Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KOHBERGER IN ISOLATION, "SPORTY" NEW LOOK FOR TRIAL?

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KOHBERGER IN ISOLATION, "SPORTY" NEW LOOK FOR TRIAL? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Brian Coberger charged in the
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Speaker 1: mirrors of four beautiful university students now in isolation, with
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Speaker 1: a sporty new look for trial, sending so called fans
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Speaker 1: over the edge. Who are these people? I Nancy Grace,
0:29
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: And she was very frantic, and she was asking me
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Speaker 2: if I had talked to Kaylee. Katie's follows directly voicemail
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Speaker 2: circling Maddie.
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Speaker 1: Nobody's answering.
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Speaker 3: It's ringing and ringing, ring, ringing.
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Speaker 2: So we return on the TV and we see live
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Speaker 2: news coverage at Kids out Play. Hero Kaylee and Maddie
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Speaker 2: are both a quadrant of homicide.
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Speaker 1: When I hear that parents being informed their child is dead,
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Speaker 1: not from a car accident, which is bad enough, not
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Speaker 1: some other type of accident, but murdered in their own
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Speaker 1: bed and their own home. You send your child away
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Speaker 1: to college with all these hopes and dreams, all your love,
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Speaker 1: all your energy, all your money, everything you've poured into
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Speaker 1: that child. To hear that, and now I've got to
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Speaker 1: hear the man charged in four murders a quadruple homicide,
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Speaker 1: has a quote sporty new look, can I see the mugshot?
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Speaker 1: Please look at this. That's right, Brian Coberger's new mugshot,
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Speaker 1: seemingly tantalizing his so called fans. How can there even
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Speaker 1: be fans of a guy charged in for murders and
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Speaker 1: brutal murders. Murder bad enough, But you have, for instance,
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Speaker 1: the DC snipers who shoot at a distance, the people
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Speaker 1: are never even the victims, not even real to them.
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Speaker 1: And then you have somebody like Coburger allegedly who up
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Speaker 1: close and personal reassures his victim I'm here to help,
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Speaker 1: and then guts them like an animal at the slaughterhouse.
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Speaker 1: Him a sporty new look, my rear end. But you've
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Speaker 1: got to see what his fans are saying. There are
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Speaker 1: a lot of Facebook pages and other pages devoted to Coburger.
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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at fan reactions to the mug shot.
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Speaker 1: This is real? Is this real? He's so handsome, hot,
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Speaker 1: like a movie star. Why is he not smiling? He
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Speaker 1: looks like a Zaddi, which is a hot man, charismatic
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Speaker 1: and the look of confidence. I'm not seeing any stress.
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Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing. I don't want them
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Speaker 1: on my jury. What he looks handsome, hot, like a
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Speaker 1: movie star. He's a zaddy. The look of confidence. I'm
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Speaker 1: not seeing any stress. I just happened to pick those comments.
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Speaker 1: They go on and on and on. I just has
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Speaker 1: anybody seen the crime scene photos that home on King's Road.
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Speaker 1: If you looked at it from the outside, there is
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Speaker 1: literally blood pouring down the side of the foundation. Oh okay,
4:05
Speaker 1: joining me in an all star panel to help me
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Speaker 1: make sense of what I am hearing, but straight out
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Speaker 1: to renowned psychoanalysts joining us from Beverly Hills, author of
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Speaker 1: deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, Doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. Doctor Bethany, I know you've done some very
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Speaker 1: intensive analysis with me on how women fall for somebody
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Speaker 1: like this. It's as old as Charles Manson and his followers,
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Speaker 1: people that fell in love and married. Oh, the Menendez
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Speaker 1: brothers who thought Ted Bondy was really cute. What is
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Speaker 1: wrong with these people? It only emboldens Coburger.
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Speaker 3: You know, Nancy.
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Speaker 4: What illuminated this topic the most to me was an
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Speaker 4: important prison study where the interviewed women who were in
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Speaker 4: love with famous in mates like Mendez Brothers, Richard Ramirez,
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Speaker 4: the Nightstalker, the Pillows strangler.
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Speaker 3: And what they found were two things.
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Speaker 4: One is that the women refused to put their thoughts
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Speaker 4: together about the crime. They had never read the men's
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Speaker 4: rap sheets. They insisted that they did not know the
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Speaker 4: realities of the case.
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Speaker 3: On the other hand, many of these these.
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Speaker 4: Women actually took secret pleasure in the crime, thought that
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Speaker 4: the women had it coming to them, or that, in
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Speaker 4: the case of the Menendez brothers, that the parents deserve
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Speaker 4: to be shot. So these fanatics, Nancy, I would guess
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Speaker 4: that they're taking pleasure in the crime. They think those
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Speaker 4: kids had it coming to them. These are not nice people.
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Speaker 4: They're idealizing Coburger almost like one would idealize an evil
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Speaker 4: cult figure.
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Speaker 1: Let me go to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining US Professor
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Speaker 1: Forensics Jacksonal State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate,
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Speaker 1: host of an you hit series Body Bags with Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Excuse me, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, your
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Speaker 1: resume is as long as I seventy five. But what
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Speaker 1: matters to me the most is that you are a
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Speaker 1: death investigator and you have literally investigated thousands of death scenes. Okay,
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Speaker 1: you heard what doctor Bethany just said, did you know
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott? You probably don't because you're actually working and busy.
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Speaker 1: Did you know that there are multiple, for instance, Facebook
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Speaker 1: groups set up to support Brian Coberger, not support the
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Speaker 1: families of these victims. Not them, No, not the family
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Speaker 1: of Ethan Chapin, of Xanna Kunodle, Madison Morgan, Madison Morgan
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Speaker 1: and Kelly Gonsoalves. No, not to support them, but to
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Speaker 1: support Coberger.
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Speaker 5: Let me ask you a question real quick, Nancy, did
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Speaker 5: you know that blood actually has an aroma of its
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Speaker 5: aunt and when you.
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Speaker 1: Walk intical or do you don't want to answer? Yes?
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Speaker 1: I maybe enough homicide sayings where just the smell is
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Speaker 1: it reeks?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a I've often described it as kind
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Speaker 5: of a sickly sweet metallic smell. And once that gets
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Speaker 5: into your brain, once you see physically see it, and
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Speaker 5: you experience that, uh, you know, just from a visual standpoint,
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Speaker 5: and you take you take measure of what happened in
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Speaker 5: these environments. I would say that these individuals that would
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Speaker 5: you know, bow at the feed of someone like this
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Speaker 5: or promote them in any way, have never heard the
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Speaker 5: screams of families they've never been witnessed to an absolute
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Speaker 5: slaughter before, because if they had, If they had, they
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Speaker 5: would not be so quick to support someone that is
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Speaker 5: even that it's even being implied that they may have
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Speaker 5: had something to do with this. This is beyond the pale.
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Speaker 5: It's disgusting on so many levels because they don't understand.
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Speaker 1: What true pain is describe. And this is with the
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Speaker 1: backdrop of fan pages. That's what they are. Fan pages
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Speaker 1: set up to support brain Coburg. And don't worry, he'll
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Speaker 1: get his mits on a tablet, just like Merlin did
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Speaker 1: with his shirtless selfies. He's going to go online. He's
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Speaker 1: going to see this so called fandom, this fan support.
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Speaker 1: The reality of that crime scene should make everybody tuck
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Speaker 1: their tail between their legs and run for the heels.
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Speaker 5: Explain, yeah, when you see the scene, and we will,
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Speaker 5: and those that will be present on this jury eventually
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Speaker 5: will and they take the measure of the horror of that.
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Speaker 5: I think that a lot of people are going to
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Speaker 5: look back retrospectively, maybe those that support an individual like
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Speaker 5: this and say, what in the hell was I thinking
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Speaker 5: at the time, Or maybe they don't, Maybe they don't
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Speaker 5: have a sense of that. But I tell you this,
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Speaker 5: when you take the full measure of this and what
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Speaker 5: havoc and hell was reaked upon these four innocent college
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Speaker 5: students not too dissimilar from these students that I have
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Speaker 5: here at Jacksonville State that I see every single day
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Speaker 5: with hopes and dreams, and they have an expectation of
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Speaker 5: peace and safety. I don't know that people will be
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Speaker 5: able to fully appreciate it, because it is going to
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Speaker 5: be the stuff of the worst horror movies we could ever.
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Speaker 1: I think what doctor Bethany said is correct, and as
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Speaker 1: I say so often when I'm making a legal argument,
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Speaker 1: let's follow your comment through to its logical conclusion. Bethany
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Speaker 1: just told us Joe Scott that a lot of these
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Speaker 1: fangirls are not thinking through Oh he's so handsome, Oh
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Speaker 1: he's a zaty, he's a hotty, blah blah blah. Okay,
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Speaker 1: you bring him home, don't come to your house. Wait,
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Speaker 1: will you get that blank stare looking at you late
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Speaker 1: one night? So they're not thinking through this guy that
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Speaker 1: they are accolating online and crushing on to. They're not
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Speaker 1: thinking through who he really is and what he's really
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Speaker 1: accused of. Okay, everybody brace for impact. Not only has
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Speaker 1: Coburger sported a new look, but he's also demanding a
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Speaker 1: special wardrobe. Listen to Steve Gonsalves.
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Speaker 6: This isn't a wall collar crime people.
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Speaker 1: This is this is people. You work your.
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Speaker 6: Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
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Speaker 6: has a dream of their children going to college. You
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Speaker 6: trust the community, you trust the school, You send them off,
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Speaker 6: and then they get killed while they're sleep that night.
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Speaker 3: In their bags.
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Speaker 6: And we're going to seat this guy like he just
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Speaker 6: like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
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Speaker 1: It's not white called the solve his family. Speaking to
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Speaker 1: our friend with us now, Chris McDonough. But listen, there's more.
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Speaker 6: The person who did this crime looked at one of
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Speaker 6: the victims and said, I'm here to help you. If
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Speaker 6: that's not malice, that's the most type of evil that
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Speaker 6: you could ever hear of. That shouldn't be rewarded with
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Speaker 6: the suit and.
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Speaker 1: A fresh haircut every time.
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Speaker 5: That's wild.
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Speaker 1: That's wild.
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Speaker 2: We've been told that he does have shopples around his
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Speaker 2: knees or whatnot.
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Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, that's I don't I don't
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Speaker 1: want to be hidden crime stories with Nancy Grace demanding
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Speaker 1: a special wardrobe, joining me renowned attorney Brian Stewart joining
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Speaker 1: us attorney at Parker Maconcole. Just so you know, the
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Speaker 1: Gabby Potito family lawyer, Brian, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: You know, I would let a defendant, even though I
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Speaker 1: knew they were completely guilty, go into court wearing prison blues,
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Speaker 1: prison orange stripes, handcuffs, shackles, nothing in front of a jury.
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't even risk it with him walking down the
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Speaker 1: hallway in case a juror was wandering around. Why believe
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Speaker 1: it or not, you can get a reversal for that.
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Speaker 1: Probably not a reversal, but it's possible. And in a
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Speaker 1: death penalty case, yeah, you're looking at a reversal. So
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Speaker 1: I would keep in my office clothes and in different
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Speaker 1: sizes jackets, all blue jackets for the defendant to put
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Speaker 1: on if he didn't have street clothes to protect God
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Speaker 1: willing my guilty verdict. But really a whole new wardrobe.
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Speaker 1: What in the hay well.
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Speaker 7: I think it is totally expected and normal. The defense
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Speaker 7: attorney would want Brian to be able to appear in
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Speaker 7: street clothes. It's the impression that he gives to the judge,
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Speaker 7: and then later the jury is really important and he
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Speaker 7: doesn't want to be dressed like a criminal or a prisoner.
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Speaker 7: And I would anticipate that the judge will grant that
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Speaker 7: motion and let him wear street clothes. The judge will
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Speaker 7: want to bend over backwards to be fair, to remove
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Speaker 7: bases for appeal, and so I would definitely expect him
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Speaker 7: to allow Brian to wear street clothes at trial, so
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Speaker 7: that doesn't seem strange.
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Speaker 1: I know, as you said, Brian, I guess you're on
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Speaker 1: a first name basis. Now that's right, you heard me. Ry,
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Speaker 1: the Idaho student murder suspect Brian Coberger, has petitioned the
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Speaker 1: judge for a courtroom wardrobe exception. Is bringing to mind
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Speaker 1: another defendant. Does anyone recall the name Anna Delvy aka
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Speaker 1: Anna Sorkin, the fake heiress that built friends and associates
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Speaker 1: out of well over a quarter million dollars? Well, she
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Speaker 1: threw a wrench at the judge listen.
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Speaker 8: In a Seroken's legal team not only begged that Sarroken
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Speaker 8: be allowed to change out of her jail uniform for trial,
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Speaker 8: but even hired a professional stylist to dress the fake
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Speaker 8: aires Srokan wears designer dresses and suits for a majority
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Speaker 8: of the trial, but when her defense attorneys provide more
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Speaker 8: affordable outfits from H and M or Ann Taylor, Sorokin
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Speaker 8: throws a fit and refuses to attend court. To judge
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Speaker 8: order Sirrokan to appear for court anyway. The judge order
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Speaker 8: Soroken to appear for court anyway, and her white blouse
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Speaker 8: and black slack ensemble is added to the Instagram page
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Speaker 8: at Anadelphi court looks.
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Speaker 1: Does anybody see what's happening here? And a Sorkin, the
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Speaker 1: fake heiress who built friends and associates out of will
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Speaker 1: over a quarter million dollars who just was on Dancing
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Speaker 1: with the Stars and whined about it, saying, dance with
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Speaker 1: the Stars take advantage of her for fame. Girl, you
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Speaker 1: are not famous, you are infamous, that said the trend.
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Speaker 1: Everything she wore showed up on a highly traveled Instagram page,
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Speaker 1: and now coburger has legions of Facebook fans and more
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Speaker 1: joining me. Senior investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrea Cavalier, Andrea,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. My ears are bleeding
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Speaker 1: from what I am hearing. Facebook support groups a special wardrobe,
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Speaker 1: a sporty new look that makes him look like a Zaddy.
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Speaker 1: Has the world turned upside down Cavalier. The man is
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Speaker 1: charged with four bloody knife murders.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it's disgusting. We get comments all the time
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Speaker 9: we post a picture. When we posted the mugshot, you know,
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Speaker 9: people went crazy. They loved the look and him showing
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Speaker 9: up in court going to you know, he wants to
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Speaker 9: be in street clothes, he wants to be in a suit.
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Speaker 9: It makes sense, you know, And we're still going to
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Speaker 9: be getting those comments about his look.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is now a longtime friend and colleague. You
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Speaker 1: can find him where he created the Cold Case Foundation,
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Speaker 1: former homicide detective and host of a YouTube channel where
16:30
Speaker 1: I first found him on this case, the Interview Room
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Speaker 1: on YouTube. Chris McDonald, Chris, just hearing the Gonsalvast family
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Speaker 1: speaking is just makes me feel ill. And the fact
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Speaker 1: that they are having to fundraise money to get to
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Speaker 1: the trial a trial is going to last at least
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Speaker 1: six weeks, and support themselves to be there. I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: tell you a story I was just talking about this
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Speaker 1: morning when my fiance was murdered. This is everybody knows
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Speaker 1: that story. But this is I never thought of it
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Speaker 1: that much. But we would travel every day to the
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Speaker 1: trial over two hours, closer to three hours one way,
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Speaker 1: and my father, who worked for the railroad, and my mom,
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Speaker 1: who's the payroll clerk, would take off work. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I was completely out of it. I already dropped out
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Speaker 1: of school, and it was a blur to me. I
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Speaker 1: would be in the back seat. It's seriously a blur.
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Speaker 1: I would occasionally look up, I wouldn't know where we were,
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Speaker 1: and I'd just start crying again. I had to lay
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Speaker 1: down in the back seat. And we get to the courthouse.
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Speaker 1: I don't even remember going in. I can't real it''s
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Speaker 1: a horrible blur. And I'm thinking that was my fiance.
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Speaker 1: But now I have children. Imagine them having to raise money,
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Speaker 1: leave their home, leave their jobs, leave their friends, their
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Speaker 1: other family, and go to Boisey, find a place to live,
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Speaker 1: and go to that god forsaken courtroom every day to
18:18
Speaker 1: look at crime stein photos of their child slaughtered. I mean,
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Speaker 1: did anyone think about that before they granted a change
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Speaker 1: of any.
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Speaker 10: Apparently not, Nancy, And you know the depth of that pain,
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Speaker 10: as you know, and what the parents are going through
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Speaker 10: and I'm just not talking about you know, Christy and Steve.
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Speaker 10: I'm talking about all of the parents. There are eight
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Speaker 10: of them, and to see him, you know, propped up
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Speaker 10: in such a fashion that their existence doesn't matter. These
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Speaker 10: four victims, the court left them down, in my opinion,
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Speaker 10: in terms of not hearing the totality of the argument
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Speaker 10: that the state should have taken on and say, look,
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Speaker 10: this is a hardship on all of these people. Let's
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Speaker 10: consider that heavily. And you know what came out of
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Speaker 10: that hearing and what came out of that decision, judge
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Speaker 10: Judge said in the decision, we're not equipped to handle
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Speaker 10: this case. Oh my gosh, where were you for a
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Speaker 10: year and a half. You could have fixed it quickly,
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Speaker 10: and then the parents could have prepared.
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Speaker 1: I understand, having tried capital cases before, the importance of
19:44
Speaker 1: an impartial jury, and I'm going to get to that.
19:47
Speaker 1: It's not just a factual issue. It's a legal issue.
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Speaker 1: And I've had to make very hard decisions when it
19:53
Speaker 1: comes to changing any decisions I like. But I want
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Speaker 1: to talk about right now this is doing to the
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Speaker 1: victim's family. Then I'll get into the legalities and the
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Speaker 1: transport of Coburger. Doctor Bethany Marshall helped me out here.
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Speaker 1: I mean, even remembering that ride, which a lot of
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Speaker 1: it I don't remember, even remember that. Remembering that ride
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Speaker 1: to the courthouse for Keith murder trial is just very upsetting.
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Speaker 1: But then when I overlay what these families are going through,
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Speaker 1: it's their child. I mean, in my world, I made
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Speaker 1: it very clear to my husband, poor David, that once
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Speaker 1: they came, they are number one. They are the focus
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Speaker 1: my reason for living. And I'm sure these families felt
20:43
Speaker 1: the same way. Did I tell you I met Ethan's
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Speaker 1: mom at the last crime com I thought I recognized her.
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Speaker 1: She was coming down a long hallway to come speak
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Speaker 1: to me. I was meeting with Johnny Depp's lawyer, and
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Speaker 1: she struck me because she's beautiful, but she seemed to
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Speaker 1: have an inner light about her. She just kind of
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Speaker 1: like glowed, and she is at a very I don't
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Speaker 1: say peaceful, but she's at a spot where she's trying
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Speaker 1: to help other people, or at least she was at
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Speaker 1: that juncture that could change through all of this. But
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Speaker 1: I imagine all of their will just being crushed out
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Speaker 1: of them just to get to the courthouse. On top
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Speaker 1: of everything else they've got to deal with.
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Speaker 4: You know, Nancy, there is so much wrong about this
21:30
Speaker 4: entire situation, how this court case is being managed. First
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Speaker 4: of all, it's traumatic enough just in and of itself
21:36
Speaker 4: that they're going to have to look at those crime
21:38
Speaker 4: scene photos. Did you know that one of the hallmarks
21:41
Speaker 4: of post traumatic stress is avoiding seeing anything that reminds
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Speaker 4: you of the original crime.
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Speaker 3: They're going to have to do quite the opposite.
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Speaker 4: They're going to have to view the crime scene photos
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Speaker 4: day after day. They're going to have the stress of
21:58
Speaker 4: financial difficulty. I had to raise money. There's something even
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Speaker 4: more sinister, Nancy, and that is that I believe Brian
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Speaker 4: Coberger is enjoying this, and the family is going to
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Speaker 4: have to watch him smile.
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Speaker 3: Did you notice that when he sits next to the.
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Speaker 4: Blonde attorney, he looks to her every once in a
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Speaker 4: while and he has a little smile, almost like he's
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Speaker 4: on a date. This purp loved being surrounded by crime.
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Speaker 4: He studied crime, he taught crime. He was obsessed with crime.
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Speaker 4: Now whereas he he's in a court of law, this
22:33
Speaker 4: is his heyday, this is his payday. He is achieving
22:37
Speaker 4: what he wanted. This is like being on a date
22:41
Speaker 4: for him. Remember, Brian Coberger was kicked out of a
22:45
Speaker 4: bar for approaching women. Women around him thought he was creepy.
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Speaker 4: He's not going to get kicked out of the courtroom, Nancy.
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Speaker 4: He can sit there in his street club, flirt with
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Speaker 4: the attorneys, and just enjoy the proceedings.
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Speaker 3: That's what the family is going to have to witness.
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Speaker 11: Brian Coberger's defense team conducted a phone survey of hundreds
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Speaker 11: of potential jurors in Leaytok County, asking them multiple questions
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Speaker 11: about their knowledge of the case. According to the defense team,
23:12
Speaker 11: there is a bias against Coburger, revealed in answers to
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Speaker 11: questions such as what would happen if Coburger is not convicted?
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Speaker 11: Potential jurors in Laytok County answered that question with they'd
23:26
Speaker 11: burn the courthouse down. Outrage would be a mild description.
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Speaker 11: They would probably find him and kill him, and there
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Speaker 11: would likely be a riot, and he wouldn't last long
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Speaker 11: outside because someone would do the good old boy justice
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Speaker 11: and finally riots parents would take care of him.
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Speaker 1: Now, let me remind everyone that those threats to kill
23:49
Speaker 1: Coburger if there's not a guilty verdict were harvested by
23:54
Speaker 1: his defense and an inappropriate juror polling phone call. That
24:03
Speaker 1: a questionnaire of sorts that was sent to potential jurors,
24:08
Speaker 1: and those are some of the answers. They say that
24:11
Speaker 1: they got that the people of Moscow would storm the
24:16
Speaker 1: courthouse like an angry mob, basically drag Coburger out and
24:20
Speaker 1: kill him. Do I think that would happen? No, But
24:25
Speaker 1: confronted with that evidence that was generated by the defense
24:29
Speaker 1: in support of their change of venue motion, the judge
24:32
Speaker 1: granted it. But before we put the cart before the horse,
24:38
Speaker 1: before we get to the trial in Boise, the defendant,
24:43
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger is in Boise. How did he get there? Listen?
24:47
Speaker 12: Coberger is secretly transferred to the Ada County Jail on
24:51
Speaker 12: an Idaho State Police plane. Leta and Ada County sheriffs
24:56
Speaker 12: say they decided to work with the state police to
24:58
Speaker 12: make the transfer as safe and efficial as possible. The
25:01
Speaker 12: six hour drive to Boise presented plenty of opportunity for
25:04
Speaker 12: complications like a blown tire or road closures.
25:08
Speaker 1: The two hour early.
25:09
Speaker 12: Morning flight mitigated those concerns and went smoothly. According to
25:13
Speaker 12: Ada County Sheriffs Captain Ryan Jensen.
25:16
Speaker 1: Joining US now is an expert in prisoner location and transport.
25:22
Speaker 1: IRV Brandt is with US former Senior Inspector US Marshall
25:25
Speaker 1: Service International Investigations Branch I emphasize that for a reason.
25:31
Speaker 1: Formerly with DOJ Office of International Affairs, he's been an
25:35
Speaker 1: attache to other countries for the US, including Kingston, Jamaica
25:41
Speaker 1: and more. Latest book Forever Solo, Night of the Dragon
25:46
Speaker 1: in his Jack Solo series, j I wonder who that's
25:49
Speaker 1: patterned after. IRV Brandt. Let me understand something. Did Brian
25:56
Speaker 1: Coburger get flown to Boise and a private plane? What
26:03
Speaker 1: did he get? A ginger ale and a bag of
26:04
Speaker 1: peanuts to go with that? What did they ask him
26:07
Speaker 1: be for chicken? Did he go in a private plane, Nancy?
26:11
Speaker 13: He went with a plane that was owned by the
26:15
Speaker 13: state Police. And to answer your questions, no peanuts, no
26:21
Speaker 13: in flight dinner, no in flight movies. He was shackled
26:26
Speaker 13: leg irons, waist chains, probably body armor since they do
26:32
Speaker 13: have some kinds of threats against them. But this is
26:37
Speaker 13: the County's correctional Divisions work with the state Police and
26:43
Speaker 13: the counting Correctional Divisions. Have what's called the Correctional Emergency
26:48
Speaker 13: Response Team cert officers, and they're highly trained and this
26:53
Speaker 13: type of prisoner movement. They'll also be there for the trial.
26:57
Speaker 13: You may not see them, but they're they're they're protect everyone,
27:03
Speaker 13: including the judge, the jurors, the witnesses, and they are
27:10
Speaker 13: experts in this field. Change of venue is not uncommon
27:15
Speaker 13: and they handle these types of matters all the time, you.
27:17
Speaker 1: Know, doctor Bethany, I'm listening to IRV Brandt, a US
27:22
Speaker 1: Marshall who's transported hardened criminals, murderers, dope lords, you name it,
27:28
Speaker 1: all over the world and flown with them. What the
27:33
Speaker 1: last thing we want is, for instance, a courthouse escape
27:37
Speaker 1: or a transport escape. All you have to do is
27:40
Speaker 1: go on to Google and look put in prisoner transport escape.
27:44
Speaker 1: It just goes on and on. Page four, page five,
27:46
Speaker 1: page six. It happens all the time, especially when they're
27:49
Speaker 1: in a vehicle of any sort. Just through trickery, through force,
27:55
Speaker 1: they get away. But I assume, doctor Bethany, that you
27:59
Speaker 1: don't want them on a private I mean a commercial plane.
28:02
Speaker 1: There's always a have you noticed people get lulled into
28:06
Speaker 1: a false sense of complacency they're watching the in flight movie.
28:10
Speaker 1: They're working, they're this, They're that. Why, Bethany, do they
28:15
Speaker 1: in the movies always let the person go to the bathroom.
28:20
Speaker 1: Don't they know something bad is going I'm like, wet yourself.
28:24
Speaker 1: You're not going to the bathroom, don't care why.
28:28
Speaker 3: It's when the scary music starts playing. Yeah, you know, Nancy,
28:31
Speaker 3: he's not going to.
28:32
Speaker 4: The bathroom on this plane. I can tell you that
28:34
Speaker 4: much for sure. For what Earth Brant is saying, you know,
28:37
Speaker 4: this security is so tight. Here's what I'm concerned about, though.
28:42
Speaker 4: Whenever there's a prison break or somebody breaks out of
28:45
Speaker 4: a prison van, you know, how it happens is that
28:48
Speaker 4: they've seduced somebody in the prison system or on the
28:51
Speaker 4: outside to help them. A famous case comes to mind
28:55
Speaker 4: of a prison nurse who fell in love with an inmate.
28:58
Speaker 4: They plotted together to have him escape, and it was
29:02
Speaker 4: when he was being transferred to court. She brought guns
29:06
Speaker 4: and she shot one of the officers that was putting
29:08
Speaker 4: him into the car. That was a couple of decades ago.
29:10
Speaker 4: I remember covering that story. So, Nancy, you know who
29:13
Speaker 4: knows Brian Koberger. We have all these strange, weird fanatics,
29:17
Speaker 4: who thinks he's handsome and he's like a rock star,
29:20
Speaker 4: and now he's getting on a plane. I would just
29:22
Speaker 4: be concerned about who's in his sphere, who's in his orbit,
29:26
Speaker 4: who is he communicating with, who might want to collude
29:29
Speaker 4: in some kind of a breakout of sorts.
29:33
Speaker 1: So Brandt, I guess you don't give the accused killer
29:38
Speaker 1: a potty break.
29:39
Speaker 13: No, Nancy, you don't. And it doesn't matter how long
29:43
Speaker 13: the flight is. Like like I said, I've come from
29:45
Speaker 13: South America straight, you know, into New York, into the Northeast,
29:51
Speaker 13: and you just have to deal with it. Marshall, I
29:55
Speaker 13: have to go to the bathroom.
29:57
Speaker 1: We'll hold it.
29:58
Speaker 13: We'll be in New York in seven hours.
30:00
Speaker 1: Open Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:12
Speaker 2: A million people can tell me, don't let it consume you,
30:16
Speaker 2: be patient, don't think about it, just you know, But
30:20
Speaker 2: I am me, I am I can't. This is my daughter,
30:24
Speaker 2: this is her best friend, this is two other people.
30:28
Speaker 1: Kids, And.
30:31
Speaker 2: You can tell me till the cows come home. And
30:35
Speaker 2: I can't stop just being consumed by it.
30:38
Speaker 1: I don't know how the parents were staying so strong.
30:41
Speaker 1: Did you hear that doctor, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us
30:45
Speaker 1: side of Beverly Hills author Now on Peacock that was
30:48
Speaker 1: Christy Gounsov was speaking. Did you notice that she says,
30:52
Speaker 1: this is my daughter. She's saying it was my daughter
30:59
Speaker 1: in a way not acknowledging it to make my head.
31:02
Speaker 13: Hurt that.
31:05
Speaker 1: Her beautiful girl is dead. You know, for the longest time,
31:09
Speaker 1: I couldn't say Keith is dead dead, the dead word.
31:14
Speaker 1: It's just too much. And now they're dealing with having
31:18
Speaker 1: to raise money online to go live in Boise the
31:21
Speaker 1: duration of the trial, to put with with Coburger being
31:24
Speaker 1: a Zaddy online and having Facebook fans. I don't see
31:27
Speaker 1: any Facebook fans for the victims. But did you catch.
31:31
Speaker 4: That what she just said, Yes, Nancy, I did notice
31:35
Speaker 4: that she's speaking about her daughter like she's still alive,
31:38
Speaker 4: but her daughter is alive.
31:40
Speaker 3: In her mind.
31:42
Speaker 4: She has a duty to her daughter. She wants to
31:44
Speaker 4: find out what happened. She wants to bring justice for
31:46
Speaker 4: her daughter. You know, I've said so many times on
31:49
Speaker 4: this show, and we grieve. It's not just the loss
31:52
Speaker 4: of the past, it's the loss of the future of
31:55
Speaker 4: what you anticipated you would have with that person. She'll
31:58
Speaker 4: never see her daughter getting married, She'll never have granddaughters
32:02
Speaker 4: or grandsons. With this with her daughter, she'll never see
32:07
Speaker 4: her get into her career. Her mind is struggling to
32:12
Speaker 4: come to terms with the loss of that future that
32:15
Speaker 4: she's been dreaming of from the day her daughter was born,
32:19
Speaker 4: and now she's having to struggle to come up with
32:24
Speaker 4: money to drive to court. Do you know the type
32:27
Speaker 4: of fragility that introduces into all of us when we're
32:31
Speaker 4: financially stressed, and this on top of a court case.
32:35
Speaker 4: It's really a tragedy and a travesty that the location
32:39
Speaker 4: was changed.
32:40
Speaker 1: On top of it all, Hey, listen, I understand why
32:43
Speaker 1: the judge change the location. If hey, she the judge
32:48
Speaker 1: does not change the location where there have been there's
32:52
Speaker 1: been evidence of threats on the defendant in that location.
32:56
Speaker 1: You're looking at a big fat reversal on appeal, which
32:59
Speaker 1: means the family would go through all of this pain,
33:03
Speaker 1: move to Boise for the duration, suffer, and then if
33:08
Speaker 1: there is a conviction, you're looking at a reversal. So
33:14
Speaker 1: I believe, as much as I don't like it, that
33:16
Speaker 1: the judge did what he had to do. This had
33:19
Speaker 1: to be moved, But do I have to hear about
33:23
Speaker 1: Coburger's new look and his privileges behind bars? Listen?
33:29
Speaker 14: Brian Coburger is held in the maximum security section of
33:33
Speaker 14: the Ada County Jail in one of its eighty eight
33:35
Speaker 14: solitary cells. Coburger reportedly will not have any additional security,
33:40
Speaker 14: following the same procedures for recent high profile cases. All
33:44
Speaker 14: inmates receive a mainline vegan or kosher meal to their
33:48
Speaker 14: cell three times a day. The jail has recently cut
33:51
Speaker 14: down their menu as it operates at or above ninety
33:54
Speaker 14: two percent capacity. Many inmates sleep on the floor due
33:58
Speaker 14: to the overcrowding. Inmates are permitted to purchase snacks and
34:01
Speaker 14: other small items from the commissary once a week.
34:04
Speaker 1: What he's got a private room? You don't even get
34:07
Speaker 1: that in college at fancy, exclusive Ivy League colleges a
34:12
Speaker 1: private room. Brian Stewart, high profile lawyer joining us out
34:18
Speaker 1: of Idaho. Why does he get a private room? Why
34:22
Speaker 1: don't I just book him at the RITZ? Well?
34:24
Speaker 7: Having a private room in jail is not necessarily a
34:28
Speaker 7: good thing or an enjoyable thing. It makes it easier
34:31
Speaker 7: for the jail, for sure, to maintain security for Colberger
34:35
Speaker 7: and for the other inmates, and having him mixed with
34:39
Speaker 7: other people in the population is just going to create
34:42
Speaker 7: a problem for them and a security issue. So I
34:45
Speaker 7: would imagine that it's mostly for the convenience of the
34:48
Speaker 7: jail and the people who work.
34:50
Speaker 1: You know what, Brian Stewart, I say, why you win
34:52
Speaker 1: so many cases? You totally maybe you should be on
34:56
Speaker 1: Dancing with the Stars, not Anna Sorkin a Ka Delvy.
35:00
Speaker 1: He's danced right around it. He has a private room.
35:04
Speaker 1: And did you see what we were just showing. It's
35:06
Speaker 1: kind of like their co op area where they're all
35:10
Speaker 1: sitting around having snacks, A couple of people snoozing on
35:14
Speaker 1: the side on sofa palets. I mean, and has anybody
35:18
Speaker 1: beside me seen the commisary list. Let's see it control room,
35:24
Speaker 1: let's se if you get put that up on the screen.
35:26
Speaker 1: There you go, item bundles. What's that? Tuna shredded chicken,
35:30
Speaker 1: salami sticks. I would like that. I would like somebody
35:33
Speaker 1: to bring me some cheetos, some ramen, pretzels, chips, twigs,
35:40
Speaker 1: Snickers okay now snickers, blueberry Danish. They could probably get
35:46
Speaker 1: to eat it up. Let me please call on you again,
35:49
Speaker 1: Professor of forensics. Can you remind me about how fresh
35:56
Speaker 1: that crime scene was. It's brutal.
35:59
Speaker 5: The you're you know, when these images come out and
36:02
Speaker 5: when we actually hear these crumpsing texts give testimony relative
36:05
Speaker 5: to this, they're going to talk about, I don't know,
36:08
Speaker 5: one of the terms that's probably going to come to
36:09
Speaker 5: mind is like a super saturated mattress that's saturated with blood.
36:14
Speaker 5: You're going to see blood deposition on the floor of
36:16
Speaker 5: the walls. And not to mention the horror that will
36:20
Speaker 5: be displayed on displayed on each on the bodies of
36:25
Speaker 5: each one of these precious children, you know that are
36:28
Speaker 5: now gone. And I take exception with what I've seen
36:32
Speaker 5: in the news because relative to descriptions of these injuries,
36:36
Speaker 5: they talk about, well, they were stabbed, and I know
36:39
Speaker 5: that's very It has a certain economy to it when
36:42
Speaker 5: you write it. But they're not just stabbed, Nancy, they're slashed.
36:46
Speaker 5: As a matter of fact, this poor one, one child
36:50
Speaker 5: had her hand cut all the way down to the
36:54
Speaker 5: ligaments in her hand. So don't tell me about freshening up.
36:57
Speaker 5: Don't tell me about you know, honey bun and all
37:00
Speaker 5: these other things. It's absolutely disgusting, but the truth is
37:04
Speaker 5: going to come out, and it's going to come out
37:05
Speaker 5: a trial.
37:06
Speaker 2: I don't feel like we're even close to a trial date.
37:10
Speaker 2: I know that when they do, it's going to be
37:11
Speaker 2: far away, but I don't think they're close to setting it.
37:14
Speaker 3: And it eats me alive.
37:18
Speaker 1: We're trying to determine when the court date is going
37:21
Speaker 1: to be. There's all over the map. The judge is
37:24
Speaker 1: even thinking about a bifurcated trial where part of the
37:27
Speaker 1: case is presented in May and the other part is
37:31
Speaker 1: presented in September. Hey, judge, that's a bad idea. That
37:34
Speaker 1: is unfair to the state because by the time the
37:37
Speaker 1: defense starts to state, the jury will have forgotten everything
37:40
Speaker 1: the state said back in May. Don't do that. That
37:45
Speaker 1: said to Angia Cavalier, investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrew,
37:50
Speaker 1: what more can you tell me about the preparations for trial?
37:54
Speaker 9: That's right at this moment. The trial is set to
37:59
Speaker 9: start in jail. But there have been talks about, you know,
38:03
Speaker 9: the judges thinking about you know, the jurors and the
38:06
Speaker 9: families and you know, being away for three months during
38:09
Speaker 9: the summer.
38:10
Speaker 3: It's possible it could start in May. It's possible it
38:12
Speaker 3: could start in September.
38:14
Speaker 9: But as for preparations getting too Boise for these families,
38:19
Speaker 9: it's there's always going to be something. There are airbnbs
38:23
Speaker 9: and hotels, but they are filling up, I say, Joe.
38:26
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan nodding his head, What do you mean, Joe Scott.
38:31
Speaker 5: Well, what I mean is that one of the rationales
38:33
Speaker 5: for moving this case. It's not just security, but you know,
38:36
Speaker 5: you think about the tainting of the pool, that there
38:39
Speaker 5: would be, perhaps in some magical alternative universe, someone in
38:44
Speaker 5: Ada County, Idaho that would not have heard of this trial. Nancy,
38:49
Speaker 5: let me tell you something real quick. I just got
38:51
Speaker 5: back from Crime con London in the UK. I was
38:55
Speaker 5: there for sixteen days, traveling about the country and met
38:58
Speaker 5: a lot of people. Guess what the number one case
39:01
Speaker 5: was that they asked me about in London was It
39:06
Speaker 5: was Idaho. They all wanted to know there's nowhere you
39:09
Speaker 5: can go under the sun that someone has not heard
39:13
Speaker 5: about this trial. So the idea that you know you're
39:17
Speaker 5: going to find a group of people in Boise that
39:20
Speaker 5: have not heard about this case is absolutely ridiculous to
39:25
Speaker 5: my way of thinking, because it's everywhere, It's everywhere and
39:29
Speaker 5: one other thing very quickly. I remember the Derek Chauvron case.
39:33
Speaker 5: I covered it for eighteen straight days on air, every
39:36
Speaker 5: single day, and I saw even those jurors coming in
39:40
Speaker 5: for the voider. It was a circus. It was an
39:43
Speaker 5: absolute circus with the news media there. The same thing
39:47
Speaker 5: is going to happen here. You're going to see these
39:49
Speaker 5: people coming in and out of the court at the
39:50
Speaker 5: jury pool, and they're going to have an idea of
39:53
Speaker 5: what they're faced with if they get on this jury.
39:56
Speaker 5: So I don't know. I just don't understand the rationale.
40:00
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, How did it get so bass ackwards? From
40:04
Speaker 1: Facebook fan pages supporting Coburger to private iPad vegan meals,
40:13
Speaker 1: endless hours of visitation with his lawyer, a sporting new look,
40:19
Speaker 1: a private wardrobe. How'd all this happen?
40:23
Speaker 4: Ye know?
40:24
Speaker 3: And answer?
40:24
Speaker 10: That is the million dollar question today for our society.
40:28
Speaker 10: I think, you know, one of the biggest problems here,
40:31
Speaker 10: in my opinion, is the threat level for Brian Koberger
40:36
Speaker 10: actually went up because they have moved him to a
40:40
Speaker 10: larger jail facility. They've thrown him in the hole ie
40:43
Speaker 10: to shoe, and he's going to have to start thinking
40:47
Speaker 10: about dodging socks full of bars of soap, because these
40:52
Speaker 10: inmates are going to look at him and get cred
40:56
Speaker 10: what they call kred, you know, credibility. If they can
40:59
Speaker 10: beat him with those bars of soaps in those socks, then,
41:03
Speaker 10: by golly, those Now those jailers have to be thinking
41:07
Speaker 10: how do we keep them away from the main line,
41:10
Speaker 10: just like this picture right here, how do we keep
41:13
Speaker 10: them away.
41:13
Speaker 1: From this room?
41:15
Speaker 10: And that puts the officers at risk, That puts the
41:18
Speaker 10: court at risk, because somebody right now is thinking about
41:22
Speaker 10: Brian Cooberger, not only on the outside, but on the inside.
41:27
Speaker 10: And that's why this guy is locked down with his honeybun,
41:30
Speaker 10: you know, snack options.
41:32
Speaker 1: We wait for the judge to finally schedule the trial
41:37
Speaker 1: so justice can unfold in a court of law. But
41:41
Speaker 1: now we stop and remember an American hero, Deputy Shareff
41:45
Speaker 1: Andrew Peerey, el Paso County Sheriffs, Colorado, shot and killed
41:50
Speaker 1: in a line of duty, a US Army vet. Survived
41:53
Speaker 1: by wife Megan and two children. American hero Deputy Shareff
41:59
Speaker 1: Andrew Pieri. Thank you to all of our guests for
42:03
Speaker 1: joining us, but especially to you for being with us.
42:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,