Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / MVP Perspective: Justin Morneau on October Baseball, Payrolls & Building a Winner

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MVP Perspective: Justin Morneau on October Baseball, Payrolls & Building a Winner · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings alongside Chet West. I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: am Thad Levine. Chet, we've got a fabulous guest today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hailing from New Westminster, British Columbia, Justin Morneau was drafted
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: by the Minnesota Twins in 1999 as a catcher. He
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: spent over a decade anchoring the Twins lineup, before since
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: with the Pirates, Rockies, and Chicago White Sox. Across his
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: 14-year career, Chet West has been a Justin was a
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: four-time All-Star, a two-time Silver Slugger, and a 2008 Home
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Run Derby champion, a question we may ask about him later.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: In 2006, he took home the ultimate prize as the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: American League Most Valuable Player and later captured the 2014
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: National League batting title with the Colorado Rockies. Justin now
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: serves as the television voice of the Minnesota Twins. A
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Minnesota Twins Hall of Famer and Team Canada World Baseball
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Classic player and coach, Justin has the advanced technical chops
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to be an elite Major League hitting coach and a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: strategic mind to be a championship Major League manager. Justin,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: welcome to Rosters to Rings.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Thanks. I appreciate the intro. That was pretty good.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: You left a few things out, though. He's got those
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: long intros for our guests, and he did omit a
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: few things. I don't know if you know this, but
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Justin is a movie star. He was in the movie 42.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen that credited work or not.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: He's also, and more importantly, and this is my Justin
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Morneau memory. I'll say it right off the bat here.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: This is the coolest thing I think I ever saw.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: I believe he is a card carrying member of the
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: 10 club, which is the Pearl Jam fan club. He
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: and Eddie Vedder have quite the relationship from what I understand.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I went and saw the last time Pearl Jam showed
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: up in town here. I went to both shows and
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Justin Morneau got a little action there. And mid show,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Eddie called him out. He wore a hat that he
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: gave him. Apparently you guys are buddies. What is that
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: all about?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the coolest things I think
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: that's ever happened to me. I was standing at the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: concert and we got a suite and we were sharing
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: with a few friends and I'm in the back eating
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: chips and all of a sudden that kind of stops
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: the show and kind of house lights come up and
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: he goes through the whole intro and then all of
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: a sudden I hear my name called from the stage
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: and go out there and wave and the spotlight comes
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: up somehow he knew it was sitting and that goes
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: back to it was, that was incredible. I mean, that was, uh,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: that was something I, we've, we've, I've known him for,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: she's probably going back like 15 years now, but that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: was a Ron Coomer. Yeah.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, so Coom, longtime Cubs and a lot of radio
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: with the Cubs, but he was with, he was with
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: us also. So he knew him. And back when he
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: kind of introduced us to him, he came into Seattle and, and, uh,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most surreal things that you'll ever happen,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: especially as a kid who grew up on the West coast,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: not too far from Seattle and, and, uh, with, you know,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: that right age for all the grunge and all that
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: music that was coming out at that time. And I'll
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: shorten it a little bit, but so we're, we're coming
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: through the handshake line after the game, we win and
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Ed would come in. He, he would come into the
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: visiting clubhouse and there was a keg in the visiting
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: clubhouse and he would come in and he would have
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of beers during the game. And so we
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: come in, we come hit post game and Ed's in
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: the handshake line. And so like we're high-fiving Eddie Vedder
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: coming through after we just get done beating the Mariners.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: It's so surreal. And just getting to know him, getting
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to see a few shows over the year, getting to
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: spend time with him and get to know him as
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: a human being. I think he's just an incredible person.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's something that there's things you have to
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: kind of pitch yourself as you go through your career.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And that's one of those things like as a kid
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: playing wiffle ball in my backyard, I never imagined it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I get done playing a big league game and Eddie
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Vedder's in the handshake line.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: They're my number one all-time band. Off the top of
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: my head, I can't think of anybody that's had a
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: bigger music influence on me. I love music now probably
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: because of Pearl Jam. I heard that at that show
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: and I was like, you've got to be kidding me.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: I'm like, Justin, what? Eddie seems to have these relationships
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: with various sports teams. Their band seems to stay connected.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: They do a whole baseball theme tour thing, but I
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: thought that was awesome. And that's my, that's the thing
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that I'll, everybody mentioned just more at all. I'm like,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I think he's buddies with Eddie Vedder. I remember seeing
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: this thing at the show. That's great. Well, either way,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: I cut off our, our intro there to, to make
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: sure we got that out. But Justin, this is, this
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: is our edition then.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: This is our Eddie Vedder portion of the show.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Sean Casey, who is one of the most dynamic, funny
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: people I've ever been around. It tells a story about
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: how he taught Eddie Vedder how to hit a little
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: bit in the cage. In return, Eddie Vedder taught him
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: a few chords on the guitar. But then they had
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: a special moment where they did an axe-throwing event. I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: think what sounded like maybe an Eddie Vedder's backyard. And
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Sean Casey famously says how he missed high and in
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: and knocked over Eddie Vedder's fence with an axe because
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: he threw it right through the fence.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Perhaps....
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, we got to do that too.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: We got to go down to his place in the
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: water in Seattle and he called it the first night game.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: He's such a huge Cubs fan that he remembers the
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: first night game at Wrigley. So we played the first,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: we went over there and threw axes at his house.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: He set up lights and he had a few of
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: his friends over from Seattle and we had It was Domet, Burton,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Jerry Burton. Oh, man, I'm going to leave a bunch
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: of guys out. But we went over there. So he's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: got like this collection of skull caps that he gets
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: from catchers. So he got like a catcher's helmet from Domet,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and that's what everyone has to wear when they're throwing axes.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Is that why he's always wearing the flapless hat? He's
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: always wearing the flapless helmets. Is that where he gets
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: them from? He's getting them from the catchers.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: So he'll get them from the catchers. So the catchers
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: will give them to him. But he has these two
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: cabinets that you open up, and it's like– And you
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: look at it and you're like, I can't wear that team.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I can't wear that team. So you kind of go
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: through and pick out these old skull caps to throw
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: axes in his backyard. Oh, that's great.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, safety first. Safety first.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Fantastic tidbit.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: We don't have to talk about baseball at all today, Justin.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: We'll just do Pearl Jam and your experiences with Eddie
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Vedder for the whole show. At any rate, I cut
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: that out. We got to cover our sports origins.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, rating this back in. So Justin, one of the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: traditions on Rosters to Rings is we ask every guest,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the one tie that binds us all together is we
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: all love sports. And we're just curious, what's your sports
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: origin story? How did you fall in love with sports
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: as a kid?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, from what I, all I remember is that's
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: all I ever wanted to do. I mean, still to
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: this day, I have a really hard time sitting still.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I need to be in motion. I need to be moving.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And sports kind of did that for me. It kind
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: of occupied my brain and allowed me to get all
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: that energy out. And I think if you asked me
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: in hockey season, I'd tell you that I wanted to
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: play for the Boston Bruins and which for a kid
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: growing up in Vancouver is completely random, but you know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Andy Moog was my favorite goalie. And I remember them
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: playing in the Stanley cup finals against the Oilers and
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: And so there was that kind of whole thing. And
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: then if you asked me during baseball season, I told
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: you that baseball is my favorite sport. So it was
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: kind of, it was just something I always wanted to do.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: And my parents both played fast pitch softball and I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: used to hang out. And I say this kind of
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: like jokingly, but kind of how Vladdy Jr. grew up
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: around ballparks. I grew up around ballparks. They were just
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: different ballparks, but I was always exposed to the game.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: My brother's a year and a half older than me.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So I always just, you know, you have that older brother,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: you're trying to play keep up with him and his friends.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: So you get to play and So you don't get dominated.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And so it's just something I always did. And I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: think back to one of my first Christmas presents. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: don't remember getting it. I think I just remember from
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: seeing the pictures of it. But it was this pitching machine,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: this wiffle ball pitching machine. You could load up like
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: 12 wiffle balls in it. And it had like this,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: almost like this iron mic type arm. And it would
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: throw and I would load that thing up. But I
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: know I loved hitting from the first time I picked
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: up a bat. My mom hit left-handed. My dad stuck
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: me on that side of the ball and I never...
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I never ever wanted to hit right-handed, thankfully, so I
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: think that helped me in my career. It was just
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: something that from the time I can remember, all I
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: ever wanted to do was pick up basketball with my
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: friends in the backyard or in the lane or play
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: wiffle ball or street hockey or whatever it was. We
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: were constantly moving. I grew up in an area where
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: you could ride your bike a couple of blocks to
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: your friend's house. There was a group of three, four, five,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: six of us that would get together and just compete
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: and have fun and play.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: What was the breaking point there between hockey and baseball?
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: When did hockey give way to baseball for you?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: What I realized, it wasn't good.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Enough. That's a good sign.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I wasn't terrible. The World Junior Championships we had in
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Minnesota last year around Christmas, New Year's, and there's a
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: few levels that you have to clear before you get there.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: There's your, you know, kind of your area, then use
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: your region is your province. And then you go to
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the national team and that sort of thing. So I
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: went to the tryout in the spring kind of after
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: our season and, and didn't make it out of the first,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: first level of cuts. So I think the writing was
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: kind of on the wall. I was starting to get
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: more attention for baseball. Some of the scouts were starting
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: to come around and, and start to have those conversations.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I was right around the time I was 16 years
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: old and, and, and, I just kind of figured the
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: path was there. And I think the other thing that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: my dad, he never talked about me getting drafted. He
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: never talked about playing professional baseball. All he ever talked
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: about was getting an education. You know, he dropped out
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: of high school and he ended up going back and
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: finishing later, but he knew he understood the importance of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: an education and all his thought was ever see if
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: you can get good enough to get yourself a scholarship.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: That's all he ever talked about with it, with it.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: There was no pressure on, you know, you need to
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: go in the first round or you I'm paying all
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: this money. So you play professional baseball. It was never
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: about that. It was about, use this as a vehicle
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: to get yourself a scholarship so you can get an education,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: then it can lead to better things down the road.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of how it was put in front
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: of me. and for me it was that path seemed
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: a lot not easier but you had junior college you
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: had four-year schools and then you did have the option
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: of being drafted but there was there was kind of
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: more avenues to take you know for hockey for a
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: kid in Canada it was like you go play major
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: junior you leave home at 16 your education is going
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: to suffer because you're playing a 72 game schedule and
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I was on the Portland Winterhawks roster. So I would
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: have had to move to Portland, Oregon and enroll in
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: high school there and try and keep up with my studies.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't, you know, I didn't lack intelligence. I
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: just didn't like school. So I knew that if I
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: left home and I didn't have somebody there kind of
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: pushing me along, telling me you need to get your
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: work done, that my education was probably going to suffer.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And then the thing that my dad stressed to me
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the most probably would have gone away. And I, who
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: knows if I would end up going to school. So
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I think, It sort of just made sense, the baseball path.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: And I loved hockey and I played basketball in high
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: school too, but baseball I think I was a little
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: better at and just sort of that path of if
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, you end up with a college
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: degree out of this whole thing.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, Justin, one thing fans may not know about you
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: is that you still play hockey. You have a rink
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: in your backyard at your home in Minnesota. Can you
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: tell the fans just briefly, when you guys play pickup hockey,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: who are some of the guys who come over and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: skate with you?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: It gets pretty competitive. I mean, it's funny because it's
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Corey Koski will come over a lot. Joe Maurer, he
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: put up his own rink a couple of years ago,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: but so it was like us three baseball guys and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: then whatever hockey guys. And we always played during the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: week during the day because the puck hanging off the
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: boards makes a lot of noise. When you have young kids,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: mom doesn't appreciate them being woken up by a slap shot.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So we would play during the day and there's most
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: people are working during the day. So it's, it's usually
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: retired athletes. So Mark Parrish had a great career. He
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: would come over a lot. Blake Sloan's a guy that
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: has come over recently. We had Dubnik right after he retired.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: He would come over and skate, and he didn't want
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to put on the pads anymore. So we play just
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: a pond hockey style, no goalies, and my rule is
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: no shin pads so that nobody's firing shots when somebody's
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: standing in front of them. So we kind of just
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: go out there and play. I mean, the amount of
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: guys we've had, you know, Ryan Malone will come over.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: So we've got some cup winners that will come over,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: and And it's funny because we're going like 99%, and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: these guys are going like 30%. Like Dustin Bufflin's out
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: there skating. He doesn't even tie his skates, and he
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: just dominates the whole thing. And it's just so funny
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: to see those guys.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: The saunters around.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: They humor us a little bit. He goes right through
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: you guys. Yeah, and just his hand. It's ridiculous to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: see those guys' hands. I mean, you see it. I mean,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I was a goalie, so I don't really look that
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: good on the ice anyway. But it's just so crazy
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: to see up close when those guys– just it's the level, right?
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: It's the level of there's everybody's kind of here and
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: to be the one of 800 in the world or
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: whatever the numbers end up being, it's just a different level.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And then to see it, even retired guys and how
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: good they are. And then, and then just to compete
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a little bit, I think that's most of it is,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: is just, you don't really lose that competitive fire. You
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: don't make it to that level without having, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: being a true competitor. And I think that's something we
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: all miss when we get done. So it just gives
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: us a little taste of that. And we get to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: tell stories and we get in the locker room, we
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: get a little, um, getting that environment of, of making
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: fun of each other, you know, poking each other a
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: little bit and, and, and kind of, you know, getting
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: after each other and then trash talking whoever won. And
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: so like, it's, it's fun. I'm looking forward to that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not looking forward to when it's, you know, five
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: degrees outside, but at the same time, it gives us
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: something to do. So.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Sounds like a great retirement to me, folks. Don't go anywhere.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: When we come back, Justin's going to give us some
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: insight on the current MLB playoff format and our, and
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: our matchups that we see out there. on Rosters to Rings.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Welcome back, folks. We're here with Justin Morneau, and we
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: want to dive into the playoffs. We want to get
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: your thoughts kind of on, maybe not just the modern
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: day postseason, but it's changed over the years. What if
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: what if any changes would you make to the existing
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: MLB playoff format right now, Justin, what do you see
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: out there that you might change?
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: This is hard because it's, it's, I liked what was
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: just proposed the longer division series round. I think that
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: makes sense. I think depth plays out over a longer series.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I think so. If it's a, you can't get away with,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and they almost did, but the way the white socks
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: kind of ran it, where it was openers and matchups and,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: all that thing to try and do that for seven
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: games is, is nearly impossible. And I think they almost
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: got away with it. They almost won that series and
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: they were in a good position. They didn't do it,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: but I think I liked the thought of lengthening out
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that series, especially being a hockey guy and, and you know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: what's better than seven rounds of the playoffs. Now my
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: concerns about it are the usage of the pitchers and
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: how we go about this and seeing Kate Smith throw
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: two innings back to back days when he never did
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: that during the regular season. And the way we overextend
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: guys and at risk of injury is, Now, obviously, fans
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: don't want to hear about this, but also you're paying
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Shohei Otani 160th of what he makes during the regular season,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: going through a month of baseball in the postseason. So
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the way players are compensated isn't really the same. Now,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: is it good for the game? More playoff baseball? I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: think so. I think the idea of shortening the season,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I like that, especially if it allows us to see
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: less roster movement, if it allows us to see more
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: consistency so fans show up to the park and they
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: know that the best players are going to play as
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: opposed to having that rest day. If it does that
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: during the regular season, then it leads us to the postseason.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I like that idea. But I think the reseeding, I
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: think we ended up having, you could argue, that the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: three best teams in the American League kind of all
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: played each other in the first two rounds. And that's
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: no knock on Cleveland. They're a fantastic baseball team. It's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: no knock on Chicago. But those three teams in the East, Tampa,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: New York, and Boston kind of limited each other. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: if there was a way to make sure we have
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the best teams play each other when we get to
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the ALCS and the NLCS, I think we have it.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: In the National League, you could argue that the Padres
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: are right there with those teams. So I think if
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: you're able to kind of reseed like they suggested, I'm
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: not sure the picking of the opponent, that seems a
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: little gimmicky to me, but whatever. If it creates interest, fine,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: but I don't need that. But to have one and four,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it's the same mistake they're making in the NHL right now.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I think you have the three best teams. You have Colorado,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you have Dallas, and you have Minnesota, same kind of deal.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: one of those three teams is going to be eliminated
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: in the first round, and you lose the best teams
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: as you go through the postseason. So I think if
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: our goal is to have a true world series of
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the two, if the best team in the National League,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the best team in the American League, I think it's
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: with longer series. The concern I have with them saying
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: they want to do it to add more off days,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I think that to me is just going to end
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: up with even harder for hitters– Because the pitchers are
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: going to be fresh and you're going to be facing
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: these guys and you're going to be facing these top
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: end arms. And they say, well, we want to see
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the starters be able to extend it more. I think
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: your starters are not going to pitch as deep. I
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: think we're going to see the starters be done after
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: four innings, basically, to go to that bullpen because all
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: your bullpen guys are going to be fresh. So you're
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: going to end up with matchups. And I think that's
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: one of the big complaints that people have is I
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: show up to watch a starting pitcher matchup, even watch
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the Mizorowski scooble, right? You hope that's going to be
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: a Jack Morris, John Smoltz type. I know we're never
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: going to get back.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: You want to see them both go six, seven innings
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: in battle.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. But I think if we add in more
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: off days, if those bullpens are fresh, I mean, the manager,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: we're not going to make that mistake anymore. It's not
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: going to be Pedro left in the game anymore. It's
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: going to be or Harvey. It's not going to you're
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: not going to you're not going to make that mistake.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: You're going to go to that fresh arm in the bullpen.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: That guy coming in throwing ninety nine to one hundred.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And you're going to live and die with that matchup
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: as opposed to a third time through as you guys
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: at 87 pitches. You're not going to let them see
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: that middle part of the lineup. And I don't disagree
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: with that, but I just think that if you add
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: in more off days in the postseason, then that's what
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you're going to do. Now, the flip side of it,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I know why you're doing it because I said it
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: before the playoffs even started. We're trying to grow the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: game for the youth. We want to have younger fans,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: but then we're playing playoff games on a Monday and Tuesday.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: At 1 o'clock central. The kids are in school. People
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: are at work. You're not engaging those young fans. So
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: they're missing half of the playoff games. So I understand
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that's why they want to do it. Now, the NHL
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: and the NBA don't have any problem having four playoff
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: games going at the same time. If one game's bad,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you flip to another one. I don't think you have
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to do it that way. I don't think you have
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: to stagger them and play them from 2 o'clock to
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: 9 o'clock or whatever it is. I think you could
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: have them at the same time. So I don't know.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That's kind of my thoughts on it.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: So that's, I mean, Thad, he just touched on something
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: you and I have talked about on this show with
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: the pitcher usage and kind of how things are shaking
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: out there and whether that's an evolutionary thing or if
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: it's a situational thing where they have to do this
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: based on the schedule. What are your thoughts to that?
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's something to that. You know, I think
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: there's so many different angles to this, and I agree
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: with a lot of what you're saying, Justin, and maybe
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: this is just a unique season, but you look at
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the American League format overall, you mentioned it, the three
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: best teams were on the same side of the bracket.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: The Cleveland Guardians end up getting a bye in the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: American League. They wouldn't have made the field in the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: National League. They had the 11th best record in Major
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: League Baseball. They end up getting a bye. They actually
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: were one game behind the Arizona Diamondbacks, who didn't even
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: make the field in the National League. And as a result,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and once again, just kind of circumstantial, no knock on
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the White Sox or the Houston Astros, is they had
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to beat one of those two teams to ultimately get
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to the ALCS, which, you know, as you know, Players
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: play their whole career and don't get to the championship series.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: And here they were going to either play a team
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: with 81 wins, which was the lowest number of wins.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: ever for a division winner, or they were going to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: play the White Sox, a team that had lost a
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: hundred games three times in a row. And they ended
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: up getting to the ALCS and Tampa now has a
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: route to go to the world series, which feels a
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: little bit more smooth sailing, shall I say, than, than most.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: And I just, you know, Before we jump off this,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious. You just gave the kind of big
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: picture perspective. Let's say for a second, and no one's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: crying for the New York Yankees, but if you were
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a player on the New York Yankees, you finished eight
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: games above the Cleveland Indians this year. You get to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: play the Red Sox in the first round for a
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: chance to play the Tampa Bay Rays. How do you
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: feel about that? I know we all say just play
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the team in front of you, but surely you've got
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: to be walking into that feeling like, hey, we got
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a rough shake this year.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think you're... You try not
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to let that stuff play into your mindset and you
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: kind of just play the hand you're dealt. But you're right.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: You're looking at it going, man, if we were this
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: or if they receded this way or if it started
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: out in a different format, we would have a little
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: better path. And I think that's kind of the way
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: it is. But I think the other way you can
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: look at it is if they're the two best teams,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: eventually you're going to have to play them anyway. And
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's that sort of thing. But we would
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: rather see that. Would you say, okay, we'd rather have
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a seven-game series to try and beat Tampa and see
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: if our depth plays out. And if we have time
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: to maybe judge us healthy, that's a whole different thing.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: But I think you kind of look at it and
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: you just say, this is the hand we've been dealt
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and we've got to play it. And eventually we'd have
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: to beat them anyway. So you try not to, I think,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: worry about the things you can control. I think that's
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest lessons you can learn as a
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: player is Things are out of your control. What can
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: you control? You can't control the weather. If the weather sucks,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: if it's 38 degrees, you've got to play. If it's 90,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: 98 degrees, you've got to play. There's certain things that
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: you just have no control over. The thing maybe more
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: than anything that frustrated me in the playoffs was playing
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a playoff game at 2.38 p.m. a start time that
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: you never have during the regular season. And I think
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: so many of these games, we want to put the
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: best game on display, but then we're playing these games,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: and I say it all the time, and Corey Provost
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: makes fun of me all the time, but I bring
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: up the shadows and the hitting conditions, and it is
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: so hard to hit in the big leagues. And then
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: add on top of it, the ball disappears halfway to
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: the plate, and I don't think we're getting the best
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: version of what baseball is. And I think that may
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: be more than anything. The game times may be less
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: than the matchups. I think it's the game times that
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: maybe bothered me more than anything.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Good for TV, not so much for the player. And
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: when I start thinking about this stuff as the fan,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I look at a series that's like a wildcard series,
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: a three-game series. I feel ripped off. I'm sorry. The
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: one game was awful, the one game play-in. The three-game
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: series is just a tease. I need at least five
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: games to determine who should advance on personally as a fan.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I would be very angry if I was a Cub
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: fan or a Philly fan. We get to the playoffs
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: and I don't even get to see a home game.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, not one home game out of that whole
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: entire thing. Give each team at least one home game
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: to try and catch the fans' fear and try and
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: catch things going back. I mean, you saw it. The
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Yankees got swept by the Rays, but they at least
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: got the one home game to try and enjoy the
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: home playoff atmosphere, and their fans get to enjoy it, too.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: So that's where I think things kind of get shorted.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: But you are asking players to play more games, then,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: if you're going to keep the format the way it is.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: So I do.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: See that it's, you know, you're... Sorry, I was going
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: to say, you're asking them to play more games for
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: less money, which everybody's compensated by.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, more games, less money, and travel.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I understand that, but you're adding something in there, more intensity,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and you're asking them to do more for less, and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: that's something that I think is an issue that needs
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: to be, I don't know if it needs to be
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: addressed or if it's something that will be addressed in bargaining.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: But I think for me, that's an issue. But yes,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you play, occasionally you get those two-game
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: series that get stuck in the schedule, at least we
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: used to when you played your division a lot more.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, two games, that's not even a sweep. I mean,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: we talk about it all. They swept them in the playoffs.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: It's like they beat them twice. To me, that's not
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: a sweep, and that's not a test of are you
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: a better team or not. Anybody can beat any. I mean,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Colorado won series, and they lost more games than anyone
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: this year. But they beat a team two out of
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: three a bunch of times this year. I mean, it
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: can happen to anybody. So to me, it's not showing
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: who has the most talent or who has the best team.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: It's just sort of we wanted more teams in the playoffs,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: and this is the only way we can squeeze it
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: in the current format with the schedule.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Who popped for a couple days is kind of what
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: it reminds me of more than anything else, and not
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: so much. Who got hot for a 48-hour period? So
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: we'll transition a little bit, and we are going to
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: get to some CBA stuff here in a little bit,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: but let's finish out our playoff thoughts here. From 2023
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: to 2025, the White Sox lost 100-plus games each year.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: They were miserable. They amassed a staggering 162-and-324 record, 162
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: games under. 500. So based on a lot of modeling
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: and fan graphs, you know, they're kind of at the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: forefront of our projections and our stats here in baseball.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: They had the White Sox at a 1% chance of
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: making the playoffs, projected them to finish in last place.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I projected them to finish in last place. I thought
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: they would be pesky for the AL Central. They were
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: more than that. They make the playoffs. They win a
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: playoff series. Have you had experience playing on a young
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: team that had no expectations that all of a sudden
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: clicks and perhaps kind of becomes successful earlier than expected?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And how did the players and how did things kind
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: of shake out from there? Do you see kind of
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: maybe a rougher road ahead with expectations for the White Sox?
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Or do you think that, hey, they did it a
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: year early, everything's going to be, you know, they'll just
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: repeat next year?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I said this at the end of the end of
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: 25 when they came in and you could kind of
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: see it building and you could see it. And I
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: looked out there and I went, they have more talent,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: young talent on their roster than what we have right
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: now as, as, as the twins just sitting up in
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the booth, just, you know, the bird's eye view of,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of what do you see? Didn't probably see it happening
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: as soon as, as possible as it did, but there
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: was talent there. They, they did a great job in
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: that crochet trade. I mean, players on that roster throughout
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the playoffs and, and, Unfortunately, the main thing they were
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: missing was having a guy like Eric Roche on the mound,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a starter that could give them something deep and go
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: deep in the game. I think there was plenty of
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: talent there. I think when there's us against the world
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: and there's not expectations, I think you're able to go
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: out there and learn and play free. You just sort
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: of surprise people. I think a trainer said this to
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: me early in my career. He said, you want to
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: play the The good teams early and the bad teams
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: late because the bad teams don't know they're bad yet.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So when you get off to a good start as
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: a young team, all of a sudden you start, you
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: have this belief, it might be even a delusion that
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: you're a good team. And you kind of ride that
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: wave and they got off to a great start and
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: they were sort of surprising people. And when you go
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: into spring training, and I say this honestly, when you
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: go into spring training, whatever the outside projections are, you
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: have this belief like this is going to be our year.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: We're going to surprise some people. At least that's how
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I looked at it of, I don't care what everybody
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: else says. I look around the room and if this
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: goes right, if this goes right, if this goes right,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: we got a chance to win this division. And I think,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: especially in the central where that seems like it's pretty open.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And I think, but I, and it's hard because when
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: you're on the outside and if you listen to the
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: outside and everyone's saying, well, they're going to lose a
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: hundred games again or whatever it is. And you say, well,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: either get that mindset of we're going to prove them
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: wrong or we're not going to listen to anything. We're
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: just going to go out there and play. And then,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: there's that optimism of spring training and you have 162
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: games in front of you. And all of a sudden
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: you look up and you're in first place in the
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: middle of May and you're going, maybe we are better
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: than what people thought. Maybe we can do this. And
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: you sort of start to ride that momentum and, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: that's kind of what they did. And they had a
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: belief there. And when you have that sort of chip
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: on your shoulder, like it's us against the world, you
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: have a young manager that continues to help you believe
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: that and then puts guys in right spots and gets
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: everybody to buy in. I think you sort of have
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: that momentum and it happens. And I think it also,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: as I said, it's, it's, part of playing in the
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: central i think that's part of the beauty of the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: central is you can have young rosters you're maybe not
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: going to bring in all the free agents and you're
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: not going to retain all those guys as we see
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: scuba get traded out of the division we see guys
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: you know for us johan santana getting traded out of
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the division when i was playing and and you sort
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of see at cc and and it just happens you
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: know team after team you just you're not going to
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: run those 250 million dollar payrolls so you have to
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: build with youth and you have but you have because
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: basically everybody in the division is doing the same thing,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: there's opportunity there. And then when you see that opportunity,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you sort of ride that wave and that's exactly what
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: they did. And it's possible for any team to do
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: that coming into the year. And I think they do that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: They had that belief and all of a sudden they
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: took off and they just rode that wave.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Justin, my, my experience has always been that somehow when
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you're hunting, it's a lot more invigorating when you're being hunted,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: it's exhausting. It's like the equivalent of like sprinting, looking ahead,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: chasing somebody down versus sprinting, looking over your shoulder to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: see who's following you. And I think expectations are the
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: next phase for the White Sox. Nobody's going to be
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: surprised by them next year. They're all going to be prepared.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: They're all going to respect them. And let's see how
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: they do next year. But they've done so exceptionally well
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: this year. They deserve a ton of credit. I think
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you touched on Will Venable. I think he's done a
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: tremendous job managing that roster. But sometimes when you go
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: out there where You're like, why not us? That mentality
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: is so infectious. And I remember Michael Young, who was
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: kind of the captain of our Texas Rangers team when
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: we had our run in 2010. He and I were
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: doing an event speaking to the Dallas Sportsman's Club, and
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we got the obligatory question of how many games are
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: you going to win this year? And Michael said, I'll
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: tell you. this one. And he said, usually I stand
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: in front of you and say, hey, if Anaheim's offense
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: falters or Seattle's pitching's not that good or Oakland has
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of injuries, we have a chance to win.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And he said, I'm standing before you today saying if
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: every team in our division plays to the best of
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: their ability, we're going to kick their ass. And it
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: was like, I think when you get to that point
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: as a team, when you have fewer if-then statements that
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: get you to a championship, the better off you are.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: But it's that mindset. It's that mindset of shifting from
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: believing you can win to expecting you can win and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: then managing those expectations along the way. One thing I
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: just wanted to ask you, Justin, is for the listeners
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: who don't know Justin is one of the most advanced
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: hitting minds I've ever had a chance to talk to.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: We've touched on it a little bit in this discussion,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: just how exceptionally difficult it is to hit in the postseason.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: We see teams like the Atlanta Braves in the postseason
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: really only going with two starters. Everyone else is a reliever.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: So as a hitter, you're facing potentially a different pitcher
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: almost every at-bat in some of these series. It's got
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: to be exceptionally difficult to prepare, but You know, just
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: to throw a few numbers out at you here, the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: four teams remaining in the championship series are all holding
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: their opponents to a sub 200 batting average. Tampa Bay's
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: hitters amazingly have combined to have a 255 on base
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: percentage and a 65 WRC plus, which means they're 35
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: percent below league average. And they're undefeated in the postseason
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: so far. The Dodgers offense. has accumulated a 78 WRC +, 22%
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: below league average, and an amazing 091 batting average with
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: runners in scoring position. And they entered the championship series
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: with a prohibitive 40% chance to win the World Series.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: So from an accomplished hitter's perspective, Justin, did you adjust
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: your approach at all when you entered the playoffs, when
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you know you're only going to face these elite pitchers
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: and runs are such at an incredible premium?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: This is a discussion that... So we have a group
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: chat with a bunch of former Twins, and there's some
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: pitchers on there, there's some hitters on there. And the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: game where the White Sox struck out 21 times against
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Cleveland in the country the other day, I know it's
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: an extreme number, but they're going, just put the ball
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: in play. I'm going, what do you think they're trying
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: to do? I said, they've got a starter. You're basically facing,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: from our time when I played, I retired now 10
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: years ago, you're facing a closer every single at-bat. I mean,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you're facing guys with stuff that– there was five guys
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: across the league when I came in that threw 100
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: and had that type of stuff, and they were finishing
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: off games.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, so it's like– You're referring to Gavin Williams.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, Gavin Williams, and I mean, yes. So it's like–
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: and then you bring in Cade Smith, who's been one
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: of the top five relievers in baseball for the last
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: three years. And it's like– He's out. What? as much
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: as we'd love to see it. And I think this
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: is what's hard for people to watch is the fact
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: that it just looks like they're going up there trying
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: to go deep. And I think when you're facing a
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: hundred and you swing and miss, it looks like you're
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: swinging really hard. And Michael Kodaira and I were talking
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: about this. I said, you know, when you swing and miss,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: you feel like he said, well, why don't you just
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: shorten your swing? So, well, then you feel like the
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: ball's by you by the time you finish your swing.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: So like you, you, you feel like not that you
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: have to swing harder to hit harder, but you have
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: to swing hard to be able to catch up to velocity.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And when you don't hit it, it looks like you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: swinging from your shoes because your swing finishes and you're,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you're expecting to make contact. There's sometimes you swing and
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: you know you're going to miss. And there's other times
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: you swing and you expect to make contact and you don't.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Those are the ones that look like you're, you're off balance.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And because impact of the baseball, all that's going to happen,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: the force is going to hit your bat. So you
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: kind of have to prepare yourself for that. And you
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: release that energy as you're going to hit the ball.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: When you miss that energy looks like it's just going
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: nowhere and you're swinging out of your shoes. So back
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: to your question, um, You have to adjust, but it
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: is so hard to prepare. And I think even in
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the game last night where Milwaukee won 2-1, the team
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: that hit one home run ended up winning the game.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: It's the team that out-homers the other one in the
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: playoffs that wins the majority of the time. So you're
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: trying to maximize those swings every time you can. It's
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: just you're doing it against such good pitching. It's like,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: why don't we just take the Brewers approach or the
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: inning that the Dodgers scored in? There's a good one.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It started with a walk, and then it was just
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: a Kike rolls a ball through the right side. I'm
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: not saying it wasn't good hitting. Don't get me wrong.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: It's hard to hit, but there was some luck involved.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Exit Velo, I think on that ball was 85. We
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: know that anything below 95, your odds of getting a
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: hit are pretty low. So you have to make hard contact.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: You have to make solid contact. So the idea of
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: just putting the ball in play, because then what happened
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: later in that inning when they just put the ball
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: in play, it was a double play. The inning was over.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: They didn't score. They were better off. They're better off
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: striking out on that at bat than they were making contact.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I believe it was Will Smith. So, The thought of,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to go up there and just try
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: and touch it. I'm just going to roll it through. Well,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: are you going to be able to do that and
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: have enough luck on your side with how well we
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: position defenders today to be able to roll three balls
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: through and hope you score a run? The thought of
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: doing that four times in an inning and being able
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to score two. So you have to have some slug.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to have some exit velo.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to go up there and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: maximize that. And I think for me, it was when
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I faced closers to kind of go all the way
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: back around. If I was facing a closer and I
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: knew he was a guy with an elite fastball and
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: an elite slider, I would try and put it in
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a perspective of which pitch is he most likely going
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: to try and get me out with and what am
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I going to look for? Does he not want me
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: to beat him on his fastball? So am I better
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: off going up there looking for the pitch I'm most
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: likely to see? And so that's kind of how I
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: feel you almost have to do it when you're facing
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: these guys consistently in the postseason is I'm looking one pitch,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: one spot, and if he makes a mistake, I cannot
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: miss it. I have to jump all over it and
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I have to do damage on it, whether it's a
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: double and a gap or it's a ball in the seats.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: That's kind of how you have to look at it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what most of these hitters are
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: doing today. And that's why it looks like it's an
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: all or nothing approach when in reality, it's just so
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: hard to hit the lead pitching that we see in
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: the post season. I think that's kind of what it
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: comes down to. And I think it's so hard to
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: string hits together, but it's because you're facing these guys
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: that are just so good.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Do you think that a team that's built around small
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: ball and not power can win a world series? I mean,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: we currently have three teams that were ranked in the bottom, um,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: in power numbers and home runs, uh, throughout the season
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: they're fundamentally defense uh base running you know bunting everything
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: they're great along those lines but they between the rays
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: being ranked 22nd the guardians being ranked 27th and the
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: brewers 29th and the long ball here do you think
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: that they can win a world series using.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Small ball absolutely but i think it's but also they're
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: pitching right there it's the pitching on the other side
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: of it that allows them to do that they don't
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: have to hit three run home runs to get back
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: in the game because they're rarely down by more than
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: one or two So it's not like they're putting pressure
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: on their offense to go up there. And it's not
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: like we've seen from the Yankees in the last few years.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: If they don't hit two home runs, it's very hard
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: for them to win because they're not going to get
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the leadoff guy on. And very few of those guys
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: are going to steal second, manufacture a run. It's how
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: do we get a guy on and try and pop
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: a two-run home? And I think that when you don't
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: have that pressure as an offense, when it's up and
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: down the lineup, there's an understanding of my job is
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: to get on base for the guy behind me. And
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: he's going to try and do the same thing. We're
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: going to grind. We're going to put together great at-bats.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: We're going to sort of force them to throw the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: ball over the plate. And when they do, we're going
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: to put the ball in play. We're going to pressure
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: on the defense because we have speed. We get down
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the line. We force those pitchers to focus on the
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: base runner as opposed to knowing, okay, I've got somebody
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: slower at first. I don't have to hold them on.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to try and see if I can
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: miss this bat right here. Well, I got Chury over
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: there at first. I got Chandler Simpson over there at first.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I have to worry about him stealing second and third.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: So there's that part of it where it's like there's
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: pressure on the pitcher because of the speed aspect of it.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that's, that's about creating runs and then
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: that side of it. And I think I said it
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: last night, I said, I really want to see because
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: twins are out, who cares? I want to see Milwaukee
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and Tampa play in the world series. And I think
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: just that version of baseball is just so much more entertaining,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: but it's also, there's more strategy involved. We saw sack
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: bunt in the game last night, you know, and it
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: led to a run. So like there's, there's that part
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: of it that, is a little more entertaining. We're kind
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: of turning back the clock. And I think it is
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: possible now for the people who say, why doesn't everybody
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: play that way? Well, there's only, there's only so many
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: contact fast hitters that can steal bases and play really
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: good defense, but there's only so many of those across
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: the game. And I think that goes back to a
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: little more on the scouting and the drafting part of
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: it of what did the game call for? Well, it
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: called for, it called for slug and it called for
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: hitting the ball in the seats. And now maybe the
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: game's telling us a little something different that maybe we
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: need to look to that athleticism and, and that part
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: of it. And I think we're seeing teams trend that way.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Justin, one thing that Pat Murphy, the manager of the
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Milwaukee Brewers, said at the beginning of the season, he
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: said that he felt like the Milwaukee Brewers defense would
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: take an out away from the opposition. So both teams
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: start with 27 outs. So he said, we think they'll
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: be playing with 26 because our defense is that good.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And he also felt that our offensive execution and base
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: running would force a mistake by the opposition. So we
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: would get an extra out. So we would be playing
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: with 28. They would be playing with 26. And he said,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Over a season, I bet you that leads to a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: lot of wins. The question, I think, as we're discussing here,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: is does that play over a shorter format in the playoffs?
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: And the crazy thing about the Milwaukee Brewers, Chet mentioned it,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: they finished 29th in home runs. Well, they've out-homered their
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: opponents so far, and they've won four out of five
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: games in the postseason. In each of those games that
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: they've won, I think they've out-homered their opponents. And so
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: it's a remarkable thing. Stay with us through the break.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: On the other side, We're going to get Justin's playoff
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: predictions for the rest of the playoffs in the Major
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: League Baseball. And then we're going to discuss the collective
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: bargaining agreement with him here on Rosters to Rings. Welcome
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: back to our discussion here with Justin Morneau. Justin, before
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: we segue into a discussion about the collective bargaining agreement,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: you just talked about how you would love to see
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: a Tampa Bay Rays-Milwaukee Brewers matchup in the World Series.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: But let's get down to it. Who are you picking
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: in the two, the NLCS and the ALCS? And what
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: is like the X factor for your World Series winner?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: What is something that fans maybe aren't thinking about that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: you think will be instrumental for that team to ultimately
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: hoist the trophy at the end of the season?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: My answer might be different if the Dodgers won game one.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: This is easier to answer after. I think the Dodgers'
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: overall talent over a seven-game series maybe favors the Dodgers
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: in a way, but the fact that they won and
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Mizorowski didn't go seven in game one and the Brewers
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: still won, I think if the Brewers are going to win,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: they'll have to do it in a little shorter order
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: in that series just because of the depth of the rosters.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: But not that the Brewers aren't a deep team, and
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: especially with that bullpen they're running out there. But I
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: think for me it's Mizorowski and then the bullpen, the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: arms you stack up and the way Pat Murphy uses them.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I think it's just– and I think they can win
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: a game where it's 2-1. They have the ability to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: win that game because they're going to catch everything that
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: you hit. they're going to steal a base and manufacture
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a run if you need them to. And I think
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: for the, for the Dodgers with a little older, a
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: little more age on their roster and with some of
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: those guys banged up, they just, they can't play as
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: uptempo as a style that the Brewers play. I like
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the Brewers in that series. I think before the, before
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: the playoffs started, that was the team I picked maybe
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: because I'm hopeful that a smaller market team, maybe in
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: the Midwest can, can win a world series, but also just,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I like the way they play and then the way they're,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: they're put together and what they do. And I think,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to be hard for Cleveland just
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: because that series went so long against the White Sox
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and how they had to just go through everybody and
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: really extend guys. It's going to be hard for them
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: with a rested Tampa team and the way they play
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and the way they're able to manufacture. Kind of the
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: same things I said about the Brewers. That's why I
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: like Tampa. If we need to get a walk and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: then steal second, steal third, or steal second and run
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: them over, some ability to do that, I think... On
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the other side of it, Cleveland's offense, there's guys that
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: are capable of doing it, but it's so dependent on
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: what Jose Ramirez does. And if you're starting that series
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: and you say, all right, whatever we do, we're not
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: going to let Jose Ramirez beat us. Even if we've
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: got first and second, we're not going to give in.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: We're not going to give him that opportunity. And sometimes
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: he just takes it upon himself, as we saw with
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: that home run he hit on that curveball about three
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: inches off the ground. He just takes it upon himself
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: to take a game over. But I think it's just
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: so hard to depend on him to be your sole
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: source of offense. And I think he's able to do it.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: He's had a phenomenal career, and he's carried that offense
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: for a long time. But to be so dependent on him,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and that's no disrespect to the guys around him. He's
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: just played at such an elite level for so long.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I know he had an off year this year, but
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I think he's that X factor for me. But to
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: be so dependent on him and then to expect Kate
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Smith to be able to get five and six outs
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: in every game that they play, it's just putting a
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: ton of stress on him at the back end of that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: So it's not like he's the only guy in that bullpen,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: but he is one of the best relievers in baseball.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: I think Tampa's just set up with the rest, with
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: their pitching, with the way they play. And then I
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: think for me, the X factor, Caminero. I mean, just
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the talent. He has the ability, like Jose Ramirez does,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to take over a game and to take over a series.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And we've seen the power for the last couple of years.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if he has a chip on
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: his shoulder, being that coming from Cleveland, facing his former team.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that matters to him much at this point,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: but I think he's a phenomenal player who's only going
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: to get better. And I think to me, you combine
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: their pitching staff with superstar talent, with speed, athleticism, all
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: of those things. I think I wouldn't be surprised to
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: see a Tampa-Milwaukee World Series with one of those teams
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: either ending the drought or winning their first World Series
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: would be pretty cool for both of those franchises. But
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I think... In the American League, it doesn't matter as
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: much to me. In the National League, I really want
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: to see the Brewers get in, so maybe there's a
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: little more bias in my mind from that, but to
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: see a Tampa-Milwaukee small ball, athleticism, great defense, pitching staff,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: all those things I think would be good for the game.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure Major League Baseball would love it with
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: the smaller markets and not as big a fan base
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: across the country, but I think if you're looking for
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the best version of baseball that we want to see
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: played today, I think that's a great matchup. And I
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised to see Milwaukee go the whole way.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: So you've got Milwaukee and Rays with Milwaukee going the
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: whole way? Is that the prediction?
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: The short version of.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Milwaukee, yes. I love it for baseball. I also love
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it because Milwaukee's paying me. And that certainly influences my
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: fanaticism a touch.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Nobody has come on this show yet and said, I
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: really hope the Brewers lose early. Maybe there's something to that.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: You know, Justin, this is a perfect segue into the
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: collective bargaining agreement. You just referenced it. You know, we
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: all speculate that maybe this is a collective bargaining season
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and maybe the commissioner isn't necessarily rooting for Brewers against
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Tampa or Cleveland, because that kind of debunks this theory
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: that the system is broken and we absolutely need to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: change it. Maybe he wants one more championship out of
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the Dodgers, a three-peat, to be able to drive that
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: point home. From a player's perspective, and also just for
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: the listeners to know, Justin, you served as a union
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: representative when you were in your career. How do you
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: balance this reality that there's about a $ 300 million gap
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: between the highest payroll and the lowest payroll And we
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: want players to earn as much money as they deserve.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, you want to be able
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to believe that in every market, you've got a bona
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: fide chance to win a World Series. And it just
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: hasn't happened in the lower 15 payroll markets for quite
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: some time now. And it doesn't happen as frequently as
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: it should. How do you balance that in your mind?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: And how do we change the game to address these issues?
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: It's tough because if you look at even the playoffs,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: five of the top six payrolls are out now. So
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: it gives you a chance to get in. And then,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: as we've said throughout the show, it's three-game series, all
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: that stuff, kind of a crapshoot in the beginning part
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: of the playoffs of do the best teams advance and
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: go down that road. We already did. But I have
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: a hard time with it because the life I live
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: today is because of the players before me and what
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: they fought for and how they kind of stood up
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: for certain things and player rights and compensation and all
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: those things. I think maybe the thing that bothers me
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: more than anything about all of these arguments is it
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: going to make the game affordable for the fans? Yes,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: everyone wants a chance to win, but also you want
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: to be able to afford to take your family to
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the game. If we lock in prices, does that mean
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: we're going to lock in ticket prices? And I think
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: fans are smart enough to be able to understand these things,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: and they have the ability to look up whatever information
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: they want and how, as opposed to just being what
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: they're told by either side, people could do their own
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: research and people are doing a great job of presenting
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: information from a, from, from the middle. And this is
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: what this side says. This is what that side says.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: So I think it's tough. Is it going to make
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the game better? I don't know, because in the NFL,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: it seems like it's been the chiefs of the Patriots
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: or for the majority of the last 25 Superbowls, they've
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: either been there. And so to me, it's more how
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: a team is managed and how they're run. I mean,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Milwaukee is, Smallest market in baseball, but four straight division titles,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: two straight NLCS appearances. And how they're managed, how they're
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: run is more than anything. And I think, yes, it's
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: tough for Colorado playing in the same market as the
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Dodgers and the Padres. But the Padres are not a
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: large market either. But they've been willing to go for it.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe they've overextended themselves at times. But at the same time,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you want to buy tickets to a game knowing that
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: your team that you're a fan of has a chance
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: to win a World Series. Does the collective bargaining agreement
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Does it change? Does a cap fix those problems? I'm
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: not certain it does. Some of the proposals that we've
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: seen that are being dangled in front of the players,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: to me, well, if you do this, it's only dependent
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: on a cap. If we think it's better for the
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: game to shorten the season and expand the playoffs, why
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: is that contingent upon us having a cap? If it's
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: better for baseball and it's better for fans, then the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: goal should be let's do what's best for the fans
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: as opposed to let's do what's best for compensation for
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: the people who are writing the checks. And you make
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: an investment in a team, you're expecting to make money.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I understand that. Players are making more money than we
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: can spend in a lifetime at this point. So there
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: is that side of it. But I think we need
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: to understand, we need to frame this perspective of the
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: game still has to be affordable. We need to be
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: able to get young fans in the ballpark. We need
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: to be able to get people to be able to
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: come to baseball games and and not end up costing
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: them a month's rent to be able to bring their
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: family to a game. Some of that stuff really is
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: tough to me. I grew up as the son of
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: a teacher, a single mom, and the thought of my
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: mom trying to take us to a Major League Baseball
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: game and spending $ 250 to be able to have us
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: park and watch a game and eat a hot dog
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: and have some popcorn and a drink, that wouldn't have
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: been something that was realistic. I think that it's just
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: kind of crazy to think of that. I don't know
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: if putting in a salary cap lowest ticket prices. I
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: know that hasn't been, I haven't heard that been said
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: at all. So like that to me, what is the goal?
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: It's to stabilize the franchise values and continue the franchise
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: values to go up as opposed to say, we just
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: want to make sure this is affordable, that the next
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: generation of fans becomes fans because they're allowed to come
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to the ballpark and they're allowed to stand 50 feet
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: away from the outfield fence and watch Aaron Judge play
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: in the outfield or watch Byron Buxton patrol the outfield
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: or Jackson Turio play center field, whatever. I think that
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: should be the goal, and I think that's what's been
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: lost in a lot of this. When people are arguing
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: over money, we kind of lose perspective of, what really matters.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: And that's the people who are buying the tickets to
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the games. And that to me, does that fix this?
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I don't know if it's staying
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: in the current format is the best for the game either.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: There has to be some way to figure out what's
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: best for the players, what's best for the fans and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: what's best for the owners. And I think hopefully that
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't result in us losing too many baseball games next
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: year because of it. And hopefully not half a season
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: or longer. I think that would be a mistake for
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: where the game's at. I think that's, Yes, the game's
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: in a good place in a lot of markets, but
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: in some markets it's really struggling, and I think we
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: need to fix that.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: As a fan, I've bounced back and forth on this.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, I have gone from one end of the
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: spectrum to the other where we need a cap, we
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: need team ownership to treat fans a certain way. I'm
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: at this point now with sports in general, professional sports
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: in general, that I like sitting at home, and watching
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: a game on my 80-inch television with my $ 2 beer
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: in my hand that I pulled out of my fridge
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: 10 feet to my left. And I have the atmosphere
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: there that I need when I'm comparing it to going
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: to a ball game and paying $ 25 for a beer,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: which is happening right now in some ballparks across the league.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: But you can't really replace the experience of going to
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: the ballpark. I went to Fenway for the first time
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: this past year. That was amazing. And I paid a
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: King's ransom for tickets, food, the whole shooting match. I
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: still had an excellent time. You can't do that regularly though.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, not on, not on most salary. You're going
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: to do that once a season max. And it's a
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: shame that you can't get out to the ballpark a
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: couple times a year for most families to take the
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: whole family two, three times. So I see what you're
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: saying there. I understand that. If you were to give
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: a piece of advice to the commissioner and the union
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: director about right now and say, guys, here's what would
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: you say? What would you say to him?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: That's a tough question. It's a tough, I mean, let's
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: find a way to work in the middle. I mean,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: to me, like it's almost like baseball.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: The world of politics, right? It's almost like I'm stuck
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: in my side. You're stuck in your side and there's
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: no way.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: We're going to, you are not the first one to
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: say that on this show.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't really know.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: You are not the first person to say that.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's tough because it's like, how do we fix
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: all of these things.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: At the same time? If you side with one side, you're... Yeah.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: If you side with one side, you get labeled this.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: If you side with the other side, you get labeled that.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But I don't have the life that I have if
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: it wasn't for the players before me.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: So like, that's where it's hard for me to go
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: against the players' argument. But at the same time, Glenn
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Perkins and I have had numerous conversations about this, about
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: the Dodgers and how they're able to build depth and
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: all of those things. I think if, if you're going
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: to put a cap on things, I think restricting the
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: front offices and how much, how many people you're allowed
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: to have in there, that's where the advantage I think
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: lies as much as anything. And for the Dodgers is,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: is how many people they're able to employ and how
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: many people they're able to behind the scenes. It's why
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: the Colorado struggle struggle for so long is, one of
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: the smaller front offices didn't dive into the analytics. They
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: waited longer than others to invest in that side of things.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: And that's something that doesn't show up as payroll, right? You're,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: you're spending X amount of dollars and the Dodgers are
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: spending a hundred million, just throwing a random number out there,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: but they're spending a hundred million in Cleveland spending 20
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and in Colorado was spending 10. That's where the advantage is, is,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: is in player development and all those other things, all
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: those other layers that lead to the product on the field.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I think if you're able to, Maybe you centralize all
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: that data. This is something Eric Gagne has talked about
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: of all the information that's available to teams, have it
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: centralized and everyone has access to the same information. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: then you're kind of losing the sort of competitive spirit of, okay, well,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: our front office does it better than the others, or
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: we do this differently than the other ones do it.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: But if there's a way to kind of get all
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: that information available to all the teams in the same way,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: does that level the playing field in some ways, as
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: opposed to just restricting player salaries? I think there's other
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: things you can look at that kind of add to it. Okay,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: like I said before, we're contingent on a salary cap
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to chop up that TV money. Well, if it's best
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: for the game of baseball and you can have parity
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: by doing that, why do you need a salary cap
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: to do that? That's just another argument of how are
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: you going to convince the Dodgers to give up their money?
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: How are you going to convince the Yankees and the
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Cubs to give up their money they're making from their
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: TV networks and share it with Cleveland and with Tampa
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: and with Pittsburgh and some of the smaller markets? How
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: are you going to convince them to do that? Well,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: if we get a salary cap, then we're going to
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: do that and we're going to chop that money up. Well,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: you can do that without a salary cap. And I
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: think that's the thing that's so frustrating for players. So
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: I think stop making these proposals in public that are
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: contingent upon the players doing something that you're saying is
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: for the good of the game. Well, then you're not
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: really making yourself look good in the end, right? And
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: you're just saying, well, we're just going to put pressure
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: on them to get what we want. But we're saying
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: this is for the best thing that's in the game
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: of baseball. And I think that's the hard time that
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: that players are from the player's perspective of going, well,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: if these things are good for the game, then why
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: aren't we doing them anyway? So that's my kind of
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: take on that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Justin, if I can, if I can be so bold when,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: when Chet asked the question about how you would guide
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Rob Manford and Bruce Meyer, I think the answer is
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: exactly the, the, what you talked about earlier is never
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: lose sight of the fan and not the fan who's
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: sitting in the, in the suite, the fan who's sitting
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: in the luxury box with his corporate friends and It's
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the little kid who wants to go to a game
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: with his parents and his grandparents and the sanctity and
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: the beauty that we all had when we were younger.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: And that's how fanaticism starts. And I remember talking to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Byron Buxton once about why he runs into outfield walls
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: so much. And he said there are two reasons. One
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: was he felt every time the ball was in the air,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: he owed it to the pitcher to run it down.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: And he thought he could outrun most baseballs. And he
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: was right. The other thing he said is he thought
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: there was a fan in the stands who maybe had
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: never watched a baseball game and he could convert that
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: person into a fanatic for life. And we just don't
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: allow the fans that type of opportunity if we price
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the game at a point where they can't attend. So
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I wonder if the best advice we could give to
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: both sides is never lose sight of the average fan,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: the fan who is really, you know, trying to make
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: ends meet, but they want to have that, their kids
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: have that experience of being able to fall in love
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: with the game of baseball. And my perspective on the
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: cap is, whether or not we have a cap at
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the top end, I think it's tantamount that we have
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: a cap on the low end. We've got to raise
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: the floor. And if we raise the floor enough, there'll
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: actually be more money in it for the players. So
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the challenge to me, if I was on the union
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: side to the owners, is if we're doing this to
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: create parity, well, let's raise the floor as well as
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: address the ceiling. And by so doing, we may be
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: able to give the players a higher percentage of the
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: money than they're currently getting access to. We can make
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: more parodies so that the fans can believe that their
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: team can win. But in the same stroke, I love
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: your concept of like, let's never lose sight of those
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: fans who desire to go to the games. Not the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: ones who can afford to have season tickets, but the
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: ones who are going to two, three games a year.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: And it's a monumental event for that family. Let's make
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: sure we don't price them out because I think by
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: and large, that's what the NFL and the NBA have done.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: My son wants to go see a bunch of Timberwolves games,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: a bunch of Vikings games. And the reality is it's
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: just pretty prohibitive to go to those games. That's the
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: beauty of baseball is that you are able maybe to
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: go sit in the upper deck, you know, get a
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: hot dog and some popcorn for your kid. And like
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: you could do it and do it affordably. We cannot
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: lose sight of that as we advance this this game
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: at this time.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: I think as a fan, I tend to look at,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: you know, this and if you talk to other fans
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: about this. They get frustrated when a big free agent
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: hits the market and their team doesn't even make an
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: overture or their team didn't ever have a chance to
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: grab that big free agent or trade for that huge
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: contract or something along those lines. They feel, you know,
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: why is our team unable to attract that player here?
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: I am a huge fan of the floor because I
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: think it makes these owners, it forces them to go
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: out and spend money. As a fan, I would much
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: rather see that and the forcing of an ownership or
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: a team to spend some money on the players than
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: struggle through two, three developmental seasons. I mean, a season
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: is long for a fan. You long for the season
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: to start. And then you watch your team scuffle for
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: 162 games because they've got a bunch of young, you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: inexpensive guys coming up the roster that, yeah, we got
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: to wait for them to develop. That's, that's not, there is,
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: there is some excitement to that because you're seeing new
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: young players coming up. But after a little while, it
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: feels like we're, we're hedging a little too much on that.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I'd like to see the owner spend some more money.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: But then you see the same guys going to the
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: same teams. If we could spread out the star power
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: a little bit across the league, I think that'd be.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I go back and forth on that, though. Right?
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Every good story needs a villain.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Dodgers were in town. I made sure I
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: wouldn't watch the Dodgers play. Even though I wasn't working,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go watch. Right? Like, it's... The Yankees
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: were the villain before that. The Blue Jays had the
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: highest payroll in baseball in the early 90s. They won
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: a couple World Series. Like, every... you know, and it
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: attracts you to have that star power. There is an
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: attractive quality to that, right? If I'm going to go
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: to one game a year and I can see the
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Dodgers with nine all-stars or I can see the Yankees
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: with six all-stars or whatever, that's probably the game I'm
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: going to pick to go to, right? Or is it
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: better for the league to have all of those players
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: spread across six or seven more teams? And I think,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I see your point of it, like, you know, Tucker
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: being a free agent and where else was he going
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: to go, right? You know, all of those things you
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: kind of look at and you go, which.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Version of this is better, right? The Dodgers already have
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Scooble locked up. They got Tucker in this pass. I mean,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: it's kind of, I know. See, even you're saying that.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: You're hoping that's not the case because you want to
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: see that spread out a little bit.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: But the other thing that I think, Dad, you can
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: probably talk to this a little better than I can,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: but we also know how prohibitive it is for a
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: franchise to have a quarter of their payroll locked up
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: in one player. So every team can sign these guys.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: You could give Scooble $ 43 million.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: But if it's taken up a quarter of your payroll,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: then it's hard to build the rest of your roster
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: around it. So it's not like they can't. It's just
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: that now that we have an understanding of how roster
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: construction works, I think that would be probably part of
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: the issue. We have a better understanding of what it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: means to have one star player on your team and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: how difficult it is to build a team around that.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Well, Justin, the numbers show that approximately if you spend
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: more than about 48% of your payroll on your top
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: five highest paid players, you don't win. We just haven't
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: seen that format where you have that level of top
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: heavy roster. I hate to say this, but like the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Anaheim Angels are a recent example of that. Transcended talents
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: of Mike Trout and Otani at the same time, but
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: they didn't build around those guys. And if you don't
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: build up your roster around your team, you don't see
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: those types of teams prevail typically, which is unfortunate. But
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: I I agree with you. I think the villain is
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: good in sports. I just think you could accomplish that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: by having those teams spending maybe 50% more than the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: next highest team, not maybe 300% more. Famously, they're showing
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: that if you add up close to the payrolls of
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: the Guardians, the Rays, and the Brewers, it comes close
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: to the Dodgers. The Dodgers tax payment they have to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: make this year is higher than 17 payroll or would
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: be the 17th highest payroll on its own. You know,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: I think we just have gone a little bit too
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: far astray. But I love your idea. Let's just focus
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: on the fans. Let's do right by them. And then
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: I think the rest of this will sort itself out.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: But to Chet's point, if we raise the floor enough,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: it will force owners to reinvest in the product on
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the field, which should in turn attract more fans to
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: come out to the game. Justin, we'd be remiss in
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: not asking this before you left. You cover the Minnesota Twins.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: You play for the Minnesota Twins. You know that farm system.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: You know the team extremely well. Tom Pollett, who is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the owner of the Twins, recently publicly stated that they're
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: prepared to spend aggressively to win. If you were the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: GM of the Twins, what would you do with this
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: newfound money and how would you aggressively position that franchise
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: to be competitive and playoff relevant in the American League
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Central next year?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: I think the young position player group obviously is a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: ton of talent there. That's one thing I like about
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: the Central. You've got McGonigal in Detroit. You've got a
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: lot of good young players throughout the division. I love
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: our position player group. So it's hard to say, let's
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: go out and get this guy or that guy because
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: then you're going to stop the development of these young players.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a young core there. I think
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: the bullpen was something that probably cost them actually the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: chance to get in the playoffs this year. Part of
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: the reason they have the talent they've accumulated is because
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: of all the trades of the bullpen guys, of trading
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Varlin and Jackson and the guys that happened at the
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: deadline in 25. But I think you address the bullpen,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: which is one of the hardest things to do, as
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: you know, Thad, to bring in bullpen arms with how
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: volatile bullpens can be. And investing in the bullpen can
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: be very dangerous to give out long-term contracts to relievers.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: But I think there's an opportunity there. I think the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: starting pitcher pitching with It could be, I think, one
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: of the top five rotations across the game with the
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: amount of elite arms that they're going to have available.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: I think, to me, it's adding to the bullpen, maybe
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: adding a power bat somewhere behind the plate. It's going
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: to be interesting to see what they do. They're going
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: to tender Jeffers an offer. But I think they're a
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: team that I'm– if you asked me this question a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: year ago, my optimism wouldn't be close to where it's
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: at now. But to see the development of these young
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: players and now to hear they're going to spend some
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: money whether they make a run at Scooble and whether
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: that's a realistic option to add two to the twins.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if there's some offers out there.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, it happened with you Darvish a few years
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: back and trying to bring him into play for the twins.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, they've, but to be able to add to
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: this bullpen, I think would be huge to have three
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: or four to shorten that game, give manager Derek Shelton
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: a chance to say, if we were leading through seven,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: we're going to win every game that we're ahead, I
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: think would be huge. So I think if you're able
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: to find a couple of bullpen arms at a power
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: batter to, and then see what you're going to do
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: behind the plate, I think it would be huge. And
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: especially in that division, there's an opportunity there to really
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: go after it.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Do you have a few players that Twins fans should
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: be excited about right now that are coming up to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: the system?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, most of the guys are, not most of
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: the guys, but Walker Jenkins has a chance to be
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: a superstar. Just the way he carries himself, the way
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: his mentality, the way he's trying to get better every day.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I could build a team with 13 Luke Keyshalls on it,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: And I love watching that game every single day. He
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: runs every ball out. He's going to try and get
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: better every single day. There's never an excuse. He's the
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: kind of guy that could have played in any era.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: I think he's phenomenal. I think Caleb Culpepper's got a
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: ton of talent. He's got a chance to be an
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: all-star at the shortstop position. Brooks Lee, I believe he
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: was second in all of baseball for home runs by
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: switch hitters. He changed positions mid-season. He's got a chance,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: a healthy Byron Buxton after the hip surgery. I mean,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: you got Emmanuel Rodriguez. I mean, you could put out
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: one of the best defenses in all of baseball in
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: the outfield by having the speed out there of Buxton
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: and Emma and Jenkins. I mean, you got three guys
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: that are plus-plus runners, and whether that's rotating Keyshaw through. So, like,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the position player group, to me, is in such a
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: good spot. And they're growing together, and they have this mentality, like,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: we're going to do this thing together. We're going to
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: grow together to get along, I think. Cody Clemens has
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: been such an incredible pickup, just bringing him in and
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: what he's done since he's been given playing time as
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: a twin. I think there's just so much there that
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: if I'm a Twins fan, I really haven't been as
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: optimistic about a whole position player group as I've been
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: in a long time.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: It's exciting for Twins fans. They probably also have a
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: competitive advantage at manager right now. Rocco Baldelli did an
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: excellent job grooming a lot of those players you just described.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Derek Shelton is now the manager at the helm, doing
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: a wonderful job. They have Pablo Lopez coming back. Joe
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Ryan to anchor the top of the rotation if they
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: decide to retain those two guys. The American League Central
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: has been wide open for the last five years. There's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: no reason it won't be again. I think the last
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: five years, the team that was Preseason pick to win
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: has not won it. So it's usually been a highly
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: competitive division. Justin, we want to thank you so much
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: for sharing your experience, your passion, your wisdom with us today.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: It was awesome. And please join us this Thursday and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: every Thursday on Rosters to Rings. Please join me, host
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Thad Levine, and other general managers every week for Rosters
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: to Rings on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.