Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Inside Day of AI with Jeff Riley: Preparing Students for the Future

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Inside Day of AI with Jeff Riley: Preparing Students for the Future · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:40
This podcast along with co -host David Berner.
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I am Jeremy Mikla. And we're excited to be joined
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today by special guest, Jeff Reilly. Jeff is
0:50
the CEO. co -founder of Day of AI. They've got
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just a ton of great resources for educators when
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it comes to AI use, AI literacy, and I know they've
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got some new initiatives and things that they're
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kicking off with some intriguing partnerships
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I think as well too. And Jeff, we want to kind
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of turn things over to you here as we get started
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and just kind of get a feel, a sense for kind
1:19
of like your journey through education and into
1:23
education technology spaces. You want to kind
1:25
of describe how you got to where you are? Absolutely.
1:29
First, thanks for having me, guys. I do appreciate
1:31
it. So I did 32 years in public education. I
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started as a special education teacher. I was
1:38
an adjustment counselor, an assistant principal,
1:40
a principal, a deputy superintendent, a superintendent.
1:44
And then my last six and a half years as commissioner
1:45
of education in Massachusetts. I thought I was
1:48
retiring, like retiring, retiring. And then our
1:52
friends from MIT called me and they said, hey,
1:55
do you want to run this nonprofit on AI and education?
1:59
And I basically, I think they were confused by
2:01
why I would ask that question. But basically,
2:04
we didn't regulate social media 15 years ago.
2:07
and it looks like we've got a lot of mental health
2:10
challenges with kids because of cell phones,
2:13
social media, and the like. AI has some real
2:16
problems, right? I actually think AI is gonna
2:18
be the future of education, but it has to be
2:20
done safely as well as productively. So as long
2:23
as they said I could speak safely and make sure
2:25
that kids know how to use this, then I was in
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and they agreed to that. So that's how I got
2:29
here. Cool. And can you give us a little bit
2:33
of background of what you're then doing with
2:35
Day of AI? Yeah, so Dave AI is like a fusion
2:40
of what I would call a young MIT technologist
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and Experience read old educators like myself
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They really know the the cutting edge of the
2:49
technology and we know how to apply it in schools
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And what we really do is three things. I think
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you know, we train teachers and administrators
2:55
We help people with policy and then we build
2:59
AI literacy curriculum for free that people can
3:02
use So you definitely have that background, I
3:06
think, just describing the various roles that
3:08
you've had to bring this all together. But it
3:11
really seems to me like an interesting fusion
3:14
of the technology and the people that understand
3:17
the technology along with the pedagogy and the
3:21
management to be able to implement it effectively.
3:24
So how far broad of a reach do you think Day
3:27
of AI has had in the last couple of years? Well,
3:31
we're in over 170 countries. You know, we've
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trained everywhere from half our team just got
3:38
back from Dubai the other day. We've trained
3:41
the teachers in Colombia. But, you know, I like
3:44
most of our work inside the United States, right?
3:47
And so whether it's us training all the education
3:51
commissioners in the country twice now through
3:53
CCSSO, once in Phoenix, and then we did the policy
3:57
one for them in D .C. where it's training all
4:00
the superintendents in Alabama, all the superintendents
4:03
in Connecticut. I mean, we're just those are
4:05
some of the higher level ones for the for the
4:07
higher level administrators. But our bread and
4:09
butter is really working with schools and districts
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like how does this technology work in a school?
4:15
Where does the rubber meet the road? How do you
4:17
think about a policy in the time when, frankly,
4:20
the technology is moving so quick, your policy
4:23
could be outdated six months from now, that kind
4:26
of thing. And that kind of leads in a little
4:28
bit to the Well, so with the continuous evolving
4:32
of AI and how you have to, even if you develop
4:35
those guidelines, you've got to continuously
4:37
be readdressing them and everything. So even
4:40
though it's called day of AI, it's much larger
4:44
than that. Right. I mean, it's because I would
4:45
imagine a lot of your things that you're focused
4:47
on are going to be sustainable things. I mean,
4:51
for I know with the changes you have to consider,
4:54
but with your different trainings and things
4:57
like that, you want to set districts up for success.
5:01
So, you talk a little bit about what that looks
5:03
like as a district starts to apply some of the
5:06
concepts of Day of AI into their district more
5:10
like medium or long term. Yeah, I mean, I think,
5:13
you know, Day of AI was this idea to dip your
5:16
toe in the water and run one day of AI activities
5:20
with kids. It seems very quickly morphed into
5:24
a much deeper kind of, how do you infuse this
5:26
technology into schools? And when we work with
5:30
schools, we usually work with folks, start with
5:36
a keynote, uh -oh, and then, and then our team
5:42
will come in and work with people. We train people
5:44
both virtually and in person. But the idea, I
5:48
think, is things are changing quickly. So for
5:51
instance, when we, people are always asking about,
5:55
you know, do we do a school committee policy
5:57
on artificial intelligence, which some people
5:59
have done. We actually recommend against that.
6:03
We recommend that schools start with their high
6:05
school handbook and from a statement of values.
6:08
We value academic integrity. Great. That's a
6:11
core value for my district. In that case, the
6:14
kid has to disclose if they're going to use an
6:16
AI bot, or the teacher has to disclose if they
6:18
want them to use an AI bot. And the idea is,
6:21
because this technology is moving so quickly,
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let's just begin the process. Hold on loosely,
6:26
but don't let go, as an old 80s rock band once
6:29
said. Because things are going to change pretty
6:32
rapidly here. And when you're looking at when
6:36
it comes to the things that students need to
6:39
be aware of as they're approaching different
6:43
platforms or just AI concepts, what is the first
6:48
thing that you start with? Because we know that
6:50
like learning how to prompt effectively is important,
6:53
being aware of different ethical concerns, environmental
6:58
components to it, all those different types of
7:00
things that go into it. Where would you start
7:04
with? students, you know, if you had them in
7:07
front of you today, let's say. Yeah, I mean,
7:12
I think let me do teachers first and then students.
7:15
When we talk to teachers about it, right, they
7:17
need to be aware of voice clones, deep fakes,
7:19
energy consumption, data privacy, bias, plagiarism
7:23
for the English teachers. Right. Hallucinations
7:26
where sometimes AI just makes things up with
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kids. I think it's fun to start with the idea
7:34
that AI can often be wrong, and whether you call
7:36
that hallucinations or something else, right?
7:38
I mean, I think only about a year ago did they
7:41
fix the fact in one of the AI programs that strawberry
7:44
has three R's in it, but if you used to ask it,
7:47
it would tell you two or four, right? You may
7:50
have seen the famous example of how do I keep
7:52
my cheese on my pizza? And AI will tell you,
7:56
add an eighth of a cup of glue. And that's probably
8:00
not particularly helpful, but it's believed that
8:02
that answer came from either Twitter or Reddit,
8:06
where someone sarcastically said, add an eighth
8:09
of a cup of glue. The computer didn't recognize
8:12
that it was being sarcastic and presented it
8:14
as the actual answer. And so teaching kids that
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this thing can be wrong and what it is and isn't,
8:21
I think you guys may have seen a lot of news
8:23
recently about kids having these AI chat bots.
8:26
think of them as like AI imaginary friends, you
8:30
know, goading kids into self -harm, and in some
8:33
cases we've seen kids kill themselves. not recognizing
8:36
that these actually aren't real people, right?
8:39
And this is not, you know, this is an algorithmic
8:41
device. You know, it's a prediction mechanism
8:44
and teaching kids what AI is and isn't, I think,
8:47
is the first step in all that. Now, look, do
8:49
I think prompting is hugely important? Absolutely.
8:53
We teach prompting by doing the old peanut butter
8:56
and jelly exercise. You guys know that from like
8:58
the elementary grades where You tell the kids
9:01
to pretend like you're an alien and you have
9:04
to, I'm an alien and you have to teach me how
9:06
to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And
9:08
they say, well, I'll put the peanut butter on
9:10
the bread and you take the jar and you slam it
9:12
on the bread. And they realize very quickly that
9:14
they have to be very precise in their directions,
9:17
right? And what we say is, That is how you have
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to operate when you operate with AI. If you want
9:23
to prompt, you have to be as specific as possible
9:25
because the better, the more detailed you can
9:28
be in your prompting or your questioning, the
9:30
better information you're going to get back.
9:33
And as far as the teachers go, one of the big
9:37
things that we run into with our even our own
9:41
trainings is just the lack of time for something
9:44
that's so important that we need to. get teachers'
9:48
heads wrapped around AI, what it is, what it
9:50
does, how it can be used effectively, all those
9:54
different things. Can you talk a little bit about
9:56
how Day of AI is teacher -friendly rather than
10:01
just like another thing that they've got to attend
10:04
like any other PD, which sometimes it is looked
10:07
at like that? Yeah, I mean, I think teachers
10:10
would walk over broken glass if they could get
10:12
something that they could bring back to their
10:13
classroom. Sometimes, unfortunately, PD is not
10:16
always that inspiring. What we do is we try to
10:20
show both be interactive in our professional
10:24
development, whether it's virtually or in person.
10:27
But also, I think what we're able to convey to
10:30
people is this can make your life easier. AI
10:34
can actually, for a teacher, take away a lot
10:36
of administrative tasks and burdens to, God forbid,
10:40
allow you to get back to thinking about building
10:43
great, exciting lessons. And to give teachers
10:46
the time and space and to show them some examples
10:48
of that, like, they get into it pretty quickly,
10:52
right? I was a special education teacher. I told
10:54
you at the top of the show. Magic School has
10:56
something, an IEP generator in its suite of services.
10:59
I used to spend hours writing IEPs. This thing
11:03
can help you build a foundation very quickly.
11:06
Now that doesn't mean that you have to kind of
11:08
completely turn it over to the technology, it
11:10
wouldn't be an IEP if you did, but you then can
11:13
take that foundation and shape it using your
11:16
expertise to build an IEP document in probably
11:20
one -tenth the time that it used to be able to
11:22
take you. I was a middle school principal for
11:24
a long time, so old I used to hand schedule my
11:26
buildings. AI can now schedule your buildings
11:29
like that, and in big cases of big high schools,
11:32
save you tens of thousands of dollars, right?
11:35
Like, there are all these things that AI can
11:37
do to make educators' lives easier so that you
11:41
can get back to the business of teaching, which,
11:43
by the way, is what most people got into this
11:45
for, right? To build exciting, engaging lessons
11:47
for kids. With AI and you know, and I think about
11:54
some other past technologies in major leaps forward,
11:57
right? You know when when broadband becomes first
12:01
widely available not even just like internet
12:03
but like people can get reliable connections
12:05
And and we still struggle with that a little
12:08
bit in some of the rural areas of Minnesota getting
12:10
everyone equitably connected but it almost becomes
12:13
ubiquitous that everyone needs to be able to
12:17
to connect online. Are we going to reach a point
12:20
where you think AI is going to be that ubiquitous
12:24
type of technology that we just will expect that
12:27
people will be able to have? And then there's
12:29
a second part to that question. And if we do
12:32
get to that point, then how do we train people,
12:35
you know, teachers and students and anyone in
12:38
our communities to be able to use those tools
12:42
effectively, safely, responsibly? Yeah, it's
12:46
a great question. Look, I mean I think people
12:49
sometimes are surprised to learn that AI is already
12:51
here. Every time you try to send a text and it
12:53
tries to predict your next word, that's AI. Every
12:56
time you're on Netflix and it curates for you
12:58
movies you think you'll like, that's AI. We took
13:02
a Waymo when we were out in Phoenix, Arizona
13:04
recently, a self -driving car, that's AI. So
13:07
I do think it is going to become, and in some
13:09
ways it has become ubiquitous. Now, when we talk
13:11
about it for schools, what I believe is this.
13:15
There's a lot of... consternation out there that
13:19
AI is gonna replace people in the workforce,
13:22
right? And I don't think AI will ever replace
13:25
teachers. I think the foundation of education
13:27
is personal relationships. But what I do think
13:30
is people with AI skills in the future are gonna
13:33
replace those without AI skills. And so that's
13:37
why it's so critical that our kids learn this.
13:40
in a way so that they can be competitive in a
13:43
future world economy that we can't even envision
13:46
at the moment, right? So I think it's not a nice
13:50
to have or an add -on, it's a must -have for
13:52
kids that they need to understand. You know,
13:55
we used to talk about the three Rs, reading,
13:57
writing, arithmetic, I guess, but now I feel
14:01
like it's the four Rs, reading, writing, arithmetic,
14:03
and artificial intelligence, because I think
14:06
kids, it's that important. And so, you know,
14:10
and you know, the good news, of course, is kids,
14:12
as you guys have heard of, you know, digital
14:14
natives, they're born into this. We're seeing,
14:17
or I've seen, because I'm older than you guys,
14:19
as a digital immigrant, right? The first 20 years
14:23
of my life, there was no internet. My kids like
14:25
to tease me. They say, hey, tell us again when
14:27
there was no internet and the phone was attached
14:29
to the wall and, you know, there was no microwave
14:32
ovens. How did you eat? And all of that is true,
14:34
right? I mean, I think the internet for me was
14:37
called the Encyclopedia Britannica in my family's
14:41
living room. And in the Reilly family, we were
14:43
missing the S edition. So major knowledge gaps
14:46
there. But the idea is, yes, that's true, but
14:50
we figured it out eventually. We're going to
14:52
figure A out. to AI out as well, it'll just take
14:56
us a little time to get there. So those skills
14:59
and then the knowledge sets that you think are
15:02
necessary kind of leads us into AI literacy.
15:06
And like David had mentioned, teachers are asked
15:09
to do a lot of things within the classroom, right?
15:11
Is AI literacy just one more thing that teachers
15:15
need to be embedding into? into the types of
15:18
lessons that they have? Or, you know, maybe we
15:21
should even back up. What do we mean by AI literacy
15:23
to begin with, you know? Yeah, so, you know,
15:26
I think just AI literacy means understanding
15:29
what AI is and what it's not, how it can help
15:33
you go further and faster than you ever did before,
15:36
but also recognizing its problems and limitations,
15:39
like understanding underneath the hood. what's
15:43
actually happening. We've seen a lot of kids,
15:44
you know, involved with self -injurious behavior
15:47
because of AI companions and things like that.
15:49
Like I think if kids understood that this is
15:52
a prediction algorithm device and the mechanics
15:55
behind it, we'd be able to cut down on a lot
15:59
of that stuff. And they could actually be productive
16:00
users of the tool. So to back it up even further,
16:06
like the PISA International Test in 2029 is going
16:10
to make AI literacy a discrete exam for the first
16:13
time. because they recognize its import. Now,
16:16
does it mean that you have to add another class
16:19
in AI literacy? Or can you do it in your regular
16:22
class? I think that's open to debate. What I
16:25
tell teachers who are concerned about it is,
16:28
yes, we have free AI literacy curriculum that
16:31
you can use, certainly. But you can take your
16:34
already great lessons and infuse AI into those
16:38
lessons. So you don't have to throw out the baby
16:41
with the bathwater. And the idea is we don't
16:44
have to know the final destination here. You
16:47
just have to start. I show a slide when I speak
16:50
about this publicly and it's three tidal waves.
16:52
And in the first tidal wave, the guy's trying
16:54
to hold back the tide. And in the second tidal
16:57
wave, he's buried his head in the sand. And then
16:59
the third tidal wave, he's surfing the wave.
17:03
And I said, you don't even have to know how to
17:04
surf, but you do have to dip your toe in the
17:06
water here and just start. And then you try to
17:09
show them different examples of how this can
17:13
make their life easier and how this could be
17:16
embedded in a lesson you're currently doing to
17:18
make it even more exciting. And so, I think teachers
17:22
recognize that things have changed and the demands
17:27
put on them post COVID even, there's a lot of
17:31
issues going on. They've got into this to teach
17:34
and if they could find ways that can help them
17:37
get back to a place where they can teach and
17:40
be excited about their jobs, I'm gonna be in
17:43
for that. And so that's the exciting part of
17:45
this. Yeah, and I really think, and I'm in complete
17:48
agreement with you, that it starts with having
17:51
that relationship with that student that no AI
17:54
is ever gonna be able to take the place of the
17:56
teacher with, right? And then I think it comes
17:58
down to from there to really... enhance that
18:01
student's learning is to start with the goal
18:03
in mind. What is it that you're trying to achieve?
18:06
What do you need your students to learn? And
18:08
then can AI play a role in helping to either
18:13
accommodate that for students or to accelerate
18:15
that learning for students? And I think if they
18:18
start to think of AI is being that partner or
18:21
that teammate in that journey. I think it just
18:24
makes it a lot easier for teachers to be able
18:27
to connect that, knowing that I think they're
18:29
coming from that place that the things that got
18:32
them into teaching in the first place, like you
18:34
said, are still ever present. Right. I mean,
18:37
I'll just give you one example that we show to
18:40
teachers. We had, you know, engineering standards
18:43
in eighth grade in Massachusetts, for instance.
18:45
So we would talk about a big dig construction
18:49
project and you have a class of 30 students and
18:51
you're trying to do an activity you know an engineering
18:54
activity with kids but you've got one kid that
18:57
reads at a second grade level another kid that
18:59
reads at a college level and most of the kids
19:01
are you know reading at the middle school -ish
19:04
type level well if you don't differentiate your
19:07
instruction you're going to lose the kid at the
19:10
second grade level and you're going to lose the
19:11
kid at the college level right the second grade
19:15
level reader is not going to be able to keep
19:17
up and understand the 12th grader is going to
19:19
be bored. Now, for the first time, you can kind
19:22
of beam an article, a summary on this engineering
19:26
big dig lesson written at a second grade level
19:29
to the one kid, beam another article, same summary,
19:34
but written at a 12th grade level to another
19:36
kid, the rest of the kids get their grade level
19:38
ones and they can all do the activity together.
19:41
And so you've kept the entire class engaged,
19:44
whereas, you know, before we always said we could
19:46
differentiate instruction. But as you guys know,
19:49
that's very hard to do and problematic. This
19:52
is the first time a technology is going to allow
19:55
us to differentiate and personalize instruction
19:58
that I've ever seen. And that's why I think it's
20:01
different than, you know, it used to be. technology
20:05
was going to be the silver bullet. If every kid
20:07
had broadband, if every kid had an iPad, suddenly
20:10
everything would be fixed. That didn't get to
20:13
the core of instruction. This technology can
20:16
get to the core of instruction and help people
20:18
change their practice for the better. And if
20:23
you're looking at with the student use side of
20:25
things and just for responsible use, one of the
20:31
things that is you know becomes an issue in the
20:34
use of AI and I always argue it's it's for everybody
20:37
it's not just related to students but the ability
20:40
to keep your own voice in the use of AI. So can
20:44
you talk a little bit about methods for keeping
20:48
your voice and using AI more as a thinking partner
20:51
as opposed to like what everything started off
20:54
as and what teachers were really worried about
20:56
which was they're using it to write their whole
20:59
papers and not doing any sort of work whatsoever.
21:02
Can you talk about any methods for keeping student
21:05
voice in assignments, assessments, all of that?
21:08
Yeah, so I would say a couple of things, right?
21:12
One of the biggest dangers that we as an education
21:15
sector need to grapple with is the idea that
21:18
this technology is a tool that can help us go
21:21
further faster, but only if we already have a
21:24
knowledge base, only if we already know how to
21:27
think critically. And so The danger here is that
21:31
a kid could write his paper with chat GPT to
21:34
your point, you know, just cheating basically.
21:37
And then the teacher could use brisk another
21:40
AI program to grade the paper and everybody goes
21:42
to the beach. And so everyone's cognitively offloaded
21:46
their brains, which are now atrophying at the
21:48
beach, even though it's a nice sunny day. And
21:51
so we actually wind up getting dumber or become
21:53
drones. That's particularly dangerous, particularly
21:57
when we know that AI sometimes gives out bad
21:59
information. And so how do we make sure that
22:03
our kids have a knowledge base to begin with,
22:06
but then are going further faster? I know that
22:08
a lot of people like to... I use the analogy
22:13
of a calculator for AI. And back in the day,
22:17
people thought, oh, kids won't be able to do
22:18
math with a calculator. But actually, it turns
22:21
out kids could do deeper math with a graphing
22:23
calculator. I think a better example might be
22:26
the moving walkway in an airport. You can stand
22:31
on that moving walkway and get faster to where
22:33
you need to be. But if you're actually walking,
22:36
on that moving walkway it's almost like you're
22:38
running because you're going very fast and what
22:41
we need to make sure is that the kids are always
22:43
walking and flexing their brain muscles and to
22:46
do that in class means you know it could it could
22:49
take several forms right i know the the english
22:53
teachers all over america are up in arms about
22:55
chat gpt i get it totally valid i would gently
22:59
push back and say it's not like we haven't seen
23:01
this before I remember they had these things
23:04
called Cliff Notes back in the day, which was
23:06
the analog version of Jet GPT cheating, right?
23:09
Like we figured this out before, we can figure
23:12
this out now, whether it's blue books or restructuring
23:15
how you teach, we'll be able to get around it.
23:18
But the bigger point is, how do we make sure?
23:20
that our kids' brains are being flexed. How do
23:23
we make sure that kids can prove they have a
23:26
knowledge base? One of the things I've written
23:28
recently is this idea that this is an incredibly
23:31
powerful technology, and we need to have kids
23:35
prove to us that they're ready to use it. And
23:37
so, we don't, I have two kids, they're in their
23:41
20s now, but when they were 16 and ready to drive,
23:44
I didn't just throw them the car keys. They had
23:47
to go to driver's education class and then they
23:49
had to be, I had to be in the front seat white
23:51
knuckling with them as they learned to drive
23:53
before they took the test. AI is an even more
23:57
powerful technology, I would argue. And I think
23:59
our kids need to prove to us that they know what
24:02
AI is and what it's not and have that AI literacy.
24:05
And at the same time, prove that they have a
24:07
knowledge base so that they can actually utilize
24:11
AI even better. I'll give you one more example.
24:15
I have ChatGPT on my phone. And I fight with
24:20
it every day, at least once a day. I probably
24:23
use it 10 times a day. I probably fight with
24:26
it once or twice a day because I know what it's
24:28
telling me is incorrect. But if you didn't have
24:31
a knowledge base to know that, you just blindly
24:33
accept what it tells you, right? So you can't
24:36
go that far if you're just taking this in verbatim
24:40
and accepting it as gospel. You have to have
24:43
your own understanding of what's happening. And
24:47
as you work with districts and as you talk with
24:50
your team, and what are you seeing that districts
24:54
that have started to implement AI or have engaged
24:58
in trainings, what are you seeing that they're
25:00
getting right? And then maybe even what are they
25:03
struggling with? I know you already just mentioned
25:05
a few things there, but is there anything else?
25:09
What are they getting right? And then what are
25:10
they still struggling with? I think what they're
25:13
getting right is when they're having open and
25:16
honest conversations with kids. And as a corollary
25:20
to that, I think some teachers are starting to
25:22
change what their instruction looks like a little
25:24
bit. So that it's not just kind of a call and
25:27
response thing that could be easily obtained
25:30
from Gemini or Grok or whatever bot you're using.
25:33
And I think they've started to think about how
25:36
I can engage kids in a different way. I think
25:39
the best thing that... districts are getting
25:41
right is they're starting with the tools for
25:44
teachers that can make their lives easier and
25:48
let them get back to using that time and space
25:52
during their very busy lives to focus on building
25:55
better pedagogy and. curriculum materials for
25:59
kids, right? People got into teaching to inspire
26:01
children. They didn't get into it to do lunch
26:04
duty. They didn't get into it to necessarily
26:08
write IEPs, although those are important. The
26:12
earlier example I gave you about scheduling my
26:14
building, I mean, that took a lot of time, right?
26:17
Like you'd rather be out there working with kids
26:19
and doing things that you think are more important.
26:22
So the fact that the school districts that are
26:25
really moving on this are doing two things. They
26:27
are figuring out how they can use these tools
26:30
to make their lives easier so they can go back
26:33
to really focusing on instruction. And then the
26:37
next thing they're doing, they're sharing exemplars
26:40
of what they're doing in class. I used Gemini
26:44
this way. I used Brisk this way. Right. I use
26:48
timely to schedule my classes this way. And when
26:51
people start having those conversations, then,
26:54
you know, that's where the power comes from when
26:56
teachers sharing best practices with each other.
26:59
You're making a geek out of this. I'm so sorry.
27:02
Sorry. One of the things, too, is that we kind
27:04
of we already started working from the opposite
27:08
direction. Like students got a hold of it. Teachers
27:11
found out students were using it. Now teachers
27:13
are using it when really we should have started
27:16
with districts. understanding it so that that
27:19
could trickle down the opposite way. But what
27:22
if a district is going to build a roadmap and
27:25
set some things in place for their guidelines,
27:29
what's the first step or steps that you feel
27:31
they need to take to do that so that it's very
27:33
clear to the teachers and students? Where I've
27:37
seen the best success is when districts bring
27:39
in like their entire community. And what I mean
27:42
by that is I don't mean the entire community,
27:44
but I mean representatives from parents. teachers,
27:49
school committee members, students, right, who
27:53
are involved in the functioning of the school
27:56
so everyone has a voice. And when you can bring
27:58
people together, I think you get a sense of that
28:03
everyone has a stake in this. And this is the
28:05
first time as a side note where parents are gonna
28:07
have to be deeply involved in what their kids
28:10
are doing with technology. I think we've learned
28:12
some kind of lesson. with our lack of understanding
28:15
of social media. But schools and parents are
28:18
going to have to be on the same page when it
28:20
comes to what AI is, what it isn't, and how you
28:22
can use it. But when I've seen districts really
28:26
do well, it's when they've brought people together
28:28
to talk about this and to try things out. Don't
28:32
be afraid to pilot things in the beginning. And
28:34
when you call something a pilot, it means it
28:36
can stop and you can change course, right? and
28:39
start slowly, right? I said start with a student
28:41
handbook at the high school level. Don't start
28:44
with a school committee policy. School committee
28:46
policies typically last 10 or 20 years. This
28:49
is not that kind of thing right now. It's just
28:51
not. So one of the groups that you mentioned
28:55
there I found very intriguing. I want to turn
28:58
the conversation that way a little bit. And that's
29:01
parents and families. And I know recently it
29:05
was announced as a partnership between Day of
29:07
AI and Common Sense Media, working together to
29:12
create an AI literacy toolkit specifically targeted
29:15
towards parents and families. Can you spend a
29:18
little time talking about that? Yeah, so Common
29:22
Sense Media is a pretty well -known group that
29:24
seeks to keep kids safe in this new age of technology,
29:28
even long before AI was on the scene. And we
29:32
partnered with them because we recognized pretty
29:34
early on that there's this gulf between what
29:37
kids are doing and what parents think they're
29:39
doing. And Common Sense Media actually did a
29:41
study recently where they showed, I think it
29:44
was 70 plus percent of kids are using an AI companion
29:48
or its equivalent. But only 30 % of parents know
29:52
that their kids are using any kind of AI whatsoever.
29:55
So there's a real gulf in what's happening and
29:56
what parents think is happening. That's not parents'
29:59
fault. They just don't really have visibility
30:01
into what their kids are doing on their cell
30:03
phones all the time or on their laptops. But
30:06
we think you've got to cross that divide. And
30:09
so we created videos and toolkits to help parents
30:13
kind of explain what AI is so they have an understanding.
30:16
But then just to begin the conversation, with
30:19
their kids about limits and boundaries. I think
30:22
the best thing you can do if you're a parent
30:24
is to actually engage with your kid and say,
30:26
hey, I'm looking at this and trying to figure
30:29
it out myself. Because sometimes if kids think
30:31
they're running wild and running free, that's
30:34
not a good recipe. But if they know that their
30:36
parents are looking over their shoulder in a
30:38
metaphorical sense, then I think you're going
30:40
to have a better result overall. And kids ultimately
30:43
will appreciate that. So do you have any examples
30:47
of like the types of conversation starters that
30:49
could yeah, so well I mean if you go to our website
30:52
you can see all of it, but I like the videos
30:55
we created Where you know we actually lay out
30:59
some things stop give parents some guide questions
31:03
to use with their kids. We start the video back
31:06
up. We do it again. And so it's very interactive.
31:08
And sometimes schools have used these at parent
31:11
nights and things like that. So there's a wealth
31:15
of resources for parents to kind of get behind
31:19
the curtain here and see. everything, because
31:22
look, not all parents have a computer science
31:25
degree, right? Most parents, you know, they're
31:27
working all day and they need something that
31:29
they can access that makes sense to them. And
31:31
we try to make, you know, it pretty simplified,
31:35
understandable so that they can have coherent
31:37
conversations with their kids, which we think
31:40
is just critical in this day and age. And I think
31:43
it's kind of as well where, you know, l the parents
31:48
aren't all go computer science. And I t are the
31:52
kids. Um, even t you talked about, you kno immigrants,
31:56
but you know, that are still, you know, to pick
32:01
up technology. But to discuss different ways
32:09
in which you're using AI, whether for the student
32:11
it's in their classroom or whether, you know,
32:14
as a parent like AI. we've had the same routine
32:18
for dinners every night, every night, over and
32:20
over. It's just the cycle that repeats. But now,
32:23
hey, what if I give AI the opportunity to give
32:26
me some ideas to jazz up the types of dinners
32:29
that we have, right? And then, and I think then
32:31
in both cases, they're modeling for each other
32:34
ways that AI can effectively be used. And they
32:37
might spark ideas for different directions they
32:40
could go with them in their own circles. I think
32:43
that's absolutely right. I think anytime you
32:46
can give parents resources to help support them.
32:49
I mean, parents don't have to be computer science
32:51
experts, but they're experts in the most important
32:54
thing, being a parent. So they have the will
32:57
and the desire to make sure that their kids are
33:00
safe. And so just providing this information,
33:03
giving them those opportunities and ideas to
33:05
how to connect with their kids, how to connect
33:07
with their school, to make sure that everybody's
33:09
on the same page is gonna be incredibly helpful.
33:12
Yeah, and I think another key thing that you
33:14
brought up to that I would encourage. I think
33:18
any any administrator when they have their their
33:21
parent nights or their open houses is you know
33:24
what a great opportunity to do some sort of a
33:28
family AI event surrounding that and I and I
33:32
know you brought up resources and stuff on the
33:34
website and I think David and I will definitely
33:37
link those in the the descriptions that we have
33:40
and in the show notes that where they they can
33:42
go and they can find out more information about
33:44
how to get some of that started. Well, I think
33:47
that's absolutely right. And I think, you know,
33:49
parents should be OK saying to their kid, you
33:52
know, hey, what do you know about AI? Can you
33:54
teach me something about AI? I think about a
33:56
few years back when my son, who's more of a techie
33:59
than I am, was talking about the Boston Celtics
34:04
when they were in the finals for the NBA. And
34:06
I said, well, you know, I don't think artificial
34:09
intelligence is allowed to tell you who's going
34:12
to win the NBA Finals. And so we, I don't know
34:16
if it was Chad or Gemini, whatever we used, it
34:18
was like, who's going to win the NBA Finals?
34:20
And you know, we cannot offer that information.
34:23
We're not, that came back from the, and then
34:27
my son said, well, watch this, just for fun,
34:30
who's going to win the NBA Finals? And it was
34:32
Celtics and seven. So kids understand how to
34:36
get around this too, right? So let them share
34:38
some of their expertise. with parents, and that
34:41
can be a fun way to get the conversation started
34:43
as well. And could you talk a little bit about
34:47
PD approaches that you take? It sounds like it's
34:50
actually been kind of weaved through all the
34:53
conversation topics that we've had so far. It
34:55
seems like a lot of what you find important is
34:59
just trial and error, like having opportunities
35:02
to try things with no matter who you are. If
35:05
you're a parent or a student or whoever, there
35:07
should just be opportunities to try these things
35:11
to increase understanding. Is that accurate to
35:14
say? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we look
35:16
at different lenses for demonstrating to teachers
35:20
how this can be done, right? You can give every
35:23
teacher a bag of M &M's and have them make predictions.
35:26
Hey, does M &M's put the same amount of colors
35:29
in every bag? Is there one color that's more
35:32
prevalent than another color? What does chat
35:35
GPT say? And then you Get the information from
35:38
Chat GPT and compare that to the data that you
35:41
have with the teachers you're teaching that day,
35:44
right? We talked about the peanut butter and
35:45
jelly lesson. There are different tasks or activities
35:49
you can do with teachers to show them how to
35:52
infuse AI into their lessons. You want to teach
35:55
about the Sistine Chapel. Well, one of the things
35:58
to know about the Sistine Chapel is Michelangelo
36:00
was a bit of a rebel and used to insert self
36:03
-portraits into parts of the Sistine Chapel.
36:06
So you do an art Sistine Chapel activity, you
36:09
have Chat GPT via Dali do a self -portrait of
36:14
you, and then you free -hand draw your own self
36:18
-portrait and do a comparison of those two things.
36:21
There's just a thousand ways to start bringing
36:23
this into everyday lessons that you do. And I
36:28
think teachers appreciate that. I think we've
36:31
spent a lot of time over the last 30 years talking
36:33
about systems and structures, test scores and
36:36
accountability. All those things were important.
36:38
That was a structure we didn't have before we
36:40
needed to create. But I think teachers appreciate
36:43
the idea of we're going to get back to teaching.
36:46
And the fact that we could use AI to make my
36:48
life easier and to spruce up some of my lessons
36:51
is pretty fun and engaging. So this is the last
36:56
question for our lightning round. Cool, the lightning
36:59
round. Yeah, the lightning round is going to
37:02
be good. But one more question before that is
37:06
for everybody to increase their knowledge around
37:09
AI, AI literacy is always brought up and creating
37:14
understanding around these systems, how they
37:17
work, how you should use them. If you're looking
37:20
at a school district, or let's say it's one that
37:22
you just work with, What does success look like
37:25
with that? Let's you know, if you walk away from
37:28
a training that you just did What is going to
37:31
leave you feeling good about? That you know,
37:35
what does that school have to know or those teachers
37:37
or students have to know? About all the AI literacy
37:40
topics for you to feel good about your training
37:43
So I could probably spend five hours answering
37:46
this question, but I think the shorter answer
37:47
is they will take what they learn in the training
37:51
and start applying it in their classrooms, in
37:53
their lessons. And it doesn't have to be every
37:55
day all the time, but they're suddenly they're
37:58
open to this idea. They're trying things out
38:00
and they're sharing what they're doing with their
38:02
peers in the school. And that's what that's what
38:05
looks like success for me. I think we're at the
38:08
first inning of this nine inning ball game. And
38:11
I think it's going to be important more so to
38:14
get people to start. and to recognize that things
38:18
will get better over time. And I told you guys,
38:20
I'm so old. I remember when the internet first
38:23
came, I think it was in my 20s, and it started
38:25
as dial -up with AOL, and it was very slow and
38:28
clunky. And it got better, significantly better
38:30
over time. I think AI is gonna be the same. It's
38:33
clunky, it makes mistakes. In classrooms, we're
38:36
gonna have to try some things out, but we're
38:38
gonna get better over time if we continue to
38:41
kind of workshop this stuff and share it with
38:43
each other. Yeah, and I think that's essential
38:47
I think the most Like I would agree with what
38:51
you said when I've gone out and I've done trainings
38:53
recently with groups about AI and I and I give
38:56
them a chance to try something and Then it's
39:00
all these elbows of teachers. Hey, look what
39:02
I just did Look what I was just able to make
39:04
look at how this could really affect what I'm
39:07
doing And I think that's the thing that really
39:08
kind of then feeds the others to like, oh, I
39:11
want to try it. And then they're going to think
39:13
of a way to adapt and adjust and find an even
39:17
more creative, effective way to make it work.
39:20
Well, you guys know as trainers, I think, you
39:23
know, one sign that things are going well with
39:25
your training is they want your slides and they
39:27
want to steal your activities and materials.
39:29
Those are, you know, those are two signs that
39:31
like, oh, they want to bring this back to their
39:32
school. Well, to Day of AI's credit, there has
39:36
been many things that I have liberated. From
39:40
some of the webinars and the presentations that
39:42
I've seen as well, too So I think it's all it
39:45
all is to the benefit of everyone to be able
39:47
to share it to share that out As widely as possible.
39:52
Well, it's all free All you have to do is go
39:53
on our website and I think you just plug in your
39:55
email address and we don't spam people but Takes
39:57
you behind the curtain. There's a lot of free
39:59
materials for people Awesome. Well, okay. We're
40:03
moving into the kind of that last part here of
40:06
the of the conversation where we get to find
40:08
out a little bit more um about Jeff and what
40:11
makes him tick a little bit here um and so we
40:14
have uh six questions that are part of our lightning
40:16
round here for today and there's uh you know
40:19
you can feel free to just give short little quick
40:21
blurbs or if it's something that really is uh
40:25
one of those passion points for you you want
40:26
to elaborate you can do that too it's it's entirely
40:30
up to you but uh one that we ask every time of
40:33
every guest is What's your walk -up song? What
40:36
track motivates you and keeps you going? Yeah,
40:41
I'm going to go with Shipping Up to Boston from
40:44
the Dropkick Murphys. I live in Boston. My name's
40:47
Riley. I'm obviously very Irish, and that's got
40:51
resonance with me for a variety of reasons. Perfect.
40:54
That's a good one. Next one is to start your
40:59
or to power up your day, coffee, tea, or something
41:01
else. Coca -Cola classic, my friend, and not
41:05
the new Coke that they introduced 20 years ago
41:07
that they discontinued, the old high test. All
41:10
right. Perfect. You know, in all of the different
41:14
roles that you've had, you know, from special
41:17
ed teacher, building administrator, superintendent,
41:21
commissioner of education, what's one leadership
41:24
lesson that you keep coming back to? Well, I
41:28
think it's... what I spoke about earlier, where
41:31
I know that people think this technology is going
41:32
to replace humans, but I believe everything in
41:35
education is about personal relationships. Kids
41:37
have amazing BS detectors. They know if you care
41:40
about them or not. And that doesn't mean you
41:41
have to be their best friend. Caring about them,
41:44
it means teaching them and they understand intuitively
41:47
whether you're a teacher or not. So I think that
41:49
would be, if I'm talking to new teachers, that's
41:52
my number one lesson is do your job, do it well.
41:55
Kids are always watching. What's one tech trend
42:00
that educators should stop obsessing over? Plagiarism,
42:05
please. Listen, you guys probably have seen this.
42:12
And I understand English department heads and
42:14
teachers are upset. But we've been through this
42:17
stuff before. We can figure this out. AI is so
42:20
much more than just plagiarism. Is it a valid
42:22
concern? It absolutely is. And we have to figure
42:25
out how to address it. I would also ask people
42:29
to be open to what AI can do in the positive
42:33
and not just always focus on the negative. It's
42:40
interesting you say that because we just had
42:42
a guest on in another show that will be released
42:45
right before this one who called that same thing
42:47
dueling AIs where you have academic integrity
42:51
and artificial intelligence and do they have
42:53
to be in a constant conflict with each other
42:56
and how can we make it so that they're mutually
42:58
heading the same directions? So that's, yeah,
43:02
I think you're right on track with that. How
43:05
about like a hobby or an activity that you do
43:08
that just kind of helps keep you grounded when
43:10
you don't need to deal with the pressures of
43:13
the AI world? I'm not sure I have a lot of hobbies
43:18
or activities. I would say I enjoyed always watching
43:22
my kids sports. I have one daughter still in
43:24
college and she plays softball. So I go off to
43:27
Rhode Island where she's in school and go to
43:29
watch her on weekends to play softball. Right.
43:35
Which fictional robot or AI character would you
43:38
trust to run a school for a week? I would say.
43:43
data from Star Trek Next Generation. Although
43:47
I can't remember the robot's name that used to
43:49
say, Danger, Will Robinson. What was that one?
43:52
That would be funny. Oh, I've seen that Netflix
43:56
on Netflix before your time, kids. Yeah. What
44:01
was the name of that one? Yeah. Awesome. Well,
44:06
Jeff, we really appreciated having you on the
44:08
show. I think we've shared a lot of great insights,
44:10
you know, but I know that you have things that
44:13
are coming up and things that are going on with
44:16
Day of AI. So before we let you go, what would
44:20
you like to promote? What would you like to say?
44:22
And we'll make sure to link anything in the description
44:25
as well. Yeah. So this year we're kind of on
44:27
our Day of AI USA tour. where we're doing kind
44:31
of virtual trainings for free for people. And
44:33
we're also going at different places around the
44:34
country to train in person as well. That culminates
44:38
next July, this coming July with the 250th anniversary
44:43
of the country back here in Boston, where we're
44:46
gonna have kids showing leadership on all things
44:48
AI. And so they're gonna create... solves for
44:53
how to use AI to make a better world. They're
44:55
going to show us how to use AI in the arts. But
44:58
the one I'm most excited about, I think, is we
45:01
are having two kids from every state are going
45:04
to be flown in to serve as student senators.
45:07
They're going to go to the Edward M. Kennedy
45:08
Institute, which is an exact replica of the US
45:11
Senate, and create a national student AI policy.
45:16
And they're going to do that long before we grownups
45:19
have a national AI policy. So I think leaning
45:22
on student leadership is going to be important.
45:25
That sounds like a great experience. And if people
45:27
want to reach out for more information from you
45:29
or from Day of AI, is it best to go to the website
45:33
or do you have like an email or anything? People
45:37
can always reach me at jeff at day of AI dot
45:41
org, but. I would recommend people go to the
45:43
website, sign up, and then get behind the curtain
45:45
and see all the stuff we have going on. Awesome.
45:49
Well, thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff. Thank you guys.
45:52
Appreciate the time. Thanks for listening to
46:01
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46:04
Head over to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials,
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next time, keep exploring, keep innovating and
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keep integrating this.