Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 781: How to Buy a Great Deer Hunting Property with Jake Hofer

Transcript

Ep. 781: How to Buy a Great Deer Hunting Property with Jake Hofer · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: joined by Jake Howford to discuss the very most important
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: things you need to consider. Went on the hunt for
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: a new deer hunting proper All right, welcome back to
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the wired ton podcast, brought to you by First Light
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and their Camel for Conservation initiative. And today we are
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: wrapping up a series that we loosely started a month
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: ish ago on access different ways to get access to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: hunting ground. We've talked about leasing, We've talked about getting
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: free permi, and today we are going to discuss how
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: to buy a hunting property of your own, especially how
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: to buy your first You know that very first property
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: you take the leap on, takes some takes some nerve,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: it takes some guts, It takes a lot of planning,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and for a lot of folks it is intimidating. So
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: today I'm joined by someone who has a lot to
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: share on this front. He is a real estate broker himself.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: He's helped many people purchase their own first farms. He
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: has gone through this process himself and bought a farm
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: of his own too. And he is the host of
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: the Land Podcast, which is all about helping people get
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the information they need to make a land purchase themselves,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: a hunting, deer related, recreation property, whatever it is you want.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Jacoffer's got the information to help you do that. He's
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: also the host of the Exodus Trailcam radio podcast. He's
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: part of the Exodus Trailcam company crew. He does a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: lot of great stuff. I am a big fan, highly
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: respect his opinions, his perspectives. He's a great communicator about
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: this stuff, and he really brings a lot to the
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: table because, like I said, he's been on all sides
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of this equation. He's helped sell properties to people, he's
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: bought property himself, and he's talked to all sorts of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: different experts on this very topic. So we're going to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: get into everything from understanding, you know, what kinds of
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: folks should be looking at buying property, and maybe who
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: is buying property not right for We're going to talk
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: about how to know when you are ready. We're going
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: to talk about when's.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: The market ready.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about financial issues, market related issues, understanding,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: how to determine the fair price for property, red flags
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: when looking at hunting properties, to buy, green lights, things
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: that should make you want to jump right on it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: We discussed different ways to you know, obtain new income,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: different ways to make properties more affordable, all sorts of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: stuff along those lines. We talk about buying and flipping
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: proper versus properties that you want to buy and keep
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: for the long term with your family, if you are
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: interested in purchasing a deer hunting property, if your own someday.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You really should give this one a listen that all said,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: great episode. I'm excited for you us to hear this one.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna leave you with one quick update, which is
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that this coming Saturday. If you're listening to this when
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: it just came out, This Saturday, May eighteenth, twenty twenty four,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: We've got our first Working for Wildlife tour event is
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: in Kentucky. It's kind of near London, Kentucky at the
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Daniel Boone National Forest. If you want to sign up,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: go to Dear Association dot com. Slash wf W that's
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Dear Association dot com slash wfw that's the National Dear
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Association's registration page for this event. This particular event is
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: in collaboration with them. We're gonna be working on some
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: white oak restoration, some hunter access improvements, different things to
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: help out public land and help out wildlife. If you
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: are in the area, I'd love to see you.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be there.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Were and be giving out some of these T shirts
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: that I'm wearing right now I work for Wildlife. There's
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: gonna be some NDA hats. I think NDA is doing
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: a drawing for Yetti cooler. There's gonna be food, and uh,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: just a big old shindig afterwards as well. So it's
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: gonna be a great time. Can't wait. Gonna be seeing
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: all you guys shaking hands, taking pictures, having a grand
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: old time. A May eighteenth, please register, come on out Sunday,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and uh we'll have a good time. So for that
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: all said, let's get to my chat today with Jake
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: discussing how to buy a great deer hunting property. All
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: right with me on the line now is Jake Offer. Jake,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me Mark, I really appreciate it,
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: and UH I always excited to talk about land and
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: deer and been a long time listener to UH Wired
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: to Hunt. So pretty fun to be on here this morning,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: longtime listener, first on caller exactly, Yeah, I can use
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: that phrase. Yeah.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I I realized when we were setting this up that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been on your guys' show over at Exodus,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: but had not had you on here. And that is
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a big oversight on my part because I got to
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: say this publicly on my podcast. I think I said
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: this at one point when I was on your show,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: but I want to say this to my listeners too.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I don't listen to many deer hunting podcasts, but one
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: that I do like, probably my favorite deer hunting podcast
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is yours.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Man. I appreciate truly.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I really truly think that you do an excellent job.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: You are the I think you're if. Yeah, I would
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: say you're the best deer hunting podcast host that I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: listened to.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Man, that means a lot. I really appreciate it. Don't
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: go back and listen to any old episodes. I want
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: to check this out. It's like one of those things
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you hopefully get a little better. And I mean, I
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: think we've had the ability to interview so many excellent
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: people and look at things from different angles. And there's
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: so many podcasts out there now, with so many different
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: subniches and cultures, and you know, it's easy to get
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: lost in the mix of all the different podcasts out there.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: So you find one that you like and tune in
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: and pick up what you can. So I really appreciate that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you're welcome. I think I think our
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: brains work the same way like I. When I have
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: listened to other shows, I sometimes get frustrated with other
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: people asking questions and just be like, you should ask this,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: you should say this, why are you not doing this?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And with you you're always you're always doing exactly what
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I would have wanted to do. So so maybe we're
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: just too alike. But maybe I don't know. But it
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: turns out well. I enjoy your guys. The stuff you
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: guys do a great job across across the board, everything
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: you're doing, Land Podcasts, Exodus, Trail, Came Radio, all the
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: gear you guys are making. I just want to start
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: it out by giving you guys all big kudos.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really, I really appreciate that.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So that all said, though, rather than just fluffing you up,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the main point of our conversation here today is is land.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: We did this kind of mini series about access that
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I kicked off a month month and a half ago,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and we talked about leasing, and we talked about, you know,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: still trying to find that free knock on door permission.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, as I got thinking about it, it
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: seemed like an oversight to not at least spend one
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: good conversation here talking about that, you know, most in depth,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the biggest investment of an access type of project, which
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: is actually buying a piece of ground. And you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: when I was thinking about I've talked to different real
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: estate agents over the years, and I know a lot
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of folks from a lot of different good agencies out
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: there in groups, there's a lot of good options. But
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: you bring something unique to the table, and not that
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: you know, not only are you a license broker yourself
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: and you're helping folks do this, but you're also talking
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: to a million different people through your own podcast about
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: buying land. So you've got you know, firsthand experience, and
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: then you've also become a student of the game and
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: studying everybody else's so I think you can really give
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: us a unique viewpoint. And so where I kind of
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: want to start it off is, you know, with an
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: anecdote of sorts and that I've got a good friend
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: who is always talking about, you know, how he wants
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: to buy land. He's going to buy land someday. Every
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: year he's like, I'm buying land, I'm buying land. This
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: is the year, go to buy land. And then he
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: never does it. And it's always because ah, things aren't right,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: or ah the Marcus crab, or everything's overpriced, or that
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: there's always something. And so the thing I'm curious about
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: first is when is the right time? How do you
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: know when you should actually jump off this cliff versus
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you know, holding your cars back? Because I think a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: lot of people for years and years and years have
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: had the same question, maybe especially so right now. So
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: what's your takeout the gate on that?
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that's probably the most common
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: inner dialogue and actual dialogue when it comes to talking
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: with about land with someone that hasn't bought one. It's over,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: it's crazy, market's going to crash. You know, this piece
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: isn't a ten out of ten, and it cost, however
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: much money, I'm not going to waste my money on that.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: And I'll tell you this. So I bought my first
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: farm when I was twenty six. I saved literally every
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: single dollar I could live, well blow my means, and
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: even as soon as I got my down payment, I
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: bought a farm. And all those emotions were the same
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: exact things that were going through my mind when I
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: was buying it. And I had helped other people purchase farms,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: and I kind of coach myself, like, because this is
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: in the back of mind, Well, what if a better
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: deal comes up? What if this other farm that is
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: probably never going to sell, but what if it does
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: sell after I just deployed all my capital. Yeah, And
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: so all those things went through my head and I
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: bought it, and I've been super happy, and it's been
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: it's been super rewarding. The market is appreciated since I
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: purchased that. And even then, you know, land is very localized, right,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: and so you can go to the coffee shop, someone
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: buys a piece of ground, there's chatter, oh my gosh,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: that guy crazy. Did you hear what he paid for
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: this farm? And then you just jump forward about five
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: years in the future, which I can do now, and
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: they're like, did you know he bought that for this
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: right man? What a steal man? Why not buy that?
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: And so that is this a common theme over time.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: So I think I think that those emotions in that
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: thought processes for everyone. But I can tell you this
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the people I talked to and personal experience and talking
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: to people that have been owning that's owned farms for decades,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: and it's the same. I bought a farm. It wasn't perfect,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: but I got into it. I made it a little
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: bit better, and then I decided I want to get
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: closer to home, or I wanted something a little bit bigger.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: And it's the same exact person that would maybe not exact,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: but there's a lot of parallels to someone that says
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to buy a house. I'm just gonna rent.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Everything's overpriced, I don't want to live there. And then
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: versus the guy that saves up buys a two bedroom,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: one bath house, puts a new roof on it, puts
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: new siding, updates the kitchen, and they're like, you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: our family's expanding, let's get a little bigger house, they
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: sell that house and they go buy a little bigger house,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: and it's you know, fits their goal is better. And
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: I think that same parallel can follow along when it
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: comes to land ownership. It's not a direct parallel, but
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of the same thought process and everything else.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Because even when you're house shopping right like, well, what
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: if that house on the corner of so and so
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Street I heard they might sell and then they never do.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Like so it's you know, not to ramble too long there,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: but it's it's a natural consumer and consumer behavior and
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: also this human behavior that something better is going to
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: come along when reality work with what's in front of you.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: And you know, if someone has the down payment state up,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: they've done all the due diligence, they've looked at farms,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: and they find one that checks off enough boxes that
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: makes you happy, buy the farm. Buy it. Because I'll
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: tell you this too. It's like when you buy your
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: first farm, you learn, oh, I would never buy a
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: farm that has this type of access or this type
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: of neighbors. And if you wait forever and you you know, hypothetically,
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: if you are just spune enough to be able to
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: save up to buy that really big piece that you've
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: always dreamed of. You might make a giant mistake because
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: you didn't go through the proper channel of try on
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: air throughout that process. So those are just some initial
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: thoughts regarding that.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to dive a little bit more into
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: some of the things you kind of alluded to there
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit kind of around like personal finance and
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: in that kind of situation. But before that, maybe even
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit further up the funnel, is a question
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: of just like who is the right kind of person?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Like who is buying a farm right for?
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, there might be some people who, like everyone
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: dreams of buying a farm like that, that's a dream
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: for everyone, I think, But maybe there's some folks that, hey,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's not the right thing. Maybe there's some folks that, yeah,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: like this is who is I know this is incredibly
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: vague and incredibly general, but who is buying a farm
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: right for?
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a that's a personal, inward looking question
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: I think. I mean, in my mind, I would fall
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: under the I grew up hunting permission farms with fifteen
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: different people on it, and it was a big track
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: and as a kid, you always think, gosh, if I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: could have own if I could own this, or if
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: I could do that, or if I could just have
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: my own piece. And so I think for a lot
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: of people, and this is maybe in a parallel as
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: well as like for someone like Michigan, right like you,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: you probably jones to go hunt the Midwest, right mm hm.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: But for someone that grew up in the Midwest, like myself,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: you are already in a great location. You dream of
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: owning land. So it's like there's so like for you,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: it would be leave Michigan, go to Iowa, and then
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: once you're in Iowa, I want to buy a piece
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: of ground because I want to have control over it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I want to grow giant deer and have the best
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: parcel on the face of the earth, which isn't always
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: the reality of it. So I think, really what it
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: is is someone that when I think is someone that
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: wants to buy land, I think usually it is more
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: than just killing a deer too, because you can go
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: kill a deer in a lot of different locations. It's
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: for someone that wants to spend their weekends working on
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: their farm. It's someone that wants to continue to self
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: educate and learn how to make the habitat the best
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: that it is for beyond white tail, and it just
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: opens up Pandora's box of so many different things that
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: you can never imagine if you just leased or if
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: you just hunted public land. And that's just that's my opinion,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: because that's that's what's happened to me, because you're just like, well,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: how do how do you do this? How do you
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: do that? And then you just get to learn so
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: much more, which makes it so much more fun, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: then you can try different things. And so I think
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: it's for someone that wants a little piece of their
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: own American dream, because I think if we look back
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: at in the age of America, the eighteen sixty law
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: where you go get your forty acres and establish and
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: have your own little piece of heaven and on your ground,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: yeah yeah and literally yeah, so things about that show
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: up and they give it to you. Yeah, And so
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: that's not the case anymore unfortunately. Yeah, but it's it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's rooted in our DNA as like
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: American heritage of you want to on a piece of
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: ground because you want something to call your own, to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: spend time with family, get enjoyment and hopefully, you know,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: spend some time in a tree sand in November. Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So then next, I think the natural question is, Okay,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: if I'm a person who checks all those boxes, I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: want these things. The next thing, and this is a
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I had this same thought process myself was Okay, I
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: want this thing, but when am I ready to do it?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of questions around personal finance
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and when do you know that you can actually afford
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: this kind of thing. I'm the type who came from
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: a very financially conservative family, so the idea of cashing
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: out my life savings to buy a farm or something
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: terrifies me. Kind of feels like I need to be
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: a millionaire before I can afford to buy a twenty
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: acre farm to feel comfortable. Yeah, how do you advise
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: someone think about this? How do you advise somebody look
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: at their own personal finances to determine Okay, yes, I
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: can carve out this to buy a starter farm or something.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: How would you think through that?
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I think one good exercise and this is actually from
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: a guest who has an accounting background, worked at the
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Big four, also a very financially conservative guy. Have become
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: good friends with him, and what his exercise was could
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: definitely afford it. But he basically practiced what his monthly
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: payment would be. So he was saving up his down
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: payment and okay, I think I'm fifteen hundred dollars, let's
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: say is my budget per month for a farm. And
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: so he would continue to save fifteen hundred dollars and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: make sure that you know everything the wife and kids
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: and house and everything's still taken care of, and kind
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: of go through a practice run. And when you realize
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: that there's no pain in that and you can easily
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: do it, you have the margin in your life. I
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: think that's a great way to do a dry run.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: It really is, if you're just practicing that payment and
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: the beautiful thing. Hopefully in your careers, your income is
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: going to accelerate, the land is going to appreciate. Obviously,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: you don't want to count on appreciation, but historically, over
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: a long period of time, you can count on appreciation.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: You can count on forced appreciation. And then I remember
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: sold the farm and it was the guy that started
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: with nothing owns a lot of ground in the area,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: and I was like, how'd you do it? And he's like, well,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I just invest in land because I can control it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: I can prove the soil, I can control my crops,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: you know, to the best of his ability. And he's like,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I was like, do you have any other form of retirement?
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: He's like no, And so like there's all ends of
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: the extremes that I've dealt with of like one hundred
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: percent all in in land, right. And then you have
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: some people who are really successful and it's like they
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: kind of feel like they're cheating on the retirement to
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: buy a farm because they're like, well, it's not going
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: into my four one k and it's going to that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And so I think it comes down to the personal
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: appetite and personal risk tolerance is what it really comes
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: down to. But I think the most practical advice is
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: save up your down payment, maybe figure out whatever your
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: future payment will be in this practice, and then say like, oh, man,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: fifteen hundred might be a little bit too much because
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: the kids are in travel, baseball and blah blah blah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I can only do a thousand. Well, now you know,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: and it's not like you make this huge commitment and
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: now you have to figure out a different way to
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: come up with that deficit. So I think that's probably
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: one of the most practical ways, or just this is
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: the most simple thing. Do a monthly budget and see
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: how much money you have and that's not accounted for
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: is another really easy way. But you know, I just
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: think there's so much emotion to it, and it's so
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: different to what a lot of people think is a
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: good investment. Because you talk to ten different people that
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: have no clue about land and they think you're crazy.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: All you can do is deer hunt on it. Why
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: would you buy that, what's the income? All these different things,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: and then whether it's good or bad. I've talked to
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: so many people that have found so much success in
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: this space that you'd become like, you see, there's another
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: way to do this, and it can be a viable investment.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: It can be a great way to even build some wealth.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: In reality, like, there's just so many different ways to
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: do it. It's and that's the beauty of it. It's
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: like there's so many different ways to do it. You
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: can buy your forty and be happy with it and
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: own it for fifty years and give it to your kids,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: or you can continue to snowball and build up to
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: something like Bill Winki, for example, like a really good
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: example of that that a lot of people would be
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: aware of. Yeah, so.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Is there any kind of data out there as far
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: as averages either by state or region or anything as
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: far as like how the market has appreciated over time?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Like what an what kind of expectations could I have
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: if I were to invest in the land. You know,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I know it fluctuates, I know it can change, but
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: like a ten year average is is it like an average? Okay,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: it's usually appreciating five percent, ten percent, twelve. I'm thinking
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: like if someone's thinking about, okay, how would I compare
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and contrast an investment in land versus an investment in
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the market where you can expect four or five six
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: percent whatever it is annually? How might land be the
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: same or different?
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so farmland traditional farmland, you can see anywhere between
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: an appreciation historically of ten to thirteen percent. And so
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: that's a headline. So does that include the commodity of
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: cash rent or growing those crops? But regardless, as an average,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: as a rule of thumb, five to seven percent of
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: annual appreciation is what we can what we can expect.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Now we are leaving in my opinion, we are leaving
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: a historical, historical run of land values. During you know,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: the pandemic era, land appreciated so insane quick across the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: entire country, all forms of real estate, right. And I
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: remember talking to some really sharp people and they're like, well,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: inflation's out of control, and the best hedge against inflation
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: is land. So there was a lot of people with
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of money that were really smart, and a
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: lot of investment firms that went and bought a lot
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: of farm ground. And when there's limited supply and a
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: lot of demand, you can imagine what happens. And when
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: commodity prices were really high. So like in my opinion,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: we saw a really strong, extremely strong run of land
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: prices across the board. And I think we're getting back
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: to reality to where maybe we can expect a flat
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: here or two. But if you had a ten year
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: period anywhere between five and seven percent, I think is
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a fair rule of thumb. Now, another thing that I
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: personally love about land is the stock market is an
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: extremely extremely efficient market. You have algorithms, you have the
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: smartest people on the face of the earth on Wall Street.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: You have so many things that are out of you
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: and i's control were lying on other people. Then you
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: have rural land, which has become way more efficient than
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: someone like a Dan Perez in the nineties, like you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: like it has become more efficient, but it is not
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: nearly as efficient as the stock market. When there's inefficiencies
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: in a market, you can hedge to get more equity
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: out of something. So I think that's something to really
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: look at, is it's still historically an inefficient market to
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: get the whatever the max price is for a lot
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: of different parcels across the country. So hypothetically, if you
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: do your homework, you do your due diligence, you find
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: someone that is really familiar with an area and say, hey,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: this one is five percent below market, ten percent below market,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: but you can catch that up really fast. And then
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: unlike the video, and you don't know if there's going
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: to be a war in Taiwan, like that's out of
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: all of our control. But you can put up a gate,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: you can improve a property, you can improve the access,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you can do all these different things. And to me,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: that's what I find a lot of freedom in is
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: like you have control over your own destiny, and if
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: you're confident with your own decision making. Then for those
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: bad do you have no one else to play but yourself,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: unlike a stock market.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a really good point.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So you bring up some things related to this historic run.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: We've been on.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: What's your read on the market today and looking forward
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: the next I don't know, three months, six months, twelve months.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: If someone's listening to this and thinking about buying, you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I'll go back to to like my friend. My friend
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: has been talking about how the market's crazy, the interest
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: rates are crazy, how could anyone buy land right now?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: But then I always worry. My other friends were like, man,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the best time to buy land is always yesterday, right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Everyone always says you should have bought it last year,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: You should have bought it yesterday. Like, if you keep
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: on pushing it out into the future, you'll never do it.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So what's your take on the situation right now in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the foreseeable future.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of people in when this
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: crazy run was happening, a lot of people made a
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: lot of money. There's no secret to that. I mean
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: we can look on social and see a lot of
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: people that made a lot of money throughout this run.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: And I feel like there were speculators rather than investors,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: and it was very easy at that time because money
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: was cheap. Land prices went up. And so for your
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: friend that said for the last five years he was
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: going to buy a farm, he's going to buy a farm,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: and he knows he wants to keep it for five years,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: six years, buy the farm if he buys it, and
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: he's like, I think I'm going to turn this thing
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: around and I'm going to do this, this, this, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I'm going to sell it tomorrow. Don't do that. I
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: don't think that's a great idea. And so that's kind
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: of my general rule is a lot of people I
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: asked them, how long do you think you'll have that piece?
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: And if they say, I don't know, maybe hunt for
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: a year and then sell it after that. I don't
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: have the utmost conviction that's a great plan right now.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Just because of the situation right now.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, the interest rates. So let's say someone
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: thinks that they someone like, I'm going to make three
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: hundred dollars an acre on that farm. I'm going to
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: do this, this, this, and sell for three hundred dollars
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: an acre more than what I bought it for. If
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: you're borrowing money, you're probably not going to make hardly
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: any money period because of eight percent interests or primes
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: eight and a half percent. And so to relay that,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: back when it was three and a half four percent,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: you could buy twice the size of the farm. So
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: your buddy that should have bought a farm, he could
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: have bought twice the size of the farm that he
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: could buy today. That's how much purchasing power he has lost.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: And tell me it was crazy then, and you're locked
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: into that. And so I think the general market overview,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I don't want to predict anything, but I can tell
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you this from here in ILLINOI quarter four of last
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: year to quarter one today, class A tillable is down
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: almost one thousand dollars an acre on average cross the entire state.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: And so like that, that commodity price corn is down
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: about thirty percent from where it was last year. It's
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: down almost fifty percent from when it was that it's
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: peaking in April of twenty two. Beans are down I
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: want to say, like twenty percent or something like that too.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: So it's like commodity prices have really like that. There's
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: some people that view that ag Land is like the
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: gold standard of land, right, and so like if AG struggles,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: and a lot of these pieces are mixed use properties
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: where it's thirty percent tillable forty percent tillable, so like,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: if AG goes down, hypothetically, recreational land prices should go
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: down to However, year to date, from quarter to four
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: of last year, recreational land has actually continued to accelerate,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: which is interesting, and so I don't know if there's
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: a lagging period there, But those twenty to sixty acre properties,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: there's still a lot of people that can't afford those,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: and there's a lot of cash out there too, So
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: it's like the average household is probably feeling the pinch
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: of inflation, but there's a lot of people that haven't
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: felt that, and they look at this as a buying opportunity.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: So it's really hard to say what will happen. It's
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: really hard to say. We're supposed to have multiple rate
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: cuts this year. We haven't had a single one yet.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: We don't even know if one's going to come in September,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: and so there's this a lot of uncertainty in the market,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: which could be good if you're very confident in your
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: plan if you are a newbie and you don't have
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: someone in your corner and you don't really know what's
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: going on, I would probably follow some level of uncertainty.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: But if you've been shopping, you've been waiting, you've been
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: this has been your dream, don't let those outside forces
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: stop you from sticking to your plan. Like, it's your plan.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: It's not the averages, it's not it's your plan. It's
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: what you want to buy, it's what you want to
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: keep for five years, six years, seven years, then do it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So I think that's the best way to look at
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: It's like, look at it is an investment, not a speculation.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: It's the best way to say it.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is the again, this is not the
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: short term turn and burn market right now. But if
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: this is like the hey, I want to get a
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: place and have it for a while and then maybe
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: five years down the road, you know, flip and grow
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: like okay, yeah, go for it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I think that's always a great plan.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I think that's always been a great plan. And I
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: think that when like Warren Buffett or like there's all
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: these different things like where you look at if you
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: put money in the s and p five hundred. The
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: chances that you lose money in a week is whatever,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: and then you look at it for a month and
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: then one year, five year, ten year, twenty year. It's
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a similar thought process with land, and I think that's
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: the easiest way to illustrate it because that's how people
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: are familiar.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Yep, that makes sense. Now, please forgive my ignorance, But
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I have not bought land myself, so I've never had
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to look into this. But what about refinancing on a
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: land purchase, Like, is it just like refining on a
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: house or is there something different? Because imagine some people
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: are thinking, Okay, I'll buy my land now, I'll get
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: a mortgage at eight percent because I have to, but
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: hopefully four years from now I can refinance when it's
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: more reasonable.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Is that yeah, Yeah, that's definitely, yeah, that's definitely a
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: viable option. It depends on who your lender is and
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: everything else. Which this is probably the biggest piece of
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: advice when it comes to buy land. Everyone wants to
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: shop for a parcel, right. Everyone wants to go look
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: at all these farms. Call at least five different banks
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: or credit unions. Call at least five explain what you're doing,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: find a bank that understands what understands land, understands what
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: you're trying to do, and shop rates because they can
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: be a lot different. I mean, the first farm I bought,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: I had to put thirty percent down. It was a
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: high rate, and then I ended up finding a bank
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: just through work. And if I buy anything else, I'm
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: going to go through you guys, because they're the most competitive,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: easiest to deal with a lower down payment, And so
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's a very key important piece here to
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: talk to multiple banks and find someone that understands what
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: you're trying to do before you go find a piece,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: fall in love with it, and then you call your
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: local bank that you've banked there since you were a kid,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: and got a you know, a ten hour to deposit
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: into it. Like call some more banks, all right, because
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: that's just as important as getting a good deal arguably,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Like if you can save a percent on a purchase
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: of that size, it makes it makes it a huge difference.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you can definitely refinance. Something that's also interesting
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: is land loans. A lot of times are arm loans,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: so suggestible rate mortgage, so sometimes that's a three year
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: arm loan or a five year, ten year, seven fifty.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: So that's something you have to this. When you call
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: the bank, say tell me sound real smart, say this,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: tell me a little bit more about your products. They
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: love when you say that, tell me a little bit
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: more about your products. You guys just give me money,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: but tell me tell me about your loan products. Like,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, So that's something that I would just ask.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: And so thirty year fixed rates probably going to be higher.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: But there's just so many different things that go on
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: with what's happening to prime and how you know the
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: bank is borrowing money from another bank in order to
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: give you money, and so they have to get martgage
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: on it. So call out of banks, be prepared to
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: refinance if you need to, or keep saving money and
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: keep looking because there's something's going to come along eventually.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Are there any other things along those lines that a
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: first time buyer oftentimes is not aware of, or hasn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: thought about, or is not prepared for. But that would
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: be very useful to know before taking this leap.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of it is probably bank specific.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: If you're self employed, you have a little bit more
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: going against you, is the reality of it. But I
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: would say, plan on having twenty twenty five percent ready
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: for a down payment, ask them about their loan products,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: way out, whatever you think is the best one for you,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: and shop around. I think that's probably the most important thing.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: And ask these people are here to help you. They're
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: here to earn your business, right, they want you to
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: do business with them, And say and ask them what
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: advice do you have? What what are some things I
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: should look at? And so because a lot of these
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: bankers do they specialize in land, and they are familiar
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: with the market, and a lot of times their opinion
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: isn't probably my opinion, but you can get their opinion too.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Is just another data point. So I think those are
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: the biggest things. Shop chopper, a lender understanding you have
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: a down payment. The biggest thing debt to income ratio.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: You got a sixty seventy thousand dollars truck sitting in
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: your park, in your garage, and you pay fifte hundred
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: dollars a month on that. That's your first farm. It's
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: sitting in your garage instead of on ther I think
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: that's probably the hardest thing for a lot of people
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: to really realize. And I truly believe and that's part
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: of the reason why I started a land podcast is
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: I talked to so many people that, like the friend
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: you mentioned, I would always love to own a piece
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: of ground, and you start learning it's way more accessible
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: than what you probably realized right here today. It's not
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: going to happen by accident, but you can do some
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: small things in your life to figure out how to
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: get to that point. And it might not happen in
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: a year. It might take two or three years for
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: you to get to where you're at, but you can
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: definitely do it. I firmly believe everyone can own land
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: if there make some microadjustments in their personal finance or
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: in their life, if it's that big of a priority.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I truly believe everyone can own a piece of ground
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: at some point in their lifetime. And so to me,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: that's liberating, right because a lot of people are just programmed, well,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I wish I was born into a farming family,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: or I wish I hit the lottery, or I wish
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I did this, or I wish I did that, but
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: wishing and just put together a plan and get there,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: because you can do it. If I growing up, I
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: just dreamed of owning a farm like that was like
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: no matter five ac or ten acres, twenty whatever. It
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: was like that was my goal and it was way
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: more accessible than I think everyone realizes. And so I
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: just I just want to champion everyone of not to
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: get discouraged and not to say, oh, I would be
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: really cool to own a piece. If you want one,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: you can do it. I guarantee it.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that a lot of folks
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: consider if they're you know, on the fence about this,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and it's it feels like a financial stretch a little bit.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: One of the common piece of advice that we'll hear
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: is is look at ways to derive income from your property,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: so you know, essentially find ways to get dividends of
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: a sort from it. You can either you know, put
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: crop into or put put land into production, lease out
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: your ground for for row crappers, uh, do a timber
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: harvest on the property, sign up for some kind of
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: government program, all that kind of stuff. There's options, but
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, you know, if if the headline is like, hey,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: you can make money off your property through all these
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: different things, and I think most people know like that's
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: an option, But when you get into the nitty gritty
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: of it. You know, how does someone go about assessing
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: the potential, like before they buy and they're thinking, like, Okay,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: can I can I afford this farm? I think I
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: can maybe afford it, But but man if I could
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: make some money off the timber, and if I could
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: make some money, if I could get this in the quip,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: or if I could get this in CRP or something
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: that I've heard about on this podcast, and all of
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: a sudden it was bringing in another eight hundred bucks
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: a month that might help a lot. Like how does
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: someone actually figure that out? Because there's a lot of
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: like hypotheticals like yeah, do this, do this, But then
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: when it comes down to the brass tacks, how realistic
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: is that? How do you figure any of that out
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: before you buy the place?
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a that's important of having an agent. For sure.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: I hate to be the guy that like champions the
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: industry here, but you need a good agent. No, no,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: But in all seriousness, those are really good points. And
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: so I think that a lot of people just know
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: that to your point, the very surface, they know what
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: it is and they maybe can tell you a sentence
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: or two about it. Yeah, but just because something is
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: in CRP and it's not going to be compliant or
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: eligible for re enrollment, then like you need to call
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: the NRCS office in the FSA office and say hey,
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: you get an FSA release form from the sellers and say, hey,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I need to know is this potentially eligible for re
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: enrollment or so just to break down so like cash rent,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: if a piece that is recreational, usually there's not gonna
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: be a bunch of farmers that are super excited at
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: farming in a lot of parts of the country. It's
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: more of like they're doing you a favorite of farming.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: That's been my experience on multiple pieces. And so just
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: because everyone has such yeah everyone has giant equipment, and
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: you know there's just so many it's like, yeah, I
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: will farm. It's kind of what it feels like a
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: lot of times when you talk to pull my arm. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Now that might be different if you're looking at a
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: different type of farm. But you know, for someone that's
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: looking at a forty and there's ten acres of tollable
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: on it, your highest income is probably going to come
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: from CRP. Now you have to own that farm for
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: one year before you enroll CRP. So if you buy
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: it and you think, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna get
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: CRP payments right away, you need to own it for
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: a year before you go into enrollment, and so that's
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: really important. The other thing too, is asked to have
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: cropp in history. So let's say someone bought it and
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: they put it it was in pasture before, and then
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: they bought it, they put it into beans, and then
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: they're selling it and you think, oh, I can put
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: it in the CRP next year, you wouldn't because the
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be enough cropping history. So that's where there's a
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: lot of things that go into this to really get
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: a full full idea and plan and utilize those free
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: resources like the USDA office provides. That's their job, that's
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: they have that information for you. So I think that's
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: probably one of the biggest things. And a lot of
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: recreational farms you are lucky if you can get a
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: quote unquote three percent return, like you'd be lucky now.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Back in the day when land was a little bit
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: cheaper and there was better CRP payments relative to the
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: price of land, it was easier to get that. But
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: most recreational farms are probably looking at one to two
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: and a half percent in reality as a law of average.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Can you can you explain what you're saying when you
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: say you're getting one to two percent that is cash.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so meaning okay, so forty acres and I don't
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: know if it's actually going to pens on to the
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: percentage range that I'm providing. But let's say forty forty
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: acres for two hundred thousand dollars and there's ten acres
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: on it, and you're getting two hundred dollars an acre
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: of a CRP payment, So that'd be one percent. That's
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: probably reminiscent to what most people are going to look at.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: So in reality, in my opinion, most of it's like
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: it's gonna help pay for food plots, eater, It's gonna
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: help pay for whatever I'm going to put onto it,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and so it's hard. Now, there's different parts that like
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: to me, like the best. If you're a guy that
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: said I need to scratch my investment itch and my
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: hunting itch, the best everyone wants a big block of timber.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I know that for fact. Everyone everyone wants a big
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: block of timber because I think that's the best. If
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: that is you. I would look at a marginal tillable
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: type ground that could be enrolled in a CRP or
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: a CRP farm, and I'm talking eighty acres and it's
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: got two ditches in it or three ditches in it
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: in a place to have a couple stands. It's gonna
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: be an easy farm to probably burn out, but you're
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: going to have the income from the CRP and that's
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: going to help you, you know, maybe buy a little
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: bit bigger farm. So I think that's something too, is
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: whatever you have in your mind, you have to be
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: able to be flexible. If you want to have the
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: investment type piece, then you're going to have to have
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: something on there. And you brought op timber, and I
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: think that's a great point. And this is just my opinion.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people look at that as
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: a land shortcut, and I don't think it's probably the
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: best thing for the timber that's on it. So there's
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: a study out of a University of Iowa and black
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: walnuts outpaced the S and P five hundred historically. So
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: when you chop down that tree that has a you know,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Steve Hansen and Skip have both given very similar independent
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: opinions on this topic. I've spent time with both of them,
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: and they both almost gave you the same concept of it's
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: like shooting one hundred and sixty inch three year old,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: like you know, cutting a young timber. So like people
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: look at that and they're like, oh, man, I can
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: you know my down payment's forty thousand, and I can
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: you know, get however much money from a timber cut,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: when in reality, if you waited ten years, you could
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: have got drastically more. So I think it's a good
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: thing to have in your toolbox. It's something to consider.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: I think you really need to talk to a forester
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: and get a professional's opinion. Except I think that here
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: I could walk fifteen farms and one of them is like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, there's some timber value on this. Because everyone
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: has the same concept of the short sided mind of
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: like I'm gonna go in there and buy and I'm
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: gonna get all the trees out of it, and I'm
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: going to get some money back. In reality, if you
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: were truly trying to scratch that investment, it's you were
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: going to actually do a crop release, let those trees
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: continue to grow, take care of them, and let them
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: grow and then that value doesn't leave, right, Like that
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: tree is there barring a thunderstrike hits it or a
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: tornado rips through it, but like that value is going
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: to continue to grow. And to me, that's something that
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: needs to be protected rather than exploited. And that's just
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: what my gut says. Like there's a million there's a
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: lot of ways to find success to what you want
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: to do. But that's just my public disclaimer of think
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: twice before you just try to extract all the value
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: out of the trees, because I think it's, in my opinion,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: being exploited. And is it?
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Is it something that is commonly like accepted practice to
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: get a forester out there with you before you purchase
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: a piece of ground, like tell your agent or tell someone, hey,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in buying this, but I want a forester's perspective.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Can you get away with that kind of thing? Or
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: I think it probably dependent on the seller. I think
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: some sellers will be open to that. And here's the
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: reality of but two, it's like we're all dealing with
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: different personalities, right. You can have some super relaxed sellars
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: and then you can have some people that are really
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: uptight and so I think that's probably dependent on the
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: type of seller, and I think I'm not anything close
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: to a forester, but I can at least give you
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: a starting point or a springboard of like, yeah, you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: this is a really good example of one that has
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: some value now but will be exponentially worth more in
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: however many years, and when you go to sell that, right,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: that value isn't gone. You can portray that value to
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: the next guy. Sure, So I think that's just really important,
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: but it is certainly a good option. Though. If you
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: buy a piece and it's a that tree's gonna die
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: because it's so old and big, then yeah, that makes sense,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: But don't kill the three year old one hundred and
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: sixty inchier like you don't want you don't want to
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: do that.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, So you can. You can lease out
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: your ground to a farmer. You can put it into
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: a government program and get a payment. You can look
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: into some kind of timber harvest if appropriate. Are there
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: any other revenue opportunities with a piece of recreational ground
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: that you've found that's actually a reasonable opportunity for someone
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to look at if they're trying to figure out how
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: they can make this work financially, Yeah.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: I think yeah, equip equip is an excellent, probably underutilized
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: government tool to get some income from a piece. I
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: wouldn't really necessarily say it's true income, but it's kind
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: of like you're getting paid to improve the parcel. And
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: so you can do exotic removal and basis species removal.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: You can get paid paracor to do that. And that's
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: something you don't have to wait to own it for
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: a year. That's something you could apply right away. Now
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: there's application periods, but that's something you could start working
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: on the day you buy it. And so there's there
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: are so many different EQUIP projects that you can do.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: I've done and basis species remove, I've done tree planning,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: drug planning, and there's there is a lot of them.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you there is a pile, there's uh
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: bird houses, there's brush piles, there's erosion control, there's there's
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of different things. Now you're not going to
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: get rich from any of this, but it could help
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: improve the parcel. And if you do the labor yourself,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: then you can put a little money into your pocket.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: And so I think that's really important. And then I
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: mean some of the more obvious ones. If you don't
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: like turkey hunting, you can lease the turkey hunting rights.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I think another thing is if you buy one with
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: a house on it, you could parcel off the house
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: and sell the house or rent the house or airbnb
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: in the house and you know, block out those dates
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: when you're going to be there hunting it. I think
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: another one that is probably more advanced, but something to consider.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: There's no secret there's a lot of solar panels going up.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: If you can find a farm that has three phase
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: power running near near it with a substation with a
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: capacity to add a solar panel system, that could be
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: a home run. Now it's very, very very specific and
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: you're gonna need to utilize some experts on that, but
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: that's another more out of the box idea that you
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: could at least consider. And so those are those are
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: some of the biggest ones. But I think the biggest
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: thing is buying a farm for a fair price. I mean,
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: that's that's really what it boils down to, and then
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: just figuring out what you can afford. I mean, if
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: you are if you're that tight, where twenty bucks an
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: acre cash rent is going to make or break you.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: You're probably spending too much money. So I think that's
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: probably the biggest thing too, is like, don't be so
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: shortsighted that you have to exploit your land in order
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: to pay for it. Like you bought it. You want
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: to be a good steward of it. You want to
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: take care of it. You want to this is what
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: you dreamed of, Right, do you want to go degrade
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: it in order to pay for it? I wouldn't personally.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, I want to play game, ah jake,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: what Yeah, I want to call it green light, red light?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Walk me through some green lights and some red lights.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: When it comes to a farm, if you're shopping for
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: a farm, you're out there, you're looking at pieces, you're
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: walking pieces, or you're looking online listings, what would be
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: some of the top things that would give you like
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: that ooh yes, green means go kind of feeling. And
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: what are some of the top things, especially things that
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: maybe people overlook that would be hey, red light, tap
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: the brakes. This is concerning.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: When we start with a green light or red light.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: First, let's start with the greens, because people want to
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: be excited and want to buy a farm. So we'll
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: get them all excited like, yes, you can buy, and
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: then you can confront them with the reality of the
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: red lights.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think number one of the most obvious green
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: lights and probably something that I have noticed a trend
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: of people being way more focused on access, you know,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: whatever the predominant wind is, that's what they really really want.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: So I think that's probably one of the biggest things
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: of looking at, is this access suitable to your goals,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: because I think that is one of the most important
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: things here too. Everyone in the head things they need
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: to buy a farm of kill booters. There's not a
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: lot of farms that can truly produce that. If someone
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: tells you that they're lying mean opinion, they're not hiding
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: behind every tree in Illinois. No, I can tell you that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I could tell you that for a fact. Now there's
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: some farms that So I think just to establish the
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: red light green light, Like if your goal you have
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: a ten year old son and you want to go
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: on the weekends and help with your son and have
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: quality time in the summer and everything else, your green
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: light and red lights are gonna be different than a
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: guy that really really wants to kill butter. So we'll
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: just talk to the average guy here, because I think
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: that's where most of us are. Access is huge. I
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: think another green light is it within two hours of
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: your primary residence where you plan on going to look
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: at it, because I think a lot of people, depending
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: on what part of the country, and man, this farm
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: that's seven hours away is thirty percent cheaper than the
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: farm that's an hour away, they buy the one that's
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: seven hours away. Like, we didn't really go down as
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: often as we wanted to, or the kids and wife
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: didn't want to go down there as often. So I
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: think two hours is kind of the cap where I
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: think you sure your radius should be. So that's another
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: green light. Oh it's within two hours of my I
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: think another thing too, is obviously greenlight. I can afford
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: this based off of the income or based off of
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: the price of it. And I think this is also
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: dependent on what you're like, the type of buyer that
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: you are. If you are young, energetic, you you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: I hear this all the time. I want something that
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: I can put my DNA on or put my fingerprint on,
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: or I want to develop it. I want to I
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: want to raw piece of land. So a green light
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: could be not a really great listing, maybe a scanned
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: image of the map of the property, and you're like, oh, man, okay,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: there's a chance that you know this is a family
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: friend that's selling this for them. So I think that
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: could be a green light. I think sometimes the crappier
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: the listing, the more excited I get as a as
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: a shopper. There's some benefits of a really nice listing.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: I mean I would if there was an amazing farm
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: that was marketed really well and I was in the
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: market and checked off all my green lights, I would
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: be excited. But I think that's something that that people
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: can get excited about of like ooh, talking about inefficiencies
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: in the market, right, this is an inefficiency of marketing
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: this property. And if I can go walk it and
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: see that you know this this fallow field is actually
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: recorded f s a acres and I can get back
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: into production no problem, or all these different things. So
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: those are some other green lights. Another one is I
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: know that farm's in a great neighborhood based off of
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: my own knowledge or my agent's own knowledge of yes,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: this isn't a good neighborhood. I think those are some
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: other other bigger green lights. I'm trying to think of
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: anything more out of the box that would be a green.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Light before you're While you're doing that, I'd love a
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: little bit more thought on the neighborhood thing, because I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: think that's one of those things that like has been
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: drilled home, Like we know we need to be in
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: a good neighborhood. I've learned that myself, and I think
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's great in practice and it makes a lot
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: of sense, but I think sometimes it's easier said than done.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, have you found.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Any tricks to the trade as far as how to
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: get a better assessment on that? If you're not from
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the area and you don't know these people, and maybe
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: your agent doesn't like know them firsthand, how do you
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: go about getting a feel for man, is this a
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: good situation I'm getting into or is this going to
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: be a mess?
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: I think one thing you could do is walk the
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: property edges of walk the boundaries of the property and
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: see how many stands there are, what type of stands
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: are they. I mean, that sounds really bad, like of
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: profiling another hunter, but it's it's it's kind of the
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: fact of it. Yeah, if they're all double buddy stands
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: ten feet off the ground. They're probably not going to
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: be the best neighbors. I hate to say that, but
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: they might be great people, but if your goals aren't align,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: they're probably not going to be your best friend, and
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: so go ahead.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Well, so that that brings up another question though, So
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: this is something I've debated debated myself, which is would
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I rather be surrounded by a bunch of not serious
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: hunters who might not have the same goals as me?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: But like, so the downside of that would be like, Okay,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: they're gonna shoot every young buck and they're never going
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: to pass on the deer I want to pass. But
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: the upside might be that they're not very good at
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: hunting or that they don't take as serious and I
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: might have a better chance, you know, to kill the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: one big deer in the area because you know, I
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: put a more time effort. YadA, YadA, YadA. Now the
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: flip side is like, do you want to live in
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Mark Jury's neighborhood? Where might righte? Mark Jury and Jeff
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Lindsay and all these guys around there have got the
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: most incredibly managed farms. They're all managing for big deer
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: and they're all really invested in it, right, But the
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: same time, you're surrounded by people that really know what
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: they're doing. What which is better? Like I've kind of done,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I've had both. I would I haven't been neighbored with
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: mark jury, but I've been neighbored for someone that is, uh,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: maybe as serious as that person. Yeah, and it is
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: a little debilitating where you know, if you have a
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: big deer, your odds of killing that deer are very low. Now,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: the good thing is there's a lot of deer that
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: they probably wouldn't want to shoot that or mature and
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: still make me happy versus I've hunted farm. Further is
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: it's heavily hunted, and I don't spend many time much
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: time on those farms because there's not a deer to
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: the age class that I would like. So I think
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: if you would ask that question in like the early
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: two thousands or nineties, when we didn't have cell cameras,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: we didn't have all these different tools to make not
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: so serious hunters more proficient to kill like a solid buck,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: and there's nothing wrong with that, But if your definition
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: of what you want to shoot is, you know, slightly
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: above that solid bucker older than three years old. I
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: think the three year olds have gotten easier to kill
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: with all the tools that are available, so I think
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: that has probably changed.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: I think i'd rather have I would definitely rather have
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Mark Curi or someone like that as my neighbor, because
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: I think that there's gonna be it's gonna be a
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: more target rich environment, there's gonna better age class. You
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: know that you're gonna be healthy because they're taking spending
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: a lot of money, leaving a lot of crops, and yeah,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: will you ever compete with them, Probably not on a
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: smaller parcel, but you kind of get the fringe benefits
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: of what they have going on. Yeah, Versus opening day
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: of gun season and you get cell camp pictures of
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: the deer. You're hoping, oh man, I hope he makes
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: it through, and then the exactly it's like, this is
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: the last picture I ever get of that deer. That's
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: the last picture I ever get of that deer. And
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: to me, that's more frustrating than like, Hey, congratulates, since
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: you shot a giant, you did all the work. I'm
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: really really happy for you. So so to summarize, I'd
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: rather have the super serious name.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So were there any other major green lights
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: or kind of under the radar green lights that you
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: wanted to mention or do you want to do you
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: want to move over to some of these red light situations.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: I think another green light is as you're walking it,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: seeing the sign and I think that's obviously a good thing,
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: and there's there's actually been a lot of farm for like,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: I know there was a big deer on that farm
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: just from Hearsay, just from and you walk it and
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: there's not that much sign on it, but you know
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: that deer had spent a lot of time on that farm.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: And then there's other ones where you walk it and
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: you're like, wow, this is tore up. There's got to
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: be giants on there, and then there isn't. So I
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: think that's something that like, as a if you're ate
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: up enough to save up a bunch of money and
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: you know the bloy capital to buy a farm, you
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: probably have your own spidy sense of white tail hunting.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Trust your gut. I think, like, don't trust the agent blindly,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: don't trust the seller blindly, follow your own gut. I
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: think that's probably just another your own internal green light.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: But then we can we can talk about red flax.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: There's quite a few, quite a few of those. Two.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's let's uh put some reality in front
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: of us here. What are some of those things that
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: should be at least I'm the type of person that
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: when I want something, like when I when I kind
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: of like I could see myself at some point when
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: I'm if I'm gonna do this, and I decide, Okay,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: now is the time to buy a piece of ground.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Once I make that, once I flip that switch, I'm
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: gonna want to fall in love with something and I'm
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: gonna fall in love with it hard and fast, and
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be like, oh no, this is this is
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: the right neighborhood, this is this is the thing. It's
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: got that sweet little crp field the middle that I've
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: always wanted. Like, I'm sure there's certain buttons that a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: property could push that would have so much sex appeal
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: to me that I would be willing to like gloss
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: over certain other things because I do you know what
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: I'm getting at, Like, I can see myself falling for
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: that kind of situation. So what are those red lights
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: that that I cannot overlook, that I can't gloss over
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: that I can't you know, they can't put lipstick on
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: this pig kind of situation.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're you're buying the sizzle, not the steak.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: Is like famous thing there. So I think I think
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: some red some red lights in general, and this this
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: may fall more over under like a beige flag. Right,
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: So we've all done this. So you're looking on land
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: Watch or wherever and you see this price, like, man,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: this thing is half the price of everything else. Yeah,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: click it, and they're like, oh, it's in w RP.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: So it's in the wet end Reserve Program, which means
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: that you're very limited. It's not a bad buy if
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: if your only goal is deer hunting, but you're limited
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: on what you can do yet if you get approval
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: to put you to put in a food pot and
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: all these different things. So that's something that I think
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: is just a general beage flag. Like if something is
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: priced extremely half of market, it's probably in WRP, or
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: it's in CREP, which is an easement that you couldn't
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: build on it, all these different things. So that's something
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: just to consider as a beige beige flag. I think
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: some other red flags. If I walked by and there's fence.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: There's seventeen tree stands on the fence line. I with
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: most people that are buying forty to eighty acres, you're
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: not gonna win that battle. Man, Like you can do
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: all the TSI, all the food plots in the world,
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: You're gonna be You're gonna be frustrated, I think. And
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: that's not what you want, right Like, you want to
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: buy this and be happy. There's gonna be ups and
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: downs just like anything, but you're probably not gonna be happy.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: So that's a that's a pretty pretty big red flag.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: I think some other ones that are you kind of
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: have to get a trained die, like if it has
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: epa risk, like there's been a couple run ins there
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: where it's like this is probably too good to be true,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: or there's probably more more to the story here, and
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: that's something else to consider. So how would you know?
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: It's my gut feeling, what's one of them? I walked.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: I walked one farm, which I talked about on the
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: Land podcast, but basically this farm came up and it
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: was pretty close to me, and I went and walked it,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: and uh, it was really weird. This felt, Yeah, some
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: some feels off, like on the some of the hillside
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: there was really old growth, and up top it was
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: all really younger growth, like thirty forty year old trees,
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: the trees that are typically there when there's been disturbance.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: This top knob was all switch grass, which is clearly okay.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: This was some sort of remediation. It ended up being
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: an old area where the soil was contaminating, and so
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: now granted you could have bought it and still would
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: have been okay, but that was something I didn't want
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: to do it. There was another, more recently, a really
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: sweet farm, really sweet farm. Client text me about it.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, we need to go look at it.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: And it's next to a place where they used to
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: make explosives. And then you start doing some due dilts,
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: you do some googling, and you're like, oh, there might
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: be some EPA issues here, and so like that's something
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: you don't want to mess with. I mean to me, like,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of upside reward if everything's good, but
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: there's also if this is your first farm, probably suggests
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: you to avoid that. There was one that I went
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: looked at it. It was an old it was an
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: old landfill, and I was like, oh, sweet thousand bucks
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: an acre and you go walk in and then you
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: do some due diligence, you call the EPA off it's like, yeah,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: it's not in compliance, and there could be a million
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: dollars of remediation. You get it up the code and
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: trying like okay, well that's not it. And then so
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: like what people would do is they would just buy
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: it in different LLCs and like do some sort of
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: shell like it was someone bought it and they let
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: it go to a tax sale and then someone else
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: bought it and then they resold it. So those are
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: like some really kind of more I would say advanced
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: red flags. I think most people will be able to
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: catch on to that, no problem. But I think another
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: thing is access for sure. I think one one red
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: flag is a lot of farms sometimes gets split up
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: and the tillable gets sold, and then you have one long,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: skinny access point all the way through there. So in
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: the morning you're gonna scare deer walking in. In the evening,
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: you're gonna scare deer walking out. And unless you have
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: a really good plan for screening your access, that's a
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: battle that I'm not sure if you can really win.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: So I think that's that's another really big one. And
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: I look, I love looking at farms like I geek
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: out look at all the time online shopping. Yeah, for sure.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: And so I think another like more red flag is
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: typically these are in all caps mature trees, giant bucks,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: turnkey and you know, okay, there's maybe mature trees, but
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: are they cottonwoods or is there really giant bucks because
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: what you might call giant buck and what I call
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: giant buck might be two completely different things. Or turnkey
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: is another big one too. It's like, so what makes
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: it truly turn key? Because they put in a clover
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: plot in a box line, or because like there's a
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: million things you can do to your farm, right like
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: quite literally maybe a million, And so like if it's
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: just two or three things, is it really turn key?
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: And are you paying a premium for a non premium property?
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: And I think this is another potential red flag is
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: like people talk about a fliphouse, or they talk about
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: like the the landlord painting the outlets white, like everything
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: is just white. Don't buy a farm that was this
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: painted white completely everywhere with really bright lights to make
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: it look awesome. So I think those are kind of
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: they're red flags. But if the if it's price right,
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: like I would buy anything or encourage you. I want
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: to buy anything if it's price right. So I think
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: that's like what is the farm and how does it
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: really fit into the market and is it fair? And
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: so that's the easiest way to say that, But it's
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: kind of dynamic. But those are some general some general
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: red flags. Or in some parts of the country, if
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: there's an oil rig on it in the heart of
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: the farm and they got a drive in there every
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: single day, in and out, like you canna be happy
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: with that, right? So yeah, there's wind turbines, Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: I on a farm that had a wind turbine on
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: it and it was just all day. Did you go
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: to sleep and you still hear it? Yeah?
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Did you find did you ever have issues with like
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: you know, folks coming in checking on those that the
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: utility trucks and stuff, or I always wondered, I've had
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: a bunch of those put up in some of the
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: areas that I hunt, and I've wondered, like, gosh, what
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: if that happens to one of the.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: Pieces that I hunt. Well, the dear.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: I imagine the deer get used to it to a degree,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: but I could also see like every time they come
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: in that buck will jump back eighty yards. And how
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: many hunts might that mess up?
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: You know? Have you experienced it? I hunted a couple
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: of times. I'm like, I'm over this place because it
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: it didn't have the It didn't it wasn't you know.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Like I'm a big advocate of like we only have
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: so many days in November, so many days in October,
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: and if I don't feel really good about it, I
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: don't want to spend time there. Ye, So yeah, I
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: think that. But here's the thing. So it's like this
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: is this goes back to the investment versus hunting. What
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: if you buy that and you get a letter from
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: a windmill company and say, hey, we're gonna pay you
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: fifteen thousand dollars a year, we're gonna put up a windmill.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: The if it's the investment version of you, you're going
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: to say, yeah, put that thing up tomorrow. But if
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: it's truly a hunting parcel, you're there to say, I
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: don't think so, but it is a lot of money,
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: and I you know, so that's why all this is
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: so personalized. It It truly is, and that's what makes
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: it fun.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so so I hate going back to the
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: financial side of things because we spend a lot of
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: time on that in the front end. But it's it's
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: such a it runs through so much of this conversation,
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I guess because when you're mentioning like that turnkey property,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: that's something I've seen a lot when I've done my
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: looking and stuff. You'll see this property that they're on
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: the listing. They've got trail camera pictures of the Big
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Bucks and they said they put food plots in their
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: stands up there, and like usually those pieces like I'm
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: just I don't even want to look at them because
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just assuming like it's they've already marked it up
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: the way I would want to mark it up someday. Right, Like,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: if I were ever going to buy a property, it
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: would be to start small, do the work, and then
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I can flip it and make money off of because
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I would do all that stuff myself and market it, YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: When I've seen that somebody else does that, I'm assuming
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: it's probably overpriced and I'm not going to have like
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: that margin that I was hoping to gain myself by
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: buying it, improving it, and selling it. So my question
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: is like, how do you how do you how do
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: you go about figuring out what is a fair price?
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: And if I'm trying to do what I just described,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: which is I want to buy something that has opportunity
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: for investment growth by sweat equity and whatever, how do
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I pick the right property for that kind of thing?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming you're ideally looking for an undervalued
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: property with a lot of potential, But how do you
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: how do you find that kind of thing? And is
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: there anything unique in the search process compared to what
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: you've been describing already.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great point because I think
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: that's the majority of people, is they want to buy
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: something that is rough and make it quote unquote turnkey
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: whatever that is to them when they go to sell it.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: And so a lot of is this patience in searching
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: A lot I think is the best way to say that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: And I think that if you're a guy that for
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: sure to say, hey I want to I want to.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: But here's the thing, like every even even those turnkey farms,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: like there's still so much stuff that can be done.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: That is potential value add right, Like there's if they
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: did two of the two of the million things, well
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: there's still nine hundred and ninety hit whatever things to do.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: So I think the biggest thing is like figuring out, okay,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: the average parcels are selling for this, and because everyone
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: thinks that, there's a lot of assumptions in the world
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: of land, right like you hear people like, oh he
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: bought it, he just doubled his money. That doesn't really happen,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: So I think for overall, so I think the biggest
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: thing is seeing if okay, if the average price is
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: four thousand and he's asking forty one hundred and he
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: has ten thousand dollars worth of box blinds on there,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: well maybe that actually pencils out to a fair price
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: for forty one hundred, and you could still like do
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: value add I had Pat Porter on the Land podcast.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: He's written books about real estate. I bought a bunch
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: of them and they're very quick reads, and I like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: him a lot. And he said people don't have imagination.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: Take the imagination out like so do the work. And
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: I think that is why a lot of those properties
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: do go well because someone buys their first piece of ground,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: they maybe they never put in a food water, maybe
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: they've never put up a blind. And so I think
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: if that was me and I'm trying to do this, yeah,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: it's to quote unquote turn key, But what could I
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: do that I can see in my own eyeballs to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: take the imagination away for the next person and do
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: those things that truly add value to the property. And
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: so I think that's the best way to do. But
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: in terms of like figuring out the best way to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: find a raw arm, it's patience. I mean, that's just
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: the reality of its patience. And I think going back
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: to like the green lights and red lights, I think
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: a potential red light would be a farm that's been
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: on the market for a very long time, right, But
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: it could be a potential green light if they have
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: newfound motivation because it's sat on the market for a
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: year and nothing happened to it. And so I think
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: that's just the weird balance of all of that too.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, you know, you thought it was worth this.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: If it was worth that, I would have sold. Would
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: you consider this? And so that's the dynamic fun thing
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: about real estate. So yeah, trust me because everyone wants
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: to find a raw farm. They're becoming less and less
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: like talking about the efficiencies of the market, like we
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: are becoming very efficient. Like people are becoming so well
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: educated when it comes to buying land, like the access,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Like I've talked to a lot of people this year,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: like I only want this type of sided access on
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: this farm, and I won't look at anything else. And
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: so back in the day, that wasn't even a thing.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: Did I have big deer and could I put in
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: a food plot? Yes, yes, Okay, I want to buy it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: And so I think that's just like we as hunters,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: we as consumers continue to evolve and change what something
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: could be worth based off of what could be produced
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: on the ground. And that even includes solar panels. Like
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: ten years ago, who cares it would have been a
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: drawback if there was a big power line running nearby, right, Like,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: oh I don't like that. Now it's a potential huge
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: value add So I think that's just that's the awesomeness
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: of land is just it's it's like some people like
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: shed hunting, right, people are eight up with shed hunting.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: I like land hunting. That's that's what I like I
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: like looking for that eighty inch side like hypothetically as
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: a farm, because I think that's like, that's what makes
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: me excited, Like going walking a farm that you have
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: you looked at online and you're like, oh, I didn't
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: see this, or oh this wasn't on the listing, or
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't know there was a creak through here, or
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: so that's just the best way to look at It's like,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: look at it with an inquisitive mind and ask yourself
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: as many questions until you think you have enough answers
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: and vision.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: If I want to if I want to do the
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: buy something and fix it up, sell it by a
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: bigger farm, you know, if that's my dream, that's what
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to do. I want to work my way
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: up to having one hundred and forty acres soon to
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: start with thirty. Is there any kind of rule or
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: best practice as far as like what kind of delta
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: or like how below market value do you want to
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: try to find a farm in order to be able
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: to see an investment. I'm having a hard time describe
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say here, Jake. Basically like knowing like, hey,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: I want to be able to flip this thing in
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: a couple of years and make some money off of it.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: How much under what everything else is going for? Do
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: I need to look for to define this as like, okay,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: this is an undervalue properly that gives it Like if
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: the going rates five thousand bucks an acre, would a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: forty five hundred dollars acre property be something that would
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: be worth buying because I can bump it up and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: fix it up and then sell it for fifty five
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Or am I looking for something that's like two thousand
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: dollars less than everything else? Like what's Yeah, if you
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: can find one that's two hundred dollars two thousand dollars
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: an acre below market, then definitely buy that, no doubts
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: about it, because hardly exists anymore. I mean I think, yeah,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I think the maybe something I think even like I said,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: at a fair price, because people don't have the vision,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: they can't see what you could do to it to
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: get it to a five thousand dollars an acre piece
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: to six thousand dollars an acre if you do this,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: this and this, So I think that's one way to
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: look at it. I think the other one is if
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: you could find something that is I mean, honestly, like
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: ten percent of market I think is pretty something to
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: get a little bit excited about.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: And so, but that's looking in the rearview mir where
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: the market has been, where is it going to be
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: in the future. And so I think that's a general
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: with them, like if you can find something for a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: fair price that checks off, you know, within two hours,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: and you have value adding all these different things, then
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: that's good too. I Mean there's clients that have helped
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: that bought things at what felt like maybe a touch
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: above fair, but time has been on their side and
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: the market was on their favor and they did really
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: well with those. And so I truly believe that the
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: biggest bottleneck to land ownership is paralysis by analysis, because
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: like we've just been talking this whole time, and I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: feel like I probably haven't educated you anymore to get
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: you excited to do it when we started, because it's
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: it's like though it's people are their own people getting
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: their own way of success. I really believe that, like
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: they'll it's not the farm isn't perfect enough, Like you're
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: not gonna find a perfect farm, especially if it's your
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: first one. By the farm, learn what you can make
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: some mistakes, have comfort and making mistakes because that means
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: you're growing. I think it's the same thing for a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: deer hunter. They're like, I don't know he's on the farm,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I need to go in, or
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to do this, versus like just
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: go try and you're gonna learn something and get better
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: next time. And I think land follows that same thing.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: So one of the things that I feel like a
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: lot of folks worry about is like if I sink
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: my savings into this farm and it's not perfect, if
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: the thing I was worried about ends up being the
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: case and it's not as good as I thought it
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: was going to be, or there's a bad neighbor, or
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: there's not a bunch of big deer, whatever it is.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: How hard is it to offload a property like that? Like,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: are you stuck if there's a red flag like that
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: that you discover? Or is there so much demand these
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: days that even those properties that aren't perfect, there'll be
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: someone who is willing to take a flyer and give
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: it a shot.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's still way more buyers than our
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: sellers in the market right now, So I think you
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: have some level of protection for something like that, and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: then once again, it kind of goes back to the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: maybe you thought it was going to be an awesome
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: deer hunting spot and it's twenty acres, but maybe it's
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: a really nice place to build a house and have
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: some pasture out back. So like that's the thing, Like
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: we are so dear focused that we often forget the
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: guy that wants honeybees and it's away from ag and
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: he can have his honey bees out back. So those
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: are just some different things. Or maybe it could be
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: an orchard or you know, there's so many different land
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: uses and potential there. So just because there's a bunch
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: of neighbors there and you want to run cattle or
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: have horses and that's not going to impact them. So
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: I think it's definitely a valid concern, right, But there's
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: also people that is, I want a place to hunt.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: I got kicked off everywhere. I'm sick of paying for leases.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: I just want a place to hunt. I don't care
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: if I see a deer, I'm gonna be so happy,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Versus maybe what your goals were going into, Like I
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: want to target five year old deer home and so
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: that's that's that whole bell curve of potential buyers. And
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: so I don't think you every want to be deceitful, like, yeah,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: that neighbor's a jerk and you're not gonna like him.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: Like I think you probably say, hey, he's hasn't liked
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: me that much, but maybe you guys will get along better.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: And I think that's just like the easiest way to communicate,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: you know, like to never be deceitful, because like the
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: world is tiny, whether people realize that or not, like, yeah,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: be honest, explain like, hey, these are the things that
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: didn't work for me on this farm, but maybe you
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: could fix them, or maybe maybe this doesn't bother you,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: but I do want to let you know these you
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: know that this is going on, and I think that's
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: really important. But to summarize though, yeah, I think you
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: probably sell it. And I've talked to a lot of
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: people and I have not found many people that have
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: lost money from selling a piece of crown historically, and
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: I think that comes down to owning it long enough too,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: So I think that's really important. And like circling way
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: back to like the investment versus land, this is one
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: of my favorite conversation on the Land podcasts. It was
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: a father and son and the father went bankrupt during
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: the farming crisis in the eighties. It was like a
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: very powerful story that I really enjoyed. And then the
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: son has been so like multi family investment, investment, investment,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: and then they bought a farm and they're like, yeah,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: this is pretty awesome, Like we did pretty well, and
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: my son loved to go out and work on it.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: And so it's like we always we get in our
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: own way of crunching the numbers and Okay, what is
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: peace and quiet worth? What is running a tractor and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: doing your food? But what is that worth? Because like
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: at the end of the year, I always write down
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: what are my five favorite days of the year. Three
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: of the five are always a day like working with
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: my wife or my family on a farm. Like that's
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: that's me. So like what is that worth to me?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: It's worth a lot. And so I think that's the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: biggest thing is we get so caught up on like
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: the numbers. We get in our own way. This farm
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: doesn't have this, or this one could be better, or
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: did you hear about this other farm? It's like you
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: got to give yourself permission to be happy and move
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: forward with what you want. I really like I think
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: it's more in our brain than anything else. I think
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: it's a really good final thought to send this out.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: I think that's probably the message a lot of folks
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: need to hear. But I want to give you an opportunity.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: If there's anything else you want to send folks off with,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: speak now or forever hold your tongue. And then secondly,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: could you give folks the rundown of where they can
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: find all the different great work that you and the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: folks at Exodus and everyone are doing with the various
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: podcasts and media you guys have, I would love to
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: hear about all that.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, once again, thanks for having me on here. My
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: shameful shameless or and maybe there's some shame I don't know.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: I'm a licensation here in Illinois, and so I'm more
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: than happy to assist anyone in some of the conversations
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: that we had here, or if you're anywhere in the country,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: happy to talk to you as a friend and give
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: you some ideas and point you in the right direction.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: When I started a land podcast the goal of helping
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: one hundred people by their first farm, and I'm getting
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: really close to that, which is so cool to say,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: you know, like whether this is someone an email like hey,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: I'm in Wisconsin and you helped me have enough confidence
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: to move forward. I bought a farmer. I love it,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: and so like that's why I started it, and so
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: it's really cool to share kind of what I've been
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: doing for the last one hundred and thirty some episodes
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: of the Land podcast comes out every Monday. And the
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: other thing Exodus outdoor Gear, our YouTube channel and the website.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: Exodus outdoor Gear dot com manufacture trail cameras and arrows,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: and this may will be nine years of Exodus, which
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: is crazy to say. And it's been a lot of fun.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: We have a lot of content beyond If you're a
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: big woods guy, probably not your dude, but if you
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: want to talk about land, I'm your guy. And so
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: we have a lot of different types of content. If
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: you like whitetails, I guarantee we talk about wherever you're
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: hunting in the country.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Chad's got that big Woods game dialed in
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: to talk about there.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: I always give him a hard time. Yeah, he's all
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: about it. Not for me, but he's all about it.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Hey, different strokes for different folks, right, absolutely, All right, well, Jake,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. This is great, And make sure
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: my buddy listens to this and gets off his tail
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: and buys that farm. And I think there's a lot
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: of other people who, in all seriousness, I can't recommend
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: your stuff enough. The Land podcast. I've listened to a
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: bunch of it as I've gone through. I go through
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: these like ups and downs, and maybe I should do
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: it now, right right now. Maybe I should do it now,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: right now, And so I'll periodically jump in and explore
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: the archives. And you've been doing some good stuff lately,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: So thank you for helping so many people. You maybe
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: are approaching one hundred people that you've helped that have
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: told you and confirmed that they've been helped. But I'm
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: sure there's many, many thousands who have benefited from what
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: you're putting out there along the way.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: So keep with the good work, appreciate that. Thank you
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: All right, and that's a wrap. Thank you for joining.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you again to Jake for everything he shared with us.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: I think we got a wealth of information there, and
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, if you're looking for more, go
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: check out Jake's podcast, Go check.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: Out the resources he mentioned.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: There's a lot more there to dive into. So that
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: all said, thanks for being here, and until next time,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: stay wired to hunt.