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The Steelers Head Coaching Tree (Part 2) · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another offensive are you offended, Tim, by this episode yet?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yes.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm your I'm your co-host, Steve Werton.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joined by Tim Hammond.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to talk about the offensive Steeler coordinator that went on behind head coaches.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's quite a few of them, and um most of them ended up coaching for either the uh Titans or Bills or Cardinals for some reason.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Those teams just love to hire Steeler coordinators, but we'll go over all of them.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: As usual, this is kind of like the uh different the other side of the coin to our other episode about the defensive coordinators.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like we said in that episode, knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom, and that's by Aristotle.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And these offensive guys definitely knew what to do with an offense, and then later, as a head coach, especially one of them really, two of them really, really figured them out.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would say that the offensive guys did a little better than the defensive guys did with their head coaching opportunities.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um, some of these guys figured it out, they figured it out well, and they had a lot of success.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, here's our offensive coaches.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So moving from the defense, defense, we're gonna move the offense.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody loves the offense, right, Tim?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not in Pittsburgh.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a bunch of Mullarkey because that's our next coordinator, is Mike Mullarkey.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all about the dad jokes today.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Mike Mullarkey, um, when he was a Steelers tight end coach from 96 to 2000.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was promoted to tight ends coach after to to offensive coordinator after Kevin Gilbride left.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yes.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um correct.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because they hired Ray Lewis, Ray Sherman, Ray Lewis, Ray Sherman over Mike Mallarkey in '98 because they wanted to make Cordell happy.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um they were like, Mullarkey has no experience coaching quarterbacks.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cower will hire the team's first quarterback coach since Chuck Null fired Babe Perilli after the 1973 season.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they literally went from 1973 to 19, what is it, 96 without a uh head coach, head uh without a quarterback's coach.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So he was the Steelers offensive coordinator from 2001 to 2003.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was in charge of two very dynamic offenses, wasn't he?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like the the Tommy Gun and the Cordell resurgent year, and two very different offenses, like the Cordell, we're gonna run the ball all the time, and then the Tommy gun, we're gonna throw the ball all the time.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um his best work was probably with Cordell, resurrecting Cordell's career for that one season.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then when Bettis started to fade and Zary Zerway couldn't carry the load, his offense kind of suffered.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um stats, um, they were they they kind of were like middling the for his first 2001, 2002, like seventh and eighth in points scored.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2003 they drop off.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's that season, like that was kind of a lost season.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a six-win season or a five-win season?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think it was a six-win season.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Six-win season, yeah, because that's the season they get to draft Ben in the offseason.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So but they really fell off at Clifton in 2003.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So Tommy Maddox kind of gets exposed for just being a good backup and um they go from fewest turnovers, they turned the ball over a lot in 2000.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even in 2002, they had a lot of turnovers.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Tommy Maddox was a little bit of an interception.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um 2003, yeah, 18 touchdowns and 17 interceptions for Tommy Maddox.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Maddox uh won the had 20 touchdowns and 16 interceptions, so he was about the same.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: He gets you get you about 16 interceptions a season there, which is not good.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um a lot of yards though.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cordell, for his part in 2001, had 14 touchdowns and 11 interceptions in 2001 and 3,000 yards passing.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um he also adds though 500 yards rushing.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So Cordell, he really really got the most out of Cordell.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um Bettis had uh his final last hurrah in 2001 with a thousand yards and four touchdowns in that 2001 season.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then Zaraway and Bettis kind of split in 2002.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: In 2003, Bettis only averages 3.3 yards a carry.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you kind of see like the decline, you know.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's more aging players and just not having the horses.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the receiving game, you know, Heinz Ward is always there having his thousand-yard seasons along with Plexico.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, 112 receptions in 2002 for Heinz Ward.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So wonder what would happen.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think if Malarkey would have had the coach Ben Rothelsberger?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: That would have been, I mean, that would have been interesting, but it also works out anyway for the guy that's gonna be later on your list.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, where he went, um, don't let his uh this Tom Donahue.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, don't let his calm demeanor fool you, Donahue said.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mike's a guy, you can't judge a book by his cover.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a they go on to tell a story about he was screaming and swearing at Richard Huntley because Huntley wasn't paying attention.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: What a shocker, Richard Huntley being an idiot.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't he the guy that started a fight with Oral Holmes?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Richard Huntley had a lot of uh interesting moments with the Steelers.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: None of them were very good.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, he fumbled a lot.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens to Mike Malarkey, Tim?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: He goes to the Buffalo Bills for 2004 and 2005, and he has a 9-7 and 5'11.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's overall, he's 14-18.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And really, what really kind of like killed his career in Buffalo was that that game in 2004 where he lost the game to Brian St.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Pierre.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I mean, Willie Parker, there's no shame in that.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like, because like the Steelers, that Steelers team was so good, like they just started like, oh, we'll start our backups.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, the backups were like James Harrison and Willie Parker, so that was kind of not maybe not fair.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but at the time it was it was like all the Bills had to do was win that last game.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Over the Steelers backup, and they put in Brian St.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Pierre.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: They they put in their third string quarterback.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they they you should have been able to beat Brian St.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Pierre.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he coached at Jacksonville for one forgettable year where he went 2 and 14.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's another bad ownership situation.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um boy, there's some more bad owners in the NFL than there are good ones, aren't there, Tim?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I guess there's some mediocre, like you know, these guys are just kind of around.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to think, like, Minnesota.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like uh law.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to determine if we have a good owner or a mediocre owner at this point.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for his part, Mike Mullarkey took his talents to Tennessee because that's where everybody went in 2015 that ever coached under Bill Cower in the 90s.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: From 2015 to 2017.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he actually went 20 and 21 at Tennessee.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, he he lost that playoff game to New England, but he did win a one a playoff, a wild card game against the Chiefs.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: They came back from a 21 to 3 deficit.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now that was Alex Smith, not Patrick Mahomes.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And his quarterback was Marcus Mariotas, who's like kind of not that great.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Dick LeBeau was his defensive coordinator that year.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it just and it the the coward era reunion was complete with that loss to New England in the playoffs.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: It really was a coward reunion.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't it?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Malarkey at the end, Malarkey wouldn't budge and now he's gone when he got fired.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: If he went down protecting his guys, refusing to make staff changes in order to remain a head coach of the Titans, that's Admiral.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is according to Joe Rex Road, and uh this is the USA Today article on it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um Titans fan base have been screaming for Malarkey and his staff to be gone.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: The this guy says, I'm not sure this was a smart move for the Titans either.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly a risk.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who did the Titans hire after him?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's was it Vrabel?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think they hired Vrabel after him.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it might have been, yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So more former Seor players.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um Titans and general manager John Robson had numerous conversations with team owner Amy Adams Strunk, who is Bud Adams' daughter.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Bud Adams was running the team by then.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: He had gone completely off the deep end.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Remember when Bud Adams flipped off the Buffalo fans?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of late.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was like really old and just like you would think you would get like a little bit of maturity and wisdom in your later years.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Bud Adams, proven him wrong.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't I don't know, like once again, like Tennessee's another one where like it seems like they make some good decisions, but then it's like I don't know.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, successful or not, I think he's another mixed bag guy.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that team in Buffalo definitely underachieved.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um the Titans didn't have much faith in him, but like I said, the ownership was a little that was Bud Adams and then his daughter.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think you're right.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Another mixed bag.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Not a bad coach, not a great coach.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: But unlike, like at least John Fox has like some Super Bowls on his resume.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Mike Mullarkey doesn't really have anything that's a good thing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, beat the beat Andy Reid and the Chiefs that one time.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But Mike Mullarkey was well, number one, he was a really good tight end on those late cut ball teams.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like he was a really underrated tight end.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then um when he was the offensive coordinator, like you said, after getting passed over a couple of times, he finally got the job.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Cordell just loved Mike Mullarkey, loved Mike Mullarky.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: So uh maybe you're right, maybe another like should have stuck to what he was good at kind of guy.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um last job Mike Mallarkey has had was in 2019, he was the tight ends coach.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2020, he retired.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of guys on this list retired now, Tim.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Geez.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or like doing like kind of like professor emeritus roles, you know.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like you said, that that life of a coordinator is like you you look at like a Wikipedia page, yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's a listing of 30 different cities.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, imagine what that does to your family over the years.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So next up on the list is another uh offensive coach guy, uh Chan Gailey, who I always liked.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I always liked Chan Gailey.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when did he coach with the Steelers?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: From 94 to 95, he was the receiver's coach, and from 96 to 97, he was the offensive coordinator.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, remember the long pass the Ernie Mills in the EFC championship game in the 95?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here you go.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: According to a uh Jerry Dulak article at the time, something told Chan Gailey, the Steelers receiver coach, that it was time to go deep.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: For most of this American football conference championship game, the Steelers had not done that against the Colts.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Their longest pass completion in the first half was nine yards.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: The longest in the second half had been 14.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: The Colts were protecting the deep pass as though were the beach and Normandy.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Woo! Nice.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I he takes credit for calling that play in the paper.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nice way to throw poor Ron or Ron Earhart, who was like old as dirt at that point.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ron Earhart actually leaves for the Jets and is one of the scapegoats for Super Bowl 30.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, Cheney Gailey was really calling all the plays, not Ron Earhart.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was more of like a fan thing than like a newspaper thing.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember do you remember people say I remember?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, I definitely remember that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and I and I I don't I've always wondered how much truth there is to that because number one, it was interesting that Earhart left.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was like Cower couldn't wait to make Gailey the offensive coordinator, it felt like.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like Ron Earhart was just like, okay, I know I'm I know Can's really the guy.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then number two was there there's there's audio.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So so the Super Bowl 30, Cower makes that really gutsy call to do the surprise onsite kick, and they have him mic'd up.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know who he's talking to in the headset when he's gonna make that call?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Tan Gailey.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's Tan Gailey.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's telling the receivers coach that he's he's gonna do an onside kick.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it it felt like that's why I think it felt like to the fans that Tan Gailey was kind of like Bill Cower's like right-hand man.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and so so yeah, I don't think that that was just made up, is all I'm saying.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there was some truth to that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ron Earhart, I think, leaves and goes to the Jets.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean the Jets had that great offense for all those years.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, with his old quarterback, Neil O'Donnell.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um offensive stats.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Earhart years slash Gailey years.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: 94, their first in the AFC Central as record.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're kind of 16th in the NFL.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Neil O'Donnell.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I will say this, Neil O'Donnell was always very careful with the football, except for when he wasn't.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 14 touchdowns and four interceptions.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Barry Foster only had 851 yards and five touchdowns.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um 95.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they were let's see uh fifth, yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I don't know.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I guess, you know, Neil O'Donnell has 17 touchdowns, seven interceptions, which is marginally better.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Eric Pegram only has 813 yards.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, they did not have Bettis at this point, and they they didn't have Barry Foster that 95 season, so they kind of had to change their Ernie Mills led the team in catches with 39, which is like even back in 95, that's like wasn't like Chris Carter and them like catching 80 passes a year.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so 96.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see, the offense is still 11th in the NFL.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Fettis comes and he gets 1,500 yards on his first season, 11 touchdowns.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yancy Thinkben with 62 receptions, Tim.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Woo! We're getting there.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: 97, um, still seventh in the NFL.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Cordell has 21 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably Cordell's best season.
• 15:24
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: It really was.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and it wasn't like the stats were a little misleading there because he also rushed for 11 touchdowns.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So technically, he's responsible for what, 32?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Two.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 32 touchdowns.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was such a dynamic offense.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you didn't know like Cordell had that big 75-yard run to beat the Ravens.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: He had the only touchdown in the playoffs against New England that year was like a like a like this little bootleg that totally fooled the Patriots.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was like a like a 30 or 40-yard touchdown run.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like the stats could be a little misleading.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you actually watch highlights from that year, the the offense did so many dynamic things, and they really used Cordell to his strengths of being able to run, being very athletic, kind of misdirection kind of stuff.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a really good year for the offense until you know the Denver championship game at least.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: The championship games were kind of like uh Cordell's Super Bowl, like O'Donnell.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um I I always like Changely, so he leaves like everybody, like that was like that season, like everybody seemed to leave the Steelers, like in the late 90s.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So because you know, once again, Coward just hates Changely so much that he asks him, you know, about his opinion on the you know surprise on side.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I hate you, Changely.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to surprise on side.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in charge here, but what do you think?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Changely goes the coach for um Jerry Jones in Dallas after, I guess this was after uh what's his name?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Terry Switzer.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and definitely after uh the other guy.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kimmy Johnson, yeah, definitely after him.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so 1988 and 1999, they make the playoffs both years, 18 and 14, and he gets fired after a second playoff list because playoff loss because Jerry Jones is going to win playoff games, Tim.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Jerry Jones will not tolerate losing playoff games and mediocrity.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: When's the last playoff game they won?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, they won one on a Mike McCarthy, didn't they?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Finally.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I they have not been I know that they have not been back to a championship game since the year they beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can I know that definitively, so it hasn't been a good 30 years for them.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um they did they did lose the Arizona in a wild card game.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was a Jake Plummer game.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was, and the Cardinals had as a franchise had one postseason victory up to that point, you know, like 90-something years as a franchise.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um the Cowboys really were an aging team whose windows had closed.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually, like, didn't Ernie Mills go to the Cowboys too?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember Ernie Mills having a really great season with them.
• 18:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then he went to Buffalo, like all like it's kind of funny how like they all go to the same places.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think sometimes, like, you know, because Don Donaho, like he kind of knew people, so you know, you bring in people you know from 2010 to 2012.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: He has a record of 16 and 32.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: He does have Ryan Fitzmagic as his quarterback.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the reels really fell off in Buffalo.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: This once again, this is the end of Ralph Wilson's ownership, and I don't know who was really running the team.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now this is before it was the Terry Pagola, yeah, yeah, bought the team.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but to his credit, he goes to Georgia Tech and he he actually has a pretty successful career at Georgia Tech, 44 and 32.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what got him fired, much like anything that'll get you fired in college, you know what gets you fired in college, Tim?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not beating your rival.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was Georgia.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I mean, Georgia's pretty good.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like Georgia Tech's anything special.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry if you're a Georgia Tech fan, you know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Pitt isn't anything special either in this state, you know.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of in the same boat Pitt is in.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're an inner city school that has a state school that out dwarfs you, you know.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good comparison, yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the same thing Miami's in and Boston College.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're it's all the same, although Boston College is more just a pro town, but you know what I mean?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's all yeah, it's all the same schools.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they're all in the ACC, I guess.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, successful or not, um Jerry Jones is a little impulsive and actually kind of like Art Model reflects on this after he fires Changely, and he says, Yes, I made a coaching change with a coach in here that had only been here two years.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Chan Gailey, I regretted it.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was not the thing to do at a time.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably one of just a few things regarding the coaching thing that I would take back.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Jones said.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was a pretty quick tenure for him, and fair's not the word, but I don't know that it was fair to our team and our fans.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I've never heard Gary Jones like admit a mistake before.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's was he drunk?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sodium penthanol.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like he is another guy that has a mixed bag.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, outside of Buffalo, he sees as a fair amount of success.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where did he go after this?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: He did one year as an offensive coordinator with FitzMagic in 2020 and actually had a pretty good season that year with Brian Flores, but Brian Flores and the ownership didn't get along.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that didn't that end in a lawsuit?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that lawsuit's still outstanding, actually.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he seems another guy retired as of 2021, Tim.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, Tian Gale.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I guess everybody's getting a little older.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of makes you realize, like, boy, like if you were like it makes sense though, if you were like 30 or 40 and is up and coming assistant coach in the 90s, that would make you what 70 now?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Where will we be in 30 years, Tim?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Still doing this podcast.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Rich about whoever the Steelers offensive coordinator is.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um next up is uh probably one of the more successful guys.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're getting, as you can see, like I I rated them as successful.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: As we go along, the coaches get more successful.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ken Wisenhunt, Tim.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was good.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when did he coach the Steelers?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: 2001 to 2003.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was their tight ends coach.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Something about tight ends coaches on the Steelers.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Steelers.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: They seem to do well, right?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, two thousand four to two thousand six was their offensive coordinator, very successful offensive coordinator.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, he did have Ben Rothelsberger.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure anybody could be at least mediocre with Ben is your.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even um Randy Fickner had success with him.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um won Super Bowl 40, he was a big run first guy.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: He loved the run, and that actually probably was the best thing that happened to Ben Rothelsberger, because early on for a quarterback, if you have a good running game in the defense, you can kind of just like make like Trent Dilfer your way to a Super Bowl.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not that that's what Ben did, but you just have to make a few plays every you don't have to carry the team, and that was probably not that you know Ben didn't eventually carry the team, but at this point in his career he just was not refined enough as a quarterback to do that yet.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So 2005 Steelers stats, 24 points per game.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was ninth in the NFL.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ben has 17 touchdowns and nine interceptions.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Willie Parker, 1,200 rush yards, four TDs.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Drone Bettis, 368 in those nine touchdowns.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was this weird year where he kept getting one-yard touch yard runs.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh lots of trick plays, Tim.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um like this one.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: And they pitch it to the left in the middle.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the hand up on the reverse.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: to Antoine Randall L.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's gonna throw it down the field.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's a man open.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Touchdown pitchburg! Hines Ward.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: The Steelers score from 43 up on a gadget play that they worked on in practice on Friday.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Pitch left, Parker hands off to Randall L coming around on the reverse to his right.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: The former quarterback from Indiana gets a touchdown pass to Hines Ward.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was that was a great call.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they had run that play earlier in the season against Cleveland, and it had worked, and he knew when to call it again against Seattle, who was totally unprepared, but it was all the ref's fault.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because they had their backup safety in.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: He also ran a trick play um against the Bengals in the playoffs that year.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Remember he Oh, the throwback.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it threw back, and as soon as he did, Phil Sims was like, hey, it's a wide open.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the legendary Cedric Wilson was completely wide open, like 40 yards down the field.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, he was really good at at those kinds of plays as well.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you remember him being interviewed by Al Davis after the Super Bowl?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now that you mention it, I remember it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would have never remembered that.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this just because it's my own personal.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the Super Bowl parade because I figured I'd never see another Steelers' Super Bowls in my lifetime since it'd taken so long to win just one.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Who thought another year or two away would see another one?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the parade, and as Ken Wizenhunt rode by in his little car, it's like, don't Al stay here.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Al's terrible to work for.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm responsible for Ken Wizenhunt staying for an extra crappy nine and seven season.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Wizenhunt maybe here's an article uh about Ken Wizenhunt Raiders, though Al Davis interviewed several people for the job, but waited until the Steelers season ended to talk to Wizenhunt.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wizenhunt may be the man the Raiders want, they might not want him.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oakland job is notorious for being a graveyard for many coaches under the impatient Davis.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Intelligent people keep an open mind, said Eric Metz, Wizen Hunt's agent.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ken's certainly an intelligent guy, so I'm sure we're willing to listen to what they have to say.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, that would have been was it was that when they when did they draft Jamarcus Russell?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was right around this time, wasn't it?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope Ken Wizen would have had enough sense not to do that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know that he would have gotten a say in it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: 2007.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: That was so it would have been like he would if he would have taken that job, he would have been there for them to draft Jamarcus Russell, and then he would have been completely completely hosed.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So where did he go?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um he stays for another season, and he's kind of a minor figure in the Mike Tomlin Russ Grimm hiring Fiasco in 2007.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like Ken Wizard's smart enough to like, okay, I'm not gonna get this job.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So he goes and takes a job with the Cardinals.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he's hired in 2007 by the Cardinals, and um he's the head coach of the Cardinals from 2007 to 2012.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um he coached the Titans as everybody does at some point.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think you or me are gonna coach the Titans next from 2014 to 2015.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like what is that, like the fourth guy?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's yeah, everybody gets a chance.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's either that or Buffalo.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You either go to like Tennessee or Buffalo.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's your two options.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and like you said, like Mike Mike Rabel, who was their coach, was never an assistant for the Steelers, but he was a player for the Steelers, so there's always a Steelers connection.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um successful or not, um, he took the Cardinals to Super Bowl 43.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let me repeat that again.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: He took the Arizona Cardinals to Super Bowl 43.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I said that right, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't make a mistake.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds weird to say it now, doesn't it?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like the Cardinals were actually in a Super Bowl.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: The Browns have never been to a Super Bowl, but the Cardinals have been.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it tells you a lot, doesn't it?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he the mainly because he resurrected Kurt Warner's career.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like Kurt Warner had like two more seasons in him, and Ken Wesenhunt was able to squeeze that juice just a little bit out of that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably those two season per Kurt in the Hall of Fame.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if he doesn't have those last two years.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if Kurt Warner makes the Hall of Fame, Tim.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I think he I think he might have made it as like one of those like veteran committee like 40 years ago.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been like, yeah, yeah, but here's Kurt Warner in a wheelchair, you know.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um things fell apart after Warner retired.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: He never really could find a quarterback.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like he had Warner and Fitzgerald.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: He had Fitzgerald the whole time, and their defense was always kind of like mediocre to bad.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like he just never could like they signed Derek Anderson, and I think that kind of killed his coaching career.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Was Derek Anderson just was not very good.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I remember about Derek Anderson, didn't he wear like a size 18 shoe or something?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was like it was like something, some dumb thing.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was like he wasn't good at being a quarterback, he has really big feet.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, does that help you throw a ball?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I don't know.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um his overall record with the Cardinals was 45 and 51.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then he went to the Titans for two seasons in 2014, and he had a record of 3-20.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: He was fired seven games into the second season, so he was fired by the Titans and replaced by Mike Mullarkey, another Cowper assistant.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um Mike Millarkey actually had been the Titans coach under Wizen Hunt, so it's like all like the circle of life of Bill Cower assistants here.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um not the greatest, once again, not the I I do talk a lot about the ownership in this episode because I think ownership and coaching, and especially head coaching, maybe not assistant coaching, but definitely head coaching.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to have a good, like you said, circumstance.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bidwells are kind of and and just to complete the circle of life on Steeler assistance, um, Mike Villarkey is replaced by Bruce Arians.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So so the circle of life, yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: It really is just like what Steelers assistant coach can we hire next?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what is Wizenhunt doing now?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, once again, he seems to be out of football, another guy retired.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a brief stint in the USFL, XFL, whatever.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he did some consulting with uh Nick Saban in Alabama, and then he did some consulting at Penn State before that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um Ken Wizenhunt has enough money and he's another guy's late 60s, early 70s.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: He he's decided to go on fishing, so good for him.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when he was at Penn State because people wanted him to come back here at that point.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was like the I can't remember if that was the Matt Canada era era or the Randy Feetner era.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was around that time, and people were like, hey, he's right up there in State College, why don't we bring him back?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the the as you can tell, we're getting more I I would say he was very successful at Arizona.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Taking Arizona to a Super Bowl and being within like a Ben Rothelsberger drive at the end of the game, winning a Super Bowl in Arizona, that's pretty impressive.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I would agree.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um next up is another head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um that would be Bruce Arians.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: So when did he coach the Steelers from 2004 to 2006?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ironically enough, he was um the fun fact.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like fun facts, Tim?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fun fact.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was the offensive coordinator of the Browns in that 2003 wildcard game where they lost the Steelers.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, forgot about that.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: You want another fun fact?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: What's that?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: He coached with uh Alabama in 1981 and 82 uh for two seasons with coach Bear Bryant, the legendary Bear Bryant.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: He actually, I think he was the offensive coordinator, it's coordinator of that last game with uh Bear Bryant, the Liberty Bowl.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we're oh wow, that's pretty impressive.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you the that's our fun facts for this episode.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be a quiz, there'll be a quiz at the end, people.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um from 2007 to 2011, he was the Steelers offensive coordinator.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was a holdover from Cowers staff when Tomlin took over.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tomlin like did the rare thing of keeping a lot of Cowers assistants.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: He kept Lebeau, he kept Arians, you know.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think he kept Ken Anderson, who was the quarterback coach, too.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um Arians is kind of known as a quarterback whisperer.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he goes to the quarter and goes, You're a good quarterback.
• 32:11
  unknown: You're a really good quarterback.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Drew Stanton.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, anyway.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's coached Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Drew Stanton.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I could coach Tom Brady and it'd be okay.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just be standing there and be like, okay, what do you want to call Tom?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then And probably Peyton Manning, too.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, I could stand there and hold a clipboard and you know, oh, oh, here's our plays.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like this one?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Larry Foote, the Steelers linebacker, called him the coolest coach ever.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: He does kind of have like that attitude to him.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like he has a very quarterback attitude.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's like cool.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: He like talks like cool and stuff.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: His like big saying is no risk it, no biscuit.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so he likes to throw deep a lot.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um some stats, because everybody loves statistics.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, 2007, the Steelers were 10 and 6.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they were ninth again in the NFL.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: They seem to finish ninth.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then 2008, they they win the Super Bowl, but boy, their offense was garbage.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: They were 20th in the NFL.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was the year they didn't have an offensive line.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like they would drive all the way down the field and couldn't pick up a yard.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was the whole story of that season.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because like if they pick up a yard there, they probably put the Super Bowl away.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: That no one will ever remember that they had, was it, um, six plays, I think, from like inside the five-yard line because Arizona got a penalty and and they had to settle for a field goal.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, that none of that drama ever happens if they just score a touchdown there.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: The offensive line was so, so bad, and then they almost lost in the Super Bowl.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because they held.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they held on a pass play that would have clinched the Super Bowl.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and got a safety.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um Ben Rothesberger was 17 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not a very good year.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And now in 2007, Ben was 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions, and that's probably like this year that just goes under.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably Ben's one of the best passing years, and it goes under the radar.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know why that season goes under the radar, Tim?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because Tom Brady threw 50 freaking touchdowns that year.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody ever remembers that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like people are now saying, like, Ben's not going to go in the Hall of Fame because, oh, he never led the league.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he can't help it.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like he had a great year, the one year that somebody else has like an all-time year.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, that's me.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll step off my foot soapbox.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So 2009, um, they are fifth in the NFL.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, really good offensive year, but they only go nine and seven.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the year the uh defense couldn't hold a lead, right?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like they gave up a lead like Bruce Krykowski and like yes, stuff like that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Ben has 26 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, pretty good for Ben.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: They were fifth in the league.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um 2010, um, they have an appearance, Super Bowl 45.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually 12th in the NFL.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ben 17 touchdowns, five interceptions, and 12 games.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: He was that the suspended slash hurt year.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was suspended the first four games of the season.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um 2011, Bruce's last year before his retirement.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um retirement.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna talk about that, I'm sure.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am gonna bring the receipts that I'm sorry, Mike Tomlin.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make you look like a bad person, but that's on you.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um 21 touchdowns and 14 interceptions.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ben kind of regresses a little.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they finished 21st in the NFL, and I think what happens is they don't like the fact that Ben's getting hurt a lot because you know, there's a lot of like Bruce Arians likes to go deep a lot.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: He likes to throw the deep pass, no risk it, no biscuit.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a big fan of run the ball and set it up.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: He will run the ball, but not like you know, Ken Wizenhunt or any of those guys.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so why did Bruce Arians leave?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, it's considered this is January 20th, 2012.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's still on the Steelers website, it's still there, it's still for all of you to see.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't dig this up.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can look it up yourself.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll post a link to it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not making this up.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is Mike Tomlin.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate his efforts over the past five years as a team offensive coordinator for helping our offense to new heights during this time with the Steelers.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I am grateful to Bruce for contributing to our success and wishing him nothing the best in his retirement.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he totally retired and never coached again, right?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was, you know, why else they leave too much of a buddy with Ben Rothesberger.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um Ben getting hit too much.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: He did miss some games due to injury.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly think this is Tomlin's ego that gets in his way here.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really blame Mike Tomlin for this one.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so this is later.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did contact the Steelers and ask them for a comment on this, and they said, Look, this is ancient history, Mike Tomlin said.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: They made it, they made it clear it was Mike Tomlin's decision to fire Bruce Arians.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the Steelers said, We fired Bruce Arians.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it and then, you know, okay, that's just the Steelers, but maybe they're just same face.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Mike Tomlin in a Post Gazette article in March 2012.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was time for a change, Tomlin said, according to Post Gazette.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're moving into this situation where we have an opportunity to grow and develop some young talent.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was awesome to have an opportunity to maybe have some division of some common opponents.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: People who are comfortable with how you play get uncomfortable.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's going to happen to us this year.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're excited about that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he he literally says he fired.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right here, he says he retires, and then he says he fired him because there was like a rumor that like Mike Tomlin didn't have control over who he hired and fired his assistant coaches.
• 38:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: More than uh there's more quotes.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Arians gave his account of things after the 2011 season.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: He was hoping for a new contract one that would include a raise.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas said, I can't get you the money.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, I said, okay.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: He said, No, I can't get you a contract.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Are you firing me?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Oh, well, no, well, it's just a matter of words.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Mike, okay, if I don't have a contract, I'm fired.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: So he wouldn't give him, you know, he just wanted them gone.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: He got rid of them.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and that's a CBS sports article.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Decision to fire Tomlin still upsets Bruce Arians.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: The way they handled it was incredibly poor.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because so so so at the end of the day, the you yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: They they didn't want him back because the way he ran the offense, it was all long developing plays.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, he liked to get downfield, and that meant you had to give the receivers time, and the Steelers never had the offensive line to really do that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Ben was getting killed.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: They Ben was young at that point, but by 2011 he had been in the league a few years, and and it was the right decision.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Ben played another 10 years in the league and had like these incredible numbers after that, once they built an offense that was more uh uh more of a traditional NFL offense that was wasn't one where he just ran around and tried to make plays and ran for his life.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it was the right decision.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason Tomlin came out and said all this is because there was always this rumor that Art Rooney II had made the decision to fire um, Bruce Arians and not Mike Tomlin.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And Tomlin said, you know, actually, this is an article by Ed Bouchette.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: More than anything, I'm not going to apologize for change.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's football, and I think for all of us in this industry understand that, and our intentions are that if it changed for the better.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: So Which is fine, which is fine, then just own that, right?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like that that reminds me, like when we interviewed Sid Bream, we were talking about how when the pirates let him go, they like tried to come out in the media and be like, he's our number one priority, we really want to re-sign him.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then they they didn't even try to do that.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: But they were trying to save face because he was a popular player, and I feel like that's what the Stewart's were trying to do here.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: They were trying to save face because and Arians wasn't even that popular.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other you know the but he was buddy, uh, he's buddy buddy with the quarterback.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like Yeah, I think I think that was more important to save face with the the locker room than it was the fans.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's another thing people are like, why did we ever get rid of Bruce Arians?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like you hated him when he was here.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: People people screaming at him in the at the Super Bowl parade to get a fullback.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Remember that?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh screaming at the Superman.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go after after the 40, I I couldn't do another Super Bowl parade.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that that that was there was an interview with him where he talked about that.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't there for that, but I that you know, so so people people were sick of Bruce Arians anyway.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, when he went on to win a Super Bowl later, which he'll talk about, then people were like, Why did we ever get rid of Bruce Arians?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: That was a decision they felt they needed to make at that time for the long-term viability of their franchise quarterback.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: So just own it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try to, you know, he retired.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like he didn't retire.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody, nobody bought that at the time.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody knew that was horse manure.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think you said like said it right, Art Rooney, Dan Rooney, whoever was all running the team at that time, Mike Tomlin, like wanted to protect the franchise quarterback.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, he played very successful, had the best years of his career, probably statistically under Haley, quite honestly.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um here's a Ron Cook article.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um quarterback Ben Rothelsberger is a pampered baby.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Many say he was too chummy with former coordinator Bruce Arians.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: The two have homes in Georgia and they have golf together and vacation together.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, oh no, they're friends.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you're are you talking about like that article, like the people when they write articles, oh, I'm not saying it, people are saying it.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like if it's if you're saying it, just say it.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so where did Bruce Arians went?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, he retired, you know, just decide to risk it or biscuit, you know, somewhere else.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, he goes to uh Indianapolis, actually, in 2012, and he ends up being a coordinator with Chuck Bogano, and Chuck Bagano, unfortunately, gets sick, he gets cancer, and uh misses the whole season.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh the Bruce Arians, to his credit, rallies the team around Andrew Luck, and they they actually I think they make the playoffs that year, and they they have this they go 9-3, and he actually parlays that into a job with what other team loves the hire Steelers former assistant head coaches.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not Tennessee, it's not Buffalo, it's Arizona.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: So Arizona from 2013 to 2017, he has a record of 49 and 30.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but his once again, the issues like I remember the um quarterbacks getting hurt a lot.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like he would go, like, didn't they have to play Drew Stanton a couple times, like their third string quarterback, you know, draw play Drew.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that was Carson Palmer, and Carson Palmer was late, was a veteran at that point, and yeah, he kept getting hurt.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: So was he um in Tampa 2019 to 2021, he goes and he has a record of 31 and 18, and he won Super Bowl fifty five.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he's still the old as of right now, he's the oldest coach to win a Super Bowl at sixty three years old.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: So was he successful or not, Tim?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's pretty easy to say that yes.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: He took Arizona to a whisper.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Looks like he hasn't win, who I would call successful.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: This guy actually won a Super Bowl with Tampa, which was not the Tampa that it used to be.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: They actually have good ownership and competent ownership.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Found his footing in Indy, and then he's had success everywhere he went.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Won a Super Bowl.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: He did like recruit Tom Brady.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he was smart enough to get that guy.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: No risk and no biscuit.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's his saying.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Taking calculating risk on a football field.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so uh do you where is he now?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's kind of retired also, but he's like they call him like a football consultant.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like a professor emeritus position, like I said earlier.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know how like college, like they have these professor emeritus, these guys that are like legends, and they can still come in and have some office hours here or there, but they're not expected to work too much.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a pretty pretty sweet gig if you can get it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you any final thoughts on Bruce Arians there, Tim?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, really good coach.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously proved that he was a really good coach after he left.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did you think he should have had a fullback?
• 45:11
  unknown: No.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, that's that's another situation where like two things can be true.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like he did get his quarterbacks killed in in Arizona.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they were playing Drew Stanton at some point because once again, he wouldn't protect the quarterback well enough.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: It would be a good what if.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what if the Steelers keep him through all those 2010s years?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work out?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but but it was it their logic at the time was sound, and like you said, Ben had his best years after that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna finish up with the I would say the most successful assistant coach to become a head coach.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can run through who we think is the most successful.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you'll disagree with me, Tim, but so uh Mr.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Tony Dungey.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when did Tony Gungey coach with the Steelers?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: He played for the Steelers in 1970 and 1978.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, can do you do you know the fun fact about Tony Dungey, Tim?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: The interception and he's the last he's the last NFL player with an interception and throwing a touchdown passing.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened in a game against Houston in 1977 when everybody was hurt, like Terry Hanratdy, Terry Bradshaw, every everybody else.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um he won Super Bowl 13 with the Steelers.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's a defensive coordinator of the Steelers from 1984 to 1988.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his stats uh as a defensive coordinator are pretty good.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: 11th, um kind of middling in 84, 85, they're 15th, 86th, they're 17th, 87th, they go to 10th ranked in the NFL, but then in 88, the wheels really fall off.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: That 88th season must have been something.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're 28th in the NFL, and um, he gets demoted.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't get fired, but he gets demoted back to like I forgot defensive back coach in '88.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's kind of a big thing in his career.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he bounces around after that.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he goes to Kansas City and Minnesota, and he keeps getting passed over for head coaching jobs, Tim.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why did it take so long for Tony Dungey to get a head coaching job, even in the 90s?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Steelers, you realize the Steelers didn't even interview him in 1992 when Chuck Knoll left.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean And he had been gone.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like, oh, we're hiring enough.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I guess he is a Chuck Knoll guy, but he had been gone from the Steelers for like four years.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: He was in Minnesota by then.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't I don't know if that was race related or not.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of people thought that at the time, but then you also had like Denny Green and Arch Show.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: You had it, you know, black coaches by then.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I maybe it was just a perception that like this guy's a good assistant, but he'll never make a good head coach.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it was the 1988 season killed his coaching career for a little bit.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and then he quit like remember too, like when he got demoted, he quit.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like he left the Steelers after that because he wasn't gonna accept being demoted.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if that like quitting.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: But he did, he did were.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: He he I know, I know, but but but I don't know if people held that against him or not, is what I'm saying.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, oh Chuck Chuck Noel, one of the greatest coaches of all time, you know, wanted to change, you know, wanted to to demote him and he just left.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if people looked at that negatively.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm totally speculating, I'm just saying.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it just seems shocking the Steelers didn't even uh interview him.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe that's why.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe that led to the Rooney role, you know, because maybe that's Dan Dan Fob.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have once again I'm just talking.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so where did Tony Dungey go?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: He does not get hired in Tampa as a head coach till 1996, Tim.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like this isn't just like oh '93 gets hired.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's four more years till he finally gets hired.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And at Tampa, and Tim, describe Tampa in 1996.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't think that they had had a winning season in something like 15 years.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it they were they I think they had Sam Weich, right?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they I I think Sam Weich was the head coach before him.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Sam, but they had turned through a whole bunch of franchises.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: They were a terrible franchise.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they I think I think Sam uh the early on, like the Blake the Glazers had finally bought because they had Hugh Culverhouse for years, and that guy was a cheapskate.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: He was awful.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: He he he's the guy that drafted Bo Jackson and basically tricked Bo Jackson into giving up his eligibility for college.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so Bo Jackson's like, nope, I'm not playing for you, and went and played baseball instead.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's how just god-awful of a franchise they were at that point.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they like one buck place, like their practice facility was right beside the um the airport, like you couldn't hear yourself think.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like if you read, like I've read some of Tony Dungey's book, and it like it's funny because like it talks like he does talk affectionately.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like kind of like one of those places, like they're so crappy, but like you're you had such good memories there, you do remember stuff.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: So he goes on, he he comes into Tampa and it's an opportunity, right?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe not the greatest opportunity, but I will say this.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: He has the ownership has changed, and the ownership wants to spend money, they want to win.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he actually does really well.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that I remember the break up the bucks.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the break up the bucks cover of Sports Illustrated?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because they won like three games in a row or something.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people and they actually changed your uniform colors, and that's definitely what it wasn't hiring Tony Dungey, it was going to you know red and silver instead of orange and white.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what made all the difference.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Getting rid of the cream sickle uniforms.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: But they do look cool when they bring them back, I can't.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he makes the playoffs four times, four times in Tampa Bay, Tim.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they'd lose in the NFC Championship game to St.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, um, the greatest show on turf on a game.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like they really didn't have a great quarterback.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: They had Sean King, who was like kind of a very mediocre, more of a backup guy.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, they had Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they never really have a great quarterback for him in there.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then he gets fired in 2001.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's devastating.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like when they fire him, like even like I don't know why they have a they have like an Amazon like documentary on the Tampa Bay Bucks.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have one on the Steelers or the Giants or the Bears.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, we have one on the Tampa Bay Bucks.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why, I don't know.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I was watching and it was interesting because like they go over that Tony Dungeon, they go from like you know, the Hugh Culver house stuff to the all like you know, the modern stuff.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And watching like the people interviewed, like when they fired Tony Dungeon, you see how beloved he was in that community, and he still is.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like people love him down there.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like when they win the Super Bowl the next year, like his players are texting him and thinking, Oh, it should have been you, we let you down.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like Warren Sapp says that.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um who's the Brooks, Brooks, the middle linebacker, says that.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they just like they just feel like they let him down.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: So he's a very beloved, you know, coach.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, he does get another chance because you know he built this organ.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: He goes to Indy, which, you know, and they've they they've been kind of a sad sack organization, too.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: And although on Jim Moore, they had made some strides, so he's at least mediocrity-ish.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: So they and he has Peyton Manning, so now he has a great coach.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, 2005, they're winning all these games.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: They, you know, they're what 13 and 3.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: His quicker hasn't missed a field goal, and they lose to the Steelers and Ben Rothsberger, you know, on a game they probably should have won.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the next year, to their credit, you know, they really have a much tougher season and they win the Super Bowl against, you know, um Lovey Smith, who was one of his assistant coaches in Tampa, along with Mike Tomlin and Jim Caldwell.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think Jim Caldwell was a really good coach.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know people don't like him, but I always like Jim Caldwell.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I just a lot of success, first African-American coach to win a Super Bowl.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's 85 and 27 in Indianapolis, 7-6 in the playoffs.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he goes on to host NF NFL on Sunday night.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um was he successful or not?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think he is.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's the most successful Steelers assistant.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: He just didn't come in to like like Bruce Sarings when he came to Tampa had already been kind of set up by Tony Dungey.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: And same with John Gruden.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, John Gruden won with Tony Dungey's team.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: They just needed an offensive guy.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it just very Chuck Knoll-like, took these two teams and built them into winners and just great.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: He has all these great heads, you talk about like a head coaching tree, Herm Edwards, Lovey Smith, Jim Caldwell, Mike Tomlin, Leslie Frazier, all these guys went on to be head coaches.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, Jim Caldwell, Mike Tomlin, you know, even Lovey Smith, they had their success.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even Herm Edwards had success.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: So he won a Super Bowl champion, two-time Greasy Neal Award, George Hallis Award, Lamar Hunt Trophy, made the all-decade team in the 2000s, Indianapolis Colts Ring of Honor, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ring of Honor, um, the Stag Coaching Award, um, Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2016.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Where is he now?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: He he left, he got uh let go by the Sunday Night Football people.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know, working on a documentary, maybe I heard.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: So probably retired now, much like everybody else on this list, too.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so was he the most successful?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: More than Bruce Arians or Ken Wins and Hunt, Chan Gailey, even John Fox.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can maybe debate Tony Dungey and Bruce Arians.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Those other guys didn't win that.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he definitely had the hardest route to being a head coach out of everybody on this list.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thoughts on Tony Dungey, Tim?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's the most successful former Steelers assistant that went on to become a head coach because of, like you said, building two franchises up that were just kind of garbage before he he got there, and taking them both, you know, Tampa Bay really close to a Super Bowl and then Indianapolis all the way to the Super Bowl.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I think, yeah, I think he's he's he's he's definitely number one.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it's hard to argue, and he's a very likable guy.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a yeller and screamer, he's very like cold, calculating guy.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he's kind of different.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, very interesting.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he gave a lot of other guys, you know, you can see he spawned a lot of other guys.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh learned a lot from Chuck Knowle.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you know he talks well of Chuck Knowle and um good for him.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um well that's it for our list.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's the list.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: If there's anybody we forgot, anybody you want to add, you know, if you really you know thought who was the guy that went to college and did well that we forgot to add?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well Joe Walton.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can you can complain about all the Joe Waltons family can come and hunt me down and beat me up, I guess.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um thank you for tuning in as usual.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh check us out on Facebook, uh check our website.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Tim loves maintaining that.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there'll be links there to you can check and see if I was telling the truth about Mike Daudlin or not.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, thank you so much for uh tuning in.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate it.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Word of mouth is great.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh to click like on all your services, and uh, we'll check you out next time.