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Are You Training to Get Better, or Just Getting Comfortable? · Making Shooters Better

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Our entire mission was to hold the city until we were able to get reinforcements in.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: We only had a tank company, but it was the largest tank company within the US US Army.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we had five five uh tank platoons and then our vehicles were fully combat loaded the entire time.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, really.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we had to be able to roll out the gate within like thirty-five minutes or so.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: My guest today is retired U.S.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Army Master Sergeant and Special Forces veteran William Thornton, whose military journey took him from the 82nd Airborne to Cold War Berlin, and eventually through Special Forces selection before joining Third Group at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Will is a man whose quiet confidence, humility, and unassuming presence rely a lifetime spent in some of the military's most demanding environments.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: But our conversation today is going to go beyond military service.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to explore what it really takes to keep improving.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Why confidence needs to be tested, how mental preparation shapes performance, and why some of the most valuable lessons we ever learn come from the moments when things don't go according to plan.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Making Shooters Better, brought to you by Laser Ammo.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Let's roll the episode.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Will, and welcome to the podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Terry.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am honored to be a guest.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you making the time.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, how old were you when you first started shooting, mate?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I received my first gun.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was a Mossburg 410 when I was around nine, ten years old.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I grew up in rural Virginia in a small town of Appomattox and um farming community, but uh hunting was a uh a big thing that everyone did.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, me and my cousins would get our little guns and go out and uh and and hunt squirrels and rabbits.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh in addition to that, I also was a uh a 4-H member, which is which is like a club.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I had a uh I had hunting classes or uh gun safety classes with those folks as well.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um even at a young age, I uh was able to um uh learn about weapons, learn about weapon safety and hunting safety and things like that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: 410, that's got that's got a little kick for for nine years old.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: What'd you do with that?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I I did good.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I I learned and my uh my uncle showed me how to use it, and I uh definitely used that little bolt action to the best of my uh 10-year-old skill.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And did you put food on the table, literally out there hunting, and then you ate it?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um that is that is what the entire community does.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we did traps as well, um, but hunting and then and getting it and uh you know living in a farm on a farm, living in a farm community, so it was a lot of uh, you know, how how do you acquire the additional meat and stuff like that that you need to uh to survive off or what to eat?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was funny because a lot of my kids' friends did not hunt.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And ours, I had a simple rule.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: We could go out and you could shoot whatever you want to, obviously within reason, but you would eat whatever you shot.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: So that made them very cautious.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: About what they would take down.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: My son would be like, Do I want to eat that?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: He could see the wheels turn and he'd give it some thought.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: But we grew up with you know eating the usual anything that we took was rabbits and squirrels and some birds.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I do remember having a neighbor come over to uh barbecue one afternoon, and he's like, Oh, something smells good.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And when I lifted up the lid, we had a couple of squirrels which look pretty gnarly on there.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, kids are all lined up ready to eat.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, What the hell are you feeding these kids?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it's not a lot of meat on them, but you pull them up and it looks like you're like, oh, it looks like a little rat, maybe.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it does.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a question for every law enforcement agency.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: If your officers struggle to find time to get to the range, why not bring more training opportunities to them?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Long shifts, family commitments, limited resources, we all know the challenges.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: But far as proficiency is a perishable skill and qualifying once or twice a year at the range simply isn't enough.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's where laser ammo comes in.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: From reactive tactical targets and recall-enabled training pistols to our immersive smokeless range simulator, we help departments create realistic, convenient training opportunities right at their facilities.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Even 15 minutes of perfect practice can make a huge difference for every officer.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's where I can help you select the right equipment for your officers and your training objectives without turning the purchasing process into another full-time job.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Also, when you contact me directly, Terry at laser ammo.com, you'll receive 12.5% off regular pricing.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: So let's make better preparation easier because readiness doesn't happen by accident, it happens by design.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Laser ammo, train with purpose, perform with confidence.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now, back to the episode.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: So you have had quite an eclectic career.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to now jump into you were with the 82nd Airborne, something to do with the Berlin Brigade, which I know nothing about and can't wait to explore, but eventually ended up in the third special forces group.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll go back to the beginning.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: What drove you to go into the airborne?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: Is it they call it division?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the airborne division?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it airborne division?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh a funny story.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know I spent uh a lifetime volunteering for things that I knew nothing about.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I actually came in the uh the army um as a uh an armored crewman uh on tanks.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I can remember you know sitting at home when I was a high school senior, and I was looking at the the TV, and and there was these M1 tanks, these X M1s.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know what, that would be exciting.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I signed up and went to basic training uh in Fort Knox, Kentucky, back when they headed there.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was in basic training and I saw the M1s in the motor pool, but then I saw these these other tanks.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, when are we gonna get on the tanks?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: When are we gonna get in the tanks?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, well, those are not your tanks, those are for the Marines.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your tanks are over here.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So while I was there in basic training, the um we had a uh a uh a recruiter come down from um the 82nd, and he was like, How would you like to be an airborne tanker?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, sign me up, Sarge, put me in there.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I went from uh from uh that M60 tank to uh you know, I guess the United States only uh airborne armor uh unit that was in the 82nd at that time.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that was exciting times because it was something different.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was not your your your typical armor unit.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um spent uh about three years there, and it was just uh a joy, you know, heavy dropping or or lapseeing the tanks as they call, pushing them by the back of the airplane, and just the whole feel of being in the airborne unit was was was super gratifying for me.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, I have no experience with 82nd Airborne beyond having met a couple over the years since living in the States.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Training is supposed to be pretty challenging.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did the recruiter give you any clue about what you were getting into when he's like, come on, join us.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, he was just sharply dressed and uh and uh had his uh maroon beret on, and I was like, you know what?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I need some of that in my life right now.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a 17, 18-year-old kid and stuff, so you know, I I I just wanted to do something, shooting or whatever and stuff.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh went straight I went uh from uh basic training.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I went home for the weekend, and I was supposed to have reported to uh the airborne school, which was the first time that I ever been in an airplane, and then let alone jumping out of one.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that was uh an adventure within itself.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that, got bust right up to the 82nd and went to my unit.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 17 or 18, they don't warn you about what your knees are gonna be like when you get to our age.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: My gosh.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you don't get the recruiter saying, Listen, your joints are gonna be uh hating on you later in life.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: All that running you like to do, uh plan on walking from now on.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're gonna be moving a lot slower when you get into those 40s and 50s.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So do they still, when you were going through, because I watched a video on this the other day while I was doing some research before this podcast, and it looked like they had a four-section, I don't know, scaffolding, for want of a better term.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they would hoist these guys up and shout instructions at them and then let them go.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they kind of floated down.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: There was a canopy above and off they came.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So was that something they were doing um back in your day?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, back back then, um that was the uh, I guess the 250-foot tower.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And really, in essence, what they did was you know put your parachute in there, inflate it, yeah, and just haul you up to the top of this tower.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a little sand, I can't remember what it was now, but um you know, jump the tower or whatever, and then they you know take you up a little bit and then you just float down to the ground.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was your initial experience of actually being under a uh under a canopy.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then from there, that was ground week, the last week ground week, and then uh the next week they put you in airplanes and you did your five jumps.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: So what altitude were you at for your first few jumps?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it was uh about yeah, what twelve hundred feet or so?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: No problem with heights?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: No problem with heights.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh back then I didn't.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh jumping out of airplanes, surprisingly enough, we've had some people who were afraid of heights, uh, but still still able to jump out of airplanes.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: So there's something about having all those guys lined up with you that makes you kind of you know pull up your uh big boy pants and get it on.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I have you're not stopping.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: I have this vision in my head, having done very limited amounts of any of that for adventure training, because uh the the a military unit I was in that wasn't part and parcel, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: That wasn't just normal.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: We were, you know, sea and land predominantly.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: But went on adventure training, and I just remember looking down from the heights when we were doing some of our uh repelling and stuff, thinking, I don't know.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'd probably I might grow claws if I was in the doorway of an aircraft and they're trying to push me out.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: You should try it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's never too late.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've done some free fall since then, and I didn't have any problem with it because there was no because there's nothing around you, there's no perspective.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: It kind of felt like, well, this is fine.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got nothing to look at, but there was something about being close to other structures.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like I imagine that tower, if anything was gonna give me a problem, it would have been the 250-foot tower.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and you get and they dangle you there for a little bit anyway before they actually let you go.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not up and down.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is up.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta hang there for them to drop the other people around you, and then they they they finally get to you and you drop down.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember how many jumps you ended up making over the course of your career?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I do not.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I I you know I I did all my jumps there, and then I uh I had my my seven-year break not jumping when I went to uh uh Berlin, and then I got back and I did so much.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I wanna say it was upwards of 250 or something like that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Static line jumps.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was n never never free falling.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned Berlin Brigade.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta talk talk me through that because I haven't heard of it until talking to you.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: So what was that?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh after World War II, uh, you know, the Allied you know, they they divided up Berlin.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you had the uh the Americans, the British, and the French in West Berlin, and then in Eastern Berlin.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is uh prior to unification of uh of um of of Germany.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so we had a uh a brigade of army uh within Berlin, and our whole our entire mission was to hold the uh um the city until we were able to get reinforcements in.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So once again, a another unique unit um coming from Airborne, going to Berlin, um, because A was a propaganda city, uh, because you had to have you couldn't have any strikes on your records or things like that.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but secondly, um we we only had a tank company, but it was the largest tank company within um within the uh the the US US Army.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we had five five uh uh tank platoons, and then our vehicles were fully combat loaded the entire time.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, really.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we had to be able to roll out the gate within like 35 minutes or so.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So during that time, uh around 85, I say from 85 to 92, um, so i it was the the entire Cold War going on.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so we had had all of that going on.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in the city when um Ronald Reagan came in and and gave his uh Gorbachev turd on his wall.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Was in the city when the actual wall came down, and then um uh in '92 they deactivated the unit.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I actually came back to the United States.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: You were there when the wall came down.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: What a memory.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is uh uh living living history.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was also there when you know the there was a discotheque that was bombed, uh the bell discotheque uh that that sparked a uh uh um a uh bombing uh Libya, I believe.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I was there uh doing an entire uh reunification uh of of Germany.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: What was the bombing for?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like who bombed what?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess uh the intelligence that he got it was uh the uh the bombing of the discotheque was sponsored by Libya.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh it was so well yeah, so that's uh um once again for President Reagan was in uh in charge, uh was the president at the time, and uh we we decided to bomb Libya.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: So at what point did the special forces end up on your radar?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um uh I was in tanks in in armor once again, and it was really a repetitive thing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So being in the city, your your maneuvers uh room was restricted.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: We had a uh a city there that we can go maneuver in.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: But all of our you know, gunneries and things like that was West Germany.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So every year you can look forward to doing the same thing.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I got a little got a little bit bored being on tanks.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love my tank crew.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm still really good friends with a lot of the uh the folks who were stationed there.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my mind was fixated on going back to an airborne unit.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe at that time my my old unit back in the 82nd was uh deactivating as well, and they was getting rid of uh uh the Sheridan tanks.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so um I had started reading about um special forces uh as a a a different route to go.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it helped that uh within Berlin we also had the own organization formerly known as uh Detachment A, who was once again a special forces detachment, but they were they were um not known, not openly known to a lot of people.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they were there, and then um the brig brigade commander was um a uh special forces um officer, um General uh Sydney uh Schacknow.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I met him a couple of times and he just uh inspired me to uh to to look at something different.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I I leaned forward and uh decided to go to selection from Berlin.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and and funny enough, I had really considered just getting out the out the military.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if I hadn't if I had not made uh special forces uh selection uh an assessment, I would have uh I would have you know probably wound up getting out the military and just living there in Germany.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunate enough, I came back, uh went through uh selection process, was selected, and then uh left Berlin and uh I came straight into the uh the uh special forces qualification course.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: So what was your preparation like getting ready for that?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because I assumed there was at least an interim time period there where you were kind of putting in some miles and getting some training in.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I uh fortunate I I I lived off off base, so I had a I had a routine, I had a a generalized workout of how much how far I need to ruck.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um once again, mindset was hey, I'm I'm a uh I'm a tank guy.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: The furthest I I've rucked was six miles or so.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I uh you know I did my my biking every day.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I I intentionally rode you know 12 miles a day to work and back home, swam at lunchtime, uh did my rucksacks, especially on the weekends when I had the time to do my long ones.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: So out in the uh in the, as they say in Germany, the uh the Gunewald, um, walking through the woods with my rucksack on, probably looking pretty weird to a lot of people who were uh walking through out for pleasure and stuff.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And here's this guy out here walking around with a rucksack.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So put in the miles and got my legs in it in feet conditioned um for uh for a uh special forces uh selection.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when you say get your feet in condition, we used to use white spirits to deaden or kill the skin.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: At least I still remember it's white spirits, it could have been who knows what compuls we had at the time.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I did that prior to joining up too, because one of the things I was afraid of was stuff like blisters that you're gonna get them eventually, but you if you can avoid it for as long as possible.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have anything like that that you were doing?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some I I did not.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I had two pair of boots that I I knew I was gonna take, and I would just alternate those and and walk, walk, walk, walk.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um funny enough, you know, I I was in my mind, I'm not gonna change anything.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when I got to selection, for some reason I I changed out of insole or something like that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Me looking at some of the uh the infantry guys there, and I'm like, okay, let me change this up.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And on my first long movement, I got a huge blister on my heel.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, you know what, this is not stopping me.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I took a uh I took a knife and cut the heel plate out of my uh out of my boot and put uh duct tape uh around the back of it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for the rest of my uh the selection process, I wore those shabby boots and threw them away at the end.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you do what you have to, yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's the commitment.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's not finding an excuse to stop, it's finding a way to work around whatever's impeding you and pushing on.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember how many guys started for your selection?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think we had a it was May and hot coming from Germany uh to the United States, it was uh exceedingly hot.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want to say at least 400 to 450 started and then about 150 uh uh ended.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of heat casualties, a lot of um just people just weren't weren't prepared to go.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: And was there an opportunity?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody went down with some type of injury or heat exhaustion, we would pull that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: You could get back troops.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: You might go out for an injury, but they put you sort of into a remedial center until you're heat you healed up, and then you would just join another troop and try again.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have something similar, or was it okay, you didn't make it, you didn't make it?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I so I I think back at that at that time, if you didn't make it, you would go back to your unit and you could reapply to come back.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh so that was these I I don't think they had a a troop's.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Holding area right there to wait wait till someone healed because really, in theory, you you belong to your your your unit that you came from, and uh they were responsible for your your medical care once you got back.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now I did interview someone who had gone through was a SEAL, and he had through injury, and I say fail, I don't want to say fail, that's a horrible term.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't make it because of these injuries, but he came back three times, and three times had to do Hell Week.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: But he made it.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean you see people all the time uh coming back multiple times uh to selection.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now I had a couple of uh folks in my old unit that did the same thing.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um as a matter of fact, when I got to third group, uh one of the guys who were it was a uh a cadre out and uh uh at the uh selection and and uh assessment.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he uh he said this name.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know that guy.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know that guy, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: But he never he he never wound up making it through uh the the process, and I think he went three times.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh it's so hard on your body.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's a dedication and a commitment you have to have to make it a tour.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: But there's something about returning for the knowing exactly what's coming.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because obviously, for me, it was uh to a point there was a little bit of naivety.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: There wasn't too much that we even knew about the Royal Marine Commandos.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: The little that I had heard was, you know, if you want to earn the British Green Beret, you're gonna be in shape and you're gonna be able to, you know, jump over buildings in a single bound.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was a whole bunch of bullshit.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: But you going into it, not knowing much, because there's a lot of info now available publicly, it kind of can give you a much more holistic view of everything you're gonna go through.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Back then there wasn't very much.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Other than anticipating getting your ass kicked, it was very much just, well, can you hack it?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, do you want to make it?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you push through.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I think if I had for whatever reason, you know, not made it through that process, and there was a lot of people that didn't.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know in hindsight if I would have had the gumption to go back and go, you know what, I'm gonna hit this again because that was a lot of fun first of the project.
• 24:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it a lot of times it's it's a mindset if a person wanted, they will uh um continually go back.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I can actually hear my wife in my in the background right now.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: She's not here, of course, but she would be saying, bullshit, you would absolutely go back, you stubborn bastard.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And she's probably right, but it's just sort of funny to think at the point where most people get injured or are are you know beaten up and they can't make it through, the urge to just go back to a comfortable life might be might be tempting.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's that's why we have those that process, that selection and and and and assessment process, um, so that you can kind of look at you know the character of a person.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if they come back and they didn't make it the next time, um it it I would I would venture to say it probably makes them uh um more worthy of being there.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because there's a certain tenacity you have to have to go back.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta have you gotta be tenacious to get through the first time, but coming back a second or a third time, for sure.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, just a quick reminder if you're enjoying the episode, don't forget to hit that like button.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Your support means the world and it helps us keep pushing forward, creating this content.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now, back to the podcast.
• 25:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did your understanding of preparation in general terms change as you progress through your either the special forces training or even your life um in that unit?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I was always a um an athlete, and I say that I I was a late bloomer as far as an athlete.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I I ran new track and field, um, I ran hurdles, matter of fact, yeah, and high jump.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um but so I on that level I was always able to train.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I you know I I knew what pain was, pain of training was.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other mindset thing that comes into that is um from the different units I was in.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in the airborne unit and and uh looked at, you know, I guess you could say fear straight in the eyes and said, you know, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna not gonna allow this to stop.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that all that preparation um kind of combined together helped to help to put me in a mindset that I I once I knew what I wanted, um, I was gonna go go forward and and and do it as uh the best I could.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do remember having a moment, probably at least twice during the totality of the course of getting through, where I thought, am I why wh why am I doing it?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: One of those moments you feel sorry for yourself.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: But every time somebody else quit, and invariably it was people that surprised you that would quit.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you would have some physical specimen over there, and he's like, I had enough of this crap and they're out.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And every time that happened, I'd kind of I don't know, I felt like I dug my heels in a little further and went, ah, there's another one down.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, statistically speaking.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, in s in uh selection back in those days, um, they they call it a shack of shame.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you would have the folks who you know during the daytime, and it's not all just physical because um you're you're sleep deprived.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times you're you know you're not getting all your meals.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well you're getting your meals, but you know, you're you're at a calorie uh deficit.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then in the middle of the night, you know, you go to bed and it's you know, I don't know, 12 people in there, you wake up the next morning and it's nine.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now uh because you're you're all in a team and you gotta go into these team events, so how do they debvy up, uh Dvy up that load and stuff?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you just just keep driving up, put your head down, you know, ruck on and just keep going.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that's it's funny.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: In hindsight, I know that it was ever it was other people quitting, it was uh you know, seeing some of the challenges that were still to come.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was the hell week where you're not getting much sleep.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: If any, you're not really eating, you're cold, you're wet the entire time.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you just reach a point where I could I would look at the training team and I'm like, you're not winning.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like I am, I'm here.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'll drop dead of hypothermia, but I'm not quitting.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so funny to find that drive, even if I didn't necessarily know when I first went in that I had that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: It just, I don't know, maybe all that uh abuse it revealed it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it absolutely um, you know, when you take something like that and the challenge, maybe that you've never felt that challenge before, and you rise to the top, you're like, you know what?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um didn't know I had it in me, but now I now that I know, um, how do I keep how do I keep developing that?
• 29:20
  unknown: Yep.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the problem now is I still have some of that mentality, but I'm significantly older and a lot more fragile.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: So now I have to go, you're not 20 anymore.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna bounce back from this as quick as you thought you used to.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Expect expectation management.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: So if you had someone stand in front of you contemplating a similar journey to yours, how would you try to prepare that person individually for the exhaustion that comes, the uncertainty, even the unexpected challenges they're gonna face?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would I would really look at them and and first to see what their work ethic is.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are they willing to to put in the miles and the and and all the extracurricular things it takes to get you there um physically?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if they check that box, then I will I will just see what kind of character they have.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have a, yep, I'm not gonna quit type mentality, or oh, this is too hard and I I'm not gonna do this anymore.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So once they get to that point, then you know, uh you can be a physical specimen, but if your mind lets go of everything, then that that kind of that's that second telltale sign that's that probably gonna prohibit you from actually making it do a a uh a program like that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: I had a friend of mine, someone I was more of an acquaintance at the time, but I'd made it through training, you know, got my commando flashes, and I was kind of like, all right, you know, we've got it going on.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: I remember going home for a weekend and I met this guy who just happened to be walking down the street and he's like, hey, how you doing?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: I you know we chatted for a few minutes and he said, I haven't seen you in a while.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I told him, yeah, and we joined up and told him what branch, and he said, Oh, I've always thought about doing that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's uh that's one of those things I maybe I should do.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I'd heard that so many times by that point with people who were going to do a thing and never did.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so I said, I'll tell you what, uh, you come to my house on Sunday morning and uh you know, wear some gear, you don't mind getting a bit dirty, and we'll go for a run.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And feel bad now because he's a very good friend of mine, and he did make it through training.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I like to feel like I helped him.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I ran his ass ragged for hours.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: We went up into the we lived out in the country, went up to the woods.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: There were lots of you know hills to run, and there were swamps and all kinds of crap.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I put him through the lot, I mean, for hours on end.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember finishing that and he crawled basically down that driveway back into the house at the end of this thing, just filthy, white.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: He looked like he was gonna die, but he never quit.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because he's you know, I remember him saying very rude things to me uh at the time, and uh we had a good laugh about it.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm I do remember after you know beasting him for the duration of this training session, saying, uh the fact that you showed up is one thing.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you just did everything I asked is another.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you have still got the willpower to you know run this last half mile home, even though you were dying, tells me that if you decide you're you want to do this, you you have a very good chance of making it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And there will be a lot of people along this journey who don't.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: They just don't have that fortitude, they don't have the discipline.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be the fastest, you don't have to be the strongest.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, and often many cases it's best not to be.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Just find your pace and just don't stop.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And he did.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: He went off on a first-time run through, you know, and the attrition rate for Royal Marines is pretty high, and he made it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh another part about the you know uh assessment of selection is that you don't get a lot of information.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: You get just do the best you can.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people need, especially in the military, they need that I know how fast I I have to do this to get to this point.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and that that just blows their mind a lot of times.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're when you're sitting in the bay in the middle of the night and you're you're three or four hours that you have to sleep, and you're like, you know what, I I don't like this.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then you just pack up your your little bit of gear and you go off to your to the next hut, and you're like, you know, I'm done with this.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, there are a lot of elements, right?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: There are a lot of elements, I think, that are intrinsic.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: There was there was definitely times when it felt debilitating to not know what the goal was.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: What is the time period, what is the distance, when is this over?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Not knowing, which was frequent, kind of gets you into the mind frame of, okay, I've got to find that exact balance of pushing as hard as I can, but knowing I can keep pushing for an indeterminable time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it was being able to do that and settle into that sort of rhythm of okay, just one foot in front of the other and just keep going until somebody says this is over.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of people need to know where the end point is.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they've got an hour.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what drew me into that, you know, the the special special operations, special forces world, because I I you know I had a thing with authority figures as well as a game, but I I I I just like being able to just tell me, you know, in general what you want me to do and let me go do it and stuff.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't stand over me and do this and stuff.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it it kind of fit into my personality.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not liking to be micromanaged, being trusted enough to be a grown-up to get off and do it.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: So is that one of the things that you learned about yourself after the military or even during that that time in?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I uh I knew it early on, but I I couldn't put a name to it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I got into the military and I went through started growing in rank and things like that, I I I knew instantly.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was one of the reasons why I left Armor.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, I was I was doing well in Armor.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, I was the only uh E5 tank commander in my unit.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was just something about that whole thing that made me want to uh change jobs and go in a different direction.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you distinguish now genuine confidence from someone who's simply never been tested?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I think that you know, if if a person is it's it's one thing to be confident.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's one thing to carry that confidence.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when a person starts to talk and he has a certain amount of confidence, the question in the back of my mind, it always goes to my mind, is okay, how do we how do we test this confidence that you have?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people talk.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know this more than anyone, a lot of people talk and they talk, talk, talk.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, when it comes time to doing, I I I consider myself a doer.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Very little talk, just you know, point me in a direction and let me go and I'll I'll I'll get it done to the best of my ability.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but some people, when they continue to talk and they talk past the point of actually doing something, then I'm like, okay, um in my mind I'm asking the question, how how will this guy react or this person react um uh in the uh in uncertain times, in times of stress, and in times when um you know they might fail.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or if they fail, what's gonna be their reaction after that?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna learn from it or are they just gonna blame someone else for their failures?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: There's definitely something to be said for the humility, I think, that should accompany the confidence.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I've always gravitated to people that have the quiet confidence and the humility to understand that unrecognized.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: So they don't know everything.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: You can't possibly, you can't be prepared for everything.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: You have to accept that at some point there's a situation you're gonna face where you're going to be out of your depth and very uncomfortable in in an understanding and recognizing that you don't know what the hell you're doing.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because for me, I think at least a lot of talkers, I do this, I can do that.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And when they're pushed, when they've uh are taken out of their comfort zone, out of the things that they they can actually control into a situation where the the environment or the circumstances conspire against them and they crumble.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, see, this is the lesson you need to learn.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of military, maybe even first responders as well, that's something that on the back side, or even maybe perhaps during that experience, you do learn.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: You learn bloody humility and you realize, you know, something's gonna come along one day and you're not gonna have the answer.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've uh you know, I I've experienced some some humility quite a quite a few times because you you don't always succeed.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it is the the time those times of failure that has really um helped me to grow because people who always succeed, and and I used to coach track, and one of the things that I used to always say about about kids and and and the running track, and early on, you know, you have some kids who are really, really athletic early on, and they're winning.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're winning all the time.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: But as they start to get older, that competition gets a little bit more fiercer.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when they start to lose, and you can see their whole demeanor change because now they face their first loss or their second loss or their third loss.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them don't go into the next level because their experience, their their their psyche, their their mindset, their their confidence level has been shot.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, the kid who's grinding hard, who's progressively getting better, and he might have a couple of losses every now and then, but he's his work ethic is there and he pushes himself past it, that is the person that I look for going to the next level and being able to compete with with those around him.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a subtle difference in how that person responds, but it's like the failures of the fuel that burns then to push them to the next level.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the amount of times I fall on my face and just be like, well, yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is well done, like you failed.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: But it there's also some being hu being humble in the middle of that failure and being humble before you failed means that you could I always find it a little easier to sort of laugh it off, but also then okay, right, well, we're just gonna adjust our uh plan and and dig back in and go again.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you take that mindset into everything that you do, there's you know this all-around growth.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even yeah, I'm working on my you know, my grandparents' uh farmhouse, and I'm not the construction guy, but I but I I want to learn.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you Google something, you YouTube it or whatever, and you get in there like, okay, I'm just changed out the plumbing in here.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ah, I wish I hadn't done that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll learn now or something, I'm gonna go back and make it better.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: So a big portion of this show is definitely anchored around helping people mentally prepare for a situation that's very hard to practice.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: But we can do competitive shooting, we can test ourselves in a variety of different ways with the firearms and shooting situations and environments, but the reality is until they're thrown sort of feet first into the fire in a real situation, it's very hard to prepare people, I think, for an experience that is is very likely going to be outside of anything they can be emotionally ready for or even physically ready for.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: So if you had someone standing in front of you and you were thinking, okay, you know, no, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, how might you guide them to incorporate elements of training that they might be missing out on in order to get them to a place where they have the best chance of succeeding and, you know, in some cases winning?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um You know, I am a firm believer of practice, practice, practice, but I am also a firm believer in the mental part that goes along with it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, going back to everything that I've I've done earlier on, I learned to kind of sit quiet for a little bit and visualize what I want to do.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if I could see it in my mind and I could practice it, you know, with my body, with everything I know from my training, then I'll just get better.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I when I first started shooting pistols, I was horrendous.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was my shot group was all over the place.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't hit an elephant at 10 meters, you know.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's also hard to shoot, and people underestimate that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But but when I but when I I found it my my best revelation and best practice time with pistols came was when I was dry firing and just going through the motions of drawing and presenting my weapon and and and firing over and over and again in front of a mirror, without a mirror, and um visualizing it.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: So when back to uh coaching track, when I used to coach my my high jumpers, I used to always have this thing because they just want to get to the line and run and jump over the bar.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, stop.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Take a couple deep breaths, visualize yourself going over the bar.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually that that whole process starts to slow all the action down.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you know, experienced shooters will tell you that uh eventually, you know, when they're shooting, you know, they can see the slide action, and sometimes they'll catch a glimpse of a bullet leaving, even and stuff.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's all of that, but it's it's practice.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you practice, the more you visualize, the more you put your mind into it.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um Everything starts to slow down around you.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I call it being in a zone and stuff.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then you find yourself in a zone.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the hardest things to do is to be adaptable in a situation you've never envisioned finding yourself in.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the tendency is I'm good and still do teach personal safety.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I teach from the standpoint of human behavior, human performance.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is a lot of times if there's a downside to visualization at all, because I actually love visualizing.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: But an individual that has visualized to a very small degree only one type of outcome in a situation where everything lines up perfectly for them.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so their response to that situation is perfect because the situation they visualize themselves being in is perfect.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's the wrong way to do it.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things try to get people to do is okay, I want to put you in a hypothetical situation.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: You're having to defensively engage with your firearm.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: But here's the situation.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is already unfolding.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't paying attention.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: What is your very first move?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's getting them to visualize things having already got to a place where they're probably going to lose and making them figure out their responses under as much pressure as possible rather than perhaps visualizing a perfect outcome, but it's based on the back of a perfect scenario they gave themselves in the first place.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Visualization comes in great when you are on a flat range and you're going through the mechanics of learning something and you're trying to get good at, you know, putting putting rounds in a three-inch dotter or whatever.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um but of course, as you as you get comfortable with comfortable with that, you have to start adding in those those um those additional factors that makes you know that shooting skill not perfect.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you you run them for you know 200 meters or whatever, and run them around obstacles, and then they have to engage targets, or you start to add in all of these, you know, sounds and you know, you know, you know, my my shooting experience has gone from you know, you start on a flat range, you just you know get yourself on paper and you start to hit center targets, and then you start to move into more stressful things by adding that stress into it and allowing yourself.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course you get to the point where you're you're clearing a house in the middle of the night uh on a knot, and you still have to accomplish your mission.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um adding in those stresses as you go along while you're practicing, so that when that that um time actually comes, um you're it's instinct.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's all instinct for you.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's something to be said, isn't there, for putting somebody into a position where they are having to think under pressure, but you've got to get used to thinking under pressure, controlling heart rate, controlling your breathing.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe even as you just alluded, working as part of a team, doing a building, a room entry.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Most people, when we practice uh stuff, especially on an actual live range, there are not other people running around, right?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're not in your own home, depending on who you live with, it could be as simple as stripping over the bloody dog while you go to investigate that bump in the night, right?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: You just you've got to put yourself into as realistic a situation as possible and then learn to manage the stress that comes with that type of environment or that type of situation, versus constantly staying at the flat range, shooting a three-inch target at seven yards and going, look at me, I'm nails.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're like, Yeah, but nothing else is going on here, but nothing else is going on.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: This is the easiest it will ever be for you.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you think those skills are going to transfer to a real life situation?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think many people are actually prepared to do that.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, I uh my my wife, yeah, you know, we we go to the range, we've gone to the range we've shot a couple of times.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't introduced her to those those stressors yet.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in the she's asking for it.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she's asking for it.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I know eventually I'll have the we said have the opportunity and the joy to introduce it to some some other stressors that she's not really used to and she hasn't been exposed to.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um because yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Even even the depends on your house, how do you how do you get your house out so that um it it is prepared for, you know, you keep it you try to keep your floors clear, but and not have a have a dog sitting in the middle of your your your egress router, your but um but yeah, you you you never know.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I am a firm believer in in practicing those things.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um yes, and then having great open lines of communication with all the loved ones that are either going to help or hinder potentially and that clear plan.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: But the fact that your wife asked for that, because see mine would never ask for extra stress.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: That would just result in marriage counseling.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: If I try putting her under pressure.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm still trying to get her to uh to fire the shotgun, she won't do that at all.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: So hey, we get to we'll get to an indoor range and we'll we'll bring the shotgun with us.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny though, because for those couples that do train together and get used to you know the mannerisms and the nuances of firearm manipulation around each other, they tend to not only end up being the safest shooters amongst us because there's nothing like operating in an environment where potentially you have people you love downrange.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to maneuver around them, right?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a perfect world.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: I had somebody once say, you know, oh, you muzzle swept this or that person muzzle swept that, and it was a YouTube video.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I agree with them.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you with a firearm, you are as safe as you can possibly be at every opportunity, right?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: You were safety first.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: But the reality is, in the real world, somebody's gonna get flagged at some point.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: So now you you know you fall back on all the other things.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is your finger off the bloody trigger?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, is it a minimal amount of time, right?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: You just I remember stacking and being second man in the stack, and you know, this guy's muzzle was lower than it should have been, you know, he should have been up nice and high.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, put my hand behind it, give him a little lift.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you want to just get that off my head?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: But the reality is that's the kind of stuff that happens in the real world, and you can't let it throw you off your game because that's part and parcel of the stress you're gonna feel dealing with a real world situation.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh you know you go back to to spouses and you uh we we all have a way of testing our spouse to make sure they're the right one.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the uh the breakthrough for us was uh I was able to get her on a uh what we call one of those slides, one of those um uh zip line.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to get her on one on a zip line.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And she wasn't she didn't like it at all.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell by her her whole demeanor.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: But she but she chuped up and she did it.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know what, you're the one.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're all the one.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it you know, every once in a while we'll we will go shoot together.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: We do a lot of dry fire training at home as well, and she loves doing that.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: One of the problems with getting to an indoor range is how noisy it tends to be on an indoor range.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: She doesn't like that.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, getting it to go can be a challenge.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: And another part of that also comes down to well, I have you.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Why do I need to be competent at shooting?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: And my attitude is always a good shot or a lucky shot that drops me means you are now on your own.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna do?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I think it's sort of backtrack a little bit there, that humility of knowing it could be you, whether that person, you know, just outskills you in CQB or you just screw up, or they get lucky.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna make any damn difference.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm already down.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna do?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's always been kind of a little bit of a uh a nudge for her to keep her skills up to a degree that she's like, okay, well, if you do go down, I can at least protect myself from this point forward, right?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are all great things to think about, especially from a uh a defensive standpoint.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, as as you know, veterans, we also look at how how are we supposed to protect our families and so forth.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, some of the onus is also how do you train the rest of the team also to step up?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it is it is a team effort.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just that one person, just like any other team that you've been on.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, my tank, my tank crew, my my my special forces team.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how do you make sure that everyone you can kind of spread that spread that goodness uh within the team so you everyone's cross-trained.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody knows everybody else's strengths and weaknesses to the best.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, of course, in a team like that, there aren't that many weaknesses.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: But they are there.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to know when someone's natural aptitude for a particular thing may be a hindrance, you know, or it's beneficial, and we leverage that.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: That person is better at this than me.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: Let them do this, right?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: But you've got to be willing to say that that's not my strong suit and step back.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's something about being tested in a military environment that that helps you either come out one way or the other, where you feel like you can handle absolutely everything, and so to a point, many of us do, but also recognizing where we might fall short and know that no, that's not my strong suit.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is something you would be great at.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: Can you can you do this?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I'll support you in this role.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one of the things I always think about is um, and you see it with kids and athletes and and athletics all the time, um, you don't want to play up.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's easy playing with you know people that's on the same level.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the only way to get better is is if you play against people who are uh stronger who are faster than you are, because it's only gonna make you better.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you go back to being a team, and you know, this guy is is is great, he's a great shooter, he's a great uh combo guy.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, pair yourself up with him.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, strap onto his his his belt buckle and go, you know what?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know everything that you know.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I wanna I want to get better.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, having the humility to go, hey, I don't know everything, but I want to get better at the skill, uh at the many skills that we might have and stuff as as best as I can be and stuff.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: So great.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I like that because you do, you challenge yourself, you go up against people who are better than you, and you you know, watch some of the things that they do, and you go, I haven't even thought of that.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't tell you how many times over the years, especially with you know either competitive shooting or like being on um Topshot on the History Channel.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there were some great shooters on there.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm watching some of this going, man, I've never thought of that.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't necessarily a huge change to either grip or position or shooting, but there was something that I had never tried, and I'm like, well, there's there's a reason that person is doing that particular skill that way, and it changed how I approached that skill myself going down.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it's always it's great.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: I love this element of hanging around with people who are better at you at things and then just soaking it up.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: That is that has always been my mantra.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, even from a coaching standpoint right now, um surrounding myself with with with competent coaches who who who understand the profession and who will go up and beyond to kind of help you elevate your level.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so grateful just to be around, just to have people around me like that.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now that I'm you know, uh I hate to say retired, now that I've uh finished up my federal time, um, I'm surviv I'm I'm finding new areas that I'm I'm interested in, that I'm curious about, and that I can go into and just find those few people or those those uh those ninjas or those those Jedi's in that particular field and uh latch myself onto them and just uh find the opportunity to learn from them as well.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, always learning.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: I love the idea of being a perpetual student.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: So when you did retire out of both the military and federal service, did you did you have any any struggles there with it sort of redefining or figuring out your your new identity or your new sense of purpose?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had I had thought about it for a while um prior to retiring.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've always wanted to to help people grow.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to help people um be the better version of themselves, whatever that that might be for that particular person.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was a it was a natural um transition for me as I started to go into uh you know being a transformational coach and being a uh a business consultant is to look for uh opportunities where either entrepreneurs want to scale their business up and they just need to be a little bit more organized or they need to be a little bit more um, they need to have a little bit more uh mentorship and and how having to organize themselves.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or um people who uh feel stuck in in whatever area of their life, and they just need somebody to talk to uh or to partner with to kind of talk out where they're stuck, how they're stuck, and then really discover what what avenues they have before them to actually to get become unstuck.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, when I uh you know, I yeah, I can still say that I'm in a a transitional period myself because I haven't gotten into my full stride, but um I'm a lot more comfortable um being retired now because it gives me the opportunity to um to uh to breathe, to think, to just uh um explore and and just be curious about a excuse me, a lot of different things.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: One of the um the biggest things is when I was first, probably my first month or so, uh in my mindset is I I don't want to be still, I want to, I want to stay with it.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was you know getting up at you know five o'clock in the morning, working out, and I'm gonna be sitting at my desk working at at you know at eight o'clock in the eight o'clock in the morning.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna work till five.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, of course, you have your your better half goes, you know, why are you doing that?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well really, do you really need to do that?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, that's just pressure I put on myself.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: So now I'm able to, okay, I can I can take a day off to go, you know, do whatever and have fun or go go karting with my my my daughter or whatever and stuff.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, but it it it it takes those transition points in your life to kind of realize that and then um realize where you've been, where you are, and then you know, kind of see what uh where the direction you want to go in.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: You might not go exactly in that direction, but it at least it it in your mind you can kind of visualize where you want to go and what you want to do.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've spoken to a lot of veterans, myself included, that found civilian life challenging for at least the first year or two.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: I just I don't know.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: There's a mindset in there with being having served.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you come out and you just see the world through a slightly different lens.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you're also capable of you know great violence if need be.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to check that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like that there's a way that you approach problems, there's a a way that civilians typically approach problems.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I over those years, those that year to two years, you know.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember having conversations with either people I that were still in at the point or others who had got out.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: That there was definitely a period of adjustment where I kind of had to put my military head off over here and get my civilian head on and kind of change my uh lens, so to speak, for looking at the world.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Did you go through a similar period like that?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: And are you helping those that are sort of in that transitional phase now?
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's uh so fortunately for me, when I I went from active duty, uh so it it it you could say it was a long transition.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: I went from active duty to be becoming a civilian and working that 20 years there.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I had a mix of um active duty civilians and and contractors working in in my space there.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um but along with that, I I really had to learn to be a liaison with a lot of uh civilian organizations within the government as well.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that helped to kind of um to dampen that.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I had to, I guess I had the best of both worlds.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: I could I can go into this room and and and uh talk to executives, but I can go back here and talk to the to the guys, to the teams who who's back here, uh, cadre who's doing you know instructional stuff.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had that that good mix there.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh on top of that, you know, you you you add on the coaching community, which is a mixed bag of a lot of different people.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I I knew that I really wanted to do that was I was passionate about was um reaching out to veterans or or talking to veterans and and helping them with that transitional process as well.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just talking through, okay, you know, the civilian world sees things a little bit different than than than this.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you know, sergeant, whatever you are, you are you know Will Thornton and you come to get a job.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as we walk people through that process, and I I'm coaching with a a great organization, um, the Veterans Coaching Project.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, veterans at all different levels uh of you know, just transitioned out of the military or have been transitioned up for uh quite a few years, but they are all going through that transition process.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: But what I find is going back and and having uh and talking to them about what their real values are, not the values that they had.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: It could be some of the same values that they had when they were in the military, but what values, I mean, yeah, how have their value systems changed or how do they foresee it changing?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then also going back and looking at, okay, what value am I bringing into this next uh chapter of my life?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, a lot of the people start off with, um, you know, I am very technically aligned and I know my skills and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, you you ask the question is, you know, if I lined up five resumes and all the resumes have the same training on it, what makes you different?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to make this organization better?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it it it causes them to pause and think a little bit and start to bring out a little bit more that's just within them, their character, their you know, their approach to life, what they find important.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I said, you know, put that in there, put that into that that job interview of yours, um, because that's what organizations are looking for right now.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel like it's changed, or do you feel like it's the same, and do you try to instill that in others?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I you know, yeah, my uh 62-year-old me does not have the same definition of success as I did when uh, you know, I was 25 or 30.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, back then when you're in the military, uh, you know, how fast do I do I make rank?
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, am I going to get an award for this?
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, is the team succeeding?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now it's kind of shifted, you know, you know, a little bit towards, okay, yeah, those things are are still important a little bit, but not as important.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it is, okay, are we all, you know, we are all in this together, how we are all all functioning in this particular space, how we all get along, how we're all moving towards a common goal.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end of the day, is if I wake up and I do nothing at all that day, or if I wake up and I do three or five tasks, um, am I able to rest at night knowing that I I've done my best and and that uh I'm a better person for it, and and I and there's some growth in it.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: So you've earned a little time off there, mate.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: Just a little bit.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Your wife's right.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta take some of those easy days when you can get them.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: But it's but isn't that a part and parcel of the discipline that's instilled from military service?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like anything, right?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: You sort of you have a a regimen of things that you feel like, well, every day is a long list of things I need to achieve.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta get going.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: Taking a step back and going, hold on a minute.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, today actually I don't have to do much.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's a that's a good one.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I wake up with you know in the morning now and I'm like, are we gonna go for a walk?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm checking my clock.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, I I'd like to be out the door by like 7 30 or so.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, oh, let me do one more thing before I get out the door.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was like, okay, calm down, relax.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: But but it's good.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's good, it's good to have that, you know, that that you know, I don't want to say opposite, but that the other side of a of a personality there that's just like, you know what, this is not that we're not we're not going on a race, we're not trying to win a marathon.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: We are getting some exercise and we're you know, we're we're enjoying the out the outdoors.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I think one of the biggest takeaways from our conversation for me, at least, is the preparation isn't about having all of the answers.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's about having the humility to recognize what we don't know and the discipline to keep learning and the adaptability to respond when things don't go according to plan.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been great spending this time with you, mate.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a place you'd like people to go to either connect, follow, or explore and learn more?
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do I do have a uh website, uh theunlimitedwell.com.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it it should be up and running.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: My son's working on it for me, but uh that's a good place.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I also have a LinkedIn page as well, and that's where I spend most of my time on on LinkedIn and uh networking with people, um, just finding out about other folks that that's out there who like-minded, who who thinks and who wants to actually uh continue to grow.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh it's it's been a quite a journey, and I I I I enjoyed the journey, not so much focused on the the destination right now, but really focused on the journey.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love uh you know the the talent and the the knowledge of people that are out there.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was and you know it was it was happenstance that I ran into you at the gym.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know what that that chance and being there um uh brought us to this point right here and stuff.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm I'm super grateful for you inviting me on to the uh to your to your show here, but having us uh the opportunity to sit down and chat.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, me too.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm super grateful that you said hi that day.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was a great it was a great chance encounter.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for joining me for today.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me on board, and I look forward to seeing you, Terry.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll see you at the gym again.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: All right, thanks everyone for listening and watching to this episode.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: Depending on what platform we're on, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: We truly appreciate your support.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: For now, that's the end of today's episode.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: I look forward to catching up with all of you in the next one.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: Cheers.