Latest / Whereabouts Tales | Stories of Belonging and Immigrant Experiences / Seven Lives & Counting: A Journey of Taps #0046

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Seven Lives & Counting: A Journey of Taps #0046 · Whereabouts Tales | Stories of Belonging and Immigrant Experiences

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  Hello everyone and welcome to whereabouts Stills.
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  Today we've got an absolute incredible guest joining us,
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  Wild Strong. If you ever wonder what it's
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  like to live multiple extraordinary life, then this
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  episode is for you. Wells journey is truly
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  cinematic, taking him from the ice extremes of the Antarctic
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  where he was part of the parachute rescue team, to the
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  busting stages of New York as a professional actor.
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  But that's just the beginning. We're also dive into his epic
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  track across the Middle East and his fascinating work with
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  cutting edge technology that connects past legacies without
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  present. Get ready to be inspired as we
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  uncover Wells unique philosophy on adapting, learning and
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  embracing every tap on the shoulder life sets his way.
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  I'm Paul and this is where both steps enjoy.
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  One hours away from Stuttgart, so I'm not that far away.
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  Well, having been born there, I don't remember it.
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  I mean, I remember sitting on the stoop and I, I think I in
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  our first conversation, I was trying to remember her name was
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  her name was Ina and she was a bit of a nanny helping my mom
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  out. My mother had two little girls,
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  twins that were three years old and I was born and then quickly,
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  you know, it wasn't long a year after I was born, a brother was
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  born. You know, we were all born on,
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  on Army bases. And that's kind of I'm sure
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  that's had it and it well, it has had an influence in my life.
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  It started out with saying yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes Sir.
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  No, Sir. You know it has the pluses and
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  the minuses like, well, you don't know.
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  It wasn't like I want that. And you know, I, I don't, there
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  was no, there was respect and, and my father did well.
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  He had purpose, but he died young.
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  He died young and he was, he was an officer in the army.
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  He was a captain, he was a general's aide.
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  He had, he'd gone to a Military Academy as in high school.
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  So he was lined up to do this, but I think Korea beat the heck
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  out of him and he was 13 months in active duty combat and
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  literally going out the door. The Jeep that he was in was hit
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  and his driver was killed. And the combination, I mean,
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  that's just like the icing on the cake.
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  I think it really disturbing, but my father passed on when I
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  was 11 and we had just moved to Vermont and I'm from their five
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  other brothers and sisters. I told you about the twins
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  brother born on my first birthday and then another set of
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  twins. My mother was truly a remarkable
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  individual, but because she and she loved my dad and she never
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  remarried. And so we all had to figure it
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  out. And I'll tell you, Paul, that's
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  that's how I started learning and adapting.
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  And I, she told me clearly, I think you can do this.
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  And I would just believe her and take it on.
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  And she would say, now I can't talk to your brother Kim that
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  way. Well, I would say, well, why
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  can't he mow the lawn? You know, And she said, because
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  you can. He I said, well, he's going to
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  mow at this time. And we lived in the country and
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  there was an area that we wanted to kind of set up not with a
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  lawn, but we had to cut it down to the lawn mower was set on
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  high and there was a high grasses, you know, almost like a
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  field. And my brother goes out there
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  and this is many years ago, this is in the Sixties, 1960s.
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  And so he mows a great, big, huge peace sign in this field,
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  in this field. And that is so Kim, my brother
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  Kim. And he said, what's wrong?
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  I said, Kim, you got to go back and forth.
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  I mean, you're, you're creating art.
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  Yeah, that. OK, that's cool.
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  But let me do it. It was learning that as
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  individuals. And it's a good lesson because
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  we are 6 different kids, an older sister, an older sister
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  that was just amazing at doing things and she helped take care
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  of us, you know, but literally the oldest by minutes because
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  she was a twin. But she did so much to help my
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  mom because that was in her nature.
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  And I was able as a guy, excuse me, great.
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  Isn't it crazy that that back in back in those days as a single
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  mother, you were able to raise six kids And today I, I don't
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  think it's possible anymore. Well, we money didn't exist.
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  And I will say that I grew up hungry.
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  I would go to people's homes, you know, and it was very rural.
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  I said my school had five towns feeding it, and the high school
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  and junior high, the five towns coming in, and my graduating
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  class was 31 people. And it's very rural.
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  And during those times, you know, my mother said at one
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  point she could feed the family for a week on $10.
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  Wow, is that humble? Wild.
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  You know what? Absolutely.
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  That's when bread was $0.10 a loaf.
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  You know, it might have been white bread, but she made bread.
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  I mean, we did a lot of our own cooking and and there was a big.
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  Yeah, that's the way in which you you survive like that, like
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  you having the the reason why I'm asking is I have I'm living
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  in Germany and I I think the the thing which I see quite often,
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  Germany is a social state. And I think we can call it a is
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  a social state because the amount of help that you get from
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  the government when you are in hard situation is really insane.
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  And people are not aware of this.
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  People living in Germany, they are not aware of this.
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  They're complaining that they're not getting dead and dead, but
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  the amount of help that they get from the government, they get
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  rental. Is it extensive?
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  It's a lot. Absolutely, absolutely, so I'm
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  just giving you the example if you are if you are a family and
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  none of the parents have have an income, they have the
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  possibility to request help from the government, which is called
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  hearts fear. It's AI think now.
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  In the meantime, they change the name, it's called Citizens money
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  or something like this. And you get your rent paid, you
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  get your your power, water, TV, phones and stuff like this paid,
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  covered by the government. And besides that you have
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  absolutely. And besides that, you get, you
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  get an income from the, from the government depending on your
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  social situation and you know, the amount of members in your
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  family and so on, which can be up to 1 thousand €1500 only for,
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  for food. And that's why the, that, that
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  makes it quite hard for the people to get the incentive to
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  go back to work. Because if they would go back to
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  work, they will have to pay them by the pay everything by
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  themselves. And there are a lot of cases in
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  which people are 30 years in the law for 30 years long in that
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  help from the state because they are not incentivized to do
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  anything right. Right.
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  Yeah, different times. We went directly into discussion
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  that then I told you in the in the pre discussion that we had
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  that I, I think you're a fantastic human being because
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  you're the amount of events that you had in your life are
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  amazing. And now telling me that you're
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  coming from a from a six kids household which grew up without
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  the father, that makes it even more challenging and even more
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  impressive. Today I get to introduce it to
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  my audience, which makes me happy.
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  The thing which I'm happy about, I would say like this, you
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  jumped out of of of an airplane over the South Pole.
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  You thought survival in Antarctica.
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  Then you walked into an acting school in New York.
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  So, well, Jones, for as some may know you, Ted Jones, I think you
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  live several lives until now. Like, really, several lives.
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  Do we get 7? Is that what they say?
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  I think you have more. I think you have more.
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  I would like to start by asking. Yeah, for sure.
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  I can tell you for sure you have more.
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  I want to start by asking you where are you today located and
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  what how does life look like for you?
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  A day. A day.
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  In your life, sorry, a day in your.
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  Life I see specifically well I I live in Santa Fe, NM been here
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  since O 9. I have a daughter here, the
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  youngest of my, my children here.
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  And we were, we see each other the day, my day start at 4:30 in
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  the morning. And I've, I've adjusted my
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  schedule little bit because by 6 O clock, I either want to be on
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  a mountain or in water. But I practice Wim Hof, the
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  breathing method and I do cold plunges as well.
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  And I have readings that I do. It's a book or something that's
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  feeding whatever it is, I'm involved in it right now.
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  I'm involved with with a new business.
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  And so I'm reading. It's really a, a Wellness book
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  is called The Magic Shop and it's by a neurosurgeon that is
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  passed on. It just passed on.
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  But his name is James R Doty. And this is his story.
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  And it's interesting because he had a very rough childhood.
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  And in many ways I could say, yeah, I had a rough childhood,
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  but it's, I, I learned a lot. So I I do that 6:00, I'm usually
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  out the door going to a trailhead and I do a scramble up
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  a mountain and it's before the sunrise little bit.
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  I get up there just after and right now and get back and I've
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  been doing podcasts in the morning or meeting, doing an
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  initial chat like we had and meeting a new podcaster working.
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  I for the first time, I'm actually get involved in social,
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  I'm involved with LinkedIn. So now I'm building connections.
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  I, you know, and they're coming in.
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  I, I mean just clicking connect, connect, connect.
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  And, and I've been able to, and I know some of these people and
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  some have asked to, to connect with me, you know, a long time
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  ago. But I am doing that.
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  And my milk money is that I restore.
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  I have a client that owns a very gorgeous home and their elderly,
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  he's 95, she's 93. And I take care of your house.
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  They have full care in their house, but we are getting that
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  house ready for a potential sale if one of when one of them
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  passes on. And.
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  But I'm very close to them. And my skill set is I had been a
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  Carpenter and I've been a painter.
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  I did that started with the first time at 11 years old.
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  And my father passed on. Yeah.
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  And my mother said we need a door on the side of the barn
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  and. And she said, I think you can do
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  it. And I said yes, ma'am.
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  And she's turned around. She handed over a coffee can, a
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  tin. You ban coffee tin that and she
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  said, now you straighten these nails and after you're through
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  using them, we'll see about getting more.
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  I said yes. I said yes ma'am turned around.
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  I was going oh, what did I do? But I don't know anything, do
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  you know? But she wants.
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  Kids and and for the kids watching these days, there's no
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  YouTube where you can search how to build the door, a barn door.
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  Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, this is this is Moi.
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  I took the nails. I mean, I started with like,
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  what is this? Someone said this is like a
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  horseshoe nail. I didn't know.
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  And it was bent. You know how hard it is to
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  straighten a horseshoe nail? You basically can't, you know,
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  But I was pounding it into wood and I said, this is a disaster.
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  I realize you got to get a stone and you got to do it on a stone.
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  That's as far as I got. I straightened all the nails.
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  I did build the door. I went around the area and
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  looked at different doors and figured out it has to have
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  across pieces. And I think the door, it wasn't
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  the wood that made it weighty. It was all the nails I put into
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  it because I didn't want it to. I didn't want it to fall apart.
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  I want to make sure, you know, And it took three guys to hang
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  it because it was so, so heavy. So I did it, but you see, it was
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  it was someone that looked at me and my mom, someone important
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  and said, I'd like you to do this.
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  And there's been a moment where it's like, OK, and I'm hearing
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  it. And I just started getting
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  excited really ultimately. And that's, that's been all the
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  way up to miles pulling me in on the new new project that his
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  brainstorm that he that he came up with and this whole team is
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  actually being coming back together, but being pulled it
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  again. And another learning curve is
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  what I'm talking about. Another way to apply what has
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  happened before, but to learn something new.
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  And so my day is filled with like I am involved in, in trying
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  to get an understanding of ChatGPT 5I I, I and, and, and,
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  and understanding without hating it, without having an opinion
• 15:00
  about it, without saying this is going to destroy the world.
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  Like all my friends say. They say I'm going to lose my
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  job, I'm going to lose this. And to me, I'm saying I have
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  1000 interns at my disposal. This is unbelievable.
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  If I need information, I'm getting information.
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  Now how I'm using it. You know, I'm not going to abuse
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  it. And, and I'm using it with our
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  company for the good of humanity.
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  So it's not an app, it's not a game.
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  It's not trying to do something quicker, faster.
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  It's taking, we call it Sol tech.
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  So this is what I'm involved with daily.
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  So Soltek, it's taking humanity and bringing technology together
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  and the company is called Reflecta dot AI with KREFLEKTA
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  dot AI. And it's at this moment, it's
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  about connecting the past on people that have passed on with
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  the present. And the technology is set up in
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  our system to unload, upload the shoebox of pictures that have
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  been in the attic for years about a loved one, an elder,
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  husband, wife, mom, dad, grandparents, aunt, uncle,
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  someone in the family. Hide security protection.
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  You're the editor. You can share with the family.
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  And it's for the family or anyone you want.
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  And you sit down, there's a picture of the individual,
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  there's a voice. You've uploaded their voice.
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  Voice as well. Paul, that's the most amazing
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  thing, you know. Yeah.
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  So this, this new company is, is allowing people and you can go
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  on to the side and have a conversation.
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  Miles has has been a long time friend for 35 years.
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  He's the one that I have done several, we've done several
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  adventures with purpose that we'll talk about in our
• 17:16
  conversation. But this is another one
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  adventure that is going into technology and it is Well.
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  He called me and he told me about he was working on it and
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  he said, hey Wells, would you like to talk with Art?
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  Art is his dad. I said Miles, he passed on seven
• 17:37
  years ago, 8-8 years. When did you pass on?
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  What are you talking about? He said I'm going to send you a
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  link and he sent me the link and I had a conversation with Arthur
• 17:47
  Spencer and he's talking to me. Wells.
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  He knew me as Tad back then. Wah, as Tad and I did, the first
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  thing I asked him was his art. I said art.
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  It's so great to see you, to hear you.
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  How are you? I'm going whoa, I'm asking how
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  he is. He's passed on.
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  But his voice, I mean, it was him to see.
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  And he said, Tad, I'm doing just fine.
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  How are you today? And so we let I said, all right,
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  remember when you when Miles made the Rosemary chicken the
• 18:26
  dinner we had before we left for the Middle East on that 1100
• 18:30
  mile journey. He said, oh, do I ever He said,
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  oh, I, I sat there listening to the two of you and he just goes
• 18:37
  into it. How does he know this?
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  Because he's been the family has uploaded stories and then he it
• 18:47
  and, and Miles has talked about it and he's been asked the same
• 18:49
  questions before And it he comes back and you're, you have a
• 18:55
  nuanced, it's an emotional experience.
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  Crazy, I always thought about that.
• 19:02
  Something like an online obituary would be a good idea,
• 19:05
  but it did exist. A few and they don't have the
• 19:08
  success, but this one. This one is going to be really
• 19:11
  interesting because this is the closest neighbor to taking your
• 19:15
  conscience and moving into a cloud before you passed on.
• 19:18
  It is your legacy and and the Wall Street Journal, I guess it
• 19:25
  was just two weeks ago, 10 days, two weeks ago did an article on,
• 19:30
  on grandparents, on seniors and people with wealth, you know,
• 19:35
  high network value individuals and the money they're spending
• 19:40
  on private memoirs, hiring ghost writers.
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  They're spending $100,000 to have their story so that their
• 19:50
  family understands that where they are today and all the
• 19:56
  success. Didn't.
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  Happen and so it's like it's giving stories and articles and
• 20:06
  just many many things that the family at at their when you're
• 20:10
  ready can. TuneIn.
• 20:14
  I don't want to go into the into the political discussion, but
• 20:18
  I'm pretty sure that if we would have this, have had this
• 20:22
  earlier, we wouldn't have had the migration discussion that we
• 20:26
  have now in a lot of countries. Yeah.
• 20:30
  Because everyone would be aware that every part of us comes from
• 20:36
  a certain type of migration of moving things left and right of
• 20:41
  even though in the same country. It doesn't have to be across
• 20:44
  borders, but it you can be in inside the borders and but I
• 20:49
  think it's impressive. Thank you, thank you.
• 20:52
  So that's my day, you know, and I literally tried to, you know,
• 20:56
  I'm not in a relationship right now.
• 20:58
  I have been and for the last eight months, no, and it's been
• 21:05
  full focus on doing podcasts. I'm over 50 hours of talking
• 21:10
  with podcasters like yourself all over the world.
• 21:14
  And it's been, it's, it's like making friends.
• 21:19
  It, it is. And it's entering at a level
• 21:22
  where we where we're talking about something that's of value.
• 21:26
  And it's not just, hey, you know.
• 21:29
  Yeah, that's why I told you that's why I'm doing this.
• 21:32
  I'm doing this because I I think I'm able to speak with people
• 21:35
  that I would not have had the chance to speak in any other
• 21:39
  situation. Sure.
• 21:43
  Let's go back a bit because we kind of went to the topic into
• 21:46
  the discussions close because you are doing amazing things.
• 21:52
  But I would like to start go a bit at the beginning and ask
• 21:58
  you, how did you end up in Antarctica with the Navy and.
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  It, it was a choice. I mean, it was a choice to join
• 22:06
  the Navy and it was a, a means instead of going in 1973,
• 22:13
  instead of going off to school, which I had no desire to hang
• 22:19
  and hang out in Vermont or go to a, a college or, or I just was,
• 22:24
  I needed to get away. At 15, I've been away for the
• 22:27
  first time on my own with an organization that was called
• 22:31
  Encampment for Citizenship. So I had a sense by going away
• 22:36
  for the summer, taking a bus ride from New York City to Great
• 22:40
  Falls, Mt with people from all over the world, different
• 22:45
  cultures, all kinds of personalities.
• 22:48
  And they're all in high school. I was probably the youngest
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  because I was, I was at just, I was 15, most of them were 1718
• 22:57
  years old. And so I, my eyes were opened
• 23:02
  up. I mean, I had met the, the mayor
• 23:04
  of Tel Aviv's son was a part of this group.
• 23:08
  And but it was from that level to there were people from
• 23:12
  Spanish Harlem, Harlem, Long Island.
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  They were rich, poor, but they were in, they were selected by
• 23:22
  someone in their school because of their thinking.
• 23:25
  They were thought leaders. Do you know?
• 23:27
  So it wasn't economic stuff. And so I had a sense of that.
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  And I came home and I told my mother that I wanted to run away
• 23:38
  after school started and come back from that camp.
• 23:40
  This is leading up to the answer to your story.
• 23:44
  And she said you, what are you talking about?
• 23:48
  I said I, I, I, I can't stay here.
• 23:51
  You know, I have friends now and they don't live here.
• 23:55
  You know, it's like that. That didn't hold an ounce of
• 23:57
  water. She said if you can't handle
• 23:59
  where you are right now, you have no business putting 1 foot
• 24:03
  forward. Do not run away.
• 24:09
  Stop commenting and see the good all around you engage.
• 24:16
  You'll be LED. What to do next?
• 24:19
  Got through high school, graduated, but before that it
• 24:23
  was like, are you going to go to school?
• 24:25
  Am I going to go to school? What am I going to do?
• 24:27
  My mother said why don't you go into the Navy?
• 24:32
  Really the Navy? She said I can see it.
• 24:36
  There's a lot of different programs, but you'll get the GI
• 24:39
  Bill afterwards. You will have made some money.
• 24:43
  You can go to school and then go back as an officer, go to OCS
• 24:49
  military. It was in the family, you know,
• 24:52
  And I said I, I looked into it and it was like in February,
• 24:58
  before I graduated in June. And I have talked to a
• 25:04
  recruiter. And of course afterwards, you
• 25:06
  know, hindsight, yeah. They gave me all the glory
• 25:10
  things that we were possible that didn't happen, you know,
• 25:15
  and but I went in and I realized it doesn't matter what I end up
• 25:20
  doing. What matters is to get out of
• 25:22
  here and to be put into a a new. It's an adventure.
• 25:27
  I have no idea what it's going to be like, but it had all the
• 25:33
  qualities of what adventure is. It was a commitment.
• 25:36
  It was just, it was great. And it just happened that when I
• 25:42
  got my orders, after going through a school, which is where
• 25:45
  you earn your raid, you have to select the actual job you're
• 25:49
  going to do. I was going to work in the
• 25:50
  commanding officer's office in his administration as a Yeoman.
• 25:57
  And when they I got the orders, even the guys that taught the
• 26:02
  class were handing out the orders.
• 26:05
  They were telling orders and they came up to Jones.
• 26:09
  Good God, one guy shows the other guy and they look at each
• 26:14
  other and I'm watching like what do they talk?
• 26:17
  What's what's, what's wrong, what's good, what's what's going
• 26:20
  on? And they just turned it upside
• 26:22
  down on the table and then picked the next to an album to
• 26:25
  Diaz, blah, blah, blah. And I was the last one.
• 26:28
  They picked it back up and they said, Jones, I don't know.
• 26:32
  You either lucked out of you or you didn't.
• 26:35
  We think you lucked out. You're going to be going to
• 26:38
  Christchurch, New Zealand, working for the National Science
• 26:42
  Foundation, flying planes around Antarctica, my mind as I'm
• 26:49
  hearing this. And that's exactly what they
• 26:51
  said, like New Zealand and they said Christchurch, New Zealand's
• 26:55
  one of the most beautiful places in the world and they're one of
• 26:58
  the few places they actually like us right now.
• 27:03
  And so I did and I, I checked into the station, the guys out
• 27:10
  of Point Magoo is where the we were in the United States.
• 27:12
  Point Magoo is again, it was a beautiful place.
• 27:16
  It's just north of Malibu in California.
• 27:19
  It's a very, very beautiful. It's right on the coast.
• 27:22
  And I was at the Enlisted Men's Club having a 2% beer.
• 27:28
  Paul, you know when you're 18 years old at, at the Enlisted
• 27:32
  Men's Club, it was 2% beer. Can you imagine what that tastes
• 27:36
  like? It was water.
• 27:39
  Anyway, a guy was sitting across to me.
• 27:41
  He said, hey, I was like, yeah, you're new.
• 27:46
  I see. I yes, I am.
• 27:48
  And he said, all right, OK what's your name back?
• 27:52
  I told him. I said, what's that on your
• 27:54
  chest? He said parachute wings.
• 28:00
  Parachute wings for what? I'm a member of the Antarctic
• 28:05
  Parachuting Rescue Team. You interested?
• 28:13
  My, it was like, are you? I didn't say I said yes.
• 28:17
  I didn't say, are you kidding? I just said, yeah.
• 28:20
  Six months later, I had to apply.
• 28:22
  And I, I, I did. And I went through the training
• 28:25
  and the first time I was on the ice, Antarctica, I was the 7475
• 28:31
  season. I stepped off as a member of the
• 28:32
  Antarctic Peri rescue team. And it was incredible.
• 28:37
  I learned medical treatment. Most of all, I learned how to
• 28:40
  free fall skydive. We were precision skydiving
• 28:44
  group because we'd have to jump above glaciers in different
• 28:50
  areas, parts of the polar plateau and around Antarctica
• 28:56
  and land on the spot. We weren't doing low altitude
• 29:00
  military jobs. We were jumping with civilian
• 29:03
  equipment and it was incredible. And the training and the
• 29:09
  learning about capacity, learning skills, it wasn't about
• 29:16
  the military. The the discipline and the
• 29:22
  requirements required complete focus.
• 29:27
  And I loved it. Loved it.
• 29:30
  How was the take me to through through a mission?
• 29:35
  So you you're jumping like you said, you're jumping on a fixed
• 29:37
  spot. And then how, how are you coming
• 29:39
  out of there? Well, we never jumped in.
• 29:46
  We always we ended up landing. But if we had to jump in, we
• 29:51
  would land on the spot and then there would be their means of
• 29:54
  creating a a runway or coming in with J Doe and different things.
• 30:01
  The mishaps were happening or the the plane, we call them
• 30:06
  mishaps. To say a plane crash leads one
• 30:10
  to think of something just devastating.
• 30:12
  They're mishaps, most of them happened on take off where the
• 30:17
  Sestrugi in the field and where they decided to land.
• 30:21
  And there's a choice where you land, but there's a, there's a
• 30:24
  formation called Sestrugi, which is in the Arctic and the
• 30:28
  Antarctic where the wind creates these waves of snow, hard patch
• 30:34
  snow. And if you plow through that
• 30:38
  stuff in order to get in the air or to land.
• 30:41
  And in doing that, sometimes the planes tip wing, you know, tips,
• 30:47
  different things can happen. The nose skis, the skis on the
• 30:50
  plane, something can happen. Brackets break.
• 30:53
  The since the beginning of, of this squadron flying planes in
• 30:58
  Antarctica, I think it was in 1957 when they started, it was
• 31:04
  averaging one point something planes per year they'd had.
• 31:09
  And so way back the, the power rescue team, I don't really
• 31:13
  recall the year that it actually started, but in the late 60s,
• 31:19
  you know, early mid 60s. How do you think that was the as
• 31:24
  a? Let me rephrase the question.
• 31:29
  What do you think that tested you, the moth as a as a foot
• 31:33
  job? Was it the weather?
• 31:35
  Was it the rescue condition? Was it the general condition?
• 31:39
  Was it the military? What do you think that tested
• 31:42
  you and got you strength? The weather was always #1 which
• 31:55
  includes the wind. Now we're not dealing with
• 31:57
  darkness because while we're there, the sun is up.
• 32:01
  Yeah. So it's it's weather and it's
• 32:05
  location. Much of what we did was
• 32:07
  training, constantly training, walking across crevasse fields
• 32:12
  roped up. You know, you want the first
• 32:15
  time roped up. And when someone disappears in
• 32:17
  front of you, you belay them because they've fallen into a
• 32:20
  crevasse. We don't want to fall in
• 32:22
  crevasses, but we learn to to fall in crevasses to protect
• 32:28
  each other, but more importantly, how to get people
• 32:30
  out. So there are rescues like that,
• 32:32
  local stuff, helping people out of situations, sprained ankles,
• 32:37
  wrists, that sort of thing. How it was also exciting.
• 32:45
  It was also exciting, I mean to to jump out of AC130 and and
• 32:50
  jump the the tail ramp is like this, the planes going this way,
• 32:54
  the tail ramp is like this and the planes there.
• 32:56
  And when that tail ramp opens, that space between, you know, my
• 33:00
  head while I'm showing you now is like a movie screen and it's
• 33:05
  open to the to the, the air, the earth.
• 33:09
  And we're flying 125 miles an hour and jumping into that and
• 33:14
  learning how to do that and control yours.
• 33:17
  First we do it with control. Then we play around and we do
• 33:20
  whatever we want to do because we know how to find stability.
• 33:24
  But it was just exhilarating. It's the first time that I
• 33:30
  realized I really have my life in my hands.
• 33:35
  It's in my control and, and to to be responsible for that, I
• 33:41
  had to know what to do if this happens or that happens or that
• 33:44
  happens or what you do when you get on to get on the ground if
• 33:47
  that happens, if that happens. And my mind and my I just loved
• 33:52
  that, the simplicity of that and the complete focus of that.
• 33:59
  But the weather, the weather was the known one that the, the, the
• 34:04
  thing which was clear was always the same, was always, like you
• 34:07
  said, always cold. Was there an unknown part which
• 34:14
  was always different? Yeah, we didn't have weather
• 34:17
  reports like we have now. We didn't know, you know,
• 34:22
  everybody can play as well. You know, they say it's going to
• 34:25
  be sunny today and it's not, it's raining.
• 34:27
  You go, Oh yeah, that's too bad. You know, big deal in our
• 34:30
  situation, when you see on one side of the glacier and you're
• 34:35
  climbing up and and you're just or behind you, you see that it's
• 34:39
  just there's sunshine, it's beautiful.
• 34:42
  It's blue sky and you get to the top and suddenly you're in
• 34:45
  trouble. You're there's a white out
• 34:47
  that's just coming at you and 60 mile an hour winds that you
• 34:54
  didn't have going up and it's not knowing these things and
• 35:00
  being prepared to handle it. You knew it's going to be cold,
• 35:03
  but you didn't knew anything else.
• 35:05
  Well, you prepare for the cold and you make sure that you don't
• 35:08
  overheat because it's 0 humidity there.
• 35:12
  So the the moisture that you get is from perspiration.
• 35:17
  And so there's constantly dealing with layers.
• 35:20
  You know, we didn't have, we had RIP stop nylon, silk and wool.
• 35:28
  We didn't have Gore Tex, we didn't have lightweight, you
• 35:35
  know, wind, wind and, and, and rainwater impermeable clothing.
• 35:45
  No, we didn't have that, but we weren't worried about rain and
• 35:49
  the snow, the snow really, it doesn't just snow like you think
• 35:53
  of Christmas time and the snow is pretty and it lands and it
• 35:56
  collects and oh, it blows in. And so whenever there's snow,
• 36:01
  there's wind and the wind is, can be just, I mean it when we
• 36:07
  jumped out of the plane on on February 19th, 19, January 19th,
• 36:15
  1977, it was -59° -59°. Now that we were, we were
• 36:27
  jumping into an Airstream of 125 mph.
• 36:31
  It wasn't that temperature on the ground and we had a free
• 36:34
  fall, but it was still jumping into that.
• 36:38
  My outer shell on my right hand flew off.
• 36:41
  It wasn't tied in. It was just AI don't I don't
• 36:45
  know how I missed it. I had plastic on my over my
• 36:50
  hands and I had a Duckstein, German Duckstein wool glove, a
• 36:56
  MIT that had just a thumb and you know, and was thick.
• 37:01
  It's like 3/8 of an inch thick. And so I felt my hand freeze and
• 37:08
  thaw within 60 seconds. Just the cold, the snap on.
• 37:17
  But it didn't. I, I, I was free falling.
• 37:20
  It flew off. I knew it was off.
• 37:22
  I checked to make sure I could get my thumb underneath my RIP
• 37:26
  cord back Then RIP cords were in front, not behind in the front.
• 37:31
  And you pull a cord out of its housing and then you shoot a
• 37:35
  pilot shoe comes out that pulls everything out.
• 37:37
  And then you have a canopy. And so, yeah, cold, very cold,
• 37:45
  being stuck in a tent, testing the equipment on the Polar
• 37:48
  Plateau and being stuck for two days in and out of whiteout and
• 37:53
  no one could come in and pull us out of there because we were in
• 37:57
  the middle of nowhere. It was a helicopter that we're
• 37:59
  going to do that. Actually, we weren't on the
• 38:01
  Polar Plateau. Around the Ferrari Glacier was a
• 38:03
  different place, but we've been on the Polar Plateau.
• 38:07
  Our equipment, as I was saying, we didn't have Gore Tex or, you
• 38:12
  know, pack light, none of this stuff.
• 38:15
  Think Edmund Hillary, think, think everybody had beards.
• 38:21
  I, I couldn't grow a beard, but beards and it was just layers
• 38:26
  down and triple layer boots, you know, and, and things were the,
• 38:36
  the new plastic boots of Dolomite was just coming in with
• 38:39
  mountaineering boots that had an outer plastic shell and you had
• 38:43
  at least one layer, maybe 2 of to, to put your feet in to that
• 38:49
  We were wearing Do you know? So equipment came from a new
• 38:56
  company called MSR, which is mountain safety research.
• 38:59
  You know, maybe you're, you or your listeners would know what
• 39:02
  that is. It's a big company.
• 39:03
  It's still alive. North Face had just started
• 39:07
  making some things. And so we were getting, we put
• 39:12
  it out there that we're the the rescue team in Antarctica will
• 39:16
  test your equipment. And you know, at the South Pole
• 39:19
  we're in different areas of energy and people just lit up.
• 39:22
  So we got these wonderful boxes of tents and sleeping bags and
• 39:28
  stoves, different, different new equipment to test.
• 39:33
  And so that's what we supplied the aircraft with on board the
• 39:38
  aircraft. So that if there was a mishap
• 39:40
  that there were things on board that would be used as well as
• 39:44
  the aircraft itself in protecting yourself from the
• 39:47
  elements and setting up triage as needed for how.
• 39:53
  Long were you there? Basically October.
• 39:57
  The earliest I went in while I was there on October 7th of
• 40:02
  1976, and I left February just before Valentine's Day, February
• 40:09
  12th, something like that. So that's October, November,
• 40:13
  December, January and February. It was.
• 40:15
  It was four months, basically. By the time when I came in, I
• 40:20
  was it's called wind fly, winter fly in.
• 40:24
  There were two planes that landed.
• 40:25
  I was on the second plane, 1 landed before us and we were
• 40:30
  bringing in mail and fresh vegetables for the people that.
• 40:37
  Wintered over. And they've been eight months
• 40:41
  there, you know, in darkness and.
• 40:45
  With no. Mail Today, GPS communications.
• 40:51
  If I wanted to talk with my family in Vermont, I'd have to
• 40:56
  put my name on the list. Outside the ham shack was the
• 41:00
  ham radio and with a big tower. And there was a guy on a ham
• 41:06
  radio that was saying this is so and so.
• 41:09
  And it was a Southern guy, you know, trying to connect with
• 41:13
  anyone near Vermont, USA. And they would can, I mean,
• 41:18
  would they would patch in from North Carolina or California and
• 41:23
  then call from there to my home so I could say hello to my mom,
• 41:28
  let her know I was OK. And you would say hi, mom over
• 41:34
  and you. And then you hear her say and
• 41:38
  she go, oh, Tad, it's so nice to hear you.
• 41:41
  How are you? How are you, honey?
• 41:44
  Mom, you got to. Say over, over.
• 41:48
  You know, and I mean guys were finding out that their baby was
• 41:52
  born that things, you know, someone so many things were
• 41:56
  happening at home and it was all through this very, you know,
• 42:02
  antique process of communication.
• 42:05
  Nothing like what we have now. Absolutely, Absolutely so.
• 42:10
  You came back from Antarctica and then from the sub zero
• 42:14
  training. You thought after that, how can
• 42:17
  I go on with this? My military career, I go to
• 42:20
  acting well. I wanted to be.
• 42:23
  A smoke jumper. Bag that was reasoned through my
• 42:27
  climbing partner Paul was and I said you know we're going to
• 42:31
  we'll we'll be smoke jumpers in the Pacific Northwest you know
• 42:35
  fight fires jump in fight fires. We just thought yeah.
• 42:39
  And I looked into it and it was you had to have two years on the
• 42:43
  ground. Paul was going to had six more
• 42:47
  months in the Navy before he would be available.
• 42:50
  And I just said, I've got it. I'm going to look at something
• 42:52
  else. Paul, you know, good luck.
• 42:55
  I'm, I'm, I'm on to something else.
• 42:57
  I went shrimping with my brother in the Gulf of Mexico.
• 43:00
  And it was a wild ride because there was a hurricane where all
• 43:05
  the shrimp boats in the Gulf out of Freeport, TX hit the town.
• 43:11
  It was the gnarliest group of men I'd ever been around.
• 43:17
  They were all packing knives, tequila, and a wallet full of
• 43:21
  cash. Because they've unloaded their
• 43:24
  shrimp, you know, and everything's done in cash and
• 43:28
  everybody's protecting their cash and everybody's getting
• 43:32
  really high on tequila as well. And it was, there were some
• 43:37
  things that happened where I just realized I needed to
• 43:39
  gather. It was my brother Kim, who was a
• 43:41
  rig man on a boat. He said, come on down, I haven't
• 43:44
  seen you in a while. Come on down.
• 43:45
  You know, let me show you around and, you know, maybe you'll get
• 43:48
  into this. I wasn't my thing.
• 43:51
  So I was in Texas. I was on the phone with my
• 43:53
  mother and I said, you know, I I want to live in Santa Barbara
• 43:57
  and I'm thinking about going to school, but I don't know for
• 44:01
  sure. I know I want English or
• 44:03
  humanities. And she said, why don't you take
• 44:06
  acting? Said really, she said.
• 44:10
  Well, you were. Wonderful.
• 44:11
  In that play, I said, Mother, I didn't have any lines really.
• 44:19
  You're the best. You're the best, she said.
• 44:23
  No, your presence, your you, you, you're just naturally,
• 44:27
  well, you did, she said. You did that community show, you
• 44:30
  had some lines in that one. But when I'm talking about, I
• 44:32
  said, I know the Shakespearean one, she said, you know, you
• 44:37
  like to do research. You, you, you.
• 44:40
  I just see that if you really want to get a sense of the world
• 44:44
  and in the way your imagination works, do Shakespeare, be a
• 44:48
  king, be a Prince, be be a good guy, a bad guy.
• 44:53
  It allows you the opportunity to explore all these things.
• 44:56
  And then you could be a dentist. What but the but the range of
• 45:02
  those? Two, she said.
• 45:07
  She said, well, look at Doctor Black and I remember my dentist,
• 45:11
  Doctor Black was in, he was in the show that I was in, that I
• 45:14
  did have lines. And she said he's a dentist, he
• 45:19
  makes money and he's an actor. Said, I don't know mom about
• 45:25
  dentist, but I like the idea. You know, English is a major in
• 45:29
  theater, you know, whatever. So I did and I loved it.
• 45:34
  And once I realized I wasn't going to go to LA because I
• 45:38
  wanted to know more about the craft, I went to the, to New
• 45:41
  York City, to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts.
• 45:44
  I applied, I got in and the guys the, the president said, you
• 45:49
  know, when he was placing me in class, he said I ended up doing
• 45:54
  theater actually in Santa Barbara.
• 45:56
  I was doing repertory theatre in the summertime.
• 46:00
  Once I got into acting and, and I really liked it and I was raw,
• 46:06
  but I, I was seeing and people director took me under his wing
• 46:10
  and he put me in some big shows as the lead.
• 46:13
  And it was just very exciting to the point where I got pressed in
• 46:17
  Santa Barbara. And when my mother was visiting
• 46:21
  in the grocery store, 3 people came up and said, oh, oh, Tad, I
• 46:28
  just want to say I saw your show.
• 46:30
  My mother's standing there and she just beamed, you know, it
• 46:33
  was so wonderful. It was just, it's really nice to
• 46:36
  see you. You know, it's like then she was
• 46:38
  able to say, I told you. So I told you that.
• 46:42
  Well, I went to New York. And and things, I went to the
• 46:45
  Academy and I had a very rough time at the Academy.
• 46:48
  I had an instructor and I would do a scene and she's would look
• 46:53
  at me and she would just sit there and stare at me and and
• 46:56
  the the point was after you do a scene, the instructor would tell
• 46:59
  you and she did it with everybody and she just looked at
• 47:01
  me and she said no, I say. No.
• 47:05
  What do you mean? Well, how did you feel?
• 47:08
  I said, well, I, I, I Well, what's yes?
• 47:13
  What if it's no? What's yes?
• 47:17
  She said. You've got to stop thinking too
• 47:20
  much. You're, you've got it all
• 47:22
  planned out what you're going to do.
• 47:24
  You're not in the moment. And I'm starting to remind my
• 47:27
  remember my mother, you're not in the moment, you're not living
• 47:30
  and not accepting where you are. It's you we want to.
• 47:36
  See you in the circumstances we don't want to see you playing
• 47:40
  someone else in the circumstances we want to see
• 47:42
  you. What would you do under these
• 47:45
  circumstances? OK, so it's Shakespeare and and
• 47:49
  you're you're giving a speech to get the men to fight.
• 47:55
  What if it was you? And it.
• 47:58
  Just it just. Finally hit me and I found that
• 48:05
  spot where what she was talking about, and then I just fell in
• 48:11
  love with acting. I mean, I really got it.
• 48:14
  And when I got out, I didn't get an agent like other people in my
• 48:21
  class did. And I was very concerned because
• 48:24
  the little scene that I did for agents was just a mess.
• 48:29
  And I don't know why, but it was just, it wasn't.
• 48:31
  It's just as a mess. But the director of that scene
• 48:35
  that I've never worked with before and I thought she was
• 48:38
  nutty, called me and she said, I have a friend, director that's
• 48:44
  in New York trying to cast a show, his Saint Louis show of
• 48:50
  tribute. And he's got Ken Howard is
• 48:54
  playing the lead. And they want, they're looking
• 48:57
  for someone to play his son. He's been here for, he's going
• 49:00
  to be here for three days. He's been here for two.
• 49:02
  He has not found anyone. I think you're really right for
• 49:05
  it. She said, do you know who I
• 49:06
  mean? I said sure, OP and OP was Ron
• 49:10
  Howard, not Ken Howard. Ken Howard was 6 foot 9.
• 49:14
  He ended up being the SAG president in our country, you
• 49:17
  know, for a number of years. But I mean, that was a faux pas.
• 49:22
  She screamed, said no anyway. I I really.
• 49:27
  Had to weasel my. Way, even though she set it up
• 49:30
  because I wasn't equity, I wasn't a professional.
• 49:34
  And when you go to these calls, they're very protective.
• 49:36
  They don't let anyone in unless they have an appointment.
• 49:40
  And then I had to explain that I got this through this woman that
• 49:43
  knows the director and I ended up getting the part.
• 49:50
  And so I it was, it was like a blessing and and the reviews in
• 49:58
  Saint Louis were, were incredible and it was about the
• 50:01
  father son relationship and it was just one of those things
• 50:05
  that worked. And I came back to New York and
• 50:08
  I got an agent, a commercial. Agent, but they also sent.
• 50:12
  Me out for for other things and I, they told me, you know, well
• 50:20
  we're going to. Send you out on commercials and
• 50:21
  you're. Very white bred.
• 50:23
  I said white bred. What's that mean?
• 50:25
  I mean, come on, that sounds awful.
• 50:28
  Well, you're tall, you're blonde, you're blue, and you're
• 50:30
  white. Back then, you were allowed to
• 50:34
  say it. Yes, I but but I was.
• 50:37
  Going like, whoa, you know, And so anyway, they said you, you, I
• 50:45
  was really into acting and it, and it's fit.
• 50:47
  And they said it will take between 20 auditions or more.
• 50:51
  And by the time you do about 40 between callbacks, you maybe
• 50:54
  you'll get the commercials that don't have your hopes up high
• 50:58
  about this. But we, we think you might be
• 50:59
  good at this. Well, I booked my fourth
• 51:02
  commercial and it was for Kodak. And it just went on from there.
• 51:07
  And it allowed me to do theater until I couldn't do theater and
• 51:11
  support my family because I wasn't making money.
• 51:15
  I was making money as commercials.
• 51:16
  But that was that was changing. And so there was another shift.
• 51:20
  But I had a wonderful run off Broadway with the repertory
• 51:25
  company and acting with people that were Academy Award winners,
• 51:32
  you know, but you're you're not making money from.
• 51:34
  From acting like not non non commercial on the no the
• 51:38
  commercials I. Would, but it would be, of
• 51:39
  course, the commercials. Yeah, and and.
• 51:41
  And and I did. I always had a beer commercial
• 51:44
  running, you know, I did Molson's beer and I love doing
• 51:49
  it. I played a Dutch skier, you
• 51:51
  know, it was so much fun. I mean, you know, it was so much
• 51:56
  fun. I don't want to bring the joke.
• 51:58
  I have to tell a joke of those. Tell me, do you want to tell a
• 52:02
  joke? Maybe.
• 52:02
  It's time for a joke. There is a there was a story.
• 52:08
  I don't know. If you know in Europe, there.
• 52:09
  Was a there were some contests which were called surviving.
• 52:14
  No, I'm, I'm famous. Get Me Out of here.
• 52:17
  I don't know if you had it in the US as well, but they had it
• 52:20
  as a change, so they took some famous.
• 52:21
  People to them in the jungle. But the stories about the two
• 52:24
  guys presenting this because they they had them happening in
• 52:28
  South Africa and the presenters are two actors.
• 52:32
  So they're I'm talking about the Romanian show now are two actors
• 52:35
  from from Romania. 1 is a white fat. 1. 60 tall guy 16165 and
• 52:44
  the other one is a darken colour because he has some he has some
• 52:49
  African heritage even though he's born in Romania.
• 52:52
  His father was from one of the African countries.
• 52:55
  I don't remember them anymore and he's like 2 meters tall and
• 52:58
  so on. And every time when they were in
• 53:00
  South Africa, everyone was talking respectful with the fat
• 53:03
  guy who was small and they was disrespecting him and he said
• 53:07
  why is this happening? He said he looks like the Dutch
• 53:10
  guys that that came to own us a few decades ago.
• 53:16
  She. Well.
• 53:19
  Yeah, that's so. I'm sorry for this.
• 53:22
  No, but it's the it's. The thinking and you know that
• 53:27
  it we don't maybe it is just not as prevalent now for sure.
• 53:32
  You know, politically incorrect was one phrase.
• 53:37
  But no, I've I learned it very quick about by being in the
• 53:42
  service and being with different cultures.
• 53:45
  You know, what I loved was and that I didn't know anything
• 53:49
  about was Native Americans. And there was a guy that was a
• 53:52
  Cherokee and this guy was, I mean, he was an Indian.
• 53:56
  You know, all he needed was a great big headdress with all the
• 53:59
  feathers and he'd be the chief and, and he played that, played
• 54:03
  that up, but he was serious as well, very serious.
• 54:07
  And but seeing the different people, but for acting, they
• 54:11
  slaught you, you are slotted in a spot.
• 54:15
  And at the time I was white bred, but that was a good thing
• 54:20
  to me. It sounded disgusting.
• 54:22
  It it sounded disgusting to me. And but it, it wasn't because I
• 54:27
  was white bread that I got the amount of work that I did.
• 54:30
  It's because of what I did. It's what I learned with Janice
• 54:34
  Powell when she said no. And she's ready to challenge.
• 54:39
  Me, she said. No, I don't.
• 54:40
  Believe that scene. I didn't believe you.
• 54:43
  What's yes when you stop thinking so much and planning
• 54:49
  all these cute little moves and doing this and and just be
• 54:54
  yourself. I mean the actors that we.
• 54:57
  Really love. To watch are those that play
• 55:01
  themselves. We see them, they're just.
• 55:05
  So. We go, we want to see it because
• 55:08
  so and so's in it because they're going to do their twist
• 55:12
  on that character. Absolutely.
• 55:15
  What? Was how long was your your
• 55:18
  acting career? Well, it was from 1980 to.
• 55:24
  I would say 1995. I was 15 years.
• 55:30
  Good run. I would say a good run.
• 55:32
  It was a good run and the choice was.
• 55:34
  Take the lessons learned from acting and put it in.
• 55:39
  I mean, it, it, it, it had to do with being asked to to direct a
• 55:43
  show and the show was a show that was going to be at Lincoln
• 55:49
  Center in Avery Fisher Hall. So that it was big, high profile
• 55:53
  and the people involved. Now I was asked because the, the
• 55:59
  director that had been directing the show, it's an annual show,
• 56:03
  jazz show. The man that had been directing
• 56:06
  it, I had worked with and we knew these people that created
• 56:11
  the show and had seen the show and they knew that I knew the
• 56:17
  director and they wanted to know my thought in particular and my
• 56:23
  wife as well. But my thought about the
• 56:26
  director and the show and, and it was very clear that there
• 56:31
  seemed to be a level missing. He did so much with the show,
• 56:36
  but there was there was a spirituality and a connection
• 56:40
  that that wasn't in the show. And I just saw things and they
• 56:45
  said would you direct it? And the show he did shows he.
• 56:52
  Did we're not at Lincoln Center. They're in small places,
• 56:56
  smaller, not as as prestigious. And so my wife and I took it on
• 57:03
  and after we did the show and it was, it was wonderful success.
• 57:06
  And we had leading jazz people from Dave Brubeck, Stanley
• 57:10
  Turrentine, Paquito de Rivera, Tito Puente, Candido, the Conga
• 57:16
  Master, many people, people that were playing Dizzy with Dizzy
• 57:20
  Gillespie. There were the protege of Dizzy
• 57:23
  Gillespie. I mean people there were
• 57:27
  connected in jazz to the greats. Lionel Hampton was in the show
• 57:32
  and so it was wonderful and it and it's very different
• 57:37
  directing jazz musicians than it is directing actors.
• 57:42
  But I've been around a lot of productions, mostly live theater
• 57:46
  stuff. And.
• 57:48
  And so we thought, hey, why don't we start a?
• 57:53
  Company A production company. And so we came up with the name.
• 57:57
  We called it Onahil AUNAHIL. And the same people that created
• 58:04
  the Jazz Nativity knew an organization in Washington, DC
• 58:08
  that wanted to do a show at the Kennedy Center, and they were
• 58:12
  looking for director producers to do that.
• 58:17
  And we were tapped to do that. And the show host was James Earl
• 58:23
  Jones, Dionne Warwick. Dionne Warwick saying that's
• 58:28
  what friends are for. It was loaded.
• 58:32
  I mean, we put it together with our client and it was such a
• 58:37
  success and we ended up just doing productions for that
• 58:44
  client in Washington, DC to the point that I was asked to be the
• 58:51
  Chief Operating officer of that foundation.
• 58:55
  And so it went from, you know, Antarctic.
• 59:00
  Pair rescue to acting. To production work, then to
• 59:04
  running a high profile foundation in Washington, DC,
• 59:09
  which meant moving from New York to DC.
• 59:14
  And so these were all taps, Paul taps on the shoulder.
• 59:21
  And I liken it to to what I I heard about in in in high.
• 59:27
  School. It was a.
• 59:27
  Churchill quote And it's something along with the things
• 59:30
  that my mother has said about adapting, staying where you are
• 59:37
  until you're LED and not, you know, getting the full
• 59:41
  experience of where you are, which means you can't be in a
• 59:45
  negative mode. You have to be in a positive
• 59:47
  mode. This is the quote that is that
• 59:50
  next to what my mother has said to each that comes in their
• 59:53
  lifetime. A special moment when their
• 59:56
  figuratively tapped on the shoulder and offered the chance
• 1:00:01
  to do a very special thing unique to them and fitting to
• 1:00:06
  their talents. What a tragedy of that moment
• 1:00:11
  finds them unprepared or unqualified for that which could
• 1:00:17
  have been their finest hour. And it's like.
• 1:00:23
  That's what's happened, I realized.
• 1:00:26
  I mean more now. How many?
• 1:00:31
  Taps I've received. And it wasn't because I pounded
• 1:00:35
  the pavement trying to figure out, OK, how's my resume?
• 1:00:39
  Get it to the best. And, you know, this foundation,
• 1:00:42
  get it over here. And and it's always been someone
• 1:00:46
  saying, I think you can do it, right from the time I was 11
• 1:00:49
  years old. My mother's saying I think you
• 1:00:50
  can do build a door on the side of the of the barn.
• 1:00:57
  We. It's funny how the cultural
• 1:00:59
  differences. Are because we have something
• 1:01:00
  like this in in Romanian culture, it's called the train
• 1:01:03
  is only coming to your station once and if you don't hop in
• 1:01:07
  then it it's going without you and it's basically somehow the
• 1:01:11
  beautiful one. That's beautiful and that is
• 1:01:15
  much more succinct and but that is what has happened.
• 1:01:19
  And so when we were asked, you know, to to direct at the
• 1:01:25
  Kennedy Center from my. End I I I.
• 1:01:31
  Will say I LED as director and producer and my wife, we did
• 1:01:36
  things together, but you know, I was the voice and and I had we
• 1:01:42
  both shared responsibility, but I was in a different.
• 1:01:45
  My experiences were different than my wife's, but she
• 1:01:50
  understood how to create a storyline for the event.
• 1:01:56
  She understood how to take pieces and where to place them
• 1:02:00
  and how to use this among many other talents.
• 1:02:05
  Mine was directing and and production.
• 1:02:11
  It's interesting that they it's, it's something.
• 1:02:13
  Which is going a bit against of what you were saying today.
• 1:02:17
  They talk about or at least in the motivational world is this
• 1:02:22
  trend of not going with the flow.
• 1:02:25
  And I have somehow the feeling it's against what you're saying
• 1:02:27
  because like you said, someone come to you, someone came to you
• 1:02:30
  and said, you know, I think you can do that, but that's a bit.
• 1:02:34
  Did you feel that that's a bit going with the flows and you
• 1:02:37
  didn't really took the decisions, the decision were
• 1:02:40
  took for you. Yes, it was flow.
• 1:02:44
  It was absolutely a flow. And I mean, there's a book
• 1:02:47
  called flow and I had read that book many years ago and, and
• 1:02:53
  what I realized was just to find, it's almost like
• 1:02:57
  underneath sub subconsciously, that sense of flow is what I'm
• 1:03:02
  always looking for, right? And to find it where I'm engaged
• 1:03:09
  in something where time has no place.
• 1:03:13
  It is just, it's, it's in flow. And I found that in production
• 1:03:17
  work, I found that the the requirements for me was complete
• 1:03:24
  focus on whatever was in front of me and being being clear that
• 1:03:32
  I would be led to what I needed to do next.
• 1:03:37
  And there was. There's a level of.
• 1:03:38
  Instinct with this. But there's, I mean, I really
• 1:03:43
  ultimately ended up with a mastermind group of designers
• 1:03:50
  like designers, set designers, projectionist, choreographers,
• 1:03:57
  composers, stage management, film media people that were all
• 1:04:08
  a part of this. Circle to make.
• 1:04:09
  That event happen. And in order to do that, it was.
• 1:04:17
  Not to sit there being afraid and to admit mistakes, but and
• 1:04:24
  to it's really not mistake, it's just lessons.
• 1:04:27
  Learn, learn, learn, be open, learn.
• 1:04:31
  Listen, you know for how long? For how long have you done that
• 1:04:39
  from the? Time I was in the Navy.
• 1:04:42
  Listen. Totally.
• 1:04:46
  I I was. I was listening to world class
• 1:04:51
  Mountaineers from New Zealand giving us lessons on how they
• 1:04:57
  call it Z lines, how to set up lines to haul sleds up and down
• 1:05:01
  with someone in it listening. To stories about other.
• 1:05:07
  People and and learning that way, you know, learning about
• 1:05:14
  complex situations and how one got out of it, how they got in
• 1:05:19
  it, how they found themselves in it.
• 1:05:21
  Some of it was oversight, you know, not not being alert and
• 1:05:28
  and then being trained right up to when we did the Middle East
• 1:05:31
  trek hiring a man that he was a private secretary to the.
• 1:05:38
  Queen of England. In the care of Prince Harry and
• 1:05:41
  Prince Charles. He was an SAS major, retired so
• 1:05:48
  he spent 20 plus years as SAS. Even that he became an SAS
• 1:05:54
  member of the Irish Guard and giving us instruction on how to
• 1:06:02
  manage travel through Saudi Arabia by foot and car in 2006
• 1:06:11
  when there's a war going on and then getting going through
• 1:06:14
  Jordan and going through Syria and then going into Israel.
• 1:06:20
  And so it the flow has been an I, I know when I'm out of flow
• 1:06:30
  and it doesn't feel good. I mean, it feels like I'm
• 1:06:36
  wasting my time. It's much easier if you can.
• 1:06:40
  Find the right. Flow to go with the flow.
• 1:06:42
  Than to build your own flow because but when you say the
• 1:06:47
  flow, you're talking about the. Mass of people, maybe of
• 1:06:50
  thought. I don't go with that.
• 1:06:52
  No, no, no, it's not. What was my flow?
• 1:06:54
  No, no, no, I don't mean. I I mean with the chances.
• 1:06:57
  Because if you, if you, if you have a chance that, like you
• 1:07:00
  said, the step on the shoulders, that's what I mean by flow.
• 1:07:05
  I think it's harder for sure, it's harder to build it.
• 1:07:08
  But you, you, you feel much better when you, when you are in
• 1:07:11
  the middle of it, because you saw the chance you took it.
• 1:07:14
  You didn't, you didn't said no, I'm, I'm afraid I'm not able to
• 1:07:17
  do this. No, no, no, I want to be safe.
• 1:07:20
  I want to know what I'm doing. No, let's do it.
• 1:07:22
  What can go wrong? And that's what I mean.
• 1:07:24
  And of course, of course, but, and a lot does a lot, you know.
• 1:07:30
  Look, but there is no there is no perfect moment to start.
• 1:07:33
  Something there is no perfect moment, that perfect moment was
• 1:07:36
  yesterday and there is no way in which doing it doing something
• 1:07:41
  really good if you don't suck at it first.
• 1:07:44
  This is my perspective at least. This isn't what how I learned
• 1:07:47
  stuff. I think it's better to have the
• 1:07:50
  80% solution. I'm, I'm younger than you and
• 1:07:53
  I'm, I'm sorry that I'm getting the conclusions out and I should
• 1:07:57
  ask you the conclusion, but I think that.
• 1:08:01
  There is no way in which. You can.
• 1:08:03
  You can be good at something big before sucking at it.
• 1:08:06
  That's it. That's the only chance that you
• 1:08:08
  have it's allowed. It's allowed and I I really as
• 1:08:17
  far as performance goes. I learned enough by the time we
• 1:08:24
  were doing. Production about how to talk
• 1:08:27
  with people, all people and I mean even.
• 1:08:31
  Talking to. You know, African.
• 1:08:36
  American Girls. That are so excited to be in Los
• 1:08:41
  Angeles from Washington DC We're in the the Beverly Hilton Hotel
• 1:08:47
  where they hold the Golden Globes.
• 1:08:51
  They're just all pumped up and they're in a choir and to
• 1:08:58
  corrupt to to get their attention was just unbelievable.
• 1:09:05
  And I finally said ladies, ladies, one moment.
• 1:09:10
  Let me let me let me have your attention here.
• 1:09:13
  We're holding off for your director to arrive.
• 1:09:17
  Choir director to arrive. You need to stop commenting on
• 1:09:24
  everything and enjoy. Where you.
• 1:09:29
  Are focus on this rehearsal with these, you know, 4-5 songs, 345
• 1:09:38
  songs and then you can go. Out into this California.
• 1:09:43
  Sunshine And you hear the girls go.
• 1:09:45
  Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm going to do it.
• 1:09:47
  I'm going to. I'd say OK, OK, OK.
• 1:09:49
  Of course you're excited. But right now, let's pull it in
• 1:09:54
  because we've got a job to do. We are here to blow the socks
• 1:09:59
  off of these people. And you can do it.
• 1:10:03
  And then they're coming. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:06
  But while, you know, what we need to do is really focus and
• 1:10:12
  hear yourselves, focus and enjoy being focused because you got a
• 1:10:18
  whole lot of play time after this.
• 1:10:20
  You're in a great place. But right now, let's do
• 1:10:24
  ourselves, you know, a service, get through this and enjoy it,
• 1:10:28
  but enjoy it. Just comments.
• 1:10:32
  Look, you guys could be picking on each other all night long,
• 1:10:34
  but do it at night. Not here, you know, just things
• 1:10:39
  like that and being able to knowing, you know, and
• 1:10:43
  listening. You know, when little Little
• 1:10:46
  Richard's road manager, when he showed up, he showed up late.
• 1:10:51
  He was at night. It was in Washington, DC Little
• 1:10:54
  Richard's not getting out of his limousine Rd. manager.
• 1:10:57
  He, he wants to know what's going on, you know, and the road
• 1:11:01
  manager comes in. The guy is just absolutely
• 1:11:04
  exhausted. His his responsibilities are so
• 1:11:08
  high. Said, hey, hey, man, you know,
• 1:11:11
  Mark, how you doing? Look, he knows I'm producer
• 1:11:16
  director. So he has an edge.
• 1:11:18
  He goes, look, we want this, we want this and we're going, OK,
• 1:11:20
  OK. You know, would you like some
• 1:11:23
  coffee? Would you like some sandwiches?
• 1:11:25
  Come here, open the see. We've got it set up to just
• 1:11:30
  chill out. Little Richard's room is all
• 1:11:34
  ready. It's all set.
• 1:11:36
  His suite is ready. Get him in there.
• 1:11:38
  Come back down with your crew, whoever you want, who's ever
• 1:11:41
  hungry, and let's sit down and just not talk, you know, do
• 1:11:47
  whatever you want to do. Take a break.
• 1:11:50
  We got the show. Tomorrow night, we're good.
• 1:11:53
  We're. Going to do it.
• 1:11:54
  And the guy's like, whoa, thanks, man.
• 1:12:00
  Yeah, we will. I like you.
• 1:12:04
  I like you and denied that peace, giving that peace that
• 1:12:09
  they. Needed it's and I find that
• 1:12:12
  everywhere and. People get pumped up and it's
• 1:12:15
  not my pump, it's theirs. It's not my just you just
• 1:12:20
  managed to find it. It's theirs, but they don't know
• 1:12:22
  where they put it for sure. That's the problem.
• 1:12:26
  What was? What was after?
• 1:12:28
  After directing and producing and before the Middle East trek?
• 1:12:35
  Let's see. I did a television show with
• 1:12:38
  with Miles. Miles had an idea to do it's
• 1:12:41
  it's like Shark Tank, but but it's called Money Hunt and we
• 1:12:45
  were on PBS. Ultimately.
• 1:12:47
  We're on PBS for three years, three seasons on PBS.
• 1:12:51
  It was a business show where you bring in an entrepreneur.
• 1:12:56
  Our team received business plans for people and we were going to
• 1:13:01
  select individuals, 2 individuals to be on our show to
• 1:13:05
  present their business plan and what the amount of money they're
• 1:13:09
  seeking for that business. And so there were two guys that
• 1:13:15
  were the Co host of the show and then we had a.
• 1:13:19
  Guest Mentor. On the show, the payoff was one
• 1:13:23
  of those teams, one of those businesses would receive one
• 1:13:28
  hour of time with the mentor. There was the guest mentor on
• 1:13:33
  the show, and back then that was huge because the mentors we had,
• 1:13:39
  we had Jerry Yang from Yahoo, who started Yahoo.
• 1:13:44
  He was on our first show. We had a guy Kawasaki, we had
• 1:13:49
  Candace Carpenter, we had the guy that created Sobey
• 1:13:52
  Beverages. We just many different known
• 1:13:56
  entrepreneurs that it achieved great success and so.
• 1:14:04
  We. Did the show together.
• 1:14:05
  I was one of the directors on the show and a coach on the
• 1:14:08
  show, and then Miles and I took the show on the road.
• 1:14:11
  We took Money Hunt live to Adventure Capital conferences,
• 1:14:16
  so I was doing that. The whole point of doing the
• 1:14:21
  show was to invest money into businesses, and on paper.
• 1:14:27
  On paper we looked very, very well down the road of becoming
• 1:14:34
  very wealthy and the dot on paper on, I say on paper, you
• 1:14:43
  know, we had, you know, a shares in very fine companies and on
• 1:14:50
  paperandthenthe.com blew up. That's when I took the job.
• 1:14:56
  As the chief operating. After that the chief operating
• 1:14:59
  officer in Washington DC. So I left these, you know, I
• 1:15:03
  went down to DC from New York area and ran the company that I
• 1:15:07
  had been doing with my wife events for.
• 1:15:11
  And so when I came back after four years, Miles and I had a
• 1:15:16
  chat and my the chairman of the board of this foundation was
• 1:15:25
  Alma Powell, Colin Powell's, who became the secretary, correct.
• 1:15:30
  And the president, I'm saying this because it's giving you
• 1:15:35
  wouldn't know they're the ladies names, you know, Alma.
• 1:15:38
  But the president of the organization's husband was the
• 1:15:43
  former secretary of education and the first drug czar.
• 1:15:47
  They made a movie about him, about what he did.
• 1:15:50
  Michael Douglas played in that movie.
• 1:15:52
  I forgot what it's called, but it's about the Colombian cartel
• 1:15:56
  and I know it. I know I don't.
• 1:16:00
  Remember the name myself, but I know it, I'm sorry.
• 1:16:03
  So anyway, so. And the board members of this
• 1:16:09
  foundation were cabinet secretaries, wives and the
• 1:16:18
  treasurer. Of it was the.
• 1:16:22
  The man that handled the Marriott Corporation, the
• 1:16:27
  family's personal wealth, finances.
• 1:16:32
  And so I was the chief operating officer and the IT was the first
• 1:16:37
  time where I really, you know, the sense of flow.
• 1:16:42
  I was nervous, a little bit nervous about about this one and
• 1:16:49
  but it was the president of of the foundation.
• 1:16:54
  She insisted the tap on the shoulder.
• 1:16:57
  You are the I want no one else. I'm not.
• 1:17:01
  I have interviewed. You have done all of these
• 1:17:04
  incredible events for us in DC. They've gone off without a
• 1:17:08
  hitch. That's been wonderful.
• 1:17:10
  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:17:12
  You can run this foundation right?
• 1:17:16
  It's like. You do the production company.
• 1:17:19
  And I'm going, sure. Yeah.
• 1:17:25
  And she offered me a nice salary and a nice vacation that I never
• 1:17:29
  took because there was never any time to take a vacation because
• 1:17:32
  it was 24/7. When you work in DC and you work
• 1:17:38
  close to people that are close to the president, there is
• 1:17:42
  something there is, you know, fires to put out.
• 1:17:47
  There's all kinds of things that are going on.
• 1:17:50
  Even though you're doing this, running this organization for
• 1:17:53
  children, it's the people involved, you know, so and so it
• 1:17:58
  gets into trouble over here and you got to do damage control or
• 1:18:01
  this or that. And that's just, it was a real
• 1:18:05
  ride. And after the first year, I
• 1:18:07
  thought I was dying on the vine. And I told her so.
• 1:18:10
  And she said, you're not. No.
• 1:18:16
  And she convinced me, you've got a house here now, you have a
• 1:18:19
  family. And I was going, OK, OK, OK.
• 1:18:22
  So I stayed there. But when I was done, after four
• 1:18:25
  years, I went back up to Vermont.
• 1:18:27
  We decided we were going to leave the East Coast and go to
• 1:18:30
  Colorado and live in Colorado. And I saw Miles.
• 1:18:35
  And Miles asked me, what do you think about what's going on in
• 1:18:37
  the Middle East? Was 2005.
• 1:18:40
  I said it's a mess. The president landed on the
• 1:18:42
  aircraft carrier and said mission accomplished.
• 1:18:44
  Well, that was a year ago, over a year ago and it's not now.
• 1:18:47
  It's about weapons of mass destruction, he said.
• 1:18:50
  Have you ever, you know anything about TE Lawrence go?
• 1:18:52
  Yeah, I was going to do a one man show and he goes, what?
• 1:18:56
  That's what I want to. Do have you read 7?
• 1:18:59
  Pillars of wisdom. I said, yeah, I've read 7
• 1:19:01
  Pillars and then other things, he said, Will you be Lawrence?
• 1:19:03
  We could, we can tell people, show people how we got into this
• 1:19:07
  Middle East mess because it goes back to World War One, the
• 1:19:11
  Balfour Declaration, the Sykes Picot, the this, the, that, you
• 1:19:14
  know, it created this stir. And I said, I, I can't play
• 1:19:18
  Lawrence. He was 5 feet 5 1/2.
• 1:19:20
  I'm 6 foot 3. This is.
• 1:19:25
  Miles, Miles doesn't give up. Get a bigger chair.
• 1:19:28
  We'll get a bigger chair, I said Miles.
• 1:19:33
  I'm not going to do it. I'm not doing it.
• 1:19:36
  We ended up getting introduced. Because we wanted to.
• 1:19:39
  Do a play to a Broadway producer.
• 1:19:42
  Miles had the 1st. Meeting with her I.
• 1:19:44
  Wasn't in town and she bought it in 5 minutes to 10 minutes to
• 1:19:49
  bring TE Lawrence back to life, put him on stage and bridge an
• 1:19:53
  understanding of how we got into the Middle East.
• 1:19:55
  Mass based on facts, but it centers around Lawrence of
• 1:20:01
  Arabia and everybody's. They're my everyone just got so
• 1:20:06
  excited. So we put capital together and
• 1:20:11
  we realize we have to hire a, a playwright, our producer,
• 1:20:17
  executive producer who had done Amadeus, Nicholas, Nickleby,
• 1:20:23
  Dracula, Elephant Man. She'd won so many Tony Awards,
• 1:20:27
  West End and New York. She was, you know, it was
• 1:20:32
  incredible that we and we're still with her.
• 1:20:33
  We're still plugging away at this play that's now called
• 1:20:38
  Dinner at the Majestic. And the Majestic is the hotel
• 1:20:42
  where the British were assigned in 1919 at the Paris Peace
• 1:20:47
  Conference. And we center the play now not
• 1:20:51
  just on Lawrence, it's really centered on Gertrude Bell and
• 1:20:55
  Lawrence and Amir Faisal Hussein.
• 1:20:58
  Now his brother became the the king of Jordan Abdullah and he
• 1:21:05
  became the first king of Iraq. And so we're working on that
• 1:21:12
  play. And So what happened was after
• 1:21:16
  the meeting with with Nell, the executive producer, and.
• 1:21:21
  The agreement. We were.
• 1:21:25
  Talking about it. And we we said.
• 1:21:26
  We just, we have to go. Yeah, we've got to go to the
• 1:21:32
  Middle East for it to be authentic.
• 1:21:36
  We've got to go. And then we'll bring the the
• 1:21:38
  leading guy that plays Lawrence, this is our thought.
• 1:21:41
  And back in 2005, we'll bring him back, put him on a camel,
• 1:21:46
  get him so he really understands what it's like, you know, to be
• 1:21:49
  Lawrence of Arabia and take him through Wadi Ron.
• 1:21:52
  But we've got to go there first. So we did, and we set it up.
• 1:21:57
  And just like in flow, you're LED to the next step.
• 1:22:06
  And there was so much. We didn't know of.
• 1:22:08
  What we needed to do in order to get to the Middle East.
• 1:22:14
  But why the Why the hardcore preparation?
• 1:22:17
  Because initially was was it always planned to go on the
• 1:22:23
  tracks of of Florence OR no? It does.
• 1:22:28
  No. OK, not then.
• 1:22:31
  Not a thought until. After we had the Broadway
• 1:22:33
  producer and we realized that we want to go and then we told her,
• 1:22:38
  I mean, we, we was right after meeting her, I mean, she, she
• 1:22:40
  just got so excited too. Everyone was excited about it.
• 1:22:44
  We only told business people and we raised money to go to the
• 1:22:49
  Middle East and we, we identified a, a foundation that
• 1:22:56
  I'm kind of jumping ahead. We, we did Kayak for A cause
• 1:22:59
  together at the same time we're doing getting ready for this
• 1:23:03
  trek in the Middle East. He pulled me in to kayak for A
• 1:23:08
  cause, which is an organization where kayakers paddle across the
• 1:23:12
  Long Island Sound from Norwalk, CT to Calf Pasture Long Island
• 1:23:19
  and then they take transports back, which was something I was
• 1:23:24
  brought in because of the production.
• 1:23:25
  I, I'm production Miles has always been ideas and money and
• 1:23:30
  pulling the team together. I, I execute the productions
• 1:23:35
  and, and, and with him, but I am the lead on that.
• 1:23:39
  And so I started bringing in the Noble Brothers, brought in
• 1:23:44
  Dickie Betts in the Great Southern, brought in the Whalers
• 1:23:47
  at different years. For this event where the
• 1:23:52
  kayakers raise money, they form a pod of 10 paddlers.
• 1:23:58
  They give it a name like the Pirates or the Wenches.
• 1:24:01
  You know, we ended up with 33 pods.
• 1:24:10
  We ended up at the highest level of 331.
• 1:24:14
  Oh no, excuse me, it was 313 kayakers.
• 1:24:17
  So it's 30 pods raising money to go across the sound and come
• 1:24:25
  back, have a party, have steak and lobster, listen to a band
• 1:24:30
  dance on the beach. And then we would write checks
• 1:24:34
  from the money raised to charities.
• 1:24:39
  Well, we worked. It up to the money that was
• 1:24:41
  raised. And the enthusiasm around these
• 1:24:43
  pods, within the pods and pods against pods.
• 1:24:47
  Who could raise the most money? We raised enough money to write
• 1:24:52
  5 checks, $50,000 each to five charities.
• 1:25:00
  And that was the enthusiasm built.
• 1:25:02
  Around the build up of this whole thing that started in the
• 1:25:07
  first year with two guys paddling across the Long Island
• 1:25:11
  town to see if they could. It was miles and is in a in a
• 1:25:16
  great friend and and a friend of mine as well, Scott.
• 1:25:22
  And then people heard that they did it and they said we'll we'll
• 1:25:26
  do it when they said, well, maybe next year we'll do it
• 1:25:28
  again. I think the next year they're
• 1:25:30
  like 7. The paddle across in the third
• 1:25:33
  year, it just grew to 313, which is a Guinness World Record of
• 1:25:39
  the most sea kayaks launched at one time back then.
• 1:25:42
  This would be 2009, 2010, and it's not.
• 1:25:48
  In their book because. Miles didn't pay the money to
• 1:25:52
  have it in the book, but he has the certificate that says that
• 1:25:57
  signed and sealed and and so we still claim that position.
• 1:26:03
  So for our trek to the Middle East, we did the same thing.
• 1:26:07
  We wanted to identify the charity, raise money for us to
• 1:26:11
  go following TE Lawrence's path and the charity we identified
• 1:26:18
  was Seeds of Peace and I hope that you will include that in
• 1:26:22
  the show notes, Seeds of Peace, Seeds ofpeace.org and we we met
• 1:26:32
  the the lady. The wife of the.
• 1:26:34
  Man who had started as the man had passed on.
• 1:26:37
  John Wallach had passed on and his wife was continuing, Janet
• 1:26:44
  was continuing with the organization.
• 1:26:46
  And if you look it up, you'll see it's still going.
• 1:26:48
  It's been going since 1993. And it's an organization that
• 1:26:52
  brings Palestinian and Israeli thought leaders or Arab and
• 1:27:00
  Jewish thought leaders, high school thought leaders together
• 1:27:04
  to Maine, United States and Maine on a lake for the summer
• 1:27:09
  to take workshops on conflict resolution and how to learn to
• 1:27:15
  live together. And she was thrilled that we
• 1:27:21
  were going. She was surprised because it was
• 1:27:25
  dangerous. No Americans were going into
• 1:27:28
  Saudi Arabia in 2005, 2006. And it took eight months of
• 1:27:33
  training and the unfolding of what we needed to do and be and
• 1:27:40
  have in our possession, knowledge and physical.
• 1:27:45
  We took backpacks, but what was going to be in the backpack to
• 1:27:48
  do a track from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia to Damascus, Syria,
• 1:27:53
  following TE Lawrence's path? We spun off in different areas
• 1:27:58
  and we had to go to Petra, you know, we had to go to Jirash, to
• 1:28:03
  the we. There were just places we wanted
• 1:28:05
  to see. We rode camels through Wadi Ram,
• 1:28:08
  From Aqaba to Wadi Ram, I guess it was four days, three nights,
• 1:28:13
  three nights, four days. No one of those.
• 1:28:18
  You spent time several. You know, days and nights going
• 1:28:23
  around first getting there on camels, so one other person, so
• 1:28:29
  you had the preparation process, you have the other.
• 1:28:31
  Trainings you had, you started Arabic as well.
• 1:28:35
  Basic stuff you plan. Your route was there a.
• 1:28:41
  Moment when you thought, no, I will not do this.
• 1:28:43
  Was there a moment when you're close to backing up?
• 1:28:48
  There was a moment when we found out that one of the.
• 1:28:50
  Hotels we were going to stand had been been bombed by
• 1:28:54
  terrorists. You know, it was, it was about
• 1:28:58
  10 days before we found out. We got the news or we heard
• 1:29:02
  about it and it was are we going to?
• 1:29:07
  Go there or not. We're going, we have been told
• 1:29:11
  by by Jamie, our security risk assessment instructor, the one
• 1:29:18
  that that was the private secretary.
• 1:29:21
  He was also a partner private secretary to the Queen for
• 1:29:25
  Prince Harry and Prince William for their securities.
• 1:29:28
  And we're talking about the year 2005 is when we first met up
• 1:29:32
  with Jamie and 2006. And when we met him, he said
• 1:29:39
  that we didn't know this beforehand, but we didn't know
• 1:29:41
  that he was a partner at Ackerman International
• 1:29:44
  Insurance. It was where we were going to
• 1:29:46
  get our kidnap and ransom insurance because we needed it.
• 1:29:55
  And from. That they said have.
• 1:29:59
  You been trained? Are you, are you getting
• 1:30:01
  instructions? Before we could get the
• 1:30:04
  insurance, they were asking these things and they said you
• 1:30:07
  must have formal training. There's Blackwater, there's
• 1:30:11
  Centurion, there's Triple Canopy and you might be able to get
• 1:30:14
  things. But we have a partner that just
• 1:30:18
  that has worked with some people similar to you.
• 1:30:21
  We didn't know who he was, who she was talking about, but when
• 1:30:25
  we met Jamie, he had taught Ewan McGregor and Charlie Borman had
• 1:30:29
  given them similar instruction that he gave us when they before
• 1:30:34
  they did their long way around motorcycle trip.
• 1:30:37
  I don't know if you're aware of that of them, but there's 4/4 in
• 1:30:41
  the series. But they were first trained by
• 1:30:44
  Jamie. And so in that training, he
• 1:30:49
  said, Saudi, you know, kidnapping, ransom.
• 1:30:54
  If you are. Kidnapped in ransom Saudi and he
• 1:30:57
  said I'm not talking about the government.
• 1:30:59
  I'm not talking about, I'm just talking about.
• 1:31:01
  If that were to happen, you the. Likelihood of you getting?
• 1:31:06
  Out from that is very slim and so you must be.
• 1:31:12
  Very careful and we went through.
• 1:31:14
  Things what careful means in our travels, he said Jordan it's
• 1:31:19
  much more westernized. You know Amman, Jordan is you'll
• 1:31:22
  you'll like it and there's you should make sure you go to this
• 1:31:25
  place, that place and you suggest to places because you
• 1:31:27
  knew the area you didn't know Saudi as well Syria, he said
• 1:31:33
  it's. Dicey and so.
• 1:31:34
  When we got the news that that a hotel in this place is more
• 1:31:38
  westernized has had been bombed, it was a wedding party.
• 1:31:46
  A wedding party, you know, they some bombs went off at a wedding
• 1:31:52
  party crazy and they made their statement.
• 1:31:55
  It didn't destroy the building, destroyed the wedding, you know,
• 1:31:59
  so we so that was the going or not going, we were always going.
• 1:32:04
  So there was not not even a question asked about that.
• 1:32:07
  So. You trained, you prepared, you
• 1:32:09
  planned, but nothing really prepared you for what's coming.
• 1:32:13
  I would say in the next part of our conversation, we we will
• 1:32:17
  follow you to the to the track.