Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / The Truth About Being a Financial Professional in Dubai, with Tyla Phillips

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The Truth About Being a Financial Professional in Dubai, with Tyla Phillips · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Tyler Phillips.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's a chartered financial planner and a co-founder and executive director of AHR Private Wealth.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler has spent quite some considerable time out in the UAE, specifically Dubai.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about his journey from moving from a private banking environment in the UK over to the UAE and his journey through the offshore market to become an executive director and founder of his own wealth management firm that is going from strength to strength across the UAE and now the UK as well.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it was actually one of my job adverts that he saw all those years ago about working in Dubai that got him out there.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you could say he's got me to thank for all his success.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's an exceptional financial planner and he shares his journey.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope you enjoy the podcast.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing today?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Good, thank you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: How yourself?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well, thank you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for um for coming on and sharing your journey and your career within financial planning.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I've um I've known you for a little while, as you pointed out.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was when you tell the story, how did how do you know about myself?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I messaged you um following a post that you posted on LinkedIn in 2014.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you posted something about Dubai itself, uh, and I was just glancing across and said, send me more information.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um from that message, uh actually brought me out to Dubai.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just a post I see, and we're just asking for information because I was just bored, to be completely honest, looking on there and uh it turned into this.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, thank you for that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: No problem.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anything I can do to help.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the power, isn't it, sometimes of just marketing anyway, you know, putting something out on LinkedIn.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think we put things out there and we don't realize how much impact it can actually have.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that with the podcast.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm putting content out there, the amount of messages I get sort of thanking me for what they've learned from the episode or it's inspired them to leave and leave or join another company, or as in yours, in your case, go abroad.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I I had a I had a chap on who um was working over in Abu Dhabi, and from the back of that podcast, three people I put across to him, and they're interested in going over to Abu Dhabi.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So marketing LinkedIn does work.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, there we go.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't remember.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I put that article out.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can remember it because I was playing around with offshore financial advice companies.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I put a few articles together about what it's like to live in certain in certain countries.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Frankie, Frankie at the time who was working for me, got in contact with you.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then um ended up placing you, I think, with a company.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Was that right?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or or or did you not?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they placed um a company called uh Guardian Wealth Management.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and that was your foray into the world of of offshore financial advice.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, let's rewind it a little bit, really, because with this podcast, it's really about understanding your career and how it developed and how you've got to the level you are right now.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, which is a senior executive of a financial planning firm that's got 1.2 billion under management.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's fantastic.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that journey is going to be very interesting to somebody listening to this and thinking, well, you know, how did he get there?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is offshore for me, for example.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So let's sort of rewind it back then.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about how you got, first of all, into financial services very briefly, and how you ended up in the UK working in, say, financial planning or financial advice at the time.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was studying, doing my uh my A levels originally, and I'm playing football, and I was going to move to America and it didn't work out.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually worked for the bank, Lloyd's Bank, in their collections department while studying.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, as I was finishing studying, I kind of decided I didn't want to go to university and just applied on the bank uh workshop or what they call it to um see what they had available.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I applied for a job in London as a private banking manager's assistant, and I was what, 18 back then?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, had a few interviews and thankfully got the job.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I joined there as kind of an administrator, really.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the guy that hired me, a guy called Steve Ayers, that actually ended up running the private bank, um, kind of liked me, gave me a good opportunity, and just said, if I study these exams, then I can keep progressing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So naturally I started doing my level three, CII, and the level four, etc.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think by 22 I was a private banking manager.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was done my level six childhood by 24, maybe, I think it was, um, which was at the time one of the youngest um in the industry.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was more the fact that I got told if I do these exams, I'll progress and kind of earn more money and be more successful.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I could see the the benefit of studying.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when I was maybe at college, I didn't necessarily see what equaled what.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that I just naturally fell into financial planning.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't something that I had kind of planned to do at the outset.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fair play though.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Stepping up into our private banking world at the age of 22, I mean, that's that's pretty damn good going.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think helped you get into that position by the age of 22?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned the name of somebody there.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did they mentor you?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did they just sort of get behind you?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did he see something in you that was talent?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think it was?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's strange because we'll come on to that.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I I now work with Steve, he's just joined our business, this side, which is a really, really interesting story.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, but no, Steve, Steve hired me, he was the area manager of London and became on to be regional director and then the MD of the private bank.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think he just kind of gave me belief that I could do it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And being that young, looking after a older client base who are naturally wealthy, I think people question that they are going to think about how old you are to be able to give advice on their on their on their um their money.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I did get questioned a bit, but that's why I thought I need to be very well qualified and knowledgeable to be actually be able to deliver the advice.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you you kind of deliver it with such conviction and passion.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: People will ask you how old you are, more in the fact that they are impressed with how well you've done, as opposed to how old are you to advise me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I don't think I struggled with that as much as I initially thought I would.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I would say to anyone out there.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's more a perception than actually a reality.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, more what we think of ourselves as opposed to what the client, for example, is thinking.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: If anything, if you're knowledgeable, understand the subject matter, understand the investment you're talking about, then they're gonna be impressed.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you know have that limiting belief that you think just because you're younger that that person's not gonna take you seriously.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna get some people that still do think that, an old school individual, like you, and you can't win everyone over.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of my best clients were older people, and you could have said that I was their grandchild.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: But being up to date, relevant, and kind of on point gave them a lot of confidence as well.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was, I had probably studied more recent and the advisor doing it 20 years.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: The argument would be that I actually know what's up to date in regards to planning as opposed to someone that done it quite a while back.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So just give somebody a bit of a you know an understanding then of what you were doing within that private banking role.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, back then, a lot of it was relationship-led.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I was um helping manage the portfolios, but the portfolios were obviously driven by the investment committee and the investment team.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then we worked actually with what they call a wealth management advisor, WMA, I think the term was back then, who came in and delivered some of the advice.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we, a private banker, was more the relationship finding the needs, and then technically a specialist would come in and deliver the advice on maybe the trust planning or setting up an offshore bond, the ISIS, whatever that may be, and we would continue to service that client going forward.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that leads, yeah, and that's pretty much how like financial planning firms are starting to construct themselves now, whereas the financial advisor will be delivering the advice, but they don't really have the time, if you like, to to be that relationship person, answering all the questions that the client might have throughout the throughout the process of having that client.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, how important do you think the role of a relationship manager is within the wider sort of I think it's really because people buy into people and people take comfort with having that relationship, not just someone coming in and executing advice.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So someone might go to you and say, I need advice, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't always happen.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And quite a lot of these people will need to get to know you, feel comfortable with you, to then tell you certain things for you to then help them understand they need advice.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So what we've built here at the company is very much a it is a blend of the two because it has to be, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have to give advice, but the relationship is key, and that's why it's important that the advisors have a team of people with them to help with the ongoing service part.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think if you're not serving a client well, that's where your retention figures are not going to be great.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you survey so many people about what do they like or not like about their financial advisor, it's that their financial advisor is talking to them, having them conversations, especially with COVID and tough times.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: People just want you want to know that you're there and looking after them.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think that's where people maybe have gone have gone wrong in the past.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you were working for the private bank then.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: You were quite young, you're obviously doing quite uh, you know, a high-level job that people take quite a few years to get to.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you progressed your career, your career quite quickly.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just sort of looking back over five minutes ago, you mentioned you were on LinkedIn and you were a bit bored.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened there then?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're in, you know, one of the leading banks in the UK, you're working in private banking.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you get bored?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just I think sometimes you you the problem is with a bank, right?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You you get to a stage where you feel like a little clog in a big will.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: However, you look at it, you feel that you can hit certain ceilings.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just more of a time I wasn't bored.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the word bored come out in the wrong context there.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I was just on LinkedIn, maybe over some lunch and and kind of seeing what happened.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a part of me wanted something new and something else to aspire to.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt, and and even Steve to himself said, You are going to hit a ceiling at the bank.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the longer you are within the bank, the more in um, the more locked in you become, and the more difficult it becomes to get out of that environment.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And being so young, it was more, what have I got to lose?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: If I go work overseas and try something new and it doesn't work, I can always go and get a job at a bank again.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Was my kind of theory behind it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even though I loved my job, I did enjoy it, but I always wanted and aspired to do more.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was probably that was it, really.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, I and I and I totally get that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't to sort of trip you up to say, like, oh, you were bored because you were lazy or anything like that.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think being bored sometimes is an indication that we're being unfulfilled, that perhaps we're not meeting our potential of what we think we act, we can actually do and what our worth is.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're evident of that.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've, you know, and we'll get onto that in the future.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, by leaving a role that you were, you know, not being fulfilled, wasn't fulfilling you professionally or personally or whatever, that you can step outside of it and um there's a whole world of opportunities out there that you might well have a bit more control over.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not unusual to hear that somebody's working for for a bank and they feel that they're hitting a bit of a glass ceiling.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the cog in the wheel thing is a classic example.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I worked for Aviva and I was a trainer for a viva.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And however hard I worked, however hard I tried, I was always going to be on this same pay bracket.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that it, you know, it didn't matter what I did.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I got, yes, I could progress within the company, et cetera.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it was always to the structure of what their personal development plan was or their earning potential.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, it was very stifling.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're a natural entrepreneurial type individual that wants to try new things and has ambition and drive, it is a stifling environment.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that can lead to boredom because you're not being fulfilled in your job.
• 12:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's cool.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's like that's that's normal.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's what it is, isn't it?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of people sitting there sometimes in jobs, ashamed do they feel that way.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, and as I said, I loved my time at the bank.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: It really helped me learn the role and learn how to kind of progress in in work in general, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you realize when you leave that it is a bigger world out there, you are restricted to the product range that the bank offers you.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: If the bank doesn't do well, what can you do?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: If their bank, if the funds that you're investing in don't perform, you have to back the bank and you don't have any autonomy to do anything different.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas working as a kind of an independent advisor, you can have the ability to change that strategy to whoever you feel is the best and most appropriate solution, right?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas a bank, you're kind of tied to the products they've got and and the restricted advice piece, I guess.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think some people like that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like to have that kind of structure in place, the blinkers either side, what they can and what they can't do.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like the thought of going outside of that actually freaks them out a little bit.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some people, it sounds a bit like yourself, that the confines just it doesn't do you any favours.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: You like to be able to see what's on the other side of the fence and explore something else and see what it is, because it you're about the experience perhaps the client perhaps that the client has or wants to have.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you deliver more for them?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nothing more um, I guess, a feeling of inadequacy if you can't deliver against somebody when you know you you could deep down, you could offer them a far greater service.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, makes sense.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: With um so why didn't you step into like a financial planner role within the bank?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: What was it called again?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: A wealth manager.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a wealth manager at the time.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I actually merged the two roles just before I left.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you the two roles became one eventually.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they were trying to cut costs to a degree and kind of merge the relationship and advisor role into one.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So in in itself, I did become one, but it was a period that I was leaving at that point anyway.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've made that decision.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you were working for the bank, cut your teeth there, um, got some experience, got some qualifications.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're probably earning some decent money there for a young guy as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So then you you you went on LinkedIn, something caught your attention, a post from myself about working, working abroad.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, had you invested any energy at all into thinking about working, working abroad at the time.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, were you was it was it something in the back of your mind?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Did you always want to do that?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: That that post was the first thing I hadn't, I don't even had I even been tobai before, possibly once.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, it just was just it was just that one moment in time, it caught it caught me at the right time that I responded to get information.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like that any other time that may not work.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then that naturally, the more I see, the more I felt and thought about it, the more it appealed to me.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned there as well, like you thought, right, I'm gonna take the plunge into working offshore.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: You'd never, you know, you've been to Dubai on holiday, you you hadn't done a great deal of research, you didn't know much about the offshore market, so it was a massive unknown.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did you do at that stage to start the process of thinking, right, I'm going to go and work offshore?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, the the the area manager of the Dubai office was um calling me and and kept calling me and was telling me about how great it will be, etc.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously I wasn't sure and wasn't I wanted to believe him, but I didn't know, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know anyone, didn't know the company, and working from a bank to a company never heard of is a big bold move.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people will all say the same.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thankfully, there was a guy working there that was from my local area that I knew of.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I had a chat with that individual that kind of made me feel a bit more comfortable that it was all real.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of got me to a stage where I thought this makes sense.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: He told me what the real expectation or what you could actually earn and how well you could actually do.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and and I just then felt that if I could achieve even what he says I could achieve as a minimum, that's worth taking the risk, that's worth giving it a go.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because as I said, the default to me was move I can move back home and get another job.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm young, and I always don't want to look back and think what if.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one of those things that I didn't go to America and do the scholarship of football.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Could have I, could have I not naturally always have that little bit of wonder what could have happened.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I didn't want to live the life and look back and say, do you know what?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I now still work at the bank and I could have tried something at a time where I didn't have kids and I wasn't married, and I had the chance to do it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was important I at least gave it a go.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, fair play.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So what's very powerful there is the fact that you were able to speak to somebody that worked for the firm that you were potentially going to go, you know, you were being courted by.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think a testimonial for anybody, from anybody that's working out in the country that you're thinking about going to, in the job that you're thinking about doing, is incredibly powerful.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what were they saying?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were, you know, what did how did they describe it to you?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because you were talking about the earning, you know, the earning potential and all of that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: How were they describing it to you?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be really keen to understand, did it meet those expectations?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they said it's very hard.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they didn't try and sugarcoat it, they said it's tough.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're into your stage where you have to find your own client.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're not working for a bank where you'll give them leads where a guy is already committed to the bank.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: You now have to find clients, you've got to build that relationship.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh somewhere like Dubai is full of unqualified advisors, unfortunately, where the reputation of the industry is not great, um, which is completely alien to someone coming from the UK, whereas if you're an advisor, you're respected, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So he told me it's very hard, it's gonna be a lot of work to try and build a network to obviously get referrals and get into certain client circles.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the earning capacity is there.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: He said, look, it even if you're an average advisor in his eyes, uh, there's a lot of people that obviously don't do this, but an average advisor will earn maybe£150,000 a year.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: What you don't realize is the costs that come with that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're technically running a business for most people out here.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So most of these jobs are self-employed.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you're going to be running a team, and you might have a PA, you might have some bits depending on how well you do and how much you invest into that team.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the costs, so the the amount you can earn is a lot more than you would in England, obviously tax-free.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but your costs are quite high as well.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when you actually look into it, which become evident when I've moved over, the cost of bringing up a family here and what you need to earn to have that lifestyle, uh, means you do need to write a lot of business and take on a lot of clients and service them well to make sure you've got that ongoing recurring income coming in.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned there like 150,000, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So at the half, you know, an average advisor might earn 150,000, okay?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's over in to buy.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we mentioned there about the cost of living, etc.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a if you're a single girl, single guy, and you're going off to earn 150,000 pounds to in the UK to me now that seems like a lot of money.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a decent level of money.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's gonna be difficult to achieve in England.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Very difficult to achieve.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I can understand why you're sitting there thinking, well, do you know what?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Why not have a go?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why not get out there and have a go at trying to earn if if an average person and I'm confident in back my ability can earn£150,000?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: What can I earn?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so obviously the to buy the UAE is is is tax-free earnings, isn't it?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: You don't pay any tax, is that right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so somebody earning, say,£150,000 back in 2015, what sort of lifestyle could they expect living over in the UAE to buy?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, it depends on if you're on your own, your cost of living is a bit is a bit less.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like living in London.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you would even if you wanted to to you'd normally get an apartment, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And to get an apartment might cost you£20,000 to£30,000 a year, um, two to three thousand a month, you can go a little bit even a room.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you get a room with people, it's a thousand pounds a month.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you your cost of living is more expensive.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Your even going out and and drinking, eating out and doing activities is naturally more very very very much similar to the West End, I guess.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think on that when you've got no commitments, as in people you're looking after, um, then then that's a lot of money still.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Your your surplus is still is is still um very strong.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's people that then have kids at school um paying for a family villa that you need to make sure that you're you're at least earning 150.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I first moved there, there was an individual that said he's he had to earn 3,000 a week to break even.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So they break even, meaning he's he can he can have a lifestyle but well, it's save money, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you come here for lifestyle, but you come here to save money.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I come here tax-free, I want to save money.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important that you don't overlook the cost of living.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it is an opportunity where it is a job where I believed it was uncapped.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you do the right thing and you get into the right circles and you do a good job, you can build a real good client base that pays you an ongoing service fee that you can earn more than you ever dreamt of in an environment that's the best place to live, in my opinion, in the world.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I thought that was that was as the first six months was very challenging, really challenging.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anyone, didn't know what I was doing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why did everyone not think the financial planner was trusted?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't it was alien to me?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like what?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because unfortunately, the the 80% of the not good advisors have given a bad name because they came here to also chase that same dream who can't necessarily do the job particularly well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd done 15 exams in five years, and there's a guy next to me who's done no exams who says I'm also going to do the job with you.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't necessarily feel right, but it was the but I believed that if I do a good job, it means that I'll be even more referrable because I'm actually a qualified, experienced advisor.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just breaking through to them people to maybe get that story across.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, that's really interesting.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did you ever have anybody out there you were working with that had absolutely no qualifications but were smashing everybody else out there completely in respect of commissions?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's possible, yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because it wasn't it what the problem is in the UK, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: When I was there, RDR came in and you had to get qualified.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it meant that everyone done it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, because if not, you can't do the job.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Until they make that date compulsory, people won't do it because it's not necessarily needed.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean they're bad advisors, or not all of them that are not qualified are not capable or as good as the qualified individual.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it a lot of them won't do it unless they have to do it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's just how it works, right?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of people that were not qualified that were good.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of people that are not qualified that wasn't good.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's bag to be completely honest.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So also going over there with the qualifications and the experience that you had, you said that you had to kind of really sort of separate yourself from the riffraff, if you like, the the not the non-qualified, inexperienced, you know, washing machine salesman type people that you know you hear so much of over in Dubai and et cetera.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when you did that, did you find it easy though to separate yourself from those guys purely because you did know what you were talking about and you had the experience previous to going over to Dubai?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I found it more difficult than I thought I would because it's not me being able to show them that, it's them listening to me and getting in front of the person.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as you say who you are and what you do, they have a perception of who you are and what you're like.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's still like that here now, but that hasn't changed.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: As a business, we've tried to change that, but it's it was challenging until one person has has seen you and and been with you as a relationship for a while, but then tells someone else, and then that snowballs.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then you start getting a bit more confident that people are gonna realize and be comfortable with that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: But no, in the first six months was very challenging.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll be honest.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just go into that then for me, if you wouldn't, if you would be kind enough to do that, because I think that's the biggest fear anybody has when they go to Dubai or Abu Dhabi or anywhere else in the world where you can give offshore financial advice, is that the fear is how are they going to pay their bills?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's the first six to 12 months gonna look like?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be vital to them, you know, and that's the biggest thing that that turns them off.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: So just tell us a little bit about your experience of that first six months, then.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I think I think if you I think you need to come over with some stability from the business.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: The business needs to give you some earnings or some minimum salary to get you to survive because otherwise people are end up trying to chase stuff that's and be desperate, which which is no good for anyone and no good for the industry.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like you do need to have an element of earnings coming in to learn the role, learn the environment, learn the process to survive.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's where a lot of people come out without that, only the last three or four months, and that's why the the industry can get a bit um damaged.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you need to make sure, and that's what we ensure we do here, is if we are investing in that person, there is there isn't that pressure at the outset on having to bring clients on that they're gonna then feel that they maybe need to do things that are they're not ready to do yet or not confident in the process.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about getting that blend right, I think.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important that you at least help the individual understand the advice process and how to how to build their reputation when they come without putting the financial pressure on them.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's exactly what I would want.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I always suggest when I'm speaking to any client who is offshore, is that if you want this person to come over, you need to put some cash on the table to give them a little element of security that you want, you know, that you are committed to them coming over, that A, you're going to be committed to giving them training, development, but also that you're putting your money on the table as well.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just all about them.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of people that pay their own bill, you know, pay their own flights and everything to get over there to work commission-based.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think, well, why are you the guy who left my business to do it?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, why, why you that's such a huge risk, you know?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I get the whole, well, it's Dubai, you know, and I'm young and I can do this, but it's like, you've got every single bit of financial we're committed back as well.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I agree.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just a bit risky.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where it sometimes had a bit of a bad name, isn't it?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Where you've got these really good guys, like um, but what did you do?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did they give you some money then?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because let's just talk about it, because you went over to Guardian, didn't you?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so to be fair, they did.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: They gave me a six-month um minimum, so that helped me survive.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to be fair, it was even harder to survive on that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back, you're out, you're buying coffee for people, you're meeting, like you're investing in in obviously trying to build relationships.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they did do that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they helped me financially at the outset, they were good.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: The only problem with it was no one was really there to help me understand the good and the bad, and good experiences and bad, and being mentally prepared with the process.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I feel that I then created the process for what I'd done, and now that's what I deliver to our team.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So by going through the the difficulties um and how I how I got through it and the the ways in which I'd done well and where I struggled, I think really helps now we bring people in so I can kind of prepare them, uh not make it better, but I can prepare them on what they should and shouldn't do and what's going to potentially happen and and that it's okay, it wasn't just it's not just you, um it happens to all of us kind of thing.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So because I've been there and done that, I think it helps me now when I'm onboarding people and bringing them over.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, what types of things do you think people should be prepared for then within that first six months of working in the offshore financial advice market?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they need to be financially secure in the sense they know what they're going to be spending, sticking to budgets and really trying to build a network of people when they get here.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to try and get into the right circles, um, explain who you are, what you do, and really start to build that opportunity and not be scared to get out and network, because that's the difference.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to be in a branch being given people walking in and ask for financial advice.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You are going to be trying to network and get introducers to trust you and pass you leads to speak to to try and help them with their kind of financial goals.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be very driven, you've got to be very disciplined in this role.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you've got to be hungry.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not hungry to actually build a client base, because it's going to be tough.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: You see people done it 10 years and got a nice book of clients now, then it's a lot easier, right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can just do reviews, look after them, and they will introduce you to people and give you referrals.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to get to that is is is is is gonna be hard work.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got a tried and tested system because you've what you've been you've been out there now for how many years now?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Seven years, six years?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Six and a bit, yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Six and a bit years, you know, and you've worked your way up through Guardian, you've obviously left Guardian, you're now an executive director, AHR private uh shareholder there, you know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you're doing incredibly well.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think is that first 12-month strategy to make I know you can say you've got to be driven, you've got to be this, you've got to be that, but what do you think is the first 12-month strategy to make it a success when you're working in the offshore market?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or as a financial advisor in general?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think look, the the company needs to invest in you to help you understand the process and how to how to actually do well.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, with what we will do for individuals is we'd be investing in them.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we would be giving them a smaller um commission package, but a salary, typically at first, um, to really take that pressure off them.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: We would be helping them, well, they should be shadowing, doing a lot of mentoring with the experience advisors, understanding process, understanding how they manage their book, what their back office setup looks like.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: We would be helping them with lead generations through our inbound um marketing strategies that we have, just to help them have that um client experience where the client wants advice as opposed to you trying to uh explain that they need advice, which I think is a lot easier for someone.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we we try and um onboard them in a softer way to get them confident, get them understanding what to do, as similar as we can from a bank, to then take them out of their comfort zone a little bit to try and help them generate further leads from external parties.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important because if they can see some early success belief, the problem is when you've done six weeks, you've not taken on a client, everyone's told you that they don't trust people in the industry, your confidence obviously isn't no longer going to be there, and you're gonna find it very difficult to get back up and running.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a very saturated market though?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's lots of people out there delivering financial advice, and you know, you don't have to be as qualified as you are in the UK, it's not as heavily regulated, and you're trying to break into these networks as you as you suggest.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is it not heavily saturated?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is the competition so much that people is that what it is?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: People just think it's not another bloody financial advisor trying to sell me a product.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's that's unfortunately the um the mindset from a lot of people because they have just been sold.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when I see people and we talk to them, they are just trying to sell products.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when I go through the training and onboarding, people can't believe how different it is with what we do.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all about questioning and helping clients understand what do they want to achieve?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as simple as that sounds to me, and how obvious that is, that's not the experience people to get it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, like at an like, I will ask a question to a client, like, what's the value of money to you?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, like what do you enjoy doing in life?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And people just get taken back with being asked the question to make them think and explain what they want.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're used to coming in saying, Do you need one of these to help you do X, Y, Z?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the approach has been very different in what we've managed to build compared to our um competition.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps advisors deliver that advice.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so working for um working for Guardian Wealth, then you were you were at Guardian Wealth for three and a half years.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you went out there with absolutely no clue, no idea of what it's like to be a financial advisor in the offshore market.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Three and a half years later, you left and and and you're you're now an executive director at AHR private.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you stepped up into a more senior role where you are now a shareholder within that business and growing this global business.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: About three, yeah, three and a half years working for Guardian Wealth Management.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: You started as a trainee and you left as a what, a senior financial planner?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I went in there as a, I was already chartered.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I went in there as a financial planner.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was their number one advisor worldwide for three, four or three years.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had real success on building a book and building that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so the first six months was challenging, and then thankfully it went really well.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I probably had the largest or one of the largest book of clients by the time I left for assets on the um and yeah, it was really good.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really to this day I'm thankful and enjoyed my time there.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, some good people.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: But once again, you get to a stage where you feel you've hit a glass ceiling and what next?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I approached them on how they like what I can do internally to grow within their business.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, they didn't feel that that's what they wanted to do.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: They just wanted me to continue being an advisor, and I just felt that that didn't make sense or work for me long term.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Was that also because they already had a presence in to buy, and then for you to be able to step up into like a I don't know, um, the branch director or the the agency director, whatever you want to call it, that there wasn't that opportunity for you there?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Possibly, um, but they didn't feel accommodating to give me some idea about what that would look like.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it didn't matter what more I'd done that I didn't see what was next, even if it was I could have had a slightly higher percentage of what I was generating, something to work towards, there was there was nothing more.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it was if I now don't feel like I'm the the number one advisor again, it's now going to be a uh a failure.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it was like, no, I just don't want, I just that doesn't satisfy me anymore.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if if I'm brutally honest, we I I was chatting to a couple of the other advisors that I was working closely with, and we we had the same feeling, and we said, right, they won't, I feel like it's a company once again that it's the advisor can't grow into.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we felt that we wanted to go and create the company that was in honest, like an advisor built by advisors for advisors, as cheesy as that may sound.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: But and and we built it with offering advisors the same kind of uh progression plan as what I was asking for.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was evident of this is what would have kept me within that business long term and felt part of the family, and that's what they couldn't accommodate.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we then set up Harrison Row that then merged Barlow Wealth, and that's where AHR came from.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we said we, to be honest, we were gonna set that up just for us four advisors, um, or three advisors it was at the time.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: There were four of us individuals.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And as we told people what we were doing, more and more believed in the vision and wanted to join.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we thought actually now we are gonna be able to build this advisor, a built by advisory built by advisors for advisors, and then it kind of went from there.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get onto that in a second.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: What I'd love to understand though, you said you were number one for guardian in the world, is that right?
• 36:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So to be number one for guardian in the world, how much were you turning over?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: How much how much were you generating in fee income, both new business and recurring?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was probably taking on about 20, 25 mil a year of clients.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the assets under management I was probably taking on at the time.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: What 25 million a year?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: In the last year, yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So with maybe 15.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, by the time I left, I maybe had caught on relationships of about under management, our management of about 40 million.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: About 40 million.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: So in the offshore market, then I'm going to ask some questions because people want to understand the difference between the UK, recurring income, new business, that sort of stuff, and how that and what that looks like.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got 40 million under management over in Dubai working for Guardian, what are you charging the client on a month on a on an annual basis for an annual management charge?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same as the UK, really.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, for the ongoing service, relationship, tax advice, everything that comes with it, we typically would charge 1% a year.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: That can that can reduce down, obviously, depending on the size of the relationship.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: But between half and 1% a year is the typical ongoing service that the most advisory firms will be charging, which would be this was the same for us.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you generated about 40 million within your three-year period, yeah?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah roughly.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, decent.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's decent.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't get many financial planners doing that in the UK at that sort of speed.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, most of it was probably in the last two years, really.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you know what I mean, as time went on, because it didn't do anything for six months.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the business that you're writing, so when you set the business up and you charge an initial fee, yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know, you let's say you're bringing 400k's worth of recurring income in, how much initial fees were you generating?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it obviously is that is done by the business because obviously by the business anyway, doesn't it?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it depends on what we're doing, if it's but it would it would range was probably doing about half a million.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um as when you what five you're personally or the business was doing that?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was probably writing about five five hundred thousand for fee income.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Fair play.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously, as a financial so okay, so Guardian wants to keep you really in the role of being a financial advisor.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't really they didn't really have a solution for you outside of being a shithole financial advisor, basically.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, fine.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right, okay.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, again, this sort of gives us an insight into you, really, as a person.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're you're generating half a well 500 500k, so half a million quid a year, tax-free, yeah.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Over in Dubai.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um you're still looking to move on.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not it's not just about earning the problem is it's not about earning money, it's about building the relationship to take on with that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: That clients to me, my clients I take on, I want to keep forever.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's the recurring, the recurring income is the bit that that matters, because that means that you don't have the pressure of meeting new people.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like naturally, now I still do the job, and I'm just I'm just doing 10, 12 reviews a week looking after them, and naturally you'll get people asking you for advice, which is ultimately always what I wanted.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of it, because I'm I've obviously, as most people should be, is well qualified.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing a lot of tax planning, a lot of high net worth cases.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just it just got to a stage where I didn't just want to be advising anyone, I wanted to help people and build a business that I could be proud of and can look back and see that we've created something that is very different to the offshore market.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because the offshore market is full of a lot of companies that are very kind of dinosaur approach, they're not particularly dynamic.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt there was a big gap in the market to build something that can have advisors that will stay forever, clients that would stay forever, by giving a solid, transparent, clean proposition that everyone is comfortable and happy with.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And was that something you felt, obviously you mentioned there about the dinosaurs out there that are really kind of offering more transactional business, I guess, the traditional financial advice as opposed to the new world of financial planning.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that was where you saw your niche opportunity and you thought to yourself, you had the foresight to think, you know, I can walk away from a good earnings, so much walk away from it, because we'll get on to that, I guess, because I want my understanding a bit more about the contractual.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you could you could move away from Guardian, set something up yourself.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: You found like-minded advisors to do the same, and then you came together to set up this more of a financial planning approach, somewhere where you can add value to the clients to even separate yourself further from the the advisors out there that were highly transactional and commission chasing.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, agree.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I was fancy, I was fortunate enough to have the certain people around me to help build the business um with their skill sets.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And look, to go and to go and set up wasn't it was it harder than a fall?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have been able to do it without the other people.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and by working with Arlo, which has obviously created the merger, as a combined um director team now of six, it's not something that I would have been able to do on my own.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: That wouldn't have been the case because I still want to advise and still enjoy giving advice and looking after clients.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that and build the business on my own would have been impossible.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: We just think this was a really good opportunity for us then right now, for you to sort of introduce where you are now, what you're doing now, and how you kind of got there when you left Guardian then.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So so we so we moved over and set up the new business.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so quite a few advisors came with us as they naturally wanted to to kind of join the journey and believed in the vision.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we worked with Arlo and merged the two companies together.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been merge now for coming up to a year.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're in um, we've got about 76 people in this office now, which is about 30 advisors, um, and then probably the rest, uh, the mixture of admin and associates.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, I wanted to ensure that I can help the advisors progress and build, as I said, like loyalty to them to build into the longer they work with us, the more they have under management, the benefits them and the business and the clientele, the more that they're looked after.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the one day they will get that, they'll get rewarded financially for that if we ever did list or sell the company.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they really believe in the vision and part of it as opposed to that small clog and having no involvement in the future success of the business.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I still look after clients.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't do as many new introduction meetings anymore, other than other than referrals, because number one, I want the other advisors to help have that traction to progress and build their own client base.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm I'm quite comfortable now with the clients that I've got and and the the um the amount that that generates on the back of that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you came together, you found three like-minded planners that wanted to come along, they bought into your vision, bought into your idea of what a good financial planning firm should look like.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so contractually then, how does that sort of work over in Dubai?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you guys are all self-employed, aren't you?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Really.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Most most of you guys are self-employed.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so do you just sort of go, right, see you later, Guardian?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the contract states that I can ovate these clients, this recurring income across to a new firm.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it works?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: I left the business, I left on, I left on um on as good terms as I could.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and naturally clients will approach you and and say they want to continue that relationship.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: So over the following 12, 18 months, a lot of clients approached me and and thankfully the majority did.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they said, Look, can I still continue to service you?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's no nothing wrong with if a client approaches you, for them to have the ability to choose who they work with.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, look, they they've brought in most advice, most clients will bind to the advisor, right?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: They they like the relationship and the service they're getting from that individual.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they will want to continue that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just think, yeah, absolutely.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think if if someone in the UK, it's very rare for someone in the UK as a self-employed financial planner or financial advisor to have a contract that states that the clients have to stay behind with the company they're working with.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: There might be something within it that says anything that we've generated via our marketing would have to stay with us.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: But anything that you've self-generated, yeah, flick of a switch, we'll get that invated, get the agencies in place.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone you go and join, you can, that's your clients.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's your, you know, that's where you can transfer it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it just obviously gives people the confidence that they can obviously move their business when they need to move it because it's their clients.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also I think there's a trust element there from the company as well.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's saying, look, if you come and work with us, we're here, we're here to make your life a million times better.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're here to provide a service to you to you as a financial planner and to your clients, uh, so you don't ever leave us.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that confidence there as well.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that sort of not out there then in the in the D in Dubai then?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it more like, no, anything you've generated is ours?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, these guys have to approach you.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: There are, you know, you know what I mean, restricted covenants, et cetera.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Depends on the company, but naturally, most of the companies out here will want to try and keep the clients.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think you do need to be to be careful legally that you can and can't do it, and got to respect your contract and follow that, really.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you came together with a few really established planners, really, came together to set one up.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really great model, anyway.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're all self-sufficient, aren't you?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not you're not coming together, you're not going off on your own and saying, right, I'm gonna put an advert out on Reed and try and get five financial planners from the UK to come over and join me and start from scratch.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: You started with a core of people that are already established and can put some money up to, you know, to invest in the business to help it grow.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you were four of you at that stage, and you were thinking yourselves, right, we're gonna build this financial planning business.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be so different from everything out here.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna add value to our clients.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's how we're gonna grow.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you've obviously adopted the assets under management model, okay, which is sort of gradually come in, isn't it, over in the offshore market?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you've adopted that one.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the clients that you work with, I guess historically may have been used to paying ridiculous commissions, you know, to advisors in the past.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you're being very transparent, I assume, with your fee structure to say what it is, what you get for it, all of that kind of thing.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's quite refreshing to see over in the offshore market.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually quite easy to, if you're seeing a meeting a client that has a relationship with someone else, you look at their portfolio and then you say, look, this is what you're in right now, this is what we can put you in.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ultimately you'd be saving them money because a lot of them might be in old school um commission paying funds.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: We we won't do any, we don't have access or won't access any commission paying product um because we're paying funds.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: We would ensure that we are we add an ongoing service fee on.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found very alien in this market back then, not as much now, because I think clients have advisors have evolved, is people didn't think that people would pay for ongoing service, which is alien to me because I was like, Well, why would they not?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: People don't mind paying an ongoing fee as long as they know what they're getting for it.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was it was just a concept that people had to get their head around, which I think was difficult.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I said, like, if you had a window cleaner coming every week for nothing, how many times are you gonna come and clean your windows?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's obvious, right?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when they say the other advisory firm's not gonna charge me anything, I said, Well, I can do that, but I won't be servicing you anymore.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we could do execution only.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as you explain it right to the client, clients are fine, they don't mind paying, they want to know that they can remove you at any point if you're not delivering.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very transparent.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was alien to me that no one, lots of people out there didn't have that confidence to actually be able to charge you ongoing, which was bonkers.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it was because of the whole culture of go out there and make money quick?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, many people um because they maybe wasn't qualified to give ongoing advice particularly well, people weren't confident that they were giving value back.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's it, right?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I knew the value I'm giving.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know that the clients rely on me, and that's what I'm paid for.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm paid to look after them and to deal with the things that they need me to deal with.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I feel a lot of advisors were more transactional only and wasn't justifying anything ongoing, I guess.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: But also, you how old were you when you went out there, Tyler?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty-four.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty four.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So like now, six years late.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you're early 30s now, then, yeah?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: 30 now, yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you're positioned perfectly now, aren't you, as well?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because those guys that went over around about the same time would would possibly be working for firms where it was heavily commission based and later on started possibly moving over to the uh to the asset center management model, ongoing fee model.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: But where you've been a success, now you're setting up your business there.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: You've also got these guys that are already in Dubai.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're not reliant heavily on bringing people, say, from the UK to come out to Dubai, because you've got a selection of people out there that possibly aren't in the right companies doing the right things.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they turn their head, they say, Tyler Phillips is doing a good job over there.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love the sound of what they're doing.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you can start to actually hire within instead of trying to hire from the UK and bring people over and have that headache of trying to get somebody up to the levels that you need them to be, correct?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I still like to try and help the individuals from the UK because I just thought that was me.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if I never had that chance, I wouldn't be here today.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I'm mindful of how many we can take on with capacity because I feel it's possible to help them personally on board and get them to be a success.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: But there's nothing more satisfying than helping that person do it because that's what I had the opportunity to do.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: But ideally, we would know advisors will come where they're already established, already have a um a network where they can kind of just slip in and feel that our proposition and our vision and our client experience is maybe stronger than they've currently got.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you've grown really quickly.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Within a very short space of time.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the secret to that success?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, sometimes growth can, you know, just because you've got loads of numbers in there doesn't mean you're actually making any money.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned that myself like running a recruitment business, you know, it's quality over quantity.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: But what what is the secret source?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's the secret to your success of growing so rapidly?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, you are doing well because you've told us how much you've got under management at the moment as a business?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh$1.2 billion.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's not bad at all, is it?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: So how have you grown so quickly?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's your strategy for that?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think look, we've we've built a proposition on honest and transparency um for advisors and clients, right?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately is what the what everyone wants.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you've had a lot of people want to join the journey.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've told them what the vision looks like of the business, where they can be built, where they can take advantage and kind of share that success.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: As we build a we don't want to make all the money here, we want everyone to have that benefit and feel that they're gonna eventually grow within the business.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think a lot of people have become wrong.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people at the top of the business not doing a lot, taking a nice income, um, and not adding too much else into the business.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I'm self-sufficient, you know.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've still continue to look after my clients and don't I make the business money as opposed to custom money.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think we've been a very lean business because the people at the top are all um still generating and servicing.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just as a load of direct as earning money from underneath.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um we don't have lots of layers, like we have a very flat structure of um for advisors, they speak directly to the exec team.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think I said clients have found it refreshing with someone who's honest, as silly as that sounds, showing telling them what they're going to charge with what the client gets back.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had so many clients say it's actually amazing that you're the first person that's told me they're going to charge me ongoing, which is what I want.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't what why would you why would you not charge me and not service me?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to look after this, and I want you to feel responsible to look after it.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the more my money grows, the more you can get paid.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the simple, the simple things like that.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And by building something with a very solid, transparent, clean brand, I think people have really enjoyed that and wanted to be part of it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler, you guys are are also very serious and already growing the UK market, aren't you, as well?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: So office in the UK and growing a UK-based business.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: What why is that?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it important to have a UK-based business as well as one over in Dubai?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I think the UK is is is an important market, right?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's more opportunity in the UK than internationally, where we are right now.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the UK is also an underbroked market, personally.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of um, there's not many solid advisor firms anymore.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a big gap in the market.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: So within the group, so the group's called Wealth Management Partners, uh, that has all the different businesses within it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: And Arlo, who emerged, have already had exposure in the UK.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got two businesses in the UK, Arlo International and Arlo Wealth, that are two FCA regulated license on an FCA license in the UK.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of them, the International Arm, does passporting into the US and Australia.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we can look after that clientele.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the Arlow um group looks after UK residents for UK advice.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, doing really well, got really solid people in there that we're looking to build out.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now in the UK, we're about to uh launch AHR private clients, which is being headed up by Steve Ayres, the individual that hired me, uh who was the ex-head of Lloyd's Private Banking, to build a team and build a proposition there, because we just think there's a massive market there.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of um people at the banks, people in in um IFAs that want to have a different experience.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that may not, that's not just self-employed.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: We want to give that hybrid to people where you have the ability to have a salary, you are KPI'd, so you can earn still um good earnings if you're doing well for your clients, but you also can have that buyout at the end where the the the company value, the value that you bought in your clients, that the one day you leave the bank and you walk away and you don't get anything back, right?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh doesn't work for a lot of people.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people go self-employed because they want to have the other side, but then a lot of people are in that in-between, scared of self-employed, want the salary, but also want the ability to have that value at the end.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what we're building for for um for people the opportunity to have that hybrid of between the two roles.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: And have you taken that?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have you actually taken that hybrid model to market yet or is it in development stage?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's in development.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, should be going live in the next kind of four to six weeks.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Steve Ayers is the chap who's heading that up, then is he?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: In the UK.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, fab.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he's come from a private banking.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's head, he was head of, was he?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was head of, he was the MD at Lloyd's Private Banking.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he also worked for Smart Pensions, uh, who was like a doing auto enrollment.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, very established, got a big network, really great individual.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he's he's he's in working now.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's it's it's looking really exciting.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: That does sound exciting.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think um you're absolutely right.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the UK, this hybrid model sits in between that gives people the opportunity for a buyout option at the end, I think is fab.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're sort of saying?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, look, if you if you stay with us, there is potential for you to anything you build under management, we'll we'll work out a model that will pay you like a lump sum upon exit.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the business will take you on when you retire, a new advisor will onboard that relationship with you, but you'll also be rewarded for that.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you've not given up that that that book that you may have had for 20, 30 years, right?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you're gonna be looked after, the clients looked after, and and and the business, it kind of works for everyone, really.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: What was also important to us is ensuring that we have a proposition in the UK to repatriate clients to, because the amount of clients we have in Dubai are not going to be here forever.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: So as they move back to the UK, we can refer them on to the UK business and then service them there as well.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of keep that lifetime value of a client because we've got obviously we've got licenses in other parts of the world as well now.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, but the UK to me, with our clientele mainly being British, they're going the highest percentage of clients will move back to the UK.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to make sure that we have a smooth process to continue to that advice piece now and also when they return.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's incredibly vital.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, historically, people would go out and decide to buy, earn a shitload of money, then just come back to the UK, wouldn't they?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the like in respect to financial planners, you know, they would earn really big commissions, come back and buy their houses and stuff like that, but they never can't.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, So you how many clients did you have when you're out there?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And how much money were you like?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Some people I remember I spoke to a guy and he was doing like 1.2 million and he he left, came back to the UK, and that was it.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: He was looking for a job in the UK.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, what happened to that 1.2 million that you were writing?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I've got to leave it.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, wow.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you're absolutely spot on there, aren't you?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the way to do it, because as you right, rightfully say, people want to repatriate to the UK.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, having an ability to be able to advise them wherever they are is is a is a great opportunity, isn't it?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: And look, that's that's uh the the business itself will be a lot stronger um as a proposition for everyone, right?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: If we can look after clients that they move around, or an advisor maybe we move from one country to the next, they can continue working with us, they haven't got to leave.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're trying to set up that we have that lifetime value of a client and an advisor, which I think is is important.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Also, as well, I suppose if somebody wants to go and work in the offshore market, cut their teeth out there, enjoy themselves, say in their 20s, 30s, over in Dubai, wherever it might well be that you're gonna have your your international offices.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they have the ability to do that, but also the ability to come back to the UK and continue to earn in the UK with the same firm and not lose that um that that income.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it helps it actually can be an you know, it's a it's a positive way to start your career, isn't it?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose as well, cutting your teeth somewhere like Dubai where it's a lot harder, you can do it over there and then come back to the UK.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's any easier in the UK, but it's a great start, isn't it?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you can enjoy yourself out there tax-free, get your your high earnings, put some money away, come back to the UK, buy your house, settle down with your family.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a lovely little model, that is, isn't it?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's exactly the model for a lot of them.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people want to do it, eventually move home, but want to continue to be able to look after their clients and not give up what they've worked the last five years for.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think is mad.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: People to come here, leave their clients.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And to onboard a client and build that initial relationship is the hardest thing.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you have the relationship, it's for you to lose, right?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: All you've got to do is service them and look after them correctly.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the clients won't leave you.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't be difficult.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: The hardest thing is to build that client relationship and get that trust at the beginning.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: When you've done that, you should now be able to look after them efficiently and and have them for a long, long time.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's mad that people are comfortable to not do that and leave, right?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are you planning on sort of opening offices internationally, you know, around the world?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got plans to world domination, Tyler?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think we I think we will naturally grow into other areas.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: We are already, we've got offices now in different places.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think for us it's we don't want hundreds and hundreds of advisors in the same area.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we don't want it to be saturated.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather one advisor really doing a great job with lots of referrals and kind of financially doing well for himself, which means naturally he's more relaxed and doing a better job in itself for his clients, as opposed to 10 people doing the same equivalent, all kind of trying to find the same people.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm all about I try and have only one or two advisors on the same area.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have loads and loads.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: And naturally, if they are inundated, we'll put someone else in.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I won't take away from someone to add someone else in there.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make any commercial sense.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: So a typical day for a financial planner, then that's working out in Dubai, for instance, for you guys, you know, how much of their time is focused on client development as opposed to, you know, I assume you take away the marketing and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some branded content, typical types of things.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: How much of their time is spent purely on client development?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it huge?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: It can be loads, right?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on the advisor and how well they're doing.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for someone like myself now, not a lot because I can see clients, I can ask them, oh, even I see so-and-so works there, like, do you mind putting a word in kind of thing?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or who else are you working with that might benefit?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you can do it within the day job of services.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: People that haven't got the clients are going to be spending 90% of their time trying to find it.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's getting a blend, and how well are you spinning them plates?
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: How many people have you got out there referring into you from different different communities and different um roles within the the the the kind of the places you go, right?
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: You could go to the to the golf club, to the football, um, with the dads, and you've got people giving you leads and helping you by spinning their plates.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the better you do at that, the less you have to spend on it.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: But at the beginning, you're spending most of your time trying to find clients.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's getting that blend right because you want to be spending your time servicing clients naturally.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler, I'm not much of a party animal.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't go out and socialise as much as I used to.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't drink, you know, I don't do that sort of thing.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Would I be suitable for somewhere like that?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think, you know, obviously I'm I'm not having got any hangovers, you know, I'm not hull over or anything like that.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very focused on what I do, but I don't like going out and socializing that much.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Would I be a typical person that would do well out there or badly?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it can be challenging, but Dubai can obviously get hold of people as well.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can go out and spend far too much.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the scary statistic is like 77% of people leave Dubai with less than they came with.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see how that you don't come here and start saving into a pension and start having some structured savings automatically, and the people then commit to that bigger house, that nicer car.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in England, you might be earning 100,000, but you're only getting paid 60.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, or even less 50.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got used to 50% of your income.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Here, you're given 100% told to look after it, and people don't seem to set that structure up.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you it'd be difficult at first unless you've got people giving you meetings, clients, which some businesses are better than others for that.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are asked to go out and network and build that in, that might be challenging for someone like you.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not the best at that, to be completely honest.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm very direct in giving advice, looking after them, and being a good guy, but I'm not particularly the great at going into all the small talk for hours and hours to then build their trust.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm, in my opinion, I'm a qualified person.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna sit down, I'm gonna really help you by getting to know you what you want.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm it was hard for me to be honest at the beginning, and that's that's where a lot of people do struggle because that's a personality trait as opposed to anything else.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would it would somebody, you know, from my background of being B2B, I'm B2C and B2B, but I would just want to go out there if I was doing it myself.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd want to go out there and establish myself within the the business community.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to get networking with some very senior individuals that can pass me referrals and get in, you know, what can I, what value can I add to their lives that's outside of taking them to the bloody dog racing or horse racing or something like that?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think you can get all captured up in that.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I can imagine why people leave with less money than they actually come with, because they get carried away, don't they?
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're young, they're not used to having that much money, um, you know, and all of a sudden they're in 10, 15, 20 grand a month and pissing it up against the wall, probably, aren't they?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: What about things like mental well-being, mental health when you're working over in somewhere like Dubai?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine these some of these guys are working crazy hours, long hours, big, you know, they're out networking a lot, socializing a lot.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do we do you see a lower level of mental health?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or because it's such a great place and the weather's great, that you know, the picture in your head is that I'll be smiling every single day.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: What is it really like over there for some reason to well-being?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it um it's a great place to be and it looks great, but it can be challenging, especially in this industry.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because you could have a few bad weeks or things not going how you thought it might, that then financial pressure could happen, um, especially the people at the beginning when they haven't got that ongoing revenue coming in.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it can be difficult.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people then leave and go home because they can't financially stay here, right?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's the difference.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like in England where you'll continue to survive.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't, if you're not earning enough money, you have to leave.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you see that's a high turnover of people here.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that everything happens so quick here, you don't get to see it.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get to feel the work, the working week goes so much faster than from whatever I ever imagined or remembered from back in the UK.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's Thursday, tomorrow's the weekend again.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing how where the week's gone.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think everything happens so quick, you even you either survive or don't here, to be completely honest.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, your advice to be anybody going out there is that don't treat this as a holiday when you first get out there.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: You actually need to get your head down, start building some really good systems and habits and actually make sure A, you've got some money in your bank, there's a bit of security, but also any firm that you're joining are gonna put some financials in place for you and help training, develop you, and keep you on track.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose it's like any kind of habit building, isn't it?
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: The first three months of any experience needs to be so structured that you're getting yourself into healthy routines instead of just going, right, brilliant, I'm in Dubai, I'm gonna go get on it and spend all your money and, like you say, go home with less than they actually came with.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are your plans then for the next say year?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: What are you planning on doing?
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're just looking to grow organically.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the UK is a big growing market for us to be focusing on.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we spend a lot of time trying to help grow and promote that and on board.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, just improve the the assets under management, the the onboarding process, the service piece on how we deliver client, um, how we deliver experiences to clients and adding as many ancillary services as we can.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: So keep building upon delivering a higher level of client experience.
• 1:06:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: So investing in that is just going to keep your clients happy.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna you're gonna get more referrals from the higher level as well, aren't you?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's the priority is make sure that we keep the the good people and and the clients, make sure they're completely happy and the proposition isn't compromised as we grow.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, how many how many people are you looking to grow by over the next year?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got the UK, you've got your Dubai, how many people are you looking to take on?
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a matter of it doesn't matter, we'll take on loads, or I do you have a figure in No, I don't think we do.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think the UK is where it depends how well it goes, how well we take people on and on board them.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about onboarding them properly with a small amount first to then grow that out as opposed to loads of people coming in.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm not interested in that.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm not we're not actively looking at anyone in Dubai at the moment.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll take the right individual that comes past us, but we're not sitting there trying to advertise and put out feelers for who wants to join.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about who we come across, we get on well and think they're going to fit in um with what we're building.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think Europe is an area that we will grow.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: We we're looking at we're acquiring licenses there now.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that naturally will mean that we will try and take on more people there.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but numbers we don't have any kind of ideas on or plans to take a certain amount.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: So acquiring licenses in other countries, for example.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in Dubai and you're saying primarily like your clients are like UK-based clients, let's say how many what percentage of your clients are UK are UK clients expats?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Probably 60, 65%.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then the remainder of the remainder, would they be locals, would they be anybody all over the world?
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: Expats, yeah, but all over could be from anywhere.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: So so it's so the getting the licenses in those countries where say it's important to countries, so we can then look to take on people in different parts of the world.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of almost copy the model you're doing with Dubai to UK.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: It could be UK to, you know, to I don't know.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler, listen, um, you're a busy man, I know that.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I've taken up your time today and I really appreciate it.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for giving us an insight into your career, and thanks for giving us an insight into what it's like working in Dubai.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, let's keep in contact.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really keen to hear about your story as it progresses and it grows.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really pleased that I was instrumental in in your journey, in your journey in some in some form and in some capacity.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the universe was aligned that day, I take it.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, exactly.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, thanks for having me on.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was really interesting.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, nice one, Tyler.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for time, buddy.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers, mate.