Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Lance Lynn reacts to Nolan Arenado Trade! + Chaim's public perception!

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Lance Lynn reacts to Nolan Arenado Trade! + Chaim's public perception! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hell, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with lanceln and Kyle Gibson. Before we get started,
• 0:16
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• 0:37
  Speaker 2: All right, gentlemen.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Normally, Jim, normally you give him a good show and
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: then you ask him.
• 0:44
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• 0:49
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• 0:51
  Speaker 1: This is Jim, this is episode. This is episode twenty
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: seven for us. We've already proof of performance is already
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: out there. They just didn't know to hit the subscribe button.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So really, what I'm doing is I'm helping them with
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: something they wanted to do them.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Jim, you we get it. We get it, We get it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Your numbers station we.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Got It's gonna be a long show. It's gonna be
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a long twenty five minutes. All right, Uh, gentlemen, we
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: had an emergency additional Cardinal Territory Lance refused to come
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: on because he was disgusted by the deal. By the way,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Matt Holliday, it's his birthday today, he's not with us.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: They had discussed on birthday. Happy birthday, we discussed on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: your show. If you're an adult and that's your birthday,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you show up for work anyway. But anyway, on this
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: emergency edition, Lance, we discussed the uh the trade that
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you know, the Cards finally dealt Nolan Aronado goes to
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks in exchange for right hander Jack Martinez, an
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: eighth ron pick at Arizona State, yet to pitch a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: professional game, and of course the Cardinals will pick up
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: thirty one million of the forty two million owned to
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: ode to Aeronauto, Lance, you were not on that that
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: emergency episode. Please give us your thoughts.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I thought what we were we were on text saying hey,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: let's get on air.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I was like, I've got carpool at three, So that's
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: my that's my no FI zone. But I think my
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: original response was I absolutely effing hate it. I think
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: was what I might have sent to the group. And
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: here's why. I hate the amount of money that was
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: given up for one prospect that you know was drafted
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: in the eighth round last year. It's a big what
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: if Arizona got Nolan Arnado for eleven million.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Dollars over the next two years. I just.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: It was that was what I hated. I think that
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: on there and it's like, hey, we're giving up a
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: prospect that we haven't really seen pitch yet for one
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: air and only painting what six and five million dollars.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: But here's what you know when you kind of relook
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: at everything that's gone on, the handcuffs that were put
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: on him and what he's had to deal with trade
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: wise this year because of the no trades, and I
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: think that our the list for each guy was so
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: small that he was kind of stuck. But the amount
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: of money given out on all the trades.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Have kind of hurt me.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: With the lack of let's call it, high end prospects
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: coming back, I think everybody's been kind of listed as
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: a maybe a ceiling as a number three starter, kind
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: of fits in as a depth role and or a
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: mid relever. So I guess the idea was, hey, let's
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: just see how many arms we can get. Hopefully one
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: of them or two of them hits has kind of been.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: The gist of it. But you know who knows the list.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: No one knows each guy's list on how short it was,
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: so he's kind of stuck.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So you kind of just go from there. But you're
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: we owned that a lot.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: Of money for a lot of guys that are kind
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: of fitting the old back into the rotation mid mid
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: releiver roles.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: So it's been quite a bit interesting offseason.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Kyle fairpoint. I mean the young arms that that Hein
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Bloom has put together, some of you know, been top
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: ten prospects. No one knows how any of these guys
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: will pan out. Could be someone not even on the
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: radar turns out to be the best major league pitcher
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of the bunch. But to Lance's point, the Cards have
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: given out more than fifty six million dollars to clear
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: a path so that they can do this, you know
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: reset that they talk about at least fifty six million
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: dollars to other teams to have three players not be Cardinals.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: There is some risk involved.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: But tell me how you think this will all shake out,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: and do you think that it's going to end up
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: being a positive for the Cardinals.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the two interesting point it's there to
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: me that lance makes you know, I think one is
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: if you look at Nolan aren otter of the next
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: two years and and the cost, I think his defense
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: alone pays for that contract. If he doesn't get any
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: better offensive, but his defensive war is going to cover that.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I just think he's he's going to stay a good defender.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: He's going to bring a lot to that team, and
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: that's going to be really good for the Diamondbacks. The
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: other side that I didn't really think too much about
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: was the small list of teams that him had to
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: work with. Probably with all of those guys, and they
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: might have all been different teams obviously. Maybe Wilson and
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Sonny were both good with Boston obviously, but you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Nolan might have had a smaller list, and when you're
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: dealing with a small list, you you kind of have
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: to take a chance. Now, there's two sides of this
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Jack Martinez coin that we can look at. When you
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: can look at college numbers, which I don't look at
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: too much. The strikeouts are one thing, becase as you
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: can see a swing and miss. But a buddy of
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: mine from Missouri, Nick Tepish, was a good college pitcher
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: by No. Means did he have a sub two era
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: and dominate. But the guy had a really good big
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: league career because he knew how to pitch, and he
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: had stuff that played better against wood bats than in
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: against metal bats. So I think that's why I asked
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: the other day to reserve judgment on Jack Martinez until
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: we give him a chance to pitch and let's see
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: what he has, and you know, let's see what side
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: of the coin we get, because I think there's there's
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: definitely some intrigue here with a young guy that has
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: swinging this stuff, and you know, if you can add
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: a little bit of pitch ability, if he doesn't have
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: it right, we don't really know. If you can add
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: some of that, you might end up with a guy
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: that that can be pretty good.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: So as it sits right now, gentlemen, then I'll go
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to you Lambs on this one. The Cardinals have stockpiled
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: controllable young arms with good upside, and Hein Bloom has said, look,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: we're still looking to make deals. There's things they'd like
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to add, maybe you know, a veteran bat, which I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: know you guys would would like to see. But in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: terms of where the Cardinals are in terms of the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: reset right now, Lance, how do you see it a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: young team, as him puts it, that's hungry that they
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: think will will compete or do you think there's still
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: a ton of work to do on the reset?
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: I think you're around the edges right now of if
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Donnie Mason Burley, uh, you know, if Gorman kind of
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: gets back to being that thirty home run guy, they
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: have a chance to surprise a lot of teams. That's
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: that's they have very talented players. The problem is is
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: they have not all sustained a level of success throughout
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: a whole major league season. But by doing what you've
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: done with moving the guys that they have, they've created
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: spots for those at bats to happen to hopefully where
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: somebody takes over and that part of a reset that
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: I think that's why when they use the word reset,
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: it's like, Hey, who's going to take over and who's
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: going to be a guy every day and how are
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: we going to you know, muster up a lineup that
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: can compete every day. I think they have the arms
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: to guys that can do multiple different things to you know,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: you know, take innings away from maybe different bullpen arms.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: They're gonna have to kind of do maybe more six
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: seven man rotation throughout the year, maybe even dig deeper
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: to get eight guys, but with a different style of
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: arms they've accumulated, the different stuff they've accumulated, it gives
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: Dusty and Ali a chance to deploy these guys in
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: different roles, not only to save their innings because a
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: lot of them are going to be on Hey we've
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: never really done one hundred and sixty plus innings, but
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: also where it doesn't get them over exposed to get
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: injuries too. So they've got the ability to kind of
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: mix and match and do the things they want to,
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: which we've seen teams do that over the course of seasons,
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: and it's a pain in the ass for all offenses
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: to deal with when you have different arms coming at
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: you at different times in different ways. So they're trying
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: to do think outside the box. You know, Heim was
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: in Tampa. Tampa's been good at figuring out, hey, we've
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: got swinging miss stuff from maybe a weird arm angle
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: or a different you know, it looks different in the box,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: and how can we put all these pieces together. So
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: they've got a lot of pieces, how are they going
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: to make them work, and then how are these guys
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: going to succeed at the big league level when they
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: get an extended period of time. So it's all going
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: to be up in the air.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: But they have the.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Talent to surprise people. It's just putting the people in
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: the right places at the right time to succeed and
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: letting them grow a little bit too as they go
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: along this season.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Kyle, A reset, I would assume, or a rebuild, is
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: always a work in progress until you decide that this
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: is where we need to be. If I were an
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: art major, I think they might refer to I'm having
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: now a blank canvas able to maneuver some things, added
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: some young arms, you know, to the minor league, syste
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: them and hopefully some prospects. How do you see the
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: reset going at this point.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Jim, When you talk about construction and taking it down
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: to the studs and then you shift to art, you
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: just want to by far my worst college class and
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: art appreciation, and you lost me at art. Okay, let's know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: let's lay stay away from this blank canvas here. We're
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: going down to the studs, is what Lance is saying.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's quite like that. But I think
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: that on this blank canvas, I said, so, I said, if.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Donnie, if Donnie and Nude are gone, it's studs. You're
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: done Studs.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: That's where we're still and Jojoe, if JoJo's gone to
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: that's the that's the studs.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: We're not there yet, Okay.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: I think that I am in the spot where I
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: want to bring up a guy that Lance talked about,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: either you know when we were doing our or are
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: serving it up podcasts, Isaiah kinnor Falleffa really makes sense
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: right now for the Saint Louis Cardinals. I think he
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: adds another veteran. We talk about like Donnie not being
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: a veteran, or we think about like needed to add
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: a veteran like Donnie can't do that. Donnie is one
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: of those guys, right, So, but I think Kiner adds
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: a different level of experience in the playoffs in different organizations.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: I think he's a guy that I would absolutely bring
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: in at this point. He's a right handed bat, whereas
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: you're gonna have Gorman, Donnie Weatherholt, Burlison, a lot of
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: lefties on the infield, So you bring in Kinner. He
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: can play any position. On the field, and he's a
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: right handed bat. And if you don't do that, then
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I would be in favor of adding to your blank
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: canvas Luken Baker and giving him the right handed at
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: bat at first base and or d h when you
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: need it. And if you don't do that, then you
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: go to a buddy of mine, Rhese Hoskins, and you
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: bring him to be that right handed bat on the line.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think there's a couple of guys that
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: we can that we can add here, that you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: add to the team on and off the field, but
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: you know, don't necessarily add to add to the payroll
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: and and you know, get them in a spot where
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I guess maybe they aren't comfortable. But man, I think,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: like you said, with this blank canvas, I think you
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: can you can do a lot to it and set
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: your team up here for years to come with some
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: culture and some some guidance from some guys.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: All right, Just for the record, you brought up blank
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: canvas again after killing that analogy and then added the
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: word culture.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Your words, your words.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you say, are I lose it? When I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: lost it? I heard half of what you said when
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: you said it kind of took me back to college
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and the C minus that I had to talk my
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: way into.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's stay away.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: From Mark, who gets a C minus in that art
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: class it was your supposed to get.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: It's an easy.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: A who takes I will pay for the class if
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: you go to the if you go to the University
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Missouri and take that art appreciation class, I will pay
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: for it. And if you get, well, you're probably I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: can't say.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: We're class easy Lance.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Let's jump ahead because he jumped ahead with his whole
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: blank canvas thing. If you if you were thinking of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Right now, what piece let's go baby.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: One piece at the Cardinals end. And I agree with Kyle.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I'd like a right handed bat, veteran presence, kind of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: like with standing in the bullpen, a guy that's been
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to the postseason, done on a big stage.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: What do you see?
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: So I like Kyer because of what he can do
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: in multiple positions. And the next name that pops in
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: my head is Key k hernandez Uh. He's a guy
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: who's very similar to Kiner with his experience and this
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: and that, but he also plays every position possible on
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: the feet field. I think that when you're looking at
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: kind of the roster construction. If JJ breaks camp, then
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Donnie's probably on left because JJ's best positions at second base.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: So we need a right handed hitting guy that can
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: maybe play center field.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Uh what that? What's that look like?
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Can you also play some second when we have you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: a tough lefty on the mound, and then hey, maybe
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: it's Kinder and a right handed hitting outfit or Kei
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: K and a right hitted hitting Outfitlder. So you're kind
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: of mixing a match in because I think that when
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: you're looking at as the season goes on, I think
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Herrera is going to get some more d H time
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: at times just to save his legs and all that.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: But it also makes their lineup a little bit better
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: against lefties when you can use that backup catcher in
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: that in that role so he can get some DH
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: swings and keep his bat in the lineup. And or
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: you know a guy that can play first base and
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: hit two, like Key K can play first, kind of
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: can play first. You got guys that are in that mold,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: but they also bring a of professionalism every day and
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: they can play every position and they're pretty much you're
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: pretty much getting a Donnie but from the right handed side.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: And when you have both of those guys on your roster,
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: it makes if next to every day, you've got two
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: spots in your lineup field, and then how am I
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: gonna fill around it? Because Gorman is probably gonna need
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: some days off against tough left he's at third, so
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: maybe that guy puts in there. So I think they
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: need two right handed bats, to be honest with you,
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: with the way that they're kind of lefty heavy with
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: new and newt Donnie, JJ, Burley Gorman right, So that's
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: your left handed heavy bat. Three or two of them
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: are every days in my opinion, So or three of
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: them are every days if you have JJ in the lineup,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: and then how are we going to finagle a way
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: to get right handed at bats and kind of give
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: those guys days as the season goes on too all
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: the way around, and I think that there's there's free
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: agents that are available and it's gonna be the three
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: to three to five to eight million dollar range, and
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: it's gonna be okay because those guys are going to
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: teach guys day in and day out, and they're gonna
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: be good for the JJ weatherholds of the world to
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: be like, hey, I've done this and this and this,
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: and it just takes the pressure off.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Of him happening to be a All Star right on
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the gate.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: You know the thing about ki k is you look
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: all right, he's a two forty hitter in the regular season,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: maybe a little higher, maybe a little lower, and then
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he has lights out in the postseason. Every year postseason,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: he's there. Every year he comes to with big hits
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: or big players.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: I like that trade bait too. You people have to
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: realize if you're doing this reset and you got some
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: money to kind of do some things on your team
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: right now, to compete a little bit, give the young
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: guys the ability to play meaningful games and have people
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: around him to help them win meaningful games. That's going
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: to help them in the future, and it's going to
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: help them now. But when it comes to trade deadline
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: and hey, Gorman's doing what he's supposed to do, JJ's
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: taking over a second.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: He's good, Hey man, we appreciate you, but we're.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Gonna go get We're gonna go get a couple more
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: prospects for you. We're gonna let the kids take it
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: from here and then see where that takes us down
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: the line, and then you you know, you could be
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: in a good spot where you just keep adding, because
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: as we've seen, there's the ability to get pieces by
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: having big league players. So hey, let's bring a few
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: that have done things in the playoffs. Look at Kiner
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: in the playoffs last year. Look at k in the
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: playoffs forever. Those guys are our spots where they want
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: to play, and you got the ability to play them,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: you know, four out of seven and then in the
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: playoffs or becomes a postseason time trade deadline, teams say
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: oh cool, I'm going to need a guy that can
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: play any position at any time, and hey, I only
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: got to pay this guy two and a half the
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: rest of the year. Here's a you know, here's a
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: top you know, top twenty five, top twenty prospect, and
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: that's how you make your organization even deeper. And then
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: you're looking at, hey, it only costs me two and
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: a half as the year went on because I paid
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: them at the deadline.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: So as you write your pottery wheel creating this work
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and maybe adding the glazes to the Cardinals' final product,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're putting it in terms of art
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and sculpture. We don't know what's gonna happen with with
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Brendan Donovan. And you know, there's there's a lot of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: value in trading him when pieces are coming off the board.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: There may be value in trading him before the deadline.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Certainly there's a lot of value into holding on to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Brendan Donovan. That's unthinkable, but it could be a possibility.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Who knows what what lies ahead? What do you think
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is gonna happen with UH? With Brendan Donovan?
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Kyle, Now, Jim, you're talking my language all right? With
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: the art that I took in high school with ceramics,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: mister Wyland, big shout out to mister Rona Greenfield Central, UH.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Ceramics was my jam. If I could have Spauwn Potter
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: on the Potter Wheel at Missouri, I would have done
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: that all three years and it would have been great.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: My Potter classes for another podcast, though, are right? So
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: is there value in holding Brendan Donovan? Yeah, he's an
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: all star utility player, utility gold glove like a stud. Right,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: of course there's value and I think there's value to
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: building your team around him. It's gonna be really interesting
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: as we see what major League Baseball and what these
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: teams do as they shift. Clearly there's teams making a
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: little bit of a shift from swinging miss a little
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: bit of a shift from Homer heavy swinging miss heavy
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: to some contact. And I think Donnie's just a guy
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: that does that really well. Burley is a guy that
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: does it really well. Kiner is a guy that does
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: that really well. So yeah, Mason Wynn does that really well.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Like I think these are the guys that could be
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: really interesting to be on the forefront of that wave
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: and really not loading up, but putting guys around. Herrera
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: when the thump, assuming whetherhole has some thumb, you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: as you then add guys like in the in the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: you know, the coming years, you have some thump. Yeah,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I've never been on board with trading
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Brendan Donovan, and I say never until maybe a really
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: good trade package comes up. But man, uh, I just
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: think he's a guy that you figure out how to
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: keep here. And uh, you just decide that he's a
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: guy and Mason or whoever else are who you're gonna
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: build it.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So Lance, we know that, uh that Donovan great in
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the clubhouse. Right, No one works harder than he does,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: plays a lot of places, hits, hits, and then he hits.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: So suddenly lance Lynn is heind bloom? What are you
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: doing with Brendan Donovan? Because if you're resetting, if you're
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: talking about the canvas, he can bring a lot in return.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: What do you do?
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean obviously you're to see what that return
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: would be and see how it fits with what you have.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Right there required a bunch of pitching so far they
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: have the middle of the infields kind of looks like
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: it might be next four years locked in in this
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: in this situation. So if you if you view him
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: as a hey, this might be our left fielder this
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: year on our team, but we can get this piece,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: that piece, uh to kind of you know, maybe it's
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: a right handed hitting center fielder that you know, can
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: with some power and something and maybe a top of
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: the rotation projection arm. Now we're talking about, Hey, those
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: are things we don't have and we have not acquired yet.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: So it gets intriguing when you look at it that way.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: The question that like Kyle's brought up and that we're
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: saying is if you're in a reset who's your guy
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: that's going to help push this towards the winning culture
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: and the winning organization after this year. And I think
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: Donnie is one of those people, especially with I think
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: the reset kind of pushes it into Hey, let's see
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: what twenty twenty seven looks like. And as of right now,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: Donnie is under team control for twenty twenty seven, So
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: I think that looks like a a kind of a Hey,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: that's our our that's our our reset builder who are
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: building off of in the reset. But if you're saying, hey,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty seven, we're kind of like, hey, we're gonna
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: see where we're at. Maybe maybe you, maybe you look
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: around and say, all right, if I can get a
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: guy that can be a frontline starter and give me
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: an everyday right handed hitting center fielder or or something
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: in that ballpark, and then maybe somebody that can project
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: as a back end reliever for one guy that's just
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: gonna play left field for me for the next two years,
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: then I'm thinking about it. But as a human being
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: and as a teammate of his and all that I
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: build around you. But you know, where's your team gonna be?
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: And is it?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: Are you going to waste two good years of him rebuilding,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: or can you get these guys for five six years
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: when you're actually gonna like for Donnie and his personal
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: like for him personally, I hope he gets traded to
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: a team that can actually help him win right now
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: because he's in the middle of his prime career.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: But that being said, as a as a teammate, it
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: is I think you should. You could build around him,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and you can put a great team around him too.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: So that's the beauty of what you have with him
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: is Okay, if you're not going to compete in the
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: next few years, get as much as you can for
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: him and see and see where you're gonna where you're
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: gonna be going down down in the future.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Tough decision for heim Bloom. And this is the last
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: topic for you, gentlemen. You look at what him has
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: done so far as president of Baseball OPS. I think
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: he's been transparent. He's done a lot of different media.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: He jumps on zooms and tries to explain and answer
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: questions about the moves that have been made. I also
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: think that he's done a good job in being empathetic
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: with fans that want to win sooner than later, because
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that's what fans want. So my question is on the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: PR front, which is important, and I'll go to you
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: on this one, Kyle. On the PR front, which is
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: important because the Cardinals want to bring back some fans
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: understanding that this is a rebuild or reset. How has
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: him done on the PR from which, to me is
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: an important category.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Him seems like a pretty relational person. I only had
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: a few conversations with him, but I don't think he's
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: going to have any issue connecting with the media, connect
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: with the fans, and being as transparent as possible in
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: his position. You know, I think there's some there's some
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: misconceptions here from the fans. That is helpful to the
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: front office to tell everybody what they're doing. It's not.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: I think we've seen that with some of these trades.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's helpful when you have to tell
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: people what you're doing. So I think you have to
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: keep some cards up your sleeves and you have to keep,
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: you know, some things to yourselves. But I think him's
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: done well. I think, and we're sitting here talking about
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: are they going to be competitive in twenty seven? If
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: they are not, and if the goal is not to
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: be competitive in twenty seven, or you don't think you
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: can be, then yes, you trade Donovan and you move on.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: If that's the case, I think the year twenty eight
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: and twenty nine become extremely important to Cardinals fans and
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Hein Bloom's career in their eyes right, because it would
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: be twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, twenty six and
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: twenty seven of missing the playoffs. And I think we've
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: already seen it in Baltimore a little bit, where you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the Orioles did this rebuild. We won one hundred games
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: in twenty three, and I think it got the fans back.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And then now because the Orioles have kind of stalled
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: the last two years and not taken that step, there's
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit of like, hey, do we need fron
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: office change already? Well, the guy that did the rebuild
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: is who got you here, you're already calling for him.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: So that's kind of how baseball works a little bit.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I think if you're going to be willing to take
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: it down and reset a little bit, it's got to
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: happen a little bit fast. So I hope for these guys'
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: sake that twenty six and twenty seven are competitive seasons
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: and they're not going in twenty eight, twenty nine. But
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I think time will tell on how he responds to
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: some of that if it happens. But overall, I think
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: he's done a good job, and like I said in
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: the last podcast, is let's give him a chance. Let's
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: let this play out a little bit before it's just
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: you know, a judgement zone.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: It's a great point. Transparency can be your enemy if
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: you're looking to make deals, because no one wants to
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: show their cards when you're playing a game of poker,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: which is what trades and deals are all about. But Lance,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I think that him has done a really good job
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: being the face of all this and trying to explain
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it to the fan base.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that?
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you're looking at the way he's explained
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: what they're what they've been.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: The idea was the whole off season.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: He's he's done it in a sense, is it you
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: know you consider here contique how he's done it. He's
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: done what he's set out to do with trading the
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: guys away that he've traded away. Now it's going to
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: be kind of like you had to deal with Boston, right,
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: he went there and he had to trade away Mookie
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Bets and and do all this, and I'll kind of
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: rebuild kind of their farm system after it got taken
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: away when they were when they were going for it
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: and doing all that. I think with him, it's going
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: to be all right. This is his kind of his
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: year of Okay, let's acquire, let's do all that, and
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: then next year, during this season, he's going to start
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: being able to kind of put together a playing roster
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: on the field with what he's acquired, what he's able
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: to do in free agency after all this money's gone
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: after this year, because I think they're still seeing all
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: the money that they've given away, it's none of that's.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Going back to the major league roster.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: I think to make them competitive this year, their eyes
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: are on twenty seven, is my that's my thought process.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Nobody's coming out and set it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: It's but you got to see what you have this
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: year with the guys that you are going to get
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: a play to see what you're building around in twenty seven.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's the thing.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: And then it goes from there is Okay, how does
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: he build in twenty seven to compete because that's going
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: to be like, all right, if that team doesn't compete
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: after what he's done in free agency and the guys
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: that he's brought in via trade and none of those
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: guys have hit and stuff like that, that's when we're
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: going to be able to say, all right, well, that
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: didn't work in the short term, because if you want
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: to look at it, the way I look at it
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: is this is his first year doing all this there,
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: but all last year he was taking over them. He
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: took over the minor leagues and everything all year long.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: So we're looking at year year two already in the
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: minor leagues, year one at the big league level. So
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: those minor league guys in twenty seven that he's been
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: overseeing the last year, it's better be ready to go
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: in twenty seven because that's year three of what he's
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: been doing of trying to create a place down there
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: where these guys are getting better and ready to help
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: at the big league level and what he's got going on.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: So I think that's when we're going to see kind
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: of like, hey, you know, what his plan is, what
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: he's able to acquire and are they able to be
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: big leaguers And he was able to put together a
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: good big league roster because you kind of in Boston,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: he kind of they didn't love the way that it
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: shook out at the end. Now you look at Boston,
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: now they've got a bunch of talent, right, but they
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: also when he was there, they weren't putting the right
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: pieces together to win games in a bigger market. So
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: that's going to be where I kind of start looking
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: moving forward.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Birthday, Matt, Holiday, you weren't here today. We hope you
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: had a great holiday. And also, if you're watching this
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and you liked it, go ahead and hit that subscribe
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: button because we're marching toward seven thousand subs. There's the graphic,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and that's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Hopefully that episode won't suck.