Latest / The Habit Lab / Episode 55: Intentional Sibling Habits: Strengthening Connections Through Shared Experiences

Transcript

Episode 55: Intentional Sibling Habits: Strengthening Connections Through Shared Experiences · The Habit Lab

• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We all have areas in our life we might feel stuck or overwhelmed.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So join me, jenna Zint, habit Coach, teacher and follower of Jesus, as we go after little bits of better by building offensively small habits that create big impact.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: This is the Habit Lab Podcast.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Habit Lab.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I am with a very special person who is kind of my other half.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'm with my brother, jonathan Jenkins.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: He's visiting for Christmas and I was like I want to do a podcast with you about our sibling connection habits and he very graciously agreed to be here.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So thank you.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I love you a lot and I'm so blessed to have you as my sister.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It was funny.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: When we left, we all went out to lunch and then John and I snuck to the office to record this and my kids would did not want to be without uncle John.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: They're like no, so I might've embellished how long the podcast is going to be.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I was like we're going to be recording a podcast for two hours and Rosie was like oh, so get ready for a long podcast.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, because we have to not be liars.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So, uh, no, but we did manage to ditch the kids.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Um, john.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: So john has been my brother my whole life okay, no, no, my whole life, that's true.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, 17 months older than me, so yes, my brother john.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I should just give you a picture right now of what he's wearing, to wear in my office downtown.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I have boots on, I have jeans on and a black hoodie.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: John, on the other hand, has a holster.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Well, his hair is longer than mine.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: It's like to his back right About, so he has a holster he wears instead of a purse.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: He has a custom leather holster that goes over both shoulders and it's studded with, like different gold embellishments.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: In his holster he usually carries his cell phone, his wallet, but then also a miniature harmonica.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Um, what else did you?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: What?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: were the mini figurines.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I have a miniature teacup and tiny animals tiny animals.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: He just randomly, you're like, okay, john's an interesting, you're like such a combination of fantastical but super grounded and like, like he's a, he's a big doer, I'm gonna.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I told him I was gonna just lay the framework of who he is for about five minutes before I let him talk.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: But in addition to the holster that he's wearing all the time, um, he has a green long sleeve shirt on, but then he has velvet leggings that are embroidered like some kind of like fancy aristocrat pattern.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: It's all black, and then he has gold.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: They have gold um zippers, and then he has some utilitarian boots on and I feel like, in a nutshell, that's you half fancy, half practical.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: If practical could meet fancy, you would.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: That would be your ideal right, daily wear too.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is daily.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I made the pants oh, did, oh, yeah, yeah, this is one of his businesses was making man leggings for a while.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: What?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: What was the company going to be called Snag Snag, and he designed because he was like there's not a good pair of man leggings out there and I was like you might be.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: There is a small demographic but you're probably friends with all of them you won't want man leggings like this.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: So, anyways, okay, my brother and I we kind of tease that we have side-by-side lives, like we're different in the same I.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: We often tease that I have the suburban mom version of his life where we will call up and talk to each other and find out that we have both in the last month done very similar things.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: But I have the G version to the events that John often has, the PG-13.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: To art, to art, yes, yeah, events that, john often has the PG 13 to our, to our, to our, yes, Um, yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So my brother and I both grew up charismatic.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Christian John has taken a different path in his mid twenties, so we'll get to that.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: But I think it's kind of context for what we're talking about, Like some of the differences too.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: But like one time to give you another example of our lives running similar just cause I think it's a lot of how we were raised, but then our personality I don't think we're not like twins, but there is so many uncanny similarities in how we're raised.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: So this one time we were chatting and I was talking about how I had just hosted a talent show for my friends and a lot of people don't just casually host talent shows.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: This was a couple of years ago and you're like, oh my gosh, I just hosted a talent show in my backyard for my friends and I was like what?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: But then the G version was like it was an adult.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: But then I let my kids come in and they did two songs Like what does the fox say?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And then maybe Elsa.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So they got to participate, but then John's involved.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Every participant, when they came in, had a bit of a hallucinogen before they.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So when we were talking I was like yep g to your rated r version.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Both a talent show, but that's kind of where they yeah so then, like for uh parties that we threw, that we found out later, we both did like a similar game or type.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Things for other people are different.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Like we dressed up to go look at christmas lights the same night and we called each other.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: We're both in costumes going, just like so many weird similarities.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like wow.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably why I said the twin thing is like.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: When they talk about like being on the same page, even far away, you're like this is crazy.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So, John, though, let's see, I would say what's so different about you?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: One, he's like six.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Two and charismatic six three.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, but you might weigh as much as I do, so we don't look similar.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Most people think you're older because of the beard and the yeah and boisterous.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: You're just as outgoing as I am Since you shaved your beard off.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that helped.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I lost 10 years Um but I was going to say I remember the first time.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you like your awareness in your childhood, when you realize your brother's not like everybody else, like you, have something different in you.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: It was when, um, he was, I think you were in eighth grade and we'd gone to an acquire the fire event Sorry, sneeze, I'm not going to edit that out, too much work.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Um, we had gone to, like this big Christian it was the East coast thing, it was a big event, probably thing.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: It was a big event.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Probably a couple thousand kids, all the youth groups went and they'd have a big mission component and you were like I'm going to go on a missions trip and you decided that you're going to was it was it Costa Rica, panama was his first trip.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: But what he knew is that this is how John's brain works, so differently.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: He knew that he had to warm up our parents, so he actually rented stuff from the library about Panama.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Do you remember this?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Like, you brought books home.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, you brought books home from the library at school and I think you might've even rented a video, but anyways, and I asked you what you were doing and you're like I know mom would be feel nervous and overwhelmed.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: So if I ease her into the idea by us all learning about the country together, she and dad are more likely to say yes.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, the strategy of that Were you in eighth grade.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I was 14.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: 14?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: .
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I was 13 when I decided to go, 14 when I went.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in high school and then he did all kinds of entrepreneurial things to pay for his missions trip.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: He did raffle tickets.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And then I remember he organized a big cake sale at our church.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: But when my brother does things he doesn't like me, but even more extra where I remember, like you got some of the elders of the church in a bidding war over some of your man-made cakes Cause they were like a train wreck, and you decided to like, lean in instead of being embarrassed.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: You're like it's a thing, it's a man-made cake.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And then there was, like I think your cake sold for like a hundred bucks.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: It was insane.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: He just everything you do.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like you never get stuck in something going awry.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Wherever it lands up, you're like, oh, how could I win with this hand, which?
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I think that would be an example of that cake.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that cake example.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So then he went to panama and that started him on a bunch of missions trips.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: And then the next year he went to papua new guinea, which is a small island the next year oh did you go on a missions trip or just go with your friends?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: family twice one mission trip, one surf trip okay, okay.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: And then I remember papa new guinea.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: He was the first white person that the tribe they were going to, a really remote tribe, which is crazy to me that they took teenagers there, which I mean it worked out well.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: You didn't get eaten, yeah, but at 16 to be the first white people the tribe had ever interacted with or met, and at first they thought we were their dead ancestors, that had come back from the past.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: So that groundbreaking reality shattering of anything is possible was really formative.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's cool.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I remember I saw the pictures of when you guys were entering the village.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: They made a line and you were actually, I think, probably the tallest, so they put you at the head of the line.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: So you were literally the first white person some of the people in the tribe saw.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And then I remember you came back telling me stories about their tribe's kids crawling around with knives in their mouths right.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Totally I think your paradigm of like I don't know because we grew up in the south of what's proper or possible, kind of got expanded a lot by those trips right, totally and then I remember you, he snuck home a blowgun on the airline.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Do you remember it was?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: A bow and arrow a bow and arrow from this trip.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And he, I was like how did you do it?
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And he just he said it was a poster.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: No, it was car sticks car sticks.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: He totally at that age already, john, just recognized like very few things are not possible without negotiation.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: You're like a you would be your other calling could have been a lawyer, because you right.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: There's very few things you cannot talk your way out of or into or convince someone else it's their idea.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I remember that and then, uh, so anyways, then high school, we didn't actually live together, my parents, we lived in separate houses.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: He lives with my dad, but my dad lived just two streets away, so I brought you to school most mornings and then he had a little guy.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: He had a couple of good guy friends.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Actually this is super funny yeah they were menaces, but they were kind of in some ways.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Uh, I would bring great.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: We were just menaces to you in the car.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they literally would throw my homework out the window.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not, you, the friends, no, and then you would.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: That was the cool part about you.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: You'd scold your friends and then they'd come back and apologize to me.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, you always were very kind and I remember sitting in high school having like moments of connection, tearful connection, in our processing things.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I always think we had no like deep.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: We thought even since when we were younger, we would fight more as little kids, but we've always been really close and we've always had open hearts yeah jenna was a much better kid, you know.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: She was like wants to be the you know top of the class and make her poster boards for her presentations weeks in advance.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like last minute, but I was, and I was a little more, a lot more rambunctious, but we were both taught to like respect and to be good.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So if we ever get called out, we're like I'm like yes, of course.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: And hardworking.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Hardworking and creative.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, resourceful I feel like mom that, like I said, you never took no as an answer.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: You were always were like what can I do with a hand?
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I'm dealt.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I think our mom really taught us to be resourceful and then our dad really taught us optimism which kind of went hand in hand with, like, our creative problem solving solutions.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I would say like anyways.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: But then John, this one time in high school he got in an accident and he got the insurance money Cause the his he had this Azuzu trooper the bumper came off.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: So the John when we were talking about it's going to get it fixed sorry, this is the funniest, this is all painting a picture.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Who my brother is?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Um, he decided to pocket the insurance money but he needed to get the bumper refixed on or it wouldn't pass inspection.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: In north carolina.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: You had to get your car inspected, so he bribed, he went and talked to the shop teacher at our high school, like the shop teacher, and asked what it would take for the class to have a project of welding his bumper back on.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And I think, for you brought, you made brownies and you brought like a cooler of drinks and then you convinced the shop teacher to have your car.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Do you remember this?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: See, this is just an example of like who I think that's like it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Like who thinks outside of the box of you know, like you're not defined by this isn't possible.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Like I just don't actually think you're someone whoever would be stopped by.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: This isn't possible, like what?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: if or we could, or how about.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: But the one thing is true about you is you, you want win-wins.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You're not a bulldozer sometimes.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I have to be like no, bro, I don't have more energy to ideate.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Can we pause?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: this and I'll.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I'll think about options later, but that's all the energy I have.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so then fast forward.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: You, I went to college and you visited me a few times.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the cool things about our relationship is we visited each other.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of getting to.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Eventually in this episode we're going to land in our the habits that have stayed helped us stay connected as siblings.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: But one of the things I was thinking about is how we visited each other in every season.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like I think you came down to visit me when I was in college and then after that it's just kind of been like the watermark ever went more than a year, even when I lived abroad yeah inside the world for eight years, like have we ever went more than a year?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: no for sure we haven't yeah, we've seen each other at least once a year and so it's been cool to be able to actually not just stay connected but get a window into each other's like life experiences in those seasons.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So I have so much more like we know each other's friends almost in every season, like we both have shared friends because of those connections, we've shared friends since you know school age as well, which has been really special to be like.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: My friends are yours, your friends are mine.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Even from different worlds, we still really get close to them.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I think that is partly our parents teaching us to truly almost have a respect or care for everybody.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: We were raised on a little small island so we were friends with 30-year-olds, know, and you remember we'd go out to lunch with jody and all those people.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: The other day when I watched wesley.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Who's five now?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: my son go out to the road and meet the um, the post lady and he's like hi, I'm wesley, shook her hand, looked at her, looked her in his eyes.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: His horizon was like how are you, how's your day going?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Just asked her a question and I, wow, reminds us of our childhood, where our dad would be like at church Okay, ask them a question, I don't know anything about them.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: He's like do they have children?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Do they have a job?
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: That's somewhere to start, and how?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Jenna's like embedding that in her children and how much that has actually shaped our ability to meet people as far as a habit.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: No, it's so true, well done.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: No, I actually no, it's so true, well done.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: No, I actually think that's one of the biggest uh tools that are.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: My dad more so.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: My mom was super resourceful, but my dad was like meet everybody, learn how to talk to an adult.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do you a favor to learn how to have conversation.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: After we'd like leave interactions, he and I would dissect like what went well, like hey, do you think it felt good for them for you to monologue the whole time?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Like no, and he's like what does it feel like when someone does that for you?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: What could like could you ask them a question?
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean he never shamed us, but he got like analytical about how conversations would go and help us try again the next time and then he would reward us trying things differently or being better conversationalists and I think it dramatically affected my ability to have conversations you do and starting it so young yeah, and then even the um initiative to start things like I don't feel afraid to start up a conversation.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: How about you?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Right I?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: think dad did so much of just talk to everyone all the time and he's also very accepting of like talk to any type of person about anything and he's gonna find the like gem in everybody look to the best of what anyone has.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And then for mom, it's so much of like you were saying, the resourcefulness and that anything is possible, Like going on the mission trips.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Mom was the one that's like I'll help you with the fundraisers and you can do this.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: And she's like PTA president and starts a daycare in her house.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: And our dad is sweet and open and more passive, which is an important trait to have and has impacted us deeply.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: But our mom you know we both, jen and I, both became entrepreneurs.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Her mom's always been a teacher but she's been an entrepreneur of sorts where anything she's like okay, we don't have money for this, but here's a different way that we can do it it's so true like we didn't have a ton of money for vacations but we would camp everywhere and we'd go to national parks because then she could afford that, or we'd take the groceries with us.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That's one of the ways that we still me and the kids and Aaron will vacation more.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, we don't actually have to do the.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like most people thought how you had to take a vacation, even cheaply, was like holiday in and eating out Versus with mom, like, oh, we could actually.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I actually prefer often camping and then making my own food and then having some kind of adventure, like giving the rest of our energy and time to adventure anyway.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I do great, mom taught us that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then fast forward.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I'm in college, john tries or he does the christian teen internship in texas for two years called teen mania, and they taught you a lot more leadership skills and um, also like ability, like empowered you way beyond, like teens ran their organization largely right.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So they were like you can do this, go and learn, call people, recruit people.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You're in charge of this team.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: You're um you're running this mission resolution, public speaking, personality profiling, like strategic management, all at like 18 19.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: We're taking 4 000 kids around the world every summer running this whole campus and internship and we're just like given the keys to run a huge thing without much experience.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the time you were telling me about how you were in Mexico and they're like okay, figure out how to make all these tents so like people got sick, or why did you end up in that spot?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I had went as part of the ops team.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I had already been like four or five mission trips and then there I went.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: That year.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Or total Up with over the years.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: With Team Mania and that one, I went to do the operations and there was 800 people going to Baja to build homes or Matamoros, Mexico, and then on the way there one of the team leaders got sick so he couldn't come.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So I had to set up 400 or 200 tents for 800 people and that was a whole mission.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: But that was not something you were planning on, because the guy got sick.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: The tents is what I was planning to go set up, wow and then it was the house building project and they had recruited one of the team leaders and had trained him, but then he wasn't able to go.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: So they're like we need a new team leader stat.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And you're supposed to be 21 and I was 20, but I had worked in the team leader department, so they were like Johnny, can you do this?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: And so then then I got, then had to run a 40 person church trip and be the male lead and we built a house and I was like, okay, here we go.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I think it showed.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I think you had some formative experiences in your life younger that showed you what you were capable of that.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I would say that have definitely like I see, that's where that kind of got developed or built, or that muscle in you really got formed.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So then, john, after he finished his two years there, he went to school, like in a college, or he did a year or two in North Carolina or back sorry on the east coast, and then one um, winter, was it the fall?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: He was like, hey, mom, jenna, I want to learn Chinese and I want to be fluent.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And he was taking it at the college he had.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: He was at a state college and he was like there's no way I'm going to be fluent by just doing starting at night or 20 something.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So he's like I'm going to go check out different Asian countries and go spend a couple of weeks.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: It was either, was it China and Taiwan that you, you were debating between, and he had a friend who had some like a family in taiwan.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So he's like I'm gonna go stay with them for three weeks and go see if, like you know, learn mandarin.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And mom and I at this point we were so used to you doing out of the box things because had you lived in africa, but I think I missed that point too.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So after the honor academy development I went to do um to do real estate development for a couple years and in between that um had still traveled um for months at a time to other countries in between the two positions and then quit one of the development jobs to then go live in Uganda to do aid work and spent about six months in Uganda, went back and that's when I started going to the state college and then to Taiwan okay, and then, then I was going to say that, yes, what were you saying?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I was going to switch chairs Because I'm just like laid back on it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: It's so funny, it sounds so silly to be like hey, watch your mic, but it sounds so different.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have it as far away as you I can hear the difference.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: That's why it's okay.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Yep, I think great Seven and seven.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: What is me?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: These are, this is you, this is me.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Oh gotcha.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just I hear the difference between when you're like you know, so I can hear the difference as well.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah just, I hear the difference between when you're like you know, so I can hear the difference as well.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, where were we at?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, sometimes that mic is finicky to Uganda or to Taiwan okay, okay.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: So then, after you came back from Uganda and you went to the state school, that's when the Mandarin or you wanted to go learn.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Mandarin.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: So he went, and by this point mom and I are like yep, this checks out, this is, this is standard, john.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, had you traveled to Europe yet I have to tell about your trip, okay.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: So, um, John wanted, in these gap years he had wanted to go explore europe a little bit for fun, because he'd always done missions work.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: But he decided this is how I tell the story, don't bust my bubble.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: But I did.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: And when I retell the story, he decided that flying there was too boring.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So he was like okay, you, he concurs.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: He's shaking his head, that's accurate.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So he decided he went to, wanted to sail from the usa to europe, um, because that was way more interesting.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But the problem was I was going to say he had no sailing experience.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: When he was telling me this.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, sure, but by now you have enough history that I'm like that's not going to stop my brother, he's going to figure this out.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So he went.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Finally, when I talked to him a couple of weeks later, he's like yeah, I've gotten this many hours, you know, practicing.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like how'd you do you get sailing experience with not paying for it?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And he went and sat.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: We lived on an island so there were sailboats, you know, and he'd go sit on the dock with a book until he made some connections of people who roughly taught him some basics.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Right, Is that?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: accurate, yeah.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: And then he found on a website he found I guess it's common for people who have their own boats to hire out crew to help them get across the voyage.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: So John convinced this British guy to hire him and his buddy, who he's going on the trip with, as a crew.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: But did you?
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You kind of overinflated your skills, right?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: The guy didn't know that you didn't have a ton of experience.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, and he ended up just liking me through conversation.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I've been, you know, done this many sales, but I didn't say I had the hard skills.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: But later on in the boat and he's a non-believing Brit and was like bloody hell.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: You're a Christian.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I don't believe in anything.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I never even had a drink of alcohol before I got on the boat.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: It was when I turned 21.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And so he's like you don't drink alcohol and you don't know anything about sailing.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: It was the stupidest decision and it was the best decision.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Or he kept the accent, but he was like I'm so glad I chose you to come, and I don't know why I did it, but I just thought it was going to be a great idea it was.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: It was super sweet that's cool.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So they then then to go on and point further is it was going to be too boring to buy a plane ticket, so he got hired as a sail crew and they literally sailed across.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: You went to bermuda and then portugal, an island off the coast of Portugal the Azores the Azores and then Portugal, and there's some.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: He has the.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: His friend that he went with was actually a professional photographer, so the best photos I actually have some of the photos in our house when you're on the Swiss Alps.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: So then when they landed in France again, it was too boring for my brother to buy plane ticket or train tickets, so he actually bought road bikes and they biked thousands of kilometers in Europe.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But the funny thing, you guys, is that John had very little biking experience right, you've never been on a road bike before this experience.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: So they they had stored the bikes underneath the like the hole of the boat, right, you didn't ship them over yet.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: So they went on the boat with them and then when they got to Europe, they biked and they just camped.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: They had hammocks, uh, and then all their stuff.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: The dude had a bunch of his camera equipment, but they stayed mainly like on the side of the road.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: But sometimes they stand in abandoned castles like they have this one picture of their hammocks like hung up, but in like an alcove of an abandoned castle with this awesome view.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And then because my brother can strike up a conversation with anybody, this is funny talking about you like you're not, like I'm not looking at you.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: But anyways, he met people along the way who were like stay at my apartment at the foot of the Eiffel Tower, Stay at my house in the Swiss Alps, Stay.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And he just like, because of talking and connections he just got a lot of open doors to.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: He did the running of the bulls in spain and he actually got in the like what do you call it?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: The?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: arena arena and I remember, I'll never forget because when he came back where our whole family was talking like hearing his stories, he said that he got in the arena and he was like am I gonna do it?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Am I gonna antagonize the bull?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And he was like if I'm here, I might as well.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: So then he like swatted the butt, the bull and my dad remember my dad's the kindest, sweetest, passive person.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: He goes, it's the most mad.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I think I've probably seen him and he was like that was stupid, john.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: He was like did you not want to live?
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I'll just remember being like wow, dad's really worked up, cause he said stupid like three times In a sentence.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I was like he was very mad.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: His mom kept saying she's like I don't know who's going to die first, john, me or you.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I'm worried.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And my grandma did beat you.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: She has passed at this point, yes.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So you made it longer than she thought.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And then he has this story of confronting a pickpocketer with a knife.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: And what country was that?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: That was in Spain.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Spain.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: So just all these stories plane.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So just all these stories.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: And he almost, uh, he got they didn't have proper equipment when they were like climbing in the swiss alps and he almost got left behind, right was it a gondola?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: left you you missed the last one we were up on on chamonix, mont blanc, and uh had some very close calls yeah, oh, that's.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: That's the picture I have, I think, right in our my, it's in our um.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: What do you call a foyer?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And I forget, you know, in your house decor you forget it's there.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: But he pointed what do you call it A foyer?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And I forget, you know, when your house decor you forget it's there.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But he pointed he was like Wesley, do you know who that is?
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And he told him a little bit of the story and Wesley was like whoa.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And then he ran away.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I was like he'll be interested one day, but to iceland, like a decade later, because of my bro, my brother's pictures, I was like, oh my gosh.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: So then, okay, that trip was worth mentioning.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: So then fast forward.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: He came home and then he did the like college, a minute at college, like did you even make it a full semester?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: yeah, I did a semester and then it was like I wouldn't be able to learn chinese well enough.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: But also they wanted me to do like two more years of chinese, just before it would even start counting as Chinese towards the major.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So I was like, if I can test out of these years of Chinese, so I was thinking at one point I would go back to that university.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And, to be fair, this is how my brother always thinks.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: It's like wait a minute, I don't want to do that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: What could I do so I don't have to do that?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: It's like that's resourceful again.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So then he went and stayed in Taiwan and I'll never forget so.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Then he went and stayed in taiwan and I'll never forget it was I think it's either christmas.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: We actually retold the story at christmas where I remember getting the phone call and john to mom and I were together and he was like hey, I'm not gonna come home, I think I'm gonna live in taiwan and jenna was just like.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, I expected that I actually remember being like yep, I expected you to stay there, and then he stayed there for five years six, no seven.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Five years.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Five years while he finished.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: He actually got his degree.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: From what university?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Ming Chuan Da Shui.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Say that five times.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It's right outside of Taipei, or is it in Taipei?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: It's in Taipei.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, and then while he was over there, I went and visited him once for fun and we went to the Philippines and, like it's crazy, you guys.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Taiwan you can.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: It's just so central and flights are so cheap.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: He would just go.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I had to.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: There's a season when I was deep in little kid life and not having adventures.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I couldn't ask him where he was because he would casually go to vietnam for the weekend, or bali, or indonesia, or gosh korea, all the places.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And I was like where I used to think of it, like carmen, san diego, where in the world is Jonathan?
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It's still true, though I mean you're in a less.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: He now lives in Colorado.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: He's been there for quite a few years.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: But when you're in Taiwan you could just, on the drop of a hat, right, go any which way.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: It was so fun.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So then we did, I had Audrey, but no, I think it was before I had Audrey, it was my final baby moon.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, aaron and I went to Hawaii.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: We had hiked, and then I went to visit you because I knew I wouldn't be able to take such a crazy international adventure and I won't forget we met up in the Philippines.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: So I flew by myself from California to the Philippines and I got there like the night before you or a couple hours, and it's a little sketchy, it was the Philippines, especially knowing now, and your first time to Asia.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, first time to asia.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, first time to asia.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So I had to get from the airport to the hostel by myself and I like was remember walking down some dark alleys and I'm like I could get kidnapped.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Right now.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, at least it was an intervention, but like the best way to go.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And then finally you came and we had all kinds of oh, that was the season in your life and you were the travel writer.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Remember he was writing for they were legit, like online magazines, but he got so much free stuff.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: So we, what hotel was?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: There's a really fancy hotel we were not staying at.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Shangri-La.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the Shangri-La and we got a free meal because he would wine and dine the media marketing person or whoever was in charge of promotions, they would wine and dine me.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's true.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But we'd get free meals, we got free massages, we got free stays and then we would go back to like our couple's massage.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: We're like no, no, brother sister, brother sister but they didn't speak english separate us.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was that was a funny story where we had told like we talked to the manager, he's like yeah, totally no problem, we'll give you both massages.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: When we came back the next day, no one spoke english and it was a couple's massage.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like oh, this is awkward.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Um, so then you lived in Taiwan and then you actually, a couple of years later, had a really bad motorcycle accident and you almost you're lucky to be alive Like you flew off Like 150 kilometers an hour.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I flew off a three story bridge unintentionally.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And then you fell into a cement ravine that had a couple inches of water.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a drainage ditch.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: So the water is what saved my life, because otherwise I'd have been kerplunked.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: But I broke a lot of things.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: But I shattered my pelvis so I couldn't walk for months.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It was in the hospital for weeks and then Jenna came out to be my caregiver.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: So Taiwan's different Once you get real well, I mean nothing's handicap friendly.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: So, like I was, literally I remember I flew in and I think we helped get you from the hospital to the your friend's house and you had to stay somewhere else because yours didn't have no elevator no elevator because they don't have handicap laws, and I'll um, I'll never forget too.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I was pushing you around taiwan in your wheelchair, but so many of the like, the sidewalks, have vendors, you know, because there's no rules like we do or it's not sorry, it's not police like we do for being handicap accessible.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: So we'd have to go in the middle of the road a lot because we literally couldn't go other places.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I remember one time it was raining and I was just running with you down the street in a wheelchair in the streets of Taiwan, being like what am I?
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: This is very wild, yeah, so then fast forward.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: When this is very wild, yeah, so then fast forward.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: When he came back from Taiwan, I just think it's interesting.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going pretty deep into details at this point, but as.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I thought about it.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, am I going to go this deep?
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I want it on record.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I'll play it for the kids at some point too.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: He came back and he has lived in Colorado since he moved back from.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Taiwan so you've been in Colorado.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: How many years?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Nine or ten now, wow.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of a treat to have you in the state in the same country for nine or ten years, and my kids are learning mandarin, so it's super cute because john his years in taiwan.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: He could speak.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Probably do you speak.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: You speak better than them.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Still, right definitely, definitely, but I mean I won't tell them very quickly change.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very quickly.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: It's fun listening to them converse and like they'll write Chinese to him and they'll compliment him and it's just cute.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: And then, because he's bold and brave, whenever we're together, if he ever sees Asian tourists, he bribes them to go with him to talk to them, and they all.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Whenever my kids talk to Asian tourists, they're like shocked at how good their accent is.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it's all me.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: No, that's their public school education.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So you, though.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: When he moved to Colorado, he started a.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Eventually he did real estate development commercial real estate for a while, and then investment real estate and then he transitioned to owning his own property.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: You started a corporation called Everland, and you had how many acres outside of Denver.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: We had 145 acres surrounded by national forests, about an hour outside of Denver, and it was an old Korean Christian church camp.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so there was like a sanctuary and there was like you know there's a church, yeah, retreat center and gathering spaces, and then on it was like a couple cabins, a couple camping things, a couple homes, homes, and then his big.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: He had a 6 000 square foot house that came with it.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: That's where you lived.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So whenever the last couple years when we've gone out to see you, we've stayed there.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: So it's like me and my kids and my brother's commune in the woods, tree nets and swings and off-road vehicles, and the kids loved it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we'd playground to take them.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: It was so fun and we always, we never knew who we were going to meet, what country they're going to be from, whether they're going to believe in time or think that was an idea at one time.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: You guys, okay, this is a funny story we were talking about.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I won't give any names but john couldn't pick us up.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I was flying.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, you guys, you know any of you moms out there I was flying from california to visit him because, again, we see each other like that's one of our.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: It feels like a pillar in our friend or siblinghood, what do you call it, sister?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: no, yeah, sisterhood, your hair is long enough to be sisterhood um, I like I flew across country with wesley by myself, wesley, rosie, audrey, and wesley was a baby like less than six months old and car seat by myself.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting in the denver airport like on the side of the road for pickup, with all the backs, with all the car seats, and john had to send his friend.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: He couldn't pick us up and his friend was just different, like he had star glasses.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I mean more different than you star glasses, eccentric, out there fella yes, and as I'm picking him up or as we're, we're gonna have like an hour in the car together.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: We ended up having two hours because wesley had a blowout.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: We had to get diapers and then we had to go to chick-fil-a and he didn't believe and you know, it's like it's been a decade since I've been in the fast food market and like I am I already feel shame.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Now I feel real bad, but I remember.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to have make conversation with this guy like 10 minutes in and I'm like how old are you man?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Now that sounds maybe a little.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I had tried other questions first.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: It's not where I started this is not where I started.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: That's not my go-to how old, are you oh?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: you're too old to drive me around.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but to that question, when I asked him how old are you, he said oh, I don't believe in the constructs of time.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: It's a man-made metric that can't define me.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking that's what older ladies say too, I remember when he answered I was like, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna figure out any small talk with this man.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I might just sit silently unless he says something.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: What constructs do you believe in?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so then we'd go.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I remember staying with him and my kids would.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I'd ask john to like childrenify his house so he'd take away all the inappropriate statues or whatever there was, but then also any weapons, because again he's traveled around the world and have.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: So we're staying in his room, which was he was so gracious to let me and the kids like kick him out of his room, stay in his room.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And he's like don't worry, I baby proofed my room and I went in and there's like literal, do you remember there's store?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: there was like miniature ones, but there was actual, like daggers or something like that more baby proof yeah I was like, okay, fragile crystals, oh yeah, thousands of dollars and I was like I think your definition of baby proof and my definition of baby proof, I'm not this thing.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: So, anyways, that's where he's been.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: He had everland for quite a few years, and then how long has it been closed?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: He's since sold it about three years, three.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: No, I can't it's not been that long three years when we stopped operating.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I guess we sold it a year ago finally.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: So now two and a half years of yeah, two and a half years it's not been operating, but it's been a year that you've not had it in your life, which has been a huge because it was.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: It was a big lift, it was a lot, it was a community project, it was a gathering space, it was retreat center raising millions for the like crap to fund it.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So what's the?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was different, that was another part of our lives that were so similar?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Is I had lost my business or like shut down and sold my business in the same year actually that you sold yours.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I remember that created a lot of empathy for me because I was like oh, this is a big hit, identity, emotional, it's good and we know.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Like for both mine and yours it was kind of like a choice and we were okay with it.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: But still, it's like once you make the decision until you're finished actually walking away.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: It's such a long process.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: That's a long when you create and birth something from the beginning, and especially when it's such a community thing Germans for tots.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Also, there were so many people involved in it and so many people knew about it and we had to unwind because of a protest from our neighbors, just because we were bringing too many people up and we were expanding our permitting, so something outside of our control and how big, how big they actually hired someone to protest professionally against them.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: John, for years had been like going to the councils to get their permits, and then they found out they hired someone to like help increase their protest 70 letters written to the commissioner to say stop this project.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: It's a small town and we just we were doing a lot of what they were not wanting or used to yeah but in the point of like letting go of that we were both, you know, had massive successes and failures, and like having to close something that we built.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: So it was a great time to to learn together, together and to reflect together.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: But, you know, it was really devastating to me at times, and now I'm so.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I feel so much gratitude and excitement over what it was and there's so much positive energy around it still.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: But that was a hard time to you know, just with my own emotions, and I remember Jenna would leave me voice messages, speaking of a habit.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, you remember that Of course, it was one of the most profound things, like she would.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people like you're doing good and encouraging me in different ways and yada yada, but Jenna would leave me specific voice messages that reflected my character and gave examples of things that I did in my life or things that she saw that she's like when you did this and this.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: It showed this and because of this and this is also where I saw you replicate those same things and it would just like give me so much light when it's like feeling so much weight and heaviness and I just want to honor you for that, jenna, and that was really powerful in that healing process.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever told you, but when I got the call that you were closing it, I felt overwhelmed with like sadness and maybe a little fear, because I had just walked through it.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So I knew like what, how much more weight was ahead.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: It's hard enough making the decision, but then knowing that's not it.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: It almost reminds me this is an analogy that you're going to understand, but it reminds me of like when you give birth you think that's the end, but actually the first three months your baby's like alive is.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: They call it the fourth trimester because it's so much more.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: That's what I feel like when you, when you decide to close something, and then how much more you have to walk it out.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: So I felt fear and then I just felt like man.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I felt sad because in other seasons, when we had more money, I would have sent you money to help, like knowing that financially, there was a bit of a component of you figuring out how you're going to pay your bills and how you're going to eat, and you were living so frugally as you're tidying it up.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: So I um, I remember god was like if you can't give him money, that doesn't mean you don't have anything to give and I like it was kind of a time in my life where the first time I realized there were other resources I could be generous with outside of money, so I was like, well, what did I need?
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: and in that season and I was like I actually needed identity because I felt so much shame from the weight of what parts of my character led to this, or like, how did I contribute to the shutting down and affecting so many people's lives?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go after investing in him like this, because this is a resource like words of affirmation who I see you to be is something I have, even if I don't have the money to solve it.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So it was fun though it was.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think that actually really increased our connection to, because it was just the frequency we don't usually talk daily, but it was like some level of touch point, for mine was like I'm going to do it for 30 days.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: So and it's like something that would be on the phone, but a lot of times it's just a voice message or voice memo.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And just because whenever?
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: But how powerful that was do you remember that sometimes the kids did it too?
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I would just be like audrey, tell uncle one thing you like about him or something.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: So it was fun.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: And then we actually talking about different connection habits we have.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: We went out there when you were closing it to say goodbye to everland it was decided that we were going to close, and then audrey goes to jenna.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: She's like mommy, we can't not go.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: This is a hard time in Uncle Johnny's life and we have to be there for him.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I was like, yes, audrey, yes.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I remember that and at first it was a lot.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: We had a lot going on, but I was like, no, there was something, because I think up to this point, with how much we are there for the main moments in each other's life, I was like, okay, no, I'm going to figure out how to get me and Andre and Rosie to go say goodbye to everyone.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: It felt almost like a graduation send-off memorial moment.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And it was just us.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't there for a big ceremony.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I had been there for other points that were big.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: You had the Ever.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Camp and different things.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But I was like, okay, I'm going to go, but it was cool to invite.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things we're trying to teach the kids, even in our family, like culture and habit, is like we're there for the big moments.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Like obviously not everyone could be in that circle where we'll move hell and high water to get there.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: But I was like, oh, like when Audrey recognized it as like this is what we do as a family, why aren't we going?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: It kind of was like a call to action for me and then I think, even to speak to.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I think you actually even paid for one of our tickets.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: That's the cool part about you is knowing that there's three of us coming to you.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You've always kind of had some like some level of skin in the game of contribution to get us out there.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So it's like I think the knowing that we're both invested in staying connected or being there for each other has been totally mutual totally which was really special.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: And then you even plan all these things.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I remember when we went out, it's not like the whole trip revolved around the kids, but you are intentional, Like I want to do this with them and this with them.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: And he planned the sweet little scavenger hunt.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: He dressed them up in costumes Cause my brothers.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: If I described what he was wearing, just imagine the fullness of his costume wardrobe.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: He fullness of his costume wardrobe.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: He has, like, a huge top, I mean everything.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: He has more costumes, several walk-in closets full of eccentric clothing, yeah, so the girls love dressing up so he let them.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: He took them up there on purpose, intentional.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: They got to choose their outfits, they did crazy makeup I mean like kind of face painting makeup and then he took them.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: He wrote these little scrolls that were a scavenger hunt that led them to the final thing, which I think was a geodeode, and they got to like hammer it and see the you know the, the crystals inside.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: It was just really cool.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: But I think every time we do that, you always come with like one plan on how you're going to connect with the kids.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Um, can you speak to that?
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: What has that been intentional or has that been more fun for you?
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Or you know, like I mean, it's probably just mom embedded in us, because you do the same thing and how mom creates such deep activities with us, since when we were little, both our parents were teachers, but our mom quit working in the public school and she started a daycare and then a preschool at our house.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: So we've always just seen examples of like this and this and this and you know outside of the box thing.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: So I think there's part of that's ingrained in me.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but then the fruit that I benefit from it is getting real, intentional time with them, rather than like, okay, we'll go to this park or tell me about your day to create some moment Like right now I'm working on the girls with the girls writing a book with chat GBT and teaching them how to use that tool more to create their own stories as a creative tool.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: That's well, that's what I was going to say.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: So, like that's an example of what I was saying, it feels like you most of the time, come with one thing that you're going to intentionally create and connect with them, and this time it was like hey, I want to take some individual time to write a book with you to the kids, with chat GBT, and it's been, and you've stuck with it capacity and attention span, so you won't push them to completion, like sometimes mom comes with tasks and she's like do it perfectly all at once, and also my attention span matches theirs.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, girls, we've done enough.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Right now we take a break yeah, 30 minutes is great, but then you follow up and you you've stayed with it and then the kids feel like they have a thing with you.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to have that time one-on-one or with them collectively is just that one day could be more than you know a whole week.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: It's true, like the, it's like the quality versus quantity.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: You realize that if you have come with some level of activity, you're going to get quality time and then it's cool.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I think, um, okay, I'm going to pivot a little bit.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: I had told him at first we're going to do a different thing, but I think let's dive into some of the habits of connection and then the next episode we'll film or record will be how to stay connected when your beliefs differ.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: So we'll make that second episode, but I was going to say that's one thing that we've done, I would say, is just to recap staying connected, like to see each other in every season, and actually compromise what that looks like.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: So, whether you've contributed a bit to the plane ticket, or I've contributed a bit, or I'll come take care of you, or how can we get the kids out, or lining up our family trips home so that we both can be home at the same time reworking things, I think there's been a level of intentionality without control for both of us.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Actually, it was really sweet.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I remember I don't remember what birthday it was, but one of your birthdays you actually wanted to see Audrey, so bad that you paid for her.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Remember this was years ago.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Cause that it must've been your 30th, because I only had audrey at that point and you paid for.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: You're like I miss my niece so much, so for his birthday present you paid for audrey's plane ticket out there and I paid for my plane ticket.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I actually was.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: We laughed, but I was really touched.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I was like what other 30 year old man cares this much about his niece or nephew?
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: To like put put your money where your mouth is?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: I think I think that's one of the things that's so cool.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes people get stuck in either or, but I think a lot of our connection is collaborative, like both.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Some level of investment in it, without it being very different lifestyles.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: So we do it different ways, but we're both.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: It's reciprocal.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to ask.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: So I would say we probably.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: You know how.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Like I call my mom a couple times a week.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: My mom and my dad, that's like one of my habits.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I call them on the way to get the kids from school or when I have a moment in the car just to have, more often, shorter conversations.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: But you and I our schedules don't always line up, because you're a bit nocturnal with your schedule and then the time difference, and then me with little kids and then early morning.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: So we have a very it's almost like we live in different countries with our time differences, so we don't talk all the time.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: But I feel like when one of us tries to connect, we'll call a few times until we connect and then we might talk.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: It's almost like we have we start a conversation and then we'll finish it over the course of a couple of days and then we won't talk together maybe for like a month to six weeks, right, but then we'll like talk again and like finish the conversation.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: So I think there's like a fluidness of um, frankly, like not being offended, like if one of us wants to connect, we will, and like I'm not offended at your pace or being different, or vice versa for me.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: So we'll just keep calling or texting until it aligns.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: It's like you keep knocking.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: And it's like we love to hear about each other's lives, but really I like love to hear about like changes in the kids as they're growing up or like magical things that are happening.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: But for us we'll really dive in because we're still really close friends.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: We adore hanging out with each other, so it's like we have this idea or right now, like getting to explore AI together, or talking about a certain concept or a book, that is, is the mic going?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just can't touch the cord.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we don't have a great equipment.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Or something that we're excited about, or some possibility or some, you know, some course you're going to come out with.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Like our minds still love to like work together and I really value that in our relationship.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I think I love your.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Like you, there's not a lot of people who can match my energy or enthusiasm, or could go down a rabbit trail of brainstorming the possibilities.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: So sometimes if I want that energy, I'll just call you.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: We have a hurricane of brainstorms.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, if I want that energy, I'll just call you.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a hurricane of brainstorms.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: And then we like hang up in four minutes Like okay, I got to go because the kids are picking up.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, yeah.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Woo, bye, I was going to say.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I think too, though we both ask each other questions Like follow up, ask more detail, How's that going, how did that work?
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Do you want to like pivot versus like?
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes people wait for their sibling to pursue, and then almost get more sad or hurt by the lack of it, but it's almost like both investing and asking for the connection that we want you know Right, asking how the other person is doing or asking for feedback and offering feedback Like.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I don't like whenever you tell me your ideas or your thoughts or opinions or vice versa.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like anyone's ever like this is how you should think or what you should do.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: But we want to hear each other's thoughts because we're coming from such different places and then we're also coming from such similar places.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: The suburban mom and the burning man single man or not single man, but childless have very different places but similar wiring, how we approach things.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I would say that's a cool thing too that you'll ask me if I'm interested in feedback and I tried to do the same too.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Versus like jumping into giving opinions or like thoughts on it, be like asking like how you've got there or being curious.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Versus like almost like opinion forward because we are so different, have such different lives, like knowing, like oh, like what made you do that or how'd you feel when they said that.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Or are you liking that aspect of your life right now, or you know, and then, based on that, asking more follow-up questions rather than like almost leading each other to answers that we I don't know think maybe would be the right.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: It's actually true curiosity for each other's inner work like worlds I would say you've also been on a journey the last couple years of growing an emotional health and like john would like.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: So the stuff that aaron and I use communication, you know like I don't know, skills, yeah, yeah, I mean like that's one of a few, but you call it non-violent communication and you've really been growing in your respect well, I don't.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: It is a type of communication that I look to.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: It's not my methodology.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I'm aware of that, yeah, and I was assuming other people were too, but the point is that's been a more common overlap and I've actually seen so much growth in you too, as you've in the last couple years I think that's been cool, even when you were running Everland your openness for feedback, to hear how other people are experiencing or encountering you, because you are such a big personality, like your awareness of it's, you're confident and you're resourceful and you're a leader and you're influential, but you're not above feedback, like you actually care about your impact on people or how they're experiencing you.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Um, and I think it's just one of the things that has been a secret sauce too, because usually you get either.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Or, like people who are open to feedback are more like doubting their abilities or capabilities.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: It kind of like is an achilles heel, or the people who are really confident and influential think they get like I don't want the layman's opinion, but you actually care?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: yeah about your experience, which has been cool and then been open for us.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: If we ever do need to give each other, I think we I'm trying to think of.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: There's been some times which we'll get into the next episode, but sometimes there's been hurt feelings, but more we can talk about it or like, oh, I'm not enjoying this conversation or I think I'm getting a little sad or hurt.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Can we pause or come back to it, versus like making messes with each other.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Would you say it's accurate, definitely, I can't think of any fights we've had.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I mean plenty of fights when we're in the back of our parents' Oldsmobile and I'm pulling your hair.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: but you know I was six One time you guys, we had, do you remember this?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: The Velcro ball experience.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: So we were on a long road trip and there was ball experience.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: So we're on a long road trip and there was, you know, like the 80s had the suction cup and it was a velcro ball target and the balls you'd throw and the and it would stick on the target and the target was next to my head, on the window, and I had really long hair.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: I had hair that was to my knees when I was young and my brother got mad at me and he threw the balls.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've got them purposely in my hair or just acts, quote, unquote, accidentally, and they got so stuck in my hair it took my mom.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: She had to cut them out.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I did not remember this, but I love hearing this.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when I think of you, the words of Wesley.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: it was an accident, yeah.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Wesley totally says that.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm thinking of other habits of connection, seeing each other.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Other habits of connection seeing each other being there, important seasons, chatting, but not being controlling, being curious when there's differences, versus like judging the differences in each other, being interested in what's happening in each other's lives and doing follow up conversations, like really caring.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: And then another piece for me that has been actually since the beginning I was thinking about this is we've done letters or mail each other.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: So when John after high school went to that teen mania organization.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I sent him.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Do you remember how?
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: I sent you letters or packages, all kinds of things you gotta tell.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: The mail room was like in the cafeteria and we're living on campus, 600 kids together, and she would like the first box she sent me.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: It was like the wrapping paper was my pictures off of facebook.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: So my photos, all kinds of weird photos all over the box and people like John, you have a gift.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: And then she mailed me a flip-flop, just a flip-flop.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the address mail me a beach ball.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you how this happened, though.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: You told me after I did the funny one with your faces.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Then you told me the mail gets delivered at lunchtime or whatever a mealtime everybody sees it.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: And then it was like like it got my evil genius and wheels turning.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: I was like how could I make more of a spectacle?
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: And then it turned into what can I buy at the dollar tree and slap a stamp on and a mailing address and mail.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I mailed you a kickboard what?
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: yes, yes I mailed you a bouncy ball.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: And, guys, when I say a little sticky, like a little suction cup bone hair, I think so the funny part of it, you guys, is I did not wrap this stuff I literally put the address and the stamp.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Important part on the ball.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I put the stamp on like I sharpied on the kickboard and then put the stamps and I remember when I did this, people like the male people were like tried to talk me out of it and I'm like no, no, you don't understand.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Worst case scenario gets broken in the way best case scenario.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: It makes it to him I am not wrapping this and then one time I got a boa and I like hot glued the boa around and like pearls because I was trying to embarrass you, then you can be embarrassed so then.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: But anyways, that kind of kick-started us mailing stuff to each other and then now it's transitioned to with the kids.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: If the kids do something cute or mandarin, or if John sends them something because you'll occasionally I think we both kind of casually will send gifts, maybe like two a year, like you'll send.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: He sent these body jewels once and then it's cute because then he casts vision for the kids why he got it for them.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's a helpful part is you explain their value, why you thought of them for the kids.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: It's almost like you give the backstory of the story and then you cast like a value.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: So I remember you told them when you send them the face gems you're like you can't use these casually.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: These are for special occasions and my kids go to art school so there's lots of dress up days, so that would be the special occasion and I was telling him that we just used the last of them a couple years later because John did such a good job when he gifted them to him like these are for special occasions.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Um so, and then that one Christmas he gave them like wigs that were rainbow color but like nice quality to their backs, like all the way almost to their butts, imagine like three foot of hair.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: And we still have them.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: They still were part of the Halloween costume.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: So I think your purposefulness and intentionality of explaining and thoughtfulness with gifts has been a way the kids feel connected, cause then when we get that back out, I retell the story of like why uncle John said that to it, so I think that's actually helped.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Um, and then I was saying with the kids like I'll send you letters.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: They write in Mandarin, or if you send them something, I have them write you a thank you note.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: So you have photos over the years, what?
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: else I save them all, all kinds.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I have old school work and drawings, oh yeah, one time the kids wrote um yeah, if there's something ridiculous or cute that the kids do at school, I'll just save it.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I have like a little spot in my and I'll like send it to john eventually, I think.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: The point is, though, again, I think, with the voice memos and then the mail, it's creative ways for us to stay connected even when, like our time, or we don't have like a solid phone time right or even like it's hard for us different areas and different lifestyles.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we have so many touch points yeah, any other thoughts that you have around, habits that we have for connection?
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, you did a great job of recapping those.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sure things will come up, but those are some that we have brainstormed on.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: And Now for Christmas this year, getting them the little wax seal stamps Rose and I my girlfriend and I got them Old-timey where you melt the wax and you pour it onto the envelope and you seal it down.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Kind of like a medieval time, and then he shows them how to do it.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: And so they're so excited.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like okay, so you can write us more letters, see, and I love that, see, and I love that.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Like his point, his gift had a point to it.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: So now the idea he sent them, he gave them envelopes and cards so that they could write him, more like almost encouraging the habits that produce connection.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: And then, another thing he did this Christmas.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Is he this Christmas, you like, you've even, I feel like we're more than Christmas past with your intentionality with gifts, which I would say that's probably something we do well with each other.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: We're not rigid of.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: You did this last year.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Now, this is the high mark for what gifts are, you know?
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Because realizing your capacity might shift, like two years ago when what?
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: like I haven't got Jenna anything for her birthday or Christmas but I think the idea of holding it open handed and counting it when either of us do show up for each other versus I think sometimes people can get like you missed it or you did this last year it's not this.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Um, so this year just recognizing like oh, there's been extra, so that was really sweet.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: And then he john's idea for my mom this year just giving him such props was mom, okay, you guys all children in the 90s have a bunch of vhs's with your childhood tapes.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: My mom had like six to eight hours.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: No, no, she has like 30 hours 30 hours.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what Okay.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: So last year we all chipped in to get them rendered from VHS.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: We sent him to a company on to a deep, what is it called?
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, beat.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: But John, today or this fall was like dude cost hundreds of dollars when you have that many.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, John was like be saved.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: So then there, then there, there are too many hours of videos to watch.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Each video is two hours and we have 15 or so of these different files and you're like, how do you?
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just too much.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: So I found a uh virtual assistant in pakistan through fifer and they uh, and I'm making video recaps.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: So I made two so far, one six minutes and one is nine minutes, and it's like from my birth to jenna's fourth birthday and christmas and holidays.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: It's genius, but this is how john works with his outside of the box, thinking he's like, okay, we now have 30 hours of video.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: That's actually not helpful too much.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: How can I get digestible bits from this?
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: So that was our gift for mom.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Is he got the?
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: He did all the work.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: He found the guy.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: He interviewed it.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: He was like how do you like these edits?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Does this music matter?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like that's great for me and then we were watching.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Then now we're putting them on youtube.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: So that's going to be a continual.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Her birthday's in february.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: We'll do the rest, pay for the rest of them to get rendered.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, for that gift as well.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: But I think even that gift will work for our dad too.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I know two parents, one video.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Good thing dad doesn't listen to this podcast we're giving away our cheap gifting secrets.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: But then last year we did, uh, we bought story worth, which was I had talked about how it gives up emails, your mom a prompt a month or, yeah, a week, and she writes about it.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: But then you were, you were collaborative about it.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: So I think, like last year, I carried the weight.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I had this idea and I was like literally here's the three ones I bookmarked that I'm interested in doing that way and.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: And we had like, again, we're such different people but we like think so similarly, which is a great gift.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: And then we got to go into Jenna's point and work on creating the questions.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: So, like, jenna made a bunch up front, they generated some, but then we could go through and change them, so we could just prompt my mom with different questions and it was so beautiful throughout the year to see what my mom would write and like the meaningful nuggets that we got to take away from it.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: That's so good.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Well, what I was going to say, though, is, I think, as we're talking, I think this is one of the keys that has helped our connection is being okay when our your capacity is lower or higher in different seasons, and not getting offended when it's lower or vice versa.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: So, like, there's points in the year that I didn't have the capacity to manage mom's questions, and you would follow up with me and be really kind, and I, finally, was like sorry, bro, this is important to me, but I don't have it.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: And then you'd carry it for a bit, and then, when I'd have more of it, I'd carry it where I think, sometimes again going back to the even or offense when it's not the same, or I'm carrying, or almost like self-pity, that the person's not your sibling's not showing up how you want, I think, this open-handed approach of when you have it, you'll give it.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: So, if I have the extra margin right now, I'm going to be the one like to give more than 50%, because I care about our connection more than I need it to be even or proof that you care.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and I'll do.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I'll fly across the world to go see you, but then also I'll send my friend, who doesn't believe in time, to pick you up from the airport, because I'm overwhelmed at that moment, and that's a good example of I had to choose.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: I remember being like I am over, I just did a really hard thing and my brother didn't come pick me up from the airport.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Like I feel a lot of things and I remember being like okay, if I choose.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I almost feel like sometimes offense and bitterness is a choice.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like if I choose to be offended right now, I'm going to actually miss out on connection.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Like it's going to block the connection I do have with my brother.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I can express maybe later, or be like hey, do you think?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I think actually one of our takeaways was at one point be like hey, if you can't pick me up, could you let me know I might actually opt to pay for an Uber next time because it was more socially awkward.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: More than one time.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: I'm flying back from Taiwan literally across the world and I got to San Francisco might have been Sacramento, but Jenna's two and a half to three and a half hours from that airport and they've always picked me up.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they've rented a car, but they've always picked me up and just traveled so hard.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: I get there I'm like where are you guys?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we're not coming to get you.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Something happened.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: We had to call.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we tried to communicate it wasn't communicate.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't receive the communication.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I was like what?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: So I go rent a car and drive and I'm like I totally understand that you problem, but I was surprised and now I'm sad and angry, but all I want to do is spend time with you yeah that's this whole thing, and I could totally you're a mom at that point, I imagine right it's like I totally, I'm always surprised when you pick me up anyway, so let's just let this go that's so good.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I think that is true.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: With that, we're honest with the pain, but we don't hold on to it.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: We work through it because we'd rather be connected than almost hold on to pain, which then feeds bitterness, offense, disconnect, yeah, walls Cause, I think that's the thing.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Our relationship and our sibling hood is not perfect, but we work through things and then forgive or talk about them and process to the point of I'd actually rather be connected.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: What you do have to offer then almost hold out for an idealism or for it to look this way or to not work that hard or decide I don't have something in this season to give our relationship Like no, actually work to stay connected with you.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: You're actually one of the.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever told you this, but one of the reasons we wanted three kids is because we only had you and me growing up.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: We don't have another sibling and I actually was like man.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I've enjoyed my brother so much.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: What would it have been like to have one more sibling?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Like what would this relational magic feeling I have have one more person to be pointed at, or like influx?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons that we had three kids actually is because I enjoyed you so much as a brother relationship.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: So what would your charge be to people who, for maintaining connection with their sibling, like?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: What would you say?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: You know, like Jenna is great right now at working on real strategic implemented habits and I am much more about my typical organic habits like flow you know what, what comes out naturally and to your point of kind of like the open handed part where it's like I want it and I identify, I wanted it, I want it.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: So how do I manifest that?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: How do I like act that out where it's like, whether it's gift giving when I'm passionate about it, or traveling to see or not traveling to see, or having the conversation to like lean into the organic part of it but have action with it.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Not just intention but implementation.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: That's good, that's really true.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: And then I would say the being okay when our lives look different, that it's not a blockade which we'll get into the next episode.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: For connection, I think like, okay, so we're not going to, you're not going to bring your suburban life and meet me at a suburban vacation somewhere, and it fill all of our needs.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: So what overlap can we have that we both compromise it as a win for both of us.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: So we were actually teasing like one of the things is when John comes to visit because he doesn't usually wake up before 1030.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: And that was a pain point for a few years because with little kids, all your moms out there, like they're ready to go and we've already come back to the house like done something, eaten breakfast, done something, and come back by the time John was waking up.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: And there was one or two visits where I felt like it really like they were kids, were sad or they'd wake John up and that was a bummer for him.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: So actually just talking about the things and being like solution oriented for what's a win-win versus I'm bummed that they do this or their lifestyle or how they live, doesn't work with how I live.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, like, what is a compromise to talk about?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: it for both of us, and I spent and I spent so much time with the kids during the day, so it feels great to be supported back.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, when I'm in my room, I can sleep and I can rest.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: So we have some boundaries the day I'm on it with the kids.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: It's so true.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: And then even like talking through, like hey, I did this last night, but I think I'm gonna not be involved with bedtime, I'm just gonna have some alone time.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I'm tapped, I'm like, okay, great, respecting that.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Or him opting out of like going to see lights with us being like yep, totally, I get it Like.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: So I think again, the open-handedness probably goes back to it.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Well, was going to be five minutes talking about all your exploits, but that was like maybe we're right when I told Rosie was going to be two hours, two hour tour.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I love you.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I love you too, so proud of you for doing this, and you've been such a teacher in my life and I love getting to collaborate and make things with you, um, so thanks for inviting me on today.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm glad you came to running into the podcast.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Bye bro.