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Why Discipline Will Never Fix What Is Actually Wrong with Your Creative Brain · Your Mic

• 0:00
  The chest drop, the tight stomach, the sudden urge to scrap the whole damn thing and
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  start over.
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  That was not fear of failure.
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  That was a soldier running a mission you never, ever approved.
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  Today, I'm talking with Elizabeth Coles.
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  Elizabeth is a therapist, a trauma specialist, and the kind of person who will burn down
• 0:22
  a room herself included in the name of what's right.
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  She works with creatives, entrepreneurs, and people who keep wondering why discipline
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  never seems to stick.
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  Today, she's going to break down the internal team wiring your nervous system without
• 0:36
  your permission and how to take back command.
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  This is your mic.
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  Let's go.
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  Elizabeth, let's talk about the soldier's killing creativity.
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  Well, I wouldn't say they're killing people's creativity.
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  I think that when they are running rogue on their own mission, that you didn't decide
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  that's when they kill your creativity because they are made up of coping mechanisms.
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  So like your controller, the one who needs hyper control all the time or the fixer, the
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  one who fixes everyone's problems, but then no one comes and helps them.
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  Or the guardian who stands up for the underdog or pilots the ethics in the room.
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  The avoider who kind of runs from problems with people get the avoider wrong because they
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  are useful.
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  They temper the guardian.
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  They all work together, but we spend our time kind of demonizing parts of our personality.
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  We're like, oh, I'm such a control freak.
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  I'll never change when it's a condition behavior.
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  And so if you've been conditioned into it, you can be conditioned out of it.
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  How long does that take if it's something that is programmed from our youth based on,
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  it could be trauma, it could be just how you were conditioned as a kid in a two-parent
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  household.
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  How long if that's if you're talking about someone that's in their 30s or 40s, maybe
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  in 50s, like me, because you have all this life experience.
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  You have a lot of ingrained patterns, a lot of it.
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  You don't even know that you chose because when you chose those responses, you were a child.
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  So it's like, imagine putting on a life jacket because you're going swimming, right?
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  You need to stay safe.
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  And so the hyper control or the fixing things is how it kept you safe in those worlds.
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  Well now you're a 40-year-old or a 50-year-old adult who stepped off the beach and you're
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  still wearing your life jacket.
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  It looks ridiculous when you think of it like that.
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  I don't think there's a specific timeline.
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  You can't really, like, you can't say it's going to take you three months, right, because
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  it depends on your ability to look at your own patterns, to then find correlating patterns
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  because it shows up with different symptoms.
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  But people spend their time fixing the symptoms, like, oh, I'm scrolling my phone too much.
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  I had to put a phone timer on that.
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  I'm watching too much TV.
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  I have to go do that.
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  But it's like, you need to get to the root cause.
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  Otherwise, it's like a band-aid on a broken bone.
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  It's not really going to do much.
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  Kind of like people with diets.
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  Yes.
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  Well, yeah, people will self-sabotage their diet all the time and it's not even because it
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  was hard, it was because their identity was not aligned with someone who diets and someone
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  who invests in their health and someone who comes first for once.
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  That's why they'll reject the diet, not because they got bored.
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  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
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  I love the analogy because if you were to lose 20 pounds over the course of a year, the
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  next year, get it all back plus five.
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  Yeah, or lottery.
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  Experience.
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  Like, literally lower than high school weight in my late 40s and here I'm 50 and then
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  I gained it all back and yeah, it's crazy.
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  People think like we're so like there's so many problems and really it's like all of
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  our problems that usually at the same roots, it's usually safety.
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  All my looking for safety and then it comes into here's your trigger points for that.
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  It's going to be loss of control, feelings of rejection and feelings of inadequacy and
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  pretty much any argument you've had or any coping mechanism you've had is to avoid those
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  feelings.
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  Wow, and that seems like the life of a creator right there because you're talking about
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  rejection, you're talking about like self-sabotage and it could be somebody who is a solo
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  per newer who's running a YouTube channel who is a graphic designer for a 100 person
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  employer or a large corporate team and the rejection is real because it's like, oh, you
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  know what Elizabeth, we like that, but we hate this part.
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  So can you tweak it?
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  Elizabeth tweaks it.
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  Yeah, we love that part, but the original part that you had that we love, well, now
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  we hate it because it doesn't go with what you did.
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  Okay.
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  So it goes back a third time to try and fix it and all the while it's like, cool, you're
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  fixing it because you want to do good.
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  You want that approval because that's your job, right?
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  But at the same time, it's like, wow, okay, it's hard to not take personal.
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  It's hard to not take personal because you're living in your old stories and you don't
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  know your body responds behind it.
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  So for me, I'm pretty good at taking feedback, but there's also times and I have some trigger
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  points because I've dealt with a lot of trauma in my life where those conversations are
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  a bit harder for me.
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  So my guardian soldier, which is like the ethics soldier, that is probably still my most
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  like one that runs rogue and will, you know, burn down a whole room with me in it just
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  to prove like the ethics is right, just to do that.
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  It's hard to cut you off.
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  I would love to have an example of that.
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  It could be like, make up one or it could be something that you've worked on.
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  Oh, well, I'm getting better, but let's say like a comment.
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  I'm getting better.
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  We're learning to not be so approachable.
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  There are sometimes in a comment section.
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  So I've dealt with course of control against me in my history of life, and I've been
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  gassed lit.
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  I've dealt with that.
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  So I've had my reality reworked in front of me.
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  And so this is still a hard point with content with me that if I see someone post, but
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  it doesn't show like the true story, I'm like, well, no, I'm going to go correct that.
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  That is wrong.
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  This is going to be misleading for other people.
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  And so I know it's coming here, and I'm going to make you see my point.
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  Well, and I've gone to the point where I don't care if the original posters like is on
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  board with me.
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  It's more like, okay, like let's show the other side of this.
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  But there are points when I'm dysregulated and like, no, I've got to prove this.
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  And I have gotten better at being like, okay, Elizabeth, like, this is a conversation
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  on the internet.
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  And you have to remember what you're here to do.
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  And that is to not fight every single battle.
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  But it is because my history that I, you know, I didn't always stand up for myself.
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  But if there was someone else, oh, get out of my way, I'm going to burn everything to
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  the ground to save them.
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  We ride it dawn.
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  That's pretty much my mantra.
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  So I had to live the past year.
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  We ride it dawn.
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  Oh, man.
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  Okay.
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  In order to, and let's back up here because my guess is that in order to acknowledge or
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  even discover these, this team of soldiers that's doing its thing, you have to see the
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  pattern.
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  And that's another one of those things that you work with your, with your clients on.
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  So what is, what is like, what's an example of a pattern for somebody who has a podcast
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  or as a designer of some sort or even an entrepreneur doing whatever?
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  So I do, like, the way I do say it, and we are going to talk about wiring and body responses,
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  but usually your body will fire first.
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  So say a podcaster, they're like, I just filmed this episode.
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  I'm, okay, now I'm going to go, I'm like, so excited about this episode.
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  Now I'm going to go and edit it.
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  And now I'm watching my face on the screen.
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  And now I'm hearing my voice.
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  And now I'm watching, you know, what I say and why I say and where I'm looking.
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  Well now my chest feels like it's like sinking, like almost like, like someone just punched
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  me in the chest.
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  And now my stomach's tight.
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  And now, you know, my shoulders and my skin feels like it's crawling.
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  You know what?
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  No, this is not good.
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  I'm just not going to put this out there.
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  No, we need to redo this.
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  I don't like anything about this.
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  I don't want to show my face.
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  No, cancel it all.
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  We're redoing it.
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  Are you speaking from personal experience?
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  Well, of course, I use a lot of my stuff for personal experience.
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  Oh, my.
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  I've deep dove into my psyche as well as like watched everyone around, but that's, it's
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  not a one off.
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  Like tell me how many people also do that, but most will cop to it.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, and I concur because I spent about 25 years ish on the radio before launching a podcast
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  production company and then having this podcast about podcasting.
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  And I can tell you right now I did not like listening to myself on the radio.
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  And we would have these things in my previous career called air checks with our program director.
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  And they're like the program directors in charge of the DJs, right?
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  So the program director, Elizabeth would be sitting with Freddie in an office listening
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  to every single break.
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  So Freddie, what do you think about that?
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  Well, you know, Freddie, what do you think about that?
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  What could you have done wrong?
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  What did you do wrong?
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  What could you have?
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  How would you have done that differently?
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  And it was like, I'm surprised I never broke out in Hives.
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  Did you ever because sometimes people default to this?
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  Did you get to the point where we'd almost like preemptively like before they even said,
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  what did you do wrong?
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  You could you would tell them what you did wrong.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I would pick my worst show because it would be a once a week thing.
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  So they're not going to go through, you know, five days of breaks.
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  That would be a three hour meeting and not sustainable for a team of radio personalities.
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  So we go, I would intentionally pick my worst day or what I thought would be my worst
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  day.
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  But that's also a controller response because you already know, I already know it's my
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  worst.
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  You can't, you won't catch me off guard because I picked this because it is my worst.
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  So you're not going to catch me off guard.
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  Interesting.
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  You say that because I always thought why have somebody critique my best if I know it's
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  my best without even being like, and I'm no mine readers.
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  So it could have been something I thought was my best show and they would have said,
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  yeah, that shows suck.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, like, it's kind of both, right?
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  Because I agree with you.
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  Why would you sign up for feedback to only want feedback that is just agreeing with you?
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  Like, you do need to, there's, if you're going to ask for it, you have to be prepared
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  to receive it.
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  But there is that other control part that, you know, I also don't want someone.
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  This is what I think is my best episode.
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  I don't want to hear it stop the best.
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  And so if I have to bring it to them and they tell me that, like, so there was a bunch
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  of movie and parts going on at once is why, you know, we need context and nuance because
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  the context is what separates the shame from the story that you are telling yourself.
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  So what would you tell a creative who is working with a client?
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  And I'm not speaking from personal experience in this context.
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  I know that a lot of us can get into our feelings within ourselves, but then also if somebody
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  is sharing a video that they did and they're sharing it with someone they care about.
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  And then that person that they care about is like, yeah, you know what?
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  It was all right.
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  And it was something that we were for hours on and you're like, it's just okay.
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  It was really good.
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  Yeah, it was so great.
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  Okay.
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  I'll take that later.
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  What?
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  Well, I have had that, actually.
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  Oh, God.
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  Okay.
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  So how did you balance back from that, like, what do you tell people?
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  Well, so if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you have just signed up for one of the hardest
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  fights of your life.
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  It's kind of like parenting, you know, being an entrepreneur will challenge your minds
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  that more than, you know, a lot of other things because you are the product.
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  You are the work.
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  And so that's why a lot of creatives get their backup because it feels like your work
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  is a part of you.
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  And so if someone's telling me that it's wrong, you're telling me that I'm wrong.
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  You're telling me that I'm not good enough.
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  And that also comes into play with the capacity of your nervous system because we do have
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  to have ability to have uncomfortable conversations.
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  Most don't have the skills to do that right now.
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  Right now we've set up a population of everyone, share your feelings, but no one knows what
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  to do on the receiving end.
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  So like, what's happening in your body as you're sitting there and getting that feedback?
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  Well, you know, that's when, you know, you're getting really hot.
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  That sweats dripping down your back.
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  That's your body response.
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  And then that's what starts telling you the story.
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  Because the creative, it would depend on the person because I do a lot of identity work.
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  So it's like, well, why are you even saying that to begin with or what's more important
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  to you?
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  Do you want to help everyone or do you want to make your product perfect and not help anyone?
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  And so if there are driving forces to help someone, well, you're not helping someone
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  by making it perfect and then it never comes out.
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  So you have to almost create like an internal friction and you have to know like your identity.
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  What are your driving factors for me?
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  It's freedom.
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  Well, if, how am I going to get freedom if I'm constantly scared about putting something
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  out there, then I'm going to have to go work for someone else.
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  So the purpose almost has to come outside of you and you do have to understand you are
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  going to feel uncomfortable.
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  Not every conversation is going to be amazing.
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  This is part of life.
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  If people want to bubble wrap their life so they don't feel this, if you don't feel
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  that, you don't feel part of life because you can't be selectively numb.
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  I look selectively numb and then bubble wrapping yourself.
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  I mean, wow.
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  And maybe that's why there's so few of us and a lot of nine to fiveers.
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  And it's not an insult.
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  It's just, it's the human condition because that's how we're wired.
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  We're wired for safety from dinosaur age when T-Rex is looking for it.
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  And it's the same.
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  It's the same hardware with newer improved technology from a 1% that actually broke free
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  from the matrix and created these things like the Gutenberg press, the iPhone.
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  Yep.
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  Right.
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  Well, what do you have?
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  Like it makes me laugh.
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  I remind myself of this because it makes me laugh and it's ridiculous because when
• 15:28
  I'm talking about, it's not mainstream yet.
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  So you know, I do have a lot of crickets at this point because I do have to refine the
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  messaging to get like to understand where people are at.
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  But I think of this scenario that, you know, someone thought it'd be a great idea to invent
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  the porcelain toilet.
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  And can you imagine marketing that?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You have to have grit and determination because like, here's where you're going to
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  shit.
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  Do you want to shit here?
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  Everyone needs a great porcelain toilet.
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  It's the best ever.
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  Like, imagine, imagine marketing that.
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  But we're scared of like, oh, here's your five step framework.
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  Right.
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  Yeah.
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  And to piggyback on that, I did a previous episode about the guy who had figured out why
• 16:19
  so many women in the 1800s were dying at birth after giving, after having children.
• 16:25
  And they're like, yeah, he's like, yeah, wash your hands.
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  That's the TLDRs.
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  He's telling all of his doctor friends and colleagues, hey, wash your hands.
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  And they're like, oh, poppycock.
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  That's silly.
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  It's nonsense.
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  We're going to carry placenta's from the, from the, from the, from the autochlorium
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  in the operating room.
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  Sillyness.
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  What is this?
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  Could you even think that?
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  Yeah.
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  No, I think.
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  And I mean, he went, he literally went mad.
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  Well, it's, if you think about it, actually, it's, well, it's, it's dark.
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  I have terrible dark humor.
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  It's how I get through life.
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  So I kind of laugh at it, but it's, it's so blatantly obvious that you as a creator almost
• 17:06
  feel crazy.
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  Yeah.
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  Like the amount of times that you got, this, in my delusional, like, how has no one seen
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  this?
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  But it's because it is your specialty.
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  And even with me, when I go into some comment sections, I'm like, I don't understand.
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  How do you guys not see that this is a massive projection you're giving right now?
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  And it's like all right, but you don't see it.
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  And to be a creator, to be an inventor, you have to be willing to look crazy.
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  Right.
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  In public.
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  And fail.
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  Yeah.
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  And over again.
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  Yeah, it's like with everyone seeing, and that's what's going to nail those three triggers
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  in your loss of safety.
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  That's why people dip out.
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  It's not because, oh, they're just not disciplined enough or they're procrastinating.
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  Their body is running a threat response.
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  And they don't even know it.
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  So we talked about the team of soldiers.
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  We talked about the pattern.
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  Let's dive into the mechanism.
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  It's something about discipline doesn't override decades old wiring, interrupting the
• 18:04
  wiring does.
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  So how does somebody, how does somebody interrupt the wiring?
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  Let's just say, Elizabeth creates something and crickets.
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  And how do you interrupt the wiring that maybe you had this, like, oh, you know, maybe
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  this is the last time I was the last time I'm never doing this again.
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  I don't know.
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  Every tomorrow.
• 18:22
  Everything down.
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  Yeah, but I'll be back tomorrow.
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  So first things first is your body.
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  So I know we haven't talked about this yet, but your body will respond.
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  That's your ignition point.
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  And your body responses are like, I said, it feels like a three day old bruise on your
• 18:40
  chest.
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  Like, if you've ever been to a funeral, that's usually like what that feeling is that
• 18:45
  grief or your stomach's going to drop.
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  Also, you got to go to the bathroom or your molars are squeezed tight.
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  It's like, think of when you were a child and you heard, you know, something in your
• 18:58
  house, you're home alone, you heard something in your house, okay, maybe not a child teenager.
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  And also, you're like, wait, what was that?
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  Like your body did something, your, the hair on the back, your neck stood up, right?
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  Because the body sensations were there before any language was ever there.
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  Even men weren't doing literary works of art, animals don't even have language.
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  And so the body is the language.
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  That is your initiator.
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  Then what happens is you produce an emotion.
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  And then after the emotion comes the story.
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  So something you hear in your house, body stands on alert, that fear responses inside.
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  And then you're like, oh my God, someone's in my house, someone's coming to get me.
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  What do I need to do to prepare?
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  Let me go get a knife.
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  And really all that happened was a sweater fell in my corner.
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  But you created this entire scenario in your head of what was going to happen.
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  And that wasn't the truth, but you don't look at it because it's too scary to look at.
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  And if you just looked and found the sweater that fell, you could stop that constant loop
• 20:02
  in your brain.
• 20:03
  So when I, you know, have that point where it's like, okay, you know, this didn't do well.
• 20:07
  Oh, I'm, I'm cut, I'm just giving up.
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  Well, what happens usually in my body first is that grief response, that shame response
• 20:15
  of, oh, you're like, here's the pain in my chest.
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  Okay, well, yet you didn't do it right.
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  You're not good enough.
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  You're never going to melt.
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  And it's like the cycle.
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  So now I'm like, wait, wait, wait, is this an old story?
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  Let me separate my body response.
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  Okay, my body just feels like that because of an old story that I keep telling myself.
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  But here's what the fact is, I posted something to me, it didn't do too well.
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  Okay, let's refine it.
• 20:36
  It's not really that big of a deal.
• 20:39
  We just place so much emotional attachment while we're pretending we're not emotional
• 20:43
  creatures.
• 20:44
  Man, okay.
• 20:45
  Well, as you wrap up, I just got to say this has all been really insightful and I really
• 20:54
  enjoyed reading your work and learning more about your process on YouTube.
• 21:00
  Y'all check her out.
• 21:01
  It's the mind-matum and the website is is Elizabeth Coles dot com.
• 21:05
  Talk about the new book coming out.
• 21:08
  So this new book I'm excited about because I've taken five patterns that we run, the
• 21:14
  controller, the avoider guardian, all the people I mentioned, but we're going to gamify
• 21:18
  it.
• 21:19
  So this is like, here's your character.
• 21:22
  Here's their origin point, how they got made.
• 21:24
  Here's what powers them down.
• 21:27
  Here's what lifts them up.
• 21:28
  Here's where you should deploy them, where you shouldn't deploy them.
• 21:31
  And then we're going to go into actual scenarios because you don't just have soldiers.
• 21:36
  I have soldiers.
• 21:37
  There are whole team soldiers and that's where team breakdowns happen.
• 21:42
  Relationships have soldiers.
• 21:43
  And everyone's running these outdated patterns, no one's making progress.
• 21:49
  So we're going to go into these missions.
• 21:51
  Here's how you can find in yourself, here are some protocols to stop it.
• 21:56
  So I have my more targeted questions in there and into body response and identity.
• 22:02
  So I wanted it to feel more like play because it is a heavy topic.
• 22:08
  I mean, no one's like, oh, I can't wait to examine my internal patterns that have been
• 22:12
  running since I was a child.
• 22:13
  That sounds great.
• 22:14
  No, it doesn't.
• 22:15
  Netflix.
• 22:16
  Yeah, let me just like put my insides on this table and examine them.
• 22:20
  That sounds like a really awesome time.
• 22:22
  No, if we can create, no one ever, yeah, that's why I know it's a passion project because
• 22:27
  who in the right line would do this.
• 22:29
  But I wanted to help people and I feel like by giving characters, you can separate yourself
• 22:34
  from the character.
• 22:35
  It's no longer, oh, I'm the avoiders, though I'm like worthless.
• 22:38
  It's more like, oh, my warrior soldier just ran there.
• 22:41
  Oh, actually, this person, I need an avoider soldier right now because I need to take
• 22:46
  myself out of the situation.
• 22:48
  So how can it's like playing G.I.J. with your nervous system?
• 22:52
  That's what I say.
• 22:53
  Well, you got to wait with words.
• 22:55
  I could tell you that.
• 22:56
  Elizabethcoals.com is the website you can check out her upcoming book, connect with her
• 23:01
  on YouTube, Spotify, Instagram.
• 23:03
  Elizabeth, congratulations on the upcoming project.
• 23:06
  Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on your mic.
• 23:08
  Well, thank you for having me.