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Opus Dei P2: more pain, less gain · Journey to the Fringe

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
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us on a journey to the fringe. Hello and welcome
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to Journey to the Fringe. If we haven't made
0:17
it clear yet, just email us. We're lonely. Please.
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We are your lonely podcast hosts, Taylor and
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Chelsea. Weirdly that we are too, and still lonely,
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but here we are, nonetheless. And weirdly enough,
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also a two -parter on the part two. And I'll
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let Chelsea go from here. Wow, that was incredible.
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Okay, so if you remember from last week, we recapped
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Opus Day. We were talking about Opus Day. Right,
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right. I'm pretty sure that's what happened last
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week. It's been a long time. It's been a week.
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So we're into the fringy business of Opus Dei.
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Last week, we talked about how they were kind
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of implied with Banco Ambrosiano. What else did
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we talk about? Oh, the original Vatican Bank
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fraud one. Yeah, that was the one I just said.
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Oh, was that? Banco Ambrosiano. I thought that
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was the Spanish Bank. And then... Also, another
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bank, Spain's Banco Popular. Two banks. We talked
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about two banks. Two bancos. Yeah, two bancos
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last week in which Opus Dei had ties in. I'm
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not going to tell you all about it in this episode
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because that was last week's episode. You can
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always listen to it again. We do make that available
1:37
for you. It's just a special benefit of listening
1:40
to us. Just email us the 20, okay? Email us.
1:43
It's kind of on the honor system. So let's just
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jump right into the other allegations, I guess,
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of what Opus Dei is up to in this day and age.
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I hope I summarized that good enough. If not,
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too bad. Allegations of human trafficking. Yep.
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Okay. Yep. And these are called the Little Sisters.
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Okay. That's a terrible name. I'm not looking
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forward to this. Yep. This one's a very dark
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one. currently being discussed, and I believe
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in court as well, in 2025 -2026, in Argentina,
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a group of women, former numerary assistants,
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if you will remember back from our Kohl's Notes
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of Opus Dei, these are the women who are segregated
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to be nannies, cooks, you know, take care of
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all that stuff, because that's what you do as
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a female. who have filed lawsuits alleging that
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they were trafficked. They claim they were recruited
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as teenagers from poor families with the promise
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of an education under the guise of attending
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hospitality schools, but were instead allegedly
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trafficked across borders, Paraguay, Bolivia,
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Uruguay, where they were instead forced into
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unpaid domestic servitude. cleaning the houses
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of wealthy members for decades without pay or
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social security, essentially being indentured
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servants for God. In a major 2024 -2025 legal
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battle, federal prosecutors in Argentina accused
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Opus Dei of human trafficking and labor exploitation.
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43 women, mostly from rural backgrounds, who
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were recruited as teenagers, some as young as
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12 or 16, are the victims. I'm sure there's more.
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These are the women who are currently involved
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in this legal action. I'm just curious, Chelsea,
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are they from one particular country or are they
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just kind of from all over? It sounds like they're
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kind of from all over. It sounds like as... being
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trafficked, and it looks like mainly Argentina,
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but we're looking at Paraguay, Bolivia, a lot
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of Central South America countries. For decades,
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they worked 12 to 15 hours a day cooking and
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cleaning for the elite members. They alleged
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they were never paid, had their wages redistributed
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back to the organization, and were often denied
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social security or pension contributions. This
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is an active and evolving legal situation. Federal
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prosecutors in Argentina have officially indicted
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high -ranking members of Opus Dei. I'm going
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to post some of the sources for it. this up in
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the episode notes. I have an article from The
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Guardian titled, I Became Like a Slave, Why 43
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Women Are Suing the Secretive Opus Dei Catholic
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Group in Argentina. So the indictment specifically
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names Monsignor Mariano Fazio the second in command
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of Opus Dei worldwide as a defendant. So I guess
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there are people who are, like, in charge and
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stuff. So I wonder. I am curious about how. Nobody's
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in charge. He's just a number two. He's number
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two. But who would be the number one? No number
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one. There's lots of number twos. He's the highest
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they go. Yeah. So remember back from the last
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episode, Gareth Gore, who wrote that book, which
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was a little bit of a spoiler alert because in
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along with that, when I told you the topics,
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I did say human trafficking. He got into the,
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he's a pretty interesting, I've listened to some
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podcasts with him on there. He originally got
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into this doing some investigation on the Spanish
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bank and he got into like, he ended up writing
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this crazy book. He's the guy who was on majority
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report. Gareth Gore. Yeah. Yeah. So there you
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go. I will give that a listen. So he reports
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on this as well. And he just goes crazy into
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Opus Dei after finding this out about investigating
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the Spanish bank and their ties to Opus Dei.
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So he interviews whistleblowers and looks into
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investigations, particularly in Argentina, involving
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the recruitment of young girls from low -income
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families. He alleges they were lured into the
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organization and forced into years of unpaid
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domestic labor at Opus Dei centers. So there's
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that. Pretty good. That one's ongoing. we'll
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do a mini in the future just to update what's
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going on with it the next is as i mentioned in
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our last episode as well opus day Like, you kind
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of get some cult vibes off of it, right? Oh,
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yeah, for sure. Gore also delves into the secretive
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world of numeraries and their cult -like practices
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of Opus Dei. If you'll remember, the numeraries
6:42
are celibate members who live in gender -segregated
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houses. He details the mortification of the flesh,
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which is the use of the cellus, the spike chain
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around the thigh, and the discipline, whip. I
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guess that means, with no further details. So
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good notes, Chelsea. Good work. No notes. No
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notes. No more details. Just whip. I did watch
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an interview with, they're funny with their secretive.
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They're not allowed to do interviews, really,
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if they're a member of Opus Dei. regarding practices
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or anything makes sense probably unless it's
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portrayed in the proper light yeah like recruitment
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videos or something or you know yeah it's another
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Opus Dei person doing the interview yeah yeah
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so it was only ex -members that they were able
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to some wouldn't even give their identity but
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one of the guys that I watched he showed the
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thing that goes around the thigh he still had
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it for some I don't know why you would keep that
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as like I think at some point you start to like
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it or like mean I don't know that he would be
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wearing it. Do you think that he would be wearing
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it if he left Opus Dei? Maybe. I don't know.
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He didn't lift up his pant leg and it was on.
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Old people are constantly wearing ties out in
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public despite the fact that they're not comfy
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and not required for their everyday life. I never
8:04
thought about how uncomfy a tie would be. Is
8:07
it uncomfy? Yeah. I mean, it's something that's
8:09
threatening to strangle you the entire time you're
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out using it. That's true. Just like lightly
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strangling you throughout the day. Never thought
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of it that way. Just give me a reminder that
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your life can be taken very quickly. Due to your
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own personal choice, or at least your boss's
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personal choice. I should give people more ties
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for presents. I really don't hope you get me
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for Secret Santa this year. That is a threat,
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I will tell them. I'll write it in their card.
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You could have gotten a tie. No, I got you this
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tie as a threat. Oh, good. Don't forget, you
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could die. Recruitment tactics used include grooming
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child numeraries as young as 14. As I was saying,
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it was... We knew about that, yeah. In the other
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one, it was young girl. It's almost like grooming.
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Oh, it is grooming. Completely like grooming.
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Weirdly, there haven't been sex allegations,
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which I'm not saying... As like, I don't know.
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I don't know how to move forward with that. Other
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than making that statement and being quiet. I
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mean, it's just an assumption at this point because
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they're part of the Catholic Church. Yeah. I
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don't think I directly address any sexual stuff
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in this. But you gotta think. They are Catholics.
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You've got a lot of celibate men that, like,
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that's how the entire Catholic Church is supposed
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to work. And man, that did not work out. No,
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it does not work out at all. Which is something,
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actually, I'm glad you brought that up. Because,
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I mean, that alone has huge implications of all
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the celibate men altogether. Like, that's never
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good. So, yeah, they have their grooming. They
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have psychological control. Allegations of members
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being prescribed heavy psychiatric drugs to remain
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compliant. We've already discussed... Like how
10:00
heavy? 20 pounds? 30 pounds? Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
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And we've already discussed emails being monitored,
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financial control. So there are a lot of cult
10:11
-like practices going on in this. Control of
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banks, right? That you see in cults. Yeah. I'm
10:18
just waiting to hear which news source they own
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at this point. Yeah. Because that's when you
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really know you've made it as a cult, is when
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you own a newspaper. That is very true, actually,
10:28
if I've learned anything from our podcast. Next
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point is, I can't wait to find out what this
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means, because I can't remember. the pinky and
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the brain level of influence. There is a persistent
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theory that Opus Dei operates like a white masonry,
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a secret society of the elite. High -level reach
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because they target intellectuals and leaders.
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People have accused them of placing members in
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the U .S. Supreme Court, the FBI, and major European
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governments to steer global policy toward ultra
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-conservative religious goals. Why are there
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so many that want ultra -conservative? Why can't
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we have one that's pushing towards socialism?
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I know, right? I know. Like, just give us one.
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Come on, Opus Dei. You don't have it in you,
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obviously. You're Opus Dei. But, like, I get
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what you're saying. Like, why not have, like,
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a liberal, very liberal cult? Do they exist?
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I don't think they would. I'm sure they do. I
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would have to think about it. That's kind of
11:31
off the top of our head at this point, but I'm
11:33
sure somebody will be screaming at us for it.
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Oh, that would be a good episode. We should find
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one and do an episode on that. I'd be interested
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in that. Maybe I'll join them. I don't know.
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I don't know yet. I haven't heard the episode,
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so I don't know if I'm interested yet. Maybe
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one day I'll find out. Okay, so they have high
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-level reach. Which we kind of had to discuss
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in this episode or the last one. I can't remember
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now. They're all blending together. It's been
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a week. How am I supposed to remember? Well,
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J .D. Vance is out there. Like we talked about
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him fairly early on. Yeah, J .D. Vance. Something
12:02
about him. The shadow government. Critics point
12:05
to their $47 million headquarters in Manhattan
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and their influence in Washington, D .C. as evidence
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that they aren't just a prayer group, but a political
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lobbying machine disguised as a ministry with
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ties even to the current president. Good point.
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That's a very good point, my notes. I still don't
12:25
know what pinky in the brain level of influence
12:27
means, though. Who came up with that? The next
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one is modern slavery in plain sight. Whistleblowers
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like Eileen Allen, whose memoir, I Am Eileen,
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was recently released, describe a life of total
12:46
control. She was an Opus Dei member, in case
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I don't say that. Quick question for you, Chelsea.
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Are most of the people that are complaining about
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Opus Dei women? Yeah. Okay. So the celibate men
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actually don't, like, overall aren't complaining
13:00
that much about the situation. No, I can't say
13:03
that. No, and you did say some, like he does
13:05
interview them, but it just seems like the specific
13:07
ones that were coming out, like the lawsuit and
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then this woman are women. Yeah, you're not wrong.
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I... Did not include any men it looks like so
13:18
far. I don't believe I do. No, but you did talk
13:20
about that. You did talk about that one that
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Gareth Gore did interview who still keeps his
13:25
thigh slasher thing. That was not Gareth Gore.
13:29
That was just a documentary that I... Just an
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interview. Okay, okay. There were lots of men
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in there speaking out about them. These ones
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are more... It seems like women are more... easily
13:42
going on a record about it then. But they're
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not getting, it doesn't seem like, to positions
13:48
of power within Opus Dei. They're actually treated
13:52
quite poorly. And it basically is modern slavery.
13:56
Their role within this organization is being
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a slave. Oh, is to be a maid. An unpaid maid.
14:04
And that is slavery. So they do have more to
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complain about. I mean, the men just have to
14:13
complain about being celibate. Yeah, but the
14:17
women complain about being celibate, but also
14:19
a slave. Yes, exactly. So, I mean, the men can
14:24
come out and talk out against it. These are what
14:27
I believe to be a lot more controversial than
14:29
just the men being like, ugh, like, I had to
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self -flagellate. But do the men technically
14:36
not meet the definition of slavery, too, in that
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they don't have any money? That's true. Because
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they have to give it all to the church. That's
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true. But also, I don't know, does that meet
14:46
the definition of slavery? I don't know. What
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is the definition? I have a vague idea of what
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slavery is. But then they have to give it all
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to the church. How do you define it? point slavery
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like what is the definition the state of being
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a slave oh good that's exactly you've been optimized
15:05
so well okay let's see miriam webster dictionary
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defines slavery as the practice or institution
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of holding people as chattel involuntary and
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under threat of violence The state of a person
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who is forced, usually under threat of violence,
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to labor for the profit of another. A situation
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or practice in which people are coerced to under
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conditions that are exploitative. Submission
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to a dominating influence. Yeah, I mean it does
15:39
fit that. Yeah, I guess they both do. So. It's
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just like different coercions and like situations
15:45
that they find themselves in, but yeah. Yeah,
15:47
so Opus Dei slave owners. Slaves. Just in general,
15:53
not just female slaves. Let's continue to talk
15:57
about... modern slavery in plain sight. Whistleblowers
16:00
like Eileen Allen, she describes a life of total
16:03
control. Directors allegedly read all incoming
16:06
and outgoing mail, even phone calls to parents
16:10
were monitored or forbidden. Members were often
16:13
told that leaving the group was betraying God
16:15
and would lead to eternal damnation for their
16:18
entire family. That would be hard if you, like,
16:21
really believe in a religion. That's like, the
16:25
Jehovah's basically say that too. Yeah, no, that's
16:27
true. Although the question really is, are they
16:29
cults too? Yeah. And yeah, we run into really
16:32
fine questions about what makes a cult versus
16:35
a religion. Yeah, in my eyes all the same. But
16:38
slavery probably makes the cult. Yep, it does.
16:41
I believe that's a fact. Many members found themselves
16:44
with zero savings or even bank accounts after
16:47
decades of service, leaving them trapped because
16:50
they had no financial means to escape. That's
16:53
financial abuse. That is the hard thing, yeah.
16:56
No, nobody can leave because, like, where are
16:58
they going to go? Because nobody has a bank account.
17:01
That's crazy. Allen describes how the organization
17:04
allegedly used the blacklist of forbidden books
17:07
and films and how directors would routinely read
17:10
and censor members' personal letters to family.
17:13
That's insane. She details the vocational trap
17:17
where leaving the group was equating with losing
17:20
your soul or spiritual suicide. Eileen's account
17:23
provides the internal perspective of the psychological
17:27
and physical control used within the centers.
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Yeah, so, slaves. Next one, the Silas and mind
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control. Pop culture, thanks to the Da Vinci
17:38
Code, loves the scary monk trope. Celibate members
17:41
do use the celis, the spike chain, as we've clarified
17:46
multiple times in these episodes, and the discipline,
17:50
usually for two hours a day or during specific
17:53
prayers. Ex -members have described psychological
17:56
coercion, where directors... I almost called
18:00
them dictators, read their outgoing mail, dictated
18:04
which books they could read and force them to
18:06
confess their private thoughts to lay superiors,
18:08
not just priests, which is a huge no -no in standard
18:11
Catholic practice. While Opus Dei publicly downplays
18:15
corporal mortification as minor discomfort, whistleblowers
18:19
describe a more intense psychological environment.
18:22
The Celis? Former members confirm the use of
18:25
the spiked thigh chain for two hours daily to
18:28
describe it as leaving small prick holes in the
18:31
flesh that made them self -conscious about ever
18:33
wearing a swimsuit or shorts around non -members.
18:36
Some members were encouraged to sleep on the
18:39
floor or without a pillow as a form of nightly
18:41
mortification. I did see one that was made to
18:45
use a phone book instead of a pillow. Like as
18:48
punishment or because they had to memorize it?
18:50
The phone book. Yeah. Both. Okay. Yeah. Founders
18:55
allegedly taught that the body must be beaten
18:57
into a slave so it doesn't turn traitor to the
19:01
spirit. Aha. Yeah. A source for this one, The
19:05
Case Against Opus Dei, National Catholic Reporter.
19:08
I'll throw it into the episode notes for you
19:11
to do much more research or little research.
19:15
It's a do as you choose type thing. It'll be
19:18
in the notes waiting for you if you want those.
19:20
We have no force to work on this podcast. Yeah,
19:22
it's true. So we have some current drama going
19:26
on with the Pope. The current Pope, Pope Leo
19:29
the, I think we landed on 9th. 9th, yes. This
19:33
is actually a hot topic in the church right now.
19:36
As of late 2025, early 2026. Pope Leo IX, following
19:42
the lead of Pope Francis, has been tightening
19:45
the leash on Opus Dei. For decades, the leader
19:48
of Opus Dei was usually made a bishop. What?
19:52
Like, at the Vatican? Yeah, just a high up person.
19:56
That is insane. Now, the Vatican says he cannot
20:00
be a bishop no more. Huh. Yeah. The Vatican wants
20:04
to make sure Opus Dei is seen as a group of regular
20:07
people, the lay people, as they had said, serving
20:12
God, rather than a mini church within the church.
20:15
They're basically being told you're a service
20:18
club for the soul, not a private kingdom. By
20:21
Pope Knight. Leo the Knight. Yeah, Leo. Forgot
20:24
the Leo there. So I'm sure you were really anticipating
20:29
this one. And this is modern political influence
20:33
that Opus Dei had. It got my juices flowing with
20:37
all that talk about their headquarters in Washington,
20:40
D .C. and stuff like that. Even Taylor talking
20:43
about J .D. Vance. Gore's book goes into this
20:46
as well. Sounds like a really good read. He looks
20:50
into this and makes waves by connecting the organization
20:54
to current U .S. politics. Gore tracks Opus Dei's
20:58
role in bankrolling right -wing causes and its
21:01
links to figures like Leonard Leo and the Heritage
21:04
Foundation. Leonard Leo, he's the head of the
21:06
Heritage Foundation. Leonard Leo and the Heritage,
21:09
head of the Heritage Foundation. They're basically,
21:11
and if you need an idea of who this is. He tells
21:15
Trump who to appoint as judges. Okay. And he
21:18
got a ton of money. Like somebody donated several
21:21
billion dollars to them two years ago. And like
21:24
all three of the Supreme Court justices that
21:27
Trump put up there were members of the Heritage
21:29
Foundation. And pretty much everybody who's been
21:31
appointed as a federal judge is a member of the
21:33
Heritage Foundation. They're on a list of people
21:36
that Leonard Leo just gives to Trump to appoint.
21:38
Cool. Sounds fantastic. Probably a good episode
21:41
of its own at some point. Probably. Yeah. We're
21:44
not quite a politics show. We're a fringe topic
21:48
show where we talk about how shitty the politics
21:52
are at this point. And not to that point, but
21:56
it was a good point that we're not a politics
21:59
show. Kind of. We're a fringe show. I mean, don't
22:06
come here for the politics because you're going
22:08
to get Bigfoot too. But I gotta say, Bigfoot
22:14
is probably an anarcho -socialist. We do it all
22:20
here, Journey to the Fringe. Investigative journalists
22:24
have documented deep ties between his administration
22:28
and individuals closely associated with the organization.
22:32
The connection is generally described not as
22:35
a direct religious affiliation, but as a strategic
22:38
alliance between Trump's mega movement and the
22:41
traditional Catholic power structure in Washington,
22:44
D .C. The legal architect, Leonard Leo. The most
22:48
significant link is Leonard Leo, the longtime
22:51
leader of the Federalist Society. Oh, sorry.
22:54
Yeah. Federalist Society, not the Heritage Foundation.
22:56
Heritage Foundation is different. It's the Federalist
22:58
Society that he's the head of. Okay. Well, now
23:00
I'm confused. Yeah. Okay. Heritage Foundation
23:03
is something different. Okay. So what you were
23:06
talking about was the Federalist Society? Yes.
23:09
Okay. The Federalist Society is the thing that
23:11
lawyers join and are members of. Okay. So...
23:14
And my next point is exactly what Taylor pretty
23:18
much gave a rundown of. So Leo, he's the primary
23:22
architect of Trump's judicial appointments, including
23:26
the selection of Supreme Court Justices Neil
23:29
Gorsuch. Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett.
23:35
Leo is a prominent Catholic layman with deep
23:39
ties to Opus Dei. He has served on the board
23:41
of the Catholic Information Center, CIC, and
23:44
DIC, which is run by Opus Dei priests and serves
23:50
as a hub for the conservative Catholic elite.
23:53
So weird. Gore's book argues that the overturning
23:57
of Roe versus Wade was the culmination of decades
24:00
of lobbying by this Opus Dei adjacent network.
24:04
I hate that. Okay, so Project 2025 and Kevin
24:08
Roberts. Kevin Roberts, the president of the
24:12
Heritage Foundation, which is a totally different
24:14
thing, I guess, from the Federalist Society,
24:17
from what I've learned so far. They are. Yeah,
24:19
that one's a, oh, what was their name? Koch Brothers.
24:23
thing they funded it as a political movement
24:26
we did something with that didn't we we've talked
24:29
about the Koch brothers before David and I think
24:32
David's the one that's left but um probably just
24:35
keep going yeah I intend to thank you So Kevin
24:41
Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation
24:43
and the driving force behind Project 2025, is
24:46
another key figure. Roberts has publicly stated
24:50
that he receives regular spiritual guidance from
24:52
the Opus Dei -led Catholic Information Center.
24:56
Critics and journalists like Gore point out that
24:58
many of the policy goals in Project 2025, such
25:01
as restructuring the federal government and implementing
25:05
strict socially conservative laws, align with
25:08
the integralist philosophy often found in Opus
25:11
Dei circles which seek to integrate Catholic
25:14
teaching into civil law. Several high -ranking
25:17
members of Trump's first and current administrations
25:20
have had documented ties to the organization
25:22
or centers. Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former acting
25:26
chief of staff and OMB director, was a frequent
25:29
visitor to the Catholic Information Center and
25:32
has been linked to the network Gore describes
25:34
as the Opus Dei syndicate in D .C. Pat Cipollone.
25:39
Trump's former White House counsel also has longstanding
25:43
ties to the same conservative Catholic circles
25:46
in Washington. And apparently J .D. Vance. I
25:49
don't even think that J .D. Vance makes it onto
25:52
this list. Because he doesn't do anything, let's
25:55
face it. It's true. If he actually did something
25:57
or was entertaining in any way, maybe we would
25:59
talk about him. He gets booed a lot. Interestingly,
26:05
as of late 2025, early 2026, the relationship
26:09
has shown signs of strain. Trump has recently
26:13
lashed out at Leonardo Leo, calling him a sleazebag
26:16
on Truth Social after some of Leo's judicial
26:19
picks did not rule. Yeah, they didn't do what
26:21
he wanted. Yeah. Conversely many traditionalist
26:25
Catholics associated with Opus Dei have expressed
26:28
conflict over Trump's shifting rhetoric on certain
26:31
issues even while supporting his broader judicial
26:34
and regulatory agenda. And then there's the Black
26:38
Pope myth. Because of their unique legal status
26:41
reporting directly to the Pope, they have often
26:44
been called a church within a church, operating
26:47
with a level of autonomy that makes outsiders
26:50
and even other Catholic priests highly suspicious.
26:55
Hmm. Well, and that weirdly makes sense with
26:58
the amount of people who are Catholic within
27:00
the Trump administration who say they know better
27:04
than Pope Leo. like like they understand catholicism
27:08
better than the pope which is like categorically
27:11
as a catholic you can't think that because the
27:15
pope is literally god's voice on earth oh yeah
27:20
no it's like not it's not necessarily outright
27:23
said but they constantly say how they disagree
27:26
with how the pope views things which would make
27:29
sense if they kind of have their own like view
27:31
of what the pope is or a separate pope yeah interesting
27:35
and i don't think that that's like Something
27:38
I could imagine. I don't know, like, that much
27:41
about the Catholic Church. Like, I know about
27:44
the asshole popes. Like, the important ones so
27:46
far. I'm sure there's going to be more that I'll
27:48
learn about asshole popes. Oh, there's some good
27:51
asshole popes out there that we'll cover. Oh,
27:53
they probably don't like to be told that, like,
27:56
Catholics don't agree with their views. Because
27:58
they're, like, the almighty. Yeah. It also weirdly
28:02
brings up, this is a weird topic, that, like,
28:04
J .D. Vance was one of the last people to meet
28:06
with Pope Francis. before he died. Interesting.
28:09
There's an Opus Dei tie there as well. Yeah.
28:14
I didn't even think of that. And here I thought
28:16
it was just the black hole of his charisma that
28:20
sucked into the last fleeting life force of the
28:24
Pope. And then he dies. Anyhow, we got this tie
28:28
as well between Trump and Opus Dei. It's essentially
28:32
transactional. Trump provided the political power
28:35
to appoint conservative judges and enact specific
28:38
policies, while the Opus Dei -linked intellectual
28:40
and legal network provided the dark money, the
28:43
vetting process for judges, and ideological blueprint,
28:47
like Project 2025, to run the government. So,
28:50
that's the end of my Opus Dei episode. It's two
28:54
episodes with Kuhl's notes. I can't do a 25 part
29:00
or Opus Dei episode for you. I just can't. They
29:03
use influence. They use money. They have two
29:06
corrupt banks, at least so far. And apparently
29:10
everybody's wages that they're just of the slaves
29:14
that they own. So they have a lot of money and
29:17
it's just crazy. And they just seem to be getting
29:20
more powerful. They do because they're just getting
29:23
more and more money. And then. This is where
29:25
you see people with a lot of money then go to
29:29
Washington, D .C., for example, and then they
29:32
use their influence there to influence conservative
29:36
politics because they have the money. They have
29:39
the people and influence. And it's just crazy
29:42
how kind of far it goes. And that's where I can
29:45
see the connection. And how easily it moves.
29:47
Yeah. With secret societies because of like the
29:50
tentacles that it reaches out. And it's not a
29:54
good organization. And which is crazy that money
29:58
has that much influence. It shouldn't have that
30:01
much influence when it comes to politics. You
30:04
see it all over the place. And it's just another
30:07
tentacle. don't know why i'm thinking so much
30:09
about tentacles right now but there's like tentacles
30:15
all over the place tentacles of influence tentacles
30:17
of money tentacles into politics um it's just
30:22
a tentacle it's just tentacles that's all the
30:25
world really is yeah so that's opus day huh yeah
30:30
and tentacles Sadly, I don't think this will
30:34
be the last time that we have to talk about them
30:36
because I don't see their power waning in the
30:38
near future. No, hopefully a little bit with
30:42
number nine, Leo. Yeah. Taking it away a little
30:46
bit. No, that's with the church. I'm worried
30:48
more so that it's going to be a political movement
30:50
in the States for a long time. Yeah, no. Yeah.
30:53
I mean, the Pope's not going to take that away.
30:56
Um, he's just not. So I guess we just kind of,
30:58
this will likely sadly be an update in the future
31:01
where we talk about how, remember that time where
31:04
we weren't all ruled by Open Bay? Yep, that's
31:09
where my mind went as well. Yeah. But I guess
31:12
in the meantime, I have been Taylor, here with
31:15
Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank
31:17
you all for listening and we'll see you next
31:18
week. Tentacles. Thank you for listening to Journey
31:23
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31:57
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