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How a Battery-Powered Stove Could Electrify America · What's Your Problem?

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's two ways in. There's two ways in, and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I'll let you choose. One way in is pizza and tokyo.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: The other way you got, what's the second one? What's
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the second one?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: The second one is the more uh thinky, the more
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: intellectual way in, which is like electrification is great, but
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: like the wire going into my house isn't big enough
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: basically to get all the electricity into my house that
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I need.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Let's start with pizza.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: show where I talk to people who are trying to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: make technological progress. My guest today is Sam Demico. He's
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of Impulse Labs, which is a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: company that makes induction stoves. Sam's problem is this, how
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: do you build a really good DRIC cook top that
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: people can install without having to rewire their house, and that,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: by the way, could eventually help transform the way electric
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: power works in America. It's an ambitious project, ambitious stove,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and it goes back to this moment when Sam ordered
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a pizza. He was working for Facebook at the time,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: helping to build their Oculus VR headset, and he was
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: at a conference in Tokyo. What neighborhood in Tokyo did
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: you have the pizza?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I think it was. I think it was near Akasaka station.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's like, savoid pizza.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, so tell me about the pizza.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I order my pizza and I get it back in
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: like forty five seconds or like a minute or something insane.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I probably say a different number of different people. But
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: it was fast enough and absolutely fantastic. Then Krispy a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: lot of garlic, super super good, like master of the
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: craft type situation. So I get this, and I'm like,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I want to do this at home, and I don't
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: want to have to have a giant brick oven in
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: my backyard. And so I was like, it would be
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: really sweet if you could do this with electrical electricity.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And how are they doing it? What's going on?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So this is a classic like how normal brick oven
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: pizzas make, and I was like, I want to replicate
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that like an old school brick oven. The amount of
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: infrared power that thing dumps onto the pizza because the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: fire reflects off of a curved bowl above the of
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the pizza. It okay, I'm like, could I just do
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: this with halogen light bulbs? And a lot of power.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Could a pizza oven that makes a pizza of that
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: quality be an electronic device? And I was like, I
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: let's figure this out. And I realized that the power
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: density of like the amount of infrared and the heating
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you need to get that onto the pizza, you were
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: going to need more than a normal one twenty volt plug.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that if you you figured out how
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: much power you would need to make a pizza of
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: them that could get that hot from electricity. Yeah, and
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you realize that you couldn't build a device that you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: could just plug into the wall because it would need
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: too much power. That's the fundamental constraint.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Of bingo bingo exactly. I was like, okay, well, how
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: often are you using this thing? And also how often
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: is it even if you're like cranking out pizzas, like
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be like prepping the next pizza, Like, there's
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: time in between for say a battery to recharge, uh huh,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: in between the various pizza making sessions.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So I went and just looked at this and I
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was like, Okay. I sized the battery pack and I'm like, okay,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: this is getting large. It's not like it's not it's
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: not like laptop battery size. It's more like it's getting
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: into like those little stationary like batteries you use for
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: camping or something like that. It was getting into that.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It was getting into that a lot.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So you realize you're gonna need a lot of battery power.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But what I just want to pause before we get
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: into like how big were the battery, because the idea
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of the battery is I feel like at a certain level,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: it's why I want to talk to you, right Otherwise, yeah,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the stoves, like the battery is a great, big, powerful
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: idea with lots of ramifications. Right, And so the first
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the first, the first thing, the first reason you think
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: of the battery is you realize, oh, you can use
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the regular outlet, just the same outlet that whatever I
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: charge my phone on. You can use for like a
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: super powerful, super hot stove if you add a battery,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: because the battery can just draw power all day when
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the stove is just sitting there, and then when you
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: go to turn on the stove, it can discharge a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: ton of energy all at once, more than you could
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: get out of the outlet. Right, Like that is that's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: upside insight because we don't think of home appliances that way, right.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And it's always and your appliance is always plugged in.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Why would you put a battery in something that is
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: always plugged in? Yeah, which is kind of the like
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: weird yeah right that you have to make yeah.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Right, because right right? Why not just get it enough
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: power whenever you want on it?
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Bingo? And then I was like, Okay, this is a
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: good idea. Let's pressure test what would actually cause a
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: VC to want to invest in this. And I then
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: kind of started fanning out beyond just me being like
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I want my pizza really fast and in high quality.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: And by the way, this pizza in my head is
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: like glistening in its pizza way. I'm like this, this
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is this is like I want this pizza. But you
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: have to think about, hey, is this a platform? Is
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: there a wedge into a broader market? What's the big
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: story here? And so and so what I realized was like,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: let's look at other appliances what the story is. And
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I I then thought through kind of the implications and
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, for the bigger appliances, say the
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: ones that normally plug in with like a two forty
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: evolt plug like the bigger one, or like a dryer,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: like a stovetop and of it like a wall of it,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: or a range product or a hot water heater, and
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: how big is the battery going to be in those cases?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And I kind of did the math and sizing, and
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, it's going to be like north
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: of two kilo what hours at least? So I'll give
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: you the scaling factor on this is like is like
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: you you could very quickly take like four, three or
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: four major appliances because you think of all the big
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: boxes you've got in your house. Times a couple of
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: KILLO on hours batteries, you get about the same amount
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: of storage as a Tesla power wall.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: A Tesla powerwall being the like you can live off
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the grid you put your panels on your roof, and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: a Tesla powerwall. So you're basically saying you can sort
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: of distribute a like live off the grid amount of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: batteries if you could put a battery on the stove
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and the fridge and the hot water heater.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly. Then I looked at what was happening
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: in the stationary storage battery industry and it was like
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: it was all focusing on these centralized battery systems like
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: a battery wall battery wall type product. They weren't addressing
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: all the wiring in your house. And also, like appliances,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: basically they haven't seen a lot of innovation in like
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: fifty years or so. It's like induction stoves are fifty
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: years old for reference, so's it's like, this is an
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: opportunity to generationally advance the appliance industry and then also
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: wedge like let's call it ten plus kill a lot
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: of hours of batteries into every home in America. That
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: is really interesting, right, Like that is a bigger story
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: than your pizza is awesome.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So there's a few balls in the air right now,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: how do you land on starting with an induction stove?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: So we thought of doing maybe tabletop devices first because
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: they'd be easier.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: But I don't know what that means.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Tabletop device would be like you could imagine the pizza
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: oven being an ambitious one, but you could think of
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: like there's other product ideas we've been peddling around. It's
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: like kettle just like that. Yeah, ok, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: you could do something. There's a lot of things that
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: have high peak power demands that are interesting.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: We were like, we got an air fryer and it
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: keeps blowing out the circuit breaker. We can't run the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: air fryer and the microwave at the same time. Give
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: me a battery.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I know, I will know. No announcements on this podcast
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: for product announcements.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, but those feel sort of small ball compared to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: a stovetop right, Like an air fryer is like kind
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: of a luxury weirdo item, whereas everybody has a stove.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, is that part of why you land on
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a stove.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: There's there's two reasons. One is there has not been
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: there's actually a lot of meat on the bone where
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: you could say, like if I make your hot water
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: heater like three times more powerful, you can't make the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: water three times hotter.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Most people wouldn't notice the difference if their water heater.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: So this is this is the key insight is gas
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: stoves are and like the knobs and all that stuff,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the ui ux of the stove is the fuel source.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: And so just to be clear, when you say you
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: mean the user interface user experience, like when you turn
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: on a gas stove, you can see the gas flame.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: That's what you can It's the place in your house
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: where you actually see, like, oh, I am burning fossil
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: fuel in order to cook spaghetti.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Gas stoves are the one situation where if you want
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: to make a fossil fuel free home or like electrify
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the home completely, you would be That is the one
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: mental block and like actual like performance block where people
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: are like, well, I like my gas stove and I
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: can't get rid of it.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Nobody's going to be like I love my gas dryer
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: or I love my gas water.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Who cares? Yeah, yeah, No, that's it. That's a cost thing.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: That's like a that's like a maybe maybe my gas
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: company's expensive, maybe is cheap. You'll pe people.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Don't have an attachment to a gas water heater the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: way they have an attachment to a gas stove. Yes, exactly,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I buy that, But that seems like a reason you
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do and stove as your first one.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: That seems to make it harder, not easier.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: So that's one piece. But then the second piece was
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the battery. Lets us beat the pants off of anything else.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: In the market in terms of performance.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Performance In terms of performance, it.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Goes back to the amazing pizza oven.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, it goes back to the amazing piece of a
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: thing where it's like and so thinking through this was
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: where is there like a wedge where like you have
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: to beat fossil fuels by a resolutely huge amount to
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: displace it. So that's why it has happened. Fully, we
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: can do it. And it's also an installed appliance. So
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: the and this is the piece that I'm going to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: get it next. So the battery can be wired in
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: a way where it can support the grid by charging
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: and discharging into the house, not just like the appliance
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: having a boost from the battery basically.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: So there's sort of two different ideas. There two reasons
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you wanted to do the stove right. So one the
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: first one you said, is because it can you can
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: use the battery to make a better electric stove than
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: exists now and to make a stove that is better
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: than any gas stove that exists now. Yes, and that
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: improvement is meaningful to the typical homeown or the typical
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: human being in a way that a better water heater
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: who cares.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like better water hitter may save you money,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: like say you go to a heat pump water hitter.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, my energy bill is two to three
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: and a half times less, yeah, versus a resistant one. Cool,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: but in our case, it's like your water literally boils
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: ten times faster than your gastove.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Let's we'll get back
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to the wiring thing and the battery and that your
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: battery can then like go back into the grid. Like
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I like all that. It's very interesting. It's a big
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: idea there. I want to talk about it, but I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: want to wait a minute to talk about that. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I want to just talk about induction stoves, yeah, for
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a minute in a few ways. Right, So one, I
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: mean just simply just like kind of basic A basic
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: thing is like there's different kinds of electric stoves. Right,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: there's the kind like I had as a child in
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties with the coil that gets orange, right,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And then there's the kind that you know people had
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: as a child in the whatever two thousands, where it's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a flat piece of glass and the little circle gets
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: red right.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And to be clear, neither of those is an induction stove.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: They are both terrible as well.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: They are terrible, right, So I grew up with that
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and now I have gas, and I'm like, I like
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: gas because you know the other one. You turn it
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: on and it takes forever to get hot, and then
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you turn it off and it's still hot, which, like
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you like pan really bad. Yeah, if you've got a
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: bunch of things on the stove, there's nowhere to put
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: it and gas, Like, you turn it on and you
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: can see it, and you turn it off and like
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: any pan will work on it. You don't need special pans.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: You can turn the knob turn, does it you see
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the flame? Like at a certain non rational level, I'm
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: wary of induction stoves. First of all, tell me why
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I'm wary of induction stoves.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's. I think it's because the
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: entire history of electric stoves has been disappointing. The first
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: generation of with the coils that is like a it's
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: like a heating ailment that conducts into the pan basically,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and the knob controls that. It takes like minutes for
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that to change its temperature. So the next gen is
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: they're like, let's just basically put a light bulb underneath.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: So that's the flat piece of glass with the red
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: circle under it. That is also like confusing and kind
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of slow and bad.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's terrible, it's bad. And then and then
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: induction is this technology that directly heats the pan with
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: magnetic fields. And so this is one where it's like
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: there's nothing glowing red, there's nothing actually getting hot.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Besides stove itself is not getting hot on an induction stone.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And we always get asked this question from people being
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: like putting a battery in a stove, isn't the stove
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: really hot? And I'm like, the stove is not hot,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: the pan is hot. You form a large electric current
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: in the base of the pan. The pan is made
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: of steel, not like copper, so it's kind of poor
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: in terms of electrical conductivity, so it doesn't it impedes
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: the flow of electricity.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And that generates heat to let the electricity flow through it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And that resistance is what creates heat in the pan.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: In the pan, yes, huh.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: What kind of pans work and what kind of pants
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: don't work on an induction.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So you can make all of them work. Most pans work.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: There are two pans that generally have issues unless they
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: have a laminated iron layer in them, and those are
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: like the copper pans and the aluminum pans, and a
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: lot of aluminum pans. Very commonly, they laminate a like
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: a steel disc on the bottom to make induction stoves
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: work these days.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Skill to come on the show, Sam walks me through
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: what I would need to do to install a regular,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: non battery powered induction stove in my house, and that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: explanation points to a really big problem that has to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: be solved if we're going to electrify homes around the country. Also,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: how Sam thinks he can help solve that problem. There
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: is a kind of second order problem with switching stove,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: which is like, even if I decide, okay, I want
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: an induction stove, regular induction stove, not talking about what
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: you're building. I want a stove, I'll get rid of
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: my gas stove. I'll buy an induction stove. For whatever reason,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: my house may not be wired for it. Right, Like,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I'm already willing to pay for the stove, but I
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: can't just buy the stove and get somebody to bring
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it in and plug it in often, right, my house
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: is one hundred years old. I have a gas stove
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and a gas off and what would I have to
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: do if I wanted to get an induction stove.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: So where the where in the country. Where in the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: country is your.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: House of Brooklyn, New York?
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Excellent, Okay, this is I can I can give you
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: an even more micro tailored example. So here's the situation.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm doing a kitchen remodel, I'm doing whatever.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm gonna I want to get a new stove.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I heard this induction thing is awesome, Let's go do it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And then there's like the Then it's basically like you
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: talk to your general contractor and you're like, oh, you
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: need to run a new two hundred and forty volt
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: circuit to your kitchen from your panel. If you if
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you were lucky and you don't live in Brooklyn, this
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: is typically like five hundred bucks. Like it's not a
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: huge deal. So then the next piece is they're then
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: going to go to your panel and they're gonna open
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: it up and they're gonna look at the numbers for
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: what your panel is rated for and your electrical panel
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: for folks, that that's the that's the metal box that
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: has all the circum rates. Like yeah, so you open
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: that up. There's a label on the inside and it
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: says maximum let's say sixty amps, because I'm picking on
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: if you have a Brooklyn apartment or something like that,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: that would be what it is. It'll say sixty amps.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: You then look at the spec sheet for the induction stove,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: it says sixty amps. You would need to use your
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: entire Brooklyn h electrical supply. A new panel is like
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: three grand or something like that, Okay, or four grand.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So this is like more expensive than a lot of
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: induction stoves. Like you buy some great products from SAMs
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: like are LG those are those are the panel upgrade
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and the rewiring is going to be more expensive than
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: the entire stuff stove.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've heard you talk about one more step
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: right which which goes beyond the panel, and it's about
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: like how much power is coming into the house from
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the street. What is that piece of it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Let's say you want to get a two hundred amp panel,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: you may only have one hundred and twenty five amp service,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: which means you're going to have to call up con
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: ed and maybe wait eighteen months. That's what the lead
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: times are for PGN in San Francisco for them to
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: go and upgrade your service from the street.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And do they charge me for that as well?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that can be over ten thousand dollars.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I will say, even having to call con ed, even
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: before you got to the tenth thousand dollars in waiting
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a year, I'm basically out right if I got a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: call cond to get a new stove, like my stove
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: is fine.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Whatever you're you're on the side of big gas and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you love it. So that's the situation and scope of
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: this problem.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: And so that I mean, so whatever the level is, right,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So you've sort of stepped through like.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: There's a somewhat level.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Oh I was okay, I was already sold. What's the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: fourth level?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: If you were the like last person on your street
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to want to do this. And by the way, all
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: of your neighbors are getting EV chargers installed and also
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: doing the service upgrades. Even if they don't care what
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: their stove uses, they're gonna need to get to charge
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: your Tesla. It's the same as a Tesla charger and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: a induction stove are both like forty to sixty apps,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: so it's the same. So that's the order of Magnazue
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: need to think. You may have to if you're the
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: last person, you may have to pay to upgrade the transformer.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And because we stop building stuff in America anymore, there
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: is an insane lead time on transformers.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Now, yeah, I mean at this point it's like whatever,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you gotta get out a rocket ship and go to
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the moon. Right, So there is an idea here that
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is really interesting to me, right, and to you as
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: well obviously, Like there's this basic idea of like, yes,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: we're all going to electrifire homes over some timescale, hopefully
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: faster rather than slower, right, and great, and people are
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: figuring out, you know whatever, nice efficient ways to eat
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: water and dry clothes and cook food with electricity. Great,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: but there's this very basic sort of last mile problem, right,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: last ten feet problem of getting enough electricity just to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the stove from whatever the panel from the street that is.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: That is a real problem.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I think the last ten feet problem is kind of
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: a way to think of like versus last mile, but
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: last ten feet it is like a really great way
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: to think about it.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of fractal.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: It's like first it's like from the from the panel
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: to the stove is one of them, and then like
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: from the panel to the street is another one, and
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and uh.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: From the outlet to the induction coil, because you could
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: make it more powerful.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the last one. Yeah, And so the battery. Sticking
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: a battery on the electrical appliance becomes essentially a hack,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: uh that that allows you to sidestep the problem because
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you don't actually need the electricity all the time. Yes,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: you don't actually need a bigger wire. You just need
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to be able to store the amount of electricity that's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: coming into the house now.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And we've done we cook a lot in
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: the office with our prototypes and units we've gotten back
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: from manufacturer as well, and like what we found is
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: a normal one twenty volt outlet on a stove is
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: more than enough to keep the battery charged while you're cooking,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Which is counterintuitive because it turns out that like when
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: you're using any of these high power draw appliances, even
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: when they're quote unquote working, like the peak and the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: average are so widely disparate that there is a huge
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: opportunity here. And like the big thing is, like all
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of these new things we're doing to our homes for electrification,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: induction stoves, heat pump water heaters, dryers, et cetera. All
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of them are like high peak load. So if you
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: basically put what's called like a peaker power plant inside
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the device when you deploy it, you've addressed that problem
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: as you scale.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So you're saying, like the standard way of solving this
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: problem of like whatever bigger panel, bigger wire coming to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: your house, maybe of whatever a new transformer on your
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: block that is all designed to handle these just rare
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: moments when you have like all the burners going full
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: blast for a minute and it's like, no, we don't
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: actually have to rebuild the world around that. We can
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: just store up power because we're never almost never doing that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And if you just stick a battery on it and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: store up the power, that solves it.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yep, that makes that's exactly it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: There's another thing you can do, right, which is use
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that power that's in the battery, not just for the stove,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: but send it where, send it to my house, send
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: it back to the grid, Like is what is the
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: other move? Once you have a battery on the stove.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: You're not cooking the complete battery capacity, Like we're able
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: to give you like three or four meals worth of
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: battery storage. Huh, you're able to use the excess energy
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: to offset, say you're heating maybe during peak hours. So
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: like typically in New York and in San Francisco, in
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: La many places, there's widely different electricity rates depending on
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: if it's like noon and there's like excess solar on
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the grid or at six pm and everyone just got
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: home and is turning on their induction star.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And this is a huge problem in energy right. In fact,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the utilities build gas fired power plants that exist only
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: for the moments when everybody suddenly turns everything on and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: there's a huge amount of peak demand. Right there are
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: these peaker power plants that are inefficient and expensive, and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: if we could figure out how to smooth demand from
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the utility, like that would be great. Right. It's cheaper
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: for consumers, but it's also way more efficient. And you're saying,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: these batteries on whatever, a bunch of stoves can actually
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like power your house at the moment when you really
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to be pulling power from the grid.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: We also we have inter access. We're connect to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: internet and like that. These are kind of the things
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: like nests does for kind of the like, uh, are
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: you home, how to manage kind of like the heating
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: in your house for like home energy optimization and saving
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: you money. We essentially can use some of the similar
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: signals to then say, hey, you're done cooking for the day,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: we can drain a chunk of the rest of the battery.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Now we're going to get people options. So this is
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: not like done behind your back or whatever. Sure, but
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: the but the idea is like you then can drain
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the rest of the battery to say that with that
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: energy being used for your HVAC or.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: For so I can use the energy in the battery
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: on my stove to power the rest of my house.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gaming PC whatever you want?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, huh and that works? Now? Is that the dream?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Or like, when you start selling stoves later this year,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: will that work?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Are are we're hardware able to do this? There's regulatory
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: compliance steps to go through on that, and we're the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: goal here is to have this enabled on all of
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: our hardware.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about the hardware. I love the dream.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like we gave the dream it's due. Let's
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: talk about the reality. I know you started accepting pre orders, yep.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: When when are like people going to be able to
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: get their stoves for real, like, not as a special trial,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: not as like ceci Q four. Okay, how confident are
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you in that verition? Very great? What do you have
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to figure out between now and then?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I will speak generically because I want to I some
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: of this stuff is more confidential terms of where we
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: are in the process and how this stuff works. But
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: the general way you approach hardware is first you kind
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: of were like, does this idea work like? And so
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: we went and like built prototype stoves that had a
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: battery in them, have tested out the whole system. You
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: basically want to use that to figure out how to
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: scope out what you actually want to design now that
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: you know kind of the details of it. Start with that.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: You then need to land the manufacturing partners that actually
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: scale up, and you need to actually go start doing
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: a sequence of builds with those manufacturing partners with kind
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: of like three or four month cadence where you're increasing
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: the fidelity of the product and increasing the fidelity of
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: the manufacturing process. I mean, there's then Elon quote that
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I think is reasonable here, which is like the factory
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: is the product, but effectively it's like you need to
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: build the machine that builds the machine, and not just
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: figuring out the spec sheet of the thing that you
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: post on the website, but like you have to make
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: sure that you have confidence not just in the like, hey,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: this thing is going to be the best to have ever,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: but like we will also be able to deliver this
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: to you at at scale, reliably, et cetera. And so
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: we are at the point where we've figured out all
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of the details that are kind of like let's call
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: it the major changes to the product. So it's like
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the units we're building are representative of the final thing.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Then you are running through a suite of tests, some
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: of which are like in the lab being like, hey
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: does this thing scratch if I like use the wrong
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: cleaning agent or something. It's like it's like you're doing
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: a matrix of tests.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You're trying to break it.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: You're trying to break it. You're trying to break it.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: You're also doing software development because it's like you have
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: to develop this is a product that's like a connected device.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: It's got a lot of software and firmware. There's a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: lot of like compliance aspects of that too, So there's
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: code stuff. There's what's called like ul.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Like underwriters laboratory, that little thing that's on the tag
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: on every lamp you ever owned, right.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Like, this includes stuff like FCC, Like you have to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: make sure that you pass FCC.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: If you have a ready communications commission because it because
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it's like Wi Fi enabled or something.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: It's not just as Wi Fi. If it has an
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: induction coil, you have to make sure that it's like
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like it's not gonna jam your WiFi by accident.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: It's all of these sort of there's there's a huge
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: host of details here that you have to get right.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And it's not just checking all the boxes. It's also
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: making sure the product is safe, right like like it's
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: like safe safe and so doing all of that is
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: a process into itself.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: And so so you have a lot to do. Fine, Uh,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: how much is it going to cost?
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: We are currently selling units on our website for fifty
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: five This is normal for high end induction stoves. So
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: if you look at if you look at some of
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the top brands in the industry, this is what they
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: sell for similar scope.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: You could get a nice one for half of that.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Certainly you can get a nice one for It's just
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a stove, to be clear, it's not an.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Oven, yes exactly. Now that's the headline price. Now, a
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: big change that the Inflation Reduction Act did has to
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: do with batteries. There's a thirty percent tax credit for
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: battery products.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: And so do you get thirty percent off the whole
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: stove as a result.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: We're working through the specific details, but as it stands now,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I believe so. And then additionally, the IRA takes off
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: eight hundred and forty dollars via rebate if you have
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a gas stove and you want to switch to this.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So that that's going to help you a lot.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: That's the first piece. And then the second piece is
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: because you're putting a battery in your home. Once we
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: kind of have the deployment with battery storage and all
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: this other stuff working, you can save money on your
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: energy bill at the like and depending on where you
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: live and what your rate disparities are and what other
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: program there's other programs for virtual power plants and all
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: this other stuff. There's potentially a like thousands of dollars
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: in like savings you can have on energy costs over
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: the lifetime of the product.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: And will that will that kind of dynamic use of
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the battery be ready I know it'll be technically ready
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to go from the point of view of the stove
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and the battery when you ship, we'll will.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Have we will have a subset of that all ready
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: to go at ship date.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: And will the sort of like utility regulatory whatever side
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: be be ready then? Or is that going to take
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: like forever because it's utility.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: It's not gonna take. It's not gonna take forever. There
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: is a path to making a let's call it the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: eighty twenty version of this work. Yeah, very fast.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: There's a version where you can do a lot of it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah soon. Yeah, okay, And I think that's actually that's
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: something that we're keeping a little close to the chest
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: until we're further along. Can tell on to talk about that.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're gonna ship stoves to people on or
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: before December thirty first, twenty twenty four. What are you
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: going to do next?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: We're evaluating other form factors of like appliances. I mean,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I'll say, I'll give you a freebie as we're definitely
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: gonna be doing an oven and I want to have
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: a pizza mode for that. But like you get the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: idea there.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Right, because I mean, so what you're selling now is
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: just a cook top, right, so the oven would actually
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: be the obvious next one, so that you could sell
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the range, right, the stovetop and oven, Like, what's the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: constraint there?
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: You literally need to have a much bigger logistical footprint
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: as a business.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: What is a happy story to you of how the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: world looks in five years?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think I think the happy story is
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: like if you can go get a substantial fraction of
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: appliance installs, but like if a company can get like
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a million homes with this with and we're able to
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: connect the batteries in a way where they're able to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: do kind of the equivalent of vehicle to home type thing.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: You're in a spot where you have enough storage to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: be kind of a big player on the grid.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: That's the real the real game for you is not
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the stove. It's not bringing the power in. It's sending
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the power back out. That's that's your reeling gig.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: It's both, it's both, it's both and so it's like
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: it's like you make the stove that is the best
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: stove that is also the easiest to install stove. Yeah,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: and then you basically are just deploying more batteries than
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: anyone else on the grid.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Through that hook, there's a universe where you're not just
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a stove company. You impost labs are selling electricity into
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the grid, and the electricity is coming from the stoves
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of your customers who are in somehow participating in this.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're getting some of the revenue, say.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Exactly, or they got a discount on the product, or
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: there's some incentive structure. We are yes, that's I think
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: that's one hundred percent correct.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: We'll be back in a minute with the light ground. Okay,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: let's do the lightning round. What kind of stove views
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: at home?
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is going to change in like soon, But
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: it's a Viking four burner, say it's it's a Viking
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: four burners stove.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Gas gas gas gas stove. It's a great stove. That's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a fancy stove.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: It takes it takes six and a half minutes to
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: boil a liter of water on the same pan. It
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: takes forty seconds for our stove to do what.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: What's like a go to weeknight dinner to cook for you.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I've had less time to do that more recently, but
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I do like doing stir fry stuff.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Is it right that you worked on on Google Glass? Yes,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: so Google Glass was a long time and I was
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: ten years ago. Maybe. Uh it's basically augmented reality glasses.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't work, right, the Google Glass doesn't exist today.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I don't mean it didn't work technically, I mean and
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: it didn't catch on. Uh So I'm curious, what is
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: something you learned from from the failure of Google Less.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I definitely look back fondly to days when Google was
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: like will like to do like extremely ambitious, like stick
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: their neck out things, and I hope that with all
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: this AI stuff happening, they're gonna do that again. And
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: it seems like it might it might be happening, which
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: is kind of cool.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, like like weird, kind of ahead of their
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: time experiment.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Keep Google weird is like my like protest protest statement.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: We Also, because I was on the Camera Harbor team,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: we actually had the opportunity to speck out this one
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: camera module. This is a trivia thing, this one camera
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: module that went into this thing called Project Tango, which
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: is this very future looking remember you know, like ar
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: kit on your phone where you can do like the
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: measure app on your iPhone and stuff that was like
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the first version. The first version of like ar on
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: phones was done at Google. We specked out a special
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: camera for that. That same camera ended up on the
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Ingenuity helicopter on Mars.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: That's fun. So you're saying you worked on a hell
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: you worked on a camera that wound up on a
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: helicopter on Mars. Yes, oh fun?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Okay as an intern.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Great, anything else you want to talk about.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: We covered a huge amount of stuff.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: This is we did good work. We did go work here.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Delight to talk to you. Thank you for your time.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Sam Dimico is the founder and CEO of Impulse Labs.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Today's show was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang. It was
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: edited by Lydia Jean Kott and engineered by Sarah Buguer.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: You can email us at Problem at Pushkin dot FM.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: another episode of What's Your Problem