Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Maureen Kelly’s Spiritual Quest: Vanished in Gifford Pinchot

Transcript

Maureen Kelly’s Spiritual Quest: Vanished in Gifford Pinchot · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:00
  Our story today is all about the fun and occasional folly of youth. On June 9th, all of the accounts
• 0:10
  I've read say the group was simply enjoying themselves as the afternoon began to fade into evening.
• 0:16
  The group proceeded to enjoy their surroundings no doubt unaware that by morning they would reach
• 0:24
  a horrifying realization. One of them was missing.
• 0:31
  Okay, yes, Caitlyn. I have received the nudes that you sent me.
• 0:42
  Oh, boy, are you going to be disappointed?
• 0:51
  I mean, these are beautiful. Not quite that beautiful.
• 0:55
  Never that beautiful. No, oh my goodness. Okay, man. Yeah, I was waiting until you hit record
• 1:03
  to say that. So we can start now. Hi, Cassie. Hi, Caitlyn. Hi, creepy people. Hello.
• 1:09
  This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, spooky things,
• 1:21
  witchy things, kind of whatever we're feeling. We really, we really hone in on the paranormal and the
• 1:29
  true crime though. That's kind of our, that's our safe space, which I think says a lot about our
• 1:36
  mental health, right? And where is our safe space? It's in the Pacific Northwest, the PNW.
• 1:44
  It's in the history. Yes, yes. And I'm nasty because I'm drinking a curslight today. Curse light.
• 1:52
  That's like a very Midwest thing to say. Curse light. What else do we do? Oh, I forgot. We do
• 2:02
  terror reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Cassie,
• 2:08
  have you ever visited the Gifford Pinsho National Forest in Washington? No, and it doesn't even
• 2:17
  sound familiar to me. Wow. Okay. You may recall, I just sent you some photos. So I'm going to show you
• 2:25
  some pictures so you can see just how beautiful it is. Caitlyn, those are huge. Whoa, but they are.
• 2:36
  Yeah. Yeah, this is really pretty. Are these from your personal camera roll?
• 2:42
  These ones are not. Oh, okay. They look like they could be. They, yes. And I was very fortunate to
• 2:50
  stumble upon some Pacific Northwest kind of camping blogs that they had photos. Actually,
• 2:59
  the one with the waterfall. Yeah, that's right. I have a nearly identical photo in my camera roll.
• 3:07
  Right. A different place in Washington. Yeah, I feel like these waterfalls are, I mean, I don't
• 3:13
  know, maybe they're typical of waterfalls everywhere, but I feel like these are like super PNW
• 3:18
  waterfalls. I think so as well. Just like the multiple points of, I don't know what you call. I don't
• 3:24
  how to describe this, but like the multiple points of fallage in the fall itself because there's so
• 3:31
  many layers of rocks and things and green moss and then the water looks like greeny blue like a lagoon.
• 3:39
  It's very pretty. It's very pretty. And then is this like Mount St. Helens with the top
• 3:44
  blown off? Might be. Does that the one that blew up? It sure is. I think that's the only one that
• 3:53
  doesn't have like a point. I think. I don't know. I can be sure. And it actually, I believe that
• 3:58
  geographically checks out. So yeah, well, cool. Yeah. Yeah. As you'll find out later, I was prepared for
• 4:08
  questions, but only in relation to historical weather data. Oh, yes. I'm waiting for this. Yeah.
• 4:20
  I read a comment and I went, hmm, that seems to directly contradict something else I read about the
• 4:27
  weather. I should probably hyper focus on that for 30 minutes. I mean, I probably would too.
• 4:34
  Yeah, it turns out it wasn't unimportant to the story. So, hmm, okay. Do you have any idea how
• 4:43
  difficult it can be depending on location to find historical weather data, dating back to 2013?
• 4:53
  No, I feel like Google should just know, right? Yeah. Google doesn't fucking know.
• 4:59
  Google AI. Come on, answer. Can you answer all my other questions? Yeah. Google AI was like, well,
• 5:08
  here's what I would do. And I was like, I would have already done that. I thought you would give me
• 5:16
  the answer. I'm getting a little hung up on that. That's fine. We have a lot of ground to cover.
• 5:22
  So when I look at the falls, you see in a lot of the pictures of this area, especially now that we're
• 5:29
  getting closer to spring, I think about that hilariously heartwarming prank that you and Chris
• 5:36
  pulled on me almost two years ago now. Oh, yeah. Remember that? Okay. TLDR for anyone who doesn't know
• 5:46
  that backstory. I was told by Cassie and my now husband, Chris, that we were going to take some
• 5:52
  photos of the two of us for the pod. And also for one of Cassie's episodes. She's a lying skank.
• 6:01
  I was not wrong because we actually did an episode about the place. So we actually did need to go
• 6:08
  there. Yeah. What actually happened was that Chris proposed whilst I was clearly confused. And
• 6:16
  also scolding him for getting brand new pants dirty. I'm gonna stay. Yeah. In many respects, one of
• 6:27
  the happiest and also maybe in some respects, not my proudest moment. I also made some of the most
• 6:35
  bizarrely dazed faces, I think humanly possible. Yes, can confirm. If you want to listen to that
• 6:42
  episode where Cassie tried to convince me how creepy Silver Falls was, you can go back and listen
• 6:49
  to the episode. We'll tag that in the show notes. Hopefully, hopefully we do that.
• 6:55
  It did drop on April 1st of whatever that year was. Yes. Yeah. It was indeed our April Fools
• 7:03
  episode. Kind of a tough act to follow. I feel like. Yeah. We'll see what happens this year. Maybe
• 7:12
  we'll get back to you. I see on you. Maybe we'll keep you guessing. Who knows? Or maybe we'll
• 7:16
  just agree that April Fools is a stupid holiday and it's not for adults. I do have more pictures
• 7:28
  for you. So hopefully the first one in this progression of photos that I've sent you
• 7:34
  is mostly my wrist. Yes, I noticed that. Okay. Okay. So the first one looks like it was taken by a
• 7:45
  boomer. It's sort of the photo equivalent of a butt dial. But I can assure you that it was taken
• 7:52
  actually by me, not a boomer, famously, in the befuddled excitement moments after your hilarious
• 8:02
  prank. And then the other ones are slightly more presentable cute photos of us at the falls
• 8:11
  with our mouths open. Oh, of course. Chris is just being normal, smiling normal. Yeah. Just being a
• 8:18
  just being a person, just being a person, people, yeah. Aw, that was a fun day. It was whenever I see
• 8:28
  waterfalls, you know what I think and a TLC. Also that. Naturally. But let's get back on track.
• 8:39
  If you were say 19 years old, what do you think a place like Gifford Pinchow National Forest
• 8:48
  represents to you? I don't know. Like a nice place to hike. Yeah, I feel like that's a solid guess.
• 8:58
  That's what I was looking for. Obviously, you've got the gorgeous waterfalls and I already had my
• 9:03
  monologue about that. Yeah. Maybe a little freedom enjoying the natural world, camping with friends,
• 9:12
  toasting marshmallows and maybe some drinks by the fire. A legit drink. That all tracks though.
• 9:22
  Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I was thinking back to what I was doing at that age.
• 9:27
  Outdoorsing. Exactly. It was like hiking a little but mostly like camping and drinking and yeah.
• 9:33
  Yeah. Yeah. Pretty normal stuff I think about age. Our story today is all about the fun
• 9:41
  and occasional folly of youth. As happy as I am now with everything that I built with both of my
• 9:49
  partners in crime, both in business and in my personal life. Me? Every once in a while, I think
• 9:57
  everyone wishes that they could turn back the clock and experience things the same way they did when
• 10:05
  they were younger. I mean, for me, number one, my metabolism. And I could really go for taking
• 10:14
  another summer off. Yeah. Seriously. Would not hurt my feelings at all. Maureen “Anu" Kelly was born
• 10:25
  September 26, 1993 to a single mother who raised her in Washington state.
• 10:32
  Sources actually kind of seem to differ on where exactly she grew up. Some say the Vancouver area,
• 10:41
  others spoke Ann, but ultimately our story happens in a completely different location anyway.
• 10:50
  Though she was a graduate of Lewis and Clark High School, notably located in Spokane.
• 10:56
  Not Spokane. Never Spokane. Fun fact, Anu was a Libra. And I share that because from what I have seen
• 11:09
  and read, it seems like kind of a fun detail that she might have actually shared about herself.
• 11:17
  Oh, she had sort of like a fun kind of creative. I don't know. I mean, I feel like hippie sort of
• 11:26
  becomes like a catch all term for sort of a vibe. Yeah. But I feel like Libra's also have like an
• 11:34
  energy and we all have like Libra energy too because I'm a Libra moon and you're like a Libra rising
• 11:41
  or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris is Libra. So it's a Libra. Yeah.
• 11:47
  I know. We got a lot of Libra energy up in here. Yeah. Makes sense, I think. It does. But
• 11:55
  back in 2013, Anu had a YouTube channel where she posted videos playing her yoke. Oh,
• 12:07
  Yugalaylee for the uninitiated and beatboxing. That's so cool.
• 12:14
  Generally just being a carefree young adult. She had 302 subscribers there.
• 12:24
  I'm going to speculate that some of those subscribers are more recent. Oh, I'd also, I'd love to use
• 12:34
  this as an opening to transition into an arguably shameless plug. Believe me. But as I listen to her
• 12:42
  saying as she played her yoke, I read the comments. I'm not going to read from the comments section
• 12:49
  until I provide a little bit more context. But suffice to say, I was starting to come down
• 12:55
  with a case of the Ick. Oh, no. I don't like that. I know. Well, go on the internet and it, you know,
• 13:03
  as one does, but why try to stay off the internet? Yeah. Okay. So do me a favor. If you can only do one
• 13:10
  thing, just one time, don't worry about any of the usual calls to action that on this podcast
• 13:17
  and other fellow podcasters, you know, the things that we're always saying, smash that subscribe
• 13:24
  button and shit like that. Instead, go to her YouTube channel because this is a face that
• 13:32
  not enough people have seen. This is clearly an incredibly kind and creative young woman with
• 13:39
  a beautiful voice to boot. She was just like anyone would be at 19 beautiful, intrepid,
• 13:46
  a young woman with so much promise. According to her half sister, Sherry Koubu, she had called just
• 13:55
  prior to an upcoming camping trip. She called me before she left, saying she was going camping
• 14:02
  with friends and asked if she could borrow some of my camping gear. She was excited about going
• 14:09
  and told me she loved me. That was totally normal for her. She was a very affectionate person.
• 14:15
  When Anu arrived the following day to pick up her gear that she intended to borrow,
• 14:24
  Sherry asked where she and her group of friends were headed. And though Maureen was a self-profess
• 14:33
  nature lover, she was not an experienced camper. So their destination, the Gifford Pinchot
• 14:43
  National Forest, was a bit surprising to Sherry. She described Anu as a very laid back care-free girl.
• 14:53
  And though she had reportedly longed to spend more time in the outdoors, her expectations were
• 14:59
  unlikely to match the harsh realities of the wilderness. Sherry said, I asked her why now?
• 15:07
  And Maureen told me that she wanted to go on a spiritual quest, that really concerned me.
• 15:15
  Yeah, that makes me think of mushrooms or something. That's what people do. They go under the woods
• 15:21
  and they do shrooms and they go on their spiritual quest. I mean, not just shrooms, other drugs too.
• 15:29
  But yeah, you're not the only one that is going to draw some conclusions about what that might mean.
• 15:36
  The group of friends headed toward the Gifford Pinchot National Forest for their campsite at the
• 15:43
  Canyon Creek campground. They drove out to Chalachie near Highway 503 from their traveling
• 15:51
  steadily northeast, reaching Forest Service Road 54. When they start saying Forest Service Road,
• 15:58
  it's fairly remote. Yeah. Next, they would have traveled down a series of small backroads
• 16:07
  until they reached Canyon Creek. Their total drive time would have been roughly three hours or so,
• 16:13
  depending on traffic. Once they found the specific area, they intended as their campsite,
• 16:19
  it would have required some initial prep work to make it comfortable for their stay as this area,
• 16:26
  both the trails and the campsites were entirely unmentained. Oh wow. Okay. So this is like, it is for
• 16:35
  experienced campers. It's not like a campground with a bathroom. Correct. Definitely no facilities.
• 16:43
  Nothing crazy though, really, just clearing away debris like pine needles from items like the
• 16:49
  camp stove that they would need to use before setting up their tents and preparing their evening
• 16:54
  meal. On June 9th, all of the accounts I've read say the group was simply enjoying themselves as
• 17:02
  the afternoon began to fade into evening. The group proceeded to enjoy their surroundings
• 17:08
  no doubt unaware that by morning they would reach a horrifying realization. One of them was missing.
• 17:17
  I feel like this is like a horror movie. A little bit. It's giving sort of a last house on the left
• 17:27
  in the extreme, but when Kelly had left their campsite that evening, most accounts state this was
• 17:37
  around 5 p.m. One thing everyone agreed on and paraded as loudly, frequently as possible,
• 17:46
  was that she'd been as naked as the day she'd entered this world. Wow. Okay. Well, okay, almost.
• 17:56
  She was wearing a fanny pack containing a knife, matches, and a compass.
• 18:02
  Honestly, though, a baby wearing a fanny pack has a pretty cute image, though. So you're welcome.
• 18:12
  If that's what you thought of when I said that, because I immediately pictured the baby in a fanny pack.
• 18:19
  That's cute. Yeah. That's the best I could do. That would be like what you would need if you were
• 18:27
  going to take anything with you, I guess, in a fanny pack in the woods. Yep. Those would be some
• 18:33
  arguably critical items. Right. I would say, yeah. That night, she'd been set on the idea of a
• 18:42
  spiritual quest, which we already knew that, but better naked. Arguably. Yeah. I mean, is this
• 18:54
  maybe the best environment for it? Probably not. It's a bit of a whole. It's like shedding your
• 19:00
  layers and just like being as free as possible. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of
• 19:07
  this that just, you know, it makes sense. And you're 19. Right. And your brain's still cooking. And
• 19:14
  so many things. And now I feel ancient. And I have to move on. Some reports of the events that night
• 19:25
  state that she told them that she would be back by midnight. And this, I think, based on everything I've
• 19:31
  read is the account that I trust most. Unfortunately, however, when she didn't return by midnight,
• 19:39
  their campground and the surrounding area would have been pitch black. The terrain is rough and
• 19:46
  densely forested, making it difficult to navigate even in the daylight for some. So regardless of
• 19:53
  mounting concern, it simply would not be practical to do much in the way of searching until sunrise.
• 20:02
  Thumbnax Thumb. While it had been a warm day and the area didn't see any precipitation leading up to
• 20:08
  and less than a quarter of an inch in the immediate hours surrounding her disappearance. Very
• 20:16
  important information. And you can trust me on this because I literally spent close to 30 minutes
• 20:22
  verifying historical weather data alone for this case. I really want everyone to know. I know what the
• 20:29
  weather was. Unfortunately, the temperature overnight plummeted. There was grave concern about the
• 20:36
  various ways on you could come to harm alone and completely exposed in the woods. And yeah, make it
• 20:45
  I'm cold. And I feel like you're having the emotional and sort of intellectual also responds that
• 20:56
  I very much did as well to to this. Now is when I'm going to start reading you some comments that
• 21:06
  unfortunately not everyone is going to have the same response to the same information that's being
• 21:14
  presented. I don't know, I guess people have to decide to do with that what they will, but I know how
• 21:21
  I felt about it. And I've already said I got a real I got a real Iq. Okay, so we've decided to use
• 21:31
  an alias for this commenter. Kobe teeth said guessing she was high as a kite or hammered drunk to do
• 21:41
  such a thing. Temperatures could have brought about hypothermia relatively quickly if she got lost.
• 21:49
  And there's every chance she did. The next comment goes on to say totally agree this seems pretty
• 21:57
  obvious to me. She might have even taken the drugs etc as part of the quest. It's the old cliche
• 22:06
  take peyote or whatever. Wander off to meet your spiritual animal. Because real life is not the
• 22:14
  movies instead she meets the fate you outline. Thank goodness it was probably relatively painless.
• 22:20
  Oh god. She might even have succumbed while imagining herself on the verge of ultimate enlightenment.
• 22:30
  Okay. For what it's worth, under Sheriff Dave Cox said that while it was a bit unusual for a 19
• 22:41
  year old to leave their campsite with extremely limited supplies and completely nude, there was no
• 22:48
  indication that she was on drugs at the time of her disappearance. Maybe they just didn't find any
• 22:56
  and they didn't want to push the subject. I don't know. But they're the cops. So that's a thing that
• 23:05
  they typically will do. Right. They'll concerning given the circumstances. Friends gave no indication
• 23:15
  that this behavior was strange for Anu or that drugs were involved despite numerous comments
• 23:22
  of contrary. I never really realized what a cesspool Reddit really could be. It's late to the party.
• 23:31
  But of course, there would be speculation to some it just didn't seem like it could have occurred
• 23:37
  in any other scenario than some drug laden haze. I mean, there are a lot of different options. Sure
• 23:45
  are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was like my first thought too, but like I'm not going to go say that
• 23:51
  that happened. Like that's what happened for sure. Yeah. I would say based on the dates, I know for
• 23:59
  a fact that these are people that are speculating on an open missing persons case. Yeah, that's
• 24:07
  big. Yeah. You're a key. Search crews were dispatched to the area in the hopes of rescuing Anu quickly
• 24:15
  before she succumb to the elements or another threat. Footprints that appeared to be a match
• 24:23
  to her were found. So they ran that lead down. They discovered that she had apparently crossed a creek
• 24:31
  and climbed up to a road on the other side of the canyon from her group's campground.
• 24:37
  I mean, that just seems like a lot of, I mean, she started off when it would have still been daylight
• 24:45
  hours. So all of this is entirely plausible at this point. And she's certainly a physically capable,
• 24:52
  young woman. From here, it gets a little bit more murky. But just like sounds like she,
• 24:59
  so she did all that to get up to a road. It sounds like she was like trying to run away.
• 25:03
  It's interesting that you should say that she had apparently been headed north toward
• 25:09
  forest service road 54. K9 units from Pacific Crest search dogs were brought in as well,
• 25:19
  but her scent was lost once they reached paved roads in the area. I'm concerned. Yeah, I'm going to
• 25:29
  read to you the next comment from the hammer. Although the weather on the day she disappeared was
• 25:35
  mild temperatures that night dipped into the 40s. Without any clothes, she would have quickly succumb
• 25:42
  to exposure. And that is a direct quote from the Charlie project. So 40s that cold, I guess it's
• 25:49
  pretty cold, but it's barely above freezing. Okay. Yeah, I guess. And you're naked. I guess. Yeah.
• 25:56
  Yeah. I know. I mean, I kind of ran through all of the scenarios and it almost felt like I was
• 26:03
  a little bit like bargaining like, oh, no, that, that can't be. But I kind of just felt like the 40s
• 26:11
  aren't like immediate death like to me. I feel like you could find like a hole and cover yourself
• 26:17
  with stuff and like the 40 like I feel like you could survive that like it's not like it's dangerous
• 26:23
  for sure. Right. So I could see that. I was just like wanting to know how immediate is the
• 26:29
  standard. Yeah. I mean, I think at the point that she hasn't returned the following morning
• 26:35
  and they know that she has remained out in the forest overnight. I think that's that's where it
• 26:44
  becomes dangerous. But this comment goes on to say paired with her footprints ending on a road.
• 26:52
  This implies she was taken or picked up. But also is it possible she walked along the road for a while
• 27:00
  or is that too weird considering she was naked? I mean, I don't think it's weird. I don't know.
• 27:06
  I'm actually bracing myself for the next series of comments here. There is a reply to that comment
• 27:16
  specifically and it says they did have to postpone the search due to weather. It's all just a strange case.
• 27:24
  I want to say she was picked up too. There's theories that maybe she joined a tribe or a cult.
• 27:30
  There's just not much info on this case at all. So it's all just so mysterious. That feels unnecessary.
• 27:39
  And I feel like maybe it's a poor choice of words and or the sentence structure, but I feel like
• 27:49
  that almost feels like you are attributing sort of the same problematic
• 27:56
  characteristics to being a part of a tribe as a cult. Yeah. Yeah. That was that's interesting.
• 28:06
  And then also like if you had proof of that, that would be important information that they would
• 28:12
  need to go find if she's truly missing. But if you don't, that's just such a weird thing to waste time.
• 28:23
  And I get it. These are not tips that are being called into law enforcement. These are people speculating.
• 28:34
  I will say again with these comments, they are during a time when the case may not be active in the
• 28:42
  sense of like they're not actively searching for her. But I will say that the case was active in a
• 28:48
  different sense. There is another reply. Anu would never have joined a cult. She was a beautiful,
• 28:57
  free spirit. Something terrible happened to my dear friend. There's no other explanation. My
• 29:05
  community combed the woods for years after there was never any sign of her anywhere past to put
• 29:13
  Prince. Unfortunately, the group of friends she was with is who I'm suspicious of even though they
• 29:20
  were my friends too. And I wouldn't want to think that of any of them. Damn. The search initially proved
• 29:29
  unsuccessful and by the following Saturday almost a full week. As the search was suspended at 6 p.m.,
• 29:38
  there were two reported injuries on the search and rescue team. An ankle injury as well as a
• 29:45
  paw injury to one of the K-19. No. Puppy paw. Puppy paw.
• 29:51
  Gosh, and these are people who are like used to searching in these areas of they're getting injured.
• 30:00
  Damn. I am so glad you said that because my next sentence is this further highlighted just how
• 30:08
  treacherous the area currently being searched and where Anu had seemingly vanished from really
• 30:16
  were. I mean, those are not ideal circumstances. Yeah. She had shoes on or did she have shoes on?
• 30:25
  She did not. No, she was just the fanny. The reporting that I read is literally just the fanny pack.
• 30:35
  The local authorities were even said to have contacted search and rescue teams in neighboring areas.
• 30:42
  Reportedly, even an Oregon just in case. Sadly, eventually the search of the area was suspended
• 30:51
  without further plans to continue. Though the authorities gave no indication they suspected foul play.
• 30:58
  Anu's DNA was submitted to the National Missing Persons Database. Now to be fair, this would prove
• 31:06
  useful for identification in the event that remains were later discovered in the area. Though
• 31:14
  her body has never been located, officials do believe it is likely that Anu's come to the elements,
• 31:21
  whether by hypothermia or another natural cause. Officially, her case remains unsolved. However,
• 31:31
  I have some more comments to share to provide contacts to discussions around her case,
• 31:38
  as well as the various unofficial theories that have emerged in the years since Anu's disappearance.
• 31:46
  Okay, I was wondering what do they do in terms of searching if they lost her scent at a paved road.
• 31:54
  So I understand that they were still searching the area, but were they,
• 32:00
  like is there other places they would then search or did they search or did they just search the area,
• 32:07
  like the park area? Ultimately because it's, I mean, it's a massive national forest.
• 32:16
  They did search a lot of the area surrounding the campground, and they also reached out to other
• 32:25
  authorities in the area. And I mean, literally even in the neighboring state. Yeah. So I don't think
• 32:37
  that the search was necessarily inadequate, or you know, but I do think it presents some challenges
• 32:48
  when they use scent dogs, and then they kind of come to a dead end with that, especially based on
• 32:56
  these specific circumstances. And unfortunately, I mean, this is someone who is unfortunate
• 33:06
  that they were naked only in the sense that there's, there's not a lot for them to be able to leave behind.
• 33:14
  You can't rip off the sleeve of your t-shirt and leave it somewhere as like a marker.
• 33:20
  Yeah, that's true. Which I'm sure is not where your head is at all at when you're, you know,
• 33:29
  going out on a spiritual quest. Right. And again, I think it's, I think it is important to know
• 33:36
  that, you know, this is, you know, she said, I'll be back before midnight, but that was
• 33:43
  fully seven hours prior. I mean, this is like still very much daylight hours.
• 33:50
  I feel like it kind of bakes the question like what happened while there was still light outside.
• 33:58
  And there's a lot of different potential explanations, obviously.
• 34:05
  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was just kind of wondering like, what do you, what do they do? I guess they would
• 34:11
  like wait for a tip or maybe like her or define something. Yeah. Hopefully you find something
• 34:20
  in the forest that somehow indicates, you know, I don't know what that would be. It's hard to say.
• 34:29
  So theory number one, she is no longer missing or never was. And in this instance, we're sort of
• 34:39
  citing various reasons or it's kind of a, it's kind of a, it's multiple theories. It's like one A,
• 34:48
  one B, one, you know, for reference, her last YouTube video was uploaded two days before her
• 34:56
  disappearance. And her Facebook account has also remained dormant. We're back to the comments.
• 35:04
  I don't like this. I will say that a lot of the comments did not make me feel good, but there were
• 35:13
  some, and I do believe that I have one a little bit later here. I feel it's sort of renewed my faith
• 35:21
  in humanity for what it's worth. Okay. A little bit. If she was recovered alive, the family may have
• 35:30
  kept it private because they perceived her as requiring mental health intervention. This is pure
• 35:37
  speculation. Of course, I have no idea if she was suffering from mental illness or just a free
• 35:43
  spirit following her heart. But if she was recovered and required hospitalization, her family may
• 35:50
  have kept it quiet. Unfortunately, there is still a terrible stigma about mental illness,
• 35:56
  despite the strides made to normalize it in recent years. Again, I'm only speculating,
• 36:03
  since we're still waiting on confirmation she was even recovered at all. I hope she was, and that
• 36:10
  she's doing well, and that she found the answers she was looking for that day. So this hints at some
• 36:19
  speculation that the family, people have specifically pointed to her brother as someone who may have helped
• 36:28
  her to obfuscate her own missing person's investigation. There is just next to nothing that substantiates
• 36:39
  us at all, and I can understand having the thought. And this person I do feel like at least
• 36:47
  approached this in a semi-respectful and responsible way by saying this is purely speculation.
• 36:54
  But we do have some additional comments. I don't really understand what they're trying to say.
• 37:01
  Yeah, I think what they are implying is that she may have been having some sort of a mental
• 37:10
  health episode, and that once she was recovered, her family has not spoken publicly to confirm or deny
• 37:20
  that she has been found, because they are seeking mental health treatment for her.
• 37:26
  Which is admittedly a possibility, but again, this is what happens.
• 37:38
  That just seems like way out there. It is, I don't know.
• 37:42
  It is, and I do feel like some comments are approaching the situation and the discussion a little bit
• 37:50
  more respectfully. And like I said responsibly about, I'm acknowledging that this is pure speculation,
• 37:58
  but based on the information I have, maybe this is sort of my theory. I get that. So some subsequent
• 38:06
  comments, well, you know, I hope you're right. I know I don't know her, but I wish they would let
• 38:13
  those of us who think of her know she's all right too. No personal details needed.
• 38:19
  An additional comment, I'm pretty sure if her name is page is still active, then she is still missing.
• 38:26
  An additional response, not necessarily, Megan Good of the Charlie Project,
• 38:33
  speaks frequently of her frustration with nameless because they often leave up profiles
• 38:40
  well after a person has been recovered. She reaches out to them to ask that a page be taken down
• 38:46
  and generally gets no response. Really? Is that true? Hard to say. I feel like you should know.
• 38:54
  I have not seen this accusation levied frequently.
• 39:01
  And I can only speak to my experience of like, you know, what I what I've come across when I research,
• 39:07
  but we will come back to this comment about nameless and her status in a little bit. Okay.
• 39:14
  So related to sort of this theory of like,
• 39:19
  she's not missing or possibly never was. Anyone else think it's strange that after December of 2017,
• 39:29
  the family completely stopped posting about her. Her mother would post on her wall very often,
• 39:35
  even on holidays. Now it's nothing. Hmm. I was going to ask like, does her family still like,
• 39:42
  look for her or say anything about looking for her? And I feel like those are questions that
• 39:48
  it's natural to have. I will say that I understand that impulse. But at the same time, people don't
• 39:56
  handle this type of grief and loss. There's like, there's no right answer.
• 40:06
  One thing I did find very interesting is that they're in these groups and I'm sure this does happen
• 40:16
  in some of these message boards. There were more than a few people that did
• 40:24
  purport to know her and or her family personally. And I'm sure maybe some of these commenters do.
• 40:32
  As someone who grew up with her, her brother had addiction issues last I knew. And I think that was
• 40:39
  probably a large aspect behind his post. There is sort of an infamous post. I think it's a big nothing
• 40:47
  burger. I think it speaks to someone who's experiencing and then frightably, it's just, they're
• 40:54
  experiencing loss even if she is bound. There's nothing definitive. Essentially what it amounts to
• 41:03
  was they created a Facebook page for, you know, her case and for her disappearance. And at some point,
• 41:12
  he posted basically, if you're looking for answers, you're not going to find them here. And I feel like
• 41:19
  to me, that just sounds like someone who is grappling with this immense loss and really struggling
• 41:27
  with the fact that they have no answers about their loved one. Yeah. I don't think that I find
• 41:33
  it the lightning rod that some other people do on various social media platforms. Maybe they're
• 41:40
  right and I'm wrong, but I could totally see though how like it in unsolved cases, like no information
• 41:48
  and then that, like I could see how people jump on that. Absolutely. That's sad.
• 41:54
  This commenter goes on to say, I have questions as to why her friends let her leave naked and intoxicated.
• 42:04
  To my knowledge, they were all doing mushrooms and she just up and walked off essentially. Easily
• 42:11
  could have been stopped. It's strange to me that her friends let her leave and that her trail dropped
• 42:17
  off at a road. That screams foul play to me. Sorry, I am commenting so late. I decided to look her up
• 42:25
  today and this post showed up. And this comment is actually quite a bit more recent than many of the
• 42:32
  others. I mean, I definitely have those same thoughts too, but like if you're all shrooming
• 42:38
  supposedly are all intoxicated, I mean, maybe they didn't designate a babysitter.
• 42:44
  It's possible. Who knows what everyone else, if they were tripping balls, you know.
• 42:49
  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and just because the police didn't find any evidence that that was the case
• 42:56
  doesn't mean that it wasn't, but I think the fact that the law enforcement in this case has come
• 43:04
  out and said like we have not found anything to substantiate that as being an aspect of the case.
• 43:10
  Where are you getting this information that everybody or anyone was on any type of psychedelics?
• 43:21
  Are they just assuming or like where can we feel very much like there are a lot of assumptions being made.
• 43:28
  And unfortunately to me, I felt like maybe I am maybe it's me and maybe I'm being too extreme, but to
• 43:38
  leap from a 19 year old that is saying they want to go on a spiritual quest, which admittedly,
• 43:45
  there are implications, there are things that we're all going to sort of like have rolling around
• 43:51
  in the back of our heads, but to go from that to she joined a tribe or a cult.
• 44:00
  Okay. First of all, how racist can you be? I don't know. Maybe that person thought that there was
• 44:08
  some sort of a tribal association out there that was cultish. I really don't know. I'm not sure,
• 44:15
  but I think it feels very problematic to me to assume that like there is a brown person
• 44:23
  and there has to be some sort of like this nefarious connection to that. Yeah.
• 44:31
  I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but as I'm reading all of these things,
• 44:38
  I'm thinking, do they understand that she's actually not native or indigenous? She's Asian/Pacific
• 44:46
  Islander, according to all of the other data out there. So do they just assume that all brown people
• 44:54
  are members of a cult or a tribe? Yeah. Again, I'm extrapolating on things that people have said,
• 45:04
  and maybe this is me taking it like they went too far and I'm going that much further. I just feel like
• 45:12
  your take was icky. Yeah. It just felt like none of this changes the facts of the case in terms of
• 45:22
  like this is where she went missing. This is who we're looking for. And I get that there would be
• 45:28
  interest in other details of the case, but like we haven't found her yet. Yeah. So like maybe let's
• 45:34
  focus on that. I don't know. I think like it's harmful to imply that she like up and joined
• 45:40
  something or like, because then they'll stop looking for her. I do. I think that's a part of it.
• 45:48
  Me too is that like assuming that you know she's done something wrong, it's concerning. It's
• 45:55
  concerning. I don't think that the police are necessarily reading Reddit boards. And you know,
• 46:02
  they're not they're not checking through subreddits and reading YouTube comments. Right. Hopefully in
• 46:09
  connection professionally to a case, but maybe maybe if they don't have anything, maybe they do
• 46:17
  send someone to scour the internet. I mean, we do know that that can be an aspect of an investigation.
• 46:24
  So again, I just, I don't know. I didn't like it. I don't like it. I'm never going to like it.
• 46:29
  Okay. So the final in this series of comments, she wanted to go on what she called a spiritual quest
• 46:37
  and thought it to be a spiritual quest in doing so in that mindset. Also, it wasn't okay to allow her
• 46:46
  to do that alone. And I wouldn't have ever let it happen, but I moved and wasn't able to protect
• 46:53
  her. The people there that night, if they let her go knowing she went and I know they did because I
• 47:00
  heard their stories myself. And as I told them, they should let that way on them. They deserve it too.
• 47:08
  I'm so disgusted with anyone who would let that happen. She may have been picked up at the highway.
• 47:16
  She was the brightest energy I've ever met. There's a lot going on with that one.
• 47:23
  But it's, and it's a lot of blame. I definitely understand you got to look out for your friends,
• 47:29
  but like she was an adult. Yeah. You can't necessarily just stop somebody from doing something they
• 47:37
  want to do. I don't know. And she was naked. What are they going to do? I mean, I'm going to go over.
• 47:42
  Also, it's daylight hours. So at that point, maybe wasn't that alarming. Yeah. I feel like there's
• 47:49
  a lot of shade being thrown at the friends. And I feel like based on the scenario that they were
• 47:55
  actually in, I just don't think that it's as salacious as some of the coverage has maybe led people to
• 48:04
  believe. That would be awful to be those friends. And if you truly didn't do anything. Right.
• 48:11
  Wrong. How awful would you feel? And then you have people kind of thinking that maybe you had
• 48:16
  something to do with it or you are to blame for letting her go. I love that I'm realizing in this
• 48:25
  moment why I wanted to mention that she was a Libra. This is such Libra energy. Yeah. Seeing both
• 48:34
  sides. Yeah. And it's all about, it's all about like the scales and justice. And I just was like, wow,
• 48:43
  how is this hitting me in real time? As much time as I've spent researching and writing this up, how,
• 48:52
  how did that not occur to me until just now? But here we are. Her social media has been quiet.
• 49:01
  But some have seen indications that her family has perceived silence in the years following her
• 49:07
  disappearance might also be an indication that they know something the public at large just not.
• 49:14
  Which I feel like is a really, it's a really tough pill to swallow that somebody could be missing
• 49:22
  and their family could be covering for them or somebody could be classified as missing and not
• 49:29
  actually missing. I will say this. There were a lot of comments and I initially screenjotted
• 49:36
  several and intended to read them as part of this that we're talking about comments that her
• 49:44
  brother had made on her missing persons page comments specifically talking about how the family
• 49:51
  had stopped posting about her. And I was like, oh my god, I'm concerned because, and I'm sure you could
• 50:00
  do this with almost any other case, but this case, it didn't have as much information out there about
• 50:09
  it as I would have liked. And I started trying to look for more information. And I wanted to know what
• 50:17
  people thought about the case. But I got a little bit panic thinking, oh my gosh, like is it possible
• 50:26
  that she's not missing? Like is it possible that just some of this stuff hasn't been updated?
• 50:35
  I really, I really started to worry and here's the thing. Even if that were the case, I
• 50:46
  would rather talk about someone who I thought was missing but had been bound. Yeah. Then to have
• 50:54
  their case go like into the cold dark night. But my text to you guys was going to be
• 51:08
  about I decided not to send it because I could not give away what we were going to be talking about.
• 51:18
  And it was it would have made no fucking sense. But my text was going to be
• 51:30
  to the effect of I am so relieved I am like sad, happy crying right now because I, I mean I went full
• 51:42
  web sleuth, level shit. And I don't, I that's not something that I necessarily do for every case, but I
• 51:55
  wanted to know that people miss miss her and they fucking do. They really do. If they're lying or they
• 52:09
  know something that we don't, they're doing a damn good job of keeping it under wraps and
• 52:15
  here's hoping they have a good reason. I don't think that's the case. I really don't. And I feel like
• 52:22
  there's so many shitty things that people have said. But for brother, on June 9th, 2024,
• 52:32
  missing you extra today. You're the most beautiful soul I've ever met. I'm forever grateful for you
• 52:40
  and it hurts so bad. I can't hold you tight and tell you I love you one more time. I'm so fortunate to
• 52:48
  have these videos you've made to comfort me and remind me of everything we've ever done together.
• 52:54
  You're my best friend forever and I hope to see you again. It's one of a couple of posts that he made
• 53:01
  about her in 2024. And unless he's scouring Reddit and thinking he's got to cover some shit up, I just
• 53:12
  know. I know that people can say what they think and what they feel or suspect in a case, but
• 53:21
  this one really got me. This one really got me because I just felt like
• 53:27
  everyone has been young and done things that maybe weren't the best idea. It doesn't mean that
• 53:36
  they deserved bad things to happen to them. No, not at all. I mean, gosh, even if she was
• 53:44
  totally super fucking high and like went out and like that still does not mean that she
• 53:54
  doesn't deserve to be looked for or right. I didn't. The fact and I don't think that there's
• 54:03
  anyone that came out and said, well, she was high. So nobody should be looking for her. But I feel like
• 54:09
  what people say in so many words and the implications, like that matters. Yeah, it's like, well,
• 54:18
  you deserved it. Like, right. What was she wearing? Yeah, nothing.
• 54:25
  Kind of doesn't matter. Doesn't actually does not matter. Obviously, there's the hotly debated
• 54:35
  theory that the disappearance was brought about by a psychedelic experience gone wrong. But there
• 54:41
  are some additional theories. While some have postulated that Anu sent dropping off at the paved
• 54:50
  section of road might mean she had run off with an unknown party in a bid to flee her family and
• 54:57
  friends to find freedom. Others have speculated whether she may have been forcibly abducted from
• 55:06
  that same location instead. And while it seems far fetched, the name of at least one infamous
• 55:14
  serial killer has been mentioned in passing, if not directly in connection to her case. No,
• 55:21
  I think that the consensus is that this is unlikely, just given the remoteness of the location.
• 55:32
  But I am going to read to you some comments here. As a Washington resident, I find it more plausible
• 55:41
  that she died of something nature-related than foul play. Although I recognize foul play is possible.
• 55:48
  I'm not familiar with the environments of the campground she left, but the forests are dense here.
• 55:54
  Think of how hard it was to locate many of Ridgeways victims.
• 56:04
  Never Bundy did I believe come up in an additional comment that I did not save.
• 56:12
  Good. Hashtag never. I was hoping you were going to say him.
• 56:18
  No, unfortunately, just based on the geographic location,
• 56:24
  Ridgeway would be the more relevant arguably, but in one of the Reddit threads that I was looking at,
• 56:34
  someone posted a link to a YouTube video and they were insistent that the person that they saw in
• 56:43
  the video was on you. Having watched a portion of this YouTube video, I can safely say I do not believe
• 56:58
  this person is on you and I sincerely hope it is not. It is someone who is clearly unhoused
• 57:08
  and may or may not be experiencing mental illness and/or some substance issues.
• 57:16
  Not great. The section of the comments not necessarily related to that, but this is kind of in the same
• 57:28
  region of that block that I'm going to read from. It starts really, who, when, and where did you see this?
• 57:41
  And then it really just takes a hard left and they go in a different direction.
• 57:47
  There is another thread. It is not interesting to read and it is upsetting if you think that you
• 57:54
  are about to see a video of a person that has been missing and maybe this case assault, hope beyond hope.
• 58:01
  I can only imagine for anybody that actually knew her even tangentially how they would have felt
• 58:08
  and arguably, wow, just what a shitty feeling. And there are purportedly multiple people that
• 58:21
  did know her that had been active in these threads and that person who did view the video and comment
• 58:31
  and respond said, you know, this is a hard no. This is definitely not her.
• 58:37
  It's heartbreaking to think about them opening that link. And like in a weird way, hoping beyond hope
• 58:46
  that maybe this is her and she's safe and maybe there's some sort of explanation or I can't. I mean,
• 58:55
  the hardest thing about a missing person's case has to be that you just don't have answers. And to
• 59:00
  think that you're going to get an answer, whether it's the good, bad, or the ugly, even for a minute, I,
• 59:09
  yeah, this is a local in the area that's commented. I want to add for people unfamiliar with the area,
• 59:19
  there is no cell phone reception and no satellite reception. Even though it's 2013, she wouldn't
• 59:27
  have been able to just call someone to pick her up in the remote woods like that. That campground is
• 59:34
  really remote and in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of wilderness areas just east and north
• 59:41
  of the creek. That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, forest service road. And this is another one where it's
• 59:52
  potentially someone that knows her or knows of her. I know her and her brothers well, but move to New
• 1:00:00
  York. She was like my little sister. I grew up with the whole family and gotten trouble and stuff,
• 1:00:07
  even stole car ones with her brother, LOL. But she was the brightest energy you could ever imagine.
• 1:00:14
  And a waste to the world. And if her brother knew anything at all, I don't see how he would not say
• 1:00:22
  anything. I don't get it. He was protective over her. And one more comment, I saw a report that human
• 1:00:33
  remains were found in that area in August. Testing being done should know soon. So that is the one
• 1:00:43
  comment in this particular thread that hints at the latest theory from the Schomania County
• 1:00:51
  Sheriff's Office on August 10, 2024. A hiker rec creating in the big lava bed located within the
• 1:01:01
  Gifford Pinchot National Forest in eastern Schomania County reported locating human remains.
• 1:01:08
  The hiker found a human skull and captured the GPS coordinates of location. A deputy responded
• 1:01:16
  to the location the next day, but was unable to locate the skull reported. The hiker volunteered
• 1:01:24
  to return to the area accompanied by a Schomania County Sergeant. And the skull was recovered
• 1:01:31
  on August 15, 2024. Wow. Based on the preliminary investigation, it is believed the remains
• 1:01:42
  belong to a hiker that went missing in 2013. The missing hiker was last observed in the big lava bed,
• 1:01:52
  and after numerous coordinated search efforts was never located. The skull, along with other
• 1:01:59
  remains located in the area, was transported to the Clark County Medical Examiner's Office for
• 1:02:05
  Definitive Identification. This is an ongoing investigation and no risk to the public has been
• 1:02:12
  identified. Though we could not find any indication that law enforcement has provided confirmation
• 1:02:20
  or even publicly speculated about the possible identity of the remains, many believe they are likely
• 1:02:29
  either Maureen Kelly or Christopher Zitziewicz going out on a limb here and I'm guessing on the
• 1:02:39
  pronunciation. I didn't bring up my proposal this year just because I wanted to talk about that.
• 1:02:47
  Or even just because it lines up with this time of year. Arguably, the discovery of the remains,
• 1:02:56
  that was literally within a couple of weeks of my wedding. Yeah. And it's nice to reminisce about
• 1:03:02
  like the good things that have happened in my life. I mean, getting engaged was super exciting. So much
• 1:03:09
  though that I but dialed pictures of my wrist. And being a newlywet is another major milestone in my
• 1:03:20
  life. But it hit me when I got to a certain point in my research for this case that
• 1:03:28
  auto is only a handful of years younger than us. It's not like it's the first time that I looked
• 1:03:38
  into a disappearance of a young woman. Obviously for some reason, something about this case just,
• 1:03:46
  it just hit different. It just hits somehow in a specific way at a specific time and that's how
• 1:03:56
  we know when we want to talk about something. It's just there's so much, there's so much to experience
• 1:04:05
  in life between ages 19 to 31. This September would mark her 32nd birthday. And I was doing a
• 1:04:16
  lot of the same things that Anu did at that age. Even the ones that drew her so much
• 1:04:23
  eye are all over the internet, all the way in her disappearance. Anybody ever been to
• 1:04:30
  Sobby's Island? You know, do you remember at the very beginning of this episode when I was like,
• 1:04:35
  oh, you sent me news? Like, how did I know this is the that would have fit so well into this episode?
• 1:04:43
  Yeah. Oh my gosh, you guys, I have been to a beach where it is permissible to be nude. Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  I'm in. What I will say is that I think how we view people, it changes based on some of the choices
• 1:05:06
  that they make and then when they go missing, everything is under a microscope, but none of it
• 1:05:14
  makes her less missing. Marine Kelly was 19 years old at the time of her disappearance.
• 1:05:23
  An Asian Pacific Islander female with black hair, brown eyes, about 5 feet, 7 inches tall, weighing
• 1:05:34
  roughly 150 to 160 pounds. And whether it's the recent remains that helped to identify and bring
• 1:05:45
  her home, I hope her family has answers someday soon. This is just one that I didn't know going into
• 1:05:55
  this that there was potentially an update. Yeah. Wow. So they still haven't identified it at all?
• 1:06:05
  They have not released the identity of the remains. Oftentimes for remains that are recovered,
• 1:06:14
  when they do testing like this, it can take a significant amount of time before that
• 1:06:23
  result is back and then even more so before the public is made available or made aware of the results.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah. Yeah. I think it's not uncommon for it to take months, sometimes and I think honestly,
• 1:06:41
  based on everything that I have seen as an observer, it very possibly, very unfortunately,
• 1:06:51
  typically years. We need to know. I know. I mean, not just us mostly for their families and
• 1:07:00
  their friends and loved ones, but like also us. Everybody, everybody, like just we need to know. We,
• 1:07:09
  the collective we we need to know. We are going to do the braid and I really hope they figure it out.
• 1:07:24
  I know. Just like have some answers. Okay. I'm going to go with this one because something
• 1:07:33
  when I split the deck this last time, I have drawn the king of swords. Oh, when I split the deck,
• 1:07:42
  I just felt like I was drawn to that and I guess we are going to see. Okay. Okay.
• 1:07:51
  What animal was on it? It looks like a like a heron of some sorry. Okay. I'm going to read the main
• 1:08:00
  interpretation and then we'll we'll take a look at the little buck. Okay. Our key words are judgment,
• 1:08:06
  intelligence, mental power and communication. In some decks, the king of swords sits on a throne
• 1:08:14
  wearing royal robes and a crown and brandishing a mighty battle sword. Other decks show him in
• 1:08:24
  military armor in a reading he may represent an actual person in which case he's usually a mature man
• 1:08:32
  known for his intelligence, communication skills, fairness and objectivity. The upright king
• 1:08:40
  represents intellectual pursuits, communication and spiritual knowledge and steady. A spiritual
• 1:08:50
  quest. Yes. Yeah. I know. I was kind of that's exactly what I was thinking. Interesting.
• 1:08:57
  You may be mastering a mental task or using your communication skills successfully.
• 1:09:04
  Sometimes this card indicates a decision, judgment or legal matter. If the king signifies an actual
• 1:09:13
  person, he may seem stern, analytical or aloof, perhaps a lawyer or judge, a professor, military
• 1:09:22
  leader, scientist or religious leader. A cult leader? I'm not picking up that vibe, but it I sort of
• 1:09:31
  was thinking hmm maybe. I just hear a lot of the word judgment too and it just make me think of
• 1:09:37
  the comments like they'll all of the judgment from the people. So much judgment. And I feel like
• 1:09:45
  just based unfortunately not on a lot. Yeah. In a reading about money, the king upright recommends
• 1:09:52
  taking charge of a financial matter. Do your homework don't let your emotions influence a decision
• 1:10:00
  involving money or investments. This card may also mean profiting from intellectual endeavour.
• 1:10:07
  Which I assume means everyone is joining the Patreon.
• 1:10:11
  It just made me think of like what you were saying of how we don't make very good decisions when
• 1:10:18
  we're younger and maybe like more, I don't know more emotional. If that's the right word, but you
• 1:10:24
  were saying like our brain is fully developed or not making like really good decisions. So.
• 1:10:30
  No, I think that that is such a good point to draw though because it is it's a little bit more
• 1:10:36
  like leading from your heart because you just don't maybe have the experience to indicate
• 1:10:43
  where you maybe should do otherwise. Yeah. If the reading is about your job, it may indicate you work
• 1:10:51
  in a field that requires keen intelligence, good communication or analytical ability. The king
• 1:10:58
  advises you to show leadership regarding decisions or judgments. Clarity and objectivity are
• 1:11:05
  important. That almost makes me think of like the sheriff. I don't know. I'm sort of thinking about
• 1:11:14
  some of the statements that they have released and they're saying like it's unusual for this particular
• 1:11:22
  set of circumstances, but we don't have any indication that you know drugs are involved.
• 1:11:28
  Thinking about sort of coming from a place of objectivity. Interreading about love, the king symbolizes
• 1:11:37
  a relationship based on shared interests and ideas rather than passion. You and or your partner
• 1:11:44
  resist expressing deep emotions, preferring a friendly partnership. Perhaps you fear losing
• 1:11:52
  independence if you open your heart. Oh, she wanted to be like free. Didn't you say something about
• 1:12:00
  like freedom or were you just yeah, were people speculating that she um it's hard to know how much
• 1:12:07
  is speculation and how much people have extrapolated even on direct quotes from people close to
• 1:12:15
  the situation. I will say I was correct. It was a it was a blue hair and oh yeah, great blue hair and
• 1:12:26
  authority born of rational thought clarity of mind and purpose insight seriousness and strictness
• 1:12:38
  exacting standards and truth truth. Yeah, I feel like I don't know I feel I feel as though there was
• 1:12:48
  something sort of that she was searching for. I don't think that like people have speculated that
• 1:12:56
  you know maybe she was looking to you know escape her life. I don't know I wasn't there and I don't
• 1:13:05
  know her but I do think there are a lot of people that would like to see this case solved. Yeah
• 1:13:11
  and certainly all of us that are on the periphery are the least of all concerns obviously but
• 1:13:19
  I really do hope that her family will get some answers. I think it's possible certainly. It's a
• 1:13:27
  distinct but unlikely possibility that some of what her brother has posted on social media is
• 1:13:35
  performative and I know that there are cases where maybe I would maybe I would say the same thing
• 1:13:42
  that other people have. I think that it's it's such a jaded perspective based on the information
• 1:13:50
  that we have and I really hope that doesn't color people's perception of the case enough that you
• 1:13:59
  know they're not they're not doing the hard work that needs to be done in order to find her.
• 1:14:04
  I hope that doesn't keep a missing person missing. I did want to add because listen it's been a minute
• 1:14:18
  since I've checked our PO box. We did have some mail. Also we had a package. Oh so I wanted to just share
• 1:14:28
  while we're here and you can say hi to everybody and acknowledge receipt officially.
• 1:14:35
  We got your mail. We got it. Okay so we have actually I think we have a couple of Christmas cards. I
• 1:14:46
  did receive some messages because people did not realize that our PO box had changed. We did have
• 1:14:55
  our PO box for it did to what degree of success remains to be seen. We've got a Christmas card.
• 1:15:06
  This was emailed to us a few weeks back. They had some issues with the
• 1:15:14
  forwarding from our old PO box. I know. We tried. I know we tried. Okay they did not make it easy.
• 1:15:23
  So thank you Sean and John. Your dogs are unbelievably adorable in these little cartoons.
• 1:15:33
  Yeah you're going to want to see this when we're like back in person you can see this.
• 1:15:38
  Oh my god. Okay and then I'm assuming we can share this. We can message Sam to find out. But
• 1:15:47
  okay so you can't really see this but on the back he has done something that all of my Midwestern
• 1:15:57
  relatives have done. I presume for generations he has written a note so that we know where he was
• 1:16:06
  and when. Oh I love that. I love when people do that because my mom would do that all the time.
• 1:16:12
  That's my favorite thing. I know. I'm like is it even a photo if you don't know where it was taken?
• 1:16:19
  Sam at Oregon Ghost Con 2024. He is wearing the Ghost Con hat in the photo. That is so cool. I
• 1:16:33
  want. I know. I know. We have to go. I know we got to go. We got to go. Okay so this we received from
• 1:16:40
  our friends at Sins and Survivors. They are based in Nevada, Sean and John. This says which
• 1:16:50
  you call Drin. Okay. Okay. And it has a sticker that says you've always had the power my dear.
• 1:17:00
  You just had to learn it for yourself. Which is from the Wizard of Oz. So let's see that sounds
• 1:17:07
  pretty familiar. Couple of theater kids over here. Okay. We just made our own musical on a Patreon
• 1:17:16
  bonus earlier. Yeah. Okay. Oh. Oh. The Celtic Cross. A guide to using your tarot class. Oh cool. I love
• 1:17:29
  those things. We got to use it. Yeah. Doll. Hey, we got to use this really nice gift someone got
• 1:17:36
  for us. This is so soft. Oh, it's it's silky on one side but then like fuzzy on the other.
• 1:17:44
  Like Vail rit. Like Vail. Oh, that's so cool. Nice. I don't yeah. We don't have a lot of experiences.
• 1:17:55
  Well, I don't with like spreads. So I mean, I use them but I've never had like the cloth historically.
• 1:18:04
  Oh, I'm so excited about this. You know how I feel about the Celtic cross. And it's like
• 1:18:10
  easier when there's like a guide. Obviously like, oh my goodness. This is like each of the card,
• 1:18:18
  like the placeholders. They're embroidered. It's not just like. Oh, cool. Oh, cool. So it's not just like
• 1:18:28
  laser printed or yeah. Oh my gosh. That's so fancy. God. Now we gotta send them a gift. I know.
• 1:18:37
  We don't deserve you. We should do a reading for them with it. We totally should.
• 1:18:43
  Oh, is there any other male that that was all we have for now? What you guys send us more male
• 1:18:51
  known to say. That was plenty. This is I am so excited about. Me too. Should we do our thing? Yeah,
• 1:19:01
  let's do it before this dog loses it. Tells me. Who did you put your hand in front of it?
• 1:19:09
  Did Christ just put his hand in front of the camera? No. He didn't? No. Dude, I'm freaking out. Okay.
• 1:19:19
  Did you see that? No. What happened? I don't have good service. Like you're just like kind of blurry.
• 1:19:27
  You've been like in and out and like glitchy and that's fine. I know I don't have good service. But
• 1:19:32
  just now it literally looked like someone just like put their hand in front of the camera. Like this
• 1:19:37
  is a joke. So I thought Chris just walked by and like did this? No. So I don't know if it was just like
• 1:19:45
  if it glitched and like zoomed in on like it will. Okay. What's funny about this is I love the both
• 1:19:54
  of us were just like Chris. Yeah. I was like Chris. I fully okay. So here's the thing. What's
• 1:20:03
  ironic about this is that the pod lab door has always been this like like horror movie,
• 1:20:11
  creaky and like stiff like the door that everybody's like ganking on trying to escape. He fixed it.
• 1:20:20
  Cassie. Oh wow. That shit ain't the same. It opens and closes silently, which I conveniently
• 1:20:29
  forgot when I thought I heard. I thought I heard it opening and closing like it used to. Oh weird.
• 1:20:39
  That bitch is silent now. So I don't know what the fuck happened earlier. Well I feel like what I
• 1:20:47
  was seeing was just like your camera glitching out and I don't know how to do it. I don't know.
• 1:20:52
  I don't know if it's going to show it because on your like it's going to when it's recording it's
• 1:20:57
  going to be smooth. Yeah. But it was just really it literally just like looked like this. But like
• 1:21:06
  blurry and glitchy. Oh my god. I hate that. And it hasn't done anything like like it's been you
• 1:21:14
  and your face will kind of glitch out and stuff, but it hasn't done this full screen like.
• 1:21:20
  It looked like a blue hand. That was so weird. Blue hand? Yeah like I thought it was like like I'm
• 1:21:27
  being haunted by a fucking avatar. I was like I thought it was like your lighting, but that wouldn't
• 1:21:33
  really make sense. No. The blue eyes are on this side. Okay. I'm going to start can't I'm going to
• 1:21:41
  start video-camoring the screen seriously. Wow that was insanely creepy. I'm thinking about that
• 1:21:51
  now for a really long time. Yeah. I got to watch the video back then because I am curious like anything
• 1:21:59
  up. Ah. Okay. I feel like we have not had anything really all that weird happen in this apartment.
• 1:22:11
  It's you're doing you're doing what you shouldn't do. Renovating. You renovated.
• 1:22:18
  No. I did was fix the door. Just the hinges. Just the hinges. The ghost said not that they
• 1:22:30
  be renovating. But there wasn't a ghost here before. We're getting rowdy. It's renovation season.
• 1:22:38
  I see a hammer. Let's go. Oh my god. No. Do a nice do a nice cleansing of your of the office.
• 1:22:59
  Have a creepy day. We'll see you next Tuesday. Unless a big giant blue hand just like covers up my
• 1:23:10
  face forever. Gosh. Please be safe. We do want to see you next Tuesday. So if you go into the woods,
• 1:23:18
  be safe. If you need to go on a spiritual journey, just please do it safely and with people. And yeah,
• 1:23:25
  maybe pack some clothes just just in case you get lost. That would be good. But also there's nothing
• 1:23:31
  wrong with free ball. And if that's what you want to do too. That's for sure. Come to tarot with us.
• 1:23:38
  The way. Oh. She's such a piggy. He's such a little piggy. Oh my god. She's so cute. No. I just want
• 1:23:46
  smush her face. I know. She's got a really smushable face. So smushable. Okay, maybe I'll throw
• 1:23:53
  some food in her bowl. Okay, so we can finish this shit. pnwhauntsandhomicides.com