Transcript

Manhattan · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the pick Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
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Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
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Speaker 1: In best start changing it with the beck del cast. Hi,
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Speaker 1: welcome to the backdel cast. Already sounds so excited. I
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Speaker 1: guess this isn't really so uh bonus episode alert. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: we're doing an episode that's and it's a bonus, but
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Speaker 1: it's it's grim. It's a grim. It's a grim bonus.
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Speaker 1: It's it's still the scariest month of the year, true
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Speaker 1: and truly the news has been proving it is the
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Speaker 1: scariest month of the year. So we are doing a
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Speaker 1: bonus episode. Obviously, if you're cooking on it, you know
0:45
Speaker 1: what it's about about the nine Woody Allen movie Manhattan,
0:50
Speaker 1: And why have we chosen to do this movie? I
0:54
Speaker 1: mean we really dug deep inside. No, we literally woke
0:57
Speaker 1: up and looked at the screens that we sleep next to,
1:00
Speaker 1: and it said that, you know, everything is a nightmare,
1:02
Speaker 1: which we knew Harry Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, dozens
1:07
Speaker 1: of others. Right, it's been it's been, I mean obviously
1:11
Speaker 1: a deeply traveling a couple of weeks. For all the
1:14
Speaker 1: allegations that are coming out, it's it's very positive that
1:18
Speaker 1: they're being brought out to the world. But it's hard, right,
1:23
Speaker 1: especially because the victims who are coming forward are perceiving
1:27
Speaker 1: some backlash, especially Woody Allen saying things like, oh, I
1:32
Speaker 1: don't support what Harvey Weinstein did, but you know, let's
1:38
Speaker 1: not start a witch hunt, you know, which hunts those
1:42
Speaker 1: things that men used to do to women for no
1:46
Speaker 1: reason other than they were threatened by women existing in
1:51
Speaker 1: the world around them. Right, So we thought it would
1:57
Speaker 1: be perhaps useful to look back on an example of
2:02
Speaker 1: a very predatory movie made by an allegedly very predatory
2:08
Speaker 1: person and talk about it, because it is wild watching
2:13
Speaker 1: this movie now came out what thirty eight years ago
2:16
Speaker 1: now is while watching this movie and ever thinking that
2:20
Speaker 1: this was, like this is amazing, Like this isn't a
2:24
Speaker 1: hard movie to watch at all. Right. I saw it
2:27
Speaker 1: for the first time probably in college, probably around ten
2:29
Speaker 1: years ago, and that was the only time I had
2:32
Speaker 1: seen it, But I didn't remember even what it was about.
2:35
Speaker 1: I didn't remember that a forty two year old man
2:38
Speaker 1: was in a relationship with a seventeen year old girl.
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Speaker 1: I just didn't remember that that's what the story was
2:45
Speaker 1: because ten years ago, you know, I guess I just wasn't.
2:48
Speaker 1: I mean, I probably was like, oh, that's that's weird,
2:51
Speaker 1: and then I just forgot about it. Whereas today, well,
2:53
Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of work is done
2:55
Speaker 1: by the movie itself to really glaze over any problems
3:00
Speaker 1: that are there where I mean, we'll get into that too,
3:03
Speaker 1: where no one at the movie really raises a stink
3:06
Speaker 1: other than a passing joke at the fact that their
3:08
Speaker 1: crimes happening in front of them. So I think that
3:11
Speaker 1: the world Woody Allen creates, and I mean, we weren't
3:15
Speaker 1: alive for it, but it seems like the general society
3:19
Speaker 1: at that time did not point stuff like this out,
3:21
Speaker 1: and so the movie doesn't point it out, and that's bad.
3:25
Speaker 1: I first saw this movie in college as well, but
3:27
Speaker 1: it did bother me quite a bit because I saw
3:30
Speaker 1: this movie. This would have been the Lateen, which is
3:34
Speaker 1: when allegations about Woody Allen were first starting to surface,
3:37
Speaker 1: like really exploded in early but late there was rumblings
3:43
Speaker 1: and I had to take a class to graduate school
3:47
Speaker 1: and so I ended up having to take this class
3:49
Speaker 1: about Charlie Kaufman, Woody Allen, and Billy Wilder films. So
3:54
Speaker 1: we had to watch a lot of Woody Allen films,
3:56
Speaker 1: and I recall not liking them, not doing well in
4:00
Speaker 1: the class, and getting in trouble for specifically being like,
4:05
Speaker 1: this is gross. Why is he fucking a kid? Like
4:08
Speaker 1: that in particularly got me in trouble at that class. See.
4:10
Speaker 1: I So I took a directing class because you know,
4:13
Speaker 1: I did go to film school twice, and I was
4:19
Speaker 1: given like the script to a scene in Manhattan to
4:23
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, let's see how you would direct this.
4:25
Speaker 1: And it's the scene between Woody Allen's character and Tracy's character,
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Speaker 1: the seventeen year old girl kidding, the one we're they're
4:33
Speaker 1: in bed and he has just moved into his new
4:35
Speaker 1: apartment and he was talking about like the water being
4:37
Speaker 1: brown and the noises from the his neighbors and stuff
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Speaker 1: like that, and like at the time, I was just like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I'll just direct this scene. Like it didn't really occur
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Speaker 1: to me, like how gross and problematic, And that was
4:53
Speaker 1: a school assignment, Like that's great. Yeah, I mean I
4:56
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I what was my professor thinking. I
4:58
Speaker 1: had literally had no choic but to watch these money
5:01
Speaker 1: or I couldn't graduate. Like it's just great. And also
5:05
Speaker 1: I I not to say this was a benefit in
5:07
Speaker 1: any way, but I was armed with a lot of
5:10
Speaker 1: a lot more information in latee of like this guy
5:14
Speaker 1: was basically being I mean not that there was no
5:17
Speaker 1: way to tell, as he had already married his daughter,
5:22
Speaker 1: but there there were serious allegations coming out, and it
5:25
Speaker 1: just felt wrong to be idolizing this work in anyway,
5:29
Speaker 1: especially when it's just like he he it's why he
5:32
Speaker 1: really is just laying it out in front of you
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Speaker 1: of like I'm a predator. I fun kids, I did,
5:37
Speaker 1: like you're just like he's unapologetic about it, and it's nuts.
5:41
Speaker 1: Not even unapologetically he's victimizing himself about like it's just okay.
5:46
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the movie. Manhattan comes out in
5:50
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine after Annie Hall, after he's sort of
5:54
Speaker 1: said that I guess we're doing this now, you know,
5:59
Speaker 1: or watching way Allen do the same fucking things. Great, Yeah,
6:03
Speaker 1: I'll do the recap. Manhattan is about a Woody Allen
6:08
Speaker 1: type character about one Allen. His character though, is named Isaac,
6:14
Speaker 1: and he is in a relationship with a seventeen year
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Speaker 1: old funny and everyone's like, wow, she's beautiful, and he's like,
6:23
Speaker 1: she's seventeen in public, she's in high school, she's seventeen.
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Speaker 1: Isn't this funny? Isn't this weird? And the characters responded
6:31
Speaker 1: by saying, yeah, that is weird, that is funny, where
6:34
Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, we weren't there in ninety nine.
6:38
Speaker 1: But I find it very hard to believe that there's
6:42
Speaker 1: two characters responding, oh, that is so weird, like it's
6:45
Speaker 1: just because it was a crime. Towards the end, she's like,
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Speaker 1: I turned eighteen, so I'm legal now, acknowledging that the
6:53
Speaker 1: sex they were having before was not legal, which it wasn't,
6:57
Speaker 1: and no one gave any shit about it. So not
7:01
Speaker 1: even the movie that, not even not even the characters
7:03
Speaker 1: in the movie who won And another straight white guy
7:06
Speaker 1: whose name eludes me at this it's Yale. No, like
7:10
Speaker 1: the co writer for the movie Marshall Brickman. Marshall Brickman,
7:14
Speaker 1: So they write this movie together. They're writing all these
7:17
Speaker 1: female characters, meaning they're directing, you know, like Diane Keaton's
7:21
Speaker 1: character who on paper and then I think several parts
7:25
Speaker 1: of the movie is a good character I would agree
7:27
Speaker 1: to given a background. And it's like, man, I hate
7:30
Speaker 1: that there's a good female character in this movie. But
7:33
Speaker 1: I mean, she has, she is armed with all the information,
7:36
Speaker 1: she is intelligent, she is she's very outspoken, very outspoken,
7:40
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to care, And it's like,
7:42
Speaker 1: how fucking convenient that you're very empowered female character just
7:48
Speaker 1: also doesn't seem to notice that you're fucking a kid.
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Speaker 1: And if she mentions it, mentions it as like so
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Speaker 1: weird that this is going on. At one point, so
7:56
Speaker 1: there's a character named Yale, which is what EN's character's
7:58
Speaker 1: best friend, and he's married to Emily. At one point,
8:01
Speaker 1: Emily says, oh no, I don't think seventeen is too young.
8:05
Speaker 1: That's like in the first fifteen roots of the movie.
8:07
Speaker 1: And I know, and to tell you you flame and
8:11
Speaker 1: hot trolls out there who were like the women in
8:13
Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, but that the women in the movie,
8:16
Speaker 1: those words weren't put there by a woman. They were
8:18
Speaker 1: put there by two men. So it's like these relatively
8:22
Speaker 1: realized female characters spouting nonsense like it's just yeah, sorry,
8:29
Speaker 1: I love how it worked up. We are It is
8:31
Speaker 1: infuriating movie watch at times, deeply uncomfortable. We laughed at
8:37
Speaker 1: two different parts and that was upsetting too. Were like,
8:40
Speaker 1: I hate that, I found that funny. I hate the chuckle.
8:43
Speaker 1: I hated it. It's just oh god, okay, anyway, so okay.
8:47
Speaker 1: So Isaac is dating a seventeen year old woman. His
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Speaker 1: friend Yale is married, but he starts seeing this woman,
8:54
Speaker 1: Mary played by Dan Dane Keaton. Woody Allen meets Mary
8:58
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I actually, I like there's another
9:04
Speaker 1: thing in here where it's It's like, oh, Wh're gonna
9:07
Speaker 1: forgive him for these hanous crimes he's committing because he's awkward. Again,
9:11
Speaker 1: the use of an awkward personality as an excuse to
9:14
Speaker 1: do fucking insane things. I'm gonna go ahead and coin
9:18
Speaker 1: the term stutter corps. This is a stutter corp movie.
9:21
Speaker 1: All Woody Allen movies are stutter corps, and which just
9:25
Speaker 1: is you can shave fifteen minutes off the top of
9:30
Speaker 1: the movie. Right. So he meets Mary and they get
9:35
Speaker 1: off to a rocky start, but then he starts to
9:37
Speaker 1: like Mary, and Mary starts to like him, so he's conflicted, Oh,
9:40
Speaker 1: do I stay with this seventeen year old girl or
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Speaker 1: do I hang out with Mary even though she's also
9:45
Speaker 1: dating my friend Yale. There's like kind of all this
9:48
Speaker 1: back and forth. He's writing a book, he's writing a book,
9:51
Speaker 1: he quits his job and is a writer. He's an artist,
9:54
Speaker 1: which comes into play later. He surrounds himself with affluent, white,
9:59
Speaker 1: fucking pretend just people, which is dumb, which I know,
10:03
Speaker 1: but it's very intentional what Woody Allen chooses to satirize
10:09
Speaker 1: in this movie and what he does not just satirize
10:11
Speaker 1: in this movie, because I think he is satirizing bullshit
10:15
Speaker 1: intellectualism quite a bit by being like, look at these people.
10:19
Speaker 1: They're so smart, threat museums and observatories and planetariums all
10:23
Speaker 1: the time, but they don't have it together. Like it's
10:26
Speaker 1: you know, he's commenting on that. The things he is
10:28
Speaker 1: not commenting on are just as glaring, such as he
10:33
Speaker 1: is sucking a kid. This is barely commented on, and
10:36
Speaker 1: and and in the way it's commented on. Tracy Mariel,
10:40
Speaker 1: Hemingway's character is being developed at the expense of the protagonist,
10:45
Speaker 1: which is like another continued I mean, I'm almost done.
10:50
Speaker 1: I don't really know what else happens. It's not an
10:52
Speaker 1: exciting movie. So at some point he breaks up with Tracy,
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Speaker 1: the seventeen year old girl. He starts to go in
11:02
Speaker 1: sort of full force with Mary in their relationship, and
11:06
Speaker 1: then Mary meanwhile it's like, actually I think I still
11:09
Speaker 1: love Yale. So she and Yale kind of get back
11:12
Speaker 1: to together, and then Woody Allen's character is like, well,
11:17
Speaker 1: I'm lonely, so I better go back the girl to
11:21
Speaker 1: the child. But here's a twist. She's not a child now.
11:25
Speaker 1: She's she's crazy having gas let her throughout the entire
11:31
Speaker 1: movie because she's like, why might want to go and
11:33
Speaker 1: study in London and he's like, yeah, you should. Actually
11:36
Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't be together you're young, but like not
11:40
Speaker 1: to any point where he's going to really do anything
11:43
Speaker 1: about it. And then at the end she's like, Okay,
11:45
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to London like you said I should,
11:47
Speaker 1: and he's like, actually, no, not on, I don't have
11:51
Speaker 1: anyone to validate me. And then she you know, but
11:55
Speaker 1: what a six month matter if we're in love, which
11:58
Speaker 1: is you know, a very eight, your old thing to say,
12:02
Speaker 1: and it ends with him like smiling, and we're like,
12:05
Speaker 1: oh yeah, maybe there's no there's never even the looming
12:11
Speaker 1: threat of a consequence for treating this situation where he does,
12:15
Speaker 1: for committing a crime over and over and over. It's
12:18
Speaker 1: openly discussed between the two characters. You can't even call
12:21
Speaker 1: it an open secret. It's not a secret. He's taking
12:24
Speaker 1: her out in public. We don't know that much about
12:27
Speaker 1: her parents or or where, nothing, nothing. I really know
12:31
Speaker 1: nothing about her character apart from her age and that
12:34
Speaker 1: she apparently is interested in acting. We're going abroad to
12:38
Speaker 1: study that, right, and she goes to high school. This
12:43
Speaker 1: this trope we've talked about before and it applies more
12:46
Speaker 1: to sci fi characters generally, but it did want to
12:49
Speaker 1: bring up the born Sexy Yesterday and that with Tracy
12:54
Speaker 1: and Isaac. It's like this dynamic and what we sort
12:58
Speaker 1: of are led to believe as a feeling about it
13:00
Speaker 1: for ISAA because that he's teaching this girl, he's teaching
13:03
Speaker 1: her intellectually, he's teaching her, teaching her, he's raping her,
13:09
Speaker 1: but he's teaching her sexually or that's his impression or whatever.
13:14
Speaker 1: Just the fact that there's there's no point in the
13:16
Speaker 1: movie where it's brought up as anything but a funny thing.
13:20
Speaker 1: It is never addressed it as a crime. It's indirectly
13:24
Speaker 1: addressed as a crime, where it's a joke that she's
13:27
Speaker 1: legal now, and there's no there's no threat that he
13:31
Speaker 1: will receive any punishment, and in fact he doesn't and
13:34
Speaker 1: he still has it. So great for Woody Allen funk Off.
13:39
Speaker 1: I was at a bar last night and I was like, yeah,
13:42
Speaker 1: brag and I was like, oh, sorry, I'm late. I
13:46
Speaker 1: had to watch Manhattan. We're doing it tomorrow on my podcast,
13:50
Speaker 1: and my friends were like, what why, And I'm like, well,
13:54
Speaker 1: what better way to introduce all the fucking problematic ship
13:59
Speaker 1: that's happening in Hollywood right now and that has always
14:02
Speaker 1: been happening. Then a widely regarded movie where a major
14:06
Speaker 1: platfoint is repeated. Rape. Amazing there for anyone who is like,
14:12
Speaker 1: but wait, okay, let's think top of the Dome cinematography. Sure, great,
14:18
Speaker 1: there's a seed in the planetarium where lights are used.
14:22
Speaker 1: George Gershwood very talented man, also deeply problematic. You can
14:26
Speaker 1: go into that Google hole yourself. New York a city
14:30
Speaker 1: that exists. The technical merits of this movie is not
14:36
Speaker 1: what we're here to discuss. So if that's where you're
14:40
Speaker 1: coming from in terms of like, but the rapes look
14:42
Speaker 1: so good, uh no, funk off enjoy your life. Also,
14:48
Speaker 1: I don't like this movie, Like it's not it's I
14:51
Speaker 1: hate I hate it, say I haven't. I have a
14:55
Speaker 1: deep mistrust for anyone who's like, yeah, Manhattan's a great film.
15:00
Speaker 1: Got goodbye. We have to we have to be going.
15:04
Speaker 1: So we've discussed Tracy is obviously the glaring, major, major,
15:09
Speaker 1: major issue in this movie. But the other two main
15:12
Speaker 1: female characters are Mary, Diane Keaton's character and Jill, who
15:17
Speaker 1: is Woody Allen's second ex wife. Correct, I didn't mention
15:20
Speaker 1: her in the recap. She's played by Meryl Street and
15:23
Speaker 1: she's depicted as this like greed true character. So the
15:30
Speaker 1: plot point there is if, unless I'm mistaken, she is
15:33
Speaker 1: writing a memoir about her Mary what a shitty partner
15:38
Speaker 1: Woody Allen was like, I tell all kind of memoir thing.
15:41
Speaker 1: She is also now living with her girlfriend and raising
15:46
Speaker 1: Woody Allen's son. That's she has primary custody of Woody
15:50
Speaker 1: Allen's and her son, and Woody Allen is very uncomfortable
15:55
Speaker 1: with two women raising his son, which is brought up
15:59
Speaker 1: as a joke, and sort of there's the scene we
16:02
Speaker 1: see like one longish scene between Isaac and the Sun
16:08
Speaker 1: where you mentined he hits his Sun as his son
16:12
Speaker 1: because his sons trying to get his dad to buy
16:14
Speaker 1: him like a toy boat, very pointing to the bigger,
16:18
Speaker 1: more expensive one, and then Woody Allen just like strikes
16:21
Speaker 1: him in the head. So there's that, And then in
16:25
Speaker 1: the next cut there at some sort of it's a
16:28
Speaker 1: rest restaurant and Isaac is saying like, oh we could,
16:31
Speaker 1: like you know, basically presents his son with like I
16:35
Speaker 1: know you're being raised by two women, but don't forget
16:38
Speaker 1: about toxic masculine. It like it's just where he talks
16:42
Speaker 1: about picking up women as like a joke to his kid. Yeah,
16:46
Speaker 1: he's like, if you were quicker, we could have picked
16:48
Speaker 1: those women up, just you know, teaching him just like
16:51
Speaker 1: fucking creep t he Also, it doesn't take too much
16:56
Speaker 1: of a leap to say that Woody Allen is kind
16:58
Speaker 1: of villainizing Jill Meryl Streep's characters sexuality as well. He's
17:05
Speaker 1: just saying like this shrewish gay woman, and it's also presented,
17:09
Speaker 1: and I thought this was interesting. I was reading Roger
17:12
Speaker 1: Ebert went back and watched this movie and had more
17:15
Speaker 1: come about it. In two thousand and one, he writes
17:19
Speaker 1: about this character specifically in a way that I think
17:22
Speaker 1: was weird, where he says Isaac's former wife Meryl Streep
17:25
Speaker 1: left him the live with a woman and writes the
17:26
Speaker 1: bestseller ridiculing her marriage and love life. We doubt her
17:29
Speaker 1: new relationship is sound if it leaves her so obsessed
17:32
Speaker 1: with the previous one. That is I mean, and I'm
17:36
Speaker 1: maybe that is how that reads to another straight white man,
17:42
Speaker 1: but that I mean, and I mean that's also just
17:45
Speaker 1: pure speculation because you don't see that much of their
17:47
Speaker 1: relationship on screen. But I think we are led to
17:50
Speaker 1: believe that. You know, it's like, well, Jill can't get
17:53
Speaker 1: over it, and she's trying to capitalize on what a
17:55
Speaker 1: shitty partner he was and now she dates a woman
17:59
Speaker 1: where I feel almost the implication is Woody Allen was
18:03
Speaker 1: such a bad husband that he turned her gay. That
18:06
Speaker 1: was what I took away. That's sort of how he
18:09
Speaker 1: I think he can character. Yeah, I think that that's
18:12
Speaker 1: what the movie thinks, you know, regardless of the integrity
18:16
Speaker 1: of this character, who deserved better. I don't know. I
18:20
Speaker 1: mean and and that is an individual's read. But I
18:22
Speaker 1: think the fact that a professional movie critics read was like,
18:26
Speaker 1: well she was so she's still so hung up on him.
18:29
Speaker 1: It's like, you can't conflate trauma with being in love,
18:35
Speaker 1: right and still being hung Like being angry about someone
18:38
Speaker 1: abusing you does not equal she's still in love with him, Like,
18:42
Speaker 1: but I think that that is what the movie would
18:44
Speaker 1: have you believe in that bobble Well, I made a
18:47
Speaker 1: list of all the things, or not even I probably
18:50
Speaker 1: didn't even hit all of them, but many of this
18:52
Speaker 1: you have a comprehensive list, Let's not sure, but I'm
18:56
Speaker 1: saying that there were so many that I probably missed.
18:58
Speaker 1: Some says this is such a fucking against stutter core
19:01
Speaker 1: movie that I can't even not to shame people with stutters.
19:05
Speaker 1: She was stutter shaming. No stutter shaming here, I'm just
19:08
Speaker 1: saying that Woody Allen should fall off the edge of
19:12
Speaker 1: the planet. So I made a list of all the
19:15
Speaker 1: things that he says either to or about women in
19:19
Speaker 1: the movie. The first one is he's talking to Tracy.
19:24
Speaker 1: This is after she's like, I think I'm in love
19:26
Speaker 1: with you for the first time pretty early on in
19:27
Speaker 1: the movie, and he says, don't get carried away, you're
19:30
Speaker 1: a kid. As long as the cops don't burst in,
19:32
Speaker 1: we're going to break a couple of records. And then
19:35
Speaker 1: later he's like, get dressed, like I'm going to fund
19:37
Speaker 1: a kid more than anyone who ever a kid, Jesus Christ.
19:41
Speaker 1: And then he's like, get dressed because you've got to
19:43
Speaker 1: get out of here. I don't want you to be
19:44
Speaker 1: comfortable here. You can't stay here, right does all he
19:47
Speaker 1: can to make Tracy's character not feel like she is
19:51
Speaker 1: a permanent fixture in his life totally. That And this
19:54
Speaker 1: is like sort of the beginning of him gaslighting her
19:56
Speaker 1: because constantly throughout the movie he's saying, you're too young,
19:59
Speaker 1: you don't under stand what love is, because she keeps
20:01
Speaker 1: being like, I love you. She literally says over and over,
20:04
Speaker 1: take me, seriously, listen to me. But and then he's
20:09
Speaker 1: just like, you're not old enough, Like you don't know
20:11
Speaker 1: what love is, You're too young. Yeah, that, but that
20:13
Speaker 1: criticism has never turned inward of like maybe this is
20:16
Speaker 1: the wrong thing to be doing, because it ends with
20:19
Speaker 1: maybe I we'll get to fund this kid again, like okay, sorry, continuous.
20:24
Speaker 1: Later he says to Jill, his ex wife Meryl Streep,
20:27
Speaker 1: of the two of us, I was not the immoral, psychotic,
20:30
Speaker 1: promiscuous one. Oh is that a reference to her sexuality?
20:35
Speaker 1: I think probably so excellent? Later on to Tracy, and
20:40
Speaker 1: this is after she's like, oh, you know, maybe people
20:42
Speaker 1: aren't meant to just like be with one person forever.
20:45
Speaker 1: It's kind of gone out of date. Again, more gasline,
20:47
Speaker 1: because he's like, don't you tell me what's gone out
20:49
Speaker 1: of date. You're seventeen. You were brought up on drugs
20:52
Speaker 1: television in the pill gas lighting bullettling her experience. He
20:56
Speaker 1: knows Benner because he has less hair. And then after
21:01
Speaker 1: this is after he meets Mary, he says about her,
21:04
Speaker 1: what a creep. She was overbearing, she was terrible, she
21:07
Speaker 1: was all cerebral. If she said one more thing about Bergmann,
21:10
Speaker 1: I would have knocked her other contact lens out. So
21:14
Speaker 1: I don't like that she's smart. I want to hit her. Okay,
21:18
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just talk to translate. Please, this is
21:21
Speaker 1: this is good. Shortly After that, he says about Jill,
21:25
Speaker 1: I got a divorce because my ex wife left me
21:27
Speaker 1: for another woman. Mary says, that must have been really demoralizing.
21:31
Speaker 1: Isaac says, I tried to run them both over with
21:34
Speaker 1: a car. Mary says, that's incredible sexual humiliation. And I
21:38
Speaker 1: think that's enough to turn you off of women, which
21:41
Speaker 1: I found to be a very bizarre scene because Mary
21:44
Speaker 1: has been set up and later on the movie continues
21:47
Speaker 1: to be the smartest and most rational in her thinking
21:51
Speaker 1: and all of that. But because this character was written
21:55
Speaker 1: by two men, she's just reinforcing what what he Alan
22:00
Speaker 1: actually thinks, which was, Yeah, for me to have been
22:02
Speaker 1: left by a woman for another woman, how humiliating. Well,
22:06
Speaker 1: I think I think that this is sort of something
22:09
Speaker 1: that comes up in a lot of Woody Allen's movies
22:13
Speaker 1: where I wish I had a snappier title for it.
22:16
Speaker 1: But a feminist character written by a man, So not
22:20
Speaker 1: really a feminist character, but one that in appearance and behavior,
22:26
Speaker 1: in profession, there's enough there that you're just like, oh,
22:30
Speaker 1: you know, like you you would trust Diane Keaton's character,
22:33
Speaker 1: but she's still being written by a villain basically, and
22:38
Speaker 1: so when she glosses over the fact that when Allen's kid,
22:42
Speaker 1: when she glosses over villainizing queer people. As an audience member,
22:49
Speaker 1: you know, if you're not you know, you're sort of
22:50
Speaker 1: being told don't think about it. The character you trust
22:53
Speaker 1: thinks that, you know, queer people's lives don't matter either,
22:58
Speaker 1: and and stupid people with no critical thing skills would
23:00
Speaker 1: just be like, yeah, great, right, or people who have
23:05
Speaker 1: not encountered alternate ways of thinking. Because Woody Allens, all
23:09
Speaker 1: of his work is, We're told, is so intellectual and
23:12
Speaker 1: so smart that it's like, where are you supposed to
23:15
Speaker 1: be questioning? Where you not supposed to be questioning? He
23:18
Speaker 1: directs your focus in very deliberate ways and also directs
23:20
Speaker 1: your focus away. Okay, translation, I tried to kill gay
23:25
Speaker 1: people who hurt my feelings. Response. That sucks for you,
23:32
Speaker 1: and I can understand why you would have done that.
23:34
Speaker 1: I get it, would have done the same thing myself.
23:38
Speaker 1: Fuck that. Moving on later on, he says to Mary, well,
23:43
Speaker 1: first Mary is talking about Tracy and she's like sixteen
23:46
Speaker 1: years old, no possible threat at all. Isaac says, she's seventeen.
23:51
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you have a losing personality Mary, what
23:55
Speaker 1: do you want. I'm honest, I say what's on my mind,
23:57
Speaker 1: and if you can't take it, then funk off. I
24:00
Speaker 1: I like the way you express yourself too. It's pithy
24:03
Speaker 1: yet degenerate. You get many dates, I don't think so.
24:06
Speaker 1: A very witty exchange in which women being smart is
24:11
Speaker 1: stupid and people calling Woody Allen out on his bullshit
24:14
Speaker 1: is stupid. Yeah, there's more. Don't worry. This is about Jill.
24:21
Speaker 1: He's talking to Mary. He says, my son is being
24:24
Speaker 1: raised by two women. Mary says, I've read studies you
24:27
Speaker 1: don't need a man to Mothers are absolutely fine. Isaac says,
24:31
Speaker 1: I feel very few people survive one mother. Uh, this
24:35
Speaker 1: is what Allen saying. Probably something happened to me a
24:38
Speaker 1: very long time ago that was emasculating, and now for
24:41
Speaker 1: the next sixty plus years, I will take it out
24:45
Speaker 1: on any woman I come into contact. Yes, and then
24:50
Speaker 1: again about his mother. Later on, Isaac says, I wrote
24:53
Speaker 1: a short story about my mother, the castrating Zionist. This
24:58
Speaker 1: is what he Allen saying. I'm trying to make this
25:01
Speaker 1: seem like a fun Jewish caricature, but what it actually
25:05
Speaker 1: is is I hate every woman I've ever met. All
25:09
Speaker 1: these exchanges, by the way, happened in the first half
25:12
Speaker 1: hour of the movie. Yeah, and then this, So this
25:16
Speaker 1: is when I got very frustrated and maybe stopped paying
25:18
Speaker 1: as close attention. But there's a few more later to jail.
25:20
Speaker 1: He is gaslighting her and saying I did not try
25:25
Speaker 1: to run you and your lover over with my car,
25:28
Speaker 1: even though he's exactly and she's like, well, what were
25:32
Speaker 1: you doing by the cabin anyway? And he's like, I
25:35
Speaker 1: was flying on you. Uh, there's no there's no words.
25:41
Speaker 1: I think he just he just really hit the nail
25:43
Speaker 1: on the head on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no
25:45
Speaker 1: translation needed. We talked about this one. We talked about
25:48
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, that was the one where he's next
25:50
Speaker 1: to two women in the restaurant and he's explaining to
25:52
Speaker 1: his son how they should have picked them up and
25:54
Speaker 1: fletched them. You know, his son a six year old boy,
25:59
Speaker 1: and and like and honestly again hate hers. It is
26:03
Speaker 1: written as a joke, but I would argue that that
26:06
Speaker 1: is just as much of a problem that he's like, hey,
26:09
Speaker 1: here's a terrible way to think about women, and then like, well,
26:12
Speaker 1: winky to the audience. Like this is funny. He's never
26:15
Speaker 1: going to learn, like is that funny? And then later
26:22
Speaker 1: on to Jill, this is after her book has come
26:25
Speaker 1: out about their relationship. He opens the door and says,
26:29
Speaker 1: I came here to strangle you. Well, sure, very funny,
26:33
Speaker 1: great joke. Um. So the three main characters, Tracy is
26:40
Speaker 1: just told like, you're you're right. I didn't even realize
26:44
Speaker 1: how little we know about her other than she and
26:48
Speaker 1: she sometimes has exams which we which we are to believe,
26:51
Speaker 1: you know, probably Willy Alan's character doesn't know a lot
26:53
Speaker 1: about her either because they don't discuss parts of her
26:57
Speaker 1: life very often, or like he's never asked. Um. Then
27:02
Speaker 1: we have Diane Keaton's character, who is just maybe the
27:06
Speaker 1: most troubling of all because she's just a bunch of
27:09
Speaker 1: smoke and mirrors in terms of a fully realized female character.
27:12
Speaker 1: We're all, you know, all the all the elements are there,
27:15
Speaker 1: but it's hollow and rings, totally hollow and and it
27:19
Speaker 1: just sucks. Yeah. There are a few moments where I'm like, Okay,
27:23
Speaker 1: I'm glad that she did this thing or says this thing. Yeah,
27:26
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. Well, she there's a moment where
27:29
Speaker 1: she's talking to a director friend of hers, and he's
27:33
Speaker 1: talking about this movie he's directing about a man who's
27:36
Speaker 1: such a sexual dynamo. Anytime he brings a woman to orgasm,
27:41
Speaker 1: she dies. And she's just like, this is horrid. So
27:45
Speaker 1: she calls him out. She calls out Yale for saying like, oh,
27:50
Speaker 1: does your love for me always need to express itself sexually?
27:52
Speaker 1: Because he's all like, let's go to do a how
27:54
Speaker 1: talent fuck and well to be fair, really, and he
27:57
Speaker 1: says make love. Oh, He's sorry love anyways, And then
28:03
Speaker 1: she's just like, what about other values like warmth and
28:06
Speaker 1: spiritual contact? So she's like, value me in other way
28:09
Speaker 1: besides you being able to have sex with me make love?
28:14
Speaker 1: But again, I I feel these like which I agree
28:19
Speaker 1: that like, her character is right in all of these issues.
28:23
Speaker 1: But even though she sees the more aggressive behavior of
28:27
Speaker 1: men as something she doesn't want to deal with, the
28:30
Speaker 1: world totally writes out any of the predatory behaviors with
28:34
Speaker 1: the person that she. You know, with Woody Allen's character
28:37
Speaker 1: where okay, so this character is written to see very
28:41
Speaker 1: aggressive masculinity, you know where it's like when I fuck
28:45
Speaker 1: a woman, she comes so hard. She dies great, but
28:49
Speaker 1: but there's a total blind spot set up for that
28:51
Speaker 1: same character of someone she's close to fucking a kid.
28:57
Speaker 1: You know, Like it's just and that, and that's what
29:00
Speaker 1: traveling to be about it is with this, and I
29:03
Speaker 1: think it extends to a lot of like Woody Allen's
29:06
Speaker 1: female characters, even the very well written ones are the
29:09
Speaker 1: ones that are hailed as well written. He directs your
29:13
Speaker 1: focus in such a specific way, and I feel like
29:15
Speaker 1: these moments of like, oh, she's smart, she knows what
29:18
Speaker 1: she's talking about, they're put there very deliberately for for
29:22
Speaker 1: the sake of the story in the movie, but also
29:25
Speaker 1: so that you notice less when she's ignoring things. And
29:29
Speaker 1: that and her whole pursuit. I mean, she's working on
29:33
Speaker 1: things professionally, she's a journalist. We know what she does
29:35
Speaker 1: for a living. That's good. She's writing things, she's working
29:40
Speaker 1: on different projects, but her seems like her main pursuit
29:43
Speaker 1: throughout the whole movie is landing a man that she wants.
29:47
Speaker 1: You know, it's between Yale and Woody Allen's character, and
29:51
Speaker 1: she just keeps like going back and forth, and she
29:54
Speaker 1: keeps saying, like I saw better, but like she's trying
29:56
Speaker 1: to stand up for herself, but like, really she's insecure.
30:00
Speaker 1: But it blows down to like her pursuit in this movie.
30:03
Speaker 1: If you're just like looking at her character and her
30:05
Speaker 1: character's goals and what she's trying to achieve, it's romance.
30:09
Speaker 1: It's a romantic relationship, and it's I mean, sure, this
30:13
Speaker 1: is like a romantic movie where I mean with every
30:17
Speaker 1: character in this movie, every main character is bouncing between
30:22
Speaker 1: two people at least, But I think her character is
30:27
Speaker 1: is a little different in that the two male characters
30:31
Speaker 1: to Isaac and then Yale, which like, God, hit me up,
30:35
Speaker 1: we get it, he's smart, they both spend a lot
30:38
Speaker 1: of their movie trying to break up with women, where
30:42
Speaker 1: the women spend a lot of time in the movie
30:44
Speaker 1: trying to convince the man that they are worth staying with.
30:48
Speaker 1: That was what was more of an issue for me,
30:49
Speaker 1: because everyone it is going between multiple people, and I
30:52
Speaker 1: think that in theory, that's a part of the point
30:54
Speaker 1: of like, oh love is a cloak. But there are scenes.
30:58
Speaker 1: There's a scene between Yale and Mary where Mary is
31:01
Speaker 1: basically just like, no, this is fine, I'm totally fine,
31:03
Speaker 1: it's great, and then we sort of see her try
31:05
Speaker 1: to convince him that she's worth staying with, and in
31:08
Speaker 1: the end he does end up staying with her well,
31:11
Speaker 1: and then as soon as they break up, she bounces
31:14
Speaker 1: right back to right where they are each other's second
31:18
Speaker 1: choice pretty pretty decisively, which is whatever plot point, but
31:23
Speaker 1: that there's two different scenes where Wody on I mean
31:25
Speaker 1: Woody is trying to break up with Mariel Hemingway pretty
31:28
Speaker 1: much every single scene, and then she especially is constantly
31:32
Speaker 1: trying to convince listen to me, I these are the
31:36
Speaker 1: reasons that you should stay with me, and he's constantly
31:39
Speaker 1: trying to leave her. So even though it's like every
31:41
Speaker 1: character here's bouncing between multiple interests, there's never a pressure
31:46
Speaker 1: on the man to prove to the woman what his
31:49
Speaker 1: worth is. It's assumed that they have value, where the
31:52
Speaker 1: female characters are kind of constantly trying to prove themselves,
31:56
Speaker 1: which is not all surprising from a movie that is like,
31:59
Speaker 1: I mean, Woody Allen is the king of like self
32:01
Speaker 1: indulgent on the writer, director, actor, hero of my own
32:06
Speaker 1: stories every single time, and he makes a point to
32:09
Speaker 1: say like several times, and I'm sure you could argue
32:12
Speaker 1: that these are like these are the jokes. But he's like, look,
32:16
Speaker 1: how could I am fucking His character says it in
32:19
Speaker 1: this movie, and I'd imagine I think it's a joke.
32:21
Speaker 1: If Ryan Gosling says it, it's not a joke literally,
32:24
Speaker 1: like you know, not as stereotypically alpha male is constantly
32:28
Speaker 1: like it just doesn't read, especially if you're writing those
32:31
Speaker 1: lines for yourself, like it's a joke if someone writes
32:35
Speaker 1: that line for Woody Allen maybe, And there's also a
32:39
Speaker 1: few different There's like that scene with Mary where she's like,
32:42
Speaker 1: you have a pretty good sense of humor. He's like, well,
32:44
Speaker 1: you don't have to tell me that. I know that, right.
32:46
Speaker 1: He's like, I make a living off it. You dumb, right, right,
32:50
Speaker 1: And it was like but yeah, so anyways doing a
32:53
Speaker 1: faul like there's just like I'm great fun too. Yeah.
32:56
Speaker 1: There's no pressure on the male characters to prove themselves
32:59
Speaker 1: really any regard excellent point, and there's no consequences presented
33:04
Speaker 1: to them except that they won't get fucked. Those are
33:07
Speaker 1: the only consequences, right, There's no well there's a joke
33:11
Speaker 1: about going into jail, but that's never never a present threat.
33:16
Speaker 1: Another female character, I wanted to talk about who doesn't
33:19
Speaker 1: get much screen time at all, but Emily yells wife
33:23
Speaker 1: basically every time she's on screen, she's like, how about
33:26
Speaker 1: we have kids? So our whole little whole thing is like,
33:30
Speaker 1: once that kids, I want to have kids, which it's
33:32
Speaker 1: all women can think about. I mean, if a woman
33:37
Speaker 1: wants to have children, so much power to her. But
33:41
Speaker 1: when you write a female character that that is apparently
33:44
Speaker 1: the only thing on her mind and we know virtually
33:46
Speaker 1: nothing else about that character, and is also presented as
33:49
Speaker 1: this is why I want to leave this lady because
33:52
Speaker 1: he's cheating on his wife. With Diane Keaton's character, Yeah,
33:57
Speaker 1: she's like, nad kids, kids, kids, and he's like, how
34:00
Speaker 1: about I going fuck other women instead? Number one sexist?
34:04
Speaker 1: Number two bad writing, which is how you could really
34:08
Speaker 1: characterize this whole movie if you wanted to. It's sexist
34:12
Speaker 1: and it is bad writing. Do we have anything else
34:15
Speaker 1: to say about the movie? Another thing I wanted to
34:17
Speaker 1: talk about is how Manhattan and I would guess a
34:20
Speaker 1: lot of Woody Allen movies based on the ones I've seen,
34:23
Speaker 1: are extremely white. Yeah, Woody Allen's characters always seem to
34:29
Speaker 1: be friends with only white people. There are no people
34:32
Speaker 1: of color with any you know, significant screen time or
34:37
Speaker 1: story beats or lines of dialogue in this movie. I
34:39
Speaker 1: think you only see two people of color in the
34:41
Speaker 1: entire movie who are helping him move into his new apartment,
34:45
Speaker 1: but they don't have any lines or anything like that.
34:49
Speaker 1: And Woody Allen is Jewish, so he's not you know,
34:53
Speaker 1: your waspy, Protestant Anglo Saxon type of white. And I
34:58
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge the persecution and prejudice that Jewish people
35:02
Speaker 1: have faced throughout history and also today, but the fact
35:06
Speaker 1: remains that Woody Allen has a habit of populating his
35:10
Speaker 1: movies with only white people, and it's especially crazy for
35:13
Speaker 1: this movie called Manhattan, set in Manhattan, New York City,
35:19
Speaker 1: where are all the people of color. The other thing
35:22
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up is the age gap that
35:25
Speaker 1: exists in this movie and then all cross most Hollywood movie.
35:29
Speaker 1: I mean, this one is egregious, But then I think
35:32
Speaker 1: is almost the only pro that we could say for
35:35
Speaker 1: the massive age gap between Tracy and Isaac is that
35:39
Speaker 1: at least it is pointed out, where in most movies,
35:43
Speaker 1: I don't think it's even pointed out. You're yeah, absolutely right.
35:46
Speaker 1: So I'm taking some stats from an article from Vulture
35:50
Speaker 1: in I'm sure things have gotten better since the better
35:56
Speaker 1: The title of the article is leading men age, but
35:59
Speaker 1: their love interests don't pointing out that, Like you know,
36:02
Speaker 1: Hollywood stars who are men get older because that's how
36:07
Speaker 1: time works. But they're female kind of parts. The love
36:10
Speaker 1: interests of their characters pretty much the same age, which
36:15
Speaker 1: tends to be late twenties, early to mid thirties. Um,
36:20
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford, he just started that new movie play runner
36:23
Speaker 1: for nine. Uh and there, Yeah, I mean it's just
36:28
Speaker 1: all the sorry it took me a second, was like
36:35
Speaker 1: what you said. And he's still allowed to start in movies.
36:40
Speaker 1: Get Harrison FOURD out of movies. He is not allowed anymore.
36:44
Speaker 1: Give out, I retire, bitch, Harrison Ford, bitch retire. I'm
36:52
Speaker 1: fine with Harrison Ford. Harrison for bitch retire. But he
36:55
Speaker 1: is listed in this article as someone who has love
36:59
Speaker 1: and test that do not get much older, and then
37:02
Speaker 1: he usually has a pretty huge age gap, with the
37:05
Speaker 1: closest one, it seems, was when he was in Writers
37:08
Speaker 1: of the Lost Arc he was thirty eight, his love
37:10
Speaker 1: interest Karen Allen was twenty nine. Harrison Ford bitch retired.
37:15
Speaker 1: Crazy age difference was when he was in Six Days,
37:19
Speaker 1: Seven Nights, and and hait was twenty nine and he
37:23
Speaker 1: was fifty five, so he got older. His love interest
37:27
Speaker 1: was still in her late twenties. Other examples, So Johnny
37:31
Speaker 1: Depp is a heinous piece of shit. But yeah, Johnny
37:34
Speaker 1: Depp bitch retired. Yeah, that one literally gonna Joel. However,
37:40
Speaker 1: he is one of my favorite movies, Shock a lot.
37:43
Speaker 1: He is thirty seven. I hate that Alfred Willina had
37:45
Speaker 1: to even meet him. I don't know if they have
37:47
Speaker 1: any do they have scenes together? Maybe they don't, I
37:50
Speaker 1: don't remember, let me watch it. But he is thirty
37:54
Speaker 1: seven in that character in his love interest, Juliet Banosh,
37:58
Speaker 1: she's thirty six, So there's only one year age difference,
38:01
Speaker 1: which is that you don't get a trophy for that. No, No,
38:05
Speaker 1: because in Transcendence he's forty nine and Rebecca Hall is thirty.
38:09
Speaker 1: So that's you know, full on, we're we're at daddy's
38:12
Speaker 1: status at that point. Totally. It's Tom Cruise also bade
38:17
Speaker 1: George pretty bad Old Brother. We aren't though, another one
38:21
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies. He's thirty nine and his wife
38:24
Speaker 1: played by Holly Hunter in that movie is forty two,
38:27
Speaker 1: so she's three years older than him. Amazing. Richard Gear
38:30
Speaker 1: is another one. Richard Gear dribble butt theory, look it up,
38:34
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, Liam Neeson, Tom Hanks. Actually they point out
38:39
Speaker 1: that he tends to be with age appropriate women in
38:43
Speaker 1: his movies. Well there's that, there's one there, Woody Allen.
38:50
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's no way you can spend that
38:53
Speaker 1: the relationship between he and Mariel Hemingley's character to make
38:56
Speaker 1: it good. But the age difference is acknowledged, and we're
38:59
Speaker 1: in those movies. It's not even it's it's an assumed thing, right,
39:04
Speaker 1: It's just like, of course, this handsome older man would
39:08
Speaker 1: have a young twenty or more years younger than him
39:14
Speaker 1: love interests. And then I think that in movies very commonly,
39:17
Speaker 1: if if the inverse does occur, it is immediately acknowledged
39:22
Speaker 1: and made as a point of like this is like,
39:24
Speaker 1: why would a young, handsome young man want to be
39:26
Speaker 1: involved with an older woman. I rewatched Nightcrawler. I haven't
39:30
Speaker 1: seen that. It is very good. It's in reeks of
39:34
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, but it's it's it's I like it a lot.
39:38
Speaker 1: So Jake gillen Hall's character, who we're supposed to think
39:40
Speaker 1: is in his late twenties early thirties, is interested in
39:43
Speaker 1: Rene Russa's character, who's I think supposed to be in
39:46
Speaker 1: her forties or fifties, and he pursues her, and it's
39:50
Speaker 1: constantly their age difference is constantly brought up because she's like,
39:55
Speaker 1: why would you want to be with me, I'm too old,
39:57
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm I'm secure enough to be with
39:59
Speaker 1: an older woman, where that's never the issue in the inverse,
40:02
Speaker 1: like a younger woman never has to say I'm secure
40:05
Speaker 1: enough with myself to be with an older man. It's
40:07
Speaker 1: just assumed that that it's gonna happen. Well, so okay, Cupid.
40:13
Speaker 1: You know they do all their like analytics of dating patterns,
40:18
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings, and they compiled a graph it's like, oh,
40:23
Speaker 1: a woman's age versus the age of the men she's
40:25
Speaker 1: attracted to, and it's basically they tend to be attracted
40:29
Speaker 1: to men very close to their same age. That's generally, like,
40:33
Speaker 1: I mean, a direct correlation. Men are gross I think
40:37
Speaker 1: not true because as the and this of course is
40:41
Speaker 1: you know, very hetero. This is, you know, for hetero relationships,
40:44
Speaker 1: but a man's age versus the women he's attracted to
40:49
Speaker 1: is no matter how old he is, we don't crack.
40:52
Speaker 1: We did not crack all the way up to fifty
40:56
Speaker 1: because they ask what age of women are you most
40:59
Speaker 1: attracted to? And no matter how old a man is,
41:02
Speaker 1: they only much always say either between twenty and twenty
41:06
Speaker 1: three pretty much fucking kids, which I can't I guess
41:09
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say so just and it makes
41:15
Speaker 1: so I wonder, is this because men are conditioned to
41:19
Speaker 1: seeing depictions of older men in media with a younger
41:24
Speaker 1: women and also kind of a complete omission of any
41:28
Speaker 1: woman their age, right of course, Yeah, this is the
41:31
Speaker 1: thing we talked about a lot on the podcast, where
41:34
Speaker 1: rarely do we see women on the screen who are
41:37
Speaker 1: you know, forties, fifties, sixties. So often, you know, women
41:42
Speaker 1: in movies are super young. The implication we can draw
41:46
Speaker 1: from that is no one wants to see an older
41:48
Speaker 1: woman on the screen, no one cares about their stories,
41:51
Speaker 1: And of course that's not true, but we're conditioned to
41:54
Speaker 1: think that because we see so much, we consume so
41:56
Speaker 1: much media where women of a certain age are ignored ignored.
42:01
Speaker 1: Oh wow, this is deeply and to everyone who's like,
42:05
Speaker 1: oh well, men are tried to do younger women because
42:09
Speaker 1: they have a biological imperian because younger women are more
42:12
Speaker 1: fertile and they want to put babies in them. Fuck,
42:16
Speaker 1: we have population issues, bitch, retire, grow up. So basically
42:22
Speaker 1: the point we want to make is the in recent
42:26
Speaker 1: days weeks, a lot of women have come forward calling
42:28
Speaker 1: out different men specifically. So I started with Harvey Weinstein
42:32
Speaker 1: in this most recent sort of news cycle, although at
42:35
Speaker 1: this point I've honestly lost track. I believe the founder
42:38
Speaker 1: of Just for Laughs was forced out of his position,
42:42
Speaker 1: the sitting CEO of Amazon Studios was pushed out of
42:46
Speaker 1: his position. It's interesting because it's like, we have people
42:49
Speaker 1: like Woody On, like Johnny Depp whose names are very
42:52
Speaker 1: recognizable to us, and then there are people whose names
42:56
Speaker 1: we don't know because they're manipulating behind the scenes, whose
42:59
Speaker 1: names are coming out as well. It's a lot. It's
43:01
Speaker 1: a ton screen Dunkies. I don't know exactly who, but
43:04
Speaker 1: someone affiliated with Screen Drinkies several allegations brought against him.
43:09
Speaker 1: It's everywhere, it's everywhere. It's encouraging that women are coming
43:14
Speaker 1: forward and action is being taken against many of these people,
43:18
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein being fired, people losing their jobs and not
43:23
Speaker 1: being allowed to work in Hollywood anymore. Um, and there's
43:26
Speaker 1: a lot of work left to do, and it's painful
43:29
Speaker 1: to have to read these accounts, but feels, you know, important.
43:33
Speaker 1: We hope everyone's looking out for yourself, taken care of
43:36
Speaker 1: yourself through all this, and we you know, obviously applaud
43:40
Speaker 1: all the victims who are coming forward because it is
43:42
Speaker 1: so hard to do, so hard to do, and all
43:45
Speaker 1: the writers who have been able to get those stories
43:48
Speaker 1: out because that's also so hard to do. And not
43:52
Speaker 1: to say that, you know, there I'm sure plenty of
43:55
Speaker 1: victims who are not ready. Things have happened, they're not
43:58
Speaker 1: ready to come forward about it, and so it's not
44:00
Speaker 1: to say that they're not brave, you know, they're like
44:04
Speaker 1: and then it drives me nuts just the emotional labor
44:07
Speaker 1: that any victims have to go through to be like,
44:11
Speaker 1: this thing happened to me, and I you know, I'm
44:13
Speaker 1: revealing it and I'm I'm coming public with it, and
44:15
Speaker 1: then just the burden shouldn't be on victims to come
44:19
Speaker 1: like the burden should be on sexual predators to not
44:23
Speaker 1: fucking be sexual predators, right, But that's never that's never
44:26
Speaker 1: going to have happened. And so it falls upon the
44:29
Speaker 1: people who are these just awful things are happening to
44:33
Speaker 1: them to also then be the ones to have to
44:35
Speaker 1: relive it over and over and over in order for
44:38
Speaker 1: any consequence to happen, Which brings me to just some
44:43
Speaker 1: food for that, because I feel like for years and
44:46
Speaker 1: years and years since the Wady Allen allegation, service, since
44:49
Speaker 1: the Bill Cosby allegation surfaces, there's always a lot of
44:52
Speaker 1: talk of like, how can we separate the art from
44:55
Speaker 1: the artists? Can I still enjoy Bill Cosby's stand up?
44:59
Speaker 1: Can I still joy this movie about Woody Allen? Fucking kid? Honestly?
45:04
Speaker 1: And I have heard a lot of mostly men, some women,
45:08
Speaker 1: mostly men, explain to me their views on why they
45:12
Speaker 1: think that, you know, but I I personally am at
45:15
Speaker 1: a point where I think separating art from artists at
45:19
Speaker 1: this point it's just like a dangerous precedent to set.
45:22
Speaker 1: It allows predators to continue making art without consequence. We
45:26
Speaker 1: are not at a lack for artists in the world.
45:31
Speaker 1: There are a lot of artists with a lot of
45:33
Speaker 1: important things to say, and I think that saying that,
45:37
Speaker 1: you know, if you're an artist and a predator, you
45:39
Speaker 1: can't you can't. There are a lot of voices that
45:43
Speaker 1: need to be heard that will gladly occupy that space
45:46
Speaker 1: who aren't sexual predators or not predators. There should be
45:50
Speaker 1: consequences for everyone. There's no way Woody Allen should be
45:52
Speaker 1: allowed to be making movies. Uh, there's no way that
45:55
Speaker 1: Bill Cosby should be on any stage at any time
45:57
Speaker 1: unless that stage as a court and he's being sent
45:59
Speaker 1: to Yale. Don't see Louis Kan's new movie, which is
46:03
Speaker 1: the clearest homage to Manhattan that you will find just bad, bad,
46:09
Speaker 1: bad bad, Hey, Caitlin, Yes, does Manhattan pass the back
46:13
Speaker 1: to Manhattan does pass the bad? But it passes in
46:22
Speaker 1: the most disturbing exchange from All Tide. So the scene
46:27
Speaker 1: it's Mary, Isaac, Yale, and Tracy all walking down the street.
46:33
Speaker 1: Mary and Tracy when they meet, they say like hi, Hello,
46:36
Speaker 1: That barely comes as a conversation, and later on, later on,
46:42
Speaker 1: Mary says, what do you do Tracy? Tracy says, I
46:45
Speaker 1: go to high school? He really? So, you know, three
46:52
Speaker 1: adults and then one teenager are just hanging out and
46:56
Speaker 1: Mary's like, hey, what do you do for a living?
47:03
Speaker 1: Tracy's like I study for my English sucking exams? Yeah,
47:08
Speaker 1: that what a pass? Good for you? Oh well, we
47:15
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this bonus I would call I would
47:18
Speaker 1: say this is an emergency bonus. Yeah, this is an
47:21
Speaker 1: emergency episode of the Beck Dol Cast. Thanks for listening
47:25
Speaker 1: if you If you want a regular bonus episode, you
47:28
Speaker 1: can sign up for Patreon at patreon dot com slash
47:31
Speaker 1: back Doel Cast, where we do to bonus episodes a
47:35
Speaker 1: month that are you know, they may be as painful
47:39
Speaker 1: as this one. They may not be You'll have to
47:40
Speaker 1: probably not sign out. They'll probably be a little less
47:46
Speaker 1: us screaming. But also if you don't like that, why
47:50
Speaker 1: are you listening to this show? Grow up bitch retire?
47:56
Speaker 1: So yeah, check us out. You can go to our website.
47:58
Speaker 1: You can pledge a five dollars a month on Patreon
48:01
Speaker 1: to get exclusive content and that helps us out with
48:04
Speaker 1: our production costs and all of that. You can follow
48:06
Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. Funk Off Willy Allen,
48:11
Speaker 1: funk Off, Willy and funk Off, Harveerty Weinstein and funk
48:14
Speaker 1: off any sexual predator in Hollywood and everywhere. If you're
48:19
Speaker 1: a man, be fucking helpful. Help everyone else. Keep your
48:24
Speaker 1: head up, listen and believe women and value women. Love you,
48:27
Speaker 1: Bye bye,