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MOTIVE FOR MURDER? INCEST · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: A young father of four seemingly disappears into thin air,
0:12
Speaker 1: and questions begin to him out what happened to John
0:16
Speaker 1: Thomas McGuire. You know, for so many girls and boys,
0:29
Speaker 1: their father's influence means the world to them. It shapes
0:34
Speaker 1: who they become as adults. So when John McGuire seemingly
0:39
Speaker 1: drops off the map, his children are distraught. Take a
0:44
Speaker 1: listen to this. It's February and John Bamma McGuire is
0:47
Speaker 1: making plans for a move. The plan is to set
0:51
Speaker 1: out from his Minnesota home to visit his mother. This
0:54
Speaker 1: father at texts Angela Ericson, that's the last contact the
0:57
Speaker 1: thirty eight year old makes with family or friends. When
1:00
Speaker 1: Mother's Day rolls around in May, McGuire doesn't contact Ericson.
1:04
Speaker 1: She tells the Bluefield Daily Telegraph that McGuire always calls
1:08
Speaker 1: her and his own mother. Four Mother's Day, son Jacob's
1:11
Speaker 1: summer birthday also came and went. That's when Ericson, after
1:15
Speaker 1: four months, filed a missing person's report. You know, it's
1:19
Speaker 1: one thing to miss a call on Mother's Day. It's
1:23
Speaker 1: an entirely different matter to miss one of your children's birthdays. Again,
1:30
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Gray, thanks for being with us here at
1:32
Speaker 1: Crime Stories and joining me an all star panel. First
1:36
Speaker 1: of all, doctor at Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologists, former medical examiner,
1:41
Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse
1:47
Speaker 1: Field Guide. She's also a former police detective with a
1:50
Speaker 1: Lexington County Sheriff's Department. Also with me, author speaker, former
1:55
Speaker 1: cop and undercover detective, author of twelve and Murdered on
1:59
Speaker 1: Amazon On. Steve Lampley joining me from Manhattan. Renowned psychologist
2:05
Speaker 1: Karen start at Karen Starton dot com. Veteran trial lawyer,
2:10
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Troy Slayton joining us from La and
2:13
Speaker 1: you can find him at Floyd Scernlaw dot com. Special
2:19
Speaker 1: guest joining us mister McGuire's daughter, Justice McGuire and the
2:26
Speaker 1: mother of three of his children, Angela ericson Mother of Justice,
2:32
Speaker 1: Jacob and Genesis. I'm focusing right now on how John
2:40
Speaker 1: McGuire seemingly vanished into than air. So John McGuire, this
2:45
Speaker 1: data four is going to move home ultimately to Alabama.
2:50
Speaker 1: So he takes off in his truck from Minnesota to
2:53
Speaker 1: drive from Minnesota to Alabama, but he never makes it
2:58
Speaker 1: straight out to Angela ericson the mother McGuire's three children,
3:03
Speaker 1: Justice Jacob in Genesis. Angela again, thank you and Justice
3:07
Speaker 1: for being with us. Angela. That's quite a trip. I
3:11
Speaker 1: guess he was driving. His vehicle was a a car,
3:14
Speaker 1: a truck. So, Angela, he's going well over a thousand
3:18
Speaker 1: miles from Minnesota to visit his mother in Alabama, and
3:23
Speaker 1: then he's going to circle up to West Virginia. Why
3:26
Speaker 1: was he going to West Virginia. I don't honestly think
3:28
Speaker 1: there was initial plan to go to West Virginia. I
3:32
Speaker 1: do believe that the truck that they were driving stalled
3:37
Speaker 1: on them, and then the course just took them to
3:42
Speaker 1: West Virginia to where John's girlfriend, Amanda's family reside. Okay,
3:48
Speaker 1: so the whole West Virginia stop was really because the girlfriend,
3:53
Speaker 1: Amanda McClure, had family there. Yeah. Did John make it
3:58
Speaker 1: to Alabama. He did not, So he got as far
4:01
Speaker 1: as Minnesota to West Virginia. Correct. Yea the mother his
4:07
Speaker 1: mother lives in Alabama. Was she ill at the time, Yes,
4:12
Speaker 1: she was. That's the reason why he was going on
4:14
Speaker 1: her to move with her, to help her. You know,
4:18
Speaker 1: Karen start and joining me new York psychologist. It's amazing
4:24
Speaker 1: what people will do for their mother. Have you noticed that? Well?
4:27
Speaker 1: I noticed that from you, Nancy, and I noticed that
4:30
Speaker 1: for me and so many people. You know, it's all
4:32
Speaker 1: about Mother's Day. Our mothers give birth to us and
4:35
Speaker 1: they hold our hearts. I'm just thinking, you know, my
4:39
Speaker 1: mom lives with us now, Karen start and there is
4:42
Speaker 1: no way I would miss honoring her in some way
4:47
Speaker 1: on Mother's Day. And it really struck me when we
4:51
Speaker 1: were listening early to our friends at crime Online that
4:55
Speaker 1: he failed to make that yearly call. I mean they
4:59
Speaker 1: spoke more off then once a year, but every Mother's
5:02
Speaker 1: Day he always called, and he didn't. That would be
5:06
Speaker 1: a big red flag to me. Karen Starr, it's an SOS,
5:10
Speaker 1: absolutely an sos, Nancy, it really is. Yeah, Angela Ericson,
5:18
Speaker 1: tell me about that, him missing the call on Mother's Day. Um,
5:22
Speaker 1: you know, I knew that something was wrong. And um,
5:27
Speaker 1: there was just no way that he wouldn't have called
5:29
Speaker 1: myself or his mom, or in fact my mom for
5:32
Speaker 1: that matter, because he just did it religiously. There was
5:35
Speaker 1: no question. So when he would call you on Mother's Day,
5:38
Speaker 1: Angela Ericson, what would he say. He would say, happy
5:42
Speaker 1: Mother's Day. You're you're a great mom, and I'm glad
5:44
Speaker 1: you are the mother of my children. Then you're beautiful,
5:47
Speaker 1: and I hope you have a wonderful day. He always
5:49
Speaker 1: made sure that it was it was a good day,
5:51
Speaker 1: regardless if he was on the phone calling or he
5:54
Speaker 1: was there. So and then he missed a birthday whose
5:57
Speaker 1: birthday was Jacob's birthday. That he missed the Jacob sixteen birthday. Yes, oh,
6:02
Speaker 1: and that's a big one too, you know, Angela, I
6:04
Speaker 1: don't know if you're like me, I have thirteen year
6:06
Speaker 1: old twins. I can't believe I'm even saying that that
6:08
Speaker 1: they're thirteen now. But that is a big day November
6:14
Speaker 1: four at our house, because we really have a great
6:21
Speaker 1: time on their birthdays. And you know, I wouldn't miss
6:26
Speaker 1: it for anything. Nothing could pull me away from their birthday.
6:30
Speaker 1: So what did you think when he missed calling you
6:32
Speaker 1: at birthday on Mother's Day and then he missed calling
6:36
Speaker 1: on Jacob's birthday. I honestly I thought the worst because
6:40
Speaker 1: I knew that just there was no way in the
6:43
Speaker 1: world that he wouldn't have called his only son on
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Speaker 1: his sixteen birthday to wish him, but happy birthday, so
6:50
Speaker 1: to Stephen Lampley, joining US author speaker, former cop undercover,
6:55
Speaker 1: author of twelve A Murdered and you can find him
6:58
Speaker 1: at Stephen David Lampley dot com. Stephen Lampley. This is
7:01
Speaker 1: often referred to as routine evidence, and I always clarify
7:06
Speaker 1: I don't mean like run of the meal evidence. I
7:09
Speaker 1: mean evidence of someone's routine. For instance, first thing I
7:14
Speaker 1: do every morning is take care of all the pets
7:20
Speaker 1: and my mom, get the twins stuff for school ready,
7:24
Speaker 1: and make a cup of hot tea. If I didn't
7:27
Speaker 1: do that, my husband would know something was very, very wrong. Right.
7:32
Speaker 1: That is evidence of a routine. What do you make
7:36
Speaker 1: of this? Lampley mentioned that stands out. That stands out
7:40
Speaker 1: more so than is somebody figured out to get the
7:43
Speaker 1: mail or it was late for work. Not calling a
7:48
Speaker 1: child or mom is a substantial indicated that something is
7:54
Speaker 1: going wrong, has gone wrong, and that is evidence. But
7:57
Speaker 1: on the other hand, Stephen Lampley, it could be argued
7:59
Speaker 1: to jury. Okay, I'm not happy he missed calling on
8:03
Speaker 1: Mother's Day, but that means absolutely nothing. Right, But for
8:07
Speaker 1: this guy, I mean a lot because he never failed
8:09
Speaker 1: to do it. A lot of guys, believe it or not, Lampley,
8:12
Speaker 1: do not call mom on Mother's Day? Shock but true?
8:16
Speaker 1: That well, that's true. But for this gentleman, he did
8:19
Speaker 1: on a religious basis, and that's a red flag and
8:22
Speaker 1: that does indicate to us that there is a problem.
8:34
Speaker 1: Clime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we were talking about
8:40
Speaker 1: the sudden disappearance of a young thirty eight year old
8:44
Speaker 1: dad a four. Everything's going along fine until suddenly he
8:49
Speaker 1: misses a call on Mother's Day and then his son's
8:52
Speaker 1: sixteenth birthday. And that is when mother of the children,
8:57
Speaker 1: Angela ericson of something is very wrong. Okay, Troy Slightton,
9:01
Speaker 1: go ahead, Lampley and I have built our castle. Go ahead,
9:07
Speaker 1: knocked down our castle of dominoes by saying this means nothing.
9:11
Speaker 1: Simply not making a phone call, the absence of committing
9:17
Speaker 1: some sort of act is not evidence of anything, absolutely not.
9:22
Speaker 1: And people, I can't see you, but I guess you're
9:25
Speaker 1: saying that with a straight face. People change behaviors, people
9:29
Speaker 1: fall in and out of relationships. It means absolutely nothing
9:33
Speaker 1: and it's not evidence of anything. WHOA It wouldn't survive
9:38
Speaker 1: don't you have children, TROYE Lytton? Don't you have children? Absolutely?
9:43
Speaker 1: Two beautiful children. Okay? Are you married? Yeah, Troy Lytton.
9:48
Speaker 1: You say people fall in and out of relationships. That
9:52
Speaker 1: may be true when it comes to men and women
9:54
Speaker 1: or romantic love, the erroslove, but the mommy child love,
10:03
Speaker 1: you don't fall in and out of that relationship. And
10:07
Speaker 1: I certainly hope Troyce Layton, that you, as a father
10:10
Speaker 1: don't fall in and out of your relationship with your children.
10:14
Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? That you can love them
10:16
Speaker 1: one day and then the next day. Well, there's some
10:19
Speaker 1: days I want to kill them, but no, I absolutely
10:21
Speaker 1: do not. Ever. Have you ever missed their birthday? Oh? Interesting,
10:26
Speaker 1: So you haven't fallen out of your relationship with your children?
10:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, okay, But you're saying that that could have
10:33
Speaker 1: happened with this guy who would never once missed calling
10:36
Speaker 1: or being there for their birthday. A lot of people
10:38
Speaker 1: are different, and it's it's a possibility. You remind me
10:46
Speaker 1: of this ostrich I saw at the zoo one time
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Speaker 1: in San Diego. He had his head in the sand
10:53
Speaker 1: and his butt in the air, not looking at anything
10:57
Speaker 1: going on around him no offense to ostriches. But what
11:01
Speaker 1: I'm saying is this evidence is hitting me in the
11:04
Speaker 1: head like a brick. So Angela Ericson, let me go
11:09
Speaker 1: to your daughter joining us, Justice McGuire, Justice, thank you
11:12
Speaker 1: for being with us. Welcome Justice. How old are you?
11:16
Speaker 1: I am nineteen? I'll be twenty in September this year,
11:18
Speaker 1: you know, Justice, You know, don't tell my husband, but
11:21
Speaker 1: you know who my soulmate is. Oh, my father. Yep,
11:25
Speaker 1: he's in heaven now. But we laughed at the same things.
11:31
Speaker 1: We butt heads over politics. I learned how to dance
11:35
Speaker 1: standing on his feet to Perry Como in our living
11:39
Speaker 1: room where we didn't quite have enough money to my furniture,
11:43
Speaker 1: so we had a lot of dance space, you understand. Yeah, So,
11:50
Speaker 1: and I miss him every single day. Now, tell me
11:54
Speaker 1: about your dad. My dad was, I could say, the
11:58
Speaker 1: best dad in the world. He always made your us
12:01
Speaker 1: kids had everything we wanted and needed, let alone even
12:04
Speaker 1: more so. I always enjoy spending time with him, and
12:07
Speaker 1: I wish I could just go back and to spend
12:09
Speaker 1: another day with him. So how Justice, You and me, both,
12:12
Speaker 1: little girl, You and me both now you say he
12:16
Speaker 1: always made sure you had everything you needed or wanted,
12:20
Speaker 1: like the other day, Justice John David my son and
12:25
Speaker 1: I like to watch well, he likes to watch and
12:27
Speaker 1: I like to watch him watch Kung Fu movies. Don't laugh.
12:31
Speaker 1: And then my daughter, who was not into that at all,
12:35
Speaker 1: God bless her little soul, is curled up on the
12:38
Speaker 1: sofa looking at some shopping spot and she says, Mom,
12:44
Speaker 1: can I order a pair of blue jeans? Well, it
12:46
Speaker 1: nearly broke my heart that she would even ask, because
12:48
Speaker 1: you know some children would just do it because she
12:51
Speaker 1: has my PayPal, And I said, sweetheart, yes, please get
12:56
Speaker 1: you a law outfit. I want her not to just
12:59
Speaker 1: have of what she has to have. I want her
13:03
Speaker 1: to have things she wants to. Now tell me about
13:06
Speaker 1: your dad. What would he do for you? Oh? No,
13:08
Speaker 1: I would always I was. I've been an oldest, so
13:11
Speaker 1: he always I don't know. I think me and him
13:13
Speaker 1: had a closer relationship. I wouldn't say more than the
13:15
Speaker 1: other kids, but I was always with him when I
13:18
Speaker 1: was younger because I've always been a daddy's girl. So
13:21
Speaker 1: like I'd be like I want this, and you'd be like, okay,
13:23
Speaker 1: put it in the cart and then you can get it.
13:24
Speaker 1: So it was like always like pretty much you know,
13:28
Speaker 1: spoiled justice. You know what, You're not spoiled. You just
13:32
Speaker 1: have a mom and dad that really love you and
13:34
Speaker 1: are willing to sacrifice themselves so you can have that
13:39
Speaker 1: thing you put in the cart. Angela ericson the Mom
13:43
Speaker 1: of Justice. Jacob and Genesis tell me about John's relationship
13:50
Speaker 1: with his children. They were you know, he loved them
13:55
Speaker 1: more than life itself. And you would have done anything,
14:00
Speaker 1: you know, who sit in a bus in front of
14:02
Speaker 1: a bus for those kids if that's what it took
14:04
Speaker 1: for them to you know, be healthy and happy. And
14:08
Speaker 1: you know, the one thing that you know a father
14:11
Speaker 1: justice the most is as she graduated this last year
14:13
Speaker 1: and her dad wanted nothing in the world but to
14:16
Speaker 1: see her graduate, and you know, he wasn't able to
14:19
Speaker 1: be there, and that was pretty devastating for her, you know. So,
14:24
Speaker 1: I mean, he just loved them, and the bond between
14:27
Speaker 1: you know, parents and kids is something that you just
14:32
Speaker 1: can't sever, you know what I mean. It's and it's
14:35
Speaker 1: really sad that he's not here to continue that bond
14:38
Speaker 1: with our children. You know, I want to go to
14:40
Speaker 1: the editor of the Bluefield Daily Telegraph special guests joining us.
14:44
Speaker 1: Samantha Perry. You know, Samantha, you like me, deal with
14:49
Speaker 1: a lot of stories every day. There was a car
14:55
Speaker 1: crash on Main Street, the mayor is caught in a scandal,
14:59
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, Samantha, with the crush of cases
15:05
Speaker 1: that we deal with, I think very often for some
15:08
Speaker 1: people it's easy to forget these stories aren't really stories
15:12
Speaker 1: at all. They're about real people with real suffering and
15:18
Speaker 1: real issues. I mean, when you hear Justice talking about
15:23
Speaker 1: her dad, it just adds a whole different layer of
15:28
Speaker 1: what we're reporting today. How this dad is en route
15:33
Speaker 1: on a trip and then suddenly just disappears. It really
15:39
Speaker 1: changes the way you report if you let yourself think
15:42
Speaker 1: about the facts. Samantha, do you agree, Yes, I do,
15:47
Speaker 1: Miss Grace, this was absolutely one of the most horrific
15:52
Speaker 1: cases I have ever covered. You know, I can't imagine
15:59
Speaker 1: how horrible this was for the family members, for his children.
16:04
Speaker 1: And it all started with him simply heading out on
16:07
Speaker 1: a trip, and then they didn't hear from him, and
16:10
Speaker 1: then Mother's Day came, and then the birthday came, and
16:13
Speaker 1: then finally he's reported missing. Angela Ericson, who reported him missing,
16:21
Speaker 1: and when, after you know, several months of not hearing
16:25
Speaker 1: from him, I called justice and I said, I think
16:28
Speaker 1: we should probably go make a missing person's report for
16:31
Speaker 1: your dad, and she agreed, so her and I went
16:33
Speaker 1: down to the police station and made that report in
16:35
Speaker 1: June of twenty nineteen. Now, let me understand something. He
16:39
Speaker 1: had taken off in his truck from Minnesota, where you
16:45
Speaker 1: guys live, to visit his mother in Alabama, stopping by
16:51
Speaker 1: West Virginia, where the girlfriend had family in round. Do
16:55
Speaker 1: I have that right, Angela? No, the West Virginia trip
17:00
Speaker 1: was not actually in their plans. Okay. The reason they
17:04
Speaker 1: went to West Virginia is because the car that they
17:07
Speaker 1: were driving stalled in Kentucky. And I believe that Amanda
17:10
Speaker 1: contacted her sister or her father in West Virginia to
17:15
Speaker 1: come and pick them up because the car was not
17:18
Speaker 1: going anywhere. Okay, So that's how they ended up in
17:20
Speaker 1: West Virginia. Got it. Now, it's odd to me that
17:23
Speaker 1: they we don't hear anything from the girlfriend, so she
17:26
Speaker 1: missing too. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are
17:42
Speaker 1: talking about the disappearance of a young dad just thirty
17:45
Speaker 1: eight years old. Of four children, and with me the
17:48
Speaker 1: mother of three of those children, Angela Ericsson, and his
17:53
Speaker 1: daughter Justice. Also with me are all Star Panel and
17:57
Speaker 1: Samantha Perry from the Bluefield Daily Telegraph. After you reported
18:02
Speaker 1: him missing, Justice maguire or, first of all, what is
18:05
Speaker 1: that like, filling out and missing person's report for your dad? Well,
18:08
Speaker 1: at first, at first I didn't really want to do it,
18:11
Speaker 1: but at the same time I did. It was kind
18:13
Speaker 1: of hard because I didn't want to go up there
18:15
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, I haven't seen my dad and
18:17
Speaker 1: you know how long and whynot. So going up there,
18:20
Speaker 1: I was crying and didn't really I was just hoping
18:23
Speaker 1: for the best. I was like, please find my dad,
18:25
Speaker 1: bring him home by one I'm safe. So and what
18:28
Speaker 1: if anything did the police do defined him? Justice? One day,
18:32
Speaker 1: they actually went to my mom's house and knocked on
18:35
Speaker 1: her door, so you know, and you know everything that
18:40
Speaker 1: went on or whatever, and they were talking to her
18:41
Speaker 1: and she didn't even realize, like they said, you put
18:46
Speaker 1: in a missing person report, and she was like I
18:48
Speaker 1: did because she We just have tried to like push
18:51
Speaker 1: ourselves forward, to try and move on, but it's just
18:54
Speaker 1: like in the back of our heads like it's just
18:56
Speaker 1: stuck there. So so weeks pass and no knee news
19:00
Speaker 1: and then suddenly an odd twist take a listen to
19:04
Speaker 1: our friend Caroline four back at Fox fifty nine. September
19:08
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, State troopers were questioning Larry Paul McClure at
19:12
Speaker 1: the Welch Detachment for violating his sex offender registry. That's
19:16
Speaker 1: when McClure revealed shocking information, leading investigators down a dark
19:21
Speaker 1: and twisted path of murder and incest. On September twenty fourth,
19:26
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, we were advised of this crime by Larry
19:30
Speaker 1: Paul McLure. He told them about a murder in McDowell
19:33
Speaker 1: County that happened seven months prior. On February fourteenth, twenty nineteen.
19:39
Speaker 1: When Trooper K. M. Sadler followed up, McClure's story checked out.
19:44
Speaker 1: We did respond to the residence where the crime occurred
19:48
Speaker 1: and the victims remains were found on the property. How
19:51
Speaker 1: in the world does a registered sex offender behind mars
19:56
Speaker 1: and he's talking to law enforcement at the Wilch Detachment
20:02
Speaker 1: for violating his saxophone registry rules? What does that have
20:06
Speaker 1: to do with a missing young dad? A four. How
20:10
Speaker 1: did those two connect? Angela Ericsson? When did you learn
20:18
Speaker 1: that John? When did you learn that John's remains had
20:23
Speaker 1: been found on this property? Um? The police came to
20:27
Speaker 1: my apartment UM two officers and when I answered the door,
20:32
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I didn't know what was going on.
20:34
Speaker 1: There papers in the hand and h They basically came
20:38
Speaker 1: to me and said, you have made a police report
20:40
Speaker 1: back in June, and we were here to tell you
20:45
Speaker 1: a little bit about that. And I, you know, it
20:47
Speaker 1: was just I my heart sank in my stomach came out.
20:50
Speaker 1: It's like it's about done. And that's when they proceeded
20:52
Speaker 1: to tell me that his remains were found and that
20:56
Speaker 1: they were there was a murder investigation going on. It's
21:00
Speaker 1: just when did you learn about your dad? My mom?
21:03
Speaker 1: The cops went to her house and then she texted
21:06
Speaker 1: me and she asked me, she said, are you sitting comfortably?
21:08
Speaker 1: And I was like confused because I didn't know. I
21:11
Speaker 1: knew something she was going to say, something like that
21:13
Speaker 1: I probably didn't want to hear. And I was sitting
21:15
Speaker 1: in the backseat of a car and she called me
21:17
Speaker 1: and she told me, and I I lost it. I
21:21
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. So I kind of just
21:25
Speaker 1: I had to go back to my house, and the
21:26
Speaker 1: cops were actually leaving because they were coming to tell me.
21:29
Speaker 1: My mom sent them to my house so I could
21:31
Speaker 1: talk to them if I had any questions or anything.
21:33
Speaker 1: And I just stood there crying, like they were like,
21:36
Speaker 1: do you have any questions? I couldn't answer them. I
21:38
Speaker 1: just wanted to be like left alone. I didn't know
21:39
Speaker 1: what to do, to be honest with you. Samantha Perry,
21:42
Speaker 1: editor with the Bluefield Daily Telegraphs, Samantha, what can you
21:45
Speaker 1: tell me about the location where John's remains were found?
21:50
Speaker 1: Is it a rural is it in a backyard? What
21:52
Speaker 1: is it? McDowell County is an extremely rural county here
21:58
Speaker 1: in southern West Virginia. It actually has the nickname of
22:03
Speaker 1: the Free State just because it is. Again it's it's
22:08
Speaker 1: just so rural. And the area where his remains were
22:13
Speaker 1: found in Sky Gustie, Yeah, it is very very rural,
22:22
Speaker 1: very very country. You know, it's not a residence that
22:26
Speaker 1: you're just going to come across, so I have to
22:29
Speaker 1: drive out to what I mean, I know what you're
22:31
Speaker 1: talking about, Samantha Perry. I grew up on a red
22:33
Speaker 1: dirt road with a well dug in the backyard and
22:36
Speaker 1: dug by my grandfather. So I get it. You're not
22:40
Speaker 1: just gonna drive by and notice disturbed earth. So Samantha Perry,
22:46
Speaker 1: editor with the Bluefield Daily Telegraph, was his body found
22:50
Speaker 1: in a backyard? I gives, ma'am how far from the home?
22:54
Speaker 1: I would say approximately about six to eight feet from
22:57
Speaker 1: the home. So let me follow up with you. Roy Slayton,
23:00
Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney joining us out from LA. You heard,
23:03
Speaker 1: Samantha Perry eight feet from the home. How could you
23:07
Speaker 1: not notice a body is buried in your backyard? Don't
23:12
Speaker 1: you think that's pretty strong circumstantial evidence. It is certainly
23:16
Speaker 1: strong circumstantial evidence. And what's also a criminal defense attorney's
23:22
Speaker 1: nightmare in the case is someone being arrested merely for
23:27
Speaker 1: violating their sex offender Registry regulation, violating it, and then
23:33
Speaker 1: suddenly this game he knows about a murderment, suddenly getting
23:36
Speaker 1: diarrhea of the mouth and telling the police everything he's
23:40
Speaker 1: done since he was six years old. That's not the
23:42
Speaker 1: police fault, No, it's not. The constitution protects you from
23:47
Speaker 1: unreasonable searches and seizures. You can't be beating or tortured
23:51
Speaker 1: or forced into a confession. The constitution does not stop
23:55
Speaker 1: you or protect you from gabbing, from getting carried. And
24:01
Speaker 1: I'd bet he this guy McClure, the purv the registered
24:07
Speaker 1: sex offender, blurted out he knew where a body was
24:10
Speaker 1: to save his own skin from that parole violation. He
24:14
Speaker 1: thought if he could cough up some info, they would
24:17
Speaker 1: go light on him for the pro violation. I bet
24:20
Speaker 1: you dollars to donuts that's what happened. He's not trying
24:24
Speaker 1: to help anybody, trying to save his own skin. Spontaneous concession,
24:28
Speaker 1: spontaneous statement isn't even covered by Miranda. To doctor Michelle
24:32
Speaker 1: Dupree joining me forensic pathologists, former medical examiner and author
24:38
Speaker 1: of the Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse
24:43
Speaker 1: the Old Guide, Doctor Dupree, yet another buried in a
24:49
Speaker 1: shallow grave story? All right, would you think that someday
24:56
Speaker 1: someone would get rid of a body not by burying
25:00
Speaker 1: eight feet from the batten door in a shallow grave. Yes, Nancy,
25:04
Speaker 1: this is incredible. We often see that clandestine graves are
25:08
Speaker 1: no more than eighteen to twenty four inches deep. They're
25:11
Speaker 1: often discovered much more quickly than the perpetrator would think.
25:15
Speaker 1: Is that why it's so easy for, for instance, cadaver
25:17
Speaker 1: dogs to find bodies and shallow graves. Well, that's certainly
25:21
Speaker 1: one of the reasons, but there are many more reasons
25:23
Speaker 1: that cadaver dogs can find these even in deeper graves too.
25:26
Speaker 1: Doggpre what would being buried in a shallow grave for
25:32
Speaker 1: a period of months due to a human body, how
25:36
Speaker 1: would that affect decomposition and therefore thwart an identification of
25:44
Speaker 1: the body. Well, Nancy, as you know, it depends on
25:47
Speaker 1: a lot of different factors. It's going to depend on
25:49
Speaker 1: the environment, whether it's cold or hot, whether it's a
25:52
Speaker 1: damp or whether it's dry. But the thing is that
25:56
Speaker 1: even after about six months or so, we can often
25:59
Speaker 1: determine and many things that happened to that body. For example,
26:03
Speaker 1: oftentimes we can determine the cause of death. The decomposition
26:06
Speaker 1: rate will certainly hinder some evidence, but not all of
26:11
Speaker 1: it crime stories. With Nancy Grace, I'm still trying to
26:28
Speaker 1: help make the connection how this datafore on a trip
26:32
Speaker 1: with his girlfriend ends up in a shallow grave in
26:37
Speaker 1: somebody's backyard, and a register sex offender trying to save
26:41
Speaker 1: his own skin, blurts out at the location, Well, take
26:44
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at people dot com. Authorities
26:47
Speaker 1: located the body of thirty eight year old John Thomas
26:49
Speaker 1: McGuire in a shallow grave on the McClure property in Skygusty,
26:53
Speaker 1: West Virginia, according to the Bluefield Daily Telegraph. Shaudrey has
26:56
Speaker 1: said that McGuire's death happened after a Valentine's Day meal
27:00
Speaker 1: that her father and sister had accused McGuire of being
27:02
Speaker 1: a federal informant. The outlet reports that McGuire was struck
27:06
Speaker 1: on the head with a wine bottle, tied up, tortured,
27:09
Speaker 1: and injected with methamphetamine. He was also reportedly strangled and buried,
27:12
Speaker 1: then dissentered, dismembered, and then buried again. Shaudrey said her
27:16
Speaker 1: father and sister told her she had to be the
27:18
Speaker 1: one to inject McGuire with meth because she had nursing experience.
27:22
Speaker 1: So you have to have nursing experience to kill somebody,
27:26
Speaker 1: you know. I'm very, very curious about the connection between
27:30
Speaker 1: this registered sex offender and how he knows about the
27:34
Speaker 1: dead body. While according to people dot Com, he was
27:37
Speaker 1: there after the Valentine's Day dispute. Guys, take a listen
27:43
Speaker 1: to our friends at People. Shaudrey said that after the murder,
27:46
Speaker 1: her father and sister went on like nothing happened. Then
27:49
Speaker 1: about a month later, they applied for a marriage license
27:52
Speaker 1: in Virginia. The father and daughter were married on March eleventh,
27:55
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Let me understand something, Samantha Harry, Am I
28:00
Speaker 1: hearing this correctly? So the father we're talking about is
28:04
Speaker 1: fifty five year old Larry McClure. The daughter and his
28:12
Speaker 1: daughter McClure's daughter, and he McClure go get a marriage certificate. Yes,
28:21
Speaker 1: isn't that incest? Do I understand the facts that I'm
28:24
Speaker 1: hearing from people dot com? Yes, they did travel mcdell County,
28:29
Speaker 1: West Virginia borders of Taswell County, Virginia, and they did
28:34
Speaker 1: cross the state line, and they actually did. Mary, So,
28:38
Speaker 1: Larry McClure, senior, the registered sex offender, marries who his daughter,
28:45
Speaker 1: Amanda Michelle Naylor McClure. They married in Taswell County roughly
28:50
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after the murder took place. So,
28:53
Speaker 1: Samantha Perry, you just told me that Larry McClure, the
28:57
Speaker 1: sex per Register sex offender, married his daughter Amanda McClure.
29:03
Speaker 1: But I thought Amanda McClure is the DADA four John
29:08
Speaker 1: McGuire's girlfriend. Yes, she was the girlfriend of John McGuire.
29:14
Speaker 1: I like your answer. There's only one way to answer that. Yes,
29:18
Speaker 1: it kind of sounded like you were holding your nose
29:20
Speaker 1: at the time, and I completely agree. Okay, So if
29:23
Speaker 1: Samantha Perry with the Bluefield Daily Telegraph is correct, and
29:27
Speaker 1: I have strong reason to believe she is the motive
29:31
Speaker 1: from murder? Is the discovery of incest? Did does father
29:37
Speaker 1: of four John McGuire find out his girlfriend is the
29:44
Speaker 1: lover of her own dad? Take a listen to our
29:49
Speaker 1: cut number three. This is Katie Johnston at WCCO four knees.
29:55
Speaker 1: A Kentucky man and his two daughters are accused of
29:57
Speaker 1: killing a Minnesota man last and Valentine's Day. The Bluefield
30:01
Speaker 1: Daily Telegraph of West Virginia reports the victim, John McGuire,
30:05
Speaker 1: was in a relationship with one of the two daughters.
30:08
Speaker 1: Investigators say after the murder, the man and his daughter
30:10
Speaker 1: across the state lines then to get married, and a
30:13
Speaker 1: letter to court officials this month, Larry McClure from Kentucky
30:16
Speaker 1: confesses to the killing and explains the roles he and
30:20
Speaker 1: his daughters played in the crime. McClure tolda investigators his daughter,
30:24
Speaker 1: Amanda McClure, was in a relationship with McGuire. Larry calls
30:28
Speaker 1: Amanda the ringleader of the murder. Now Larry, Amanda, and
30:31
Speaker 1: Anna Shoudery are all facing one counter first degree murder
30:35
Speaker 1: for McGuire's death. So to Samantha Perry, editor the Bluefield
30:39
Speaker 1: Daily Telegraph, am I correct. John McGuire was brutally murdered,
30:44
Speaker 1: a painful death because he discovered his girlfriend was in
30:49
Speaker 1: an incestuous relationship with her father. Yes, her father would
30:55
Speaker 1: basically not tolerate her being with another man. So her
30:58
Speaker 1: father had a jealous she was seeing someone else. That
31:01
Speaker 1: was her implication. Yes, let's learn more. Take a listen
31:05
Speaker 1: to our cut fifteen voice. Yes I did, Yes, I did.
31:15
Speaker 1: And if it was three days the hill for you
31:18
Speaker 1: or for them, I know what it was. For him.
31:21
Speaker 1: It was living hill for you made the main center
31:25
Speaker 1: and right believe that when they woke up it was
31:29
Speaker 1: be on the street of Manasota. I didn't go to
31:35
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, former medical examiner and author, What was
31:39
Speaker 1: the mode of death, doctor Dupree? And wasn't Nancy? Apparently
31:43
Speaker 1: the person was injected with matthan vetamine, which could be lethal.
31:47
Speaker 1: They were reportedly also strangled, which can obviously be lethal.
31:51
Speaker 1: Um so, really without an examination of the body, it
31:53
Speaker 1: would be difficult to tell. To Angela Ericson, the mother
31:58
Speaker 1: of John's three children, Justice, Jacob, and Genesis, what did
32:04
Speaker 1: you learn about John's murder? I've learned that he was
32:12
Speaker 1: tied up and injected with mess and phetamines. And first
32:18
Speaker 1: he was hit over the head with a wine bottle
32:20
Speaker 1: that apparently he had gotten for him and Amanda have
32:23
Speaker 1: a romantic dinner and Valentine's Day with and then through
32:27
Speaker 1: you know, a course of one to three days. I'm
32:30
Speaker 1: not really sure, they tortured him and told him that
32:35
Speaker 1: the reason they were doing this was because he was
32:36
Speaker 1: a criminal informant. And then I learned that they put
32:42
Speaker 1: a garbage bag over his head and strangled him to death.
32:47
Speaker 1: Take to listen to our friend Josh crap at w
32:49
Speaker 1: d TV. Shandre said her father and sister began the
32:53
Speaker 1: attack on McGuire, and that her father threatened her children
32:56
Speaker 1: if she didn't help bounce. She described how McGuire was
32:59
Speaker 1: hit in a head with a bottle of wine, tied
33:02
Speaker 1: up and injected with meth amphetamine, and strangled. Chantrey pleaded
33:06
Speaker 1: guilty to second degree murder, faces up to forty years
33:09
Speaker 1: in prison and also our cut number three. Katie Johnson
33:13
Speaker 1: WCCO goes on. McLure told the investigators his daughter, Amanda
33:17
Speaker 1: McClure was in a relationship with McGuire. Larry calls Amanda
33:21
Speaker 1: the ringleader of the murder. Now Larry, Amanda, and Anna
33:24
Speaker 1: Shoudery are all facing one counter first degree murder for
33:27
Speaker 1: McGuire's death. So let me understand how this whole thing
33:32
Speaker 1: played out, Samantha Perry. What happened between those one and
33:36
Speaker 1: three days that John McGuire was tortured till he died?
33:42
Speaker 1: They did. Apparently he was hit on the head with
33:45
Speaker 1: a blond bottle and injected with meth amphetamine and then
33:51
Speaker 1: taught up and then they played out what they called
33:57
Speaker 1: the trust game, which was basically, you know, having enough
34:04
Speaker 1: trust in each other to allow them to be tied up.
34:08
Speaker 1: But basically McGuire was tortured for three days and the
34:14
Speaker 1: judge in one of the hearings actually described it as
34:17
Speaker 1: three days of hell and Samantha Perry was the whole
34:21
Speaker 1: torture and murder debacle, but because a fear John McGuire
34:26
Speaker 1: would rap them out for incest. I'm not sure if
34:29
Speaker 1: it was a fear of telling about the incest or
34:34
Speaker 1: if it was more of a jealousy on the part
34:39
Speaker 1: of Larry McClure and Amanda McClures did buy lent appen
34:44
Speaker 1: actually took part in it, yes, and Larry McClure painted
34:48
Speaker 1: his daughters as the ringleaders. Once this all of this
34:53
Speaker 1: came out, basically all of them threw each each other
34:59
Speaker 1: under the bus. You know, Larry blamed his daughters, the
35:02
Speaker 1: daughters blamed their father and said this kind of became
35:06
Speaker 1: a blamed game after it came to like, I want
35:08
Speaker 1: you to hear John Thomas McGuire's mother, Karen Smith, for
35:15
Speaker 1: you to marry your old daughter. That's low dame loved
35:20
Speaker 1: on his dirt. But I don't want to live to
35:22
Speaker 1: see you or one of your kid's dad before I leave.
35:25
Speaker 1: Deserve God's stone, And I hope you remember how Luke
35:30
Speaker 1: and how I talk, because if I headed my way,
35:33
Speaker 1: I'd have everyone in y'all right, no letter every day
35:36
Speaker 1: I killed your son, or at least year a mailed
35:39
Speaker 1: to me, so y'all won't for you to be comes.
35:41
Speaker 1: I don't thank y'all we even care. I don't think
35:45
Speaker 1: you have what you care about what you done to
35:47
Speaker 1: me and my right places, right comes r my daughters,
35:54
Speaker 1: sounds sound comes. You're hearing Karen Smith chewing out the
36:02
Speaker 1: defendant in this case, Larry Paul McClure, who murdered her son,
36:07
Speaker 1: and in the end you hear him speaking unintelligibly, trying
36:11
Speaker 1: to blame his daughters for the murder. All three took part,
36:15
Speaker 1: and all three are behind bars, all over an incestuous
36:21
Speaker 1: relationship that ended in an illegal marriage between father and daughter.
36:28
Speaker 1: And there in the backyard lay John McGuire Nancy Grace
36:35
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,