Latest / Brewsers / Brewsers #394-Dr. Sonat with Koval Distilling

Transcript

Brewsers #394-Dr. Sonat with Koval Distilling · Brewsers

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Bruisers, a podcast about beer, coffee, booze, and Bruisers.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Rody John, and today we talk to Dr.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Sonnet with Koval Distilling. We talk about how Koval got started,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the industry in general, and so much more. This is
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: such a fun conversation. Koval's been doing absolutely amazing things
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: up in Chicago for many, many years now, but you
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: don't want to hear from me. You want to hear
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: from her. So without further ado, here is Dr. Sonnet
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: with Koval Distilling. I would like to welcome to the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: show Dr. Sonnet Berknecker-Hart with Koval Distillery. How are you
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: doing today?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Very well. So nice to be with you. Thank you.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. I'm very excited about this. Awesome.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Paint us a word picture. Where are you at and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: what's going on around you?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I am actually in my office, although from the image
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: on the screen, that is sort of the factory itself
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: that's in front of our still. We actually now have
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: three 5,000 liter stills in the factory, as well as
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: our original 350 liters still that we started with. So
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: we've come a long way. So, but yeah.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Well, let's go all the way back in time. What
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: is your earliest memory of alcohol?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: About alcohol or cobalt?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Alcohol.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Alcohol. Goodness. I don't mean to To rat out my parents,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: but honestly, my first memory of alcohol, I was probably
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: maybe six years old or seven years old. And we
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: were living in Wrigleyville, which is right across from Wrigley Field.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: We were living in a brownstone on Wilton. And right
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: next to the apartment house, there was a little sort
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: of side yard. And we would go out there in
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: the wintertime and we would make snowmen and play in
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the snow. And I remember playing in the snow for
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a very long time. And I remember I was like
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: so cold. It was like your cheeks were prickly. And
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: we came back into the apartment and it was me
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and my sister. I don't even think my brother was
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: born yet. And my mom had these little Waterford crystal
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: tiny glasses. They were sort of like very elegant shot glasses.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: And she was drinking some whiskey out of it. And
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: she let me have a sip. And this was like
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: right after coming out from the cold. And I actually
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: remember the entire event night. I probably remember it so
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: clearly because of the sip of whiskey, but it certainly
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: warmed me up.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: And my mom said, this is, it's very warming. It's
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: very warming, all right. So I would say that is
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: my first memory of alcohol. And actually, you know, it's
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: super inappropriate, but yeah, it was a fond memory.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, to each their own parenthood wise, like they
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: were feeding it to you every day. So, you know,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: one little sip.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Oh no.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: It was just a little tiny sip and it was
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: probably like an off the cuff. Everyone sort of just
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: come in from being outside in the freezing cold, building snowmen.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And it was just, but it went so well with
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the memory and I guess the moment.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So you're the middle child.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I'm actually the oldest. Yeah.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: A little younger. And then I have a brother, but he,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: during that memory was not.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yes. I imagine he's got his own memory of alcohol.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: And your parents. Probably. I mean, my parents were very,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: you know, this was like the eighties, you know, so
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: it was a very kind of a little more relaxed time.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: It seems at least in my memories of it. Um,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I remember going out at night on a
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: school night on a Wednesday to a club in Chicago
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: called Medusa's. And, you know, I was, I was like 15.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: It's a very different world. And, you know, by the way,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: my sister was with me, you know, but they had
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: these like underage clubs and things that were young, you know,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: preteens and teenagers could gather. And unfortunately, I don't even
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: think they have that kind of thing anymore at all.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: And they were there was no alcohol. It was a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: You know, they were just juice bars is what they
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: would call them. But, you know, so at that time period,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it just seemed very, I don't know, open and relaxed
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: and socially an environment that, you know, you just can't
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: even imagine today. I mean, I have two teenagers and
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: so much of their social life is not running to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: a club on a Wednesday night. It's literally like on
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: their phones or... you know, through, you know, activities also,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: but there isn't like a, let's go out to a
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: club or to a place to socialize.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: That's just, I don't know. And, you know, and certainly,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: you know, being in the alcohol industry today, that's something
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: that we've seen sort of, you know, Slow. And I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: feel that it's actually something that people need more than ever.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Like we need this kind of community. And I feel that,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: you know, whether one likes to drink cocktails or likes
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to drink any cocktails or, you know, whatever it is,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: coming together, you know, to meet people and have community
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: and in an unscripted environment where, you know, it's just,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I think that that's a wonderful thing.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my friends and I were talking about that the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: other day, too, because there used to be a club
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: here in the DFW area or in Arlington, for sure,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: that was an underage place. And we're like, those wouldn't exist.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: And like, you can't do that. Like, you can't, but
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: nobody does it. Like, because I guess, again, obviously, like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: with a regular club, you can charge through the roof
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: for a drink and, you know, people are going to
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: pay for it, whether it be alcohol or not. But,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: you know, why wouldn't you then maybe do the same,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: but mocktails or you know, like you said, in a
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: drinks or something like that. But at the same time,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: like you said, teenagers nowadays, when they get together, they're
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: all on their phone and they're sharing stuff, but they're
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: texting it to each other or just like, Hey, look
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: at this. So it's not, I mean, unfortunately the whole
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: pandemic situation for a lot of them really didn't help
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: because they couldn't be around their friends. And whenever they
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: were around their friends again, it was like just a
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: weird situation.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Right. Exactly. It was like fear of coming together with
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: other people. Right. Oh, And as opposed to, you know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: what I had was, I can't wait to get in
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: a group of people, you know, and like not have
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: my parents know where I am and like, you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: be at someone's house or be at some like club.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, is it, it was, it was
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: a really fun time. I feel very lucky to have
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: been a teenager, you know, at that time period. Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And I've also heard this kind of theory that there
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: is no real third space for people where like, For
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: its work, its home, and then a lot of times
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: it is either church or whether you go to a
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: bar or wherever you go for that extra space that
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you do hang out on a regular basis. A lot
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of these, the next generation doesn't really have that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's strange. Although I think that it's going to
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: have to come back because.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Ultimately- Oh, it is, yeah. I mean, the pendulum goes
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: one way and has to come back.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. So I'm hoping that we're, you know, at
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: one end of it and it's going to come back
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and people are going to come together and there's going
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: to be less division and people are going to be
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: more willing to talk to each other, you know, all
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of that. And you know, that's my hope.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, with your tasting room, what, how do you
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: guys try to do that when it comes to, I mean,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: obviously you guys are in a big city. Chicago has
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: always been one of the top five cities in America
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and it's such a melting pot for so many things,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: whether it be, the film world or obviously the music
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: scene has been phenomenal there. And then comedy has been,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you know, with Chicago forever and then the sports teams.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So you want all these people to come and actually
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: create kind of a third space. So how's, how's that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: process been for you guys?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I feel very lucky and it's also, you know,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: in part because, by design that we are that for
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: members of the community. And I think the way that
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you do that is that you allow your community to
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: sort of help dictate how it's going to look. And
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: in that sense, we do that in a few ways.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: One is that we don't like to think of ourselves
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: as you know, apart from the community at all. We
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: are active members of the community. We try and be
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: involved as much as possible. That means like charitably, like
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: what's going on in our community. How can we get involved?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: What are the initiatives? And whether that's just locally in Ravenswood,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: where the distillery is located, or which is also right
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: by Chicago's Malt Row. So there are a lot of breweries,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you know, where we are. So we can work collaboratively
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: with the breweries as well and create community that way to,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: you know, as I said, sort of charitable things that
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: are happening. also charitable things that are happening more broadly
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: that appeal to some of the things that we hold
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: dear at the distillery. So for example, we care a
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: lot about environmental issues. I mean, Coval's an organic distillery.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: We work with sustainable and regenerative agriculture. And so these
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: are things that are important to us. We've partnered with
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: the Shed Aquarium on their program called Let's Shed Plastic.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And so that's like one of the things that where
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: we bring in other communities together. But, you know, we
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: also in our tasting room, which also we have a patio,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: we try and make it as friendly as possible. So,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: for example, you know, we've got lots of games out.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So for people who want to just come and play
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: games with each other, whether they're outdoor games or indoor
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: games or tabletop games, or, you know, we also make
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: it an environment that's comfortable for parents to bring kids.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: And I feel like there's a huge problem, another sort
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of cultural issue, if we want to get into it,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: is that I feel that in our society, you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: young kids often kind of, get left, you know, at
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: home or you have to get a babysitter to go
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: out because it's hard to have a grownup conversation and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: have kids in tow because you're not usually going to
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: go somewhere where there are things for kids to do. Right.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Like we always try and have chalk and games. And
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: like little connect for, for kids. And we have like
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: a little tricycle and we can like close the door
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: of the patio. It's like a, all along the sidewalk.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So kids are trapped and they can't get anywhere and
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: they can sort of run around and their parents can
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: actually sit there and watch them and have a grownup
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: conversation and feel like a moment of comfort, but without
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: even having to leave their kids at home, which I
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: think is really a nice opportunity for, for parents. or
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: caregivers in general. But also, you know, we work with
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: other members of the community that want to bring community
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: together around their interests. So we have people that give
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: bonsai classes, or want to do Magic the Gathering, or
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: that want to do, you know, all sorts of things
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: that you know, they're passionate about. And if they're passionate
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: about them and they're in our community and people want
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: to do these things, then we want to be a
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: place where they can do them. So we offer all
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: sorts of classes and all sorts of fun things, but
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: really this is coming from other community members that want
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to share what they love with others. And we provide
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: sort of a venue for that. So it's a win-win
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: for everybody. And these are the kinds of things that
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: we like to do to bring community together.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I love that you guys are so open when it
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: comes to, yes, bring your kids. Because like you said,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, let's say you're having a birthday
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: party or whatever it is, you know, as for an adult.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But then most of your friends that are once they
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: get over a certain age, they have kids. And so
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: they want to come also. But then also, oh, I
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. I have a kid. It's a it's a distillery.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Is that going to be right? No, it's totally like
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it's not like they're serving the kids drinks or anything
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Most of my friends have kids and we're always at breweries.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: So like some of them have grown up in them.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: And so but that's also you're getting them out in
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the in public and they need to know how to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: act in public, whether it be, you know, what to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: do and not to do. Obviously, pay attention, keep your
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: head on a swivel, that kind of thing.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: And sure.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then also having the things for them to
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: actually entertain themselves that's not a tablet is totally the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: best thing.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we've got tons of games and fun stuff,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and I feel like that is really nice. And you
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: talk about building community. It's like making things easy for people.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: It can sometimes be really hard, and maybe people want
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to go out and have a drink, but they want
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: to bring... their own food or they, you know, how
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: many opportunities do they have to do that? You know,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: we allow people to bring in their own food. We
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: allow people to like go to the local restaurants nearby
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and pick it up and come and enjoy it on
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the patio. Enjoy, have fun. And that's great for the
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: other local businesses. You know, we don't have a big
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: commercial kitchen, so it's really like a win-win and it
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: makes it comfortable for other people. I remember how irritating
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: it was when we were getting married and we would
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: go to different venues and they would just hand you
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: a list of just the, you know what I mean?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: The list of their, you know, approved vendors, you know?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, come on. Like, can't I have
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: my favorite restaurant cater it in? Like, why not? You know?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And so we ended up doing a lot of, you know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: corporate events or charitable events or things where, You know,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: people want to bring their own caterers or work with
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: their own restaurants or things like that. And it's why
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: not let them, you know, I feel like that's like
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: a nice, it's also about building community. So that's just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: another example.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: How did you meet your husband?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's fun. It's a fun story. He actually helped me.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: And I guess biblically, when you look at the root
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: of what it means to have a husband or a wife,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: you know, from that standpoint, it's a help mate. And
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: so he certainly was that. I was a professor at
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the time and I was looking for somebody to help
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: me grade some papers. I was teaching an overload of
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: classes and I was teaching a German language lit class
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: at Goucher College. And this was like 2005 when Google Translate,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I think, was in its like very early iterations. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: so a lot of my students were able to read
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: German and speak German, but the writing was really a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: skill that needed a little more development. And so when
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: they had this paper they had to write about a
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Kafka short story, the papers that I received were very
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Kafkaesque and that it took me a lot of time
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to interpret what some of the things were that they
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: were trying to say. So I needed some assistance. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: so I tried to find a TA all over the place.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And nobody was interested because it was sort of right
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: before an exam period. So I started thinking out of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the box. So I was like, why don't I call
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: the German embassy and see if they have some interns.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: So I did. And they're like, and they hung up
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: on me and I was like, ah, okay. So then
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I called the Austrian embassy and they're like, which is
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: sort of like more of like a Viennese, like sort
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: of Austrian kind of more chill way of going about it.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: So they connected me to Robert. who at the time
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: was the deputy press secretary of the Austrian embassy. And
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: he was the guy with the interns. And so I,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I spoke to him and I said, I was looking
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: for an intern to grade some German papers or help
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: me with them. And, you know, he said, you know, I'll,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I'll reach out to my interns. I'll call you back,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: call me back, said, good news, bad news, bad news
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: is none of my interns want to do this. They
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: just want to hang out in New York over the weekend.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Good news is I'm not busy this weekend. I'll do
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: it for you. And so, He did. And it was
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: the most amazing job. Literally, he created like a color
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: coded key with all the different errors. I mean, it
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: was so pedantic and so wonderful. And I was so relieved.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: And so because it took me literally like two hours
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: of paper or more. And then I remember him telling
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: me when I picked them up, I was like, He's like,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: you know, when I read the first one, he's like,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, this is a bad one, but I'm
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: sure there'll be better. He's like, no, they're all really bad.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: So he helped me and then he invited me out
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: and we went out and then I said, well, nothing's
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: going to happen because I'm moving to take a position
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: as a professor in Germany. So I'm not going to
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: have a long distance relationship. And he said, that's okay.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I'll just come to Germany. And I was like, yeah, okay.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, right. I mean, you know, it just,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of times, you know, at least in my
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: own personal experience, I had done a lot of the
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: following the guy situation, you know, and it never really,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you know, resulted in where I wanted it to go ultimately.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And so I was always, I was a little jaded.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, right. Okay, sure. You'll come to Berlin.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: But then he did. And then we got married and
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: we have, you know, two wonderful children and a business together.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So there you go. Sometimes you've got to like really
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: go for it.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, all those times that it didn't work out
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was just saving up karma for later when it actually
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: went the other way.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It was getting me to where I needed to be.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Exactly. You have to go through these lessons in life
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: and then the good happens in the end.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's all learning. It's all learning
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and wonderful experience.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So what is your doctorate in?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: It is in German cultural history.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: What did you hope to do with that when you
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: were getting the doctorate in that?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Be a professor, which I was. So I did that
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: for a decade. And then I wanted to be in Chicago.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I wanted to move back. I wanted to be close
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: to my parents as they were aging. I love Chicago.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't imagine having children anywhere else. I just
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: had such a happy childhood in the city that I
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: felt like, you know, I wanted to at least have
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: some echo of that for my children. Um, and, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: so luckily Robert was also gay. It was like, yeah,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: let's go to Chicago. Let's let's start a business. Let's
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: do it. So, you know, it's, it's been fabulous. Yeah.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, tell us how did, uh, Koval begin?
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we were pregnant with our first child.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And that's a very big, you know, crossroads for people,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you know, where you kind of really start taking stock
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: of how you want your life to be. yeah and
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: so we were talking about it and we were living
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: in the dc area at the time and you know
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: i was like you know if we were thinking about
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: buying a home and settling down but then as we
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: were going through those motions and every home that we
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: were looking at this was also in like 2007 right
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: before the bubble burst and So every home in our
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: price category was like, as is, or like, bring vision,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: you know, and then bring vision.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, exactly. And then you'd like run out with
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: your like your shirt over your mouth, because there was
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: like a black mold in the basement, you know. So
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: it was like, it got to the point where like,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you know what, maybe this just isn't right. Maybe we
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: don't want to settle down here. Maybe like all this,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like running around trying to find a home that's just
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel right for us is just the wrong path altogether.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And then we started thinking, maybe this is a moment
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to just do something completely different. And so we, uh,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: thought that we would just start a business together. And
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: then when trying to figure out what that business would be,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Robert comes from three generations of distillers in Austria. his
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: grandfather still has a functioning cidery and distillery in, you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the part of Austria where they filmed Sound of Music.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: The hills are alive over there, let me tell you. And,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: and so, you know, he grew up distilling his chores,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: never really, you know, he went and got a PhD
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and worked for the Austrian embassy, did not think that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: he would be a distiller, you know, later in life,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: but It actually started to make a lot of sense.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: And when we came to thinking that we would do this,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: there were, I think there were less than 50 DSPs
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: in the entire United States. I mean, if you think
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: about it, you know, I think GQ magazine did a
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: whole article about like whiskey family tree in around 2010,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: which was a few years after we started even. And
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: back then most whiskey brands that people knew, and you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: quite frankly, it's still true today are made by one
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: of like maybe nine companies.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So it was like, there really wasn't much of a
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: craft world at the time. I mean, you had your
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: over at hanger one, um, and you had like, you,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: you had a few outliers that were doing some really
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: interesting things, old portrayal at the time, uh, coming out of, um,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the brewery in San Francisco. So there were a few,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you know, Hudson, Whiskey, they had started, but there really
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: weren't that many at all. And so we decided that
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: we would start the first distillery in Chicago since the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: mid 1800s.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And in doing that. Uh, we reached out to, I sent,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: you know, coming from Chicago. I knew, I know how
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Chicago works a little bit. I had, you know, if
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the alderman doesn't want you to do what you're going
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: to do, then that's not the right part of the
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: city for you. So I reached out and sent letters
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to about 10 aldermen and two got back to me,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: but one got back to me very quickly and on
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: my cell phone. And it was alderman Jean Schulter. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: he said, you know, sign it. I like what you're doing.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I want you in my ward. I got a guy.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: He's got a place. It's perfect for you. When are
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: you coming to look at it? And I was like, whoa,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: this is really the city that works.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: No question.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And so we came to Chicago for the weekend. We
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: met our future landlord. The place was great. It was
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: in exactly the place where we wanted to be and
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: should be. And that's sort of how it started. It
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: was really like, The city just, it made sense. And
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: then the city really did work for us. And, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I give Chicago a lot of credit because at the time,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you know, when we were starting, we also became consultants
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: for the industry as well. And that's also one of
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the ways that we were, you know, grew Koval and
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: remained independent all these years. But the city of Chicago,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: unlike a lot of cities, because we worked with a
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: lot of different cities, a lot of different towns, Um,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: some places made it so difficult, you know, and Chicago
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: was really open and willing to work with us and,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: you know, so helpful actually at the end of the day.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And it's, that's not true everywhere. And so we had
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: a amazing experience with everybody that we worked with in
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the city and it was the right place to be.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And so ultimately, you know, as we started you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: distilling and getting, going that way. We also started consulting
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and helping other people get equipment because at that time
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: there really were not very many options for distillers, craft
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: distillers to find equipment that would be appropriate for a
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: small scale operation. Um, you had a few companies, a
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: lot of them were originally like brewing equipment companies, but
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of the distillery equipment companies are German. So
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: we started working with one of these companies, Cota Distilling Technologies,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: bootstrapping it. We helped them. We translated their website into
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: English from the German. We became their manufacturer's representatives, you know,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: all the things. Then we started working with tank companies
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: and then we started working with bottling line companies. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: so really we started working with all the hardware companies
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: as well as, quite frankly, software in that Robert and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: some of our colleagues in Germany We, you know, Robert
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: was very involved in creating automation systems for craft sized
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: distilleries so that they wouldn't have to fly blind ever.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: There'd be sensors on everything that they would know what
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: was happening so that they would have a lot of
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: the same technological advancements and opportunities open to them that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: some of the big guys have. And so that's something
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: that we also, you know, we're very much involved in
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: bringing to, uh, the U S and to Chicago. Certainly,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: you know, we started workshops, we educated over 3,500 people
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and how to start distilleries. Robert, uh, has set up
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: 250 distilleries all over the world for others. You know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: we've set up a lot of the local Midwestern ones.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: We set up a few. We set up Journeymen, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Middle West Spirits in Ohio. We set up, you know,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: we were involved with, you know, helping Woodinville. We did
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: some white label distilling for Whistlepig before they had a still.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: We helped High West with some of their equipment. So
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: we've been very involved in a lot, but it's not just,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: you know, here, you know, Robert also set up a
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: number of distilleries all over the world. So we just
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: set up a distillery in Belize called Bakehouse Distillery. We've
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: set up like three distilleries in Japan, you know, craft
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: distilleries in Japan. So it's been quite an adventure. I mean, really,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: even Robert was in Uganda setting up the largest rum
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: distillery there. So- There's been a lot that's happened around
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Koval and because of Koval and in tandem with Koval
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that has given us a really fun look at the
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: industry as a whole.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think about it because I had read that, yeah,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: you guys were the first one, especially since Prohibition to
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: start in Chicago. But I didn't think about back in 2008,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: like you were saying, the craft scene of alcohol was
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: not really a thing. Like craft beer, obviously, was everywhere.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: But by that point, that hasn't even started yet. So
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: you guys, obviously, Balcones here in Texas, I would imagine
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: there was a couple other here in a couple other
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: states as well, but there wasn't much. And now again,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: if you go into a liquor store, obviously, you're going
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: to see the big guys. But at the same time,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: they're running out of room when it comes to having
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: all this, whether it be local or more craft, wherever
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it's coming from. But again, back in, you know, almost
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: 20 years ago, that wasn't a thing.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. So it was a very interesting time to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: get started. And it was also very exciting to be
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: involved in helping other people and providing them with really
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: great equipment and also, you know, good systems that help
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: them compete, you know, in, in this world, because it's
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: a really tough business. Yeah. Um, and you know, as
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: we've seen, I believe last year, 25% of all craft
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: distilleries in the United States went out of business.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: So it's, it's, it's a tough business in general and
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it's a business that's gotten even tougher. So, uh, I
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: feel like, you know, helping people in this industry survive
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: and thrive has been really one of the greatest parts of,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: of doing what we're doing. It's, it's, you know, you
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: talk about community. I mean, that's, It's really nice to
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: know that people that were in our original classes and that,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you know, were some of our first customers, they also
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: now have children, they're about to go to college and,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: and that that's how they supported their families and that
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: other people were supported by working for them. And it's,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: it's really exciting that we were part of this whole
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: new industry in the United States. And it was so
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: new that when we were getting going, the TTB had
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to send one of their, well, he happened to live
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: about a block from the distillery itself, but the TTB
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: rewrote a lot of their regulations and rules related to
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: craft distilleries sort of modeled off of us because the
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: way things were written before just did not apply to
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a craft distillery it just didn't like you weren't going
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to be a craft distillery and have everything like bolted
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to the ground if you were using a plastic, you know,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: fermentation tank that you were just like moving around with
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: a forklift.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, like there were things that just, just didn't work,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: you know, in the old format.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: So it was nice to be a part of, you know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: forging all of that ahead into, you know, new ways
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: of doing business.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier about how, you know, last year,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: at least 25% were, are now closed, unfortunately. Being in
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: the industry, as long as you have What have you
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: kind of seen? Obviously, you know, we're going to have
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: peaks and valleys and we might think you might be
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: entering somewhat of a valley now. I don't know how
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: much it is with tariffs or obviously they're saying the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: next generation is not drinking as much or again, people
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: not having that third space or whatever it is. But
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: what have you kind of seen when it comes to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: obviously the ebbs and flows over these past few years?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, it's been really interesting because I think
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that they're, one of the ebbs and flows that I've
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: noticed has been in the interest in American spirits in general.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: We have been available internationally for a very long time,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I would say over 15 years. And with that you know,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: that means that we don't just send our products over
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: to Europe or Japan and hope for the best. We
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: actually have to be involved in those markets and go
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: to those markets and hold those markets. And one of
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: the things we were noticing, and I would say particularly
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: in Europe, was that when we first started going to
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of these trade shows, and I mean, like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Not the big ones. I'm not talking about like ProVine or,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you know, Bar Convent Berlin, but I'm talking about like
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: smaller side like trade shows that you'd find, like maybe
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: one that was happening in Rome or one that was
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: happening in like Frankfurt or, you know, ones that, you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: were not like huge headliners, but were certainly important in
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the cities where they existed. Right. And you did not
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: see a lot of American whiskey brands at these shows.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: You just did not in the very early days when
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: we were going to these shows. But then over time,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: it started to really grow and develop. And there was
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: much more interest in American whiskey. And it was like, really,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: there was an excitement around it. And you'd go and,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: you know, all the guys that were there that, you know,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: were wearing kilts and had like, you know, they're tasting
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: around their necks. And, you know, like the, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: the real, true whiskey. you know, whiskey event goers, you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: we're coming over to sort of the American booths way
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: more than ever before. And then you started having like
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: tariffs and, and this has been true. This is regardless
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: of administration, you know, these tariffs were happening like on
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: and off and the threat of them were happening on
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: and off. So then that sort of started causing some issues.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: And then COVID really messed a lot up because, you know,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the momentum that had been growing was shut off. You know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: exporting abroad became very difficult, you know, because shipping was
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: horribly expensive. And so there was like a lot of
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: people turned a lot more inward, local, which is, you know, fine.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: It is what it is. But it was really hard
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: on brands that had spent a lot of time and
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: energy building things up in markets that were far away
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: that then became kind of closed off because of COVID.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: And then afterwards, more also because of more tariffs and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: then because of people getting a little grumpy with America,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: as we've seen with Canada and some other places. So
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: it's I'm hoping, you know, as our trade organization says, toasts,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: not tariffs, you know, but also, you know, we're all
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: about good times and building bridges. I feel like that's
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: what the liquor industry is all about. And so I
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: feel that, you know, we're not just soft diplomacy, but
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: we're like fun people. party diplomacy, you know, what, there's
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: no better kind, you know, than going to a party
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: and celebrating with people and drinking great spirits. And so
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I'm hopeful that over time, you know, things will, you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: get better and, and that it will become more exciting
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: for American brands to be going to some of these
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: trade shows and getting a lot of interest and, But
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: it's been rough with everything that's gone on, whether it's tariffs, COVID,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: and this general cultural shift that we've seen post-COVID, where
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of people just don't go out as much.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: They're used to ordering in. And so that's an issue.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: A lot of people have gotten into... you know, a
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: interest in, um, no drinking, you know, first it was like,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: you know, dry January and now it's like dry many months,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: you know, for people, you know, it's like, so, which
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: is fine. It's, you know, these are, these are things
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: that ebb and flow and people need to do whatever's,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: you But obviously, it's been hurtful for the industry to
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: have these trends take people away from going out and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: having some drinks with friends at a restaurant or a bar,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: or even going and buying the drinks in a retail
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: store and making them at home. So these are other things. Obviously,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: another issue that's affecting things, and we'll see how this
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: ebbs and flows over time, is Ozempic.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: The GLP-1s are not helping.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: No, I can't deny that those are, have not been
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: great for, you know, drinking or going out and eating
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: for that matter. So it's, you know, these are all things,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I think they're trends, obviously, you know, they'll ebb and
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: flow as well. Alcohol has been around for a very
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: long time. And, and at the end of the day,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: it still is a lot of fun. and joyful to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: go out with friends and to drink some cocktails. I mean,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it always has been for me. So I would imagine
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: that part doesn't change. It's just some people may leave
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it for a while or come back to it. We'll see.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Have you thought about adding protein to your drink? So funny.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Honestly, that would do really well. Let me tell you.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the first alcohol company to do it
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: i'm just gonna i'm just gonna because i was like
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: what we don't need to be adding protein everything.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Believe me i mean protein is such a.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Thing fiber is next if yeah which people aren't going
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to realize that you can have too much fiber yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Oh for sure yeah yeah fiber protein creatine you name
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: it that's what like everyone's drinking but yeah i i
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: still think there's something to be said for an old-fashioned.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Oh same without it up you can It's its own thing.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: You know, but yeah, sure. Go to the gym, drink
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: your creatine, then go out with friends and have cocktail.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. You earned it. You went to the gym.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: You did. You did a good job. Well done.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I also kind of want, well, I mean, you guys
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: have already been doing it with your, so I need
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to preface this. The RTD market is one of the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: only growing categories inside the whole alcohol world, whether it
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: be the buzz balls or actual like, you know, what
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: we see when it comes to liquor side. So you
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: guys have been doing this. How long have y'all had
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: canned cocktails?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: About a year.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Now was that decision because you saw what was happening
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: with the market?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Um, it's, you know, it's, it's a different channel. I mean, it's, it's, yes,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: it's with the market. It's sort of how people like
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: to drink sometimes, but it's also, you know, it's, It's,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: it's great for venues where they don't want a glass,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: you know, so like poolside or, you know, golf clubs or,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: you know, we, we wanted to see how it would work,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: you know, opening up these new channels.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: How has it worked so far?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it's okay. I would say at the end
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: of the day, um, when you put an organic spirit
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: that costs a lot of money to make into a
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: canned cocktail, you're competing against some products on the market
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: that are significantly less expensive. You know, obviously we don't
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: use chemicals. We don't use dyes. We don't do any
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: of that stuff. And so, you know, what we're putting
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: in there is not cheap to stick in a can,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: even if it's in. So, you know, I have mixed reviews.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Well, so have you, what do you think of this
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: trend that I hope happens more, but it is people
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: actually putting the ingredients or the nutritional stuff right there
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: on the labels as well?
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Sure. By all means. I mean, we've always said what
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: we put in our, our bottles. So if you look
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: at Koval, it says the mash bill and, you know,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: and we've done even more. We just did an update
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: of our Koval packaging and we're even more explicit on
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that or you can see even more stuff and, you know,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: how it's sustainably made, how it's uses regenerative agriculture, you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: organic is now embossed on the bottle to just drive
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: that part home. So, you know, that there's like, you know,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: no dye, like all that kind of stuff. So sure. Yeah.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: By all means. But I don't think it's likely that
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot of that in the
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: liquor industry. Keep in mind, it's like the only industry
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: in which you don't have that really on the bottles. And,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: you know, and it's one of these industries where you
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: can put things in and not have to tell anybody.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: On very shady, you know, you can add like, sugar,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: citric acid, what is it? Like also glycerol, like these
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: things into vodka. I mean, you think vodka is like pure,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: you know, or it's like a clean spirit. Well, it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: probably full of something because it's legal, you know, and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: people can look this up, you know, TTB, what can
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I add to vodka? And there are plenty of companies
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: that sell like flavor enhancing you know formulas for vodka
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: um i mean we know we can solve for people
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: so we know what everybody's doing but at least a
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people so it's just it's a it's it's
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: i'm all for it because you know we're happy to
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: do that but i'm sure there are a lot of
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: people who are a lot more powerful oh yeah don't
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: want to do that so we'll see when that happens Yeah.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: You're not going to see the big guys. You're not
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: going to start seeing that on Jack Daniels or Jim
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Bean or even Balcones or anything like that. Like Tito's
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: vodka is also not going to put all their ingredients.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Like most of them are not going to make that happen.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what they're doing, but
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I would imagine that, you know, some of these companies
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: probably would rather not share what goes into their products. So,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: you know, but I don't know which ones I don't,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know what these big guys are up to.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think you want to know, honestly. You might
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: not sleep as well at night.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I stay in my lane. I worry about how
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: to make my own stuff better. I'm not one of
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: those people that sort of like follows the competition or
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: worries about that or like those kinds of trends. I mean,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, okay, what can we be doing better?
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: But that's my main mantra. So more, you know, I
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: wish them all the best. But yeah, for us, we
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: just need to be laser focused on what we're doing.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Well, coming from academics and then getting into the alcohol world,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I imagine your brain was just flooded because it's like
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: trying to drink from a fire hose when it comes
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: to the alcohol world. But what were some things that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: actually did fascinate you? And then what were something that
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you were just like, I will probably never understand this?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Well... you know, it's an art and a science. Yeah. And,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: you know, in the very beginning, it was just me
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: and Robert. So we kind of did everything together. And
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: if Robert was like setting up a distillery, you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I would have to like sometimes do some of these
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: distilling runs myself and this and that I would follow
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: like all the instructions and just make sure I was
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: doing everything the way, you know, But I would say
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: like distilling really well is it's not easy sometimes. I mean,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: especially when you're working with grains that are incredibly viscous,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: you know, like rye, stuff like that. So I would
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: say like, you know, as our business grew, I was
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: very happy that, you know, Robert took over all of
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: the production side of things entirely. And I was able
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to focus more on like the sales and the marketing
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: and building that. And so it's been really wonderful, like,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: you know, working with my husband, knowing that he's like
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: so fantastic at what he does, you know, and that
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I can focus on the things that I do best. So,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean I'm not like fascinated. I'm always
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: fascinated by, you know, yeast strains and like, Oh, we
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: use champagne yeast for this, or should we use a
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: different kind of yeast for that? So it's like, those
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: are like fun things to talk about and to enjoy and,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of little intricacies and certainly we
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: love working with alternative grains. And so that's been like
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a fun sort of passion project for all of us
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: to explore different grains and working with oat and working
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: with millet and, you know, working with buckwheat and all
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: of these like fun grains, but not just that, but
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: also with like fun other things to distill, like like
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Jerusalem artichokes, or we made a topinopura, which is like
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: the Austrian or German word for a Jerusalem artichoke brandy. And,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: you know, like, so there's so many fun and exciting
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: things to geek out about in this business and industry. Also,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: like I find, you know, the hardware pretty amazing, you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: the still construction and also the automation. And now it's
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: not just like the automation, but it's, it's AI and
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: how that can be integrated into automation and collecting big
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: data and figuring out when the best yields are for
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: various grains to, to buy and to work with our farmers. And,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: you know, so there's, there's so many things that you
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: can be really like excited and geek out about, but
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I would say like, in general, what's been most fun
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: and exciting is just the, the, the breadth, like just
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the ability to, to be able to think about and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: explore so many different things. You know, it's like, it
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: is like academia where you're able to sort of like
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: really just spend a lot of time learning, you know,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: and that's something that we were given the opportunity to
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: do with this. And also through consulting where like, we'd
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: be given like a project and we'd have to like
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: research it and figure it out and help other people
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: with their issues. And that's been really super fun. Like, yeah,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I remember we did this wild project for these guys
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: that wanted to sell only to China and they wanted
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: us to make like a Baiju for them. but like
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: in a really traditional way where we then were like
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: working with like pottery studios and getting clay pots and
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: like all sorts. I mean like really wild, fun stuff
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: that we've like done in the past through all of
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: our work consulting that, you know, is really fun and wild. So,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I would say that, that it's, It's always
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: different and it's always something. So, yeah, it's so, you know,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: it's hard to like pinpoint one thing because there's just
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: been so much.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. Well, so when it comes, I mean,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: obviously you own this business with your husband and you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: guys are doing this all the time. Is there a
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: time where you have to have like a safe word
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: where you're like, okay, we're done talking about business. not
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: happening we're out around vacation or we're out to dinner
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: or whatever.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: It is no there's there's not there's none of that
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: like literally my kids probably have an mba now in
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: business like even though they like you know my my
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: older son is just a freshman in college but literally
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: like they know everything they know about trademarks they know
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: about trademark law they know about this, they know about
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: international law, they know about trade, you know, trade wars, trade, like,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: they know about new, I mean, literally, it's like, there
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: isn't a dinner, a family dinner, anything where something doesn't
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: seep in, right? Like, really not. And people might think
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: that sounds horrible. But at the end of the day,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: if you, you know, enjoy the people you're working with,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: and you enjoy what you're doing, why does it matter? Yeah. Now, granted,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Robert's not usually thrilled when at two in the morning,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: like I have this great idea about like how we
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: can approach distribution and like this particular market. And he's like,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: oh my God, he's like, please, like, can we table this?
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, we got to talk about this
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: right now. And so like, I'm like, get out the computer,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: you know, and then we'll like get out the computers
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: and then we'll like sometimes like work on some sort
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: of problem like in the middle of the night. And
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that that's not the most like, you know, thrilling,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: wonderful thing. But sometimes it's in the middle of the
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: night that you have like your best ideas or you've
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: got like a really great way of doing something. So
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: we kind of just roll with it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I've heard people put notepads right by their bed or
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: they use the note app and they'll just do that.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Then they'll go back to bed. Then they wake up
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: the next morning and it's like, oh, what was I
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: thinking about whenever I was blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I am a strong advocate of like these late night, midnight,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: wake up in the middle of the night ideas that
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: they can be very good, I will say. But sometimes
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: we have a tendency to then like just start working
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: on it. So, you know. Yeah. probably isn't always the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: best but we're not you know great sleepers so oh.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Well there you go then then that's perfectly fine yeah
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: yeah there you go well maybe i mean you're functional
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: obviously so you don't yeah.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly that's what my doctor says i'm like what if
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: i don't what if i get like four hours of
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: sleep i mean he's like well if you're able to
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: function it's probably okay but so yeah.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: We're functioned yeah you're fun yeah Well, I mean, so
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: when you're creating a brand, obviously you have to figure
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: out what the name is going to be, what the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: logo is going to be, what the bottle looks like.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: You have to figure all that out. How did kind
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: of all those things come together for y'all?
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it came together because we were really bad at it. Um,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: in the sense that, you know, there are some things
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: that we're good at. Um, and then there's some things
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: that we're really good at. And then there's some things
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: that really somebody needs to step up and be like, guys, like,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: like do an intervention. And so my sister, um, gave
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: sort of like a little intervention. Luckily this was very
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: early days. So when it was, things were a lot
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: more forgiving in this liquor industry. So when we first started,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Robert and I literally did everything ourselves and
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: neither of us are particularly artistic people, visually artistic people
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: at all. Robert's certainly a great artist when it comes
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: to distilling, but, but yeah, So, you know, we made
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of labels ourselves. Luckily, my mom is an artist.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: And so for our liqueurs, she drew beautiful imagery for
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: our liqueurs.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Those labels are amazing.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that was gorgeous. But, you know, our original,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: you know, labels and our original whiskey was just Robert
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: and I. My mom did give us a little lion
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: to go on the front because it was our original
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: whiskey was called like Lion's Pride. Right. And so she
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: gave us a little line, but then we messed up
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: the rest of it because we put all these like
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: random fonts together and we literally made it probably on word,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: you know, some like Sunday morning while our like little
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: kids at the time were like watching wheels on the bus.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: And like, it was just, um, not the best. And
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: so my sister who's been in fashion for her whole
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: life and, um, had a design for me, how lucky
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: she got all those jeans. Um, had a design firm, um,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: called Dando projects. She kept being like, I think you
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: really need to change your branding. You're only going to
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: do it. You know, why don't you go to somebody
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: just like her branding? Cause she did like fashion at
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: the time, not like her. And so we did, we
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: went to somebody that did like her and they did
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: a really good job. like more than we had at
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: the time for like a really good laugh. It was like,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: it was laughably bad. So my sister was horrified because
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: she sort of told us to do this and then
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: it went terribly wrong. And so she's like, I'm just
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: going to do this myself. And so then she did.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: And then we started winning all these design awards. So like,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: then she did our gin and our gin packaging was like,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: was a paper label that was foiled and embossed and
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: laser cut. And it was actually the first one that
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: was like so intricately laser cut out as it is.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: And it ended up being in a design museum in
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Italy at one point. It's just, it did like really well.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: And it was just, it's a gorgeous label. So that
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: really helped. She redid the original Koval whiskey line to
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: make it very simple, very clear, very clean. And she's
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: also behind our new redesign of the whiskey branding. So
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: we're very excited about that. But then when we wanted
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: to do a high-end line, which we released last year,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: a year and a half ago, called Threshen Winnow. Yes.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that. Cause these bottles, if people go
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: to your website and look at y'all spirits, these bottles
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: are beautiful.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, Dando projects, they are the best. They're really like,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I might, they're like the best in the industry for
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: liquor bottles. I mean, she's, she doesn't just design our bottles.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's done so many brands. And if you
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: go to the Dando project, Instagram, you'll see a lot
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: of gorgeous bottles that she's done. Um, But Thresh and Winnow,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: we wanted something. The design brief that I gave to
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: her was so hard, but she hit it out of
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the park. I was like, I want something that reminds
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: everybody that this is an agricultural product, that it is
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: a organic product, that it is made land to bottle
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: pretty much. And I want it to work for both
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a gin line and a whiskey line, but look different.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, great.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, you know, she knocked it out of the park.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: The whiskey line won best packaging in the world for whiskey.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I see it.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from the dye line, we wanted it to be
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: a bottle no one would ever want to throw away,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: that they would use it as a vase, use it
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: as a decanter, you know, use it to bring fun
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: cocktails to the table. Once the spirit's done, they could
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: fill it up with like cocktails to serve. So it's gorgeous.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And then the gin line, she was super innovative, which
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: is probably also one of the reasons why she won
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: this Best Design Award, because on the front of the
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: whiskey bottle is all the grains and on the back
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: are botanicals. And then for the gin line, the front
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: are the botanicals and on the back are the whiskey grains.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: And so it's a really, not just beautiful bottle, but
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: incredibly innovative and really the only bottle like that, you know,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: in the world. And so- We were very blessed and
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: lucky that we have like a talented family that stands
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: with us and helps us along the way.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, like you were talking about earlier, it's
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: all about community.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely. And we're really lucky that, you know, a
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: lot of what we've done with Koval is related to family.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: where we've always been inspired by family and believed in family.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: And honestly, the entire company's named after family. Koval was
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: a nickname given to my great-grandfather when he left Vienna
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to come to Chicago to start a battery company. And
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: they gave him the nickname because in many Eastern European languages,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Koval means blacksmith or smith. In Yiddish, it also means
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: somebody who, like a blacksmith, can take metal and twist
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: its shape and change its direction. So can somebody do
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: that with their life? Like they can take their life
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: and go forge in a different direction. And that's what
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: he did with his life. And in doing that, he
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: got the nickname Koval, which happens to also mean Schmied,
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: which is Robert's grandfather's last name, which also means Koval
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: or blacksmith in German. So it honors both sides of
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: the family. It honors the spirit of turning the page
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: and allowing your life to have a completely new chapter,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: bending that metal. It's hard to change your life, but
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: sometimes it's really well worth it. And so we did that.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: And the real amazing part of this whole thing is
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that as we grew in Chicago from one facility to
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: another and outgrew them and outgrew them, And we finally
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: found the space that we're in today, which is our
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: permanent home. We went into the building at the time
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: it was just for rent and we went into the
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: factory and actually it's the building you see behind my
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: picture here. We went into that warehouse and there was
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: nothing in it except for one thing in the middle
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: of the room. And we were very nervous because, you know,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: it's like when you own your own business, it's like,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: any big move you make is like such a risk,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: you know, and, and putting yourself down for a big,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: you know, rental payment every month, big, you know, payment it's,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: it's a lease is really risky. And so it was
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: a very expensive one. We weren't sure we could do it.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: And it really assumed a lot more growth. And then
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I walked into the middle of the factory and what
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I'd seen happened to be a battery charger made by
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: my great grandfather. Got the nickname Koval, yes. And it
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: had been left by the previous tenants. And I said
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: to the landlord at the time, I said, Mario, if
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: we rent this space from you, can I buy this
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: battery charger? And he's like, if you rent this space,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: you can have it. And I was like, okay. We
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: have to do it. We have to do it. It
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: was just meant to be. And it really was meant
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: to be. And now it's our permanent home and we've
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: taken over the whole building and it's ours. And yeah,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: it's been quite an adventure.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Where's the battery charger now?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: It's actually in our little tour visitor center. I love that.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: When we moved in, it actually worked. My grandfather's company stop.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: They sold in the seventies and they hadn't existed since
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: the seventies, but the battery actually still worked. It was
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: a battery charger and we used it to charge our
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: forklift for years.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: But then when we would tell the story, everyone would
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: want to go see it. And then it'd be in
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: like some.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Part of the factory or, you know, charging a forklift.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: And then we'd have to like bring people down and
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: put on their safety glasses. And it was just like
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: a whole thing. So what we ended up doing is
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: we decommissioned it and just now it's in our Visitor Center.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So, but it warms my heart whenever I
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: see it it's like it's it's amazing I feel like,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: you know, there are so many things that happen in
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: a person's life and they only are where they are
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: because of all the people who came before them and
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: sometimes they're like little ripples in time that show up
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: in really unexpected ways that show that you know all
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: those people that came before you are kind of still
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: there in one way or another you know maybe you
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: see it maybe you have an experience like this maybe
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: it's just inside of you and you're realizing something that,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: you know, may have been a dream of somebody that,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: you know, from long ago, but it's, it, it happens.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: And I think it's really beautiful.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Well, so, I mean, you talk about, we
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: started in 2008, we're in 2026 now, 18 years later,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: what would you could, what would you tell that? What
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: would you tell yourself back in 2008?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, back in 2008. Wow. I would say, goodness gracious.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I would, I would just remind myself to enjoy every
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: single moment because it goes so quickly and they were
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: all so beautiful. Like every different stage was, was really
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: fun and amazing in different ways. You know, it's like
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: when the kids were really little and we had our
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: kids close at hand and And they were, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: at the business with us and they had their own office.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: They had like their, you know, where they would go
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: to their office. So, you know, when we would go
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: to our office and, and then we'd always, you know,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: have lunch together and hang out and they would hear
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: all about everything that was going on. And, you know,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: they would try and tell us to get more billboards,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: you know, like it was like, it was really fun and,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: and it just goes so quickly, you know? And then
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: before you know it, you're dropping your kid off at college.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's, it's shocking. how fast time goes. So
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I would say back then to just enjoy every moment
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: because it goes so fast. And I think that's just
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: true for anything and everyone.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: You're true. So you did kind of name some highlights there,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: but what to you are some more highlights that you
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: y'all have had over the past few years?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would say definitely seeing some of the
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: people who are in our original, like early classes do
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: very well. and become such important parts of the community
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: has been really happy and fun for us. You know,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: so that's been great. I would say that how it's
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: opened the world to us has been so exciting. Being
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: able to go to Japan and, you know, work in Japan, like,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: you know, and actually have, like, you know, colleagues there
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: and a team member who's there full time for us
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: and just get such an insight into a very different
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: place that I find very compelling and exciting and fun
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: and just super tasty. The food there, incredible. So that's
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: been a real joy that's really grown out of this.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have ever had that.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: And I'd always been very drawn to Japan as a child.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Cause my, my parents were super into Japanese movies.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, interesting.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, you know, 12 years old and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: it seemed like every Japanese movie that like had existed
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: probably that had made its way over to America. And,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: you know, Chicago was really a strong, there was a
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: very strong Japanese community in Chicago. And we would always
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: go to the Ginza festival in the summer and, And, uh,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: and Toguri Mercantile Exchange, which was like a really, a
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: neat store, um, in my old neighborhood. Um, it doesn't
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: exist anymore, sadly, but it was a real center of
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Japanese culture. And so these were places that I grew
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: up going to and I loved it. And so it
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: felt very natural and to be able to really want
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: to do business there and want to, you know, become
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: sort of more involved in that world. And, and we've
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed that part. So I would say it's, you know, it's,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: it's opened up worlds, but what I would say, probably
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: one of the most amazing experiences, um, actually had nothing
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: to do with alcohol, well, drinkable alcohol at all. It
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: was actually during COVID. when we shifted everything to making
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: hand sanitizer.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: And updating all of it, most of what we made
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: to nonprofits and frontline workers and changing my entire business
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: from like a manufacturer of alcohol to a manufacturer of
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: like basically a sanitizer product, you know, that was like
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: where we went from working, you know, in one industry
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: to like talking to nursing homes and hospitals and, you know,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: all sorts of things. But it was the fact that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: my whole team really came together and didn't just work 110%,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: but I would say like 200%. Like we were working
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: around the clock because we were, We're making it for
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: the entire city of Chicago. We were all of the
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: hospitals there. We were making it for places as far
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: away as like Maryland, you know, hospitals in Wisconsin, in Indiana,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: you know, the FBI in the Midwest. I mean, like
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: you name it, like it was like we sold some
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: to businesses. But we gave away about a quarter of
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: a million dollars worth of hand sanitizer to help frontline workers.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: And being able to work with the city and we
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: didn't do it alone. We did this with like every
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: brewery in the city of Chicago gave us their beer
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: that we distill into hand sanitizer and give to the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: hospitals in Chicago. We talk about a beer run. We
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: did this with... So many other companies that donated their
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: glass and donated their their vessels. The company that makes
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: the the the containers for glue, you know, like children's glue,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: you know, glue, the company that makes those little containers
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: that you can like screw off the top. donated a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: bunch of those containers for us so that we can
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: make a hand sanitizer that could be donated to people
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: who were like unhoused and in that community because they
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: were out and they needed to clean their hands too
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: and be able to be safe and things like that.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: So it was really an amazing experience. The City of
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Chicago Tourism Board Choose Chicago started basically being a logistics
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: company where they would come and pick up the hand
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: sanitizer from our distillery and deliver it to the different
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: wards in the city. So I would say like, I'd
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: never experienced so much loving kindness of everyone coming together
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: to do whatever they could to donate their time and
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: their efforts and their money. And there were businesses that
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: donated lots of money so we could buy more of
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: the raw materials. There was a law firm, donated money
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: for this to, to, you know, be able to, um,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: buy the raw materials to just keep making more and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: making more and donating more. And it was really incredible.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: And so when you ask, like looking back on all
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: of it, I'd say it was a really rough time
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: and we worked so hard, like literally around the clock
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: because it was like a life, like we had doctors from,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: we hospitals saying that like people were bringing in vodka,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: like that they had like, they just didn't have anything.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: And that's not high enough proof, you know, to clean stuff,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: but they would use it on their hands. And so,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: you know, being able to provide a service like that
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: and to help people was really, it was remarkable.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: What do you see the next 16 years looking like
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: for y'all?
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I see them as Really? It's now a time
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: of regrouping.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you've been like following like the
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: industry and how things have been going, but one of
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: the largest distributors in the US just went out of business.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Filing chapter 11.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: I used to work for them. None of that, I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say none of it's shocking considering I saw how
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: they were running business from the inside. But once I
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: got out, I was always still like, how are they
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: still in business? And then they weren't. So none of it.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Right. But I mean, this was like one of the
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: largest companies. It's like shocking on some levels because, you know,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: it just affected so many people, so many suppliers, so
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: many people who worked for this company, so many it's
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: so in all of this happening, there's been a huge
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: effect on just the industry at large, where, A lot
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: of suppliers need to find new partners. We're among them.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: We have to find, or we've had to find new
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: partners in about eight states. I mean, it's been a
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: real journey. So, but I think in the end, what's
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: happening right now with the shakeup in the industry is
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: going to make things a lot better for craft brands
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: in the future. And so that next 16 years or
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: 20 years or 30 years or whatever, I think is
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: going to really benefit from this shakeout, which is not over.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: And the results of it are going to be a
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: real realization that the way alcohol has been distributed in
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: the past is is not going to be the way
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: it's distributed in the future. And I think there's going
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: to be a lot of innovation. I think right now
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: you're seeing sort of the changing of the guard where
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: after COVID, the big distributors, the big three went up
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and bought all the mid-tier distributors. And, you know, we
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: see where that is. And that left very next to
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: no one in that sort of mid-tier range of distributors.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: And slowly, slowly, these littler distributors have gotten bigger and bigger,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: and they're going to come into their own and fill
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: that mid-tier that's necessary. And I think that's going to
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: be very exciting for brands that just are not going
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: to work well in a portfolio that has thousands of
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: brands and also a lot of very big brands that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: require a lot of attention of these big distributors. I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: think that you're going to see new models of distribution
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: where you're going to see a lot of beer distributors,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: and you're already seeing that. Beer distributors are going to
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: come into the fold, just like you had wine distributors
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: coming into the fold about 10 years ago. I think
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: that you're also going to see a lot of innovative
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: ways to distribute that haven't existed in the past at all.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I think a great example of that is LibDib and
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: these tech solutions. where brands are able to have a
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: lot more control over the distribution themselves, and work with
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: sort of distributor like vehicles to get their products to market.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: And it's going to be much more, you know, cost
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: beneficial for the suppliers, and it's going to you know,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: provide a new service in the distributor realm that's also
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: going to be exciting for those that are willing to innovate. And,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: you know, that's what I see happening. And I think
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: that that is going to have a huge effect on
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: what things are going to look like going forward. You're
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: also seeing like some states allow more self-distribution. And quite frankly,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: I think that's going to increase over time as well. Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Hopefully that, you know, the self-distribution works for whoever's doing
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: it because again, distribution is a whole nother beast and
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: a whole nother headache when it comes to the, you know,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: putting all that out there. But again, finding the bad distributors,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: not the best thing for you either. Cause again, like
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: you said, you can very easily get lost in the
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: shuffle where you have thousands, but also when they are
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: doing or distributing the big, the huge names that are
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: in the industry because again, Yes, they want more attention,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: but they want more attention because they they bring in
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: more money. But then they also end up like buying
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: up all these brands and then end up just being like, OK,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: in a few years, it didn't work what we thought
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: it was going to. But it's not that it didn't work.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: You just didn't. It wasn't right for you. It wasn't
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: the right fit. So that's why you also saw back
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: in the day, like so many of these big beer
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: companies buy up all these little craft breweries. And then
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: they ended up letting them go because, again, they didn't
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: know what the hell they were doing with them. Not
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: everyone is Bud Light. Not everyone is Coors Light. Not
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: everybody is Jack Daniels. Not everybody is the big ones.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: You need that mid-tier. And obviously, we are far more
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: in a craft world than we ever have been before,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: which also challenges the big guys because they have to then, oh, crap,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: we can't do the same thing we were doing forever.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: We also have to try, why are these people getting
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: more popular? Why are these people doing this, that, and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: the other?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And in addition, something that never existed before
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: is you have this like D to C opportunities. The
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: direct to consumer, some of that is legal directly from
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: the supplier to consumers. But there's a whole set of
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: businesses that have grown, and this is particularly also out
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: of COVID, where they create skins. It's not really the
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: supplier that's doing it. You know, they're kind of like
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: this retailer sort of, it's also like its own thing,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: you know, where they work legally within their own tier,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: but they make it look like you can buy directly from,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: you know, the suppliers and that that also gives suppliers
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: a lot more Intel onto who their consumers are. So there's,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: there's a lot happening. that's innovative and exciting. And, you know,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: I think that there's going to be a lot more
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: of that over time too.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I look forward to seeing what the future holds
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: as well, because the alcohol world is very interesting. And then,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: you know, not to mention also what's happening with the
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: TC world as well. And so all of that very
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: much is very fascinating. And I imagine we're going to
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: start seeing more American agave be more of a thing
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: as well, because as much as we saw single malts
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: become more of an American thing. Now we're probably seeing more,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: you know, not everybody can get stuff from Jalisco. That's just,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: they're going to run out of room. So at some
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: point you're going to start having a more American agave,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: which would be very interesting as well.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. I'm, you know, I'm all for innovation and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: all for, you know, developing things and manufacturing. I mean, honestly,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: manufacturing is so important. It's, it's a lot of what
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: this country was built on and I love manufacturing. I
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: love it that it offers a business model that has
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: so many different kinds of jobs with different kinds of
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: job qualifications that it really is broad. And it just
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: offers a lot to a community by way of jobs.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: And also the trickle down, people shouldn't forget that every
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: time you buy something that's manufactured locally, it's over two
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: and sometimes two and a half dollars back into the
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: local economy. Not just what you're buying itself, but the
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: fact that in supporting that, you're supporting local suppliers. I mean,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: right down, at least for us, to the farms, because
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: we can trace everything back to the actual fields on
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: which the grains were grown. So it's great to support
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: local manufacturing. It's great to you know, have craft brands
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: all over the U.S. so that when you travel, you
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: can try things that are specific to a place and
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: that adds to the adventure.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Well, Sana, I love this so much. If people
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: want to find out more about you, I'll follow you online,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: obviously buy Coval or, you know, support you on any way.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: How can they do so?
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Well, they can come and visit us at the distillery
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: and they can find out more about that at covaldistillery.com.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: And you're welcome to follow us on socials, also Koval Distillery.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: And you can buy our products also off our website
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: through one of these very innovative companies that allows us
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: to do that and get products out to you because
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: it's not really us, it's them. So it makes it
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: legal and fun, but also incredibly convenient. So we hope
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: to see you at the distillery or we hope to
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: be at one of your parties or gatherings in spirit.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: There you go. Thank you so much.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Dr. Sonnet for being on the show. Again,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: if you are in the Chicago area, definitely go check
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: out COBOL. I will be doing the same in June
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: when I am up there, so I can't wait to
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: go visit them in person, but they have not only
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: done so many fantastic things with themselves, but obviously, as
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: you heard, with so many other people starting and just
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: absolutely thriving in the actual spirits world. So I thank
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: them for what they're doing, and we definitely need more
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: mom-and-pop distilling out there, so let's make this happen. So
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: while you're following them on social media, definitely go make
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: sure to follow us on social media. It is BruisersPod,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: that is B-R-E-W-S-E-R-S-P-O-D, on the Instagram, the threads, and the Twitter.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: If you want to send us an email, it is
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: BruisersPod at gmail.com. If you want to follow me directly,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: it is RodyJohn. That is R-O-D-I-E-J-O-N. RodyJohn is the name
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: on the Twitter and on Untappd. In case you want
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: to find out what I'm drinking, maybe we can have
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: a beer together. If you want to follow me on
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: the threads or the Instagram, it is OfficialRodyJohn. So until
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: next time, make sure to enjoy life, drink local, and cheers.