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Women Climbing Mountains · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you protection of iHeart radio and today
0:19
Speaker 1: we're taking a bit of a break. It wasn't intentional
0:22
Speaker 1: from the dark news of the day, uh, to talk
0:25
Speaker 1: about mountaineering and not to say that we aren't going
0:30
Speaker 1: to talk about some dark things. UM, so I guess
0:33
Speaker 1: this is your content morning. I think it's nothing major,
0:36
Speaker 1: but we are going to be talking about death in mountaineering. Um.
0:39
Speaker 1: And so this kind of came about because I recently
0:42
Speaker 1: went down a mountaineering rabbit hole because of a free
0:48
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus trial. I could go into the details, I won't,
0:52
Speaker 1: but basically I ended up watching talcumentaries about mountaineering. I
0:57
Speaker 1: have so many mountaineering facts. I'm very surprised I did
1:01
Speaker 1: not bombard you with them the last time we hung out,
1:03
Speaker 1: because I've the last few times I've been out with
1:05
Speaker 1: people and I've had a couple of drinks, I'm like,
1:07
Speaker 1: do you know about the death Zone? It's it's ridiculous.
1:11
Speaker 1: Um BT Doves Paramount Bluss is not a sponsor from
1:15
Speaker 1: They're not currently not currently but hey, Paramount, I need
1:20
Speaker 1: a subscription, so if you want to well, that's the thing.
1:24
Speaker 1: I'm such a cheap skate. When I get the free trial,
1:26
Speaker 1: I watched things I would never watch otherwise, and this
1:30
Speaker 1: is how this happened. I wouldn't have watched these documenties otherwise.
1:33
Speaker 1: I did enjoy them, clearly. I mean, yeah, you're like,
1:37
Speaker 1: guess what we're gonna do an episode of mountain And
1:39
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, here we gots like have you
1:41
Speaker 1: heard about the death? And you're like what you did
1:44
Speaker 1: not ask me that? Yes, but you were surprised when
1:47
Speaker 1: I told you that I've been on this mountaineering rabbit.
1:51
Speaker 1: I'm not as surprised because your mind is unique and
1:55
Speaker 1: likes to go down mountains. Sure like to go down mountains.
2:00
Speaker 1: My mind is unique, thank you. And I actually have
2:04
Speaker 1: been mountaineering, um, not in anything like this that we're
2:09
Speaker 1: specifically going to talk about, but I have climbed. I
2:13
Speaker 1: have had to deal with climbization and altitude poisoning. Actually,
2:19
Speaker 1: so of course it's horrible, don't recommend it. But I
2:24
Speaker 1: watched these documentaries and I couldn't stop thinking about the
2:27
Speaker 1: mindset of climbing a mountain when the death rate is
2:29
Speaker 1: one four, which is what it is for K two
2:31
Speaker 1: I think, oh, look my mountaineering facts, they're coming to
2:34
Speaker 1: use we go. However, I do want to point out
2:38
Speaker 1: because a lot of mountaineers I really don't want to
2:40
Speaker 1: do you injice, if you're listening, say that like statistics
2:44
Speaker 1: numbers wise, and we can argue about like the mindset specifically,
2:48
Speaker 1: but you're actually more likely to die in to corre accident.
2:50
Speaker 1: But anyway, I think that's more of a numbers game
2:52
Speaker 1: than anyway I'm getting. I'm I'm already going off trail um.
2:58
Speaker 1: When asked about like, why would you I'm Mount Everest,
3:01
Speaker 1: famous British britishman George Lee Mallory, who is one of
3:06
Speaker 1: the first to summit, if not the first to summit
3:08
Speaker 1: Mount Everest, said because it's there and so here we are,
3:13
Speaker 1: here we are. Really that's a lot of people like
3:15
Speaker 1: really have this level of seeing it and like, yes,
3:20
Speaker 1: I want because it's not it's dangerous, and it's it's
3:23
Speaker 1: so like incredibly hard to train. People don't understand all
3:26
Speaker 1: of that, and it seems doable. So that's what I'm
3:30
Speaker 1: going to climb my Mount Everest, or I'm going to
3:32
Speaker 1: climb Machu Picchu, like all of these amazing destinations without
3:37
Speaker 1: understanding the true like behind the scenes of it. Just
3:40
Speaker 1: doing the a T trail, the Appalachian Trail is pretty difficult,
3:43
Speaker 1: but it's not the level as you know again Mount Everest,
3:47
Speaker 1: Machupo like that. There's a whole different level mindset. But
3:50
Speaker 1: it seems attainable because if you can walk. For those
3:53
Speaker 1: who are able body enough to walk or even access
3:55
Speaker 1: a trail, it seems like this could be something. Yeah,
4:01
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about it? I think I had
4:03
Speaker 1: actually said I was going to climb something. I forgot
4:05
Speaker 1: which one it is. I'm not sure it wasn't Everest
4:07
Speaker 1: because I was like, I know better than that, but
4:11
Speaker 1: because I also love hiking and a long going hot
4:14
Speaker 1: Like again, this is one of the things, like I
4:15
Speaker 1: could walk, sure, so let me try to do this.
4:18
Speaker 1: I love hiking, I love seeing great views, and I
4:21
Speaker 1: don't mind backpacking, so let's try this because I can
4:25
Speaker 1: definitely can't rock climb. You know, well, I thought about skydiving,
4:28
Speaker 1: but that seems even more perilous in my head, like
4:31
Speaker 1: all of that. So I'm sure I have. And you know,
4:34
Speaker 1: it's kind of the old like mid life crisis. I'm
4:37
Speaker 1: going to climb on top of the mountain. Yeah. Yeah,
4:42
Speaker 1: I think I've thought about it, but never seriously, um
4:45
Speaker 1: or at least Everest, because I did do whatever. I
4:48
Speaker 1: can't even remember that mountain's name, but I had pictures
4:51
Speaker 1: and it looks great. Um, but I don't think I
4:57
Speaker 1: ever seriously considered it. And that's a prizes a lot
5:00
Speaker 1: of people, and I tell them because I guess I'm
5:02
Speaker 1: kind of like I'm making like a finger gun motion.
5:10
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, it's finger guns. Excuse you.
5:14
Speaker 1: Um No, She's so important and we're going to talk
5:18
Speaker 1: about We're going to talk about a lot of accessibility issues,
5:20
Speaker 1: and of course we're gonna keep this intersectional as we
5:24
Speaker 1: want to do. Uh. And because of that, like I know,
5:28
Speaker 1: people get really riled up about this. So I'm going
5:30
Speaker 1: to start with a lot of disclaimers. Okay, UM, So
5:33
Speaker 1: we are not going to really touch on the environmental
5:36
Speaker 1: impacts and the harm that the commercialization of mountaineering has done,
5:41
Speaker 1: but we do want to acknowledge that that is a
5:43
Speaker 1: big part of the conversation and it should be. And
5:45
Speaker 1: also never ever ever want to undervalue the work of
5:49
Speaker 1: the sherpas and high altitude porters. Who honestly make it
5:53
Speaker 1: possible for most folks in this commercialization space and have
5:57
Speaker 1: resterio lives and sometimes died a specially when it comes
6:00
Speaker 1: to yes this capitalizing climbing of mountains and government policies
6:05
Speaker 1: that place profits over safety, but also the systems of
6:08
Speaker 1: poverty that might make that an option considered in the
6:11
Speaker 1: first place. This is not that podcast that does exist,
6:14
Speaker 1: because I have listened to it, I have watched it,
6:17
Speaker 1: and I think that is incredibly important part of all
6:20
Speaker 1: this UM and that's why we had to mention it
6:22
Speaker 1: at the top, even though that's not really what we're
6:24
Speaker 1: talking about today. UM also want to mention plenty of
6:27
Speaker 1: indigenous peoples and regions with these mountains regularly transverse high altitudes.
6:32
Speaker 1: Maybe not summiting, but worth mentioning, because a lot of
6:35
Speaker 1: the people were talking about are kind of like getting
6:38
Speaker 1: to the top, taking the picture going down when other
6:41
Speaker 1: people might be doing it all the time, or like
6:43
Speaker 1: something close. I mean, one of the things that I've
6:45
Speaker 1: been seeing on social media, slash tektok is definitely a
6:50
Speaker 1: lot of Native Hawaiian's being like, please stop doing this.
6:53
Speaker 1: You don't know what you're doing, and you're causing dangers
6:56
Speaker 1: and then becoming a whole risk and then having a
6:59
Speaker 1: people look like enemies for telling you not to do this,
7:02
Speaker 1: and then also the enemies when we're like, we're not
7:03
Speaker 1: going to risk our lives because you did something that
7:06
Speaker 1: we told you not to do. Yes, yes, I mean
7:09
Speaker 1: with everything we talked about, I would just encourage everyone
7:15
Speaker 1: to do your research and to be respectful and yeah,
7:19
Speaker 1: there's a safety question in this, and you should take
7:23
Speaker 1: that very seriously because other people's lives and well beings
7:27
Speaker 1: are on the line other than yours. Another thing worth
7:30
Speaker 1: mentioning mountaineering is oftentimes but not always, uh extremely inaccessible
7:37
Speaker 1: in terms of price of equipment and of travel. So
7:40
Speaker 1: that's something. And also a lot of the stories about
7:43
Speaker 1: mountaineering and especially around tragedy in these situations are a
7:45
Speaker 1: bit muddled for a number of reasons, and we are
7:47
Speaker 1: going to talk about one specific case, um but so
7:52
Speaker 1: just keep that in mind and final disclaimer, we are
7:55
Speaker 1: not experts, and please do not yell at as I
7:57
Speaker 1: know commercial climbing really gets people angry, and I get it.
8:01
Speaker 1: We're doing more of a history of women who have
8:05
Speaker 1: climbed mountains and also occurrent I'll look at what's going
8:08
Speaker 1: on right now. And also we are sticking to basic
8:11
Speaker 1: mountaineering facts when it comes to the women we're talking about,
8:14
Speaker 1: So it could be they have something less than savory
8:16
Speaker 1: in their past. It could be they're worth talking about more.
8:18
Speaker 1: And if you know more about that, please let us know,
8:21
Speaker 1: because clearly I'm eager for mountaineering facts. I'm like just
8:25
Speaker 1: ready to receive them. He's ready for trivia. Let's go.
8:29
Speaker 1: I am, I am, I am, I am all right.
8:45
Speaker 1: So let's start with the definition. What is mountaineering exactly? Well, actually, uh,
8:50
Speaker 1: it is not as simple as you think and is
8:53
Speaker 1: up for debate. Most seem to agree that it typically
8:55
Speaker 1: involves traversing snow and possibly ice and glaciers to reach
8:59
Speaker 1: a summit, which is called summiting. Others define it as
9:01
Speaker 1: scaling a mountains. Sometimes rock climbing does get roped into it.
9:06
Speaker 1: I think we're more specifically talking about summiting, ice, snow,
9:11
Speaker 1: glaciers involved, though so would Tom cruiseby a mountaineer the
9:17
Speaker 1: question of the podcast. I wouldn't love if I became
9:20
Speaker 1: like you know, on trivia teams you have like your
9:23
Speaker 1: sports person, you're like music person. I would love I
9:30
Speaker 1: bet he is. Yes, I well, I just wondered because
9:32
Speaker 1: I just remember that picture of him like hanging from
9:35
Speaker 1: the edge, and I know that that's free climbing essentially,
9:38
Speaker 1: but I'm guessing it's probably roped up into this. Again.
9:42
Speaker 1: People need to be trained. I cannot have design this enough.
9:45
Speaker 1: People really do things on a silly idea and not
9:49
Speaker 1: restarting it heavily. Please don't do this. Uh So. Of course,
9:52
Speaker 1: numbers are sort of hard to track, but according to
9:55
Speaker 1: some data from the Outdoor Industry Association, they're about two
9:59
Speaker 1: million timbers in the US. Um and as far as women,
10:03
Speaker 1: we couldn't find a general number, but data from specific
10:06
Speaker 1: mountains indicates it ranges from ten but has been on
10:11
Speaker 1: the rise. Yes. Uh. And since the first known summit
10:16
Speaker 1: of Everest in nineteen fifty three, only about eight percent
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Speaker 1: of those who have summited Everest have been women. Many
10:21
Speaker 1: women have reported misogyny and getting questioned at every turn.
10:25
Speaker 1: And I will say, researching this, I found a lot
10:27
Speaker 1: of troubling. I have an anxiety around articles that go
10:33
Speaker 1: to a strictly biological sense why things are the way
10:39
Speaker 1: they are. That makes me really, that makes me really nervous. Um.
10:42
Speaker 1: There are a lot about this. A lot of them
10:45
Speaker 1: say women and men evolved equally to be able to
10:49
Speaker 1: summit mountains. Um. And there were scientific articles about that,
10:53
Speaker 1: but I just felt really uncomfortable talking about it, to
10:56
Speaker 1: be honest. But they do it right, Okay, So let's
11:00
Speaker 1: get into some history. And this one is kind of
11:03
Speaker 1: a mess. I'm going to be straight forward. That's kind
11:06
Speaker 1: of a mess. But I think we've we've got it
11:08
Speaker 1: wrangled up where it's it's going to be interesting. It's
11:11
Speaker 1: got quite a few intersecting threads. Um. So let's start
11:16
Speaker 1: with alpine mountaineering, which really took off during the nineteenth century,
11:21
Speaker 1: and the first men to complete these climbs captured the attention,
11:25
Speaker 1: awe and ire of the public of these alpine mountaineering.
11:29
Speaker 1: Perhaps I don't need to say it, but you know,
11:30
Speaker 1: climbing mountains in the Alps. Uh. Women they also climbed
11:34
Speaker 1: these peaks, though un lesser numbers, but with perhaps even
11:37
Speaker 1: more ire mm hmmmm. So for a long time throughout history,
11:43
Speaker 1: mountaineering has been traditionally and firmly in the domain of men.
11:47
Speaker 1: In fact, a f mumory of Victorian mountaineer claimed that
11:50
Speaker 1: mountains have three phases. They go through the inaccessible peak,
11:54
Speaker 1: the most difficult ascent in the Alps, and a quote
11:57
Speaker 1: an easy day for a lady sing that ones a
12:00
Speaker 1: woman climbs it, anybody can do it in the mountain
12:03
Speaker 1: looses it's allure and it's no longer worthwhile. Yeah yeah,
12:09
Speaker 1: But Mummery himself knew that women could climb. He commented
12:13
Speaker 1: on Lily Bristow's climb of grip Pon. Lucy Walker climbed
12:18
Speaker 1: at the matter Horn in eighteen seventy one, only six
12:20
Speaker 1: years after a man made the first ascent. Mumory talked
12:23
Speaker 1: about that too, and his own wife, Mary, was a
12:26
Speaker 1: skilled climber. Together they climbed two feld scruts during a
12:30
Speaker 1: thunder storm and something of a mountaining as I think
12:34
Speaker 1: I'd made that up, but now we're saying it mountaining legend.
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Speaker 1: But in his mind, her participation lessened that accomplishment and
12:42
Speaker 1: the mountain itself. If a woman can do it, he thought,
12:45
Speaker 1: can't anybody um so therefore useless and as we've discussed
12:50
Speaker 1: in multiple episodes, including our look at Women in the Olympics,
12:54
Speaker 1: Jim Timidation and a history of women exercising The early
12:58
Speaker 1: twentieth century is when younger, middle class, typically white women
13:01
Speaker 1: started playing certain sports, usually ones where it was believed
13:05
Speaker 1: it was possible to remain ladylike while playing them a
13:07
Speaker 1: k A. You won't sweat and you can wear like
13:09
Speaker 1: a skirt um. As this was happening, male explorers were
13:13
Speaker 1: going to Antarctica and planning to summit Everest. Women and
13:16
Speaker 1: young girls not and frequently wrote to these explorers asking
13:20
Speaker 1: to join them on their endeavors. Women in this realm
13:23
Speaker 1: were often well off and or unmarried, and or ill
13:29
Speaker 1: that whole mountain air saying might go get some mountain
13:32
Speaker 1: air um. They were often in their thirties and forties
13:35
Speaker 1: when they got their start, and many were husband and
13:38
Speaker 1: white teams, but a lot were sister teams are our
13:41
Speaker 1: friend teams. Women who did dare to climb mountains with
13:46
Speaker 1: the men often caused somewhat of an uproar. For instance,
13:49
Speaker 1: when Bristow shared a tent with male climbers, people who
13:52
Speaker 1: knew her raised their eyebrows. On the other hand, when
13:56
Speaker 1: Gertrude Bell helped rescue some of her fellow male climbers,
13:59
Speaker 1: she was raised by the guide and others in the group.
14:02
Speaker 1: Women's clothing was still policed. Some women climbed in skirts,
14:07
Speaker 1: while others made news by climbing in hants. Wearing a
14:12
Speaker 1: skirt to climb was pretty much always unsafe, so like
14:16
Speaker 1: while trying to summit the matter Horn with her father
14:19
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty seven, Felicitate Carrel's skirts kept catching dangerously
14:24
Speaker 1: in the wind until eventually she could go no further.
14:27
Speaker 1: The matter Horns Cole Felicite is named for her. Many
14:32
Speaker 1: women would wear a dress from the hotel and then
14:36
Speaker 1: take it off at the bottom of the mountain to
14:38
Speaker 1: make climbing easier and safer, or some variation of that,
14:42
Speaker 1: like maybe they would take it off once they got
14:44
Speaker 1: started climbing. Whatever. A climber named Mrs Audrey Leblonde or
14:48
Speaker 1: Lizzie Leblonde. What's had to return to a summit when
14:52
Speaker 1: on the descent they realized she realized she'd left her
14:56
Speaker 1: skirt there, so they'd go back up. Oh man, those
15:00
Speaker 1: damn scarves, the chafing alone alone? Yeah no, thank you.
15:07
Speaker 1: Um So, when the Alpine Club was founded in eighteen
15:10
Speaker 1: fifty seven, they did not allow women as members. Surprise.
15:13
Speaker 1: In response, women created the Ladies Alpine Club in nineteen
15:18
Speaker 1: oh seven, Leblon served as the first president. Congratulations. And
15:22
Speaker 1: some did view mountaineering as somewhat of a feminist thing,
15:26
Speaker 1: which is interesting. Some some viewed it as a feminist
15:28
Speaker 1: thing like women can climb outainste but others viewed it
15:30
Speaker 1: as like, look at those men climbing their mountains, silly.
15:35
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Um, So we did want to talk about
15:38
Speaker 1: some famous women mountaineers and some famous incidents involving women mountaineers. Again,
15:44
Speaker 1: this is really abbreviated and short, so if you are interested,
15:48
Speaker 1: I'm like their fellow interested mountaineering people out there, Uh,
15:53
Speaker 1: please let us know and we can do a whole
15:55
Speaker 1: episode on it. And we have mentioned some already, but
15:58
Speaker 1: we wanted to go over a few more. One is
16:00
Speaker 1: Fannie Bullock Workman, who was the first woman to ascend
16:03
Speaker 1: many peaks in the Himalayas man or woman. In nineteen twelve,
16:07
Speaker 1: Bullock Workman was photographed in the Himalayas holding a sign
16:10
Speaker 1: that read votes for women. And she had a nemesis
16:13
Speaker 1: who I didn't include, who is also feminist, but they
16:16
Speaker 1: were nemessies, so that's interesting. And then there's Miriam O'Brien
16:20
Speaker 1: After O'Brien was told she needed a man to show
16:23
Speaker 1: her where summit was, she was infuriated and wrote, the
16:27
Speaker 1: one who goes up first on the rope has even
16:30
Speaker 1: more fun as he solves the immediate problems of technique, tactics,
16:33
Speaker 1: and strategy as they occur. I saw no reason why women,
16:36
Speaker 1: ipso facto, should be incapable of leading a good climb.
16:40
Speaker 1: They had, as a matter of fact, already done so
16:42
Speaker 1: on some few scattered occasions. But why not make it
16:45
Speaker 1: a regular thing on the usual climes of the day.
16:48
Speaker 1: I decided to try some climbs not only guideless, but manless.
16:54
Speaker 1: By the nineteen twenties, she followed up on this promise.
16:57
Speaker 1: She and other women without the aid of men, pleaded
17:00
Speaker 1: many summits and many first She even had an essay
17:03
Speaker 1: published in addition of National Geographic titled Manless Alpine Climbing,
17:07
Speaker 1: which is actually where that quote is from. Do like
17:11
Speaker 1: a theatrical reading of this? You're speaking my language, Smith,
17:16
Speaker 1: I'm just saying manless alpine climbing should be a reading
17:19
Speaker 1: for us, like that's a great user, so good, so good.
17:28
Speaker 1: Um yeah. So then there's also Alma Wagin Wagan wagin
17:33
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna say wagon, okay, And if someone
17:35
Speaker 1: knows they're going to correct me, I know they will,
17:37
Speaker 1: and I really want you to. Also. Fun fact, my
17:40
Speaker 1: great grandmother's name was Alma anyway, so she often gets
17:44
Speaker 1: the credit as the first woman mountain guide in North America.
17:47
Speaker 1: In thee she said, quote, there were places to climb,
17:50
Speaker 1: and I wanted to teach other women the joy of climbing. Yes, yes, um.
17:56
Speaker 1: And then we have Arlene bloom bloom Let, the first
17:59
Speaker 1: all women is on Annapurna. That was also the first
18:02
Speaker 1: successful American attempt in nineteen seventy eight. Oh, that's pretty recent.
18:06
Speaker 1: She was the first woman out of the US to
18:07
Speaker 1: try her hand at climbing Mount Everest. And she was
18:10
Speaker 1: a member of the first all women team to summit
18:13
Speaker 1: the Nali. Yes, and my mountaineering fact. Annapurna, I believe
18:21
Speaker 1: has been an is still the most dangerous mountain summit.
18:25
Speaker 1: It has the highest death rate, so it's pretty easy. Yeah.
18:30
Speaker 1: And speaking of this is kind of the darker part
18:33
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. Um, some death. I did
18:36
Speaker 1: want to include it because I hadn't heard about it,
18:39
Speaker 1: and that was sort of the point the article I
18:42
Speaker 1: was reading was making was like, this was a huge tragedy,
18:44
Speaker 1: but because of a couple of political things, but also
18:47
Speaker 1: because they were women, we don't hear about it. The
18:49
Speaker 1: whole team was women. Um So, just for a warning.
18:54
Speaker 1: In nine two, Elvira Chadava organized the first all women's
18:59
Speaker 1: climb of a seven thousand meter peak, and this was
19:02
Speaker 1: not by far her last time contributing to mountaineering history
19:05
Speaker 1: or her first time, um so. In June nineteen and
19:10
Speaker 1: seventy climbers from several different countries came together in a
19:13
Speaker 1: mountaineering camp in the Pamir Mountains in the USSR but
19:17
Speaker 1: is now the border of Tajikistan and Kurdistan, A many
19:19
Speaker 1: with a goal of climbing the over seven thousand meter
19:22
Speaker 1: peak Lenin. This was a part of a USSR hosted
19:25
Speaker 1: international events and many of the organizers were unsure about
19:29
Speaker 1: including women, but felt like having zero women wouldn't look
19:33
Speaker 1: good for them. Um It was meant to foster a
19:36
Speaker 1: healthier relationship between the US and the USSR and to
19:40
Speaker 1: promote mountaineering, especially to younger people. Most of the climbers
19:43
Speaker 1: were going to ascend or hope to ascend the country's
19:46
Speaker 1: second highest peak, uh Win, an earthquake, struck shaken and
19:51
Speaker 1: more ways than one. I did not mean to make
19:53
Speaker 1: that fun. After the earthquake, American climber Molly Higgins reported
19:57
Speaker 1: turning a corner and seeing a Russian woman shad of
20:00
Speaker 1: a bossing around four Russian men. She turned to Higgins
20:04
Speaker 1: and said, I am a virus chadevea. I am master
20:07
Speaker 1: of sport. What are you? And master of sport was
20:10
Speaker 1: a top credential in USSR sport and rarely obtained by
20:14
Speaker 1: women at the time. Higgins later said, I thought it
20:17
Speaker 1: was great. I didn't want to be bossy like that,
20:19
Speaker 1: but here was a woman who really was capable. I
20:22
Speaker 1: wanted to be like her, that strong and that experienced.
20:25
Speaker 1: She was a heroine right there. By many accounts, the
20:29
Speaker 1: women of this expedition generally stayed on the Soviet side
20:33
Speaker 1: of the camp, helped each other out. They practiced, they
20:36
Speaker 1: sang songs, they talked, they laughed, all while taking what
20:40
Speaker 1: they were doing very very seriously. They didn't really argue
20:44
Speaker 1: our fight with each other. Shadowa wrote, you men have
20:48
Speaker 1: never dreamed of such openness. Another American who we just mentioned,
20:53
Speaker 1: Arlene blum Um, remembers being welcomed by Chadovea after some
20:57
Speaker 1: politics that had her feeling left out of the America
21:00
Speaker 1: Can crew. Basically they were like, you're not experienced enough
21:02
Speaker 1: to be here. You go over there, And Chadovea informed
21:06
Speaker 1: Blum that the mail climbers didn't believe a woman's team
21:08
Speaker 1: could ever summit Pete Lennon, but that was Chadovey's goal.
21:12
Speaker 1: Her plan was to take a team of eight women
21:14
Speaker 1: to traverse the peak, the first to do so, no
21:17
Speaker 1: mata the gender and bio vac, which is basically extreme
21:21
Speaker 1: temporary camping on the top peak overnight. But of course
21:27
Speaker 1: the weather was out of air control, the worst storm
21:30
Speaker 1: in a quarter decade rage, causing dangerous avalanche conditions, many
21:33
Speaker 1: of which would go on to kill several climbers. The
21:36
Speaker 1: day before the storm hit, organizers warned that serious weather
21:39
Speaker 1: conditions were impending and they advised everyone to descend. The
21:43
Speaker 1: group of Russian women led by Shadowya were witnessed around
21:46
Speaker 1: four dred feet from the summits about one and they
21:51
Speaker 1: sent a message that they had in fact some of it,
21:53
Speaker 1: so they did the thing Um. The following day, they
21:58
Speaker 1: radioed again in forming organizers one of whom was Chatove's husband,
22:02
Speaker 1: of the issues that they were having. Wins of seventy
22:04
Speaker 1: eighty miles per hour temperatures is slow as negative body
22:08
Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit and a foot of snow made a visibility
22:11
Speaker 1: virtually impossible. Shadowya reported that one of the women was
22:16
Speaker 1: sick and the other unwell. She was advised to descend
22:19
Speaker 1: and if necessary, leave the sick women behind. As they
22:22
Speaker 1: started to descend, one of the women would tragically die,
22:25
Speaker 1: allegedly freezing to death as she held the rope for
22:28
Speaker 1: others to climb down. The survivors made it a few
22:31
Speaker 1: hundred feet before setting up tints. That night, or perhaps
22:35
Speaker 1: the next, the two sick women died. The winds blew
22:39
Speaker 1: away much of their equipment, and the five surviving women
22:41
Speaker 1: to shelter in a tent without poles and only three
22:44
Speaker 1: sleeping bags. The next morning, some climbers who overheard the
22:49
Speaker 1: trouble the Russians were in tried to help, but weren't
22:52
Speaker 1: able to get far because of the weather. Chatovea informed
22:56
Speaker 1: organizers that three more of the women were sick and
22:59
Speaker 1: they could not them. After everything they've been through together
23:02
Speaker 1: and what they've done for each other. A few hours later,
23:05
Speaker 1: she messaged, it is very sad here where it was
23:07
Speaker 1: once so beautiful. And within a few more hours one
23:10
Speaker 1: of the women had died, and Shadowy radioed they're all
23:13
Speaker 1: gone now. That last asked when will we see the
23:16
Speaker 1: flowers again? Two others earlier asked about their children. Now
23:19
Speaker 1: it is no use. A few hours later, we are sorry,
23:24
Speaker 1: we have failed you. We tried so hard. Now we
23:26
Speaker 1: are so cold. And a few hours later another of
23:29
Speaker 1: the women had died, and then another Shadowya told organizers
23:34
Speaker 1: she was too weak to hold down the transmit button anymore,
23:38
Speaker 1: and the final message came later from the remaining climber, Galinauk.
23:44
Speaker 1: Now we are too Now we will all die. We
23:47
Speaker 1: are very sorry. We tried but we could not. Please
23:50
Speaker 1: forgive us. We love you, goodbye. When the weather cleared,
23:56
Speaker 1: the American team started to ascend towards the peak. None
23:59
Speaker 1: the wiser Higgins successfully summited, as did another American woman,
24:03
Speaker 1: the respected mountaineer Marty Hoey, who would later die on
24:07
Speaker 1: everest in an attempt to become the first woman to
24:09
Speaker 1: summit in Nino. They, among other climbers that summited, found
24:14
Speaker 1: the bodies of the Russian women. In total, thirteen died,
24:17
Speaker 1: including the eight women on that team. Uh. There were
24:20
Speaker 1: many reasons for this tragedy. One Higgins has suggested is
24:24
Speaker 1: they were the test group. They felt they needed to
24:26
Speaker 1: do it to uphold the standard of the women's team.
24:29
Speaker 1: And Blom said the women were so very loyal to
24:31
Speaker 1: each other they stayed together until the end. So again,
24:37
Speaker 1: the article was making the point like, this is a
24:38
Speaker 1: pretty serious tragedy um in mountaineering history, and a lot
24:43
Speaker 1: of the tragedies that people can name and and in
24:47
Speaker 1: successes people can name are about men, and this one
24:50
Speaker 1: has sort of been buried and people don't know about it.
24:52
Speaker 1: But it was not all women's team, and they were
24:54
Speaker 1: the first to summit um. But they didn't. I didn't
24:59
Speaker 1: survive it. Oh goodness. Blum didn't go with them then, No,
25:04
Speaker 1: she was on Yeah, this was an all Russian team.
25:07
Speaker 1: Blum was on the American. She wanted to go with them,
25:11
Speaker 1: but because of the like politics of it, they wanted
25:16
Speaker 1: it to be an all ussr team. Yeah, that's really tragic.
25:19
Speaker 1: I feel like though there's definitely been movies on all
25:22
Speaker 1: male teams, or at least most of the male teams
25:24
Speaker 1: who have died, um, and you are horror stories and
25:27
Speaker 1: then they're kind of elevated to like hero status sometimes. Yeah,
25:33
Speaker 1: that's what I'm talking about. I've watched them so like
25:38
Speaker 1: at this point, you know, this is really sad they
25:40
Speaker 1: didn't make it, and then the loyalty they had to
25:43
Speaker 1: each other. It could have been a movie. I feel
25:44
Speaker 1: like this has been a nineties movie. I feel I mean,
25:47
Speaker 1: maybe it exists, let us know. I don't think, because
25:51
Speaker 1: the whole point in the article was like, how the
25:54
Speaker 1: hell we don't talk about this? Right? Of course that
25:58
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with like at that point,
26:00
Speaker 1: the USS are being uh, kind of the enemy of
26:03
Speaker 1: the state. I mean today we're not standing with Russia.
26:06
Speaker 1: So it's kind of that level, I'm sure, which we
26:09
Speaker 1: don't know how much politics plays into it. And I
26:11
Speaker 1: wonder how much, Yeah, the USS our history sticks with
26:14
Speaker 1: the within Russia, like the former Soviet all of that area.
26:18
Speaker 1: How much do they know do they actually know a
26:20
Speaker 1: lot of it? And we just we don't know a
26:22
Speaker 1: lot of it, which happens a lot when it comes
26:24
Speaker 1: to international stuff. But moving on to the less sad,
26:29
Speaker 1: less sad historical context, Um, we have Junko Tabe, who
26:34
Speaker 1: became the first member to summit Everest in nineteen seventy
26:37
Speaker 1: five as part of an all women team, which is awesome. UM.
26:41
Speaker 1: And then we have Alison Hargreaves, who was recognized as
26:45
Speaker 1: the first person to solo climb all six of the
26:48
Speaker 1: Great and Northern faces of the Alps and is credited
26:51
Speaker 1: with climbing every solo without oxygen or the support of
26:55
Speaker 1: a sharpa. UM. I feel like without the oxygen thing,
27:00
Speaker 1: that's a huge invad happen. I have like I could
27:03
Speaker 1: go if this is a different podcast, I'll be talking
27:06
Speaker 1: about that. I'd be talking about the dangers you're descending.
27:08
Speaker 1: I'll be talking about ice clay shoes, like I'm telling you.
27:13
Speaker 1: I just I feel like I get I get the
27:15
Speaker 1: like notoriety to it, but I'm like, is that necessary?
27:19
Speaker 1: Is that? Okay? Alright, alright, alright, I don't I'm not
27:22
Speaker 1: a mountaineer. There's a whole lot of things I don't know. Obviously,
27:26
Speaker 1: I am a mirror amateur hiker at best, probably just
27:29
Speaker 1: a walker. I don't know. So she died on K two,
27:33
Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous summers in the world. In
27:35
Speaker 1: n K two and Anna Perna are the two that
27:39
Speaker 1: are like tied for the most dangerous. They think. They
27:43
Speaker 1: go back and forth. This is the actual better news. Okay,
27:59
Speaker 1: this is actually better. In two thousand six, Sophia Dannenberg
28:03
Speaker 1: became the first black woman to summit Everest. She said
28:07
Speaker 1: that at the time of her climb quote, when I
28:10
Speaker 1: was at base camp, if there were twenty female climbers,
28:12
Speaker 1: there must have been two thousand men. In mountaineering, generally
28:15
Speaker 1: there aren't many women, but there are so few women
28:18
Speaker 1: on Everest. And it's not just the climbers. Almost all
28:21
Speaker 1: the serpos, guides, cooks, and staff are men. It's like
28:24
Speaker 1: being in a small town with almost no women, and
28:26
Speaker 1: if you're climbing, you're there for months. This macho climbing
28:29
Speaker 1: culture can be intimidating for women. Young women, including women
28:32
Speaker 1: of color, are braining their values into climbing and demanding
28:35
Speaker 1: that things are different. It grows exponentially once it started.
28:39
Speaker 1: Mountaineering is kind of lagging behind, but the industry is
28:41
Speaker 1: starting to respond. She's also been very outspoken about her
28:45
Speaker 1: experience climbing as a black woman. Quote, there are a
28:48
Speaker 1: lack of role models for people of color in the
28:50
Speaker 1: climbing community. I also think that climbing is an indicator
28:53
Speaker 1: of lagging social economic issues in her country. People who
28:56
Speaker 1: climb big mountains are all the same, well educated, work
28:59
Speaker 1: at an engineering company, from upper middle class families. Climbing
29:03
Speaker 1: is time consuming and costly. No matter what anyone says
29:06
Speaker 1: about the metaphysical part of climbing, it's a selfish, nonproductive activity.
29:10
Speaker 1: It's a hobby that takes up a lot of time.
29:12
Speaker 1: It's a selfish hobby. It's a hobby that I love.
29:15
Speaker 1: Some people don't have the privilege of not being productive.
29:18
Speaker 1: And then further, I've noticed that when I've met people
29:21
Speaker 1: on my expeditions, they treat me with a level of
29:23
Speaker 1: respect because I treat them with respect. People in countries
29:26
Speaker 1: in South America, Africa, and Asia are so happy to
29:28
Speaker 1: see another brown person checking and climbing. They don't make
29:32
Speaker 1: the normal assumptions of being a rich white man. People
29:34
Speaker 1: have offered me additional information and have showed me immense hospitality.
29:38
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be talking about her a bit more
29:39
Speaker 1: in a second. But she's got a lot of great quotes,
29:41
Speaker 1: and she's also got a lot of great quotes about
29:43
Speaker 1: always being questioned as being an expert. Like they're always like, oh,
29:46
Speaker 1: it can't be you butt her. You don't look like
29:50
Speaker 1: a climber. Excuse me, what does that look like? Yeah,
29:53
Speaker 1: and I've been following again with the social media's but
29:56
Speaker 1: a lot of hikers who have been doing being special episodes,
30:02
Speaker 1: I guess, or doing specific things to show showcase whether
30:06
Speaker 1: or not an area is safe for people of color,
30:09
Speaker 1: specifically black people. And I think that's as sad and necessary,
30:13
Speaker 1: both of those things. And we've talked about that in
30:16
Speaker 1: travel wise, but specifically for climbing, uh and for hiking
30:20
Speaker 1: and climbing in wilderness, a type of things, talking about
30:22
Speaker 1: whether or not you are safe because we are more isolated.
30:25
Speaker 1: We've talked about that as an issue for women in general,
30:29
Speaker 1: um and for non binary people, but for you know,
30:32
Speaker 1: black the black community, it's a whole different conversation once again,
30:35
Speaker 1: whether it's welcoming in general, um. And I find that
30:39
Speaker 1: interesting because this is that conversation of like, yeah, it's
30:43
Speaker 1: kind of for me as a person of color when
30:47
Speaker 1: I see all white people. Don't get me wrong, I
30:49
Speaker 1: still have the privilege of not of being considered the
30:52
Speaker 1: model minority. Do I get some looks sure, but I
30:55
Speaker 1: don't get as much discrimination as a black person would.
30:59
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe that, um, and I've seen it, but
31:04
Speaker 1: it's still like the relief to see another personal color.
31:06
Speaker 1: We're kind of like, hi, you made it, so maybe
31:09
Speaker 1: this is all, you know, like trying to give us
31:11
Speaker 1: each other heads up. And it's definitely that conversation of
31:14
Speaker 1: who is welcome and who was seen as an expert
31:17
Speaker 1: because well, you don't look like a B, C and D.
31:21
Speaker 1: So it's very interesting. I'm glad to hear they're making
31:26
Speaker 1: changes and bringing some good, good noted difference in the
31:30
Speaker 1: intersectional perspective. Oh yeah, absolutely great quotes. She's also been
31:34
Speaker 1: very outspoken of like we're gonna again, we're gonna get
31:36
Speaker 1: to this more in a second. But like when she
31:38
Speaker 1: did this, it was pretty historic. It really didn't make
31:40
Speaker 1: news and it should have, right, Um, of course. And
31:44
Speaker 1: then we have named Alma Sharpa, who at the age
31:47
Speaker 1: of seventeen, became the youngest woman to summit Mount Everest
31:50
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. She grew up in a remote
31:52
Speaker 1: mountain village and Nepal, dreaming of climbing herself, and she
31:56
Speaker 1: said quote the Sharpa are known as Mountain heroes and
32:00
Speaker 1: always wanted to live up to my name. And apparently
32:02
Speaker 1: she did a good job. My god, what was I doing?
32:10
Speaker 1: Didn't we have? Sarah Kumalo uh Kumala became the first
32:14
Speaker 1: Black African woman to summit Everest in twenty nineteen. Also
32:18
Speaker 1: a lot of great quotes, um And then we did
32:21
Speaker 1: want to wrap up with some more modern news. In
32:24
Speaker 1: recent years, organizations run by women have come together to
32:27
Speaker 1: lead all women summits of Everest. One such group operates
32:31
Speaker 1: with a local Nepalese organization launched by the Poli entrepreneur
32:35
Speaker 1: Indira Bata. It employs all Napoli women as guides and
32:39
Speaker 1: provides funding for other local women to train as guides.
32:42
Speaker 1: And this is a pretty big deal because over of
32:44
Speaker 1: the over twenty two thousand guides in the country, less
32:47
Speaker 1: than women. It's pretty it's a good earning. This is
32:51
Speaker 1: not a strict endorsement of this company or again of
32:54
Speaker 1: climbing Everest, because I know that in itself is controversial,
32:57
Speaker 1: but just want to mention it again. We always want
33:02
Speaker 1: to think about the environmental impact, but that's all we're
33:04
Speaker 1: talking about. This intrigues you make sure you research on again.
33:10
Speaker 1: If you're thinking this has been a lot of white folks.
33:14
Speaker 1: You are correct, though we don't want to erase what
33:17
Speaker 1: women of color have done. Still, of the about four
33:19
Speaker 1: thousand people who have some of it Everest, only eight
33:22
Speaker 1: of them have been black. Again, there are some efforts
33:25
Speaker 1: to change that. And yeah, there are already people doing
33:28
Speaker 1: amazing things. Of course, just reminder, so many conversations about this,
33:33
Speaker 1: but the opportunity, the affordability, accessibility, and probably just the
33:37
Speaker 1: overall racism can be factors or why this is UM
33:42
Speaker 1: and then one of these efforts, by the way, is
33:43
Speaker 1: a group of black climbers and mountaineers called a Full Circle.
33:47
Speaker 1: In the words of a member, Rosemary Saul, it is
33:50
Speaker 1: an expedition that is certainly about climbing, it is about
33:54
Speaker 1: spending time in the mountains, but it's also about building community,
33:58
Speaker 1: global community, and it's about changing the narrative of the
34:01
Speaker 1: black community, particularly in the United States, and how we
34:04
Speaker 1: interact with outdoor spaces. Um. Yeah, and two they became
34:08
Speaker 1: the first all black team to summit Everest. There's also
34:12
Speaker 1: Brown Girls Climbing, which is a U S organization and
34:14
Speaker 1: dedicated to introducing climbing to girls of color and you know,
34:17
Speaker 1: we've talked about the hiking experience welldernest experience with other
34:21
Speaker 1: organizations and why this is important, but they are able
34:24
Speaker 1: to build that community is beautiful to see, yes, and
34:27
Speaker 1: a good source to check out, complete with people to
34:29
Speaker 1: follow on social media. Uh Is melanin base camp dot
34:33
Speaker 1: com um and then in Siyah Sarhati Nelson, who was
34:38
Speaker 1: working on a book about women Afghan climbers, reported on
34:43
Speaker 1: an Afghan mountaineering women's team stranded in Afghanistan after the
34:46
Speaker 1: US left when the Taliban was in charge. Previously, women
34:50
Speaker 1: and girls were not allowed to participate in sports, but
34:52
Speaker 1: in the post Taliban era they have fought to compete
34:55
Speaker 1: and they have had successes. UM. When the Taliban regained control,
35:00
Speaker 1: some startup banning women from participating once again, and this
35:04
Speaker 1: team's trapped. It was upsetting and very informative article, but
35:10
Speaker 1: it was kind of using this team to look at
35:13
Speaker 1: what's going on in Afghanistan at large for women. Right. Yeah, obviously,
35:19
Speaker 1: again this is one of the big conversations of who
35:21
Speaker 1: has accessibility to doing these things and why the numbers
35:25
Speaker 1: for those marginalized people are so low, and how it's
35:30
Speaker 1: not their fault. Is literally society's fault. Yes, yes, um,
35:38
Speaker 1: and definitely like not to harp on this point, but
35:41
Speaker 1: to harp on this point, like as the climbing of
35:44
Speaker 1: Mountain has become more commercialized, more and more people are
35:47
Speaker 1: doing it, and I'm happy to see like it's becoming
35:50
Speaker 1: more diversified. But as we've said throughout, do your research
35:53
Speaker 1: because we've all I think a lot of us have
35:55
Speaker 1: seen the pictures now of like the line to see
35:58
Speaker 1: everest in the track that's everywhere. Like, if you're going
36:02
Speaker 1: to do it, you have to be respectful, to take
36:05
Speaker 1: care of the environment, think about what you're doing. Yeah, right,
36:09
Speaker 1: and also all that to understand that if native people
36:15
Speaker 1: of that land are asking you something, not even asking you,
36:17
Speaker 1: but pleading with you to not do something, let's listen.
36:21
Speaker 1: Let's listen. Yes, yes, yes, I mean there's so many
36:26
Speaker 1: there's so much we could talk about with this, but
36:28
Speaker 1: we're we gotta stay in our feminist It's hard because
36:33
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it, but they those podcasts
36:35
Speaker 1: you exist, and there is so much information out there
36:38
Speaker 1: about this and I am glad that I got to
36:42
Speaker 1: share some Mountain information. The tragic but you know, yes,
36:49
Speaker 1: it happens, it does. That's what the whole thing got
36:53
Speaker 1: started because I was just curious. It's just curious. Well,
36:57
Speaker 1: if we have anybody in our audience who's a outaineer
37:00
Speaker 1: who was climbed some mountains, we would love to hear
37:03
Speaker 1: from you. Uh pictures too, yes, oh my gosh, yes,
37:08
Speaker 1: send us pictures. You can email us at Steffidia mom
37:10
Speaker 1: Stuff at that hurt mea dot com. You can find
37:12
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram
37:14
Speaker 1: with stuff We Never told you things. As always to
37:16
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, Thank you Christina, and thanks to
37:19
Speaker 1: you for listening stuff on our toldys prediction by Heart Radio.
37:22
Speaker 1: For more, podcast in My Heart Radio is the heart
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