Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with John Elbing and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with John Elbing and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:16
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
0:20
Connections, the show where meaningful connections
0:22
lead to real opportunities. I'm your host, Michael
0:26
Foreman. When people think about networking,
0:29
they often focus on what they should say, how
0:33
to introduce themselves, or how to follow up.
0:36
But there's something deeper happening in every
0:38
conversation. People are forming a story about
0:42
you. My guest today explores the idea of story
0:47
building, which goes beyond simple storytelling.
0:50
It's about understanding how people experience
0:53
your message, how they interpret what you represent,
0:57
and how they decide whether they want to be a
1:00
part of that story. We're going to talk about
1:03
three mental steps people go through when encountering
1:07
a brand, why some professionals are instantly
1:10
memorable while others fade from memory. and
1:14
how the narrative you create can strengthen the
1:17
trust that people feel and when they meet you.
1:20
If you want to understand how perception changes
1:24
shapes relationships and how a clear story can
1:28
open the door to opportunity, you're in the right
1:31
place. Listen. Welcome to the podcast. I welcome
1:35
all my listeners to John. John, you are an expert
1:40
in story building, storytelling. I can't wait
1:44
to hear what you have to say. But besides saying
1:47
hello, could you give us a cliff notes of how
1:50
you got where you are today? So I will start
1:54
by saying hello. So hi, Michael. Sure, I can
1:59
do that. So I've done, I think I've changed jobs
2:02
15 times in the last 30 years. And then I've
2:04
been independent for the last 10. I started out
2:07
as a software engineer. I was a developer. I
2:10
was in tech. And then you shift into project
2:12
management and things like that. I went back
2:15
and did an MBA in finance. And I thought, ooh,
2:17
finance, never again. But it's great as background
2:21
knowledge. I quit. I did the first e -banking
2:25
websites back at the turn of the century. Maybe
2:27
if you can see me, I have a white beard. And
2:30
I quit all that to do some startups that didn't
2:32
work. Sorry, I'm not a millionaire. And then
2:35
went to work in marketing agencies. And then
2:39
I went into coaching startups. Somehow with the
2:42
background of technology, finance, marketing,
2:45
and entrepreneurial experience, I could at least
2:47
help them figure out what not to do, even if
2:50
I couldn't tell them what to do. I got into a
2:53
lot of different methodologies, design thinking,
2:55
and a lot of canvases with a lot of post -its
2:57
and things like that. And then I finally got
2:59
into storytelling, where at the beginning, the
3:02
idea is what is the best story you can use for
3:04
marketing and how it can be engaging. But I found
3:08
there was more to it than that, that it forces
3:11
you to ask the right questions. Who am I talking
3:14
to? What's important? What's less important?
3:17
And who is my customer? And then working through
3:21
that, I came up with my method, which I call...
3:23
story building, where instead of it's just telling
3:26
the story, it's building the real story you want
3:29
to tell. And that came out as a book last year.
3:33
And there you are. And I'm in Geneva, Switzerland.
3:37
It was outstanding. Outstanding. We have a lot
3:41
in common, because what I teach is networking.
3:45
And I'm an executive coach. And I teach the people,
3:49
the masses. on how to properly network, and a
3:53
good chunk of that is storytelling. So there's
3:57
a lot in common. All right, so let's just jump
3:59
into these questions. You talk about story building
4:02
instead of storytelling. What's the difference
4:06
and why does that distinction matter when building
4:09
a professional relationship? So often, storytelling
4:14
is this buzzword. So you see storytelling everywhere.
4:17
Go on YouTube and type storytelling. You'll have
4:19
all the tips and tricks. And you start with a
4:21
hook and you should dance on your left foot and
4:24
you should do all these things. But basically,
4:26
it's adding a nice coat of paint to your story.
4:28
But if you're telling the wrong story, that doesn't
4:31
help. So what I try to do is help them build
4:34
the right story. And then once you have that
4:36
structure, you can do a pitch, you can do a website,
4:40
you can do whatever it is, campaigns and things.
4:42
So I'm really at that foundational level to say,
4:45
what is the story that is engaging for my audience?
4:49
So often it's the customer, but I've done it
4:51
with NGOs and nonprofits. And if you want to
4:54
convince your spouse to go to the beach instead
4:56
of the mountains, it might be the same kind of
4:58
structure. And so I think the main thing is you
5:02
flip the script and you tell your customer's
5:05
story. And it's how you fit in their story instead
5:09
of the other way around. A lot of companies say,
5:11
we're the best and pound their chest. And then
5:14
the customer says, who is that? Is that for me
5:16
or not or what? And they're lost. But if you
5:19
tell their story and they feel engaged, that's
5:21
me and they understand it, then they'll be more
5:24
engaged. So then, and then I came up with this
5:26
method and theory. As you said, there are the
5:28
three steps and we can get into that. Good. When
5:33
someone encounters a brand or a person for the
5:37
first time, what are the three mental steps that
5:41
they go through before deciding whether they
5:44
should trust them or not? So let's keep it with
5:50
a brand. So you encounter a brand, and this can
5:51
be a billboard, a website, a storefront, whatever
5:55
it is. And I found that we go through three steps.
6:00
And the three steps, I call them recognition,
6:02
perception, and projection. And the idea is you
6:05
need to recognize yourself in the brand. If I
6:08
go on a website, I've seen so many websites where
6:11
we do this great thing and I'm not sure, is this
6:13
for big companies, small companies? I'm an independent
6:15
consultant. Is it for me? And I don't feel that.
6:18
And if I don't feel it's for me, I'll skip. As
6:21
an independent consultant, I'm looking for a
6:23
to -do list and it says we're the best to -do
6:26
list for big teams and I'm not a big team and
6:29
they've lost me. But if it's, we're the best
6:32
thing for independent consultants, I'm not sure
6:34
what they offer yet, but I'm already engaged
6:36
because I think, ooh, they work with people like
6:38
me. They like people like me kind of thing. And
6:41
often that's really quick. You walk down the
6:43
street and want to have a coffee. You'll pass
6:45
three cafes without even slowing down. But the
6:48
fourth one is the one because somehow it fits.
6:51
And I find that a lot of companies skip that
6:54
part. They talk about them, what they do, the
6:56
benefits, their features. But if you can start
6:59
by saying, as an independent consultant, you're
7:02
trying to organize your life and your work, and
7:04
you're frustrated because of this, and here's
7:07
how we can help, I'll be more interested. And
7:12
this is a way of attracting the right client,
7:15
because it's the right people that will be engaged.
7:18
If you say, As a young father, you're worried
7:21
about what you feed your baby. If you're not
7:23
a young father, you're not going to be engaged.
7:25
But if you are a young father, you say, I wasn't
7:27
until now, but I am now. Tell me more. So once
7:31
you feel that's for you, then you need to understand
7:33
what's it about. And that's what I call perception.
7:36
And usually companies are pretty good at talking
7:38
about what they do. But there are a few things
7:40
around. They want to put you in a category. They
7:43
want to compare you to things. They want to know
7:45
how you're different. Instead of saying, these
7:48
are my features, it's of all the people that
7:50
do something similar, this is how we do it differently.
7:53
And that makes a difference. But overall, I think
7:55
that's what normally companies concentrate on.
7:59
And once I'm convinced, I've found the perfect
8:01
to -do that has AI this and all that, and I'm
8:04
all excited. And then I think, oh yeah, but it's
8:07
going to be complicated. And often companies
8:10
drop off by saying, hey, isn't this great? And
8:13
then you'll say, oh, okay. I have to install
8:16
it and learn it and try it and use my old system.
8:19
And all these obstacles say, okay, I'll absolutely
8:22
do this, but I'll come back next week and then
8:26
I don't. And so if you can walk them through
8:28
what it's going to be like, when you go through
8:31
somehow the customer journey with all the little
8:33
doubts they could have and show them the problems
8:36
it solves and almost get them to close their
8:38
eyes and say, imagine this positive future. And
8:42
you're bringing people along and solving all
8:45
these doubts. So they're a few steps farther
8:48
in the engagement and ready and will hopefully
8:51
click that button to take an appointment or something
8:54
like that. So there you go. Yeah, no, that really
8:58
goes along the same lines as having a servant's
9:02
heart. Whenever you network with a company, with
9:05
a person, a networking event, you go with what's
9:08
called a servant's heart. You're looking to...
9:11
help whomever you can help first you forget all
9:15
about yourself just you put yourself into their
9:19
story and you try to figure out what you can
9:23
do to help them and you can because everybody
9:26
is a problem solver quote unquote right but The
9:30
whole thing is you don't want to just solve their
9:32
problem. You want to meet them somewhere in the
9:34
future and walk them along and you're engaging
9:38
with them and they'll realize that, hey, you
9:41
know what? This guy knows what he's talking about
9:43
and I need his services. And I find that going
9:48
through this method with companies, that actually
9:50
creates this mind shift. They're focused on their
9:53
product, on their thing, on their customer service
9:55
and all these things. And suddenly they step
9:57
back and see themselves from the outside. And
10:00
suddenly their mission isn't making the best
10:03
widget. Their mission becomes helping their ideal
10:06
client the most. And I can almost hear the click
10:09
in their mind where suddenly it all makes sense
10:12
and it aligns the story and aligns all the different
10:15
people that you can be in contact with. And that
10:18
is quite a shift. Yeah, exactly. It is quite
10:21
a shift. And you said it, the mindset shift.
10:24
And that's what you're helping them do because
10:28
you've already made the shift because you're
10:30
helping them. But you have to get them the mindset
10:33
shift so that they understand that you're helping
10:35
them. So it's a whole big thing. Okay. How does
10:40
the story someone tells about themselves influence
10:44
the kind of relationships and opportunities that
10:48
they attract? So when you describe your ideal
10:53
client and you can tell, you talk about there's
10:56
identity, you're about their aspiration, about
10:59
their challenges, somehow the customer will feel
11:04
they've really invested in people like me. And
11:10
you start out that engagement with a level of
11:12
trust. If I say I do the best CRM in the world,
11:16
I think, okay, everyone else. Our mission is
11:19
to help independent consultants in Geneva with
11:22
white beards and a cat. I think, okay, they,
11:25
damn, okay, they really concentrate on me. If
11:29
I was an accountant and I wanted to be one more
11:31
accountant, I would pick and I would say, I'm
11:34
the accountant for landscapers or whatever. Because
11:39
the landscapers will feel, okay, accounting,
11:41
they know. They understand me. They know my issues.
11:44
They know my industry. They can really help me.
11:47
And they're going to choose me. Of course, you're
11:48
going to lose the people that aren't. So maybe
11:50
landscapers might be a little bit too narrow.
11:52
But I find that companies don't niche down enough.
11:55
They try to satisfy everyone. And then most people
11:58
don't feel concerned. And by being clear to who
12:02
you help, that creates that connection with that
12:06
person or that kind of company. Yeah, the first
12:10
thing that you have to do is figure out who your
12:13
ideal customer is, right? And you can actually
12:16
work from there because a lot of people, whether
12:19
it's LinkedIn or something else, they're too
12:21
broad. They put the message out and they say,
12:24
yep, I'm an accountant. I can help anybody. And
12:27
that answers no questions. And to me, that's
12:31
why you're like everybody else. And I just don't
12:33
want to talk to you. But if they say, what's
12:37
that? No, I just worked with a leadership coach.
12:40
And she said, there are two aspects to my work.
12:44
There's how to be high performing, motivating
12:46
teams, being a leader and all that. And part
12:49
of it is being a CEO, you're lonely. You come
12:52
in, you have to smile, you make all the decisions,
12:54
you're the thing. That's a difficult place to
12:56
be. And she felt if she advertised the first
13:00
part, she's going to get the alpha male kind
13:02
of thing performance. And if she advertises the
13:05
second part, she's going to get people that are
13:07
open to vulnerability. And they're probably going
13:10
to benefit from coaching a lot more. So by choosing
13:13
how you describe your customer, you're going
13:16
to get the right people that can benefit the
13:18
most to what you offer and somehow avoid the
13:21
real alpha male might think, oh, what is that?
13:23
vulnerability thing. That's not for me. They
13:26
probably wouldn't have benefited from the service
13:28
as much. So you can really, somehow, it's not
13:31
just choosing good customers. It's the ones that
13:33
will benefit the most that will get the, and
13:35
it's a win -win situation. Usually when I have
13:39
my leadership clients, I usually tell them just
13:43
in the beginning about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs,
13:47
who was a big guy with Apple, but he didn't know
13:51
everything. He knew exactly where his lane was.
13:55
And every area that he was uncomfortable with
13:58
or didn't have a great job knowledge, he hired
14:02
somebody to fill that gap. So he didn't surround
14:07
himself with yes -men. He didn't surround himself
14:10
with like -minded people. He surrounded himself
14:13
with where he fell. So that's what he created,
14:19
such an impressive board because everybody knew
14:23
what they were doing. And that's the way that
14:24
I start most of my clients in the leadership
14:27
roles from the CEO on down to the CFO, COO. I
14:32
even have a CMO, which I don't know why, but
14:34
I have. But it all falls along with the same
14:37
thing. Again, it's up to not only the coach,
14:41
but the client themselves. And they see. how
14:45
much good you can actually do. It's really very
14:48
important. Okay. Why do some professionals struggle
14:54
to be remembered even after great conversations?
15:00
Interesting. It all depends what you call it.
15:02
If it was really a great conversation, they probably
15:04
wouldn't be remembered. So the question might
15:06
be, why aren't those conversations as great as
15:09
they could be? One answer is just that they fall
15:12
back in the same thing, where they're there to
15:14
convince, they're there to show off, and all
15:17
these things, where the best conversations are
15:19
when you listen the most. Yeah, I think that
15:24
conversation, the goal, that first goal is for
15:29
the person to feel seen and understood more than...
15:35
understanding all your offer and getting all
15:38
the features and the benefits and all that kind
15:40
of thing. If you come out where they feel this
15:43
person can probably help me, then you'll get
15:46
a second meeting where you can get into how you
15:48
do that. But if you jump in saying this is that
15:52
if you go too quickly or they feel that you're
15:54
more concentrated on yourself, I get so many
15:57
on LinkedIn. Probably every other day I get a
16:00
thing about saying, so we do a software development
16:02
on this and CCO and just send me your needs.
16:05
Really? Some of them pretend and they say, oh,
16:08
I went on your website and have some good suggestions
16:11
for you. And no, you didn't. So, yeah, I guess
16:14
authenticity somehow in there. You have to come
16:16
to that word at some point just because. People
16:19
can tell if you're faking it. I tell my clients,
16:22
in order for you to stand out amongst all the
16:27
other interviews that you have with prospective
16:31
clients or clients, you have to make yourself
16:34
different in some way, right? You have to do
16:38
something that makes you stand out. And I have
16:43
one client that he wears a multicolored blazer
16:47
with a weird bow tie to every meeting. And he
16:51
goes, look, he may not remember why he called
16:55
me in, but he'll remember what I wore. I said,
16:58
okay, that's a start. That's a start. But you
17:01
have to actually engage with him, prove to him
17:04
that you are different than everybody else. And
17:08
because for me, go ahead. No, go ahead. So hopefully
17:12
you're different in a different way than your
17:15
jacket. That's a little bit of a gimmick. But
17:18
I remember I worked for a bank once where there
17:20
are two buildings a couple blocks from each other.
17:23
And this was 25 years ago. And I got one of those
17:27
first mini scooters before it was a thing. And
17:30
I was in my suit and tie and all that. And I
17:33
would go between these buildings on this scooter.
17:35
And I would go see the CEO of the bank. And I
17:37
would fold my scooter and leave it in front of
17:39
his office. I got known. I stood out because,
17:45
oh, the scooter guy kind of thing. And then,
17:48
of course, I had to succeed in my project and
17:50
all that. But I remember that I was known outside
17:53
the circle a little bit because of that. Yeah,
17:57
but you did something different. You didn't intentionally
18:00
do something different. You just figured, all
18:03
right, that's the fastest way that I can get
18:05
from point A to point B without taking a car.
18:09
But you're remembered because it was something
18:11
different. And that's what I tell everybody.
18:14
You have to figure out, listen, authenticity,
18:18
authentic self, that's a buzzword that is thrown
18:21
around and it loses its meaning. But you have
18:24
to figure out what that one thing is that makes
18:28
you different. To the high schoolers and the
18:31
college people that are just going out for a
18:33
job, I tell them the same thing. You have to
18:37
do something before you see that employer that
18:40
is different, that makes you stand out. And I've
18:45
gotten a lot of pretty good results. Go ahead.
18:49
I'm sure that there's probably a second level
18:50
to this in the sense that when you talk about
18:55
what you do, how you're different is important.
18:58
If I say I have this great CRM. kind of thing,
19:04
they say, okay, there's a million of them out
19:06
there. So most of what you say is just the same.
19:10
So instead of talking about all that, it's normally
19:13
a CRM works like this, but we do, this is why
19:17
we're different. And by standing out, they'll
19:20
say, oh, so if you want to do it the old way,
19:22
that's fine. But if you want to do it the better
19:24
way, you can work with us. And that's also a
19:26
way of being remembered because they remember
19:29
that little difference instead of trying to remember
19:31
your offer in general. That's correct. When I
19:36
tell my clients what they should do, I don't
19:39
have them concentrate on what they do. I have
19:43
them concentrate on what their client feels.
19:47
So if you can see what their pain point is and
19:54
what they feel about it and how you can combat
19:57
that, that will make you stand out. And that
20:01
will give you that little bit of an edge that
20:04
they can use. That's one thing that I do. And
20:07
I think that comes back to networking. I think
20:10
you know a little bit about networking. If I
20:12
go into a networking thing and I say, I do this,
20:15
say I mow lawns, people say, oh, I'll just go
20:17
get a drink and walk away. But if you talk about
20:21
homeowners have this yard and they want to have
20:24
this great place and they have this all plans,
20:26
but then they come home from work and it's tired
20:28
and they never get around and their yard's a
20:30
mess and they're ashamed in front of their neighbor.
20:32
I take over and make their lawn, their yard so
20:34
great that they're proud. They have the best
20:36
barbecues in the world. And really I can make
20:38
their life better. I'm already more in, I mow
20:41
lawns. But by telling how you affect the people
20:44
you help, that makes your whole thing. I don't
20:48
mow lawns. I bring joy to people, this audience.
20:53
That's exactly right. And when somebody asks
20:56
me what I do for a living, I don't come out and
20:59
say I'm a professional speaker, I'm an executive
21:02
business coach, because that's just in the background.
21:05
But what I do say is, you know what, have you
21:08
ever gone to a meeting or a networking event,
21:11
made great contacts, but nothing ever happened
21:14
from it? They go, yeah, that happens all the
21:18
time. That's good. So that's when you can come
21:20
see me because I can change that. And so without
21:23
saying what I do for a living, that's what I
21:26
do. And it's a very, very big difference. So
21:30
I'll write that down. Good. It's good to know.
21:34
What role does curiosity play in helping someone
21:38
feel like they're a part of the story you're
21:41
building? From the point of the company. Now,
21:46
working with the companies and a lot of startups
21:48
also that are trying to discover or figure out
21:53
what they're doing, I have this canvas about
21:57
their customer asking a certain number of questions.
22:00
And you step through and you challenge that.
22:03
Somehow I find that a company says they offer
22:05
a solution, so the problem must be exactly the
22:09
match to the solution. But in the customer's
22:12
mind, it's not always the case. they're thinking
22:15
about something else. I worked for this NGO in
22:17
water purification. And normally in third world
22:21
and developing countries, you'll ship chlorine
22:25
powder form, put it in the water to make it safe
22:28
to drink. And their solution is to have a local
22:31
system where with water and salt, you create
22:33
the chlorine locally instead of having it shipped.
22:36
But more overall, it's the same thing. And I
22:39
said, what's the problem you solve? And they
22:40
said, people get sick. And we dug through. And
22:44
actually, the problem they solve is trucks get
22:47
stuck in the mud. And if that truck doesn't arrive,
22:51
the water will turn bad. So by creating it locally,
22:55
you solve the logistic problems. And the people
22:57
in the field, their worry is, damn, where's the
23:00
truck? Why isn't the truck arriving? Of course,
23:03
the end result is people don't get sick. But
23:06
what they're thinking about is different. And
23:09
often if you go through that and you try to really
23:11
understand what really is the customer trying
23:13
to do, do they want to solve a problem or do
23:15
they want to be the hero or do they want security
23:18
or what is the emotion behind that? And you can
23:22
connect to that. That's much more powerful in
23:26
the connection than just the sort of the theoretical
23:29
problem that you're solving. My grass is too
23:32
long. No, it's not that. It's I'm ashamed of
23:35
my yard. And if you can express that in a way
23:38
that resonates, that's more powerful. Let's change
23:45
this a little bit to networking. In networking
23:47
conversations, how can someone invite others
23:51
into their story without sounding like you're
23:54
performing or pitching? First of all, I'm probably
23:58
not as good a network as you. I go into a networking
24:00
event and I really find there's this mindset.
24:03
Sometimes I'll grab onto someone I know and not
24:05
let go because, and other times I say, look,
24:08
I'm there, I'm open. I want to meet people and
24:10
go out and stuff. And then it becomes, it's more
24:13
about asking questions and understanding about
24:15
them. People love to talk about themselves. And
24:19
so if you can get, then they'll come back and
24:22
say, what do you do? And then you can, you have
24:25
context. to talk about yourself and say, yeah,
24:28
you talked about this. I help people like this
24:30
or something where there's some context instead
24:33
of saying, I did this, I did that, and my...
24:37
That's probably what I did when I started this
24:39
podcast by saying I was a software engineer and
24:41
I did this and that and the other until now I'm
24:43
doing storytelling. Instead of, it's so funny,
24:46
I say all this and why didn't I start this by
24:49
saying, so what I do is companies have trouble
24:52
with their story. They have trouble in engagement.
24:54
They're too centered on themselves. And what
24:57
I help them is see themselves from the outside
24:59
and tell their customer story. So that creates
25:01
much more engagement and trust and blah, blah,
25:03
blah. But no, I said. I'm a consultant in storytelling.
25:08
Go right into the trap. But that's good. But
25:10
everything you do, everything we do, we learn.
25:13
When people are first going out and they're first
25:15
learning to network, they go out and they're
25:19
afraid to go out. But then once I convince them
25:22
that networking is the key, networking is the
25:25
lifeblood of business, they go out and they come
25:28
back after the first one. They say, oh, I was
25:31
horrible. I said, good. because you'll learn
25:35
from that first. You'll learn about the mistakes.
25:37
You'll learn about the things you said. You'll
25:39
learn about the things you didn't say. So the
25:42
second time you go, you'll learn from that. Listen,
25:45
the first time you went out, you sucked. It was
25:47
horrible, right? The second time, you're a little
25:50
bit better. The third time, you're a little bit
25:52
better. The fourth time, and by the fifth time,
25:54
you actually enjoy going to the networking events
25:58
because you're talking the talk. And so that's
26:02
exactly what it does. All right. How does consistency
26:07
in messaging strengthen the trust people feel
26:10
when encounter your brand multiple times? So
26:15
that's a big thing I found is that I had one
26:17
of this gig where I had a company and there was
26:20
like eight or 10 people. And I said, okay, before
26:23
we start, take a piece of paper and write down
26:25
what the company does. And then we looked at
26:28
the stories and we had 10 different stories.
26:31
And when I work with them and they build a story
26:33
together, they have this shared story. And suddenly
26:38
the story, if the salesperson, the website, the
26:41
campaign, the pitch, they all make sense because
26:44
they're based on this, it aligns the team. It's
26:49
based on this shared story. And that makes it
26:51
really important. When often you click on a Google
26:54
ad because they have this one angle and then
26:58
you land on the homepage. And that angle has
27:01
disappeared. And you said, they brought me in
27:04
because they were going to solve this specific
27:05
part of the problem. And that was for me. And
27:09
then it's up to me to go and search or something
27:10
like that. And so this idea that you have consistency
27:14
in the story, but consistency within a kind of
27:18
a funnel of story when you contact a customer
27:21
and you follow up and you keep throughing. If
27:23
somehow that story weaves left and right, they'll
27:26
get lost and you lose trust. consistency is also
27:29
a core element of trust. It's not just a script.
27:34
That's who they are. It's a networking. It's
27:38
know you, like you, trust you. They'll do business
27:41
with you. And you know that everybody knows you
27:44
because your name is out there, your face is
27:46
out there. But like you, that now is the field
27:49
down just a little bit because not everybody's
27:52
going to like you. But trust you. That's the
27:55
hinge because nobody will do business with you
27:59
unless they trust you. So that's what you're
28:03
working on is that trust factor. And when we
28:07
talk about what a company does, I ask everybody,
28:10
every one of my clients, what's your 30 -second
28:13
elevator pitch? And they're all like, oh, yeah,
28:16
this. I said, no, let's get it down to exactly
28:18
what you should do. Okay. We get it down hours
28:22
and hours later. All right, good. It's perfect.
28:25
Now make it down to 10 seconds. And they flip
28:29
out. They go, I can't do that. It took me so
28:31
long to get it down in 30 seconds and I have
28:33
to do it in 10 seconds. Okay. So we work on it.
28:36
We work on it until it's 10 seconds. I said,
28:38
okay, you're happy with that? He goes, yeah,
28:40
I'm happy with that. Good. Now throw it out.
28:43
Throw it out because now you know exactly what
28:46
to focus in on, exactly what you have to say.
28:49
And that's where the consistency is built. And
28:54
then you can riff, you can, everything will come
28:56
back to that once you have that core story. Absolutely.
29:00
Absolutely. I'm sure I'm telling you all my consulting
29:02
networking tricks, but that's all right. I published
29:08
my book with all, you don't need me. You can
29:10
just use my book and everything's in. Yeah. I
29:12
have two books also. I can just research them.
29:16
But some people need that extra help. They always
29:19
do. They always do. As soon as I finished my
29:22
networking book, a month later, I could have
29:26
doubled the size because I'm always learning
29:29
something else. So I probably should do a second
29:33
book on networking. Okay. What mistakes do professionals
29:38
make when trying to tell the story that actually
29:42
weaken their credibility? I think we've touched
29:46
on a number of those in the sense that, first
29:49
of all, it's centered on them. And the customer
29:53
feels they're not really concerned with me. They're
29:57
trying to sell their stuff. It can be inconsistency.
30:00
The website isn't the same as the salesperson.
30:03
It can be this feeling of fakeness. They've done
30:10
these studies where there's this gut reaction
30:12
against AI. And it's not really about things
30:16
that are really problematic. Suddenly there's
30:19
this weird feeling that there's no human behind
30:23
it. This guy did this. He put on some other social
30:27
media, he put a Monet painting saying, what do
30:31
you think of my AI -generated Monet painting?
30:34
And he got thousands and thousands of people
30:36
hating it, how it was obvious, it was crazy,
30:39
it was disgusting, there was this and that. And
30:41
then he said, well, actually, it was a real one.
30:43
And where there's this, and more and more, we're
30:46
trying to optimize. We're trying to automate.
30:48
We're trying to do all these things. And more
30:51
and more, by being human, having a human voice
30:54
really is noticeable today somehow. And that's
30:58
really, I don't know if it's surprising, but.
31:01
It's the face -to -face. Networking is so important.
31:04
Because, listen, it's great that we're talking
31:07
through Zoom. You're in Switzerland. I'm in Georgia
31:10
in the States. Right. So we can connect and we
31:13
can network like this. But nothing is going to
31:16
remove the networking in person, the networking
31:20
events in person, because you need to pick up
31:23
the vibe of the person or the vibe of the room.
31:27
Because I've walked into networking events after
31:30
about. 15 minutes, I said, nope, this whole thing
31:33
is not right for me. And I've walked out, right?
31:37
And other times I've walked in, I said, I'm home.
31:41
I'm home. This is perfect. And you had to drag
31:45
me out of there kicking and screaming. Okay,
31:47
so let's bring this podcast full circle. If a
31:51
listener wanted to reshape how people perceive
31:54
them within the next 90 days, what storytelling
31:59
or story building habit, would you recommend
32:02
they start immediately? The first thing is this
32:06
idea of flipping the script. Look at yourself
32:08
from the outside. My company's name is Standpoint.
32:12
I find it so important that you take the other
32:15
person's standpoint, in this case, your customer,
32:18
tell their story, and you can get that mindset
32:23
shift a little bit. One thing is to go on your
32:26
website and say, okay, I'm my ideal customer.
32:30
How does this make me feel? Do I recognize myself?
32:34
Do I feel that these people are working for me?
32:37
Do I have that first level of recognition and
32:40
trust at the beginning? Or do you jump in and
32:43
talk about your product and your service and
32:45
it's up to me to figure out if it's for me? And
32:47
I think that that first step where when I'm listening
32:52
to your offer or reading your offer, but I feel
32:56
that you work with people like me. I'm a little
33:00
bit more open to listening instead of saying,
33:03
okay, what are they trying to sell me? It's like,
33:05
okay, how can they help me? And that creates
33:07
that shift. John, this was fabulous, a fabulous
33:13
podcast. You did very well. I loved listening
33:16
to everything you had to say. But if somebody
33:19
wanted to contact you, either to help them with
33:22
their story or just to say hi, how would they
33:25
get hold of you? I have the core is my website,
33:29
which is standpoint .ch. I'm in Switzerland and
33:32
the .ch is for Switzerland, Switzerland, but,
33:35
and so you'll, you can find my book. You can,
33:38
and then, so there are two things on the website.
33:39
If you go to my contact form and say, Hey, I'm
33:42
from Michael's podcast. Let's set up a half an
33:45
hour and we talk about your brand. Great. And
33:48
also I created, I automated one of my little
33:50
processes, which is to create a tagline. So you
33:54
can go in and it'll ask you questions about your
33:57
customer, about your product, and then use six
33:59
different formats and propose and you pick ones
34:01
and there's variants. And it really helps you
34:04
create a thing. And it gives a little bit of
34:07
a little teaser of the kind of questions you
34:12
need to ask. And then you come out with a tagline.
34:15
And then anyways, you can always just pick a
34:18
half an hour of my time and I'd be happy to talk
34:21
to you from the other side of the world. That's
34:25
great. That's great. This conversation reminds
34:28
us that networking isn't just about exchanging
34:31
information. It's about the story people carry
34:35
with them after the conversation ends. When your
34:39
message is clear, consistent, and authentic,
34:42
people understand what you stand for and how
34:45
you can help them. That clarity makes you easier
34:48
to remember, easier to trust, and easier to refer.
34:53
Take one step this week. Think about the story
34:56
someone would tell you about after meeting you.
34:59
Is it clear? Is it consistent? Small adjustments
35:03
in how you communicate can completely change
35:06
how people perceive you. If you found value in
35:10
today's episode, make sure you like, follow,
35:12
and subscribe to Networking Unleashed, Building
35:15
Profitable Connections so you continue getting
35:17
the best insights on networking and communication.
35:20
And share this episode with someone who wants
35:23
to strengthen how you present themselves in conversations.
35:27
If you'd help improving your communication and
35:29
building connections through opportunities, visit
35:32
michelaforman .com to learn how I work with professionals,
35:36
teams, and organizations. So until next time,
35:39
shape your story, strengthen your connections,
35:42
and build relationships that truly matter. John,
35:46
I want to thank you again for coming on my podcast.
35:48
You were wonderful. Thank you, Michael. That
35:51
was a lot of fun. Happy to have been here. My
35:55
pleasure. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
36:03
Let's hear from our sponsors. David Neal, co
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for you. You can contact Henry at 561 -427 -4888.
36:54
A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such...
36:57
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
37:01
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
37:04
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
37:07
in my digital courses, being coached or having
37:10
me come and talk to your company, just go to
37:13
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
37:17
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
37:20
being present. So take what you've learned today,
37:23
get out there and make some meaningful connections.
37:27
If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
37:29
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37:33
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37:35
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37:38
You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube,
37:43
or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.