: cleaning up and that did she stage the blonde hair
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: in her mother's grasp? Why didn't they test it and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: find out. Lisa, what do we know about that? I
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: don't know why they didn't test it, and that's just
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: been a nagging question. Um. The judge said, he offered
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the money to actually have that test performed to the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: defense team, and they chose not to test the blond hairs.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: But is it their job to do that? Oh? Whoa,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you're so right about that? Hold on Alan before he
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: started crying and sobbing about a hair that wasn't tested.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I agree with the prosecution, who has to do that?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Quite a minute. The prosecution doesn't have to do anything.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: The prosecution has to carry a burden, and they didn't
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: test the hair. Now, if it were me, I would
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: have wanted the hair tested. But let me point out
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: that the mom had her hair bleach blonde and the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: daughter had her hair bleached blonde. I don't know if
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it was blonde at the time though, but they both
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: had put highlights in their hair. And it's interesting to
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: me that neither side wanted to test the hair. Um,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So the the defense could have had it tested for free. Right,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: they can ask for tests just like the state does.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: The state doesn't have to do that, and if the
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: defense wanted it tested. They could have it detested. Have
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: it tested. I've got another issue. The phone calls around
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: UM three eighteen a m. Nor Jackson starts using her
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: phone again. She calls a friend named Eric Whittaker, asking
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: him wanting to come over to his house and hang out.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: This isn't three eighteen in the morning. He agreed. She
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: drove to his house, but when she got there, he
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: was just leaving by the time she got there, so
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: they only chatter for two or three minutes and she
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: left all right. Next four oh one a m. About
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: one hour before she calls nine one one. That's when
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: she goes to Walgreen. But there's another phone call, isn't
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: there a phone call to a friend Around twelve fifty nine,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: that's one am in the morning, a friend of Nora's
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: gets a hang up from Norah's home phone where the
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: mother is murdered. We don't know whether it was nor
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that made the call, but just ten minutes later one
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: oh nine, she calls from her cell phone and leaves
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a voicemail, but she says she wasn't home. Is that true? Um? Uh?
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: The friend you know who received a phone call from
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the landline just said that. Um. There's no way that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Jennifer would be calling him, and that Nora always called
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: his cell phone. But there was a phone call from
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the Jackson home land line um at that time. I mean, Alan,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: has my mother ever called? You know? She's never done that? Okay,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: So don't you think it would be a little odd
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: for Nora to now argue it was her mother callowing
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: calling her friends at one o'clock in the morning. It
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: had to be here. He's at home at the time
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of the murder. Alt If I'm looking for my daughter
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: at one o'clock in the morning, I might call one
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: of her friends. I probably have done that before, so
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: that's not unusual. But but the fact that she called
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: would never called before. Ever, she had not even called
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Nora looking for Nora, according to the phone call the
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: phone records. Don't you think if she was looking for
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Nora should call Nora first, of a friend she doesn't
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: even know. I'll give you that, But I think it's
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: more unusual, believe it or not, that there's no DNA
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: evidence linking this Nora to the crimes. Would there be?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: There was no sex attack, blood dripping blood, Where are
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: her bloody clothes? You can't stab somebody fifty times and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: not get blood on you. Let's talk about clothes, because
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Nora changed her clothes. Mm hmmm. She began wearing immediately,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: including at the funeral, long sleeves and with then hold
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the sleeves over her hands with her fingers up under
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: the sleeves. I'm glad you brought that up, Alan, thank
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: you so the clothes. She did change her clothes that evening.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: But you're right. The defense points out the lack of
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: forensic evidence that an evidence that points away from Nora.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Beside the cut on her hand, no bruises or any
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: other injuries. Even her manicured nails were not chipped. Norah's
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: blood was not found at the scene, and the mother
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: had blonde hair in her hand. Now, preliminary tests excluded
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Nora as the source of those hairs, but it no
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: one tested it any further. There was no d NA
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: known from anyone on the victim's pillow or the blood
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: soaked bedsheet. So you're right. The d n A does
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: not help the state at all. Um, Why would somebody
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: go out and start partying at four o'clock in the morning, Alan,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: It's hard for me to relate to that at this age.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: But when I was eighteen years old, I did that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I did that. I didn't attack anybody. I didn't. That's
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: just me. Hey, no place where we left off, we
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: were talking to thank you? Uh question regarding the money.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: As we speak, Nora Jackson is waging a battle to
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: get her mother's over one million dollar estate. Just so
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: you know, Nora Jackson was convicted in her mother's murder,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: but as fate would have it, the prosecution failed to
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: turn over a piece of evidence and the whole thing
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: was reversed. She was set free. She then pled guilty
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: under an Alfred plea, which means I don't admit and
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I don't deny, but I'm pleading guilty. Her lawyers say
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the reason she did that is to avoid any more
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: jail time. Nora Jackson is walking free today. The death
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: of her father remains unsolved, his murder, and she is
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: mounting a battle for her mother's estate. Lisa, is that true?
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: That is true? But I believe they have reached a private,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: confidential agreement on the on the money. Um, what do
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: you you what? What's the amount of the estate. It
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: was um a million and a half and um the
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: siblings Jennifer's two sisters and brother would have received that
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: money and had received it, but they did reach an
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: agreement with Nora. There was some sort of a settlement
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: that was confidential there. So that's so because of their conviction,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's siblings got the money and then they had to
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: wait a settlement to give a portion of it. Genera,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: is that what you believe happened. They didn't have to
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: they they could have had a civil trial, and um
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: they had. They had filed the paperwork for that because
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: you have to do that within one year of the murder,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and but instead of proceeding with that civil trial, they
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: chose to reach an agreement with Nora. Thank you for
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: being with us, Lisa Hickman, author of Stranger to the
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Truth on Amazon dot com. You can also go to
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Stranger to the Truth dot com. It has its own website.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Climb Stories. Goodbye friend, m sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sassasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss s