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Transcript

Sustainability is not enough · Two in Twenty

• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Over the next 20 or so minutes, we will delve into a range of topics, including why setting up a corporate sustainability agenda is just the first step, albeit a crucial one, how good partnerships can play an important role, and why mentoring should be part of the equation.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So for any of our listeners who are unfamiliar with the unreasonable group and the unreasonable collective Pradeba, could you please tell us a little bit about the company and its purpose?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: We are an impact venture network of growth stage companies, investors, and corporate partners.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: The focus for us has always been to connect companies that have transformative impact potential with the capital network and experience of world's leading businesses and investors.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the title of this episode was inspired in part by the Unreasonable Manifesto, which can be found on your website.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So bear with me for a moment.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to read this passage.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sustainability isn't enough.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Business needs to drastically change its relationship with the natural world.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Many companies have a sustainability agenda, but sustainability is merely about harm reduction.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: A crucial first step, but not sufficient in reversing the environmental circumstances we now find ourselves in.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a fantastic phrase.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: But given that there is a lack of agreement generally in this space when it comes to definitions, beyond the concept of harm reduction, Priseba, what does the word sustainability mean to you?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: To me, sustainability refers to the ability to meet the needs of the present generation without compromising the ability of the future generation to meet their own needs.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Ultimately, sustainability is about taking a holistic approach that seeks to address interconnected challenges as we face as a global society, fostering a future that is environmentally regenerative, socially just, and economically prosperous for us all.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does sustainability look like in a financial services firm, Pratiba?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: To me, that entails incorporating environmental, social, and governance considerations into both operations, investment decisions, and business practices.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: One is we could be looking at responsible investments, or, you know, for financial firms to be really incorporating sustainable investment products like green bonds or venture capital funds that are looking at tackling some of these global challenges or screened portfolios that have, you know, ESG factors at the foundation of it all.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: It also looks at taking risk management practices and incorporating environment and social challenges that we are facing in the market.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: On the migrations front, you know, I look at really understanding how we are thinking as financial services firm owners, how they're looking at social and community engagement, how are they engaging with communities and stakeholders to understand the needs and concerns and support initiatives that address social issues, promote financial literacy, and contribute to community development.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I also think about reporting and measurement as the last point where you could be disclosing relevant ESG metrics or targets of financing capital.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: We are at today facing a massive delta when it comes to capital flows into some of the technologies that are really pertinent for the next two decades to be that bridge of really being that pathway to channeling capital flows.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like financial services firms play a pivotal role in that aspect.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've really articulated extremely well.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think for a lot of businesses in our industry, that's an aspirational perspective.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's not done yet, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it is that connection of showing how you behave matters as well as what you do.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think our industry is very good at talking about how it can integrate ESG into its investment process, the data that's used there, why we do that, why we behave the way we do as a business, why we are interested in the social causes and the committees and the commitment to community that we should have is a challenge.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of connection of how do I integrate ESG at a business level, at a proposition level, with how do I integrate it at a corporate level?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do I engage my staff?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do I engage the communities that we operate in?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do we engage our employees, our customers, all of that together?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think sustainability for me is when you get the connection of those things.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's the essential very fabric.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: It 100% is.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It totally is in our industry.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It can be hard for B2B businesses who work in our industry to talk about purpose.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: We struggle with it a little bit as a business.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: We don't struggle with talking about being a purposeful business.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're really good at that and we've kind of got that nailed.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And our process of going through a B Corp submission at the moment is really hyped to open our eyes to how we can be purposeful, how we can think about being meaningful and kind of conscious about the actions that we take as a business, separate to the proposition and what you do day-to-day as a business.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yes, there is still a lack of confidence and understanding among some firms when it comes to clearly articulating their positions on sustainability.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because of several factors.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sustainability is a complex and evolving landscape.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: It encompasses various environmental, social, governance factors, and the terminology and frameworks makes it pretty challenging for institutions to navigate and communicate their sustainability approach with clarity and consistency.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: There is also greenwashing concerns.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Firms may hesitate to communicate their sustainability positioning due to concerns of being perceived as greenwashing or facing scrutiny for inadequate efforts.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, oftentimes it's also a knowledge and expertise gap.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, institutions are still having trouble with the necessary knowledge and expertise to effectively communicate the sustainability positioning and communicating that requires understanding specific environmental and social impacts of the firm's operations, as well as the ability to translate all of this technical information into clear and accessible language.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think the only thing you didn't mention there, Patib, which I would add to that, is regulation.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think, and especially when we look at our clients and we look at the businesses we work with, our industry, the burden, frankly, around regulation, the different frameworks for sustainability in different regions around the world is making it very hard to create one consistent corporate view of what we do and how we behave and communicate that through to investors when you have such a myriad of different investor requirements, expectations, beliefs that you're trying to almost appeal to everybody at the same time, somehow it all gets mashed in the middle, doesn't it?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that gets really hard.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So well put, Benji.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: We've spoken about companies setting up their own internal sustainability agenda.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a risk that many of them either try to tackle all of these massive global problems in isolation by going it alone or by looking to join a worldwide initiative, whether that be the PRI or B Corp?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So what sort of partnership opportunities lie between going solo and being one of the herd?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what are the benefits of partnering with other businesses to try and tackle sustainability, Pratiba?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: To us, you know, interestingly, partnership is the very fabric of our being an unreasonable group.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that no single institution, individual or corporate, is equipped to go at it alone.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about building and convening a community.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that is communities at the ethos of everything that we do.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because the opportunities offer a middle ground where businesses can be collaborating with others and while maintaining unique positioning and contributing to the collective efforts.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: So there are to us key reasons why we should be coming together as a community, as a force for good.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So starting off with collective impact, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: By forming partnerships, businesses can amplify their impact on sustainability issues.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So through joint initiative, businesses can achieve greater scale and influence, leading to a lasting change.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Second is knowledge sharing and learning.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about providing a platform for businesses to share best practices, exchange ideas, and learn from each other's experiences.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Risk mitigation is another reason why we believe partnerships can help businesses mitigate risks associated with sustainability challenges.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So by collaborating, firms can be managing or sharing the burden of managing and navigating complex issues such as supply chain sustainability, human rights, or climate change.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that can enhance resilience.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really hard to figure this all out yourself, Kirsten.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so without the opportunity to engage and to learn from others, I think you just risk kind of rowing your little sailboat out into the ocean and getting lost.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit representative, I think, of the way that when I think about sustainability agendas in our industry, for too long they kind of sat siloed to, I think, the genuine business objectives and the actual C-suite priorities that were happening.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sustainability was kind of happening off in a corner by a team of people.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: That I think has changed.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now there's a direct line into the C-suite, into the board, about the way that these issues are being talked about.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's allowed you to harness more people, more authority, more resources to get things done faster.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: The same applies to partnerships.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think about partnerships at a kind of business-to-business level, they're actually quite difficult to put together because everyone has slightly different objectives and slightly different ambitions.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it is relatively rare in my experience where you get that lovely sweet spot of someone who you don't compete with, who has a different priority you has a really nice kind of alignment of proposition and the same values and philosophies about working together.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you get it, it's wonderful.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Got to work really hard to it, though.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it just happens by accident.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I 100% agree.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: The reason, and this is that's the delicate balance, if you will, when we think about partnering with companies or partnering with institutions and really bringing them together.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: To me, when I look at areas or challenges we need to be overcoming, it is, Benji, you hit the nail on the head.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's misalignment of goals and objectives.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: How do we ensure that the primary barrier to partnering is just ensuring that we have effective communication on what is our unified goal and objective when we bring stakeholders, a diverse set of stakeholders, if you will, to the table.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Second is competing interests and competition.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, when we look at working with institutions in the market, we are very sensitive to competing interests and competition.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: To us, it is ensuring that we are protecting the goals and objectives of these growing ventures, but also ensuring that they can, the large established institutions can act as a bridge, not necessarily act as competition.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Another area that we look at is lack of awareness and experience.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes there is this want to partner, but not necessarily understanding what does it take to be able to do, you know, have an effective partnership.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, you know, managing collaborative opportunities is at the core of why we do or why we exist.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure we always spend enough time asking why we are exploring a specific partnership.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: The way that we see this at a very practical level for our industry is the way that we think about some of the big industry bodies, people like the PRI, Climate Action 100 Pass, TCFD, these bodies and organizations that have been put together to try and harness everything that Pratiba's just talked about, but I've almost become, and this is just entirely my own view, have become almost their own worst enemy because they've become so large and so unwieldy that people aren't really sure why they're part of those organizations anymore.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Am I doing this because my investors expect me to be that?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Am I doing it because it's a kind of stamp of authority and it helps me show some level of accreditation?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I doing it because I truly think this is the right thing to do and I want to be part of this, I want to engage?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're seeing some real frustration from asset managers now about the level of burden that is required to remain part of all of these industry bodies without necessarily being super clear that their investors actually truly care about this.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do they find it meaningful?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a signatory to the UK stewardship code, do you think your investors actually go and read that 80-page document that you put together and had to submit every single year?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a huge amount of work going into it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's quite a lot of frustration with people like the PRI about the scale of the operation now, slightly operational nature of it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And is this meaningful?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: What is it, what is it doing anymore?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is it achieving?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to balance that against the need for scale, as Pratiba talked about, I think, I think it's hard, but I do think there's a bit of a changing of the guard happening in our industry at the moment about what organizations I'm going to be a member of.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to think about it as a little bit more thoughtfully and clearly as to what I'm trying to do with them?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can't just continue to churn out the level of reporting and data and content that's required to support every one of these ambitions when I don't know that investors are likely to spend the time to go and look at it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a level of arrogance that we would think that they would in the first place.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you just mentioned, Benji, is really understanding the value proposition, the why, as you started the uh the segment.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: For us, when we think about the why and the place where we often see confusion is just the ones which you just also talked about, is this imperative perception of having to join large organizations on financial risk or environmental risk disclosures, and seeing like we have forgotten the why behind that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we really bring that back and ensure that there is the right critical reporting in place, the right data governance frameworks in place, and there is the right collaborative opportunities where we come in also in place.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is really like building out a portfolio or amalgamation of different facets, which is critical, rather than getting almost stuck, if you will, in a myriad of different perception of what is needed.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's an exciting opportunity and it's an exciting time for marketing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Never has there been more of an opportunity for marketers to work across their business, to be involved in technology issues, in culture issues, and potentially even HR and recruitment and think about data and think about reporting and automation.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the opportunities are huge.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the team that should be able to help think about articulating and explaining and telling the stories around some of these really challenging issues.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing isn't just a fulfillment center anymore, it's so much more.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: We focus an awful lot on businesses and on corporations, but I know that one area that's important to both Unreasonable and also White Marble is person-to-person.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's that mentorship.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think for us, mentorship is something that we've really been very focused on.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's because everyone is on their journey and it's a lonely one, you know, be a professional within an organization or you are CEO of a company who is helming a large growing in a large, rapidly growing company, there's always a need to really build out your own board of advisors so that you can always brainstorm and really ensure that you have that mental capacity to know that you're not alone.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it offers benefits for us.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: One is knowledge and skill development.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: We are constantly learning as people.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And to us, having a diverse set of mentors, and to me, again, just to like rewind back a bit, I don't think of just one mentor.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: I always, for me, as someone who's, you know, who's been in a career path for a while, it is important to tap into a network of mentors.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you are tapping into what is best where you are able to best leverage them.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So knowledge and skill development is one area.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as we think about really expanding our remit of understanding what's out there in the world, mentorship provides that opportunity for mentees to gain knowledge from experienced mentors, be it industry specific or practical advice.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Second to me is feedback and reflection.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Mentors offer constructive feedback and guidance, helping you know, people like me, for example, identify my strengths, areas of improvement, and my blind spots.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So when we think about receiving these valuable insights, it's almost like you know having a mirror in front of you so that you're able to see your own performance, development, and behavioral areas so that you can be making meaningful improvements to reach your full potential.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And last and but not the least, it's also about building an effective network.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's be part of a community where we are effectively having the right relationships and community that can propel us forward.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's such a great answer.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love the description of your own board of advisors because that was something that I was given as a piece of advice very early on in my career was that you had to go out and find those four or five people and create your own board of directors, as I was as I was told to call it, as those people who would know you well enough that you could go to them when you had a career challenge or maybe a career opportunity, and they would know you well enough to be able to give you some genuine feedback and kind of help you think about the way industries are changing and propositions are changing and you're changing and how to make sense of some of those.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And ideally, they wouldn't have any line management role aspect to you, so there would be a level of independence there.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I I know and I still have those same four or five people who I know I can call on once or twice a year and go, hey, I've got a problem, or I'm trying to figure something out, and I think it's crucial.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say we're quite early on at White Marble in terms of figuring out how to do mentorship.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I know it's really important is because this hasn't been driven by the directors of the board, but by other people in the business going, hey, we must have, we must put in place a structure and a program and an opportunity for people to be mentored.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we've kind of done phase one of it, and and phase two will will come as we think about mentorship for some of the more senior people.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've kind of built the platform for people at the more junior level to kind of have those opportunities, those people.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's quite internal at the moment.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're now trying to build out the second phase with a slightly more external lens.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think it's crucial.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, are there any thoughts or tips that you would like to share with our listeners when it comes to all things sustainability or partnerships that perhaps we haven't had the chance to cover today?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: It can be hard sometimes, and I can find it at a personal level getting a bit overwhelmed with all of the data and the kind of the bad news and the kind of direction of travel is is so it it's important, I think, to try and just not send yourself down a rabbit hole and get too overwhelmed by it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to people is generally a good starting point.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: The flip side is I think there's a ton of good news out there, and I think there's a lot of opportunity, and some of Patiba's captured that's kind of upside of the way that businesses can do things better.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's an enormous opportunity for our industry as it tries to harness these kind of twin values of what do we do and how do we behave, the opportunity there is huge.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: We write quite a lot about sustainability, we have built a certificate for marketers trying to get a better handle and learn a bit more about this topic.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: There are tons of places to go and find out and ask for help.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone wants to get in touch and just be pointed in the direction of more sources of useful information, super, super happy to do that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was so so beautifully said, Benji.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: For me, one is like for firms to be investing in sustainable literacy, um, really providing that training and education to employees so that as we think about the evolving landscape, that we are all on a learning journey and to forgive ourselves because it is hard to really be encapsulating the multitude or the facets of what it really means to be a sustainable business practice right at the go.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it is ensuring that we are constantly learning and that we invest in learning.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Second to me is transparently communicating progress.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: To us, you know, as as you pointed out, Benji, marketing is at now become the fabric of storytelling, both internally and externally.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And firms need to be focusing on transparently communicating their sustainability efforts, goals, progress, and learnings.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: So to us, that is that when I think about sustainability or sustainability storytelling, narrative plays a strong role.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, for us at Unreasable Group, it is all about collaboration.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So collaboration with stakeholders, albeit a very delicate dance, uh, but engaging with stakeholders, including investors, customers, employees, or communities, it can really provide a beautiful close loop on how firms can be playing well together in this space because the problems that we're facing is larger than a single institution.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: It is as a society as a whole.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings us to the end of our 20 minutes.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: My thanks to Prativha and Benji for sharing their insights and expertise.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions about sustainability partnership or any other topic in this podcast, please do get in touch using the contact details in the description.
• 22:55
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• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: If there are any topics or investment life shows you would like to invite you to cover, please do get in touch.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find episodes from our earlier podcast in high on Apple, Google, and Spotify.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening until next time.