Latest / The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast / Episode 82: Bucket List Books, Part II

Transcript

Episode 82: Bucket List Books, Part II · The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast

0:12
SPEAKER_00: This is the Mooks and the Gripes podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: This is Trevor, circularly Paul.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Paul, how are you doing today?
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Good to have you back again for all this time.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I know, exactly.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing well.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling nostalgic given today's episode and some of the recent re-listening I've been doing.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm just so happy to be here.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe how long we've been doing this and how fresh and fun it still feels every single time.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: I know.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: The listeners may remember we told you on our last episode that we are going back
0:44
SPEAKER_00: today to the beginning and revisiting our very first episode's topic,
0:49
SPEAKER_00: which was bucket list books.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: And it really doesn't feel like it was that long ago that we started this, but...
0:58
SPEAKER_01: it's been three years i know even a little bit more than three years because we had
1:02
SPEAKER_01: kind of recorded a few in advance of when we started releasing them yeah i asked my
1:05
SPEAKER_01: wife last night to take a guess at how long we've been doing this and she's like
1:09
SPEAKER_01: maybe like a year and a half or so and that's kind of how i feel too but it's
1:14
SPEAKER_01: amazing how it's just flown by
1:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad she's not like, uh, forever.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: A decade at least.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Aren't you guys recording right now?
1:21
SPEAKER_00: You're always.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: No, it's, it's just crazy.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
1:26
SPEAKER_01: we mentioned on the last episode,
1:28
SPEAKER_01: I'd gone back and listened to a couple of our first episodes and it was just nostalgic,
1:33
SPEAKER_01: but also I remember like those conversations,
1:36
SPEAKER_01: not every detail of every conversation,
1:37
SPEAKER_01: but
1:38
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, it feels like it was just yesterday in a lot of ways.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: That is very cool.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, before we get to our episode, and we will have some listener feedback.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I really enjoyed, we got an email from Rick Parfit, who has emailed us in the past.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: I always enjoy your emails, Rick.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: And he did say he loves the episodes where we feature listener feedback,
2:09
SPEAKER_00: like NYRB Classics one,
2:11
SPEAKER_00: the short fiction one,
2:13
SPEAKER_00: the end of the year where we have people recorded and sharing those things.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: And we will have some of that today when we get into the bucket list topic.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: And so Paul has put a lot of stuff together here in our document that
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's fun to see what everybody else puts on their list.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, everybody, for sharing.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: We invite you to do the same every time that you know what's coming up or even
2:40
SPEAKER_00: after we've recorded an episode.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: If it's inspired a thought in your mind of,
2:44
SPEAKER_00: oh,
2:45
SPEAKER_00: this is what I would have said or what I would have done,
2:47
SPEAKER_00: we would love to hear it and then be able to share it.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Even if you listen to the episode a year or two,
2:53
SPEAKER_00: three years after we recorded it,
2:55
SPEAKER_00: we're always happy to hear from you.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And another piece of great feedback we just got based on our most recent episode,
3:02
SPEAKER_01: which was the audiobooks episode,
3:03
SPEAKER_01: was from our good friend Bill Martini.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: He says, guys, I finished Wolf and White Van today on audiobook.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Man, it was so good.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for the recommendation.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: It moved me tremendously.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: And that just did my heart good because as I've gone on and on about that,
3:17
SPEAKER_01: it's one of my all-time favorite,
3:19
SPEAKER_01: not only audiobook,
3:20
SPEAKER_01: but reading experiences period.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad that Bill felt the same way.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes when you recommend something so highly, there's a little bit of like,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: You never know if it's just hit you at the right time.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: So that was great to hear.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: It was.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And there's a little bit more to Bill's message, too, that might feel a little self-indulgent to read.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: But do you mind, Paul?
3:40
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't mind at all.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: It was very kind.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: And the reason that I would like to share it is to kind of return...
3:48
SPEAKER_00: the favor, like to reciprocate and say that whatever you felt here is something we feel too.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: So if you don't mind.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: It says on a broader note,
3:56
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to say that since I started listening to your podcast two years ago,
4:00
SPEAKER_01: my reading life has been enriched immeasurably.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: It is not hyperbole to say you guys have been such a positive part of my life.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your passion and your book advocacy.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Take care.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought that was very nice.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: But the reason that I thought it would be fun to share is, you know, first off, we love hearing that.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: It's very encouraging.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: But I think we get out of it the same kind of feeling,
4:27
SPEAKER_00: both in our conversations,
4:28
SPEAKER_00: like if it really were just you and me getting together and talking.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: It's still very enriching.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Add into it the listener community and our friends,
4:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
4:41
SPEAKER_00: that just,
4:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
4:44
SPEAKER_00: we definitely get so much out of this too.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: And so it is very encouraging to hear that others...
4:52
SPEAKER_00: feel like it's an enriching part of their life.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: And I'll just quickly do one more that we got that was a piece of feedback.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: We asked people to just list some of their favorite audio books.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a listener that I'm not as familiar with,
5:07
SPEAKER_01: but so I wanted to make sure to give a shout out.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: It's ARP Verona on Instagram said,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe is superb as an audio book,
5:16
SPEAKER_01: as is anything read by Juliet Stevenson,
5:18
SPEAKER_01: but particularly Jane Austen.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: So I haven't heard of Empire of Pain, but I'm all about the Jane Austen.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to make sure to mention that.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for sharing that.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Wendy Widden, one of our very good friends, also put on Patreon a comment on audiobooks.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: I've only recently started listening to audiobooks.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: I learned that,
5:41
SPEAKER_00: as with new readers,
5:42
SPEAKER_00: the ability to focus on the narration without the mind wandering develops over time.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: It is.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: No, it's like anything.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: It's a learned science, I guess, or whatever, a learned art.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: It definitely takes some time to get the hang of it.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: And just like all of us, I think some books I can listen to while I work, some I can't.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: But when I find a book I can listen to while working, I love it.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I was just looking for new audio,
6:05
SPEAKER_00: so I took Trevor's recommendation and just borrowed Commonwealth on Libby.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: The Lucy Barton series works great for me on audio.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: And Long Island, read by Jesse Buckley, should win an audiobook award.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Jesse Buckley was outstanding.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Even if one has read Long Island, I would still recommend listening to it.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: That's the new Colin Toobin book.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: and I'm very excited to read that one, but maybe I'll listen to it instead.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
6:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I was starting to remember when I listened to,
6:31
SPEAKER_01: I guess it's,
6:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's the prequel,
6:33
SPEAKER_01: but the connected book Brooklyn by him.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember if I read it or listened to the audio book,
6:38
SPEAKER_01: but as I've said,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know specifically if that one has a UK connection.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: I would assume a lot of his books do,
6:44
SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
6:45
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm a sucker for any audio books that have a narrator with an Irish or English accent.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: It just makes it that much more pleasant to listen to for me.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for all the feedback.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: We'll get to more feedback as we get to the bucket list.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: But first, Paul, what have you been reading?
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have been reading a couple of things.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
7:04
SPEAKER_01: my one book at a time thing has not necessarily held up as I predicted,
7:07
SPEAKER_01: but it has been a little bit.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: But Miss Macintosh, My Darling continues to just be a wonderful experience.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And I just wanted to give another shout out again to the wonderful series that's
7:17
SPEAKER_01: going on right now between our good friend Anthony and our other good friend Lori.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: I've just really been enjoying reading that.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And they're doing such a wonderful job of just
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Capturing the spirit,
7:27
SPEAKER_01: but also kind of the freeness of just being able to like move forward,
7:31
SPEAKER_01: move back,
7:32
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: with that.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to mention that briefly.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: But the main book that I've been reading is Claudia Pinheiro's A Little Luck,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: translated by Francis Riddle.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: As I've said before, I absolutely loved Elena Knows when I read that a couple of years ago.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And so this one I've been kind of savoring and waiting a little bit for, but figured it was finally time.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: I forget.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Have you read this one, Trevor?
7:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I haven't read that one yet.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: I actually still need to read both.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: She has another one coming out later on this year from Charcoal Press,
8:06
SPEAKER_00: and I need to get all the other two done so that I can be prepared.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Well,
8:12
SPEAKER_01: maybe this will give you even more of a prompt because I was going to just read on
8:17
SPEAKER_01: the opening page.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a quote from one of your favorites,
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Alice Monroe,
8:21
SPEAKER_01: and particularly from The Children's Day,
8:24
SPEAKER_01: which is one of her stories.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And it says, this is acute pain.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: It will become chronic.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Chronic means that it will be permanent, but perhaps not constant.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: It may also mean that you won't die of it.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: You won't get free of it, but you won't die of it.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: You won't feel it every minute, but you won't spend many days without it.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And you'll learn some tricks to dull it or banish it,
8:45
SPEAKER_01: trying not to end up destroying what you incurred this pain to get.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's a dark but also a very resilient message, I would say.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: to kick the book off, and then I'm just going to read one more quick paragraph.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: This is literally the next page, page one, and this is how the book starts.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: It says, The barrier arm was down.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: She stopped behind two other cars.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: The alarm bell rang out through the afternoon silence.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: The red lights below the railway crossing sign blinked off and on.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: The lowered arm, the alarm bell, and the red lights all indicated that a train was coming.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: But there was no train.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Two, five, eight minutes, and still no train in sight.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: The first car drove around the barrier and crossed the tracks.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: The second car moved forward and took its place.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's the end of that section, and then it moves on to a different thing.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: But as you could probably tell from that, there is an event that this whole book centers around.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I don't want to say much more than that, but
9:48
SPEAKER_01: I would say that Claudia Pinheiro,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: based on the two books I've read,
9:50
SPEAKER_01: is just a master of the slow build and keeping most of the information back,
9:55
SPEAKER_01: but feeding you just enough to make you want to turn the next page.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: She's just wonderful at both the suspense,
10:01
SPEAKER_01: but also the ability to kind of really dive into people's inner lives and the
10:06
SPEAKER_01: hardships that they go through.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just...
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Really loved this one almost as much as Elena knows.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I don't know if that gave you any added motivation, but yeah, absolutely wonderful stuff.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking forward to reading her next one too.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's great.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I just got a package that I ordered of the other three Sela Almada books that Charco has put out.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, both of us liked Not a River so much.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: You just brought it up.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Was it just even the last episode?
10:39
SPEAKER_00: I think it was the last one, yeah.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know if it was when you brought it up that I said,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: I just finally,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: I need to go get those and got those.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's so many.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: so many good books that they're putting out.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: And I love that they're focused so heavily on certain writers.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Like you can find one and usually they've published one or two of these, of these authors.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I love that too.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And I have that big box that I got recently from them as well,
11:06
SPEAKER_01: that I've been kind of making my way through,
11:07
SPEAKER_01: but I definitely want to get the Silva Almadas as well.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: So looking forward to that.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: It's been great so far.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, what have you been reading?
11:16
SPEAKER_00: All right.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, the new Caesar Ira book is coming out from New Directions.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: This is two books in one, two stories in one.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're novellas.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Festival and Game of the Worlds, both of them translated by Catherine Silver.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: And you just never know what you're going to get from a Caesar Ira book.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: At all.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Not anything.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: But here is the beginning of Festival.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to read actually more than I usually do,
11:52
SPEAKER_00: just because I think it pays for Cesar Aira to let him show you how many different
11:59
SPEAKER_00: ways he can approach something.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: This might not be appealing to everybody.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I will then kind of tell you a little bit about where the book continues to
12:08
SPEAKER_00: go and what Aira might be exploring later.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: But I also thought it was fun to maybe give it a little bit of time,
12:16
SPEAKER_00: see if anybody's drawn in,
12:18
SPEAKER_00: or if it's just me because I have such faith in Ira that he could write about
12:23
SPEAKER_00: anything and I'm ready to let him take me away.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: But this is just the kind of dry beginning.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: One of the independent film festival's most important guests was the Belgian director Alec Sterix.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: He would preside over the grand jury and
12:40
SPEAKER_00: premiere his latest film, and present a retrospective of his extensive body of work.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: He'd also participate in panel discussions and Q&A sessions with the public.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Because his schedule was so packed,
12:53
SPEAKER_00: and since he was one of the principal and most widely publicized attractions of the
12:58
SPEAKER_00: entire event,
12:59
SPEAKER_00: the organizers had agreed,
13:00
SPEAKER_00: despite budgetary restrictions,
13:03
SPEAKER_00: to send him two airplane tickets rather than the one all the other guests got.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Not that the festival lacked resources.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Quite the contrary,
13:12
SPEAKER_00: the municipal authorities,
13:13
SPEAKER_00: aware of the event's economic benefits and prestige,
13:16
SPEAKER_00: had been quite generous.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: But every additional perk or inkling thereof led to suspicions and resentments.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: One additional justification for this largesse was that Sterix,
13:28
SPEAKER_00: though active and at the peak of his creative powers,
13:30
SPEAKER_00: was no longer young,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: and rumors circulated that he had been suffering certain health problems.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Allowing him a companion, therefore, was by no means inappropriate.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Great,
13:42
SPEAKER_00: or rather enormous,
13:44
SPEAKER_00: was the welcoming party's surprise when they arrived at the airport and found that
13:48
SPEAKER_00: he was accompanied by his mother.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: She was an elderly lady,
13:53
SPEAKER_00: around 90 years old,
13:54
SPEAKER_00: who looked lost and disoriented as she emerged from customs with her son.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: She didn't respond to greetings and words of welcome, bewildered as these were.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: nor to questions and comments which attempted to be polite.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Her lack of response could be explained by the inherent inconveniences of a long
14:12
SPEAKER_00: airplane trip which affect the young and the old,
14:15
SPEAKER_00: the healthy and the infirm.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: It was likely, moreover, that the old woman had been heavily sedated in order to face the ordeal.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Her son didn't look in great shape either.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: The two hosts,
14:26
SPEAKER_00: one man and one woman,
14:28
SPEAKER_00: accompanied by their driver,
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Sasha,
14:30
SPEAKER_00: hastily reconsidered their ideas about the prestigious artist.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Because of the overwhelming confusion caused by that strange family duo,
14:38
SPEAKER_00: however,
14:38
SPEAKER_00: no clear and well-defined new ideas were immediately replacing the old ones.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: The appearance of the old woman,
14:44
SPEAKER_00: like a skillful move in a chess match,
14:47
SPEAKER_00: had thoroughly discombobulated them.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: A couple consisting of a mother and a son was not that strange in and of itself,
14:54
SPEAKER_00: but the circumstances made this pairing quite disconcerting.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Sterix's mother was not only absent-minded and incoherent, but also vexed.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: and she didn't hide it.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: They assumed,
15:06
SPEAKER_00: based on what she said,
15:07
SPEAKER_00: that the source of her vexation was the wheelchair provided by the airlines.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: She wanted to walk just like everybody else.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: She didn't want to be seen as an invalid.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: She mixed these expressions of displeasure with complaints about the airplane food,
15:20
SPEAKER_00: veritable crap that had made her sick.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Perla Sobieski,
15:24
SPEAKER_00: the director of the Cinematheque and a member of the festival organizing committee
15:27
SPEAKER_00: who had insisted on being the first to welcome Sterix,
15:30
SPEAKER_00: her idol,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: made a show of agreeing with her
15:34
SPEAKER_00: a move that lacked originality.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Denigrating airplane food was commonplace, and there was no response.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: The woman was struggling to rise from her wheelchair.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Her son was explaining to her,
15:46
SPEAKER_00: with the same patient clarity that he must have been accustomed to exhibiting,
15:51
SPEAKER_00: that the flight attendant who'd supplied her with this mode of transportation had
15:54
SPEAKER_00: not done so with ill intentions,
15:56
SPEAKER_00: but rather to ease her passage through the bureaucratic formalities and to avoid
16:00
SPEAKER_00: interrupting the flow of passengers impatient to leave.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: His patience and clarity were wasted.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: his mother wasn't listening as she persisted in her attempts to stand up.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: There's, I mean, I don't know.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: There's something about that flow of very mundane,
16:20
SPEAKER_00: very,
16:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:21
SPEAKER_00: almost pointless,
16:22
SPEAKER_00: like get into even,
16:24
SPEAKER_00: even though it's only a sentence or two of detail about,
16:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:27
SPEAKER_00: the two,
16:28
SPEAKER_00: the two tickets rather than just one.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, the municipality likes the benefit that this festival brings to it.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: So they're being generous.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: The,
16:37
SPEAKER_00: the airplane food, like all of these kind of normal things.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And then the sense of anxiety that it builds in the,
16:44
SPEAKER_00: in the,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: the festival directors,
16:46
SPEAKER_00: particularly Perla,
16:47
SPEAKER_00: who is,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: this is her,
16:50
SPEAKER_00: one of her heroes.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And, um, I'm not through with that story yet and I haven't started the next one, but, um,
16:58
SPEAKER_00: It's clearly, to me, going to be at least partially about your impressions of somebody.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Because as you go on,
17:06
SPEAKER_00: everybody at the festival is reconfiguring what they think they know,
17:10
SPEAKER_00: not just about this film director,
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Sterix's.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: person, like, oh, we thought he must be this kind of image.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: We have this image of this film director from his films,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: but also reconfiguring what his films must mean,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: simply because they're seeing him with this mother who is
17:30
SPEAKER_00: cranky and doesn't seem to know what's going on and so they're trying to figure out
17:33
SPEAKER_00: what is he doing is this actually part of his art but it's so fun and so funny if
17:38
SPEAKER_00: you can get into that very dry almost mundane normal tone and uh man but you know
17:47
SPEAKER_00: again this is ira so for all i know we're going on to some just majorly crazy uh
17:53
SPEAKER_00: stuff coming up in fact we probably are right take a sharp left turn at any time i
17:57
SPEAKER_00: mean did you ever read the literary conference
18:01
SPEAKER_00: him i haven't read that one yet no all right well it's a literary conference right
18:05
SPEAKER_00: but by the end you have um mutated uh
18:09
SPEAKER_00: giant silk worms chasing everybody in town.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: I remember you talking about that on one of our episodes.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: More than a left turn.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: You just don't know.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And then again,
18:20
SPEAKER_00: maybe it is just,
18:21
SPEAKER_00: this one is just going to remain more about this relationship and how it is
18:27
SPEAKER_00: disorienting to everybody who thought they knew,
18:29
SPEAKER_00: even though they had absolutely no idea of anything about this film director,
18:33
SPEAKER_00: but I don't know.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you know when that one comes out?
18:39
SPEAKER_00: This title will be released on June 28th.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think, if I'm not mistaken, that is a great day for New Directions.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: At least this is a great month.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: They might all be coming out on the same day, but they have several books.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: In fact, our friend Mark Haber is calling it New Directions Day, like a new favorite holiday.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: This particular birthday in New
19:04
SPEAKER_00: june of when several of their big big titles are coming out and he says he wants
19:09
SPEAKER_01: every one of them so yeah no they're one that i i mean i've always appreciated them
19:13
SPEAKER_01: but since i got that new classics subscription i think my respect and excitement
19:19
SPEAKER_01: about them has even reached a new level because
19:22
SPEAKER_01: In particular,
19:23
SPEAKER_01: It Lasts Forever and Then It's Over,
19:24
SPEAKER_01: which is that book I talked about by Anne DeMarkin last time,
19:29
SPEAKER_01: just blew me away.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And then I've read several others.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: They're not all slim,
19:34
SPEAKER_01: but they often have these little slim,
19:36
SPEAKER_01: powerful books coming out seemingly every month that are just...
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: So no, I'm excited.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to go dig a little further and see what all is coming out in June.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Well,
19:47
SPEAKER_00: one of the other ones is a big one,
19:50
SPEAKER_00: probably for world literature,
19:52
SPEAKER_00: let alone just another great title from them.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: It's Selene's War.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And this is kind of a major one because he had,
20:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:03
SPEAKER_00: he's the one Mark Haber brought up in our New Directions episode about death on the
20:07
SPEAKER_00: installment plan.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: And it says, here's what they say about it.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Selene had long claimed that death on the installment plan was part of a trilogy
20:16
SPEAKER_00: and that the manuscripts of war and London had been stolen by the resistance from
20:20
SPEAKER_00: his apartment when he fled for his life and abhorred collaborator from Paris.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: But few believed him.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: But then, mysteriously, the manuscripts came to life in 2020.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So here you go.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Here's war.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I've not read Death on the Installment Plan.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, here's war.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm guessing, since they say the manuscripts, that they also found London.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: and that that might be getting worked on to be coming out in English as well.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: It might already be out in French for all I know.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: I do think I looked into this when we first found out, but it's been long enough that I don't remember.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: No,
21:05
SPEAKER_01: he's a big gap for me because I have Journey to the End of the Night and Death on
21:09
SPEAKER_01: the Installment Plan both,
21:10
SPEAKER_01: which like you said,
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Mark mentioned is two of his all-time favorite books.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: So that's exciting news on many levels.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: All right.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Last bit of housekeeping is just a reminder of the Summer Book Club, William Trevor edition.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: We will be reading the story of Lucy Gall.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: You can start it right now.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: You can read it whenever you want to.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Our episode on the book will be going out at the beginning of August.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And while we're not necessarily planning on doing a sub stack or any kind of place
21:42
SPEAKER_00: where people can go and have a reading schedule,
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Um,
21:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:46
SPEAKER_00: we'd love it if you shared your thoughts on Instagram or,
21:49
SPEAKER_00: uh,
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Twitter or wherever else you might send us emails,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: uh,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: when you're getting the book,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: if you've read the book,
21:56
SPEAKER_00: what you're thinking about the book as you're reading it.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think that'll be a fun way to, to engage.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And, and while, while we did tell Kim, Hey, we need to, we need to hashtag
22:06
SPEAKER_00: I haven't been following up with her.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if she knew that I was dead serious about that.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: I really do need you to get us a hashtag, Kim.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: I can't do these.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Come on, Kim.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: It's not like you have anything else going on.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: But if anybody else has an idea for a nice hashtag,
22:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
22:25
SPEAKER_00: we could do something simple as MOOCs 2024 or something like that.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: But,
22:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:32
SPEAKER_00: we'll maybe let people know what that is on the next episode so that we can have
22:37
SPEAKER_00: some way if you want to tag your posts on that,
22:43
SPEAKER_00: whether that's,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: on one social media platform or another.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: But definitely,
22:48
SPEAKER_00: regardless of whatever hashtag you may or may not use,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: flag us so that we can see your thoughts.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: All right, Paul, back to the beginning.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Back to Bucket List Books.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I think right now our episode is almost as long as our first episode on Bucket List Books.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Yep, I think so.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: I think as we said,
23:11
SPEAKER_01: it was funny because we originally said on that episode,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: oh,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I know we're only going to go for about 30 minutes.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, that was never going to happen.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So what do you think about bucket lists now?
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's been a few years.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And when we get to our list,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I would like to ask you if you thought about a bucket list for reading differently
23:33
SPEAKER_00: than you did that first year.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
23:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's a difference for me,
23:36
SPEAKER_00: at least the way that I conceptualize this,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: between a book I want to read and a bucket list book.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: But what are your...
23:47
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: How do we introduce this topic again?
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good question.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I was going to mention,
23:52
SPEAKER_01: I saw a post the other day from our friend Mary Cupcake1234 on Instagram,
23:57
SPEAKER_01: her handle,
23:58
SPEAKER_01: and she posted a picture of the Grave Diggers Guild by Matthias Ennard,
24:02
SPEAKER_01: and it says,
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Compass still haunts me.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: It was either reread that or stop saving this one.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Do you save books for later?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: We need to stop wasting time, in all caps.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was a funny thing.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: I kind of inspired this whole thing of like,
24:15
SPEAKER_01: again,
24:16
SPEAKER_01: it's not that it's wasting time to read other things,
24:18
SPEAKER_01: but I think in a lot of ways for me,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I was,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: listening to our first episode.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: And at that time we had both just kind of barely past the age of 40.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: And we, I think one of the big themes of that episode is why not now?
24:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that was fresh out of the pandemic.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: In fact, we were kind of still in the middle of it.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think there was a little bit of that idea of, you know,
24:38
SPEAKER_01: it's not mortality again.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not like anything morbid like that,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: but it's just that idea of like,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: it's so easy to keep kicking this stuff down the road,
24:45
SPEAKER_01: but I really liked the optimistic tone we took.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Why not now?
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Like,
24:48
SPEAKER_01: why not just jump in and start,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: tackling some of these books that are the ones you're saving for that perfect day.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And for me, I think that's still pretty much how I feel about it.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think, um, you know, I don't know that I've been quite as, um,
25:05
SPEAKER_01: When I read these books, I don't know that I've been thinking about it in quite the same way every time.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: For example,
25:09
SPEAKER_01: something like Black Lamb and Grey Falcon,
25:12
SPEAKER_01: when that came up,
25:12
SPEAKER_01: it wasn't like,
25:13
SPEAKER_01: okay,
25:14
SPEAKER_01: it's finally time to do this.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: It was almost like an impromptu thing.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of interesting.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't probably a bucket list book for you.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: yeah a book that you'd known but not something that you felt like i just i'm one of
25:28
SPEAKER_00: these before i die that is a book i want to have read right no exactly so it's i
25:34
SPEAKER_01: think it is still an ongoing thing of there is a difference between those things
25:38
SPEAKER_01: and probably some gray area a little bit in between but yeah i think for me it's
25:42
SPEAKER_01: it's still there's the mount rushmore and
25:46
SPEAKER_01: as we'll talk about here, some of those books that we cited three years ago have
25:51
SPEAKER_00: been read and then yeah obviously that it's not you anyway i i've done poorly but i
25:57
SPEAKER_01: don't know i was looking at your list i think you did you've done better than you
26:00
SPEAKER_01: gave yourself credit for but um no it's just that idea of like it's not like you
26:04
SPEAKER_01: you finish one and replace another one that's not anything quite as clean as that
26:07
SPEAKER_01: but i do think there's a little bit of the fun of like rethinking it and i think
26:10
SPEAKER_01: that's what i always love about our podcast is even if it's kind of happening in
26:14
SPEAKER_01: the back of your mind anyways i think this is a chance to kind of you know to some
26:17
SPEAKER_01: degree formalize it or at least like think about it in that way so
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
26:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's changed that much,
26:23
SPEAKER_01: but it's just been an interesting ongoing kind of conversation and thought process
26:28
SPEAKER_01: for me.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: How about you?
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Has it changed?
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know if it's changed either that much.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I will tell you that when we released this episode,
26:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:38
SPEAKER_00: three years ago now,
26:40
SPEAKER_00: our friend who at the time was Sean the Book Maniac,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: but folks should know he now goes by Sean Breeds Books.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Got a legal name change there, Sean.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: So if you're searching for him on the various platforms known as YouTube,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: that's what he,
26:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Sean is.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: our good friend Sean Mooney, he is Sean breathes books.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: He did the hashtag on YouTube that spread.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you search MOOCs bucket list on YouTube, you'll, you'll get up.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: probably more videos than we had listeners at the time of people jumping in on this.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was fun to see that these are things that I think were like long-term goals
27:18
SPEAKER_00: for people that they just hadn't quite gotten to yet for one reason or another.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: And I may have approached our first episode more as, what are some books I'm excited to read?
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily thinking, what are some books I want to have a part of me reading?
27:36
SPEAKER_00: um before i'm gone you know i didn't think of the bucket list quite in the literal
27:40
SPEAKER_00: way of what that term means now that now that it's in common usage um but i think
27:47
SPEAKER_00: sarah gore who's one of our friends on um on twitter uh she put that very well and
27:53
SPEAKER_00: it's kind of the same idea you were touching on um with uh with your your first bit
27:59
SPEAKER_00: of feedback there on why not now you know yeah
28:03
SPEAKER_00: And this is what Sarah said last night.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: She said, Virginia Woolf's The Waves is one of those books that I have been saving up.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Over a decade ago, I was reading all of Woolf in chronological order.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: When I got to The Waves, I was so sure I would love it.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I had to save it up.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why, but it's waiting for me.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: I think that's such an interesting, but also I've done that with plenty of books.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: I just can't quite bear to read it yet.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: It's in some ways already a part of my life.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: That expectation is a part of my life.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: And whether I am afraid that it's not going to live up to it,
28:45
SPEAKER_00: or I just am savoring that anticipation,
28:48
SPEAKER_00: which is part of the fun.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
28:51
SPEAKER_00: but I tried to think of my bucket list books as being a little bit more on that end
28:56
SPEAKER_00: of the spectrum,
28:56
SPEAKER_00: like books that I've been,
28:57
SPEAKER_00: uh,
28:59
SPEAKER_00: the anticipation is almost as much a part of things now as,
29:03
SPEAKER_00: as the actual sitting down and reading it will be.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Um,
29:08
SPEAKER_00: so I,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: I do,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: I do like,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I do like thinking of it that way more like,
29:13
SPEAKER_00: cause one book I was,
29:14
SPEAKER_00: when we first said,
29:15
SPEAKER_00: okay,
29:15
SPEAKER_00: let's do this.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: I thought, Oh, I need to put down, um,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Like the the new Alexis Wright book or,
29:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:24
SPEAKER_00: well,
29:25
SPEAKER_00: either one of them,
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Carpinteria or Praiseworthy,
29:28
SPEAKER_00: which have been getting a lot of buzz and just published in the US by New Directions.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: But I realized those are kind of fresh books.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh,
29:37
SPEAKER_00: I want to read that because I didn't know about them until earlier this year,
29:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:41
SPEAKER_00: when they were maybe last year when I saw that they were coming out.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I thought as much as I think those might even become like those big books
29:49
SPEAKER_00: sitting there looking at me that I,
29:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:51
SPEAKER_00: do develop into a bucket list book more officially if I don't read them soon enough.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I did want my bucket list to more reflect the element of time and
30:03
SPEAKER_00: And maybe a little bit of that intimidation, but also I can't quite bear to read it just yet.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm saving it for something or other.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And that was definitely part of my thought process in the last list.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But, I mean, you say I did better than I think.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, Paul.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: I've got my list here.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to refresh your recollection of what it is?
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Let's look at it.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, Remembrance of Things Past by Marcel Proust.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: I haven't read that yet, though I have, you know, I did really enjoy and started, but I, I need to act.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: This is one I just need to sit down and make a plan with.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: I can't just sit down on a Saturday and say,
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start this today and then start reading it because it hasn't sunk in yet.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: It hasn't, um, hasn't risen to that, that level, even as much as I was enjoying the James Grieve
30:59
SPEAKER_00: translation that was published by nyrb classics about a year ago so that's one i
31:04
SPEAKER_00: failed on uh the stones of erin by tim robinson those are two books um that that
31:10
SPEAKER_00: are put out by nyrb classics that i've had for years and years and years i haven't
31:15
SPEAKER_00: read those i still haven't read the black prince by iris murdoch which has come up
31:21
SPEAKER_00: a few times both as one of those longest books on my shelf that i've never read but
31:26
SPEAKER_00: i've been wanting to
31:28
SPEAKER_00: And I haven't read the very short relative to the rest of these Frost in May by Antonia White.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: The only one I have read from my five of the first one was The Mountain Lion by Jean Stafford.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: And I just finished that like what a week, week and a half ago for NYRB Women 24.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: So I would say it's a dang good thing.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm reading the books for NYRB Women 2024 or I would be 0 for 5 on these bucket list books from the past.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: You know how teachers grade on a curve?
31:59
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's maybe what I'm doing here.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you read The Mountain Lion.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Who cares about the rest of those things?
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Which I loved.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: We still need to probably sit down and talk about that.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: We do, for sure.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: So maybe where I was giving you a little bit more grace is we also mentioned quite
32:16
SPEAKER_01: a few honorable mentions in that first episode.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you jotted those down for this conversation, but I did.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Some of the ones you mentioned were Thomas Pinchon.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And if I'm not mistaken, you've read The Crying of Lot 49 since then, right?
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Anthony Trollope was one you mentioned.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, geez, I mean, you knocked that one out of the park.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: Mae Sarton.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I have read one of hers too, as I live or something.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, go ahead.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: This one might be a little bit of a touchy subject, but David Copperfield.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: It's on my bucket list.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: But you talked about retiring something from your bucket list in that first episode.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: And when I was listening to that,
32:58
SPEAKER_01: I was chuckling because you were very confident about your decision to just
33:04
SPEAKER_01: you know, this whole war and peace thing, you know, it's, it's been haunting me for years.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm over it.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: No,
33:07
SPEAKER_01: it wasn't quite that extreme,
33:08
SPEAKER_01: but you had kind of pretty much resigned yourself to some peaceful feelings around
33:14
SPEAKER_01: just letting it go.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was pretty funny that I was done with the war yet another one that
33:19
SPEAKER_01: you have knocked out of the park.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: So if you mix in the honorable mentions, I would say you've actually done very nicely.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: No, I appreciate you bringing those up.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: The war and peace was an absolute surprise to me.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I was inspired like,
33:33
SPEAKER_00: lightning to give it another go because of Chris V is video on leaf by leaf.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: If it weren't for that video or effort for his,
33:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:42
SPEAKER_00: discussion of the,
33:43
SPEAKER_00: of himself sitting down to finally start this book,
33:45
SPEAKER_00: he had not read yet,
33:46
SPEAKER_00: but was excited to,
33:48
SPEAKER_00: I still would be fine.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Not having, you know, I would have never changed my perspective on that.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And I'm very glad that I did.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: And it was a book that came up a lot as we asked people for, what is a book that you might want to read?
34:02
SPEAKER_00: What's on your bucket list was War and Peace.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: That one did come up a lot.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll just quickly go over my list, if that works for you.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you did great.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: From the first episode, I did pretty.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: So I will start with the bad news.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: I have not yet read Finnegan's Wake.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: It continues to kind of sit there and taunt me from the shelves and may do that forever.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Anatomy of melancholy, also no.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's not for lack of interest.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: It's just,
34:31
SPEAKER_01: those are obviously probably two of the most intimidating books,
34:35
SPEAKER_01: period,
34:35
SPEAKER_01: that there are,
34:36
SPEAKER_01: but they both still haunt me a little bit.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Then we'll move into the C.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: If those are the Fs,
34:41
SPEAKER_01: because I didn't do them at all,
34:42
SPEAKER_01: we'll move into the C range.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Complete Poems of Emily Dickinson was on my list, which inspired by our episode that we did.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember when that was, relatively shortly thereafter.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: I continue to pick at them, and I've read a fair number, but
34:56
SPEAKER_01: That's a big collection.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I would not say that I get a full A on that because I haven't read all of them, but did do that one.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: And then here's actually both of the other ones.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: You can actually take credit for both of these too.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Savage Detectives was on my list by Roberto Bolaño.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And we both just read that one fairly recently.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: And then Don Quixote was also one that I did read pretty shortly after this.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's one that you've also read.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, part one, I still have not jumped into part, you know, book one.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they divide it, but the first like 450 pages or something like that.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: And do need to get back to part two.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: I keep on, that's one of those exciting, taunting, you know, tantalizing moments.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: things on my shelf.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:46
Well,
35:46
SPEAKER_01: and then we'll get to my honorable mentions,
35:48
SPEAKER_01: which,
35:49
SPEAKER_01: so at the time I had said Annals of the Former World by John McPhee.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: So no, still have not read that one, but I'm still fascinated and very intrigued by that one.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: One that I did read from my honorable mentions is The Brothers Karamatov.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's a good one.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: And you read that one too?
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Short Stories of Flannery O'Connor.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: I have not made any more progress, so that's not good.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Lazlo Krasnohorkai.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I did read, uh, Satan Tango.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: So, uh-huh.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: At least I got started.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: And with the great one.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: With the great one.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: And then two more that, um, I mentioned were the books of William T. Vollman.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: which I have not yet read, but I've continued to buy more of.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: So does that count for anything?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And we keep seeing it.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Those pop up a lot on my Instagram feed.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was Ryan Cartwright on Instagram responded to yours and does say,
36:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
36:47
SPEAKER_00: his bucket list he worries is fast becoming the place for books I want to,
36:51
SPEAKER_00: but may never read.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: And he does list...
36:55
SPEAKER_00: any Volman on there.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, absolutely.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: And then the one that I had retired, but I will say there's still a chance it could make a comeback.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Like we're in peace for you is infinite Jess by David Foster Wallace.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: I just continued to like, I don't know what to think of you guys are eyeing each other.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that before.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm trying to decide if I don't want to read that or if it's just more of
37:20
SPEAKER_01: the whole cult and his followers and stuff that turns me off more.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so go ahead on that.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: So I, the, the infinite jest that doesn't it needed a packaging redesign.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this the other day.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: You know,
37:38
SPEAKER_00: I post a lot of times people are reading it on the weekend,
37:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:41
SPEAKER_00: for what are you,
37:42
SPEAKER_00: what are you reading this weekend?
37:43
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, a baby blue cover with clouds and all of that has never been,
37:49
SPEAKER_00: appealing to me.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, there is all the stuff that you bring up.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: I do like David Foster Wallace's writing.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: I've always really liked his, the excerpts I've read or short stories or his essays.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Why don't I want to read that?
38:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think you might be onto something, but then I also realized,
38:07
SPEAKER_00: maybe I'm just super shallow and don't want to be toting around a big,
38:11
SPEAKER_00: that,
38:11
SPEAKER_00: that particular edition of it.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a fair point.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: It is not a great cover.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Even the font treatment is a little bit dated looking or kind of strange.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: So no, it's a good point.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised actually, because I don't think of that as an iconic cover.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm wrong.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Maybe some people do, but I feel like you're right.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: It could definitely use a refresh.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's a, you know, something that would give it a little more life for me at least.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: Will you, will you,
38:36
SPEAKER_00: if they make it a better cover promise to read this book, Paul, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it is funny.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: We talked about this before, but I love his essays, his nonfiction writing.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: I really like, and I know that he has some novellas and short stories.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: I probably need to kind of dip my toe in a little bit more into his fiction and
38:56
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a little bit about the,
38:58
SPEAKER_01: and this is something that'll come up a little later with another one of the books
39:01
SPEAKER_01: that I'm going to mention on my new or updated bucket list books is,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: is there is a tone,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: a little bit of that tone of the,
39:09
SPEAKER_01: the,
39:09
SPEAKER_01: the humor that I do sometimes struggle with in certain authors,
39:16
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:16
SPEAKER_01: so we can talk more about that,
39:17
SPEAKER_01: but yeah.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
39:20
SPEAKER_01: do you want to kind of dig in a little bit more to a couple of,
39:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:23
SPEAKER_01: we got lots of great feedback on some other people's bucket lists.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Jump on in there.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: So we mentioned Wendy earlier, but she had one where she mentioned quite a few that we've touched on.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: She says, my bucket list books are Don Quixote, Paradise Lost, and Every Surviving Greek Classic.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Fortunately, I started both Anna Karenina and War and Peace and realized Tolstoy just isn't for me.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: All me, of course.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm not nearly arrogant enough to say Tolstoy isn't good.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: I'd still like to give Proust another try, but he isn't on my bucket list.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: So I think those were some ones that come up on a lot of people's bucket lists, which makes total sense.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of those big,
40:00
SPEAKER_01: kind of intimidating,
40:02
SPEAKER_01: but also intriguing books that you just keep hearing about over and over again
40:05
SPEAKER_01: throughout your life.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: And Wendy does remind me of one that isn't on my list for today,
40:10
SPEAKER_00: but is definitely just one of those lifelong things of the Greek classics and plays
40:15
SPEAKER_00: and all of that.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm reading right now the third book in Pat Barker's Women of Troy books, The Voyage Home.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And it just reminds me how much.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: I love these plays and stories and how disturbing and,
40:31
SPEAKER_00: and weird and unique they are and how influential they are,
40:35
SPEAKER_00: how so many of them are the stories we continue to tell.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: So I'm with you on that, Wendy.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm also with you on another one that I will bring up in my in due time.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if I'm saying this right, but Demir the Serb mentions parallel stories by Peter Mados.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's, he says it's an 1100,
40:57
SPEAKER_01: page Hungarian novel.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: I've heard multiple people describe it as brilliant,
41:01
SPEAKER_01: but it's hard to carve out time for something that big.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll echo that.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: I haven't either,
41:06
SPEAKER_01: but it's on my big stack with The Garden of Seven Twilights and some of those other
41:11
SPEAKER_01: big books that are just sitting there.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: There's something about a big book that definitely
41:17
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting to see it's not just me.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's definitely one that ends up on a lot of people's bucket lists is just those big ones.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, is it Stuart or your good friend Stuart who said all the chunk ones?
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he did.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: That short, short answer.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: He did, but I wouldn't let him stay with that.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: So I asked him for specifics.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: He said Proust,
41:39
SPEAKER_01: the Russian chunks and the big postmodern books that I feel I would have to give up
41:43
SPEAKER_01: all my time and energy for like Gravity's Rainbow.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I just run out of reading stamina after a certain number of pages and start
41:49
SPEAKER_01: itching for the next read.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: So I think there's definitely something to that.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
41:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
41:55
SPEAKER_01: and we mentioned again,
41:57
SPEAKER_01: The Peasants,
41:57
SPEAKER_01: which I always forget to get the author's name,
41:59
SPEAKER_01: which makes your part of the show notes harder,
42:02
SPEAKER_01: but we've mentioned it in several episodes.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Like that's the one that I know he was reading late last year,
42:06
SPEAKER_01: but there's just something about those big ones that keep calling to you,
42:11
SPEAKER_01: but it also does the realities of life and everything sometimes do get in the way.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard to figure out the practicality.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: That may be a reason some of these books stay on your bucket list for so long.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: It isn't just, oh, I'm not quite ready for it.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: There is all that.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: I want to be more prepared.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: But it's also just practicality.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: When are you going to read all of these big ones that you want?
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Many of us have read several of them, but you can't read all of them at once.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: So it is just by the nature of who we are and the time...
42:42
SPEAKER_00: You can't get to all of them immediately, so the bucket list remains for many of us.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: I do like,
42:49
SPEAKER_00: while we were talking about reasons something might be on your bucket list,
42:51
SPEAKER_00: though,
42:54
SPEAKER_00: one of my favorite responses is from Nora,
42:56
SPEAKER_00: who has been on a couple of episodes with us.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: The one that comes to mind is Song of Night.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: it's my boyfriend's favorite book and I'd like not to die as a bad girlfriend.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: There's also something to be on the bucket list.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: There's also those other pressures.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: All right.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Great.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, should we get going on some of ours?
43:23
SPEAKER_00: We do have more that we can share as we, as we go forward.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: But, um, do you have, uh, uh, you're one of the ones you want to bring up?
43:31
SPEAKER_01: I do.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm just scrolling through all of our feedback to get to it.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: So I will kick off with,
43:37
SPEAKER_01: um,
43:38
SPEAKER_01: it's kind of cheating again,
43:39
SPEAKER_01: like I've done before,
43:39
SPEAKER_01: but it's,
43:40
SPEAKER_01: it's technically three books.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: It's the John Croner books by Adam Mars Jones.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: So specifically Pilcrow,
43:47
SPEAKER_01: but then there's also two more now,
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Cydia,
43:50
SPEAKER_01: and hopefully I'm saying this right,
43:51
SPEAKER_01: and is it Carrot or Coray?
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
43:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Carrot.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: I believe it's Carrot.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: That's how I always said it when we were doing type graphical stuff.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
44:02
SPEAKER_01: years and years ago,
44:03
SPEAKER_01: our good friend John Self was a huge champion of Adam Mars Jones' book Pilcrow when
44:09
SPEAKER_01: it first came out clear back in 2008.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: And he wrote a review on his blog that I know was very influential on you called Asylum.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: And at the time, he says, Adam Morris Jones is such a tease.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: First,
44:21
SPEAKER_01: he made us wait 10 years after being named one of the best young British novelists
44:24
SPEAKER_01: before actually publishing his superb first novel,
44:27
SPEAKER_01: The Waters of Thirst,
44:28
SPEAKER_01: in 1993.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Then his next book of fiction,
44:31
SPEAKER_01: twin novellas under the title Hypo Vanilla,
44:33
SPEAKER_01: has been coming and going from Faber's catalog since 1995 without ever actually appearing.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: It says,
44:39
SPEAKER_01: so,
44:40
SPEAKER_01: Mr.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: Morris Jones,
44:41
SPEAKER_01: with this 500-page novel springing unexpectedly up after all this time,
44:45
SPEAKER_01: you are really spoiling us at last.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's what he wrote about Pilgrim when it first came out.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: And he just wrote several different reviews and had interviews with Adam Morris
44:54
SPEAKER_01: Jones at the time that just fascinated me.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: And I instantly bought the book.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: But...
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've had years now to read not only that one, but the follow-up book as well.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: Something has always held me back from even starting them.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
45:08
SPEAKER_01: part of it is,
45:09
SPEAKER_01: yes,
45:09
SPEAKER_01: they are big books,
45:10
SPEAKER_01: but actually I'm pretty sure a lot of my reluctance is based on some of the scars
45:14
SPEAKER_01: that I've talked about before with authors like Robert Jordan and George R.R.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Martin,
45:19
SPEAKER_01: who come out with these series that are so intriguing and then they just drag them
45:22
SPEAKER_01: out to the point where either I lose interest or they just never finished these series.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: But now that there are three out,
45:30
SPEAKER_01: so Carrot just came out earlier this year,
45:32
SPEAKER_01: I think it might be finally time for me to jump in,
45:35
SPEAKER_01: although I'm afraid to find out if there are any more coming in this series.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Part of me would like to think,
45:40
SPEAKER_01: yes,
45:40
SPEAKER_01: the trilogy is finished,
45:41
SPEAKER_01: I can just start,
45:42
SPEAKER_01: and I know there's an end point,
45:43
SPEAKER_01: but I have not done...
45:45
SPEAKER_01: enough research i need to check in with john self to kind of see if he knows if
45:50
SPEAKER_01: there's going to be even more books coming out but um yeah i don't know these books
45:54
SPEAKER_01: just sound fascinating to me i don't know if you've i can't remember it have you
45:59
SPEAKER_00: read any of them i haven't read any of them and i have often thought i need to to
46:04
SPEAKER_00: buy them but haven't done that yet either okay um and as a
46:09
SPEAKER_00: As much as I've always wanted to get into them because of the same reasons that you said.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: But yes, now that the third one's out, I actually thought that was the end.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: But maybe it's just because we've been anticipating it for so long.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: We meaning, you know, me collectively with those who have actually read them and are excited about them.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: No,
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I hope I mean,
46:26
SPEAKER_01: I hope to selfishly that it is because it would be nice to have that,
46:30
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:31
SPEAKER_01: whatever decades long obsession of mine.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: kind of closed up,
46:34
SPEAKER_01: but the one thing I will say that you've been wise to hold off is I bought those,
46:38
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
46:39
SPEAKER_01: back in 2008,
46:39
SPEAKER_01: and then I think it was 2010 or 2011.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: I really loved the treatments that they gave them, the covers, but...
46:47
SPEAKER_01: The new one came out and it's completely different.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: And so they've re published all three of them and they're, they're beautiful.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: But now I'm like the age old bibliophiles dilemma of,
46:58
SPEAKER_01: do I keep the other two that I have and then get this weird odd third one?
47:03
SPEAKER_01: Or do I just bite the bullet and get all three of the new ones?
47:05
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the stresses go on and on.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: All, all, all fun.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: you know, but yeah.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm wondering if you're going to get to those Paul.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: It is on your bucket list.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: You have to,
47:20
SPEAKER_01: I have to,
47:21
SPEAKER_01: this will maybe give me a,
47:22
SPEAKER_01: you know,
47:22
SPEAKER_01: not that I needed even more of a push,
47:24
SPEAKER_01: but this will maybe give me even a little more of a motivation.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: All right.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: I will bring up one that I do think is,
47:30
SPEAKER_00: is one I've,
47:32
SPEAKER_00: I've talked about a little bit before,
47:35
SPEAKER_00: but it's always one of these books that I just know I'm going to enjoy reading.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: And I've had it forever.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: It's Henry James' Portrait of a Lady.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: I was actually surprised it wasn't on the first episode of our bucket list books
47:52
SPEAKER_00: because it's been on my bucket list for decades now.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: And I want to make it a special project.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: I've gotten supplementary books to read with it.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, though, I can't quite...
48:11
SPEAKER_00: Make the start.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: And it isn't,
48:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:14
SPEAKER_00: I think it's,
48:14
SPEAKER_00: again,
48:15
SPEAKER_00: similar to like when I did do War and Peace and even the Brothers Karamazov as a reread.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: I just sat down and said, I'm doing a chapter a day and here we go.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Boom.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: And I was I was off.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: It didn't take a whole lot to get over that that hump.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: but I haven't done that with portrait of a lady yet.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: I know you've read it and recommend it.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: And so I just need to, you know, right now, um, carve out the time and, and to do it.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: And so I, but I actually didn't, maybe I'm missing it.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: I hope,
48:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:45
SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm not forgetting somebody's,
48:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:48
SPEAKER_00: major comment that they wrote,
48:50
SPEAKER_00: but I didn't see a lot of Henry James or any Henry James writing.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: pop up on our listener feedback.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking that too, unless we missed it.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, that is an absolutely great one.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking forward to when you do read it because I think you'll love it.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: But I had the same thought because I didn't list Henry James on my bucket list,
49:11
SPEAKER_01: any of his other books,
49:12
SPEAKER_01: but he very easily could have been on there for a number of different books because
49:16
SPEAKER_01: I've always...
49:17
SPEAKER_01: been intrigued after reading just a couple of his books to kind of do a deep dive someday,
49:22
SPEAKER_01: or at the very least continue to chip away,
49:24
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:24
SPEAKER_01: the golden bowl and all these really huge,
49:26
SPEAKER_01: big,
49:26
SPEAKER_01: intimidating books,
49:27
SPEAKER_01: but that are also,
49:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:31
SPEAKER_01: beloved by so many.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: I think that would be a great choice.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, and, and again, there, it's not that people are not putting on like lists of authors.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, you, you've got Paul Bestley, right?
49:45
SPEAKER_00: who does kind of list several.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: He says, I am working my way through the classics.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: Proust, Joyce, Bronte, Modern, Hemingway, etc.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Contemporary, DFW, Boyd, McCarthy, McEwan, etc.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: As for bucket list books, I guess I don't know about those books yet.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Penin was a revelation, as was A Hundred Years of Solitude.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: So I keep buying these books I've never heard of because someone mentions them.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: Gogol, Incredible.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: I need more Russian, German, French.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: The list goes on and on.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: And I actually, when I thought, did anybody write about James, um, Henry James, I came to this post.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: I thought he must've listed him.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: And again,
50:22
SPEAKER_00: not because of anything wrong with that post or anything,
50:25
SPEAKER_00: but I,
50:26
SPEAKER_00: I was a little bit surprised that,
50:27
SPEAKER_00: uh,
50:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not,
50:28
SPEAKER_00: not just not seeing it by anybody.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: No,
50:30
SPEAKER_01: but I loved that part where he says,
50:32
SPEAKER_01: I keep buying these books I've never heard of because someone mentions them and
50:35
SPEAKER_01: then making these incredible discoveries because that's definitely a factor into
50:39
SPEAKER_01: all of this as well,
50:40
SPEAKER_01: which,
50:40
SPEAKER_01: um,
50:41
SPEAKER_01: you know, I think is a lot of the fun of all of this, but yeah.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: Well,
50:46
SPEAKER_01: we mentioned Proust,
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Robin Gustafson,
50:49
SPEAKER_01: when I posted,
50:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
50:51
SPEAKER_01: a request for people to share their favorites,
50:53
SPEAKER_01: I had included my very much earmarked copy of,
50:58
SPEAKER_01: of the Proust books that I finished a few years back.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: And she says, my bucket list is,
51:03
SPEAKER_01: includes the very same edition of Proust pictured in your posting,
51:06
SPEAKER_01: which sits right next to a set of Knauss cards,
51:08
SPEAKER_01: my struggle on my bucket list TBR shelves.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't be surprised if Knauss card wasn't on a lot of people's.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: And he's not necessarily on my bucket list, but he's definitely one that calls to me.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: And when I asked my wife just the other day,
51:22
SPEAKER_01: we were talking about this,
51:23
SPEAKER_01: about her bucket list,
51:25
SPEAKER_01: he was one that she mentioned as well.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: So I think he pops up on a lot of people's.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: Indeed, indeed.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, all right, Paul, what about your next one?
51:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay,
51:35
SPEAKER_01: well,
51:35
SPEAKER_01: I will jump over to another classic,
51:37
SPEAKER_01: Vanity Fair by William McPeace Thackeray,
51:40
SPEAKER_01: which,
51:41
SPEAKER_01: speaking of my wife,
51:42
SPEAKER_01: one of the reasons this one has continued to climb up my list and maybe gone from a
51:47
SPEAKER_01: it would be nice to read someday to a bucket list book that I would write in pen,
51:52
SPEAKER_01: so to speak,
51:53
SPEAKER_01: is because she read it several years ago and just absolutely loved it.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to speak for her,
51:58
SPEAKER_01: but I think she would probably describe it as one of her all-time favorites.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: favorite books, which obviously got my attention and made me even more excited about reading it.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know too much about it,
52:08
SPEAKER_01: but I know The Guardian ranked it as number 14 on its list of the 100 greatest
52:12
SPEAKER_01: novels of all time.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: And I liked their write-up about it.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: It says,
52:15
SPEAKER_01: Vanity Fair jumps out of this list as a great Victorian novel,
52:19
SPEAKER_01: which I will say is just catnip for me.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: I love the Victorians.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: And it says, written and published deep in the middle of a great age of English fiction.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: Indeed, so commanding was Thackeray at the height of his powers.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: Some say he never wrote as well or as sharply again.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: that Charlotte Bronte even dedicated Jane Eyre to the author of Vanity Fair.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Thackeray described it as a novel without a hero, and I'll just say that also kind of appeals to me.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: And they say the key to the novel's magic,
52:46
SPEAKER_01: in addition to the delight it takes in the Regency pageant,
52:49
SPEAKER_01: probably lies in the contrast between scheming Becky,
52:52
SPEAKER_01: one of fiction's great female protagonists,
52:54
SPEAKER_01: and awkward,
52:55
SPEAKER_01: dutiful William,
52:56
SPEAKER_01: whose unwavering love for Amelia mirrors Thackeray's own passion for another man's wife.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: So I think there's just so many things about this,
53:04
SPEAKER_01: you know,
53:05
SPEAKER_01: the Pilgrim's Progress kind of like Vanity Fair references,
53:08
SPEAKER_01: but also just the way that it continues to kind of,
53:12
SPEAKER_01: when a big Victorian book continues to pop up on these greatest books of all time,
53:17
SPEAKER_01: there's got to be some staying power to that for a reason,
53:20
SPEAKER_01: you know.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: That was on my – like when I sat down just to brainstorm on my list for sure.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: But it got removed not because I don't want to read it or like, oh, I guess that's not one of them.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: But it probably wasn't quite as intense a sensation of how much time it's been with
53:38
SPEAKER_00: me and how much time –
53:40
SPEAKER_00: how much time I've already put into thinking about when I read it.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: As these other ones.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: That's actually also a reason why on my list,
53:48
SPEAKER_00: and I noticed this and thought,
53:50
SPEAKER_00: should I try and do something to change this?
53:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any books in translation on my list.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: I hope listeners know I read a ton of books on translation, and there are lots that I still want to read.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: But again, thinking about this as a factor of time,
54:08
SPEAKER_00: Many books in translation I only learned about relatively recently compared to
54:15
SPEAKER_00: something like Portrait of a Lady,
54:16
SPEAKER_00: which probably back in high school,
54:19
SPEAKER_00: maybe I didn't want to read it necessarily,
54:21
SPEAKER_00: but at least started my,
54:23
SPEAKER_00: what is that all about?
54:24
SPEAKER_00: The sensation.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the reason why none of mine are going to be books in translation.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: But I will go into...
54:34
SPEAKER_00: One that for years and it came up on our episode with Nancy Pearl on libraries
54:38
SPEAKER_00: because she was thinking of listening to it.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: And I haven't... I can't remember if I followed up with her.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't have a memory of it to see if she actually did listen to it yet.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: I'll do that.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: But it's Winifred Holtby's South Riding.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: And this one has the benefit of being, I think, relatively to the rest of the books on my list, unknown.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: But still something that I've heard people talking about, like...
55:08
SPEAKER_00: around the corner you know quietly sharing as one of their favorite books or
55:12
SPEAKER_00: favorite reading experiences and so for years it's been this sense of intrigue that
55:18
SPEAKER_00: i keep on saying i'm going to read that i'm going to read that but it's it's a long
55:21
SPEAKER_00: one and i there but but the the voices around it have been so strong that i you
55:29
SPEAKER_00: know again
55:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited about it.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: And I do keep putting it on my, okay, this is the year.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: And then the year ends and I haven't done it.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: So that would be another one for me.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: My number, I'm not ranking these, but my,
55:43
SPEAKER_00: I guess if we're going five through one, my number four is South Writing by Winifred Holtby.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: And I particularly want to see now if Nancy Pearl did read it and what her thoughts were when she did.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: Will that push me into it or will she said, eh, it was all right.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: That's always the risk for sure,
56:03
SPEAKER_01: especially with somebody that we respect as much as we respect her opinions.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
56:06
SPEAKER_01: no,
56:06
SPEAKER_01: that's a really interesting point you brought up about,
56:08
SPEAKER_01: because I was thinking about that too,
56:10
SPEAKER_01: like translated fiction does not pop up on my lists either.
56:14
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's for the very same reason that you mentioned.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: And there's another thing that I noticed that I would have to look at the numbers
56:21
SPEAKER_01: to see for sure,
56:22
SPEAKER_01: but my ratio of men to women on this bucket list book is skewed much more towards
56:28
SPEAKER_01: men than a lot of my normal reading.
56:30
SPEAKER_01: I like to think that I read
56:32
SPEAKER_01: fairly evenly, and if anything, sometimes probably favoring more women than men.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reason,
56:38
SPEAKER_01: on these bucket list books,
56:39
SPEAKER_01: I was noticing there's definitely a trend towards male authors.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: And I do wonder if some of that is just due to kind of the nature of
56:47
SPEAKER_01: some classics and things like that kind of gravitating to my,
56:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
56:50
SPEAKER_01: they've been on my mind for decades and decades,
56:52
SPEAKER_01: and we all know how historically skewed towards males,
56:57
SPEAKER_01: you know,
56:57
SPEAKER_01: a lot of the classics have been,
56:59
SPEAKER_01: and luckily that is changing.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I would like to think that my bucket list will continue to evolve along with that.
57:04
SPEAKER_01: But,
57:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
57:05
SPEAKER_01: I thought about kind of trying to,
57:07
SPEAKER_01: to approach it and change that,
57:10
SPEAKER_01: but I just thought,
57:11
SPEAKER_00: no,
57:11
SPEAKER_01: I want to be honest about these are the books that I've been thinking about reading
57:15
SPEAKER_01: for a long time.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: And I just, but I do with
57:17
SPEAKER_01: think it's important to acknowledge,
57:18
SPEAKER_01: like they don't necessarily reflect some of the diversity that my normal reading
57:24
SPEAKER_01: life does,
57:24
SPEAKER_01: which is kind of an interesting thing to think about.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think it is because of how we approach this as a bucket list.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: It,
57:31
SPEAKER_00: it,
57:32
SPEAKER_00: again,
57:32
SPEAKER_00: it culture and the books that I've heard about the longest that again,
57:38
SPEAKER_00: I have been maybe on my mind the longest,
57:40
SPEAKER_00: but I still haven't read,
57:41
SPEAKER_00: um,
57:42
SPEAKER_00: tend to be more of that as well.
57:46
SPEAKER_00: I do have other books, at least one more I can think of right now, a book by a woman author on my list.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: But I've mentioned this in the past on this podcast.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: My high school...
58:00
SPEAKER_00: We maybe spent one day or maybe even a part of a day on Emily Dickinson,
58:05
SPEAKER_00: and she was the only woman author I read in high school other than some essays by
58:10
SPEAKER_00: Virginia Woolf when I was a senior.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: When we're talking about classic literature,
58:15
SPEAKER_00: I do think that,
58:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
58:17
SPEAKER_00: I was doing journalism and I know that I read articles and features and things by
58:22
SPEAKER_00: women authors before.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: But definitely very,
58:25
SPEAKER_00: very skewed and troublingly so skew of what books are worth reading,
58:31
SPEAKER_00: what books are worth thinking about.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: And I've been troubled by that, you know, ever since.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: I will say maybe another reason there aren't as many beyond the obvious ones.
58:45
SPEAKER_00: is i think i get to those sooner i was gonna say um maybe i'm making a bad excuse
58:51
SPEAKER_00: but but you know they they are they might be books that i'm more likely to say oh i
58:59
SPEAKER_00: do need to read that and actually go and read it no i mean except for the ones i
59:03
SPEAKER_00: put on my last bucket list exactly except for those
59:06
SPEAKER_01: No,
59:06
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking the same thing because,
59:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
59:08
SPEAKER_01: obviously something like Jane Austen,
59:09
SPEAKER_01: which she did on several people's lists.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've mentioned she was formational for me.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: I've read all of those multiple times, you know, or...
59:17
SPEAKER_01: The Brontes or,
59:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
59:19
SPEAKER_01: I still do have plenty of Virginia Woolf books that I need to read,
59:24
SPEAKER_01: but I've jumped on those immediately.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: I do think there's something to that.
59:27
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, this may not hold out either, but they're just better.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: They're just better.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: No, but I've I've said I have a weakness when it comes to these big books that make it to my bucket list.
59:39
SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are just big, chunky books.
59:41
SPEAKER_01: And historically,
59:43
SPEAKER_01: again,
59:43
SPEAKER_01: this may not hold up after fact checking,
59:45
SPEAKER_01: but I do think a lot of the really monster books over the centuries have been
59:50
SPEAKER_01: written by men.
59:51
SPEAKER_01: And I know there are exceptions,
59:52
SPEAKER_01: of course,
59:52
SPEAKER_01: you know,
59:52
SPEAKER_01: Dux Newberry Port and some of my very favorite big books have been written by women.
59:56
SPEAKER_01: But I'm just saying,
59:57
SPEAKER_01: generally speaking,
59:58
SPEAKER_01: that could also factor into some of this because a lot of the ones that potentially
1:00:02
SPEAKER_01: could have ended up here,
1:00:04
SPEAKER_01: were not only ones that I jumped on because they appealed to me like Jane Austen or
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: the Brontes,
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: but also realistically they were shorter.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_01: So that probably factored into me getting on them faster too.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot going on,
1:00:16
SPEAKER_01: but I'm just glad you mentioned that because it is something that kind of bothered
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: me as I was looking not only over these lists from three years ago,
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: but making my new list.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: But like I said,
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: I decided to kind of stick to the truth of like these books are the ones that have
1:00:30
SPEAKER_01: continued to haunt me.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me ask you this.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: So here,
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: one of the places I went,
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: because I did want to try and remember what are some books I've wanted to read for
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: a long time,
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: but still just haven't done,
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: but really genuinely want to read.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: And I went to that 100 Greatest British Novels list put together,
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember,
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: several years ago now,
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: but it was by the Jane Chibateri.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_00: She pulled 82 book critics from outside of the UK in order to put together this
1:00:59
SPEAKER_00: list of 100 greatest British novels for BBC culture.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: And here I'll just start.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: Number one is Middlemarch.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_00: Definitely deserves to be there.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: I have read it.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_00: If I hadn't, that would be on my bucket list.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: Number two, To the Lighthouse.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: I've read it.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: Also, I mean, it's on my bucket list to reread.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_00: Same with number three, which is Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Those are ones that I, you know, again, I've already read them and they're the top three.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: Then we get to Great Expectations by Charles Dickens,
1:01:30
SPEAKER_00: which I have read also since we started this podcast.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: But then we get Jane Eyre, read it.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: Bleak House...
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: That's my number three, Paul.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_00: It's not David Copperfield, which on this list is number eight.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: And the only reason is I thought,
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:01:47
SPEAKER_00: I'll be,
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest,
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: David Copperfield,
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: I want to read because of your enthusiasm and it has taken that spot.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_00: But I bought a copy of Bleak House 20 years ago that still sits there,
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: something I'm looking forward to,
1:02:01
SPEAKER_00: etc.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: Um,
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: but that's,
1:02:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:02:04
SPEAKER_00: that's on my,
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: my bucket list now,
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: but then we get Wuthering Heights,
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: which I've read.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the, to round out the top 10 is Frankenstein number nine and 10 is Vanity Fair.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: So again, I think that these, these canon titles are influencing us a lot.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: And I,
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: I really do feel like in many ways we've,
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: we've been,
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: we we've probably spent the last 20 years chipping away more at the,
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: uh,
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: The ones that are more interesting to us,
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: not that they're,
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: necessarily the best,
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: but,
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: George Eliot,
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: Virginia Woolf,
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: Jane Austen,
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: the Brontes.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad for that.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: That's why maybe some of these other books are still on my bucket list.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_01: No, for sure.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Middlemarch is a great example of that.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_01: what I said, if we did fact checking, that's a huge book written by a woman.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like you said, we both read that one.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_01: So no, it does.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's good or bad,
1:03:02
SPEAKER_01: not like it's a contest,
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: but the fact that I think I'd read all of those except for Vanity Fair is,
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: is,
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: exciting to me personally,
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: just because I like,
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: there is something,
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: I know that these great book lists can be problematic or some people don't
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: necessarily like that they're put up on this pedestal,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: but I,
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: I think I still appreciate having these lists and I take it with a grain of salt.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, if it's a book that doesn't appeal to me, it doesn't matter what list it's on.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_01: But I do love that there's these treasure troves of these are books that have meant
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: a lot to a lot of people for a long time.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_01: I think there's still value there.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: So no, I'm thrilled to hear Bleak House.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_01: is on your list.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned rereading.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: that's something else that factors into all this is Middlemarch,
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: To the Lighthouse and Bleak House and David Copperfield.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would love to reread all of those.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: I could sit there and just reread when I read the opening passages episode,
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: the part about the fog and Bleak House.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: I think I could read that every day of my life and get extreme value and joy out of it.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to reading that one.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm excited about it.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: And I am rereading Middlemarch.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it's later this year on our George Eliot read along.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: I would have a George Eliot book on my list, but we just finished The Mill on the Floss.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to finish Silas Marner probably in the next couple of days.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, well, those are the two I haven't read yet.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_00: that now I have that I would like to would have put on my bucket list.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: The ones that still remain like Daniel Deronda, Felix Holt and Ramola.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: I've not read those either, but I wouldn't call them bucket list books.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_00: And I am going to get to them this next over the next year because that's what we're doing.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_00: It's been so great to definitely recommend that putting a George Eliot
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: completionist read along in your,
1:04:54
SPEAKER_00: in your future.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: That's a good bucket list thing is more of a bucket list project.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_01: I would love to do that.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I own almost all of those that you mentioned, but have only read a couple of them.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_01: So no, that's a great one.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_01: All right, should I move on to my next one or?
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I gave you two there, right?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: You still have three left?
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: I still have three left.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: No, that's fine.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_01: Mine, I will segue in with a piece of reader feedback that ties directly into mine.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: Augustine on Instagram says,
1:05:25
SPEAKER_01: I've begun and quit Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon about the 50 page mark
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: three times one day,
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: dot,
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: dot,
1:05:33
SPEAKER_01: dot.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: And yes, that is one that I...
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: When I mentioned David Foster Wallace earlier,
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: I think I have some of the same issues with Thomas Pynchon as I do with David
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: Foster Wallace,
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: which I'm wrestling with because I don't think they're always fair.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's around this cult that has sprung up around them that sometimes I've
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: mentioned how reader enthusiasm can kind of draw me in.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: And other times it can kind of have the opposite effect.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: And this one is both.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: Both of those things are true.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: I know, like I said, you recently read The Crying of Lot 49.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_01: I have yet to pick up anything.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, I take that back.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: I've purchased quite a few.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: You picked up a lot of them.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: But I haven't actually read them.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: And I was recently listening to an episode of Beyond the Zero, that wonderful podcast.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: And I heard Ben,
1:06:19
SPEAKER_01: the host,
1:06:20
SPEAKER_01: and Andre from The Untranslated,
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: who's one of the most amazing bloggers out there,
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: talking about Gravity's Rainbow.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_01: And they pulled me back in.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: They both said they are constantly reading to chase the high of Gravity's Rainbow.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_01: Every time they pick up a book,
1:06:37
SPEAKER_01: it's in the hopes of reaching the pinnacle that they reached when they were reading
1:06:40
SPEAKER_01: Gravity's Rainbow.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of stuff that
1:06:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't ignore that kind of thing.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_01: Andre was asked to rank his Desert Island books.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: He ranked this one number one on his list.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: And he is just one of those readers that I respect so much.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: So yes, I've mentioned before how I'm so susceptible to other readers' enthusiasms.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: This is another case where it's really happening.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_01: So yes, it's a book I've always been interested in, but I've just had this back and forth like, ah, no.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: And just hearing Ben, Andre, Chris Avea,
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: All of them rank this book as so high on their list that it just keeps pulling me back in.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: I found this review that I thought was pretty funny from 1973 when the New York
1:07:22
SPEAKER_01: Times reviewed it when it first came out.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: It says, Gravity's Rainbow is longer, darker, and more difficult...
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: than his first two books.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: it is the longest,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: most difficult,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: and most ambitious novel to appear here since Nabokov's Ada four years ago.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_01: And then they say,
1:07:37
SPEAKER_01: it's bone-crushingly dense,
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: compulsively elaborate,
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: silly,
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: obscene,
1:07:43
SPEAKER_01: funny,
1:07:44
SPEAKER_01: tragic,
1:07:45
SPEAKER_01: pastoral,
1:07:46
SPEAKER_01: historical,
1:07:47
SPEAKER_01: philosophical,
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: poetic,
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: grindingly dull,
1:07:50
SPEAKER_01: inspired,
1:07:51
SPEAKER_01: horrific,
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: cold,
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: bloated,
1:07:53
SPEAKER_01: beached,
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: and blasted.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, every other word I'm like, yes, no.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, no.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: It's like that meme where that lady takes a drink of the beer and she goes through
1:08:04
SPEAKER_01: like 10 different expressions.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of how I feel reading that.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_01: I just can't quite let this one go.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I think Ben and Andre and Chris might have actually
1:08:16
SPEAKER_01: solidified this one pushing it from a maybe maybe not it's always on my mind up on
1:08:21
SPEAKER_01: to what i would actually call a bucket list book because when somebody as smart as
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: them says they're basically reading to chase the high of ever getting you know back
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: to that feeling they had reading this book i mean that kind of stuff i can't say no
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: to oh they're they're they're going hallelujah we've converted them exactly i know
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: And definitely you said Pynchon was on my last like honorable mentions, a variety of his.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: And I have that.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: And Mason Dixon sounds so intriguing to me against the day.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_00: I still remember when that came out and going to the bookstore and seeing it and thinking,
1:08:58
SPEAKER_00: do I want to pick that up?
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_01: I know.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: I was in a used bookstore.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_01: This was within last year.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_01: And the lady was sitting at the front desk and she was reading The Crying of Lot 49.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_01: And I started just chatting with her about kind of talking about some of these same things.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: And she said that she rereads the opening few lines of that.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember how often she said, but often.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_01: And she said that it like just,
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: it was so beautiful that it basically brought tears to her eyes almost every time.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_01: And those are the kind of experiences like,
1:09:28
SPEAKER_01: so many people having that experience with pinch on you know like i said there's
1:09:32
SPEAKER_01: something about these bucket list books where you realize over time to impact that
1:09:36
SPEAKER_01: many people so strongly i can't say no to that or i can't write it off you know i
1:09:41
SPEAKER_01: have to take that seriously so yeah i don't know very intriguing nice all right
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: well my next one um it will be one that that i talked about a little bit earlier
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: well i i mentioned earlier when we read wendy's comment
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: It'll come up again.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: And it is Milton's Paradise Lost.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_00: I've wanted to read this for a long time.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: And I've always thought, oh, I'll get to it someday.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_00: But it's just always kind of there.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't know the best edition that I want to get.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_00: I actually go online and look and see what companion reading would be great with it.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: And I still don't entirely know.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: But definitely my interest has been... Every time I'm reading Dante...
1:10:32
SPEAKER_00: which has been several times over the last few years.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Oh, and I need to read paradise lost as well, but I still haven't done it.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_00: But potentially one of the things that most rekindled my, I've got it.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: I've got to do that was reading those Beth Brower books that I've brought up before
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: the unselected journals of Emma M.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_00: Lion,
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: that stack of like eight books and with many,
1:10:57
SPEAKER_00: many,
1:10:57
SPEAKER_00: many more coming that have just been so delightful and,
1:11:01
SPEAKER_00: Um,
1:11:01
SPEAKER_00: there's a part where,
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:11:03
SPEAKER_00: Emma is,
1:11:03
SPEAKER_00: is a reader,
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: um,
1:11:05
SPEAKER_00: doesn't have access to a ton of books,
1:11:07
SPEAKER_00: which is kind of a part of the plot and everything.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's always a treasure when she gets one and she treats it, even the ones she doesn't like.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_00: treats it like something worth grappling with and engaging with.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Paradise Lost is one of the books that she gets that she's able to go through.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think it may be the one that was her father's edition that had like drawings
1:11:31
SPEAKER_00: and some of his things in it that just meant so much to her.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_00: And for whatever reason, that just really made my desire to get to this project even more important.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, John Milton's Paradise Lost.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm with you, Wendy.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know exactly.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_00: Again, I keep looking at, I think there's the long minute.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I've looked at various ones because I want to get one that has maybe some good
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: extra reading or the way it's presented on the page is just my style.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm being very picky.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a bucket list book.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: I think you should be picky.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_01: No, that's a great one.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_01: I've talked before about how we signed up when we first got married for the Easton
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: Press's 100 Greatest Books Ever Written and they send them regularly and we have a
1:12:24
SPEAKER_01: nice leather bound version.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_01: I know I dug into it at one point to just look at the pictures and
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: I haven't read it,
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: but I don't know how it would hold up as far as like formatting and extra material,
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: but no,
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: that's a great one.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_01: And I was actually just thinking about that within the last couple of weeks,
1:12:40
SPEAKER_01: because we've been watching the series,
1:12:43
SPEAKER_01: His Dark Materials that came out recently on HBO.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_01: And I was just thinking about, you know, the impact of somebody like Milton where a drop
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: a throwaway line like his dark materials just becomes like something that has a
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: whole life of its own from that book.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about that in reference to like,
1:13:05
SPEAKER_01: I finally got to Borges recently,
1:13:07
SPEAKER_01: one of those huge gaps in my reading knowledge.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_01: And there's just those certain authors where they almost just become such a part of
1:13:13
SPEAKER_01: the culture that you don't even think about it anymore.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_01: And Paradise Lost is absolutely an example of that.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_01: So I beyond everything else,
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: I think that that appeal to it is just once you read it,
1:13:25
SPEAKER_01: you would probably see it popping up even more places than you realize now.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_00: And again,
1:13:34
SPEAKER_00: somebody on Instagram several months ago posted,
1:13:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:13:38
SPEAKER_00: here's my the best thing for Paradise Lost.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: And I've been looking for it ever since.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: I can't quite figure out if it's it or not.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_00: But it may have been the long one, annotated one by Fowler.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_00: I think that was it.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_00: But here's the issue.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: It's so expensive every time I look into it.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_00: That may be another reason why I haven't quite picked it up yet.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: Because now I'm like, well, the edition I want is out there, a little bit out of my price range.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_00: But we'll see.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you could do like a combined birthday, Christmas present or something.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_01: But no, it's something that comes up.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_01: from time to time where there's these other factors,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: either obscurity or cost that factor into all this as well.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute, but not for my next one.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_01: My fourth one is the complete essays of Michel du Montaigne.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_01: This is a fairly new entry on my list, actually.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_01: We talk about a lot of these.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_01: They're there for a reason.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_01: But this one, I bet you can guess how it got there, Trevor.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_01: I know how this one got there.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_01: I had actually added it to my Amazon wish list years and years ago because I'd
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: heard it come up,
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: obviously,
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: from time to time.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: But reading Mark Haber's forthcoming book, Lesser Ruins, which we've talked about quite a bit,
1:14:56
SPEAKER_01: did inspire me to bump it up on my list,
1:14:59
SPEAKER_01: specifically because the main character of that book is writing a book-length essay
1:15:03
SPEAKER_01: on Montaigne.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: And even though Lesser Ruins doesn't necessarily get into that much detail about
1:15:08
SPEAKER_01: the book itself,
1:15:10
SPEAKER_01: it's just one of those where I started thinking about it again,
1:15:12
SPEAKER_01: and that prompted me to start kind of just Googling and looking at reviews about it
1:15:16
SPEAKER_01: and
1:15:18
SPEAKER_01: The description of it just sounds so fascinating to me because I've talked about
1:15:21
SPEAKER_01: before on here how much I really love essays.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_01: That's just a form that really appeals to me.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_01: And Montaigne was obviously a huge influential figure of the Renaissance,
1:15:31
SPEAKER_01: single-handedly responsible for popularizing the essay as a literary form.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_01: So that right there is appealing to me.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_01: But then when I go on and read more about the description, it says,
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: In 1572, he retired to his estates in order to devote himself to leisure, reading, and reflection.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_01: So he's living our dream there.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_01: There he wrote his constantly expanding essays inspired by the ideas he found in
1:15:55
SPEAKER_01: books contained in his library and from his own experience.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_01: He discusses subjects as diverse as warhorses and cannibals, poetry and politics,
1:16:03
SPEAKER_01: sex and religion, love and friendship, ecstasy and experience.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_01: But above all,
1:16:08
SPEAKER_01: he studied himself as a way of drawing out his own inner nature and that of men and
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: women in general.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_01: And it says the essays are among the most idiosyncratic and personal works in all
1:16:18
SPEAKER_01: literature and provide an engaging insight into a wise Renaissance mind.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_01: continuing to give pleasure and enlightenment to the modern readers.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_01: So again, Mark was kind of the prompt for me to just remember why I'd had that on my list.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_01: Cause I know at some point it had called out to me,
1:16:34
SPEAKER_01: but just,
1:16:35
SPEAKER_01: it's one of those that it's like an earworm.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_01: Now that it's in my head,
1:16:37
SPEAKER_01: I can't get rid of it to the point where it rose up and I'm going to just go ahead
1:16:42
SPEAKER_01: and start digging into these because the very fact that they're essays,
1:16:45
SPEAKER_01: I think I could mix them in with my other reading,
1:16:47
SPEAKER_01: but just hearing all the topics,
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: The fact that it's self-reflection,
1:16:51
SPEAKER_01: the fact that it was inspired by his own reading,
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: all of those things are very appealing to me.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's my number four.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_00: I would recommend to you and to anybody going into that to also look at a book that
1:17:05
SPEAKER_00: was published by Europa a few years ago called A Summer with Montaigne.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's by Antoine Compagno.
1:17:15
SPEAKER_00: and translated by Tina Cover.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: And he was asked to host a radio broadcast for an entire summer every day on
1:17:26
SPEAKER_00: Montaigne.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_00: And these are like the essays that he himself put together as he's going through.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_00: It's 40 episodes, but also 40 chapters in this book.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_00: And very, very, very good.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_00: I have not engaged the way that I would like to with either one of them,
1:17:45
SPEAKER_00: Montaigne or A Summer with Montaigne,
1:17:47
SPEAKER_00: but I've sampled,
1:17:49
SPEAKER_00: probably read a handful in each.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_00: And very, very enjoyable way to
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: to maybe dig into that.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:18:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, that's the exception to the rule of one that was not one that's been on my mind.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:18:05
SPEAKER_01: I guess it has been in some ways for decades,
1:18:07
SPEAKER_01: but it was kind of had a recent resurgence,
1:18:10
SPEAKER_01: shall we say.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_00: And definitely deserving of that.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, I will give my final one.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's a little bit less traditional than the other ones because it's an author that I have loved.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_00: And this is the next book on my list as I read through her books.
1:18:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's been years that I've wanted to read it now, you know,
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: But my wife has read it and keeps telling me how,
1:18:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:18:48
SPEAKER_00: it's something that she brings up quite often in our conversations.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_00: And like Nora, like, well, I got to be able to communicate with my wife.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_00: But she especially talks about how much it feels like modern Instagram influencer culture.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_00: This is Edith Wharton's Customs of the Country.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_00: And I put this one as my number one because I think I need to...
1:19:12
SPEAKER_00: I was going to ask you the same question.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_00: Of all these books on your bucket list, is there one that you say, okay, it's coming up.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm not just going to make this list...
1:19:24
SPEAKER_00: And then in five years,
1:19:25
SPEAKER_00: revisit it and think,
1:19:26
SPEAKER_00: oh,
1:19:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:19:27
SPEAKER_00: but do you have goals to make some of these goals,
1:19:32
SPEAKER_00: some of these reading goals happen?
1:19:36
SPEAKER_00: And this is the one that I need to I'm going to do that with.
1:19:39
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to pull it down.
1:19:41
SPEAKER_00: and figure out my,
1:19:42
SPEAKER_00: my,
1:19:43
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:19:43
SPEAKER_00: kind of get a sense as to how long the chapters are and maybe start doing this as a
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: chapter a day kind of thing too,
1:19:49
SPEAKER_00: over the next little bit.
1:19:50
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
1:19:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:19:51
SPEAKER_01: no,
1:19:52
SPEAKER_01: like you and Nora,
1:19:52
SPEAKER_01: I think if I had to prioritize one and for the very same reasons to be a good
1:19:57
SPEAKER_01: husband is like the extra cherry on top vanity fair.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_01: Cause like I said, it's the same kind of thing that you just described.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_01: My wife brings it up, you know, fairly regularly and it was such an influential thing.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_01: part of her reading life and um so that gives me a little bit of an extra
1:20:12
SPEAKER_01: motivation to do it so remind me customs of the country is that do you know roughly
1:20:18
SPEAKER_00: is that a really long book is that a i think it's about the same as the age of
1:20:22
SPEAKER_00: innocence and um the the house of mirth i i don't know specifically but it doesn't
1:20:29
SPEAKER_00: strike me as like short or long like in the three to five hundred page range or
1:20:33
SPEAKER_01: something like that yeah very cool
1:20:36
SPEAKER_01: No, that's a great one.
1:20:37
SPEAKER_01: I love Edith Wharton, and I've not read that one either.
1:20:40
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: and there was the exception to our,
1:20:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:20:44
SPEAKER_01: there was a couple of female authors that have come up.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got two.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, you're welcome, Paul.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_00: Again,
1:20:53
SPEAKER_00: not that it's not worth grappling with the reason why,
1:20:56
SPEAKER_00: and also not that it means you have to manipulate your list in order to do that.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: Though,
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: of course,
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: at times,
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: maybe that is the way to approach some of this,
1:21:06
SPEAKER_00: but to just be able to address it.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I've got...
1:21:09
SPEAKER_00: Her and Winifred Holtby on my bucket list.
1:21:12
SPEAKER_00: And to be honest with you,
1:21:14
SPEAKER_00: they're probably the two I'm going to read soonest on this list that I just gave too.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: No,
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: I do think there's some,
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: again,
1:21:22
SPEAKER_01: not giving ourselves an excuse,
1:21:23
SPEAKER_01: but I do think there's some legitimacy to that idea.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_01: It does seem like we are drawn to the women authors to read them.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_01: First,
1:21:29
SPEAKER_01: speaking of,
1:21:30
SPEAKER_01: one of the books that probably could have qualified on my bucket list just based on,
1:21:36
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:21:38
SPEAKER_01: reputation and length that i did get to this year was by the person who said this
1:21:43
SPEAKER_01: about my last book she says one of the real achievements of our time miss
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: richardson has achieved a miracle of performance and that was rebecca west who i
1:21:53
SPEAKER_01: mentioned earlier probably could have at some point been on my bucket list for
1:21:57
SPEAKER_01: black lamb and gray falcon but yeah the books that she's referring to are the
1:22:01
SPEAKER_01: number one on my list and it's pilgrimage by dorothy richardson
1:22:06
SPEAKER_01: This series just continues to call to me.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a sequence of four novels.
1:22:11
SPEAKER_01: And it has come up quite a bit recently on social media,
1:22:15
SPEAKER_01: thanks in large part to our friend Brad over at Neglected Books,
1:22:18
SPEAKER_01: who led a read-along a few years ago.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_01: And he's been making a push actually to redo that read-along.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the reason that it has kind of prompted me to do that.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_01: And he actually recently was trying to drum up support because I mentioned books that are hard to find.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_01: In the US, these books are hard to find.
1:22:39
SPEAKER_01: There's no readily available editions out there.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_01: And so Brad recently tweeted,
1:22:47
SPEAKER_01: I think it was last month,
1:22:48
SPEAKER_01: he tagged the new editorial director over at Virago,
1:22:51
SPEAKER_01: trying to get it back in print in the US.
1:22:52
SPEAKER_01: And he says,
1:22:54
SPEAKER_01: If you try to get a new copy of Pilgrimage volume one on Amazon in the US,
1:22:58
SPEAKER_01: this is the ridiculous option you're presented.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_01: A $64 copy of a paperback from 1989.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: Pilgrimage is one of the great works of the 20th century.
1:23:06
SPEAKER_01: This situation is criminal.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_01: So,
1:23:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:23:09
SPEAKER_01: again,
1:23:10
SPEAKER_01: being susceptible to readers I trust saying it's one of the great works of the 20th century.
1:23:15
SPEAKER_01: And then our friend Kim wrote,
1:23:18
SPEAKER_01: I think of Dorothy Richardson's Pilgrimage in our Pilgrimage Together group read at
1:23:22
SPEAKER_01: least weekly.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those that comes up often.
1:23:27
SPEAKER_01: And then Louis Panini,
1:23:28
SPEAKER_01: he says,
1:23:29
SPEAKER_01: she abhorred the term stream of consciousness,
1:23:33
SPEAKER_01: speaking of the author,
1:23:34
SPEAKER_01: but she's credited with implementing it in a work of literature before Wolfe,
1:23:38
SPEAKER_01: Joyce,
1:23:38
SPEAKER_01: and Proust.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_01: And he said, I spent years looking for this set.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_01: This is a post he made back in 2023.
1:23:44
SPEAKER_01: And he posted this beautiful edition that he found of Pilgrimage from Dent, the publisher Dent.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_01: And there are these four beautiful hardbacks that he published.
1:23:51
SPEAKER_01: So again,
1:23:53
SPEAKER_01: going back to the theme of me being susceptible to,
1:23:55
SPEAKER_01: it's not hype,
1:23:56
SPEAKER_01: but just the passion of readers I trust.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_01: That's been a big part of why I want to read these books.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
1:24:05
SPEAKER_01: from the publisher's synopsis of the pilgrimage books,
1:24:08
SPEAKER_01: it says,
1:24:09
SPEAKER_01: this was the first expression in English of what is to be called stream of consciousness,
1:24:13
SPEAKER_01: predating the works of both Joyce and Wolf,
1:24:16
SPEAKER_01: echoing that of Proust,
1:24:17
SPEAKER_01: with whom Dorothy Richardson stands as one of the great innovative figures of our time.
1:24:23
SPEAKER_01: So again, it's just, oh,
1:24:25
SPEAKER_01: I love all the authors that they're mentioning.
1:24:28
SPEAKER_01: I love this idea of kind of the stream of consciousness birth and above everything else,
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: it's just how much this book,
1:24:36
SPEAKER_01: these books have meant to so many people that I trust has prompted me to move it up.
1:24:41
SPEAKER_01: So with the caveat that I do not own them.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of maybe my,
1:24:46
SPEAKER_01: my bucket list of beginnings is to search and try to find some good copies of these.
1:24:51
SPEAKER_01: I would love to find those, but the versions that, uh,
1:24:55
SPEAKER_01: Louis Panini posted because they're gorgeous.
1:24:57
SPEAKER_01: But the fact that he spent years trying to track them down and finally found them
1:25:01
SPEAKER_01: and Brad commented on that and said,
1:25:02
SPEAKER_01: these are by far the best editions if you can find them.
1:25:05
SPEAKER_01: But I would be very happy with the old 1980s Virago editions if that's what it comes to.
1:25:10
SPEAKER_01: But I would love to think that maybe one of the publishers out there is trying to
1:25:15
SPEAKER_01: figure out a way to get these back because it does seem like there's a groundswell
1:25:18
SPEAKER_01: of renewed enthusiasm building for them right now.
1:25:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
1:25:23
SPEAKER_00: this one is one that I thought about,
1:25:26
SPEAKER_00: but again,
1:25:26
SPEAKER_00: it's pretty fresh in my idea of,
1:25:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:25:32
SPEAKER_00: I hadn't had a desire to read them.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I'd really known too much about them until all that read along
1:25:39
SPEAKER_00: and that groundswell that you're talking about.
1:25:42
SPEAKER_00: came about and i can see this becoming more of the thing that just makes it like i
1:25:48
SPEAKER_00: know i need to read that i'm looking right now there's the great is it there's a
1:25:52
SPEAKER_00: knopf um boxed set hardback looks looks really really great it's near fine um
1:26:02
SPEAKER_00: condition 1967 for 500 dollars um
1:26:07
SPEAKER_00: so i take it back very affordable it does look it looks like a nice uh a nice set
1:26:14
SPEAKER_01: but yes yes that i know it's tricky and and like you know again it's not that
1:26:19
SPEAKER_01: they're you can find some you know they're not all that priced by any means but
1:26:23
SPEAKER_01: it's more just the fact of like 1989 was the last time that these really came out
1:26:29
SPEAKER_01: in any kind of like new format it's just very surprising given the resurgence that
1:26:34
SPEAKER_01: we've all talked about with
1:26:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm not calling anybody out because I'm sure there are many factors going in,
1:26:39
SPEAKER_01: but just the fact that there are so many publishers out there who are specifically
1:26:43
SPEAKER_01: going back and bringing back some of these hidden treasures that we've talked about,
1:26:47
SPEAKER_01: it's pretty surprising that one like this hasn't been brought out.
1:26:50
SPEAKER_01: So maybe there's something going on.
1:26:51
SPEAKER_01: Maybe somebody listening knows something.
1:26:53
SPEAKER_01: some secret dirt, but I'm guessing if anybody would, it might be Brad.
1:26:55
SPEAKER_01: And he seems to think it's not quite to that point yet, but maybe that would be cool.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're, they're, they're big too.
1:27:02
SPEAKER_00: You know,
1:27:03
SPEAKER_00: do you,
1:27:03
SPEAKER_00: do you go for all four at once and risk that people buy number one and never make
1:27:08
SPEAKER_00: it through the 500 page first book.
1:27:12
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, you know, you're, you've dedicated your resources to four books.
1:27:18
SPEAKER_00: modern stream of consciousness,
1:27:20
SPEAKER_00: the books that,
1:27:21
SPEAKER_00: that,
1:27:22
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:27:22
SPEAKER_00: I get,
1:27:22
SPEAKER_00: I get the,
1:27:23
SPEAKER_00: the,
1:27:24
SPEAKER_00: the practicalities of all this,
1:27:25
SPEAKER_00: but yes,
1:27:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm with you.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_00: I,
1:27:27
SPEAKER_00: I,
1:27:27
SPEAKER_00: I hope that,
1:27:29
SPEAKER_00: I hope that someone is putting them together and I hope that if they do that,
1:27:33
SPEAKER_00: they're,
1:27:33
SPEAKER_00: um,
1:27:35
SPEAKER_00: well compensated for it.
1:27:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_01: I, we started this off saying that one of our definitions of a, um,
1:27:43
SPEAKER_01: bucket list book was that it had been one that had been on your your mind for
1:27:47
SPEAKER_01: decades and my first two did qualify but now that i'm thinking about it it's kind
1:27:52
SPEAKER_01: of funny because the last three to some degree gravity's rainbow the essays of
1:27:56
SPEAKER_01: montaigne and this one
1:27:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:27:59
SPEAKER_01: they have all been on my radar to some degree for at least years,
1:28:03
SPEAKER_01: but they don't necessarily qualify as ones that have been on there for decades.
1:28:06
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I'll give myself an excuse.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_01: I knocked so many off of my previous bucket list,
1:28:12
SPEAKER_01: but I just had to scramble and find some new ones to put on there.
1:28:14
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not that.
1:28:16
SPEAKER_01: It's just funny.
1:28:16
SPEAKER_01: It shows that even an idea like this, that I think I have an idea,
1:28:21
SPEAKER_01: The more we talk about it, it's why I love these conversations so much.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_01: There's some nuance there.
1:28:25
SPEAKER_01: Some of these have been,
1:28:26
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:28:27
SPEAKER_01: some upstarts and some dark horses that have made their way on to my list in recent years.
1:28:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of fun.
1:28:34
SPEAKER_00: That is fun.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_00: And it's really cool.
1:28:36
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's encouraging to put this stuff together and to think about them.
1:28:43
SPEAKER_00: But it is fun to think of, you know, how has it changed?
1:28:47
SPEAKER_00: Because, yeah, even even me, I mentioned Custom of the Country and Paradise Lost there at the end.
1:28:53
SPEAKER_00: They're books I've known about for a long time,
1:28:55
SPEAKER_00: but I would say the more intense part has been more recent.
1:28:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:28:59
SPEAKER_00: Of my desire to read them.
1:29:02
SPEAKER_00: yeah, it'll be fun to see how these pan out over the next little while.
1:29:06
SPEAKER_00: And,
1:29:06
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:29:07
SPEAKER_00: again,
1:29:07
SPEAKER_00: I had not really gone back and listened to our old bucket list episode until you
1:29:11
SPEAKER_00: had recently and told me about that.
1:29:13
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, Oh, I'll go do that too.
1:29:15
SPEAKER_00: And I do still want to read those.
1:29:17
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe this will remind me and get me going on those old bucket list books too.
1:29:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:29:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you mentioned that.
1:29:23
SPEAKER_00: The old bucket list.
1:29:24
SPEAKER_00: The old ones.
1:29:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:29:25
SPEAKER_00: The old me.
1:29:26
SPEAKER_01: That's something I was going to ask you and I'm glad you brought it up.
1:29:28
SPEAKER_01: Cause I have the same thing.
1:29:29
SPEAKER_01: Even,
1:29:30
SPEAKER_01: Some of the ones that I mentioned that I didn't get to,
1:29:33
SPEAKER_01: or some of the ones that were my honorable mentions,
1:29:36
SPEAKER_01: or some of the ones on your lists,
1:29:38
SPEAKER_01: like those Tim Robinson books definitely have been on mine and they could have
1:29:42
SPEAKER_01: qualified very easily.
1:29:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's fun.
1:29:45
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the whole idea of, you know, like we've talked about good.
1:29:48
SPEAKER_01: I still have that to look forward to.
1:29:50
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:29:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:29:51
SPEAKER_01: And speaking of, I'll close out.
1:29:52
SPEAKER_01: I saw there was another tweet that I saw that it was on the Paris Review tweeted it out,
1:29:58
SPEAKER_01: but it was from Kinzaburo Oi,
1:30:01
SPEAKER_01: that author.
1:30:03
SPEAKER_01: And he had a quote that says,
1:30:04
SPEAKER_01: every morning I have woken up knowing that I will never run out of books to read.
1:30:09
SPEAKER_01: And I loved that.
1:30:10
SPEAKER_01: I thought that tied right into that whole discussion we've had many times about,
1:30:14
SPEAKER_01: rather than that being daunting,
1:30:16
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a great,
1:30:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:30:19
SPEAKER_01: encouraging and fun way to look at the world is just it's so nice to know whether
1:30:24
SPEAKER_01: they're bucket list books or the latest one that just came down the pike it's so
1:30:27
SPEAKER_01: nice to know we're never going to run out of books to read yep and then the
1:30:31
SPEAKER_00: excitement and thrill of of even the ones that have been beat part of your beating
1:30:36
SPEAKER_00: heart for a while you know i know and then to transform them into something of your
1:30:40
SPEAKER_00: life you know that when you finally do have that experience
1:30:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:30:43
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
1:30:44
SPEAKER_00: All right, Paul.
1:30:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you have a great rest of this day and rest of this weekend.
1:30:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, listeners, I hope you're having a good June, you know, um, it, the nights are longer.
1:30:55
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean more reading, less reading?
1:30:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't know.
1:30:58
SPEAKER_00: I wonder how, how it goes for people.
1:31:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, you know, I kind of tend to think of, of my longer reading nights as the winter nights.
1:31:08
SPEAKER_00: Um,
1:31:09
SPEAKER_00: But I've been doing all right.
1:31:11
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not quite as much reading.
1:31:13
SPEAKER_01: I would say, I don't know.
1:31:15
SPEAKER_01: I've actually been reading outside a lot.
1:31:17
SPEAKER_01: I think these long summer nights,
1:31:19
SPEAKER_01: I love sitting out on the hammock or out at our little patio table and just kind of
1:31:25
SPEAKER_01: soaking in all the smells and just relaxing.
1:31:28
SPEAKER_01: the sound of the birds.
1:31:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was going to say, what about the birds, Paul?
1:31:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the birds.
1:31:32
SPEAKER_01: We almost missed that.
1:31:35
SPEAKER_01: No, the birds were there.
1:31:37
SPEAKER_01: They're my constant companions at this point.
1:31:39
SPEAKER_01: Even if I don't mention them,
1:31:39
SPEAKER_01: you can just assume that they're there,
1:31:41
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:31:42
SPEAKER_01: landing on my shoulders while I'm reading and things like that.
1:31:45
SPEAKER_01: But no, it's just been nice.
1:31:47
SPEAKER_01: I've been reading a lot outside.
1:31:49
SPEAKER_01: And so it is funny, like you said, I think of like fall and winter.
1:31:52
SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, I would say that summer reading is...
1:31:56
SPEAKER_01: is sometimes maybe a little bit underrated.
1:31:59
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
1:32:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:32:00
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:32:01
SPEAKER_00: We'll have a good one.
1:32:02
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy your day at the bookstore.
1:32:04
SPEAKER_00: Again, I hope to hear some fun news.
1:32:07
SPEAKER_00: Last time you sent some fun news.
1:32:08
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to tell...
1:32:10
SPEAKER_00: You want to brag a little bit?
1:32:11
SPEAKER_00: It was one of your books you'd been wanting to hand sell since you told me,
1:32:16
SPEAKER_00: even I think before you said you were going to do this,
1:32:18
SPEAKER_00: that you hoped one day to hand sell a copy of J.A.
1:32:21
SPEAKER_00: Baker's The Peregrine.
1:32:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
1:32:25
SPEAKER_01: It didn't take me long.
1:32:27
SPEAKER_01: And the fun thing is the owners actually allowed us to do our little shelf talkers.
1:32:32
SPEAKER_01: We have our monthly picks that we get to write up a little blurb.
1:32:37
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
1:32:37
SPEAKER_01: so I've actually sold now a couple of copies of the Peregrine,
1:32:41
SPEAKER_01: which exactly,
1:32:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:32:42
SPEAKER_01: it was thrilling.
1:32:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's so fun to be able to just champion some of these books that you love,
1:32:47
SPEAKER_01: which one,
1:32:48
SPEAKER_01: the one that I'm going to do for the next month will make you happy.
1:32:51
SPEAKER_01: Actually, we get to pick two.
1:32:53
SPEAKER_01: So I actually did pick It Lasts Forever and Then It's Over as one of mine, but the other one, Piranesi.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
1:33:01
SPEAKER_01: Two just wonderful, weird, fun, great books.
1:33:05
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:33:05
SPEAKER_01: And they're not necessarily obscure.
1:33:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:33:07
SPEAKER_01: the one is new and Piranesi,
1:33:09
SPEAKER_01: it's not that she's not well known,
1:33:11
SPEAKER_01: but I think it's just going to be fun to hopefully get that into a few new people's hands.
1:33:15
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, thank you for mentioning that.
1:33:16
SPEAKER_01: It's been absolutely so much fun to be able to sell.
1:33:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:33:19
SPEAKER_01: flights by Olga Tkarczyk or just these different ones that you love and just be
1:33:23
SPEAKER_01: able to hand it over to somebody and just,
1:33:25
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:33:26
SPEAKER_01: hopefully your enthusiasm is infectious.
1:33:28
SPEAKER_01: So just like we do on here,
1:33:29
SPEAKER_01: it's so much fun to just share our love and have other people's love of books
1:33:34
SPEAKER_01: shared with us.
1:33:35
SPEAKER_00: So,
1:33:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:33:37
SPEAKER_00: I imagine the joy is there's a big joy in sharing something that you love with somebody,
1:33:43
SPEAKER_00: but even the ones that you probably don't care about that you guys sell a lot of
1:33:47
SPEAKER_00: copies of.
1:33:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:33:49
SPEAKER_00: It's still fun to see someone come in and find the book they're looking for.
1:33:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
1:33:52
SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely a thrill.
1:33:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of my favorite things about this experience so far is what you and I've always talked about.
1:33:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not that we're out here saying you need to read these books.
1:34:02
SPEAKER_01: It's just
1:34:03
SPEAKER_01: we want you to read, we want you to share this love.
1:34:05
SPEAKER_01: And so,
1:34:06
SPEAKER_01: like you said,
1:34:07
SPEAKER_01: if it's a book that completely doesn't appeal to me,
1:34:09
SPEAKER_01: but still to see that person that you see their eyes light up when they see it on
1:34:12
SPEAKER_01: the shelf and they grab it and they clutch it to their chest and they bring it up
1:34:15
SPEAKER_01: to the register.
1:34:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love that.
1:34:16
SPEAKER_01: It's, it's so much fun.
1:34:18
SPEAKER_01: It's just the same enthusiasm and excitement that I get from all the wonderful
1:34:21
SPEAKER_01: feedback and comments here is just that shared love of reading and just seeing it
1:34:25
SPEAKER_01: continue to grow for people is,
1:34:27
SPEAKER_01: is what makes it all worth it for sure.
1:34:30
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:34:30
SPEAKER_00: Well,
1:34:31
SPEAKER_00: next week,
1:34:31
SPEAKER_00: we are actually going to record quickly because we're going to be each gone our
1:34:38
SPEAKER_00: normal recording Saturday.
1:34:39
SPEAKER_00: So we'll record next week.
1:34:40
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if this will give anybody time to respond.
1:34:43
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even exactly know what the question would be.
1:34:45
SPEAKER_00: But we're going to be doing bookshelf tours.
1:34:48
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to figure out the best way to do that.
1:34:51
SPEAKER_00: But,
1:34:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:34:52
SPEAKER_00: listeners,
1:34:52
SPEAKER_00: if you have ways that you,
1:34:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:34:56
SPEAKER_00: favor your bookshelves or how you,
1:34:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:34:58
SPEAKER_00: some of your favorite shelves you have again,
1:35:02
SPEAKER_00: whatever,
1:35:02
SPEAKER_00: whatever that inspires,
1:35:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:35:04
SPEAKER_00: something you want to share about your bookshelf in words,
1:35:09
SPEAKER_00: you can totally share pictures too.
1:35:12
SPEAKER_00: Of course we can't share them on the podcast that way, but I'd love to see your pictures of your shelves.
1:35:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, please.
1:35:17
SPEAKER_00: I always love that.
1:35:18
SPEAKER_00: But if you do have any thoughts on bookshelves that you would like to share that we
1:35:22
SPEAKER_00: can we can share on here again,
1:35:24
SPEAKER_00: I realize you'll be hearing this like the day before we record at best so that we
1:35:30
SPEAKER_00: might not get very much on this one.
1:35:33
SPEAKER_00: But I am curious.
1:35:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited for that episode.
1:35:35
SPEAKER_00: We decided to do something kind of easy for the summer as we both are preparing for
1:35:40
SPEAKER_00: it to be out for a week or so.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a lot of fun.
1:35:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
1:35:43
SPEAKER_01: And like you said,
1:35:44
SPEAKER_01: even after the episode comes out,
1:35:46
SPEAKER_01: like we always say,
1:35:47
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't have to be before the episode.
1:35:49
SPEAKER_01: We could share comments that we receive afterwards.
1:35:51
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
1:35:52
SPEAKER_01: any thoughts you have on bookshelves or give us a little virtual tour in words of
1:35:57
SPEAKER_01: your shelves or how you organize or like you said,
1:35:59
SPEAKER_01: your favorite shelves.
1:36:01
SPEAKER_01: I think there's lots of fun ways we can go with this.
1:36:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to this one for sure.
1:36:05
SPEAKER_01: Fun.
1:36:06
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:36:07
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everybody.
1:36:08
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you later.
1:36:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:36:35
SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to donate to the show,
1:36:37
SPEAKER_00: anything and everything,
1:36:38
SPEAKER_00: even a dollar a month helps and is deeply appreciated.
1:36:42
SPEAKER_00: You can become a Patreon at patreon.com slash mooks.
1:36:46
SPEAKER_00: Until next time.