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The Shift to Regenerative Skincare with Dr. Robin Smith of Exoceuticals · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you guys are having a wonderful day.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited about our guest today because we're gonna be diving deep into um just regenerative skincare, biotech skincare, you know, products that are meant to do a lot more for us than our conventional, you know, brands that we're used to.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited to welcome our guest today.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is the founder of a brand that is really leading the way in um, I guess you could say the biotech uh space when it comes to skincare.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So please welcome Dr.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Robin Smith, who's the co-founder of Exoceuticals.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Smith.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you for having me.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited to dive in.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, regenerative medicine is such an interesting field, and I I do research in regenerative medicine.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So watching it come into skincare is so exciting, you know, for me.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm excited to talk to you about the brand, but I'd love to learn more about you and you know, your background and what really got you excited to the point of you wanted to launch your own brand, you wanted to come into the space from the skincare angle.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I came more from the industry that you were in, which is research.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was very excited.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a career of regenerative medicine over 30 years, really looking to how our cells, our stem cells, our immune cells can be used to treat different um diseases, how you can develop therapies.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what people don't really understand is a bone marrow transplant is a stem cell transplant.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's been here.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: The question is how do you regenerate other parts of the body and help repair, restore tissue that gets damaged?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a long career, more focused originally on stem cells, but then expanding to other cells of our immune system and seeing how they can be used to attack different diseases.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the research and understanding that the ways the cells communicate is through the exosomes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't necessarily need the whole stem cell, that um, you know, the way you can send both the ingredients and the and the sort of instructions of what to do, the way the cells go from one to the other is through these exosomes.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we got really excited about this and was um working on therapeutic development and um got with the a contract manufacturer who had really started um putting together a company that was focused on using this more for wound care and aesthetics.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we got excited and bought some of the assets and the data and and just built the brand and built the company.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you have this heavy, strong background in regenerative medicine because I really want to kind of um uh tap your brain a little bit, if you don't mind, you know, for this interview, because it's so important for I think consumers to understand this field of science, you know, especially now that we're bringing into skincare.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um from what I've noticed, it kind of gets lost, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: In the in the marketing and the all the buzziness.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and I really would love for to take a minute and talk just ask you for just clear definitions of things, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about regenerative medicine, what are we focusing on?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what should we be thinking as consumers about this field?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, what we're trying to do is is really repair and restore and to prevent damage from coming down the line.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you do that?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're getting hit with so many different things in our bodies.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think now there are up to 52,000 pathways that govern the way it's signaling, the metabolism, all different parts of the way our bodies work.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So as we get older, we get all of the problems that occur, you know, with aging.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, hormone changes, you know, things with the environment, medication, stress, everything, you know, has an effect on our ability to repair itself.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it gets harder and harder, and our stem cells get exhausted, and it's just not as efficient as it was.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, what can you do to help sort of give the tools to our body to enable it to be able to repair, restore, to see damaged cells and get rid of them, um, you know, things that are very important.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people realize that as our cells divide, you know, there's all kinds of damage that occurs along the way, but the body sees those cells as damaged and gets rid of them before you get cancers.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these are things that are happening all the time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're just become less and less efficient as we age in our ability to fix these things before they become problems.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that really puts um, you know, like concept like senescence like into focus because, you know, I I think senescence, again, you know, it's a it's a wonderful term to understand from the science side, but it also has become a buzzword, you know, unfortunately, when in reality we we should understand the science of it, you know.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's really very interesting and great that you explained it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, historically, skincare has focused on really just correcting problems.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you, you know, why do you believe the future really lies in preventing or really preserving cellular health instead of just correcting the issues?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think um we know more, so we have the ability to do that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting because that's really what consumers want.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's they they sort of moved from like a fix, like plug the holes, you know, to then they were really focused on what the ingredients were and were, you know, whether it was organic and green and really focused on on that piece.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's functional.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: People really want products that will do something that will help maintain and and restore um sort of the youthfulness and the uh longevity of the of what we have so that you're not necessarily running for the facelift.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can preserve the skin, the texture, the skin barrier, reduce um the dark spots and and do it with the products that they're choosing, but finding products that have those ingredients that actually can help not just cover up from the top, but can deep di dig deep into the cellular level and really help restore and repair the tissue.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean that, I mean, to me, honestly, I think anyone who's listening that's uh has a science background, that makes more sense, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it almost like it's more intuitive to think of things like in that way because that's how the body thinks and the body's logic.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and I always like I found myself, and I'm sure you've had these conversations a lot, you know, um, but I find myself saying this a lot with where it's like we need to start thinking about what is the body doing and how can we just like allow that to happen better, you know, like just aid it along kind of thing.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because so many times when you fix one thing, you're affecting another, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like I'm looking at everyone with the GLP1s and how great it is to have support to lose the weight, but then the hair starts falling out, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have a change in the micronutrients, you start getting very crepey skin because you're losing the hydration and and the vitamins, and you're not making the collagen and the lastin as effectively.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's understanding the mechanism of what one thing, how it affects another, and what you can do to help support your body to prevent some of those things from happening.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so, like you said, there's so much buzz out there.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: People, if you don't really take a minute to understand or know who you can go to ask the questions, you get lost.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that really leads me to asking you about because you know, you mentioned like when things change, like uh signaling is a big topic, right?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like any kind of signaling, cellular signaling, understanding cells on that level is huge.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, right now in the industry, we have things like peptides, stem cells, exosomes, growth factors.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have so much.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, people are using these, you know, products and interchangeably.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are the biggest misconceptions about these technologies that you see, you know, whether it's in the media or even like how consumers are understanding them?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think the buzz around exosomes is very exciting.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's tons of it, but what people don't understand is not all exosomes are alike.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Where you source them from matters, how you manufacture them matters.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And almost most importantly, more is not better because that's part of what's happening.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we have 500 billion or trillion.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, let's say you had strep throat and you want to go and get an antibiotic.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: No one says, oh, well, let me take the whole bottle, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: There were studies that were done to understand what the optimal dose is, how many days you need to take it, how often in the day you should take them.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you take too much, you can get toxicity.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: It can, you know, really affect you.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you take too little, of course, you won't get the effect that you're looking for.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you really truly believe that these are bioactive and they're working at a cellular level, more, more, more, more is not going to necessarily be better.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it can be the reverse.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: It could be not good for the skin, it could be so much going in that your your cells don't know how to respond.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my partner always says it's like when you go into a crowded uh room and everyone is talking at the same time, yeah, you don't hear anybody.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the same thing.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just, we all are individuals who want instant gratification.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, okay, more, I'll do it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you jump and say, if I'm gonna bother, I might as well make sure I get it done.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to be smart about these things and careful.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, unfortunately, the you know, the world just wants to sell and they'll make claims and say things that aren't factually based.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what I tell everyone is regardless of the products you'll you choose, just make sure you ask.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Ask is there data?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know how much you should you know you're using?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that it's still stable a year from now?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it it's hard to know that, but it's you have to be careful.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I could not agree more with you.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that is like the best advice ever for anyone listening that's using any kind of products that are like these very I I call them biotech ingredients, but really it's it's anything based in like biology and cell biology.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, absolutely.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of one of the biggest things, and and I don't see anyone doing this, which I don't understand why.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: We try to do it at Skin Anarchy through our education, but just I would love for you to explain this.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the difference between some of these, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could walk us through like what is the difference between a stem cell, some growth factors, and then peptides.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like what should consumers know about, you know, three?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so stem cells have DNA, so they replicate, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: They are truly a cell.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need all new tissue, like a bone marrow, so when someone has cancer, you get chemotherapy, you wipe out their immune system, you need an immune system to fight infection.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you they do a bone marrow transplant, which and those stem cells seed into the bone marrow and make they replicate and make a new immune system.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that um that's a very specific use of um stem cells to make something new.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to signal, I mean, because there are 52,000 pathways, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there are different signals, and peptides can affect a very specific pathway, and that's why people are loving them right now.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you have too much inflammation, um, you would need to reduce oxidative stress.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's interesting is there's over, I think there's 150 now, it was 80, um, peptides that are approved by the FDA's drugs.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, people don't realize that the GLP1 is a peptide, insulin, peptide.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: There are many things that are peptides because they're going in and they're doing something.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: GLP1s will go in and they'll reduce your satiety, your hunger, they'll stop the um sort of they'll slow down, if you will, your metabolism, and they signal to the brain that satiety, you know, you're not that hungry.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so it helps the cells bring in the sugar and utilize it uh as well.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it has a very specific purpose in the pathways that they affect.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: What is difficult with peptides topically is they're they're not lipophilic, so they don't go through the skin well.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't really get to the cellular level.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's important to know what pathway you're trying to affect and making sure that they actually get there and understanding that when they affect one pathway, what else may be happening?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's the key.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And exosomes are a little bit more.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I look at peptides as sort of the quick hit, makes a different quick difference, but you don't get that long-term regenerative repair and the regenerative properties.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: We look at more like a suitcase with lots of ingredients in it as well as instructions.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you so it does more things.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But where it comes from matters.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: It there are different plants, different parts of the body.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how you manufacture them can make a difference.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you do something to the stem cells before the exosomes are taken, you can actually change the cargo, the ingredients, the instructions that are in those exosomes.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they're going to be different, whether it comes from skin.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: We we love it from human stromal cells, which are the skin cells, the adipose stem cells, because skin knows skin.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: The bottom part of our skin is fat.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So exosomes from there knows what skin cells need.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so we do things to optimize their cargo and and deliver them so that at a cellular level, you can improve collagen, elastin production, reduce um uh you know, inflammation.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can help um, because you're reducing inflammation, those cells then don't feel like they're stressed.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: They have the same amount of stress, so they don't make as much melanin, so you don't get dark spots as the skin turns over, because every 28 days your skin turns over.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it really, I mean, it's the longer-term regenerative um tool that really will help you sort of repair, restore, and give the skin that it needs.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it will impact the hair follicle to help stimulate it, stimulate the scalp to hold the hair as it grows, you know, to give the tools that the hair needs to be thicker and have more, you know, densification.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you just have to understand the mechanism, how it works, where they should come from to get that message, that signal that you're looking for.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love uh yeah, I love how you explain this because that's the I think the missing link is that um, I mean, one thing you said really, really stood out is this idea of like, yeah, we're signaling, but then what are what are the downstream signals that are also being turned on?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's something that I mean, I don't think most um people are realizing that, you know, like for example, like GPCRs, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the biggest receptor families that we know about, once you turn them on, then you have about like 15 different pathways that could be turned down downstream.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's something that will, you know, it will impact a lot of different uh, you know, endpoints.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like, I don't know.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think skincare is interesting because yeah, there's a lot of peptides that people are injecting, like the GLP ones, but with skincare, it's like a topical delivery.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think, I don't think consumers realize that even though it's like, you know, uh topical delivery, and you're still getting to the same, like you're still gonna elicit the same kind of responses.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: It might take a little longer, but you're still going to activate certain cells, like keratinocytes, fiberlast will still start doing all of the different things, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just going to be, okay, just collagen production.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's it's never just the case.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've rarely seen it to where it's just like one and done.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's a very interesting concept.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it doesn't come up nearly enough, uh, you know, especially in any kind of consumer product, you know, as education.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and putting the ingredients together.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I love when you take a peptide and the exosome because it helps them travel, it helps them target better and helps them penetrate.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really knowing what the goal or, you know, what the mechanism of action each one is going to do and how putting them together could be, you know, could amplify the effect and and really understanding.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And likewise, for example, with like a copper trait peptide, you don't want to use that with the vitamin C because there's a lot of studies in literature to show that that they counteract each other.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't really do the the science right in the lab and you don't understand what's going on, it you're not going to give as much effect or you know, efficacious product.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really, really important, I think, for both safety and for efficacy that people understand why they're using the ingredients.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: They should be very deliberate about why they're putting those ingredients into the formulas.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my question is, do you think anyone under the age of like 30 needs ingredients like this?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have like mixed opinions about it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can be very helpful.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh because the environment is what's really affecting us too, right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's one thing, you know, when you're perimenopausal, but you know, you could have um, you know, postpartum, right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: You there are different things that affect us.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people were affected by COVID and the vaccines and sun.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the more, for example, like with our exosomes, we did studies in the lab and we showed that if you took a cell and you um put UV light on it, you get inflammation and you could tech test those markers, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: IL6, IL8, tumor necrosis factor.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you then put the exosomes on it, within six hours it goes back to normal.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it, you know, sometimes you go out, you don't think it's sunny, but those rays are really coming through.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not using the proper sunblock or you get exposed, if you could then put something on your skin to help restore um, you know, the inflammation and really help reduce the oxidative stress and make sure that hydration comes in and your barrier is the best it can be, you will preserve your skin for longer.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I that it's it's solid logic.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think especially that's I that's why I asked you because I see a lot of um there are some derms that are on one side and some that are on the other, you know.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like I think with um with that, you're right, context matters, you know, and it really matters in terms of like how much photo damage are you dealing with, you know, what are the other factors?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think especially with, you know, the main thing is they're so readily available now, these ingredients, you know, like everybody has a peptide nowadays in their serum or their formula or their whatever.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think a lot of times it's almost like when niacinamide blew up and everybody started adding niacinamide into every formula.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's similar now, I think, with peptides, you know, where it's like everybody has peptides.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think for me as a consumer, I lean so heavily towards understanding exosomes better because exosome is a space, I think, that's still very protected, you know, in the sense of like, um, we haven't, we haven't blown up the marketing around it yet, you know, to the point of like where it's like the education is being drowned out.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that's really kind of my segue into asking you more about exo exoceuticals and understanding the technology that you guys have employed with your exosome products.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, talk to us about like things like sourcing and you know, all of the the work that goes behind really securing this kind of um biotech ingredient and making it viable in in formulations.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's I mean, it's a great question.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, we look at it that we want to be sure that every bottle has the same amount, the same function, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so ours is really about taking those exosomes, purified population, understanding how they work.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have signatures in them, those instructions and the ingredients.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and, you know, it's not like we filter it and everything is just decided by size.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if it's a because you know, exosomes are small, then therefore it's an exosome.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: We do the work, we, you know, we do the protein sequencing, we do ELISA, we we, you know, really ensure that we know what is in there, what their function is, what they're doing.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then we add back in other ingredients, other growth factors or peptides or proteins, things we want in the formulas, but our exosomes are very specific.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: They have a definition, which means they have a mechanism of action.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really what's important.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've done the studies to show what the right amount is in each product, what they do to that dermo papilla cell, the keratinocyte, or they do to inflammation, so that we know what we're what it is we're trying to achieve, which ones to use, and how many should be used.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we test anything that comes from any human source for everything, as if it's a bone marrow transplant and more.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: We want to ensure there's no infectious disease.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: We want to ensure not just that we know what's in there, but that it's safe.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: We check for prions.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: We even check for the spike protein because a lot of people now are concerned about that and long COVID and what it means to have that spike protein um, you know, within our body.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly people don't want to bring it in if it's not already there.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we really take safety first.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the physician, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You, you, you and I know this, you know, safety first and efficacy is second.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we we are very serious about the data, the studies, and the safety um as well.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really important.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Where do they come from?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of everything is sourced here in the United States, everything is tested and everything's done in a compliant GMP facility.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we really look for stability.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we take our products and we label them, and every month we check them to be sure they're still stable.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so if something, you know, sits for a year, year and a half, two years, that you're still gonna have a potent um product that is safe as well as will give the effect that you purchased it for.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now I I I'm glad that you answered that because I I think that's a big component is the safety component in terms of understanding, you know, which products to really lean towards with exosomes.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really, really glad you highlighted this because for consumers, the first First thing, if you any of you are thinking about using exosomes, is like if a brand can't tell you about the safety protocols it went through to ensure that what is in, you know what I mean?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like the exosomes are actually safe in the sense of like mycoplasma testing and everything, you know, that you know, Dr.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Smith just talked about.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is critical, you know, and that's where a lot of the the misinformation, if you ask me, is coming from is people who are assuming that brands aren't doing safety testing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what's another thing I would love to I personally would love to speak to those critics out there because that's you guys are spreading misinformation without even understanding what's happening behind the lab doors, you know?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like let's stop doing that because I I've not honestly, Dr.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Smith, I I've really, really like seen this a lot where people are just like attacking the exosome space and they're not realizing that there's no reputable scientist or physician who's going to, you know what I mean, like allow that to happen.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not, they're just it doesn't work like that.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my point.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if you filter and there's the DNA fragments are are large, they could replicate, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be sure that you're looking at what's left in there and and doing those testing, that kind of testing.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And not everyone does that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not not everyone does that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: But that's I think the the big thing is that um you guys are so like you're in the science, you know what I mean?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're connected to the science.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not, I worry about the brands that are coming out of like someone was that had a finance background and they decided they want to launch a skincare brand.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now they don't know, you know what I mean?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what should I do to actually make sure this is real and and done right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's different.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, one of the biggest challenges with exosomes is like stability, you're right, and stability and delivery.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what were some of the scientific hurdles um that you had to solve to make sure that you know uh the exosomes are viable uh upon topical application?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've done a lot of work in our engineering process and you know the manufacturing, and then how we formulate them to keep that stability because that lipid violator holds in all those goodies, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And those instructions.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, for for many people's exosomes, they have to be, you know, negative 80 degrees.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So once they're shipped, you have to use them in a certain amount of time.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really excited.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've done a lot of work on this.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, we have a publication that we're working on right now, and we have multiple year data really understanding, you know, sort of what it is that needs to be done and formulated to have that stability at room temperature.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's pretty exciting when you when you understand, right?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lipid bilayer, so you know what you have to put it with is something that's going to preserve that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we look at temperatures and different ingredients we put it with and and things that will help support the um, you know, that outside um membrane that will help help it stay intact.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what is the um the technology exoudals is using, and how does it differ from other brands claiming to use exosomes?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a manufacturing process, it's a proprietary process uh in our manufacturing where we do something to the stem cells before we take the exosomes, both human and plant.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what it does is it modifies the cargo of what what the signal, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is impacting the signal.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And by doing things to the stem cells, you can affect what it is that you're you know asking the cell, the recipient cell, the one that it's going to to do.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually makes sense because if you stress a cell and it realizes it's in trouble, it's going to start making certain factors to protect itself and to repair itself.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do some of these techniques before you actually take the exosomes, you can enhance the um, you know, the cargo.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty exciting.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we've done a lot of work on this for a long time.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it really does have an impact in the results.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we do that.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: We look at um our engineered versus non-engineered, and we look at the differences in the results of when the cargo hits the cell, what what it's having, what the messages and what the cells end up doing as a result.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's really exciting.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that makes me think of like when we first figured out heat shock proteins and stuff, you know, and like finding ways that people are that cells can protect themselves, you know.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really that some of our secrets there.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's very, very cool.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you can do that, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can make those heat shock proteins and then deliver them.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really cool.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it this is, I think this is the most exciting part for me, watching exosomes come to life in the skincare space is because it's letting scientists play in this arena of like, you know, let's see how, you know, crazy we can get with this and make it great, you know.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like I think regenerative medicine is like one of those fields that lets you do that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it lets you explore and it lets you actually bring such deep-rooted tech and you know, understanding into a space like consumer, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I love it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so here for it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when you put some of the peptides with it, right, you can get the short-term, long-term effect with the exosomes.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you really get, you know, it's funny.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have a product and we have different um peptides as well as the exosomes.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them works along that same, you know, pathway is like Botox, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: It it's a neuro, you know, toxic toxin, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: It affects the muscles and but it's slowly.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um someone who I see, you know, very often said, Oh, did you have Botox yesterday?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd been using the product for three weeks.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't, I mean, I've been at Botox, you know, for over a year.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just, it really was cool to see other people noticing differences from these products.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have these functional ingredients that really do something, it's fun, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you just feel fresh and younger, and you know, people notice and they say, wow, you look great.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or and that's what's fun about the products is you it's not like hair is harder, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to wait longer to see effects because of the cycle of hair growth.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: But with skin and the right products, you see results very quickly.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the whole, that's like, I mean, that's a huge, huge point you bring up because I mean, skincare for such a long time went from you did see some results, like when nobody was using anything and we were just like putting on, like, you know, like a really rich night cream, we would wake up and like our skin is super bouncy, it looks different.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we went from that like shock factor almost to like nothing, you know, for so many years.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so now that's where I feel like, okay, now we're like going back, but in a way more sophisticated way.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like this is very, very exciting to see because consumers are gonna, you know, now it's like you can stop complaining that your skincare doesn't work anymore, you know.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's huge.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's and they should demand it, right?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, not everyone wants to run and it's expensive when the plastic surgery and you never really know what the result is gonna be.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can, you know, add ingredients, just like you take vitamins and other people, right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is looking for different ways to stay, you know, younger looking and healthier and more active.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can do that for your skin and your hair, I mean, it's wonderful.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's exciting.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it's such an exciting time.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it truly is.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, I want to ask you because I want to kind of circle back because your work has been so deeply rooted in cell therapy development.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, how did all of your experience and you know, all of the years of like working in the space so cl closely influence the way you really built out the platform, you know, that that you're putting out with um the brand?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Every product has our exosomes in it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: There are signature exosomes.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: We believe in them.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard because people will say, Well, can't you guys make a cleanser?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, well, cleanser doesn't stay on long enough, you know, for the exosomes to absorb.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what, you know, that's sort of our signature.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's our our belief is is in the reparative regenerative um science.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we really, that's really what we believe in.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we're making products that will have that functional capability and that can work with other things that you do.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Skin care is so personal, you know, it, you know, even which products, the order of you use them, when you use them, you know, there's certain things scientifically that make sense.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have those circadian rhythms and even in your skin and and your hair.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So certain things at certain times can have a deeper impact than others, but it's personal.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you don't want people to have to be sort of slaves to it either, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: You want it to be easy and functional and feel good to use.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're very focused, we have no fragrance, it's not our stuff isn't sticky.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: We really try and make it easy.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a good primer, then you can put sunscreen, you can put makeup.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: We we it's kind of no nonsense, but very technical.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean, I think I really like that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that I think that speaks to the the true efficacy and the and the scientific reasoning because when I see, if I see, you know, exosomes in a cleanser, I'm just like, what are we doing?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, I'm just washing them off.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the cycles?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I mean, the timeline, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if you have a number for this.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't really read anything, but how long do you think it takes um to really start seeing like significant uh results from exosome signaling?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh how how long you like on average would somebody have to wait?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could tell you from our our products, we saw statistics like we had a third party do a clinical study, and we saw a statistically significant reduction in crows' feed around the eyes within seven days.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So our studies were more for 28 days, and that's where we saw a reduction in wrinkles, improvement in luminosity and water retention, you know, and all of that stuff.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it truly within a week, you're gonna see results.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's really fun.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Your skin feels smoother and softer, and it just um you know, it depends how much is needed, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you take care of your skin and you've been using products for a long time, it you know, to see a change may take a little bit longer just because you have healthy skin.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're someone who really doesn't hasn't done a lot and hasn't used a lot of sort of good functional products, um, you'll see results very quickly.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I feel I feel like if you're um seeing more signs of aging also.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, this conversation has come up before in you know in our emails where people ask us, like, well, you know, um, should I be using like a copper peptide, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like a like, and it's like, well, copper tripeptide, it comes from wound healing, you know, and so when your your skin is or your wound is screaming for help, that's when it's utilized by the body.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of how human physiology is, is like, you know, when there's a need, it things are utilized.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think with aging, more, you know, photodamaged skin, more aged skin, your skin is looking to regenerate, regenerate, it's looking for help.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're probably gonna see a different timeline of results versus somebody who's not there yet.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's my I mean, that's my thinking.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, that's a very good point.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the more need that is there, of course, you're gonna see definitely more of an impact.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you raise a really good point too.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you look at stem cells from, I mean, sorry, exosomes from plate platelets as opposed to stem cells, right?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those do different things.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Platelets are what runs to your skin when you have a cut or a problem that you need to stop bleeding and quickly be anti-infective.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's not as regenerative, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's more that wound healing.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the same thing.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: That source is gonna have an impact on that long-term regenerative capabilities that you may have more with one than with another.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's very fascinating.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to um, I just want to ask you this like kind of a hypothetical question, but um very curious, you know, if we were to fast forward 10 years from now, um, what role do you think regenerative technologies like exosomes and I mean anything else that we discover, I guess, in the future will play in everyday healthcare and not just skincare, you know, um, because healthcare I think is merging with this like consumer space, you know.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to hear your thoughts.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean 100%.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got really excited about the exosome space when the Nobel Prize was won in 2024, just two years ago, when they determined that the m irna can actually reprogram a cell.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, generally your DNA, as you know, tells your mRNA to make certain proteins and it's sort of they're committed.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that you could actually change that, you could after um afterwards use the m irna to to re-educate and change the epigenicity of the cells, what's being expressed is huge.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think because they um they're hardy and they can, they're tiny and they transport well, you can do a lot with them.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're gonna see a lot more opportunities, both on the diagnostic side but therapeutic side, where you could load them with chemotherapeutic, you could load them with a gene, you can use them as carriers of other properties, whatever is needed to really target very specifically cells to have an impact on diseases.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we see with many diseases, there's a change in your mIRNAs.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some are upregulated, some are downregulated.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could take an exosome and therapeutically target it, you could actually, I mean, the hope will be that you'll be able to come up with therapies for different diseases where you can help modulate what's out of balance in those diseases.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I mean, that's gonna be very exciting to see where we get to.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I agree with you about the Nobel Prize.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like when whenever we discover something in medicine, I'm always just like sitting at the edge of my seat, like, where is this gonna go?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like how are we?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And because every cell of everything, plant, food, you know, human, all tissues have exosomes, they there's a lot of research now on diagnostics.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can you see earlier certain diseases?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's cancer, maybe you can determine that some there's a fibrosis, um, you know, that someone's going to be more susceptible to getting certain diseases.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's going to be a lot of opportunity.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: The exosomes have a lot of information and um it's pretty exciting.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the biomarker space is very, very exciting with exosomes.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm such a fan of what you've created with exoceuticals.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is such a great way to approach regenerative skincare.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say that for our listeners because I know that there's a lot of brands right now, you know, but I think it's very important to put the science first.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So this has been so educational.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and for anyone listening, if you want to check out the brand, if you want to learn more about the brand, make sure you scroll down in our show notes.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to be linking everything right there.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, and let us know if you've already tried the, you know, tried the products.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so wonderful chatting with you, Dr.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Smith.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, 15% of our bodies are skin, right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's but there's skin all over, and there's a lot of opportunity, you know, to help impact our bodies with different products.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll continue to innovate and bring good things.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really excited and thank you for having me.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.