Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / Occultinarium - EP 11 - Keter, Chokmah and Binah on the Tree of Life
Transcript
- Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium your tonight are... Luigi: Luigi? Amelie: family. Adriana: Adriana. Lynn: we got the ⁓ notification that we ⁓ reached 133 the podcast on Apple Podcasts in spirituality. So woohoo! ⁓ Amelie: Yeah and we would love to reach this goal in on YouTube as well so please subscribe and help us to reach 133 maybe we could do like 132 number one that that is our goal Adriana: You Number one. Lynn: ⁓ yeah. we're gonna do it. Yes. And then I'm on number 100, 99, yeah, let's go. We're just gonna climb. That's good. Yes. And thank you for everybody who was watching and on Apple Podcast to make it such. That is amazing. Thank you very much. ⁓ appreciate it. Bless it. Adriana: Number one! Amelie: 99 is a good number too, I like that. Yeah, we appreciate it very much. Adriana: you Luigi: Thank you for your support. Adriana: Blessings. Lynn: episode we're going to pick up a topic that we have previously brushed the surface on and that is the Kabbalah, mainly the Hermetic If you're new to topic check out our previous video on it which you will see a link somewhere around here. If you're completely lost, you like being lost and just like to follow along anyway, you're ⁓ welcome. Tonight we will focus the three ⁓ But also because time we recorded we recorded without our dear Adriana and Adriana has a bit more input about the Kabbalah from the Jewish perspective, the Jewish Kabbalah. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Lynn: we ⁓ like to start just for a little short comparison between the main of differences, if you will, the Jewish Kabbalah and the Hermetic Kabbalah, which we will focus on later. Yes, ⁓ take the floor. Adriana: Mm. Okay, you, Lane. Yeah, I think it's been interesting because the original is ⁓ a Hebrew, Jewish origin takes us like 20 centuries. was like created in the third to sixth century, but they have a bowl and It took more, I think, more emphasis with the Soran in the 13th century, in Spain. But in fact, I think the Kabbalah, the Hebrew is a Torah-based symbolism and focused more in the divine relationship and to have an ethical vision our own life, how we can do the kundatish reparations. more in the the midst the vessel that breaks. don't know, you know, the the meat of the vessel and the lights. So it's a explanation about creation, about how the universe and the reality has created. So from Ain Soph that is the nothingness to the finite things to matter. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: And I think the tree is more like a map of God's emanation, how is the divine light that goes through Sephiroth to Sephiroth, going through the pillars. Because the pillars, in fact, is how the energy behave, how this down, that the vibration goes down, and the creation of matter, and vice versa, you can ascend as well after. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: going through all the and the horizontal planes through Sephiroth. So we have the three pillars. That is behavior the energy. So the pillar of the severity, and the central pillar. Maybe did last time that was mercy and severity, male, female, and expansion and restriction and so on. And the horizontal worlds as well, is the levels of reality or we can say like worlds that is the absolute, that the emanation, is pure consciousness, the unity, the divinity, you know, that is, I think the archetypes that we are going to study today, we are going to concentrate in Aziluth today. But we have very odd that is the creation. like the ethics, morality, the purpose, it's more like a question in who are we becoming, what is the purpose, what is, you know, like altruistic ⁓ of what is the qualities of a human being or what we can achieve with that. Then we have Yetzurah that is the formation of it's going. from very abstract to more concrete, so it's more individual in how we are our own self, our psychic, our emotions, how integrate these with the energy comes from above ourselves. So it's all these principles of morality the conflict, with the desire, with the emotion, with the subconscious mind, with all the... we have from childhood and like that. So it's like showcase we are compressing, compressing, compressing to reach the world of Assiah that is the kingdom Malkuth. In fact, reality, time comes a reality. So in general is here. So is the presence of Huayam is what we're early starting the podcast about time, how it goes, how fast or how slow that is fast when we're having fun and they slow when we are bored. so, it's all these emanations that became from about from the pure light from the insult that is the unknown. It becomes down, down, down into the most basic reality of every single day we have. And we can create. So it's awareness. thoughts, emotions, become a reality. And it's in that Malkuth that we had the opportunity to have an observation and create correction that is ticked in Hebrew, in the part of the Kabbalah, the Hebrew Kabbalah, where we an integration and an elevation and in order heal and for healing it becomes like straightening the vessel that we are, expand the vessel in order to hold more awareness, to hold more light. So the pillars, as we say, three pillars, four horizontal walls of plans, 10 sephiroth each, that is these spheres. But I think we have always the concept of the sephiroth, that's a plan, it's two dimensional. No, this is all three dimensional, so it's played with different dimensions. And each has inside another Sephiroth and each one. So it becomes like working with multi-dimensional situations with all the realities and so on that may create the universe. So ⁓ we have the 10 Sephiroth ⁓ and then we have Lynn: Yeah. Adriana: The paths, there are 22 paths that is the connection between each one is the transition bridges that connect each one. That is how we interpret the world and how we interact with each emotion or with each situation. And which path take us to a more merciful or more painful experience in life. But what is important or what is Lynn: ⁓ Adriana: Probably the Kabbalah with K, the Hebrew one, is teaching us how can I use this not only to explain the cosmogonic aspect from the Zimzum that it was the first infinite contraction of the universe to create awareness of himself and then ⁓ light enters into his vessel and how he breaks down and goes into each Sephira to create reality. But equally is something we can apply for our daily life, for our psychic, for our emotional aspect, for our business. You can put, you know, ⁓ every aspect of your life, you can identify which Sephira is working or is not working, what is in excess, what is lacking. So you can use the tree as a map, as a guide for you to improve your quality of life and to improve your money. is Assiah ⁓ Malkuth So ⁓ they are lacking or something like that, you have to work on that aspect in Malkuth ⁓ ⁓ intention to ascend, to go up towards tree in order to ⁓ create balance between Kether and Malkuth in order to have a flow of abundance. So yes, I think that is what the Hebrew ⁓ Torah-based Kabbalah tissue. The Catholic one with a C is a Renaissance interpretation mainly used by thinkers like Giovanni Pico della Mirandola that is more a Christian theology. They use more the tree as a theology called bridge, more than a life experience for yourself or explaining. how the universe was created or how can you improve your life? It's more like a representation of justification of the Christian theology. then we have the Cabalabra with a Q that is the hermetic occult that my colleagues are experts about that. enjoy time I learn from them because it's the Western esotericism that is developed by hermetic order of the Golden Dawn among others. Lynn: you Adriana: You guys, you involve astrology, tarot, alchemy, and the tree is more like a psychological and magical system. So I leave, I pass to you, you know, whatever you want to say, because I would love to learn. Probably Mia has been concentrated past couple of years, three, four years studying the Kabbalah with a K about, you know, how work in yourself and work with different names of God and the Hebrew letters and so on and so on. I think that is fascinating is the input ⁓ the tarot and the astrology and I think they expanded, you know, the principles of the Kabbalah. So, pass up to you. Lynn: Mm. Yeah, it's really deep, interesting topic. mean, just like you mentioned that it's a map, that like the image I pulled up, it's just two dimensional, but then, know, it's actually or more than three dimensional goes into it. It's one on top of the other and be like, yeah. it's really just way to kind of illustrate. Adriana: Yeah. Lynn: a part of it really some part of the structure but then ⁓ such a it's much more much bigger than than we could ever ⁓ and it's dynamic yeah and i think ⁓ yeah Adriana: Yeah, nice. Also, it's... and it's dynamic and it's organic and evolves with you. It's very funny because every time that when you use, to give you just an example, Kabbalah, it give you questions. In the evening, you have to reflect and meditate and say, what structures improves to me? what do they think, it is Binah aspect, know, that is that intelligence that keeps you like, it's like focus, like it keeps you like understanding of things that you have to question yourself, you know, and you can think in the left hemisphere of your head, you know, because that the area of Binah. So it's like, but, you make a, you are thinking of Chockmah is, Lynn: Mm. Adriana: what insight did I receive today? it's little questions, questioning yourself or meditate or ponder in that question, that will help you to develop that energy in that correspondence, sephira. So Kether is just sit in silence before go to sleep and you can just breathe and yourself, feel like the universe that is outside of yourself in this area Kether. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: that it will give you insight. it's nothing, it's not what, only I want to transmit is the tree of life is not a ⁓ strap concept, ⁓ painting that put there, it's something that you can work on yourself, that you can integrate inside of yourself. Be conscious of that and use it as tool for you to become a Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: hate to say the word better, but ⁓ to make yourself whatever want to be, freer, happier, whatever. So knowing when you the concepts of is sephira and knowing that they are interacting to each other, that it can affect not only your physical manifestation of your body, your weight, your health, your money, your ⁓ house, your life, whatever, Lynn: you Adriana: you can integrate that into, this is connecting to this part. So I'm using more this area in my life. I'm sabotaging myself because of this area here needs more balance. So integrate the tree as part of yourself to understand more about your life. And I think that is the beauty of the of life. And I Lynn: Well. Adriana: when the hermetic as you do guys more elements, enrich that, enrich that knowledge that I would like you guys who are watching us today is to absorb, like take it, know, take inside all this divine knowledge in order to make yourself whatever you want to be. And my message today. Yeah. Lynn: Well, Luigi, yes. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Amelie: As we were talking about the Hermetic as well, I've got the Hermetic deck because we're doing the of today as well. So I thought before we start getting into like the deeper aspects, I'm going pull the whenever you guys talking and then we shall reveal it at the end. Lynn: us. Yeah. Adriana: Yeah Lynn: Mm-hmm. Yes, go ahead, exciting. right, well, I guess I will give the word to you, Luigi, if we're going to... I'll just pull up the picture again for the Tree of Life. We're not going to keep it up there for the entire time, but just so that you a little... look at it for now. So Adriana was talking about the pillars and then we are obviously talking about the pillar here, the left one, the middle one and the right one. If you just want to say a few words about the pillars, Luigi, just names and characteristics. Luigi: Yes, so obviously there's a few ways to refer to them, the pillars. ⁓ The preferable one to me, when I say preferable, it's purely because I find it less, more open wide in terms of interpretation. ⁓ So the left one would be called or known as the pillar of form and the right one as the pillar of force. And the middle one. again, known by many other names, but the term that I prefer is the pillar of spirituality. And I guess the right pillar represents the masculine principle, the left one, the feminine principle. The masculine pillar on the right, the pillar of force, it's that idea of pure energy, pure energy that is not contained, it's just unlimited. But, and if limit is the right word to use, that limit comes in place or comes out to play in the left pillar, in the pillar of form. So that's the balance, method, movement, rhythm that Adriana was talking about. So the energy of the pillar of force is balanced out by the pillar of form so that everything comes into harmony in order to create life. And I guess the... Adriana: you Luigi: Everything about the Tree of Life, and sometimes by extension everything about magic to some extent I suppose, ⁓ is this idea that there are multiple realities and then it's also this paradox that perhaps there are not that many realities but there is just one reality. All the different realities ⁓ follow a loop and they fold into one. And I say that because that's basically the pillar in the middle, the pillar of spirituality. Adriana: You Luigi: this deep and I say secretive, but only because it requires a lot of contemplation to get to ⁓ visualization and understanding of it. But this principle of, yes, we have duality and yet we also have oneness. So that's what I would like to say about the pillars. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just had a thought that would be really interesting to actually compare it or talk to some Eastern philosophers where duality isn't such a big concept and see how their systems would integrate because it's so interesting that how we in the West are very much like this duality but then also you say duality and one but like the twos and the wands and there's like a lot of philosophies around Luigi: Mm. Adriana: Yeah. Lynn: numbers there as well. ⁓ But then if you were to compare to things that I know very little of, like nothing, but to other systems where duality just isn't like such a big thing or is not existent like that or not so high in rank or value, then you know it's very different. I find it very interesting. think we should get somebody. If there's anybody out there listening who knows their stuff, Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: you Lynn: and knows that, please contact us. We can do an episode. I would find that really interesting. so. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah. Adriana: is also interesting is that the goal is to stabilize them, isn't it? It is to integrate, go from ⁓ the to the nothingness, from the nothingness to the form. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: and to take the, you know, is the stabilize all the levels simultaneously. So it's like having a balance with when you see they neutralize each other. So becomes like Wu Wei you know, philosophy, like let it go, you know, like go with the wind, you know, just like go with the teaching, experience, because by the way, they're going to integrate as one, you know. So I think if we see it as a whole, Lynn: you Hmm. Adriana: they balance each other, they neutralize each other, ⁓ it rest just like central column that the spiritual aspect that is everywhere. So I think the other one is like an aspect if we go to the streams, like go like in a wave, you know, where the wave goes ⁓ like in a spiral, by the end, the connection is the oneness, yeah. ⁓ So I think it's Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. All right. today we were thinking about focusing on the first three ⁓ Sephiroth, that's Kether, Chokmah and Binah. ⁓ we start with what they mean, like the mean and what they represent. Adriana: all of them in one. Thank Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah. Do you want to zoom slightly in into the... Thank you, thank you. Lynn: I am, am zooming slightly in. So this is what we're going to focus on. Adriana: Hahaha! Luigi: Yeah, so obviously the tree can be divided not rearranged but arranged in many different shapes, in many different graphics ⁓ each one of them will lead you to a different spiritual journey and spiritual revelation. And as you said, the one that we're focusing on today is probably the most complex, so I guess we're ambitious with each other. ⁓ But we're looking at the supernals. Amelie: you Luigi: what known as the supernals and basically what it means is that they ⁓ or live on top of the tree. However, it's funny because yes, they are visually ⁓ on this image of the tree of life, they are on top of the tree. ⁓ I guess it's another important point to raise. ⁓ Theoretically, the top of the tree as we see it actually represents the roots of tree and the bottom of it represents what I will call a Chioma in Italian, but I'm pretty sure. Is it called a crown in English? The top part of the tree with the leaves? Yeah. So again, it's really like this is something that we're not going to get at the bottom of not because we can't, but purely because of time and pacing. shouldn't probably dare to uncover this big cronundrum. But basically it's interesting to observe how the top sephira of the tree. Lynn: Yes. Yes. Yeah, the crown. Adriana: Yes, like Corona. Yeah, Crown. Luigi: Kether, which translates to crown, represents actually the roots and the visual of the tree that actually is supposed to represent the crown of the tree, it's at the bottom. So that's an interesting paradox to reflect on. But yeah, Kether, the mighty Kether, the one where light comes from and the one where all the energies that follows the other Sephiroth comes from. I think an important aspect of Kether to consider, particularly in ⁓ Hermetic Qabbalah. So when you on the word crown, one of the first things that you may think of is the crown chakra. And I think that's very intentional because one can argue that a way for us to access intuition, ⁓ knowledge, spiritual awareness, ⁓ cosmic truth, shall we say? And all the other fancy words that we can think of. How do we access them? Perhaps through, or at least partially from, ⁓ our crown chakra. The chakra that is supposed to rule over the connection between us and the spirit realm. So yeah, will have... Kether in a way, it's like very simple to describe and yet impossible to comprehend. Adriana: Hmm. Luigi: because of that oneness, because of that energy, because of the beginning point, because of the source of all life. We can talk about it, we can look at it from a visual ⁓ internet, virtual perspective, but if you were, I guess if you were to fully experience, at least that's what's known in the craft, in the hermetic traditions, in the tarot traditions, in the tradition of the golden dawns and whatnot, if you were to fully experience Kether, you would not. come back to human existence, allegedly. Can't say that I tried, and I guess like, don't know if I wanna try. I guess it's a principle that I am deeply in love with, but I approach it with sensitivity, or sensibility rather. And yeah, that would be then followed by Chokmah, or if I was to try to pronounce it a bit better, Chokmah. My pronunciation is not that good though. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: you Okay. Luigi: which translates to wisdom. So, whether Kether was the beginning of it all, the source of everything, the source of light, ⁓ Chokmah is its first expression. And it's interesting reflect on the wording, translation, how the first emanation, the first expression of this crown, of this divine light, it's the principle of wisdom. And in a way, Like I'm not an Oxford dictionary by all means, but even the term wisdom quite complex to define, isn't it? ⁓ how do you gain wisdom? How do you acquire wisdom? Is it purely by experience? Can it be taught? Is it divine ⁓ DNA based gift? Who knows? ⁓ But ⁓ it's that in Chokmah, which is supposed to be the top of the pillar of force, and this force is in a way represented by the word wisdom. something to reflect on that. Obviously, because it contains the number two, there may be, again, discussions about duality for certain, ⁓ I encourage people always not to dwell on the term duality too long or too intensively, only because, again, like we discussed plenty so far. Duality, as we know it, we can explore it, we can discuss it, we can analyze it, but then there is also the consideration of the one. ⁓ and it becomes another paradox, another conundrum full of them. If it was money, we'd be rich. ⁓ And then from Chokmah the energy transfers over to the pillar of form. So now this force that we encounter in Chokmah, originated by Keter, it's now encountering one of my favorite sephira, if I can say so myself, just because I'm partial, Binah, the Divine Mother. So she sits, I say sit, but... Lynn: Bye! Luigi: struggle sometimes ⁓ words because she's not exactly sitting, but basically she is there ⁓ the top of the pillar of force and she translates to understanding. ⁓ now we have these two ⁓ yeah, but also incredibly different principles, the principle of wisdom and the principle of understanding. And I guess ⁓ way to think about it, wisdom can be a ⁓ abstract to an extent. You know, we can have discussions about it. It could be a whole academic paper to write about wisdom. Whether understanding, it's a little bit more ⁓ on the mental spectrum, definitely on the, forgive me the word, logical spectrum, I suppose. But that's just to observe the different powers or the different influences between Chokmah and Binah. ⁓ But Binah, go on, go on. Lynn: Yeah, it's like, mean, I'm just playing with words here, but like wisdom is usually something you have and understanding is something that you reach. Luigi: Very true, very true. And that expresses what you said there and then. It expresses perfectly the principle of the two sephiroth, know, like wisdom as something that you have, a force that already exists, that the universe life is force, ⁓ is energy. And then ⁓ Binah reaches for the wisdom, I suppose. ⁓ Adriana: Yeah, perfect. Yes. Lynn: Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Usually you have to work for it. Yeah, you have to work for understanding something and wisdom often comes with age. Also it comes with experience, right? But it's a bit like... It's not so much. It doesn't feel like it's so much in the... head? For me? Adriana: Yeah, think that's. Luigi: Or not isolated in the head, but I would say partially perhaps inspired or affected by the head, there is a... because now being also the Divine Mother, there is definitely a heart-centered focus or energy. And I guess also the understanding on how to apply the wisdom, the understanding on how to deliver the wisdom, you know, because... Lynn: Yeah, yeah. Mm. Mm. ⁓ Mm. Yeah, yes. How to, yeah, how to work with it. Yeah, yeah. Adriana: Yeah. Yeah. Because, because we're, Ain Soph that is above Kether that is they are not, they think that we cannot even imagine, you know, they in a manageable, they, they consider that we cannot conceptualize, the variation where they light reach a hundred percent is Kether. Luigi: Yeah. Adriana: that metric ⁓ represented by the dot. ⁓ that the flow of the energy lose 10 % of that energy is transferable. So ⁓ will have 90 % light, you know, and that is not just the wisdom that is like the internal inner knowledge, but it's intuition. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: It is as well the things that we don't learn or the things that we cannot mentally process, you know, but that we know is there. It's like divine inspiration, intuition is all these concepts that sometimes as a spiritual people, we try to develop like the pineal gland and so on. Because we are trying to reach that divine knowledge, that divine connection of the wisdom. ⁓ without the presence of that lose another 10 % of light. So Binah is 80 % light, 20 % matter. That it gives you is the reason, is where your intellect, your intelligence give an understanding to that intuition, to that inner self-knowledge or whatever divine inspiration or, So it's when you have a vision or something like that that you try to explain the symbolic meaning or language to interpret to manifest the situation. So I think that they are related, but the female aspect, and they say women were the less clever beings. For that they attack women. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Mm, mm. No, no, no, that's a modern invention. We've already covered that. Adriana: They attack us because we are the intelligence that interprets the wisdom. We give sense, we give intellect, we give discipline, we give order, we create concepts. Binah is the one that creates the concepts that is related or is based in our wisdom. Because as you were saying, wisdom is very abstract. It's a concept, isn't it? Luigi: Yeah. Adriana: We say the word wisdom, we don't know even what that means, you know. But when we say ⁓ understanding, we call ruling, when we call concepts that can explain, ⁓ when use language or when we use our intelligence to explain the wisdom, that is the energy of Binah. Luigi: Yeah, totally. And I guess, in Binah, another important aspect of her is the first... Can I use the word birth? When I say birth, what I purely mean, if you look at the tree ⁓ as a total and different triangles, for example, because now we're exploring the supernal triangle, and then there are more triangles underneath. ⁓ Lynn: creation. Luigi: You can allocate the different triangles to the different worlds, the different Kabbalistic worlds. Because I think we mentioned it during your explanation, Adriana, at the beginning of the session, So the first triangle that we're observing now, the supernal triangle, can be corresponding to the archetypal world, which is the kingdom of Azzeluth, which also represents the kingdom of fire. Adriana: Okay. Thank Luigi: And Binah is the bus stop, train stop, stop altogether. It's the final stop of this kingdom. So therefore, it's the first, ⁓ and I use this word very loosely, it's the first death and therefore the first ⁓ birth what comes after, for the Sephiroth that will follow after, for the worlds that will follow after, for the emanation that will follow after. ⁓ because the supernals again, Lynn: Mm. Mm. Hmm. Luigi: They are divided by the rest of the tree from the abyss, the great abyss of knowledge, the great abyss of the primordial cosmic knowledge. Lynn: And you've said, like you said, you've referred to Binah as the mother a lot, but you've had not actually referred to Chokmah as the father, but you've avoided that. Adriana: Thank Luigi: That's because I avoided that because I still got so much trauma with the masculine and the sacred masculine. But also because I need to face it, divine father. But I will also point out that, you know, like although gender is an hermetic principle, the principle of gender, that's the beautiful thing about the hermetic tradition. The principle of gender is that Adriana: Hahaha. Lynn: We have to face it. We have to face it though. We have the divine mother and the divine father energy. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: masculine and feminine, they may be distinct, but the Hermetic tradition suggests that each individual, each being in existence, not just people, but also animals and even trees, even the vegetable world, we all possess a masculine and a feminine equally. In tradition, Adriana: Mm. Luigi: is the supernal father and be not the supernal mother. But in my ⁓ pagan ⁓ obsession, no obsession, rather like passion and love, and in my delulu existence, I tend to view the entire tree as a divine goddess. But yeah, for the sake of consistency and truthfulness and accuracy, yes, one can perceive, or not one can perceive, one can view Chokhmah and refer to Chokhmah as the supernal father. Lynn: You Luigi: and Binah as the supernal mother, in their own right. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, we will definitely see that represented when once you dive into the connection with the tarot as well, you know, and the placements of the queens and the knights or kings. Yeah. So there's that play as well ⁓ in the top three. Yeah. Adriana: be done. Big o'. Luigi: Yeah. Yeah. Adriana: Yeah, in geometry, we say, the temple Kether is defined with the geometry of the dot. The symbol for the Chesed is the line. And Binah, the representation is the triangle. So, it is like the number three, like the universal completion of things of understanding. I think, so guys, can you tell me? Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Adriana: A little bit more about the planets and the tarot cards that correspond to each one of these and the symbols. I know you really are an expert in the transit, in the paths between them and what it represents and what is the thing that we need to learn to connect them. Luigi: I wouldn't call myself an expert. I would be very careful about that word. But thank you for your faith. ⁓ Adriana: you Lynn: It's okay, Luisi. We are calling you expert, so you don't have to. Adriana: Ha ha ha! Amelie: You Luigi: But yeah, I think before we go into the planets astrology and the paths I guess let's talk about function and when I say function I mean how can one utilize whatever we discussed so far. So as we said and both myself and Adriana and and even yourself and Lynn and Amelie you're both aware of this as well. When exploring the tree Lynn: Mm. Luigi: The purpose that you can apply the tree for and to your life can be absolutely infinite. However, if you need a starting point, let's focus on the big word that it's such a mantra of the spiritual realm and community, manifestation. So I would say that Kether and the supernal in general are the principles of manifestation. ⁓ Kether being the infinite possibilities that an idea can go. ⁓ be the idea itself, but it can also be the energy that comes before the idea, that lightning flash, the bulb, that Eureka moment. ⁓ And Chokmah instead can be the principle of drive, can be the principle of dreaming energy. Dreaming energy as word does not really express the qualities of Chokmah. But when we get into Chokmah realm the possibilities are not as infinite anymore as they were in Kether, but they are still very much they are still very much unstoppable. And Binah, it's when things start to take a slight shape. And say slight only because we still got a long way to go. But Binah would be the one that says, okay, this is the first step now. This is the first practical functional step to bring my idea, bring my plan, bring my dreams, bring my seed. Adriana: you Luigi: blossoming to fruition. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, or like you said earlier, said birth, right? So we're like, it's a creation process. So we're making something now with all that all that energy that we're having. And now we're ⁓ something out of it. Luigi: there. energy. And yeah, I guess the conversation about the planets and the astrology can get bit heated depending who you discuss it with, but we are amongst friends, there's not going to be any punches being thrown. ⁓ Lynn: No, and I think we all disagree with the tree that we're actually showing here. We're probably none of us are using it like that. Luigi: Yeah, because obviously the image Amelie: you Luigi: Yeah, because obviously the image that we shared right now, it's an image that we source from the web, from the ether of the Google, would have placed Pluto in ruling Kether and ruling Chokmah and Saturn ruling Binah. And the only one that we can agree on is Saturn ruling Binah. And that's traditional ⁓ practice of the tree. ⁓ Lynn: Mm... yes. Mm. Mm. Yeah, we do that. Mm. Mm. Luigi: before the generational planet as we refer them to Pluto, Neptune, Uranus were discovered. Kabbalah, whether it was hermetic or Jewish or Christian, I suppose. But let's on the hermetic. ⁓ Did not include Pluto and ⁓ Neptune and Uranus. And so ⁓ those were brought in, Lynn: Mm. Luigi: there's been a bit of a creative process and not so much redefined decision about which one belongs to who, I suppose. ⁓ But obviously the image that we have there, have Pluto in Kether Uranus in Chokmah. And I can see reasons why that would apply because obviously we know Pluto as a planet of rebirth and Kether as being the part of the tree and the realm of existence furthest away from our comprehension. Lynn: Mm, mm. Luigi: And we did discuss earlier on, like if somebody allegedly was to experience Kether, they will lose themselves. When I say lose themselves means that they will not be able to be human anymore. There a legend, I believe, I don't know if legend is the right word, but either a myth or a legend that Enoch that experienced Kether and to the role of Archangel and became Metatron? Lynn: Mmm. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, so that's an example as I allegedly if you were to experience Kether you will ascend the divine order and become something different. So I guess Pluto in that way will be applicable. But the way that I experience or reflect on or rather learn Kether, it's that much infinity that cannot possibly be ruled or associated to anything but the light. That's not to say that anybody that wants to use it with Pluto shouldn't. They're more than welcome to. It's just about different perspective and different ideas. Uranus, I know Amelie, we've been discussing the of Uranus to Chokmah. I think one of the principles that can be applied for Uranus to be in Chokmah. So as we know, in the traditional Kabbalistic system, Amelie: you Luigi: Chokmah will not be ruled by a planet, but will be ruled by the zodiac, by the stars. Uranus, if you take it from the sky deity of the Greek pantheon, it would represent the skies, it would represent the heavens. So in that regard, it can probably occupy space of Chokmah, but there are other versions that have Neptune instead of Uranus. And Neptune again can be applicable because of the principle of wisdom, because Neptune coming from the deities of the seas of the Greek pantheon would be about the divine intuition, the realm of dreams, the realm of the subconscious and the unconscious and the unknown. So that would be a Chokmah principle and a Chokmah element. But of element, What really becomes a bit of a paradox is the water element of Neptune in the sephira fire, of pure fire, that would be Chokmah. So that's another conundrum, another debate that people can have fun and have a drink over. And then we have the... ⁓ Go ahead. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: Well. Lynn: I must say, yeah, I just must say it's completely possible like, I'm a person who's both in my astrological chart and in my Asian astrological, have fire and water and it... Okay, I'm careful to say it works out perfectly, but it can exist. It can coexist and you get sort of functioning out of it. Luigi: Yeah, and especially because we did discuss how everything possesses else, doesn't it? Like, we discussed how the principle of gender is something that we all embody in our own right, ⁓ with ⁓ So nothing stopping the powers of waters of Neptune to occupy the of Chokmah for example. So yeah. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: do you think about the planet? is ⁓ interpretation? Amelie: I find it very, think it's because of the first, so the first Kabbalah tree that I ever and kind of ever was from an author that trust or that was like, I like that this man is right. And that was it, it did not Uranus in Chokmah. that, that was like, this is how super my brain, my brain is. But, at same time, I just, I also feel like Da'ath is to me, I assign a planet to the Sephira that we cannot see, would be the only one that I feel would be applicable. to that Uranus is also a very new planet and is just chaotic and which I would apply to that. But was just about when you guys were talking about water and then in the fire thing, water Luigi was saying about stars. Adriana: . Amelie: And I'm thinking, about the principle of water above and below, ⁓ in like the waters above? that kind of makes sense as well when we're talking about stars, the water of it, if, you know, if, now there would be a dome, let's say, and there's water above and below. So that kind of like goes. with that as well. Now we're just like, you know. Adriana: So that means all the hermetic principles apply to this, to the Sephiroth, to the tree of life. Luigi: to these? Well, I think the hermetic, this is me partially projecting my own passion and view into the conversation, but ⁓ think the hermetic principles just apply to life in general. But obviously, yeah, you can find ⁓ and ⁓ which is a principle of hermeticism, ⁓ can find correspondences easily in the entire journey and image the tree ⁓ for certain. Adriana: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I think so as well, yes. that means the know, the rhythm, the pendulum of the rhythm and so on, and they go to the static one, to the column, is low rhythm, the ⁓ mentalism, you obviously the conception of the tree and so on, is another low there. So I see as above is below and Luigi: Mm-hmm. Adriana: because when you go from Kether to Malkuth, you go to Malkuth to Kether, you know, the connection of both of them, are directly in front of the other, both opposite to each other. So yes, I think we could apply all the principles with hermetimis, the hermetica in the tree of life as well. So that make another rabbit hole we can go into. ⁓ Luigi: Was it the other? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And ultimately, I think anybody is invited to do what they're comfortable with, what them to become the most beautiful versions of themselves. That's what I will say from a personal perspective. ⁓ Yeah. Regardless of whether you want to... ⁓ Adriana: Mm-hmm. Mm. Amelie: wonder if it has also something to do with, you know, what was, did people study during the time when they came up with this? Because there certain times when they studied certain planets and certain aspects and certain philosophies were very popular and, you know, in vogue. you know, and then philosophers had a completely different way of thinking. And obviously back in the day, a long, long time ago, Adriana: So. Lynn: Hmm. Mm. Amelie: things were very different because we could see stars and then we came to whole philosophy with numbers and everything and then things became physical and more about like... actually what is universe and what kind of gases are there and it became a little bit more like that so then maybe the train thought kind of changed like for each so this is maybe there is so many different applicable planets numbers well not numbers actually numbers are the only wands that we all agree on ⁓ but Adriana: Mm. Luigi: Yeah. Ha ha ha Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: don't think we can contextualize maths that much. Adriana: So. Amelie: but Lynn: Hahaha. Amelie: Ha Adriana: But do you agree with Saturn rules, Binah, both of you? Luigi: Definitely, yeah. Well, yeah, I will open a conversation about what else can rule Binah. ⁓ But think I'm very happily married to the beloved Binah, belonging to or Saturn, vice Saturn belonging to the beloved Binah and vice versa. I guess because again, in astrological terms still expresses the principles of Binah, like which are Lynn: Yeah. Adriana: Why? Luigi: about containment, you know, before again, before the coming of Uranus and Neptune and Pluto and so forth, if we even still consider Pluto a planet, always I forget that sometimes it becomes a bit of a controversial conversation. But even before their appearance, before joined the casting, you know, had only Saturn as those edges of the solar system. So again, ⁓ edges. principle of form, the principle of containment, the principle of death and rebirth, I suppose, as well, because you can't really look at ⁓ without looking at the other, is much powers that possesses in astrological terms, in astrological traditions. And beyond the even if we look at the Pantheon, the Saturn comes from, whether it's Roman or Greek, suppose. this idea of time and time again being another principle of Binah when we explore space in Chokmah and time instead in Binah. Yeah. ⁓ Adriana: Good. Lynn: And I think mentioned this in the other episode we had about the Kabbalah, or maybe I did at another point, I don't quite recall. ⁓ But think in my opinion we shouldn't be too hung up on the ⁓ definition planet because again, it's like the definition we're using in ⁓ Kabbalah is like a body in the Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Because also the sun, the sun is a star, right? And the moon is, moon is a moon ⁓ and are planets and neither is the zodiac. So we just, it's an older of like ⁓ just something in the sky, a body in the But we're not ⁓ using the astronomical. Luigi: Exactly. and not planet free. Lynn: definition of planet, which is ruled by certain So it's a different definition. We're going with the astrological ⁓ body in the sky. with Pluto is a planet everything else. ⁓ Adriana: Yeah, it is. OK. Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Well pointed. Yeah. Adriana: Okay, so guys, what is the tarot corresponding to each one of these? ⁓ Luigi: So that's a tricky one because in terms of tradition and again like always I use words very loosely because you know nowadays you get cancelled like nothing. ⁓ But yeah I think I will I am with a full disclaimers. But I think they were often taught ⁓ in Kabbalistic means and traditions not to apply the arcana for example. Lynn: Yes. ⁓ Adriana: Thank you. Amelie: Take a chance. Lynn: That's all. Amelie: You Luigi: to the individual Sephirah. But I still think that if you do, not applying them, but if you reflect on the numerological correspondence between the individual Sephirah and the Major Arcana, you can gain so many beautiful messages. You can have a whole cosmic journey of your own. So if you that on the number one, two, three, you'll be looking at the Major Arcana ⁓ of the Magician the Magus if you're using Toth. Lynn: you Luigi: the priestess, which I affectionately call the Aradia, and the empress for Binah. But that being said, in tarot practices, the Tree Life practices, the Sephiroth would be an expression of the minor arcana, and of the Sephiroth would also an expression of the court cards. So in the case of Kether, Chokmah and Binah, we would have the wands, the aces, the twos and the threes. Yeah. Adriana: Yeah, but it's the principle of the beginning, isn't it? And the other one has said is what? Chokmah Chokmah is the twos Luigi: Chokmah will be the twos Court wise it will be the knights. Well here ⁓ need to time and pace. Yeah there is a bit of an academic battle that's been going on for years ⁓ whether the ⁓ or the are Chokmah ⁓ and can maybe have whole episode about that. I that will be a very interesting episode actually. ⁓ Adriana: Yeah. Lynn: Even here we battle. Adriana: Thank Luigi: I think tell you where I come from in terms of education, tradition and belief. ⁓ you're using a Smith deck and if you're using a Toth deck, the Knights would be corresponding to Chokmah and the Queens and the Threes to Binah . So you can see. Amelie: But with the tarot deck, kind of depends how you follow. Right? Or am I wrong or am I right? Because some people say that the kings are the knights, right? Luigi: Go-go-yeah go- Exactly. So that's the thing that I was mentioning that the eternal battle between that. But I think and this is something for us to consider we do a whole episode around this topic, the ⁓ call it the battle ⁓ between the knights and kings of the Smith deck and where do they belong in the tree of life. ⁓ think there is enough evidence that I can also point out with the known and ⁓ you what happens when you write Adriana: Where? Lynn: Let's do it. We have to, we have to do an episode on that. It's like next one, next time. Luigi: I know, I know. When you write a paper, when you write your dissertation, what is the thing that they ask you to do all the time? ⁓ Reference? Yeah, like there's several references to indicate that it would be the knights and not the kings. But again, again, I can't stress that enough. That is not saying that anybody who's using the kings in Chokmah, in their own individual practice, or anybody who has not made up their mind yet and don't know how to make up their mind. Amelie: Yes. Lynn: Yes. Luigi: Let's go with what your heart says, ultimately. ⁓ Adriana: So it would be correct to say that the aces is for Kether, the kings or knights in Chokmah and the queens in Binah. Amelie: Yeah, I feel that too. Lynn: Yes, and you also have the twos. Luigi: as well as the 2s for Chokmah and the for Binah. Adriana: twos and threes. And okay, okay. So I can use the knight or I can use the king, yeah? Lynn: Yeah. So you have. Luigi: I mean, I would say to you, use the knight, but I'm far from me from forcing you to do anything. Adriana: The night. Okay. Amelie: I have a feeling that we're quite biased on the knights here. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah! Adriana: And they're not okay. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, I'm also having the knights there. Adriana: But that's in the Smith deck. If you are using Todd deck, what is the one you put? Luigi: We prepared the seedless tomatoes. Lynn: No. Luigi: The Thoth deck is 100 % the Knights. ⁓ It's just that there is this ⁓ again disagreement that the Smith would be the Kings and not the Knights. But we are saying that, or at least I'm saying, because I don't want to get anybody into trouble, but I'm saying that it should be the Knights versus the Kings. Lynn: Yes. Adriana: Night. The night. Okay. Okay. Amelie: I just had a, like, back to it, because we were talking about Binah and Saturn, and that I battle as my, it's just a personal thing, I think. I completely agree with this whole like, containment and stuff, but I also find it very interesting that Saturn ⁓ is Binah, because Binah is very feminine. I find Saturn as very masculine planet. in that sense is the well father time is linked to it. Am I right? this whole containment as It's very like restricted. I find that the feminine aspects of things is not constricted. But at the same time, but at the same time, ⁓ when it comes to like, birth, sort say like physical birth, ⁓ Adriana: But we're adding the. Yes. Mm-hmm. Amelie: that kind of aspect. I totally agree with as in like, if you have, you know, the egg, you contain the seed in the egg is the containment is growing inside. So like ⁓ that completely agree with. So sometimes like my brain kind of battles with that because there is just it really depends on which you're about. And how see the planets and this is why it gets so, what's it called? It gets a little bit difficult when you put planets into these and this is why probably it's... Lynn: I mean, if you're just talking, yeah, for the thing where it's like time, where you're saying like Father time, there are lots of aspects that you brought up where you find that Saturn is kind of not fitting for you. ⁓ But just in time aspect, if you're thinking about the fates or like deities that have do with actual time aspects that Adriana: Mm-hmm. Lynn: correlate to our lives in person. It's the fates both in the Greek mythology and the Norse mythology. The Norns, are female deities or female spirits. also in the Norse you have mother or the old like mother basically, who ⁓ like she battles. a legend where god has to battle her and Adriana: you Lynn: nobody can win against her because she is old age and old age win against everybody even the gods so there's kind of this kind of aspect of time in in those myths and those mythologies are very femme or are female ⁓ base a sense yeah yeah although chronos of course yeah Adriana: Okay. Luigi: Yeah. in to add to what you're saying, yeah, to add to what you're saying, Lynn, even if you think, we think about the aspect of the divine feminine, as well the, the Caileigh who's known as the another aspect of the crone, but that deity of winter and that representation of time and what truly Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Luigi: becomes a visual physical representation of time is the withering of things isn't it like ⁓ my gosh how much time has passed look at all those lines Lynn: Yeah, yeah. And that's usually represented by female goddesses as well. Yeah, this mother maiden crone idea. Amelie: I was, think. I do agree with that. think was just thinking in a sense of like how, so when it comes the kind of people that ⁓ were, know, like it was that of, you they ⁓ came up with all planets and Luigi: Mm. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Amelie: this is what they kind of gave to the planet, which I just find it really interesting. And that's why sometimes brain battles with. Lynn: Yeah, Amelie: with like the concept. it's like the, ⁓ you don't, it's like you say, you don't want to be like canceled, right? But actually, who cares? I've been canceled so many times at this point. ⁓ it's like, so don't want to like, yeah, ⁓ you don't, don't want to kind of like go against someone that studied for, you know, so many years and whatever, whatever. Luigi: with understanding. Lynn: You Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: But at the same time, I have to question these aspects because, well, if these men came up with, you this is the planet for this and that and this is quite... then it yeah. Luigi: Of course! Lynn: Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Lynn: It's interesting fresh ideas, which is kind of lacking in female planets out there, to be honest. mean, what how many female planets do we have? We have Venus. it's like we Venus ⁓ and moon. like there be ⁓ Hera or or, you know, there are so many. I mean, are other female goddesses, but they're not they're not the planet. They're the now. Luigi: I think, yeah. Adriana: I was thinking about which one are females. Venus. Luigi: And the Well, the moon. ⁓ Adriana: Moon, yes. Amelie: But it's not a planet though. Adriana: Well, after building, yeah. No, no. Lynn: So. Luigi: to say though, if it's any consolidation or any comfort, ⁓ questioning and reflection ⁓ acknowledged by many luminaries. ⁓ one of my favorites that I just finished a beautiful book by, like the divine Rachel Pollack, May You Rest In Power. She acknowledge this ⁓ in of her writings, like ⁓ that confusing, that's because it is. That ⁓ is confusing, that's because it is confusing. ⁓ It's when Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Luigi: an individual that has, what's the word I'm looking for, that has inspired and contributed so much to this field, at least in our century, our living time, our knowledge is that, yeah, this is completely valid, like the questioning, the complexity of it, the paradoxical aspect of it. So yeah, think we can all rest assured that it's not like a puzzle, because I was kind of... Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Luigi: compare the three principles and ideas to a puzzle, but it's not possible because it's not something that just fits in that particular shapes alone. ⁓ a, it's more like a Rubik's cube obviously ideally want to get all the faces of the same color. But what I'm talking about is the way that how everything can shapes and shift, ⁓ shift, but ultimately in a Adriana: Hmm. Lynn: Mm. ⁓ Mm. Luigi: specific rhythm and movement parameters, but also with unpredictability. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: I think especially for people that are interested in incorporating the tarot with the tree or the tree with the tarot, vice versa, I think it's just spending time with those three minor arcana, like the aces, the twos and the threes, and understand how they interact with one another. again, in the aces, apart from the hand that we can address, but I don't know if I want to get into it only because of time purposes, time constraints, but... Lynn: Mm. Saturn. Luigi: Again, yeah, Saturn, be now. ⁓ Again, the aces only have that particular, at in the Smith Deck, that particular hand, but they don't really have people in it, isn't it? Most of the minors of the mighty Smith Deck will have people. That's to reflect on, the lack of humans, ⁓ because though there is a hand, we don't necessarily know, I mean, we know because the four of us have done some reflection and studying and digging and workshopping, but. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Luigi: for the purpose of our audience, we don't necessarily know if it's a human hand or not. So that's something to sit with, the aspect of, again, I'm gonna use the word nature, but I think the word nature applies more to Chokmah than does to Kether but the aspect of natural. Yeah, you know, like the principles of society, the principle of human experience are not there, are not in the aces. There are simply principles of, Adriana: potentiality. Yeah. Luigi: the natural world, but the natural world can also include the astral, the ethereal and the cosmic world, not necessarily just the physical, but obviously also Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: So like in quantum terms, it's like the field of all probabilities. Yeah. Okay. Luigi: Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. Whether the twos, obviously now the twos start having people in it in the Smith deck. And I think in the Chokmah and the Tarot, when we bring the twos of the Minor Arcana in the conversation, we explore that nature. But nature also as in the nature of the element itself. So if people are already familiar with the principles of the elements and their correspondence to the Minor Arcana suit. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: that being the cups, the wands, the swords and the pentacles and their correspondence to water, air and earth. Then you look at the natural or at the nature of the individual element ⁓ and given to you the essence and that's given to you visually in the Smith and still in the Toth but in the Toth there is a little bit more of a... Adriana: Yeah. Lynn: the essence basically like what yeah or what they ⁓ Mm. Adriana: us. Luigi: Well, yes, the Toth is definitely an abstract deck, but obviously Crowley follows the Golden Dawn principles the titles, he includes titles in his own deck, so you also have that to work with in the Toth deck, whether the Smith purely relies on images. Lynn: edit. Adriana: So we say the Sephiroth they are the element of fire, but all the elements are in it because all the tools are there, all the trees are there. So all the elements are in each Sephiroth Luigi: Yeah, because obviously there are four, like we might have discussed this previously, we might have mentioned this at the beginning, but in case we didn't, there are the four worlds. So depending how you approach the four worlds, the four Kabbalistic worlds of the Tree of Life, represent again the four elements, you have, depending on, because sometimes people view it, so there's two versions. You either have four different trees, which are from each other, or you have four different trees. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: unfolding within each other. So ⁓ it would be very difficult for me to explain it with words. I will need a visual. But basically one version is tree, tree, tree, tree, like in a scaeux system. And the version that unfolds, the tree is within the tree, is within the tree, within the tree. But yeah, to your point, it's basically saying that the Sephirah of Chokmah by the Golden Dawn has been given the rulership of fire. Adriana: Okay. Luigi: because we are exploring the Tarot Minor Arcana, we are exploring all the elements and how they interact with the kingdom of Chokmah and fire. ⁓ that be a very powerful reflection when it comes to explore the element of fire itself, like the wands, the two wands. And in Binah, whether we explore the nature aspect in Chokmah, in Binah there is again, I'll use the word again, but even comprehension. Adriana: Okay. Luigi: in the comprehension of that element. So again, we start to. Adriana: And Binah, what element is Binah? Water. Luigi: water. So according to the Golden Dawn, least principles and tradition, Binah, he's corresponding to the element of water. And in that we look the comprehension of the element. ⁓ I mean, to you. no, nothing. It's even void. It's everything, know, like Kether is again the primal mobile. Lynn: Thank Adriana: Ketaree? Air? No? It's nothing? Lynn: The void, the nothing, light. Luigi: as we say slang of the craft. I would give an element to Kether. However, the middle spiritual pillar be a pillar that corresponds to the element of air. But not stopping anybody from giving an element to Kether if they choose to. But for the principle of delivering concrete information based on our own Lynn: You Adriana: Go. Yes. Luigi: studies and experiences and education and journeys, I will not give an element to Kether, but we are welcome to give fire to Chokmah and water to Binah. Adriana: So our question, if we made like the tree of life spread, you know, and we get a two or a three in Binah or Chesed, Chokmah, means that the element, it will be stronger because it's in this Binah, because fire be stronger, you know, so, okay. Luigi: Mmm. Most likely. Yeah, most likely. That's something to take notice of. For certain. Adriana: So that's how we can interpret it while doing a spread of the Tree of Life. If the element is there and the number, it will be a stronger possibility that the card is the most influential one. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, yeah, I will definitely say so. And this brings me back to something that Amelie, or maybe even yourself, Adriana, that you guys pointed out. Like, it gets more complicated when you put planets and and ⁓ all jazz into the formula. But I the power of it is how an individual can ⁓ use it to patterns within their own natal chart, as well as their own journey through life. obviously I'll be lying if I didn't share that I had an abundance of Binah energy in my in my meditations, in my life journeys. And again, me being a Capricorn, I am what I like call a child of Binah, Saturn being the ruler Capricorns and so forth. So even though it gets complex and paradoxical and controversial, In my experience, he has definitely helped me a lot and I can only hope that he will help other people as well. Lynn: thank you for that enlightening always. we get our card of the day? ⁓ Yes, from... ⁓ Adriana: Cut! Luigi: Yeah, I wonder if it's a supernal card Amelie: Anybody wants to Luigi: Is he a superno car by any chance Amelie? He would be lovely if was ⁓ gosh Amelie: It's definitely not. Lynn: Haha, right. No, it is ⁓ He does Luigi: Okay. Amelie: By maybe you can guess what it could be. Adriana: I made your option. Lynn: it ⁓ minor? It's a minor. Then it's a ten. Is it a ten? It's a ten. ⁓ It's a Malkuth. ⁓ it's the least Kether, then it's the ten of disks. But it's least Kether possible. ⁓ I think it is. Amelie: No. It's a minor, and it's definitely not a supernone card. Yes. Adriana: Okay. ⁓ wow! Luigi: ⁓ Wait wait wait what tan what tan is it though what tan is it? Amelie: That's why I said it's definitely not. Luigi: Yeah, but I have a feeling that it's the TennoCaps. Adriana: No. Amelie: No. No, because you lack water. So, yes, the 10 of wands. ⁓ is the 10 of wands. Lynn: I'm going for 10 of wands. Yes. You like you like the wands. Yeah, and there's a Adriana: Ten of wands. ⁓ wonderful. Luigi: Wow. Adriana: but it makes a lot of sense. Luigi: So that's very interesting because, full disclosure, you know that I have my practice of choosing a spiritual guardian or guide for sabbaths of the Wheel of the Year for the pagan tradition. The Ten of Wands is my guardian for the current sabbath, so I'm happy to see it. ⁓ Lynn: True. Yes. Amelie: Yes. Lynn: Oh, you were in the card. This is for you. Adriana: ⁓ god. So that's it for me. But to me... Luigi: Well, I mean, it can be for all of us. I just made a connection. Amelie: I've been... Adriana: But for me, the thing is, have made, you know, me, the ten is Malkuth it's reality, know, so it's grounding things. And that's what we have done. What we have done that today. Amelie: Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Lynn: You pulled it in Mmm. Mmm. Amelie: This is what I was thinking too. I was thinking too. I felt like, I felt like this card came up just because of the balance in what we were talking about. Cause we were talking about, you know, the highest, highest Sephiroth's and this kind of like says, well, you know, there's a balance and is where you are. You're talking about this and what comes after this. We go up again. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Mmm, yes. Lynn: And we were talking so much and we were talking so much about Saturn. It is and it is a Saturn card. Luigi: Yeah. Yeah, and the Saturn rules the 10... Binah. But, in fact, do know what I was gonna say? I was gonna say that in a way the 10 of Wands perfectly expresses us in a way. Because I think it's got the Sagittarian aspect which will be connected to the Temperance or Art card that Amelie is very fond of. It's got the... Exactly. And it's got the Binah aspect or the Saturnian aspect that... Amelie: Yes. Adriana: Hahaha! Lynn: Mm-hmm Amelie: I love it. Luigi: rules me and I'm passionate about. But again, the connection to Sagittarius has got that lunar aspect that we know has been following, not just the lunar, but the 9 wands, that's been following you a little bit Lynn. ⁓ And then ⁓ all the wands, all the chasing you around. Lynn: got all the wands. ⁓ Amelie: All the wands are following you, every single one. Lynn: Some more than others, but yeah. Luigi: Yeah. Yeah. And similar to me. Amelie: Yeah, you always get wands. Lynn is a lot of wands, Luigi gets a lot of cups. Lynn: I guess. Adriana: I get a lot of coins. Luigi: That's true, you've been drawing pentacles recently all the time. Amelie: ⁓ that's great actually. Lynn: Oh yeah, yes lately, yes it's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah. Adriana: Yes, Yeah. Luigi: And I guess this also with the 10 of wands because we have that earthly energy with the energy. It's perhaps also telling us to pace ourselves and pace the audience, ⁓ is listening, because these are all complex ideas and principles, and subjects. It's not something that one episode of Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Luigi: about it will be like, ⁓ now I ⁓ everything. Now I got it. It's fine. ⁓ Because there is that element of pause here. You shall go no further for now. Because it's something that you need to lay down. Lynn: Mm. Yeah Yeah, it can easily it can easily get overwhelming Yeah, yeah, and it can easily get overwhelming if you just you know take in or try to take in all of it at once It's just it's just gotta be too much like you get you get your famous burnout Burnout Amelie: Yeah, because you have... Yeah, there's so much information you've got in the bag now. Sorry. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Speaking of ⁓ overwhelming... Yeah, speaking of overwhelming... Adriana: But of ⁓ ⁓ a lot of quantity, it? It's quality as well. We have given you a ⁓ of things to work around, so now you have to do the homework. ⁓ Lynn: We're burning! Luigi: Yeah, and speaking of overwhelming, I was fortunate enough to teach a class on Saturday, which was a beautiful experience, but at the very beginning, because I was just going like a train and I was not being stopped by anyone. I was just going like, oh, I guess silence. We say in Italian, silence is consent, which is something that we need to review, I suppose. But basically, I know, I know, I know. Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: Yes, yes, yes. Be careful with that. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, ⁓ god, ⁓ yeah, oof, yeah. This we have to renew, yeah. have the same, we have the same one. Yeah, silence is golden. Yeah. ⁓ Luigi: So we need to review that. But I was just going like a train and then eventually awakened this amount of messages saying, this is too much. I do not know if I can comprehend all of this. And we had to stop, pause, slow down, regress a little bit. It was a whole process. yeah, it was just very 10 of wands energy even then, that and then beautiful experience. Adriana: you Lynn: Woo. Mmm. Mmm. Adriana: Yeah, that was beautiful. Yeah, no, fascinated with all of these and yes, that I saw, sometimes I you probably very basic questions about, you know, the relationship with the sephiroth and the tarot cards how you can relate to these kind of things and how can you evolve because we have to it in practice. us, how they work for us, how can we interpret, how can we evolve with the tree, you know, ⁓ different ways. ⁓ Yeah. Lynn: How can we use it? It's not just a pretty picture to look at, It's not just a system. It's something that has a meaning or you can use it, you know, or use it, but you can, you know, employ it and, you know, for your life. You can look at it. Yes, it's very pretty. I like this one so much. It's just like, have like a, I have a, yeah, yes, I have a poster version of it as well. It's just very... Luigi: ⁓ no. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: Although I can look at it for hours to be honest. Adriana: ⁓ that is beautiful. I love it. Lynn: colorful and beautiful and... Yeah, know. Adriana: this is so beautiful. It is a beautiful thing anyway. ⁓ if it is a pen of wands, know, that is Yes, it is a lot. Yes, we can take years to study it. Lynn: Hmm, yes. ⁓ yeah. Luigi: But it does include... Yeah, and does include... The beautiful thing about receiving a 10 is that even though we've been speaking about the supernals, the 10 has included all the sephiroth of the tree, isn't it? So it's giving us all of them. Lynn: you Yeah, yeah. Everything in one. So it didn't, the deck didn't quite get the message that we were just gonna work with the supernals today. Right, right, right. Adriana: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Amelie: Yes. Yes. Luigi: Or the deck was telling us, the spirit realm was telling us maybe you should start from me next Adriana: I can't. You know, there's mythical principles. Amelie: Maybe the spirits were a little bit angry that we didn't do everything hinted. Lynn: ⁓ Luigi: ⁓ yeah, they were like, why are you stopping now? Keep going. We want to continue the subscription. Adriana: you Lynn: I get the opposite vibes, it's like stop now. It's enough, okay. well thanks again for joining and listening. Please, if you like it, always, drop a comment, give us a thumbs up subscribe and see you. Luigi: Ha got that as well. Lynn: in the next rabbit hole. night everybody! Adriana: Goodbye! Love! Bye bye! Amelie: Bye.