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The Mysterious Murder Case You May Have Never Heard Of · The conspiracy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime, conspiracy, cults, cold cases, and murder. All things I
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: love to consume. And you like to consume them as well.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to consume you, even though you do
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: look delicious. Anyway, today we are going to be talking
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: about the unsolved murder of Jeanette De Palma, one of
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the most bizarre and controversial homicide cases on record. And
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this case today because it
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: is widely unknown outside of the state of New Jersey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: New Jersey, where Jay is from. Now, whether that was
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: by design or mere coincidence, we'll never really know for sure.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: But this case is full of theories and rumored cover-ups.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a big one, so buckle up, alright?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: If you were to believe one side, Jeanette would have
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: been one of the first victims of a ritual occult
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: murder in suburban America. And if you were to believe
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the other side, this case could be the earliest example
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of Satanic Panic. And for those of you who don't know,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Satanic Panic is a moral panic consisting of over 12,000
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: unsubstantiated cases of Satanic ritual abuse. starting in the United
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: States in the 1980s, spreading throughout many parts of the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: world through the 1990s and persisting to today. So let's
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: get into the case of Jeanette de Palma. Let's unbuckle
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: our seat belts, go Mach 5 down the highway, slam
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: on the brakes, and deep dive through this windshield into
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: this bizarre unsolved murder case together. So let's start at
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the beginning and get to know the teenager who would
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: be come to known as the girl on the mountain.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Jeanette De Palma was born August 3rd, 1956 in Jersey City,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: New Jersey by Florence and Salvador De Palma. Florence was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a homemaker and Salvador owned and operated a D &
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: D auto salvage in Newark, New Jersey. Jeanette was the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: seventh child born in a large Italian Catholic family.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Damn, that's a lot of kids. And that wouldn't be all.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: She would have a younger sister who would make the
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: eighth child born the year following. And they would settle
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: in Springfield, New Jersey in a large house at 4
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Clearview Drive.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And they bought it at the price.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Of $ 65, 000, which in today's money would be $ 500, 000.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite expensive.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And this family was looking forward to settling down and
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: growing roots within this community. Located in the heart of
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Union City, the township of Springfield was formed in the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: late 18th century, with its roots heavily planted in the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: American Revolution.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Whatever that means.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: And several decades later, Springfield would go from being a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: small town to the very affluent hustle and bustle town
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it is to this day. So the DePalmas were known
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: as a more well-off family, living in a new affluent
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: suburban area of Springfield called Springfield Top. But they were
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: known around the community to have what they called strange behavior.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna describe that to you right now and you
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: could be the judge of that. Several residents recall the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: family never leaving their home, and when they did, they
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: would not talk to their neighbors.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: That's me. Am I strange? Am I strange? Yeah, probably.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But Springfield was one of those really close-knit communities where
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: all the neighbors talked to each other. They really liked
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to gossip. Through this whole thing, you're gonna see how
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: much these people gossip. So for a family not to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: communicate with the rest of the community, it started to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: draw suspicious eyes. The De Palmas were also known to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: get into fights constantly. Salvador and Florence, especially, the parents.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And their neighbors, being nosy as hell, would always call
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the cops on them, and they would go to the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: De Palmas' house. But every time the cops would show
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: up to their house, Florence would just shoo them away
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and say, nothing's wrong. Salvador De Palma, the father, was
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: also rumored to be part of the Mafia... uh-oh, the mob,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: if you will, so were other residents of Springfield Top,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: but it was never confirmed, so we don't actually know that.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It could just be.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Gossip, but this town was just full of gossip, so
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it's hard to take anything that couldn't be proven very seriously,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: but it just.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Adds to the mystery stew that we're brewing, man, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: this is a big f * * * ing stew.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Once Jeanette grew into adolescence, she found herself the topic
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: of the local gossip. She was rumored to be a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: wild child. Margaret Bandrowski- that's a hard name margaret br
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: she's margaret bandrowski there we go a former teacher at
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: jeanette's high school would recall quote unquote judging by what
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: i heard from the other students she was a little
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: on the wild side i don't know the specifics on
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: what wild meant necessarily for her but in those days
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: it usually meant that she hung around boys maybe did
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: some drugs or smoked stuff like that. This is in Jersey,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to be doing like a poor Jersey
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: accent for all of, for all of these quote unquote,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of quotes, but this, this just
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like a regular ass teenager to me and probably
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: to all of you as well. That's like mild rebellious teenage,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: teenage behavior. But in this time, you know, the drugs
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff was looked down on, but
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: she wasn't even consuming any hard drugs.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: We'll get into that a little bit more.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Hello. I hope you're enjoying the deep dive so far,
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• 6:28
  Speaker 1: let's get back Some other local residents who were children
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: at the time recall hearing about Jeanette being very promiscuous
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: around town. And Officer Kish, somebody who worked on Jeanette's case,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: would recall all the other officers at the station calling
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: her a party girl because of one time they caught
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: her in the back of a guy's car at a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: park and pulled her out. Which, like, who hasn't been
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: pulled out of the back of a guy's car just
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: partying in the park, you know?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We've all been there, okay? Except for me, I'm abstinent.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: But Jeanette's best friend at the time would say that
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that wasn't even Jeanette at the back of that guy's car.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: She was actually with her at the time. So Kish's
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: recollection was just false. So the police are already making
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: up stuff.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: The pot's doing its doing.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: In later interviews with Officer Donald Schwart, he said he
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: wasn't able to recollect ever even hearing about Jeanette before
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: she was murdered or anybody calling her a party girl
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in the precinct.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: So it was really just Kish.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: It's my understanding that Kish really just liked the limelight
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: during this case. He found that he could say anything
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: and and be in the spotlight, so I feel like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be hearing a lot of bullshit from him,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: but you could be the judge of that. But besides
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the allegations that were coming from that one officer, Jeanette's
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: friends recall her not being perfect by any means. She
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: would hang out with boys, she would smoke cigarettes, She
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: would sneak out just like any other teenager would at
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the time. And it would be heavily implied that she
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: barely ever drank, maybe once or twice. And she never
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: did hard drugs because she was very, very against that.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: She would, from time to time, smoke the devil's lettuce.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: But that was very, very popular at the time for
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: teenagers to be doing. And her friend said that she
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: would never sought it out. She would just do it
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: if she happened to be at a party where they
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: were doing it. Her friend Grace DeMuro would describe her as,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: When you would start to talk to her, she was
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: so sweet and honest and funny. Some of the other
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: girls in our grade weren't so friendly to her because
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of that. But these girls wouldn't make an effort to
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: be friendly with her. If Jeanette tried to be friendly
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: with them, they would just ignore her.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Bitches.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: She didn't say that last part, but she said the rest.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: And a couple of her other fellow students at Dayton
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: High would say, She never talked much and you had
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to lead the conversation. And if she did talk, it
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: was only about her respective classes.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: This is one of the.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Students talking, by the way. So she was, she was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a bit of a recluse. She was like an introvert.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: She kept to herself. She only talked if she needed to.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: So I feel like people really, there was a lot
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: of mystery behind Jeanette and it just put people off.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Besides her friends, of course. But her friends' recollections of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: her just seemed to portray Jeanette De Palma as an
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: average rebellious teenager.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Certainly by today's standards.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, kids are doing- nowadays, freaking eating Tide Pods
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and saying f * * * you.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: To their mom, all right? They're f * * *
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: ing crazy nowadays.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But it was also at this time where Jeanette began
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: telling her peers and her superiors that she wanted to
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: start devoting her life to Christ. And her family was
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: very religious, and she was religious, but she noticed she
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: was starting to veer off of this Christian path, and
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: she wanted to get back to that. So she openly
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: said that she wanted to turn a new leaf on
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: her life. But sadly it was at this time where
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: her life would come to an end on the afternoon
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: of Monday, August 7th, 1972. So let's talk about the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: day of her disappearance. Like many other facets of Jeanette's life,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the details of her final day on earth are pretty
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: vague with several differing accounts of what happened, so we're
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: going to go through all of them. So according to
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Jeanette's cousin, Lisa Grulich, the morning of her disappearance started
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: out pretty normal and then went downhill pretty quickly. Lisa
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: recalled that she was told by her parents, Jeanette's aunt
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and uncle, that Jeanette came downstairs from her room for
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: breakfast that morning. And that's when she was told by
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: her parents and her auntie and uncle that her cousin
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: had gone missing. Her cousin being Lisa, who is telling
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: us about the recollection. Lisa had been missing for quite
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: some time at this point. Lisa explains that she had
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: run away for about a month. At this point, an
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: extended family didn't know anything about it. Only her immediate
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: family knew about it. So it was this morning where
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: they chose to tell Jeanette and the rest of their family.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Lisa obviously came back from running away because we're getting
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: this recollection. But at the time, Jeanette was absolutely pissed
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: in her own right that her aunt and uncle didn't
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: tell her about this previously because it had already been
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a month.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: What the f * * *?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I'd be f * * * ed. pissed if my
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: mom didn't tell me about like my sister or even
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: my cousin going missing. Like, I don't even understand that. Anyway,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: so being mad, she would leave the kitchen and go
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: up to her room. Gail, one of Jeanette's other friends,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: would recollect that Jeanette called her right after this and
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Jeanette would say to her that she wouldn't be able
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: to come over anymore because her mother has her scrubbing
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the bathrooms all day. And Gail would be pissed because
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: she's like, you're.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Bailing on me, man.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: They were supposed to meet up with two other guys
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and Gail was able to guilt trip her into coming.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So Jeanette felt bad and she said, fine, fine, I'll come.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I'll just come up with an excuse and I'll hitchhike
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: over to your house. But this would be the last
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: time Gail would ever hear from her friend.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So after her.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Phone call with Gail, Jeanette's sister, Cindy, recalled Jeanette coming
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to ask her if she wanted to hang out with
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Gail and the two boys. But Cindy denied because she
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: was waiting at home for a phone call from her
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: boyfriend because she had recently got into a fight with him.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And she regrets that decision to this day. But Gayle
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: would later contradict Cindy's claim because when Jeanette asked Cindy
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to come hang out with Gayle and these two boys,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Jeanette said that her boyfriend Tommy would be there, and
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that she'd like Cindy to meet him, because she hadn't
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: met him yet. And Gail would say that Jeanette didn't
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: know anybody named Tommy, and the only Tommy that Jeanette
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: did know was Gail's boyfriend. I don't know what to
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: think about that. But other friends of Jeanette would say
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: that she did have a boyfriend at the time, but
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: since he lived in a different area, nobody.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Knew his name.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So maybe it was Tommy, we don't really know. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Jeanette would tell her parents that she had a shift
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: at her job at Brooke's department store later that night,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: so she had to go. But police and press would
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: find out later that Jeanette actually never had a job
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: at this book department. So we have to assume that
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: she made up the fact that she had a job here,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and she probably did just to use it as an
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: excuse so she could go out and hang out with
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: friends or do whatever she wanted without her parents even
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: asking about it. And her friends would confirm also that
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: she never had a job at this store. But before
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Jeanette would leave the house to hitchhike, she would call
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: one more friend to ask to join her, but her
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: friend's mother would say no. So Jeanette would hang up
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the phone and tell her mother she was gonna go
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: to Summit Station to catch a ride to her shift.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And Jeanette's mother, Florence, would say goodbye, not knowing that
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Jeanette was actually planning on hitchhiking to Gail's house and
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: not knowing she would never see her daughter ever again.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: After Jeanette left her home, we don't know much detail
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of what happened next. We only know she made a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: pit stop at another friend's house, Donna Blattis. Supposedly, Donna
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: constantly had.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Parties at her house. She was the party house.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But although not confirmed by literally anyone that there was
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a party happening that night, rumors already started to spread
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that Jeanette might have OD'd at that party and the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: people at the party might have... hid her body where
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it ended up being found. But that was debunked because
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: there was no drugs found in her system. We'll get
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: into that later as well. But it's just the start
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: of the stew of the gossip in the town. So
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: this would be the last place that Jeanette was seen
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: because Donna Blattis would say that she left and she
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: never saw her again. either. So sometime late in the evening,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Florence and Salvador began to feel uneasy about Jeanette not
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: coming home yet because it got late. She would always
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: call to tell them. So it was not long after
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the De Palmas started calling everybody they knew to ask
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: if they had seen Jeanette. And not a single person
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that they called said that they heard from Jeanette or
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: had seen Jeanette that night. So naturally, fearing the worst
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: for their daughter, they would call the Springfield Police Department.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And boy, do I got a Bone of pick with you,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Springfield Police Department. Alright, we'll talk about it. Alright, we'll
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: get to that. But they would be met with frustration
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: after calling the department because they wouldn't be able to
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: do anything until she was missing for over 24 hours,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: which was common Back then, it's not common now. They
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: would actually look for somebody nowadays. But the police officer
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: that took the original call said that the De Palmas
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: just said that she ran away. So the police weren't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: taking it as seriously. But the De Palmas would deny
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that claim and said that they explicitly said that she
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: did not come home from work and she did not
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: run away. But soon the rumors would spread that she
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: was just a runaway. So the De Palmas would be
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: left worrying all night and for the days to come
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: because Jeanette never returned home.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Home.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So let's jump ahead to what we know now what happened.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So on September 19th, 1972, a 44-year-old patrol officer and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: veteran by the name of Donald Schwart had just got
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: back from a vacation with his family two days prior.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: But Donald was ready to get settled back into his
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: routine because he loved his job at the Springfield Police Department.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So Donald did what he did every morning before work.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: He would go downstairs, eat breakfast with his family, get
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: dressed for work, and would take the three-minute walk down
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to the department with his seven children in tow on
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: their way to school. Why does everybody have seven kids.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: In this town? What the f * * * is
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: going on? Oh, they're all Catholics. That's why.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: After Donald got into work that day, he was assigned
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to patrol the north side of the township, firing up
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: his Plymouth Fury patrol car. Schwart prepared for what he
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: thought was just gonna be another regular.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Day on the job. Little did he know.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So Schwart was driving up and down the streets of
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: sleepy Springfield as a dog with something in its mouth
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: was weaving through the labyrinth of trees bordering the nearby
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Hoodale Quarry. The dog would run back to his owner's
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: home with his prize in his mouth and go to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the Baltusrol Gardens apartment complex.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: On Wilson Road.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: So he would get there, loosen his bite over by
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the grass by one of the rear entrances, and drop
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: what he had in his mouth. And soon after his
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: owner would call him where they were out of sight,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the dog would run over and go inside the apartment complex.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And very shortly after, the superintendent of the apartment building
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: would walk outside, look down, and to her horror, see
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: what was.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: At her feet. It was a human arm.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: So Schwart would get the call about the arm shortly after,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: thinking this woman was just a victim of a harmless prank, saying, quote-unquote,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I figured it was gonna be a mannequin's arm because
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: this lady was being harassed by a few kids that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: lived in the apartment complex. They would do things like
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: throw trash all over her lawn. They were just awful
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to her. So when I got the call, I figured
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it was just those kids again. And maybe they poured
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: some ketchup on a mannequin or something. I don't know.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: That was a quote. That was a quote from Donald Schwert. Which, fair.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: But Schwert would be the first on the scene and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: walk up to the building where the arm was laying
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: in the grass and would.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Say to himself, This.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: This is human.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: No shit, Donald. No fucking shit. He literally said that
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: in the book I read. That's what he said. He
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: said that he said that to himself.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: We like Donald. Donald's okay. So Donald would get his
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: camera and take pictures and call for backup. He would say,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, You better send detectives up.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: We got an arm here and it's no joke.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: After the discovery of the arm, all hands were on
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: deck and a search party was sent out immediately. Schwartz's
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: shift would end shortly after. He would go home and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: change and go out to join the search party as well.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: And it was not long after that he himself would
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: make the gruesome discovery in the quarry that was being
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: laid out for the Interstate 78. It was the upper
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: portion of the arm he had found earlier. at the
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: apartment complex. It was quickly assumed that it must have
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: fallen off of the arm naturally while the dog was
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: carrying it back home. So they assumed that the body
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: probably wasn't that far away and they would be right.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So all the officers began to sweep the entire surrounding
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: area that was absolutely covered in brush and it was
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: just a really difficult terrain to trek through. Some even
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: had machetes and were chopping down at the forest to
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: get through it. Schwart and his fellow officer Calabri noticed
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: a lofty bluff overlooking the quarry floor, otherwise known as
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the devil's teeth. and being determined to find the body,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: they would ascend the extremely large, dense, and steep hill
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: as fast as they could. Schwart would be the first
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: one at the top of the mountain and would be
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: met immediately with the horrendous display of Jeanette de Palma's
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: decomposing body. Her body was lying face down on a
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: flat at the very top of the hill. Her skin
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: was a grayish brown, kind of like leather, and she
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: was wearing a blue t-shirt and pants, the same outfit
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: she left in when she disappeared. But the body had
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: no socks and no shoes. There were flip-flops found though
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: very close to the body and a pocketbook on the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: ground as well. She was difficult to identify at first
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: because animals had eaten a lot of the flesh around
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: her face and around her feet and ankles as well.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And above her head was a wooden cross made of
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: two sticks and a semicircle of stones made around her head,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: kind of in the shape of a halo. Schwart would
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: stare at her body in the odd arrangement above her
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: head and would be broken from concentration from a fellow
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: officer saying to him, Dawn, this looks like witchcraft. So,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the police would search the area more for any other
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: evidence that would allude to foul play or slewer slide,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: but they would inevitably find nothing. Jeanette's body would have
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to be lifted and brought down by an 85-foot firetruck
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: ladder from the cliffside, because it was way too steep
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and dense to carry the body in any other direction
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: on Devil's Teeth. So, it just kind of makes you
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: think how the body.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Got up there accidentally.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: To begin with, or if it happened in that location,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: or there's a lot of questions and not a whole
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: lot of answers, but we'll get into all the theories.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So once her body was taken down, she would be
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: sent to the coroner where her family dentist would meet
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the coroner and the body there and make the determination
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that it was in fact, Jeanette De Palma. The coroner
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: on the other hand would end up with more questions
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: than answers. He would discover that there was no initial
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: markings indicating bullet wounds, stab wounds, or even blunt force
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: trauma like broken bones or fractures. So he would end
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: up sending Jeanette's body to the local hospital to get
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: x-rays to make sure, and they would come back with
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the same result.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: But the coroner, Dr.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Edinburgh, at the Sullivan Funeral Home, had a reputation of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: botching autopsies.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Oopsie.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: According to Ed Kish, the local officer that likes to
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: make shit up a little bit, maybe not all shit,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I'm just, that's my own opinion, okay?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I have to say that's my own opinion. The local
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: officer at Springfield would exclaim, quote-unquote.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Bernie Edinburgh was not a trained pathologist, okay? The guy
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: was a freaking physician. You know how Bernie Edinburgh got
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: his job? Political appointment. He was not competent enough, as
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, to have been conducting forensic autopsies, alright?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact that he botched the autopsy
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: of another high-profile murder victim that was found in Springfield Top, alright?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: And he was referring to Beverly Manoff. These are all
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: real quotes, by the way. These are real quotes that
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: are actually said by these people.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I just need to iterate that because they're just kind
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: of all hilarious. I'm going to be honest.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: But yes, he was referring to another high-profile case, which
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: was Beverly Manoff, the wife of Yale Manoff, a Union
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: County lawyer, who was found beaten to death in her
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: bedroom after an assumed robbery. So after the x-rays, Edinburgh
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: would examine the body again and determine, while there was
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: no official cause of death, it was possible that Jeanette
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: died via strangulation. And this determination was eventually leaked to
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the press. And in the mind of the Springfield residents,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Jeanette de Palma was now being considered a victim of homicide.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Kish would go on to say again, quote-unquote... Edinburgh never
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: came up with the specific cause of death. There are
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: rumors as far as any of that is concerned. Edinburgh
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: could not positively determine that she was strangled or that
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: she was beaten or shot. Those were things that I
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: believe were not able to be proven by the pathological examination.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So what we had was a suspicious death because of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: where the body was ultimately located.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Which, you know, fair enough. Kish sometimes says things that
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: make sense.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So we have an incompetent coroner, some rightfully paranoid cops,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and some suspicious happenings going on already.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But wait, there's much, much, much, much, much more.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So after the autopsy was done, Jeanette's dried and decaying
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: clothing was packed up and sent off back to the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Springfield Police Department. And for some bizarre, very unprofessional reason,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: they took the clothes and hung them.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Up outside over a large AC unit on the side
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: of the building for four.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Days, by the way.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: What the f * * *?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Like, I know this is the 70s, but that's like
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: some 1800s shit. The retired Springfield lieutenant Peter Hammer recalled
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that incident with a laugh and said, quote-unquote, You were
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: lucky if half of us could read a right back then,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: to be honest. What? What?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Again, this is the 1970s. This isn't the 1400s. Everyone
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: can read and write. What are you talking about? What
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: are you talking about?
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine a cop coming up to you in
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: 1970 after pulling you over and just being like, license
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and registration?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, sorry, okay. Do you know how fast you
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: were going, Robert? It's Randy?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: No, I don't. How fast was I going? I was
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: kind of hoping you would know because... I can't read, Ronald.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: It's Randy. All right, you're under arrest for being a smartass, okay?
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Anyway, after the clothes were hung up and obviously contaminated,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: they were boxed up with the notebook as well and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: sent off to a crime lab for further forensic testing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: But there would be nothing further discovered on the clothing.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Shocking.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So as the investigation was still going on, the press
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: would get a hold of the information about the strange
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: ritualistic-like arrangements around Jeanette's body when it was found. And
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this is when rumors and speculation about witchcraft and Satanism
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: being involved in this case was spread. An article appeared
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: on September 19th, 1972 in the Elizabeth Daily Journal titled.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: As, Girl Sacrificed in Witch Rite! It's a bit aggressive.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: And would make the following claim.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Investigation into the death of 16-year-old Jeanette DePalma is focusing
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: on elements of black witchcraft and Satan worship. A review
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of death scene photos, according to reports, is leading authorities
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to believe the girl's death may have been in the
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: nature of a sacrifice. Pieces of wood, at first thought
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: to be at the scene by chance, are now seen
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: as symbols. Detectives throughout Union County have been alerted to
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the possibility that a cult or cult member played.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: A part in the death.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: This article would be the first publication to link Jeanette's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: death with witchcraft or Satanism and would immediately cause panic
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and an overwhelming sense of dread throughout the entire community.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Some believed it was just media sensationalism, but a lot
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: believed that it was Bible truth and began locking their
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: doors for the first time. I love that that was
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: just like not a thing back then, like locking your doors.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Like I can't even imagine that like nowadays or even
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: back then. Can you imagine you're just in bed with
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: your husband and you hear a noise and you're just like, Tony.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Did you hear that? Tony, wake up!
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: What? What?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: There's somebody downstairs. I heard somebody. What do you mean?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: The door was closed. Who could get in? Yeah, but maybe,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: just maybe, we should start using those doohickeys by the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: door handle that make it stay closed no matter what,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: even if somebody tries to open it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: That is f- Insane, Maria. What a stupid f *
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: * * ing idea. Oh, there was a man in.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Our doorway who's about to kill us.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: See? This is what I'm talking about.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So while it was obvious that no two people agreed
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: on what was and was not found by Jeanette's body,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: numerous occult historians happened to agree on one matter. The
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: items reported to be arranged around the corpse, while certainly
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: very strange, were not satanic or related to Wicca or
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: witchcraft in any way. Dr. Corey, a professor of history
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: at the College of Charleston and renowned expert in the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: field of witchcraft.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: How do you become that? That sounds kind of badass,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to be honest. Said this, quote unquote.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: This seems like media sensationalism to me. The early 1970s
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: was a time of media concern with the satanic hippie cults.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I think this is a case of media jumping to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: conclusions to sell papers amid the concern with satanic cults
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that marked the era. Which... Fair enough, you know? But
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: we have more to talk about on this subject. But
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: what he said had a lot of merit at the time.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Because this was a time when satanic panic was very prevalent.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Whether it was the Manson family getting convicted for their
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: crimes a year previous, or books like The Satanic Cellar,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: a memoir of a former satanic cult member coming out
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: with his book, or movies like The Exorcist coming out.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: People and the media were very paranoid and saw... the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: potential in sensationalizing crimes in this manner back then, even
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: if there was little to no evidence proving it. One
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of the main reasons why the ritualistic witch sacrifice allegations
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: really came to head was because of a tragic event
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: that happened only nine months earlier. John List made national
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: headlines after murdering his entire family and completely vanishing into
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the ether. He was a 46-year-old accountant who lived nearby
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Westfield in a Victorian mansion with 19 rooms.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's a lot of rooms. What do you
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: even need those rooms for? He didn't have that big
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: of a family. There was three kids and one wife
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and one mother. Sorry, I just.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Anyway, this mansion was dubbed the Breeze Knoll and sat
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: only three miles away from the De Palma residence. And
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the List family from the outside looked very well off.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and affluent, but they had a ton of troubles in
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the home. John, for example, had become jobless for months,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: but would put on his work clothes and pretend to
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: go to work for months and convince his family that
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: he still had a job, but he would just go
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to the bus station and read and then come home
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: later to act like he was at work all day.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: But he was, he was embarrassed of this fact, so
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to tell his family that. On top
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: of that, John's wife, was extremely sick. She was afflicted
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: with syphilis from a previous marriage and had lost sight
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: in one eye and was just basically bedridden. And on
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: top of that, John was growing concerned about his eldest daughter, Patricia.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: 16-year-old Patricia was becoming obsessed with the occult and with
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the theater, which is less of the problem, but John
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: didn't like either. John was a very stern Christian man,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and with his daughter Patricia now identifying herself as a
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: witch was simply too much for him. He would catch
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: her using Ouija boards regularly with her friends, and then
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: he found out that she was telling her peers and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: her teachers that she was a witch and part of
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a local coven of witches who practice sex.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Satanism, fine.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I just skipped school once in a while and went
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: to Domino's, but you know, but joining a coven and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: becoming a witch sounds pretty cool.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding, by the way.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Friends recall Patricia mentioning a secret altar located somewhere in Westfield.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And besides her constant ramblings about witchcraft, and the devil.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: She also spoke to her drama coach specifically how she
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: thought her father was planning on murdering her entire family.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: She would even ask her drama coach to come by
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: that evening when she did tell him to maybe talk
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to her father and just get to know more about
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the situation and talk him down because she didn't know
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: who else to go to. But the drama coach would
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: end up having something come up and he wouldn't be
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: able to make it that night and that just happened
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to be the night where John List died. would murder
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: his entire family. So on November 9th, 1972, John would
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: shoot all of his family members in the back of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the head and drag them all into the ballroom in
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: his mansion, besides his mother, who he said was too
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: heavy to drag to the ballroom. And we know this
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: because he claimed it in letters he left for the
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: police after he vanished. And the letters are crazy and
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: very long, so I won't read the whole thing. But
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: if you would like to read them, I'll put them
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: up on screen and you can read them yourself. But
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: if you want the Cliff Notes version, I'll give that
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: to you right now. So basically, the letter said that
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: he couldn't make enough money to support his family any
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and he was worried that Patricia was becoming increasingly involved
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: in the occult and with acting and was worried she
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: would walk away from her Christian values. And his wife
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: was becoming too sick to attend church so he thought
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that would affect his other children and would make them
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: not want to attend church either, then affecting their Christianity
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and their ability to get into heaven. And then he
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: rambles on about how to deal with all of their
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: possessions and how to deal with the bodies that he
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: left for the police to find as well. where to
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: bury them, whether to cremate them or not, etc. It's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: some crazy shit. And John would just vanish from thin air.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: And he would soon become one of the most wanted
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: men in America. And he was gone for a long time,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: but was found in 1989 in Colorado. And he would
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: be tried and sentenced to life in prison and die
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: in prison in 2008. Good.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: You're... That's crazy. That's crazy.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Because essentially he wanted his whole family to be able
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to make it to heaven because he thought that they
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: wouldn't make it to heaven if he continued on the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: route that he was on with his life. Which is,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's a terrible human being, but it's also just...
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: incredibly sad, you know? So it's just a terrible, terrible
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: crime that happened. So how did all this connect with
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Jeanette's murder? Well, while Patricia's father, John, would disappear into
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: thin air at the time, the ghost of the occult-loving
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Patricia would loom over the Union County for years to come.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Memories of the self-proclaimed witches' supposed involvement with a teenage
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: coven of devil worshipers would lead many to wonder if
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the same group of kids maybe murdered Jeanette as well
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: as a sacrifice. It's believed that the Westfield police and
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the media tapped into this theory and kind of just
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: ran with it and exploited it with articles claiming that
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: there were connections within both murders saying the bodies in
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the list home were laid out the exact same as
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Jeanette's body was found and that symbols at Jeanette's crime
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: scene were similar to symbols that were found at the
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: List family crime scene, but not all of them are
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: really vague, but it didn't really matter because what the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: press had done had already done damage to the community.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And everyone just assumed now that it was the work
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: of the occult and that witches had murdered Jeanette and
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: their local Reverend James Tate was no help, no help
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: at all with easing their minds. He grabbed this case
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and he put it on his back and he ran
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: with it man freaking pastors and call they're basically cult
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: leaders i'm they're not they're not but some of them
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: are some of them are okay examples he would basically
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: bask in this limelight adding on to the theories that
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the police were giving and that the press were giving
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and he would just completely lean into the fact that
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: this was the work of satan and his assembly would
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: fully give in to everything that he was saying And
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: by doing this, he gained popularity and a lot more
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: people joined his assembly as well. And he became kind
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: of like a local celebrity. It sounds a bit culty
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to me, just saying. And on September 30th, 1972, police
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: would bring a real witch, that they thought, to the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: top of Devil's Teeth. This bitch was just a local
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: school teacher that was just like, hey, yeah, I'm a witch.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I want to be involved. I want the spotlight. That's
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: my interpretation because this chick just came out of nowhere
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and it's like, I'm a witch.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Let me solve this case.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: So they took her to the top of the mountain
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to basically examine the area around the occult symbols. Shockingly enough,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: nothing came of this, but it would freak people out. Specifically,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: it would freak out Florence de Palma, which was Jeanette's mother,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: because she fully believed in this whole occult theory, given
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the fact that James Tate was her reverend. So she
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: literally thought that this witch was gonna go to the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: top of devil's teeth and bring back.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Her daughter in a demon form.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Like that's genuinely what Florence thought, which is just sad.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: So as time went on, the police would get multiple
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: calls in that people knew of animal sacrifices that were
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: happening near and around the area as well, whether it
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: was cats, dogs, squirrels. There was a goat found sacrificed
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: somewhere around that area as well, or just killed.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: We don't really know.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: And of course, Reverend Tate came up and confirmed that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: there was absolutely definitely a cult there that was definitely
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: sacrificing animals, and everyone should be scared and run to church.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Rumors would spread throughout Dayton High School that there was
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: in fact a cult, and the name of that cult
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: was The Witches. That is the worst name for a
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: cult I've ever heard in my life. This is all speculation,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: by the way. None of it is ever confirmed. This
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: is all just rumors, essentially. But it just kind of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: added to the occult. theory. So the witch rumors are
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: flying and the community is panicking. Nothing is being solved
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: at all with Jeanette's case. But in October 1972, a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: lanky 21-year-old Terry Rickle would walk into the Springfield Police
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Department and tell them he knew who killed Jeanette. He
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: said it was a strange figure who lived in the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: woods bordering Hoodale Quarry, and his name was Redd. Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Terry would describe him as such, quote unquote. He was
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: probably in his 30s then, maybe late 30s. He was
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: tall and thin with wildish red hair and a full beard.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: He was a weird looking guy. He looked like an
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: old hippie. According to Terry, Red was a vagrant who
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: often worked at the Baltusrol Golf Club as a caddy. Supposedly,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Red lived in the woods during the golf season, right
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: by where Jeanette's body was found. And since it was
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: still golfing season during the time that Jeanette's body was found,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: and Red lived right near the body, Red became a suspect.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: And it would end up adding up to the police
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: because police were getting reports of a transient that lived
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: in the woods and that was working on this golf
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: course as well. So he became a viable suspect. So
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: they would make their way to Mountain View Road to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: see where Red was. And they would find his makeshift
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: shack only about 50 yards away from where Jeanette's body
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: was found. They would find blankets, cans of food, and
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: some cooking pots as well, with food still in them
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: that was rotting. So they would actually put in some
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: effort now for once and try to go find Red.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: And they would actually find him later that fall in 1972.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And after finding him, they would take Red in for
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: some aggressive questioning, but he would soon be cleared and
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: set free and vanish into thin air, never to be
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: seen again. Sounds like something a guilty person would do,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: but that's just me. It was said that the police
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: assumed that since Jeanette and Red's ages were so different
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and that their lifestyles didn't meld in any way, that
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: that was the reason that he was cleared. It just
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: didn't add up or make sense why Red would have
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: killed her. which I think there's more reasons from what
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: I've read I couldn't find anything else, but it's.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: A bit suspicious.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: So Red was cleared and he disappeared and Jeanette's case
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: was slowly going cold. But the conspiracies continued with another
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: murder that happened close by within eight days of Jeanette's murder.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: And that murder victim was Joan Kramer. On August 15th, 1972,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Joan Kramer and her boyfriend went to a party that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: they were invited to with a bunch of friends and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: family in Union County. The night was going well, but
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: unbeknownst to the other partygoers, there was some tension brewing
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: between Joan and her boyfriend. Joan would leave the party
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in frustration and walk a mile and a half into
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the downtown area. She would find a phone booth and
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: call her friend that was in New York and talk
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: about the fight that she just had with her boyfriend.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: And then after that, she would call her parents and
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: tell her, she would head home soon and catch a
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: ride with a taxi. After the calls, she would hang
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: up and for some unknown reason, she would end up
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: hitchhiking rather than getting a taxi. So she would hitch
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: a ride with a stranger on the corner of South
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Orange Avenue and Sloan Street. And this would be the
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: last time anyone saw Joan Kramer alive. On August 28th, 1972,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: 13 days after her disappearance, Joan would be found only.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Six feet.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Miles from where Jeanette's body was found, and only eight
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: days later as well. And Joan's cause of death would
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: be strangulation, which was one of the determinations of how
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Jeanette might have died as well.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't 100% confirmed, as we know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: But not only that, but they were also both found
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: lying face down, only six miles apart, again. Both were
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: attractive brunettes with a middle part, and both had vanished
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: eight days apart while also both hitchhiking.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: It's matching. It's matching up. It's screaming serial killer to me,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: but what do I know?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just a YouTuber and I'm being sarcastic and an
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: asshole because.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: The police didn't put that together somehow.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Anyway, later on, a disgraced and drunken accountant and former
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Sunday school teacher and a father of five, Otto Nilsson,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: was eventually identified as the person that picked up Joan
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Kramer's that night, on August 15th, 1972. He was arrested
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: and tried for her murder, but the jury failed to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: determine that Mr. Nilsen was, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the person who killed Miss Kramer, and he was inevitably released.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: But a short time later, Nilsen would go insane and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: be committed to a psychiatric hospital. hospital and eventually take
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: his own life in 1992. And Jeanette, despite being an
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: obvious possible victim of Nilsen, given the obvious similarities to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Joan's death, was never connected or really given the time
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of day during the investigation of Joan's death or Nilsen's trial.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And Jeanette's case would eventually fade into the background given
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the little progress in figuring out what actually happened to her.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: And to top it off, in 1995, the Springfield Police
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Department claimed that all the records prior to 1995 were
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: destroyed due to flooding during Hurricane Floyd. This had a
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: lot of people saying that it had cover-up written all
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: over it, which kinda, yeah. And some of those people
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: being the DePalmas themselves, and rightfully so. Fast forwarding to today,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the Springfield Police Department and the Union County Prosecutor's Office
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: continue to remain silent after over four decades of perceived
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: indifference and deception. And we may never truly know what
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: happened to Jeanette DePalma. What I hope to accomplish with
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: this video is to bring light to Jeanette's case and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: bring light to the other victims cases that didn't get
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: solved as well that I talked about and hope that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: they and their families receive the closure.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: And justice that they deserve.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So thank you guys so much for watching this cold
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: case episode.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I very much enjoyed. reading about it.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: It was extremely interesting and I'm really hoping that this
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: case gets reopened and looked at more because Jeanette's family
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: deserves that closure. But I, you know, I find this
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: stuff very interesting. So if you have any other cases
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: that you want me to deep dive into, let me
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: know below. Whether that's cults, serial killers, cold cases, I'm
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: open to it all. I appreciate you guys for watching
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: until the end and I will see you beautiful face
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: in the next video.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, bye.