Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Jodi Arias' Failed Attempt to Blame Nancy Grace For an Unfair Trial Leads to New Bid For Freedom

Transcript

Jodi Arias' Failed Attempt to Blame Nancy Grace For an Unfair Trial Leads to New Bid For Freedom · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:07
Speaker 2: Why won't she go away? I'm talking about convicted killer
0:13
Speaker 2: Jody Arius Oh, convicted in the brutal stab and death
0:19
Speaker 2: of her lover Travis Alexander, stabbing him twenty nine to
0:23
Speaker 2: thirty one times. There's an argument over that because there
0:26
Speaker 2: were so many stab wounds they began to overlap each other,
0:29
Speaker 2: and it's like stabbing Jillo. You can't really tell how
0:32
Speaker 2: many times somebody's been stabbed when they've been stabbed that
0:35
Speaker 2: many times, and then kept it off by shooting him
0:38
Speaker 2: in the head, leaving her lover to decompose in his
0:43
Speaker 2: own shower. Why even after the two had broken up,
0:48
Speaker 2: she travels across many states in secret to have a
0:53
Speaker 2: marathon sex session with him to convince him not to
0:57
Speaker 2: take the new woman he's dating on a trip to Cankun. Well,
1:02
Speaker 2: the sex marathon didn't work and he didn't cancel the
1:05
Speaker 2: date to can Kun. So what's the girl to do?
1:10
Speaker 3: Kill him as she did?
1:13
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
1:15
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. He has Jody Arius
1:18
Speaker 2: will not go away, and now she's set to launch,
1:21
Speaker 2: a of course, dramatic bid to be freed from prison
1:27
Speaker 2: after lover Travis. Alexander's brutal slang arias behind bars is
1:34
Speaker 2: hinted at a dramatic new legal strategy hoping to get
1:39
Speaker 2: her toe in the door to freedom after she was
1:43
Speaker 2: sentenced to life behind bars in a gruesome murder. Of course,
1:47
Speaker 2: she has her own substack, oh her and top mom.
1:52
Speaker 2: In a disturbing new post on the substack, she writes,
1:56
Speaker 2: one of her top priorities is pursuing r post conviction relief.
2:05
Speaker 2: It's a legal maneuver that allows inmates to challenge their
2:08
Speaker 2: convictions or sentences based on new evidence or constitutional violations. Okay, lady,
2:17
Speaker 2: bring it on, because we have got an avalanche of
2:23
Speaker 2: evidence that you murdered Travis. Joining me right now along
2:29
Speaker 2: with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder child Crimewatch dot com,
2:34
Speaker 2: doctor Brian Russell, host of investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows,
2:39
Speaker 2: renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark. Alexis Terreschuk joining me
2:44
Speaker 2: from RadarOnline dot com. Alexis why won't she go away?
2:48
Speaker 4: Because she can't. She craves the attention of everybody. She
2:52
Speaker 4: says that she wants to just do good behind bars.
2:55
Speaker 4: But she doesn't. She still runs a Twitter account. She
2:57
Speaker 4: still writes to her fans she cannot live outside of
3:01
Speaker 4: the spotlight.
3:01
Speaker 2: Let's go back in the courtroom. What happened to Alexis?
3:05
Speaker 4: Jody Arius created a circus in the courtroom when she
3:08
Speaker 4: took the stand. Everybody was stunned. I was, I know
3:12
Speaker 4: you were. And she was on there for days spinning
3:16
Speaker 4: her lies about Travis Alexander.
3:18
Speaker 2: Alexis, what can you tell me about Travis Alexander in life?
3:22
Speaker 3: What was he like?
3:24
Speaker 4: Travis was the nicest guy. He was a Mormon, the
3:30
Speaker 4: religion that he had committed himself to as he was older,
3:33
Speaker 4: and he was full of life. He had so many friends.
3:37
Speaker 4: He was a respected business guy. He was the one
3:40
Speaker 4: who had the whole house and had all the roommates.
3:42
Speaker 4: So everybody depended on Travis take care of them, and
3:45
Speaker 4: that's what he did. He took care of everybody. He
3:47
Speaker 4: was funny, he was adventurous. He was always going on
3:49
Speaker 4: trips and in fact, when he and Jody started dating,
3:51
Speaker 4: they went on a live of trips together, fun trips
3:54
Speaker 4: to waterfalls and to San Diego, lots of places. He
3:59
Speaker 4: was an up and coming entrepreneur. He had his own
4:02
Speaker 4: he was running his own business through the organization, and
4:05
Speaker 4: he was really climbing up in the company because people
4:07
Speaker 4: loved him. He had a quick smile. His sister just
4:10
Speaker 4: said he was the nicest guy you would ever meet.
4:12
Speaker 4: Everybody that met him said he was so nice. And
4:15
Speaker 4: he was also struggling with his religion. He wanted to
4:19
Speaker 4: follow Lieutenant s sterctly, but he also, like any other
4:23
Speaker 4: young person in their late twenties early thirties, you know,
4:25
Speaker 4: he wanted to have sex with his girlfriend.
4:27
Speaker 2: It's interesting and I'm going to go to Kieran Stark
4:29
Speaker 2: on this in a moment. But all of his friends
4:32
Speaker 2: and family that knew her did not want him to
4:35
Speaker 2: be with her. And I've questioned them about that repeatedly,
4:39
Speaker 2: saying what was it about her? And they all said,
4:42
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was just a freaky, hinky feeling.
4:45
Speaker 2: She was just we just thought she was weird and crazy.
4:50
Speaker 2: There was just something about her. Doctor Brian Russell, She's
4:53
Speaker 2: many people believe beautiful. She got a beautiful face. Many
4:57
Speaker 2: people think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find
5:00
Speaker 2: her beautiful, but many people do. She's got tons of
5:02
Speaker 2: people writing her and sending her money behind bars. The
5:06
Speaker 2: thing is when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the
5:10
Speaker 2: time was a devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jody Arius.
5:14
Speaker 3: At some point he wanted to break it off.
5:18
Speaker 2: He said things like he did not think they would
5:21
Speaker 2: ever get married, he wanted to start dating other people.
5:24
Speaker 2: She would have none of it. So she finds out
5:28
Speaker 2: he's going on a trip to Cozaml with another woman,
5:31
Speaker 2: and that just throws her into a fit. Drives literally
5:35
Speaker 2: across the desert. She's moved away with all the gas
5:39
Speaker 2: cans in her trunk so she doesn't have to stop
5:41
Speaker 2: to use her credit card or be on a surveillance
5:43
Speaker 2: video at a seven to eleven, gets to his home.
5:46
Speaker 2: They have crazy fetish sex all day, complete with photos which.
5:51
Speaker 3: Were played over and over and over at trial.
5:54
Speaker 2: And then he still refuses to cancel the Cosaml date,
5:59
Speaker 2: and when that happens, she stabs him twenty nine times
6:03
Speaker 2: and shoots him in the head, leaving his body to
6:06
Speaker 2: decompose in the shower. Help me out, Dr Brian Russell.
6:09
Speaker 5: I'm glad you just gave that rundown, Nancy, because you know,
6:12
Speaker 5: if she said she'd killed him while he was beating her,
6:15
Speaker 5: there'd be a self defense argument, but physical evidence from
6:18
Speaker 5: the scene clearly suggested that didn't happen that way. I
6:21
Speaker 5: never saw solid evidence that he'd ever beaten her.
6:24
Speaker 3: Let's just look at the facts.
6:25
Speaker 2: As you accurately point out Dr Brian Russell, there were
6:28
Speaker 2: many ways if it were indeed true, which no one
6:31
Speaker 2: but Arias says.
6:32
Speaker 3: It's true. They were broken up.
6:34
Speaker 2: She had moved away, hours away.
6:38
Speaker 3: They were not living together. They were never married, they never.
6:41
Speaker 2: Had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up,
6:45
Speaker 2: she moved away, scorned, she left. She was living somewhere else,
6:50
Speaker 2: had a brandy place to live, had a car, a job,
6:53
Speaker 2: the works, and they'd been apart for a while. As
6:56
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I'm reading directly from the Aufe
7:00
Speaker 2: Topsy report. Travis Alexander's jugular vein his throat was slit,
7:06
Speaker 2: the common carotid artery, the trachea had been slashed. He
7:11
Speaker 2: had defensive wounds on his hand. He may have even
7:14
Speaker 2: been dead at the time she shot him in the head. Also,
7:19
Speaker 2: the crime scene revealed that when he first was stabbed,
7:23
Speaker 2: he realized he was dying. He stumbled to the bathroom
7:27
Speaker 2: mirror and actually looked in the mirror as he was dying.
7:32
Speaker 2: And we know this because of the blood evidence. There
7:36
Speaker 2: were drops, not spatter, not throwback, not transfer, drops of
7:44
Speaker 2: blood that dropped down from his neck and his nose
7:48
Speaker 2: and his face onto the sink as he looked into
7:53
Speaker 2: the mirror as he died, and he was left naked
7:58
Speaker 2: and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter
8:03
Speaker 2: of fact, it's really not even contested how he died.
8:07
Speaker 2: Listened to Jody Arius at trial admitting she slit his throat.
8:13
Speaker 6: Would you agree that you're the person who actually slid
8:17
Speaker 6: mister Alexander's throat from ear to ear?
8:24
Speaker 2: Yes, to Ashley Wilcott, veteran trial lawyer and judge, it
8:32
Speaker 2: gives me no pleasure to replay the rendition of how
8:37
Speaker 2: Chavick Alexander was murdered. He didn't see it coming, He
8:41
Speaker 2: had no idea what was about to happen. But we
8:45
Speaker 2: also know Ashley that at the beginning she claimed that
8:49
Speaker 2: she wasn't there, she had nothing to do with it
8:52
Speaker 2: at all. Then when evidence turned up that she had
8:55
Speaker 2: been there, she actually claimed that Ninja's showed up all
9:01
Speaker 2: dressed in black and for no reason burst into the home,
9:05
Speaker 2: stole nothing. She ran and saved her own life, but
9:09
Speaker 2: they killed Travis and left like shadows in the night.
9:12
Speaker 3: I mean, Ashley, really right?
9:15
Speaker 7: Really?
9:15
Speaker 8: So she was lying from the gig go obviously with
9:18
Speaker 8: the story that she initially told with the ninjas. But
9:21
Speaker 8: here's what I love about our justice system. During this trial,
9:25
Speaker 8: it went from story to story to story to story.
9:27
Speaker 8: But as you just played, finally on the stand under oath,
9:31
Speaker 8: she admits she slit his throat period.
9:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like this and just like that, and
9:39
Speaker 2: then shot him. Cleaned up the scene as best she could,
9:43
Speaker 2: put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her
9:47
Speaker 2: digital camera. Hello, and on the camera to Karen Stark
9:54
Speaker 2: were actual photos. She had been taking sex photos the
9:58
Speaker 2: whole day. But forget about that. On the digital camera
10:04
Speaker 2: that she left in the washing machine, our photos exit
10:08
Speaker 2: we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Starr, New
10:14
Speaker 2: York psychologist, what about that This is.
10:17
Speaker 9: A person who really is not only a pathological liar,
10:23
Speaker 9: but has absolutely no guilt about anything that happened and
10:27
Speaker 9: documented it as.
10:29
Speaker 10: It was happening. Now, even if it was accidental somehow
10:32
Speaker 10: she knew that she should wash things up, clean them up,
10:36
Speaker 10: despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying, And she
10:39
Speaker 10: very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There
10:44
Speaker 10: is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly
10:46
Speaker 10: what she was doing, and that it had to do
10:49
Speaker 10: with rage and jealousy and her inability to let go.
10:53
Speaker 2: Of this man. Alexistereschuk, writeronline dot com. You also covered
10:57
Speaker 2: the case every single day. I was in the courtroom
11:00
Speaker 2: almost every day and was broadcasting from a couple of
11:04
Speaker 2: blocks away from the courthouse. The digital camera evidence, to me,
11:08
Speaker 2: is overwhelming. It places her there at the time of
11:11
Speaker 2: the murder, in the room with Travis.
11:14
Speaker 3: It does it's.
11:15
Speaker 11: Right up to and after she murders him. There are
11:18
Speaker 11: pictures of him naked in the shower and got the
11:21
Speaker 11: water running over him. He's looking directly at the camera.
11:24
Speaker 11: These were not secret photos that he didn't know are
11:26
Speaker 11: being taken. Then there's the picture of his foot in
11:30
Speaker 11: the shower, and there's another picture of the blood on
11:32
Speaker 11: the floor, and they're taking there's a timestamp, so you
11:34
Speaker 11: can tell that they were taken just moments, literally less
11:39
Speaker 11: than two minutes after he was alive in the shower,
11:41
Speaker 11: she's taking pictures, and then he's dead when she went
11:44
Speaker 11: into her frenzy, her spree killing spree, and stabbed him repeatedly.
11:49
Speaker 1: And the thing was, she.
11:51
Speaker 11: Also shot him, but the bullet casing was found on
11:55
Speaker 11: top of the blood. So what the evidence was presented
11:58
Speaker 11: in court is that there's no way she should him first,
12:00
Speaker 11: otherwise that would be on the bottom and be covered
12:02
Speaker 11: with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed, And
12:05
Speaker 11: this is everything that was shown on her camera. She
12:07
Speaker 11: didn't even take the camera with her. She's stuck it
12:09
Speaker 11: in the washing machine.
12:10
Speaker 1: She left it there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
12:23
Speaker 2: In the last Days, we learned convict the Killer Jody
12:26
Speaker 2: Arius is set to launch a dramatic bid to be
12:30
Speaker 2: freed after being convicted and her lover Travis Alexander's horrible,
12:36
Speaker 2: horrible murder. It's called a PCR Post Conviction Relief petition,
12:45
Speaker 2: possibly her most serious legal action since the end of
12:48
Speaker 2: her trial and definitely a Hail Mary, a last ditch
12:52
Speaker 2: try to overturn her conviction. Did I leave out the
12:56
Speaker 2: part that his throat was cut so deeply the life
13:00
Speaker 2: almost reached his spinal cord, much like Nicole Brown's areas
13:07
Speaker 2: changed her story so many times. She ultimately went with
13:10
Speaker 2: self defense after claiming she wasn't there, then claiming that
13:14
Speaker 2: she was there and Ninja's broke in and murder Travis
13:19
Speaker 2: and she miraculously got away to she did it, but
13:23
Speaker 2: it was in self defense. Okay. She was sentenced to
13:27
Speaker 2: life behind bars without the possibility of parole, and now
13:33
Speaker 2: this in her substact post, Arias claims she's been quote
13:39
Speaker 2: misunderstood and over sexualized since her trial. Wow, I wonder
13:45
Speaker 2: whose fault that was. What do we know about Jody
13:49
Speaker 2: Arias to Alexis Treschuk, Alexis, exactly where is Jody Arias housed?
13:57
Speaker 2: Has she been moved? What's the name for her correctional facility?
14:02
Speaker 2: And what do we know specifically about security there? Is
14:06
Speaker 2: it a pod? Does she have a roommate cad? She
14:08
Speaker 2: decorate her cell like a dorm room.
14:11
Speaker 4: So she is in the Perryville Prison. She has not
14:14
Speaker 4: been moved. She entered there in twenty fifteen April thirteenth,
14:18
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen, so she has been there just over four years.
14:21
Speaker 4: It is a very standard twelve nine seven cell I
14:25
Speaker 4: believe with a bed and a sink. She does not
14:29
Speaker 4: have a roommate because it is a maximum security she
14:32
Speaker 4: was convicted of murder in the first degree. She is classified.
14:36
Speaker 4: She cannot have any movement, and she's had a review
14:39
Speaker 4: every year since she's been there to maybe lower down
14:43
Speaker 4: the classification level of her risk assessment. Never been lowered.
14:47
Speaker 4: It's gone from a five to a four, which is
14:50
Speaker 4: nothing at all. She's still in a maximum security prison.
14:53
Speaker 4: She does not have a lot of freedom or free
14:56
Speaker 4: free will to walk around to see other people. She
14:58
Speaker 4: did a lot of herself, but she's can decorate her
15:01
Speaker 4: cell and she also has a television and she is
15:03
Speaker 4: able to watch TV and she watches it NonStop. And
15:06
Speaker 4: she spends most of her time in solitary confinement. That's
15:08
Speaker 4: the way this prison is designed in Arizona. It's a
15:11
Speaker 4: pretty harsh prison for the worst of the killers in
15:14
Speaker 4: the state. But she also has a job behind bars.
15:19
Speaker 4: She has been working in the library, who works over
15:23
Speaker 4: forty hours a week, but she makes a whopping forty
15:26
Speaker 4: cents an hour.
15:27
Speaker 2: Alex says, what can you tell me about Jody Arius's
15:30
Speaker 2: life behind bars?
15:31
Speaker 3: Is it true?
15:32
Speaker 2: She has dozens of love letters a day. Did nobody
15:37
Speaker 2: see Travis Alexander's decomposing body in the shower? No matter
15:41
Speaker 2: how many times I played it on HLN?
15:43
Speaker 1: What men is right mind.
15:45
Speaker 2: Would seek out Jody Arius? What do they want to
15:48
Speaker 2: be with a killer? Or do they think she's innocent?
15:51
Speaker 4: These people out there, these men are just bamboozled by
15:55
Speaker 4: her hair. Used to be she used to be this
15:57
Speaker 4: bleached blond, really bucksome girl. Now time bars she has
16:01
Speaker 4: her natural brown hair, it's probably gray at this point,
16:04
Speaker 4: and they write her obsessively. She even has said, I
16:08
Speaker 4: cannot even respond to everybody who writes to me because
16:11
Speaker 4: I got so many fan letters a day, dozens of them.
16:13
Speaker 4: She has all the things that she buys from the
16:15
Speaker 4: commentsary in there, so she buys tons and tons of
16:18
Speaker 4: paper and envelopes so she can write to all of
16:20
Speaker 4: her fans. And that people tell her they love her,
16:23
Speaker 4: and they believe that she's innocent and that she's going
16:25
Speaker 4: to get out, and then when she gets out that
16:26
Speaker 4: they're going to maybe even get together with her. They
16:29
Speaker 4: are just fans, Alexis.
16:31
Speaker 2: How do you know she's getting all these love letters?
16:33
Speaker 4: The prison has confirmed to us that she receives multiple letters,
16:37
Speaker 4: and then she runs a Twitter account through a friend,
16:40
Speaker 4: and that friend posts that people write to her all
16:43
Speaker 4: the time.
16:44
Speaker 2: Are these men sending her money? Are they insane?
16:48
Speaker 4: Yes, people send her so much money they send her
16:52
Speaker 4: They have to send it through the prison system, but
16:53
Speaker 4: they have it because she has a huge fat account
16:57
Speaker 4: in the jail commissary.
16:59
Speaker 2: Okay, So if they're sending her money, alexis Teresha, what
17:02
Speaker 2: is she doing with it?
17:03
Speaker 1: I mean, what's there to spend it on? Behind bars?
17:06
Speaker 4: She is spending all of her money at the commissary
17:10
Speaker 4: on a variety of things. But the thing that struck
17:12
Speaker 4: me the most is that she's buying toothbrushes, which Teresa
17:18
Speaker 4: Judais told us that she learned when she was in
17:21
Speaker 4: prison that that can be used as a sex toy.
17:23
Speaker 4: Behind bars, she shops relentlessly at the canteen. She buys
17:27
Speaker 4: him sardines, she buys Dorito's, she buys pudding, she buys desserts,
17:33
Speaker 4: she buys cookies, shelfif buys Emo, which you know, can
17:37
Speaker 4: treat her stomach problems. She buys pretzels, cookies, crackers, any
17:43
Speaker 4: sort of junk food that is on there.
17:46
Speaker 2: Jody is buying it Alexis I understand that she's treated
17:49
Speaker 2: like a celebrity behind bars. What does that entail?
17:52
Speaker 4: She is quite popular behind bars. She is the one
17:57
Speaker 4: that everybody goes to. She well. She claims that she
17:59
Speaker 4: gives people. She buys things from the commentsary to give
18:02
Speaker 4: to other people. The people behind bars are not as
18:04
Speaker 4: lucky as she is. But there has been other inmates
18:07
Speaker 4: who are also lost up the same prison. Who ever
18:09
Speaker 4: reveals that people get invites with Jody and that she's
18:13
Speaker 4: often mouthing off in the shared courtyard.
18:17
Speaker 2: Is it true that she has privileges to get on
18:22
Speaker 2: the internet, and if so, write the lovelorn men that
18:25
Speaker 2: are contacting her.
18:26
Speaker 4: She does go the library. She actually works in the library.
18:29
Speaker 4: She is a library aid and she has said that
18:32
Speaker 4: the library books in this prison are just terrible. So
18:35
Speaker 4: she's asked people. She started book drives behind bars to
18:38
Speaker 4: ask people to send things that people would want to read.
18:41
Speaker 4: But the prison is very strict about what you can get,
18:43
Speaker 4: and so there are many mostly religious books and probably
18:47
Speaker 4: what you would call smut books, you know, romance books.
18:50
Speaker 4: She does not have access to the internet, but she
18:54
Speaker 4: speaks with folks on the outside that do have access
18:57
Speaker 4: to the Internet, so that's how she keeps in touch
18:59
Speaker 4: with everybody through her Twitter account and the love letter.
19:03
Speaker 4: She could write as many as she wants, and she
19:05
Speaker 4: just has to buy stamps. But she has basically unlimited
19:08
Speaker 4: funds in her account, so she is able to buy
19:12
Speaker 4: the stamps to send letters back to everybody that writes
19:14
Speaker 4: to her. But she has often said I can't write
19:16
Speaker 4: to everybody, as if she has anything else to do.
19:18
Speaker 2: Unless Terreschuk, what can you tell me about claims that
19:22
Speaker 2: she gets privileges behind bars.
19:25
Speaker 4: Jody Arius does not get any special privileges behind bars,
19:28
Speaker 4: but because she cannot behave. In fact, she was disciplined
19:31
Speaker 4: within her first couple of months of being there. She
19:34
Speaker 4: yelled at a guard and called the guard a cup
19:37
Speaker 4: blocker because he wouldn't let her get a haircut that
19:39
Speaker 4: she wanted, even though she had no privileges to get
19:41
Speaker 4: a haircut. And then when she was disciplined, she said, oh,
19:44
Speaker 4: I didn't know that that word was a bad word.
19:46
Speaker 4: I just looked it up in the airban dictionary. So
19:48
Speaker 4: she was just fun for months on end. She lost
19:50
Speaker 4: her visitation privileges.
19:51
Speaker 2: I understand that Jodie Arius perceives herself to be quite
19:55
Speaker 2: the artiste, okay, and she could be selling her art online.
20:01
Speaker 1: Is that true?
20:02
Speaker 2: Let me say, is that still true? Because I've seen
20:05
Speaker 2: some of it. To me, it looks like she's just
20:07
Speaker 2: tracing pictures out of magazines, but that I'm no art critic, Alexis.
20:11
Speaker 3: You tell me.
20:13
Speaker 4: Jody Arius was drawing so many pieces of art, and
20:17
Speaker 4: you are right, they did look like she traced things
20:19
Speaker 4: because it was such an exact copy of things for magazines, ads,
20:24
Speaker 4: and even in one picture everybody thought it was just
20:26
Speaker 4: like Travis Alexander's sister, which was so disrespectful. But since
20:29
Speaker 4: she has been in this prison, she's not allowed to
20:32
Speaker 4: sell it or profit all of this, but she is
20:35
Speaker 4: sending people her artwork and it's on her website from before,
20:39
Speaker 4: so if people wanted to go check that out. Jodyarius
20:42
Speaker 4: dot com has our art.
20:44
Speaker 2: Disgusting to doctor Bethany Marshall. Psycho Alan's joining me out
20:49
Speaker 2: of la doctor Bethany behind bars. She's somewhat of a celebrity.
20:53
Speaker 2: She gets hundreds of love letters, people put money in
20:57
Speaker 2: her commissary account. She quote draws quote in other words,
21:02
Speaker 2: traces other drawings and then sells them It's quite the life.
21:08
Speaker 2: Quite the life. Doctor Bethany explained, how is she still
21:12
Speaker 2: manipulating people from.
21:13
Speaker 12: She's highly manipulative.
21:15
Speaker 13: You know, I was thinking about borderline personality disorder as
21:18
Speaker 13: you were talking to an Alexis. She definitely has borderline
21:22
Speaker 13: personality disorder and I actually was looking it up in
21:25
Speaker 13: the DSM five, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
21:29
Speaker 13: of mental disorders, and one of the characteristics is intense,
21:33
Speaker 13: unstable and conflicted close relationships marked by mistrust, neediness, and
21:39
Speaker 13: anxious preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment. Close relationships often
21:45
Speaker 13: viewed in extremes of idealization and devaluation, alternating between overinvolvement
21:52
Speaker 13: and withdrawal. And I can see that in her relationship
21:56
Speaker 13: with Travis Alexander, that it started with the idealization and
22:00
Speaker 13: then it went through.
22:01
Speaker 12: To the devaluation.
22:03
Speaker 13: The idealization is when he was dating her, right when
22:06
Speaker 13: they were together, when they were going out, and then
22:09
Speaker 13: do you remember that she found out that he was planning.
22:12
Speaker 12: A vacation with another woman.
22:14
Speaker 13: Then it went from the idealization to the devaluation, and
22:18
Speaker 13: that's when she started to plot her revenge.
22:21
Speaker 2: Alexis Terrestchuck investigative reporter and journalist Alexis, You and I
22:25
Speaker 2: covered the Areas murder trial together, as well as the
22:28
Speaker 2: death penalty phase. For those who don't know about Jody
22:33
Speaker 2: Arius and her murder conviction, please explain what happened to
22:37
Speaker 2: Travis Alexander when.
22:39
Speaker 1: He tried to break up with her.
22:41
Speaker 11: She plotted his murder, lured him in, you know, went
22:46
Speaker 11: down to his house in Arizona, but it took her
22:49
Speaker 11: four days to get there. She stopped along the way
22:51
Speaker 11: to buy a bunch of things that she was going
22:53
Speaker 11: to use where she ended up slaughtering him. She attacked
22:57
Speaker 11: him while he was in the.
22:58
Speaker 2: Shit a minute though, Alexis, hold on, hold on, you're
23:01
Speaker 2: skipping some good stuff. Because when she travels, you know,
23:06
Speaker 2: I don't know how many hundreds of miles to go
23:09
Speaker 2: murder him. She did not want to leave a trail
23:12
Speaker 2: describe at Alexis.
23:13
Speaker 4: So she rented a car in northern California, about sixty
23:17
Speaker 4: miles away from her house so nobody would recognize her.
23:19
Speaker 4: She first, they gave her a red car. She said,
23:21
Speaker 4: I don't want a red car. That's too noticeable. I
23:24
Speaker 4: want something different because she didn't want the cops to
23:26
Speaker 4: see her. She then hit out with a boyfriend in
23:30
Speaker 4: another town. She dyed her hair back to its natural
23:33
Speaker 4: brunette from the bleach blonde she's been sporting. She then
23:37
Speaker 4: bought a gas can, had multiple gas cans in her car,
23:40
Speaker 4: filled them up with gas, not using a credit card,
23:43
Speaker 4: so that she couldn't be traced, and then trekked across
23:46
Speaker 4: the desert, hiding when she was so she couldn't be
23:50
Speaker 4: stopped anywhere and had no record of her being near Travis.
23:53
Speaker 2: Now, I don't recall that he knew she was coming.
23:57
Speaker 11: They'd had a couple of phone calls. She had called
24:00
Speaker 11: him repeatedly, but once she entered the area near his house,
24:07
Speaker 11: she turned off her phone and did not turn it
24:10
Speaker 11: back on until hours after she murdered him, to hide
24:14
Speaker 11: the fact that she was even at his house.
24:17
Speaker 1: She was very devious.
24:18
Speaker 11: She knew exactly what to do to try to cover
24:21
Speaker 11: her trap.
24:22
Speaker 2: What do you think was the motive of Lexis and why.
24:24
Speaker 4: Jody Arius was jealous that Travis Alexander had moved on.
24:27
Speaker 4: He didn't want to date her anymore, He did not
24:29
Speaker 4: want to be her boyfriend, and he was actually even
24:31
Speaker 4: going on a trip down to Cancun with another girl,
24:34
Speaker 4: and it was a company trip and she had worked
24:36
Speaker 4: for this company, so she was humiliated. But she was
24:39
Speaker 4: filled with rage because he wouldn't be her boyfriend and
24:42
Speaker 4: he didn't love her, and he treated her like she
24:45
Speaker 4: felt like trash. They had sex, he didn't care, he
24:48
Speaker 4: lied about it because he was a Mormon, and he
24:51
Speaker 4: moved on and she could never move on. And she thought,
24:53
Speaker 4: if I can't have him, no one else will.
24:55
Speaker 2: She literally left Travis Alexander's home with blood on her hands, Okay,
25:01
Speaker 2: blood on her hands, drives for hours to get to
25:04
Speaker 2: her next boyfriend and literally hops on top of him
25:07
Speaker 2: and straddles him. Wow, she didn't waste any time.
25:11
Speaker 4: She did not at all. Twenty seven hours in the
25:15
Speaker 4: car whatever it was with her gun that she had
25:19
Speaker 4: brought the police. Her parents, her grandparents who she lived with,
25:22
Speaker 4: had had a break in, and surprisingly the only thing
25:24
Speaker 4: stolen was the gun, which is the same caliber of
25:27
Speaker 4: gun that was used to shoe.
25:28
Speaker 2: Travis Alexis the fact that they were part of the
25:32
Speaker 2: Mormon religion seemed to h It was like a curiosity
25:37
Speaker 2: to so many people. Why is that?
25:40
Speaker 11: I think it's because the Mormon religion is not as
25:42
Speaker 11: familiar to people across the country as other religions, the Christianity, and.
25:48
Speaker 2: So people tend to have thought of it as a cult.
25:52
Speaker 11: And so they saw that there was this what many
25:54
Speaker 11: people called, you know, ritualistic murder, which it wasn't. It
25:57
Speaker 11: was just Jody going crazy and murdering somebody, and they
26:00
Speaker 11: tied it into this church.
26:01
Speaker 1: But also because there were visual.
26:02
Speaker 12: Images of it.
26:04
Speaker 11: When Jody met Travis, he was a very well respected
26:07
Speaker 11: member of the church, and he brought her into the
26:09
Speaker 11: church and she was baptized and became a member of
26:12
Speaker 11: the church. So there was a photograph of her baptism,
26:14
Speaker 11: and so when people have visual images of things they
26:17
Speaker 11: can see, it makes it so much more compelling. And
26:19
Speaker 11: then she dragged in the fact that after she got baptized,
26:23
Speaker 11: I think she said that she and Travis had sex.
26:27
Speaker 11: And I'm not sure what kind of sex I'm allowed
26:29
Speaker 11: to say on your show, So.
26:30
Speaker 2: Let's just say not the regular sex, and in Sun
26:32
Speaker 2: States are still considered sodomy.
26:34
Speaker 11: Go ahead, So so it just made it so much
26:38
Speaker 11: more selectious. And Travis was such an upstanding member of
26:41
Speaker 11: this church, and people loved him and he was such
26:44
Speaker 11: a good person, and so she joined the church only
26:47
Speaker 11: because of him, and in fact, after she was convicted,
26:50
Speaker 11: church kicked her out.
26:51
Speaker 12: Excommunicated her and said they did not want her in.
26:54
Speaker 2: Unle Sisterschuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline dot Com. I understand
26:59
Speaker 2: that the murderer is mounting an appeal. What's that all about?
27:06
Speaker 4: So, yes, she has filed an appeal, She has her attorneys,
27:09
Speaker 4: and she has a slew of complaints. She says she
27:14
Speaker 4: blames her first attorney, Kirk Nurmi, for inappropriate actions with her,
27:22
Speaker 4: saying that's the way that he spoke to the jury
27:25
Speaker 4: about her, saying at the closing arguments nine out of
27:28
Speaker 4: ten days, I hate Jodiris too, But just because you
27:30
Speaker 4: hate her doesn't mean she's guilty. And she said that
27:33
Speaker 4: the fact that he wrote a book compromised her legal advice,
27:37
Speaker 4: and she wants the appeals court to overturn her conviction
27:40
Speaker 4: because she has a bad lawyer. She had a bad lawyer.
27:44
Speaker 4: She also says that the prosecutor acted inappropriately, which I
27:49
Speaker 4: believe he's been investigated in no charges or actions have
27:52
Speaker 4: been taken against him, and she just wants every season
27:55
Speaker 4: of the books to get out of the fact that
27:57
Speaker 4: she not only murdered her boyfriend but confessed to it
28:00
Speaker 4: on the stand.
28:01
Speaker 2: Take a listen to what the jury heard.
28:05
Speaker 6: And you're doing all of this too, And according to
28:08
Speaker 6: your version of events, you're doing this that as individital
28:14
Speaker 6: after you have already.
28:15
Speaker 2: Shocking right, he is.
28:23
Speaker 12: Correct, I believe.
28:26
Speaker 13: No.
28:27
Speaker 6: Do you remember previously talking to us about how he
28:30
Speaker 6: was coming at you and he was this horrible man
28:32
Speaker 6: with his mean face. Do you remember telling me that, Yes,
28:36
Speaker 6: I didn't say he was okay, thank you for correcting me.
28:40
Speaker 6: But do you remember telling us that he was a
28:42
Speaker 6: mean man?
28:45
Speaker 12: Not today, well, previously.
28:48
Speaker 6: Previously you did say that he was a meaning correct.
28:51
Speaker 1: I think I did, yes, And on this.
28:53
Speaker 6: Particular occasion, you told us that he was cursing at you, right,
28:59
Speaker 6: and that he threw you down right, Yes, that he
29:03
Speaker 6: chased you down right. Yes, and this is the individual
29:10
Speaker 6: that you shot.
29:11
Speaker 2: First, right. I had no if I shot him and
29:14
Speaker 2: just feel off.
29:18
Speaker 6: The gun went off, right, you could at least sacknoledge that, yes,
29:22
Speaker 6: that's something that you did.
29:23
Speaker 14: Hear.
29:24
Speaker 2: Yes.
29:30
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
29:37
Speaker 2: Jody Arias will not go away no matter what she claims,
29:43
Speaker 2: she has had her rights violated, and she has resorted
29:47
Speaker 2: to a PCR post conviction relief petition. This although she
29:51
Speaker 2: has already attempted to appeal her verdict, trying to get
29:56
Speaker 2: her conviction reversed overturned. Are you the prosecutor had egregious
30:03
Speaker 2: and self promoting misconduct that tanned the trial? Well, nobody
30:06
Speaker 2: agreed with that. The appellate court there in Arizona, the
30:10
Speaker 2: Arizona Court of Appeals cited quote overwhelming evidence of guilt.
30:16
Speaker 2: Then the Arizona Supreme Court declined to review the Court
30:21
Speaker 2: of Appeals decision. Now Arius is trying to hail Mary,
30:28
Speaker 2: convicted of murdering her lover, stabbing him twenty six times,
30:35
Speaker 2: leaving his dead body slumped over in the shower, shooting
30:39
Speaker 2: him in the head. I remember the shocking scenario that
30:43
Speaker 2: was proven by physical evidence unrefuted, that he was standing
30:49
Speaker 2: at his bathroom mirror and blood was dripping down and
30:54
Speaker 2: he saw himself dying. I remember it like it was
31:00
Speaker 2: yesterday for me. It's a memory for his family, it's
31:04
Speaker 2: never ending pain.
31:07
Speaker 3: Today.
31:07
Speaker 2: Our thoughts with the family of Travis Alexander and a
31:11
Speaker 2: life cut short I think about them so often. How
31:17
Speaker 2: are they doing now?
31:18
Speaker 4: They are doing well with their lives. They were devastated
31:21
Speaker 4: when Travis was killed by Jody and even more crushed
31:25
Speaker 4: by the antics that she pulled in the courtroom and
31:28
Speaker 4: with all of her interviews and trying to say that
31:31
Speaker 4: he was a child molester and really drag him through
31:34
Speaker 4: the mud. But they celebrate his life. However, Jody needles
31:39
Speaker 4: them relentlessly whenever she has to send them a check,
31:42
Speaker 4: a restitution check, it just brings back the reminder of
31:45
Speaker 4: how upset they were and how terrible she is. And
31:48
Speaker 4: she has this miserable little job where she makes forty
31:51
Speaker 4: cents an hour, and so she sends them a five
31:53
Speaker 4: hundred dollars check here and there, and it just is
31:55
Speaker 4: a reminder of how she is still alive and their
31:58
Speaker 4: beloved Travis is not.
31:59
Speaker 2: The defense Kirk Nurmi who tried over and over and
32:02
Speaker 2: over to get off this case. How is Kirk Nurmi
32:05
Speaker 2: doing now.
32:06
Speaker 4: Kirk had a tough time after the trial. He was
32:09
Speaker 4: diagnosed with cancer and he has said repeatedly he told me,
32:12
Speaker 4: I'm sure he told you that he believes working with
32:15
Speaker 4: Jody arius exacerbated his cancer caused him to have cancer.
32:19
Speaker 4: It was so stressful. He hated her. He felt like
32:22
Speaker 4: she was the worst client he's ever had. He did
32:24
Speaker 4: try to get off the case, repeatedly begged the judges
32:26
Speaker 4: to let them let him go, and he wouldn't. But
32:30
Speaker 4: he has said I gave her a great defense. She
32:33
Speaker 4: admitted she killed her boyfriend, she murdered him, and I
32:37
Speaker 4: protected her from the death penalty. So she should be
32:40
Speaker 4: very thankful because she would have gotten the death penalty
32:42
Speaker 4: if it wasn't for me.
32:43
Speaker 2: I was thinking about all those phone sex tapes. Take
32:46
Speaker 2: a listen to this.
32:47
Speaker 14: You are right.
32:52
Speaker 4: Oh, and we took a bath together. That was That
32:56
Speaker 4: was surreal as honestly, and I think, I mean maybe
33:00
Speaker 4: candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it.
33:02
Speaker 4: But you are amazing. You made me, seriously, you made
33:08
Speaker 4: me feel like a goddess.
33:10
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't saying you were like.
33:12
Speaker 12: Worshiping me, but you were.
33:14
Speaker 7: You made me feel like.
33:15
Speaker 9: I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet.
33:21
Speaker 7: Like I so felt like I was the goddess.
33:25
Speaker 4: And so aside from all.
33:27
Speaker 9: Those warmsuzzy feelings, but like it was, it was so
33:30
Speaker 9: sexy and it was so hot and oh.
33:33
Speaker 14: Gosh, oh well that I wasn't hard to freaking maybe
33:42
Speaker 14: you were hot? You you are serious because I don't
33:47
Speaker 14: want right because I touched your stuff.
33:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm already.
33:55
Speaker 6: I just started.
33:59
Speaker 14: I'm gonna tell you to treat like I'm going to
34:04
Speaker 14: tell you to a treating.
34:07
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is so debasing.
34:12
Speaker 4: I like it.
34:14
Speaker 2: Joining me a very special guest, Kirk Nurmi, the Jody
34:20
Speaker 2: Arias defense lawyer and author of a best seller, Trapped
34:24
Speaker 2: with Miss Arias. You can find it on Amazon dot com.
34:28
Speaker 2: You know, Kirk, a sign of a calculated attack on you,
34:32
Speaker 2: after you and the rest of your team had sat
34:37
Speaker 2: there and given your blood, sweat and tears during that trial,
34:41
Speaker 2: just taking so much abuse, not even just Arius, but
34:45
Speaker 2: really everyone, the whole public was against you, and to
34:50
Speaker 2: this day you believe it contributed to you get in cancer.
34:54
Speaker 2: You know, that's what malignant means, mal worry bad that
34:58
Speaker 2: that's what malignant means. Do you really believe.
35:01
Speaker 3: That, Kirk?
35:03
Speaker 7: I do. I mean, obviously there's no way to prove
35:05
Speaker 7: it scientifically, but in my heart, keep in mind, I
35:08
Speaker 7: was assigned miss Arius's case in two thousand and nine.
35:12
Speaker 7: Thus she was a part of my life against my
35:17
Speaker 7: wishes from probably twenty ten to twenty fifteen, and everything
35:23
Speaker 7: that went along with defending her, having her attack me
35:26
Speaker 7: and interviews things of that nature caused great concern to
35:32
Speaker 7: me about my safety and that of my wife. Yes,
35:35
Speaker 7: I do. Over those years, I believe that it eventually
35:37
Speaker 7: added up, and that's what turned my healthy blood cells
35:42
Speaker 7: into cancer's tumors.
35:43
Speaker 2: Her tryal turn into an international Barnum and Bailey circus
35:49
Speaker 2: where Nurmi was, against his will, elected ringmaster. I want
35:55
Speaker 2: to hear what it was like. See, I always saw
35:57
Speaker 2: her at a distance, like looking at a terre angela
36:00
Speaker 2: in a glass box. I was at a distance, of course,
36:03
Speaker 2: except for the time she shot a bird at me
36:04
Speaker 2: in court.
36:06
Speaker 3: But needless to.
36:07
Speaker 2: Say, she wasn't the first and no doubt won't be
36:09
Speaker 2: the last. But Kirk, what was it like being with her?
36:14
Speaker 2: Why was there such a contentious relationship between you two?
36:18
Speaker 7: Well, obviously a lot of that is privileged, But you know,
36:22
Speaker 7: my job, the way I look at it anyway, is
36:25
Speaker 7: a detachment. I'm not there to support what she did.
36:29
Speaker 7: I'm not there to I'm just there to help her
36:31
Speaker 7: support her story. I'm not there to be her friend,
36:34
Speaker 7: and you know that without saying too much, I think
36:39
Speaker 7: that speaks volumes.
36:40
Speaker 3: I'm trying to I'm trying to interpret that.
36:43
Speaker 2: In your book, Trapped with miss Arius, you touch on
36:48
Speaker 2: so many different topics. What do you think was the
36:52
Speaker 2: biggest bombshell in your book?
36:54
Speaker 7: I think some of the probably the biggest bombshell was
36:57
Speaker 7: talking about that attachment she had in this kind of
37:01
Speaker 7: correlates to what I said earlier about her kind of
37:04
Speaker 7: at some point in time viewing me as her boyfriend.
37:07
Speaker 7: I was the most significant man in her life, and
37:11
Speaker 7: I was there to do a job. I was not
37:12
Speaker 7: there to be her friend or support in any way
37:16
Speaker 7: other than to advocate her case in the courtroom.
37:19
Speaker 2: Alex this, what's your take on Jodi Arius?
37:22
Speaker 4: Judy Arias is a psychopath? She you know, because she
37:26
Speaker 4: spoke about you all the time. I think she even
37:28
Speaker 4: one time dragged her finger across her throat like she
37:31
Speaker 4: wanted to cut your throat. She has called me personally
37:35
Speaker 4: crazy after I wrote stories, literally facts from the prison
37:40
Speaker 4: about her, called me obsessed with her. I am not
37:43
Speaker 4: obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. We
37:45
Speaker 4: are obsessed with getting the truth and justice for people
37:48
Speaker 4: that were involved in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She
37:52
Speaker 4: has a huge ego. Even locked up behind bars, the
37:55
Speaker 4: world revolves only around Jody Arias. She was a liar,
38:00
Speaker 4: the proven liar. She was very sneaking, and she very
38:02
Speaker 4: methodically planned Travis Alexander's murder.
38:05
Speaker 2: Alexis, do you remember the day she shot a bird
38:07
Speaker 2: at me in the courtroom. That's just something I will
38:10
Speaker 2: never forget.
38:11
Speaker 4: I do remember that she turned around and pull her
38:14
Speaker 4: middle finger up on her chin. Everybody was done, the
38:16
Speaker 4: whole country was done. It was amazing. She has no
38:20
Speaker 4: sense of what is right or wrong, and she just
38:22
Speaker 4: thought she was wrongly accused of killing her boyfriend. Even
38:26
Speaker 4: though she admitted I'll.
38:27
Speaker 2: Always have our time in court together when she shot
38:30
Speaker 2: a bird at me, We'll always have Arizona, my happy
38:34
Speaker 2: memories of Jody Arius. But you know what, I have
38:38
Speaker 2: to say that I've met an American Idol, because Jodi
38:41
Speaker 2: Arias did win American idol behind bars. Take a listen,
38:46
Speaker 2: Oh Holy night, the stars a Bradley shine.
38:53
Speaker 7: It is a lie mar Dearie.
38:57
Speaker 2: Fancy Grace, Jody Arius Mary a last ditch attempt at freedom,
39:03
Speaker 2: claiming her constitutional rights have been violated. My rights were
39:10
Speaker 2: violated when I read this headline that Arius is back
39:13
Speaker 2: trying to get out. She is challenging her conviction, and
39:18
Speaker 2: she's got plenty of time to study the law. She
39:22
Speaker 2: is now a jailhouse, a librarian's aid who spends all
39:27
Speaker 2: of her time plotting and scheming ways to get out
39:31
Speaker 2: of jail. We wait as justice unfolds. Good, my friend,