Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The Killer (2023) - David Fincher | Houselights #190

Transcript

The Killer (2023) - David Fincher | Houselights #190 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hello everybody at home, and welcome to House Lights, specifically
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: House of Fincher. And you may be scratching your heads thinking, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: whoa whoa. You did House of Fincher a long, long,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: long time ago. You kind of started this show as
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: House of Fincher and then moved on to other directors. Well,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: we're revisiting the fantastic David Fincher with The Killer from
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three and taking a break from Roland Emmerick's films.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: And this week joining me is John Mills, and we
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: are sans Darren Moser. Today Darren Moser is on vacation,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and so both John and I thought it would be
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: a great idea to go back and continue the House
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: of Fincher and and John like this, even though this
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: came out last year. You call yourself a David Fincher fan,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: but yet you just saw this for the first time.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Yesterday.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: I did see this film, The Killer for the first time.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: It is, as we frequently talk about, It's been on
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: the to watch list for a long time, but then
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: it falls out of your queue and then somebody else
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: is like, oh, you got to watch this, or then
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: we're in a different house for house lights or anything
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: like that, and it's like it just keeps sort of
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: like knocking it down, and so it's unintentional. Now you
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: could very much throw that in my face and say, well,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: would you let a Christopher Nolan movie slip by like that?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: And I can tell you no, but no specifically because
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: he still releases those in the theaters in such a
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: way that it's easy, like that's an experience to go
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: after when it's streaming. If you don't get it while
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: while it's hot out of the oven, it's gone really fast.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: And so The Killer has been on my playlist or
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: you know, to watch list for a long time. It's
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: just continually getting crushed down. So I'm thrilled actually to
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: come back to the house of Fincher because it's been
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: a while. Davey boy, you know, I was curious to
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: see how this would play.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Out because his movie before this was mank which was
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: also for Netflix, because he signed a four year deal
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: with Netflix too, and he's released two movies under that
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: four year deal starting in twenty twenty. With Mank Well,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: he signed it in twenty twenty. I think I can't
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: remember when Man came out. It might have been twenty twenty,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: but yeah. This was written by his longtime companion and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: writing partner Andrew Kevin Walker. And it stars Michael Fossbender,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Tilda Swinton, and Charles Parnell. And this was based off
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of the French comic The Killer that came out I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: think in two thousand and seven, and Fincher himself was
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: such a huge fan of the comic he immediately got
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: the filming rights and said, I'm gonna do this, And
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: so he's been wanting to make this into a movie
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: since two thousand and seven. And of course I bet
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: you can guess who he wanted to play the Killer
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven. You have, you have two guesses.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: One of them is wrong, Oh my gosh. In two
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: thousand and seven, Brad Pitt. Yep, it was Brad Pitt.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: That's who it was gonna be. Okay, yes, all right,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what you fake. Feel proud like
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: folks at home. He put his hand on his head, like, oh, oh,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: let me think you knew the answer. You knew the answer?
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Well, no, I I didn't know for sure.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I legitimately didn't know for sure. Pitt popped up immediately,
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: and then I doubted myself and I was like, well,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: wait a minute, can't that's too You ever get like
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: the flash of the obvious where you're like, Okay, that's
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: that's too obvious an answer?
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, Pitt.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Pitt would make you know there man, that m that's
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: immediately a version. And this is no slight on Fastbender
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: at all. That's immediately a version where I'm like, ooh, ooh,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I'm curious now because I could hear these lines in
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Pitt's voice, and I'm like, that's an interesting movie. That's
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: really really interesting.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I am thinking about it, and I have thought about
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: it ever since I learned that fact that he wanted
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: to Pitt to do it, and then Pitt read the
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: script or at least the concept, like you talked about
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the concept and read the comic, and Pitt thought it
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: was too nihilistic for him. And that's amusing for a
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: guy who you know, played Tyler Durden.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: I was going to say Time Out Fight Club, Hello,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: like did he miss did he not watch all the
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: way to the end of that movie or something like
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: did he not Okay, right, that's fine.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, though, I think Fastbender brings about
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: kind of a cold, calculated, emotionless vitality to the role
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that I don't think Pitt would do. I'm not saying
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: he couldn't do it, but I don't know if we've
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: ever seen Pitt do that before. Now, he could have
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: done something equally great and different. But I really liked
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: that quality that Fastpender brought.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: What do you think, h I.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Agree with you. I think that Pitt would have been different,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: but I see in Fastbender's performance him picking much more
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: on what Fincher would be laying down in this movie
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: where this guy. What Fastbender is really good at with
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: his physicality in this is that he's really good at
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: sort of folding in on himself when necessary. For instance,
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: when he's coming down in the elevator after killing the lawyer,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: he has this really good way of being noticeably unobtrusive
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: in such a way where you can tell he's looking
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: at you from under the brim of his hat, but
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: not in a way that's going to make you look
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: up from.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Your phone necessarily.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: And I thought that was really in terms of his physicality,
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: I think Pitt would have been more.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: There would have been more.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know what to say, more stiffness to him,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: not stiffness. There would have been more noticeability to him.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: There would have been more presence to him. Whereas Fastbender
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: does a really good job of folding in on himself.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: I get that.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I get that like he can. Yeah, I think you
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: put it well. You were searching for the words, but
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I think you put it well.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: And I love that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: He even talks about that in the narration, about how
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: he called it his camo and he based his camel
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: off of a German tourist he once saw. Yeah, and
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I can't remember have you seen entrapmentt with No?
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I haven't. I feel right, you haven't.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I that's what I remember. There was something about it
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: with you. Yeah, But in entrapment, like you have Sean
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Connery who looks like the rock Sean Connery. You know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: he's got the tupey. He looks, he looks good, looks vital.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: But when he tries to blend in and like when
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: he's like doing a heist and everything like that, he
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: blends in like Michael Fassbender in The Killer. Like even
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I think he even wears like the bowl hat like Fastbender,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and like has a camera around his chest, so he
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: looked he looks like an embarrassing tourist when he's trying
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: to blend in, like the opposite of James Bond. And
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: it was just really cool and funny to see and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: to see that repeated. And I don't mean that as
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: a slight, but it was very reminiscent in The Killer,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and I don't feel like Pitt would have done that.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Like we see Pitt as an assassin a couple of
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: times in his career, and I think like even in
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: the latest one where he's on a train, I think
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: it might even be called bullet train. You know, even
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: though he's dressed simply or at least not like a
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: stereotypical spy or assassin that you would see in the movies,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: he still looks like Brad Pitt, Like he's still like
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: he's there, he's on the screen.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: I'll also say, in all honesty that where this movie
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: really benefits from Fastbender being in it is Fastbender has
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: previous experience in a fantastic close quarter martial arts movie,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: that one he did with Soderbergh.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Gina Crano was in it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I was years and years ago, and he he was
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: in that one, and I think that pays off here
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: because he very obviously like the fight scene plays so
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: incredibly well, and I think you need to be a
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: really good, uh you know, really like really accomplished actor
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: in terms of that physicality. Right when you see Brad
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Pitt fight on screen. Yeah, they do the fancy hand
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: and leg and kicking combos and everything like that. But
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: Fastbender actually comes across as a guy who knows these
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: moves and moves in such a way that I believe
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: him as a as somebody who fights like this. It
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: doesn't look staged that that's what.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: He's coaching for.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: The movie is called Haywire.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: That's the one. Just since I saw it, I just
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: slicked it up.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it's I never seen it, it's Soderberg
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: infestmen or I've never seen it. That's under the que.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: I remember enjoying it. I remember enjoying it. And the
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: fight scenes were really good in that Like that was
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: the whole selling point, was the fight scenes were really good.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I definitely want to talk about some of the fight
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: scenes because you brought it up. There's a lot to
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: talk about, but I do want to talk about the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: fight scenes, because there are a few and far between,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: and they're pretty much I mean, actually, I mean, if
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: you think about it, there's really just the one. There's
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: really just the one fight scene. It's the big fight
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: scene that takes place in Florida. And I want to
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: know what you think about that. Like you talked about
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: his moving movement style, and I like that his movement
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: was different than obviously the Brute as they called him,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: you know, like this this huge Maori guy. Did you
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: did you think that that fight went too far, didn't
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: go to didn't go far enough? You know, like, what
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: did you think about it? The only fight in the movie.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I that fight scene I thought was magnificently staged.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: And I can tell you it was magnificently magnificently staged,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: specifically because nobody I hear, I heard no reports of
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: somebody accidentally breaking a leg or anything like that. And
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: when you're doing a fight scene like that, that's that
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: is key. And I think that it was brilliantly staged,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: specifically because Fastbender you can see, is really technically proficient
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: and he's out of his weight class, and the Brute
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: doesn't need the finesse that he does, and so it
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: becomes a fascinating fight scene because too many times with
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: these types of fight scenes, they're too evenly matched, and
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: it's evenly matched and it's like, okay, it's the chess.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Game, and then there's gonna be the one thing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Whereas this I was legitimately afraid for his character because
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: I was like, it doesn't matter how good he is,
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: this guy can literally break him in half when he
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: could just wear him down and break him in half
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: in terms of quote unquote going too far. There is
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: a moment and you know, the moment where the guy
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: fell onto the broken leg of the table where I
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: had to look away because I was like, oh my god,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: like that was Fincher doing it to me again, where
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I was like, it's just kind of there. Yeah, I'm like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: come on, man, why are you gonna like he Fincher's
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: too good. But but but that's what makes it so
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: fascinating is that that type of stuff would happen in
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: a fight like this, and it's like, you know, so
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: like it. It actually lends this air of realism to it.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: The fact that the guy got up and moved afterward.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but you know, maybe he's too roided
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: up to notice. I mean, what how did it play
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: for you? Because, like, you know, I mean did it
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: go too far? I mean, although I will say before
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: you answer the one the one interesting note is Fincher
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: goes too far with that thing, and you know that
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: the fight scene goes on for a while. Even David
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: Fincher is too afraid to kill the dog.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, it's it's so funny that
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I was like, it would have been super easy for him,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Like I thought that they were gonna go that way
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: because when the dog was when he heard the dog coming,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, they can just you can just
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: pop on one and then you know, threat over. But
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: he ran, He ran away and slammed the fence. The
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: fince shut. Which is really interesting to me because I
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: felt like in that moment, you're just like, oh, yeah,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: like you know, you can't kill the dog, even though
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: you know David Fincher literally began House of Cards killing
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: a dog, like you have that movie logic of like
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: you don't kill the dog unless it's absolutely necessary, unless
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it's like like a violent vampire dog or something like that,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: or something that you'd see in you know, like in
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: a horror movie. But we've already lost. I feel like
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: as a protagonist, you the even though, Like, okay, so
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: if you from a morally you can't get on board
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: with an assassin. You either accept you either accept the
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: premise and the profession, or you don't. You're just like,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: that's his profession. He's a killer. Is he a good killer?
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Is he a bad killer? You know, like I'm talking
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: about movie logic.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Here, huh.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And I feel like you lose any sympathy for him
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: when he kills the taxi driver.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, I agree.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I think in that moment you're like, oh, okay, you're
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: not you're man there there was no real reason to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: kill that guy, Like he didn't do anything bad to you,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Like like he was just the taxi driver, Like he
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: wasn't involved, he was tertiarily involved at best, and he
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: kills him, and I'm like, okay, well that's that's who
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: he is. You know that, that's who the killer is.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: He's a killer, and he doesn't want any loose ends. Fine,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not rooting for you, but there you go. But
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: up until that point, he was dealing with either bad
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: people or just an assignment that wasn't his assignment. Nor
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was that taxi driver a bad person. So when the anyway,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: long story short, so when the dog came up, I
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: thought it was just gonna pop one because we already
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: lost faith in him, right, But I guess for some
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: people it'd be like, oh, wait, kill all the taxi
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: drivers you want, but leave the dogs alone.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: Let me turn that on its head though, because as
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: we're talking about it, I mean, Fincher always gets good
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: performances out of his actors, and I think that taxi
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: driver did a great job because I felt for him.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: He made me feel empathy for him. But I will
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: offer that there's no way the person didn't know that
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: something funky was going down sort of thing, and so
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't go so far as to call him a
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: good person. If two people matching the Maori guy until
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: the Swinton like just wait here, and they go off
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: and it's been a while, I'm probably driving away because
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: I'm freaked out at that point. If I'm a quote
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: unquote good person, like there's absolutely nothing positive, I probably
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: can't stop what's happening, but I can at least drive
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: after the police and be like I think you should
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: probably head out that way. I mean, maybe there's something
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I don't understand about it. Maybe they needed more dialogue
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: establishing that the cabby was like, and you can't go
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: to the cops here because they were already paid off.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I was bout, you know.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: I think that his dialogue could have been short up
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: to support more that he felt more trapped, that there
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: was no real free will involved in that moment. I
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: still think it's crappy what the killer does, but I
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: can understand somebody getting to the reasoning of saying, no,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: you made a choice to stay there. If you had left,
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: that would indicate remorse, reconsideration, regret, any of a number
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: of things.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: It's assuming though I knew what was going down, though,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: you know, like going from.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Crue okay, fairpoint, fair point, it's you.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Know, like, I feel like there's a big gap between
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: they can't be doing anything good to their beating a
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: woman half to death and they're going to try to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: murder someone. You know, like there's a big difference between
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: knowing exactly what's going on and having a vague postulation
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: that something bad is going on.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: Well, let me ask you this question. If she had
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: been killed as a part of the plot. Would that
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: change your view of how he dispatched the driver.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, because I feel like, honestly
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: that this is just a personal thing. I you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like the taxi driver honestly was blamelessly. I mean,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: he talked about how like we're not in America here,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: you know, He's talking about how I wanted to eat.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I was starving, like, you know, like I need I
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: needed the fare, and like I freaked out like that,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: like the brute freaked me out. I knew like should
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: kept on a leash who was insane. And then I'm
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: waiting there for an hour, you know, like I don't
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: know what to do. I should have left and everything
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: like that. So I feel like he obviously, because there's
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: a dude in his cab with a gun pointed at him,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: he knows something bad went down.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't think he knew anything beyond that.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: I see.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: The thing is, I think we're both agreeing the cabby
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: shouldn't have bought it that way, and you know, but
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: but it does establish immediately that the killer has no empathy,
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: and I think it brings us back to the point
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: of that's why it's odd that he doesn't kill the dog.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked for a long time in a circle
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: for the for that exact reason. It's just like he's
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: clearly a sociopath and oh yeah yeah, and and I
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: feel like you have to be in order to be
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: a good assassin like him.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: And I think Finch, oh no, I was gonna say, yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: you're essentially a serial killer who makes money at it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, yeah, you're a serial killer who isn't defined
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: as a serial killer. But instead of doing it flip
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: for pleasure, you do it for money. It's yeah, yeah,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's a fine line. And there's a few
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: other fine lines and other professions like that. But so,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to completely go back to what we were talking about
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: with the fight, I felt like the fight went on
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: too long, really, because.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Yes I did, because I did like the fight. I did.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I liked it, and I thought it was well choreographed.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I really like how it was shot.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: It was dark, but you never had to guess what
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: was going on, you know, like Fincher loves his realistic lighting.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: But this was never a point when you're like, I
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: don't know what's happening, Like I remember that. I think
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: it was either in I don't know if it was
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: in born identity or born ultimatum, but Matt Damon was
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: fighting some guy who had his exact same haircut, exact
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: same build, in the exact same coat as him, and
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: they were completely backlit, standing up against a window with blinds,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and you're like, I have no idea who's fighting?
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Right, who should I be rooting for right here? Yeah?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: And you do not have to guess that with the
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: difference in size from Salid Baker and Michael Fossbender. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: so I did like that. I wish that Fosspnder got
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: hit less. I'm not saying that fos Spender should have
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: hit the Brute more, but I think foss Spinner should
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: have been hit less because I feel like with the
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Brute mainly like you talk, I think you talked about
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: it well, where like, it doesn't matter how good of
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: a fighter you are. If you're going up against somebody
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: that huge and that strong, they can end you. They
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: don't need to be a good fighter. But with foss
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Spender being a good fighter, being slim, you know, and
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: being wiy two three punches maybe even less than that,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: you're out you're done with that that guy hitting you.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: I'm going to counter you on this because I think
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: that that's where Fincher wisely shows him changing in that
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: in the gas station, because when he when he takes
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: his shirt off and you see how cut he is,
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: I think that that sort of carries through to that
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: scene because it's like he's dressed very drabs, sort of
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: like skinny dude. But you know that underneath that is
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: like he's basically just you know, to borrow from fight club,
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: you know, carved out of wood sort of thing. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: so that's why I bought the punishment that he took.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Is it excessive? I guess in my brain, any movie
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: fight like this is excessive.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's the thing. It's a movie fight. I
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: mean that, you know, it's a great movie fight. And
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I think the only reason why I'm being hyper critical
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: of it is because this movie is steeped in so
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: much quote unquote realism than most spy thrillers. And I
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: think that's probably why I'm much more critical of it,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: because like, of course, there's a lot of things where
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: you're just like, no, it's not that easy to have
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: multiple passports. No, it's not that easy to have multiple identities. No,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: it's not that easy to go get on a plane
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: without biometric scanning. No, it's you know, like there's there's
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: totally so many things you have to you know, like
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: negotiate within your own mind in order to have an
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: entertaining movie. And Fincher made an entertaining fight. But it's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: just I think after the three punches in the face
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: and then an uppercut right at the beginning, I'm like, oh,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: he's out, possibly dead now. But then he just keeps
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: taking hits. I don't care how ascular you are underneath.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: You take one hit to the chin and you move
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: your head too far to the left and you're unconscious.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, i'll give you that. Yes, the uppercut is that
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: that's lights out. But if you don't go lights out,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, all right, you know you're pretty tough.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: But what I realize is we're talking about this and
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: you know, it's a movie fight. It's over the top
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: and everything like that. What I really realize is we're
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: actually talking about David Fincher's first comic book movie, right,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: So it makes sense that the fight is over the
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: top because I could see this in a superhero like
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: a Marvel film, where like, you know, you have to
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: sort of like just be like, yeah, okay, he's gonna
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: take way more punishment than he and being canned.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: That's fine, that's fine.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I actually just purchased the comic book and I'm gonna
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna read it this uh this this weekend because
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I've never read it before. But yeah, like I said,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm sure there's some people listening who
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: are rolling their eyes at me, you know, talking about
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: this and that and about how it's not realistic. And
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I totally get it. I totally it's a movie fight.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I should shut up and just enjoy it, and I did,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: but there was just there was.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Just a bit it's just just a bit too.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Much because maybe it's because I'm getting older, maybe because
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I fell off a ladder, you know, a few months
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: ago or last summer and like I was out, man,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I was out for like a week and I just
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: fell off a ladder and like Fossbender fell off a
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: ladder like ten times in that fight.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Like, yes, but I think what you're you're getting at,
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: You're you're fixating on the fight scene. But I would
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: say that the movie as a whole. A lot of
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: its scenes go a little bit longer than I think
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: they need to. It breathes a little too much.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that, Let's talk about let's talk about
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the rhythm, Let's talk about the pacing. Because one thing
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that I thought was very distinctive was and I hate
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: using the phrase, you know, I hate using this phrase
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: because the legacy of Ryan Johnson has ruined this phrase.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: But this movie very much subverts expectations when it comes
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: to what to include and what not to include in
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: a movie like Right off the bat opening scene takes
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: a long time, and he talks about the boredom of
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: being an assassin, and so you feel that boredom with
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: him while it's still being entertaining. That's a hard thing
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to do. And in a normal movie, he would have
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: killed his target. It would have gone flawlessly, and it
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: would have been done within the first five minutes, maybe less.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And the second job is the one that would have
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: gone wrong. This one first job, we see him, he
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: screws the pooch, and then when he flies back home,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: we don't. It's not just a dissolve to the Dominican Republic. No,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: we see him every single step.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Of the way.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Go to the airport, go to the bathroom, drop off
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: his material, change his flight, get to the hotel, get
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: the rental car, go to his home. And then when
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: he gets to his home and we see everything has
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: gone crazy, We're like, Okay, we're going to see a
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: hand to hand fight. Nope, it's all aftermath. He's not
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: involved in this whatsoever.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Mh. You know what i'man.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I know exactly what you're saying, and I will I
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: will offer that I don't have any problem with what
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: you're saying, because you always talk about like macro versus micro.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about. This movie is for Fincher. It's pretty tight.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: It's an hour and fifty eight minutes, which for him,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I'm proud of him. I'm very proud of him because
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: he really you know, Hey, hey, Davy, I appreciate you,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: but I think that there are certain moments. Now can
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: I sit there and recite them to you, But there
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: are moments where I actually appreciate showing the long trek
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: and the because it demonstrates how insanely meticulously fastidious he
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: is about everything. And the opening I thought was fantastic.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Fincher Master craftsman, with the way he frames the shots,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: with the way it's edited together, with the musics that's
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: chosen or not chosen. You know that the periods of
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: silence to emphasize the boredom necessary in it, and also
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: the routine, all of that stuff I'm talking about as
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: it goes on, there are just it. The sense to
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: me is that there were moments where like, and I'm
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: talking about micro stuff where it's like it feels like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: you know, a scene here or there could have been
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: thirty seconds less or a minute less where like, I
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: feel like this is so close to exactly what it's
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: trying to be, but it just needs to tighten just
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: ever so slightly. And so here I am whining. It's like, oh, well,
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: how many minutes do you think should come off? I'm
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: not saying like it's fifteen minutes off. I'm saying like
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: it's an hour and fifty eight. It feels like it
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: should be like an hour and fifty five. For some reason,
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: it feels like that three minutes would make a difference
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: to me. I don't know why, but it does. It
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: just feels like that would make a difference to me.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Once we got to Chicago, yeah, that's when we're like, oh, okay,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: like maybe we should have wrapped it up before then,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: maybe we should have combined the expert and the client
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: together in some fashion. I really like the Chicago stuff.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I really like the client stuff like that's it's some
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: of my favorite stuff. That's some of my favorite parts
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: are in the Chicago stuff, the Chicago scenes. But from
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: a story standpoint, once you get to that point, it
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: feels I think the thing is is that it's a weird.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: It's a weird structure because it's a five X structure,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: or at least it feels like a five X structure,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: which is a very famous television structure. And I think
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I think Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was five ACX
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: as well. So we've seen Fincher go to that and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: go to it well, but for some reason, this it
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: felt weird because with the lawyer mixed in, you didn't
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: have that three part revenge of like, okay, well he
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: killed the lawyer and then he went on and killed
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: the brute, then he went on and killed the expert. Well,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: in movie logic, usually it's like okay, three and you're done.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Like now, I'm not saying this is a hard and
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: fast rule. Nobody tweet me or message me about that.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying like having that client at the end
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: felt like a tack on, but it was a really
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: long tack on.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: I will offer this that you can keep everybody that
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: you're talking about. Dolores feels like the misstep there. I
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: feel like you could have had Dolores be the secretary
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: who isn't that observant, maybe is oblivious to what her
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: lawyer boss is doing, and that's why she when she's leaving,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: she's the one that lets him in sort of thing,
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: and you know, that's what you know. I'm not going
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: to try to rewrite the movie, obviously, but that's the
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: point where I think he's it's not It loses a
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: little bit of focus, and that's probably what would have
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: alleviated all of my My complaint would have been, it
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: would have tightened it up that much more, because then
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: there's even that moment where it feels like he's gonna
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: let her go and it's going along, and then he
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: snaps her neck and she goes down the stairs, and
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that's the one that felt superfluous.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: That's the one.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It's interesting. I think I think you're right. I feel
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: like that would have been the easiest way to trim
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: it down from a story standpoint, is to get rid
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: of Dolores again. Even though I really liked that segment
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: and I like the things that happened because carry O'Malley.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Her performance was fantastic. I love that in that moment
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: when she's when she's tied up in the bathroom, she
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: knows she's going to die. She doesn't think she's going
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: to die, she knows she's going to die. And in
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: that moment, she's like, Okay, I'll give you what you want.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I know what you can do, but just you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: like I can't just disappear like my kids need my
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: life insurance. Just make it look like an accident, you know.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: It's just it's that scary, scary moment. And I really
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I think that scene altogether, I think the lawyer and
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Dolores I gave me. It was kind of gave me
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: zodiac vibes.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: The way it was it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Was played out where it was it was so cold
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: and it was so abrupt where you're like, oh my god,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: he actually did it. He just put three nails in
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: his chest. Oh and oh he's still trying to talk
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: to him like it even though he had the nail gun.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: You're like, okay, like he's maybe he's going to like
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: do his like put it through his hand or something.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: You know, you already did it through the computer, like
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: but no boom like in the chest. I remember seeing
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that and I think literally saying out loud, oh my god,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: like right, like it totally took me off guard. And
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: so it was just one of those really chilling, violent
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: moments that I like that Fincher gives and Dolores was
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: another one of those moments where on a psychological level
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it was terrifying, where with the lawyer it was the physical,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: but Dolores it was the psychological. But if you wanted
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: to make this movie tighter, if you wanted the Chicago
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: stuff and the client not to feel like so much
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: of attack on, you could have cut it down there.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Well, And the thing is because and again, forgive me,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: we all know that we love to indulge in like,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: oh well, maybe there's a way, maybe if there was
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: even a way to combine Dolores as the expert so
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: that it's a surprise at the end where he's like
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: I found her I tracked her down and he walks
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: in and it's Dolores sitting there, and he's like, ah,
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: of course, you know, like she the front the lawyer
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: did all of this up, but like she was the
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: you know, that close to him sort of thing. Still
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: tightens things up.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: I think that speaking about all of this stuff, the
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: thing I struggle with most with all of the stuff
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: we're talking about is there is unquestionably an absolute and
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: master craftsman at work in this film. You and I
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: we both love Fincher's work. You're I ad meant it
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: took me so long to see The Killer. You're obviously
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: a bigger Fincher fan than I am. I mean, I'm
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: just not devoted enough. I need to own up to that, obviously.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: And I think that what I struggle with is at
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: the end of it, and I even said this to
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: myself about halfway through, was what are you trying to say?
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: With Fight Club? I get what he's trying to say.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: With Benjamin Button, I get what he's trying to say
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: With Mank. I struggled the same way where I was like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: what are we trying to say here? Like I get
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: that it's the story of this, but I'm like, Okay,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: you're cynical about the industry that you work in. Okay,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: I'll work with that sort of thing. But even you
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: go all the way back to Alien three, it's obviously
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: what he's trying to say with that about the struggle
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: against mortality and all those sorts of things. I come
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: out of this and I'm like, it's a really well
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: made thing, but I don't walk away from it being like, man,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: that was deep. I got to think about that, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: that's disorienting for me. With these last two movies we've
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: watched with Fincher is I'm used to having something to
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: chew on. Even famously, where I had the problems with
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Benjamin Button, I've since gone back mentally, and I'm like,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: I got to rewatch that. I think maybe I was
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: just a bad mood when I watched that at the time.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: It happens sometimes as cheery and positive as I seem
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: to be, but like I think that, I mean, what's
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: he really trying to say here? I mean, even with
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: the narration and everything, it's like and I'm not talking
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: about what the character says. I'm not talking about what
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: the character says. The point is I'm like, you walk
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: out of this and it's like, what did you trist
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: and walk away with at the end of this? What
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: were you thinking about other than that was really well made?
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I think, I know this kind of sounds like
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: a cop out, but I think that's I think that's
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: what it is. I think it's I think the killer,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: as in the protagonist has an idea of what this
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: was about and talked about it, and then you have
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: what the movie actually is. And I think it's a
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: well crafted spy thriller. I think I think it's a
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: well crafted, spiced spy thriller made for adults. I think
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: that's the long and short of it. It's well crafted,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: it's entertaining, and it tells you a story from beginning
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: to end, and you were entertained, you know, while you
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: watched it. I think there's no deeper meaning beyond that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: From a macros perspective. From the protagonist's perspective, I think
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it was his discovery of who he thought he was
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: and who he found out who he was towards the
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: end of the film, where at the beginning he's talking
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: about how you got to do this, you got to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: do that, I don't care. I don't give an f
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you know, like, you know, think about all the people
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: that die every second, Think about all the people who
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: were born every second. Like what I do does not
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: affect those numbers whatsoever. He's able to logic himself.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Out of all of it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And he keeps saying it's like, don't you know, don't react.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: You gotta you know, plan, you know, improvise, you know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: things like that. You know, like he keeps talking about
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: his mantras and mentioning his mantras and everything like that,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: and talking about how you know, like you got, you
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: can't be one of the many you got, you have
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to be one of the few who can do this
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: and live like this without any attachments or without anything
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: like that. And then we find out that he does
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: have an attachment and that you know, he's he's not
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: it's not so much revenge for himself because they went
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: after him and because he got burned. I think it
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: was the reason why he went home was because he
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: wanted to go back to his girlfriend. And that's the real,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the entire reason he went back home, where like the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: lawyer was even saying, like I had no idea you'd
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: go back home, you know, like I, you know, I
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: gave this insurance thing to the client just to appease him,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: and like they you know, like and everything like that,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and somebody went back home because his girlfriend was there.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And so at the very end of the movie, when
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: he lays down next to her, he says, you could
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: be one of the you could be one of the
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: few or one of the many like me. You know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: he's talking about how like, yeah, he has an ihelistic
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: viewpoint of the world, but he finds out that no,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: like he has something to live for, he has something
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: to look forward to, and it's with her. Again, I'm
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: not saying that's what the movie is about. I think
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: that's what the protagonist thinks the movie is about.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, uh yes, uh I you know, maybe maybe something
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: I struggle with then is that Fassbender does such a
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: great job of being so dispassionate that maybe what I
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: needed to really connect and plug in more to the
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: character is give him a moment of breaking a little
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: bit when he sees her, even if he has to
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: go walk out of the room, and you see like
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: emotions start to take over, and then you see him
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: like flip a switch and he's.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Like, can't do that. I gotta take care of business.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: And then the journey at the end when he comes back,
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: he's like, uh, yeah, I guess I guess I did care, Like,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: maybe that's what would have made it resonate more with me,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: because I agree with you about what the protagonist is.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: But I guess maybe I boxed myself in because I
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: was expecting to walk away with this as like Finch're
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: making a statement about something, But to your point, he's
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: not making a statement. He's telling a story and that's it.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: So maybe that's my own fault for going in with
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: that expectation which got subverted.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I don't think that's I don't think
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: that's a bad expectation to have. I don't think I
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say bad. I shouldn't say I don't think that's
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: an unreasonable expectation to have, especially coming from one of
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: the greatest, you know, filmmakers of generation. You know, like,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: what is this movie going to say? And I don't
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: say that lightly. I'm not just saying that as a
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Fincher fan. Fincher fan, that's it's objectively true, not just subjectively,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: but it's yeah, I totally get you. And I think
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: that's the thing is that, like it's it's extremely subtle
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: what the protagonist even thinks this is about. If it
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't for that last line, none of what I described
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: would have landed whatsoever. And it was just that one
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: line and then that weird twitch at the end. I
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: think Fincher talked about the protagonist being a misdiagnosed autistic adult,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and when described, he said, it's like if I did
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: this in two thousand and seven, people wouldn't have gotten it,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: But in twenty twenty three, people are like, oh, yeah,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I get that. And I don't know if I completely
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: agree with that. I mean, like, I think he's he's
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I think he's associated. I don't think he's autistic. I
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: think he's a sociopath and he's a he's a meticulous sociopath.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, autistic individuals, just because they're
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: autistic does make them sociopaths or or anything like that
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: So I don't know.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: This was just one line taken from an interview, so
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: he might have expanded on that whole bunch. More So,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: who knows exactly what he meant when he said that,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: But that's one way of looking at.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: It, totally shifting gears. I wanted to ask your opinion
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: about all of the TV character references with his false identity. Yeah,
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: that was that an eye roller for you? Or did
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: it get a chuckle from you? Each time?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit of an eye roller, But
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it wasn't It wasn't in your face. I wasn't like, oh,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: this is so stupid, Like it didn't take me out
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: of it where. It's just like there was a few
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: times when I was just like, I feel like a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: real person, a real assassin in his place, wouldn't do
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: that because it would draw too much attention. It would
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: bring up unneeded conversation.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you get somebody like us. It's like Felix Hunger.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Are you kidding? Are you one? Are the odds right? Yeah?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Or exactly That's what I'm talking about.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you'd have to go like way deeper cut than
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: George Jefferson. You'd have to like use Jefferson's neighbor's name
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: or something like that, but then the audience doesn't get it.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Or like the creator of the Jeffersons something like that.
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: You know, like that's like I think that was Norman
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: lear so I think I don't think you.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Would, but you know what I mean, like that's the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: thing from mister Aaron Spelling seat or sat ready for
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: mister Aaron Spelling. Okay, bad example, bad example, but you
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: get what I'm saying where it just yeah, it brings
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: like that's his entire stick is not drawing attention on himself,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: and then he names himself Archie Bunker.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, although counterpoint, you know, I mean, you're you're you're
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: a millennial who's a little more with it. But let's
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: be honest, jen X is sort of like the last
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: generation that really is getting those jokes. Because if I
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: rolled any of those names out to my kids, they'd
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: be like, who the hell are you talking about.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I was gonna say those shows.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Those shows were off the air when I was watching them,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's true, Like, you know, like my
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: kids aren't gonna know what who the hell Archie Bunker
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: is or the Jefferson's or like if I started going
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: to darn it, darn it.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: You know, and that's a missed opportunity.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: Wouldn't have been great for him to be named like
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: Lamont Sandford or something like that.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: That would have been great.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: So okay, out of okay, out of all the sections,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: because this is divided up, which one was your favorite?
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: We got we got the client, We've got the yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the lawyer, the expert, the brute, and the I meant,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: you got the beginning, the the kills, and then the epilogue.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: I will, I will honestly say, as much as I
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: love that fight as much as I love Tilda Swinton
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: as an actress, and she really brings it in that scene.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: It's things she does. She's so good at what she does.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it's it's it's just and it's so
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: she makes it look so easy.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: It's effortless.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just just something special.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: But I would have to say, in all honesty, just
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: because I love him as an actor, Charles Parnell as
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: the lawyer is so good in that scene, and he
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: plays a choking to death on your own blood so
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: uncomfortably well, like it really bothered me, Like it made
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: me so uncomfortable watching.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Him trying to when he's trying to grab the phone
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: and he knows he can't.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: And then with Carrie O'Malley as much as we you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: went on about like how you need to excise that,
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Like she's so good and so if I if this
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: were a short limited series, that would be my favorite
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: episode probably look at.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Complete agreement with you what Parnell does and the character
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: that he plays, just the the personality that Parnell brings
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: to it, the over talkative, over educated individual where he
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: thinks he can talk his way out of that. He's
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: he's he's a lawyer. You know, he was Fossbender's former
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: law professor.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: You know, like.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: He he thinks he can he thinks he knows fos Spender.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: He thinks he can talk him out of this, you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and he's he's he's probably never lost a case, you know,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: never lost a case, never never let down a client.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: And in in the in the courtroom and then outside
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: of the course room, you know, he says, he's like,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: you know, this is unprecedented, This has never happened before.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: About failing on hitting a target, like even foss Spender,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: his character said that he was batting a thousand. This
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: is and like he like after he missed, he's like
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: that's new.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: But the lawyer is you could see like even though
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: he's scared, you can see the confident in his face
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: and he won't shut up. He will not It just
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: great character work, great character work.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: And a lot of credit to the director for working
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: with his talented cast member to get that moment from him.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: And I think that, you know, because this is a
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: director focused podcast, But the thing is, it's almost reductive
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: to talk about where do you see Fincher in something else?
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's well the colored pal Wes Anderson,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, exactly exactly like you could have dropped
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: me into this movie with no promotion and said who
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: do you think directed this?
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: And I'd be like, I mean, it totally looks like
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: a Fincher movie and it's And that is actually something
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: that I was thinking about just during the opening credits,
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: was that Fincher in a way is a lot like
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Hitchcock because he will adapt works from other media and
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: it still looks and feels and sounds like a David
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: Fincher movie. He does embody the quote unquote auto. He
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: knows how to communicate to someone, and Hitchcock adapted how
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: many things and it's still you walk out of You're like, oh,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: that's a Hitchcock movie because he had that type of
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: a stamp on it. But I actually wanted to ask
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: you specifically because very early on just I've heard you
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: talk about the you know, the the opening to seven
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: and how it influenced you and what you wanted to
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: do with your life and everything. How do you feel
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: about the opening credits here for the Killer? Do you
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: feel that this is effective? Like on a scale of
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Panic Room to seven? Where does this fall in terms
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: of editing for the opening credits?
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Oh? Man?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: What a good scale? What a good scale from thank you?
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Because with Panic Room, you know, like, oh you have
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: floating titles in a city. Okay, cool, all right, it's
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: not bad. But when you have when you compare it
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: to something like The Game or Girl with a Dragon
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Tech too, and yeah, yeah, seven, seven is by far
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: the best? Ye Like yeah, like you mentioned, you know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: like I I've was a video editor for years, years
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: and years and years, and I'm a creative director and
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: seven made me want to become an editor. Like when
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I saw that, I was like, I want to I
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: want to do that, Like I want to be able
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: to juxtapos U juxtapose imagery as powerful as that, And
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: it was I didn't really take notice of it. The
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: first time I watched it, I was just kind of
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: like interesting. It wasn't until this watching where this was
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: actually this was only my second time watching it, which
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: is still twice as many times as you've seen it.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And it was as I was watching it, I was
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: just like, this, this has to be the same company.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Who I need to look it up. I should, I
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: should have looked it up before we recorded, but this
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: has to be the same company. It did grow with
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: the Dragon Tattoo. There was just a few shots, like
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: the head put in a bag for suffocation was very
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: very reminiscent of some of the motion in Girl with
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: the Dragon Tattoo opening. But I really liked that it
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: was all the different ways to kill someone like that
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: assassin would would take care of someone, where it wasn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: just what he did in the movie. It was showing
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: you all the ways he has killed someone. At least
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: that's how I took it, from the poisoning to you know,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: strangling someone, to drowning someone, to all all those things.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: And so I thought it was very finch Er esque
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: in the way that I think on a I think
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: this is this is far away from from Panic Room,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: but underneath seven underneath girl with the dragon tattoo, but
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: really up in the up in the top third is
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: it would probably be my my opinion, cool, what about you?
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Uh you know, I I'm with you on it where
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: it's it's not going to top all the top of
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: the pops. But it was a very very memorable opening
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: sequence and I enjoyed it. And it's weird to say enjoyed,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: but I liked it because I felt like I very
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: famously I hate when they do it wrong in the
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: credits to convey something about the story or the character.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: I railed against the opening for instance of like Blade
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: two for years, where I was like, that's cheating, guys,
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: this is the right way to do it where it's like,
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: you know, like you said, I feel like I've watched
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: his body of work now, I've seen him working through
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: the year, so that when I meet him, I'm like,
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: I get you. I already, I got your backstory. I'm good.
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: I don't need to know more than this to start
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: off with you. And actually, I got to be honest
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: that it puts me of a mind to want to
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: give this another rewatch because there are so many parts
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: that are put together so damn well just so so well.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: And it's just it's just that weird struggling with the
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: micro tightening or whatever that I'm struggling against here. But
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: it's yeah, you know, I love the opening. What did
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: you you know? What did you think of the the
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: soundtrack from and Ross?
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Oh? I am a big sucker for their work, like
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I am. I am such a basic bitch when it
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: comes to when when it comes to them, like I,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I will consume whatever they come out with. I I
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I there's a there's a few things in my life
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: where I am a sucker for Apple, Like if Apple
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: comes out with a new product, I start sound hitting
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: and I understand. I understand that that makes me a loser.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I get it and I accept it. And I'm that
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: way with Resnor and Ross, and I'm also that way
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: with Baxter kirk Backster the editor. I'm just like, dude,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: you you deserve all your success. You you absolutely deserve
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: your success. One of my favorite things about Fincher's is
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: how how meticulous he is with the editing and how
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: he just found such a a partner in Baxter. And
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: one thing I really like too is that the cinematographer
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Eric Messerschmidt he was a gaffer Ungone Girl and became
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: director of photography for mind Hunter and then on on
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: this on you know, on the Killer, how cool is that?
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: It's incredible and it's one of those things that that
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: those are those little bits of trivia. I didn't know
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: that until you just said that, But those are the
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: little bits of trivia that make me respect Fincher so
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: much because that means that Fincher has an eye for
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: talent and somebody that can he can work with and
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: we'll say, Okay, you want to earn this, I'll bring
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: you in. Because again, as as I love to point
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: out and many others love to point out, seeing that
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: little credit in return of the Jedi as camera operator
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: David Fincher, you know that he respects that. It's a
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: it's a tricky sort of thing to navigate all of
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: this and to have the empathy to recognize that hustle.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: I hate using the word hustle, Curse me for saying it,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: But to recognize that talent and drive and potential indicates
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: to me that he's a great leader too, which would
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: explain why he always gets great results from his cast
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: and his crew. Regardless of what I think might be
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: better or worse or anything like that. You can tell
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: that everybody that works on a Fincher film knows who
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: they're working for and appreciates it and likes it and
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: it works for them because of things like that. And
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: I know it seems like I'm waxing too much about
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: one guy who made it up, you know, up the
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: chain and everything like that, but it is important to
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: acknowledge that sort of thing. It's like George Lucas recognizing
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: Joe Johnston and you know, Johnson's like, well, I really
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: want to be a director. It's like, okay, I'll send
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: you the film school. Go become a director, you know,
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: like those sorts of things. That's just a decent human
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: being thing to do.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: So I feel like this movie there's so much more
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: we could talk about, and we could go on and
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: on about the cinematography, we could keep talking about the editing.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: One thing I do want to say before we get
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: into our ratings is this has more handheld than most
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Fincher films, and meser Schmidt said that almost all of
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: the handheld was fake, that it was developed in post,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: it was it was shaken in post. That doesn't that
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: isn't that crazy? Because I usually can. I can usually
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: spot that stuff because Fincher often will. If you notice
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: throughout his films, the camera will follow very closely the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: person in frame. If they're sitting down, the camera will
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: move down. If they're standing up, the camera will move up.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: There's very few times that it's just a stationary shot
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: and someone walks into frame. A lot of times that's
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: done digitally because he likes to shoot on spherical lens,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: shoot you know, and hot and extremely high resolution so
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: that he can zoom in, reorient and move up and
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: down for that purpose. Even though you'd think he would
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: love anamorphic because he loves feaking anamorphic with anamorphic lens
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: frames and you know, and and boca and everything like that.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But yet it's all fake because he hates shooting on
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: anamorphic with the post shake. So much of that. Like
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: maybe during the fight I could tell, but all that,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: like when he's running through his house like looking for
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend, I could have sworn that that was all
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: real handheld.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I my mind is blown that it wasn't. That's and
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: again that speaks to you again, that's the craft and
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: it's not. Article after article talking about oh look what
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: I did. Look at how great this is what I did.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: That's yeah, that's a craftsman and an artist saying, you
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: know what, I'm wanna try this. But what's really great
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: about it is he shot it in such a way
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: that you know that if they got it into post
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: and it didn't quite work, that's a hedge. That's somebody
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: who doesn't like working handheld saying Okay, if we can
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: make it work and post, great, If not, everybody's just
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: going to see a David Fincher movie.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Right right, You're exactly right.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: That is too true.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: That is spot on, because if you shoot it handheld,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: there's only no going back. Yeah, stabilization can only work
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: so so much, and so well it's it's yeah, it's
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: it's easier to add shake than it is to stabilize.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, when you add shake, there's
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: no parallax effect, and so they had to have added
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: some sort of para. Man, it's not just like adding
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: a like hitting the shake button in after it like
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: like it's they had to do some real work to
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: make it look real. But like you said, but if
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: if if Fincher didn't like it, you'd be like, Okay,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: well then we're just gonna see it steady and it'd
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: be fine. Still all right, Okay, well I'm okay. Since
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I'm technically hosting this one, I'm making you go first,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: how many you know, like, how many Archie bunkers are
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: you giving this?
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: This film?
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: I you know, it may sound because of some of
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: my criticisms earlier and everything, but just powered by the
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: pure craft of it all and just the precision and
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: the artistry and the performances. I gotta give it a
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: four because it's one of those ones where it's like,
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: maybe I'm being too harsh, maybe I'm not, but I
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: have to absolutely acknowledge that this is somebody who knows
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: what they're doing and how to get what they want,
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: and the people with him know how to deliver what
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: he's looking for.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: So this is a solid four.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: That's the same for me, it's four stars. This is
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: not a perfect film. This is I don't think it's
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: not even one of his best films, nor is it
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: one of my favorites, but it's a damn good film.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: I think this is one of those movies that kind
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: of fell under the radar a little bit I don't
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people talk about it, but it's
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: leagues better than MANK.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: MANK is one that I've continually gone back mentally, and
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I think that rating I gave it was
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: a little too generous back then because then I see
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: the killer and I'm like, you know, honestly, the real
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: the real floor for what I expect from Fincher is
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: like this or Panic Room or it's like I love it,
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: but I can recognize the skill that went into making
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: this damn thing, Like it's ridiculous how much skill went
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: into that.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's a really well, that's
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: a that's a good way.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: To put it.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: There was a lot that I like, there was a
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: there's a few that I can see why this is
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: not a certified hit, Like you know, like when Gone
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Girl came out, You're just like, holy crap, you know
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: this this that capture this guys, people are talking about it.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: This is in your face. And I think that's one
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: of the limits of streaming is that, you know, like
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: you talked about like you're like, oh, I'll just put
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: it in the queue, like you don't feel the need
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: to go see it in the theater with a Nolan film,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: You're like, no, this is an event. I got to
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: see Oppenheimer with The Killer. You're just kind of like
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: not really, like I could see it later. It's fine,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: and I'll still get the same you know, I'll get
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: the same perspective or at least the same sensation. So yeah,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: that's that's one of the aspects of it. And like, hey,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I love streaming. Like I'm not. I'm not one of
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: those guys where just like theater or nothing. No, I
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: think there's love for both. But yeah, I'm giving I'm
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: giving this four stars. I think for the criticisms that
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: we talked about and for all the all.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: The positives too.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: This this is a This is a good film, This
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: is an entertaining film, and this is high up on
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: I think this is This is probably smack dab in
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: the middle of my of my Fincher list is probably
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: fair probably where I would put it. All Right, well, folks,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for listening and indulging us in
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: our pause of House of Emeric and journeying back to
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: the House of Fincher where this podcast began. And if
• 56:46
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• 56:49
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• 56:51
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• 56:54
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• 57:12
  Speaker 2: rating would go a long way. And we are, as
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: we talked about last week. Next week we are going
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: to be extending the House of Emerick a little bit
• 57:23
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• 57:25
  Speaker 2: a horrible note that was Godzilla, and we're hoping to
• 57:30
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• 57:35
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