Latest / Modern Gov Matters / How Small-Town Success Conquers Crises and Inspires Big Changes with Chris Shadrock
Transcript
- Sarah Loyd: Welcome to Modern Gov Matters. I'm Sarah Loyd, and this show is all about honest conversations with public sector communicators about what's actually working, what's not, and the stuff that keeps you up at night. Modern Gov Matters is presented by CivAll, powered by Social News Desk. Today I'm talking with Chris Shadrock, Communications Director and Head of Civic Engagement for the city of Boerne, Texas. Chris spent a decade in journalism before moving into government communications, and he's back home in the Hill Country community where he grew up. He's instrumental in keeping residents informed, turning complex government topics into language people can actually understand, and he's got some big plans brewing for Boerne in 2027. Chris, welcome to the show. Chris Shadrock: Glad to be here. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, so you mentioned before we started that after six years, you've finally gotten to a place where you're rarely putting out fires anymore. And most government communicators I talk to are in constant crisis mode. So how did you get there? Chris Shadrock: I think some of it is a combination of the work that we've been doing, but also I think the makeup of our community. We're in a really fortunate spot that we don't have a whole lot of crises. ⁓ our city itself is all of 12 square miles and 24,000 people. And I do think we're kind of right at that right size where we can do some really great work still. And we can still do some of the cool things that you might expect in a bigger city. But we just don't have some of the same day-to-day challenges that, you know, being just outside San Antonio, a city of almost one and a half million people, see every single day. So that has definitely been, I think, the two kind of driving factors of why we are, I think, like I said, in that sweet spot of not having to deal with the day-to-day crises, you know, but I filled that out also. I think two days before one of the worst floods in Boerne's more modern history. we definitely had to do. There we go. Start over. So three, two, one. So I filled out that survey just the day before one of the more historic modern floods here in the city of Boerne. And it has felt a little bit like a crisis, but it's also been even in the moments that I can reflect back on it. You know, obviously nobody had this in our bingo card for 2026 and having to deal with all of these things. So all of that said, we still been able to kind of fit that in. while not completely abandoning our work plans and our goals that we've set out to kind of keep progressing both the city as well as our department. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, and I was gonna mention ⁓ you guys just dealt with ⁓ another generational flood after we just had one in this area, same time last year pretty much. ⁓ so yeah, how did that fit into you know your overall comms plan? Obviously it wasn't part of the plan, but ⁓ how did that fit in kind into kind of the the comms strategy that you guys have laid down for this year? Chris Shadrock: I think part of it, and I would say it isn't even so much this year, but the element of, we always knew that this day was coming, especially growing up out here and anybody who's been in the Texas Hill country long enough. You know, we know we live in flash flood alley. ⁓ I was born and raised in the San Antonio area. We can mark, you know, the flood in 97, 98, 02, 2015, and now 2026 in Boerne. So we know that this is not. a "never going to happen" type of scenario. It's always a matter of when it's going to happen. So for us, that has been one of the key focuses ⁓ specifically within my own work plans. In my role as the director, I've done more of the crisis communications training. I've done the master PIO certification training. So all of those things to know that inevitably this day is going to come in some capacity. And so Being able to just kind of fit that in was just a matter of like, okay, we've got it. We have the bandwidth, we have the capacity. And even though between myself and my two teammates here, Robert and Bria, we had never fully experienced it on this side of our work spectrum. I honestly feel like we crushed it. We did a really great job. Everybody knew what they were gonna do and there was no second guessing it. ⁓ Everybody was just like, let's go forth and conquer. And I feel like we did that. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, yeah, that's great. And it sounds like, you know, laying the groundwork, ⁓ you know, doing all that prep work, getting the certifications, ⁓ just really helped you guys kind of s have a little bit more smooth sailing during, you know, what could have been a very ⁓ you know, destructive and and loss of life type of event. But ⁓ I know you guys ⁓ came came through it okay. ⁓ so it sounds like you guys have a little bit more breathing room and you're actually planning some really ambitious things for 2027. You mentioned A new signature park, the city's largest mobility project in history, and of course Boerne's hundred and seventy-fifth anniversary all in one year. So how are you thinking about telling those stories together and how are you managing that communications load? Chris Shadrock: ⁓ well, the planning has already started now, as you can imagine, you can't have these types of signature events and, you know, the biggest in city history type events, and then just expect that you're going to wake up the week before and plan it. So, ⁓ it's definitely a lot of the pre-planning that goes into it. So, but there's definitely some opportunities for some overlap, especially for both the signature park, as well as celebrating the city's 175th anniversary. ⁓ that ground or not the groundbreaking, the ribbon cutting. Sarah Loyd: Right. Chris Shadrock: is taking place in the spring. And we've already talked about how we're actually going to combine an element of both of those things, because in our 175 years, we've never had a park and this much green space dedicated at one time. being able to kind of, you know, celebrate that moment at such a signature time in our city's history is a really great thing to be able to do. ⁓ Yes, it worked out really well. And ⁓ Sarah Loyd: Yeah, it's amazing timing, right? Chris Shadrock: As for the road project, yeah, like that one is just going to be ⁓ a lot of the lessons that I've learned in the past six years being here. We've done some of the smaller projects and you know, that maybe impact 10 houses. And so from that, being able to talk to maybe some of those residents and those neighbors and or hear things that like, Hey, this worked really well, but maybe this didn't work as well. So as we're getting ready to redo this entire two stretch mile of road, that's the very critical East West junction point for not only our residents, but also our first responders. The sheriff's office is over there off of Adler Road. ⁓ Kendall County EMS uses that to get to the other side of the county very quickly. So we know how important that is and being able to know that we also have the capacity to go out there and really hold the hand of the residents and say, here's what we're going to do. have a lot of those pre-meetings, have a lot of that community input. We're really getting to that point now where we're talking about starting to plan. We need to talk to them even though we're only at like the 60 to 65 % design phase and say, how do y'all want us to handle this really weigh in on the folks that are gonna be impacted every single day because they live next to it. ⁓ But also managing the realities of we are reconstructing a major road while you're living next to it. That's never going to be easy. And so it's never going to be smooth and seamless. So what do we need to do? How do we need to make sure that they understand what's going to happen? So they are also prepared for what is coming. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, and that kind of brings me to my next question. You you mentioned something ⁓ that really stuck with me, and that that's how Boerne is moving away from those formal town halls and toward more smaller, ⁓ more organic in-person gatherings. So can you tell me a little bit about that shift? Chris Shadrock: Yeah, and that has been a, I would think in talking to some other communicators and it's something we all see. And I think what we're finally getting at, and it's kind of, think, starting with the millennial generation. We were the first group of people that know a life before social media. And then now we know the life post social media. And when we all started social media was fun. It's like, ⁓ look at my dinner or look at my kid's birthday party. And now it's. evolved to what it is and it still plays a really important role. But what we also know based off of the research that we're seeing is people have social media fatigue. The younger generation isn't even really latching onto it the way our generation did. So when you start hearing some of this data and the statistics and you start recognizing that, you know, for the last several years it's been, we'll put it on Facebook and people will know. And that there's certainly a good audience that will learn the information. but starting to think about the intentionality of how it is we're reaching people. And especially because, again, the research also tells us the social media algorithm that changes all the time, but it's really designed to elicit a reaction out of us. And that reaction is usually not a positive one. If there's a negative post, if there's a negative thing, let's tackle on, and that's what they're going to elevate. That's what they're going to promote and boost into other people's profiles. What I have found... ⁓ Especially again, Boerne is still a small enough town that I can go down on Main Street. I can have dinner. I'm probably going to run into somebody I know, or if they know what I do, they're going to want to ask me a question. And I'm glad to answer both of those things. So what we're starting to really do, and it started really with this renaming of our department. used to just be communications, but now it's communications and civic engagement. We're really starting to talk about that intentionality of the engagement with our residents, and it's going to look different. Sarah Loyd: Mm-hmm. Chris Shadrock: ⁓ it's going to be things where I'm part of, like I said, a run club that just started and I happen to be out there and I'm very fortunate. I have a dog that does not understand the meaning of personal space and she wants a free pet or a free anything from anybody that will give it to her. Well, that forces the natural introvert in me to have to go talk to somebody. ⁓ I'm so sorry. And then the conversation goes. And what I have found in doing that is. Sarah Loyd: Ha ha ha. Chris Shadrock: You have that natural conversation with people. You're meeting people in real life and just seeing them for the person that's in front of you at that moment. And there's always that natural, what do you do? I'm like, ⁓ I work for the city of Boerne in communications and outreach. And they're like, ⁓ my good leg. And then they just start asking questions and it's very ⁓ and it's, you ⁓ very ⁓ relaxed ⁓ in all of these conversations, nobody's gotten mad. Nobody's gotten upset. Everybody. walks away with, that's some good information, that's good context and better understanding of what's going on. And so to be able to kind of provide that to them, I'm seeing kind of the proof in the pudding, if you will, that this is how folks really want to be met. And it is a lot more intentional, it's a lot more curated. I feel like, know, mahjong is the new thing right now that is taken off. And I wouldn't be surprised if I end up in a mahjong class just saying, I'm with the city, Boerne, I'm going to join you all today, but if you've got any questions, feel free to ask me. And it's going to be in that type of situation and in that setting where it takes not only the pressure, I think, off of our elected officials to always feel like they're only getting the bad emails and the bad outreach from folks who are maybe upset, but it's just getting folks on a normal day when maybe they weren't thinking they were going to learn something new and then they jump in and lean into that opportunity. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, I'm gonna have to invite you to my Mahjong group. ⁓ and I can I can tell you that people will probably be less receptive to your good ideas if you start winning all the time. So you might have to temper your skill level a little bit, ⁓ just from my personal experience. All right, yeah. So how do you how do you kind of transition from those organic moments like the run club or, you know, possibly the the Mahjong League ⁓ into kind of a more formal, but maybe not quite as formal as a town hall sort of format. Chris Shadrock: Trust me, I don't think I'm any good. ⁓ that's a still little TBD. haven't quite gotten to that next step, but my guess would be more of a, I think, opportunity to either meet with city staff, meet with us, ⁓ when, when you're ready, you know, ⁓ cause one of the ways that this also started, even before some of this, where we've had some decent success is also with our HOA outreach. And, ⁓ you know, we started that with. neighborhood discussion meetings that started several years ago, where again, even beyond the legally required, like, hey, we have to notify so many people within so many feet of a proposed rezoning or development. We also were like, well, if you're doing it at this, maybe this intersection, we know that there's a subdivision right behind it. They don't fall into that legally required threshold of being notified, but they're going to see it every day and we know they're going to have questions. So. Why don't we give them an opportunity from the jump to hear about it, hear from the developer, hear what they're talking about, but also be able for them to solicit some of that feedback and say, okay, yes, we like this, no, we don't like that, but here's something that we think would make it better. And that was kind the initial starting point of where I think we've gotten to today. But it's been interesting to see how when you start at that informal setting, and then by the time they're actually doing the legally required public meetings and public hearings and they're giving a presentation and they could say, you know, we met with the neighborhood and the neighbors liked this, they didn't like that, so we made this change. Our boards and commissions and our city council appreciate that because then they've heard that you actually want to be a good neighbor. It's always easy for somebody coming in to say, our plan is to be a great neighbor, we want to work with everybody, but if you can start from the jump and show that you've already put some of the proof in the pudding, if you will. It makes it a lot easier for folks to feel like they know what's going on and feel like they actually had a voice and it was heard. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, that's great. So just to shift gears a little bit, let's let's talk a little bit about what's not working. ⁓ before the show you mentioned ⁓ the website bloat problem. So putting everything online just to say it's available, but it's making the site clunkier, creating ADA compliance issues. So walk me through that tension. What's the actual problem that you're trying to solve there? Chris Shadrock: Yeah, well, I think just like every other municipality government entity, we have these new ADA requirements that we know are coming down the pipe. So I think that's what started this conversation several years ago, knowing that the deadline was coming. It has since been pushed back one year for everybody, but it's inevitable. So you really have to start rethinking what is the goal of your website, you know, and if we really think about a website in terms of the lifespan of a city government, you know, Boerne's 175 years old, we've had a website for maybe 25 of those years. And so it's a new thing still in the totality of the city's life. similar to social media, put it all on social media and it's there. I think the website had that same mindset and ethos for a really long time, but just put it on the website. Well, now with new rules that are coming in, it's, well, that's not ADA compliant, that's not accessible. Sarah Loyd: Yeah. Chris Shadrock: but also just like the load times on our website get slowed down because of that. So in a world where folks want things quicker and faster, that's a problem. So it's kind of solving that one problem. But as we start looking at the things of, you can start now looking at things and saying, okay, in the past five years, this webpage itself has been clicked on four times. Does that, you can have that, does that need to exist in its own standalone webpage? Sarah Loyd: Ha ha. Chris Shadrock: Or can that just be incorporated somewhere else? Do we really need it? what that has sparked the conversation of is, okay, well, if it's not on the website, where does it live and how do you access it? And so that's really the kind of tug of war kind of conversation I know we're having of what does this need to look like? And the example we saw most recently here in Texas, at least, was the city of Austin. They unveiled their new website and I think they said it went from like 15,000 pages to like under 2000, which is astonishing when you hear some of these numbers of like, ⁓ they really did a deep dive audit of all of these, pages. ⁓ obviously I'm under the assumption they had a consultant or they had people on staff that that was their whole job. ⁓ we don't quite have the resources to do that here in Boerne. So it's just us doing it as part of our day to day. Sarah Loyd: Wow. Yeah. Chris Shadrock: But it will be a very interesting to again, see the shift in the evolution of how we view our digital capacity to do things and see what that actually looks like five years from now, because I do think it's going to look really different as we move forward. And it seems weird to me that like, Boerne sometimes feels like we're on the forefront of some of these things and asking the questions or just being like, ⁓ this is what we're going to do. ⁓ but it also seems to track really well. ⁓ as I've told my colleagues and I've told city council, when we do website updates, like we do big website, like it looks leaps and bounds different. is leaps and bounds better. And I think that's what we're at. We're just at this next step and it'll definitely be, there will definitely be some heartburn, I think on all parties involved of what that needs to look like. But I also think that. Because of that, we're going to end up with a better product. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, yeah. And how do you decide what kind of makes the cut? you know, is there is there kind of a threshold of page views or is there, you know, just kind of a an you know, critical mass of information that this needs to be, you know, documented, archived on our website, that kind of thing? Chris Shadrock: Yeah, I definitely think the one of the benchmarks is really going to be is, especially if it's a PDF document type thing, is this ADA compliant? Because if it's not, that's that inherently is a problem. So whether that lives and lives in a different format, is it suddenly is it a PDF application for utilities that we're now going to turn into a online fillable format that you just hit submit? OK, that solves that problem. Sarah Loyd: Mm. Chris Shadrock: ⁓ But yeah, I do think some of those other metrics are going to come in place and it's going to be part, if nobody's clicking on this webpage, why does it need to live? Can this information go somewhere else? Can we consolidate and incorporate things ⁓ and really figure out what that right balance is? understanding that even though you might have like, if we're assuming here's the threshold and the metric that we have, Some of the stuff is going to live up here, but we might also just have to bite the bullet and say, this just has to live in this format because, and find the work around. So it's, that's part of the conversation, but yeah, I definitely think once we get to some of those set numbers, it's going to be up to us to then explain that to our departments and say, okay, here's why we're making the changes we're making. Sarah Loyd: Yeah. So you you told me everything, you know, the everything is not full of friction right now. ⁓ you mentioned that you guys hired a dedicated social media specialist and that's made a big difference. ⁓ how did adding that role change things for you personally and what did it unlock for your departments? Chris Shadrock: Mm-hmm. I think it let us settle into our roles that we're all best at. ⁓ You know, with my background in journalism, I had done it all. I was an MMJ, I was a reporter, I filled and produced, I was a photographer, I did web and social media. So I knew all of the things. So when I came here to the city, I was doing all of the things. And I was fine doing it. I was like, ⁓ I've already done this. So what's been interesting is When we added this person at first, I was like, ⁓ gosh, like it's part, I have to let things go. and you know, you delegate the responsibility to the person who's hired to do that. And, ⁓ that has been, I think the best part of it is for as much as I love doing social media and I like having fun with social media posts and fun videos. I also just recognize like I'm out of time, like unless I plan on working 12 hour days every day. I just don't have the bandwidth to do this anymore. So being able to gift that to somebody else and have them excel at it and do a really great job. then within our team, we've also managing the city's website and our digital outreach. And we have our digital managing editor who does all of that. And then I'm kind of over here doing the civic engagement, community engagement, overseeing a little bit of everything, filling in on days. But, It has really allowed us to, I think, find our strengths and just lean into it. And that ⁓ showed up when we had the flood, you know, in the middle of July. That day, you know, I was in the EOC, my team was back here at City Hall. I was feeding them the information. It was getting published and shared, published and shared, published and shared. And by the end of it, ⁓ my colleague Robert, who's been here for now a little over five years, was just like, I am so glad Bria is here because this is the first time we've had a big large scale event like this and everybody had their part and for us to not have to think about the social media, again, knowing that people are going to be asking questions, looking for more information, we can help get her the information, but she could respond. She could do the updates. It just took such a weight off of us and it was such a sigh of relief of like, Like this is awesome. seeing it like all work out how it is you envision it to work when it's a big, terrible, crazy, busy day, and then it actually happens, you're like, okay, we're doing good. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I full disclosure, I live in San Antonio, not too far from Boerne. And I definitely remember turning on the news and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, there's Chris and you're out there killing it. ⁓ but yeah, it sounds like having that extra extra set of hands on social just freed you up so much. And that that, you know, might might help make a case for other cities who are who are trying to prove to leadership that, hey, we need this person not just for the day to day, but you know, when Things hit the fan, this is gonna make a huge difference for us. Chris Shadrock: For sure, because you know, especially in the smaller towns, it's it everybody's like, is social media a full time job? And the answer is absolutely. For as much change and evolution is coming to social media and even knowing that the audience viewing habits is changing and maybe you're not read, not as many people are joining social media. The reality is for just about probably every city, your biggest bang for your buck is going to be social media. I don't ever see that metric changing. Sarah Loyd: Yes. Chris Shadrock: even if it comes down a little bit and other avenues come up, I think that is still gonna be the big thing. And the last thing you want is on a day like that where, you know, in some cities, maybe you just have one comms person who's trying to do it all, but then maybe you have a police officer or firefighter who's having to fill in and do the social media on that day, or maybe it is your incident commander who is trying to lead an incident, but then update social media and update me like it is. intense stress and to just be able to again have somebody whose whole sole focus is that wagon of information and outreach and have them just do it just takes your pressure off to then just focus on the immediate thing in front of you knowing that that element is just handled and again, it's one of those I Initially struggled with it because I was like I'm so used to it but now that I've been able to again unpack that over time and Again, see it in action. It just reinforces that idea more and more that yes truly understanding social media, understanding the changes that are coming. You know, we all know, like I said, the algorithm changes, it seems every other week, what size image is the right size that they're gonna feed the beast to more people. having somebody who can just think about that and only focus on that is a full-time job. And if you can get the right person who can do it and do it really well, you're gonna see the benefits of it. Sarah Loyd: That's awesome. So ⁓ one more question kind of along those lines. If you were starting your current role over from scratch, what is one thing that you do differently? It could be a process, a priority, a relationship that you'd invest in earlier, just whatever kind of wisdom you've gained. Chris Shadrock: I would, I've gone back and forth, but I think here, because again, our community is small enough, I would really merge the marketing and the communication side of things. And really our marketing is in the visitor center side of things. ⁓ And that's where they do a ton of outreach, obviously trying to get folks to come stay at hotels, visit the Hill Country Mile, do those things. ⁓ And while it's a very different world than what I live in, From the outsider looking in who maybe doesn't understand that marketing and communications, they might look very similar, but once you really delve into it, you can see there are some very strong, finite differences in how it is you're gonna do both of those roles. But in a community like Boerne, where again, we don't have some of the same friction points that other communities have. So I have found that several of the things that we're promoting on the city side are visitor centers also promoting. So I would... maybe merge those a little bit more and find some element of, you know, how can we all live under one umbrella, but again, still focus on our core competencies and our core strengths. ⁓ Because there is a lot of, not a lot, but there's definitely some strong ⁓ duplication again of social media posts or things that we're promoting and outreach because, you know, for our visitor center out there promoting Dickens on Main or, you know, Weinachts Parade during the holidays, or any of our car shows, well, I'm going to tell that to my residents too, because I want you to come downtown and enjoy Boerne. That's why we live here. We love the city. We love these opportunities. We love these events. So there is some of that, again, that fold over. So in a perfect world, if I were building from the ground up, ⁓ I would probably have those living in the same umbrella. ⁓ But again, even currently not. Sarah Loyd: Yeah, absolutely. Chris Shadrock: in that form and function. We've spent the past six years strengthening those relationships and really building them up and tearing down the silos. So, and again, to that end, social media makes it easier. You can now just collaborate with each other. So only one person has to do it at one time. So there is some ways to, we've made it work, but in a perfect world, yeah, that's probably what I would have done. Sarah Loyd: Yeah. Awesome. All right. So you mentioned a little bit about getting residents to come downtown. So I want to talk a little bit in our lightning round about some of the things you love about Boerne. So what's your favorite local spot in Boerne? Chris Shadrock: It's going to be the Cibolo Nature Center. It is a quarter mile from my house and I can get out there and you're just in the middle of nothing. And it's you hear the water flowing, the birds are chirping, the trees are growing, and it's just a piece of serenity right in the heart of the Hill Country. Sarah Loyd: You know, I'm sensing a theme. I've I've talked to several other communicators on the podcast, and they always bring up their local nature center where they can go to just have quiet ⁓ and not hear anybody talk to them. So ⁓ I'm sensing a little bit of a hey, you guys need some quiet time. ⁓ what's the ⁓ most underrated part of your community? Chris Shadrock: Yes. ⁓ the most underrated part of our community. I'm gonna say for me, it's the Curry Trail. We have three trails in town. This one's on the north side. It's our smallest trail and it's on this little island and I love it. I used to live right next to it. And so we... ⁓ ⁓ Let me restart. The most underrated thing that is happening that I think is in Boerne is the Curry Trail. It is on the north side of town. It's our smallest trail. I used to live next to it. ⁓ But just being able to, again, go out there and it's definitely utilized, but they've got a little gym section. They've got the walking trail. It's a little bit of everything you need, ⁓ but I definitely think it's kind of the hidden gem. Sarah Loyd: Love it. And this is always the hardest question for some reason, but ⁓ if your city, if Boerne had a theme song, what would it be? Chris Shadrock: What did I put? I know I put that in there. ⁓ Sarah Loyd: ⁓ you said either meanwhile back at Mama's or no doubt about it. Chris Shadrock: Okay, yes, so if Boerne had a theme song, I definitely think it'd be, meanwhile back at Mama's, I grew up on 90s country, so I was really thinking about this and I had to like ponder, but some version of a 90s country, but that one, if you go back and listen, and I think I'm kind of the living breathing example of that, and I know for all of my classmates that I went to Boerne High School with, ⁓ when you're a kid, you're like, I can't wait to get out of here. Sarah Loyd: Ha ha Chris Shadrock: But then every time you'd come home, you're like, ⁓ this is so great. The nostalgia of it. But then also when you now look at it through the eyes of an adult, I can really understand and respect and appreciate why my parents chose to raise us where they were fortunate to have that opportunity to raise us. ⁓ it's just, think, Boerne just kind of keeps calling you back. It's just, meanwhile, back in Boerne. Meanwhile, it just keeps coming back to there's just something very calm and comforting and kind of nostalgic about being back. Sarah Loyd: I love that. That's beautiful. So, Chris, this has been so such a great conversation. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your super busy schedule to spend some time with me. ⁓ it's been great hearing about how you guys have built a culture where strategy wins over firefighting and how you guys are are rethinking civic engagement and what it actually means for next year. So thank you again for being here. Yeah. Chris Shadrock: Thank Glad to be here. Sarah Loyd: Modern Gov Matters is presented by CivAll, powered by Social News Desk. If you found this episode helpful or interesting, please share it. And for more episodes, visit moderngovmatters.com. I'm Sarah Loyd, and we'll see you in two weeks. ⁓